The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 115 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: E46 M3 track brake pads Re: E46 M3 track brake pads Re: E46 M3 track brake pads Re: E46 M3 track brake pads Re: E46 M3 track brake pads Re: E46 M3 track brake pads Re: R-4 > PF9x > Blue > HT-10 Re: [personal] E36: Max spacer size with standard lug bolts? Re: [uuc] re: sway bars (from last week!) Re: [uuc] re: sway bars (from last week!) Re: [uuc] re: sway bars (from last week!) '98 540 6 speed Sport for sale! Re: E46 M3 wheel fitment Re: Misguided R&D: Blind Spot Detector <non-BMW> Re: Misguided R&D: Blind Spot Detector <non-BMW>
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:10:40 -0500 From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E46 M3 track brake pads Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Andy wrote: > I have used the PF97 compound but was not > happy with the rotor wear and metal dust from driving > to and from events. ding ding ding ding. don't drive to & from events on track pads. they don't get up to temperature and are less effective (less safe) than street pads and will (as you've noted) tear up the rotors as well as wear out the pads much quicker than in track-only use. changing pads at the track only takes an hour or so once you get the hang of it, so save your pads, rotors and wheels & learn how to do it. not trying to be harsh or anything, but you're asking for trouble driving track pads on the street... Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:37:31 -0500 From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E46 M3 track brake pads Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Andy wrote: > > > I have used the PF97 compound but was not > > happy with the rotor wear and metal dust from driving > > to and from events. > Ben responded: > ding ding ding ding. don't drive to & from events > on track pads. they don't get up to temperature > and are less effective (less safe) than street pads > and will (as you've noted) tear up the rotors as > well as wear out the pads much quicker than > in track-only use. > > changing pads at the track only takes an hour or so > once you get the hang of it, so save your pads, rotors > and wheels & learn how to do it. > > not trying to be harsh or anything, but you're asking > for trouble driving track pads on the street... To which I would chime in... yeah, what Ben said. Your R-compound track tires can also be trouble on the street. (Ask local law enforcement.) I would agree with Andy that it would be nice for there to be a compromise pad -- like a high-performance all-season tire (oxymoron?) -- that offers increased performance with only minor inconveniences in terms of noise, rotor wear, and dusting. I thought the R4 pads weren't bad in 2 of 3 aspects. And hey, the garbage-truck squeal will announce to everyone at the intersection: "Hey you! I've got special brake pads on my car (or garbage truck)! Can you guess where I'm headed?" If Andy can rally like-minded PF90 supporters and get his favorite pads on his car, I say more power to him. Good luck Andy. -Jay 1993 325is -- whatever-it-came-with pads for the street and some combo of Hawks and Porterfields for the track (installed there) 1995 VW VR6 GTi -- Porterfield R4-S for the past year (ex-daily driver headed for a new home) 1998 Honda Civic CX -- just got it, haven't had the wheels off (32 mpg city on 87 Octane this week - one point for the new2me daily driver) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:28:43 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E46 M3 track brake pads Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > changing pads at the track only takes an hour or so > once you get the hang of it, so save your pads, rotors > and wheels & learn how to do it. This is especially true with Ben's bling-bling brembo brakes which only require a pin to be pulled out, not the whole cailper removed from the bracket & swung loose!!!!! :) > > Ben Lee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:07:07 -0500 (EST) From: Joel Gallun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E46 M3 track brake pads Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> If you liked PF90s you will probably like Carbotech XP9s. Very similar performance. -- Joel Gallun ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:52:02 -0500 From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E46 M3 track brake pads Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lee wrote: > > changing pads at the track only takes an hour or so > > once you get the hang of it, so save your pads, rotors > > and wheels & learn how to do it. > > This is especially true with Ben's bling-bling brembo brakes which only > require a pin to be pulled out, not the whole cailper removed from the > bracket & swung loose!!!!! :) actually I've done all four corners on the E30 in around an hour as well, but the STi's are absurdly easy. it can take more time to get the jack correctly situated under the front subframe and get the wheels off than it does to actually change the pads. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:52:04 -0800 From: John Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E46 M3 track brake pads Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > possibility). I have also run the Porterfield R4s, > but they do not have the bite and sustained torque > of the PF90s and do not have as high upper temp > range (i.e. they fade on hot summer days). Funny, your experience is exactly the opposite of my own. I've always regarded the PF90 as a good pad for easy-on-brakes tracks, or wet days at Laguna Seca or other brake-killer tracks, or a good rear pad in conjunction with something more serious in front. The R4 being the next step up from that, and the Hawk Blue the next step up from there. John. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:56:39 -0500 From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: R-4 > PF9x > Blue > HT-10 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> this is very odd. I don't think I've ever heard anyone note an R-4 as being a more agressive or otherwise more effective pad than any PF9x. the progression I've always heard (and experienced) is R-4, PF9x (or PF0x now), Hawk Blue, Hawk HT-10. there are also various Pagids which fit into there somewhere. Ben John Miller wrote: > I've always regarded the PF90 as a good pad for easy-on-brakes tracks, or > wet days at Laguna Seca or other brake-killer tracks, or a good rear pad in > conjunction with something more serious in front. The R4 being the next > step up from that, and the Hawk Blue the next step up from there. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:11:33 +0200 From: "Pavel Tcholakov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [personal] E36: Max spacer size with standard lug bolts? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks, all I wanted to know. I might have a bit of a problem sourcing studs locally, but I don't think those look ugly. Sounds like the best way to go if I have several different wheel sets. Cheers, Pavel > -----Original Message----- > probably 0mm. The thinnest spacers I've seen are 5mm and > IMHO at that point you need longer lug bolts. > ... > Granted, the studs are ugly, but on a race car who cares. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:17:57 +0200 From: "Pavel Tcholakov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] re: sway bars (from last week!) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Where would one find more information about this? Pavel -- Mr. Dumb Question :-) > -----Original Message----- > Measure your understeer coefficient then you will > know. > > Gary [Mr. Skidpad] Derian > > > about 19mm. Do I even want to stiffen the rear sway > > bar, given 500lb springs and Koni SA shocks up into > > solid mounts, and urethane rear trailing arm > > bushings? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:02:16 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] re: sway bars (from last week!) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You need a basic engineering text on vehicle dynamics. In a nutshell I can describe the method. Understeer is when the front tires have more slip angle than the rear tires. The front wheels steer, he rear wheels do not. The vehicle yaws to create rear tire slip angle. Drive on a skid pad (marked circle about 100 ft diameter) at very low speed, mark the steering wheel. Drive at a faster speed, mark the wheel again and time a lap. Increase speed and repeat. Plot steering wheel angle vs lateral g. Knowing the steering ratio, you can calculate the difference in slip angle front to rear. The graph will be linear up to 0.5 g or so then curve as understeer increases as you approach the cornering limit. The slope of the linear zone is the understeer coefficient. I like to see 1 to 1.5 degrees per g. A twitchy car needs more understeer to be stable. Camber, toe, inflation, deflection steer, bump steer, roll steer and more affect the twichiness. The goal is minimum understeer consistent with a tame tail. Tire size, tire stagger, weight distribution, differential locking characteristics and more affect understeer as power is added. Tha ability to add power early in a corner to lengthen the straight is one way to get better lap times. Shock absorber force vs velocity curves affect handling during the transitions from straight to corners. Once the basic mechanical grip is established, then the aerodynamic effects are added. Gary Derian --- Pavel Tcholakov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Where would one find more information about this? > > Pavel -- Mr. Dumb Question :-) > > > -----Original Message----- > > Measure your understeer coefficient then you will > > know. > > > > Gary [Mr. Skidpad] Derian > > > > > about 19mm. Do I even want to stiffen the rear > sway > > > bar, given 500lb springs and Koni SA shocks up > into > > > solid mounts, and urethane rear trailing arm > > > bushings? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:17:28 +0200 From: "Pavel Tcholakov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] re: sway bars (from last week!) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks, Gary. Far more than I expected. Can you recommend any such book that's suitable for someone interested in understanding vehicle dynamics and handling but not necessarily to the level of engineering of say building a car from scratch? I.e. something for an enthusiast rather than a pro in the field? Pavel > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Derian > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:02 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [UUC] [uuc] re: sway bars (from last week!) > > > You need a basic engineering text on vehicle dynamics. > In a nutshell I can describe the method. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:19:54 -0800 (PST) From: Donn York <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: '98 540 6 speed Sport for sale! Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> OK, spring is officially here, the summer wheels are back on the car, and it's time to crank up the marketing of the car: '98 BMW 540 6 speed Sports Package Cosmos (metallic) Black exterior saddle leather with black dash and accents (very sporty) interior 49,000 miles Xenon headlights BMW integrated phone optional 17x8 and 17x9 BMW alloys ski sack (passthru to trunk) heated Sport seats heated steering wheel (I thought it was dumb but use it every day...) 6 CD changer extra set of 16" BBS wheels and Blizzaks BMW synthetic oil every 5k coolant flush and brake flush every 2 years new water pump, O2 sensor, camshaft sensor newer tires and battery no track/autocross/smoking/abuse In great shape, inside and out. Needs nothing and everything works. Asking $27,000, but definitely flexible. Ping me if you're interested. Thanks, Donn Hinsdale, IL (suburban Chicago) '98 540/6 '97 328iA __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:41:04 -0500 From: "Bill Heumann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E46 M3 wheel fitment Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Trying to make sure this isn't US marketing at work to >make us M3 owners purchase the much more expensive 2-piece >RKs. I can't speak to the fit of these particular wheels but I have found several 17" x 8.5" wheels with 40 et to fit (for snow tires and track) despite all of the sites saying they won't. Maybe someone at BBS can explain where the rub point is. I think you are right to be skeptical. Regards, Bill '02 E46 M3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:35:17 -0500 From: "GA Carnut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Misguided R&D: Blind Spot Detector <non-BMW> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >In MA, *SP on your cell phone will get you the State Police to report a >reckless or drunk driver, accident, etc. Probably a better/safer idea than >trying to chase the guy down. For all you know he has a pair of 9mm >pistols, a knife, and his girlfriend's head in a trash bag on the passenger >seat (like a guy in RI did last week). Dunno if GA has a similar cell >shortcut for the staties, but if not it might be worth programming their >number into your cell for such occasions. > >Brian >'94 325ic No, but being this is GA, don't we all carry multiple knives and 9mm's?? Or has everybody upgraded to .45 cal like me and my buddies... ;-) What I need is one of those roof-mounted Gatling Guns that the dude from Monster Garage had on his suburban... now that'd be fun! Chip Chip Mautz '65 Austin Healey Sprite '88 BMW 528e '03 Chevy Suburban I didn't grow up - my toys just got more expensive. Your mileage may vary. My odometer broke years ago... _________________________________________________________________ All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:05:49 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Misguided R&D: Blind Spot Detector <non-BMW> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Actually, in GA, you can dial *GSP. I would recommend this over chasing ANYBODY down. FWIW, I would've slowed way down before coming up on you like that. Lee > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of GA Carnut > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 08:35 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [UUC] Misguided R&D: Blind Spot Detector <non-BMW> > > > >In MA, *SP on your cell phone will get you the State Police > to report a > >reckless or drunk driver, accident, etc. Probably a > better/safer idea than > >trying to chase the guy down. For all you know he has a pair of 9mm > >pistols, a knife, and his girlfriend's head in a trash bag > on the passenger > >seat (like a guy in RI did last week). Dunno if GA has a > similar cell > >shortcut for the staties, but if not it might be worth > programming their > >number into your cell for such occasions. > > > >Brian > >'94 325ic > > > No, but being this is GA, don't we all carry multiple knives > and 9mm's?? Or > has everybody upgraded to .45 cal like me and my buddies... ;-) > > What I need is one of those roof-mounted Gatling Guns that > the dude from > Monster Garage had on his suburban... now that'd be fun! > > Chip > > > > Chip Mautz > > '65 Austin Healey Sprite > '88 BMW 528e > '03 Chevy Suburban > > I didn't grow up - my toys just got more expensive. > > Your mileage may vary. My odometer broke years ago... > > _________________________________________________________________ > All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN > Sports by > ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ______________________________________________________________ > ____________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of > the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
