--- On Tue, 19/10/10, ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
Date: Tuesday, 19 October, 2010, 15:21
> > "Is it the case that zazen and other zen practises, over a long period of
> > time, under the guidance of an accredited Zen master, can alter the
> > neurophysiology of the brain, resulting in the experience of
> > 'enlightenment' or equivalently, the realisation of one's 'Buddha
> > nature'?" --ED
> Hi ED:
> Thank you for the trust you have put on me by asking me the below main
> question posted yourself. That sounds a very American question. Here in
> Europe we never heard of these kind of questions about zen. It sounds a
> question to make more appealing the practise of zen to people.
Do you feel that it is disrespectful and discounting of zen to have asked such
What does it make you think that I think that your questions are
disrespectful?. It didn't crossed my mind of your questioning being
disrespectful in any way.
> I don't don't know whether the practise of zen alters the neurophysiology of
> the brain resulting in an enlightened experience or not. I can certainly tell
> you out of myself direct experience that there is a gradual transformation
> within oneself.
Yes, and that is why the statement says "... over a long period of time ..."
> This transformation has nothing to do with any kind of magic ...
Both Bill and I agree that zen is a natural process.
Indeed is a natural process. Did I not say myself the same perhaps with
different words or perhaps even the same or similar words?
> ... or alteration of any kind.
Several studies of the brains of deep and experienced meditators show
anatomical and physiological differences from the brains of non-meditators.
I don't know ED. I never went to any examination of that kind and nor anyone
who I know who is in the practise of zen. Have you ever meet for real these
people?. And if not why to bother with something like this?. In which way
this will useful to you?
> According to my personal experience zen is very far of being an alteration of
> any kind, ...
The changes have to be detected by CAT scans, fMRIs, and so on.
He...!. I don't know. But it sounds very funny!.
> ... well on the contrary. There is no excitment, no dualism and therefore no
> attachments while experiencing buddha nature.
It takes phenomenal changes to transform the perpetually excited, continually
thinking, dualistic modern man into one who experiences 'just THIS' in every
I wouldn't be as pessimistic as that. Anyone can have a glimpse of that at any
moment. The difficult thing is not to experience that but to keep into
that continuous flow of the here and the now. That is the real difficulty and
not as much as to have the experience of just This. The mind will always play
its dualism, attachments....but one can always experience the just this between
breaks. This is the whole point of sitting down or zazen in all its ways or
mindfulness or awareness..
> Buddha nature is not an static state either. It's something that comes and
> goes as everything else. With the difference that there is the key to get
> one into that state at any time one wants to be there. And the key is
> practise, practise, practise....Easy to say and not as easy to be put into
This is true and is compatible with a neurological model.
What do you mean that is compatible with a neurological model?. Can you
elaborate a bit here?
> It seems that in your question there is also a condition for that alteration
> in the brain to happen; and that is that in order to that experience to take
> place one should be guided and trained by an accredited Zen Master.
> Let me tell you with all due respect that a real zen master won't ever guide
> to an student to any altered state.
I believe you.
And if you hear a Master of his/her students to say that then walk away
because you'll be finding yourself with a fake. Be very cautious with this
because your way of approaching is asking to be manipulated by non real zen.
Do not ever trust the "magic". Zen is not magic but tedious and boring to the
Mayka, your advice makes good sense, and I promise to be ever-vigilant.