We dont blame a life saver for attempting to rescue and resuscitate a
person who is drowning
At the end of a community groups life its the very people we want to step
up are the ones who end up in the positions of responsibility as they
endeavor to save that which has great significance to them.
There is a flaw in the assumption that the current responsible person of
the chapter is the same person who was the recipient.
Example: WMAu applies for a grant to run a project in September that
project is finished but before I've written up a report I lose my seat on
the committee. If I choose t
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Gerard Meijssen
wrote:
> Hoi,
> When individuals are discredited in this way, your option, you are judging
> these people. That is in my opinion a mistake. You may judge a situation
> and determine because of what you consider your responsibility to either
> accep
Hi Craig,
To clarify, when we talk about resolving a compliance issue, what we mean
-- in most cases -- is producing the reports, records, or similar artifacts
that were required by a particular legal agreement, rather than effecting a
change in the status of the affected group. For example, supp
Hi Kirill,
On 26 April 2017 at 02:31, Kirill Lokshin wrote:
>
> Having said that, there are certain issues that can prevent a smooth
> transition from a chapter to a user group. In particular, any individuals
> considered to have personal responsibility for an outstanding compliance
> issue --
Hi Kirill,
Nowhere in my last three e-mails did I imply that the process was arbitrary or
unfair. I have expressed in both my correspondence to this list AND to my
private correspondence with the parties involved that it is your prerogative to
determine our status or not. That’s fine and dand
Hoi,
When individuals are discredited in this way, your option, you are judging
these people. That is in my opinion a mistake. You may judge a situation
and determine because of what you consider your responsibility to either
accept or no longer accept the existence of a chapter, whatever entity.
W
For a long time, we saw a few chapters with too little or no activity in
the movement and their recognition was kept in spite of it. I saw that and
it bothered me a little but not so much so I didn't say something about it.
Last year, AffCom started to do what it have to be done (better late than
n
User groups are, indeed, a more "light-weight" model of affiliation, with
significantly fewer compliance requirements -- at least for groups which
are unincorporated and do not receive significant grants -- and the
Affiliations Committee has, in the past, encouraged chapters struggling
with reporti
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Gnangarra wrote:
>
> I look at the current processes around affiliates thats made it a longer
> journey for any group to become a chapter, but once there it appears rather
> to not take that way in reverse. Maybe the process could be reconfigured
> to enable a s
Running a "user group" is much less bureaucratic overhead. Can WMPH not
just rejoin the movement as that? When the capacity to return to chapter
status develops the group can than apply for chapter status.
James
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 5:17 AM, Josh Lim wrote:
> First of all, I'm not blaming an
Thank you Kirill that is a lot clearer and answers sufficiently most of my
concerns.
To me this process and these announcements(Philippines and Hong Kong) have
been distasteful in the harshness of the language being used, while such
formal language is necessary and appropriate for the official leg
Josh,
We are, as a movement, remarkably forgiving of things like missed
deadlines, incomplete reports, and other compliance issues that, in a
different environment, might be regarded with rather more severity. This
is, I think, as it should be; we are, for the most part, volunteers --
often volun
First of all, I'm not blaming anyone. I'm merely stating what is our position:
that is, that we've been dealing with our issues to the best of our ability.
That said, I'm sorry, but I will not tolerate being told that I am "misleading"
the movement by telling people what we've done to get ourse
munication between September 2016 and March 1, 2017?
Sent from my HTC
- Reply message -
From: "Gnangarra"
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
Cc: "Wikimedia Movement Affiliates discussion list"
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Chapter De-Recognition: Wikimedi
Hello Gnangarra,
I joined AffCom in 2015, at that time the issue with Wikimedia
Philippines was already on the table. The AffCom and the WMF had tried
two years to get a settlement without a de-recognition with them.
Meanwhile it is 2017, I don't believe Josh could resolve the problem in
the
In the original email from Josh he raises some points about still working
to address the issues in the five hours between his email and your response
which have occurred between 9pm and 2am in San Francisco it appears that it
could not be possible for the WMF to have considered and refuted what was
I think that the biggest misunderstanding is in the acronym because in the
page the Phil-community uses the acronym of WMPH which seems more connected
to WM Philippines instead of PH-WC.
Kind regards
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Maor Malul wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The wikimedians from the Phill
Thanks Ting,
It was indeed a hard decision, but like you say, disclosing details may
avoid rumours and drama, which probably cause more damage to the
movement. We'll raise your observation with the WMF and see if that can
implemented. Anyway, I also hope no more affiliates have to be
de-recog
Hello,
The wikimedians from the Phillippines that attended the WMCON are /not
/members of WMPH but of PhilWiki Community [1], which is a completely
different Wikimedia affiliate.
If you read the original e-mail sent, the governance issues started to
appear in 2014, and the chapter was notifi
It appears to me as this discussion has caused some confusion and it should
be clarified as I know that the Philippines had two members at the recent
Wikimedia Conference in Berlin arent there reporting requirements attached
to eligibility requirements. They are also part of the group organising th
Hello dear all,
we try, and some times try very very hard to be nice and to protect
other people. But the world is some times not nice and some times really
really bad things happen. Just for the next time (and there will be next
times coming), my suggestion for the WMF and also for other comm
Hello Josh,
The WMF and the AffCom have decided not to disclose further details of
the very serious governance issues in order not to hurt the movement and
the reputation of the people involved. Please, avoid misleading and
adding drama to this situation -which is already difficult, and damage
Hey Josh
Thanks for sharing the other side of the issue. If you were actively
working towards compliance agree having the chapter status pulled is
concerning. Government bureaucracy is horribly slow. Anything we as the
wider movement can do to help? Has affcom given you guidance regarding how
to r
Hi James,
Towards the end of the process, and I will admit I was guilty of this as well,
we have been so demotivated by the process that we felt it wasn’t worth it to
continue communicating with the Affiliations Committee further.
Over the last year, we had been working to return to compliance.
Hey Josh
So where was the missed communication? Were there extenuating circumstances
regarding why Wikimedia Philippines was not able to produce the required
documents? Was active communication between Wikimedia Philippines and
affcom ongoing?
James
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Josh Lim wro
If you folks seriously think that we weren’t being “accountable”, then I have
serious doubts about how this process will remain sustainable.
I’m sorry, but this process has been exceedingly demotivating for everyone
involved. I’ve been trying to keep myself composed throughout the entire
proce
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