So that pundits like you can write that threshold article that pushes the
world that one last inch. When life gives you lemons, make some lemonade,
man.
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Why does the MFMP produce such execrable writing? That article reads that
So, from other threads on this list it sounds like it's possible that the
detected radiation might not be extraordinary?
[m]
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote:
So that pundits like you can write that threshold article that pushes the
world that one
Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
So, from other threads on this list it sounds like it's possible that the
detected radiation might not be extraordinary?
What do you mean by this list? What list? Do you mean the comments at the
MFMP?
Vortex
[m]
On Thursday, November 7, 2013, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'mgi...@gibbs.com'); wrote:
So, from other threads on this list it sounds like it's possible that the
detected radiation might not be extraordinary?
What do you mean by
.
Bob
From: mark.gi...@gmail.com [mailto:mark.gi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Gibbs
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 2:22 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Face-Palm moment: Essen et al did it again! [Abd's open
letter]
So, from other threads on this list it sounds like
Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Vortex
Oh.
Maybe I am missing something. I don't see people here saying the radiation
might not be extraordinary.
It might not be real, in which case it is not extraordinary. It might be an
instrument artifact.
If it is real, it is proof the effect is
Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote:
I would say that the detected radiation is NOT extraordinary. Dr. Storms
published a paper on his measurements of radiation from LENR experiments. .
. .
You mean it is not unexpected in a cold fusion reaction. That's right.
There are many reports
What's significant would be highly reproducible gamma rays from a
relatively inexpensive device. Replication of the experiment would then be
done by grad students whose advisers were young enough in 1989 to not have
placed their own reputations in a noose at the end of a very long rope.
On Thu,
I don't see it.
They already have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroelectric_fusion neutron
generators (published in Nature) which sound pretty cheap to make.
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:14 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
What's significant would be highly reproducible gamma rays from
The wonders of Gamma ray production is inconsequential in the face of the
huge magnetic force produced by just heating a pile of dust.
That is the same force strength that an MRI produces using superconducting
magnets.
Explained that one kemosabe..
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:14 PM, James Bowery
Yes, I meant not significant ... that was what I took away from Bob
Higgins' comment:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com
wrote:
From a product perspective, don’t forget that CRT’s produce X-rays in this
energy range. The CRTs were later designed to have
You are thinking like a nuclear engineer. The LENR process gently
rearranges quarks into stable nuclear structures. How this is all done will
take some explaining. But it does not involve neutrons.
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Yes, I meant not significant
...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Gibbs
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:27 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Face-Palm moment: Essen et al did it again! [Abd's open
letter]
Another thing ... if low energy gamma is being blocked by the reactor wall
after some prolonged period of operation
Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Yes, I meant not significant ... that was what I took away from Bob
Higgins' comment:
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com
wrote:
From a product perspective, don’t forget that CRT’s produce X-rays in
this energy range.
The very fact that transmutation is occurring is proof that a nuclear
reaction is occurring.
.
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Yes, I meant not significant ... that was what I took away from Bob
Higgins' comment:
OK, so it seems that gamma rays may be an output from LENR systems but is
it the case that experimenters have just simply failed to look for them or
that they don't always occur. Likewise with the incredible magnetic field
that has been claimed, has that been seen more than once? Do the MFMP
As I recall, Rossi used lead shielding on the early e-cats but doesn't
(I think) anymore.
So he and Focardi must have seen gamma radiation but only later
discovered that it was part of the start up process and not a problem
during normal operation.
To answer Mark's question, I believe that if you had a gamma sensor inside
the reactor, you would see gamma every time you see LENR (Bob's opinion).
What would change is the spectrum of the gamma. When the LENR starts or
runs un-optimized, the photon energy is higher - perhaps in the 50 keV to
Thank you, an outstanding summary.
[m]
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.comwrote:
To answer Mark's question, I believe that if you had a gamma sensor inside
the reactor, you would see gamma every time you see LENR (Bob's opinion).
What would change is the
In the third party test of the hi-temp Rossi reactor, no gamma radiation
was detected.
When the Ni/H reactor is pre-heated above the Curie point of nickel, gammas
are not generated.
Rossi eliminated gamma production when he started to use a secondary
pre-heater.
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:48 PM,
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Why does the MFMP produce such execrable writing? That article reads that
it was translated from Urdu into English.
Not everyone with MFMP are native English speakers.
Eric
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Another thing ... if low energy gamma is being blocked by the reactor wall
after some prolonged period of operation wouldn't the inside of the wall
show an elevated level of radiation?
I'm not a nuclear scientist, but I'll try
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
The pundit writes an article, which will trigger other articles, which --
perhaps in a matter of days -- may trigger an avalanche of interest. Public
opinion changes quickly in the Internet era.
***The MFMP finding Gamma
Why does the MFMP produce such execrable writing? That article reads that
it was translated from Urdu into English.
[m]
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
The pundit writes an
because the know they are wrong, and they have to protect their certainty
to be right...
That is not logic, but it is logical; for a brain which defend it's mental
asset.
http://www.princeton.edu/~rbenabou/papers/Groupthink%20Slides%20for%20Posting_s.pdf
You are assuming that the NSA has good motives. I call that naive. In
addition, we have the Petro-Fascist establishment -that was tied to the US
starting an unnecessary ( actually involving fraud) war that cost 10's of
thousands of lives and billions, if not trillions, of dollars -and leaving
Chris Zell chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote:
**
You are assuming that the NSA has good motives. I call that naive.
I do not assume anything about the NSA's motives. However, I know for a
fact that the high level people in the Navy and the DoE do not believe in
cold fusion. They think it is a
Beware of your logic - because if you break up the opposition into factions,
you cannot deny that some of them might be violent and open to the possibility
that disruptive tech is about to emerge.
I am old enough to recall disturbing remarks made in the financial community
about the
Chris Zell chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote:
**
Beware of your logic - because if you break up the opposition into
factions, you cannot deny that some of them might be violent and open to
the possibility that disruptive tech is about to emerge.
I agree this is possible. I think full openness
With the renaissance of the U.S. energy prospects in the coming decades,
geopolitical considerations will discourage the American government from
throwing that strategic advantage away for an egalitarian energy source.
The U.S. can gain great geopolitical co-operation from both friend and foe
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
The LENR developer will have a hard time in the U.S. to counter this
geopolitical situation. . . .
The U.S. will use its soft power to counter LENR development. For example,
they might use a stuxnet computer virus attack to slow up LENR development
in a
If the U.S. military industrial complex got exclusive hold of LENR, they
would classify it as top secret. The military would begin a maskirovka
campaign to cover any knowledge of LENR.
This is usually achieved by creating or amplifying an artificial fog of war
via psychological operations,
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
If the U.S. military industrial complex got exclusive hold of LENR, they
would classify it as top secret. The military would begin a maskirovka
campaign to cover any knowledge of LENR.
That is not possible. Information about cold fusion is too widespread.
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:09:09 PM
A small army, navy or airforce with cold fusion powered weapons and
equipment could easily wipe out the U.S. military in a few weeks,
the way the Germans destroyed Poland and France in 1939 and 1940.
They had
My poor naive and delusional friend, don’t bestow any presumption of ethics
and fair play to this crop of extremely skilled miscreants and fabricators
where the ends justify the means. And have no doubt; it was all about oil
and the money that goes with it. Nothing of substance has changed over
Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:09:09 PM
A small army, navy or airforce with cold fusion powered weapons and
equipment could easily wipe out the U.S. military in a few weeks,
the way the Germans destroyed
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
Remember what happened to CIA operative Valerie Plame. Both she and her
husband were destroyed and put into danger because they resisted the party
line: the maskirovka campaign: the mushroom cloud gambit.
Do you think the U.S. government could do that to a
I support your vision.
Rejection of LENr is not conspiracy of evil, but closed-mindness of those
who have the data, and conformism of others...
Some self delusion to hide that shame close the story.
2013/6/27 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
The LENR
Your counter-strategy is workable only if the true secret of LENR is widely
dispersed among all that desires to know, but it is not. Far from it, it is
closely held by a very few who are jealously protecting their intellectual
rights and prominent competitive position by a misinformation program
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
Your counter-strategy is workable only if the true secret of LENR is
widely dispersed among all that desires to know, but it is not. Far from
it, it is closely held by a very few who are jealously protecting their
intellectual rights and prominent
Jed wrote:
This device is worth trillions of dollars to industrial corporations
worldwide. Such secrets cannot be kept under wraps forever.
True, but then I found this sentence in your book:
The bottom line is that the energy sector, which is the largest industry in
the world — a $2.8
Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote:
This device is worth trillions of dollars to industrial corporations
worldwide. Such secrets cannot be kept under wraps forever.
True, but then I found this sentence in your book:
The bottom line is that the energy sector, which is the largest
I am pretty sure they did bring other instruments. I can ask. As I
mentioned, in previous studies Levi brought a small $20 wattmeter, similar
to a Kill-a-watt. (A European brand; I have forgotten the name. I have a
photo of it somewhere.)
John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote:
It depends of
I am not 100% sure, but I think an AC meter would read a current from such
fluctuating DC, I might be wrong, easy to test, but I am moving house soon
so my equipment is packed away, but some AC meters such as clamp meters
should still give an AC reading, as for an AC volt meter I am unsure,
maybe,
Quoting from a previous mail:
Consider two circuits connected by a pair of wires. Assuming circuits
do not accumulate charge nor radiate, whatever current goes in must
eventually go out, therefore it is sufficient to specify the
instantaneous current I(t) in one wire. If we take one of the
the AC powermeter and other AC instruments will see faster enough
fluctuating DC, as a kind of AC...
however they will miss the DC average, or the very slow changes...
If Essenall did not measure DC, they forget something.
however Rossi was not sure they did not bring a grandpa DC voltmeter lik
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com mailto:a...@lomaxdesign.com
wrote:
First of all, the clamp-on probes used with the PCE-830 cannot
measure DC current
I don't know about this one, but my 30-year-old analog Radio Shack
clip-on ammeter sure can measure DC. You turn the knob to DC
about Clamp and DC, there are 2 kind of clamp.
some are pure AC transformers, with good AC bandwidth (up to MHz).
some are hall effect, with DC sensibility, but moderate bandwidth (few
kHz), and very expensive.
it seems the PCE830 clamps are AC only...
maybe a bad choice for that test... I have
Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote:
about Clamp and DC, there are 2 kind of clamp.
There is only one clamp on my Radio Shack ammeter.
I suppose it is not good for very low current.
(I can't find it . . . I may have thrown it out or given it away, but
anyway there was only one clamp.)
There is a reason (this is not about scam) that Rossi did not allow DC
measurement.
2013/6/26 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote:
about Clamp and DC, there are 2 kind of clamp.
There is only one clamp on my Radio Shack ammeter.
I suppose it is
-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 8:10 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Face-Palm moment: Essen et al did it again! [Abd's open
letter]
I am pretty sure they did bring other instruments. I can ask. As I mentioned
: Essen et al did it again! [Abd's open
letter]
I am not 100% sure, but I think an AC meter would read a current from such
fluctuating DC, I might be wrong, easy to test, but I am moving house soon so
my equipment is packed away, but some AC meters such as clamp meters should
still give an AC
@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 11:02 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Face-Palm moment: Essen et al did it again! [Abd's open
letter]
Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote:
about Clamp and DC, there are 2 kind of clamp.
There is only one clamp on my Radio Shack ammeter.
I suppose
I express badly...
It is only different models of clamp...
you seems to have the Hall effect clamp, which measure DC and not to high
frequency AC.
Essen seems to have used inductive clamp. Moreover it seems the PCE830
filter-out DC anyway, for current and voltage.
I don't know why expensive
In normal AC system DC bias is VERY rare. anytime a transformer is
involved the dc bias goes to zero.
Any AC powered device with a transformer in the front end of the power
supply will likely fail in a catastrophic way if any significant DC bias is
present.
(You drive the transfomrer magnetic
I will also add that adding DC bias to 3 phase power without blowing up the
step down transformer on the input side of this circuit
is an engineering effort in its own right... it would require skills in
power engineering and is not real simple...
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Paul Breed
From: Paul Breed
* In past jobs I've both designed and used power meters and I would have to
agree that if one is attempting to do fraud then putting DC bias on an AC
wall socket would be one possible way to do this. This fraud is easily
detected ... so it would be a risky thing to do
, 2013 1:49 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Face-Palm moment: Essen et al did it again! [Abd's open
letter]
I will also add that adding DC bias to 3 phase power without blowing up the
step down transformer on the input side of this circuit
is an engineering effort in its own right... it would require skills
-Palm moment: Essen et al did it again! [Abd's open
letter]
From:Paul Breed
Ø Inpast jobs I've both designed and used power meters and I would have to
agreethat if one is attempting to do fraud then putting DC bias on an AC wall
socket would beone possible way to do this… Thisfraud
I wrote:
about Clamp and DC, there are 2 kind of clamp.
There is only one clamp on my Radio Shack ammeter.
I take that back. The old one did not. Modern ones apparently do,
presumably with the Hall effect. See:
http://www.amazon.com/home-improvement/dp/B001VGND88
My old one was a
the issue.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 1:55 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Face-Palm moment: Essen et al did it again! [Abd's open
letter]
*From:* Paul Breed**
Ø In past jobs I've both designed
Allow me to summarize the DC injection hypothesis:
- It is theoretically possible to add DC to provide ~3kW of power that
would be invisible to the PCE-830.
However:
- Given the size of the wires, I guess that amperage would need to be
below 50 A. Otherwise the wires would heat up too much and
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 2:18 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:
Even if fraud is highly unlikely, didn't Essen make a technically erroneous
claim?
Essen does seem to infer that the symmetry of the displayed waveform
implies no DC offset, which would be a false conclusion IF the
Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote:
Allow me to summarize the DC injection hypothesis:
Thanks!
- It is theoretically possible to add DC to provide ~3kW of power that
would be invisible to the PCE-830.
That would be in the first test, where the cell melted. Much less power is
needed
I am going to link to this on facebook
Harry
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote:
Allow me to summarize the DC injection hypothesis:
- It is theoretically possible to add DC to provide ~3kW of power that
would be invisible to the PCE-830.
However:
-
In regard to these Cold Fusion adversaries, don't be too naive. I have
encountered many incidents in using the internet in which I strongly suspect
that sock puppet shills are used to derail certain topics.
On one site, I offered the latest news on Rossi's device and was suddenly
inundated by
On 6/26/2013 1:24 PM, Paul Breed wrote:
In normal AC system DC bias is VERY rare. anytime a transformer is
involved the dc bias goes to zero.
Any AC powered device with a transformer in the front end of the power
supply will likely fail in a catastrophic way if any significant DC
bias is
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 6:04 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
When will they finally realize that Rossi may have something?
They always knew he might, but they are skeptics and will always oppose any
advancement or change until it is over one way or the other.
Who expects to
Chris Zell chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote:
This is the era of the NSA. Have no doubt that everything is being watched.
I doubt the NSA has any interest in cold fusion. I wish they would take
notice of it. That might solve our funding problems!
If someone could produce a large bang I am pretty
John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote:
When will they finally realize that Rossi may have something?
They always knew he might . . .
I doubt that. I cannot read minds, but I get a sense that Shanahan, Nate
Lewis or Robert Park are certain they are right. It has never crossed their
minds
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:
John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote:
When will they finally realize that Rossi may have something?
They always knew he might . . .
I doubt that. I cannot read minds, but I get a sense that Shanahan, Nate
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 26 Jun 2013 18:46:24 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
He got that wrong. Most of the time, most people are inclined to stop
progress. As Martin said: People do not want progress. It makes them
uncomfortable. They dont want it, and they shant have it.
I don't thinks
Question: If skeptics really do not believe that something is possible,
then why must they fight so hard to defend reality from such an ill
conceived notion?
Especially when something like cold fusion clearly could not be believed
for long if funded and embraced and it turned out to be entirely
Open letter to Hanno Essen: As you may realize by now, I assume, you
erred in your original work with Mr. Kullander when you assumed that
a humidity meter could measure steam quality. Water under the bridge,
or under the steam space, as the case may be. Who would have thought
about liquid water
This discussion makes no sense to me. As far as I know, when you add DC to
AC power, you get a DC bias. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_bias
It is still alternating current, it just does not go as far down as up (or
vice versa). Any power meter set for AC will measure this correctly. A DC
On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 11:19 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
This discussion makes no sense to me. As far as I know, when you add DC to
AC power, you get a DC bias. See:
Yes and no, it all depends on the input stage of the PCE-830.
But the DC scam doesn't make sense and here's
It depends of the magnitude of the DC in relation to the AC.
If the DC bias was equal to the AC peak voltage, then the current would not
reverse.
And the peak voltage in the biased direction would have doubled.
Doubling the voltage quadruples the power, also the DC component could be
much
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