[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: [snip] There is some evidence that American concentration camps are already built (and note I said evidence, I did not say proof), then those who man the gas valves will most likely not be the TM crowd. On the other hand, none of us know what we might do when faced with either following a command or facing torture and death. a Good Lord. This is getting beyond bizarre. FWIW, there is indeed quite solid evidence that there are plans to build such camps; the Army Corps of Engineers recently awarded a contract to Halliburton to build them, purportedly to handle a massive influx of refugees from disaster of some kind. And there's good reason to be concerned about the contemplated uses of the camps. What's beyond bizarre, however, is the notion that the camps would be equipped with gas chambers for mass extermination of the inhabitants.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: [snip] There is some evidence that American concentration camps are already built (and note I said evidence, I did not say proof), then those who man the gas valves will most likely not be the TM crowd. On the other hand, none of us know what we might do when faced with either following a command or facing torture and death. a Good Lord. This is getting beyond bizarre. FWIW, there is indeed quite solid evidence that there are plans to build such camps; the Army Corps of Engineers recently awarded a contract to Halliburton to build them, purportedly to handle a massive influx of refugees from disaster of some kind. And there's good reason to be concerned about the contemplated uses of the camps. What's beyond bizarre, however, is the notion that the camps would be equipped with gas chambers for mass extermination of the inhabitants. Yeah. That part is what I was referring to. Jumping to that conclusion is excessively alarmist in my view. HOWEVER, this is what I've seen on the subject: Homeland Security Contracts for Vast New Detention Camps News Analysis/Commentary, Peter Dale Scott, New America Media, Feb 08, 2006 http://tinyurl.com/9aqnn Editor's Note: A little-known $385 million contract for Halliburton subsidiary KBR to build detention facilities for an emergency influx of immigrants is another step down the Bush administration's road toward martial law, the writer says. BERKELEY, Calif.--A Halliburton subsidiary has just received a $385 million contract from the Department of Homeland Security to provide temporary detention and processing capabilities. The contract -- announced Jan. 24 by the engineering and construction firm KBR -- calls for preparing for an emergency influx of immigrants, or to support the rapid development of new programs in the event of other emergencies, such as a natural disaster. The release offered no details about where Halliburton was to build these facilities, or when. To date, some newspapers have worried that open-ended provisions in the contract could lead to cost overruns, such as have occurred with KBR in Iraq. A Homeland Security spokesperson has responded that this is a contingency contract and that conceivably no centers might be built. But almost no paper so far has discussed the possibility that detention centers could be used to detain American citizens if the Bush administration were to declare martial law. For those who follow covert government operations abroad and at home, the contract evoked ominous memories of Oliver North's controversial Rex-84 readiness exercise in 1984. This called for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to round up and detain 400,000 imaginary refugees, in the context of uncontrolled population movements over the Mexican border into the United States. North's activities raised civil liberties concerns in both Congress and the Justice Department. The concerns persist. Almost certainly this is preparation for a roundup after the next 9/11 for Mid-Easterners, Muslims and possibly dissenters, says Daniel Ellsberg, a former military analyst who in 1971 released the Pentagon Papers, the U.S. military's account of its activities in Vietnam. They've already done this on a smaller scale, with the 'special registration' detentions of immigrant men from Muslim countries, and with Guantanamo. Plans for detention facilities or camps have a long history, going back to fears in the 1970s of a national uprising by black militants. As Alonzo Chardy reported in the Miami Herald on July 5, 1987, an executive order for continuity of government (COG) had been drafted in 1982 by FEMA head Louis Giuffrida. The order called for suspension of the Constitution and declaration of martial law. The martial law portions of the plan were outlined in a memo by Giuffrida's deputy, John Brinkerhoff. In 1985, President Reagan signed National Security Decision Directive 188, one of a series of directives that authorized continued planning for COG by a private parallel government. Two books, James Mann's Rise of the Vulcans and James Bamford's A Pretext for War, have revealed that in the 1980s this parallel structure, operating outside normal government channels, included the then-head of G. D. Searle and Co., Donald Rumsfeld, and then-Congressman from Wyoming Dick Cheney. After 9/11, new martial law plans began to surface similar to those of FEMA in the 1980s. In January 2002 the Pentagon submitted a proposal for deploying troops on American streets. One month later John Brinkerhoff, the author of the 1982 FEMA memo, published an article arguing for the legality of using U.S. troops for purposes of domestic security. Then in April 2002, Defense Dept. officials implemented a
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: [snip] There is some evidence that American concentration camps are already built (and note I said evidence, I did not say proof), then those who man the gas valves will most likely not be the TM crowd. On the other hand, none of us know what we might do when faced with either following a command or facing torture and death. a Good Lord. This is getting beyond bizarre. FWIW, there is indeed quite solid evidence that there are plans to build such camps; the Army Corps of Engineers recently awarded a contract to Halliburton to build them, purportedly to handle a massive influx of refugees from disaster of some kind. And there's good reason to be concerned about the contemplated uses of the camps. What's beyond bizarre, however, is the notion that the camps would be equipped with gas chambers for mass extermination of the inhabitants. Yeah. That part is what I was referring to. Jumping to that conclusion is excessively alarmist in my view. HOWEVER, this is what I've seen on the subject: Yes, this is what I was referring to. I read it was the Army Corps of Engineers that had actually awarded the contract, but I'm not sure it makes much difference. Thanks for posting it. I do think it's very important to keep tabs on stuff like this; but on the other hand, we need to realize that contingency planning doesn't *necessarily* mean the administration expects to implemet the plan. It would be irresponsible *not* to have martial law and continuity-of-government plans in place if and when they're needed. What we should be watching is the definition of if and when. Homeland Security Contracts for Vast New Detention Camps News Analysis/Commentary, Peter Dale Scott, New America Media, Feb 08, 2006 http://tinyurl.com/9aqnn Editor's Note: A little-known $385 million contract for Halliburton subsidiary KBR to build detention facilities for an emergency influx of immigrants is another step down the Bush administration's road toward martial law, the writer says.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 15, 2007, at 9:54 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Hi Vaj, what you are doing is cherry picking your 'evidence', to support your opinion. Do you know for certain that all of the Masters and teachers of what you call numerous enlightenment traditions, all quite beautiful when passed on authentically and in undiluted fashion, are free of the same behaviors that you accuse Maharishi of? Integrity of a teacher is important to me, that's all. As long as you do not have to practise intgerity yourself.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Off, When you dismiss Angela's mind, your reputation just slips another notch -- if that's possible -- in the estimations of most here. Her posts are dizzy deep, awe-thentic, and openly the works of a lover of words, wisps, and wonders. With her level of expertise, no one here is going to be able to corral her with jibes as goofmucky and simplistic, as your one d, kiddie-lect can muster. Not that she can't be wrong, not that you couldn't be the first here to see such, but it is certain that everyone here knows that the likes of you are not going to know what's behind the high walls she's scaled -- those are precincts you might never grok, but are doomed, it seems, to shoot the equivalent of paint balls at -- no real impact but there's you being smug about each laughable lashing-out -- an Off-put(ing) mess of garish coloring -- your bottom line troll profit. I see you as some hulking Bubba bragging about a splotch that merely a gentle rain can remove. Angela, the chink scanners are chutzpa chumps. It takes a while and much too much attention-given to see them for what they are. You're a tough hombre, so, no need for me at your six, but I like jumping on Off cuz he's so easily squished -- like one ear on a Mickey Mouse balloon -- and then he looks so funny when his other parts correspondingly expand. Off, start breathing helium and float will ya? It'd be nice to see Mickey One Big Ear floating around above us, and your rodent thoughts would then be all the more comical. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Again, you are missing my point. As I said, I have drawn some comparisons. I have drawn no conclusions, and I have called no one either good or evil. Angela, welcome to the board. You comparison is very dumb however. Every child and halfwit has, in the past, made this comparison in their head as a musing, and quickly realised it does not have legs. You think it is an interesting comparison. I am afraid it is not. It is weak, ill-thought-out, poorly concieved, and ultimately redundant, therefore it is a tedious waste of space, and that is what people are objecting to. OffWorld feste37 feste37@ wrote: Thanks for confirming my point. I ask you a blunt question that draws out the implications of what you are saying, and you are at a loss as to how to respond. Precisely. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 feste37@ wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Off, snip Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, you are missing my point. As I said, I have drawn some comparisons. I have drawn no conclusions, and I have called no one either good or evil. Angela, welcome to the board. You comparison is very dumb however. Every child and halfwit has, in the past, made this comparison in their head as a musing, and quickly realised it does not have legs. You think it is an interesting comparison. I am afraid it is not. It is weak, ill-thought-out, poorly concieved, and ultimately redundant, therefore it is a tedious waste of space, and that is what people are objecting to. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hannah Arendt's books The Origin of Totalitarianism was a very powerful awakening to me Yay(as in jai), Hanna. Half a Davis summer reading her.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To the question who are they and how do I know it: Briefly the way Hitler got made was this: Two guys show up in Munich, both with a long string of aliases and both of them from abroad. Nobody knows where they got their money, historians have looked and haven't been able to figure it out. One of these two guys was hanging out with an agent of the Pope in New York City prior to showing up in Germany. I'm afraid you're going to have to do better than this two guys show up in munich line. What were their names, where did they live, any photos? Most importanntly how come I have read every book about WW2 I could find and have never heard this. References please! or I will assume it is some elders of Zion type of conspiracy theory bullshit trying to exonerate one of the worst human beings ever.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dedicated to Nablososs Jai Guru Dev Love, Sri Sri Vaj Illuminati Headquarters Brocken Mountain, Germany I heard that from Maharishi myself, in Washington DC in 1983, when a reporter asked him what he thought of Hitler. He said, that Hitler was actually a good strong leader who unified Germany, it's just too bad that he did so much indiscriminate killing. Lies and fantasies, classic Vaj ! I attended every single pressconference in DC '83 and never heard this. But of course you are not able to validate anything. Just rumours as usual. You are a lier with 0 dignity. The nazi fellows you mix this story into were the WYMS. Completely crazy fellows all of whom had fathers or grandfathers with highrank nazi background. Their leader was a Count. They did crazy stuff until even Maharishi had enough and let them go. As with many other strange people within the Movement in the '60s and '70s Maharishi took them under his wings, gave them more responsebilities (in the case of WYMS's security and responsible for aircrafts) and in this way gave them opportunity for growth instead of destruction. Classic Maharishi.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the guys sent to find a person in Germany who would become a suitable dictator said as he was allegedly dying in a hospital in Shanghai that the people who run the world are in Tibet or were educated there. But he was a shady character capable of saying anything. One of Hitler's best officers was a straight up kind of guy, and he said, that the evil Being behind Hitler does not live on this planet. But these are not facts. These are things people said without providing a shred of evidence. a off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. And who would that be? OffWorld Benjamin Creme confirms this. There is such a thing as the anti-christ, but there is a great misapprehension about what the anti-christ is. Fundamentally, the anti-christ is the First or Will aspect of God, in its destructive form. It is that which destroys in order to prepare the way for the building aspect, which is the Christ aspect. It is that which breaks down and destroys the old to prepare the new forms for the incoming energy, the building energy, so that the Christ aspect can manifest. That is what is happening now. This anti-christ force has worked out through the war from 1914-1945. (From the Hierarchical point of view that was one war.) That war was precipitated on to the physical plane from the astral planes where it had been going on, since Atlantean times, between the Forces of Light and the Forces of Darkness; the evolutionary and the involutionary forces; the Hierarchy and the materialistic forces of this planet. The war between them in Atlantis caused the Hierarchy (Who before then had worked openly, outwardly in the world as the priest-kings and god-like beings Who gave men the Atlantean civilisation) to become occult, esoteric, working only from the higher mental planes. By the defeat of the Axis powers in the war of 1939-1945, the Forces of Evil of the planet (which is the evil of all mankind, not simply of the Axis powers) were defeated. Certain leaders in Nazi Germany, Japan, and to a much lesser extent in Italy, focused in themselves the energy which we call the anti-christ; but it is an energy, it is not a being, not an individual. It is preparing the way. It is the destructive force of God Himself, which prepares the way for the Christ. Where the involutionary force overflows on to the evolutionary arc (on which we are), it appears to us as evil. It has its role, in upholding the matter aspect of the planet, but too gross a materiality prevents mankind from advancing along the evolutionary path. The Forces of Evil on the planet have been defeated. They are not destroyed, but they are defeated. There is a stanza in the Great Invocation which says: 'And may it seal the door where evil dwells'. This refers to the sealing energies (which we transmitted earlier in the meeting). Their job is to lock away, to seal those forces to their own domain, to uphold the matter aspect, by lifting humanity above the level where they can be influenced, so that we can spiritualise matter, which is what we are really about. http://www.shareintl.org
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh yogis spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Research has shown again and again that ordinary folks are very willing to hurt others with electric shock in laboratory settings. Experience has shown again and again that folks do not interfere when they see someone hurt someone else. Add to that absolute devotion to a guru, the brainwashing of minds made susceptible through meditation (the beliefs about not being the doer etc), egos willing to do anything to prove they're enlightened, group isolation, belief in establishing heaven on earth, and doing God's will, and you've got a recipe for what happened in Germany. Call it psychosis or what you will, it happened on a very large scale in Germany. I don't think Germans are any more psychotic than anyone else. We are all subject to social engineering when you get us young enough. a jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Atrocities are very possible when you believe that a) you are not the doer, b) it's all an illusion anyway, c) the atrocities are committed as a means to heaven on earth for a thousand years, and d) death is not real. a I think in order to commit attrocities, there has to be a fundamental lack of empathy for our fellow human beings, and I've heard that called sociopathy. Whatever else the sociopath uses as justification for hurting and killing others is just rationalizing this basic lack of empathy for others. It doesn't follow at all thnat if we are experiencing a), b) and d) above, that we are therefore capable of comitting attrocities. As for c), that sounds psychotic. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
I'm not exonerating anyone, nor am I blaming anyone. I assume that when you say that you've read everything you could find on WWII, you mean what you could find in English. I read German, French, and Russian and can get through Dutch, Italian, Spanish and Danish given time and a dictionary. I went to high school in three different countries and learned early that the history that is taught in the U.S. is not the same history that is taught in, say, France. As for conspiracy theory bullshit, an objective researcher reads that also and with as critical an eye as she reads everything else. In fact, the minute a culture makes something taboo, she definitely takes a closer look. As for references, most of what I've got is in German and in French. I'll provide those references if you read those languages. Now, about the two guys: one of them is Moses Pinkeles (probably a Jew), a.k.a. Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln, a.k.a. Thimotheus Lincoln, a.k.a. Lama Djordi Den, a.k.a. Abbot Chao Kung. The agent of the pope he hung out with in New York in 1915 (two years after the creation of the Federal Reserve (which, by published admission of some of its members, was a conspiracy) was Franz von Papen. He was a Papal Chamberlain and best bud of Eugenio Pacelli, Papal Nuncio in Germany, the man who later becomes Pius XII. Moses (a.k.a. Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln, a.k.a. Thimotheus Lincoln, a.k.a. Lama Djordi Den, a.k.a. Abbot Chao Kung) later works directly under Himmler, establishes a Buddhist monastery in Berlin and goes on several expeditions to Tibet for Hitler, the first of which is to deliver a radio to the Dalai Lama (not the current guy, but his predecessor) so that Adolf and the Lama can chat daily. Moses (a.k.a. Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln, a.k.a. Thimotheus Lincoln, a.k.a. Lama Djordi Den, a.k.a. Abbot Chao Kung) is a useful fellow, it appears. In addition to working behind the scenes to help put Hitler in charge of Germany, he also helps the Shah of Iran grab the throne (though the evidence is somewhat sketchy in this instance), but he engineers several revolutions in China, working for three different war lordsno fuzzy evidence this time, but clear as day. He always has enough money to do these things, (buying a newspaper for Hitler, for example, which became the official Nazi rag) but all efforts to trace the source(s) of this money, have remained fruitless. The other, equally mysterious and useful guy with unknown sources of money at his back and who blew into Munich with multiple names was Rudolf Glauer, a.k.a. Erwin Torre, a.k.a. the Baron Rudolf, Freiherr von Sebottendorf. Much of Rudy's life lies in darkness, but it seems that as a young man, he was initiated into a Masonic Order by a Jewish banker by the name of Termudi in Turkey, and, with Termudi's guidance, he made it to the level of Rosicrucian Grand Master. By the time he's going on forty and just before coming to Germany, he is adopted by another Rosicrucian, the German expatriate, Freiherr von Sebottendorf und von der Rose. If Rudy were to be useful in Germany, he definitely needed that von in front of his name. It was primarily Rudy and Moses who provided the occult philosophy to the Thule Society which became an important aspect of Nazism, though one ignored by most historians and by the War Crimes Trials after the war. Rudy and Moses also provided the antisemitism, pervasively current in most of Europe and Russia, and which, from the beginning was designed to create a single enemy for the masses to focus on. It is important to understand that in the Thule Society, the society Rudy started with Moses at his back, especially at its upper levels, the rule was what Goering later said quite openly, Whos a Jew and who isnt is my decision. And here's a little icing on the cake of mystery which may or may not have anything to do with anything: Rudy and Moses apparently faked their own deaths. Rudy was a seeming suicide, but the body that was fished out of the Bosporus River turned out on later and on closer examination not to be his. And Moses, as the Abbot Chao Kung, allegedly died in a hospital in Shanghai, but when the Americans dug up his grave after the war, they found his coffin to be empty. a hugheshugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To the question who are they and how do I know it: Briefly the way Hitler got made was this: Two guys show up in Munich, both with a long string of aliases and both of them from abroad. Nobody knows where they got their money, historians have looked and haven't been able to figure it out. One of these two guys was hanging out with an agent of the Pope in New York City prior to showing up in Germany. I'm afraid you're going to have to do better than this two guys show up in munich line. What were
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
I hope you're right. How do you know the stuff about the astral plane? books? original experience? other evidence? a nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the guys sent to find a person in Germany who would become a suitable dictator said as he was allegedly dying in a hospital in Shanghai that the people who run the world are in Tibet or were educated there. But he was a shady character capable of saying anything. One of Hitler's best officers was a straight up kind of guy, and he said, that the evil Being behind Hitler does not live on this planet. But these are not facts. These are things people said without providing a shred of evidence. a off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. And who would that be? OffWorld Benjamin Creme confirms this. There is such a thing as the anti-christ, but there is a great misapprehension about what the anti-christ is. Fundamentally, the anti-christ is the First or Will aspect of God, in its destructive form. It is that which destroys in order to prepare the way for the building aspect, which is the Christ aspect. It is that which breaks down and destroys the old to prepare the new forms for the incoming energy, the building energy, so that the Christ aspect can manifest. That is what is happening now. This anti-christ force has worked out through the war from 1914-1945. (From the Hierarchical point of view that was one war.) That war was precipitated on to the physical plane from the astral planes where it had been going on, since Atlantean times, between the Forces of Light and the Forces of Darkness; the evolutionary and the involutionary forces; the Hierarchy and the materialistic forces of this planet. The war between them in Atlantis caused the Hierarchy (Who before then had worked openly, outwardly in the world as the priest-kings and god-like beings Who gave men the Atlantean civilisation) to become occult, esoteric, working only from the higher mental planes. By the defeat of the Axis powers in the war of 1939-1945, the Forces of Evil of the planet (which is the evil of all mankind, not simply of the Axis powers) were defeated. Certain leaders in Nazi Germany, Japan, and to a much lesser extent in Italy, focused in themselves the energy which we call the anti-christ; but it is an energy, it is not a being, not an individual. It is preparing the way. It is the destructive force of God Himself, which prepares the way for the Christ. Where the involutionary force overflows on to the evolutionary arc (on which we are), it appears to us as evil. It has its role, in upholding the matter aspect of the planet, but too gross a materiality prevents mankind from advancing along the evolutionary path. The Forces of Evil on the planet have been defeated. They are not destroyed, but they are defeated. There is a stanza in the Great Invocation which says: 'And may it seal the door where evil dwells'. This refers to the sealing energies (which we transmitted earlier in the meeting). Their job is to lock away, to seal those forces to their own domain, to uphold the matter aspect, by lifting humanity above the level where they can be influenced, so that we can spiritualise matter, which is what we are really about. http://www.shareintl.org Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are completely different, and you end up making statements that are plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Research has shown again and again that ordinary folks are very willing to hurt others with electric shock in laboratory settings. Experience has shown again and again that folks do not interfere when they see someone hurt someone else. Add to that absolute devotion to a guru, the brainwashing of minds made susceptible through meditation (the beliefs about not being the doer etc), egos willing to do anything to prove they're enlightened, group isolation, belief in establishing heaven on earth, and doing God's will, and you've got a recipe for what happened in Germany. Call it psychosis or what you will, it happened on a very large scale in Germany. I don't think Germans are any more psychotic than anyone else. We are all subject to social engineering when you get us young enough. a jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Atrocities are very possible when you believe that a) you are not the doer, b) it's all an illusion anyway, c) the atrocities are committed as a means to heaven on earth for a thousand years, and d) death is not real. a I think in order to commit attrocities, there has to be a fundamental lack of empathy for our fellow human beings, and I've heard that called sociopathy. Whatever else the sociopath uses as justification for hurting and killing others is just rationalizing this basic lack of empathy for others. It doesn't follow at all thnat if we are experiencing a), b) and d) above, that we are therefore capable of comitting attrocities. As for c), that sounds psychotic. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh yogis spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:46 AM, feste37 wrote: How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are completely different, and you end up making statements that are plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold sthapatya-veda city- plan which segregates people by castes. That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense of that word.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
I’d like to comment on someone’s observation that Maharishi took the best and the brightest of the baby boomers and turned them into bug-eyed cult zombies. Another way of looking at it is that he took a bunch of drugged-out hippies and enabled them to live wholesome, productive lives. When I learned TM, I had dropped out of high school, had been taking drugs for a year and was beginning to dabble with heroin, which some of my friends became addicted to and died from, had been arrested twice, and was in a very muddled state, mentally. Within a few weeks of learning TM, I had dropped my druggie friends, gotten a job, enrolled in a community college, made amends with my father, etc. And things got better from there. Many of us can tell similar stories. This doesn’t excuse all the things about MMY and the TMO that I and others criticize, but I think you have to give credit where credit is due. It’s not fair or honest to paint a totally negative picture. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Thanks for confirming my point. I ask you a blunt question that draws out the implications of what you are saying, and you are at a loss as to how to respond. Precisely. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh yogis spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
You're doing the same thing as Angela. There is no comparison between the TM movement and the Nazis that can pass any kind of basic test (except on this board of course). Using these kinds of arguments I could prove that my granny resembled Stalin. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:46 AM, feste37 wrote: How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are completely different, and you end up making statements that are plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold sthapatya-veda city- plan which segregates people by castes. That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense of that word.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to comment on someone's observation that Maharishi took the best and the brightest of the baby boomers and turned them into bug-eyed cult zombies. That's total nonsense. Another way of looking at it is that he took a bunch of drugged-out hippies and enabled them to live wholesome, productive lives. When I learned TM, I had dropped out of high school, had been taking drugs for a year and was beginning to dabble with heroin, which some of my friends became addicted to and died from, had been arrested twice, and was in a very muddled state, mentally. Within a few weeks of learning TM, I had dropped my druggie friends, gotten a job, enrolled in a community college, made amends with my father, etc. And things got better from there. Many of us can tell similar stories. Absolutely. My case wasn't as extreme but Transcendental Meditation got me to stop drug use and to get my act together. My ultra conservative Irish Catholic father whom I'd considered an asshole, became one of my best supporters. After I'd practiced TM for about a year he told me, That meditation saved your life, boy. And after I became a TM teacher my father asked me to initiate him. Now THAT'S a miracle! And if you had known my father, you'd agree. This doesn't excuse all the things about MMY and the TMO that I and others criticize, but I think you have to give credit where credit is due. It's not fair or honest to paint a totally negative picture. I don't understand what the hell Maharishi has been, and is, doing and I don't like it. But I can't argue with my *experience* of Transcendental Meditation as the best thing I've ever done.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not exonerating anyone, nor am I blaming anyone. I assume that when you say that you've read everything you could find on WWII, you mean what you could find in English. I read German, French, and Russian and can get through Dutch, Italian, Spanish and Danish given time and a dictionary. I went to high school in three different countries and learned early that the history that is taught in the U.S. is not the same history that is taught in, say, France. As for conspiracy theory bullshit, an objective researcher reads that also and with as critical an eye as she reads everything else. In fact, the minute a culture makes something taboo, she definitely takes a closer look. As for references, most of what I've got is in German and in French. I'll provide those references if you read those languages. No need, if something as interesting as this has been written about in France and Germany it will have been picked up by English historians too. In fact wikipedia has a good entry on both of them, they sound like a couple of characters to say the least! No mention of them making Hitler, but plenty on where they got their money (they were agents of foreign governments). If you have better sources why not bring wikipedia up to date. That's all I can find online, apart from loads of Illuminati/zionist stuff. Will check my history books to make sure. Thanks for writing all this, always nice to know there could be more to the world. Now, about the two guys: one of them is Moses Pinkeles (probably a Jew), a.k.a. Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln, a.k.a. Thimotheus Lincoln, a.k.a. Lama Djordi Den, a.k.a. Abbot Chao Kung. The agent of the pope he hung out with in New York in 1915 (two years after the creation of the Federal Reserve (which, by published admission of some of its members, was a conspiracy) was Franz von Papen. He was a Papal Chamberlain and best bud of Eugenio Pacelli, Papal Nuncio in Germany, the man who later becomes Pius XII. Moses (a.k.a. Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln, a.k.a. Thimotheus Lincoln, a.k.a. Lama Djordi Den, a.k.a. Abbot Chao Kung) later works directly under Himmler, establishes a Buddhist monastery in Berlin and goes on several expeditions to Tibet for Hitler, the first of which is to deliver a radio to the Dalai Lama (not the current guy, but his predecessor) so that Adolf and the Lama can chat daily. Moses (a.k.a. Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln, a.k.a. Thimotheus Lincoln, a.k.a. Lama Djordi Den, a.k.a. Abbot Chao Kung) is a useful fellow, it appears. In addition to working behind the scenes to help put Hitler in charge of Germany, he also helps the Shah of Iran grab the throne (though the evidence is somewhat sketchy in this instance), but he engineers several revolutions in China, working for three different war lordsno fuzzy evidence this time, but clear as day. He always has enough money to do these things, (buying a newspaper for Hitler, for example, which became the official Nazi rag) but all efforts to trace the source(s) of this money, have remained fruitless. The other, equally mysterious and useful guy with unknown sources of money at his back and who blew into Munich with multiple names was Rudolf Glauer, a.k.a. Erwin Torre, a.k.a. the Baron Rudolf, Freiherr von Sebottendorf. Much of Rudy's life lies in darkness, but it seems that as a young man, he was initiated into a Masonic Order by a Jewish banker by the name of Termudi in Turkey, and, with Termudi's guidance, he made it to the level of Rosicrucian Grand Master. By the time he's going on forty and just before coming to Germany, he is adopted by another Rosicrucian, the German expatriate, Freiherr von Sebottendorf und von der Rose. If Rudy were to be useful in Germany, he definitely needed that von in front of his name. It was primarily Rudy and Moses who provided the occult philosophy to the Thule Society which became an important aspect of Nazism, though one ignored by most historians and by the War Crimes Trials after the war. Rudy and Moses also provided the antisemitism, pervasively current in most of Europe and Russia, and which, from the beginning was designed to create a single enemy for the masses to focus on. It is important to understand that in the Thule Society, the society Rudy started with Moses at his back, especially at its upper levels, the rule was what Goering later said quite openly, Who's a Jew and who isn't is my decision. And here's a little icing on the cake of mystery which may or may not have anything to do with anything: Rudy and Moses apparently faked their own deaths. Rudy was a seeming suicide, but the body that was fished out of the Bosporus River turned out on later and on closer examination not to be his. And Moses, as the Abbot Chao Kung, allegedly died in a hospital in Shanghai, but when the Americans
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of do.rflex Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 10:51 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler Absolutely. My case wasn't as extreme but Transcendental Meditation got me to stop drug use and to get my act together. My ultra conservative Irish Catholic father whom I'd considered an asshole, became one of my best supporters. After I'd practiced TM for about a year he told me, That meditation saved your life, boy. And after I became a TM teacher my father asked me to initiate him. Now THAT'S a miracle! And if you had known my father, you'd agree. I had similar experiences with my parents. My dad was an alcoholic and my mom was in a mental hospital. TM helped them both tremendously. My mom actually spent 9 months in Switzerland with MMY and came back quite transformed. I’m grateful to him for allowing her to come. It was a gift to me, as he knew very well she wouldn’t accomplish much there. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Nabby, you have found a soul mate! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: One of the guys sent to find a person in Germany who would become a suitable dictator said as he was allegedly dying in a hospital in Shanghai that the people who run the world are in Tibet or were educated there. But he was a shady character capable of saying anything. One of Hitler's best officers was a straight up kind of guy, and he said, that the evil Being behind Hitler does not live on this planet. But these are not facts. These are things people said without providing a shred of evidence. a off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. And who would that be? OffWorld Benjamin Creme confirms this. There is such a thing as the anti-christ, but there is a great misapprehension about what the anti-christ is. Fundamentally, the anti-christ is the First or Will aspect of God, in its destructive form. It is that which destroys in order to prepare the way for the building aspect, which is the Christ aspect. It is that which breaks down and destroys the old to prepare the new forms for the incoming energy, the building energy, so that the Christ aspect can manifest. That is what is happening now. This anti-christ force has worked out through the war from 1914-1945. (From the Hierarchical point of view that was one war.) That war was precipitated on to the physical plane from the astral planes where it had been going on, since Atlantean times, between the Forces of Light and the Forces of Darkness; the evolutionary and the involutionary forces; the Hierarchy and the materialistic forces of this planet. The war between them in Atlantis caused the Hierarchy (Who before then had worked openly, outwardly in the world as the priest-kings and god-like beings Who gave men the Atlantean civilisation) to become occult, esoteric, working only from the higher mental planes. By the defeat of the Axis powers in the war of 1939-1945, the Forces of Evil of the planet (which is the evil of all mankind, not simply of the Axis powers) were defeated. Certain leaders in Nazi Germany, Japan, and to a much lesser extent in Italy, focused in themselves the energy which we call the anti-christ; but it is an energy, it is not a being, not an individual. It is preparing the way. It is the destructive force of God Himself, which prepares the way for the Christ. Where the involutionary force overflows on to the evolutionary arc (on which we are), it appears to us as evil. It has its role, in upholding the matter aspect of the planet, but too gross a materiality prevents mankind from advancing along the evolutionary path. The Forces of Evil on the planet have been defeated. They are not destroyed, but they are defeated. There is a stanza in the Great Invocation which says: 'And may it seal the door where evil dwells'. This refers to the sealing energies (which we transmitted earlier in the meeting). Their job is to lock away, to seal those forces to their own domain, to uphold the matter aspect, by lifting humanity above the level where they can be influenced, so that we can spiritualise matter, which is what we are really about. http://www.shareintl.org
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
On Oct 15, 2007, at 12:24 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Nabby, you have found a soul mate! Think of the romantic evenings: channelling (sorry, OVERSHADOWING) together, waiting for the latest Maitreya sighting, chasing down Nazi reptilian shape-shifters, talking to lamas in Tibet over the radio...the possibilities are endless...and I'm pretty sure they're both single! :-)))
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of do.rflex Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 10:51 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler Absolutely. My case wasn't as extreme but Transcendental Meditation got me to stop drug use and to get my act together. My ultra conservative Irish Catholic father whom I'd considered an asshole, became one of my best supporters. After I'd practiced TM for about a year he told me, That meditation saved your life, boy. And after I became a TM teacher my father asked me to initiate him. Now THAT'S a miracle! And if you had known my father, you'd agree. I had similar experiences with my parents. My dad was an alcoholic and my mom was in a mental hospital. TM helped them both tremendously. My mom actually spent 9 months in Switzerland with MMY and came back quite transformed. I'm grateful to him for allowing her to come. It was a gift to me, as he knew very well she wouldn't accomplish much there. I look at the quantity of people like myself in that seemingly 'unique' and 'special' time frame who were 'lost' in the darker side of the hippie daze [days], or just plain 'lost' - and because of TM became positive and hopeful for probably the first time in many of their lives. The life-saving transformation that happened to me must also have been evident in hundreds of thousands of others in those days.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold sthapatya-veda city- plan which segregates people by castes. That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense of that word. So...you are willing to entertain the most facile speculation and rumors regarding Maharishi, but dammit let's put these rumors to rest regarding the Dalai Lama, right now! Sorry Vaj, you don't come off as credible in the least-- Just someone peddling their own special brand of enlightenment. Dogmatic.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Some of you are a little hasty in drawing conclusions about what I've said so far and even the nature of my mind. So far, all I've done is drawn a few comparisons that life and study have presented me with. I have not drawn any of many possible conclusions that could be drawn from these comparisons. It's a big topic, and a little too early to dismiss it as unworthy of considerations. I've barely laid the groundwork. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are completely different, and you end up making statements that are plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Research has shown again and again that ordinary folks are very willing to hurt others with electric shock in laboratory settings. Experience has shown again and again that folks do not interfere when they see someone hurt someone else. Add to that absolute devotion to a guru, the brainwashing of minds made susceptible through meditation (the beliefs about not being the doer etc), egos willing to do anything to prove they're enlightened, group isolation, belief in establishing heaven on earth, and doing God's will, and you've got a recipe for what happened in Germany. Call it psychosis or what you will, it happened on a very large scale in Germany. I don't think Germans are any more psychotic than anyone else. We are all subject to social engineering when you get us young enough. a jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Atrocities are very possible when you believe that a) you are not the doer, b) it's all an illusion anyway, c) the atrocities are committed as a means to heaven on earth for a thousand years, and d) death is not real. a I think in order to commit attrocities, there has to be a fundamental lack of empathy for our fellow human beings, and I've heard that called sociopathy. Whatever else the sociopath uses as justification for hurting and killing others is just rationalizing this basic lack of empathy for others. It doesn't follow at all thnat if we are experiencing a), b) and d) above, that we are therefore capable of comitting attrocities. As for c), that sounds psychotic. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, which all these spiritual movements are serving in concert with each other. - Bronte Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh yogis spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
I could give you solid documentation for the fact that Trebitsch-Lincoln did in fact take a radio to the Dali Lama. Unfortunately for me, most of my sources are not in English. Where I went to grad school people did dismiss one another's ideas, but not without a better hearing than you've given me. a Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:46 AM, feste37 wrote: How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are completely different, and you end up making statements that are plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold sthapatya-veda city-plan which segregates people by castes. That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense of that word. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Again, you are missing my point. As I said, I have drawn some comparisons. I have drawn no conclusions, and I have called no one either good or evil. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for confirming my point. I ask you a blunt question that draws out the implications of what you are saying, and you are at a loss as to how to respond. Precisely. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh yogis spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Again let me state clearly that I have drawn some comparisons. I have made no judgments about either Hitler or Mahesh. Those judgments have all come from the group, not from me. a do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to comment on someone's observation that Maharishi took the best and the brightest of the baby boomers and turned them into bug-eyed cult zombies. That's total nonsense. Another way of looking at it is that he took a bunch of drugged-out hippies and enabled them to live wholesome, productive lives. When I learned TM, I had dropped out of high school, had been taking drugs for a year and was beginning to dabble with heroin, which some of my friends became addicted to and died from, had been arrested twice, and was in a very muddled state, mentally. Within a few weeks of learning TM, I had dropped my druggie friends, gotten a job, enrolled in a community college, made amends with my father, etc. And things got better from there. Many of us can tell similar stories. Absolutely. My case wasn't as extreme but Transcendental Meditation got me to stop drug use and to get my act together. My ultra conservative Irish Catholic father whom I'd considered an asshole, became one of my best supporters. After I'd practiced TM for about a year he told me, That meditation saved your life, boy. And after I became a TM teacher my father asked me to initiate him. Now THAT'S a miracle! And if you had known my father, you'd agree. This doesn't excuse all the things about MMY and the TMO that I and others criticize, but I think you have to give credit where credit is due. It's not fair or honest to paint a totally negative picture. I don't understand what the hell Maharishi has been, and is, doing and I don't like it. But I can't argue with my *experience* of Transcendental Meditation as the best thing I've ever done. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
You are still not getting it. You are judging Hitler as evil and Mahesh as good. This judgment blinds you to what I am doing. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're doing the same thing as Angela. There is no comparison between the TM movement and the Nazis that can pass any kind of basic test (except on this board of course). Using these kinds of arguments I could prove that my granny resembled Stalin. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:46 AM, feste37 wrote: How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are completely different, and you end up making statements that are plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold sthapatya-veda city- plan which segregates people by castes. That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense of that word. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
You are making some unwarranted assumptions about what gets published where. Note that in your case they are assumptions since you don't read other languages. In my case, however, it's not assumptions but real reading experience and research experience. The two dudes that started the Thule Society were indeed a couple of shady characters. Whose servants they were is unclear. But they did start the society that created Hitler. Others came on board of course, and the whole story would take twenty pages to lay out. To do so is not part of my point. Wikipedia is useful, but hardly qualifies as a scholarly tool. See how far you'd get in grad school citing Wikipedia. It may serve as a beginning point of research but is no substitute for serious research and scholarship. a hugheshugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not exonerating anyone, nor am I blaming anyone. I assume that when you say that you've read everything you could find on WWII, you mean what you could find in English. I read German, French, and Russian and can get through Dutch, Italian, Spanish and Danish given time and a dictionary. I went to high school in three different countries and learned early that the history that is taught in the U.S. is not the same history that is taught in, say, France. As for conspiracy theory bullshit, an objective researcher reads that also and with as critical an eye as she reads everything else. In fact, the minute a culture makes something taboo, she definitely takes a closer look. As for references, most of what I've got is in German and in French. I'll provide those references if you read those languages. No need, if something as interesting as this has been written about in France and Germany it will have been picked up by English historians too. In fact wikipedia has a good entry on both of them, they sound like a couple of characters to say the least! No mention of them making Hitler, but plenty on where they got their money (they were agents of foreign governments). If you have better sources why not bring wikipedia up to date. That's all I can find online, apart from loads of Illuminati/zionist stuff. Will check my history books to make sure. Thanks for writing all this, always nice to know there could be more to the world. Now, about the two guys: one of them is Moses Pinkeles (probably a Jew), a.k.a. Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln, a.k.a. Thimotheus Lincoln, a.k.a. Lama Djordi Den, a.k.a. Abbot Chao Kung. The agent of the pope he hung out with in New York in 1915 (two years after the creation of the Federal Reserve (which, by published admission of some of its members, was a conspiracy) was Franz von Papen. He was a Papal Chamberlain and best bud of Eugenio Pacelli, Papal Nuncio in Germany, the man who later becomes Pius XII. Moses (a.k.a. Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln, a.k.a. Thimotheus Lincoln, a.k.a. Lama Djordi Den, a.k.a. Abbot Chao Kung) later works directly under Himmler, establishes a Buddhist monastery in Berlin and goes on several expeditions to Tibet for Hitler, the first of which is to deliver a radio to the Dalai Lama (not the current guy, but his predecessor) so that Adolf and the Lama can chat daily. Moses (a.k.a. Ignaz Trebitsch-Lincoln, a.k.a. Thimotheus Lincoln, a.k.a. Lama Djordi Den, a.k.a. Abbot Chao Kung) is a useful fellow, it appears. In addition to working behind the scenes to help put Hitler in charge of Germany, he also helps the Shah of Iran grab the throne (though the evidence is somewhat sketchy in this instance), but he engineers several revolutions in China, working for three different war lordsno fuzzy evidence this time, but clear as day. He always has enough money to do these things, (buying a newspaper for Hitler, for example, which became the official Nazi rag) but all efforts to trace the source(s) of this money, have remained fruitless. The other, equally mysterious and useful guy with unknown sources of money at his back and who blew into Munich with multiple names was Rudolf Glauer, a.k.a. Erwin Torre, a.k.a. the Baron Rudolf, Freiherr von Sebottendorf. Much of Rudy's life lies in darkness, but it seems that as a young man, he was initiated into a Masonic Order by a Jewish banker by the name of Termudi in Turkey, and, with Termudi's guidance, he made it to the level of Rosicrucian Grand Master. By the time he's going on forty and just before coming to Germany, he is adopted by another Rosicrucian, the German expatriate, Freiherr von Sebottendorf und von der Rose. If Rudy were to be useful in Germany, he definitely needed that von in front of his name. It was primarily Rudy and Moses who provided the occult philosophy to the Thule Society which became an important aspect of
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Again, my comparison is in no way intended to dismiss or diminish what TM has done for people. It's not part of what I am discussing. I have not attacked anyone with my comparison. A comparison is simply a comparison. Conclusions come much later. a Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of do.rflex Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 10:51 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler Absolutely. My case wasn't as extreme but Transcendental Meditation got me to stop drug use and to get my act together. My ultra conservative Irish Catholic father whom I'd considered an asshole, became one of my best supporters. After I'd practiced TM for about a year he told me, That meditation saved your life, boy. And after I became a TM teacher my father asked me to initiate him. Now THAT'S a miracle! And if you had known my father, you'd agree. I had similar experiences with my parents. My dad was an alcoholic and my mom was in a mental hospital. TM helped them both tremendously. My mom actually spent 9 months in Switzerland with MMY and came back quite transformed. Im grateful to him for allowing her to come. It was a gift to me, as he knew very well she wouldnt accomplish much there. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
t's a big topic, and a little too early to dismiss it as unworthy of considerations. I've barely laid the groundwork. Uh oh... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some of you are a little hasty in drawing conclusions about what I've said so far and even the nature of my mind. So far, all I've done is drawn a few comparisons that life and study have presented me with. I have not drawn any of many possible conclusions that could be drawn from these comparisons. It's a big topic, and a little too early to dismiss it as unworthy of considerations. I've barely laid the groundwork. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are completely different, and you end up making statements that are plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Research has shown again and again that ordinary folks are very willing to hurt others with electric shock in laboratory settings. Experience has shown again and again that folks do not interfere when they see someone hurt someone else. Add to that absolute devotion to a guru, the brainwashing of minds made susceptible through meditation (the beliefs about not being the doer etc), egos willing to do anything to prove they're enlightened, group isolation, belief in establishing heaven on earth, and doing God's will, and you've got a recipe for what happened in Germany. Call it psychosis or what you will, it happened on a very large scale in Germany. I don't think Germans are any more psychotic than anyone else. We are all subject to social engineering when you get us young enough. a jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Atrocities are very possible when you believe that a) you are not the doer, b) it's all an illusion anyway, c) the atrocities are committed as a means to heaven on earth for a thousand years, and d) death is not real. a I think in order to commit attrocities, there has to be a fundamental lack of empathy for our fellow human beings, and I've heard that called sociopathy. Whatever else the sociopath uses as justification for hurting and killing others is just rationalizing this basic lack of empathy for others. It doesn't follow at all thnat if we are experiencing a), b) and d) above, that we are therefore capable of comitting attrocities. As for c), that sounds psychotic. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
I agree that the TMO can't be singled out, and if I did, I was in error. There's tons of New Age stuff around, just as there was in Germany before and during Hitler. Also, don't forget that I've been a meditator for going on sixty-two years now. The worst thing I've said about TMO and other New Age is that they may have been a distraction. They may have prevented political action when stories of torture first came out. And then, nobody has touched my question about the Burmese monks giving their lives for democracy and the political freedom of others while we are doing what exactly? There is some evidence that American concentration camps are already built (and note I said evidence, I did not say proof), then those who man the gas valves will most likely not be the TM crowd. On the other hand, none of us know what we might do when faced with either following a command or facing torture and death. a Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, which all these spiritual movements are serving in concert with each other. - Bronte Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] There is some evidence that American concentration camps are already built (and note I said evidence, I did not say proof), then those who man the gas valves will most likely not be the TM crowd. On the other hand, none of us know what we might do when faced with either following a command or facing torture and death. a Good Lord. This is getting beyond bizarre. [snip]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
So the implication is that MMY, like the Nazis, has prepared his people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. Any shred of evidence to support this preposterous notion? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, which all these spiritual movements are serving in concert with each other. - Bronte Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh yogis spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. Send instant messages to your online friends
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
I see what you are doing very well. Here's my advice: forget about the Nazis. Thinking about them is doing you no good at all. Instead, go out and buy a big cookbook and cook a delicious meal for your man, if you have one. It will make you feel better. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are still not getting it. You are judging Hitler as evil and Mahesh as good. This judgment blinds you to what I am doing. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're doing the same thing as Angela. There is no comparison between the TM movement and the Nazis that can pass any kind of basic test (except on this board of course). Using these kinds of arguments I could prove that my granny resembled Stalin. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:46 AM, feste37 wrote: How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are completely different, and you end up making statements that are plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold sthapatya-veda city- plan which segregates people by castes. That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense of that word. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
2007-10-15
Thread
Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?
A manifestation similar to other manifestations during the pre-Nazi and Nazi era -- not necessarily cocreators, simply there concurrently. Is that clear? *I want every person to be complete in themselves. Your himsa has no placein my mission.* On 10/15/07, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the implication is that MMY, like the Nazis, has prepared his people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. Any shred of evidence to support this preposterous notion? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, which all these spiritual movements are serving in concert with each other. - Bronte Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh yogis
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
2007-10-15
Thread
Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?
There is corroberating articles and perhaps even video at this link: http://NewUSConcentrationCamps.andmuchmore.com regarding US concentration camps already built. Of all that anyone leading or teaching has to convey, the most valuable thing to cultivate and convey to others is *a moral conscience*. Only such persons deserve to lead others , in any capacity. *Anything less is a menace to society*. On 10/15/07, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that the TMO can't be singled out, and if I did, I was in error. There's tons of New Age stuff around, just as there was in Germany before and during Hitler. Also, don't forget that I've been a meditator for going on sixty-two years now. The worst thing I've said about TMO and other New Age is that they may have been a distraction. They may have prevented political action when stories of torture first came out. And then, nobody has touched my question about the Burmese monks giving their lives for democracy and the political freedom of others while we are doing what exactly? There is some evidence that American concentration camps are already built (and note I said evidence, I did not say proof), then those who man the gas valves will most likely not be the TM crowd. On the other hand, none of us know what we might do when faced with either following a command or facing torture and death. a *Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, which all these spiritual movements are serving in concert with each other. - Bronte *Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a *feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
When did I say Mahesh prepared his people to commit mass murder? These are conclusions you are drawing, these are not accusations I am making. I'm beginning to think some folks in Ff don't know how to read. Not all responses have been on the level of get yourself barefoot into the kitchen, but some have. Tsk tsk. Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A manifestation similar to other manifestations during the pre-Nazi and Nazi era -- not necessarily cocreators, simply there concurrently. Is that clear? I want every person to be complete in themselves. Your himsa has no place in my mission. On 10/15/07, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the implication is that MMY, like the Nazis, has prepared his people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. Any shred of evidence to support this preposterous notion? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, which all these spiritual movements are serving in concert with each other. - Bronte Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
If you're referring to my comment it was about TTC not just people learning TM. Becoming a teacher was a magnitude much deeper than just being a meditator or even Sidha. What you're saying is that meditation became a replacement for drugs albeit a safe one. That would have worked with a lot of meditation courses but at the time in the 1970's TM was probably one of the least cult like of the organizations (that manifested later). I can just imagine what might have happened if I did one of Muktananda's weekend sessions (and I had friends at the time that did) and became involved with that organization which was more religious in nature. My relatives would have had a fit but because of the well publicized secular nature of the TMO they were supportive even when I did TTC and then the Sidhis (which they loved to have me tell people about my flying just to see the reaction). By the time I did TM I was already far from the musician's drug scene. In fact the other two members of the jazz trio I played in also started TM and one also became a teacher. What I am referring to is how Maharishi invented yuppies. :) Rick Archer wrote: I’d like to comment on someone’s observation that Maharishi took the best and the brightest of the baby boomers and turned them into bug-eyed cult zombies. Another way of looking at it is that he took a bunch of drugged-out hippies and enabled them to live wholesome, productive lives. When I learned TM, I had dropped out of high school, had been taking drugs for a year and was beginning to dabble with heroin, which some of my friends became addicted to and died from, had been arrested twice, and was in a very muddled state, mentally. Within a few weeks of learning TM, I had dropped my druggie friends, gotten a job, enrolled in a community college, made amends with my father, etc. And things got better from there. Many of us can tell similar stories. This doesn’t excuse all the things about MMY and the TMO that I and others criticize, but I think you have to give credit where credit is due. It’s not fair or honest to paint a totally negative picture. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
You must be very naive. The reason this poster is making such statements is to imply that TM people think like Nazis and are members of a proto-Nazi movement that has the potential to do much harm. It doesn't seem to bother her that she lives in this town and is slandering her friends and neighbors. She even says she loves living here, which of course gives the lie to her entire argument. She may know a lot and be very clever, but she has neither judgment nor wisdom and would be better off taking her poison elsewhere. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A manifestation similar to other manifestations during the pre-Nazi and Nazi era -- not necessarily cocreators, simply there concurrently. Is that clear? *I want every person to be complete in themselves. Your himsa has no placein my mission.* On 10/15/07, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the implication is that MMY, like the Nazis, has prepared his people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. Any shred of evidence to support this preposterous notion? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter brontebaxter8@ wrote: His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, which all these spiritual movements are serving in concert with each other. - Bronte Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 feste37@ wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order,
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
2007-10-15
Thread
Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?
I'm witnessing much projection from people reading things into statements that in fact, both grammatically, literally, explicitly and imiplicitly are not being made by the people the misreaders are accusing of. As meditators, more mature objectivization is a consequence of sincerity in meditation, the mind taking the shape of more truthful dispositions and perspectives. Of all that anyone leading or teaching has to convey, the most valuable thing to cultivate and convey to others is *a moral conscience*. Only such persons deserve to lead others , in any capacity. *Anything less is a menace to society*. On 10/15/07, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must be very naive. The reason this poster is making such statements is to imply that TM people think like Nazis and are members of a proto-Nazi movement that has the potential to do much harm. It doesn't seem to bother her that she lives in this town and is slandering her friends and neighbors. She even says she loves living here, which of course gives the lie to her entire argument. She may know a lot and be very clever, but she has neither judgment nor wisdom and would be better off taking her poison elsewhere. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A manifestation similar to other manifestations during the pre-Nazi and Nazi era -- not necessarily cocreators, simply there concurrently. Is that clear? *I want every person to be complete in themselves. Your himsa has no placein my mission.* On 10/15/07, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the implication is that MMY, like the Nazis, has prepared his people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. Any shred of evidence to support this preposterous notion? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter brontebaxter8@ wrote: His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, which all these spiritual movements are serving in concert with each other. - Bronte Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 feste37@ wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must be very naive. The reason this poster is making such statements is to imply that TM people think like Nazis and are members of a proto-Nazi movement that has the potential to do much harm. Same old story about the snake and the string. Without light, it remains a snake.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
feste37 wrote: I see what you are doing very well. Here's my advice: forget about the Nazis. Thinking about them is doing you no good at all. Instead, go out and buy a big cookbook and cook a delicious meal for your man, if you have one. It will make you feel better. Edg: After what I've been through trying to knock sense into this community about the necessity of being honorable and moral at the subtlest levels, you, Feste, come out with this horrid get thee to thy kitchen you dumb woman. GAWD! I'm not expecting anyone to protest much cuz this is same ol' same ol' man-shit, but Angela, if you want them, you can have all my remaining posting privileges this week until you've posted enough to thoroughly whack this hideous sexist psychic assault. Hoping you won't just dump outta here cuz of this rust brain's boorish crud, or that so many here are spinning your words to mean things you've not said. One thing's very clear. The TMO takes money by the millions from folks and takes so much more without the least hint of caring about the costs-to-lifestyle that so many paid in so many ways beyond mere expenditures. The cold-heartedness of this thuggary is clear in almost any interaction with the movement, and I, for one, could easily see Bevan turning a gas valve on in the dome if he was told to do so -- or, maybe even if it merely got him laid. Feste, by your remarks that demean HALF THE WORLD'S POPULATION, you have clearly put yourself into the same TMO fascist camp. Please apologize to all women everywhere, and admit it was just a callous joke not a statement of your philosophy. Edg No matter your intent -- even a sweet repartee involving a gender nose-tweaking kindly put-down -- Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: You are still not getting it. You are judging Hitler as evil and Mahesh as good. This judgment blinds you to what I am doing. a feste37 feste37@ wrote: You're doing the same thing as Angela. There is no comparison between the TM movement and the Nazis that can pass any kind of basic test (except on this board of course). Using these kinds of arguments I could prove that my granny resembled Stalin. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:46 AM, feste37 wrote: How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are completely different, and you end up making statements that are plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold sthapatya-veda city- plan which segregates people by castes. That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense of that word. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
I'm always pleased to get a reaction. My advice to you is, acquire a sense of humor. Failing that, cook a meal for your woman, if you have one (or your man, if you happen to be a homosexual), and then maybe you'll calm down a bit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: feste37 wrote: I see what you are doing very well. Here's my advice: forget about the Nazis. Thinking about them is doing you no good at all. Instead, go out and buy a big cookbook and cook a delicious meal for your man, if you have one. It will make you feel better. Edg: After what I've been through trying to knock sense into this community about the necessity of being honorable and moral at the subtlest levels, you, Feste, come out with this horrid get thee to thy kitchen you dumb woman. GAWD! I'm not expecting anyone to protest much cuz this is same ol' same ol' man-shit, but Angela, if you want them, you can have all my remaining posting privileges this week until you've posted enough to thoroughly whack this hideous sexist psychic assault. Hoping you won't just dump outta here cuz of this rust brain's boorish crud, or that so many here are spinning your words to mean things you've not said. One thing's very clear. The TMO takes money by the millions from folks and takes so much more without the least hint of caring about the costs-to-lifestyle that so many paid in so many ways beyond mere expenditures. The cold-heartedness of this thuggary is clear in almost any interaction with the movement, and I, for one, could easily see Bevan turning a gas valve on in the dome if he was told to do so -- or, maybe even if it merely got him laid. Feste, by your remarks that demean HALF THE WORLD'S POPULATION, you have clearly put yourself into the same TMO fascist camp. Please apologize to all women everywhere, and admit it was just a callous joke not a statement of your philosophy. Edg No matter your intent -- even a sweet repartee involving a gender nose-tweaking kindly put-down -- Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: You are still not getting it. You are judging Hitler as evil and Mahesh as good. This judgment blinds you to what I am doing. a feste37 feste37@ wrote: You're doing the same thing as Angela. There is no comparison between the TM movement and the Nazis that can pass any kind of basic test (except on this board of course). Using these kinds of arguments I could prove that my granny resembled Stalin. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:46 AM, feste37 wrote: How many atrocities have been committed by TMers? Your reasoning reminds me of the Rodney King trial in LA in 1992, when the defense managed to deconstruct the case to the extent that what was obviously true no longer appeared so. You take a few concepts and ideas, compare them to a few other ideas held by another group in a different time and culture, and then try to show how similar they are. What you ignore is a host of ways in which these two movements are completely different, and you end up making statements that are plainly ridiculous, not to mention offensive to the many people in this town who have helped to create it as the place that apparently you choose to live in. Anyone with an iota of balanced judgment could see through your arguments in a moment--a child could do so--but you, carried away by your own cleverness, cannot. If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold sthapatya-veda city- plan which segregates people by castes. That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense of that word.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
What you're failing to recognize is the technique of the smear. How many times have you heard a politician make a smear and then claim that his words are being taken out of context? The idea is simply to plant the seed, and then let it do its work while you pretend that you didn't really mean it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm witnessing much projection from people reading things into statements that in fact, both grammatically, literally, explicitly and imiplicitly are not being made by the people the misreaders are accusing of. As meditators, more mature objectivization is a consequence of sincerity in meditation, the mind taking the shape of more truthful dispositions and perspectives. Of all that anyone leading or teaching has to convey, the most valuable thing to cultivate and convey to others is *a moral conscience*. Only such persons deserve to lead others , in any capacity. *Anything less is a menace to society*. On 10/15/07, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You must be very naive. The reason this poster is making such statements is to imply that TM people think like Nazis and are members of a proto-Nazi movement that has the potential to do much harm. It doesn't seem to bother her that she lives in this town and is slandering her friends and neighbors. She even says she loves living here, which of course gives the lie to her entire argument. She may know a lot and be very clever, but she has neither judgment nor wisdom and would be better off taking her poison elsewhere. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It? DharmaMitra1@ wrote: A manifestation similar to other manifestations during the pre-Nazi and Nazi era -- not necessarily cocreators, simply there concurrently. Is that clear? *I want every person to be complete in themselves. Your himsa has no placein my mission.* On 10/15/07, feste37 feste37@ wrote: So the implication is that MMY, like the Nazis, has prepared his people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. Any shred of evidence to support this preposterous notion? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter brontebaxter8@ wrote: His point, Angela, seems to be that your paralleling the TMO and Nazi Germany is not to be taken seriously because, unlike the Nazis, the movement has never committed violence. True. However, fiesty Feste, Angela did already address this fact in her first or second post on the subject. She said the Third Reich prepared its people to be nonchalant about mass murder by instilling New Age principles in them in advance of the violence. So the fact that violence has not yet erupted in the current situation could mean we're not yet at that stage. I believe, though, Angela, that Maharishi's movement can't be singled out for instilling in our culture ideas that are damaging to individual responsibility, discriminating thought, and the integrity of the individual ego. The same attitude is coming from all directions, not just TM. We're finding it in Buddhism (as it's usually taught in the West), Eckart Tolle, certainly in Byron Katie, and very strongly in the Neo-Advaitin gurus. The good parts of Eastern philosophy that I glommed onto as a girl have pretty much been forgotten and taken over by what is either distortions of the original teachings or -- maybe the insidiousness was there all along and I was too young to see it. MMY's movement is becoming scary with the rajas stuff and is setting itself up in a way that could turn militant. As such it stands out as particularly suspect. But I believe something deeper is afoot, which all these spiritual movements are serving in concert with each other. - Bronte Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 feste37@ wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you're referring to my comment it was about TTC not just people learning TM. Becoming a teacher was a magnitude much deeper than just being a meditator or even Sidha. What you're saying is that meditation became a replacement for drugs albeit a safe one. That would have worked with a lot of meditation courses but at the time in the 1970's TM was probably one of the least cult like of the organizations (that manifested later). I can just imagine what might have happened if I did one of Muktananda's weekend sessions (and I had friends at the time that did) and became involved with that organization which was more religious in nature. My relatives would have had a fit but because of the well publicized secular nature of the TMO they were supportive even when I did TTC and then the Sidhis (which they loved to have me tell people about my flying just to see the reaction). The Secular presentation of TM was Key, bolstered by the Scientific American journal's publication of Keith Wallace's doctoral work on TM. TM's genious depends upon a secular orientation, underpinned by rationality and the Scientific method. When the secular orientation of TM was abandoned at the beginning of the Siddhi instruction, the TMO began the long, continuing slide toward irrelevance, and the TM technique likewise became obscure. It is my belief that TM will soon re-emerge as a secular technique, and as such will be practiced by persons of all cultures, religions, and classes. As a secular technique, it offers so much good. It's dormant status within the now overtly religious TMO is an injustice to humanity. It will be corrected - soon. By the time I did TM I was already far from the musician's drug scene. In fact the other two members of the jazz trio I played in also started TM and one also became a teacher. What I am referring to is how Maharishi invented yuppies. :) Rick Archer wrote: I'd like to comment on someone's observation that Maharishi took the best and the brightest of the baby boomers and turned them into bug-eyed cult zombies. Another way of looking at it is that he took a bunch of drugged-out hippies and enabled them to live wholesome, productive lives. When I learned TM, I had dropped out of high school, had been taking drugs for a year and was beginning to dabble with heroin, which some of my friends became addicted to and died from, had been arrested twice, and was in a very muddled state, mentally. Within a few weeks of learning TM, I had dropped my druggie friends, gotten a job, enrolled in a community college, made amends with my father, etc. And things got better from there. Many of us can tell similar stories. This doesn't excuse all the things about MMY and the TMO that I and others criticize, but I think you have to give credit where credit is due. It's not fair or honest to paint a totally negative picture. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
On Oct 15, 2007, at 1:33 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: I could give you solid documentation for the fact that Trebitsch- Lincoln did in fact take a radio to the Dali Lama. Unfortunately for me, most of my sources are not in English. Where I went to grad school people did dismiss one another's ideas, but not without a better hearing than you've given me. a Was it even possible to have radio communication between a himalayan kingdom, presumably the Potala in Lhasa and Germany at that time? And of course I'm basing a lot of my conclusions on the accounts I've heard or read and what the Tibetan government is known to have said about the Germans. They stand in stark contrast to what it sounds like you're stating. Of course you're not on trial, so I'd love to hear what you've heard. It seems to me the friendliest relationship in eastern Europe was with the Tsars. A number of years ago I met a gentleman who oversaw what was used as a radio-jamming facility in the communist era but was originally a large Tibetan temple and library, containing many rare Tibetan artifacts from the Tsarist era.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
On Oct 15, 2007, at 1:24 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold sthapatya-veda city- plan which segregates people by castes. That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense of that word. So...you are willing to entertain the most facile speculation and rumors regarding Maharishi, but dammit let's put these rumors to rest regarding the Dalai Lama, right now! Sorry Vaj, you don't come off as credible in the least-- Just someone peddling their own special brand of enlightenment. Dogmatic. Hi Jim, if you have evidence that the Dalai Lama's monks wore Nazi symbols on their ties, has plans to tear down western cities and rebuild them, molests his females students, etc. etc., I'd love to hear it Jim. Since I made no reference to any special brand of enlightenment your points seem rather moot. As I've pointed out on many occasions, there are numerous enlightenment traditions, all quite beautiful when passed on authentically and in undiluted fashion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 15, 2007, at 1:24 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: If you watch The Occult History of the Third Reich, the BBC documentary, esp. the episode The SS: Blood and the Soil, it would become more apparent what the significance is. Prior to the arising of Hitler's authoritarian regime there was a great interest in meditation, vegetarianism, etc. much like our 1960's. Mahesh's ideas, if implemented, i.e. establishment of a worldwide Vedic society adhering to caste laws and ideas of Vedic purity, we would be following a very similar pattern. Would it result in the deaths of millions? It's impossible to say but the same pattern is in place already, and if left to his own devices we would see western cities being destroyed and rebuilt on the fourfold sthapatya-veda city- plan which segregates people by castes. That's not to say that all of what Angela is claiming as fact is factual. Hitler communicating daily with the 13th Dalai Lama? Give me a break! Many of the German fantasies about Tibet were long ago proven to be just that: fantasy. They'd make good Indiana Jones sequels, but should not be considered history in the scientific sense of that word. So...you are willing to entertain the most facile speculation and rumors regarding Maharishi, but dammit let's put these rumors to rest regarding the Dalai Lama, right now! Sorry Vaj, you don't come off as credible in the least-- Just someone peddling their own special brand of enlightenment. Dogmatic. Hi Jim, if you have evidence that the Dalai Lama's monks wore Nazi symbols on their ties, has plans to tear down western cities and rebuild them, molests his females students, etc. etc., I'd love to hear it Jim. Since I made no reference to any special brand of enlightenment your points seem rather moot. As I've pointed out on many occasions, there are numerous enlightenment traditions, all quite beautiful when passed on authentically and in undiluted fashion. Hi Vaj, what you are doing is cherry picking your 'evidence', to support your opinion. Do you know for certain that all of the Masters and teachers of what you call numerous enlightenment traditions, all quite beautiful when passed on authentically and in undiluted fashion, are free of the same behaviors that you accuse Maharishi of? Or do you look less critically at them, becuse they support your kind of enlightenment tradition?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
On Oct 15, 2007, at 9:54 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Hi Vaj, what you are doing is cherry picking your 'evidence', to support your opinion. Do you know for certain that all of the Masters and teachers of what you call numerous enlightenment traditions, all quite beautiful when passed on authentically and in undiluted fashion, are free of the same behaviors that you accuse Maharishi of? Integrity of a teacher is important to me, that's all. Or do you look less critically at them, becuse they support your kind of enlightenment tradition? I test them all like gold.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
35, Jim. Sayonara.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, you are missing my point. As I said, I have drawn some comparisons. I have drawn no conclusions, and I have called no one either good or evil. Angela, welcome to the board. You comparison is very dumb however. Every child and halfwit has, in the past, made this comparison in their head as a musing, and quickly realised it does not have legs. You think it is an interesting comparison. I am afraid it is not. It is weak, ill-thought-out, poorly concieved, and ultimately redundant, therefore it is a tedious waste of space, and that is what people are objecting to. OffWorld feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for confirming my point. I ask you a blunt question that draws out the implications of what you are saying, and you are at a loss as to how to respond. Precisely. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Your first question misses my point so completely, I'm at a loss as to how to respond. And no, it's not hard to live in this town. I chose it and love it here. a feste37 feste37@ wrote: How many Jews has Maharishi murdered? How many death camps has he set up? It must be hard for you living in this town, surrounded by a movement that resembles the Nazis so closely. It seems to me that your mind is so distorted, heaven knows by what, that you cannot make clear distinctions between things. But welcome to this board. You truly belong here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It meant basically the same thing. Devotion to the Guru was important, and the Guru, for the SS, was Hitler. They thought of themselves as pure warriors monks. They could get married, of course, but they had to have permission from on high, and the girl had to pass muster. Purity of the nervous system was purity of the blood. They believed in karma, and in performing action established in Being. They believed in detachment and they believed in higher states of consciousness. They had nine of them. Gotta run. a Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh yogis spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you know, the Vedas depict many great demons, such as Ravana, as being extremely charismatic, learned, and highly evolved. In some cases the story is told that the demon had the choice of being born into a series of righteous lives or one demonic life in which they would be killed by the Lord and thus liberated. They chose the demonic life. I don't presume to know the karmic mechanics behind the holocaust. The perpetrators of it, and especially Hitler, certainly seemed evil by all normal standards, but the universe is a strange place. Who can say with certainty where Hitler's soul is now? Is he suffering in hell or was he really some great soul that chose to play a role very distasteful by civilized standards? I would like to think he's suffering in hell, but who really knows? It seems the light and dark forces are always balancing each other out. There need to be great souls on both sides. In the ultimate analysis, is one side really good and the other bad, or is it all just a big Lila? I'd say yes, in the relative, good and bad both exist and I'd rather be on the good side. But is that God's perspective, or just my limited relative viewpoint? Ultimately, isn't it all just God playing all the roles to entertain Himself? Obviously I have more questions than answers. -- My friend's response was that that attitude was a cop-out which allowed people to rationalize all sorts of mischief by gurus and other leaders. Thanks for sharing this-- Its a great piece of writing! I'd agree that good and evil, light and dark, balance each other out in a universal Dharma. All I think we can do is live as simply as possible, with our wits about us, being ourselves. and the more we are simply ourselves, surrendering to our universal nature, with our wits about us, the more easily we can sustain a universal point of perfect personal balance, regardless of what occurs in time and space. Fewer problems both short and long term. See the job, do the job. I agree that it *is* God playing all the roles to entertain Himself, in the lap of Mother Divine.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada--- the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh yogis spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? So, just when DO these groups get around to the massing of huge armies, and exterminating millions? Just curious if you had a ballpark timeframe in mind... Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. I am sure the KGB checks out many, many groups for new ideas-- their whole schtick is manipulation. There's certainly no not invented here prohibition in their ranks. If I were them though, I'd look elsewhere than the TMO.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. And who would that be? OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Comment below: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh yogis spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. **end** Hannah Arendt's books The Origin of Totalitarianism was a very powerful awakening to me of how the TMO and Maharishi operate, albeit (perhaps), unconsciously. The fundamental diagram of the leader at the very center of the movement, with concentric cells of followers around the leader, extending outwards from the font of the ideology to the general public at large, with each level at its own position on the gradient from closer to the leader to farthest away; from the inner circle to John Jane Q. Public. What I really got from it was how the organization of higher levels within the movement allowed the leader to insulate himself (or herself) from the larger, consensual reality that the ideology was prepared to supplant. The first relational dynamic is just the leader and the rest of the world. Once the leader has followers there is a division (to one degree or another) between them and the outside the ideology world. What really got to me was how she described the totalitarian leader's natural organization of levels *within* the new movement and the setting of qualifications/bars to admittance to each new level; each new level or intimacy with the ideology (and/or the leader) requiring not only a greater commitment to the ideology but also a greater rejection of the outside world. In this model those on the outside levels are equally important to the organization, however, because they entirely interface with the greater social reality and function as conduits for resources from the outside world (money, for instance) as well as buffers from that world for those on the inner levels. With the establishment of each new level, Arendt says, the leader demands an increased personal commitment which some percentage cannot muster and so find themselves relegated to a lower, less powerful level (as perceived by the follower) as a new inner circle is created. Fanaticism is selected for and 'bred' into the movement; furthermore, it increasingly becomes the ideal strived for. It matched my experiences of the TMO. (As a total side note and not to draw a parallel with the TMO, Arendt points out how the first SS officers to run the first mobile gas chambers for the elimination of the Jews, were chosen from the very best and intelligent of the military. Their idealism and character was invoked as necessary to do what might be seen as despicable by the outside world; their integrity was needed to be sure that what they did was right and noble. It was a complete conversion of principle to justify unprincipled behavior.) Marek
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
One of the guys sent to find a person in Germany who would become a suitable dictator said as he was allegedly dying in a hospital in Shanghai that the people who run the world are in Tibet or were educated there. But he was a shady character capable of saying anything. One of Hitler's best officers was a straight up kind of guy, and he said, that the evil Being behind Hitler does not live on this planet. But these are not facts. These are things people said without providing a shred of evidence. a off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. And who would that be? OffWorld Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It is better, in your opinion, to strive to be untermensch then? OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the guys sent to find a person in Germany who would become a suitable dictator said as he was allegedly dying in a hospital in Shanghai that the people who run the world are in Tibet or were educated there. But he was a shady character capable of saying anything. One of Hitler's best officers was a straight up kind of guy, and he said, that the evil Being behind Hitler does not live on this planet. But these are not facts. These are things people said without providing a shred of evidence. So you do not believe these things as historical fact, right? OffWorld off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. And who would that be? OffWorld Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Did I say or imply that it's better to strive to be an Untermensch? How did you arrive at that conclusion. I've made no judgment of any kind yet. I'm just comparing two things that seem to me to invite comparison. a off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It is better, in your opinion, to strive to be untermensch then? OffWorld Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Flanegin wrote: My friend's response was that that attitude was a cop-out which allowed people to rationalize all sorts of mischief by gurus and other leaders. Thanks for sharing this-- Its a great piece of writing! I'd agree that good and evil, light and dark, balance each other out in a universal Dharma. All I think we can do is live as simply as possible, with our wits about us, being ourselves. and the more we are simply ourselves, surrendering to our universal nature, with our wits about us, the more easily we can sustain a universal point of perfect personal balance, regardless of what occurs in time and space. Fewer problems both short and long term. See the job, do the job. I agree that it *is* God playing all the roles to entertain Himself, in the lap of Mother Divine. Bronte writes: I never knew it until today, but this is Fascist thinking, Jim! All along I've been saying it's dangerous to surrender your individuality, and all you guys are saying no, it's great. Look at where your philosophy led you: now you are justifying the worst evil in the known history of our race by saying it's just God playing roles to entertain Himself, in the lap of Mother Divine. Angela was right. MMY made his disciples into Nazis. jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you know, the Vedas depict many great demons, such as Ravana, as being extremely charismatic, learned, and highly evolved. In some cases the story is told that the demon had the choice of being born into a series of righteous lives or one demonic life in which they would be killed by the Lord and thus liberated. They chose the demonic life. I don't presume to know the karmic mechanics behind the holocaust. The perpetrators of it, and especially Hitler, certainly seemed evil by all normal standards, but the universe is a strange place. Who can say with certainty where Hitler's soul is now? Is he suffering in hell or was he really some great soul that chose to play a role very distasteful by civilized standards? I would like to think he's suffering in hell, but who really knows? It seems the light and dark forces are always balancing each other out. There need to be great souls on both sides. In the ultimate analysis, is one side really good and the other bad, or is it all just a big Lila? I'd say yes, in the relative, good and bad both exist and I'd rather be on the good side. But is that God's perspective, or just my limited relative viewpoint? Ultimately, isn't it all just God playing all the roles to entertain Himself? Obviously I have more questions than answers. -- My friend's response was that that attitude was a cop-out which allowed people to rationalize all sorts of mischief by gurus and other leaders. Thanks for sharing this-- Its a great piece of writing! I'd agree that good and evil, light and dark, balance each other out in a universal Dharma. All I think we can do is live as simply as possible, with our wits about us, being ourselves. and the more we are simply ourselves, surrendering to our universal nature, with our wits about us, the more easily we can sustain a universal point of perfect personal balance, regardless of what occurs in time and space. Fewer problems both short and long term. See the job, do the job. I agree that it *is* God playing all the roles to entertain Himself, in the lap of Mother Divine. - Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
I have seen no real evidence that there are off-world beings. So I do not believe or disbelieve their existence. This is not a question of belief, but a question of fact. Until there is credible evidence, I will keep an open mind on the question. That the people I mentioned said what they said is a historical fact. But I have no way of judging the substance of what they said to be either true or false. The dude that said the world was ruled from Tibet went on an expedition there to deliver a radio to the Dali Lama so that he and Hitler could have daily chats. That's a historical fact. a off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of the guys sent to find a person in Germany who would become a suitable dictator said as he was allegedly dying in a hospital in Shanghai that the people who run the world are in Tibet or were educated there. But he was a shady character capable of saying anything. One of Hitler's best officers was a straight up kind of guy, and he said, that the evil Being behind Hitler does not live on this planet. But these are not facts. These are things people said without providing a shred of evidence. So you do not believe these things as historical fact, right? OffWorld off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. And who would that be? OffWorld Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Flanegin wrote: My friend's response was that that attitude was a cop-out which allowed people to rationalize all sorts of mischief by gurus and other leaders. Thanks for sharing this-- Its a great piece of writing! I'd agree that good and evil, light and dark, balance each other out in a universal Dharma. All I think we can do is live as simply as possible, with our wits about us, being ourselves. and the more we are simply ourselves, surrendering to our universal nature, with our wits about us, the more easily we can sustain a universal point of perfect personal balance, regardless of what occurs in time and space. Fewer problems both short and long term. See the job, do the job. I agree that it *is* God playing all the roles to entertain Himself, in the lap of Mother Divine. Bronte writes: I never knew it until today, but this is Fascist thinking, Jim! All along I've been saying it's dangerous to surrender your individuality, and all you guys are saying no, it's great. Look at where your philosophy led you: now you are justifying the worst evil in the known history of our race by saying it's just God playing roles to entertain Himself, in the lap of Mother Divine. Angela was right. MMY made his disciples into Nazis. jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you know, the Vedas depict many great demons, such as Ravana, as being extremely charismatic, learned, and highly evolved. In some cases the story is told that the demon had the choice of being born into a series of righteous lives or one demonic life in which they would be killed by the Lord and thus liberated. They chose the demonic life. I don't presume to know the karmic mechanics behind the holocaust. The perpetrators of it, and especially Hitler, certainly seemed evil by all normal standards, but the universe is a strange place. Who can say with certainty where Hitler's soul is now? Is he suffering in hell or was he really some great soul that chose to play a role very distasteful by civilized standards? I would like to think he's suffering in hell, but who really knows? It seems the light and dark forces are always balancing each other out. There need to be great souls on both sides. In the ultimate analysis, is one side really good and the other bad, or is it all just a big Lila? I'd say yes, in the relative, good and bad both exist and I'd rather be on the good side. But is that God's perspective, or just my limited relative viewpoint? Ultimately, isn't it all just God playing all the roles to entertain Himself? Obviously I have more questions than answers. -- My friend's response was that that attitude was a cop-out which allowed people to rationalize all sorts of mischief by gurus and other leaders. Thanks for sharing this-- Its a great piece of writing! I'd agree that good and evil, light and dark, balance each other out in a universal Dharma. All I think we can do is live as simply as possible, with our wits about us, being ourselves. and the more we are simply ourselves, surrendering to our universal nature, with our wits about us, the more easily we can sustain a universal point of perfect personal balance, regardless of what occurs in time and space. Fewer problems both short and long term. See the job, do the job. I agree that it *is* God playing all the roles to entertain Himself, in the lap of Mother Divine. - Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did I say or imply that it's better to strive to be an Untermensch? How did you arrive at that conclusion. I've made no judgment of any kind yet. I'm just comparing two things that seem to me to invite comparison. Hidden in your comparison is an obvious negative connotation, no? Correct me if I'm wrong, but comparing anyone to Hitler in the modern era is not a positive assessment. Just because someone teaches that people may want to better themselves in any way (ie. evolve) does not mean they are like the Nazis. Your comparison appears to be aimed at suggesting that any group who says: Let's be better, than the past humans must be potential murderous Nazis. Making comparisons to Nazis brings a whole bunch of baggage with it, and you knew that when you posted it..no? Or perhaps you just mean that many groups look to better themselves and the world, and in addition some turn nasty, like the Nazis. If you use your logic (also implied by the juxtaposition of the question to which you were answering from another poster) you would call the Quakers Nazis, and the Buddhists. OffWorld off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? As for your other question, Are there significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh's spiritual movement, I'd say definitely there are. Name any article of faith you find repeated in this town, name any of the often repeated quotes of things Mahesh is supposed to have said, and it was repeated and believed in Nazi Germany. They didn't call it enlightenment, but they were all striving to be the Ubermensch. It is better, in your opinion, to strive to be untermensch then? OffWorld Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Angela was right. MMY made his disciples into Nazis. Have you ever read anything about the Nazis? Do you know who they were, and what they did?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have seen no real evidence that there are off-world beings. So I do not believe or disbelieve their existence. This is not a question of belief, but a question of fact. Until there is credible evidence, I will keep an open mind on the question. That the people I mentioned said what they said is a historical fact. Yes, I was about to mention that I am an off_world_being, and you have no way of judging the substance of what I say to be either true or false. But I have no way of judging the substance of what they said to be either true or false. The dude that said the world was ruled from Tibet went on an expedition there to deliver a radio to the Dali Lama so that he and Hitler could have daily chats. That's a historical fact. You lost me there, but your language suggests you know no more about the Nazis than the rest of us, just because you come from Germany. However, it is an interesting idea that you bring up, but may have more to do with the Masonic tradition than the Tibetan, since both sides of WWII were funded by the Rothchilds (and by GW Bush's grandfather) But thanks for spicing up FFL, because it has been seriously tedious for a few weeks round here. OffWorld off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: One of the guys sent to find a person in Germany who would become a suitable dictator said as he was allegedly dying in a hospital in Shanghai that the people who run the world are in Tibet or were educated there. But he was a shady character capable of saying anything. One of Hitler's best officers was a straight up kind of guy, and he said, that the evil Being behind Hitler does not live on this planet. But these are not facts. These are things people said without providing a shred of evidence. So you do not believe these things as historical fact, right? OffWorld off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. And who would that be? OffWorld Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Flanegin wrote: My friend's response was that that attitude was a cop-out which allowed people to rationalize all sorts of mischief by gurus and other leaders. Thanks for sharing this-- Its a great piece of writing! I'd agree that good and evil, light and dark, balance each other out in a universal Dharma. All I think we can do is live as simply as possible, with our wits about us, being ourselves. and the more we are simply ourselves, surrendering to our universal nature, with our wits about us, the more easily we can sustain a universal point of perfect personal balance, regardless of what occurs in time and space. Fewer problems both short and long term. See the job, do the job. I agree that it *is* God playing all the roles to entertain Himself, in the lap of Mother Divine. Bronte writes: I never knew it until today, but this is Fascist thinking, Jim! snip.. Angela was right. MMY made his disciples into Nazis. You are either insane or lacking perception (which is also called 'stupid'). When is the last time MMY told his followers to take up arms and kill people? Next you'll be condeming the Quakers, the Buddhists, and Jesus for wanting a better world. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 7:47 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: I have no idea what you mean when you say, And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? Are these same Nazi-esque ideas from the TMO and Mahesian Reich being seen in even (presumably independent and autonomous) movement- derived Neoadvaita satsangs like the FF satsang you have attended? Perhaps not, but Nazi-like falsifications of the facts have been clearly seen in Vaj's postings over the years. OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
To the question who are they and how do I know it: Briefly the way Hitler got made was this: Two guys show up in Munich, both with a long string of aliases and both of them from abroad. Nobody knows where they got their money, historians have looked and haven't been able to figure it out. One of these two guys was hanging out with an agent of the Pope in New York City prior to showing up in Germany. The two of them start a society with a decidedly New Age flavor. They teach meditation and advanced courses. All secret. They attract people from the upper echelons of society with money, but also working class types. When teaching the advanced courses, however, they prefer the folks with money. And they say that they're looking for a dictator. Hitler joins them, and, pretty soon, the two guys think they've got their man. They initiate him into higher teachings, they buy him new clothes, they correct his pronunciation, and they introduce him to the upper levels of society through those rich members they've also initiated into higher teachings. They teach him mass psychology and coach him in public speaking. They tell him he's the chosen one to create the New World Order. Then they start a political party, and now the money starts to flow. When you trace it, most of it comes from Wall Street, but some of it comes from France and from England. I.G. Farben, a local money source, is in a position to give money because American corporations have helped them into that position. Once the party is showing signs of success, the two guys dissolve the society. One of them vanished. The other one works directly for Hitler. The Vatican tells all Catholic priests in Germany to tell their congregations to vote for Hitler, and by some magical and cosmic coincidence, the agent of the Pope in New York City becomes Hitler's second in command. Hitler never gets the popular vote in spite of the Catholic vote, but there are always the back stairs, and Prescott Bush hires about 300,000 Blackwater types to crush opposition against Hitler in Germany. Who sent the two guys? Beats the hell outa me, though I suspect the Vatican had something to do with it. How do I know? Historical research. My bibliography is about 25 pages long at this point. Where would I begin to tell you? a Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Comment below: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada---the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh yogis spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. **end** Hannah Arendt's books The Origin of Totalitarianism was a very powerful awakening to me of how the TMO and Maharishi operate, albeit (perhaps), unconsciously. The fundamental diagram of the leader at the very center of the movement, with concentric cells of followers around the leader, extending outwards from the font of the ideology to the general public at large, with each level at its own position on the gradient from closer to the leader to farthest away; from the inner circle to John Jane Q. Public. What I really got from it was how the organization of higher levels within the movement allowed the leader to insulate himself (or herself) from the larger, consensual reality that the ideology was prepared to supplant. The first relational dynamic is just the leader and the rest of the world. Once the leader has followers there is a division (to one degree or another) between them and the outside the ideology world. What really got to me was how she described the totalitarian leader's natural organization of levels *within* the new movement and the setting of qualifications/bars to admittance to each new level;
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To the question who are they and how do I know it: Briefly the way Hitler got made was this: Two guys show up in Munich, both with a long string of aliases and both of them from abroad. Nobody knows where they got their money, historians have looked and haven't been able to figure it out. One of these two guys was hanging out with an agent of the Pope in New York City prior to showing up in Germany. The two of them start a society with a decidedly New Age flavor. They teach meditation and advanced courses. All secret. They attract people from the upper echelons of society with money, but also working class types. When teaching the advanced courses, however, they prefer the folks with money. And they say that they're looking for a dictator. Hitler joins them, and, pretty soon, the two guys think they've got their man. They initiate him into higher teachings, they buy him new clothes, they correct his pronunciation, and they introduce him to the upper levels of society through those rich members they've also initiated into higher teachings. They teach him mass psychology and coach him in public speaking. They tell him he's the chosen one to create the New World Order. Then they start a political party, and now the money starts to flow. When you trace it, most of it comes from Wall Street, but some of it comes from France and from England. I.G. Farben, a local money source, is in a position to give money because American corporations have helped them into that position. Once the party is showing signs of success, the two guys dissolve the society. One of them vanished. The other one works directly for Hitler. The Vatican tells all Catholic priests in Germany to tell their congregations to vote for Hitler, and by some magical and cosmic coincidence, the agent of the Pope in New York City becomes Hitler's second in command. Hitler never gets the popular vote in spite of the Catholic vote, but there are always the back stairs, and Prescott Bush hires about 300,000 Blackwater types to crush opposition against Hitler in Germany. Who sent the two guys? Beats the hell outa me, though I suspect the Vatican had something to do with it. How do I know? Historical research. My bibliography is about 25 pages long at this point. Where would I begin to tell you? The best bet it is to start by naming to us the credible sources in your bibliography of 25 pages...and Wikipedia, Richard Hoagland, and Eric Von Danichen better not be amongst them ;-) OffWorld Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Comment below: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Oct 14, 2007, at 6:06 PM, Angela Mailander wrote: Yes, I totally agree. Hitler was used by those who still want to establish the New World Order. In fact, he was told in those exact terms, New World Order, that he would be instrumental in establishing it. He wasn't told that he'd only be a step along the way, though. He believed he was to be the big enchilada--- the thousand-year Reich was to be sat-yuga. The antisemitism was not real in the same sense that the terrorists we're all afraid of today are not real. Hitler needed a single enemy to focus the people's attention on. There is even some evidence that Jews supplied him with the notion that they could be that single enemy. It's not conclusive evidence, but certainly the Warburgs were involved in it, in spite of the fact that Paul Warburg lost two close relatives in the death camps. a Are there really significant parallels between the Third Reich and Mahesh yogis spiritual movement though? And are these same ideas being cloned onto splinter satsang groups? Rick posted a very interesting link to a video which purported to be by an ex-KGB agent which claimed groups like the KGB were observing the TMO for ideas in undermining nations. **end** Hannah Arendt's books The Origin of Totalitarianism was a very powerful awakening to me of how the TMO and Maharishi operate, albeit (perhaps), unconsciously. The fundamental diagram of the leader at the very center of the movement, with concentric cells of followers around the leader, extending outwards from the font of the ideology to the general public at large, with each level at its own position on the gradient from closer to the leader to farthest away; from the inner circle to John Jane Q. Public. What I really got from it was how the organization of higher levels within the movement allowed the leader to insulate himself (or herself) from the larger, consensual reality that the ideology was prepared to supplant. The first relational dynamic is just the leader and
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Flanegin wrote: My friend's response was that that attitude was a cop-out which allowed people to rationalize all sorts of mischief by gurus and other leaders. Thanks for sharing this-- Its a great piece of writing! I'd agree that good and evil, light and dark, balance each other out in a universal Dharma. All I think we can do is live as simply as possible, with our wits about us, being ourselves. and the more we are simply ourselves, surrendering to our universal nature, with our wits about us, the more easily we can sustain a universal point of perfect personal balance, regardless of what occurs in time and space. Fewer problems both short and long term. See the job, do the job. I agree that it *is* God playing all the roles to entertain Himself, in the lap of Mother Divine. Bronte writes: I never knew it until today, but this is Fascist thinking, Jim! yours or mine? All along I've been saying it's dangerous to surrender your individuality, and all you guys are saying no, it's great. Look at where your philosophy led you: now you are justifying the worst evil in the known history of our race by saying it's just God playing roles to entertain Himself, in the lap of Mother Divine. Angela was right. MMY made his disciples into Nazis. I had already replied to Vaj that I thought Hitler committed unspeakable attrocities. You have written here about everything being God. How do you reconcile Hitler's actions as a part of God's Creation? And do you think reconciling the two is a tacit approval of Hitler? I don't.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
Atrocities are very possible when you believe that a) you are not the doer, b) it's all an illusion anyway, c) the atrocities are committed as a means to heaven on earth for a thousand years, and d) death is not real. a jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Flanegin wrote: My friend's response was that that attitude was a cop-out which allowed people to rationalize all sorts of mischief by gurus and other leaders. Thanks for sharing this-- Its a great piece of writing! I'd agree that good and evil, light and dark, balance each other out in a universal Dharma. All I think we can do is live as simply as possible, with our wits about us, being ourselves. and the more we are simply ourselves, surrendering to our universal nature, with our wits about us, the more easily we can sustain a universal point of perfect personal balance, regardless of what occurs in time and space. Fewer problems both short and long term. See the job, do the job. I agree that it *is* God playing all the roles to entertain Himself, in the lap of Mother Divine. Bronte writes: I never knew it until today, but this is Fascist thinking, Jim! yours or mine? All along I've been saying it's dangerous to surrender your individuality, and all you guys are saying no, it's great. Look at where your philosophy led you: now you are justifying the worst evil in the known history of our race by saying it's just God playing roles to entertain Himself, in the lap of Mother Divine. Angela was right. MMY made his disciples into Nazis. I had already replied to Vaj that I thought Hitler committed unspeakable attrocities. You have written here about everything being God. How do you reconcile Hitler's actions as a part of God's Creation? And do you think reconciling the two is a tacit approval of Hitler? I don't. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mahesh and Hitler
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Atrocities are very possible when you believe that a) you are not the doer, b) it's all an illusion anyway, c) the atrocities are committed as a means to heaven on earth for a thousand years, and d) death is not real. a I think in order to commit attrocities, there has to be a fundamental lack of empathy for our fellow human beings, and I've heard that called sociopathy. Whatever else the sociopath uses as justification for hurting and killing others is just rationalizing this basic lack of empathy for others. It doesn't follow at all thnat if we are experiencing a), b) and d) above, that we are therefore capable of comitting attrocities. As for c), that sounds psychotic.
