The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 320 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Wheel balancing Re: Wheel balancing Re: Wheel balancing <E30> FS (2) Kosei K1 racing wheels 15x7 (4 bolt) E30 Garage Sale Wheel Fitment question Re: Wheel Fitment question Re: Wheel Fitment question Re: Wheel Fitment question Re: Wheel Fitment question Re: Wheel Fitment question Re: Wheel Fitment question Re: Wheel Fitment question Re: Wheel Fitment question E30 M3 turbo video
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:43:31 -0500 From: "BMWBits" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Uucdigest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Wheel balancing Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> All this prattling on about TIRE balancing ..but I dont hear one word about having the WHEELS checked for balance before the tires are mounted .....the wheels usually weigh (17-20 lbs ?? ) about the same as the tire , with a fair amount of the weight in the rim of the wheel -so any imbalance will show up in the sum-total out-of-balance . Next time you buy new wheels , BEFORE you let Bruno da Bull bend em on the tire machine , run em thru the balancer ...you may get some nasty surprises ...dimensionally AND gravitationally !! Many yrs ago (early 1960's ) a friend of mine working as an engineering student doing summer work at Rolls-Royce partook in a design-build-test series for a multi-axis wheel balancing machine specifically used to ensure the wheels were 'right' before they ever saw the tires .There are many reasons why it is logical to do so today with short-section high performance wheel/tire combinations (something about ONLY put your building on a good foundation ??). Ask your local friendly NASCAR or F1 driver or crew-chief ... Bill Proud Ex Rolls-Royce (aero-engines ) QA Engineer . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:03:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Wheel balancing Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Checking the wheel balance before mounting tires might be interesting, but the useful thing to do is measure the wheel runout, both radial and lateral. Mount the high spot of the first harmonic of the radial force variation of the tire (this is marked on each new tire) with the low spot of the wheel runout. Gary Derian --- BMWBits <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > All this prattling on about TIRE balancing ..but I > dont hear one word > about having the WHEELS checked for balance before > the tires are mounted > .....the wheels usually weigh (17-20 lbs ?? ) about > the same as the tire > , with a fair amount of the weight in the rim of the > wheel -so any > imbalance will show up in the sum-total > out-of-balance . > Next time you buy new wheels , BEFORE you let Bruno > da Bull bend em on > the tire machine , run em thru the balancer ...you > may get some nasty > surprises ...dimensionally AND gravitationally !! > Many yrs ago (early 1960's ) a friend of mine > working as an engineering > student doing summer work at Rolls-Royce partook in > a design-build-test > series for a multi-axis wheel balancing machine > specifically used to > ensure the wheels were 'right' before they ever saw > the tires .There are > many reasons why it is logical to do so today with > short-section high > performance wheel/tire combinations (something about > ONLY put your > building on a good foundation ??). Ask your local > friendly NASCAR or F1 > driver or crew-chief ... > > Bill Proud > Ex Rolls-Royce (aero-engines ) QA Engineer . > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 22:16:07 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Uucdigest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Wheel balancing Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > All this prattling on about TIRE balancing ..but I dont hear one word > about having the WHEELS checked for balance before the tires are mounted > .....the wheels usually weigh (17-20 lbs ?? ) about the same as the tire > , with a fair amount of the weight in the rim of the wheel -so any > imbalance will show up in the sum-total out-of-balance . > Next time you buy new wheels , BEFORE you let Bruno da Bull bend em on > the tire machine , run em thru the balancer ...you may get some nasty > surprises ...dimensionally AND gravitationally !! > Many yrs ago (early 1960's ) a friend of mine working as an engineering > student doing summer work at Rolls-Royce partook in a design-build-test > series for a multi-axis wheel balancing machine specifically used to > ensure the wheels were 'right' before they ever saw the tires .There are > many reasons why it is logical to do so today with short-section high > performance wheel/tire combinations (something about ONLY put your > building on a good foundation ??). Ask your local friendly NASCAR or F1 > driver or crew-chief ... A couple of points: - Wheels are usually built in such a way with higher tolerance for being well balanced much more so than how tires are built. Obviously, a bent rim is another issue all together but if it is bent to any significance, no amount of balancing in the world will offset the issue. - Tires are located further from the axis, so, balance is even more important. - The primary item you can check on the wheel is to find the low point of wheel runout and match mount the tire (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/matchmounting.jsp) F1 wheels are small and they use a pretty tall tire, they really don't support your comments about short-section high performance wheel/tire combinations. Later, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:06:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: <E30> FS (2) Kosei K1 racing wheels 15x7 (4 bolt) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Gruppe, I have two of these wheels for sale, $100 each + shipping from 48034 (Detroit area). They should fit E30 325s and E30 318s plus I'm sure various VWs. 15"x7" 27mm offset. These are very light wheels. Carlos. Pics below: http://members.roadfly.org/clopez95m3/PICT0001.JPG http://members.roadfly.org/clopez95m3/PICT0002.JPG http://members.roadfly.org/clopez95m3/PICT0003.JPG http://members.roadfly.org/clopez95m3/PICT0004.JPG http://members.roadfly.org/clopez95m3/PICT0005.JPG __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:25:03 -0400 From: "karl j Rentler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: E30 Garage Sale Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Passengers door for a 2 door E30, color is red. Has all internals, mirror not included. $100 E30 Black carpet: Good condition $75 E30 Manual steering column (non Airbag). $50 E30 Aluminum front bumper and spoiler: (from racecar) held on with linch pins and dezus fasteners $40 Shipping not included, Located in Detroit area. Karl Rentler 87' 325i #747 KP 91' 535i _________________________________________________________________________ Live, laugh, and chat with friends about BMWs, Porsches, Jaguars and the new MINI at The World's Largest Auto Enthusiast Site http://www.roadfly.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:20:48 -0400 (EDT) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Wheel Fitment question Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Is there anywhere to go to understand wheel fitment across different BMW models. I have a set of 15x7 wheels from an E36 I'm selling, and I was asked if they would fit on a 1989 7 series (apparently same tire size). TIA. Marc Plante E36 M3/4 Vienna, VA Marc Plante [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:14:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Wheel Fitment question Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Is there anywhere to go to understand wheel fitment across different > BMW models. Yeah ask da wheel pimp Ben Keyes. :-) > I have a set of > 15x7 wheels from an E36 I'm selling, and I was asked if they would > fit on a 1989 7 series (apparently same tire size). Guessing here but using wheel pimp superpowers of deduction, since E32 15x7s fit E30 M3s which like a 25-30mm offset, and E36s prefer more of a 35mm offset then I would guess the E36 wheels would sit too far inboard and would probably need a small spacer. You tell us what the offset of your wheels are and we tell you what spacer you need. My guess 5 or 10mm, a 10mm would be hubcentric so probably would be best. Carlos. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:29:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Wheel Fitment question Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The 7 series, an E32 has much larger tires than the E36. 225/60R15 or 235/60R15. They are about an inch taller than E36 tires. Gary Derian --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Is there anywhere to go to understand wheel fitment > across different BMW models. I have a set of > 15x7 wheels from an E36 I'm selling, and I was asked > if they would fit on a 1989 7 series > (apparently same tire size). > > TIA. > > Marc Plante > E36 M3/4 > Vienna, VA > > Marc Plante > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:26:59 -0400 (EDT) From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Wheel Fitment question Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I don't know of any series-spanning wheel fitment guides (there is a good one for E28's & I'm sure someone has done something for E30 M3's) but I can answer your specific question here. a 15x7 E36 wheel is going to be in the 30-40mm range for offset. factory wheels are all in the 38-41mm range IIRC. an E32 is going to want more like a 20mm range for a 7" wheel. less offset means the wheel is tucked farther under the fenders and the inside edge is closer to the strut housings. (you probably knew that.) because you can _reduce_ offset with the use of spacers it would be possible to run the wheels you have on an E32, but to achieve the necessary reduction to make them fit close to the way the factory intended you'd need rather large spacers - 15-20mm. 15mm (or any in fact) will require longer lug bolts to ensure proper thread engagement. spacers of 20mm or more are usually the bolt-on type which actually bolt the spacer to the hub & use the existing lugs to bolt the wheel to the spacer. you can expect to pay between $70-$125/axle for spacers, depending on what brand you get & where you get them from. so while your wheels will fit this guy's car, he's likely to have to spend quite a bit of money to make them work. incidently, you cannot _increase_ offset of a wheel without machining the mounting surface of the wheel, which would not be somthing to be undertaken lightly, even if there was sufficient material on the wheel to allow a meaningful increase in offset. Ben lots of 15" E32 wheels... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Is there anywhere to go to understand wheel fitment across different > BMW models. I have a set of 15x7 wheels from an E36 I'm selling, > and I was asked if they would fit on a 1989 7 series (apparently same tire size). ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:36:47 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Wheel Fitment question Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <trying this again, the first attempt from around 1 didn't make it thru for some reason.> I don't know of any series-spanning wheel fitment guides (there is a good one for E28's & I'm sure someone has done something for E30 M3's) but I can answer your specific question here. a 15x7 E36 wheel is going to be in the 30-40mm range for offset. factory wheels are all in the 38-41mm range IIRC. an E32 is going to want more like a 20mm range for a 7" wheel. less offset means the wheel is tucked farther under the fenders and the inside edge is closer to the strut housings. (you probably knew that.) because you can _reduce_ offset with the use of spacers it would be possible to run the wheels you have on an E32, but to achieve the necessary reduction to make them fit close to the way the factory intended you'd need rather large spacers - 15-20mm. 15mm (or any in fact) will require longer lug bolts to ensure proper thread engagement. spacers of 20mm or more are usually the bolt-on type which actually bolt the spacer to the hub & use the existing lugs to bolt the wheel to the spacer. you can expect to pay between $70-$125/axle for spacers, depending on what brand you get & where you get them from. so while your wheels will fit this guy's car, he's likely to have to spend quite a bit of money to make them work. incidently, you cannot _increase_ offset of a wheel without machining the mounting surface of the wheel, which would not be somthing to be undertaken lightly, even if there was sufficient material on the wheel to allow a meaningful increase in offset. Ben lots of 15" E32 wheels... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Is there anywhere to go to understand wheel fitment across different > BMW models. I have a set of 15x7 wheels from an E36 I'm selling, > and I was asked if they would fit on a 1989 7 series (apparently same tire size). ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:58:57 -0600 From: "John Riganati" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'ben keyes'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Wheel Fitment question Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ben Keyes wrote... >less offset means the wheel is tucked farther under the fenders >and the inside edge is closer to the strut housings. >because you can _reduce_ offset with the use of spacers Forgive the ignorance here, but I'm confused by these two statements. If you put in a spacer, aren't you moving the inside edge of the tire further away from the strut housing? If less offset means moving it closer to the strut housing, how does a spacer reduce the offset? And if you machine the surface of the wheel, this would move the inside edge toward the strut housing, so how does this increase offset? Just trying to understand the terminology - John -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ben keyes Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [UUC] Wheel Fitment question I don't know of any series-spanning wheel fitment guides (there is a good one for E28's & I'm sure someone has done something for E30 M3's) but I can answer your specific question here. a 15x7 E36 wheel is going to be in the 30-40mm range for offset. factory wheels are all in the 38-41mm range IIRC. an E32 is going to want more like a 20mm range for a 7" wheel. less offset means the wheel is tucked farther under the fenders and the inside edge is closer to the strut housings. (you probably knew that.) because you can _reduce_ offset with the use of spacers it would be possible to run the wheels you have on an E32, but to achieve the necessary reduction to make them fit close to the way the factory intended you'd need rather large spacers - 15-20mm. 15mm (or any in fact) will require longer lug bolts to ensure proper thread engagement. spacers of 20mm or more are usually the bolt-on type which actually bolt the spacer to the hub & use the existing lugs to bolt the wheel to the spacer. you can expect to pay between $70-$125/axle for spacers, depending on what brand you get & where you get them from. so while your wheels will fit this guy's car, he's likely to have to spend quite a bit of money to make them work. incidently, you cannot _increase_ offset of a wheel without machining the mounting surface of the wheel, which would not be somthing to be undertaken lightly, even if there was sufficient material on the wheel to allow a meaningful increase in offset. Ben lots of 15" E32 wheels... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Is there anywhere to go to understand wheel fitment across different > BMW models. I have a set of 15x7 wheels from an E36 I'm selling, and > I was asked if they would fit on a 1989 7 series (apparently same tire size). ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:09:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: John Riganati <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'ben keyes'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Wheel Fitment question Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- John Riganati <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ben Keyes wrote... > >less offset means the wheel is tucked farther under the fenders > >and the inside edge is closer to the strut housings. > > >because you can _reduce_ offset with the use of spacers > > Forgive the ignorance here, but I'm confused by these two statements. > If you put in a spacer, aren't you moving the inside edge of the tire > further away from the strut housing? Correct. >If less offset means moving it closer > to the strut housing, how does a spacer reduce the offset? Since he's always correcting me, yes that statement was dead wrong, less offset is closer to the fender/away from the strut housing. I shall strip him of wheel pimp status for that one. :-) Carlos. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:24:01 -0700 From: "J. Ochi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Wheel Fitment question Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 09:58 AM 8/16/2004, John Riganati wrote: >Ben Keyes wrote... > >less offset means the wheel is tucked farther under the fenders > >and the inside edge is closer to the strut housings. > > >because you can _reduce_ offset with the use of spacers > >Forgive the ignorance here, but I'm confused by these two statements. If >you put in a spacer, aren't you moving the inside edge of the tire further >away from the strut housing? If less offset means moving it closer to the >strut housing, how does a spacer reduce the offset? > >And if you machine the surface of the wheel, this would move the inside edge >toward the strut housing, so how does this increase offset? "Offset" is the distance from the centerline of the wheel to the face of the hub. It can be positive, where the face of the hub is towards the outside of the wheel from the centerline. It can also be negative, where the face of the hub protrudes past the centerline of the wheel, so it's towards the back (inside) of the wheel. BMW wheels have a positive offset, so the hub doesn't protrude past the centerline of the wheel. If you add a spacer, you put material between the face of the hub and the centerline, thus reducing the offset of the wheel. If you machine the face of the hub, you move it away from the centerline of the wheel, thus increasing the offset of the wheel. Now, if you have a negative offset wheel, the reverse is true. Adding a spacer increases the offset of the wheel; machining the face of the hub decreases the amount of offset. We shouldn't have to worry about this, since we're talking about BMWs. But, if you have a 41mm offset E36 wheel, and you add a 50mm spacer, you'll end up with a negative offset of 9mm... Looks like Ben got the first example wrong - less offset on a BMW wheel will move the wheel out, away from the strut housing and towards the outside lip of the fender.... Jim Ochi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:48:38 -0600 From: "John Riganati" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'J. Ochi'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'Carlos Lopez'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Wheel Fitment question Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jim and Carlos, Thanks for the clarifications. "Offset" is one of those terms that I've always understood in general, but never quite knew the specifics. John - smarter than this morning -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J. Ochi Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 11:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [UUC] Wheel Fitment question At 09:58 AM 8/16/2004, John Riganati wrote: >Ben Keyes wrote... > >less offset means the wheel is tucked farther under the fenders and > >the inside edge is closer to the strut housings. > > >because you can _reduce_ offset with the use of spacers > >Forgive the ignorance here, but I'm confused by these two statements. >If you put in a spacer, aren't you moving the inside edge of the tire >further away from the strut housing? If less offset means moving it >closer to the strut housing, how does a spacer reduce the offset? > >And if you machine the surface of the wheel, this would move the inside >edge toward the strut housing, so how does this increase offset? "Offset" is the distance from the centerline of the wheel to the face of the hub. It can be positive, where the face of the hub is towards the outside of the wheel from the centerline. It can also be negative, where the face of the hub protrudes past the centerline of the wheel, so it's towards the back (inside) of the wheel. BMW wheels have a positive offset, so the hub doesn't protrude past the centerline of the wheel. If you add a spacer, you put material between the face of the hub and the centerline, thus reducing the offset of the wheel. If you machine the face of the hub, you move it away from the centerline of the wheel, thus increasing the offset of the wheel. Now, if you have a negative offset wheel, the reverse is true. Adding a spacer increases the offset of the wheel; machining the face of the hub decreases the amount of offset. We shouldn't have to worry about this, since we're talking about BMWs. But, if you have a 41mm offset E36 wheel, and you add a 50mm spacer, you'll end up with a negative offset of 9mm... Looks like Ben got the first example wrong - less offset on a BMW wheel will move the wheel out, away from the strut housing and towards the outside lip of the fender.... Jim Ochi Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:15:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ruiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: UUC Digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: E30 M3 turbo video Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In watching this video, it looks like the driver turns the wheel sharply left and right as he takes off from the line. Is this to counteract fishtailing from the torque, or am I mistaken in what I see? Brian 93 325 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
