The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 502 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Cheap Jump starter and Spotlight at PepBoys Re: M6 & what's the M3 Competition Pckg??? Re: M6 & what's the M3 Competition Pckg??? Re: M6 & what's the M3 Competition Pckg??? Re: M6 & what's the M3 Competition Pckg??? Re: M6 & what's the M3 Competition Pckg??? Re: M6 & what's the M3 Competition Pckg??? M6 Re: Re: Rotors Re: Re: Rotors Re: Re: Rotors G35 Brakes Re: G35 Brakes Re: To be fair... Re: Speed Warning Function
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:01:22 -0600 From: Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Cheap Jump starter and Spotlight at PepBoys Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I carry Rally "Boost-It" portable jump start batteries in all the cars (and got one for my wife's car and daughter's car). I picked them up on sale at K-Mart for $20, no rebate. This week PepBoys has a larger (in theory higher capacity) model from Vector for $19.98 after $5 rebate. This one also has a work light (but only a single cig socket). You can also use these as portable power supplies for 12v stuff, using the included cig socket. Comes with a wall wart supply to recharge and also a cig socket so you can recharge it in the car. http://tinyurl.com/5ebwr I was able to jump start a v-8 with a DEAD battery using my smaller Boost-it. To me, these are MUCH better than carrying jumper cables - no risk of frying the donor car's computer, batter, or alternator using one of these. Unlike those gimmick ones that connect to via the lighter socket - these do require you connect to the dead/weak battery, but they WORK! PepBoys also has a Coleman rechargeable spotlight for $7 after rebate. I picked up the same/similar item on clearance from RadioShaft a while back and it too works well. Perfect for fixing a flat or other roadside emergency. There is a safety on the off/on trigger to prevent you from turning on the light by accident - this also serves as an "on" lock. Press the lock, squeeze the trigger, release the lock and then the trigger and the light stays on. I lasted over 10 minutes while we changed a flat on my daughter's car. Also includes car and home charger. Hard to beat for $7. Note that plugging in the charger turns OFF the light - since it draws more current than the charger can supply. So if the battery runs out you can't use it plugged in. http://tinyurl.com/6hrjk BMW content: you should get one of each and put them in your BMW :-) Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:03:58 -0800 (PST) From: Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: M6 & what's the M3 Competition Pckg??? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Robinson, Lee wrote: > P.S. I saw an ad for the M3 competition package. According to the ad, it > adds the euro brakes, & 19" wheels. Is that it? How much does this cost? According to the BMW press release, the ZCP has: Compound and cross-drilled brake rotors. Larger front brakes the front brake diameter increases from 12.8 to 13.6 inches (the rear diameter remains 12.9). 19 cross-spoke forged wheels with high performance tires. Steering ratio is more direct 14.5:1 vs. 15.4:1. Modified suspension calibration (shocks and springs) fine-tuned for larger wheels and cross-drilled compound brakes. M track mode a new DSC setting allows for sportier driving and less intrusive DSC intervention. The regular DSC setting is still the default, unless track mode is selected. Alcantara sport steering wheel (no multi-function steering wheel or cruise control buttons) and handbrake grip. Special aluminum trim and new exterior Interlagos Blue (A30) metallic paint. It costs something like $4000. The picture of it in the BMW ad on the inside cover of this month's Roundel is really pretty. --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:12:47 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: M6 & what's the M3 Competition Pckg??? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Jan 19, 2005, at 2:03 PM, Andre Yew wrote: >> P.S. I saw an ad for the M3 competition package. According to the >> ad, it >> adds the euro brakes, & 19" wheels. Is that it? How much does this >> cost? > > According to the BMW press release, the ZCP has: > > Compound and cross-drilled brake rotors. Which is really friggin' ironic since BMW NA has been telling us since 1995 that we weren't getting compound rotors for "legal reasons." - Mark ----- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:31:03 -0800 (PST) From: Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: M6 & what's the M3 Competition Pckg??? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Mark Dadgar wrote: > Which is really friggin' ironic since BMW NA has been telling us since > 1995 that we weren't getting compound rotors for "legal reasons." Does anyone know specifically why? Is it because they think Joe Schmoe won't periodically check for cracks in the aluminum hats, and they're worried about liability? With cross-drilled rotors, they should be worried about cracks from the holes and rotors, too I would imagine. --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:38:59 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: M6 & what's the M3 Competition Pckg??? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Jan 19, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Andre Yew wrote: >> Which is really friggin' ironic since BMW NA has been telling us since >> 1995 that we weren't getting compound rotors for "legal reasons." > > Does anyone know specifically why? Is it because they think Joe Schmoe > won't periodically check for cracks in the aluminum hats, and they're > worried about liability? That's been my guess from Day 1. > With cross-drilled rotors, they should be > worried about cracks from the holes and rotors, too I would imagine. Word. (Porsche is smart about this - their holes are *cast*, not drilled) - Mark ----- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:00:26 -0800 (PST) From: Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: M6 & what's the M3 Competition Pckg??? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Mark Dadgar wrote: > (Porsche is smart about this - their holes are *cast*, not drilled) I've heard varying reports about this, with some people claiming cast holes will still cause cracks. Is this true? BTW, if anyone's interested in what cross-drilled rotors cracking looks like, check this out: http://www.devtools.org/mt/rus/archives/000078.html These are StopTech single-piece rotors on a Subaru WRX that's seen only autoX and everyday driving. --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:09:31 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: M6 & what's the M3 Competition Pckg??? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Jan 19, 2005, at 3:00 PM, Andre Yew wrote: >> (Porsche is smart about this - their holes are *cast*, not drilled) > > I've heard varying reports about this, with some people claiming cast > holes will still cause cracks. Is this true? Sure, but even undrilled rotors will crack. I've got a stack of them in the garage from the race car if you want proof. Come and get 'em. :) The difference in Porsche's case is that drilled holes interrupt the molecular structure of the metal, weakening it. Cast the holes in allows the grain of the metal to flow around the voids instead of being cut through in the drilling process. Not to mention that you get stress risers at the edges of the drill holes, even if you chamfer them. > These are StopTech single-piece rotors on a Subaru WRX that's seen only > autoX and everyday driving. See above. - Mark ----- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 17:06:28 -0500 (EST) From: John Drendel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[email protected]> Subject: M6 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I knew the original "CSL"; the original CSL was a friend of mine. I guess it was a big coupe compared to the 2000 CS, but it, and the 3.0 CS weighed much less than the 635 coupe, much less this thing. Will I see a model as beautiful as the E9 before I die ? Not at this rate. "I would be thrilled to see an M6 CSL ... remember the original CSL was a "big" coupe." John Drendel Departement d'Histoire Universite du Quebec a Montreal CP 8888 Succ. "Centreville" Montreal Qc. Canada H3C 3P8 514 987 3000 3687# ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 17:23:12 -0500 From: "Marc Plante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Re: Rotors Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I believe that the 350Z, a close cousin, offers brake upgrade packages. The motive might be to offer minimal brakes for what they hoped was a core demographic that doesn't (?!) use their brakes, with an upgrade for those that do... No other explanation. I know I had to do my Integra pads and rotors every 30k. There just wasn't much durability in them. Kinda like BMW water pumps, radiators and thermostats. We've been conditioned to think of those as 60k mi wear items. Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "P Kroon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [UUC] Re: Rotors Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:11:16 -0800 (PST) > > Marc, > > At the risk of sounding argumentative, this car was > driven almost exclusively on the highway and has NEVER > been raced. I've heard from others with G35s that > have been city driven, and the pads/rotors are lasting > approximately 10-12k miles. Heck, the oil is supposed > to be changed every 7.5k miles, that means I'd have to > replace the brakes almost every oil change! > > I realize that everything is a tradeoff, but doesn't > this sound a little abnormal? While the car brakes > well, it wasn't designed by a race team for the LeMans > series, so the same kind of tradeoffs that are made by > a race team are not really applicable. Not to mention > that people who have switched to aftermarket > rotors/pads (stock sizes) don't experience this kind > of wear, and have maintained or decreased the stopping > distance. > > The fact that the rear brakes are completely fine > tends to indicate to me that the front/rear bias is > off (though this is just a theory, and I have no > actual data to support this). > > -Paul > > --- Marc Plante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Depends on the car. Different engineers optimize for > > different things. I know that my early integra had > > rotors that wore about evenly with pads. They just > > didn't build much wear into them. Think it may have > > something to do with the fact that smaller rotors > > will heat up for lighter duty driving and grab > > better, though you trade off durability. Race teams > > make those tradeoffs. so do car manufacturers. > > > > Sounds like you need to find a Nissan/infiniti > > manual and learn how to do brake jobsa on that car. > > > > Marc Plante > > E36 M3/4 (needs a thermostat BADLY) > > Vienna, VA > > > > Search the > > > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > > founder of the BMW CCA. > > > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > > home of the Ultimate > > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! > http://my.yahoo.com > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:49:26 -0800 (PST) From: Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Re: Rotors Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Marc Plante wrote: > I believe that the 350Z, a close cousin, offers brake upgrade packages. > The motive might be to offer minimal brakes for what they hoped was a > core demographic that doesn't (?!) use their brakes, with an upgrade for > those that do... Argh. Allow me to rant. Over Xmas, I helped a friend change the brakes on his 350Z Track model (the one with the burnt-orange Brembo calipers and big rotors), and other than added thermal mass, I don't think their brakes are worth much. Here's how ridiculous the brakes are: 1. They cost $500 to $600 per rotor. Yes, per rotor. Even the dealer couldn't believe the price either until he checked his cost. 2. The rotors are one piece, vented (but no air pumping), just like bigger versions of what we have on our cars. 3. The thing eats brake pads (which are Brembo-branded). 4. The hydraulic feed into the calipers is a hard line whose other end is mounted to the suspension point. This means that if you want to change rotors, which requires moving the calipers out of the way, you have to: a. Disconnect the hard line, and hence have to flush the system. b. Have an extra pair of hands to help you use the slight flex of the hard line to shift the calipers away enough to wiggle out the rotors. 5. The StopTech OE replacement rotors, which are less than half the price of the OE versions, are two-piece, floating, lighter, and have pumping vanes. 6. To add insult to injury, and this wasn't Nissan's fault, the Hawk HP+ pads ordered for the car didn't fit the calipers! The backing plates were 1 mm too wide, so out came the Dremel. Apparently, this isn't uncommon for these pads. He's also now complaining that his car sounds like a dump truck because of these pads, and he got pretty sudden and bad pad fade somewhere in his third session at Laguna Seca going into turn 11. Apparently brake cooling is very bad on these cars. Someone else took his 350Z's new rear pads down to the backing plate after 2 days of driving school at Buttonwillow in the B or C group. Also, subjectively, the car was in general harder to work on, and didn't seem to have the same level of engineering as our cars. In my brief survey of other cars which use Brembo BBKs, like the Subaru WRX STi, Mitsu Evo, Acura TL (!!!), etc. they all look like they use one-piece rotors, and apparently all have very expensive replacement costs. I think a lot of owners are going to be surprised to see a racing-sized bill when it comes time to change their racing-style parts. --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:24:13 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: P Kroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: Re: Rotors Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- P Kroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The fact that the rear brakes are completely fine > tends to indicate to me that the front/rear bias is > off (though this is just a theory, and I have no > actual data to support this). Not necessarily, they could have been designed this way. For instance, my wife's Honda Accord applies the rear brakes slightly before the front brakes to reduce nose dive. That, combined with the much smaller rear brakes in the rear and her braking style results in them wearing out much faster than the front (twice as fast in my experience). So, if the front brakes were smaller or the rears larger, the rears didn't apply first, one jumped on the brakes harder, etc., one could wear out the fronts sooner. In your example, the rear pads could be thicker than the front, the rotors have more usable wear thickness in the rear, the calipers/rotors/pads are much larger in the rear compared to the front, etc. all causing the rears to last longer. My long-winded point is, the bias could be completely fine, it likely depends on many other factors. Regards, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:30:18 -0800 (PST) From: kjk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: G35 Brakes Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Actually, I think 37k is pretty darn good. My wife's 323iT gets 30k at the most out of a set of brakes. Those were free from BMW for a while but now I do them myself as BMW charges $600 an axle as well. The G35 is sports sedan and brakes rather well. Brakes are consumables and is just part of owning a car. Now, if they wore out every 10-12k that is a different story. I have been on that forum and saw lots of posts about that. Looks like Infiniti uses a real soft compound for those good braking distances. I wonder how well it does after 5 stops? Kevin Kelly '91 M5 '00 323iT (brake wear indicator just went off, doh) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:07:06 -0800 (PST) From: P Kroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: kjk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: G35 Brakes Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Kevin, "Actually, I think 37k is pretty darn good." Pretty darn good? If 37k is "pretty darn good", what is prety darn bad? I understand that brakes are "consumable" or "wear-and-tear" items, but technically EVERYTHING on the car will eventually wear out so the entire car is a "consumable". Your engine is a "consumable" and will eventually wear out and need to be replaced. I suspect, however, that you'd be less than pleased if you engine wore out in less than 37k highway miles (however, given your satisfaction with 37k brakes, maybe you'd just chuck that up to owning a car?). The focus is not on whether brakes are "consumables" (there's no denying that they eventually will need to be replaced), but rather whether the "consumption" is normal. Is less than 37k miles "normal" for a set of rotors/pads normal for a car driven on the highway? Chucking it up to "just part of owning a car" doesn't explain it to me. -Paul --- kjk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Actually, I think 37k is pretty darn good. My wife's > 323iT gets 30k at the most out of a set of brakes. > Those were free from BMW for a while but now I do > them > myself as BMW charges $600 an axle as well. > > The G35 is sports sedan and brakes rather well. > Brakes > are consumables and is just part of owning a car. > Now, > if they wore out every 10-12k that is a different > story. I have been on that forum and saw lots of > posts > about that. Looks like Infiniti uses a real soft > compound for those good braking distances. I wonder > how well it does after 5 stops? > > Kevin Kelly > '91 M5 > '00 323iT (brake wear indicator just went off, doh) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 17:31:23 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: P Kroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: To be fair... Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dude, Yer getting jacked--BIG TIME. I assume that this is the G35 WITHOUT the special Brembo brake package. It's possible that the pads may have completely worn out in this time since the G35 is a big car. However, you'd have to look at the driving too. If it's stop & go, this will wear them out quickly too. Is there a chance that your wife sometimes rides the brakes? This can be especially harmful if you live in a hilly area. It also depends on the compound, Infiniti may have really aggressive pads on soft rotors in order to provide feel & quiet operation. If the pads wore ALL the way to the backing plates, yes they would destroy the rotors, but they make a heck of a lot of noise when this happens. Now, on to the point. Have you looked yourself to see if the pads are worn out, or are you taking the dealer's word for it? This is a favorite scam of ALL shops with low morals....selling brake jobs long before they're required. 3 different Saab dealers told me my brakes were "less than 5%" over a 15k mile period. When I went to the dealer & pointed out how much pad was left, I said the calipers would have to be about 4 feet wide to accommodate 20x the width of pad. Everyone had the same standard price: $490 for front brakes only. I replaced the rotors & pads at all 4 wheels myself for about $100 in parts!!!!! Don't fall for this, take the car somewhere else. Actually, this is unusual, as Infiniti dealers are supposed to be known for their good customer service. The reason they're not replacing your brakes under the recall is that there's nothing wrong with them. If you do go somewhere else & find out the brakes are OK, I'd sure call Infiniti USA & complain--you'll probably get a lot of attention. Don't let yourself get screwed!!!! Lee->has made some scenes you wouldn't believe in dis-reputable (which is all of them) Saab dealers > > I suspect that some of you can away from the G35/BMW > discussion thinking that I'm completely pro Infiniti and > anti-BMW. This is really not the case (I did purchase a BMW) > and in the interest of being fair (and show that I'm not > pro-Infiniti), I'd like voice a complaint of mine regarding > the brakes on my wife's G35. > > The car now has 37k miles and is approx. 16 months old. The > brake light just came on so we dropped it off at the > stealership. They told us that the front pads/rotors need to > be replaced at a cost of $600! > The pads had worn all the way down and eat the rotors (they > never made a sound, and still don't). > > Infiniti has a "volutanary recall" for the brakes for a > period of 3 years/36k miles. Because I've got 37k, they > denied the claim. I was told the claim would be denied "even > if you were 1 mile over the limit". > Nice, huh. > > Am I off my rocker, or is less than 37k miles out of a set of > pads/rotors on a car driven 150 miles a day to work on the > highway not normal? The rotors were destroyed, so obviously > the pads/rotors needed to be replaced in less than 37k miles. > As I mentioned, this is my wife's car, and she doesn't drive > agressively and isn't "on the brakes" all the time. > > -Paul ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jan 2005 14:54:05 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Speed Warning Function Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Coupla reasonable, real world assumptions: 1) Your speedo reads high. 2) Your OBC is likely more accurate than your speedo. Based on those, your OBC is reasonably correct, and your speedo is fast. Others have explained in detail why the speedo reads fast. Auto gauges are consumer appliances. They are accurate to a few percent, and there is no compelling need for better accuracy. As long as speedometers are driven by axle or drive shaft speed, accuracy is limited by tire wear to about 2% at best. If you want laboratory accuracy (a fraction of one percent), be prepared to pay several thousand dollars more. Curt Ingraham 72 2002tii with 13% fast speedo Oakland, CA Paul wrote: > When I set the "Speed Limit" function on my onboard > computer to 80 mph, the warning doesn't go off until I > exceed the limit by exactly 5 mphs. Is is not that my > "true" speed is 80 mph when I'm going 85 mph, or is > it? If that's the case, then why don't they simply > set the speedo to read 80 mph instead of 85mph? ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
