I'm glad to hear that. By the way, has anyone heard from Peter Danner
lately?
On Jan 19, 2010, at 8:06 AM, Edward Martin wrote:
Yes, I talked with Art last week. He is fine and well.
ed
At 05:26 PM 1/18/2010, Rainer wrote:
Dear lute netters,
has anybody heard from Arthur recently?
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Dear Rainer, dear all,
I have to ask everybody's pardon for the poor quality of the
reproduction - I have digitalized a film, which itself had been copied
from another film years ago, with my home equipment. No professional job
though, :(, but as it may be that even such a copy is now a rarity I
I've seen Paul O'Dette use repeated rest strokes in the bass, sometimes for
fairly fast lines that I would take with p-i alternating (free) strokes. On
the other hand, I've seen Robert Barto occasionally use rest strokes in the
treble.
There are an awful lot of paintings (especially, but
I would imagine that if the thumb is playing repeated notes on lower courses
(with thumb out technique) while a note is required on the chanterelle, that
some contact with the second course could occur.
Not a deep rest stroke like some flamenco guitarists do, but light contact
resulting
On Mon, 2010-01-18 at 14:54 +, Martin Shepherd wrote:
Thanks Martin en daniel for the interesting reply!
My feeling is that playing technique could have been a reason. What
I understand from several players is that a double second on a baroque
lute doesn't work very well, although perhaps a
Hi All,
I have always regarded the rest stroke with the thumb as being a kind of
fundamental, a starting point. It doesn't have to be agressive, it's
just a way of making sure that both strings of a course are struck fully
and at the same time. I was taught (and hence still teach) that the
Thanks, Taco.
Of course conversions sometimes involved other changes. The point about
the 10-11c conversion is that it could be done with the minimum of
changes. Perhaps we make too strong a distinction between renaissance
and baroque lutes. My guess is (based on my own experience of many
No, I have not heard from Peter Danner, but I do not know him well.
ed
At 03:34 AM 1/19/2010, G. D. Rossi wrote:
I'm glad to hear that. By the way, has anyone heard from Peter Danner
lately?
On Jan 19, 2010, at 8:06 AM, Edward Martin wrote:
Yes, I talked with Art last week. He is fine and
As has been alluded in many replies, lutes don't necessarily stay in tune
when subject to variable environments. The question might be more
appropriately phrased as What makes lutes going out of tune less
problematic?
One thing I have not seen mentioned is minimizing friction over the nut.
This
Chris All:
The rest stroke for the thumb seems a logical means to both produce a
strong bass and teach the thumb to keep track of diapasons, although
there is no specific referral to this technique by name in any written
historical source I've seen. The term 'rest stroke' seems to
On Jan 19, 2010, at 8:09 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:
With one exception, nearly
all our notable baroque lutenists of today use a thumb-under
technique. This even applies to a lutenist I've seen in a
recent video
who is described as never having played renaissance lute. What
gives?
Why don't baroque lutenists today use what is an unquestionably
obvious historical technique?
My idea about this is : they study how it should be done, then they do how
it is easyer for them... (I'm speaking about pros...)
For me, I'm not sure how it should be done, and I'm doing how I'm
Hello from Sunny Singapore!
I was feeling whimsical and wondering what stickers other lute players
put on their lutes. The FRAGILE and THIS WAY UP ones I presume are
reasonably common (and commonsense), but since so many of us are
quirky folk, I'd imagine we have some pretty
A casual, oft-made observation: Gut seems to me to react more to humidity
while synthetics and wound strings react more to temperature. Wire-wound
organic multiilament strings (like silver-wound silk) are a double wammy.
Eugene
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Before 9-11 happened, Terry Schumacker used to have yellow hazardous
radiation sticker on his lute case.
ed
At 05:16 AM 1/19/2010, Edward C. Yong wrote:
Hello from Sunny Singapore!
I was feeling whimsical and wondering what stickers other lute players
put on their lutes. The FRAGILE and THIS
A sticker on the Violoncello case of a friend of mine reads: Play it? I
can hardly carry it!
All best,
Joachim
Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com schrieb:
Before 9-11 happened, Terry Schumacker used to have yellow hazardous
radiation sticker on his lute case.
ed
At 05:16 AM
Phillippa Dunne had a Human Remains sign,
on hers.
RT
- Original Message -
From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
To: Edward C. Yong ky...@pacific.net.sg; Lute List
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 12:16 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Stickers and Decals
Before
My old 8 course had two big, loud, bright yellow MYSTERY SPOT
stickers on its case. The Mystery Spot is a small area near Santa
Cruz, Ca. with gravitational/magnetic anomalies that turned into a
tacky (but still scientifically interesting) tourist location. I have
never taken anyone else's
One of my 13c's has NYCTaxi Passenger Rights, Rates and other TLC stickers
on it.
The other has a Happiness is under my kilt. sign.
RT
- Original Message -
From: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 12:37 PM
Subject: [LUTE]
I am also a bit puzzled by an unquestionably obvious historical
technique.
RT
- Original Message -
From: Sauvage Valéry sauvag...@orange.fr
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 12:11 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thumb rest stroke
Why don't baroque lutenists
Thanks, Martin - this makes sense to me.
Ned
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Absolutely, Eugene. While my nylgut or nylon strings remain quite
stable day to day, I find myself having to retune the wound strings
daily. Mostly downward (they get sharp). So obviously they are
binding at the nut. I really must take them off and see if I can file
the nut
The thing I find extremely puzzling in the 'awful lot of paintings' you
mention is that, for late 16th and almost all 17th century examples,
there is a nearly uniform depiction of a thumb-out technique, which is
also described clearly in written sources. With one exception, nearly
Well, I have wondered too, if - as I've read - Dowland evolved from
thumb under to thumb over as he played lutes with more courses, why
thumb over is not more commonly used. But then, I definitely hear and
feel a significant difference between the two approaches when I manage
to
You know, the Mystery Spot[s] are actually architecturally engineered
optical illusions. I know of another two in my Great Lakes-region stomping
grounds: the UP of Michigan and the Wisconsin Dells.
I currently have a MandolinCafe.com and a St. Croix fishing rods stickers.
I have gone through
Ron,
Good points. I'm working on exactly this point.
The main issue with true thumb-out is getting a decent and - far more
importantly - _consistent_ sound out of the treble strings. There clearly was
a marked aural difference between the too positions that the baroquenists
admired.
My lute cases are distinguished by the ever present Warning: Beware of
the Lute Player stickers. A women had an ebay store that made them for
the longest time but it's now defunct.
Danny
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Eugene C. Braig IV
[1]brai...@osu.edu wrote:
You
I have been dealing with this issue regularly since making the baroque
lute my primary solo instrument. For me, when my hand is rotated more
horizontally into thumb under position, I have a much larger target
zone on the pads of my index fingers from which to get what I at least
When I play a 13c. I cannot access the low basses with any reliability without
playing with my fingers practically parallel to the higher register strings. I
can play closer to the bridge, or not for tone difference, but rotating my hand
to more of a thumb open is not an option. I do use rest
Martin said: There is a parallel, of course, in the open chord
tunings used by folk (and even rock) guitarists these days
...and Hawaiian and blues guitarists in the (19)20's and 30's, and Mrs.
Pratten et al. in the 1870's...
People are always messing around, looking for a
Hello Dan,
I enjoyed your videos and am impressed by your seeming equal fluency
with both right hand techniques. The sound of the viheuela and lute
are quite different, so I wouldn't say I could make a judgement about
differences in the sound of both techniques. But, as I say,
It is very similar to a rest stroke, and yet very different.
When using the two fingered graze, the fingers can either rest or
brush against each other.
Also, you can create the motion of the stroke without the ending,
which can produce the same or similar sound--after the finger has
left the
I've usually interpreted rest like finger position when tuning as
damping, although quilling pairs would certainly be an option if
you count beats when tuning.
dt
At 05:10 AM 1/19/2010, you wrote:
I've seen Paul O'Dette use repeated rest strokes in the bass,
sometimes for fairly fast lines
Danny
--- On Tue, 1/19/10, Daniel Shoskes kidneykut...@gmail.com wrote:
Not sure about your nearly all our
notable baroque luteniststs play
thumb under comment Ron. Barto started
thumb in but now plays thumb
out, as do Richard Stone and Nigel North.
I have seen Liddell and
My recording experience is that on double strings the rest stroke
strikes the strings in sucession, so that there is a very slight
stagger (very slight, but audible and visible in the string
interference pattern), whereas an elliptical stroke with the thumb
resting on both strings and pushing
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Ron makes some good points, as usual.
But there are surely more than one who play thumb out for later stuff
and thumb in for earlier stuff. Still a minority. There just aren't
very many Thumb Center and Thumb Stretched players, which are
commonly depicted and described.
I'll go out on a limb
We don't know that Dowland played thumb over, he could very likely
have played thumb stretched which produces a completely different sound.
Try it, it takes 10 minutes to learn. Stretch your thumb as far as it
will go, so it is taught, like a bow.
And if thumb under, or inside or tips up is
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