Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 6:46 AM, Itzik - Wikimedia Israel < it...@wikimedia.org.il> wrote: > On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 3:06 AM, Samuel Klein wrote: > > > Itzik, what were the equivalent budgets for Haifa? From the post-mortem > on > > Meta it looks like a $280K budget, and a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 3:06 AM, Samuel Klein wrote: > Itzik, what were the equivalent budgets for Haifa? From the post-mortem on > Meta it looks like a $280K budget, and a $100K WMF grant. This included > paying for the event coordinator, which is now budgeted separately.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Agreeing with Rich: We actually have funds available for one international meting a year, plus one in each region, and to give scholarships covering the full cost to every committed WPedian who asks for them. ( On the whole I think most people would, from any region, thou some might not ask for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

It's all very well to assume that certain demographics are wealthy. But it is simply a stereotype. Wikipedians I know personally from the "privileged" demographics vary from those who are well off through to those who are saddled with substantial debt and zero income. But really the question

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

I'd like to second Lodewijk's suggestion of something more like Wikicamp, though I don't think that necessarily means it has be much smaller. I wonder how the economics of something like the Wikimedia Armenia experience would expand to a larger, more international participation. Personally, it

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Lodewijk wrote: > Hi Ellie, > > with donations, i was referring to the item on the linked financial report. > Does it indeed include sponsorships? > I've corrected-- it should just be sponsorships. Ellie > > Lodewijk > > On Fri,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

An experiment I'd be more than willing to think about, is to have a 'real wikimania' every two years, and a more 'light edition' the other year (with less aimed attendance, less WMF participation, maybe less subsidised, a cheaper location, more like a wikicamp). But, to look at that in a proper

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Hoi, Again, we have not "proven" in any way that it has to be cheap. When cheap comes at the prize of losing what is precious. When we choose to ignore the cost of WMF travel of personnel, we effectively cook the books because the need for WMF inclusion is high. It is one of the aspects that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Hi Ellie, with donations, i was referring to the item on the linked financial report. Does it indeed include sponsorships? Lodewijk On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Ellie Young wrote: > On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Lodewijk > wrote: > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Samuel Klein wrote: > Chris & Ellie: I don't think I would include 'WMF Travel/Accomodation' or > general Wikimedia PR in the Wikimania overhead. > It usually isn't but this was prepared in response to people in earlier threads wanting to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Lodewijk wrote: > Thanks, it is a step in the right direction indeed. Although a bit more > breakdown would be helpful, I am working on that > I'm guessing this also highly fluctuates year > by year. > Some observations: >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

kimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania > > Chris & Ellie: I don't think I would include 'WMF Travel/Accomodation' or > general Wikimedia PR in the Wikimania overhead. > * Staff have a budget for travel to events of all kin

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Chris & Ellie: I don't think I would include 'WMF Travel/Accomodation' or general Wikimedia PR in the Wikimania overhead. * Staff have a budget for travel to events of all kinds; the Board has a budget for its meetings wherever they are held; and similarly the few committees that meet in person

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

On 2016-02-18 7:18 PM, Risker wrote: June-July-August is the most expensive period for just about everywhere in the world; March, April, September and October tend to be much less expensive in lodging, travel and direct conference costs. Maybe we need to rethink*when* we are holding Wikimania

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

I mostly agree with a lot of the thoughts here about whether or not it would be more cost effective to do one event or multiple events, at least organizationally. There are two things that cross my mind when we talk about this: First, maybe one of the bigger drivers of cost is the time of year

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

The first thing that happens when you split up something like Wikimania in multiple events is you multiple the cost of WMF attendance because they need to deliver the same messages multiple times, an alternative decision to restrict who goes where you run into the issue of regions being treated

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Thanks, it is a step in the right direction indeed. Although a bit more breakdown would be helpful, I'm guessing this also highly fluctuates year by year. Some observations: A huge amount of money goes into flying WMF around the world (321k resp. 383k), which doesn't even take into account (I'm

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

That's most helpful, thank you both. On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Pharos wrote: > Thanks, Ellie and Chris, this historical experience should be very helpful > for future discussions! > > Best, > Pharos > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Chris Schilling

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Thanks, Ellie and Chris, this historical experience should be very helpful for future discussions! Best, Pharos On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Chris Schilling wrote: > Hey folks, > > Ellie has put together a summarized budget including revenue and expenses > from

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Hey folks, Ellie has put together a summarized budget including revenue and expenses from Wikimania 2014 in London[1] and Wikimania 2015[2], which I've gone ahead and posted to the summary pages of these conferences on meta. Thanks, Chris [1]

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

There pure costs shouldn't be the main or only argument. What does the movement pay, for what? How are the goals of the movement served by Wikimania or other conventions? The better we understand that the better our conventions are. For example, for the programme of the Wikimedia Conference

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Rather, we should spend more, possibly several times as much. We need much wider participation, both for Wikimania and for regional conferences, and the only practical way to achieve that is to pay full expenses for all regular participants who want to attend. It should not be an elite event. The

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

GerardM, As much as I agree with you on many things related to Wikimania, your statement about en.wp and USA being “over subsidized” is off base. For the last few years I’ve held my tongue as American applicants get a fraction of 10% of all the funding for Wikimania scholarships. That’s because

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

If we want to talk about the cost of Wikimania it will be great if the WMF and the local team will share the costs. Until now Wikimania London didn't published anything: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014/Budget And also Mexico: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015/Budget

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

2016-02-10 6:06 GMT+01:00 Samuel Klein : > FUDCons Also it is hard to compare Wikimanias with FUDCons as it is a) much smaller (usually bo more than 200 attendees) b) divided by regions - for example in 2015 there were 3 FUDCons (Argentina, India, Spain) and 2 Flocks (NY and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

The US may be too geographically spread out to develop a robust chapter system. We have vibrant chapters in a few dense population areas. Wikimedia District of Columbia is particularly awesome. But for most US editors there isn't a critical mass of editors in some areas. Often we work with with

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Hi Andrew, *For the last few years I’ve held my tongue as American applicants get a > fraction of 10% of all the funding for Wikimania scholarships.* > Actually you are looking at the old numbers. Both Wikimanias 2015 and 2016 uses a new method of selection. Now, the Global North*[1] *has 25%

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

"We also do not have a strong chapter system" This has always puzzled me, because I am a firm believer in the chapter system, despite its faults and limitations. Isn't it time to address this for the more active areas of the USA? On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Andrew Lih

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Hoi, There is only one argument that I cannot refute about American money. It is American money that gets us the bulk of our funding. The one obvious reason is that the fund-raising is targeting the USA. When money is spend, it is spend predominantly in the USA and targeted for Wikipedia and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 6:06 AM, Samuel Klein wrote: > I found this the most interesting part of the recent IdeaLab discussion > about changing the Wikimania framework. > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Towards_a_New_Wikimania > > "*The total spend by WMF for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Béria L, Yes, I was heartened to see that the formula had changed in 2015. But the complexity of the algorithm made it hard to discern what the eventual impact and numbers were for US-based editors. If you have good stats on this, I’d appreciate a pointer. Again, I agree that Wikimania should

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Hi Wikimedians, The "chapter system" in the US and North America is a work in progress. In addition to the two full regional chapters (New York City - where I am, and Washington, DC), there are also usergroups for the New England, Cascadia/Northwest, and North Carolina Triangle regions, with

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

I just want to clarify something. I apologize in advance for being pedantic. In the US the term Latino is also applied to those of us who live in the United States who have cultural and ethnic ties to Latin America. Based on my reading of the selection process those Latinos would not be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Itzik writes: > If we want to talk about the cost of Wikimania it will be great if the WMF and the local team will share the costs. > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2014/Budget > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015/Budget > Maybe I missed something, but it's strange that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

February is a very busy month with record number of events planned through out the United States. Additionally, The Wiki Ed Foundation works with university based education programs including parts of the United States outside regions covered by the U.S. Chapters and User groups. So, although we

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

While everyone keeps looking at the cost thats not the question we should be asking, because even if the costs were reduced to 500,000, 100,00 or even 10,000 ​that doesnt reflect the value we get from the in person contacts, the global connections the sharing of experiences, learning of concepts,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

From a US perspective, even here in the global north we have plenty of students and middle-class participants for whom $1500 in travel, food and lodging plus 5 days away from work, family, or school amounts to a significant or impossible sacrifice. Perhaps someone could tell us the statistics for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Hoi, To quote a Wikipedia maxim .. "citation needed". It is one thing to say that something is costly and, it is. It is another to say that Wikimania is expensive. It is expensive when it does not provide a value relative to costs. When you compare with Red Hat, you talk about professional

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

Hoi, Pine with all due respect, the USA is not the problem and English Wikipedia has been overly subsidised, given way too much attention. Indeed having more people from the USA attend Wikimania is not a good value proposition. The USA and Britain is overrepresented as it is. Thanks, GerardM

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 2:28 AM, Itzik - Wikimedia Israel wrote: > If we want to talk about the cost of Wikimania it will be great if the WMF > and the local team will share the costs. > > Until now Wikimania London didn't published anything: >

[Wikimedia-l] Reducing the net cost of Wikimania

I found this the most interesting part of the recent IdeaLab discussion about changing the Wikimania framework. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Towards_a_New_Wikimania "*The total spend by WMF for Wikimania 2014 in London and 2015 in Mexico, including all travel,