Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-20 Thread Eric Oyen
ehalf > Of Joe > Sent: September-18-12 7:56 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6 > > Even if the App Store weren't accessible, we would still have had our > computers. Honestly when I read the subject line, I though

Windows Phone 8 [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-19 Thread Christopher Chaltain
gt; -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Marco Migotti > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 11:32 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6 > > I am thankful to

RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-19 Thread Joe
s from checking out the iPhone or any Apple products.--Joe -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Marco Migotti Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 11:32 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: a warning to voice over users conc

RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-18 Thread Marco Migotti
that are coming out. Marco -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: September-18-12 7:56 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6 Even if the App Store weren't access

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-18 Thread James Mannion
I really, really hope something with the app store is the biggest problem. I hope there is no problem, including with the app store, but if there is, then I hope that would be the biggest thing. As we knew and they have already proven, that can be fixed easily from their end. Plus there are many wa

RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-18 Thread Joe
Even if the App Store weren't accessible, we would still have had our computers. Honestly when I read the subject line, I thought: Ah crap. We're screwed now, but in the grand scheme of things, this is hardly the alarm it was cracked up to be.--Joe -- You received this message because you are sub

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-18 Thread Scott Howell
David, I fondly remember VO in the days of Tiger. I was impressed even then for what VO could do and I have sure grown to appreciate where it is going today. It is hard to believe how little time has passed in the scheme of things. Of course a lifetime can occur in the world of technology in the

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-18 Thread Robin
Hello, I will have to disagree with that. Apple most likely had its voiceOver Team work on the iOS platform after they introduced the iPhone in 2007 to determine how VoiceOver could be incorporated into the iPhone. This is probably how VoiceOver emerged in the MACS. They did NOT release eit

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-18 Thread David Chittenden
Sure, this info comes from the world blind union and is the most recent published numbers I could locate. They state 39 million out of 6.7 billion meet the US legal definition of blindness. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-18 Thread David Chittenden
Microsoft, Palm, and Apple were all trying to find the "holy grail" of touch-screen access. Apple's first attempt, the Newton, was a spectacular failure. Palm took an early lead, then Microsoft moved ahead and Palm folded. Then, Apple found their first major success with the iPod with click whee

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-18 Thread David Chittenden
Hello, Like Windows, Apple relied on a 3rd party program, OutSpoken, for blindness accessibility back in the 90's. When Berkeley Systems went out of business, another company bought OutSpoken from them, but only worked on the PC version of OutSpoken for a couple years. The new company let the M

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-18 Thread Christopher Chaltain
Right, I agree with everything here. I'm just wondering though if Apple didn't realize that creating an accessible mobile platform wasn't going to give them an edge or open up new opportunities in government, small business and educational facilities. I mean if Android had made this paradigm shift

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-18 Thread Scott Howell
Teresa, Very good and thanks for the clarification and true not all economies are capitalist. More correctly stated I should say in my opinion, a free market economy is more successful and is most likely capitalist. :) Either way I agree that APple should not do more just because of blindness.

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-18 Thread Teresa Cochran
Hi, Scott, My response was regarding Joanne's sentiment that more should be done for blind people because we need it. Well, not all economies are Capitalist, but that's a side issue. In any case, my point was that I applaud Apple's commitment, but I don't see them spending a lot of money on acc

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-18 Thread Gerardo Corripio
ps. >> >> >> Regards, >> Sieghard >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Joanne Chua >> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:52 PM >> To: viphone@go

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-18 Thread Chris
, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joanne Chua Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:52 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users co

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-18 Thread Scott Howell
Theresa, I'm not sure what you mean by the "capitalist economy" since all economies are capitalist in nature. In fact I'd argue that without capitalism Apple would not have any incentive to consider accessibility. I'm not sure where charities fit into this conversation either. The fact is APple

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-17 Thread Gerardo Corripio
If Apple will continue as is on naking its products accessible is exactly wasI was asking myself awhile ago, especially with the talk these past few days on here about the App store breaking Voiceover accessible, as I asked myself what could I expect on ny next IPhone in Febuary of 2014 when th

RE: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-17 Thread Sieghard Weitzel
m: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joanne Chua Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:52 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"] Hi David, If that is

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-17 Thread David Chittenden
cular source I was aware > of. > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > David Chittenden > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 9:41 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Apple's commitme

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-17 Thread David Chittenden
Hello, First, don't confuse timelines. Original Android accessibility was only with physical buttons and keyboards, and this was after VO was released on the iPhone. Before VO was released on the iPhone, it was known that accessibility was not very possible on a touch-screen. In other words, t

RE: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-17 Thread Kramlinger, Keith G., M.D.
commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"] Hello, Please forgive my cynicism in my final statement of those poor blind people. I am preparing my proposal for my doctoral research. My proposed topic is how are blind people able to adapt to touc

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-17 Thread Christopher Chaltain
How do you know Apple wouldn't have lost any educational or governmental contracts if they hadn't made IOS accessible? I recall a situation where the DoJ blocked the use of Kindles (at least I think it was Kindles) to distribute text books as ebooks. Plus, more and more businesses are using and req

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-17 Thread Teresa Cochran
The issue of blind folk and touch screens is quite fascinating. I've always had trouble with spatial orientation, and if it weren't for the constant audible feedback, I'd get losT on a Magic Trackpad for the Mac or the screen on my IPOD. That said, I am really beginning to appreciate the spatial

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-17 Thread David Chittenden
Hello, Please forgive my cynicism in my final statement of those poor blind people. I am preparing my proposal for my doctoral research. My proposed topic is how are blind people able to adapt to touch screen devices, so I am currently reading all the academic and professional research I can fi

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-17 Thread Joanne Chua
Hi David, If that is the case of what you said, we "poor blind people", why Apple should care on putting voiceover in their touch screen products? Not only that, Apple also advertise that their products are friendly to people with access needs. Just a thought Regards Joanne On 18/09/2012, David

RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread John Diakogeorgiou
I totally agree with you and look at the difference in the price as well. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:10 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: a warning to voice

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread David Chittenden
The fact is, blindness, including legal blindness, is between .5% and .6% of the world population. We are a very tiny minority of any population. Many companies have discontinued products which were very popular amongst the blind because the sighted were not interested. We do not matter when con

Re: Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-17 Thread David Chittenden
You are correct for the Mac. For iOS devices, however, this is not the case. Most of the professional proofs and studies clearly demonstrated that blind peepul, as a whole, did not have the necessary spatial awareness, and attempting to memorise, without good tactile clues, would be almost impos

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread David Chittenden
Sure, CF demonstrated that blind people could spatially conceive four buttons on a touch-screen without any tactile feedback. The professionals were too busy proving why this was impossible. Apple merely completely rewrote the entire paradigm by advancing it a few generations in one swoop and t

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Ricardo Walker
Hi, I really do think, the amount of voiceover users using IOS and Macs, is the often mentioned drop in the bucket as far as pure numbers are concerned. I'm not saying we are any more or less important than the average user. I'm just saying, lets not over estimate our numbers, or, scheme in

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Joanne Chua
Hi, It might seems like there're only 100,000 vip iphone users in the states, however, lets not forget those who's not in the states, and who is using the iphone as much as the vip users in the states. More so, perhaps 50% of these user, (those who users an iphone) would have second Apple product

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Scott Howell
I don't feel that is relevant and no I do not take anything from CF as far as what they accomplished. I do not believe though that Apple took anything from what CF learned. On Sep 17, 2012, at 5:23 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: > But you will agree or some of you will, Code Factory did start the

RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Regina Alvarado
right track. Thanks to all. Reggie -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Howell Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:29 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6 You know I&#

Commitment to accessibility [was " Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-17 Thread Christopher Chaltain
I agree with everything you said. I never meant to imply that any one was doing as much as Apple. I just wanted to point out that their are other companies who do have a commitment to accessibility. Furthermore, I think part of Apple's justification was related to governmental regulations (not unl

Apple's commitment to accessibility [was "Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6"]

2012-09-17 Thread Christopher Chaltain
I agree with David here, but I also wonder how much of Apple's sales are effected by their commitment to accessibility. For example, how many government sales or small business sales or educational sales wouldn't have even been possible if they weren't able to demonstrate that they had an accessibl

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Kawal Gucukoglu
But you will agree or some of you will, Code Factory did start the possibility of touch screen and may be Apple did learn something from them don't some of you think? On 17 Sep 2012, at 22:09, Scott Howell wrote: > Yes and that is why APple is so innovative. I have always felt that there > wou

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Scott Howell
Yes and that is why APple is so innovative. I have always felt that there would be a way for blind people to use a touch interface and Apple made it happen in a much more meaningful way than Code Factory did with their approach. I'm not saying CF was wrong in their approach necessarily, but it c

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Scott Howell
David, True, but my point is that although a small portion of the overall sales, APple still considers this segment worth the investment. I would love to know what the real numbers are across all Apple products including the Macs. On Sep 17, 2012, at 4:19 PM, David Chittenden wrote: > Do not

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread David Chittenden
The fact is, before apple came out with their revolutionary touch-based screen reader, it was not believed blind people could work with touch screens in such a way. The closest thing was Mobile Speak who turned the touch-screen in to 4 large buttons, and created an invisible talking keyboard tha

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread David Chittenden
Hello, I must differ with you about Apple's accessibility compared with other mainstream companies. Apple is unique in that they are making all of their physical products as accessible as possible (we cannot say all of their products since iCloud accessibility online is only partial). IBM wou

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Peter Durieux
hi folks, maybe this is the new big supricing bug for ios6. now the maybe fixed the tts lost bug from ios5. ;) in every ios release there is one bug that is very annoying and take apple a year to fix. :) think of the misspronauntiation of the tts in ios4> :) hopefully I'm wrong ;) Mvg -Peter

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread David Chittenden
Do not consider 100,000 iPhones to blind folk to be much of a market in this case. This number represents 0.3% of 1 quarter year of Apple's iPhone sales, but includes all models of iPhones for the past 3 years. In other words, if Apple were to stop supporting VO, they wouldn't even notice the ti

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Anthony Vece
. > > Jonathan > > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Shawn Krasniuk > Sent: Tuesday, 18 September 2012 6:15 a.m. > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6 > > Hi Sandy. Yes, I

RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Jonathan Mosen
the issue, just offering work-arounds for a situation that I very much hope is temporary. Jonathan _ From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk Sent: Tuesday, 18 September 2012 6:15 a.m. To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: a warnin

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Shawn Krasniuk
Hi Sandy. Yes, I was talking about the App Store in IOS 6. If I have to plug my phone in to buy apps and everything like that, I'll just wait until they fix it and then I'll upgrade. Shawn Sent from my white Mac Book On 2012-09-17, at 10:39 AM, viphone@googlegroups.com wrote: > -- You recei

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Scott Howell
You know I've not been much a fan of Chrome or the ChromVox, but you know I understand it is still early in its development. WHat I am pleased by is the fact that GOogle also is investing in accessibility and I hope other companies will see the benefits and jump on the wagon as well. Do I want t

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Christopher Chaltain
Just two other points here. Accessibility like any other project may have it's priority rise and fall as other projects priorities change or as Apple perceives it's lead in the accessibility area growing or shrinking. this is no different than any other project. I agree that Apple has done a lot a

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Marc Rocheleau
Hey Scott, I totally understand what you mean. Like I said, I'm trying not to jump the gun or anything -- it's more a paranoia of mine than a valid fear. I fully acknowledge that Apple has too much money to lose if they drop accessibility from their products, especially with the communities that h

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Ben Mustill-Rose
f > Of Shawn Krasniuk > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 2:21 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6 > > > > Hi. I might also wait for others to report if the App Store issue is fixed. > I hate the fact that if I want to i

RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Sandy Finley
[mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 2:21 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6 Hi. I might also wait for others to report if the App Store issue is fixed. I hate the fact that if I wan

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Scott Howell
Marc, Before folks go running off on a tangent about accessibility, Steve Jobs, and so forth I think it is important to point out: 1. Steve Jobs, although a great man, was not the exclusive determining factor for Voiceover in Apple's products. 2. Just because Steve has passed on does not mean Ap

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-17 Thread Scott Howell
ups.com] On Behalf > Of Jonathan Mosen > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 9:23 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6 > > Yup, I can confirm this. I tend to do very specific searches so hadn't seen > the full implica

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-16 Thread Shawn Krasniuk
Hi. I might also wait for others to report if the App Store issue is fixed. I hate the fact that if I want to install an app I have to connect my iPhone to Itunes. It's a load of crap in my opinion. Shawn Sent from my white Mac Book On 2012-09-16, at 11:19 PM, viphone@googlegroups.com wrote: -

RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-16 Thread Marco Migotti
Is this the app store the only native app that is potentially inaccessible to voiceover? I'll hold off on updating till others can give a review of OS 6. Marco -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Head Sent: September-

Re: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-16 Thread Marc Rocheleau
Wow, I sincerely hope that app developers who use VoiceOver have been reporting these problems to Apple's accessibility team. This is something I always fear with their redesigns, especially now that Steve Jobs is no longer with us. Obviously I'm trying not to jump the gun but the changes sometimes

RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-16 Thread Daniel Miller
viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Mosen Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 9:23 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6 Yup, I can confirm this. I tend to do very specific searches so hadn't seen the fu

RE: a warning to voice over users concerning IOS 6

2012-09-16 Thread Jonathan Mosen
Yup, I can confirm this. I tend to do very specific searches so hadn't seen the full implications of this before. So I apologise for my previous post which didn't really convey the enormity of this. Updating apps work as I described, but this is very serious. Let's hope something can be done withou