RE: SOT - Ecommerce
I'm new to ecommerce and have helped my customer set it up. We are using the authorizeNet processing. Is there someway to know all the fees associated with ecommerce business? We currently get invoiced by: Millenium Bank Services, AuthorizeNet and Concord Payment Systems. This is a bit confusing. Could someone that is knowledgeable in this area assist me? Why do you have to deal with so many companies to do online ecommerce? You need several components to process a transaction online. They can come from several companies or from just one. The first thing you need is a gateway. That's where Authorize.Net comes in. They interface with the banking system. They deposit the money in what's commonly referred to as an Internet merchant account. Internet merchant accounts are accounts that are used for card-not-present transactions. That includes any transaction you would place over the Internet or by calling, faxing or mailing the credit card number. Internet Merchant Accounts usually take a fee per transaction. This is on top of the fee that the credit card company is taking. Finally, you need a regular old bank account like a business checking account. Usually, the one you have with your local bank will be enough. This is where the money ends up. They, of course, charge their own set of fees. These vary quite a bit from bank to bank and depending on the type of account you have. Just did a quick search and found this page. It looks like it covers this in a bit more detail: http://www.tamingthebeast.net/articles2/back-end-ecommerce.htm Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:195447 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: SOT - Ecommerce
Bryan or anyone else have any recommendations of a good company to handle all this with minimal cost? I want to do some comparisons. We selected Millenium only because of referral and I really don't know if we are getting a deal (avg fees) or getting taken for a ride? Usually, you find the best fees by mixing and matching. Authorize.Net is about as inexpensive as you can get for a gateway solution. Their AIM does not require any software installation on the server, so it's a fairly portable solution. We've had pretty good luck with them. Chances are you'll find more variation in the Internet merchant account fees and your business checking account. Here's a few random links of other providers: http://www.worldpay.com/ http://www.2checkout.com/ http://www.plugnpay.com/ http://www.linkpoint.com/ http://www.verisign.com/products-services/payment-processing/online-payment/ index.html If you're not doing too many transactions, the cheapest solution may be PayPal: http://www.paypal.com/ Keep in mind that PayPal is a radically different solution. There's no gateway or merchant account involved. Consequently, you won't get a virtual terminal that will allow you to process credit card transactions yourself: all transactions will have to go through your Web site form. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:195454 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: SOT - Ecommerce
You don't always need all of these players. Right know, I have my credit card account with Northern Trust and they've hired an electronic provider (ADP/Chase) that we use to process transactions. We do not have any additional fees besides the rate we negotiated with our bank. The majority of our transactions are card not present all settled electronically. Some companies provide all three services (payment gateway, Internet merchant accounts and merchant account). I'm no expert, but I believe that, in the United States, you need an Internet merchant account that's separate from your merchant account (business checking account) for card-not-present transactions. If that's indeed the case, then you do need all three components, even they are provided by the same company. I did a quick search and found a little more info of Verisign's site: http://searchsupport.verisign.com/content/kb/vs8619.html From what I've seen, you get the best deals by picking and choosing. For instance, we use Authorize.Net for the payment gateway. As I said, we've had good luck with them, there's no software to install, and they provide a couple different integration methods. We use Heartland (I believe) for the Internet Merchant Account. I don't think we chose them for price but because their bills are broken down in a manner that our accountant can actually use to reconcile our books. For our business account, we go with a regional credit union. As it turns out, despite the fact that we bombard them with thousands of small money checks, they actually end up paying us to have an account with them as opposed to the reverse. Anyway, I've already told you more than I know, so I'll stop now. :) Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:195480 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: SOT - Ecommerce
I highly recommend that you find a bank and use the service that they provide. If you start with the 3rd party, you of course are going to have an additional level of fees. By level, you mean that it will be broken down more, not that they will necessarily cost less, correct? Otherwise, your bank should have a workable solution with the service company that they use. I've only worked with a couple of dozen companies in this respect, but it's been my experience that most banks do not offer payment gateways. Those that do generally have very convoluted solutions that are not very friendly in shared hosting environments. I much prefer the https based payment gateways offered by companies like Authorize.Net. They will bundle all of the fees into a single rate that you might be able to shop, depending on how long your merchant has been in business and the average size of their transactions. One of the difficulties in determining the best solution is definitely the convoluted pricing schemes including setup fees, monthly fees, transaction fees, transaction limits, monthly limits, monthly bases, etc. Not too long ago, I tried to create a spread sheet of various types of payment solutions. I came to the conclusion that it couldn't represent it in two dimensions. :) Seriously, though, I found that I had much better luck calling companies and talking to human beings than relying on their Web sites. And I'm a person who hates talking to sales people. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:195488 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Zip code radius database?
Most of the zip code tags I came across were made with a particular db in mind. I whipped up ZipMonger to work with anything, and then I optimized it to the point where it was returning responses in a couple of seconds where other tags where at 30 seconds +. Try moving the logic into the database. When you're done, it should return in milliseconds. It won't be as portable, but it will be much faster. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:195490 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: SOT - Ecommerce
There's a lot of incorrect information being tossed about here -- but that's understandable because it's a seemingly complicated subject that no one ever seems to explain well enough. That's why I created this page on our site: You replied to my message, so I assume you're referring to my posts? http://www.productivityenhancement.com/services/HowMerchantAccountsReallyW ork.cfm I came across this page in my research a couple months ago. It's very useful. Thank you. which still doesn't explain how some parties are comglomerated, what fees may be involved, etc. I'll try to expand on this in the coming weeks. I invite you to read the page I mentioned above, and understand that as long as you are using an Internet gateway that you will always be working through each of the parties I show in that diagram. It's just that some companies may provide more than one service, or may do so through a strategic relationship with another company (like a payment processing company affiliated with an acquiring bank), so you may not think you're dealing with an acquiring bank because our merchant account handles all that, but there is no such valid statement like that to be made. Isn't that what I just said, albeit with more qualifications? For example, I know of one company that provides everything you see in that diagram under one roof, but that may not necessarily mean they have the best fees or that their fees are any less complicated. Again, I think this is the argument I was making. In fact, many times the companies you deal with are just fronts for the same few companies on the back end. Like your company, correct? Which is not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes, the easiest solution is the best solution. It would be really helpful if you would post actual information rather than making specious accusations that allude to your proprietary insight. It would also be helpful if you qualified your comments in some way (e.g. are you stating that this is the case globally or just in the United States?). Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:195502 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: SOT - Ecommerce
Actually, they do cost less, since the bank negotiates with the processing firm for a significantly larger chunk of the business and also excepts all of the credit risk. This processing is part of being a bank, so they really can't mark it up in an uncompetitive fashion. But, as I mentioned in an earlier email, it is very important that merchants cultivate a relationship with a local bank. As I stated in an earlier message, our local credit union actually pays us for our account, despite the fact that we process thousands of checks every month. They pay us more per month than Authorize.Net charges us. Our IMA is very reasonable, but I doubt it's the cheapest. I find it difficult to believe that an all in one solution can compete with that. I'll admit that I'm very biased. As a developer, I've had a very difficult time with all-in-one solutions. The gateway software is usually atrocious. The fees are usually higher (from my experience). The customers that I've worked with who have chosen an all-in-one solution generally seem to do so because they sat down with their account manager at their local bank, a person they no doubt trust, and got talked into it because that's the only solution the bank has to offer. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:195504 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Internet Explorer 7 (no really!)
in size wise how big is that? I don't know. I zambonied that box. It was too much of a support headache. then take a base copy of xp and add all the patches, fixes, sp1,sp2 and so on what kinda size is that? Since when has hard drive size been an issue? For me, the bigger problem is having to stay on top of security updates and booting the server every two days. xp patches and service packs alone are probably bigger than the whole os install It's possible. I don't know off hand. But the XP install is still only a single CD. RedHat Enterprise Linux 3 was something like 6 or 7 CDs. and at least with your linux kernals its actually upgrading your linux system, i dont see where any patches or fixes are actually upgrading xp at all That's part of the point. I don't want security patches and bug fixes to introduce new features -- and new bugs necessitating new security patches and bug fixes. If I want new features, I'll buy a new OS or install third party software on top of my existing OS. Regardless, you should read up on Windows XP Service Pack 2. It did, in fact, introduce many new features. Most were added for the sake of security, however. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:195156 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Internet Explorer 7 (no really!)
Slashdot, perhaps? I think it might have been actually. Actually, if I remember correctly, I read something similar on Miguel de Icaza's blog. I think he's a very bright man but given a little too much towards hyperbole. But then, so am I -- give to hyperbole that is. Not very bright. :) Um... how is that the opposite? Thats exactly what I said. From what I understand (theory or not) the avalon apps act like Apple dash board widget but on the desktop - no browser. My impression of what you were arguing (which maybe wrong?) is that Microsoft is attempting to co-opt the Web with Avalon. I was suggesting that Avalon, as far as I can tell, is not intended for general Web use. I believe they are trying to bring the same advantages that Web applications have to traditional desktop applications. Aside from support - no - read blog yes. Heh, I've never tried to talk to MS support. Maybe that's why we have such different opinions. :) So you wrote an app that competed with Microsoft, and they told you what niche you would be allowed to work in with out them crushing you ok ... so? It really wasn't like that. I don't know how to convey it to you. If I could, I'd doubt you'd be convinced. You do realize though, that competing companies sit down and talk all the time, right? The world really isn't as black and white as you're trying to make it out. And already have more features and a safer experience than IE I agree. They are newer browsers which spent years in development. Microsoft switched focus and lost the lead. They also implemented a lot of features in unsafe ways in the haste to compete with Netscape. But that's just my opinion. Yes. For sure, Netscape 4 was horrid. IE was the bomb at that point. I talked many people off of netscape 4 onto IE because it was better by far. IE sucks now. I really think this is a gross exaggeration. Thinking back to how trying it was to develop cross-browser and cross-platform Web sites several years ago, I think that we've come a long way. In my opinion, it's largely do to Microsoft's early adoption of various standards including CSS-1, XML, XSL, etc. It's been a rocky road and they adopted a few technologies a little too soon. Nevertheless, it's pretty trivial to design sites that work not just in the most popular two browsers, but dozens of browsers with a handful of different rendering engines. Absolutely not. I am saying I have seen, many times, people in the Microsoft Camp say feature A is pointless no one will use it. Then MS comes out with Feature A (claims they made it up most times), and then the same people say Feature A is great! What good are such generalizations? Well it has for a lot of people. I don't doubt that -- especially power users. I think its usefulness for the every day user is over estimated, however. Very few people open links in new Windows or otherwise proactively manage their Windows. Most people that I've seen simply open up a maximized Window and go. When they are done surfing, they close any Windows that got opened up along the way. Consequently, I don't expected tabbed browsing to have much of an effect on normal users -- whoever they are. How so? How can tabbed browsing be poor? I believe the Firefox implementation is poor. There are many extensions out there which attempt to improve it. So, I don't think I'm alone in this. I think that some of the extensions make Firefox's tabbed browsing much better. Out of the box, I'd say I prefer Maxthon's implementation. Ah, I see, so the MS tabbed browsing will be revolutionary and redefine how you work eh? Whatever - fodder. I said no such thing. IE has had *no* innovation. That is the point. Web designers are stoked because someone is doing something to further the web technology and experiences. Somewhere Microsoft has failed miserably after having been knighted champion of browser war. If innovation is defined as tabbed browsing, then I'd say that there's very little innovation at all right now. Regardless, I'm glad that there are browsers out there that may be pushing Microsoft to improve upon Internet Explorer. Frankly, I think that security -- perceived or otherwise -- is the real impetus. But I'll take what I can get where I get it. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:195159 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http
RE: Internet Explorer 7 (no really!)
I think Firefox is a threat. The product is gaining market and mindshare over IE pretty consistently, and if they want to stop it they have to act now not before it gets to 30 or 50%. MSs plan (I think I read this somewhere but cant remember) Slashdot, perhaps? is to get everyone off the browser and write apps with their avalon thing anyway I've seen no evidence of this -- outside of the conspiracy theorist blogs. As far as I can tell, they are trying to do the reverse: make traditional desktop applications deployable and updatable via the Web. (kind of like Flex for the desktop, but probably more complicated with engineered in vulnerabilities). I'd even say MM is a threat to MS at this point (unless they are playing footsie under the table) The more people that get hooked with complex apps in the browser the more they'll have to convert later. But MS says the only reason I've heard they are upgrading is because their customers asked for it (like they listen to them ;-D) Have you ever personally spoken with a Microsoft employee or even read a few of their blogs? As a Microsoft customer, we were asked to demonstrate an application that we had written. We met with project leaders from several teams. In many ways, the app we had written competed with what they were doing. So, with some of the teams, we discussed differing approaches to solving the same problem. With other teams, we discussed how they could market the product we'd written to their customers. It was an educational experience, much more useful than making the same old us vs. them argument. I'd bet IE7 is not going to be anything grand - it's going to be catch up like it almost always is. How so? Firefox only reached version 1 a few months ago. Safari has only been out for a year or so, I believe. Between the release of Internet Explorer 4 and Safari, I can think of only two browsers that competed on a technical level: Opera and Mozilla. Opera failed to render many sites correctly (often because of bad browser detection, but that's the way it is). Although the Gecko engine is pretty nice, the Mozilla suite left a lot to be desired. Anyway, my point is, it seems like there were a few years there that Internet Explorer was the uncontested leader. And has it really slipped that far? They'll just add the basic features that are in firefox so that the IE crowd who now say they don't need tabbed browsing can say they love IE for its tabbed browsing Ah, so now we're insulting Internet Explorer users as well as Microsoft. I guess I can respond since I'm one of those people who doesn't need tabbed browsing. I use Firefox religiously at home. I'd say that tabbed browsing hasn't revolutionized my surfing experience. I rarely miss it at work where I generally use Internet Explorer. That said, I think the implementation of tabbed browsing in Firefox and Mozilla is very poor. There are some popular extensions that greatly enhance the experience. So, I'm not willing to judge based solely on my experiences with Firefox. Nevertheless, if Microsoft makes a better *default* tabbed browsing experience, well, good for them. It seems to me that browser innovation may really be dead when Web designers start trumpeting features like tabbed browsing. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:195071 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Internet Explorer 7 (no really!)
That's what I do. I also encourage others to do that. However, I can't just tell my computer-illiterate father-in-law to download Firefox, and he shouldn't have to know how to install software to use his computer to browse the web. Perhaps the problem is that less computer literate people should be surfing off of set top boxes instead of desktop or workstation machines. I don't mean that as insult and I don't mean to be demeaning (I'm well aware that type of statement is) but I think that the reality is that security and easy of use are often on opposite sides of the same spectrum. If a person can't be expected to learn how to install software, then he or she should have an appliance in front of them that doesn't allow them to install software. Ultimately, I think this is the fundamental failure of Windows: Microsoft's trying to make one operating system for everyone. The differences between Home, Professional, and Media Center are superficial at best. I think what's needed is a surfing experience that's more akin to putting a game in an Xbox. I thought some of the Linux distributions were going to provide that, but I haven't seen it yet. The IE security model is seriously broken, largely due to how well it's integrated with the OS and due to the fact that practically everyone runs IE using administrative privileges. Jochem is absolutely right here (as usual). Out of curiosity, do you feel the same way about Windows XP Service Pack 2? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:195079 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Internet Explorer 7 (no really!)
if ms keeps on their path they should send every ms user a free hard drive just to store all their patches fixes on, cause its ridiculas how much space they take up. If you think that's bad, you should try running RedHat Enterprise Linux. Every time I turn around I've got 10 things waiting to install. I installed at least 10 kernels alone in a one year period. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:195094 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Internet Explorer 7 (no really!)
To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, you go to the web with the computer you have, not the computer you want or wish to have. I wasn't arguing for a different OS. The XBox runs a kernel very similar to the one found in Windows XP. It is possible to configure Windows securely, so that it can be a safe network client. I'm pretty comfortable that my laptop is adequately secure, for example. It's possible for Windows network administrators to configure machines so that they can be safely used as network clients. However, there's no reason why they couldn't be more secure by default. I agree. In fact, I think the underlying security model in Windows (everything is an object with ACLs even at the kernel level) is very solid. However, the boxes you've described don't allow people to install software. At least, most corporate networks that I've seen do not allow people to install software. Some do not even permit users to surf to unapproved Web sites. Yes. I do feel that it's a significant improvement, but there are still fundamental flaws in the underlying OS default settings. For example, there's no reason to run a browser with a user account that has administrative rights. But that's what most people do, because that's the default. There is if you're installing software (Macromedia Flash, for instance) or operating system updates via a Web browser. I'm not convinced that's a poor distribution model. I tend to think it was poorly implemented and I have hopes that it will be fixed. I think Windows XP Service Pack 2 goes a long way towards that goal. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:195115 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Holy Security
You discover a bug in open-source software. You notify the develpers. They say cool, we'll fix that. The new version has this fix and is released a few days/weeks after the initial notification. Or they tell you it's not actually a bug. It's the way it should work because of some obscure assumption in the underlying implementation. Now, go fork off. :) We had an experience like this with RedHat tech support regarding SATA RAID on RHEL 3. Needless to say, we're no longer running it (Linux) anywhere as a Web server. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:194726 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: CFQUERYPARAM in CFC?
Personally, I see no reason for a CFQUERYPARAM being used inside a CFC. It adds extra overhead and the protection that it provides should be provided instead by the CFARGUMENT tag. Does anyone see a reason for it in such a case? Data binding? Besides the fact that security should be performed in layers, cfargument types do not correspond to SQL types. Also, I would generally *expect* parameterized queries to provide better performance than queries with inlined values. Parameterized queries can even provide better performance than stored procedures in some situations. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:194813 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Flex
Anyone with a $500 computer, a $19/mo DSL connection (and little more) can host a credible web site... and provide as much service to their clientele as, say, Victoria's Secret, does to theirs. I think you'll find most DSL / cable connection agreements prohibit you from operating a fixed service from your house like that. In our area, the two most popular broadband options are Verizon DSL and Comcast Cable. Both offer business plans and fixed IP addresses. Web, FTP and mail traffic are permitted. However, those services cost substantially more than $19 a month. More importantly, they do not provide reverse DNS resolution, guaranteed bandwidth, basic redundancy or anything else that even a small Web site would require. In addition, many hosts block mail outright if it comes from a pool of IP addresses belonging to a DSL or cable provider. Finally, we can't convince most of our small business customers to backup. They don't seem to be able create user accounts or share files in a workgroup. They can't configure a LinkSys router on a Verizon PPoE DSL line. And, yes, this even includes some people who call themselves Web developers. I simply don't see these customers hosting their own Web sites and mail servers (successfully) any time in the near future. This is to say nothing of stats servers, SSL servers, and various other services involved in hosting a single Web site. And with the rampant viruses and worms out their, I'm pretty sure I don't want to see most people hosting their own sites. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:194519 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Why would Firefox cause CF to error??
The problem is not J2EE session management itself but a mismatch between the CF session timeout and the underlying J2EE session timeout. I recommend using J2EE session management over the traditional CFID/CFTOKEN stuff (there's a lot of benefits - read the docs) but the host needs to have the system setup properly. So, ColdFusion does not keep the J2EE session and ColdFusion session timeouts in sync? Can I assume then that, if J2EE session management is enabled and the session timeout is changed programmatically, you could run into these types of problems as well? If this is the case, then it would seem that a server hosting multiple sites for third part developers (or any application that programmatically sets the session timeout) should not use J2EE session management. I've never seen this mentioned in the docs. In fact, I went looking for reasons not to enable J2EE session management. When I didn't find any, I wondered why Macromedia gave us the option and assumed that it had to do with backwards compatibility. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:194520 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Reinstall CFMX 6.1 Administrator only?
Is it really missing files or is it just suffering from the 6.1 Updater bug that fails to recognize the CFIDE location? If you're seeing this bug, you'll get an error about a missing tag lib having to do with internationalization, if I remember correctly. It happened to me with a J2EE install. I upgraded to Windows XP recently and installed ColdFusion 6.1. The CFIDE ran. I know because you have to log in to finish the install. I applied the updater (not 5 minutes after the install) and the administrator died with the aforementioned error. Anyway, this particular error has been discussed in CF-Talk, and the MM forums (searchable via groups.google.com). Basically, the updater puts half its files in the wrong location (either under C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\ or C:\JRun4\servers\cfusion\cfusion-ear\cfusion-war). Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 9:43 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Reinstall CFMX 6.1 Administrator only? I've inherited a server that seems to be missing some files necessary for the CFADMIN to work correctly. I'm trying to figure out if it's safe just to drop files into that directory from another server or if there's a supported way to reinstall the administrator from the CD without reinstalling the CFMX as a whole and having to deal with possible problems with the app. Any help would be appreciated. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:194580 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Sourceless deployment in BlueDragon (was: CFMX 7 is released)
So as not to inundate the user with the multitude of options provided in the Administrator, for one, and to make sure that a user doesn't change a particular setting or settings that your application relies on, for another. Further, I wouldn't want to dump settings and stuff in a production environment. While developers tend to cheat all the time, a production environment should be a pristine version of your application, devoid of all debugging code and settings. I think our perspectives are different. Some of the software I develop is deployed in places I will never visit. At those locations, they often have development, QA and production systems. So, when I deploy an app, it's not straight to production. Deployment for me means that it's going to a customer's site. There's usually 6 months or so between the time the customer sets it up in development and the time the app goes into production. During that time, we're determining the best settings for the particular environment. Once we've set up the development environment, the customer (or on site consultants) duplicates it as QA environment and then as a production environment. It's not a question of smart vs. dumb or lazy. It's a question of what one is used to and whether or not they are willing to make the effort to learn a different process to deploy a J2EE application. If I have to log in to the JRun Admin Console to administer all my other J2EE apps but then use the CFMX Admin just to administer my CF apps, that's a bother to the sys admin, who, in large shops where standards are prevalent, don't have time for disparate systems. One could argue both sides quite convincingly, I'd wager, but at the end of the day, as I mentioned earlier, this particular feature really caters to pure J2EE admins as opposed to developers like you and me who are used to CF's deployment experience. I agree, but I think we're also talking a difference in scale. The companies buying the software in question fly a team of people out to take classes to learn how to use the software. If these people couldn't learn how to use the ColdFusion Administrator, then they sure as heck can't learn how to use the rest of our app. BTW, the apps that I'm refereeing to are not written in CF. They are written in ASP and Java. But, they're the best basis I have for comparison. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:193838 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Sourceless deployment in BlueDragon (was: CFMX 7 is released)
Because they want a J2EE app not a ColdFusion app. Which is just a matter of semantics, correct? Perhaps, but it's important to some people. I wholeheartedly agree and understand. I'm just trying to make sure I'm not missing something. :) You're missing the point. The scenario is that you create an application that is going to be packaged and distributed as a J2EE application. You do not want or need to expose the entire CF Admin as part of that application - you've already set up all the admin settings when you packaged the app for deployment. The app might need some configuration after deployment - perhaps a data source setup, perhaps your app is only coded to support MySQL and SQL Server - so you build a simple admin that allows the purchaser of your packaged app to configure the app to talk to their existing MySQL or SQL Server database. I'm not so sure that I'm missing the point so much as confirming that this feature is not terribly useful for what we do (right now). That's not a bad thing. But, the reason I'm asking these questions is that I'm trying to figure out how ColdFusion EAR/WAR file deployment applies to what we do. It doesn't seem like it offers us much over traditional deployment. That's fine. If it offers other (J2EE) shops something and helps sell ColdFusion licenses, that's good too. :) disable the ColdFusion administrator? You'd lose access to the log file viewer, the ability to dump settings, etc. And these have what relevance to a packaged, deployed J2EE application? As a Macromedia employee working on internal projects, I can see why you'd ask that question. In my previous message to Dave, I described a scenario that's more common for us, one that involves dozens of consultants on site deploying applications that I've written. Any tool that could help programmers troubleshoot and solve problems that consultants are running into in the field is essential. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:193840 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Sourceless deployment in BlueDragon (was: CFMX 7 is released)
I'm at a loss as why you wouldn't want to disable the CFAdmin. You really shouldn't need it in production at all, if all you want it for is a log viewer, I suggest notepad. Having a slow running log viewer doesnt justify the security issues it presents. When you're sending a team of consultants to deploy an application at a customer's branch office in Taiwan for a period of no less than 6 months as part of a global SAP data migration, you want to have every tool available to the consultants as they try to troubleshoot issues. This includes the ability to dump server settings, a web accessible log viewer (often, the servers are located off site or access to the file system is otherwise restricted), and anything else that might help us diagnose and troubleshoot problems. As I said before, we don't sell the software; we're not the one with teams of consultants; and we don't fly the customer's employees half way around the globe for training: we develop the software for a company that does. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:193843 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Firewall question
They can be equally secure, but it has been my experience that, over time, server based firewalls can get partially disabled. Configuration often changes when troubleshooting issues and doesn't get changed back. Obviously, that can be avoided, but it's something to watch out for. As Jochem noted, the most secure option is using both. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Andy Ousterhout [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 11:42 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Firewall question Which is more secure: Running your firewall on the NT 2003 Server or running it on a router? Andy ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:193892 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Firewall question
Second that. Even the content filtering of URLScan is evil. The only thing I use on the webservers themselves is IPSec policies. Though I think IPSec policies are fine, I find that URLScan is an invaluable utility on Windows Server 2000 boxes. At this point, I wouldn't run a Windows Server 2000 web server without it installed. That said, URLScan can be a pain to troubleshoot. I've gotten into the habit of checking the URLScan log files whenever I encounter bizarre behavior or non-descript errors. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:193971 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Sourceless deployment in BlueDragon (was: CFMX 7 is released)
I'm still a little fuzzy on this. If we develop an application on ColdFusion Enterprise and package it, do we include the license from the server we developed the application on, or must we purchase a new, separate license of ColdFusion Enterprise just for that EAR or WAR file? If that latter, is that license then tied to the file or to a particular copy of the file installed on a J2EE server? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 8:28 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Sourceless deployment in BlueDragon (was: CFMX 7 is released) Not exactly, you can indeed develop on the no-cost developer edition and build a deployment package. But you'll need a serial number on that deployed version (or it'll time out after 30 days). Packaging changed, licensing has not. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Ryan Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:47 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Sourceless deployment in BlueDragon (was: CFMX 7 is released) You can create a WAR or EAR file that contains your CF application and everything necessary to run it and then just deploy the WAR/EAR to a clean install of JRun, WebLogic, WebSphere, Tomcat etc that has never seen ColdFusion. Do I understand correctly that one can use the free developer version of CFMX 7, build Coldfusion apps, and then deploy them to a server which has Tomcat running and they will work? All without shelling out for CFMX software for the server? ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:193601 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Sourceless deployment in BlueDragon (was: CFMX 7 is released)
It's a separate license that you'll want to purchase, your license is limited to 1 machine 2 CPUs (which in the example below is the machine you packaged it from). Then I guess I don't understand what the purpose of the EAR/WAR file is? I'm sure I'm missing something, but why would I deploy as an EAR/WAR file when I have a full copy of ColdFusion Enterprise sitting on the shelf? Why wouldn't I install that and then install the application (either with or without source). Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:193620 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Sourceless deployment in BlueDragon (was: CFMX 7 is released)
Regarding serial numbers, it's your choice as to whether or not you include it when you compile the application. If you're selling a product to another company/customer, you would not include the serial number, as they would need their own serial number for their own servers. However, if you're simply moving the EAR/WAR file from one server in your setup to another, and you already have the serial number needed on the target server (the server you will be deploying the EAR/WAR file on), then you can plug it in up front so that you don't have to include the CF Administrator (or use the Admin API CFCs to programmatically set it). This all makes sense, except, why would the customer, having purchased a full copy of ColdFusion Enterpirse, want a crippled installation of ColdFusion Enterprise (i.e. sans the ColdFusion Administrator)? As for the license, it only applies to the server to which the EAR/WAR file is being deployed to -- it has nothing to do with your files. So if the server you're moving to is a 2-CPU server, you'll need to purchase a CFMX Enterprise license for a 2-CPU server to be in license compliance. Further, since the license is for the physical server (and the CPU licensing is for each *physical* CPU, not virtual CPUs, by the way), you can deploy any number of instances/applications on that server; you are not restricted in any way on that front. I'm still having trouble seeing a use for EAR/WAR file deployment. Can you package your application up as an EAR/WAR file without ColdFusion (i.e for deployment on a running instance of ColdFusion)? Or, is ColdFusion always included in EAR/WAR file? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:193624 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Sourceless deployment in BlueDragon (was: CFMX 7 is released)
Yes, this helps a lot. Thanks for the detailed response. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that this feature will be of much use to us. When we install apps in corporate environments, we're usually provided with servers and perform the installations ourselves. Besides those apps, most of the stuff we write has to run in shared hosting environments (though they might not necessarily be deployed to shared hosting environments). We simply don't see a lot in between. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Dave Carabetta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 11:23 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Sourceless deployment in BlueDragon (was: CFMX 7 is released) On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 10:54:25 -0500, Ben Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regarding serial numbers, it's your choice as to whether or not you include it when you compile the application. If you're selling a product to another company/customer, you would not include the serial number, as they would need their own serial number for their own servers. However, if you're simply moving the EAR/WAR file from one server in your setup to another, and you already have the serial number needed on the target server (the server you will be deploying the EAR/WAR file on), then you can plug it in up front so that you don't have to include the CF Administrator (or use the Admin API CFCs to programmatically set it). This all makes sense, except, why would the customer, having purchased a full copy of ColdFusion Enterpirse, want a crippled installation of ColdFusion Enterprise (i.e. sans the ColdFusion Administrator)? OK, here's a use case. One of the reasons that ColdFusion hasn't been adopted at some shops is that they run a pure J2EE environment. ColdFusion MX's past deployment experience has not followed this pattern, even though it is a valid J2EE application. You used to have to buy the CF server, install it separately into a J2EE instance, and then deploy your CFML code separately on top of that. That was an awkward experience for J2EE sys admins who wanted to have one neat EAR/WAR file that they could drop in and deploy which contained all of CFMX plus the CFML application. Now, to you and me as CF-ers, it's probably not that big of a deal because it's what we're used to, but for these pure J2EE shops, it was a hassle they didn't want to deal with so they stuck with technologies such as JSP. For a real-world example of this, I believe Mario Ciliotta who just posted to the list yesterday that his sys admins at Credit Suisse First Boston only wanted a EAR/WAR file to deploy if they were going to use CFMX 7. Keeping that use case in mind, CFMX 7 has the EAR/WAR packaging feature to satisfy this awkwardness for pure J2EE shops. If you think about it, in these big shops, they are theoretically not going to need to access the CFMX Administrator after the initial deployment, and any tweaking that does need to be done can now be done programmatically via the Admin API included (see LiveDocs for more on this). As for the license, it only applies to the server to which the EAR/WAR file is being deployed to -- it has nothing to do with your files. So if the server you're moving to is a 2-CPU server, you'll need to purchase a CFMX Enterprise license for a 2-CPU server to be in license compliance. Further, since the license is for the physical server (and the CPU licensing is for each *physical* CPU, not virtual CPUs, by the way), you can deploy any number of instances/applications on that server; you are not restricted in any way on that front. I'm still having trouble seeing a use for EAR/WAR file deployment. Can you package your application up as an EAR/WAR file without ColdFusion (i.e for deployment on a running instance of ColdFusion)? Or, is ColdFusion always included in EAR/WAR file? No, and this is really more because of the nature of how EAR/WAR files are used in the J2EE world. They are intended to be full standalone applications that you can literally just drop in and deploy without dependencies. If you already have CF installed into the instance you're deploying to, the combination of WinZip and sourceless deployment via the included cfcompile utility achieves the same goal. Hope this helps? Regards, Dave. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:193646 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http
RE: Sourceless deployment in BlueDragon (was: CFMX 7 is released)
I see your situation. This isn't really a feature for the masses like Flash Forms so much as it's a huge convenience (and potentially big source of new revenue for Macromedia) for pure J2EE shops who have been hesitant in the past. At the very least, hopefully you have a better understanding of what the feature is and how it works and can make a more informed decision down the road for new projects. Yep, it makes a lot of sense, particularly from Macromedia's perspective. From our perspective, we rarely encounter IT departments who are capable of installing and administering J2EE servers. We have one application that we deploy as an EAR file. However, we don't just give the client the EAR file and an installation guide. We give them server specs. Then, someone shows up at their place, installs the J2EE server (SAP J2EE), and installs the app. That the product runs on J2EE or takes the form of an EAR file is incidental. They buy it because it's NetWeaver certified and integrates with SAP Portal. At least, that's the way I understand it. I don't sell, market or install the product. In fact, our company itself doesn't do that. We just built it. :) Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:193670 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Can you redistro developer version was: Re: Sourceless deployment...
If you start a new thread, please start a new thread and don't respond to an old one. When you respond to an old one your email client will send a References header which tells that it is not a new thread. And we all know that's the end of the world. 1) Can I redistro the CFMX 7 J2ee Developer Version ( the localhost plus 2 IPs version ) as part of a package? 2) Can I redistro the CFMX 7 J2ee Trial Version ( the 30-day version that reverts to 1 ) as part of a package? Both are answered in the license agreement. (You did read it, right?) Where would one find this agreement? Are you referring to the EULA? You're not suggesting that we sign up for a Macromedia account, download and install the software, and sift through all the legal mumbo jumbo just find out the answer to a few questions that a lot of us on this list would like to know? Seriously, if you don't have anything to add to a conversation, don't post. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:193695 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Sourceless deployment in BlueDragon (was: CFMX 7 is released)
Because they want a J2EE app not a ColdFusion app. Which is just a matter of semantics, correct? With the new Admin API you can build a custom console into your app for deployment instead of the full CF Admin - because you will only need the subset of admin features necessary for your app. I'm at a loss for why I'd want to duplicate the functionality of the ColdFusion administrator. Let me rephrase that. I think the admin API is useful. I can definitely see uses for that. However, why would I want to disable the ColdFusion administrator? You'd lose access to the log file viewer, the ability to dump settings, etc. I'm sure you could duplicate all this with the admin API, but what would be the purpose? I demo'd this at Fusebox 2004 and I showed a Flash form-based wizard that could set up a data source for the freshly installed application. No source, no CF Admin. Simple to install for a J2EE shop, simple to configure. I think we have different opinions of J2EE shops. :) I can't imagine a J2EE shop that can't figure out how to set up a data source using the ColdFusion Administrator. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:193729 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Quick Poll - what kind of files do you use every day?
Others mentioned SQL and ASP (which should include .asa). Theoretically, this could include ASP.Net, but ASP.Net already has a couple of very nice IDEs. Though less common, I still have several sites out there that use server side includes (.shtm and .shtml). Most of these are moving to Dreamweaver/Contribute templates (.dwt). In addition to writing bat (.bat and .cmd) scripts, I write a number of Windows Scripting Host files (.js and .vbs) for server maintenance and such. I also write sieve scripts for mail server spam filtering, but I've never seen a standard extension for those. I commonly edit ini (.ini) files from within an IDE as most applications store their config in an initialization file, a java properties file, or an XML file. Besides .xml, there are a number of common extensions for XML files (.svg, .xsd, .config, .rss, .rdf, .opml, .cml). I have to admit, I've very intrigued by the question. :) Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Rob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Quick Poll - what kind of files do you use every day? I am trying to figure out what kind of file support needs to be in an IDE I am working on for cf development - can anyone add to this list? cfml (cfm,cfc), xml, dtd, xsd, xsl (xslt), css, js, html (xhtml, htm), bat, sh, plist, php c++, and java wont be included directly, but are their any big ones I am missing or that you use? Thanks, Rob -- ~Blog~ http://www.robrohan.com ~The cfml plug-in for eclipse~ http://cfeclipse.tigris.org ~open source xslt IDE~ http://treebeard.sourceforge.net ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:192246 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Blackstone and XHTML
For a ColdFusion programmer, XSL should be an easy leap. The biggest problem I ran into was in writing a ColdFusion code generator. Because ColdFusion markup is not XML compliant, you have to treat the ColdFusion as raw text. This leads to a lot of character escaping. That, along with white space management, can make XSL templates unwieldy. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:51 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Blackstone and XHTML I just looked at a few XSL files, do not look too bad but could see how they could quickly get rather complicated. On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:45:14 -0500, Adam Haskell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think XSL is kinda like ColdFusion its easy to pick up (not quite as easy as CF) and get started but to get the true power from it it will take some practice/learning. Adam H On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 09:30:57 -0600, Aaron Rouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How hard is the XSL to develop though? I got the impression it is rather tedious to make one from scratch but never looked hard into it. For whatever reason this feature has not really appealed to me, although I could see benifits to it for here at work. On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:27:37 -0500, Joe Rinehart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See, that's *way* more control than I want to leave to the form tag... It also doesn't account for a great number of other possibilities -- i.e. text description of a field's content above, below or to the right of the input element. Sure a lot of forms are formatted this way (label on the left, input on the right), but by no means all of them. From what MM has disclosed, the control isn't actually in the form tag. The control is an an XSL file that you apply as a 'skin' - you're supposed to be free to use a number of built-in skins or create your own. How would you make the form align all of the labels to the left? (I don't like having them right-aligned.) Would it require an align attribute in each input element (which is the sort of thing I do with a singular css element in a col tag)? The XML CFForm seperates all look/feel/layout from the Cfform block itself - the XSL would determine right/left etc. -joe -- For Tabs, Trees, and more, use the jComponents: http://clearsoftware.net/client/jComponents.cfm ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:192097 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: CMS plain text data to Contribute 3
This was in Contribute 1 days. They had lots of problems with Contribute 1 and dynamic pages. So, they decided to give Contribute the simplest page they could. Parsing the page was relatively easy. Contribute templates consist of regular HTML marked up with proprietary HTML comments. It's not a full blown language or anything. Anyway, it was an interesting -- if imperfect -- solution. The customer got a very flexible WYSIWYG editor, and the developers didn't have to worry about Contribute trashing live Web pages. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:Neil.Robertson- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 9:52 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CMS plain text data to Contribute 3 Yeah...sounds possibleand pretty neat. -Original Message- From: Deanna Schneider [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 27 January 2005 14:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CMS plain text data to Contribute 3 Holey Moley - really? I want to talk to these people. I know of a site that does the opposite. Because of various sundry Contribute bugs and issues, the developers decided to build vanilla pages that the end users could edit without disturbing the live site. They use ColdFusion to parse the Contribute generated pages, extracting the content from the editable regions and inserting it into the database. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:191933 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: CMS plain text data to Contribute 3
That has been my experience. Prior to the latest version, though, I had quite a few problems with Dreamweaver templates. Most of those are gone in DWMX 2004. Even with Contribute 2 and Dreamweaver 2004 I've had a lot of problems with more advanced template functions. I gave up on repeatable regions altogether. Both Dreamweaver and Contribute would randomly stop responding to clicks on the plus or minus buttons. In at least one instance, they would not re-render the document when a table row had been added. This would cause the row to get clipped. I've also had tons of problems with temporary files and lock files. Contribute seems to have problems cleaning up after itself. I've had to clean up such files for both our customers and those of other third party developers who host with us. These issues occur on various servers, including Windows 2000 and 2003. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:191934 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Export to Excel
I generally just generate an HTML page and place the data in a HTML table. Give it a .xsl extention and hand it back with a content disposition header: cfheader name=Content-Type value=application/x-msexcel; charset=UTF-8 cfheader name=Content-Disposition value=myExcelFile.xls That works in Excel 98 and up, I believe. There's also a custom tag in the OpenXCF project. The custom tag is called cfx_excelquery. I haven't used it, but I believe quite a few people have: http://openxcf.sourceforge.net/ Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Asim Manzur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:29 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Export to Excel Any recomanded tag to export the html result to excel sheet? preferably free tag. thanks PS: Second attempt. I post this message yesterday from the website, didn't showed up, tried again from website didn't comes up either. now sending through email. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:191822 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: CMS plain text data to Contribute 3
Contribute can edit plain ol' HTML files. There doesn't need to be any special code in them for that. Typically, people use Dreamweaver templates to control the look and feel of Contribute sites, but Dreamweaver templates just use HTML comments to tell Dreamweaver and Contribute which areas are editable and so on. I was probably doing something wrong, but I had a heck of a time setting up templates for Contribute in Dreamweaver. As soon as I made a file a template or added the comment code for a non-editable region, I could no longer edit the document at all. I ended up making the Contribute templates in HomeSite, which blissfully ignored all the template comments. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:191889 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: CMS plain text data to Contribute 3
A coworker told me beyond a shadow of a doubt that I could not export plain text html from a database to a file that contribute 3 could understand. I wouldn't see why that would be a problem. It seems like an odd way to go about doing it, but, if the document is properly formed HTML, Contribute should be able to edit it. I know of a site that does the opposite. Because of various sundry Contribute bugs and issues, the developers decided to build vanilla pages that the end users could edit without disturbing the live site. They use ColdFusion to parse the Contribute generated pages, extracting the content from the editable regions and inserting it into the database. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:191891 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: CMS plain text data to Contribute 3
Yeah, even at the time I assumed I was doing something wrong. Once I decided to use HomeSite, I quit looking for the proper way to do it in Dreamweaver. I should note that I was making editable and repeating regions in code view as opposed to selecting the content and then choosing the appropriate toolbar command. I don't know if that makes a difference. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CMS plain text data to Contribute 3 I was probably doing something wrong, but I had a heck of a time setting up templates for Contribute in Dreamweaver. As soon as I made a file a template or added the comment code for a non-editable region, I could no longer edit the document at all. I ended up making the Contribute templates in HomeSite, which blissfully ignored all the template comments. That's very odd. I haven't had any trouble using Dreamweaver to create or edit templates for Contribute sites. Perhaps you were creating files from the templates - you can't edit anything outside the editable regions in that case. (Of course, that's the point of using templates, I guess!) Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:191898 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: CFCs and virtual directories.
Duplicating the mapping should work. ColdFusion does not honor IIS virtual directories. You may be more used to ASP, in which virtual directory and mapping are synonymous. To further complicate things, you may have to duplicate the mapping in the JRun config files as well. I've found that, sometimes, even ColdFusion mappings are ignored. This seems to be the case when invoking a CFC as a Web service (which in turn uses mappings). I believe this is only true in what Macromedia terms a multi-homed server configuration. If you're hosting a single site on the server, then you probably won't see this as both JRun and ColdFusion are configured with a / mapping by default. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: DURETTE, STEVEN J (AIT) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 3:39 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CFCs and virtual directories. Doug, That's been the issue all along. If I put the cfc into a directory and make a virtual directory that points to it, the cfc doesn't work and browsing to the cfc doesn't work. If I do a cold fusion mapping to the cfc directory then the cfc works, but I can't let the programmers browse to the cfc to get the hint information. It just returns a file not found error. That is why I was considering doing both to see what happens. I just haven't had time to do it yet. If you can think of another way for the cfc to work and browsing to the cfc to work, without copying it into each website, please let me know. Steve -Original Message- From: Douglas Knudsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CFCs and virtual directories. virtual directories respond to HTTP calls, in other words calls to IIS. Mappings are used by CF only. If you want a CF mapping to be available via HTTP, you have to create a virtual dir. Doug On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:57:14 -0500, DURETTE, STEVEN J (AIT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, I did some testing and found out that while the cfc does work, you can't get information from it like you would if you by doing something like http://localserver/mycfcdir/mycfc.cfc I'm thinking about seeing what happens when you have both a virtual directory in iis and a mapping in ColdFusion. Which would win out. Would it still work. Later, Steve -Original Message- From: John Beynon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 6:55 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CFCs and virtual directories. yes that will work...of course, if you had a folder named siteModel off the webroot it would work too, provided your '/' cfmapping goes to the web root jb. OK. So let's say i have a mapping in cf administrator called /siteModel. I should be be able to invoke a cfc by either cfinvoke component=siteModel.myCFC method=... or createObject(component,siteModel.myCFC) ? Dwayne -- Original Message -- From: Jared Rypka-Hauer - CMG, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:54:55 -0600 CFCs can be accessed in a few ways... Via the standard CF custom tag directory, a custom-custom tag directory, or in the immediate folder of the calling template: createObject(component,myCFC) Or in a folder below any of the above: createObject(component,folder.from.current.location.myCFC) There's a very specific search order that governs where CFCs should be located and how CF finds them if you only specify a CFC name. Check the livedocs here: http://livedocs.macromedia.com/coldfusion/6.1/htmldocs/buildi12.htm Laterz, J On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:18:19 -0500, Dwayne Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought tha this mapping issue was the problem with cfc's. Mapping works when your using cfinclude. I haven't wrapped most of my cffunction libraries with cfcomponent because of this issue of how to find them. Plus my cfc's don't contain instance data, I'm not using flash yet, and I'm not using webservices. So for me I works well to use cfinclude to include the set of cffunction before I make the call or include them in the application.cfm page. Dwayne. -- Continuum Media Group LLC Burnsville, MN 55337 http://www.web-relevant.com http://cfobjective.blogspot.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:191730 Archives: http
RE: John Dowdell Wants to Know What's Wrong with Macromedia
Calvin not quite. CFEclipse, I can see, is a terrific development, but as I found to my cost, if installation doesnt go right, it's very very difficult to fix.Support is dependent on the ample goodwill of the people developing it, but still there is no obligation on anyone to make sure it all works. You had problems installing Eclipse itself, the CFEclipse plug-in, or other Eclipse plug-ins? This is no criticism of the folks who are developing the CFEclipse product, but I found it difficult to download (It took more than an hour to start downloading by the time i negotiated the maze of sourceforge) and then installation didn't go perfectly - I wasn't sure which of the 45 files i was supposed to be downloading, and even then it wasnt a fullly bundled package. So. having a problematic download and installation, everything went downhill from there. Neither Eclipse or CFEclipse are not hosted on SourceForge. Eclipse offers it's own download site and mirrors. Depending on what mirror you choose, it can be a little confusing figuring out what file you want. However, it's generally not as hellish as the standard SourceForge download page. CFEclipse is on Tigris. There's installation instructions on the CFEclipse project home page: http://cfeclipse.tigris.org/ Several of the patient and helpful people working on CFEclipse tried to help, but unlike a paid-for package like StudioMX, I had no right to DEMAND support. I could not insist on whatever it took to get it all going properly for me. IN the end i had to just cross it off my list as another probably-good-product-i-have-to-have-another-go-at-one-day. I've had bad luck getting Eclipse setup with various sundry plug-ins that I need to make it truly useful for me. So, I know how you feel. I've got it all up and working right now. However, I, umm, don't use it. :P It's still missing functionality that I find useful in HomeSite (dual file managers, for instance), and even the platform runtime install of Eclipse is unbearably slow. It's as bad as Dreamweaver. That's the difference between a user-supported open source application and a fully commercial paid-for app. It is the difference between many of them. But I found the Subversion and TortoiseSVN install and setup much better than commercial products. It really depends on the project in question and the closed source products it's competing against. In the case of CFEclipse, I can see if it all goes well, it's a very versatile and developer-oriented product. If it doesnt all go well it's a bloody nightmare. Well, if your trouble was getting Eclipse up and running, then it may have been a lack of familiarity with Eclipse itself. Eclipse has a pretty steep learning curve. I had to spend several days just trying to grasp Eclipse. I found that taking some of the tutorials for Java developers helped me gain an understanding of what Eclipse is (a platform for IDE development) and what it isn't (a pre-packaged, full featured IDE). That approach may or may not work for you. If your problem was with CFEclipse, then your expectations might have been a bit too high. CFEclipse is still relatively immature at this point. It's a great plug-in, but it hasn't been around for very long, the users are increasing dramatically at the moment (which means many more people are testing on various platforms), and it's under very active development. I would imagine that, in another year or so, development will have slowed to a more maintainable pace and features will be more fully fleshed out. Right now, each new build of CFEclipse seems radically different than the previous build. That's fine for many developers (fine for me, in fact), but it sounds like you're really looking for something more stable. It's the same with the open source CMS Farcry. If installation goes well, it's obviously straightforward. If you hit a snag you can't DEMAND someone help you fix it, you are reliant on the goodwill of other users. If they lose patience with your problem or run out of ideas, there's no obligation on them to stick with you. I had a non-standard setup with Farcry, and despite several days of working at it, with the assistance of several other users, I couldn't get it going in my setup before I reached decision time. So I had to dump it. If I'd bought and paid for it, I could have said you guys fix it so it works and dont whine to me about the cost. And most commercial companies will politely refund your money. Of course, I'm not generally buying enterprise software for big money with large installation and support contracts. Nevertheless, I haven't had much luck with that approach. Have you? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message
RE: Debugging Server Hangs
We've been seeing this behavior as well. In our case, it's on a production system. It appears that a couple of long running requests are causing threads to pile up. At some point -- usually very quickly -- IIS quits answering requests. We are able to reproduce the behavior by launching a very long running, fairly CPU intensive process. Specifically, we run a template which zips up a few gigs of log files. This template is not the source of the problem normally, but it has helped us troubleshoot the issue. If we run the template and then run cfstat, we can watch the requests pile up and the average time taken grow. Meanwhile, we monitor long running page requests (over 15 seconds) by tailing the server.log file. What seems odd is that, though the long running request consumes between 25% and 50% CPU as it zip log files, there would seem to be enough resources left for other pages. That is not the case, apparently. Pages that normally execute in milliseconds may take 15 seconds or more. Anyway, we're monitoring the log files for long running requests and fixing pages that take more than 15 seconds to execute. So far so good. The server has been running since last Friday without crashing. Believe it or not, that's a recent record. To give you an example of the kind of stuff we're finding, in one case, a developer had apparently tried to perform a naïve optimization by executing a cfflush with every loop iteration. Instead of taking 1 second to run the loop outright, it took 30 seconds. I'm sure the cfflush made the page seem to return more quickly from his remote location. These fixes are easy enough and they seem to produce good results. However, I'm still at a loss to explain the train wreck behavior. Why does a single long running process take down an entire server when there would seem to be resources left to handle additional requests? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Kazmierczak, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 3:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Debugging Server Hangs What does everyone do about tracking down pages/code that cause the cf server to slow down or hang and you are left with restarting the services/ machine to solve it? Every once in a while our CF server comes to a crawl or get a JRUN closed connection error. Looking in the log files doesn't give too much information. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a CF Profiler like the SQL Server SQL Profiler to see what code was being processed and such? What does everyone else do about this? Kevin. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:190093 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Debugging Server Hangs
One thing I meant to mention in my previous message is that ColdFusion debugging *severely* hampers performance. I've seen pages that take 10 times (or more) as long with debugging enabled. Extensive use of CFCs and UDFs, in particular, seem to drag the server to its knees if you have debugging enabled. So, you could be seeing the same behavior that I described in my previous message for a different reason. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Kazmierczak, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 3:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Debugging Server Hangs What does everyone do about tracking down pages/code that cause the cf server to slow down or hang and you are left with restarting the services/ machine to solve it? Every once in a while our CF server comes to a crawl or get a JRUN closed connection error. Looking in the log files doesn't give too much information. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a CF Profiler like the SQL Server SQL Profiler to see what code was being processed and such? What does everyone else do about this? Kevin. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:190094 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Configuring IIS to Handle 404 Errors
I've done something similar to this already, actually. However, for one site in particular, I need to take ColdFusion out of the equation. I need to let the Web server handle 404 errors for that site. It used to be the case that you could simply tick off the Check that file exists box and be done with it. However, with the wildcard mapping, this doesn't seem to be the case anymore. To be honest, this is the first time I've noticed the wildcard mapping. I'm a little uneasy with the thought that JRun will be invoked at least at some level for static html pages. That just seems like a huge surface area and a possible source of conflicts. So, at least part of the reason I'm asking at this point is that I'm interested in eliminating the wildcard mapping altogether. Unfortunately, I can't find any documentation on it so I'm not sure why it exists. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: JediHomer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 2:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Configuring IIS to Handle 404 Errors You could potentially code the 404 with a switch/case scenario to do different things and show different output depending on the host header (CGI.Server_Name) On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:27:47 -0500, Ben Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately, that won't work for us. We host multiple sites on the same server. The ColdFusion error handler is server wide. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: JediHomer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 11:37 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Configuring IIS to Handle 404 Errors THere is an option in the CFAdministrator that lets you set a 404 template. We just use this, then let the template redirect the user to an appropriate page, or alternativly email developers etc. HTH On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:25:12 -0500, Ben Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm having trouble configuring IIS to handle 404 errors for ColdFusion pages. Enabling the Check that file exists option on the .cfm extension mapping is not enough. It appears that ColdFusion (MX 6.1 with Updater) has added a wildcard mapping. If I enable Check that file exists on that mapping, IIS traps 404 errors. However, I'm not sure what effect that has. This site in particular uses Flash Remoting. I'm a little worried that the wildcard mapping handles those types of requests (flashservices/gateway), for instance. Does anyone know what the wildcard mapping is used for? Am I going about this the wrong way? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189905 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Revised Thread - Uploading CSV and Validation
CSVs are much trickier than a lot of people realize to handle in my experience. For example, there are two separate CSV formats -- one the world uses and one Microsoft uses. Actually, there is no standard for CSV. There are just about as many formats as there are implementations. Consequently, CSV is not a particularly good interchange format. It's my understanding that what we commonly refer to as the CSV format was popularized by Excel. Other applications, including those from Microsoft, have used formats similar. In many cases, the format is loosely based on the Excel format. For instance, I don't believe the Excel format allows embedded carriage returns and line feeds. Excel also trims leading zeros and white space. Many other implementations do not. They will also allow carriage returns and line feeds provided the data in question is enclosed in quotes. How do you know which type you're going to get? Secondly, did you know that you can have carriage returns within a given field, and it's perfectly valid? Be careful. By using the word valid you're suggesting that CSV can be validated against something akin to a DTD or that there's some overriding standard. This is not the case. The Excel format is the closest thing to a de facto standard, but it is also one of the most limiting. Consequently, what one application considers valid is not necessarily what another considers valid. You can have two CSV files which are perfectly valid in their own context but which can't be shared with other applications. There are quite a few articles on CSV formatted files and ways to parse them. I found this one in particular to be useful when I was writing a simple CSV parser: http://www.creativyst.com/Doc/Articles/CSV/CSV01.htm Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189915 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Revised Thread - Uploading CSV and Validation
Which further emphasizes my point that basic ColdFusion solutions of looking for carriage returns and the like is not a robust way to solve this problem. I wasn't debating that point. However, it's worth noting that this is entirely dependent on the application which generated the CSV file. If the files are all coming from Excel -- which I believe does not allow embedded carriage returns -- then scanning for carriage returns is perfectly fine. Well, I would have said validated if I meant to a DTD or XSD or some such, and I've never even heard of any validation mechanisms for CSV files other than parsing the file itself. But you did use the word valid. That is a loaded term on a ColdFusion mailing list filled with Web developers. I was merely trying to clarify the statement. Your messages seemed to suggest that there was a right and wrong way to parse a CSV file. I was simply trying to convey that there are as many correct ways to parse CSV files as there are different flavors of CSV because CSV is not a standard. Sure, but the same could be said of almost any transport medium. For example, an XML file might be valid on one system, but not necessarily on another if the DTD/XSD it validates against is different. I think you're conflating the issue (possibly because I mentioned DTDs in the previous message). There is an XML standard. Consequently, I can validate the XML document to ensure that it's properly *formatted*. I can be reasonably sure that, if I create a standards compliant XML document, that other applications will be able to parse it. What they do with it from there is up to them. It's worth noting that, if they can't, then it's probably their fault. In rare cases, it may be an ambiguity in the standard. This is not the case with CSV. The format of a CSV file can be perfectly valid for one application but invalid for another. XML also supports DTDs, which allow you to validate the *structure* of the document (as opposed to the format). If a DTD uses an absolute URI (or is otherwise available on both systems), then the structure of the document can be validated on both systems. Since there is no CSV standard, the format cannot be validated. The closest thing you get to a DTD in a CSV file is when some applications include the column names in the first line of the file. This tells you the number of columns that you can expect. That's a good one. I'm particularly interested in the CSV to XML converter they posted. Thanks for the link. BTW, I agree with the posts that suggest using DTS, SQLLDR and other such apps. They've already solved a good deal of the integration problems. DTS in particular provides a nifty wizard which lets the developer describe the CVS flavor that you have. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189936 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Revised Thread - Uploading CSV and Validation
Agreed. For the record, it looks like Excell (I'm using 2003) does indeed allow carriage returns. I just ran a quick test (when in the cell, hit Alt+Enter to start a new line within it) and it saved out with the carriage return. Good to know. Thanks for testing. That wasn't my point at all. I was actually pointing out the opposite -- that there were too many different ways to parse CSV files, so the usually common ColdFusion suggestion of looping over rows and looking for carriage returns won't necessarily suffice. I understood your point and was generally agreeing. I was just trying to clarify because I thought it might be confusing. In other words, I could see how someone would read your message and think that, if they added support for embedded carriage returns and line breaks, they would somehow have a valid CSV parser. I use Oracle here at work, and my experience with SQLLDR is that, while it's an extremely powerful way of bulk loading data, the format of the file needs to be perfect for it to succeed. Hence the suggestion of going through the different steps to verify that you have a validly structured CSV file (with the Ostermiller utilities, etc.), particularly when I have external clients who will mess up their files from time to time. I've not used DTS personally, but by many accounts, it's an invaluable part of the SQL Server product and is a great fit for this sort of work. I have very little experience with Oracle and none (directly) with SQLLDR. I *ass*umed it was similar to DTS. :) DTS, though awkward in many ways, is a pretty incredible piece of technology. I've seen sites that use thousands of DTS packages and a simple VB scheduler to manage all sorts of operations (data migration, work flow, data management, data validation, etc). It surprises me how many of the daily operations at several Fortune 500 companies are handled this way. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Sams Teach Yourself Regular Expressions in 10 Minutes by Ben Forta http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=40 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189939 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: WIKI App?
I took a look at this, but couldn't quite figure out how to set it up. Specifically, I couldn't find a directory that looked like a web root? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Keith Gaughan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 1:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: WIKI App? Jake. wrote: Keith, I'm happy to help bang around on it. I'll check out sourceforge. Well, I've warned you of the state it's in! But any help'd be appreciated. So are the SeedWiki on SF and www.seedwiki.com the same thing? I believe so. If so, it's change it's product... it's now a free app for limited, public usage and Web based. Charges apply for private WIKIs I think the deal is that SeedWiki itself is FLOSS, but the project sponsors offer a hosting service in addition. K. -- Keith Gaughan, Developer Digital Crew Ltd., Pembroke House, Pembroke Street, Cork, Ireland http://digital-crew.com/ ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189940 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: WIKI App?
Sorry, I was referring to SeedWiki. There were downloads listed. I took a look through each but couldn't make heads or tails of the site structure. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Keith Gaughan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 1:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: WIKI App? Ben Rogers wrote: I took a look at this, but couldn't quite figure out how to set it up. Specifically, I couldn't find a directory that looked like a web root? Of what: FusionWiki or SeedWiki? -- Keith Gaughan, Developer Digital Crew Ltd., Pembroke House, Pembroke Street, Cork, Ireland http://digital-crew.com/ ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189957 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: CF - switching from MS-SQL to Oracle (neq Neo, Morpheus, Trin ity)
One thing to keep in mind is Oracle is case sensitive where if I remember right MSSQL is not? Microsoft SQL Server uses a case-insensitive collation sequence by default. Collation sequences describe case sensitivity, sort order as well as the character set. This can be configured at the server, database, table, and column level. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=11 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189639 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: CF - switching from MS-SQL to Oracle (neq Neo, Morpheus, Trin ity)
Small correction. The collation sequence stores the code page used, not the character set. That's determined by the column data type. My mistake. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Ben Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 9:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: CF - switching from MS-SQL to Oracle (neq Neo, Morpheus, Trin ity) One thing to keep in mind is Oracle is case sensitive where if I remember right MSSQL is not? Microsoft SQL Server uses a case-insensitive collation sequence by default. Collation sequences describe case sensitivity, sort order as well as the character set. This can be configured at the server, database, table, and column level. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189640 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
SOT: Simple Content Management
We need a tool to collect and organize information in order to build documentation for a project in a collaborative fashion. We've actually used blogs in the past to document the installation of software and such. A blog won't work in this case, however, as we need to be able organize information in a hierarchical fashion, not chronological. Wiki's are interesting and would probably work technically speaking. However, I think it will be too difficult to teach everyone how to use a Wiki. Also, a Wiki is a little too free form. We need to define the structure and let people provide the content. Does such a tool exist? We don't really care whether or not it's written in ColdFusion. It needs to run on Windows, however. I think we're looking for something Web based, but that's not a requirement (we have admin access to desktops and can install software). Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189660 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Configuring IIS to Handle 404 Errors
I'm having trouble configuring IIS to handle 404 errors for ColdFusion pages. Enabling the Check that file exists option on the .cfm extension mapping is not enough. It appears that ColdFusion (MX 6.1 with Updater) has added a wildcard mapping. If I enable Check that file exists on that mapping, IIS traps 404 errors. However, I'm not sure what effect that has. This site in particular uses Flash Remoting. I'm a little worried that the wildcard mapping handles those types of requests (flashservices/gateway), for instance. Does anyone know what the wildcard mapping is used for? Am I going about this the wrong way? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Sams Teach Yourself Regular Expressions in 10 Minutes by Ben Forta http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=40 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189527 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Configuring IIS to Handle 404 Errors
Unfortunately, that won't work for us. We host multiple sites on the same server. The ColdFusion error handler is server wide. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: JediHomer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 11:37 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Configuring IIS to Handle 404 Errors THere is an option in the CFAdministrator that lets you set a 404 template. We just use this, then let the template redirect the user to an appropriate page, or alternativly email developers etc. HTH On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:25:12 -0500, Ben Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm having trouble configuring IIS to handle 404 errors for ColdFusion pages. Enabling the Check that file exists option on the .cfm extension mapping is not enough. It appears that ColdFusion (MX 6.1 with Updater) has added a wildcard mapping. If I enable Check that file exists on that mapping, IIS traps 404 errors. However, I'm not sure what effect that has. This site in particular uses Flash Remoting. I'm a little worried that the wildcard mapping handles those types of requests (flashservices/gateway), for instance. Does anyone know what the wildcard mapping is used for? Am I going about this the wrong way? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189545 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
John Dowdell Wants to Know What's Wrong with Macromedia
This is worth reading and commenting on: http://www.markme.com/jd/archives/006722.cfm Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189546 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: The Death of DevNet :-(
As a general rule I'd rather chew off my right arm than deal with sales people. And as a general rule, if a company can't be bothered to advertise the price of something as simple as a software suite, then I'm not going to deal with them. I hate calling sales people, haggling over price, and still feeling like I got screwed when I hang up the phone. The other thing that really irks me about this whole thing is the lack of communication from Macromedia on this issue. My license is expiring today. I got messages from Macromedia warning me that I have to hurry and renew my subscription as recently as last week. I still have yet to receive anything from Macromedia notifying me that program was being phased out. They have my e-mail address. They have my mailing address. Do they need a blood sample before they'll tell me what the heck is going on? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189364 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: The Death of DevNet :-(
Just received mine. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Christian Cantrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:14 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: The Death of DevNet :-( On Jan 5, 2005, at 9:40 AM, Ben Rogers wrote: I still have yet to receive anything from Macromedia notifying me that program was being phased out. They have my e-mail address. They have my mailing address. Do they need a blood sample before they'll tell me what the heck is going on? Emails were sent out over the last couple of days to all DevNet subscribers. Anyway, I really really really encourage you guys to send feedback and questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] All the right people are on that list. All we can do on cf-talk is post URLs to information on the website which you guys have probably already seen. Thanks, Christian ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189415 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: ASP help
There's nothing directly analogous. However, if you have not declared option explicit, then you can do this: If Not IsEmpty(pid) Then End If That will also work if you've dimensioned the variable but have not yet set it to anything. That said, you should really declare option explicit at the top of every page. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Asim Manzur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 9:17 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: ASP help could someone please tell me the following code in ASP??? Thanks once again. CFIF IsDefined(pid) do this cfelseif IsDefined(jid) do this cfif ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189419 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: The Death of DevNet :-(
I wasn't aware of the DevNet mailing list. It must have escaped my attention when I subscribed to DevNet. Anyway, I don't intend to subscribe now. My subscription officially ends today. Though I intended to renew my DevNet subscription (the renewal price was right for all the software and DRKs), I don't intend on joining a new program. In fact, as it stands, I don't believe I'll be purchasing any more client apps from Macromedia. I've been largely disappointed with the Flash and Dreamweaver. The one app I really truly liked, HomeSite, is dying the slow death. Actually, I have quite a few customers using Contribute. So, when the next version of Contribute comes out, I'll probably need to purchase that. But that alone is not enough reason to join a new subscription program. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Guy Rish [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 3:14 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: The Death of DevNet :-( Ben, I only got my email this morning. I'm guessing that some of the lag is a batching/traffic issue or such. There is always the hope that if we collectively (as Christian as advised) hit the DevNet mailing list that Macromedia will see that adjusting their licensing scheme to handle the problems they are experiencing from an Enterprise standpoint is not correctly gauged for their basic developer community. Perhaps they might see there is some logic in making some better provisions for us. I'm guessing (hoping that) because Sean and Christian are both urging the group to collectively express themselves that there might be time to affect some change before things seriously get rolling with this new scheme. rish -Original Message- From: Ben Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 8:41 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: The Death of DevNet :-( As a general rule I'd rather chew off my right arm than deal with sales people. And as a general rule, if a company can't be bothered to advertise the price of something as simple as a software suite, then I'm not going to deal with them. I hate calling sales people, haggling over price, and still feeling like I got screwed when I hang up the phone. The other thing that really irks me about this whole thing is the lack of communication from Macromedia on this issue. My license is expiring today. I got messages from Macromedia warning me that I have to hurry and renew my subscription as recently as last week. I still have yet to receive anything from Macromedia notifying me that program was being phased out. They have my e-mail address. They have my mailing address. Do they need a blood sample before they'll tell me what the heck is going on? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189437 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: US Weather from NWS (was RE: CF-Tag Weather for UK (London)?)
Sadly, I've found quite a few Web services that can't be consumed by ColdFusion. ColdFusion simply does not provide enough information to debug these types of problems (the dreaded argument type mismatch is a perfect example). Consequently, I've taken to writing wrappers in ASP.Net. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Ian Skinner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 3:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: US Weather from NWS (was RE: CF-Tag Weather for UK (London)?) Well, I made a small amount of progress. I have at least proved that ColdFusion can retrieve some kind of data from a National Weather Service web service. But, it is not very useful yet. First of all, I played with the code, and I was able to get a different error Could not perform web service invocation NDFDgenByDay because java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: argument type mismatch. I have not been able to figure out what argument has a mismatched type. But the code was now finding the service and its methods. Then I found a different web service URI that I can get data from one of the two functions to be returned. But this data is not properly formed XML. There are several close tags /someTag without an appropriate start tag. This makes the data fairly difficult to use, I think. I wanted to post my progress here, so that others interested with more web service skill then I may be able to figure this out. I would really love to be able to get data like this, because it could be a very nice addition to an Outdoor Recreation site I maintain. MY CODE --- cfscript // Parameters for the NDFgenByDay function NDFDgenByDay = structNew(); NDFDgenByDay.latitude = 38.9936; NDFDgenByDay.longitude = -77.0224; NDFDgenByDay.format = 12hourly; NDFDgenByDay.startDate = 2005-01-05; NDFDgenByDay.numDays = 7; // Parameters for the NDFDgen function NDFDgen = StructNew(); NDFDgen.Latitude = 38.9936; NDFDgen.Longitude = -77.0224; NDFDgen.StartTime = 2005-01-05T00:00:00.5; NDFDgen.Endtime = 2005-01-06T00:00:00.5; NDFDgen.Product = glance; weatherParameters = StructNew(); weatherParameters.maxt = true; weatherParameters.mint = true; weatherParameters.temp = true; weatherParameters.dew = true; weatherParameters.pop12 = true; weatherParameters.qpf = true; weatherParameters.snow = true; weatherParameters.sky = true; weatherParameters.wspd = true; weatherParameters.wdir = true; weatherParameters.wx = true; weatherParameters.icons = true; weatherParameters.waveh = true; NDFDgen.weatherParameters = weatherParameters; //The new URI I found when digging around the documentation ws1 = CreateObject(webservice, http://www.nws.noaa.gov/forecasts/xml/SOAP_server/ndfdXMLserver.php?wsdl; ); //The Original URL ws2 = CreateObject(webservice, http://www.nws.noaa.gov/forecasts/xml/DWMLgen/wsdl/ndfdXML.wsdl;); //Initilize result strings so that there will always be something to output. aStringWS1 = 'No Output Generated'; aStringWS2 = 'No Output Generated'; /cfscript !--- TWO possible URI for the web service. http://www.nws.noaa.gov/forecasts/xml/DWMLgen/wsdl/ndfdXML.wsdl http://www.nws.noaa.gov/forecasts/xml/SOAP_server/ndfdXMLserver.php? wsdl --- cftry !--- This call to the new web service will return data, but not well formed XML --- cfset aStringWS1 = ws1.NDFDgenByDay(argumentCollection = NDFDgenByDay) cfcatch type=anycfdump var=#cfcatch# expand=no label=ERROR: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/forecasts/xml/SOAP_server/ndfdXMLserver.php?wsdl; /cfcatch /cftry cftry !--- This call to the original web service does not return data, but errors with the mismatched argurment type error. --- cfset aStringWS2 = ws2.NDFDgenByDay(argumentCollection = NDFDgenByDay) cfcatch type=anycfdump var=#cfcatch# expand=no label=ERROR: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/forecasts/xml/DWMLgen/wsdl/ndfdXML.wsdl;/cfcatch /cftry h1Results/h1 cfoutput h2http://www.nws.noaa.gov/forecasts/xml/SOAP_server/ndfdXMLserver. php?wsdl/h2 #HTMLEditFormat(aStringWS1)# hr h2http://www.nws.noaa.gov/forecasts/xml/DWMLgen/wsdl/ndfdXML.wsdl /h2 #HTMLEditFormat(aStringWS2)# /cfoutput -- Ian Skinner Web Programmer BloodSource www.BloodSource.org Sacramento, CA C code. C code run. Run code run. Please! - Cynthia Dunning Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient
RE: The Death of DevNet :-(
Let me get this straight. For DevNet subscribers such as myself, the upgrade path is the Volume License Program, which seems to use a convoluted sliding point scale to determine price? That's supposed to be less confusing? http://www.macromedia.com/buy/volume_license/vlo/ I've been surfing the Macromedia site for the past hour trying to figure out exactly how much what I used to have will cost in the future and I still don't know. Looks like I have to call the Macromedia Call Center just to get a price quote. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Christian Cantrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 1:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: The Death of DevNet :-( On Jan 4, 2005, at 9:09 AM, Alex Sherwood wrote: Any idea why MACR would do this? Macromedia is consolidating subscription programs. Right now, there is MVLP (Macromedia Volume Licensing Program), DevNet, Studio, and subscription programs that we have taken on through acquisitions. It's confusing for customers and expensive for Macromedia. It's like code re-factoring, but in a business/sales sense. You should be able to find answers to all your questions here: http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/subscriptions/ Any issues that are not answered on the Macromedia website can be emailed to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Christian ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189285 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Well - I feel like an idiot.
But the core advice of always lock is definitely the safer option. I don't think I agree with the always lock mentality. This inevitably leads to deadlocks, and I don't believe ColdFusion handles deadlocks in a graceful way. By that I mean that ColdFusion does not roll back all operations in a lock (as if it were a transaction) when killing off deadlock victims. Consequently, you still end up with inconsistent or corrupted data, and the end user sees hard error messages. So, unless you fully understand locking and its side effects, I would not recommend that you lock your code. Even understanding all this, I would recommend locking judiciously. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - New Atlanta http://www.newatlanta.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189080 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Well - I feel like an idiot.
I'm not sure how this relates in CF... The only real way that I know of to get a real deadlock in CF is to nest lock requests. Like the following: cflock scope=Application ... cflock scope=Session ... /cflock /cflock As far as I know, it's only possible via nested locks. There's actually a good deal on deadlocks in the ColdFusion documentation: http://livedocs.macromedia.com/coldfusion/6.1/htmldocs/shared52.htm http://livedocs.macromedia.com/coldfusion/6.1/htmldocs/shared52.htm And even then is only a real problem if you are inconsistent with the nesting order of the lock requests. But what happens if you call a UDF, CFC method or custom tag within a lock? Each of these provides a degree of encapsulation, meaning you don't know what they might be doing. I don't think CF does anything special about this however - the templates just timeout normally unable to finish their work. I think you're correct. In fact, I was trying to argue that the problem is that ColdFusion does not recognize deadlocks like an RDBMS would, for instance. ColdFusion can't detect a deadlock situation, choose a deadlock victim, and rollback the changes that that script has made. In other words I don't believe CF has the concept of deadlock victims, but I could be wrong. As far as I can tell when a lock request times out, it's dead - it either skips the locked code (being unable to obtain the lock) or ends the template with an error (depending on how you set up the lock request). I used the term deadlock victims in the first paragraph to mean the templates were victims of a deadlock situation, not that ColdFusion had determined that they were deadlocked victims and treated them as such. Sorry for the confusion. I'm way too tired to consider this clearly, but I'm not sure I see the potential for a deadlock where some locked code is run and would need to be rolled back (I'm not sure how you would roll back arbitrary code even then). The issue with race conditions is that you end up with data that's in an inconsistent state. If you have two templates that get terminated because of a deadlock situation, both templates could have updated some information, but not all. In other words, the end result of a race condition and a deadlock is the same: inconsistent data. Instead of a race condition (which can often be harmless), you caused a deadlock. Neither process finished. Some data reflects the state before each template ran. Some data, after. With a deadlock, the user gets an error in the process. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - New Atlanta http://www.newatlanta.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189082 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Well - I feel like an idiot.
Which is exactly why you have to be consistent with locking. ;^) I don't see how consistency directly relates to what I was talking about. Modular code generally knows very little about its context: that's the whole point. You can be entirely consistent and still end up with deadlocks if one piece of code isn't aware of what's going on around it. Generally nesting concerns would only happen with scope level locking or site-wide name-level locks. The names used in name level locks are completely arbitrary. What happens when you call a third party CFC that just happens to use the same name that you use? Better yet, what happens when your cfc, which locks the session scope, accesses a singleton registry which locks the application scope? In those cases, despite the encapsulation of extensions you'll need to know something about the application architecture to create them in first place (I think). You're assuming you have access to and an intimate knowledge of all the code in question. I used a third party CFC in a recent project. It's encrypted, so I have no idea what locks it might create, what scope they are or what it names them, etc. We used the Component Kit in another project. That stores quite a bit of information in the server scope of all places. How did that information get there? True - but that would be a failure of design, not of locking. If your template is doing something outside of locks that would affect code inside of locks like that I would think you'd need to reevaluate how you're doing things. All failures are a failure of design. :) The point I was trying to make is that you have to know a good deal about locking and how your code will be used to lock properly. Otherwise, you end up deadlocks instead of race conditions. The end result is the same: inconsistent data. Consequently, I don't believe that the lock everything paradigm is any better than not locking at all. That depends - but I agree in theory. I still stand by my belief that locking is safer than unlocking if you don't know what you're doing. This is clearly something we disagree on. I'm sure I'm biased because I've seen far more deadlock issues than race conditions. In most cases data integrity is more important than experience and since nested locks are the only way to create a deadlock in CF it seems to me rare that a novice would encounter the issue. If the novice is locking everything, then deadlocks are sure to ensue. ColdFusion does nothing to prevent the loss of data integrity in a deadlock situation. Of course I think we both can agree that the preferred thing is to actually gain an understanding of threaded requests and locking before writing a CF application. ;^) Yes, but short of that, I would not recommend locking everything. I would recommend the opposite: do not lock unless you have a reason to. In practice I actually write much more like you're talking about: very few locks. Since I know (or at least think I know) what's what I feel confident in choosing when to an when not to lock. And you've probably had very few deadlock issues. I do the same. I generally have a handful of well named locks in any application. I've had very few deadlock issues and, in almost a decade of Web programming, I can probably count the number of race conditions I've seen on one hand. Then I get bitten in the ass by something the code that I started the thread with. ;^) (I know that wasn't really a locking issue per se, but it's definitely in the ballpark.) I know what you mean. It's always when I'm most sure of myself that I'm the furthest from being right. :) I actually had to write my own locking routines in ASP a couple of years ago. ASP lacks anything analogous to the cflock tag. To make a long story short, I discovered the hard way that locking was a far more intricate and delicate process than I had thought. I came back to ColdFusion with a new found respect for locking issues. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189088 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Well - I feel like an idiot.
Many session-based sites run well without any cflocks but they're smaller sites.. It doesn't seem to me to be a policy of knowing what your doing or not, its more about the fact that you don't ever want data mixed up, ever. Which can happen as the result of deadlocks. To me its worth a few more lines of code to always protect my user's data. I don't believe Jim or I are arguing against locking or that locking causes code to become too verbose. We simply disagree over whether or not people who do not understand locking should lock every block of code that is stored in a shared scope. I can see where locking or not locking application variables could be harmless but I stand firm on sessions needing to be locked. It depends more on the data and its use then the actual ColdFusion scope involved. Some applications store data pertaining to user sessions in the server scope. Personally, I'm not a big fan of this, but I'm sure others have their reasons. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189089 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Check for next year
cfset theDate = dateAdd(m, 1, now()) cfoutput #month(theDate)# -- #year(theDate)# /cfoutput You can wrap month() in monthAsString() if you want to display the name of the month rather than the month as a number. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Robert Orlini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:53 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Check for next year I have a popup that will display one month in advance. The issue I have is that users can view January, but the display still reads January 2004. I have the month and year formatted below. How can I check and/or display the year 2005? The dateformat below does not take that in consideration. Thanks! Report for month of: #month# -- #dateformat(now(), )# Robert O. HWW ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - RUWebby http://www.ruwebby.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:189003 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: My Init() in my CFC...am I on the right track?
Personally I really hate the notion of chaining setter calls (but I can see way others may like it). I do find that much harder to read. But other chaining is great. Being able to chain the create and the init() together seems perfectly sound to me. As does any call which returns a CFC as a property then calls a property of that return as in something like this: cfset Name = Session.SessionCFC.getUserCFC().getName() / I agree. I was only referring to setter methods (though I may not have been very clear about that). In the above example, you're using getters. A getter's purpose is to return something. Conseqently, the purpose of the line above seems very clear to me. This is in contrast to an example posted by Sean in another thread: person.setFirstName(Sean).setLastName(Corfield) I find it more difficult to read. I would be very surprised if it were any faster than two lines of code. So, I was wondering if there were any other benefits or tricks that I'm missing. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188925 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: My Init() in my CFC...am I on the right track?
So am I to understand correctly...that you can ONLY chain methods that return this? Or that if your init function returns an object then all methods can be chained? I'm reading all of this conversation as the former (the first one) meaning that if you WANT to be able to chain a method, that method needs to return this. If you want to chain method calls on the same object, all of the methods in question must return this: person.setFirstName(Sean).setLastName(Corfield) In this example, you have a person component with methods setFirstName and setLastName. Each of those methods is returning this. The long way to accomplish the above is: person.setFirstName(Sean) person.setLastName(Corfield) In the other example posted, multiple CFCs are involved: Name = Session.SessionCFC.getUserCFC().getName() In this example, the getUserCFC() method belongs to the SessionCFC component. It is returning a UserCFC component, not this. The getName() method belongs to the UserCFC component, not the SessionCFC component. The longer way to accomplish the above would be: User = Session.SessionCFC.getUserCFC() Name = User.getName() Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - CFDynamics http://www.cfdynamics.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188937 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: shopping cart, session variables - best practices
To expand on Dave's statement the times you would want Client variables over memory (session) variables for storage is when the application needs to operate in a cluster of web servers. Sharing memory (session) variables then become impracticable. Session state stored in client variables also survive service and server restarts. Even though he actually did, it just goes without saying: memory is faster than I/O. Under a heavy load, this is no doubt true. However, I was recently surprised to find that under a small to moderate load, there may be no noticeable performance difference. I was recently tasked with upgrading a site from ColdFusion 5 to MX. I had used client variables when originally designing the site for various reasons. Mostly, I was trying to avoid locking issues and anticipating the need for clustering. Suffice it to say, we never had to cluster the site and locking for stability's sake is no longer necessary. So, when performing the upgrade, I decided to test the performance difference between using session variables and client variables. It took me a couple of hours to update the code base (20,000 lines of code). I was surprised to find that, under a minimal to moderate load, I could not measure the performance difference using the tools I had. Consequently, I decided not to make the switch (don't fix what ain't broke). That said, for new sites, I generally use the session scope because I can store complex objects such as CFCs in the session scope. Additionally, since the session scope is now thread safe, I don't have to worry about whether or not every developer is properly locking their code. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - CFDynamics http://www.cfdynamics.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188971 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: My Init() in my CFC...am I on the right track?
This allows you to chain method calls, as others have noted, and will probably help get you more into the habit of using cfset and method calls (rather than cfinvoke which I also advise against). Just to be clear, are you advising people to chain method calls? Personally, I'm not crazy about this practice. I find it much more difficult to read code that does several different things on one line. Additionally, it just seems unintuitive to have a setter method return a variable. If a setter returns a variable, I have to decide if it's meaningful in some way or if the guy before me was just being cute to save himself from having to type a few extra characters. Anyway, I'm just wondering if there's something I'm missing here. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 Why? I think there's a psychological hint behind cfobject and cfinvoke - they look like old-school tags and, hence, old school thinking; whereas if you make a conscious effort to switch to cfset and use createObject() / method calls directly, you'll get a hint that this isn't just old-school tags and it'll help you switch gears into new school (OO / CFC) thinking. This part somewhat confuses me, but again, I'm using CFOBJECT and not CreateObject so I'm not really setting anything equal to anything. Which just reinforces my point about psychological hints above... -- Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/ Team Fusebox -- http://www.fusebox.org/ Breeze Me! -- http://www.corfield.org/breezeme Got Gmail? -- I have 6 invites to give away! If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188902 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: AW: Prefixing local variables
No, no, no, no, no Even Microsoft have given up on this practice as being old-fashioned and causing confusion and making code hard to read! Hungarian notation is a *terrible* practice! It makes code hard to read and it makes maintenance *much* harder! I think that really depends on who's doing the reading and what they're reading the code in. Actually, I'm certain of this. By way of explanation, I spent a good deal of the last two years writing an application in ASP/VBScript with Visual Basic COM objects. VBScript is a dynamic, weakly typed language. Visual Basic is for the most part as well, though it does support type declarations. However, to interact with ASP, you pretty much have to declare everything a variant at the interface level. One of the project requirements was that I use prefixes like str, bool, int, dbl, and obj. I was against it because I saw little value in it, and at the time, I personally found it more difficult to read. However, after using the notation for two years, I find it just as easy to read as anything else. Anyway, that's what the client wanted because it was a part of their company wide coding standards. So, I consented without argument. The only place I did not use the notation was on properties and methods of objects. None of their other apps were object oriented so I didn't feel I was violating their coding conventions. At some point, there was a decision to port the app to J2EE. The developers who ported the code were actually really happy 1) that I had used common object oriented design patterns throughout and 2) that I used the naming convention. The first is relevant only in that the two apps could be structured roughly the same. In regards to the second, according to the developers, the notation made reading the code and porting it much easier. In Java, you can look at the type declaration to find out the type. In VBScript, everything is a variant. Furthermore, VBScript lacks an IDE with a debugger (yes, I know one exists, but I've yet to find a mortal who has successfully gotten it to work). The same was more or less true for the Visual Basic COM objects. As I said, you pretty much have to use variants at every public interface. The one key difference here is that Visual Basic does have a (very nice) debugger. So, they could examine the code at runtime if necessary. But, for the most part, they didn't have to. The notation told them what the language/IDE/debugger didn't. Using the naming convention in Java didn't make as much sense. In the Java/C# everything is an object paradigm, notation really doesn't work. Yes, I know there are primitive types, but you don't pass a lot of primitives around and you have to declare the type when creating the variable, severely mitigating any benefits of using the notation. However, in a dynamic, weakly typed, procedural language without type declaration, a proper IDE, or a debugger (say, like ColdFusion) notation makes a lot more sense. That said, I still don't use it in my ColdFusion code. :) ColdFusion is much better at handling implicit data type conversions than VBScript/Visual Basic (not to mention it lacks the concept of a null). ColdFusion is also a pretty wordy language: it's hard enough as is to visually parse a block of ColdFusion code. Finally, the cfdump tag goes a long way towards making up for a debugger. So, going back to my original argument, I think the benefits to type notation depend on many, many factors. You simply can't make blanket statements one way or the other. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - RUWebby http://www.ruwebby.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188751 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Prefixing local variables
Personally, within functions I always declare the following phony scope: cfset var local = StructNew() / I'll second this. For awhile, I would create a local struct only if I was creating several variables in my function. However, over time I found that, if I used the local struct, I was less apt to forget to var my function level variables. Now, I *always* create a local scope if I have local variables. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - New Atlanta http://www.newatlanta.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188752 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: In One?
Performance often comes at the sake of good design. Good design should always come first though. :) Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Micha Schopman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 8:19 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: In One? I thought you were making a joke.. :) One of the principles of a good database design is not to use lists of id's. You could better if you really want to do such thing, create a seperate table to store the path. The disadvantage of using lists is, you cannot use constraints to force existing relationships and you cannot index the data in a optimal form. You'd be better off with two tables like: Table 1: Path ID = Identity ObjectID = Int (object for which the path is stored, so this could also be ArticleID for example) Table 2: PathData ID = Identity PathID = Int (Contains ID from the Path table) Priority = TinyInt (Contains an order) Target = Int (contains the result of a path, can be ID, anything you want to) So with this data Path table: ID = 1 ObjectID = 138475384047 PathData ID = 1 PathID = 1 Priority = 1 Target = 3567242 ID = 1 PathID = 1 Priority = 2 Target = 3453456 ID = 1 PathID = 1 Priority = 3 Target = 75637 So you'll get the path for ObjectID = 138475384047 Path = 3567242,3453456,75637 And this data can easily be extended with constraints, indexes etc. Micha Schopman Software Engineer Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188634 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model
I read that, and I know that issue, but I can't fathom myself where you'd take the extra height from if this rule wasn't there: the parent's parent, and if so, how much would you take, and what would the extra height be calculated relative to. The easiest answer to that question is another question: where does the space come from in HTML? As I understand it, the browser traverses up the tree until it finds an element whose height it knows. As a result, it's more complicated to render HTML than CSS. It's my understanding that this is the reason why the spec doesn't allow for it: to keep rendering simple. At a fundamental level, I think the folks who made the CSS spec made a bad decision: I think you should make things easier on the people who use a computer. The computer is there to serve the people after all. On a practical level, the time it takes to render even a complex layout of nested tables is trivial (well, it is in anything other than Netscape 4). Even if this wasn't the case, Moore's law would have long since made it so. Went up to my retreat deep in the Ox Mountains and meditated on a solution. Then, just as it came to me in a flash of blinding light, I remembered somebody'd already solved this particular problem before: http://www.redmelon.net/tstme/3cols2/ That's a great example. That's far better than any I found (I must of looked at 50 different examples before sending my last message). Nevertheless, it still suffers from some of the issues we've been talking about. Specifically, the widths of the left and right columns are specified in several locations. They are specified as the border for the outer class (similar to how margin was used in the example I posted). They are also specified in negative margin values for the left and right columns themselves. The latter doesn't bother me so much because the left column already needs to know its size. So, specifying the size as a width and negative margin value isn't too bad. However, having to make other elements cognoscente of the column's size is a more serious violation of the principle of orthogonality. Nevertheless, it goes a long way towards mitigating those issues. There are also a few extra divs and classes in there (most notably the separation between inner and outer). That's not a big deal since the tr's and td's in the table example even that out. The style sheet code makes their example at least 3 times as long as the one I posted (I actually rewrote their example with as little code as possible before posting just so I would better understand it), but it goes a long way towards separating presentation from content. All in all, that's a pretty good example. I still think CSS is screwy in this regard, but at least there are workarounds. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188538 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model
You're apparently new to this whole Internet thing so I'll kindly suggest that you try a different e-mail client. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Ray Champagne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 12:03 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model Why put scripts in your email? This pops up two blank windows when I read itannoying at best dude. Ray At 11:59 AM 12/21/2004, you wrote: Ben Rogers wrote: Well, your problems are manyfold. Firstly, you're depending on behaviour that was never mandated in the specs, that being that a height of 100% means 100% of the available window area or available area. I don't think he's depending on this behavior. He's lamenting the fact that CSS doesn't support a mechanism for sizing elements relative to the available space. In HTML all heights and widths are based on the available area, not the size of the containing block. What I meant by depending is that while such behaviour isn't specified in the spec, it is available in a fair few browsers in their quirks mode, but not in their standards mode. And thanks for the article below: I didn't know about the 100% height on the html element trick. I also think he's hoping that someone will prove him wrong. :) Well, I was trying to show that he was trying to put in a screw with a hammer rather than a screwdriver: it might kinda work, but it's not the right way, seeing as his problem was really a positioning one rather than If IE wasn't so braindead, it'd support fixed positioning. In this case, you could position your elements wherever you liked relative to the four sides of the screen. This is possible in Firefox, but not in IE, because MS have slowly let IE die. Fixed positioning is possible in Internet Explorer. It is even possible in versions of Internet Explorer which pre-date the Mozilla project. Again, this is not about positioning, it's about sizing elements. But what he's trying to do *is* positioning, not sizing. I know he's talking about sizing, but what I'm trying to get across is that *his* particular problem isn't with sizing, and not with the differences between the MS and W3C box models. And IE doesn't support fixed positioning, nor has it ever done so. Try the code below in IE6, Firefox, Opera, and any other browsers you can lay your hands on if you don't believe me. Also, Microsoft has not let Internet Explorer die. They are going to tie Internet Explorer upgrades to new releases of the operating system. Personally, I wish they hadn't made this decision, but that's their currently announced intention. And there only doing that because another strong contender appeared on the scene in their primary market. They *had* let it die, but now they're resurrecting it. However, none of the solutions mentioned in these articles completely solves Isaac's problem. In fact, Isaac only got as far as he did because he mixed html table tags with divs. And my argument is that he's attacking the problem with the wrong tools. Positioning is what he want. It's a pity IE just doesn't support it completely enough. Mind you, there's a set of JavaScript hacks called IE7, which you've probably heard of, that fixes a lot of these flaws in IE6. However, I was unable to eliminate the vertical scroll bar. I'm not even quite sure where this is coming from. My guess is it's the window chrome. Yup, it's part of the chrome. That, and the padding at the bottom of the outermost div is going to trigger it anyway. Here's that code: !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd; Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! Padding! I'm here because of fixed positioning! Using fixed positioning, his problem can be solved as follows: !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd; onTap Framework Home http://affiliates.macromedia.com/b.asp?id=2549p=go/dr_home_aff1 [] Hence, my point. -- Keith Gaughan, Developer Digital Crew Ltd., Pembroke House, Pembroke Street, Cork, Ireland http://digital-crew.com/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 20/12/2004
RE: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model
What I meant by depending is that while such behaviour isn't specified in the spec, it is available in a fair few browsers in their quirks mode, but not in their standards mode. I think we're referring to two separate behaviors here. I was referring to sizing relative to available area as opposed to the containing block. Specifically, I was referring to its absence in standards mode, which I think is unfortunate. Well, I was trying to show that he was trying to put in a screw with a hammer rather than a screwdriver: it might kinda work, but it's not the right way, seeing as his problem was really a positioning one rather than I see what you're saying. However, I interpreted Isaac's original post as blowing off steam. In other words, I think he was lamenting the fact that CSS (at any level) does not support sizing relative to the available content area. Isaac, let me know if I misunderstood this. My question to you is, all other things being equal, do you really think that fixed positioning is a better way to solve this problem than relative sizing? One of the great things about HTML is that elements are allowed to flow. Users can change their default font and size, disable images, etc., and the page just adapts. Fixed positioning in general -- and your proposed solution specifically -- break this very badly. As a developer, I now have to know the exact pixel size of every element on the page and position objects off the top/bottom/left/right accordingly. Worse, I have to know these at design time as opposed to runtime. I just don't understand how this can be considered an improvement? But what he's trying to do *is* positioning, not sizing. Correction, what he's trying to accomplish is sizing relative to the available content area. The only way to approximate it in CSS 2 compliant browsers is to use fixed positioning. To my knowledge, there is no way to accomplish it in CSS 1 compliant browsers (sans-html formatting). I know he's talking about sizing, but what I'm trying to get across is that *his* particular problem isn't with sizing, and not with the differences between the MS and W3C box models. And IE doesn't support fixed positioning, nor has it ever done so. Uhg. Yes it does. Internet Explorer 6 supports CSS level 1 fixed positioning. Earlier versions of IE also supported it, albeit with the broken box model. Try the code below in IE6, Firefox, Opera, and any other browsers you can lay your hands on if you don't believe me. You really need to qualify some of your statements. The code you posted uses CSS level 2 fixed positioning. Specifically, the bottom and right properties are part of the level 2 spec. Internet Explorer does not support CSS level 2: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html /cssenhancements.asp Building on top of the functionality of previous versions, Internet Explorer 6 now provides full support for CSS Level 1 And there only doing that because another strong contender appeared on the scene in their primary market. They *had* let it die, but now they're resurrecting it. Really? I've never seen anything official from Microsoft that said they were discontinuing development of Internet Explorer. All the official stuff I've seen simply said that they were not going to continue to develop Internet Explorer as a separate product. That said, the Internet Explorer team has apparently been reformed as an entity separate from the Windows team. There is some talk about an Internet Explorer 7 separate from the operating system. However, I haven't seen this announced officially. If it's true, I would guess that this is in response to competition from Firefox et al. And my argument is that he's attacking the problem with the wrong tools. Positioning is what he want. It's a pity IE just doesn't support it completely enough. Fair enough, and I agree that it's a shame that Internet Explorer 6 does not support CSS level 2. The standard is old enough that support for it could have made it into Internet Explorer 6. Nevertheless, since Internet Explorer is still the dominant browser, your solution isn't really practical. For what it's worth, I agree that fixed positioning is the way to accomplish what he's trying to accomplish in CSS 2 compliant browsers. It's unfortunately, but it's true. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188447 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model
Correction on this. I had a mental lapse between fixed and absolute positioning. CSS level 1 did not support fixed positioning at all. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Ben Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 2:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model What I meant by depending is that while such behaviour isn't specified in the spec, it is available in a fair few browsers in their quirks mode, but not in their standards mode. I think we're referring to two separate behaviors here. I was referring to sizing relative to available area as opposed to the containing block. Specifically, I was referring to its absence in standards mode, which I think is unfortunate. Well, I was trying to show that he was trying to put in a screw with a hammer rather than a screwdriver: it might kinda work, but it's not the right way, seeing as his problem was really a positioning one rather than I see what you're saying. However, I interpreted Isaac's original post as blowing off steam. In other words, I think he was lamenting the fact that CSS (at any level) does not support sizing relative to the available content area. Isaac, let me know if I misunderstood this. My question to you is, all other things being equal, do you really think that fixed positioning is a better way to solve this problem than relative sizing? One of the great things about HTML is that elements are allowed to flow. Users can change their default font and size, disable images, etc., and the page just adapts. Fixed positioning in general -- and your proposed solution specifically -- break this very badly. As a developer, I now have to know the exact pixel size of every element on the page and position objects off the top/bottom/left/right accordingly. Worse, I have to know these at design time as opposed to runtime. I just don't understand how this can be considered an improvement? But what he's trying to do *is* positioning, not sizing. Correction, what he's trying to accomplish is sizing relative to the available content area. The only way to approximate it in CSS 2 compliant browsers is to use fixed positioning. To my knowledge, there is no way to accomplish it in CSS 1 compliant browsers (sans-html formatting). I know he's talking about sizing, but what I'm trying to get across is that *his* particular problem isn't with sizing, and not with the differences between the MS and W3C box models. And IE doesn't support fixed positioning, nor has it ever done so. Uhg. Yes it does. Internet Explorer 6 supports CSS level 1 fixed positioning. Earlier versions of IE also supported it, albeit with the broken box model. Try the code below in IE6, Firefox, Opera, and any other browsers you can lay your hands on if you don't believe me. You really need to qualify some of your statements. The code you posted uses CSS level 2 fixed positioning. Specifically, the bottom and right properties are part of the level 2 spec. Internet Explorer does not support CSS level 2: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en- us/dnie60/html /cssenhancements.asp Building on top of the functionality of previous versions, Internet Explorer 6 now provides full support for CSS Level 1 And there only doing that because another strong contender appeared on the scene in their primary market. They *had* let it die, but now they're resurrecting it. Really? I've never seen anything official from Microsoft that said they were discontinuing development of Internet Explorer. All the official stuff I've seen simply said that they were not going to continue to develop Internet Explorer as a separate product. That said, the Internet Explorer team has apparently been reformed as an entity separate from the Windows team. There is some talk about an Internet Explorer 7 separate from the operating system. However, I haven't seen this announced officially. If it's true, I would guess that this is in response to competition from Firefox et al. And my argument is that he's attacking the problem with the wrong tools. Positioning is what he want. It's a pity IE just doesn't support it completely enough. Fair enough, and I agree that it's a shame that Internet Explorer 6 does not support CSS level 2. The standard is old enough that support for it could have made it into Internet Explorer 6. Nevertheless, since Internet Explorer is still the dominant browser, your solution isn't really practical. For what it's worth, I agree that fixed positioning is the way to accomplish what he's trying to accomplish in CSS 2 compliant browsers. It's unfortunately, but it's true. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057
RE: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model
Yup, it is, but that's not a problem with the box model--that is, the way the width, height, padding areas, borders, and margins interact with one another--but how the spec says heights should be calculated. Here's where we disagree. I think that sizing in the box model is fundamentally flawed when using relative positioning. Specifically, I would have preferred to see relatively positioned elements sized based on the space available -- as is the case with HTML. That said, I'm sure I'm wrong because the rest of the world seems to disagree with me -- except for maybe Isaac. :) Yup, because the problem he wants solved doesn't actually involve sizing, but positioning within the viewport. I guess this depends on how you look at it. If you're switching from HTML to CSS, CSS seems backwards and overly complex. If you're switching from making desktop apps to HTML, I'm sure HTML seems awkward. Nah, this doesn't break it, though it might give the impression that it does through my use of pixels. I only did this because the HTML he originally posted up did that. Really? I'd be interested in seeing an example. It's my understanding that, if an element has a size of auto, the height is not calculated until after the element is rendered. This means that elements within that element cannot be sized relative to the parent. So, I don't understand how you'd accomplish this in CSS. But his problem is perfect for this kind of fixed positioning. I just wish you could specify sizes like 2em+3px, which would help with accessability in a lot of cases. He wants to place things up at the top and bottom of the viewport, with content in two iframes, so positioning everything off the borders of the viewport doesn't actually cause any problems here. The contents of the view ports can still expand, and the content iframe resizes with the containing iframe. The problem, as I see it, occurs with the second row. What happens to the content in that row if the font size were doubled by the client browser? Better yet, what happens if the content is dynamic and has to wrap? You can clip it or scroll it using CSS. However, I don't believe there's a way to dynamically size it so that the row with iframes will always start immediately below the second row, regardless of how large the second row is. I'd love to be proven wrong. Yup, that being the viewport, making it a positioning issue. In this case, the available content area happens to be the view port. However, in most cases, I don't believe it is. For instance, I'm working on a design right now in which I'm floating the logo to the left and would like to center the company name between the logo and the right hand side of the page. Fixed positioning does not solve the problem in this context. Nope, it supports relative (albeit in a slightly broken, but hackable manner) and absolute positioning. Yeah, I misspoke on this. I reversed fixed and absolute as I was looking through your code. Who says that they have to make an official statement to make something true? All they have to do is relegate the IE team to making patches for security holes in MSHTML. Since IE5.5 and particularly IE6 came out, MS have been steadily cutting back the size of the IE dev team back from several hundred developers back to just a few tens of them. When gecko browsers started to makes inroads into their share, the number of developers started to increase quite a bit. And I'm only going of what MS devs have told me happened. I don't personally know anyone at Microsoft, so I'll defer on this. I'm basing everything off of official announcements and random Microsoft blogs. With the IE7 JS hacks it is: http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/ I had ignored the IE7 project because I thought it was a collection of hacks. Looking at it now, I see that it's using JavaScript to parse and render the CSS. I'm not as adverse to this as some of the hacks I've seen out there. I might have to look into it more. I don't think it's unfortunate really, I think that's just what the solution calls for, and that's part of what fixed positioning is there for in the first place. Well, assuming that you can accomplish the same effect as your earlier code without the use of exact pixel sizes, content clipping or scrolling, then I'd have to agree. Short of this, I think it's a bloody shame. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188477 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model
Leaving out the URL invokes quirks mode in most modern browsers. That's OK as long as it solves your problem. However, it doesn't solve the problem in standards mode because the standard simply doesn't support relative sizing based on the available content area. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Ryan Emerle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 4:34 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model I had a similar problem with height not working when specified at 100%. Turned out being the dtd definition. If you specify a dtd, without the height attribute, it won't work. Try simply excluding the dtd definition in your doctype def: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN Not: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd; HTH -Ryan On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:26:33 -0500, S. Isaac Dealey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so after all this time, there's still no standard that allows an adequate means of specifying something as simple as height 100% ... because according to the w3c, 100% of the height of an airplane discludes its canopy and landing gear and 100% of its length discludes its propeller and tail-fins... Before you say it -- yes, I've assigned margin: 0; padding: 0; height: 100% on both the html and the body elements in the style sheet... And in this code there is no way to make the content of the 3rd table row display without specifying a height for the row -- there is also no way to tell the browser that the row should be 100% of the _remaining_ height of the table after accounting for the space taken by the other 3 rows (above and below). So my choices are 80% (so the bottom of the table may or may not match the bottom of the window) or a fixed height (so the bottom of the table definately doesn't match the bottom of the dinwo most of the time). Any attempt to set the height of the 3rd row to 100% results in the table exceeding the height of the browser window. And why use tables at all you ask? Because there's no way to specify the iframes float left and right and fill 100% of the width of the window without one of them being shoved down underneath the other if the browser window is shrunk horizontally. Oh well... frameset it is I guess... Doesn't make me any happier with the box model. div style=height:100%; padding-bottom: 100px; table border=1 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=3 style=width:100%; height:100%; tr style=height:40px;td id=doc_title colspan=2 style=height:40px;onTap Framework/td/tr tr style=height:20px;td id=doc_ladder colspan=2 style=height:20px;Home/td/tr tr td colspan=2 style=height:80%; div style=height:100%; table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 style=height:100%; width: 100%; tr td style=padding: 2px; iframe name=nav_frame_menu frameborder=1 height=100% width=250/iframe /td td style=padding: 2px; width:100%; iframe name=nav_frame_content frameborder=1 height=100% width=100%/iframe /td /tr /table /div /td /tr tr style=height:60px;td colspan=2 valign=top style=height:60px; form name=paypal_donation_form action=https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr; method=post style=margin: 0px; input type=hidden name=cmd value=_xclick / input type=hidden name=business value=[EMAIL PROTECTED] / input type=hidden name=item_name value=onTap Framework / input type=hidden name=item_number value=ontapframework / input type=hidden name=no_note value=1 / input type=hidden name=currency_code value=USD / input type=hidden name=tax value=0 / input name=submit type=image border=0 style=border:0px; background-color:transparent; float: left; alt=Make a donation. src=http://mx/otp/test/_components/docs/_images/donations.gif; / /form A target=_blank href=http://affiliates.macromedia.com/b.asp?id=2549p=go/dr_home_af f1 img
RE: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model
?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html /cssenhancements.asp The real problem is that CSS needs a way of saying if my parent has any free space, give that to me. auto means give me just what I mean, 100% means make me fill my parent, but what we need is a remaining height, so if you specified: Heh, I thought that's what this entire thread has been about. I'm not sure where the IE vs. W3C box model came from, but the whole point I've been trying to make is that you can't specify the size of a block relative to the available content area. div style=height:100px div style=height:remainingBlah!/div div style=height:remainingBlah!/div /div I don't think it should be implemented this way because I want to be able to specify percentages of the remaining content area. If, in HTML, I specified width=50% on a table, it would take 50% of the remaining area or what I've been referring to as the available content area. The height would be distributed evenly across both. A way to specify the proportion of the remaining space would be nice too. BTW, this addition to CSS would solve Isaac's problem as regards sizing. ...which has been our point all along. You see, it's not that the spec is bad, just lacking. Well, I think we've at least ended up at the same spot. Personally, I think it was a huge oversight of the designers of the CSS2 spec. They failed in a very fundamental way to provide backwards compatibility with HTML. Perhaps backwards compatibility is the wrong term. They failed to fully duplicate the layout functionality of HTML and failed to provide adequate alternatives. For proof of this, I'll cite the many sites all dedicated to helping people build 2 and 3 column layouts with and without headers and footers. They use hacks like those mentioned above (transparent backgrounds, tiled background images, etc.) to accomplish something that was trivial in HTML. I posted links to several such sites earlier in this thread. If you're using ems, it's height will expand. However, and this applies to any kind of layout system that doesn't allow you to specify constraints based on the interrelationship between adjacent elements, if the line wraps, you're screwed. Ems will take care of size increases for the most part, but not, unfortunately, linewrapping. I don't usually use ems. I'll have to look into them a bit more. CSS is the way of the future, so I have to give up old habits, no matter how much I may prefer them over newer alternatives. So, if ems solve part of my problem, then I should definitely be using them. Nope, with positioning, you can't do that. There's no way to specify the constraints. OK, I'm glad I wasn't missing something there. I would have had to throw myself out a window if I'd missed this all this time. In this case, the available content area happens to be the view port. No, the viewport's just that: a view of the page. The only aspect of the viewport that ought to impact on the page is its width. The available content area is the page itself. I think our definitions were a little off. When I refer to available content area I'm referring to what you called the remaining area. If there's a word for this, I'd love to know because a standard terminology would really save us a lot of trouble. :) Anyway, the point of my comment was that your fixed positioning example works because the view port happens to equal the available content area. I gave an example of where this would not be the case. In that example, fixed positioning would not work because fixed positioning is, by definition, tied to the viewport. No, but there's ways of doing it. If you show me what you're trying to do, I could probably come up with a solution. I posted a simple table example, but don't feel obliged to come up with a CSS2 equivalent. I was just trying to better explain what I see as the fundamental issue here. Almost. It does everything except expand the height of the ladder (a breadcrumb trail?) if it breaks onto two or more lines. Other than that, it works perfectly. That pretty much sums up my experience with CSS. It works for all but one piece of the design. I still use tables in just about every single design because there's always that one thing that doesn't work right. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188491 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: time to cluster, I thinkL
In addition, a default install of SQL Server, for instance, will pre-allocate just about all system resources to the SQL Server instance or balance them out among multiple instances. This provides performance benefits over a model in which resources have to be allocated on the fly. From my experience, it actually takes quite a bit of work to convince SQL Server that it's not the only application on the server. In particular, watching SQL Server duke it out with the Sun JVM over memory is not a pretty sight. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 11:42 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: time to cluster, I thinkL Burns, John D wrote: Continuing down this line of questioning, what kind of numbers are you all experiencing when you're having to split to separate servers, go to multiple machines, etc? It isn't so much about having to split, but wanting to split. I don't want to run a database server on the server that also runs the application server and the webserver: - I like the security of an extra layer in front of my database - I want issues to be isolated in one tier, instead of being on a machine that does many things that influence eachother - I want to properly dimension hardware for each tier, without having to oversize it because it has to be good at everything Jochem ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188269 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model
Well, your problems are manyfold. Firstly, you're depending on behaviour that was never mandated in the specs, that being that a height of 100% means 100% of the available window area or available area. I don't think he's depending on this behavior. He's lamenting the fact that CSS doesn't support a mechanism for sizing elements relative to the available space. In HTML all heights and widths are based on the available area, not the size of the containing block. I also think he's hoping that someone will prove him wrong. :) The specs, for better or for worse, don't recogise this usage because it's meaningless in the broader context of positioning, which is that positioning is done on the basis of the total rendering area of the page, not just the current viewport. I don't think it's positioning we're discussing here: it's sizing. If all your elements are positioned relative to one another, there's no reason you can't support sizing based on available heights and widths (as was the case in HTML). Once you add absolute positioning to the mix, it gets a bit trickier. You'll get this behaviour *without* the doctype because that's how it was treated by browsers in the past. This is quirks mode, and there be funkiness. I think Isaac's aware of this. If IE wasn't so braindead, it'd support fixed positioning. In this case, you could position your elements wherever you liked relative to the four sides of the screen. This is possible in Firefox, but not in IE, because MS have slowly let IE die. Fixed positioning is possible in Internet Explorer. It is even possible in versions of Internet Explorer which pre-date the Mozilla project. Again, this is not about positioning, it's about sizing elements. Also, Microsoft has not let Internet Explorer die. They are going to tie Internet Explorer upgrades to new releases of the operating system. Personally, I wish they hadn't made this decision, but that's their currently announced intention. Your problem isn't with the spec--and definitely not with the box model, which doesn't even come up here--but with a lack of implementation of the spec. I think you've misunderstood the nature of the problem. It is most definitely an issue with the spec. Whether or not you consider it to be a fault of the spec (I do), is up for debate. Here's a few links on the subject: http://www.quirksmode.org/css/100percheight.html http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum83/200.htm However, none of the solutions mentioned in these articles completely solves Isaac's problem. In fact, Isaac only got as far as he did because he mixed html table tags with divs. Isaac, I've included some code below which seems to solve at least part of the problem I think you were running into. I've added height and widths to the html and body elements (I think you were already doing this). I've also added them to each element all the way down. The theory is that if you don't specify either height or width on one element, that element will default to auto. Auto translates to the size of the content. Since this can't be calculated until after the element is rendered, any element within it can't use relative sizes. However, I was unable to eliminate the vertical scroll bar. I'm not even quite sure where this is coming from. My guess is it's the window chrome. Perhaps you could set the height of the body tag onload with JavaScript? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd; html style=height: 100%; width: 100%; head title/title /head body style=height: 100%; width: 100%; margin: 0px; div style=height:100%; padding-bottom: 100px; table border=1 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=3 style=width:100%; height:100%; tr style=height:40px; width: 100%; td id=doc_title colspan=2 style=height:40px;onTap Framework/td /tr tr style=height:20px; width: 100%; td id=doc_ladder colspan=2 style=height:20px;Home/td /tr tr td colspan=2 style=height:80%; width: 100%; div style=height:100%; width:100%; table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 style=height:100%; width: 100%; tr td style=padding: 2px; height:100%; width: 250px; iframe name=nav_frame_menu frameborder=1 height=100% width=250/iframe /td td style=padding: 2px
RE: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model
Unfortunately it's easier for them that way -- and I suspect it precedes another round of large numbers of heavily IE only, non-standard features for use with the new XML in Longhorne. Doesn't Mozilla do something similar with XUL now tho? The big difference being that Mozilla isn't selling it as the only way to integrate with a monolithic operating system that dominates a good share of the business market. At least as far as I know -- I could be completely off-base, just been my impression from what I've read/heard. Yeah, there's been quite a bit of talk about why didn't Microsoft just use XUL. The answer from Microsoft seems to be that XUL/CSS wasn't designed for rendering desktop applications. I think it's roughly the same argument for MXML. Thanks for the links... First one I've read... second one... well... dunno... I'm just not ready to drop $90 for 6 months of access to a site I don't know if I'll use much. Sorry about that. I don't think I've subscribed to that site. In fact, I'm using an OS I just installed a month ago, so I'm pretty sure that site doesn't remember me. Oh well, it was just more of the same. Thanks Ben! Not bad at all! Much better than I was able to accomplish... No problem. After a recent argument...errr...ummm...debate on this list, I've decided to try and create a fully XHTML/CSS 2.1 compliant design. So, to make a long story short, I'm trying to solve some of the same problems. :) Incidentally -- in case you were curious -- the issue caused by the frameset is that the content frame populates a breadcrumbs trail in the header using DOM. In order to prevent the race condition in which the content loads before the header frame and the div containing the breadcrumbs is then not available to be populated, I'm loading the header first and then using DOM in the header frame to load the content frame to make sure the header div is available before the content frame loads. I'm not entirely happy with this scenario, but it's working -- and it lets the user resize the navigation frame, so it has its advantages. That sounds reasonable. I was using several more or less global variables stored in the navigator and window objects in one application (for which we had several different versions). I was using those to track whether or not a frame had loaded. Turns out, Windows XP Service Pack 2 didn't like that very much. Your way sounds much safer than mine. :) Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - New Atlanta http://www.newatlanta.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188345 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfeclipse + phpeclipse?
CFEclipse doesnt really do XML. XMLBuddy is a good plug-in for xml. CFEclipse is for cfml (cfc) files I tried XML Buddy. Feature wise, it is pretty nice. However, it seems to die on large UTF-16 encoded XML files. I'm not sure if it's the file size (over 1 meg) or the encoding, but these files crash Eclipse every time. So, now I'm back to VisualStudio 2003 for XML documents. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - New Atlanta http://www.newatlanta.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188143 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfeclipse + phpeclipse?
Well Eclipse can do most any kind of file so it is a single tool just like you want. I use it for Java, JSP, CFML, C++, XML, PHP, and SQL almost daily. But the CFEclipse part is just for cfml. There is a C# plug-in, a XML plug-in, a regular expression plugin, an xpath plugin (the list goes on and on and on). The reason eclipse is so cool is that the work is broken up between the different plugins - meaning no one plugin does everything. For some of us, I think the abstraction between Eclipse the SDK and Eclipse the IDE is not a very meaningful one in the practical sense. Certainly, we like the idea of an editor that can be extended with commercial and open source third party plug-ins. However, if we can't get the various plug-ins installed -- those we happen to consider necessary -- Eclipse is not very useful to us. I can't speak for Mike, but I've had a great deal of difficulty adding support for many of the languages and applications that I routinely use. Those languages include CFML, ASP, SQL, HTML, JavaScript/Jscript/ActionScript, XML, Java, and VBScript. Though I've found individual plug-ins for each, I have yet to get support for all of these languages installed and working simultaneously. By that I mean that every time I install Eclipse (about 10 attempts so far or three different computers), I download various plug-ins. Several of the plug-ins are recommended on the CFEclipse page. Invariably, one or two of the plug-ins causes issues, though it seems to be different plug-ins each time, which leads me to believe that the install order has something to do with it. I've started keeping local copies of various versions of each plug-in. I try to store them by whether or not they seem to play well with the other plug-ins I have installed. Still, I haven't quite achieved a stable, functional Eclipse. For reference, the plug-ins that I've tried recently include: - cfecplise - dbedit, dbexplorer, and jfacedb and quantum for database connectivity - espell for spell checking - eclipsetidy - csseditor for CSS - logwatcher - subclipse for Subversion - xmlbuddy and xmleditor for XML - jseditor for JavaScript - eclipsecolorer for classic ASP and various other languages Many of these plug-ins are still at a pre-version 1 release state. In fact, most Eclipse plug-ins in general seem to be pre-version 1. Others haven't been around for a very long time or were just recently ported Eclipse 3. So, maybe this is all to be expected. Nevertheless, finding a working combination of plug-ins for Eclipse can be a long tedious process for some of us. Anyway, I think Eclipse is a great idea, and I really -- really -- like the work going into CFEclipse. Unfortunately, I'm not able to use Eclipse for my daily tasks quite yet. But, if the rate of progress on just the CFEclipse plug-in is any sign, I have a hunch that this time next year, I'll have a radically different opinion. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188150 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfeclipse + phpeclipse?
These are both very good points. There are a few definitions in Eclipse that you have to come to grips with first. Once you understand them, you might still think it's kind of bizarre (I do), but understanding these will at least get you over the first couple of hurdles. Plug-ins are pretty easy to install (even if they can be troublesome to get working). However, as Lewis notes, you have to understand the basic Eclipse directory structure to install many of the plug-ins. Some of the plug-ins actually assume that you've installed Eclipse in a directory called eclipse. For example, assuming you have extracted Eclipse to a directory called eclipse, the path to your plug-ins directory will look something like this (on Windows): C:\eclipse\plugins\ Individual plug-ins will each have their own directory under the plug-ins directory. They are named using the tld.domain.project naming convention followed by an underscore and version number. So the 1.1.16 version of CFEclipse will be in a directory called: com.rohanclan.cfml_1.1.16 What I usually do is download the plug-in to a neutral place like my desktop. I then extract the plug-in to a sub-directory of the same name. You'll usually end up with one of three different directory structures: tld.domain.project_0.0.0\ plugins\tld.domain.project_0.0.0\ eclipse\plugins\tld.domain.project_0.0.0\ Identify which you have and then copy the files over accordingly. Meaning, if you have the first, copy the tld.domain.project_0.0.0 directory into the C:\eclipse\plugins\ directory. If you have the second, drag the plugins folder (and any others such as features or configuration), into the eclipse installation director, C:\eclipse\. If you have the latter, switch to the eclipse directory and do the same. I believe plug-ins can also be distributed in jar form (tld.domain.project_0.0.0.jar). I think you drop these files right in the plugins directory, but I'm not too sure about this. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Lewis Sellers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: cfeclipse + phpeclipse? I have installed the XML plugin - well at least I THOUGHT I had - but it's not available in the dialog box when you select WindowShow PerspectiveOther. When you DO select anything out of that menu, nothing moves. Certainly nothing like in the video. Perspectives and the way it handes file types is rather confusing to say the least. It's the most annoying/unintuitive part of the program for me. As for the plugins, if you're doing it manually, check to be sure you're unzipping them into the correct folders. The zips vary with what they assume is the relative folder structure. -- --Lewis Sellers (AKA min) Intrafoundation Software http://www.intrafoundation.com ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188151 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: cfeclipse + phpeclipse?
Intersting, I've never had problems getting them to work, but I do recall tinkering from time to time which I am sure is the problem. The CFEclipse project, and I know you are refering to Eclipse in general, wasn't started to make a full on IDE, but to add CFML Support to Eclipse. Understood, and I personally think CFEclipse is great at what it does. That said, I switch tasks constantly all day so I really need an all purpose text editor more than an IDE. Eclipse (with various sundry plug-ins) is about 85% of the way there for me. Believe it or not, one of my favorite features of HomeSite is the dual file explorer because it allows me to switch to a different task without losing my place in the file system. I just wish HomeSite would let me create n number of file manager instances. He3 was going to / is making a CFML IDE, but pehaps I'll bundle some up. Mark Drew and I were just talking about it, but I don't think it would be wise to burnded the CFEclipse project with bundling an IDE on top of everything else. I agree. I was just trying to give a little perspective from someone who really wants to use Eclipse/CFEclipse for daily chores but can't quite make the switch -- yet. Interesting... do you have a blog somewhere or can you post what troubles you have had either to the cfeclipse mailing list or me directly? I'd like to try to limit the issuse people are having with Eclipse in general as much as I can so people dont get too much of a bad taste :) That's greatly appreciated. I actually gave Eclipse a shot before CFEclipse existed but didn't make it nearly as far as I did once you guys started work on CFEclipse. Your work is greatly appreciated. I'll try to build a quick informal bare bones eclipse .dmg with the following support: CFML, JS, CSS, Basic XML (cant use xmlbuddy its commerical). I'll list the steps if you don't yet have a Mac ;) if you think that'll help. Don't go out of your way. I actually just started a new instance of Eclipse (because of this conversation). I downloaded the non-SDK version this time. I program very little Java, and it seem like the non-SDK version takes up much less RAM and runs faster (two other issues I have with Eclipse). I'll report back issues as I run into them. Open source guys are not marketing guys, so often the versions do not reflect the maturity of the project. Hell Apache was a 1.3 just a bit ago now they are at 2. Its often the marketing people who want to jack the version up to give a false sense of maturity I agree in general, but I think that it really depends on the plug-in. The ones I mention seem to run the gamut. Well cfeclipse is comming up on its 1 year birthday, and it can be use daily for sure there are a lot of people doing just that. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. In fact, I think CFEclipse goes a long way towards making Eclipse usable for me. I think the main hangup is getting it all setup correctly, which again, is not a cfeclipse duity - but the cfeclipse mailing list and the side projects that may be coming up might fix a lot of that I agree, and I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for trying it out Ben, if you give it another go, join the cfeclipse mailing list and we'll try to get you going. Will do. I'm already subscribed to many mailing lists. I get roughly 1000 (legitimate) messages a day. So, I try to be careful about which lists I join. As long as general (though related) Eclipse questions are tolerated, I think the cfeclipse list would be a good one to join. Thanks. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188158 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: ASPImage replacement (cfmx)
I'll second this one. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Scott Stroz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 9:01 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: ASPImage replacement (cfmx) Vheck out the Alagad Image Component http://www.alagad.com On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 08:39:50 -0500, Katz, Dov B (IT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm considering replacing (finally) my ASPImage COM component with a native java one for CFMX6.1 I use the following functionality Sharpen Scale Rotate Draw (text, paint rectangles, etc) Overlay (draw image X on top of image Y) JPEG encoding. Do do have any suggestions for me, and do you think they have any performance / memory implications over ASPImage (besides just pure java is safer than java-com-bridging) It would also be good if someone has a URL of a place where they show how to migrate CF code doing X in ASPIMAGE to do it with the new component. Thanks in advance -Dov NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender. Sender does not waive confidentiality or privilege, and use is prohibited. ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188052 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: OT - coding fonts
I don't know what the console font on a Mac looks like, but I find that Lucida Console is pretty easy on the eyes. I usually set it to between 12px and 14px (8pt to 10pt) on a 1280 x 1024 screen resolution. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Rob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 3:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT - coding fonts On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:25:43 -0500, Jim Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Damien McKenna [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 2:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: OT - coding fonts I use Andale Mono. I use whatever is standard on the tool... however I also enable ClearType font rendering for my LCDs in Windows XP. The difference is AMAZING. If I enable cleartype does it look like the default termail mac font? because thats what I want and thats what the quesiton was. -- ~The cfml plug-in for eclipse~ http://cfeclipse.tigris.org ~open source xslt IDE~ http://treebeard.sourceforge.net ~open source XML database~ http://ashpool.sourceforge.net ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - New Atlanta http://www.newatlanta.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:188079 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Mail Server Software
It is a lot of money, but not expensive. If you do the math an organization with 5000 users gets a fully redundant mail gateway solution for about $1.5 per mailbox per year, including hardware. SA, RBLs, OpenLDAP etc may be free, time is not, and I doubt anyone can build a system with similar capabilities for that money. That's significantly more expensive than what we'd end up paying to get redundant with our current solution, modusMail. Maybe modusMail pricing isn't as bad as I had thought. :) Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:187882 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model
so after all this time, there's still no standard that allows an adequate means of specifying something as simple as height 100% ... because according to the w3c, 100% of the height of an airplane discludes its canopy and landing gear and 100% of its length discludes its propeller and tail-fins... Tell me about it. There are several aspects of CSS that just make you scratch your head and wonder what the heck they were thinking. As an example, look at the trouble one has to go through to create a fluid, two column layout where the columns are of the same height (from Eric Meyer's blog): http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/03/sliding-faux-columns/ Original source: http://www.stopdesign.com/log/2004/09/03/liquid-bleach.html Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 Before you say it -- yes, I've assigned margin: 0; padding: 0; height: 100% on both the html and the body elements in the style sheet... And in this code there is no way to make the content of the 3rd table row display without specifying a height for the row -- there is also no way to tell the browser that the row should be 100% of the _remaining_ height of the table after accounting for the space taken by the other 3 rows (above and below). So my choices are 80% (so the bottom of the table may or may not match the bottom of the window) or a fixed height (so the bottom of the table definately doesn't match the bottom of the dinwo most of the time). Any attempt to set the height of the 3rd row to 100% results in the table exceeding the height of the browser window. And why use tables at all you ask? Because there's no way to specify the iframes float left and right and fill 100% of the width of the window without one of them being shoved down underneath the other if the browser window is shrunk horizontally. Oh well... frameset it is I guess... Doesn't make me any happier with the box model. div style=height:100%; padding-bottom: 100px; table border=1 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=3 style=width:100%; height:100%; tr style=height:40px;td id=doc_title colspan=2 style=height:40px;onTap Framework/td/tr tr style=height:20px;td id=doc_ladder colspan=2 style=height:20px;Home/td/tr tr td colspan=2 style=height:80%; div style=height:100%; table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 style=height:100%; width: 100%; tr td style=padding: 2px; iframe name=nav_frame_menu frameborder=1 height=100% width=250/iframe /td td style=padding: 2px; width:100%; iframe name=nav_frame_content frameborder=1 height=100% width=100%/iframe /td /tr /table /div /td /tr tr style=height:60px;td colspan=2 valign=top style=height:60px; form name=paypal_donation_form action=https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr; method=post style=margin: 0px; input type=hidden name=cmd value=_xclick / input type=hidden name=business value=[EMAIL PROTECTED] / input type=hidden name=item_name value=onTap Framework / input type=hidden name=item_number value=ontapframework / input type=hidden name=no_note value=1 / input type=hidden name=currency_code value=USD / input type=hidden name=tax value=0 / input name=submit type=image border=0 style=border:0px; background-color:transparent; float: left; alt=Make a donation. src=http://mx/otp/test/_components/docs/_images/donations.gif; / /form A target=_blank href=http://affiliates.macromedia.com/b.asp?id=2549p=go/dr_home_af f1 img align=right border=0 style=float: right; src=http://affiliates.macromedia.com/showb.asp?id=2549img=mx2004_4 68x60_b.gif //a /td/tr /table/div s. isaac dealey 954.927.5117 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=44477DE=1 http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=45569DE=1 http://www.fusiontap.com ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - RUWebby http://www.ruwebby.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:187890 Archives: http
RE: What's A Good Forum Program
If you're subscribed to DevNet, the one in the latest DRK seems pretty good. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Tom Forbes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:36 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: What's A Good Forum Program I would like your opinions and advice. I want to begin a forum, that is written if CF that will run on CF 5.0 (NO MX). I have only seen the Fusebox version, and it is a little pricey. I see lots of PHP packages that look great, but having trouble finding a CF version. Thanks! Tom ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - RUWebby http://www.ruwebby.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:187892 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Mail Server Software
Just to clarify, *upgrading* our current solution is cheaper. If we were to buy a fully redundant solution from scratch, modusMail would be significantly more expensive. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Ben Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 10:22 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Mail Server Software It is a lot of money, but not expensive. If you do the math an organization with 5000 users gets a fully redundant mail gateway solution for about $1.5 per mailbox per year, including hardware. SA, RBLs, OpenLDAP etc may be free, time is not, and I doubt anyone can build a system with similar capabilities for that money. That's significantly more expensive than what we'd end up paying to get redundant with our current solution, modusMail. Maybe modusMail pricing isn't as bad as I had thought. :) Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - New Atlanta http://www.newatlanta.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:187884 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model
My issues with it are that it's not very intuitive, and it's a lot of code (compared to the same layout using tables). On the other hand, it is fairly flexible and somewhat backwards compatible. All in all, however, I think CSS is a step backwards in this area. And despite what Eric Meyer thinks, I think these types of designs are fairly common. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Greg Stewart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:32 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: css - height 100% - i'd like to kill the crack-addicts who wrote the w3c box model Hmm it may seem like a lot of trouble, but using Doug's technique you can control the number of columns displayed and their order through CSS, just by changing the body ID, one template many possible layouts, I think it's worth the effort to look more closely at it. I use it all the time by merging it with CFML and an XML property file (to control widths on the fly). My 2 pennies. G On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:42:22 -0500, Ben Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so after all this time, there's still no standard that allows an adequate means of specifying something as simple as height 100% ... because according to the w3c, 100% of the height of an airplane discludes its canopy and landing gear and 100% of its length discludes its propeller and tail-fins... Tell me about it. There are several aspects of CSS that just make you scratch your head and wonder what the heck they were thinking. As an example, look at the trouble one has to go through to create a fluid, two column layout where the columns are of the same height (from Eric Meyer's blog): http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/03/sliding-faux-columns/ Original source: http://www.stopdesign.com/log/2004/09/03/liquid-bleach.html Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 Before you say it -- yes, I've assigned margin: 0; padding: 0; height: 100% on both the html and the body elements in the style sheet... And in this code there is no way to make the content of the 3rd table row display without specifying a height for the row -- there is also no way to tell the browser that the row should be 100% of the _remaining_ height of the table after accounting for the space taken by the other 3 rows (above and below). So my choices are 80% (so the bottom of the table may or may not match the bottom of the window) or a fixed height (so the bottom of the table definately doesn't match the bottom of the dinwo most of the time). Any attempt to set the height of the 3rd row to 100% results in the table exceeding the height of the browser window. And why use tables at all you ask? Because there's no way to specify the iframes float left and right and fill 100% of the width of the window without one of them being shoved down underneath the other if the browser window is shrunk horizontally. Oh well... frameset it is I guess... Doesn't make me any happier with the box model. div style=height:100%; padding-bottom: 100px; table border=1 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=3 style=width:100%; height:100%; tr style=height:40px;td id=doc_title colspan=2 style=height:40px;onTap Framework/td/tr tr style=height:20px;td id=doc_ladder colspan=2 style=height:20px;Home/td/tr tr td colspan=2 style=height:80%; div style=height:100%; table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 style=height:100%; width: 100%; tr td style=padding: 2px; iframe name=nav_frame_menu frameborder=1 height=100% width=250/iframe /td td style=padding: 2px; width:100%; iframe name=nav_frame_content frameborder=1 height=100% width=100%/iframe /td /tr /table /div /td /tr tr style=height:60px;td colspan=2 valign=top style=height:60px; form name=paypal_donation_form action=https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr; method=post style=margin: 0px; input type=hidden name=cmd value=_xclick / input type=hidden name=business value=[EMAIL PROTECTED] / input type=hidden name=item_name value=onTap Framework / input type=hidden name=item_number value=ontapframework
RE: Mail Server Software
Second that, Barracudas are nice. Typically a bit more expensive, but you do get the hardware with it. Perfect to drop in front of your existing mail architecture to offload spam and virus handling, all you need to do is configure the box, add MX records and block outside port 25 on your router. No changes to the existing systems required. It looks like they get really expensive for per-mailbox settings? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:187812 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Mail Server Software
IMHO, the nature of mail servers (handling and filtering the worst traffic the Internet can offer), dictates that doze is not the safest choice for high risk daemons like SMTP, POP or IMAP. Why? I ask because, way, way back, we used to run Sendmail on Slackware. That box was hacked into once. Additionally, it seemed like there was a new exploit out every other day for relaying mail off of Sendmail. We switched to VOPMail on Windows and never looked back. We've installed VOPMail on site at various customers and rarely need to service those machines. VOPMail was also much faster at performing routine mail tasks. And did I mention it had a fully functional GUI? Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - CFDynamics http://www.cfdynamics.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:187811 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Mail Server Software
We've been using modusMail by Vircom for a long time. We're pretty happy with it. The support is generally excellent. The spam filtering is extremely good. They also offer anti-virus via an embedded Norman engine. You can configure modusMail to store mailbox configuration in a database, which means you can create accounts and such with ColdFusion. However, database and server config can only be stored in the registry. The interface itself is pretty bad, but then most mail server GUIs are. The Web mail system just got a major upgrade. The interface is vastly improved, but it's a little buggy. We're waiting for a service pack before we upgrade Web mail. Our biggest problem is the pricing. Every time I turn around, the price doubles. We purchased the product (then called VOPMail) for under $600. I think that our current configuration would cost about $10,000. We tried to upgrade to a distributed/clustered configuration, but the price was out of our range. They also have a bad habit of putting new features in spin off products and letting the product under the old name languish. Of course, the new product costs quite a bit more than the old. At this point, we're pretty much locked in. We can't switch to another mail server unless it offers spam filtering at least equal to modusMail's. Otherwise, our customers would revolt. I have yet to find such a product. So, I'd recommend modusMail if you can afford it. The support is great. The spam filtering is nothing short of amazing. But their sales and pricing tactics are terrible. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Mark Leder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:07 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Mail Server Software Hi all, Just looking for opinions here. What do you recommend (and your customer like) for pre-packaged server based email messaging software (like iMail, Smartermail, sendMail etc). Could be either Win or Unix/Linux based. Would need to have webmail access and the ability for end users to connect via pop or imap using standard email clients (Outlook, OE, Eudora, etc). Also, are there third party server based products that you like and are effective for filtering spam? Thanks, Mark ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Silver Sponsor - RUWebby http://www.ruwebby.com Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:187660 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Mail Server Software
We are running the relay edition for our backup server. The performance is great. It's about as configurable as you can get. The price is great. The interface could use some work, but two out of three ain't bad. That said, I don't know if I'd run it as our primary. The thought of having to write a mail server from scratch with all the functionality in an application like modusMail is pretty daunting. Building a spam filtering engine alone is not insignificant, much less keeping up with it. Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 5:38 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Mail Server Software I'll just chime in and say that iMS has been perfect for our needs. That and some custom list code makes the HoF system sing. ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:187665 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: REPOST: CFHEADER/CFCONTENT over SSL on IIS with IE
Can anyone recommend a good tool (either standalone or plugin for IE) that will allow me to see the HTTP response headers for a particular request? That way I could at least compare the headers generated for a regular file download and then tweak my CFHEADER statement(s) to match. Thanks a bunch. Try Fiddler. http://www.fiddlertool.com Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:187346 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: SOT moving to FireFox
IE incorrectly implements the CSS box model, while FF (and other browsers) gets it right. Specifically, IE assumes the width you specify is for the actual content area of the elements box, while the CSS spec says that the width you specify is for the entire box (including padding, border, and margin). You've got that backwards. In CSS, the width does not include padding, border, and margin. In older versions of Internet Explorer, the padding and border were included in the width. So if you've got 5px of margin, a 1px border, and 4px of padding, your elements will be 10px wider than they should be. Or, if you're looking at it from the IE side, rather than the standards side, a standards compliant browser will show your boxes 10px smaller than you're used to. I believe this was all true pre version 6. It's also true if you're using quirks mode (see doctype switching). For more information: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html /cssenhancements.asp Ben Rogers http://www.c4.net v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 ~| Special thanks to the CF Community Suite Gold Sponsor - CFHosting.net http://www.cfhosting.net Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:187353 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: SOT moving to FireFox
If you force IE 6 into quirks mode, you still have to hack the box
model--in quirks mode you'll just be lumping IE 6 in with the hack. The
simple method of doing this is:
Quirks mode allows developers to maintain backwards compatibility and avoid
all those really ugly hacks you included in your message. The problem with
the hacks is that they all rely on implementation bugs. If this were object
oriented programming, the phrase would be program to the interface, not the
implementation.
You could also use conditional comments to feed any version of IE
selectors, properties, and values as necessary:
I agree with the use of conditional comments as override mechanism for the
reasons you mention. It's important to note the difference between this and
the other hacks you described: this is a documented feature. As such, you
can rely on it. It's also semantically clear.
Standards mode for IE 6 is not too buggy for production. I'll agree it's
not even close to perfect, but it is a step in the right direction and a
far cry better than IE 5.x's poor CSS support.
My interpretation of what Micha was saying is that trying to use standards
mode (as opposed to quirks mode), brings out the bugs and odd behavior in
older browsers. This leads to more development time and ugly hacks like the
ones you mentioned. Of course, I may have misunderstood Micha. :)
Ben Rogers
http://www.c4.net
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057
!--[if IE 5]
link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=css/ie-5.x.css /
![endif]--
Which would contain:
#myBox {
width: 222px;
}
Using conditional comments allows you to keep all of your IE specific
CSS in one stylesheet, helps to avoid using hacks in your main
stylesheet, and improves the shelf life of the document.
Standards mode for IE 6 is not too buggy for production. I'll agree it's
not even close to perfect, but it is a step in the right direction and a
far cry better than IE 5.x's poor CSS support.
--
Best regards,
Michael Wilson
~|
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