Yup, what is it? Occam's razor or something similar - use the simplest
solution?
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> On 08/09/2015 8:22 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the insights. Looks like I may simply run an
"Tulip poplar" as you know is a misnomer for Liriodendron, a member of the
magnolia family. Fast growing but basically useless tree except for shade;
has a love affair with lightning due to high H20 content.
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote
On 08/09/2015 8:22 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
Thanks for the insights. Looks like I may simply run an extension cord
across the back 40 to the shed for the 2 week incubation period..
BINGO! WE HAVE A WINNER!
RB
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Discussion List
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
OSB??
Does ash split easily? IIRC black locust is numero uno in heat value but
extremely tough to split...
My favorite splitting wood is black walnut. Grain is unbelievably straight
t; From: Andrew Strasfogel
> To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
>
> Is ash categorized as a hard or soft wood for wood heat purposes? II
fogel
To: Curt Raymond ; Mercedes Discussion List
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
Is ash categorized as a hard or soft wood for wood heat purposes? IIRC it has
a sooty burn with low BTUs, much like poplar. Or not...
On Tue,
cess from that to warm the house,
> should drive down our oil and wood bill seriously.
> -Curt
> From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: Jim Cathey
> Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 12:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
>
y excess from that to warm the house, should drive down our oil and wood
bill seriously.
-Curt
From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Jim Cathey
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
> Medium-large
d bread. I need to upgrade our heat/hot water system to
support it first...
-Curt
From: Rick Knoble via Mercedes
To: fmiser via Mercedes
Cc: Rick Knoble
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
Philip writes:
>A quick look
es@okiebenz.com
Cc: fmiser
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
> Andrew wrote:
>
> There is no heat requirement. I use low wattage (?)
> seedling heat pads...
A heating pad is a heater.
> ... that draw almost no cur
A radio flyer takes the exercise down to nothing...
-Curt
From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Mitch Haley
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
All you really need are a couple of group 49 or 93
Good grief, I had no idea. Perhaps i should use solar hot water panels for
direct heat rather than PV. Anybody work with those?
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 12:19 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> Medium-large name brand home panels can be had for under $1 per rated watt.
Medium-large name brand home panels can be had for under $1 per rated
watt.
So figure $0.20-0.25 per daily watt-hour, plus mounts, wiring,
inverter, etc.
My after tax rate for electricity is 0.14+, so it can pay off in the
lifetime
of the equipment now, the bare PV panel cost can be recovered in
I guess I would be. All it does is raise the temperature at the base
of the
seedling flats to about 80 degrees.
All my 30kW electric furnace does is raise the temperature at the
base of the house to about 80 degrees.
Heat is expensive! Use the Kill-a-watt, and _know_.
-- Jim
__
Thanks for the insights. Looks like I may simply run an extension cord
across the back 40 to the shed for the 2 week incubation period..
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Philip writes:
>>
>> A quick l
Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:
Philip writes:
A quick look at Amazon for
prices results in almost $500 to >run two heat pads.
Which is why, without subsidies, solar makes NO economic sense.
Medium-large name brand home panels can be had for under $1 per rated watt.
So figure $0.20-0.25 p
Philip writes:
>A quick look at Amazon for
>prices results in almost $500 to >run two heat pads.
Which is why, without subsidies, solar makes NO economic sense.
Rick
Sent from my BlackBerry Z10
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To search list archives http:
All you really need are a couple of group 49 or 93 batteries, a battery charger
and a cheap inverter.
Every morning and evening, put a freshly charged battery in the shed and take
the other one to
the house and put it on the charger. Consider it free exercise carrying 50lb
batteries around.
Mi
> Andrew wrote:
>
> There is no heat requirement. I use low wattage (?)
> seedling heat pads...
A heating pad is a heater.
> ... that draw almost no current.
"almost no current" when there is 115 VAC in the wall outlet
is not the same as battery power!
> Typically these:
> http://www.amazon.
ould be at least twice that amount, and solar input
> > > should obviously be enough to exceed usage.
> > >
> > > I agree with others that the heat requirement likely would overwhelm
> the
> > > capabilities of a solar system.
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
>
okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Andrew
> > Strasfogel via Mercedes
> > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 10:11 AM
> > To: Mercedes Discussion List
> > Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
> > Subject: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
> >
> > I would like to electrif
a Mercedes
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 10:11 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
> Subject: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
>
> I would like to electrify my shed in the back 40 in order to provide 1)
> simple overhead lighting and 2) a 110V
Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Strasfogel via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 10:11 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
I would like to electrify my shed in the back 40 in
My bad. I'm guessing that is because of heating issues which would
be minimal outside, but I get it. I might even have known that at
some point. The single wire stuff is tmmw or something like that, it
has a higher temp rated insulation.
--R (sent from my miniPad)
On Sep 3, 2015, at 6:25 PM,
There are plenty of solar power kits, for example:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Grape-Solar-400-Watt-Off-Grid-Solar-Panel-Kit-GS-
400-KIT/203505963
Just Google: "110v solar power kit for shed"
But they aren't cheap if you get a useful capacity and they won't last near
as long as a buried cable.
>
> > On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:46:18 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via
> > Mercedes wrote:
>
> > Thanks - that helps. I wonder why there is no simple kit
> > that goes from PV to 110 V without all the
> > interconnecting parapernalia, battery, inverters, etc.
> Craig wrote:
>
> Because it cannot be done
Thanks - that helps. I wonder why there is no simple kit that goes
from PV
to 110 V without all the interconnecting parapernalia, battery,
inverters,
etc.
Because unlike a politician's promise, the 'kit' purchaser would
expect results and would be mightily pissed when the simple kit didn't
ac
I had a final plumbing and gas line inspection yesterday, the inspector
is a cool guy I like, he sorta looked at it for about 10 seconds and
signed off, we chatted for another half hour and he recommended I do the
rest of the work in the house without telling anyone about it. Turns
out he also
> On September 4, 2015 at 12:27 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
>
> We don't have glacial till (tilth is a term referring to the tillable
> quality of the soil) around here but rocks and roots are plentiful.
Using the vibrating blade on a Ditch Witch, roots get sawed through slow
off
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
>
> What happened to renting a DitchWitch and buying a spool of direct burial
> cable? How many feet is the run between the house and shed?
>
>
>
> > On Sep 3, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
>
ia Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> To:
> Cc: "fmiser"
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 9:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
>
>
> WILTON wrote:
>>>
>>> Buried mine for about 120' to outbuilding (a li
Yep.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "fmiser via Mercedes"
To:
Cc: "fmiser"
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
WILTON wrote:
Buried mine for about 120' to outbuilding (a little more
tha
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 22:45:42 -0400 Rich Thomas via Mercedes
wrote:
> The single wire stuff is tmmw or something like that, it has a higher
> temp rated insulation.
THHN
Craig
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To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archi
My bad. I'm guessing that is because of heating issues which would be minimal
outside, but I get it. I might even have known that at some point. The single
wire stuff is tmmw or something like that, it has a higher temp rated
insulation.
--R (sent from my miniPad)
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 6:25 PM
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:46:18 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
wrote:
> Thanks - that helps. I wonder why there is no simple kit that goes
> from PV to 110 V without all the interconnecting parapernalia, battery,
> inverters, etc.
Because it cannot be done without all the interconnecting para
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 20:12:34 -0500 Curly McLain via Mercedes
wrote:
> 120 V in a residential application is 12"
>
> http://www.irrigation.org/uploadedFiles/Certification/National%20Electric%20Code.pdf
> Scroll down to the first table.
Yes, that is correct! But you do need GFCI (in a 20 A or less
Curly McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
120 V in a residential application is 12"
http://www.irrigation.org/uploadedFiles/Certification/National%20Electric%20Code.pdf
Scroll down to the first
You could do it here, we've got mostly sandy loam. The camp in Maine however
its a fight going anywhere, glacial tilth full of rocks.
-Curt
From: fmiser via Mercedes
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: fmiser
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical
120 V in a residential application is 12"
http://www.irrigation.org/uploadedFiles/Certification/National%20Electric%20Code.pdf
Scroll down to the first table.
18" for commercial in plastic conduit. 24" commercial without conduit.
6" residential for low voltage
> WILTON wrote:
Buried m
> WILTON wrote:
>
> Buried mine for about 120' to outbuilding (a little more
> than a shed - a shed doesn't usually have a slate roof) 27
> years ago all by myself using a flat shovel to make a slit
> about 10" deep.
10 inches [25 cm] is not really deep enough to be safe. A
child and a shovel, o
- Original Message -
From: "Rich Thomas via Mercedes"
To:
Cc: "Rich Thomas"
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
Andrew, google the word "shovel" I have relocated my water line, dug up
my b
If ya can't stand the answer, don't ask the question.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Cc: "Andrew Strasfogel"
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT:
feet. 'Course, the
soil here is loamy and rock-free; the route also tree root-free.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Cc: "Andrew Strasfogel"
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 2:54 PM
> > > Rich wrote:
> > >
> > > 1" PVC conduit is cheap and no harder to bury than romex,
> > > plus you can run a phone line or something else in it
> > > too if you want.
> > PLEASE not in the same conduit!
> >
> > NEC (National Electric Code) won't allow it - because it's
> > not very safe.
> Ra
> > Andrew wrote:
> >
> > 60' uphill. :(
> Curly wrote:
>
> Easy! all you need is a trenching spade, an afternoon, and
> a 100' roll of #12 UF wire. (12-2 with ground)
60ft? One afternoon? That sounds like Iowa. *smiles*
Around here, there is so much rock and clay that it took me
and a fr
Agreed. +1 but, I'd suggest a trenching spade in place of a shovel.
Makes quicker work of it. Also, I've been told that you cant run
type NM ("romex") in a conduit as it is against code. Makes no sense
to me, but you have to use the "pulling type" (I forget the type)
single wires in condu
for solar: Much simpler to use a PV panel to generate, one or more
12V batteries to store, and 12vDC lighting and heater units. No
inverter needed unless you want to run a corded drill.
a century ago, the Delco light plant worked in a similar manner. A
generator, generating DC, batteries,
Electrical code book does NOT permit running Romex wire inside conduit.
Thus, you should not.
I suggest you rent a walk behind engine driven trencher. With reasonable
soil, you can trench 100 ft in 1 hr of run time to a depth of 18 inches.
Then lay "Direct burial Romex wire" into the trench. Lowes
60' uphill. :(
Easy! all you need is a trenching spade, an afternoon, and a 100'
roll of #12 UF wire. (12-2 with ground)
(oh, and a spare breaker space in the panel)
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To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
Andrew, google the word "shovel" I have relocated my water line, dug up
my buried power line, relocated my buried phone line (OK my wife did
that because she wanted to do something useful outside) using a shovel.
It is ancient technology. you only have to go down a little ways and
bury some
Inrush current.
Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:46:18 -0400
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> CC: astrasfo...@gmail.com; fmi...@gmail.com
>
> Thanks - that helps.
On 03/09/2015 3:49 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
Rich wrote:
1" PVC conduit is cheap and no harder to bury than romex,
plus you can run a phone line or something else in it too
if you want.
PLEASE not in the same conduit!
NEC (National Electric Code) won't allow it - because it's
not very saf
> Rich wrote:
>
> 1" PVC conduit is cheap and no harder to bury than romex,
> plus you can run a phone line or something else in it too
> if you want.
PLEASE not in the same conduit!
NEC (National Electric Code) won't allow it - because it's
not very safe.
__
How long is it going to be in use?
I assumed that your seedling warming is only for a short time.
Why would she object to the use of a cord for such a short term purpose?
RB
On 03/09/2015 2:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
Extension cord from the house to the shed would be vetoed im
So what you really need is a 100' extension cord for those times when you
actually need power...
-Curt
From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical
HF's panels are a scam, 45 watts for $180, Amazon has 100w for around $140 with
the charge controller.
-Curt
From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Rich Thomas
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
edes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
I would like to electrify my shed in the back 40 in order to provide 1)
simple overhead lighting and 2) a 110V outlet for grow mats under my
seedlings next spri
There probably is if you look around. It won’t be cheap, however.
Doing it yourself is really pretty easy. As previously described, you only
need three things:
PV panel
12V battery
Inverter (DC to AC)
Work backwards by calculating your load. If you’ve got 100W of 110VAC load,
you’ll need
Go and buy a 100 foot power cord. Minimum 12/3. I saw one in a flyer
this morning for $50 here and you can likely get it there for less.
That should be sufficient for your heating mats unless you are using a
lot of them.
Don't expect any code issues if you just plug it in at the house and at
the
Extension cord from the house to the shed would be vetoed immediately by
SWMBO.
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Andrew Strasfogel
wrote:
> Thanks - that helps. I wonder why there is no simple kit that goes from
> PV to 110 V without all the interconnecting parapernalia, battery,
> inverters, et
Thanks - that helps. I wonder why there is no simple kit that goes from PV
to 110 V without all the interconnecting parapernalia, battery, inverters,
etc.
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 3:46 PM, fmiser via Mercedes
wrote:
> > Andrew wrote:
> >
> > I am still puzzled at how to plug in my heat mats into
On 03/09/2015 12:11 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
I would like to electrify my shed in the back 40 in order to provide 1)
simple overhead lighting and 2) a 110V outlet for grow mats under my
seedlings next spring.
I might also want to recharge batteries for a B&D trimmer, although th
> Andrew wrote:
>
> I am still puzzled at how to plug in my heat mats into a
> solar setup.
A solar panel will generate direct current (DC). A power
cell - and therefore a battery - can only store DC. If you
need alternating current (AC), then a converter is needed.
It is called an "inverter".
True.
It’s against code to run phone with power, or any other signal wiring, I
believe. Not to mention you risk inducing a voltage into it, which can wreak
all kinds of havoc.
Dan
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 3:29 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Then it is easier to put a shovel through
Then it is easier to put a shovel through too! 1" PVC conduit is cheap
and no harder to bury than romex, plus you can run a phone line or
something else in it too if you want.
--R
On 9/3/15 3:08 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
Just use direct burial stuff. Then you don’t have to mess a
Just use direct burial stuff. Then you don’t have to mess around with conduit.
Dan
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 3:03 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:
>
> Dig the thing downhill. Lay some flex conduit and stuff a pair of romex
> inside.
>
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Merce
Dig the thing downhill. Lay some flex conduit and stuff a pair of romex inside.
On Sep 3, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> 60' uphill. :(
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> What happened to renting a D
So you start at the top?
Dan
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
>
> 60' uphill. :(
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> What happened to renting a DitchWitch and buying a spool of direct burial
> cable? H
60' uphill. :(
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> What happened to renting a DitchWitch and buying a spool of direct burial
> cable? How many feet is the run between the house and shed?
>
>
>
> > On Sep 3, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Andrew Strasfoge
What happened to renting a DitchWitch and buying a spool of direct burial
cable? How many feet is the run between the house and shed?
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Rich. The house and shed are too far apart to run a 110 V line
> (got a qu
Thanks, Rich. The house and shed are too far apart to run a 110 V line
(got a quote for $2000 from a licensed electrician, half of which was for
digging a deep trench).
I am still puzzled at how to plug in my heat mats into a solar setup. Send
me some links plesae.
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 1:57 P
I have been thinking about something similar for a shed I want to
build. Harbor Freight has some fairly cheap solar panels of not
particularly high wattage, that would be cheap enough to do a test set
up. Buy one, hook it to a battery/inverter (I think they might come
with a 12V battery char
I would like to electrify my shed in the back 40 in order to provide 1)
simple overhead lighting and 2) a 110V outlet for grow mats under my
seedlings next spring.
I might also want to recharge batteries for a B&D trimmer, although this is
a lesser priority.
There is a sunny spot where I could er
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