[Repeater-Builder] GP300-5T Serial
Does anyone know how to change the serial number in GP300-5T? It probably has something to do with using Gput and messing with the codeplug, but how to identify the SN? Best 73
[Repeater-Builder] RC100 expert sought
I'm looking for a RC100 expert: a good friend is helping a local group of handicapped scouts (wheelchair kids, 12-18 years old) and wants to use his repeater and IRLP for the upcoming JOTA next weekend. Unfortunately, the RC100 controller lost it's configuration. The controller has 2 ports, one connected to the radio, the other to the IRLP computer (two pairs of squelch signals, two pairs of PTT lines) and hence needs to be programmed for that. The manual is quite large, notes on programming have gone missing, and time has run out to experiment and find the correct programming sequence. Anyone with an RC-100, using two ports on his repeater, who can share his programming notes with me? Thanks in advance, Geert Jan
[Repeater-Builder] Re: 6 Meter Repeater
Charles, Welcome to the world of 6 Meter repeaters. They can be a lot of fun. In Missouri you are a little better off frequency and duplexer wise due to your 1.7 MHz split between transmit and receive frequencies. For radios it depends if you are a GE or Motorola person. If you are a GE person, the Mastr II is the repeater of choice, followed by a Exec II. If you are a Motorola person, the Micor or MSR2000 are the repeaters of choice, followed by the Mitrek. For a duplexer, any good commercial duplexer rated at 1 MHz spacing should do the trick. Andrew LDF Heliax for feedline, and my favorite antenna is a pair of DB Products loops, if you have enough tower space. If not a single loop will work pretty good. I tend to shy away from fiberglass (Stationmaster style) antennas for use on 6 Meter repeaters. Your worst enemy will be anything rusty or loose on the tower. If you are on a busy site near other radios and man made noise, you most likely will not need nor want to use a preamp on the receiver, but if you are out in the middle of nowhere on a solar site with a good quiet solar controller a preamp may be of benefit. Good Luck with your project. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Charles Rader kc5...@... wrote: I am tossing around the idea of building a 6 meter repeater. This will have to be single site if I do this. What are you guys using for the repeater, duplexer, and antenna? Thanks, Charles KC5DGC
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
An additional 20dB of isolation can be realized by replacing the antenna Tee connector with a circulator. Port A to B tuned to the TX frequency, Port B to C tuned to the RX frequency. Connect TX to port A, antenna to B, Receiver to C. I'm using a set of WP-639 and with this setup I am seeing approx 102dB of rejection from the TX to RX port and 97dB the other way. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Scott Zimmerman n3...@repeater-builder.com wrote: Rich, The short answer is: You need to find a bigger duplexer. Four 8 cans would work well such as a Wacom WP-641. You could simply call and order one if Wacom was still in business. (RIP) Unfortunately Tx/Rx bought them years ago for the name and to quash competition. They can be found occasionally for around $600 or so on the used market. Other alternatives are as follows: 1) You can use two antennas and split the 639 duplexer so that 2 cans are in series between the TX and the TX antenna, and the other two are in series between the RX and the RX antenna. Terry WX3M a list member is doing this with VERY good results on one of his VHF machines. Of course this involves the expense of additional feedline and a second antenna. I think you said you had this machine on an 80' mast. 50' or so of vertical isolation coupled with the additional isolation of splitting the duplexer *may* be enough isolation to get rid of all the desense. TX goes on bottom, RX on top. 2) Buy additional Band Pass / Band Reject (BPBR) cans. You can add these additional cans between the Tx and/or Rx and the duplexer. These cans will give additional isolation. Even if you can find just Pass or Notch cavities, tune them and put them in the correct place. With both of the above options, you are looking to add to the isolation between your transmitter and receiver. You'll find you'll do best by adding cans to your transmitter that notch side-band noise at your receiver's frequency. In other words, do what you can to insure your receiver is not hearing your own transmitter's sideband noise on it's input. Pass cans tuned to the TX frequency or NOTCH cavities tuned to your *RX* frequency placed in the transmit line are your best hope. Good luck, Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
Oh drat! I thought I was getting away with something :-) I am about to start on a 6m mastr ii with 1 meg split. It is a 110 watt cont duty station I am converting to a repeater. I don't think the exciter is a pll, way too many cans on the board and small icom About how much isolation will I need there? I don't know if I have a preamp for this one or not... But if I do, I would try to run it. 73 - Original Message - From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed Sep 08 23:08:38 2010 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question The PLL exciter is why you're having such good success running a 4-cavity duplexer. If you had a PM exciter, chances are you'd be experiencing desense. The PLL exciter produces about 22 dB less noise at 600 kHz offset, reducing the noise supression requirement of the duplexer by a like amount. See: http://www.repeater-builder.com/pdf/GE_Isolation_Curves.pdf The OP also mentioned he was using a preamp - that's not helping his situation either. Even with a good receiver he's probably on the edge of crunching it with only a 4-pack. Personally, I'd never run a preamp with nothing but a 4-cavity duplexer on 2m, but if it works for you, God bless... A Q202G gives more isolation than a WP639 from what I've seen/measured, in part because the cavities are larger diameter (I think they're 7 versus 5?). --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of NORM KNAPP Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question I got a set of 4 sinclair cans, like a Q202g on a GE mastr II running 100 watts with pll exciter and GE preamp with no desense. Antenna is roughly 300' away fed with LDF7-50A. Is this a miracle or typical? - Original Message - From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed Sep 08 20:10:44 2010 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that has four 5 cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 dB spec is more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, assuming a solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 12 dB SINAD. On a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, which has six 8 cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of RichardK Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated sheilded from the transmitter preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
Hi Scott, can you give me some more information on circulators, or where can I get such information and prices. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DCFluX Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 2:03 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question An additional 20dB of isolation can be realized by replacing the antenna Tee connector with a circulator. Port A to B tuned to the TX frequency, Port B to C tuned to the RX frequency. Connect TX to port A, antenna to B, Receiver to C. I'm using a set of WP-639 and with this setup I am seeing approx 102dB of rejection from the TX to RX port and 97dB the other way. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Scott Zimmerman n3...@repeater-builder.com mailto:n3xcc%40repeater-builder.com wrote: Rich, The short answer is: You need to find a bigger duplexer. Four 8 cans would work well such as a Wacom WP-641. You could simply call and order one if Wacom was still in business. (RIP) Unfortunately Tx/Rx bought them years ago for the name and to quash competition. They can be found occasionally for around $600 or so on the used market. Other alternatives are as follows: 1) You can use two antennas and split the 639 duplexer so that 2 cans are in series between the TX and the TX antenna, and the other two are in series between the RX and the RX antenna. Terry WX3M a list member is doing this with VERY good results on one of his VHF machines. Of course this involves the expense of additional feedline and a second antenna. I think you said you had this machine on an 80' mast. 50' or so of vertical isolation coupled with the additional isolation of splitting the duplexer *may* be enough isolation to get rid of all the desense. TX goes on bottom, RX on top. 2) Buy additional Band Pass / Band Reject (BPBR) cans. You can add these additional cans between the Tx and/or Rx and the duplexer. These cans will give additional isolation. Even if you can find just Pass or Notch cavities, tune them and put them in the correct place. With both of the above options, you are looking to add to the isolation between your transmitter and receiver. You'll find you'll do best by adding cans to your transmitter that notch side-band noise at your receiver's frequency. In other words, do what you can to insure your receiver is not hearing your own transmitter's sideband noise on it's input. Pass cans tuned to the TX frequency or NOTCH cavities tuned to your *RX* frequency placed in the transmit line are your best hope. Good luck, Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible to purchase IRLP node numbers for AllStar nodes to thus enable IRLP connections on AllStar system?
whats bs ? if they want to use IRLP on there Allstar node then build the software to allow it to run with IRLP Just like the Echolink-IRLP guys did .. you cant run both at the same time but saves having more then 1 pc at the repeater site On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Kris Kirby k...@catonic.us wrote: On Wed, 8 Sep 2010, Kent Johnson wrote: Bcc to 2010 VoIP Conference List -Original Message- From: David Cameron (IRLP) [mailto:dcame...@irlp.net dcameron%40irlp.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 7:56 AM To: Kent Johnson Subject: Re: Possible to purchase IRLP node numbers for AllStar Kent, the short answer is no. I have had far too many complaints about people being brought into full duplex telephone calls and non-radio endpoints due to Allstar nodes on IRLP. The philosophy of IRLP is to keep radios on all ends of a link. Dave Cameron VE7LTD I call BS. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
[Repeater-Builder] FT100-D
Hello Do you know if the programming protocol of the FT100-D is available somewhere ? Gabe
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
4 cans will do it. Preamp may or may not be of any use depending on noise floor. Your bigger problem is all the noise that a mobile encounters these days. Sometimes it's tough to hear the repeater through all the crap that's out there. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: NORM KNAPP nkn...@twowayradio.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:04 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Oh drat! I thought I was getting away with something :-) I am about to start on a 6m mastr ii with 1 meg split. It is a 110 watt cont duty station I am converting to a repeater. I don't think the exciter is a pll, way too many cans on the board and small icom About how much isolation will I need there? I don't know if I have a preamp for this one or not... But if I do, I would try to run it. 73 - Original Message - From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed Sep 08 23:08:38 2010 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question The PLL exciter is why you're having such good success running a 4-cavity duplexer. If you had a PM exciter, chances are you'd be experiencing desense. The PLL exciter produces about 22 dB less noise at 600 kHz offset, reducing the noise supression requirement of the duplexer by a like amount. See: http://www.repeater-builder.com/pdf/GE_Isolation_Curves.pdf The OP also mentioned he was using a preamp - that's not helping his situation either. Even with a good receiver he's probably on the edge of crunching it with only a 4-pack. Personally, I'd never run a preamp with nothing but a 4-cavity duplexer on 2m, but if it works for you, God bless... A Q202G gives more isolation than a WP639 from what I've seen/measured, in part because the cavities are larger diameter (I think they're 7 versus 5?). --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of NORM KNAPP Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question I got a set of 4 sinclair cans, like a Q202g on a GE mastr II running 100 watts with pll exciter and GE preamp with no desense. Antenna is roughly 300' away fed with LDF7-50A. Is this a miracle or typical? - Original Message - From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed Sep 08 20:10:44 2010 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that has four 5 cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 dB spec is more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, assuming a solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 12 dB SINAD. On a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, which has six 8 cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of RichardK Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Possible to purchase IRLP node numbers for AllStar nodes to thus enable IRLP connections on AllStar system?
if they want to use IRLP on there Allstar node then build the software to allow it to run with IRLP Just like the Echolink-IRLP guys did .. you cant run both at the same time but saves having more then 1 pc at the repeater site Which is exactly what they did. Bottom line is if you want an IRLP node number you have to BUY an IRLP board. Don't take the bait the discussion isn't really here, Ken copied that email to a bunch of mailing lists for some reason. I have no idea where the original discussion is, this is the third list I've seen it on this A.M. 73's Skip WB6YMH
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
WACOM hasn't been in business for some years now. Good luck contacting them directly! -Original Message- From: Richard Kelly Sent: Sep 8, 2010 9:18 PM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening Eric, Maybe this is why when the trasmit power is dropped to the 20-50 watt range, the receive opens way up like it should. However, according to the spec sheets regarding the Wacom SP-639 Duplexer, it is rated for 200 watts. So, again, not sure what's going on. We will be trying other things such as adding a second ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we use now. We will also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard line. Thank you very much. We will be contacting Wacom directly tomorrow. Rich Kelly, W2RRK
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
WACOM was bought out my Telewave and there tech support staff is very helpful… http://telewave.com/ You can cross reference your older Wacom cavities with their new product line at these links: http://www.telewave.com/pricelist/wacom.html http://www.telewave.com/pricelist/duplexers.html From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of larryjspamme...@teleport.com Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 11:04 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question WACOM hasn't been in business for some years now. Good luck contacting them directly! -Original Message- From: Richard Kelly Sent: Sep 8, 2010 9:18 PM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:repeater-builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening Eric, Maybe this is why when the trasmit power is dropped to the 20-50 watt range, the receive opens way up like it should. However, according to the spec sheets regarding the Wacom SP-639 Duplexer, it is rated for 200 watts. So, again, not sure what's going on. We will be trying other things such as adding a second ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we use now. We will also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard line. Thank you very much. We will be contacting Wacom directly tomorrow. Rich Kelly, W2RRK
[Repeater-Builder] Re: 6 Meter Repeater
Re: 6 Meter Repeater Charles Rader kc5...@... wrote: I am tossing around the idea of building a 6 meter repeater. This will have to be single site if I do this. What are you guys using for the repeater, duplexer, and antenna? In addition to the other radio brands and models listed by others, the Midland Syntech Low-Band Mobiles are relatively cheap and easy to use as both mobiles and repeaters. The Syntech 1 (and 2) mobiles will connect back-to-back for a nice repeater and you can cross band two radios for a split site. There's a Yahoo Group for Midland Radios and the repeater conversion information for the Syntech 1 radios is available for download from the files section (of that Group) Syntech 1 radios reprogram with an Eprom module, which must be erased and reprogrammed with the proper equipment. I've been offering free Syntech 1 Eprom Module Programming for years, you need only pay the US Mail Postage. Have a look at this Ebay Auction: Ebay Item Number: 260661249410 Midland 70-052C Syntech 42-50Mhz 80-Ch on 6m Amateur This radio is probably ready to go for regular use or adding the COR circuit to make it also work as a repeater receiver. Prices for used Midland Radios are all over the place... watch Ebay and your local Amateur Radio Swaps/Flea Markets. I've seen used Midland Syntech 1 Radios sell for anything from $5 each up to $99 (as seen in the mentioned Ebay Auction Listing). What's a working ready to go (or a relatively easy conversion project) 6M Radio worth to you? Antennas for 6 meters are relatively easy to deal with, I've even converted CB Radio Ground Plane Antennas over, but both home-brew and surplus commercial are out there if you dig around. You'll find a number of duplexer projects on the web. Keep in mind you can start out with vertical split antenna scheme and low power to get rolling. You'd be surprised how far 2 to 5 watts can go... I ran a split antenna low power 6M Repeater using two modified antennas and 45ft separation (600KHz offset). It was a lot of great hands on learning... and in theory no one gets hurt in the process. cheers, s.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
From the Repeater-Builder website: WACOM and Remec WACOM started out as Waco Communications in Waco, Texas. At some point WACOM was bought by Remec, and in November of 2001 was sold to TX-RX. TX-RX has since been purchased by Bird Technologies Group. I've tried several times to contact them about some replacement cables, etc. for some used TX/RX VHF Repeater Duplexers, and have received no response except for one reply that said something like I've passed your request for information to our engineering group, who will be contacting you with the information you need. I never heard nything further, after several months. But several weeks ago, we were able to order a brand-new TX/RX 420-MHz 4-cavity duplexer from Bird Technologies for a 420-MHz link transceiver, although it hasn't arrived yet (it's a Special Order item). Larry -Original Message- From: Steven M Hodell Sent: Sep 9, 2010 11:10 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question WACOM was bought out my Telewave and there tech support staff is very helpful… http://telewave.com/ You can cross reference your older Wacom cavities with their new product line at these links: http://www.telewave.com/pricelist/wacom.html http://www.telewave.com/pricelist/duplexers.html From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of larryjspamme...@teleport.com Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 11:04 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question WACOM hasn't been in business for some years now. Good luck contacting them directly! -Original Message- From: Richard Kelly Sent: Sep 8, 2010 9:18 PM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening Eric, Maybe this is why when the trasmit power is dropped to the 20-50 watt range, the receive opens way up like it should. However, according to the spec sheets regarding the Wacom SP-639 Duplexer, it is rated for 200 watts. So, again, not sure what's going on. We will be trying other things such as adding a second ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we use now. We will also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard line. Thank you very much. We will be contacting Wacom directly tomorrow. Rich Kelly, W2RRK
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Possible to purchase IRLP node numbers for AllStar nodes to thus enable IRLP connections on AllStar system?
I have been an IRLP owner for I would say 10 years now .. when the node #'s were 3 numbers not 4 .. its a great service just like Echo-Link and now D-Star and others .. now to get D-Star and IRLP to play :) that would be fun ! On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Skip freebsd...@hotmail.com wrote: if they want to use IRLP on there Allstar node then build the software to allow it to run with IRLP Just like the Echolink-IRLP guys did .. you cant run both at the same time but saves having more then 1 pc at the repeater site Which is exactly what they did. Bottom line is if you want an IRLP node number you have to BUY an IRLP board. Don't take the bait the discussion isn't really here, Ken copied that email to a bunch of mailing lists for some reason. I have no idea where the original discussion is, this is the third list I've seen it on this A.M. 73's Skip WB6YMH
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 6 Meter Repeater
Not there yet. I don't even have a 6 meter rig. I am looking at getting the Yaesu FT-8900R for my first 6 meter. Any ways, I have built Master II Repeater, Micor Repeaters, and Lots of Mitrek Repeaters. So I am more familiar with Motorola than GE but I can handle both. Never built anything below 2 meter though. If I went with the Mitrek I would use two radios. Due to the isolation, use one for transmit and one for receive. My site would be a 60 foot tower on my dad's place in south central Missouri. He has one of the tallest spots in our county so it is a great location. So the tower is empty now and I can add sections to make it taller if I need to. From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of burkleoj Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 1:02 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 6 Meter Repeater Charles, Welcome to the world of 6 Meter repeaters. They can be a lot of fun. In Missouri you are a little better off frequency and duplexer wise due to your 1.7 MHz split between transmit and receive frequencies. For radios it depends if you are a GE or Motorola person. If you are a GE person, the Mastr II is the repeater of choice, followed by a Exec II. If you are a Motorola person, the Micor or MSR2000 are the repeaters of choice, followed by the Mitrek. For a duplexer, any good commercial duplexer rated at 1 MHz spacing should do the trick. Andrew LDF Heliax for feedline, and my favorite antenna is a pair of DB Products loops, if you have enough tower space. If not a single loop will work pretty good. I tend to shy away from fiberglass (Stationmaster style) antennas for use on 6 Meter repeaters. Your worst enemy will be anything rusty or loose on the tower. If you are on a busy site near other radios and man made noise, you most likely will not need nor want to use a preamp on the receiver, but if you are out in the middle of nowhere on a solar site with a good quiet solar controller a preamp may be of benefit. Good Luck with your project. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Charles Rader kc5...@... wrote: I am tossing around the idea of building a 6 meter repeater. This will have to be single site if I do this. What are you guys using for the repeater, duplexer, and antenna? Thanks, Charles KC5DGC image001.jpgimage002.jpg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions - Thanks for the answers
I agree. The users would not even notice if you cut the power in half. One 2 meter repeater we took over was running on the 10 watt exciter with the amp bypassed for I don't know how long. The caretaker before we got it bypassed the amp because of desense or intermod or self oscillation issues, we used to have some high powered VHF paging transmitters close by that were exactly 600 Khz apart and no circulator, We are now blessed because they moved to 900. It was only when were replacing the functioning repeater we discovered the amp was bypassed, He never told anyone. tom On 9/7/2010 11:50 PM, Glenn (Butch) Kanvick wrote: Hi John. Sometimes you might not want to tel the others what you do to the repeater, then they cannot complain about any adjustments that you make. Butch, KE7FEL/r On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 4:12 PM, W3ML w...@arrl.net mailto:w...@arrl.net wrote: Thanks to everyone for their comments and answers about my questions. I did turn it back so I am sure someone will say something. Once when a ham said he could not hit it, I drove over and sat outside his house with a 25 watt radio and brought it up with an S8 signal. It seems when a repeater goes up anywhere, someone will complain about something to do with it. Thanks and 73 John, W3ML
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions - Thanks for the answers
More likely he had the radio programmed wrong. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: MCH m...@nb.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions - Thanks for the answers His antenna could be in a null. It happens, as Murphy is a ham. Joe M.
[Repeater-Builder] Wildfire at the Boulder, CO repeater site
Thought the RB list might be interested in this one. Here's a photo of one of our Colorado Repeater Association repeater sites near Boulder, CO Monday afternoon around 4PM. http://www.9news.com/9slideshows/09-06-10-Boulder-fire-aerials/9703.jpg (Sorry it's small, use your browser's zoom feature to blow it up a bit. In most browsers, you can do this easily by holding down CTRL and rolling your mouse scroll wheel.) As of 7AM, both repeaters (145.46 447.975) are still on-air, running on an authorized connection to a generator on-site. Power was cut to the area quite some time ago. A number of other systems on-site are off-air for unknown reasons, either a mixture of damage and/or simply having no power. I know another person who frequents the list (Mike Mullarky) has gear up there also. Will be interesting to see what damage there is at the site when we can get up there, which really could be weeks... Map of the fire boundaries as of 12:30 yesterday afternoon: http://www.bouldercolorado.gov/files/Communication/fourmile/Four_Mile_Fire_Web_Perimeter_1230.pdf The little circle that jumped the lines (well, there really aren't well-defined fire-lines yet anyway) at the top right is the mountain the repeater system is on. Over 96 structures destroyed already, and counting... and that wasn't a complete count yesterday, according to the Sheriff's Office during a press briefing. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X n...@natetech.com
[Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK
Hi all, Does anyone have a scanned schematic and/or a pinout diagram for a Maxar 80 lowband? I moving one that is presently at 49.520 MHz, up to 50.065 MHz, but have no idea what the pins are for PTT, etc. There is no microphone or other cables that came with the radio. Thanks for any help. Jeff KP3FT
[Repeater-Builder] Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program
I got this to work before but now, no joy. I am using CE8 software, have the correct cable, and an older DOS PC. I get either a box saying there was communication problems or it quickly flashes Done! but hasn't actually read the repeater. Is there some special trick I have forgotten?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program
Read the repeater first NIMS: 100 200 300 400 700 800 Arrl Extra Class VE HAZ MAT- A O sent from my blackberry mobile device -Original Message- From: wspx472 wpxs...@gmail.com Sender: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:24:15 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program I got this to work before but now, no joy. I am using CE8 software, have the correct cable, and an older DOS PC. I get either a box saying there was communication problems or it quickly flashes Done! but hasn't actually read the repeater. Is there some special trick I have forgotten?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program
the last time that happened to me I needed a new cable. - Original Message - From: wspx472 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:24 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program I got this to work before but now, no joy. I am using CE8 software, have the correct cable, and an older DOS PC. I get either a box saying there was communication problems or it quickly flashes Done! but hasn't actually read the repeater. Is there some special trick I have forgotten?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK
I know that they are available on the Batlabs site... try http://www.batlabs.com/nosynth.html and scroll down to the Moxy section. I believe that the pinouts for the Maxar, Maxar 80, and Moxy were all the same. George, KA3HSW / WQGJ From: KP3FT kp...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 1:58:15 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK Hi all, Does anyone have a scanned schematic and/or a pinout diagram for a Maxar 80 lowband? I moving one that is presently at 49.520 MHz, up to 50.065 MHz, but have no idea what the pins are for PTT, etc. There is no microphone or other cables that came with the radio. Thanks for any help. Jeff KP3FT
Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK
Hi George, Thanks for the reply. I had downloaded the diagram for the Moxy earlier from that website, but discovered the connector is different for the Maxar 80. Not sure if the pinout #s are the same though. I could spend the money and get a manual, but that is another 20 dollars and more time, plus I don't think I need much information really, since the new target frequency is not much higher than the original frequency and may not need retuning. It's for a beacon transmitter, so RX tuning isn't necessary. Jeff KP3FT --- On Wed, 9/8/10, George Henry ka3...@att.net wrote: From: George Henry ka3...@att.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 3:40 PM I know that they are available on the Batlabs site... try http://www.batlabs.com/nosynth.html and scroll down to the Moxy section. I believe that the pinouts for the Maxar, Maxar 80, and Moxy were all the same. George, KA3HSW / WQGJ From: KP3FT kp...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 1:58:15 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK Hi all, Does anyone have a scanned schematic and/or a pinout diagram for a Maxar 80 lowband? I moving one that is presently at 49.520 MHz, up to 50.065 MHz, but have no idea what the pins are for PTT, etc. There is no microphone or other cables that came with the radio. Thanks for any help. Jeff KP3FT
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program
That's what I was trying to do. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gary W. Gibbs ke5...@... wrote: Read the repeater first NIMS: 100 200 300 400 700 800 Arrl Extra Class VE HAZ MAT- A O sent from my blackberry mobile device -Original Message- From: wspx472 wpxs...@... Sender: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:24:15 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program I got this to work before but now, no joy. I am using CE8 software, have the correct cable, and an older DOS PC. I get either a box saying there was communication problems or it quickly flashes Done! but hasn't actually read the repeater. Is there some special trick I have forgotten?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program
That has happened to me twice and I read it then it would program. Sorry it didn't help you. NIMS: 100 200 300 400 700 800 Arrl Extra Class VE HAZ MAT- A O sent from my blackberry mobile device -Original Message- From: wspx472 wpxs...@gmail.com Sender: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 20:32:58 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program That's what I was trying to do. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gary W. Gibbs ke5...@... wrote: Read the repeater first NIMS: 100 200 300 400 700 800 Arrl Extra Class VE HAZ MAT- A O sent from my blackberry mobile device -Original Message- From: wspx472 wpxs...@... Sender: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:24:15 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program I got this to work before but now, no joy. I am using CE8 software, have the correct cable, and an older DOS PC. I get either a box saying there was communication problems or it quickly flashes Done! but hasn't actually read the repeater. Is there some special trick I have forgotten?
[Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated sheilded from the transmitter preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
What repeater are you running? Is it a GE Mastr II by chance? Andy From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RichardK Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated sheilded from the transmitter preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
At 03:11 PM 9/8/2010, RichardK wrote: Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated sheilded from the transmitter preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much. ---The WP-639 is spec'd at only 80 db of isolation @ a 600 kHz split. At 100 watts, that simply isn't enough to prevent desense. You need more isolation Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
At 04:38 PM 9/8/2010, Andrew Seybold wrote: What repeater are you running? Is it a GE Mastr II by chance? ---You hinting at the issue of Mastr II amp going spurious when the power is turned down too far? Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK
Hi George, If you don't mind going to the trouble, that would be great. Just verifying if the pin number/functions are the same as the Moxy would be good because I already have the Moxy pinout. 73 Jeff KP3FT --- On Wed, 9/8/10, George Henry ka3...@att.net wrote: From: George Henry ka3...@att.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 7:45 PM I think I have a Maxar 80 manual at the office... I will check tomorrow morning. I think the only real difference in the connectors is that the Maxar 80 connector has 2 large pins at the top for power, while the Moxy has all pins the same size, and uses the first 2 in the 2nd row for power. All the metering, audio, and PTT pins are the same... I *THINK*... - Original Message - From: Jeff KP3FT kp...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK Hi George, Thanks for the reply. I had downloaded the diagram for the Moxy earlier from that website, but discovered the connector is different for the Maxar 80. Not sure if the pinout #s are the same though. I could spend the money and get a manual, but that is another 20 dollars and more time, plus I don't think I need much information really, since the new target frequency is not much higher than the original frequency and may not need retuning. It's for a beacon transmitter, so RX tuning isn't necessary. Jeff KP3FT --- On Wed, 9/8/10, George Henry ka3...@att.net wrote: From: George Henry ka3...@att.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 3:40 PM I know that they are available on the Batlabs site... try http://www.batlabs.com/nosynth.html and scroll down to the Moxy section. I believe that the pinouts for the Maxar, Maxar 80, and Moxy were all the same. George, KA3HSW / WQGJ From: KP3FT kp...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 1:58:15 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK Hi all, Does anyone have a scanned schematic and/or a pinout diagram for a Maxar 80 lowband? I moving one that is presently at 49.520 MHz, up to 50.065 MHz, but have no idea what the pins are for PTT, etc. There is no microphone or other cables that came with the radio. Thanks for any help. Jeff KP3FT
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
i'm at work right now--I will get that info tomorrow!! Rich K W2RRK x To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: aseyb...@andrewseybold.com Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 16:38:49 -0700 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question What repeater are you running? Is it a GE Mastr II by chance? Andy From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RichardK Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated sheilded from the transmitter preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
On 9/8/2010 6:11 PM, RichardK wrote: Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated sheilded from the transmitter preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much. The Wacom WP-639 is insufficient for 100 solid state watts, unless you run a GE MASTR II PLL exciter and no preamp. You will either need to replace the duplexer with another unit capable of properly isolating 100 solid state watts, add additional filters, change to a less noisy transmitter and amplifier (tubes are better - no I'm not kidding). Kevin Custer - W3KKC
[Repeater-Builder] Possible to purchase IRLP node numbers for AllStar nodes to thus enable IRLP connections on AllStar system?
Bcc to 2010 VoIP Conference List -Original Message- From: David Cameron (IRLP) [mailto:dcame...@irlp.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 7:56 AM To: Kent Johnson Subject: Re: Possible to purchase IRLP node numbers for AllStar Kent, the short answer is no. I have had far too many complaints about people being brought into full duplex telephone calls and non-radio endpoints due to Allstar nodes on IRLP. The philosophy of IRLP is to keep radios on all ends of a link. Dave Cameron VE7LTD
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that has four 5 cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 dB spec is more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, assuming a solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 12 dB SINAD. On a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, which has six 8 cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RichardK Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated sheilded from the transmitter preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
Good evening Eric, Maybe this is why when the trasmit power is dropped to the 20-50 watt range, the receive opens way up like it should. However, according to the spec sheets regarding the Wacom SP-639 Duplexer, it is rated for 200 watts. So, again, not sure what's going on. We will be trying other things such as adding a second ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we use now. We will also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard line. Thank you very much. We will be contacting Wacom directly tomorrow. Rich Kelly, W2RRK x To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: wb6...@verizon.net Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 18:10:44 -0700 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that has four 5 cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 dB spec is more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, assuming a solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 12 dB SINAD. On a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, which has six 8 cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RichardK Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated sheilded from the transmitter preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much. Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
At 06:18 PM 9/8/2010, Richard Kelly wrote: We will be trying other things such as adding a second ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we use now. We will also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard line. --That is a complete waste of time as that is not the problem. Your duplexer simply cannot provide enough isolation for the power level you're trying to run. More grounding and replacing coax with hardline (unless your coax isn't doubleshield to start with) will buy you nothing. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
Rich, Eric speaks the truth. The will HANDLE 200 watts without arcing, etc, but do not provide nearly enough isolation at 600 KHz spacing to handle 100 watts. For a 35 watt transmitter, I run cans that provide around 96 dB of isolation. the 85 dB your cans can provide just ain't gonna cut it. 73, Mike WM4B _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Kelly Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 9:19 PM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening Eric, Maybe this is why when the trasmit power is dropped to the 20-50 watt range, the receive opens way up like it should. However, according to the spec sheets regarding the Wacom SP-639 Duplexer, it is rated for 200 watts. So, again, not sure what's going on. We will be trying other things such as adding a second ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we use now. We will also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard line. Thank you very much. We will be contacting Wacom directly tomorrow. Rich Kelly, W2RRK x To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: wb6...@verizon.net Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 18:10:44 -0700 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that has four 5 cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 dB spec is more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, assuming a solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 12 dB SINAD. On a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, which has six 8 cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RichardK Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated sheilded from the transmitter preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
I'm afraid your wasting your time. According to the document for the Wacom 639 duplexer, this is what it says: MIN. FREQ. SPACING: 600 KHz POWER: TO 200 WATTS Notice that it says TO 200 watts. That would be if you were at 2MHz of spacing or more. You are only at 600KHz spacing, so you power level will be much less. I know it's not what you want to hear, but I believe you have the wrong duplexer for a 100 watt solid state repeater. 73, Joe, K1ike On 9/8/2010 9:18 PM, Richard Kelly wrote: Good evening Eric, Maybe this is why when the trasmit power is dropped to the 20-50 watt range, the receive opens way up like it should. However, according to the spec sheets regarding the Wacom SP-639 Duplexer, it is rated for 200 watts. So, again, not sure what's going on. We will be trying other things such as adding a second ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we use now. We will also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard line. Thank you very much. We will be contacting Wacom directly tomorrow. Rich Kelly, W2RRK
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
Hello again Ken, Thank you for replying with more info, we appreciate it. My email address if you want to get off this posting is w2...@arrl.net How would we go about providing MORE isolation than what we have done so far? Rich Kelly W2RRK x To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: ah...@ah6le.net Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 18:24:41 -0700 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question At 06:18 PM 9/8/2010, Richard Kelly wrote: We will be trying other things such as adding a second ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we use now. We will also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard line. --That is a complete waste of time as that is not the problem. Your duplexer simply cannot provide enough isolation for the power level you're trying to run. More grounding and replacing coax with hardline (unless your coax isn't doubleshield to start with) will buy you nothing. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em! Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
At 9/8/2010 18:24, you wrote: At 06:18 PM 9/8/2010, Richard Kelly wrote: We will be trying other things such as adding a second ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we use now. We will also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard line. --That is a complete waste of time as that is not the problem. Your duplexer simply cannot provide enough isolation for the power level you're trying to run. More grounding and replacing coax with hardline (unless your coax isn't doubleshield to start with) will buy you nothing. Replacing copper-braided coax with RG-214 or hardline is hardly a waste of time. The duplexer isolation may not be quite enough, but that can be easily remedied by adding an extra pass cavity to the TX. Just another 10 to 15 dB of TX noise suppression is likely all you need. RG-8, RG-213 or LMR-400 antenna feed, OTOH, will make any duplexer moot due to all the desense it will generate, sooner or later. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
I got a set of 4 sinclair cans, like a Q202g on a GE mastr II running 100 watts with pll exciter and GE preamp with no desense. Antenna is roughly 300' away fed with LDF7-50A. Is this a miracle or typical? - Original Message - From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed Sep 08 20:10:44 2010 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that has four 5 cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 dB spec is more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, assuming a solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 12 dB SINAD. On a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, which has six 8 cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of RichardK Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated sheilded from the transmitter preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
Rich, The short answer is: You need to find a bigger duplexer. Four 8 cans would work well such as a Wacom WP-641. You could simply call and order one if Wacom was still in business. (RIP) Unfortunately Tx/Rx bought them years ago for the name and to quash competition. They can be found occasionally for around $600 or so on the used market. Other alternatives are as follows: 1) You can use two antennas and split the 639 duplexer so that 2 cans are in series between the TX and the TX antenna, and the other two are in series between the RX and the RX antenna. Terry WX3M a list member is doing this with VERY good results on one of his VHF machines. Of course this involves the expense of additional feedline and a second antenna. I think you said you had this machine on an 80' mast. 50' or so of vertical isolation coupled with the additional isolation of splitting the duplexer *may* be enough isolation to get rid of all the desense. TX goes on bottom, RX on top. 2) Buy additional Band Pass / Band Reject (BPBR) cans. You can add these additional cans between the Tx and/or Rx and the duplexer. These cans will give additional isolation. Even if you can find just Pass or Notch cavities, tune them and put them in the correct place. With both of the above options, you are looking to add to the isolation between your transmitter and receiver. You'll find you'll do best by adding cans to your transmitter that notch side-band noise at your receiver's frequency. In other words, do what you can to insure your receiver is not hearing your own transmitter's sideband noise on it's input. Pass cans tuned to the TX frequency or NOTCH cavities tuned to your *RX* frequency placed in the transmit line are your best hope. Good luck, Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 On 9/8/2010 9:52 PM, Richard Kelly wrote: Hello again Ken, Thank you for replying with more info, we appreciate it. My email address if you want to get off this posting is w2...@arrl.net mailto:w2...@arrl.net How would we go about providing MORE isolation than what we have done so far? Rich Kelly W2RRK
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
At 08:21 PM 9/8/2010, n...@no6b.com wrote: Replacing copper-braided coax with RG-214 or hardline is hardly a waste of time. --Notice I said: More grounding and replacing coax with hardline (unless your coax isn't doubleshield to start with) will buy you nothing. I was assuming he wasn't running something along the lines of RG-8 but I did think to qualify that. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
The PLL exciter is why you're having such good success running a 4-cavity duplexer. If you had a PM exciter, chances are you'd be experiencing desense. The PLL exciter produces about 22 dB less noise at 600 kHz offset, reducing the noise supression requirement of the duplexer by a like amount. See: http://www.repeater-builder.com/pdf/GE_Isolation_Curves.pdf The OP also mentioned he was using a preamp - that's not helping his situation either. Even with a good receiver he's probably on the edge of crunching it with only a 4-pack. Personally, I'd never run a preamp with nothing but a 4-cavity duplexer on 2m, but if it works for you, God bless... A Q202G gives more isolation than a WP639 from what I've seen/measured, in part because the cavities are larger diameter (I think they're 7 versus 5?). --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of NORM KNAPP Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question I got a set of 4 sinclair cans, like a Q202g on a GE mastr II running 100 watts with pll exciter and GE preamp with no desense. Antenna is roughly 300' away fed with LDF7-50A. Is this a miracle or typical? - Original Message - From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed Sep 08 20:10:44 2010 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that has four 5 cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 dB spec is more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, assuming a solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 12 dB SINAD. On a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, which has six 8 cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of RichardK Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated sheilded from the transmitter preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
Rich, While there have been a lot of good suggestions thrown at you, you are fighting an uphill battle without knowing the spec's that were obtained when the duplexer was re-tuned the last time or finding someone with a tracking generator or network analyzer to verify the duplexer tuning. Simple method to eliminate coax and/or antenna as possible source of your desense is to tune it up with a good VHF dummy load. I make the repeater work as good as possible running into a dummy load before I connect it to an antenna. If you discover that as others have stated and I also have found out the same results, that your duplexer may not have enough isolation, I recommend adding a 12 pass cavity between the transmitter and the duplexer as the first step. If you are still a little short on isolation, then the addition of another 12 pass cavity between the receiver and the duplexer may be necessary. I always try the cavity on the transmitter side first. For this you need a true pass cavity, one that has two connectors and no notch adjustment. Motorola, GE, and DB-Products for starters have made these 12 pass cavities since the 70's. These pass cavities can often be found used for a reasonable price. 600 KHz split repeaters can be a challenge. I personally like to see a little over 100 db of isolation, especially if you have a decent preamp added to the receiver. Kevin is dead-on about how clean tubes can be compared to solid state PA's. I can run our UHF Micor tube repeaters at 150 watts with a Angle Linear preamp on the receiver, with less isolation required from the duplexer, than the same Micor repeater with a 75 watt solid state PA requires for no desense. For example, I have a Motorola Micor 2 Meter 147.250/147.850 repeater running in my garage on my test duplexer, which is a Sinclair 6 can that has about 94 db of isolation. I have the transmitter set at 60 Watts. With no preamp, I have no desense and some headroom before any desense would occur. With the factory 12 db gain Micor preamp, I have no desense, and a little headroom before desense would occur. With a Angle Linear or ARR preamp with higher gain, I have about 5 db of desense. To eliminate the desense would require another 5 db of isolation from the duplexer, which would put it at just about 100 to 102 db of required isolation from the duplexer. Good luck and let us know how you are progressing. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, RichardK shutterbug13...@... wrote: Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, white noise begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated sheilded from the transmitter preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible to purchase IRLP node numbers for AllStar nodes to thus enable IRLP connections on AllStar system?
On Wed, 8 Sep 2010, Kent Johnson wrote: Bcc to 2010 VoIP Conference List -Original Message- From: David Cameron (IRLP) [mailto:dcame...@irlp.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 7:56 AM To: Kent Johnson Subject: Re: Possible to purchase IRLP node numbers for AllStar Kent, the short answer is no. I have had far too many complaints about people being brought into full duplex telephone calls and non-radio endpoints due to Allstar nodes on IRLP. The philosophy of IRLP is to keep radios on all ends of a link. Dave Cameron VE7LTD I call BS. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
[Repeater-Builder] 6 Meter Repeater
I am tossing around the idea of building a 6 meter repeater. This will have to be single site if I do this. What are you guys using for the repeater, duplexer, and antenna? Thanks, Charles KC5DGC
[Repeater-Builder] Manual for Data Signal, Inc ID/SM-700 CW IDer/Site Monitor
I have searched the internet an cannot find a manual for this ider. Any one have a pdf copy of how to program/interface it to a repeater? Thanks, Jim, K8COP k8...@arrl.net
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
Sinad is done with a 1000 Hz tone at 3KHz deviation and requires a meter that can notch out the 1K tone and measure the remaining noise. 20dBQ is done with no modulation 2 Vac of sq noise w/ no carrier then generate unmodulated carrier till the ACVM indicates 0.2 Vac A major difference in the two usually meant an alignment issue or some sort of problem in the back end of the receiver. Is the meter 4 circuit showing that the channel element is on frequency, and have you checked the alignment of the IF? Proponets of the Sinad method claimed that their way of doing the alignment would actually improve the overall sensitivity since the radio was being tested while receiving audio. Milt N3LTQ - Original Message - From: Tim Sawyer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity I'm getting about 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. But that looks about 10 db quieting to me. What I typically do is open the squelch with no signal and set the volume to 2 Vac then crank up the signal to 0.2 vac. Isn't that 20 db, or am I missing something? -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote: spec is 0.5 uV without a preamp and 0.25 uV with a preamp, when using the 20 dB quieting method, and 0.35 and 0.175 respectively when using the 1 2 dB SINAD method
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
Yes, meter 4 shows the channel element is on frequency. If by IF alignment you mean injecting 11.7 Mhz and setting meter 4 to zero, yes I checked that. It was not far off. -- Tim :wq On Sep 7, 2010, at 9:11 AM, Milt wrote: Is the meter 4 circuit showing that the channel element is on frequency, and have you checked the alignment of the IF?
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor UHF Sensivity
Sinad is done with a 1000 Hz tone at 3KHz deviation and requires a meter that can notch out the 1K tone and measure the remaining noise. 20dBQ is done with no modulation 2 Vac of sq noise w/ no carrier then generate unmodulated carrier till the ACVM indicates 0.2 Vac Both the above are different from a signal with voice energy (speech). I have measured different receiver performance values with various test audio frequencies with varied deviation and what might be the best for real world operation could and does sometimes vary from the results you obtain using the above listed methods. Proponets of the Sinad method claimed that their way of doing the alignment would actually improve the overall sensitivity since the radio was being tested while receiving audio. Which is why I only use Sinad as one tool in the final alignment procedure. A 1KHz tone is quite different than real voice band audio. cheers, s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Moto Micor 123.0 Vibrasender
At 09:30 AM 09/07/10, you wrote: Anyone help me out with this part? Terry wx3m.te...@gmail.com What model number? There are several different physical packages. If you don't know the reed number, can you tell us what radio? Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Moto Micor 123.0 Vibrasender
It would be a KLN6210A Micor PL Encode Reed --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris wa6...@... wrote: At 09:30 AM 09/07/10, you wrote: Anyone help me out with this part? Terry wx3m.te...@... What model number? There are several different physical packages. If you don't know the reed number, can you tell us what radio? Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] To DVP or not to DVP
Hmmm... I didn't realize the DVP has a wider IF. I gather DVP requires up to 6 Khz of audio. So now I'm thinking that this receiver is not suitable for my busy hill (Santiago Peak). What do you think? -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Jeff DePolo wrote: The SP docs show it being a DVP station. DVP receivers have wider (and flatter) IF filtering than standard Micor Sensitron receivers. They need a flatter IF passband to decode DVP properly. I'm wondering if that's why the 20 dBQ reading comes out higher than normal.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions - Thanks for the answers
Thanks to everyone for their comments and answers about my questions. I did turn it back so I am sure someone will say something. Once when a ham said he could not hit it, I drove over and sat outside his house with a 25 watt radio and brought it up with an S8 signal. It seems when a repeater goes up anywhere, someone will complain about something to do with it. Thanks and 73 John, W3ML
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Moto Micor 123.0 Vibrasender
Found 3 (3A) 123.0 1 TLN 6709B 1 KLN 6209A 1 TLN 8381A If they are of any use to you. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, terry_wx3m wx3m.te...@... wrote: Anyone help me out with this part? Terry wx3m.te...@...
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Moto Micor 123.0 Vibrasender
Make that 3Z, my bad. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, spikie622 spikie...@... wrote: Found 3 (3A) 123.0 1 TLN 6709B 1 KLN 6209A 1 TLN 8381A If they are of any use to you. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, terry_wx3m wx3m.terry@ wrote: Anyone help me out with this part? Terry wx3m.terry@
RE: [Repeater-Builder] To DVP or not to DVP
If you have a nearby first adjacent (especially at 20 kHz), you might be better off with a standard receiver. Might be worth measuring it and comparing it against a standard receiver - I'd be curious to hear the results as I've never done that test myself. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 5:45 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] To DVP or not to DVP Hmmm... I didn't realize the DVP has a wider IF. I gather DVP requires up to 6 Khz of audio. So now I'm thinking that this receiver is not suitable for my busy hill (Santiago Peak). What do you think? -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Jeff DePolo wrote: The SP docs show it being a DVP station. DVP receivers have wider (and flatter) IF filtering than standard Micor Sensitron receivers. They need a flatter IF passband to decode DVP properly. I'm wondering if that's why the 20 dBQ reading comes out higher than normal.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions - Thanks for the answers
His antenna could be in a null. It happens, as Murphy is a ham. Joe M. W3ML wrote: Thanks to everyone for their comments and answers about my questions. I did turn it back so I am sure someone will say something. Once when a ham said he could not hit it, I drove over and sat outside his house with a 25 watt radio and brought it up with an S8 signal. It seems when a repeater goes up anywhere, someone will complain about something to do with it. Thanks and 73 John, W3ML Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions - Thanks for the answers
Hi John. Sometimes you might not want to tel the others what you do to the repeater, then they cannot complain about any adjustments that you make. Butch, KE7FEL/r On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 4:12 PM, W3ML w...@arrl.net wrote: Thanks to everyone for their comments and answers about my questions. I did turn it back so I am sure someone will say something. Once when a ham said he could not hit it, I drove over and sat outside his house with a 25 watt radio and brought it up with an S8 signal. It seems when a repeater goes up anywhere, someone will complain about something to do with it. Thanks and 73 John, W3ML
[Repeater-Builder] no power out of duplexer
Hi, First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and learning as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been involved with a VHF repeater system. Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60 watts out of Duplexer. When I turn the power up to 100 out of radio and 80 out of duplexer it seemed to be working okay. But, now a few hours later there is no power coming out of duplexer at all. Radio still shows power coming out. Nothing was touch on the duplexer. Any ideas? 73 John, W3ML
Re: [Repeater-Builder] no power out of duplexer
Sounds like a bad cable/connector. Are there any adaptors or elbows? They could be suspect. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: W3ML w...@arrl.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:37 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] no power out of duplexer Hi, First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and learning as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been involved with a VHF repeater system. Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60 watts out of Duplexer. When I turn the power up to 100 out of radio and 80 out of duplexer it seemed to be working okay. But, now a few hours later there is no power coming out of duplexer at all. Radio still shows power coming out. Nothing was touch on the duplexer. Any ideas? 73 John, W3ML
Re: [Repeater-Builder] no power out of duplexer
What make and model is the duplexer? I know of one instance that the loop inside the duplexer can come disconnected due to a bad solder joint, but can't remember what one it was. A search on this list should find it, as it was discussed recently. The first thing would be to check all connections for tightness. Do not over-tighten the connections! Just make sure that they are snug. If your knuckles are turning white, your tightening too much. N connectors need to be snug, UHF connectors need to be a little tighter, but not cranked down tight, but not until they break. What you can do is take the connecting cables off the transmit side cans and test the first one for power out. Then connect the next can in series and see if there is output from that can. This process should isolate the bad can(s). Disconnect the receiver while doing this just to be safe. MARK all the cables as to where they came from. Do not mix them up. It may be a bad cable, so if you find a problem make sure that it is not the interconnecting cable. If all the cans and cables test OK, their may be a problem on the receive side of the duplexer. Keep it simple, don't fool with the cans unless you prove that one is bad. This process is to eliminate the obvious before you go tinkering with the duplexer. Check the tightness of connections first, cables second, and lastly the cans. The process above will help you isolate the bad can so you hopefully only have to tinker with one can. The real fix would involve some test equipment. What do you have available? Service monitor, tracking generator? Others will probably have some good suggestions, these ideas are just off the top of my head. On 9/6/2010 9:37 AM, W3ML wrote: Hi, First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and learning as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been involved with a VHF repeater system. Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60 watts out of Duplexer. When I turn the power up to 100 out of radio and 80 out of duplexer it seemed to be working okay. But, now a few hours later there is no power coming out of duplexer at all. Radio still shows power coming out. Nothing was touch on the duplexer. Any ideas? 73 John, W3ML
[Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
Thanks Joe. We did most of those and then found the problem. The T-connector center pin had broken off when we apparently hooked up some test equipment and did not notice it. I still have one question though. Is it normal to have 100 watts coming out of radio and only 70 watts coming out of duplexer? Wacom 6 can type duplexer. That seems to be quite a loss. Again I appreciate all the help. 73 John, W3ML --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joe k1ike_m...@... wrote: What make and model is the duplexer? I know of one instance that the loop inside the duplexer can come disconnected due to a bad solder joint, but can't remember what one it was. A search on this list should find it, as it was discussed recently. The first thing would be to check all connections for tightness. Do not over-tighten the connections! Just make sure that they are snug. If your knuckles are turning white, your tightening too much. N connectors need to be snug, UHF connectors need to be a little tighter, but not cranked down tight, but not until they break. What you can do is take the connecting cables off the transmit side cans and test the first one for power out. Then connect the next can in series and see if there is output from that can. This process should isolate the bad can(s). Disconnect the receiver while doing this just to be safe. MARK all the cables as to where they came from. Do not mix them up. It may be a bad cable, so if you find a problem make sure that it is not the interconnecting cable. If all the cans and cables test OK, their may be a problem on the receive side of the duplexer. Keep it simple, don't fool with the cans unless you prove that one is bad. This process is to eliminate the obvious before you go tinkering with the duplexer. Check the tightness of connections first, cables second, and lastly the cans. The process above will help you isolate the bad can so you hopefully only have to tinker with one can. The real fix would involve some test equipment. What do you have available? Service monitor, tracking generator? Others will probably have some good suggestions, these ideas are just off the top of my head. On 9/6/2010 9:37 AM, W3ML wrote: Hi, First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and learning as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been involved with a VHF repeater system. Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60 watts out of Duplexer. When I turn the power up to 100 out of radio and 80 out of duplexer it seemed to be working okay. But, now a few hours later there is no power coming out of duplexer at all. Radio still shows power coming out. Nothing was touch on the duplexer. Any ideas? 73 John, W3ML
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
WACOM specs their 6 cavity pass-reject cans at 2.2dB insertion loss. 2.0 dB down from 100 watts is 63 watts, so you're doing good. Remember, 3dB is going to take your power down 50%. 73, Mike WM4B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of W3ML Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 10:55 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions Thanks Joe. We did most of those and then found the problem. The T-connector center pin had broken off when we apparently hooked up some test equipment and did not notice it. I still have one question though. Is it normal to have 100 watts coming out of radio and only 70 watts coming out of duplexer? Wacom 6 can type duplexer. That seems to be quite a loss. Again I appreciate all the help. 73 John, W3ML --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Joe k1ike_m...@... wrote: What make and model is the duplexer? I know of one instance that the loop inside the duplexer can come disconnected due to a bad solder joint, but can't remember what one it was. A search on this list should find it, as it was discussed recently. The first thing would be to check all connections for tightness. Do not over-tighten the connections! Just make sure that they are snug. If your knuckles are turning white, your tightening too much. N connectors need to be snug, UHF connectors need to be a little tighter, but not cranked down tight, but not until they break. What you can do is take the connecting cables off the transmit side cans and test the first one for power out. Then connect the next can in series and see if there is output from that can. This process should isolate the bad can(s). Disconnect the receiver while doing this just to be safe. MARK all the cables as to where they came from. Do not mix them up. It may be a bad cable, so if you find a problem make sure that it is not the interconnecting cable. If all the cans and cables test OK, their may be a problem on the receive side of the duplexer. Keep it simple, don't fool with the cans unless you prove that one is bad. This process is to eliminate the obvious before you go tinkering with the duplexer. Check the tightness of connections first, cables second, and lastly the cans. The process above will help you isolate the bad can so you hopefully only have to tinker with one can. The real fix would involve some test equipment. What do you have available? Service monitor, tracking generator? Others will probably have some good suggestions, these ideas are just off the top of my head. On 9/6/2010 9:37 AM, W3ML wrote: Hi, First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and learning as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been involved with a VHF repeater system. Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60 watts out of Duplexer. When I turn the power up to 100 out of radio and 80 out of duplexer it seemed to be working okay. But, now a few hours later there is no power coming out of duplexer at all. Radio still shows power coming out. Nothing was touch on the duplexer. Any ideas? 73 John, W3ML
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
I agree with Mike. 100 watts in, 70 watts out is about 1.5dB loss. That looks very good for a Wacom. What is the model of your duplexer? The WP-643 had a single bandpass can on each side that might change the estimated loss. Did you happen to look at the reflected power when you took the forward power readings? If you had reflected power, it could throw the forward reading off. What kind of a watt meter did you use? As long as you have no desense, I'd leave it alone. 73, Joe, K1ike On 9/6/2010 11:28 AM, Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote: WACOM specs their 6 cavity pass-reject cans at 2.2dB insertion loss. 2.0 dB down from 100 watts is 63 watts, so you’re doing good. Remember, 3dB is going to take your power down 50%. 73, Mike WM4B *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *W3ML *Sent:* Monday, September 06, 2010 10:55 AM *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions Thanks Joe. We did most of those and then found the problem. The T-connector center pin had broken off when we apparently hooked up some test equipment and did not notice it. I still have one question though. Is it normal to have 100 watts coming out of radio and only 70 watts coming out of duplexer? Wacom 6 can type duplexer. That seems to be quite a loss. Again I appreciate all the help. 73 John, W3ML Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Unidentified part in msf5000 vhf station
Its size and location in the RF path suggests that it is an optional preselector. It should have five adjustment screws with locknuts, and bear the designation TFD1011 or TFD1012. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wb5oxq Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Unidentified part in msf5000 vhf station I just aquired a second msf5000 to make a 2 meter repeater our of and it has a part not present in the first station. I suspect it could be a rx preamp due to the fact it has coax input and output and it is wired in series between the duplexer rx port and the receiver rf input. It appears to be an aluminum block rack mounted just below the power supply and is about 1.5 thick and about 8 or 9 inches wide. I did not see any electrical connections so if it is a preamp it must get power from the coax into the receiver. I am not familiar with this device. My other station did not have this part. Perhapps it is sopme kind of filter? Both stations are the digital capable models which I program with the rib and old laptop. Any ideas please! Pictures on request if needed.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
Depending on the frequency seperation it sounds like it is in the ball park. Maybe even not enough loss. Quick in the head math short cut is that 1 db is about 25%. That would give you 75 watts out of the duplexer for 100 watts in. If it is 3 db, that is half power or 50 watts out for 100 in. Any loss between the two numbers could be correct. Again depending on the frequency seperation and isolation in DB, you can look for 1/2 to 1 DB per cavity. That is for each side. So 3 cans per side would be from 1.5 db to 3 db loss in the transmitt side and the same for the receive side. - Original Message From: W3ML w...@arrl.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, September 6, 2010 10:54:37 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions Thanks Joe. We did most of those and then found the problem. The T-connector center pin had broken off when we apparently hooked up some test equipment and did not notice it. I still have one question though. Is it normal to have 100 watts coming out of radio and only 70 watts coming out of duplexer? Wacom 6 can type duplexer. That seems to be quite a loss. Again I appreciate all the help. 73 John, W3ML
[Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
I have a Micor base that was manufactured in the ham band. Model is C64RXB3196A-SP71. The receiver model number is TRE1241A-SP10 (420-450 Mhz). It came with 4 channels all tuned up and on frequency in the ham band. But the receiver is sensitivity is .72 mv for 20 db quieting on the best channel and .9 on the worst. I went through the alignment procedure and could not make any improvement. Obviously this is not meeting the .5 spec and I was expecting more like .3 or so. So my questions is what should I do to troubleshoot this? Is there some common Micor receiver failure parts or areas that I should be looking into? -- Tim :wq
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Unidentified part in msf5000 vhf station
My guess is that it is the harmonic filter, with the left coax leading to the pa or circulator if it has one... . bill w4oo . . --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wb5oxq wb5...@... wrote: I just aquired a second msf5000 to make a 2 meter repeater our of and it has a part not present in the first station. I suspect it could be a rx preamp due to the fact it has coax input and output and it is wired in series between the duplexer rx port and the receiver rf input. It appears to be an aluminum block rack mounted just below the power supply and is about 1.5 thick and about 8 or 9 inches wide. I did not see any electrical connections so if it is a preamp it must get power from the coax into the receiver. I am not familiar with this device. My other station did not have this part. Perhapps it is sopme kind of filter? Both stations are the digital capable models which I program with the rib and old laptop. Any ideas please! Pictures on request if needed.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
Tim, Please confirm that you measured the sensitivity as 0.72 millivolts, or 720 uV- about 2400 times worse than the 0.3 uV you expect. Such a huge disparity points to a failed transistor or a shorted capacitor on the receive board. Perhaps your next step is to perform voltage checks and compare your readings to those in the manual. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 10:11 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity I have a Micor base that was manufactured in the ham band. Model is C64RXB3196A-SP71. The receiver model number is TRE1241A-SP10 (420-450 Mhz). It came with 4 channels all tuned up and on frequency in the ham band. But the receiver is sensitivity is .72 mv for 20 db quieting on the best channel and .9 on the worst. I went through the alignment procedure and could not make any improvement. Obviously this is not meeting the .5 spec and I was expecting more like .3 or so. So my questions is what should I do to troubleshoot this? Is there some common Micor receiver failure parts or areas that I should be looking into? -- Tim :wq
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
Eric, It's 0.72 microvolts. Not totally dead, just a bit numb. -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:24 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote: Please confirm that you measured the sensitivity as 0.72 millivolts, or 720 uV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
There are shield covers on the RX board that need to be pulled off and have the ground pins cleaned. I watched a Motorola service shop do that and the sensitivity came back. He turned to me and said you'd have been forever figuring that one out. Don't ask me why, but I saw it work. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Tim Sawyer tisaw...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 1:11 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity I have a Micor base that was manufactured in the ham band. Model is C64RXB3196A-SP71. The receiver model number is TRE1241A-SP10 (420-450 Mhz). It came with 4 channels all tuned up and on frequency in the ham band. But the receiver is sensitivity is .72 mv for 20 db quieting on the best channel and .9 on the worst. I went through the alignment procedure and could not make any improvement. Obviously this is not meeting the .5 spec and I was expecting more like .3 or so. So my questions is what should I do to troubleshoot this? Is there some common Micor receiver failure parts or areas that I should be looking into? -- Tim :wq
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
Ah, what a difference a factor of 1,000 makes! Okay, the manual spec is 0.5 uV without a preamp and 0.25 uV with a preamp, when using the 20 dB quieting method, and 0.35 and 0.175 respectively when using the 12 dB SINAD method. Try connecting your service monitor directly to the input jack on the preselector and repeat the sensitivity measurement. If it is greatly improved, start looking at cables and connectors. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 10:29 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity Eric, It's 0.72 microvolts. Not totally dead, just a bit numb. -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:24 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote: Please confirm that you measured the sensitivity as 0.72 millivolts, or 720 uV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
Hello Tim. I think the specs on your Micor are 402-430, But I could be wrong. What freq was it crystalled on before you retuned it? Also what is the frequency you tuned it on now? That gives us better information as to where it was and where you tuned it to. Butch, KE7FEL/r On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Tim Sawyer tisaw...@gmail.com wrote: I have a Micor base that was manufactured in the ham band. Model is C64RXB3196A-SP71. The receiver model number is TRE1241A-SP10 (420-450 Mhz). It came with 4 channels all tuned up and on frequency in the ham band. But the receiver is sensitivity is .72 mv for 20 db quieting on the best channel and .9 on the worst. I went through the alignment procedure and could not make any improvement. Obviously this is not meeting the .5 spec and I was expecting more like .3 or so. So my questions is what should I do to troubleshoot this? Is there some common Micor receiver failure parts or areas that I should be looking into? -- Tim :wq
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
Stuff to try: 1. Verify that the LO multiplier chain is peaked correctly. I've seen a bunch of these that exhibit this symptom that had mistuned LO chains. 2. Feed the test signal into the RX directly. If you see good sensitivity, you know where to looks ;-) 3. Take each of the bottom cover shields off in order and clean the tabs. Put them back on and run a small screwdriver tip every 1/8 or so shorting the can to its ground. If you see an improvement get out an iron and solder it. I don't like doing this, but I haven't found an alternative that works. On 9/6/2010 12:11 PM, Tim Sawyer wrote: I have a Micor base that was manufactured in the ham band. Model is C64RXB3196A-SP71. The receiver model number is TRE1241A-SP10 (420-450 Mhz). It came with 4 channels all tuned up and on frequency in the ham band. But the receiver is sensitivity is .72 mv for 20 db quieting on the best channel and .9 on the worst. I went through the alignment procedure and could not make any improvement. Obviously this is not meeting the .5 spec and I was expecting more like .3 or so. So my questions is what should I do to troubleshoot this? Is there some common Micor receiver failure parts or areas that I should be looking into? -- Tim -- mailto:o...@ozindfw.net Oz POB 93167 Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] SIMPLEX software
Yes, I have used it when I need a simplex station John, K4AG gabriel wrote: Hello Just for stats, does anyone use the SIMPLEX software by F6DQM to manage its repeater ? Gab
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
I'm getting about 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. But that looks about 10 db quieting to me. What I typically do is open the squelch with no signal and set the volume to 2 Vac then crank up the signal to 0.2 vac. Isn't that 20 db, or am I missing something? -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote: spec is 0.5 uV without a preamp and 0.25 uV with a preamp, when using the 20 dB quieting method, and 0.35 and 0.175 respectively when using the 12 dB SINAD method
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
2V AC down to .2 v. AC is 20 DB quieting John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: Tim Sawyer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity I'm getting about 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. But that looks about 10 db quieting to me. What I typically do is open the squelch with no signal and set the volume to 2 Vac then crank up the signal to 0.2 vac. Isn't that 20 db, or am I missing something? -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote: spec is 0.5 uV without a preamp and 0.25 uV with a preamp, when using the 20 dB quieting method, and 0.35 and 0.175 respectively when using the 12 dB SINAD method
[Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
Hi Joe, I have a CN-801 Daiwa and it showed 0.1 on reflected side. So that is not too bad. Wacom model is 639 -6 We have no desense and a range of about 30 miles at best in all directions. We were not wanting a large area of coverage, as it is used for the county emergency RACES/ARES service. Thanks again for the information. 73 John, W3ML --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joe k1ike_m...@... wrote: I agree with Mike. 100 watts in, 70 watts out is about 1.5dB loss. That looks very good for a Wacom. What is the model of your duplexer? The WP-643 had a single bandpass can on each side that might change the estimated loss. Did you happen to look at the reflected power when you took the forward power readings? If you had reflected power, it could throw the forward reading off. What kind of a watt meter did you use? As long as you have no desense, I'd leave it alone. 73, Joe, K1ike On 9/6/2010 11:28 AM, Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote: WACOM specs their 6 cavity pass-reject cans at 2.2dB insertion loss. 2.0 dB down from 100 watts is 63 watts, so you're doing good. Remember, 3dB is going to take your power down 50%. 73, Mike WM4B *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *W3ML *Sent:* Monday, September 06, 2010 10:55 AM *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions Thanks Joe. We did most of those and then found the problem. The T-connector center pin had broken off when we apparently hooked up some test equipment and did not notice it. I still have one question though. Is it normal to have 100 watts coming out of radio and only 70 watts coming out of duplexer? Wacom 6 can type duplexer. That seems to be quite a loss. Again I appreciate all the help. 73 John, W3ML
[Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
Mike, Joe and Ralph, Thank you all for the great information about the power loss. As I stated earlier, I am still earning about this repeater stuff. In the past year and half I have learned more about repeaters than I knew in the first 29 years of being a ham. It is great! I believe one should never quit learning about this hobby. I have stored your answers away in the repeater folder for future reference and really do appreciate you taking the time to explain it all to me and maybe others that had questions as well. 73 John, W3ML --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Besemer \(WM4B\) mwbese...@... wrote: WACOM specs their 6 cavity pass-reject cans at 2.2dB insertion loss. 2.0 dB down from 100 watts is 63 watts, so you're doing good. Remember, 3dB is going to take your power down 50%. 73, Mike WM4B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of W3ML Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 10:55 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions Thanks Joe. We did most of those and then found the problem. The T-connector center pin had broken off when we apparently hooked up some test equipment and did not notice it. I still have one question though. Is it normal to have 100 watts coming out of radio and only 70 watts coming out of duplexer? Wacom 6 can type duplexer. That seems to be quite a loss. Again I appreciate all the help. 73 John, W3ML --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Joe k1ike_mail@ wrote: What make and model is the duplexer? I know of one instance that the loop inside the duplexer can come disconnected due to a bad solder joint, but can't remember what one it was. A search on this list should find it, as it was discussed recently. The first thing would be to check all connections for tightness. Do not over-tighten the connections! Just make sure that they are snug. If your knuckles are turning white, your tightening too much. N connectors need to be snug, UHF connectors need to be a little tighter, but not cranked down tight, but not until they break. What you can do is take the connecting cables off the transmit side cans and test the first one for power out. Then connect the next can in series and see if there is output from that can. This process should isolate the bad can(s). Disconnect the receiver while doing this just to be safe. MARK all the cables as to where they came from. Do not mix them up. It may be a bad cable, so if you find a problem make sure that it is not the interconnecting cable. If all the cans and cables test OK, their may be a problem on the receive side of the duplexer. Keep it simple, don't fool with the cans unless you prove that one is bad. This process is to eliminate the obvious before you go tinkering with the duplexer. Check the tightness of connections first, cables second, and lastly the cans. The process above will help you isolate the bad can so you hopefully only have to tinker with one can. The real fix would involve some test equipment. What do you have available? Service monitor, tracking generator? Others will probably have some good suggestions, these ideas are just off the top of my head. On 9/6/2010 9:37 AM, W3ML wrote: Hi, First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and learning as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been involved with a VHF repeater system. Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60 watts out of Duplexer. When I turn the power up to 100 out of radio and 80 out of duplexer it seemed to be working okay. But, now a few hours later there is no power coming out of duplexer at all. Radio still shows power coming out. Nothing was touch on the duplexer. Any ideas? 73 John, W3ML
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
Yea, I think 20 db quieting is more like 0.175 uV 12 db SINAD. -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 12:52 PM, John J. Riddell wrote: 2V AC down to .2 v. AC is 20 DB quieting
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
In that spirit. Going from 80 to 100 watts is 0.97 db better. That's probably not an improvement your users will notice. When one considers what a pain it is when the PA dies, it might not be worth it. Just my 2 cents but I think you're better off leaving the amp at 80 watts. -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 1:11 PM, W3ML wrote: It is great! I believe one should never quit learning about this hobby.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
Okay Tim. That sounds like a wise idea especially since we have an old GE Mastr II and may not take much use at full power out. Thanks and 73 John, W3ML --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Tim Sawyer tisaw...@... wrote: In that spirit. Going from 80 to 100 watts is 0.97 db better. That's probably not an improvement your users will notice. When one considers what a pain it is when the PA dies, it might not be worth it. Just my 2 cents but I think you're better off leaving the amp at 80 watts. -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 1:11 PM, W3ML wrote: It is great! I believe one should never quit learning about this hobby.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
John, here's a more subtle lesson on repeaters, and it has nothing to do with hardware... If you dial the power back 1 dB, your PA may be much happier. If you simultaneously change the courtesy beep to be 10% faster, users will ask you what's changed on the repeater. Tell them you've increased the transmitter output 3 dB, and they'll claim to have noticed the improved coverage. Tell him guys...am I wrong? ;^) 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Tim Sawyer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions In that spirit. Going from 80 to 100 watts is 0.97 db better. That's probably not an improvement your users will notice. When one considers what a pain it is when the PA dies, it might not be worth it. Just my 2 cents but I think you're better off leaving the amp at 80 watts.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
Hi, 70 watts out sounds OK. Duplexer's usually have about a 1 - 2db loss depends how they are set up, size of cavities etc and the model type. Duplexer loss = 10log(Pin/Pout) Duplexer Loss = 10Log(70/100)= -1.54dB. Peter On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:54 AM, W3ML w...@arrl.net wrote: Thanks Joe. We did most of those and then found the problem. The T-connector center pin had broken off when we apparently hooked up some test equipment and did not notice it. I still have one question though. Is it normal to have 100 watts coming out of radio and only 70 watts coming out of duplexer? Wacom 6 can type duplexer. That seems to be quite a loss. Again I appreciate all the help. 73 John, W3ML --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com, Joe k1ike_m...@... wrote: What make and model is the duplexer? I know of one instance that the loop inside the duplexer can come disconnected due to a bad solder joint, but can't remember what one it was. A search on this list should find it, as it was discussed recently. The first thing would be to check all connections for tightness. Do not over-tighten the connections! Just make sure that they are snug. If your knuckles are turning white, your tightening too much. N connectors need to be snug, UHF connectors need to be a little tighter, but not cranked down tight, but not until they break. What you can do is take the connecting cables off the transmit side cans and test the first one for power out. Then connect the next can in series and see if there is output from that can. This process should isolate the bad can(s). Disconnect the receiver while doing this just to be safe. MARK all the cables as to where they came from. Do not mix them up. It may be a bad cable, so if you find a problem make sure that it is not the interconnecting cable. If all the cans and cables test OK, their may be a problem on the receive side of the duplexer. Keep it simple, don't fool with the cans unless you prove that one is bad. This process is to eliminate the obvious before you go tinkering with the duplexer. Check the tightness of connections first, cables second, and lastly the cans. The process above will help you isolate the bad can so you hopefully only have to tinker with one can. The real fix would involve some test equipment. What do you have available? Service monitor, tracking generator? Others will probably have some good suggestions, these ideas are just off the top of my head. On 9/6/2010 9:37 AM, W3ML wrote: Hi, First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and learning as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been involved with a VHF repeater system. Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60 watts out of Duplexer. When I turn the power up to 100 out of radio and 80 out of duplexer it seemed to be working okay. But, now a few hours later there is no power coming out of duplexer at all. Radio still shows power coming out. Nothing was touch on the duplexer. Any ideas? 73 John, W3ML
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
The Micor book says less than 0.5 uV for 20db quieting or 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. So the two are in fact equivalent. I get better than 0.35 for 12 db SINAD but I don't measure 0.5 for 20 db quieting. I must be doing something wrong. -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 12:52 PM, John J. Riddell wrote: 2V AC down to .2 v. AC is 20 DB quieting John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: Tim Sawyer To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity I'm getting about 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. But that looks about 10 db quieting to me. What I typically do is open the squelch with no signal and set the volume to 2 Vac then crank up the signal to 0.2 vac. Isn't that 20 db, or am I missing something? -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote: spec is 0.5 uV without a preamp and 0.25 uV with a preamp, when using the 20 dB quieting method, and 0.35 and 0.175 respectively when using the 12 dB SINAD method
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
Paul speaks the truth. I had one fellow who always insisted something was wrong with the repeater when the foliage came on the trees every spring. I tried to explain to him that the leaves and humidity were attenuating the signal and that it was just a fact of life for the fringe-area users. Nonetheless, he insisted that the power was down or the VSWR was up. After arguing (nicely) with this fellow for a couple of weeks, I programmed a voice message on the repeater that I could call at-will and then told him I'd installed a wattmeter at the site that interfaced with the controller. I then demonstrated it to him. The message read The forward power is 35 watts and the reflected power is 0.7 watts. With this new 'feature' installed, he turned his attention to improving his antenna system. 73, Mike WM4B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Plack Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 5:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions John, here's a more subtle lesson on repeaters, and it has nothing to do with hardware... If you dial the power back 1 dB, your PA may be much happier. If you simultaneously change the courtesy beep to be 10% faster, users will ask you what's changed on the repeater. Tell them you've increased the transmitter output 3 dB, and they'll claim to have noticed the improved coverage. Tell him guys...am I wrong? ;^) 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Tim Sawyer mailto:tisaw...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions In that spirit. Going from 80 to 100 watts is 0.97 db better. That's probably not an improvement your users will notice. When one considers what a pain it is when the PA dies, it might not be worth it. Just my 2 cents but I think you're better off leaving the amp at 80 watts.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
Not all voltmeters behave the same with complex AC waveforms (such as noise). Some of my Flukes are inaccurate at higher AC frequencies (like above a few hundred Hz) - and they're spec'ed that way. What kind of meter are you using, and where are you measuring (speaker terminals is where you should be measuring from)? Do you know what, exactly, the SP features/modifications are on your SP Micor? --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:07 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity The Micor book says less than 0.5 uV for 20db quieting or 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. So the two are in fact equivalent. I get better than 0.35 for 12 db SINAD but I don't measure 0.5 for 20 db quieting. I must be doing something wrong. -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 12:52 PM, John J. Riddell wrote: 2V AC down to .2 v. AC is 20 DB quieting John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: Tim Sawyer mailto:tisaw...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity I'm getting about 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. But that looks about 10 db quieting to me. What I typically do is open the squelch with no signal and set the volume to 2 Vac then crank up the signal to 0.2 vac. Isn't that 20 db, or am I missing something? -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote: spec is 0.5 uV without a preamp and 0.25 uV with a preamp, when using the 20 dB quieting method, and 0.35 and 0.175 respectively when using the 12 dB SINAD method
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
I agree. Put it back to the original output. I always like to turn my stuff back at least 10%. Turn the beep tone up in volume, tell them you increased the power. see what they say. 73, Joe, K1ike On 9/6/2010 5:04 PM, Paul Plack wrote: John, here's a more subtle lesson on repeaters, and it has nothing to do with hardware... If you dial the power back 1 dB, your PA may be much happier. If you simultaneously change the courtesy beep to be 10% faster, users will ask you what's changed on the repeater. Tell them you've increased the transmitter output 3 dB, and they'll claim to have noticed the improved coverage. Tell him guys...am I wrong? ;^) 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - *From:* Tim Sawyer mailto:tisaw...@gmail.com *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, September 06, 2010 2:43 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
Or speed up the CWID one or two WPM, or change to a slightly higher tone frequency. Top 40 stations sometimes still do this trick (pitching up their CD players or automation system playback speed maybe 1%) - some PD's are convinced that it improves ratings for one reason or another... --- Jeff -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions I agree. Put it back to the original output. I always like to turn my stuff back at least 10%. Turn the beep tone up in volume, tell them you increased the power. see what they say. 73, Joe, K1ike On 9/6/2010 5:04 PM, Paul Plack wrote: John, here's a more subtle lesson on repeaters, and it has nothing to do with hardware... If you dial the power back 1 dB, your PA may be much happier. If you simultaneously change the courtesy beep to be 10% faster, users will ask you what's changed on the repeater. Tell them you've increased the transmitter output 3 dB, and they'll claim to have noticed the improved coverage. Tell him guys...am I wrong? ;^) 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Tim Sawyer mailto:tisaw...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
I have tried with 3 volt meters and 2 SINAD meters: a Fluke 77, a Sinadder 3 (SINAD AC voltmeter) and a HP8924c. Pretty much same results with all. That is 20 db quieting around 0.7 uV, SINAD around 0.35. So what's the recommended meter? Should I trust the SINAD reading and chock the quieting reading up some unknown meter problems? Yes, measuring on the speaker terminals with no speaker. The Sinadder and 8924c have internal speakers but I suspect they are not loading the receiver. Yes. The Micor came with a 3 page document detailing SP71 modifications. Would you like me to scan and email you a copy? -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 3:30 PM, Jeff DePolo wrote: Not all voltmeters behave the same with complex AC waveforms (such as noise). Some of my Flukes are inaccurate at higher AC frequencies (like above a few hundred Hz) - and they're spec'ed that way. What kind of meter are you using, and where are you measuring (speaker terminals is where you should be measuring from)? Do you know what, exactly, the SP features/modifications are on your SP Micor? --- Jeff WN3A
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
I have tried with 3 volt meters and 2 SINAD meters: a Fluke 77, a Sinadder 3 (SINAD AC voltmeter) and a HP8924c. Pretty much same results with all. That is 20 db quieting around 0.7 uV, SINAD around 0.35. So what's the recommended meter? Should I trust the SINAD reading and chock the quieting reading up some unknown meter problems? Very odd. I'd probably want to load the speaker PA; I usually just leave the speaker connected or use a load box. Yes. The Micor came with a 3 page document detailing SP71 modifications. Would you like me to scan and email you a copy? I'd be curious to see if any of the mods would affect AF response, IF bandwidth, or anything else that could be throwing off your numbers. IIRC, older Micor manuals didn't even have a 12 dB SINAD sensitivity spec, only a 20 dBQ spec/test procedure. That's what I remember always using as a pass/fail reference. Of course, SINAD is a better test, but you should expect an in-band Micor to still meet the quieting spec. --- Jeff WN3A
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
Readers interested in this thread may find the following articles to be relevant: www.repeater-builder.com/measuring-sensitivity/measuring-sensitivity.html www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/receiversensitivity.html 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 4:00 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity I have tried with 3 volt meters and 2 SINAD meters: a Fluke 77, a Sinadder 3 (SINAD AC voltmeter) and a HP8924c. Pretty much same results with all. That is 20 db quieting around 0.7 uV, SINAD around 0.35. So what's the recommended meter? Should I trust the SINAD reading and chock the quieting reading up some unknown meter problems? Yes, measuring on the speaker terminals with no speaker. The Sinadder and 8924c have internal speakers but I suspect they are not loading the receiver. Yes. The Micor came with a 3 page document detailing SP71 modifications. Would you like me to scan and email you a copy? -- Tim :wq On Sep 6, 2010, at 3:30 PM, Jeff DePolo wrote: Not all voltmeters behave the same with complex AC waveforms (such as noise). Some of my Flukes are inaccurate at higher AC frequencies (like above a few hundred Hz) - and they're spec'ed that way. What kind of meter are you using, and where are you measuring (speaker terminals is where you should be measuring from)? Do you know what, exactly, the SP features/modifications are on your SP Micor? --- Jeff WN3A
[Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1
Anyone have one of the above they wish to part with? We have reason to suspect the PA in our repeater. It has developed various intermittent behaviors (dropping carrier, distorted audio, varying output, etc.) .. I believe this to be the 60 watt PA for the GE Mastr II Exec II mobile radio conversion. If I have the wrong board number, please advise ... Larry Wagoner - N5WLW PRCARC Training Officer PIC - MS SECT ARRL
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1
I believe you are talking about an Exec II. Several places to check before replacing the PA. A common problem is the jumper between the exciter and the PA. The RCA connectors sometimes go intermittent. Also, if the TR relay hasn't been jumpered, it could have gone intermittent. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Wagoner larrywago...@bellsouth.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 8:27 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1 Anyone have one of the above they wish to part with? We have reason to suspect the PA in our repeater. It has developed various intermittent behaviors (dropping carrier, distorted audio, varying output, etc.) .. I believe this to be the 60 watt PA for the GE Mastr II Exec II mobile radio conversion. If I have the wrong board number, please advise ... Larry Wagoner - N5WLW PRCARC Training Officer PIC - MS SECT ARRL Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3117 - Release Date: 09/06/10 02:35:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
Guys .I have a similar problem with 2 repeaters but its in the receiver side .The maxon sm4450uhf receiver is tuned to the best it can be on the service monitor -115db and the bpbr duplexer is tuned to correct specs as far as I can see on the hp8921a .I have also tested the repeater in duplex mode into the service monitor and all good -115db no static, power out good Replaced the antenna and interconnecting cable is heliax and its all good I will be testing the antenna system with a new MFJ-269 antenna tester to make sure its ok .Transmission is a1 full distance but when a transmission is sent the repeater its good up close fast to come on but is slow to come on with distant stations. We are using a ctcss tone which I will be checking to see if it is correct .Saying that I should try it without the ctcss and see if it is better without the ctcss detection. Thank You ,Ian Wells Kerinvale Comaudio, 3A Murchison Street, Biloela.4715 Ph 0749922449 Mb 0409159932 Hm 0749922574 Fx 0749922767 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: Jeff DePolo Date: 7/09/2010 8:50:36 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions Or speed up the CWID one or two WPM, or change to a slightly higher tone frequency. Top 40 stations sometimes still do this trick (pitching up their CD players or automation system playback speed maybe 1%) - some PD's are convinced that it improves ratings for one reason or another... --- Jeff -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions I agree. Put it back to the original output. I always like to turn my stuff back at least 10%. Turn the beep tone up in volume, tell them you increased the power. see what they say. 73, Joe, K1ike On 9/6/2010 5:04 PM, Paul Plack wrote: John, here's a more subtle lesson on repeaters, and it has nothing to do with hardware... If you dial the power back 1 dB, your PA may be much happier. If you simultaneously change the courtesy beep to be 10% faster, users will ask you what's changed on the repeater. Tell them you've increased the transmitter output 3 dB, and they'll claim to have noticed the improved coverage. Tell him guys...am I wrong? ;^) 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Tim Sawyer mailto:tisaw...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions faint_grain.jpg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1
Larry - This is either an Exec II or a Mastr II - two different radios. The Exec II mobile is 'gray' and has a plastic, non-movable handle. The Mastr II mobile has a foldable handle. Which one do you have? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Wagoner larrywago...@bellsouth.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 8:27 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1 Anyone have one of the above they wish to part with? We have reason to suspect the PA in our repeater. It has developed various intermittent behaviors (dropping carrier, distorted audio, varying output, etc.) .. I believe this to be the 60 watt PA for the GE Mastr II Exec II mobile radio conversion. If I have the wrong board number, please advise ... Larry Wagoner - N5WLW PRCARC Training Officer PIC - MS SECT ARRL
