Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband
As I write, is it 1:40 AM, I'm tired as heck, but have been mulling this question for days, and have finally taken the time to do this. First, to my self-motivated enemies who can't stand anything I say Nuts!, I'm right and I know it. Now, for the rest, who are interested in more than just shallow mockery, here's serious conversation on serious topics, and the excuse to dismiss me for those who can't bring themselves to be serious. Some comments on the strategy for opposing FCC intervention. As is highlighted below - and has been discussed at considerable length in other venues... The NBP, the regulation of internet services, and net neutrality all hinge upon a couple of rather firm anchors. As we know, the FCC lost in the courts when it attempted to simply re-write the intent of current law.The first anchor for implementation of anything is to surmount the law as it sits right now.Either by Congressional action, or by administratively bypassing it. The current administration has demonstrated in several other areas they are willing to coordinate completely bypassing the legislative process, and regulate via administrative rule. IE, agencies simply write new rules that force the intent of the administration, even if it conflicts with current law, or has no basis in law. There's considerable example and evidence of this, by the EPA and other agencies. It would be my estimate that this is the approach the FCC will try - and it is coordinated directly, but unofficially, from the White House. This approach has mixed support and resistance in Congress. Some of the Democrats would prefer this, rather than Congress taking up a controversial topic. However, it is legally iffy. And, there's a majority in Congress which is mostly Republicans and some Democrats who actually oppose the FCC attempting to simply rule by fiat. It's a turf thing, actually. Few in Congress are strongly supportive of enterprise, and the resistance is mostly about Congress objecting to the FCC usurping their role. Thus, it would seem to be a poor strategy to rely on Congressional efforts or even lobbying Congress to proactively act - though it should be done - to oppose the FCC, perhaps by proactive legislation, to block the FCC from doing any of this. It's a poor strategy to depend on it happening, but that happening would be probably the best possible outcome - assuming the law passed would protect our freedom to be in business and STAY unregulated. As I said above, there are some key pins on which this whole thing revolves, and it has been pointed out, that USF funding - and a re-write of that tax and spending is key.It's the carrot and stick approach. Not quite the traditional meaning, but the carrot used to get you closer or to agree, so you'll get close enough to beat with the stick. So, MONEY is the key.If there is no MONEY to buy your acceptance with, there is near universal industry opposition to regulation.In that situation, we could be political allies with, and benefit from the lobbying warchests of a wide array of players in the telecom and internet industries, as well as a wide array of both ideological and even some progressive institutions. As long as there is money on the table - as long as any administration or agency or even Congress has the means to buy off resistance - there is no reliable massive block of resistance. As was pointed out in other emails, an alliance with small and rural CLEC's and others is going to be shaky, because if the regulators put money on the table for them, they abandon the common defense and we're on our own. For that matter, WISPA's membership and even just the readership of this list is extremely and deeply divided. There are those who see the purpose of WISPA as one to lobby to repurpose or redirect the flow of that money to them.Yet, as pointed out later in the discussions on this list, that very funding means is going to be extremely anti-competitive, and result in near monopolies by area, region, etc.Support for USF funding to ISP's is 100% at cross purposes to the best interests of our industry's many individual members. WISPA has finally reached that point where it is no longer able to bridge this gap. The gap is wide enough, the fence tall enough, or whatever metaphor you wish to choose, so that the choice literally has to be made. WISPA leadership has attempted diplomatically to attempt to tread both paths, but now they diverge. Either WISPA advocates for a patently anti-competitive industry subsidy, or else it become against such subsidy altogether.There is no future point where this straddling again narrows and the leadership can advocate both for USF money subsidy and still claim to be for ALL WISP's, and for the interests of all us in a free and competitive market. At this point, since WISPA is representative of its members, it's time to
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem
Did you upgrade to 4.9 Did you run an earlier version with this router with this same configuration? Have you tried regressing to an earlier version? Did you post this issue to the MT forum? Greg On May 27, 2010, at 1:19 AM, Kevin Sullivan wrote: 4.9 - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem Also what firmware (sys routerboar pr)? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: What version of RouterOS are you running? Greg On May 26, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Kevin Sullivan wrote: I think I have found a legitimate bug. I'm running an RB1000 that we put in service about 2 weeks ago (it replaced another RB1000 that was having similar problems). Here is what is going on: Linux router A - [ether1] RB1000 [ether3] --- Linux router B The RB1000 above is connected to the two hosts shown. Each link A RB1000 B has latency ~1ms. We are not using any Mikrotik wireless. A and B both know that they can reach each other through the RB1000 (thanks to OSPF). A and B are Linux routers. When I ping B from A (traffic going through the RB1000), I get no response. When I log into B and tcpdump traffic, I can see icmp echo request packets coming in from A, and echo reply packets going out to A. Fine. I then log into the RB1000 and packet sniff ether1 and ether3. ether1 packet sniff shows icmp request packets coming in. ether3 shows icmp request packets going out, and icmp reply packets coming in. However, the replies are not going out ether1. BUT after several minutes, A starts seeing replies. 64 bytes from x.x.x.x: icmp_seq=1049 ttl=63 time=671216 ms 64 bytes from x.x.x.x: icmp_seq=1095 ttl=63 time=628217 ms 64 bytes from x.x.x.x: icmp_seq=1142 ttl=63 time=584217 ms 64 bytes from x.x.x.x: icmp_seq=1188 ttl=63 time=541218 ms 64 bytes from x.x.x.x: icmp_seq=1235 ttl=63 time=497234 ms the RB1000 has been queuing my ICMP packets for ~500 seconds!! I STOP pinging from A and packet sniff ether1 on the RB1000 again. It is STILL sending out queued ICMP replies from A, even though I am not sending requests anymore. Several minutes after I stop pinging from A, the RB1000 stops sending replies on ether1. Clients have been complaining for months about slow speeds passing traffic through this router. I've also noticed high CPU utilization, even when normal CPU hungry tasks were turned off (one mangle rule, no queues, no proxy, no DNS, etc). During the day, we see 70-80% CPU utilization. The previous router (same config) went to 100% utilization, which is why we replaced it. Regards, Kevin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Free Public WiFi
I like - FBI Surveillance Van #1 -- Original Message -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 22:20:05 -0400 I woudlnt know but some say it costs to get the good stuff. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Aren't the two synonymous? Greg On May 26, 2010, at 8:29 PM, RickG wrote: Try Free Porn and see how many connect! On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: For fun I name all the private wifi routers to an SSID of Virus. The attempts to connect have dropped considerably. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Free Public WiFi ...a little OT, but, after being party to all the free craziness of Earthlink, etc. just the title Free Public Wi-Fi makes me break out in hives... Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Steve Barnes Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Free Public WiFi I am embarrassed to ask here but I am going to anyway. I have some customers laptops that have been here lately with the Free Public WiFi ssid on them. I know that this is a Microsoft screw up on the Zero Wireless Connections. I have made the stations so that they can only connect to a AP in the future. But the Free Public WiFi SSID still shows up on the systems even when the Wireless card is turned off. I have removed all preferred SSIDs and still nothing. Any one know how to kill this out of a Win XP system. (without going to Linux) Steve Barnes RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] [WISPA Members] WISPA Regional Meeting Registration Site Updated
I have just taken the Registration page live for the WISPA Regional Meeting in St. Louis on July 21st and 22nd. I will update the show schedule as more details are known.http://wispaslrm.eventbrite.com http://wispaslrm.eventbrite.com I didn't realize I had post dated the Sales Start Date to June 1. I have now amended it so that sales start today. Thanks, Rick Harnish President WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org ___ WISPA Membership Mailing List --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Free Public WiFi
Now I would connect to that just to see what kind of a mess I could get into. (Probably using someone else's computer though) Steve Barnes RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Pierce Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Free Public WiFi I like - FBI Surveillance Van #1 -- Original Message -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 22:20:05 -0400 I woudlnt know but some say it costs to get the good stuff. On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: Aren't the two synonymous? Greg On May 26, 2010, at 8:29 PM, RickG wrote: Try Free Porn and see how many connect! On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: For fun I name all the private wifi routers to an SSID of Virus. The attempts to connect have dropped considerably. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Free Public WiFi ...a little OT, but, after being party to all the free craziness of Earthlink, etc. just the title Free Public Wi-Fi makes me break out in hives... Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Steve Barnes Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Free Public WiFi I am embarrassed to ask here but I am going to anyway. I have some customers laptops that have been here lately with the Free Public WiFi ssid on them. I know that this is a Microsoft screw up on the Zero Wireless Connections. I have made the stations so that they can only connect to a AP in the future. But the Free Public WiFi SSID still shows up on the systems even when the Wireless card is turned off. I have removed all preferred SSIDs and still nothing. Any one know how to kill this out of a Win XP system. (without going to Linux) Steve Barnes RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband
Mark, This is an interesting and well thought out proposal. Thank you for taking the time to post and for also not making it politically charged. It might be a good idea to create a condensed version of this proposal with simple bullet points. Politicians and other government officials have a short attention span so a Readers Digest version of this same idea would help in gathering interest and support for the concept. If they express serious interest, a more detailed description can be presented to them. Having to read your full description will get lost on those who skim ideas in the interest of saving time. A condensed version would also be easier to present to the proper WISPA committees to begin discussion. I know quite a few WISPA members do not read the general list in as much detail as they do other lists. I'd be willing to present your concept to the proper committees for consideration. Brian -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 5:55 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband As I write, is it 1:40 AM, I'm tired as heck, but have been mulling this question for days, and have finally taken the time to do this. First, to my self-motivated enemies who can't stand anything I say Nuts!, I'm right and I know it. Now, for the rest, who are interested in more than just shallow mockery, here's serious conversation on serious topics, and the excuse to dismiss me for those who can't bring themselves to be serious. Some comments on the strategy for opposing FCC intervention. As is highlighted below - and has been discussed at considerable length in other venues... The NBP, the regulation of internet services, and net neutrality all hinge upon a couple of rather firm anchors. As we know, the FCC lost in the courts when it attempted to simply re-write the intent of current law.The first anchor for implementation of anything is to surmount the law as it sits right now.Either by Congressional action, or by administratively bypassing it. The current administration has demonstrated in several other areas they are willing to coordinate completely bypassing the legislative process, and regulate via administrative rule. IE, agencies simply write new rules that force the intent of the administration, even if it conflicts with current law, or has no basis in law. There's considerable example and evidence of this, by the EPA and other agencies. It would be my estimate that this is the approach the FCC will try - and it is coordinated directly, but unofficially, from the White House. This approach has mixed support and resistance in Congress. Some of the Democrats would prefer this, rather than Congress taking up a controversial topic. However, it is legally iffy. And, there's a majority in Congress which is mostly Republicans and some Democrats who actually oppose the FCC attempting to simply rule by fiat. It's a turf thing, actually. Few in Congress are strongly supportive of enterprise, and the resistance is mostly about Congress objecting to the FCC usurping their role. Thus, it would seem to be a poor strategy to rely on Congressional efforts or even lobbying Congress to proactively act - though it should be done - to oppose the FCC, perhaps by proactive legislation, to block the FCC from doing any of this. It's a poor strategy to depend on it happening, but that happening would be probably the best possible outcome - assuming the law passed would protect our freedom to be in business and STAY unregulated. As I said above, there are some key pins on which this whole thing revolves, and it has been pointed out, that USF funding - and a re-write of that tax and spending is key.It's the carrot and stick approach. Not quite the traditional meaning, but the carrot used to get you closer or to agree, so you'll get close enough to beat with the stick. So, MONEY is the key.If there is no MONEY to buy your acceptance with, there is near universal industry opposition to regulation.In that situation, we could be political allies with, and benefit from the lobbying warchests of a wide array of players in the telecom and internet industries, as well as a wide array of both ideological and even some progressive institutions. As long as there is money on the table - as long as any administration or agency or even Congress has the means to buy off resistance - there is no reliable massive block of resistance. As was pointed out in other emails, an alliance with small and rural CLEC's and others is going to be shaky, because if the regulators put money on the table for them, they abandon the common defense and we're on our own. For that matter, WISPA's membership and even just the readership of this list is extremely and deeply divided. There are those who see
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem
Auto neg can cause problems. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: No, it's a gig link, set to auto neg. Kevin - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem I havent seen that on my RB1000. Do you have the ports locked down to a set rate? On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: I think I have found a legitimate bug. I'm running an RB1000 that we put in service about 2 weeks ago (it replaced another RB1000 that was having similar problems). Here is what is going on: Linux router A - [ether1] RB1000 [ether3] --- Linux router B The RB1000 above is connected to the two hosts shown. Each link A RB1000 B has latency ~1ms. We are not using any Mikrotik wireless. A and B both know that they can reach each other through the RB1000 (thanks to OSPF). A and B are Linux routers. When I ping B from A (traffic going through the RB1000), I get no response. When I log into B and tcpdump traffic, I can see icmp echo request packets coming in from A, and echo reply packets going out to A. Fine. I then log into the RB1000 and packet sniff ether1 and ether3. ether1 packet sniff shows icmp request packets coming in. ether3 shows icmp request packets going out, and icmp reply packets coming in. However, the replies are not going out ether1. BUT after several minutes, A starts seeing replies. 64 bytes from x.x.x.x: icmp_seq=1049 ttl=63 time=671216 ms 64 bytes from x.x.x.x: icmp_seq=1095 ttl=63 time=628217 ms 64 bytes from x.x.x.x: icmp_seq=1142 ttl=63 time=584217 ms 64 bytes from x.x.x.x: icmp_seq=1188 ttl=63 time=541218 ms 64 bytes from x.x.x.x: icmp_seq=1235 ttl=63 time=497234 ms the RB1000 has been queuing my ICMP packets for ~500 seconds!! I STOP pinging from A and packet sniff ether1 on the RB1000 again. It is STILL sending out queued ICMP replies from A, even though I am not sending requests anymore. Several minutes after I stop pinging from A, the RB1000 stops sending replies on ether1. Clients have been complaining for months about slow speeds passing traffic through this router. I've also noticed high CPU utilization, even when normal CPU hungry tasks were turned off (one mangle rule, no queues, no proxy, no DNS, etc). During the day, we see 70-80% CPU utilization. The previous router (same config) went to 100% utilization, which is why we replaced it. Regards, Kevin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem
On 5/27/2010 10:04 AM, RickG wrote: Auto neg can cause problems. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: No, it's a gig link, set to auto neg. snip auto-neg definitely the problem especially if non gig on other side. Lock both sides down Leon No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897 - Release Date: 05/26/10 02:25:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 04:55, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: [ snip: a lot of interesting ideas with which I personally disagree but they're still interesting ideas ] This idea recognizes and codifies that subsidy = threat of regulation and that free markets with a competitive environment do NOT need any regulation to provide workable services to consumers. Does WISPA have any mechanism in place for polling the membership, to see whether MDK's ideas really have the kind of support he thinks they do? I think the membership is large enough that it's not necessarily fair/wise to assume that nine board members can accurately assess these things. MDK: ever consider running for a spot on the board? That's one way to be sure WISPA is listening to your views. :) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
No laws against selling it. You just have to stay within the FCC power limits and regulations and you're smooth. LOS is cheap to use, no line of site is expensive but doable. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband SURVEY
Done Please take the survey. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XC5DF7F There are 10 questions on two pages. You must answer all statements with Agree, Undecided or Disagree to proceed. I would have liked to have asked whether the responders are a member or a non-member but we are only allowed 10 questions per survey and I didn't have room. Thanks, Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 04:55, MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: [ snip: a lot of interesting ideas with which I personally disagree but they're still interesting ideas ] This idea recognizes and codifies that subsidy = threat of regulation and that free markets with a competitive environment do NOT need any regulation to provide workable services to consumers. Does WISPA have any mechanism in place for polling the membership, to see whether MDK's ideas really have the kind of support he thinks they do? I think the membership is large enough that it's not necessarily fair/wise to assume that nine board members can accurately assess these things. MDK: ever consider running for a spot on the board? That's one way to be sure WISPA is listening to your views. :) David Smith MVN.net --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 08:56:53AM -0700, finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? Yes. You have to file a bunch of stuff to be Calea compliant. You also need to file a 477 with the FCC on a regular interval. In order to professionally install the radios we all use outdoors, you should be familar with the FCC part15 rules especially with regard to power output, interference, etc... If you get into VOIP, there are CPNI filings which are very serious not to skip. For working on a roof top, if there is a risk of falling, you may be required to have appropriately increased insurance and provide such proof to the building management. Even if you are self employed, there may be expectations on part of the building owner for you to obey OSHA safety guidelines working up there. Local codes may also require wiring and grounding to be done according to NEC, which means you should study that and/or hire an electrician for inspection/guidance. In an urban area, there is no simple answer for what works for NLOS. Depends on interference, construction materials, physics, etc... If you can't make more money than what you are doing, it's a negative effect on your present business activities. I have no idea what you can or should charge. If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Sheesh you guys, you're scaring him AND making fun of his name. Welcome to the club :) -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted. - Hugh Nibley WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband SURVEY
On 5/27/2010 12:13 PM, Rick Harnish wrote: Done Please take the survey. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XC5DF7F There are 10 questions on two pages. You must answer all statements with Agree, Undecided or Disagree to proceed. I would have liked to have asked whether the responders are a member or a non-member but we are only allowed 10 questions per survey and I didn't have room. T Hi RIck...can the grammar be improved? leon No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897 - Release Date: 05/26/10 02:25:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Thanks for the suggestion about changing my name, I'll be sure to download the forms, submit them and change my name to Jack Ungerton. Well, I know the capabilities of a NanoBridge M5 now as I've tested it for a friend but it was done for two buildings around 500 feet in distance. Is something as basic as a NanoBridge M5 doable or if you start getting into the commercial sector, do you start requiring better equipment ? I haven't been on a roof in a long time so I dont clearly remember what is visible from the top but I'm sure it's a lot. I just want to be able to provide decent pricing to the people and businesses here with symmetrical bandwidth. I haven't had time to figure out administrative costs and how I could provide support if there are any issues though. I would love to have something set up to provide service for a radius of a few miles but I'm not sure that's something I should be messing with. I pretty much am curious on if I were to sell a few hundred megs, what type of devices and how many devices at what cost will it be ? Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Sheesh you guys, you're scaring him AND making fun of his name. Welcome to the club :) -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted. - Hugh Nibley WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Yeah. What the heck guys? If it was that involved 3/4's of the people on this list would be unemployed or doing something else. Someone needs to layout the bootstrap version for him. I can't do it on a blackberry -B- Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 10:33:25 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Sheesh you guys, you're scaring him AND making fun of his name. Welcome to the club :) -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted. - Hugh Nibley WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband SURVEY
Punctuation, too. I can't answer most of these because I can't grasp what's being asked. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Leon D. Zetekoff wa4...@arrl.net wrote: On 5/27/2010 12:13 PM, Rick Harnish wrote: Done Please take the survey. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XC5DF7F There are 10 questions on two pages. You must answer all statements with Agree, Undecided or Disagree to proceed. I would have liked to have asked whether the responders are a member or a non-member but we are only allowed 10 questions per survey and I didn't have room. T Hi RIck...can the grammar be improved? leon No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897 - Release Date: 05/26/10 02:25:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
100 Mbit doesn't exist in ptmp wireless. If your goal is to do a 12 mile gigabit link (which is going to be impossible in 1 hop) and then offer service to people inside the building, is there any existing wiring? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 12:43 PM, finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the suggestion about changing my name, I'll be sure to download the forms, submit them and change my name to Jack Ungerton. Well, I know the capabilities of a NanoBridge M5 now as I've tested it for a friend but it was done for two buildings around 500 feet in distance. Is something as basic as a NanoBridge M5 doable or if you start getting into the commercial sector, do you start requiring better equipment ? I haven't been on a roof in a long time so I dont clearly remember what is visible from the top but I'm sure it's a lot. I just want to be able to provide decent pricing to the people and businesses here with symmetrical bandwidth. I haven't had time to figure out administrative costs and how I could provide support if there are any issues though. I would love to have something set up to provide service for a radius of a few miles but I'm not sure that's something I should be messing with. I pretty much am curious on if I were to sell a few hundred megs, what type of devices and how many devices at what cost will it be ? Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Sheesh you guys, you're scaring him AND making fun of his name. Welcome to the club :) -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted. - Hugh Nibley WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband SURVEY
It won't happen today. My day is shot. I will forward this to the Board. Maybe someone else can step in and assist. Thanks, Rick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 12:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband SURVEY Punctuation, too. I can't answer most of these because I can't grasp what's being asked. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Leon D. Zetekoff wa4...@arrl.net wrote: On 5/27/2010 12:13 PM, Rick Harnish wrote: Done Please take the survey. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XC5DF7F There are 10 questions on two pages. You must answer all statements with Agree, Undecided or Disagree to proceed. I would have liked to have asked whether the responders are a member or a non-member but we are only allowed 10 questions per survey and I didn't have room. T Hi RIck...can the grammar be improved? leon No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897 - Release Date: 05/26/10 02:25:00 - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums.Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
That's why I had to change my name from Richard Head. That last name was a curse on this list. Now I have a last name that gets me more respect. -Richard Face -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 12:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums.Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
"Ungerton" sounds very nice; it's right up there with "Ungerville" which is way ahead of "Ungerberg". Unfortunately, "Ungerstanding" is already taken. To avoid confusion, you might want to consider a different first name... maybe "Biff" or "Roger". finkle dinkle wrote: Thanks for the suggestion about changing my name, I'll be sure to download the forms, submit them and change my name to "Jack Ungerton." Well, I know the capabilities of a NanoBridge M5 now as I've tested it for a friend but it was done for two buildings around 500 feet in distance. Is something as basic as a NanoBridge M5 doable or if you start getting into the "commercial" sector, do you start requiring better equipment ? I haven't been on a roof in a long time so I dont clearly remember what is visible from the top but I'm sure it's a lot. I just want to be able to provide decent pricing to the people and businesses here with symmetrical bandwidth. I haven't had time to figure out administrative costs and how I could provide support if there are any issues though. I would love to have something set up to provide service for a radius of a few miles but I'm not sure that's something I should be messing with. I pretty much am curious on if I were to sell a few hundred megs, what type of devices and how many devices at what cost will it be ? Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Sheesh you guys, you're scaring him AND making fun of his name. Welcome to the club :) -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ "As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted." - Hugh Nibley WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
There are a few considerations to make before heading down this path. 1. What are you selling against? DSL, Cable, 3G, Satellite 2. What speeds are available via these services 3. What is your terrain like - trees, hills, valley, desert, etc 4. What is the max distance you are looking to cover - 1, 5, 10 miles? 5. What speeds do you want to deliver - 1.5, 3.0, 10, 20 Mbps 6. You said symmetrical speeds - why? Pretty uncommon for residential service 7. Are you prepared to get little sleep, give up most of your free time for at least the forst 2-3 months? 8. If you are doing this to break even, don't bother. You are only doing your customers a disservice because you will get tired/bored/sick of losing money and shut it down. 9. If you want to make this profitable, plan on trying to get some business customers - they are worth muvh more. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 02:55:21AM -0700, MDK wrote: As long as there is money on the table - as long as any administration or agency or even Congress has the means to buy off resistance - there is no reliable massive block of resistance. As was pointed out in other emails, an alliance with small and rural CLEC's and others is going to be shaky, because if the regulators put money on the table for them, they abandon the common defense and we're on our own. Yes, I expect USF money to be used as bait in how this plays out. Next, we need to address fundamental questions - Ideas must be sellable to Congress, they must obtain at least a modicum of support, and they should be equitable to all - putting free market principles to work.It must not institute permanent subsidy, which discourages the establishment of business models which are fundamentally sound WITHOUT public money. I see no reason to have permanent USF subsidy. It is money down the toilet over the long run and a tax that seriously hinders people's ability to afford communications services. A big part of current USF money goes to switching which I see as an antiquated hierarchy where small rural towns have their own switch, with all it's maintenance and support. With the advent of cheap high capacity fiber created by ARRA projects and private upgrades, smaller digital switches, wholesale access to switch partitions, and VOIP, there is no technical reason to permanently subsidize modern distributed switching. If permanent support for switching were tapered off, the rural phone companies could find cheaper ways to do voice switching. The cellcos almost all have some sort of architecture where all their sites in the state go back to single state-wide switches. When not used for switching, permanent USF pays for monopoly infrastructure that discourages rural competition by irrationally priced services. 4. No ILEC is ever eligible for any subsidy within the boundaries of it's incumbency, whether it is expanding broadband to unserved portions of its incumbency or not.Whether or not CLEC status should be included should be a subject of debate. CLECs tend to be doing stuff that meets a need the ILECs aren't filling. I'm fine with non-permanent support to that. 5. That any financial incentive consist solely as a refundable tax rebate per consumer serviced per month, with the consumers being defined as those who reside in an area currently without broadband, or in an area where infrastructure does not currently exist to serve at least 95% of all residences within that area.Area definition should be tied to local trade areas.Consumers would be defined as customers of the ISP, be it residential, business, or organization - like schools, businesses, or even other ISP's. 6. Rebate eligibility expires upon: 2 years after a 3rd provider or 2nd different technology covers at least 95% of all consumers within the defined areas.( example, DSL access is limited to a smallish rural area, so the 1st and 2nd WISP can both claim rebates per consumer, but the DSL provider cannot unless it expands to reach 95% of the people. WISP's cannot qualify EITHER, unless or until they can cover 95%. Even if 2 WISP's fully cover, rebates continue until a third joins - then the trigger allows that WISP subsidy for 2 years,, or the telco rolls out universal DSL, at which the telco and WISP's continue for 2 years and then expires. Even if one/any/all go out of business after this threshold is crossed, the expiration is permanent,) A tax rebate would be highly preferable to USF, as it would be a reduction in taxation rather than an increase in taxation. Either way, non-permanent support is the only thing I can advocate. I like the idea of non-permanent support for unserved/underserved areas. My state's ConnectME fund is looking at a one-time ISP payment (per customer) to support high-cost installations to unserved locations. The details of how much and under what conditions are undecided, but it would address the high CPE/installation costs that plague broadband expansion and would not cause long term dependence on government. This would be an alternative to the present system of government funded infrastructure projects. This would be less apt to stir a hornets nest of capitalism versus government funded project overbuilding, which is more and more apt to happen. 10. That ALL infrastructure investment be fully expensable -as in 100% write-off in year one, as it concerns taxes.Basically, that puts every ISP in the position of being able to write off and not be taxed on growing or expansion.This should be permanent tax policy for EVERYONE, everywhere. This has some precedent. Something like the §179 which lets the self employed fully deduct big SUVs and work trucks. This was meant to help small businesses and the auto
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
If you haven't been in this business you probably don't fully understand the work involved so I agree that if your not making money it won't last long. Especially those 7am calls because the Internet isn't working (even though it may have nothing to do with your service) and the customer who does perpetual speed tests and as soon as he doesn't get his speed ( even though he knows it is best effort and not dedicated) wants you to come out. I use expensive equipment to minimize problems but there are so many things outside of your control. Be willing to work and have thick skin. If it was easy everbody would do it. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:08 PM, finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com wrote: Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums.Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- ---
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
On 05/27/2010 01:23 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: and the customer who does perpetual speed tests and as soon as he doesn't get his speed ( even though he knows it is best effort and not dedicated) wants you to come out. Wait a minute we have that customer too...so he's using you for a connection as well ;)! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Like this: http://netsys-direct.com/vdsl_products.php Bring your bandwidth to the Telco room and connect to your router Connect router to VDSL switch next to the telephone punch blocks Cross connect from the VDSL switch to the punch block on a pair to the customers unit Install a modem in the customer unit. Depending on the distance/condition of the existing phone line you can get up to 25Mbps without running new wires. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I knew when he asked me about load balancing routers something was up. I won't fight you over him that's for sure. Haha. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:26 PM, Bret Clark bcl...@spectraaccess.com wrote: On 05/27/2010 01:23 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: and the customer who does perpetual speed tests and as soon as he doesn't get his speed ( even though he knows it is best effort and not dedicated) wants you to come out. Wait a minute we have that customer too...so he's using you for a connection as well ;)! --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
1/2) UVerse is coming soon, box has been outside for 6 months on, neighbors can get it but not the building yet. 6mbit max dsl and 28/3 possible cable modem but it's usually unstable. 3) if I want to sell LOS, it's pretty flat if I recall, I dont know to what degree I can shoot LOS though, it may be smaller than I remember. 4) maybe 5 miles, would love 10. 5) want to be able to scale.. 50 megs each way would be great, 100 megs would be better (doubt I will have a customer for 100/100 but who knows) 6) if I could profit off it, why wouldn't I cater to the people who do want the symmetrical speeds, residential or business -- I have no discrimination towards people who work from home, like uploading pictures and working, I will obviously have to figure something out about file sharing. 7) I already get little sleep anyway ;) no I sleep well and very little amount of people nag me. I guess I'd have to learn to deal with it. 8/9) It's sort of like a service where I'm able to offer them a lot more than just wireless service. I could pretty much upsell them on everything else, referrals and stuff. With the potential clients I have lined up for inside the building, If i could get two 50/50 customers which I KNOW I could, I will do well. I never thought about using the existing phone lines in the building.. I wonder how ATT would react to that once they're ready to launch UVerse inside. I do like the ability to be able reach Maximum Speeds of 100 Mbps Symmetrical at distances up to 1,000 feet (300 m) as said on some of those VDSL modems but it's all maximum theoretical speeds anyway. I know I could differentiate myself from these bigger companies because of the possible level of Enterprise support I could offer, for example.. Offering the bigger companies space in the cage at the datacenter with service to allow them to set their servers offsite but pretty much be considered LAN since I could just send it via the PTP Fiber link. Also, I could obviously link up to any provider in Los Angeles via the meet me rooms. I'd probably plug into Hurricane Electric since they're unbelievably cheap but there are Premium Bandwidth Mix's out there that aren't too expensive and I think I could make a pretty good amount of money doing this. Richard, thinking about changing my name to Wilmington Wellington 3rd.. perhaps I could get money at me with that sort of a name. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: There are a few considerations to make before heading down this path. 1. What are you selling against? DSL, Cable, 3G, Satellite 2. What speeds are available via these services 3. What is your terrain like - trees, hills, valley, desert, etc 4. What is the max distance you are looking to cover - 1, 5, 10 miles? 5. What speeds do you want to deliver - 1.5, 3.0, 10, 20 Mbps 6. You said symmetrical speeds - why? Pretty uncommon for residential service 7. Are you prepared to get little sleep, give up most of your free time for at least the forst 2-3 months? 8. If you are doing this to break even, don't bother. You are only doing your customers a disservice because you will get tired/bored/sick of losing money and shut it down. 9. If you want to make this profitable, plan on trying to get some business customers - they are worth muvh more. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total
[WISPA] Dragonwave Horizon Quantum
Hi all I am curious to know if anybody tried this product. Any comment? Another question: can I migrate from Horizon Compact to Quantum or better to invest directly into the quantum? Thank you in advance. P.S. most of the links should be 1+1 or with some form of redundancy -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I remember those days. Glad that ended 3 years ago, myself. On 5/27/10, finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com wrote: 1/2) UVerse is coming soon, box has been outside for 6 months on, neighbors can get it but not the building yet. 6mbit max dsl and 28/3 possible cable modem but it's usually unstable. 3) if I want to sell LOS, it's pretty flat if I recall, I dont know to what degree I can shoot LOS though, it may be smaller than I remember. 4) maybe 5 miles, would love 10. 5) want to be able to scale.. 50 megs each way would be great, 100 megs would be better (doubt I will have a customer for 100/100 but who knows) 6) if I could profit off it, why wouldn't I cater to the people who do want the symmetrical speeds, residential or business -- I have no discrimination towards people who work from home, like uploading pictures and working, I will obviously have to figure something out about file sharing. 7) I already get little sleep anyway ;) no I sleep well and very little amount of people nag me. I guess I'd have to learn to deal with it. 8/9) It's sort of like a service where I'm able to offer them a lot more than just wireless service. I could pretty much upsell them on everything else, referrals and stuff. With the potential clients I have lined up for inside the building, If i could get two 50/50 customers which I KNOW I could, I will do well. I never thought about using the existing phone lines in the building.. I wonder how ATT would react to that once they're ready to launch UVerse inside. I do like the ability to be able reach Maximum Speeds of 100 Mbps Symmetrical at distances up to 1,000 feet (300 m) as said on some of those VDSL modems but it's all maximum theoretical speeds anyway. I know I could differentiate myself from these bigger companies because of the possible level of Enterprise support I could offer, for example.. Offering the bigger companies space in the cage at the datacenter with service to allow them to set their servers offsite but pretty much be considered LAN since I could just send it via the PTP Fiber link. Also, I could obviously link up to any provider in Los Angeles via the meet me rooms. I'd probably plug into Hurricane Electric since they're unbelievably cheap but there are Premium Bandwidth Mix's out there that aren't too expensive and I think I could make a pretty good amount of money doing this. Richard, thinking about changing my name to Wilmington Wellington 3rd.. perhaps I could get money at me with that sort of a name. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: There are a few considerations to make before heading down this path. 1. What are you selling against? DSL, Cable, 3G, Satellite 2. What speeds are available via these services 3. What is your terrain like - trees, hills, valley, desert, etc 4. What is the max distance you are looking to cover - 1, 5, 10 miles? 5. What speeds do you want to deliver - 1.5, 3.0, 10, 20 Mbps 6. You said symmetrical speeds - why? Pretty uncommon for residential service 7. Are you prepared to get little sleep, give up most of your free time for at least the forst 2-3 months? 8. If you are doing this to break even, don't bother. You are only doing your customers a disservice because you will get tired/bored/sick of losing money and shut it down. 9. If you want to make this profitable, plan on trying to get some business customers - they are worth muvh more. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Are you trying to say that I'm just dreaming? I do appreciate everyone's input.. I bet a few people have had the same dream as I, then started it and figured out it wasn't all too easy.. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I remember those days. Glad that ended 3 years ago, myself. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dragonwave Horizon Quantum
I have a large amount of Compacts in the air without issue. They work great. They are not upgradeable to Quantum or Duo. If you will need the bandwidth then go directly to the Quantum. Be careful of your 1+1 idea. Makes no sense if you are running one common IDU with one common ODU with 2 channels Good luck Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 19:54:58 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Dragonwave Horizon Quantum Hi all I am curious to know if anybody tried this product. Any comment? Another question: can I migrate from Horizon Compact to Quantum or better to invest directly into the quantum? Thank you in advance. P.S. most of the links should be 1+1 or with some form of redundancy -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
-Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp 1/2) UVerse is coming soon, box has been outside for 6 months on, neighbors can get it but not the building yet. 6mbit max dsl and 28/3 possible cable modem but it's usually unstable. With wireless you are not going to comptete on speed. Service/local guy/support/symmetrical speed are going to be your selling points. Sell based on speed and you'll get hammered. 3) if I want to sell LOS, it's pretty flat if I recall, I dont know to what degree I can shoot LOS though, it may be smaller than I remember. LOS gets you into the 5GHz equipment. - Canopy 430 ~21Mbps aggregate is the most stable unlicenced platform available at this time 4) maybe 5 miles, would love 10. No problem with the Canopy 430 - you'll see full speed at 5 mi and perhaps 2/3 speed at 10 5) want to be able to scale.. 50 megs each way would be great, 100 megs would be better (doubt I will have a customer for 100/100 but who knows) Nothing like that in PMP. you can use something like Ubiquity or other 802.11 to get higher speeds, however they are not as robust as Canopy, and it does not scale well due to lack of GPS based Tx/Rx timing 6) if I could profit off it, why wouldn't I cater to the people who do want the symmetrical speeds, residential or business -- I have no discrimination towards people who work from home, like uploading pictures and working, I will obviously have to figure something out about file sharing. When I say residential I am not including SOHO. Symmetrical is not really a selling feature for residential - Comcast/ATT has done a superb job convincing residential users that the only thing that matters is download speed. IF you focus on business, you can be quite profitable with fewer customers. 7) I already get little sleep anyway ;) no I sleep well and very little amount of people nag me. I guess I'd have to learn to deal with it. 8/9) It's sort of like a service where I'm able to offer them a lot more than just wireless service. I could pretty much upsell them on everything else, referrals and stuff. With the potential clients I have lined up for inside the building, If i could get two 50/50 customers which I KNOW I could, I will do well. In the building you can do the 50Mbps+ connections. Unfortunately not via wireless. I never thought about using the existing phone lines in the building.. I wonder how ATT would react to that once they're ready to launch UVerse inside. I do like the ability to be able reach Maximum Speeds of 100 Mbps Symmetrical at distances up to 1,000 feet (300 m) as said on some of those VDSL modems but it's all maximum theoretical speeds anyway. I know I could differentiate myself from these bigger companies because of the possible level of Enterprise support I could offer, for example.. Offering the bigger companies space in the cage at the datacenter with service to allow them to set their servers offsite but pretty much be considered LAN since I could just send it via the PTP Fiber link. Also, I could obviously link up to any provider in Los Angeles via the meet me rooms. I'd probably plug into Hurricane Electric since they're unbelievably cheap but there are Premium Bandwidth Mix's out there that aren't too expensive and I think I could make a pretty good amount of money doing this. BUSINESS SERVICE IS WHERE IT'S AT. Richard, thinking about changing my name to Wilmington Wellington 3rd.. perhaps I could get money at me with that sort of a name. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: There are a few considerations to make before heading down this path. 1. What are you selling against? DSL, Cable, 3G, Satellite 2. What speeds are available via these services 3. What is your terrain like - trees, hills, valley, desert, etc 4. What is the max distance you are looking to cover - 1, 5, 10 miles? 5. What speeds do you want to deliver - 1.5, 3.0, 10, 20 Mbps 6. You said symmetrical speeds - why? Pretty uncommon for residential service 7. Are you prepared to get little sleep, give up most of your free time for at least the forst 2-3 months? 8. If you are doing this to break even, don't bother. You are only doing your customers a disservice because you will get tired/bored/sick of losing money and shut it down. 9. If you want to make this profitable, plan on trying to get some business customers - they are worth muvh more. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP
Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband
Thanks...I was not writing this as if it were a mature proposal... but rather as something to stimulate debate.I'm sure that other people see pitfalls in things I don't, and may perceive unintended consequences I have not. I don't consider it be anywhere near best of all worlds, but it seems both sellable and viable, in our political and economic climate, and it's structure is one of a self-exterminating subsidy, save a very few extremely remote places. I had further thoughts about this... 1. The area of coverage needs to be small.That is, coverage for an area definition should be no larger than a zip code.The point being that such granularity yields up the ability to actually COVER some place without being a multi-million dollar operation. That the areas in question should be defined as those having common economic ties, and separation by geography should result in area boundaries. By its very nature, this would initially encourage a lot of extisting competition to expand coverage, and then would achieve the goals we all see as worthy. And end any subsidy permanently. 2.That ISP's should be able to freely contract with each other to cover an area.Let's imagine some smallish town in Wyoming, where a WISP opens up shop.This hypothetical zip code boundary is served by a WISP, except for one area that's served by a remote DSLAM from another town. The original ISP located in this area doesn't cover that small isolated area because it's already served, and because geography makes it very difficult. In this case, the ISP in the area can contract with the isp that serves the small bit, reaching the 95% threshold... The serving provider then applies for and gets the rebate for those he serves, and the contracted ISP gets the same - but only for those in that region contracted by the local provider. Imagine two WISP's who share a zip code, where one serves the northern part, and one the southern part.One can become the original and contract with his competitor legally, to achieve a single provider coverage for a whole area, and whatever subsidy is paid directly to the serving provider, though each makes up only a part of a region and the two together really only equal a single whole. What I've suggested is a stance by WISPA that can and will be criticized by at least some as being ideological.I consider it a practical stance, not ideological, but that's just me. Before WISPA and its members take any such stand, it should be consider A big deal, and debated by the membership as such. If, for instance, WISPA did adopt such a stand My harsh criticism would end and I would financially support WISPA, as that was and remains my original belief in what a trade organization should be doing.Though we're a business, we're all citizens at the same time, and our collective stand should be conservative, sober, and one of national fiscal responsibility. That may make WISPA unique, but it seems like a stand that would be applauded and promoted widely by a lot of people with extreme concern for their country... and for general direction of our national character. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 5:25 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband Mark, This is an interesting and well thought out proposal. Thank you for taking the time to post and for also not making it politically charged. It might be a good idea to create a condensed version of this proposal with simple bullet points. Politicians and other government officials have a short attention span so a Readers Digest version of this same idea would help in gathering interest and support for the concept. If they express serious interest, a more detailed description can be presented to them. Having to read your full description will get lost on those who skim ideas in the interest of saving time. A condensed version would also be easier to present to the proper WISPA committees to begin discussion. I know quite a few WISPA members do not read the general list in as much detail as they do other lists. I'd be willing to present your concept to the proper committees for consideration. Brian WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband
I agree with small. I wonder if Census Block would work. Where I am it will be a long time before it makes sense to cover 95% of a couple of zip codes. 1 to 2 houses per square mile in hills and trees. But with census blocks I can hit 95% of a lot of them. Also, since the Form 477 moved to census blocks, the FCC can know who is reporting for the block to help determine eligibility. One thing that would be interesting is how anyone will determine 95% coverage. I am not arguing against it, just that it will be a hard to measure quantity. MDK wrote: Thanks...I was not writing this as if it were a mature proposal... but rather as something to stimulate debate.I'm sure that other people see pitfalls in things I don't, and may perceive unintended consequences I have not. I don't consider it be anywhere near best of all worlds, but it seems both sellable and viable, in our political and economic climate, and it's structure is one of a self-exterminating subsidy, save a very few extremely remote places. I had further thoughts about this... 1. The area of coverage needs to be small.That is, coverage for an area definition should be no larger than a zip code.The point being that such granularity yields up the ability to actually COVER some place without being a multi-million dollar operation. That the areas in question should be defined as those having common economic ties, and separation by geography should result in area boundaries. By its very nature, this would initially encourage a lot of extisting competition to expand coverage, and then would achieve the goals we all see as worthy. And end any subsidy permanently. 2.That ISP's should be able to freely contract with each other to cover an area.Let's imagine some smallish town in Wyoming, where a WISP opens up shop.This hypothetical zip code boundary is served by a WISP, except for one area that's served by a remote DSLAM from another town. The original ISP located in this area doesn't cover that small isolated area because it's already served, and because geography makes it very difficult. In this case, the ISP in the area can contract with the isp that serves the small bit, reaching the 95% threshold... The serving provider then applies for and gets the rebate for those he serves, and the contracted ISP gets the same - but only for those in that region contracted by the local provider. Imagine two WISP's who share a zip code, where one serves the northern part, and one the southern part.One can become the original and contract with his competitor legally, to achieve a single provider coverage for a whole area, and whatever subsidy is paid directly to the serving provider, though each makes up only a part of a region and the two together really only equal a single whole. What I've suggested is a stance by WISPA that can and will be criticized by at least some as being ideological.I consider it a practical stance, not ideological, but that's just me. Before WISPA and its members take any such stand, it should be consider A big deal, and debated by the membership as such. If, for instance, WISPA did adopt such a stand My harsh criticism would end and I would financially support WISPA, as that was and remains my original belief in what a trade organization should be doing.Though we're a business, we're all citizens at the same time, and our collective stand should be conservative, sober, and one of national fiscal responsibility. That may make WISPA unique, but it seems like a stand that would be applauded and promoted widely by a lot of people with extreme concern for their country... and for general direction of our national character. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 5:25 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband Mark, This is an interesting and well thought out proposal. Thank you for taking the time to post and for also not making it politically charged. It might be a good idea to create a condensed version of this proposal with simple bullet points. Politicians and other government officials have a short attention span so a Readers Digest version of this same idea would help in gathering interest and support for the concept. If they express serious interest, a more detailed description can be presented to them. Having to read your full description will get lost on those who skim ideas in the interest of saving time. A condensed version would also be easier to present to the proper WISPA committees to begin discussion. I know quite a few WISPA members do not read
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I kinda like finkle dinkle, it has a ring to it! Speaking of funny names: http://blogote.com/2008/resources/worlds-longest-domain-names-website-on-internet.html http://blogote.com/2008/technology/googles-funny-weird-surprising-domain-names.html On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
OrYou Dont Know Jack. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Don't_Know_Jack_(game) Whoops, back to the computer game Thread -- On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Ungerton sounds very nice; it's right up there with Ungerville which is way ahead of Ungerberg. Unfortunately, Ungerstanding is already taken. To avoid confusion, you might want to consider a different first name... maybe Biff or Roger. finkle dinkle wrote: Thanks for the suggestion about changing my name, I'll be sure to download the forms, submit them and change my name to Jack Ungerton. Well, I know the capabilities of a NanoBridge M5 now as I've tested it for a friend but it was done for two buildings around 500 feet in distance. Is something as basic as a NanoBridge M5 doable or if you start getting into the commercial sector, do you start requiring better equipment ? I haven't been on a roof in a long time so I dont clearly remember what is visible from the top but I'm sure it's a lot. I just want to be able to provide decent pricing to the people and businesses here with symmetrical bandwidth. I haven't had time to figure out administrative costs and how I could provide support if there are any issues though. I would love to have something set up to provide service for a radius of a few miles but I'm not sure that's something I should be messing with. I pretty much am curious on if I were to sell a few hundred megs, what type of devices and how many devices at what cost will it be ? Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Sheesh you guys, you're scaring him AND making fun of his name. Welcome to the club :) -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ As knowledge increases, the verdict of yesterday must be reversed today, and in the long run the most positive authority is the least to be trusted. - Hugh Nibley WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Good list Jerry! I'd also recommend a good business plan in writing. Oh! 7. Are you prepared to get little sleep, give up most of your free time for at least the forst 2-3 months? You meant 2-3 years, correct? ;) On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: There are a few considerations to make before heading down this path. 1. What are you selling against? DSL, Cable, 3G, Satellite 2. What speeds are available via these services 3. What is your terrain like - trees, hills, valley, desert, etc 4. What is the max distance you are looking to cover - 1, 5, 10 miles? 5. What speeds do you want to deliver - 1.5, 3.0, 10, 20 Mbps 6. You said symmetrical speeds - why? Pretty uncommon for residential service 7. Are you prepared to get little sleep, give up most of your free time for at least the forst 2-3 months? 8. If you are doing this to break even, don't bother. You are only doing your customers a disservice because you will get tired/bored/sick of losing money and shut it down. 9. If you want to make this profitable, plan on trying to get some business customers - they are worth muvh more. Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com --- ---
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Ubiquiti will not do 50+ stations. Period. You might get 25 on low bandwidth rates (2x512). On 5/27/10, finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com wrote: Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
It still exists but not the degree other methods of access do. While high medium voltage use is still an option in some places, I was actually referring to the in-building aspect of the network. There is some cool equipment for that use: http://www.corinex.com/in-building-solution-2.html http://motorola.wirelessbroadbandsupport.com/solutions/bpl/ -RickG On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? --- --- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- ---
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Is that what you told Rickeesha? :) On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: That's why I had to change my name from Richard Head. That last name was a curse on this list. Now I have a last name that gets me more respect. -Richard Face -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 12:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could do better but what are we looking at here, if the total cost to get the bandwidth, less the equipment to my office building at 8 bux a meg, how much should I be selling it ? any recommendations ? I do not want to be a company like towerstream where I sell 8 megs for 800/MRC, i'm looking to charge more like 25 bux per meg... Is my model right or wrong ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
[WISPA] Trango 900AP
Anyone near Oklahoma have a Trango M900AP they are willing to let go of? Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Trango 900AP
I would sell one if you need it. On 5/27/10, Patrick D. Nix, Jr pni...@cnetworksolutions.com wrote: Anyone near Oklahoma have a Trango M900AP they are willing to let go of? Patrick Nix, Jr., Computer Network Solutions CSWEB.NET Internet Services IT Manager http://www.cnetworksolutions.com http://www.csweb.net (918) 235-0414 Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to support 20-50 clients externally with the devices and which devices.. I'm looking to sell the bandwidth for a relatively low price, undercut wimax and not strictly looking for profit but looking to be the point guy for other tech operations for these potential clients.. Also, to the people who have good access to bandwidth or even not.. how much are you looking at from all your cost to what you actually charge (not including administrative) but lets assume your bandwidth costs are 8k/month with the point to point to the datacenter + 1000mbit commit. I know I could
[WISPA] 900MHz Backhaul Solutions
I just want to see what everyone else is using and what their experiences are. Thanks, Pat WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Backhaul Solutions
Waverider has one but I have not personally used it. I have a couple of their 5.8 units running for over 2 years. No problems. 900 didn't have enough bandwidthfor me. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 5:54 PM, Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com wrote: I just want to see what everyone else is using and what their experiences are. Thanks, Pat --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem
Can you lock down gig? Most of the time I've tried to do that it seemed problematic. Kevin - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff wa4...@arrl.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem On 5/27/2010 10:04 AM, RickG wrote: Auto neg can cause problems. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: No, it's a gig link, set to auto neg. snip auto-neg definitely the problem especially if non gig on other side. Lock both sides down Leon No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897 - Release Date: 05/26/10 02:25:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem
What NICs are your Linux routers? On 5/27/10, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: Can you lock down gig? Most of the time I've tried to do that it seemed problematic. Kevin - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff wa4...@arrl.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem On 5/27/2010 10:04 AM, RickG wrote: Auto neg can cause problems. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: No, it's a gig link, set to auto neg. snip auto-neg definitely the problem especially if non gig on other side. Lock both sides down Leon No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897 - Release Date: 05/26/10 02:25:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem
Broadcom, not sure which. I'll check. Kevin - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem What NICs are your Linux routers? On 5/27/10, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: Can you lock down gig? Most of the time I've tried to do that it seemed problematic. Kevin - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff wa4...@arrl.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem On 5/27/2010 10:04 AM, RickG wrote: Auto neg can cause problems. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: No, it's a gig link, set to auto neg. snip auto-neg definitely the problem especially if non gig on other side. Lock both sides down Leon No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897 - Release Date: 05/26/10 02:25:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem
I would definitely replace those. IME Broadcom is the worst *nix NIC. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:51 PM, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: Broadcom, not sure which. I'll check. Kevin - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem What NICs are your Linux routers? On 5/27/10, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: Can you lock down gig? Most of the time I've tried to do that it seemed problematic. Kevin - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff wa4...@arrl.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem On 5/27/2010 10:04 AM, RickG wrote: Auto neg can cause problems. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: No, it's a gig link, set to auto neg. snip auto-neg definitely the problem especially if non gig on other side. Lock both sides down Leon No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897 - Release Date: 05/26/10 02:25:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not in the building but through wireless), are there devices that dont have to rely on LOS ? I'm just trying to understand if this all went along well, how many devices would I need to mount up on the roof to
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem
AMEN to THAT use Intel wherever possible On May 27, 2010, at 7:00 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I would definitely replace those. IME Broadcom is the worst *nix NIC. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:51 PM, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: Broadcom, not sure which. I'll check. Kevin - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem What NICs are your Linux routers? On 5/27/10, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: Can you lock down gig? Most of the time I've tried to do that it seemed problematic. Kevin - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff wa4...@arrl.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik routing/queing problem On 5/27/2010 10:04 AM, RickG wrote: Auto neg can cause problems. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:51 AM, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.net wrote: No, it's a gig link, set to auto neg. snip auto-neg definitely the problem especially if non gig on other side. Lock both sides down Leon No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897 - Release Date: 05/26/10 02:25:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there any laws if I want to sell service ? If I want to provide service to lets just say 50 clients (not
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Rocket w/matching sector Sent from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:37 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
CPEs are limited on APs. APs are limited in spectrum. On 5/27/10, finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation would be to legally change your name from Finkle Dinkle to something that sounds a little more business-like. I'd recommend something like Joe Smith or Bob Jones. finkle dinkle wrote: So, I've got space in a building in So. Cal with a lot of neighbors with crappy connections. In the beginning, I wanted to bring in a gig PTP from the datacenter 12 miles away... I'm not a salesman, I think with the bandwidth I have available at the DC + the of the PTP, I could've made everyone in the building happy, at least 20 tenants if I could convince them.. doubt I could. Anyway, I have potential access to the roof, I'd have to ask. Are there
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
And Motorola has a unique way of reusing spectrum...I've been blown away how you can reuse spectrum so easily with Canopy. I've got 4 towers that can see each other on the same frequency using canopy...do that with MT/UBNT/Tranzeo/StarOS...and you have this little problem called self-interference. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp CPEs are limited on APs. APs are limited in spectrum. On 5/27/10, finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 09:28:35 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp My first recommendation
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
if you are not going with moto, then the ubiquity airmax stuff would be as good a choice as any. you might get 20 business class subs per ap and you should be able to get 3 120deg sectors on the roof. you will run into self interference problems at around 20 subs per AP. unfortunately you will already be committed to the ubiquity and there is no going back. gotta rip it all out and rebuild with canopy or add more AP's in another band. compare that to 50+ subs per canopy AP and none of the self interference problems inherent in non-sync'd gear. ~Sent mobile~ On May 27, 2010, at 5:53 PM, j284...@yahoo.com j284...@yahoo.com wrote: Rocket w/matching sector Sent from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:37 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I don't know about 50 - it totally depends on your customers' bandwidth rates. On 5/27/10, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: if you are not going with moto, then the ubiquity airmax stuff would be as good a choice as any. you might get 20 business class subs per ap and you should be able to get 3 120deg sectors on the roof. you will run into self interference problems at around 20 subs per AP. unfortunately you will already be committed to the ubiquity and there is no going back. gotta rip it all out and rebuild with canopy or add more AP's in another band. compare that to 50+ subs per canopy AP and none of the self interference problems inherent in non-sync'd gear. ~Sent mobile~ On May 27, 2010, at 5:53 PM, j284...@yahoo.com j284...@yahoo.com wrote: Rocket w/matching sector Sent from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:37 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not getting what they deserve. I've always been a proponent of maxing stuff out so I will be a great benefit to the tenants. So if I'm able to set something up externally, I may be able to actually break even and profit some, I actually know I could profit but I want this to be more of a service to the people who are unable to get anything decent out here. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: Nice introduction to the WISPA community. Make fun of the name. I even recommended this person check out WISPA from the Ubiquity forums. Anyhow, welcome. I would suggest reading through the archives for some good discussions on things. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Well...you need to look at it from another standpoint. A vast majority of businesses that we are going to be signing up are either 3-6MB/s DSL or us. You can oversubscribe a 430 AP very well at those rates. And I would argue that those customers wanting more bandwidth would be better served with a PtP connection and would definitely pay for it, considering the cost of the alternative (Fiber,DS3, MetroE, etc.). Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp I don't know about 50 - it totally depends on your customers' bandwidth rates. On 5/27/10, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: if you are not going with moto, then the ubiquity airmax stuff would be as good a choice as any. you might get 20 business class subs per ap and you should be able to get 3 120deg sectors on the roof. you will run into self interference problems at around 20 subs per AP. unfortunately you will already be committed to the ubiquity and there is no going back. gotta rip it all out and rebuild with canopy or add more AP's in another band. compare that to 50+ subs per canopy AP and none of the self interference problems inherent in non-sync'd gear. ~Sent mobile~ On May 27, 2010, at 5:53 PM, j284...@yahoo.com j284...@yahoo.com wrote: Rocket w/matching sector Sent from my BlackBerry(r) -Original Message- From: finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:37 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Justin, appreciate your suggestion. I've been looking around and will continue to. Josh, the gbit ptp will be done through fiber to the building, then whoever in the building wants service.. will pay set up to get set up with ethernet or fiber to my office. I know I could get enough business inside the building to cover half the cost of everything because I'm pretty sure there is a company here with quite a few T1's, overpaying and not
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Yep, I will look and test ubnt equipment.. I'm in no rush, just learning legalities and stuff. I never thought about vdsl from the phone room, that's a great idea.. Ultimately I'd love to bring a gig ptp in there and be able to do everything that I wanted to do in the past and be able to subsidize it by offering some wireless customers heavy bandwidth, I could beat the wimax pricing from towerstream at least. I'm looking to only gain like 10 business clients using wireless. I dont want to overwhelm myself. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: Well...you need to look at it from another standpoint. A vast majority of businesses that we are going to be signing up are either 3-6MB/s DSL or us. You can oversubscribe a 430 AP very well at those rates. And I would argue that those customers wanting more bandwidth would be better served with a PtP connection and would definitely pay for it, considering the cost of the alternative (Fiber,DS3, MetroE, etc.). Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp I don't know about 50 - it totally depends on your customers' bandwidth rates. On 5/27/10, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: if you are not going with moto, then the ubiquity airmax stuff would be as good a choice as any. you might get 20 business class subs per ap and you should be able to get 3 120deg sectors on the roof. you will run into self interference problems at around 20 subs per AP. unfortunately you will already be committed to the ubiquity and there is no going back. gotta rip it all out and rebuild with canopy or add more AP's in another band. compare that to 50+ subs per canopy AP and none of the self interference problems inherent in non-sync'd gear. ~Sent mobile~ On May 27, 2010, at 5:53 PM, j284...@yahoo.com j284...@yahoo.com wrote: Rocket w/matching sector Sent from my BlackBerry(r) -Original Message- From: finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:37 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know exactly how many NanoBridge M5's I could connect to a single one, so I dont want to have to end up with the entire roof covered with antenna's. The 50mbit I could offer internally with ethernet or vdsl would be great if it was symmetrical (vdsl), I want to be able to do this, just trying to figure out how much I'd sell 50/50. Thanks On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com wrote: Thought BPL was dead -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Or BPL. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing. Use a mini dslam on the free pairs to get Internet in the rooms. Ptp to the building and dsl to the customer. Sent from my iPhone On May 27, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just- micro.com wrote: Then you could provide the access via dsl in the building. That would be the logical route to go I think. -Richard -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On
Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband
MDK, I applaud your Email. It will take some time to fully digest all the relevent points that were addressed. I dont agree with everything that you suggested, but I do agree with a signfiicant part of it. One realization that you brought up which I agree with is regarding that we will reach a time where a line will need to be drawn in the sand, and we'll need to know which side of the line we are going to be standing on. On some of these topics, playing both sides simply isn't going to be possible. I have a couple quick comments 1) Anything posted on the general list will be google indexed for the world to see. Including the apposing side. In my opinion, it is not wise to debate WISPA's strategy to combat these important issue, in that environment. For that reason, I have been disccussing NBP and TItleII reclassification topics on the member list which is only available to wispa members to read. Its also important that WISPA represent's WISPA member. When debating on an open list, its really hard for me to decipher which comments are comming from members and which are not. For example, a Verizon lobbiest could be masking themselves as a WISP, and I'd never know. I'd also like to re-engage legislative committee list, to start formulating a plan, so members list does not get saturated with policy posts. I welcome members to join legislative committe who are interested in debating this. The more members that join the committee, the bigger the change the conclusion will be a reflection of member's opinion. 2) I think much debate is needed regarding strategy for these important topics. I think its to early to ask members to vote on what our stance should be. Because there has been little debate to challenge potential stances, and many members may not yet be fully versed with all the facts, so some may make an uninformed decission, that could have results different than what they expected by taking their stance. 3) Stategy is needed. Its easy to come up with what we want. The hard part is to justify and convince policy makers to give us that. And what we want may not be realistic to achieve. This is serious business, we dont want to pick a stance that will leave us with nothing at all at the end, because we didn;t face realitiy. We cant forget that FCC and Congress also already have an idea of what they want. There are many complicated issues here. Its not that I dont want to poll members, I am very interested in what they have to say and think. But there is also a huge advantage to creating a think tank environment first, challenged by council, and to share results with memebrship for them to consider before deciding their position.. For example, Congress and FCC have an obligation to help consumers, and consumers want their broadband options improved. To help, money is needed. USF has been identified as a money source, by the FCC and Congress. Its very unlikely they'll vote to wipe out a money source that actively regenerates funds. Its so much more likely they'll try to repurpose those funds, to solve a problem. Sure we can fight to shutdown USF, many of us would prefer that, but the flip side is if USF is not shut down, and we do not lobby for how to best repurpose it, it will be guaranteed that fund will go to or competitors in mass proportions, and we will get harmed by that, I'd argue possibly even extinguished by that. Another example was BTOP Round2. In Round2, much funds will go for inter- networking government locations. In one sense its an outrage that huge amounts of money will go to build networks that may not be needed, and take revenue away from the price sector providers. And few WISPs will see a dime of it. But on the flip side it was possibly a victory. What it also meant was that WISP's last mile networks will be less likely to get overbuilt. Last mile monoploies will be less likely to get created. And the most Rural areas were targeted, so less chance of a WISP's prime subscriber base market being over built. OR for example, many can argue money was most needed for Last mile, but lobbying for that had more risk, if the chances were moeny would just be spent to build a monopoly to put the rest of us out of business, since we are last mile provider? What I'm trying to say is everything is a double edge sword in this business. You hit on a good point with USF. Terminating USF and not allowing it to go for broadband would be the least riskful thing for WISPs, and a small price to pay to not be eligible for funds. But, is that realistic? That Congress and FCC will turn away a $20billion dollar fund? That $20billion will gain a lot of votes, and it wont result in increasing taxes, since its paid for by the greedy (public distorted perception, not mine) Telcos, right? We need a well thought out strategy. I think that USF reform is a huge part of the desire to reclassify broadband as TItleII, and probably the bigest topic
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz Backhaul Solutions
I used a MoTo 900 AM SM for a backhaul to a remote site for 3 years. Was able to push 3Megs so to the site. Was 5 miles with nowhere near LOS. Used Yagis on both ends. Link was flawless. Before that I used some Waverider 900 gear. It was struck by lightning so I changed to Canopy. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://www.mtin.net/blog Wisp Consulting Tower Climbing Network Support From: Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 15:54:43 -0700 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] 900MHz Backhaul Solutions I just want to see what everyone else is using and what their experiences are. Thanks, Pat WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
I am not disagreeing with the advantages of Canopy. No doubt Canopy is a quality carrier grade type system. BUT, to be fair There are other factors to consider.. 1) Syncing can be effective for spectrum reuse, and extremely useful. But, it can become less effective and sometimes can still be subject to self-interference as the nework grows, such as when the sub's distince away from towers varies drastically between sectors. The reason us that sectors can hear CPEs behinds it in some capacity, not just teh CPEs in front of it. For example, IF sector 1 has a sub at half mile, and Sector2 has sub at 10 miles. Sector2 may hear sector1's sub louder than it hears its own subscriber 10 miles away. For syncing to work optimally without self interference, all the Client's signal levels at the AP ideally should be received at similar signal strenth, so that the Front to back ratios of sector antennas is enough to isolate the two sectors. Whether that is possible may depend on the frequency range you use, and what antennas are available to easilly deploy. With Canopy C/I spec of 3db helps a lot, but the plastic case lets more noise reach the unit. We ran into this when comparingto Trango. trango only had about 7db C/I, but the thick metal case had muchbetter F?B than Canopy did, so it average out. 2) Canopies have signficantly shorter range because by default config (integrated antenna models) they use APs and SUs with lower DB antennas and wider beamwidths, so not able to operate at peak EIRP. Also note that gain by antenna has a double effect. Meaning for an AP, it increases the receives from CPEs as well as the transmits to CPEs. So a large penalty is taken if an AP has an lower DB antenna than competing products. Canopy has many different models now, and antenna design is not the same with them all, so I dont mean to stereotype the product line. In an Ubquiti AirMax solutions, they have optimally strong sector antenna options. And they have the flexibilty for a wide array of antenna choices for CPEs. That flexibility can be useful, and it is affordable to achieve. Saying that Ubiquiti wont be able to scale, and one day will need to be pulled out, is not necessarilly true. There are enhancements to beef up Ubiquiti. For example, some jsut made a nice steel antenna shield, that adds a huge amount of Front to back ratio teh the Ubiquiti antenna. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: j284...@yahoo.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp if you are not going with moto, then the ubiquity airmax stuff would be as good a choice as any. you might get 20 business class subs per ap and you should be able to get 3 120deg sectors on the roof. you will run into self interference problems at around 20 subs per AP. unfortunately you will already be committed to the ubiquity and there is no going back. gotta rip it all out and rebuild with canopy or add more AP's in another band. compare that to 50+ subs per canopy AP and none of the self interference problems inherent in non-sync'd gear. ~Sent mobile~ On May 27, 2010, at 5:53 PM, j284...@yahoo.com j284...@yahoo.com wrote: Rocket w/matching sector Sent from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: finkle dinkle char...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:51:37 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Well, I'm not saying I want a single AP, just trying to determine which route with UBNT products would support the most per client On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: I was thinking the same thing... I want to be business class and go the cheap-o route. By a Yugo, get Yugo quality...especially if you think 50 business customers on a single ap is going to work well in an urban area with UBNT. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Your Moto bias will cost you. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of finkle dinkle Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp Yea, I will want to specialize only in businesses truthfully, when I say that I will support residential, they're going to pay business rates and I will hand pick the people if they call me.. I dont want headaches Unfortunately I do not knowingly buy Motorola brand products for personal reasons. I do want to stick to ubnt brand products but I dont know
[WISPA] Panelists Needed for Regional Show
I am seeking three (3) panelists for each of the tracks below. Please send me an email if you are interested. I would like to have good representation from multiple companies so don't be bashful. I'm also looking for two (2) WISPs who have a success story to tell. This is for the WISPA Regional Meeting in St. Louis on July 21st and 22nd. 10:30 - 11:30 TV White Spaces Panel TBD Intro to WiMax Panel TBD VoIP I Panel Keith Rivers - Great Auk Wireless - Tentative 11:30 - 12:30 Broadband Stimulus Panel TBD Into the Future - How to Deploy Fiber Panel TBD Improving Your WISP Marketing (Website design, online press releases, using social media, search engine optimization, etc.) TBD :30 - 2:30 3650 MHz Panel Josh Garza - Great Auk Wireless Tower Technology I Panel Getting Physical - Safety, selection, design, guying, erection, climbing, maintenance; etc.) Moderator: Jack Unger TBD Network Management Panel Moderator: Matt Larsen TBD 2:30 - 3:30 Universal Service Fund Panel -Past, Present and Future Moderator: Jon Allen or David Kaufman (Rini/Coran) TBD Tower Technology II Panel - Wireless Design - AP placement, power, coax, Cat5, lightning protection, antenna placement, grounding, etc) Moderator: Jack Unger Bob Morola - Great Auk Wireless - Tentative Email and Web Hosting Panel TBD 11:30 - 12:30 Broadband Mapping Panel: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Moderator: Matt Larsen Brian Webster [others selected by Brian Webster] 2:10 - 2:30 Principal Member Success Story #1 3:10 - 3:30 Principal Member Success Story #2 Respectively, Rick Harnish President WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband
This is in no way way to put your responses down JP...but in almost all your responses you have responded as a WISP that is making money Yes, I expect USF money to be used as bait in how this plays out. SNIP I see no reason to have permanent USF subsidy. It is money down the toilet over the long run and a tax that seriously hinders people's ability to afford communications services. A big part of current USF money goes to switching which I see as an antiquated hierarchy where small rural towns have their own switch, with all it's maintenance and support. With the advent of cheap high capacity fiber created by ARRA projects and private upgrades, smaller digital switches, wholesale access to switch partitions, and VOIP, there is no technical reason to permanently subsidize modern distributed switching. If permanent support for switching were tapered off, the rural phone companies could find cheaper ways to do voice switching. The cellcos almost all have some sort of architecture where all their sites in the state go back to single state-wide switches. When not used for switching, permanent USF pays for monopoly infrastructure that discourages rural competition by irrationally priced services. The current USF charges are a tax as you put it in high density areas on telco charges. That is used to give rural telcos money to build out and sustain telephone coverage to very under served(remote areas...like 10-20 houses per square mile). The current plan on USF is to only let one entity have access to this. If you have any competitor that is an ILEC or CLEC, you can pretty much kiss your luck of getting this good by! It would put too much work on an already understaffed FCC, and they already favor telcos over anything else. A tax rebate would be highly preferable to USF, as it would be a reduction in taxation rather than an increase in taxation. Either way, non-permanent support is the only thing I can advocate. I like the idea of non-permanent support for unserved/underserved areas. My state's ConnectME fund is looking at a one-time ISP payment (per customer) to support high-cost installations to unserved locations. The details of how much and under what conditions are undecided, but it would address the high CPE/installation costs that plague broadband expansion and would not cause long term dependence on government. This would be an alternative to the present system of government funded infrastructure projects. This would be less apt to stir a hornets nest of capitalism versus government funded project overbuilding, which is more and more apt to happen. Considering past tax rebates, or credits, to take full advantage would require that you are way in the black. This would help newer WISP somewhat, but most are in the red from the beginning. It would definitely help sustained WISP's that have been at it for a few years. Scottie -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
1. While I don't disagree with most of what you are saying, show me the day that a UBNT product can have 160+ clients connected to it with sub 10ms ping times to them all. One single AP, passing 7mb aggregate of traffic. I've had Trango, Canopy, and a huge pusher of MikroTik (same proto as UBNT). Canopy by far beats them in scale, there is no question about it. Most non-Canopy people don't want to hear it, but I started drinking the Moto Kool Aid about a year ago. My support calls of customers on Trango vs Canopy vs Mikro/UBNT is astounding. For every 50 service calls, about 8 of them are for Canopy customers, where the installer did not properly use the correct size antenna or alignment was off. The others are Mikro/UBNT problems from interference or other issues. The Trango is calls because the capacity sucks. 2. Range wise, we have Moto clients 18 miles out. MikroTik/UBNT, we had them at 22 miles out. Those are extremes for us, so I don't see how range is an issue...unless you are working with 15+ mile customers for the majority...again, most of us are not. Antenna wise, there are available products from LMG to max out the EIRP. Anyone can do those shields for any type of antenna...regardless of UBNT or Canopy. The problem is, yes you can get 40 customers on an AP...split it up into sectors and get maybe 120. Do the same on Canopy, and it's 600+ clients per site. So, if you are looking to only do 120 (with perfect 0 interference from outside sources, which is highly unlikely in his urban market)...it scales. If you want more...you get the picture. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp I am not disagreeing with the advantages of Canopy. No doubt Canopy is a quality carrier grade type system. BUT, to be fair There are other factors to consider.. 1) Syncing can be effective for spectrum reuse, and extremely useful. But, it can become less effective and sometimes can still be subject to self-interference as the nework grows, such as when the sub's distince away from towers varies drastically between sectors. The reason us that sectors can hear CPEs behinds it in some capacity, not just teh CPEs in front of it. For example, IF sector 1 has a sub at half mile, and Sector2 has sub at 10 miles. Sector2 may hear sector1's sub louder than it hears its own subscriber 10 miles away. For syncing to work optimally without self interference, all the Client's signal levels at the AP ideally should be received at similar signal strenth, so that the Front to back ratios of sector antennas is enough to isolate the two sectors. Whether that is possible may depend on the frequency range you use, and what antennas are available to easilly deploy. With Canopy C/I spec of 3db helps a lot, but the plastic case lets more noise reach the unit. We ran into this when comparingto Trango. trango only had about 7db C/I, but the thick metal case had muchbetter F?B than Canopy did, so it average out. 2) Canopies have signficantly shorter range because by default config (integrated antenna models) they use APs and SUs with lower DB antennas and wider beamwidths, so not able to operate at peak EIRP. Also note that gain by antenna has a double effect. Meaning for an AP, it increases the receives from CPEs as well as the transmits to CPEs. So a large penalty is taken if an AP has an lower DB antenna than competing products. Canopy has many different models now, and antenna design is not the same with them all, so I dont mean to stereotype the product line. In an Ubquiti AirMax solutions, they have optimally strong sector antenna options. And they have the flexibilty for a wide array of antenna choices for CPEs. That flexibility can be useful, and it is affordable to achieve. Saying that Ubiquiti wont be able to scale, and one day will need to be pulled out, is not necessarilly true. There are enhancements to beef up Ubiquiti. For example, some jsut made a nice steel antenna shield, that adds a huge amount of Front to back ratio teh the Ubiquiti antenna. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.com To: j284...@yahoo.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp if you are not going with moto, then the ubiquity airmax stuff would be as good a choice as any. you might get 20 business class subs per ap and you should be able to get 3 120deg sectors on the roof. you will run into self interference problems at around 20 subs per AP. unfortunately you will already be committed to the ubiquity and there is no
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
Show me the day that a UBNT product can have 160+ clients connected to it with sub 10ms ping times to them all. I cant. Canopy wins that one, atleast in PtMP mode. (Tenant building is different story, where we have a few CPEs to AP, but a lot of customers behind each CPE). If a super cell site design is needed, thats where Canopy and Trango shine. The Trango is calls because the capacity sucks. I dont agree with that, considering Trango has more capacity (9mbps) than a non-advantage basic Canopy AP (7mb aggregate, but less each way when a fixed ratio in each direction is configured, required for syncing). Obviously, Advantage series Canopy has more capacity, if the shorter range that product requires is acceptable for the coverage footprint. 2. Range wise, we have Moto clients 18 miles out. MikroTik/UBNT, we had them at 22 miles out. Those are extremes for us, so I don't see how range is an issue...unless you are working with 15+ mile customers for the majority...again, most of us are not. Antenna wise, there are available products from LMG to max out the EIRP. Again, I dont question that canopy scales better or the possibilty to get 18 mile range. But that claim is a bit misleading. We need to recognize noise floor and rain factor are also factors, that restrict range to less than the theoretical or ideal case range. Maybe in 2.4G or 900M 18 mile is typical, but not in 5.8 or 5.3. Lets use a link budget calculator and do the math... Trango 5.8Ghz AP... tx 22, ant 14, CPE 22tx, ant 25.@ 12 miles = -72 rssi. leaves 10db of fade margin, since sensitivity is -82 or so. Canopy specs are pretty close to Trango, but not sure exactly what they are, so guessing here... For Canopy 5.8Ap lets assume all the same specs, except the AP antenna only has an 8dbi int antenna. The maths says -78 rssi, and only 4.5db fade margin. Lets see what happens when we try to get 10db of fade margin equivellent to Trango, meaning -72 rssi the results are 6 miles. Exactly 1/2 the range of the Trango, with same size customer premise antenna. But do you really want to use a dish at customer sites? Lets do the math for 18 miles, and the Canopy will yield -82 rssi. Does one really want to operate a link without any fade margin? The problem gets worse with Canopy 5.3, at low power, where antenna gain is absolutely needed to get distance. A 14bi at AP and 15 SU will just barely get 2 miles with 10db of fade. 8db Canopy AP with Behive on CPE (at legal power limits) gets you 1 mile with same fade margin at the AP side. 8dbi antenna is a handicap. (again math may not be exact, if canopy has better sensitivity than written). I recognize a Canopy AP could use an external antenna, to make up for it. But there is an extra cost for that. Or a Beehive to up the CPE gain, but again a cost for that. I also recognize we were originally talking about comparing Ubiquiti to Canopy, (not trango). But the same principles apply. Sure a Canopy DSSS system will have more range than an OFDM one requiring higher modulation and worse sensitivity. But more comparable Advantage series also has half the range of a regular Canopy to keep this conversation fair. But again, with Ubiquiti I can get an AP operating at full EIRP by default, and have options for non-dish CPE units of higher gain than 8dbi. If someone looks at Canopy, I highly recommend that they consider higher gain AP antenna options. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp 1. While I don't disagree with most of what you are saying, show me the day that a UBNT product can have 160+ clients connected to it with sub 10ms ping times to them all. One single AP, passing 7mb aggregate of traffic. I've had Trango, Canopy, and a huge pusher of MikroTik (same proto as UBNT). Canopy by far beats them in scale, there is no question about it. Most non-Canopy people don't want to hear it, but I started drinking the Moto Kool Aid about a year ago. My support calls of customers on Trango vs Canopy vs Mikro/UBNT is astounding. For every 50 service calls, about 8 of them are for Canopy customers, where the installer did not properly use the correct size antenna or alignment was off. The others are Mikro/UBNT problems from interference or other issues. The Trango is calls because the capacity sucks. 2. Range wise, we have Moto clients 18 miles out. MikroTik/UBNT, we had them at 22 miles out. Those are extremes for us, so I don't see how range is an issue...unless you are working with 15+ mile customers for the majority...again, most of us are not. Antenna wise, there are available products from LMG to max out the EIRP. Anyone can do those shields for any type of antenna...regardless of UBNT
Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband
Please note that I said refundable tax credits. That is, if your credits are more than your taxes, you get a check back. This could be done so that your refunds would be quarterly. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:24 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband Considering past tax rebates, or credits, to take full advantage would require that you are way in the black. This would help newer WISP somewhat, but most are in the red from the beginning. It would definitely help sustained WISP's that have been at it for a few years. Scottie -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband
Tom, I've always assumed that the debate on this topic is going to be out of public view. What I've said is not news to anyone, it's not any secret and being proposed to WISPA publicly will change nothing, influence nothing, in terms of how anyone else chooses strategy or positions. I hope it's well debated. I hope you eventually reach a point where your policy stands at WISPA are publicly advocated and clear. I'm waiting. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:58 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] How the FCC Proposes the Regulate Broadband MDK, I applaud your Email. It will take some time to fully digest all the relevent points that were addressed. I dont agree with everything that you suggested, but I do agree with a signfiicant part of it. One realization that you brought up which I agree with is regarding that we will reach a time where a line will need to be drawn in the sand, and we'll need to know which side of the line we are going to be standing on. On some of these topics, playing both sides simply isn't going to be possible. I have a couple quick comments 1) Anything posted on the general list will be google indexed for the world to see. Including the apposing side. In my opinion, it is not wise to debate WISPA's strategy to combat these important issue, in that environment. For that reason, I have been disccussing NBP and TItleII reclassification topics on the member list which is only available to wispa members to read. Its also important that WISPA represent's WISPA member. When debating on an open list, its really hard for me to decipher which comments are comming from members and which are not. For example, a Verizon lobbiest could be masking themselves as a WISP, and I'd never know. I'd also like to re-engage legislative committee list, to start formulating a plan, so members list does not get saturated with policy posts. I welcome members to join legislative committe who are interested in debating this. The more members that join the committee, the bigger the change the conclusion will be a reflection of member's opinion. 2) I think much debate is needed regarding strategy for these important topics. I think its to early to ask members to vote on what our stance should be. Because there has been little debate to challenge potential stances, and many members may not yet be fully versed with all the facts, so some may make an uninformed decission, that could have results different than what they expected by taking their stance. 3) Stategy is needed. Its easy to come up with what we want. The hard part is to justify and convince policy makers to give us that. And what we want may not be realistic to achieve. This is serious business, we dont want to pick a stance that will leave us with nothing at all at the end, because we didn;t face realitiy. We cant forget that FCC and Congress also already have an idea of what they want. There are many complicated issues here. Its not that I dont want to poll members, I am very interested in what they have to say and think. But there is also a huge advantage to creating a think tank environment first, challenged by council, and to share results with memebrship for them to consider before deciding their position.. For example, Congress and FCC have an obligation to help consumers, and consumers want their broadband options improved. To help, money is needed. USF has been identified as a money source, by the FCC and Congress. Its very unlikely they'll vote to wipe out a money source that actively regenerates funds. Its so much more likely they'll try to repurpose those funds, to solve a problem. Sure we can fight to shutdown USF, many of us would prefer that, but the flip side is if USF is not shut down, and we do not lobby for how to best repurpose it, it will be guaranteed that fund will go to or competitors in mass proportions, and we will get harmed by that, I'd argue possibly even extinguished by that. Another example was BTOP Round2. In Round2, much funds will go for inter- networking government locations. In one sense its an outrage that huge amounts of money will go to build networks that may not be needed, and take revenue away from the price sector providers. And few WISPs will see a dime of it. But on the flip side it was possibly a victory. What it also meant was that WISP's last mile networks will be less likely to get overbuilt. Last mile monoploies will be less likely to get created. And the most Rural areas were targeted, so less chance of a WISP's prime subscriber base market being over built. OR for example, many can argue money was most needed for Last mile, but lobbying
Re: [WISPA] Becoming a Wisp
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 18:12 -0400, Jerry Richardson wrote: Your Moto bias will cost you. Here we go againthis is not NECESSARILY true. Let's not start this whole thread again...ok? -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
