The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 322 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: E46 323Cic Window problem Re: Vin stickers Re: Vin stickers Re: Vin stickers Re: Vin stickers Re: Vin stickers Re: Vin stickers 328iC questoin Re: Vin stickers Spring rate distribution vs. weight distribution Re: Spring rate distribution vs. weight distribution Re: Spring rate distribution vs. weight distribution Re: Spring rate distribution vs. weight distribution Re: Source for parts Wanna go to Lime Rock on a Saturday in August?
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:39:52 -0400 From: "Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "UUC Digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E46 323Cic Window problem Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Is your car dealer serviced? Your dealer has open discretion on "out of warranty" repairs up to 5000 miles or 6 months beyond the factory warranty period. For these repairs, they do NOT need authorization from BMW. If you have a good relationship with your dealer, ask them to take care of it under "good will". Brett Anderson KMS > -----Original Message----- > My passenger window on my 2000 323Cic is not working. > I was rolling it up and I heard a somewhat loud > popping sound. Tried to roll it up after that and it > goes up about half way and makes some kind of a > grinding noise. If I push on the window when its half > way up it falls down. > > My warranty just expired 2 weeks ago...ugh!, Any > suggestions? Not planning on fixing myself (unless is > really easy) just don't wanted to get the shaft from > the local repair shop. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 8/11/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:51:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Vin stickers Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yes Gary Derian --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In looking at used E30's we made sure that the door, > trunk and fender Vins > matched with the dash Vin (from a past thread on the > Digest). But we found > on two of the cars that the driver side Vin sticker > was "DOT R". Is this an > indication of a replacement part? > > -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 07:31:15 -0500 From: "Weimer, Matt J." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "BMW Digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Vin stickers Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Speaking of Vin stickers, I have heard that the newer cars no longer have them. Is this true? I have also heard that new replacement panels no longer come with the DOT-R designation? Just trying to determine fact from fiction, thanks. Matt Weimer '86 325i '88 325iS won't shift Original Message: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:40:47 -0400 From: "Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Vin stickers Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Exactly, that was a new replacement panel (as opposed to a used one off another car showing a different VIN). - Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:04:10 -0500 From: "Jamie Howton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Vin stickers Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Speaking of Vin stickers, I have heard that the newer cars no longer have them. Is this true? My 2002 330i has the VIN stamped into the sheetmetal of the shock towers with a clear plastic sticker on top. I haven't noticed the older style VIN stickers anywhere on the car. Regards Jamie Howton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:14:38 -0400 From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Vin stickers Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> yes and yes. The legislation expired and was not re-enacted. Ineffective. Ed Weimer, Matt J. wrote: >Speaking of Vin stickers, I have heard that the newer cars no longer >have them. Is this true? > >I have also heard that new replacement panels no longer come with the >DOT-R designation? > >Just trying to determine fact from fiction, thanks. > >Matt Weimer >'86 325i >'88 325iS won't shift > >Original Message: >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >----------------------------------- >Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:40:47 -0400 >From: "Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: Vin stickers >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Exactly, that was a new replacement panel (as opposed to a used one >off another car showing a different VIN). > >- Rob > >Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >__________________________________________________________________________ >In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > >UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:21:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Vin stickers Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> How refreshing. Much more legislation should be that way. Gary Derian --- Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > yes and yes. > > The legislation expired and was not re-enacted. > Ineffective. > > Ed > > Weimer, Matt J. wrote: > > >Speaking of Vin stickers, I have heard that the > newer cars no longer > >have them. Is this true? > > > >I have also heard that new replacement panels no > longer come with the > >DOT-R designation? > > > >Just trying to determine fact from fiction, thanks. > > > >Matt Weimer > >'86 325i > >'88 325iS won't shift ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:24:58 -0400 From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Vin stickers Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Also low production cars were never required to have them. Don't go looking for them on a Z1 or an 850CSi. Ed Ed MacVaugh wrote: > yes and yes. > > The legislation expired and was not re-enacted. Ineffective. > > Ed > > Weimer, Matt J. wrote: > >> Speaking of Vin stickers, I have heard that the newer cars no longer >> have them. Is this true? > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:04:55 -0400 From: "Michael Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: 328iC questoin Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Folks, Helping the GF get rid of her 88 560SL conv and into a E36 328iC. We have found a car that possibly can be had for very cheap, but has issues. Given that it is a E36, I know most of the car like the back of my hand except 2 items. OBDII related items and Power top issues. This car has top issues, lol. 1997 328iC with full auto top It is the full power top meaning powered latching etc vs the single handle to latch the top. Problem 1. When opening the top, the deck lid hits the top frame and requires assistance in opening. Per Brett A's procedure to synchronize the top, it did not help the situation. Is there more adjustment needed or several synchronizing steps etc? Problem 2. When the top is almost folded there seems to be some fabric (headliner) not folding up smoothly in the top. Some searching suggests that it could be the elastic straps weakening or some other issue? I have read that BMW replaced lots of tops under warranty due to this issue. Guess my question is, how much allowance should I budget for a replacement top or having this one fixed. Does the Bentley manual cover the procedures? I replaced the manual top on my 88 325iC so I am not scared to jump into the nightmare job that it surely is. The E30 top was not bad at all, except the first time took twice the normal time due to the learning/cussing process. If the top is fixed and everything set correctly, can I expect the top to be reliable? Any complaints will be directed to me from the SO and avoiding those would be nice. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:04:55 -0400 From: "Michael Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Vin stickers Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Speaking of, you would be amazed at the number of people who see the vin sticker on the body panels BUT DO NOT check the number. DUH! DOT R means they actually used BMW replacement parts to fix the car vs no sticker which means $79.99 fender and $119.99 paper thin hood. Mike - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:46:56 -0400 From: "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Spring rate distribution vs. weight distribution Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Guys/Gals, Calling all suspension set-up experts! Okay, I've looked a lot of places trying to find information on chassis set-up relative to spring rates and can't seem to find an answer. How does one go about picking a relative wheel rate (notice I said wheel, not spring rate)? Is the wheel rate distribution supposed to match the vehicle weight distribution? For example, if my weight distribution is 55/45 should my front/rear effective wheel spring rate also be 55/45? This seems logical to me since the purpose of the spring is to support/suspend the weight of the car. So I checked the OE spring rates as well as my H&R sport spring rates to see how they compared to corner weights......I was surprised on more than one account. 1) How light the front springs are! The H&R sport spring rate is a mere 115#/in! Stock sport springs are nearly the same. 2) It appears that to support the weight of the car, the front suspension is riding ON the bump stop virtually all the time. This makes effective wheel rate determination very difficult. 3) The wheel rate distribution (not counting the progressive front bump stops!) does NOT mimic the weight distribution, it is much 'softer' in the front. The H&R sport springs show a 0.75 F/R ratio and the weight distribution is a 1.17 ratio. Hardly seems as if that would result in balanced handling? I was surprised to see that the front/rear effective wheel rates were not comparable to the weight distribution. I've collected a variety of data points and performed numerous measurements to try and calculate a desired F/R spring (wheel) rate distribution. I've yet to find any sort of definitive answer besides 'test and tune'. I just don't want to end up with a poorly balanced car since the H&R sport set-up (with Eibach anti-roll bars) was really well balanced. The spring rates are just too soft..... Oh, and every suspension kit maker I've found seems to vary wildly on what rate distribution is used on the same car. Any ideas? Please help or point me toward a source of info! Chet Dawes **************************************************************************************** Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and thus protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. **************************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:13:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Spring rate distribution vs. weight distribution Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Guys/Gals, > Calling all suspension set-up experts! Here's one on E30s, if anything it should be an interesting read for you, too bad I haven't found any of this applied to the E36. http://e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/susp-tech/index.htm Carlos E30 325is E36 325is __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:44:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Andy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Spring rate distribution vs. weight distribution Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Howdy, First, I'm _far_ from an expert on this stuff. I do think I know a couple things to help you move further along, but I hardly know how to take a model of a suspension & pick springs that are close outta the box. On Tue, 17 Aug 2004, chet.dawes wrote: > I was surprised to see that the front/rear effective wheel rates were > not comparable to the weight distribution. In addition to the weight distribution, I think you also need to consider the CG height and the roll center height at each end of the car. The longer the distance between those (presuming the roll center is under the cg like it would be on anything I've ever heard of), the more spring/wheelrate you need to counteract chassis roll. There are ways to predict all this stuff (I hear people talk about a suspension's "natural frequency" when talking about how they pick spring rates and damper rates), but I don't know how it works. SAE has a paper called: "A Primer on Nonlinear Steady-State Vehicle Turning Behavior" (#741096). I think this answers some of these types of questions, but I haven't been able to get time to study it yet. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:45:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Spring rate distribution vs. weight distribution Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> As you might expect, life isn't so simple. Vehicle dynamics are a combination of many factors. The most important ones are weight distribution, weight transfer distribution (roll stiffness distribution), power and drive wheels. Most RWD cars have about 80% of the roll stiffness at the front. Vehicle stability is also affected by lateral and roll stiffness. A wallowy car needs more built-in understeer to cover the transients. For road use, springs are chosen to 1) provide a decent ride frequency, and 2) so the rear frequency is enough higher than the front to cancel pitching. F=2pi*sqrt(k/m) K is spring rate, m is sprung mass. For racing, the front is typically even stiffer to let the rear tires apply power in a turn. A ride frequency of 1 is pretty soft, 1.2 to 1.5 getting stiff for road use, and 2 or higher for the track. If the car has large aerodynamic loads, then springs are tuned for that. Your best bet is to tune handling on a skidpad, not necessarily to get the best skidpad performance, but to dial in known amounts of understeer via tire inflation, anti-roll bar size and other track adjustible items. So when you get to the track and you need a bit more push, you will know just how to get it. Transient tuning is much more difficult and depends mostly on shock bump and rebound. A skid oval is good for that. Make one turn twice the radius of the second turn. Test in both directions. Don't forget corner weights and cross weights as both a setup item and a tuning tool. Tire temperatures are very important and will indicate tire loads and performance that a driver may not recognize. Gary Derian --- "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Guys/Gals, > Calling all suspension set-up experts! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:31:59 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Source for parts Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For you denizens in the SF Bay area I happened onto a source for things like Precision Instruments torqure wrenches (50 -250ft/lb , $159.99) or the mity-vac fluid evacuator (like Griot's I believe). Builders Market is the place 650-554-8865 -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:02:24 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "911" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "BMW List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Peter A. Lombardo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Wanna go to Lime Rock on a Saturday in August? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Tired of getting shut-up of registration for driver's ed/track events at Lime Rock? Wish you could get some laps in, especially on a SATURDAY? Preferably when it's warm (as opposed to being snowed on)? Well, on Saturday, August 28 (a week from this Saturday), "The Connecticut Chapter of the Alfa Romeo Owners Club is pleased to invite you to our annual Driver's School and Practice. In spite of escalating track and insurance costs, we have done everything possible to keep the fee increase as small as possible while still allowing us to impose a car limit per day to maximize your track time. For more information, please contact Peter A. Lombardo at [EMAIL PROTECTED] "This year will be a one-day event only. We will continue our focus on classroom and track instruction for the less- experienced drivers and practice sessions on the track for the more-experienced veterans. To maximize track time, all cars must come to the track pre-tech. inspected. As is our custom, the first group will be on the track at 9:00 AM sharp, the earliest that local ordinances allow. AROC-CT has the reputation of running the smoothest and safest track event around, and this year will be no different. We will have paid comer workers to reduce down time between run groups. Please join us for this wonderful event. "Direct any questions (or anyone wishing to volunteer to help) to Mario at (914) 693-7426 evenings. E-mail at [EMAIL PROTECTED], or fax anytime at (914) 693-1636. "Agenda: Classroom instruction will be available to all drivers who want it, and is required for all less-experienced drivers. Selected driving instructors using helmet intercoms for instant communication between the driver and instructor will be available for individual in-car instruction. Experienced drivers will be given open practice sessions, instructors available. Driver Requirements: You must be at least 18 years of age and have a valid driver's license. Helmets: Snell 1995 or later - we will check for the sticker, so please be certain it's there. Drivers of open or targa-top cars are required to have face shields! No motorcycle helmets will be allowed! Also, we reiterate that safety equipment (seat belts, roll-bar coverage) must be identical for driver and front passenger. Those of you with open cars will need to have an SCCA-legal roll bar that extends 2 inches above both driver's and passenger's helmets - insurance rules no longer allow cars with street roll bars onto the track. Clothing: Long pants and long-sleeved shirts; Cotton required, Nomex recommended. No open shoes. Minimum Ages: No person under the age of 18 shall be on the track or in the hot pits. A parent or guardian must accompany all spectators under the age of 18. "2004 AROC-CT Drivers School and Practice Application Form � Each driver must have a separate registration - you may photocopy this form. � Only one car per driver, but drivers may share a car (separate numbers will be issued). Name:___________________________ Street City:_____________State:___Zip: Phone: (___)_________FAX: ( )_____ E-mail:_______________ Driver's License No:_________________ State: Car (Make):___________ Car (Year /Model):___ Car Reg. & State:_____________ ___ Car Owner: How many times have you driven at Lime Rock?_ What is a typical Lime Rock lap time for you in this car?_ Please list any other track experience: I have read the Event Information and agree to abide by the standards contained therein. I understand that if my car does not meet the requirements for street-legal exhaust, roll-bar, tech inspection, seat belts, and related matters, and that if I do not supply an appropriate helmet and clothing, I will not be allowed to run in this event and there will be no refund of the application fee which must accompany this application. I understand that if my check bounces and I do not make good on it, the matter will be turned over to a collection agency. Signature:_________________________ Date: Driver's School and Practice - Saturday, August 28 - 7:30 AM to 5:00 PM Cost: AROC Members - $230, Non-Members - $250 Amount Enclosed: (Make checks payable to "AROC-CT") Mail this form (with your check made out to AROC-CT) to: Mario Romagnoli, 27 Hilldale Road, Dobbs Ferry, NY 10522-2012. � Upon confirmation, you will receive an information packet containing event information, technical inspection forms, directions, maps, track schedules, etc. _______ vty, --Dennis ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
