United Brass makes a 1/2 by 1/2 male by female and a 3/4 x 3/4 male by
female extender. These can be used to extend a drop that is cut too short.
AFSA in the past had a BEST PRACTICE written about the use of these. There
is some argument that these should not be used but they can be
As I remember the return bend was to help insure that creeping crud and
corrosion does not build up on the orifice inlet of the sprinkler and cause
problems with the operation of the sprinkler. Or maybe I am just getting brain
hiccups.
Michael L. Brown
Manager of Technical Services
The
My point is that the NFPA 13D Committee should provide guidelines to follow in
these situations. I do not care if they say calculate the room to light hazard
as long as they put it in writing. But the way it is now, it is just what ever
the contractor or engineer (designer) can get the AHJ to
The NFPA 13D Committee in their wisdom (or as some people have suggested lack
thereof) put in the 2007 Edition Paragraph 8.1.3.1.2
Where construction features or other special conditions exist that are outside
the scope of sprinkler listings, listed sprinklers shall be permitted to be
Actually, in several counties around Atlanta, the test was also required for
garden style apartments up to four stories. You would be surprised that, at
least in the beginning, a number of projects that had full blown hydraulic
calculations failed when the bucket test showed them to be
, 2008, at 6:15 AM, Mike Brown (TECH- GVL) wrote:
Actually, in several counties around Atlanta, the test was also
required for garden style apartments up to four stories. You would
be surprised that, at least in the beginning, a number of projects
that had full blown hydraulic calculations failed
. It can't be done with just a copy of FM Data Sheets.
Joe
Mike Brown (TECH- GVL) wrote:
Roland
This will get you going---As usual the engineer does not want to do anything
but get paid.
Just write in the spec:
[Sprinkler System as per NFPA 13 and all materials and design shall meet UL
Of Mike
Brown (TECH- GVL)
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:56 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: What is a Bucket Test? (TIA Needed)
I agree with Thom in that, as we are getting closer to mandated fire
sprinklers in single family homes, the potential for a large number of
new
I am sure if you contact the Cobb County Georgia Fire Department they will tell
you about a lot of failures particularly when they first started. The local
contractors know about the test and check it themselves before they call for an
inspection. You guys are very diligent about your
You use the orifice size of the sprinklers that you are testing. You install
full port ball valve in a drain pipe from each of the sprinklers you are
testing with the correct orifice. If you contact Cobb County, GA you can get
their procedures if you are interested.
Michael L. Brown
Manager
on 13D's.
Just wanted to make sure no confusion on that.
John Drucker
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
Brown (TECH- GVL)
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:45 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: U.S. Fire Administration Policy
You can get one at Reliable. It is called a SureOff Tester. Contact your
local Reliable representative.
Michael L. Brown
Manager of Technical Services
The Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Company, Inc.'
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.reliablesprinkler.com
(864) 843-5228
-Original Message-
From:
In response the Omega/GB problem has not gone away since there are probably
thousands that have not been changed out or replaced.
If the industry is really serious about ensuring the residential systems work
just mandate the Put the Water in the Bucket test and do an on the site test
that the
You may be hanging out with the wrong crowd.
Michael L. Brown
Manager of Technical Services
The Reliable Automatic Sprinkler Company, Inc.'
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.reliablesprinkler.com
(864) 843-5228
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd
In the tripped mode the water would be flowing out the alarm line to the bell
or pressure switch. The clapper would be in the latched position. If the
clapper is not latched and is on the seat the water column probably would
prevent it from operating. This could be a dangerous situation. In
In years past staggered spacing was required in extra hazard applications. At
that time you only had 1/2 (5.6K) and 3/4 (8.0K) sprinklers. You may also find
some 3/4 pipe used on old pipe schedule systems.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Reliable F1 Res 49 is listed for an 8 inch deflector distance but the
problem with all residential sprinklers is that they are not listed for
obstructed construction which you may find in an attic. NFPA 13D addresses it
by saying that you can install pendent residential basements where it
No in the past before calculations there was a requirement in NFPA 13 to
actually space the sprinkler in a staggered pattern rather than the way we
space them today. Normally you would have ten foot spacing and the starter
pieces in each line were done such that the sprinklers on one line were
Examiner
Nebraska State Fire Marshal's Office
246 S. 14th Street
Lincoln, NE 68508
402-471-9659
402-471-3118 fax
www.sfm.ne.gov
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Brown
(TECH- GVL)
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 2:50 PM
To: sprinklerforum
In Vietnam we used White Phosphorus bombs (known as Willie Pete). You
cannot put it out with water.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rosemary
Beers
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:57 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Years ago I made all of the arguments that I see you making and the old
Fire Marshal in Florida said fine if you do not put a sprinkler under
the top bunk I will not give you a CO. END OF STORY.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Check The International Building Code which requires sprinklers protecting some
decks and in that section the IBC allows deviations from NFPA 13 or the
sprinkler listing. Maybe some bleed over into exterior canopies.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL
See the June 2006 Edition of Sprinkler Age in the article Balconies and the
IBC by Steve Rians.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Holsopple
(forum)
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:51 AM
To:
] On Behalf Of Mike Brown
(TECH- GVL)
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:47 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Dry HSW under open framed 2x's
Check The International Building Code which requires sprinklers protecting
some decks and in that section the IBC allows deviations from NFPA 13
That has been in NFPA 13 for ages but in 37 years I have never seen on done
that way.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Holsopple
(forum)
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:51 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Brown
(TECH- GVL)
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:31 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Dry HSW under open framed 2x's
There are two issues with a sprinkler. Those are sensitivity and
distribution. The sidewall sprinklers must be tested to insure
If you would like one I will send you a copy of my Rules of Thumb for
designing large dry systems. You can contact me off line at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MLB
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Reza
Esmaeili
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 11:17
Reza
Take a look at your available pressure and choke down your branch line
sizes and look at your cross main and feed main sizes as well. If you
can reduce them this makes the system volume less as well as makes the
system more economical. If you have a lot of pressure and the structure
will
Hi
There are no restrictions in NFPA 13 for Standard Spray Sprinklers. The
ceiling limitations are for storage sprinklers like ESFR. The old NFPA
101 Life Safety used to allow you to eliminate sprinklers in atriums
above 55 feet in height. There have been times when this has been
questions in
point is that NFPA 13 should be read literally rather than being
interpreted on the basis of assumptions about the depth and breadth of
testing that may or may not be true, depending on the application. 13 is
not defective, but some of the interpretations of it are.
Joe
Mike Brown (TECH- GVL
If you are interested I have a document that I call Rules of Thumb for
designing large dry systems that might be helpful. Not engineering but
just old time rules that I learned at Automatic many years ago. If
you will send me your email address at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I
will be happy to share
Before you get too excited about the engineering process and testing I offer
the following:
In the early 70's, GEM (Not called Tyco then) had a HSW that covered 16 x 28
ft. It was UL Listed until they figured out that they did not test it with a
ceiling. When they did, the water spray hit the
This may stem from the CPVC people who say do not both tape and dope
the thread It has always been done with steel pipe but with CPVC it
can cause problems.
Mike Brown.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve
Leyton
Sent: Friday, December
I guess being old and having been around for a long time. The 32 ft per
sec came from some old water distribution engineering manuals and became
sort of a rule of thumb for sprinkler calculations in that when you get
above that velocity the friction loss gets larger in a hurry. At one
time FM
The monitoring of a high pressure is not in NFPA 13 or any other NFPA
Pamphlet except in NFPA 72, and the NFPA 13 Committee has never seen fit
to put it in NFPA 13. I have never met anyone that could tell me why it
was in NFPA 72.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Just for your info. Reliable still makes a Sealing Concealer with a
gasket but it is not quick response or FM Approved. Check the Reliable
website www.reliablesprinkler.com
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
Cabral
Sent:
Let me say again, you might want to check with the AHJ because many of
them and some of the building codes still requiring a one head test and
you must get the water to the ITC in 60 seconds. You can engineer it
all you want but it will boil down to what the code and the AHJ
requires.
Michael L.
You might want to check the building codes. Some require that the
system meet the 60 second rule no matter what the volume of the dry
system is.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris
Cahill
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007
There was one of the after market providers that used to have a
plastic sprinkler head box.
ARCO or FPPI ??
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete
Schwab
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 11:39 AM
To:
Folks
The Put the Water in the Bucket Test was developed years ago when
Cobb County GA Fire Department was promoting what later became NFPA 13R.
The Cobb County Fire Dept. was promoting an affordable fire sprinkler
system in commercial and residential applications. There was a video
produced by
Yes, contact the AFSA and the NFSA. I believe that Roland Huggins did
an article on it and I know Russ Fleming of the NFSA did one years ago.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
Autry
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 12:07 PM
OK
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill
Minkel
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 10:34 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Test
It was a slow Friday.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL
Dear Ed
You may want to talk to the NFPA 13 D Committee that in the 2007 Edition
allowed the use of dry and preaction systems in residential occupancies.
There is no doubt that the old reliable wet system is the least likely
to need maintenance etc. but how many fires have not been controlled by
If the designer or engineer knew what he or she was doing there would be
a test valve in the pilot line to test the system.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:44 PM
To:
Folks
A water hammer can do nasty things to a sprinklers system but just pump
pressure can cause problems if the sprinkler fitters have not done their
work properly. Years ago at Phillips Plaza in Atlanta a grooved
coupling was not properly tightened because the groove on the pipe was
too
45 matches
Mail list logo
