Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
At 03:34 PM 1/15/2012, Alan Fletcher wrote: Heck --- At $500 + $20/year I'm going to increase my order to FOUR units. Last I heard, Rossi was still saying you need a WATER line to the eCat. I hope that's changed. A few more AR blog clarifications (MY ..ok,ok : no need to respond) 1. Interface specifications will be released in September. 2. $500 is circulating-water (I think) heat only, not AC, which is an option ie Just water pumped through a core, no heat exchanger or anything : plus control system/frequency generator Makes the price much more reasonable. 3. Stand-alone space heater Christopher January 16th, 2012 at 4:32 PM Could you produce a simple E-Cat space heater that anyone could plug into a wall? ... AR : Do you know? Your is a very good idea. We gotta study it. (A few others, including Hank Mills chime in. Also a suggestion that it should be less than 10 kW) 4. He's considering domestic hot water. (Probably complicates certification if it's in the potable loop). AR: The principle is this, yes, but it will be simplyfied. 5 He answered some questions on safety/shut-down ... but his numbered answers don't correspond to the question marks in the original post eg : AR: ... in case of black out the safety control system will switch off the E-Cat and will switch on it wnen the power will return
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
if shielded in his lead replaceable cartridge, would that make it acceptable to UL, etc? There is some radiation from smoke detectors now. Smoke detectors don't work with gamma radiation, afaik. And shielding would take a lot more than the wall of a small cartridge for 512 keV gamma. The dose is important, of course, but the fact that gamma radiation occurs at all in detectable quantities is a killer for home use. You can run a nuclear facility with authorized, trained personnel after countless years of certification and under constant scrutiny of the authorities. In Germany you can't even do that anymore due to (misguided?) politicians. But doing it at home? Just imagine - two years after Fukujima a guy from Italy goes to market with a device that emits detectable gamma radiation, doesn't know or at least won't tell anybody how it really works or how it may behave in unforseen conditions - and the authorities just say Yes, ok, go ahead and sell it to everybody who wants one.? Its never going to happen that way. Probably a mute point since UL or TÜV or whoever won't ever see an e-cat anyway.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
In Aussie Guy's summary of the key points of the show he stated "Heating is via low energy Gammas hitting the lead shielding." I must of missed that in the interview and will have another listen when I get time. This sounds to me that the heat used to heat the water is produced by the heating of the lead shield by the radiation rather than the heat from the actual reaction itself. So in effect the lead shield has become the heat exchanger. Is my interpretation correct? If so this could explain why Rossi doesn't use another material (similar to DGT) for the shielding. On 16/01/12 07:58, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: Mark, Rossi claimed, in the latest interview, two 511 keV gammas, going in opposite directions, were produced and had been measured as a result of electron–positron annihilation inside the E-Cat reactor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron%E2%80%93positron_annihilation AG On 1/16/2012 6:08 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: Aussie Guy summarizing Rossi's interview... "512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected" 180 degs relative to what? -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
To each other. The total momentum is 0. 2012/1/16 Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net Aussie Guy summarizing Rossi's interview... 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected 180 degs relative to what? -Mark -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Can't this type of gamma rays be shielded (I think he meant 511 keV gammas)? Using google I found, e.g., the following (although I don't know how well the shielding works): http://www.corning.com/specialtymaterials/products_capabilities/radiation_shielding_glass/Med_Pet.aspx Further here http://www.google.com/url?sa=trct=jq=how%20to%20shield%20511%20kev%20gamma%20rayssource=webcd=1ved=0CB0QFjAAurl=http%3A%2F%2Frpop.iaea.org%2FRPOP%2FRPoP%2FContent%2FDocuments%2FTrainingPETCT%2FLectures%2FPETCT_L06_Protective_Equipment_WEB_.pptei=PRwUT7HPAdH7sgaV4YG7AQusg=AFQjCNHrlOvOzMONXpQShs8BoOzCShHAkQcad=rja They are talking about 3-5 cm of lead shielding which would be required. Levi, e.g., says that the majority of the reactors weight comes due to lead shielding (about 2cm). By the way: I tried to ask Rossi about this on his journal. Seems as if he didn't like the question... Defkalion however just answered that shielding is easy: http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23t=865p=5375#p5375 They refer to this company: http://www.ecomass.com/index.html Wolf 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected. Then why is he still alive - and how can he possibly claim to put serious effort in developing home units when from that factor alone it is abundantly clear that none of this technology will ever run anywhere that somebody calls home?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Wolf Fischer wolffisc...@gmx.de wrote: By the way: I tried to ask Rossi about this on his journal. Seems as if he didn't like the question... Although they don't get along, this is a common trait between the Ing and the Snake. They only post questions and comments they wish to see. I have ceased to read both blogs. T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Although they don't get along, this is a common trait between the Ing and the Snake. The Ing and the Snake. . . . It took me a while to decode that. It sounds like a 1990s cartoon show, like Pinky and the Brain. I have ceased to read both blogs. People read them? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
In Aussie Guy's summary of the key points of the show he stated Heating is via low energy Gammas hitting the lead shielding. In that case we'd be talking about liquid lead shielding. 3 cm would reduce 511 keV gamma by about 99%. Still - the equivalent of 10 kW x .01 would escape and Rossi would be dead, his product considered extremely hazardous and chances for a home unit below zero. Can't be.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
I am not sure if the point being made is that there can't be gamma radiation or else Rossi would be dead, or that there is gamma radiation and so it will never be a home appliance. The indications so far are that radiation levels are small, but not zero. This may well allow for home usage eventually, but there will be a lot of work to get through approvals. A lot of data on the variation with time of the radiation would be needed, and it may be necessary to have detectors and a quench system to deal with spikes. All of this would mean a far better understanding of the system than currently appears to be the case, so I fear that products for use in the home may be some way off, but still possible. Nigel On 16/01/2012 15:46, Yamali Yamali wrote: In that case we'd be talking about liquid lead shielding. 3 cm would reduce 511 keV gamma by about 99%. Still - the equivalent of 10 kW x .01 would escape and Rossi would be dead, his product considered extremely hazardous and chances for a home unit below zero. Can't be.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
I was referring to this statement: In Aussie Guy's summary of the key points of the show he stated Heating is via low energy Gammas hitting the lead shielding. And as I read it, it would imply that the energetic equivalent of 10 kW (or whatever an e-cat produces) would have to be thermalized in the lead shielding from gamma rays. So if the shield is 3 cm, the equivalent of about 10 kW x .01 or about 100 W would escape in form of 511 keV gamma. Easily enough to kill Rossi over the countless hours he stood right next to his machines on youtube alone (unless his famous brown coat is stuffed with something very different than goose feathers). The thermalized radiation therory doesn't hold if the 3 cm of lead is all there is. --- Nigel Dyer l...@thedyers.org.uk I am not sure if the point being made is that there can't be gamma radiation or else Rossi would be dead, or that there is gamma radiation and so it will never be a home appliance. The indications so far are that radiation levels are small, but not zero. This may well allow for home usage eventually, but there will be a lot of work to get through approvals. A lot of data on the variation with time of the radiation would be needed, and it may be necessary to have detectors and a quench system to deal with spikes. All of this would mean a far better understanding of the system than currently appears to be the case, so I fear that products for use in the home may be some way off, but still possible. Nigel
RE: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Jed and Terry sez: Although they don't get along, this is a common trait between the Ing and the Snake. The Ing and the Snake. . . . It took me a while to decode that. It sounds like a 1990s cartoon show, like Pinky and the Brain. I have ceased to read both blogs. People read them? Of course people read them. Especially neophyte believers for a particular cause - and the rabid skeptics that accompany them. Meanwhile, card carrying members residing in the peanut gallery do their best not to get hit by all the flying glass. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de mailto:yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: Smoke detectors don't work with gamma radiation, afaik. Maybe with very VERY thick smoke? Just imagine - two years after Fukujima a guy from Italy goes to market with a device that emits detectable gamma radiation, doesn't know or at least won't tell anybody how it really works or how it may behave in unforseen conditions - and the authorities just say Yes, ok, go ahead and sell it to everybody who wants one.? Its never going to happen that way. Well said! That's pretty funny. I agree that does sound unlikely. I think the only way it could happen would be if government regulators opposed to cold fusion refuse to admit the machine is real, and allow it only because they claim it does not exist. Stranger things have happened. If there is any measurable gamma radiation from this thing, with or without shielding, I too predict it will never be allowed for private use. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: I think the only way it could happen would be if government regulators opposed to cold fusion refuse to admit the machine is real, and allow it only because they claim it does not exist. Nonsense. First, almost nobody is opposed to cold fusion. Why in the world would anyone be opposed to a plentiful source of new, clean energy? Would people be opposed to hot fusion if it could be shown to economically feasible and safe? Would they be open to a new process to better extract energy from sunlight? Would they be opposed to a new find of huge amounts of natural gas? The idea that cold fusion isn't accepted because of some vague but highly evil conspiracy to oppose it is purely ridiculous. If Rossi or Defkalion's claims are real, which is looking less and likely with every day that passes, then no government regulator opposed to cold fusion could stop them. What would they say to a dozen clean and clear tests proving that those robust claims are valid? What could anyone possibly say if several prestigious test labs and universities verified those claims? What could they say when millions of machines poured out of Chinese, Indian, Mexican, or other country's factories? The conspiracy theory of why cold fusion isn't a proven and useful technology is crazy.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Ok, thanks! I'm just so busy that I don't have time to listen or read all that is going in with LENR. Which is one of the reasons I monitor Vortex... -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat [mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:59 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show Mark, Rossi claimed, in the latest interview, two 511 keV gammas, going in opposite directions, were produced and had been measured as a result of electron-positron annihilation inside the E-Cat reactor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron%E2%80%93positron_annihilation AG On 1/16/2012 6:08 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: Aussie Guy summarizing Rossi's interview... 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected 180 degs relative to what? -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: And as I read it, it would imply that the energetic equivalent of 10 kW (or whatever an e-cat produces) would have to be thermalized in the lead shielding from gamma rays. So if the shield is 3 cm, the equivalent of about 10 kW x .01 or about 100 W would escape in form of 511 keV gamma. Easily enough to kill Rossi over the countless hours he stood right next to his machines on youtube alone (unless his famous brown coat is stuffed with something very different than goose feathers). The thermalized radiation therory doesn't hold if the 3 cm of lead is all there is. I was just looking at Krivits theory table (which is quite useful -- if he keeps his personal opinion at bay) By Widom and Larsen: Finally, Widom and Larsen propose that heavy SPP patch electrons are uniquely able to immediately convert almost any locally produced or incident gamma radiation directly into infrared heat energy, thus providing a form of built-in gamma shielding for LENR nuclear reactions.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
A longer exposition at http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/WL/media-3rd-party/Widom-LarsenChemForumsLetter.shtml Question 3 and in a separate paper (which I hadn't looked at before) : http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cond-mat/pdf/0509/0509269v1.pdf By Widom and Larsen: Finally, Widom and Larsen propose that heavy SPP patch electrons are uniquely able to immediately convert almost any locally produced or incident gamma radiation directly into infrared heat energy, thus providing a form of built-in gamma shielding for LENR nuclear reactions.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
WL also predict an increase in surface conductivity (decrease in resistance) : The number density of heavy electrons on a metallic hydride surface is of the order of the number density of surface hydrogen atoms when there is a proton or deuteron flux moving through the surface and LENR are being neutron catalyzed. These added heavy electrons produce an anomalously high surface electrical conductivity at the LENR threshold. *** See Celani's recent stuff: Re: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR Akira Shirakawa Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:09:10 -0800 On 2012-01-06 02:52, Harry Veeder wrote: In plain language is Celani saying he found the electrical resistance of the wire decreases with increasing temperature *if* the wire is loaded with hydrogen? Exactly, and more importantly that this phenomenon appears to be correlated with anomalous heat production (ie successful LENR experiments), so potentially materials/samples showing a more pronounced transition from a positive to negative temperature coefficient of resistance with hydrogen loading are the best ones. If confirmed, this would be a significant step forward towards excess heat reproducibility. and in a separate paper (which I hadn't looked at before) : http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cond-mat/pdf/0509/0509269v1.pdf
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show -- WEB formatting
I'm away from my desk, and composing on a zimbra web interface. It looks fine in my mailer. When I look at the vortex web archive most of my line-feeds are stripped away. I think it isn't remembering my directive to format in text, not HTML.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show - RE-SENT
A longer exposition at http://www.newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/WL/media-3rd-party/Widom-LarsenChemForumsLetter.shtml Question 3 and in a separate paper (which I hadn't looked at before) : http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cond-mat/pdf/0509/0509269v1.pdf By Widom and Larsen: Finally, Widom and Larsen propose that heavy SPP patch electrons are uniquely able to immediately convert almost any locally produced or incident gamma radiation directly into infrared heat energy, thus providing a form of built-in gamma shielding for LENR nuclear reactions.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show -- RE-SENT
WL also predict an increase in surface conductivity (decrease in resistance) : The number density of heavy electrons on a metallic hydride surface is of the order of the number density of surface hydrogen atoms when there is a proton or deuteron flux moving through the surface and LENR are being neutron catalyzed. These added heavy electrons produce an anomalously high surface electrical conductivity at the LENR threshold. *** See Celani's recent stuff: Re: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR Akira Shirakawa Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:09:10 -0800 On 2012-01-06 02:52, Harry Veeder wrote: In plain language is Celani saying he found the electrical resistance of the wire decreases with increasing temperature *if* the wire is loaded with hydrogen? Exactly, and more importantly that this phenomenon appears to be correlated with anomalous heat production (ie successful LENR experiments), so potentially materials/samples showing a more pronounced transition from a positive to negative temperature coefficient of resistance with hydrogen loading are the best ones. If confirmed, this would be a significant step forward towards excess heat reproducibility. W-L: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cond-mat/pdf/0509/0509269v1.pdf
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
If this theory is really functional, how does it explain that after the experiment there isn't strong emission of gamma rays since all is generated by beta decay, a good share of which has a half life of days or weeks? It's in WL tables of decays. How does it explain the formation of Lithium and He4. The former is not possible in WL theory and the latter would take years, given that tritium has a half life of around 10 years. 2012/1/16 Alan Fletcher a...@well.com WL also predict an increase in surface conductivity (decrease in resistance) : The number density of heavy electrons on a metallic hydride surface is of the order of the number density of surface hydrogen atoms when there is a proton or deuteron flux moving through the surface and LENR are being neutron catalyzed. These added heavy electrons produce an anomalously high surface electrical conductivity at the LENR threshold. *** See Celani's recent stuff: Re: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR Akira Shirakawa Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:09:10 -0800 On 2012-01-06 02:52, Harry Veeder wrote: In plain language is Celani saying he found the electrical resistance of the wire decreases with increasing temperature *if* the wire is loaded with hydrogen? Exactly, and more importantly that this phenomenon appears to be correlated with anomalous heat production (ie successful LENR experiments), so potentially materials/samples showing a more pronounced transition from a positive to negative temperature coefficient of resistance with hydrogen loading are the best ones. If confirmed, this would be a significant step forward towards excess heat reproducibility. and in a separate paper (which I hadn't looked at before) : http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cond-mat/pdf/0509/0509269v1.pdf -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
AG, Thanks for this much more detailed summary! I was being too tired when I wrote mine... Should have waited over night. Some thoughts of mine on the interview and Rossis statements: The thing which interests me (also in the context of the probable quiescence problem as mentioned by Jones Beene) is the reactor control via regulation of operational heat point. How could he do this? He needs a way of a) increasing as well as b) decreasing the reactor temperature. Increasing is simple: Power the heat resistance module. But as soon as the reaction starts, how can he cool it down? From what I know about the reactor, there is the possibility of regulating the amount and pressure of H. However (as this seems to be a cartridge) there must be some way of releasing and again storing the H. What kind of cheap, reliable and fast mechanic would allow to add H to the reactor and, if the heat is too high, release some of the H (which, I think, must be again stored somewhere)? Or could he just deliver the cartridge with so much H that it will be enough in any case for a 6 month operation? Or perhaps is this the mysterious RF generator which helps regulating the reaction? As far as I remember Defkalion, they state that the Hyperions can not be regulated and they are also missing a RF generator. Rossi states in the interview (when asked about the RF generator) that the forces that basically should fight against us, and I mean the coulomb force, are used to help us. He after that again states that what theoretically should be to their disadvantages they have turned to their advantages. I (as an amateur) could interpret this as in order to decrease high temperatures we 'increase' the coulomb force (and therefore lowering the reaction) using the RF generator... ? But this is wild speculation from my side... Another point that I am currently thinking about is Rossis older statement regarding the fact that first generation Ecats should be upgradeable in order to produce electric heat. From the picture that I currently get, this is either a) an old statement and not valid anymore or b) upgrade the control software and buy a new cartridge which is capable of delivering enough heat The Energy Sticks or Cartridges are perhaps not sold (in the sense that the buyer owns the thing) but leased to the customer (because of the low price and the recycling back at the factory). Further, if I was an investor in Rossi, I would scream out loud because of the low prices which he is promoting... 500$, if he is first on the market with this revolutionary technology? I mean sure, this could be a simple device and easy to produce (and Rossi says, the technology must be for all), but then at least charge some more for an Energy Stick than just 10 bucks... I don't know of any historical example where a new and revolutionary technology hasn't been introduced without a proper price tag. He can start with a higher price and if there comes a similar product from a competitor, he can still lower the Ecat price... We will see, time will tell... If he really wants to mass-produce the Ecats he should really have solved all important problems else he will need lots and lots of lawyers... ;) Wolf P.S.: Another point from the interview: This effect has now been understood very well and theory will be presented soon, when talking about the H-Ni reaction What I learned from the interview. 10 kW home E-Cat is the size of a portable computer. Rossi calls the recharges Energy Sticks, fits with the ball point pen refill statement. Replacement is simple and can be done by anyone. No H2 canisters used. Reactor stores and recycles the H2. Only uses picograms of H2. Reactor control is via regulation of operational heat point. Fuel lasts 4,320 operational hours (180 days at 24 hours a day). E-Cat will signal when refill is needed. Customer can purchase several refills and keep them in stock. Cost of the refill to the customer will be $10 plus installation if needed. Will be available via internet sales. Home units will run in self sustain mode. 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected. 1st 1 MW plant is in modification. Should be operation in 1 - 2 months. 12 additional 1 MW plants are being built. 1 additional 1 MW plant has been sold to another customer. UL certification of the home E-Cat is in process. 2.7 to 2.9 kWs needed for 1 hour to start the home 10 kW E-Cat. Home E-Cat has only 1 reactor. Rossi claims the RFG helps the Coulomb barrier work with the reaction and not against it. First E-Cat factory is in Florida. Rossi is going to Massachusetts to further discuss building another E-Cat plant there. Home E-Cat production will start in the US fall. Sales will start in the US winter. Rossi is not interested in family investors as the business is still risky. Large hedge funds are welcome but only with a small % investment. Does plan to go public. Home E-Cat has a 30
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Just another point from the interview: Rossi has admitted that last year they had peaks even when the reactor should just produce about 120C°. This problem seems to have been resolved (because of NI), so no more peaks. Besides that NI is especially helping in the problem of getting the reactor up to 400C° in order to produce electricity. Somehow the customer of the first 1MW plant is helping in solving those problems, as it is not as trivial as just putting the Ecats in serial in order to reach higher temperatures. What I learned from the interview. 10 kW home E-Cat is the size of a portable computer. Rossi calls the recharges Energy Sticks, fits with the ball point pen refill statement. Replacement is simple and can be done by anyone. No H2 canisters used. Reactor stores and recycles the H2. Only uses picograms of H2. Reactor control is via regulation of operational heat point. Fuel lasts 4,320 operational hours (180 days at 24 hours a day). E-Cat will signal when refill is needed. Customer can purchase several refills and keep them in stock. Cost of the refill to the customer will be $10 plus installation if needed. Will be available via internet sales. Home units will run in self sustain mode. 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected. 1st 1 MW plant is in modification. Should be operation in 1 - 2 months. 12 additional 1 MW plants are being built. 1 additional 1 MW plant has been sold to another customer. UL certification of the home E-Cat is in process. 2.7 to 2.9 kWs needed for 1 hour to start the home 10 kW E-Cat. Home E-Cat has only 1 reactor. Rossi claims the RFG helps the Coulomb barrier work with the reaction and not against it. First E-Cat factory is in Florida. Rossi is going to Massachusetts to further discuss building another E-Cat plant there. Home E-Cat production will start in the US fall. Sales will start in the US winter. Rossi is not interested in family investors as the business is still risky. Large hedge funds are welcome but only with a small % investment. Does plan to go public. Home E-Cat has a 30 year expected life. Customer price between $400 to $500 for a home E-Cat 10 kW thermal unit. AG On 1/15/2012 10:29 AM, Wolf Fischer wrote: Hi there, Rossi was just on the Smart Scarecrow Show. There were some new information / clarification (although I can't remember them all; the information below should be correct however I sometimes had problems understanding Rossi because of a pretty low audio quality and me not being a native English speaker): 1. He sold another 1MW reactor (in addition to the 13 which have already been sold), but many potential customers are in line... 2. Production should start in autumn, distribution in winter (if everything works out as planned) 3. He wants to sell one million Ecats next year (this is what they are aiming for in a complete year regarding production) 4. Price of the Home Ecat is down to 500$ 5. Ecat is thought for heating the home, not for heating the water for showering etc. 6. Refueling the Ecat is done by replacing a cartridge. This cartridge will cost around 10$ and will then be sent back to a factory where it will be recycled. 7. The testing of the Ecat through the University of Bologna is currently not at the top of his priority list (there is currently the engineering of the production facilities) but he said something about starting with this next month 8. I wanted to know something about the stability of the reactor (I was referring to the uptime of the reactor, however Sterling shortened the question). According to Rossi, especially the temperature output was stabilized with the help of NI (at least this is what I understood). 9. On patenting - his lawyers are working on that. 10. Regarding the radio frequency generator: He didn't want to reveal anything. He compared this to Martial Arts and said something about that it is important for overcoming the coulomb barrier. 11. If I understood him correctly (If!), while explaining the working mechanism of the reactor core, he said that in the reaction gamma rays will be emitted, then hit a lead shielding which then will heat up and therefore heat the water. 12. The first question regarding the first customer was (of course) not answered because of an NDA This is what I did just remember from 1:30h... There will surely be a transcript available soon. Wolf
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Wolf, Heard you got a question into the program. Well down. I think Rossi is dead right on the pricing structure. This way he will make it very difficult for another FPE device to get into HIS market. If he sells at a higher price then there is enough fat to allow another competitor to recover their costs. Rossi has the high ground and will ensure no one will overtake his position. By the time others get their hands on his product and reverse engineering them, he will have recovered ALL his costs and can drop his price even further, while still making a very nice profit. If I was a Rossi shareholder I would be very pleased with his approach. He plays to be the last and only man standing. On the Energy Stick I see this as a dual screw in action, which initially seals the stick and then opens it to the internal H2 supply that is probably in hydride storage. It would be VERY low cost to manufacture. I really doubt there is a profit in recycling them other than in the publicity that they are recycled. As for the RFG, yes apparently it is used to control the reaction once the external heater is switched off. As Rossi says, it enables the Coulomb force to work with the reaction as in Martial Arts where you use the opponents strength against him. Here we see a differing between Rossi and DFG. DFG use multiple small reactors (no RFG) that they apparently individually switch off and on to control output, while Rossi uses his RFG to control the output from a single reactor while it is running in self sustain mode. The RFG system seemed to work well during the earlier E-Cat self sustain mode tests but there was not a dynamically varying load being applied, so how capable it is in handling time varying loads is still to be seen. A simple way to do domestic hot water is to put a heat exchanger into the home hot water storage tank and then have a control system to regulate the amount of hot heat exchanger fluid that flows into the hot water storage tank's heat exchanger. Give me a 10 kW home E-Cat and I'll have it producing hot air into the home ducted system and hot Sanitary water as Rossi calls it in short order. Not many Aussie homes with hot water radiators, so we don't need that option here. Well maybe in Melbourne and Tasmania they will need it. Ha Ha cold southerners. AG On 1/15/2012 9:33 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: AG, Thanks for this much more detailed summary! I was being too tired when I wrote mine... Should have waited over night. Some thoughts of mine on the interview and Rossis statements: The thing which interests me (also in the context of the probable quiescence problem as mentioned by Jones Beene) is the reactor control via regulation of operational heat point. How could he do this? He needs a way of a) increasing as well as b) decreasing the reactor temperature. Increasing is simple: Power the heat resistance module. But as soon as the reaction starts, how can he cool it down? From what I know about the reactor, there is the possibility of regulating the amount and pressure of H. However (as this seems to be a cartridge) there must be some way of releasing and again storing the H. What kind of cheap, reliable and fast mechanic would allow to add H to the reactor and, if the heat is too high, release some of the H (which, I think, must be again stored somewhere)? Or could he just deliver the cartridge with so much H that it will be enough in any case for a 6 month operation? Or perhaps is this the mysterious RF generator which helps regulating the reaction? As far as I remember Defkalion, they state that the Hyperions can not be regulated and they are also missing a RF generator. Rossi states in the interview (when asked about the RF generator) that the forces that basically should fight against us, and I mean the coulomb force, are used to help us. He after that again states that what theoretically should be to their disadvantages they have turned to their advantages. I (as an amateur) could interpret this as in order to decrease high temperatures we 'increase' the coulomb force (and therefore lowering the reaction) using the RF generator... ? But this is wild speculation from my side... Another point that I am currently thinking about is Rossis older statement regarding the fact that first generation Ecats should be upgradeable in order to produce electric heat. From the picture that I currently get, this is either a) an old statement and not valid anymore or b) upgrade the control software and buy a new cartridge which is capable of delivering enough heat The Energy Sticks or Cartridges are perhaps not sold (in the sense that the buyer owns the thing) but leased to the customer (because of the low price and the recycling back at the factory). Further, if I was an investor in Rossi, I would scream out loud because of the low prices which he is promoting... 500$, if he is first on the market with this revolutionary
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Wolf, With a reactor temp around 600 deg C and the coolant at 120 deg C there is a wide operational margin. As the coolant temp get to 450 deg C it is only 150 deg C below the reactor temp. A lot less fat to play with. I would speculate there is a much higher chance of a runaway and Ni powder meltdown at 450 deg C. Can't wait to get my hands on a unit and study the dynamics of the energy release / control system even if the home E-Cat systems can't generate steam with a high enough temperature to generate electricity. Never did like the Carnot cycle. Physics is so.limiting. I do wonder what would happen if I put 2 or more of the home units in series? AG On 1/15/2012 9:42 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: Just another point from the interview: Rossi has admitted that last year they had peaks even when the reactor should just produce about 120C°. This problem seems to have been resolved (because of NI), so no more peaks. Besides that NI is especially helping in the problem of getting the reactor up to 400C° in order to produce electricity. Somehow the customer of the first 1MW plant is helping in solving those problems, as it is not as trivial as just putting the Ecats in serial in order to reach higher temperatures.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
O.K Rossi says he will star to deliver domestic E-cats in September or after it. The 1,000,000 Ecats will be very cheap because robots will make them. The factory is in Florida - perhaps somebody has seen it? Or is it hidden? If it is/will be the result of something called *investment *then the things seem to be a bit more complicated. The worldwide consume of such generators - as heaters and for retrofitting all the cars and trucks is around 1000,000,000 pieces; it will be rather difficult to practice dumping and competicide with this unique factory. Except if competition is formed by retarded individuals, unable to solve the problems. Once upon a time there was an invincible E-cat... Peter On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: Wolf, Heard you got a question into the program. Well down. I think Rossi is dead right on the pricing structure. This way he will make it very difficult for another FPE device to get into HIS market. If he sells at a higher price then there is enough fat to allow another competitor to recover their costs. Rossi has the high ground and will ensure no one will overtake his position. By the time others get their hands on his product and reverse engineering them, he will have recovered ALL his costs and can drop his price even further, while still making a very nice profit. If I was a Rossi shareholder I would be very pleased with his approach. He plays to be the last and only man standing. On the Energy Stick I see this as a dual screw in action, which initially seals the stick and then opens it to the internal H2 supply that is probably in hydride storage. It would be VERY low cost to manufacture. I really doubt there is a profit in recycling them other than in the publicity that they are recycled. As for the RFG, yes apparently it is used to control the reaction once the external heater is switched off. As Rossi says, it enables the Coulomb force to work with the reaction as in Martial Arts where you use the opponents strength against him. Here we see a differing between Rossi and DFG. DFG use multiple small reactors (no RFG) that they apparently individually switch off and on to control output, while Rossi uses his RFG to control the output from a single reactor while it is running in self sustain mode. The RFG system seemed to work well during the earlier E-Cat self sustain mode tests but there was not a dynamically varying load being applied, so how capable it is in handling time varying loads is still to be seen. A simple way to do domestic hot water is to put a heat exchanger into the home hot water storage tank and then have a control system to regulate the amount of hot heat exchanger fluid that flows into the hot water storage tank's heat exchanger. Give me a 10 kW home E-Cat and I'll have it producing hot air into the home ducted system and hot Sanitary water as Rossi calls it in short order. Not many Aussie homes with hot water radiators, so we don't need that option here. Well maybe in Melbourne and Tasmania they will need it. Ha Ha cold southerners. AG On 1/15/2012 9:33 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: AG, Thanks for this much more detailed summary! I was being too tired when I wrote mine... Should have waited over night. Some thoughts of mine on the interview and Rossis statements: The thing which interests me (also in the context of the probable quiescence problem as mentioned by Jones Beene) is the reactor control via regulation of operational heat point. How could he do this? He needs a way of a) increasing as well as b) decreasing the reactor temperature. Increasing is simple: Power the heat resistance module. But as soon as the reaction starts, how can he cool it down? From what I know about the reactor, there is the possibility of regulating the amount and pressure of H. However (as this seems to be a cartridge) there must be some way of releasing and again storing the H. What kind of cheap, reliable and fast mechanic would allow to add H to the reactor and, if the heat is too high, release some of the H (which, I think, must be again stored somewhere)? Or could he just deliver the cartridge with so much H that it will be enough in any case for a 6 month operation? Or perhaps is this the mysterious RF generator which helps regulating the reaction? As far as I remember Defkalion, they state that the Hyperions can not be regulated and they are also missing a RF generator. Rossi states in the interview (when asked about the RF generator) that the forces that basically should fight against us, and I mean the coulomb force, are used to help us. He after that again states that what theoretically should be to their disadvantages they have turned to their advantages. I (as an amateur) could interpret this as in order to decrease high temperatures we 'increase' the coulomb force (and therefore lowering the reaction) using the RF generator... ? But this
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
On 12-01-14 09:40 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com mailto:sa...@pobox.com wrote:
These prices are just plain silly.
He's going to manufacture furnaces for the home for $500 each.
Sure he is, like I really believe that...
On the contrary, it is quite believable. The device is only 10 kW,
which is not enough to heat an entire house. It sounds like a
stand-alone device, like a large baseboard electric room heater, or a
kerosene heater.
OK, that's a good point. For a stand alone space heater the price
makes sense.
I was picturing a fixed installation furnace that's hooked into the
heating ducts or steam pipes of the house, and they start at about $650
and go up ('way up) from there.
A 240 V 5 kW baseboard heater costs $250, so that's right at the same
price point. 12 kW kerosene heaters cost $150 to $250.
A small gas furnace designed for central heating, with remote
thermostatic controls and whatnot costs $800 to $1000.
- Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
by the way Rossi's remark that the device can only do house heating, is not so true. with hot water storage like we have for electric water heater, heating 150litter at 60C when electricity is at night price, it could be simple to use e-cat, and even more easy, because you don't have to wait for night to reheat water. you can do the same for house heating, either with (very) hot water, or like it is done today with very heavy radiators that you charge long, then let warm the room. they are expensive but sold as electric heater to save cash by using night electricity
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
With air as coolant in the 10 KW space heater, the suggested narrow range of useful reactor temps is more easily achieved - compared to water or heat transfer fluid. The mechanics of moving air are simpler, as is the transfer of heat to the air - compared to liquids. Sounds like the 2.6KW element heats until temp and reaction achieved, then the fan starts and electric heater element stops, fan air holding reactor at proper temps. - Original Message - From: Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 5:42 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show Wolf, With a reactor temp around 600 deg C and the coolant at 120 deg C there is a wide operational margin. As the coolant temp get to 450 deg C it is only 150 deg C below the reactor temp. A lot less fat to play with. I would speculate there is a much higher chance of a runaway and Ni powder meltdown at 450 deg C. Can't wait to get my hands on a unit and study the dynamics of the energy release / control system even if the home E-Cat systems can't generate steam with a high enough temperature to generate electricity. Never did like the Carnot cycle. Physics is so.limiting. I do wonder what would happen if I put 2 or more of the home units in series? AG On 1/15/2012 9:42 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: Just another point from the interview: Rossi has admitted that last year they had peaks even when the reactor should just produce about 120C°. This problem seems to have been resolved (because of NI), so no more peaks. Besides that NI is especially helping in the problem of getting the reactor up to 400C° in order to produce electricity. Somehow the customer of the first 1MW plant is helping in solving those problems, as it is not as trivial as just putting the Ecats in serial in order to reach higher temperatures.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected. Then why is he still alive - and how can he possibly claim to put serious effort in developing home units when from that factor alone it is abundantly clear that none of this technology will ever run anywhere that somebody calls home?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
if shielded in his lead replaceable cartridge, would that make it acceptable to UL, etc? There is some radiation from smoke detectors now. - Original Message - From: Yamali Yamali To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected. Then why is he still alive - and how can he possibly claim to put serious effort in developing home units when from that factor alone it is abundantly clear that none of this technology will ever run anywhere that somebody calls home?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Heck --- At $500 + $20/year I'm going to increase my order to FOUR units. It's going to be cheaper to put one in each corner of the house than to snake any kind of HVAC line through it. (Other than electricity ... I mean standard air ducts, mini air ducts or water). My house is weird it's on a slab foundation, so I can't go UNDER, and it's a big house built over a little house, encapsulating the original roof () so it's hard to go OVER. Last I heard, Rossi was still saying you need a WATER line to the eCat. I hope that's changed. - Original Message - Wolf, Heard you got a question into the program. Well down. I think Rossi is dead right on the pricing structure. This way he will make it very difficult for another FPE device to get into HIS market. If he sells at a higher price then there is enough fat to allow another competitor to recover their costs. Rossi has the high ground and will ensure no one will overtake his position.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: Last I heard, Rossi was still saying you need a WATER line to the eCat. I hope that's changed. If it hasn't, I'm sure it will. All you have to do to hear just about any claim from Rossi is to wait a bit.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Mary, have you ever actually worked in any organization where design of any kind was done? Plans are nearly complete, then somebody comes up with a bright idea and they are scrapped in the blink of an eye. I'm supposed to complain because the price has gone down 10-fold? The only unusual thing that Rossi has done is talk openly about his plans .. and changes in plans. In that respect he's very similar to Jim Jannard at Red Cameras http://www.red.com/ -- or see his forum at http://www.reduser.net/forum/forum.php where he has done a similar David v Goliath in the area of movie cameras. Motto: Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates... We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude. - Original Message - On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: Last I heard, Rossi was still saying you need a WATER line to the eCat. I hope that's changed. If it hasn't, I'm sure it will. All you have to do to hear just about any claim from Rossi is to wait a bit.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Mary, aren't you getting tired of repeating yourself all the time? Wolf Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com schrieb: On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Alan Fletcher wrote: Last I heard, Rossi was still saying you need a WATER line to the eCat. I hope that's changed. If it hasn't, I'm sure it will. All you have to do to hear just about any claim from Rossi is to wait a bit.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: Mary, have you ever actually worked in any organization where design of any kind was done? Yes. I've done considerable design work on scientific instrumentation myself. I've also been involved in design of sales brochures and manuals. I'm supposed to complain because the price has gone down 10-fold? No but you can be alert to inconsistencies in the overall scheme of things-- inconsistencies which suggest the possibility that Rossi may not be telling the truth. | On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Wolf Fischer wolffisc...@gmx.de wrote: | Mary, aren't you getting tired of repeating yourself all the time? Like I've said to Mark, I don't repeat myself to hear myself speak. I respond to what others write which I perceive requires a good sense response. Your beef isn't with me. It's with those who write again and again as if they believe Rossi is really selling megawatt plants by the dozen, and that he will sell a million table top fusion reactors to anyone who wants one within a year. Read Zawodny's recent statement as cited by Aussie Guy. That's pretty much my view. He makes a lot of sense the second time around.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Wolf sez: Mary, aren't you getting tired of repeating yourself all the time? Oh for heaven's sake, Wolf. Surely you know the answer to that. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Mary, To be fair to both sides, I do note Zawodny has not seen a Rossi reactor and is a competitor. So his statements do nothing to dampen Rossi's claims. Like all scientists, he is saying it needs more money to be thrown at it / him. Of course it does. Rossi is at the Model T stage. Just starting to make the world's first mass produced FPE device. When a billion or so has been spent on further research, we will see FPE devices in everything that uses any form of power. The devices will directly generate electricity or heat or both depending on what you need. Transmutation of elements via the FPE may replace mining. AG On 1/16/2012 11:54 AM, Mary Yugo wrote: Read Zawodny's recent statement as cited by Aussie Guy. That's pretty much my view. He makes a lot of sense the second time around.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
aha ...yeah. by the way, imagine defkalion's offices today. I imagine some engineer won't sleep today. 2012/1/16 Alan Fletcher a...@well.com Mary, have you ever actually worked in any organization where design of any kind was done? Plans are nearly complete, then somebody comes up with a bright idea and they are scrapped in the blink of an eye.
RE: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Aussie Guy summarizing Rossi's interview... 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected 180 degs relative to what? -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Mark, Rossi claimed, in the latest interview, two 511 keV gammas, going in opposite directions, were produced and had been measured as a result of electron–positron annihilation inside the E-Cat reactor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron%E2%80%93positron_annihilation AG On 1/16/2012 6:08 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: Aussie Guy summarizing Rossi's interview... 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected 180 degs relative to what? -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
On 12-01-14 06:59 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: Hi there, Rossi was just on the Smart Scarecrow Show. There were some new information / clarification ... 4. Price of the Home Ecat is down to 500$ 5. Ecat is thought for heating the home, not for heating the water for showering etc. 6. Refueling the Ecat is done by replacing a cartridge. This cartridge will cost around 10$ and will then be sent back to a factory where it will be recycled. ... These prices are just plain silly. He's going to manufacture furnaces for the home for $500 each. Sure he is, like I really believe that... The heat-generating mechanism in this thing is certainly at least as complex (and expensive to manufacture) as a simple gas burner (which is just a few parallel pipes with holes drilled in them). So, the eCat home furnace should be at least as expensive as a natural gas fired furnace. And you sure can't buy a gas furnace for $500, any more than you can buy a replacement printer cartridge for $10. (Maybe he's using some funny kind of dollars for his price quotes?)
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
What I learned from the interview. 10 kW home E-Cat is the size of a portable computer. Rossi calls the recharges Energy Sticks, fits with the ball point pen refill statement. Replacement is simple and can be done by anyone. No H2 canisters used. Reactor stores and recycles the H2. Only uses picograms of H2. Reactor control is via regulation of operational heat point. Fuel lasts 4,320 operational hours (180 days at 24 hours a day). E-Cat will signal when refill is needed. Customer can purchase several refills and keep them in stock. Cost of the refill to the customer will be $10 plus installation if needed. Will be available via internet sales. Home units will run in self sustain mode. 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected. 1st 1 MW plant is in modification. Should be operation in 1 - 2 months. 12 additional 1 MW plants are being built. 1 additional 1 MW plant has been sold to another customer. UL certification of the home E-Cat is in process. 2.7 to 2.9 kWs needed for 1 hour to start the home 10 kW E-Cat. Home E-Cat has only 1 reactor. Rossi claims the RFG helps the Coulomb barrier work with the reaction and not against it. First E-Cat factory is in Florida. Rossi is going to Massachusetts to further discuss building another E-Cat plant there. Home E-Cat production will start in the US fall. Sales will start in the US winter. Rossi is not interested in family investors as the business is still risky. Large hedge funds are welcome but only with a small % investment. Does plan to go public. Home E-Cat has a 30 year expected life. Customer price between $400 to $500 for a home E-Cat 10 kW thermal unit. AG On 1/15/2012 10:29 AM, Wolf Fischer wrote: Hi there, Rossi was just on the Smart Scarecrow Show. There were some new information / clarification (although I can't remember them all; the information below should be correct however I sometimes had problems understanding Rossi because of a pretty low audio quality and me not being a native English speaker): 1. He sold another 1MW reactor (in addition to the 13 which have already been sold), but many potential customers are in line... 2. Production should start in autumn, distribution in winter (if everything works out as planned) 3. He wants to sell one million Ecats next year (this is what they are aiming for in a complete year regarding production) 4. Price of the Home Ecat is down to 500$ 5. Ecat is thought for heating the home, not for heating the water for showering etc. 6. Refueling the Ecat is done by replacing a cartridge. This cartridge will cost around 10$ and will then be sent back to a factory where it will be recycled. 7. The testing of the Ecat through the University of Bologna is currently not at the top of his priority list (there is currently the engineering of the production facilities) but he said something about starting with this next month 8. I wanted to know something about the stability of the reactor (I was referring to the uptime of the reactor, however Sterling shortened the question). According to Rossi, especially the temperature output was stabilized with the help of NI (at least this is what I understood). 9. On patenting - his lawyers are working on that. 10. Regarding the radio frequency generator: He didn't want to reveal anything. He compared this to Martial Arts and said something about that it is important for overcoming the coulomb barrier. 11. If I understood him correctly (If!), while explaining the working mechanism of the reactor core, he said that in the reaction gamma rays will be emitted, then hit a lead shielding which then will heat up and therefore heat the water. 12. The first question regarding the first customer was (of course) not answered because of an NDA This is what I did just remember from 1:30h... There will surely be a transcript available soon. Wolf
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: What I learned from the interview. 10 kW home E-Cat is the size of a portable computer.SNIP Just curious -- you believe all that? Some of that? None of that?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: These prices are just plain silly. He's going to manufacture furnaces for the home for $500 each. Sure he is, like I really believe that... On the contrary, it is quite believable. The device is only 10 kW, which is not enough to heat an entire house. It sounds like a stand-alone device, like a large baseboard electric room heater, or a kerosene heater. A 240 V 5 kW baseboard heater costs $250, so that's right at the same price point. 12 kW kerosene heaters cost $150 to $250. A small gas furnace designed for central heating, with remote thermostatic controls and whatnot costs $800 to $1000. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
I wrote: He's going to manufacture furnaces for the home for $500 each. Sure he is, like I really believe that... On the contrary, it is quite believable. The device is only 10 kW, which is not enough to heat an entire house. . . . I meant the pricing is believable. The price points are reasonable. Some people may have trouble believing that it works at all, since it is cold fusion powered. Some people may doubt that he can make one cheap. I wouldn't know about that. Apart from those considerations, there is no reason why a stand-alone 10 kW device should not cost around $500. The cold fusion cell is not expensive. The rest of the machine, including the metal cabinet, the controls, the thermostat, wiring and whatnot should not be much more expensive than the 5 kW electric baseboard heater at Lowe's. Of course the machine saves a terrific amount of money over the long term because it uses much less electricity, and no gas or kerosene. It could be priced higher and still sell. However, I think that when you are breaking into an existing market with a revolutionary technology that people are not familiar with, it is better to start off with the lowest price you can. Based on the price points of the competing minicomputers, the Apple and IBM personal computers could have been sold at much higher prices. But sales would have been anemic. They would have sold only to the existing minicomputer market, which was small. It was better to undercut them, drive them out of business quickly, and at the same time attract droves of new customers. A $500 eCat stand alone heater might be a good deal even if you price it at $2000, given the lifetime savings from reduced electric power consumption. But not many people would buy it. People who can afford $2000 for a small heater are so wealthy they don't care about the money they save. A few wealthy people with isolated log cabins might buy one. The others would just go on using firewood, which saves as much energy as an eCat. (You only pay for the gasoline to cut the wood, so overall energy savings are about the same as with an eCat.) However, when you price it at $500, suddenly you have millions of potential customers. The savings are huge, and the cost is close enough to an impulse purchase, for something like a decked out backyard grill or a fancy push lawnmower. People who have perfectly good central heating will say: Heck, why not? It pays for itself the first year. All in all, from the marketing point of view, I would say this is the perfect starting product at just the right price. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Jed, I agree. I did once design embedded control systems. The cost to Rossi would be around $10, especially in the 1m unit pricing. Electronics today is done for almost nothing. Retail price can however be 1,000s of time higher, especially if you must buy that failed controller from a single source. I'm starting to form a mental picture of the home E-Cat, especially after Rossi called the replaceable fuel module a Energy Stick and said replacing them was not replacing the ink cartridge in a ball point pen. What I also found interesting was Rossi saying the E-Cat only used picograms of H2 and that the home E-Cat had a system to recycle the H2 so there were no H2 cartridges to replace. Then there was the bit that the RFG caused the Coulomb barrier to work for and not against the reaction. Here I note DFG claim not to use a RFG. AG On 1/15/2012 1:10 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com mailto:sa...@pobox.com wrote: These prices are just plain silly. He's going to manufacture furnaces for the home for $500 each. Sure he is, like I really believe that... On the contrary, it is quite believable. The device is only 10 kW, which is not enough to heat an entire house. It sounds like a stand-alone device, like a large baseboard electric room heater, or a kerosene heater. A 240 V 5 kW baseboard heater costs $250, so that's right at the same price point. 12 kW kerosene heaters cost $150 to $250. A small gas furnace designed for central heating, with remote thermostatic controls and whatnot costs $800 to $1000. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Mary, From what I know, there was nothing said that seemed to be out of place. Rossi's earlier Door Knob copper reactor could reach the 10 - 20 kW power level. It was a VERY simple design. If that is what is at the heart of the home E-Cat, Rossi will make a fortune selling 10 kW units for $400 to $500 each. AG On 1/15/2012 1:04 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: What I learned from the interview. 10 kW home E-Cat is the size of a portable computer.SNIP Just curious -- you believe all that? Some of that? None of that?
