Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Tom. I havent' read many startrek novels, just the ones the braille library had done over here, but Peter davids' books were mostly awsome (I wasn't as taken with Q in law, but the others were great). Having Captain Picard attempting to get winny the poo and tigger off the bridge was particularly hillarious! :D. As to games, I admit I'd forgotten about the conduit going boom, but then again i only saw that episode of Voyager the once, actually a couple of years ago when i got the hole 7 seasons on dvd (I probably ought to watch them again). That being said, I'm not really keen on a wormhole, which was one reason i suggested trans warp technology, afterall it's pretty much the entire plot for Ds9, as well as various other episodes, and it's not as if there aren't other ways to introduce a new alien race into a game to be a military threat. maybe an experiment went wrong and opened a path into Fluidic space, thus allowing species 8472 access to the alpha quadrent, or maybe one of the Q decided to stir things up again. I actually like the Q idea, sinse the Klingons and Herogen have several aspects in common and it'd be just like one of the Q to want to see what happened if you put the two together. heck, even Voyagers' reaching the delta quadrent wasn't just a case of passing through the wrong wormhole being due to the caretaker. As to when to set the game, I must admit much as I love the tng series, I'd personally like to see what happens later, even if in a none cannon game. Setting things after the events of the dominion war also means you can have the plot alter according to what you want in the game as well. for instance, the possibility of a factionalized romulan empire, with some stil upholding the alliance, and some out and out enemies could make for some extremely interesting missions. Perhaps the cardassians, desperate after their major defeat at the end of the dominion war are now applying for membership in the federation, but perhaps some Klingon military commands that took cardassian outposts are loathed to relinquish them, thus creating severe tentions betwene the Federation and the Klingon Empire. these are just some ways a plot could go, and all have possibilities for creating missions. yes, it would involve writing some extra startrek plot, but in a lot of ways that would be another advantage in such a game. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi Dark, Yeah, the constant rivalry between Quark and Odo could get amusing at times. Odo always considered Quark public enemy number one, and it was funny to see Quark always getting blamed for things he didn't do. Although, with Quark you could never tell, because he was a Ferengi out for profit and was constantly scheming even when he was technically within the law. I don't know if you have ever read the Deep Space 9 book Fallen Heroes, but there is some pretty amusing scenes in there between Quark and Odo. Although, it was necessary for that book, because it was pretty darn grim. Quark and Odo are sent three days into the future where upon they discover the entire crew of Deep Space 9 was murdered by an alien race from the Gamma Quadrant. Quark and Odo must find a way to return to the past and prevent the slaughter from taking place. Its a great book. As for the book where the Ferengi captain got assimilated by the Borg that was Vendetta by Peter David. That was truly a warped book, but there were some pretty funny scenes in that book. The most memorable that comes to mind is how the Ferengi captain ended up getting assimilated in the first place. He decides he wants to open trade with the Borg so he beams over the lead Borg cube. The Borg take him before the ships hive mind, the unimind, and the Borg tell him what they are going to do. I love his response. You talked about what you want, but what about what I want? The Borg replies, you are irrelevant. I seriously laughed my rear off when I heard that. Peter David often has a sense of humor when writing his Star Trek books and his books can really be funny if a bit bizarre at times. Although, Q Squared is probably the most bizarre and warped book the guy has ever written. As far as a game goes I'd have to think about it. I'm not so sure just any race can move in and take over a transwarp conduit given that some Borg would have survived the battle in End Game. In fact, I'm pretty sure what Janeway and Voyager did was only to a single hive or branch of the Borg Collective and there are probably other queens and hives elsewhere in the galaxy uneffected. At any rate the transwarp conduit Voyager used no longer exists. If you remember as they cleared the conduit Voyager fired several photons back into the conduit which not only closed it but I believe
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Tom, Didn't you say that you had done a trek 2000 mod and that if anyone asked for it you would send it along? Well if I may put in a request... you have my email offlist as well so if you could send me a link it would be much appreciated. Thanks, Ben. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 15 January 2012 01:25 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi Michael, Yeah, I see your point regarding Star Trek Armada I and Star Trek Armada II, and I agree the technical aspects of both were way off. Although, I haven't had much experience with them as I had already lost my sight by the time they were released. However, part of my interest in developing a game from the perspective of the TNG era would be because Next Generation is still my favorite Star Trek series. I never really liked Deep Space 9 all that well, and while I liked Voyager well enough its still not the same as Next Generation. Therefore from a fan perspective I'd personally like to see something done that is from the perspective of Next Generation. As to the huge fleet engagements etc you are talking about that would make sense were I thinking of a full real time strategy game, but as I've said I'm thinking of a starship symulation with a single ship rather than a fleet. That could be set in any era of my choice be it Next Generation, Deep Space 9, Voyager, or after. I haven't decided on an exact timeline yet as I've got several other irons in the fire. However, if I did set it in that four year time period between Deep Space 9 and Star Trek Nemesis that would open up a lot of possibilities in terms of types of ship. We can use a Sovereign-Class Battle Cruiser like Enter;prise E or a smaller Escort ship like a Defiant-Class ship. We could use an Intrepid-Class Explorer like Voyager, or even invent a new class outright. Its got possibilities. Cheers! On 1/14/12, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Thomas, You made some good points story whise for a Star Trek game. But, if we look at the mainstream Trek games, we have for example the two strathegy games Star Trek Armada and Armada II. Both are games with plots placed around the sixth and seventh seasons of Voyager. However, after the end of Deep Space Nine we don't get as much story of the Alpha quadrant. We see the Briar Patch in Star Trek Insurrection and we see Voyager return home and in Nemesis we see Janeway as the Admiral who contacts Enterprise E because the Romulan situation starts up. But theese are just small moments Timeline whise from the end of DS9 to Nemesis it is over four years which are unexplored in canon. I am not into the books, so anything that might happen in them is unknown to me. But the point is, that the mainstream games (e.G. the Armada titles) happen near the end of voyager and even if you discount the Delta Quadrant tech shown in Voyager, the mainstream games are really not up to the tech standards. I'll give you a few examples. The Armada series has no real warp drive in the form that you have a big map where you engage warp and navigate trough the map and drop out at your destination. Second, the techtree in the games is not entirely accourate, because the weapons in both games are either badly designed, too limited or unrealistic. For example, every one knows that Defiant and Enterprise E fire Quantum Torpedos, but this weapon is not in the game directly, but a relatively weak upgrade you have to research. Second, Species 8472 has a (in Armada II) has a weapon capable of destroying planets (Scorpion Part I), but in the game, the damage value is too low, and even then it is technically useless, because planets cannot be destroyed in the ggame. Next, the Omega Particle shown also in the game is nothing of the destructive force it is told to be. And finally the borg ships are limited in their capabilities. Whether the borg have more ships besides spheres and cubes is not the ppoint, but every known borg ship is capable of entering transwarp conduits and theese are no damn wormholes! If we get our own Star Trek game, then it should be not limited to the main (canon) TNG era, but should go up to the contents of Unimatrix Zero and Endgame. I'd like to be capable of destroying a transwarp hub myself for once, or to fight a borg cube to find out that it contained a sphere which launches when the cube explodes (seen in First Contact), or to recreate the battle in DS9's Tears of the Prophets with hopefully proper sounds in real time... Something which no mainstream Trek game offers, because the game is too limited to handle lots of ships on a map, because the game isn't capable of handling a really large mass of fired torpedos at the same time, or because the game doesn't have a large ship selection for free campaign less battles. Even Star Trek
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
I forgot something, something not talked about in canon Star Trek (TV shows and movies) and that is quantum slipstream, shown only in the season four finale of Voyager and another episode in the fifth season. That would technically still be wormhole like in Armada and Armada II, allthough user created mods exist, you cannot realice them, because all wormhole objects in the games are jump points, where you are at point a, select your point b and jump to it. And this kind of tech is allways a special weapon, meaning that it is not standard. And if we are talking about a ship simulator, then we should do something like Bridge commander, but then it should be possible to allow the users to create their own ship modifications, at least for a free battle mode. You still could create campaign missions and expand your game after initial release with new missions and put something in like the quickbattle of Bridge Commander. Or you could give users access to more aspects of your game. Remember Star Trek Eliteforce and Elite Force II? Both were based on Quake 3, and besides mission scripting the user could create their own maps and could also alter some more things like game menus and weapons if you had the source code to several compiled files you were allowed to recompile, since you did not alter the main EXE files. The Armada titles allowed you to create multiplayer and singleplayer maps, but no missions (scripted missions), and I am not sure if Legacy allows it either. The only thing I know is that most Legacy fans are encouraged to download an over 1 GB big universal Legacy modification called Legacy Ultimate Universe to add more game modes, more ships, improoved models/textures, better music and sounds, before gameply becomes worthwhile, according to fans... In either case, if we go for a ship sim, we should have it as open as possible, even if it is not open in mission mode, but I'd like the idea of creating my own missions... If we were going for strathegy, then I'd say not to hold back when it comes to non scripted maps where it's free for all as you like. Even if Dauntless was not a federation ship, I'd like to use her, or to be able to command the ship of the borg queen for once in an accessible game... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
And even if you wouldn't use canon, you could go into the fictional universe of Star Trek Hidden Frontier, the biggest fan film universe with several movie lenght episodes and several fan shows linked together. Or do you think it wouldn't be totally impossible to solve Voyagers slipstream problems with alien tech after Nemesis? And back to voyager and the Borg: No one knows if the borg do have several queens active at any given time. Yes, the cube atempting the second invasion had its queen, but the moment the sphere traveled back in time the queen's link to the present day collective was cut, otherwhise there would have been more Borg coming. Also, she was killed in the past and only her remaining drones aboard Enterprise E were destroyed... I still wonder, why the Borg gave Janeway Seven Of Nine as a second Locutus when she made the alliance and why the queen was not shown there. But if I am right, Janeway destroyed the queen more than once, however I am not sure. In Dark Frontier, Part II, Janeway was in the Unicomplex and left with Seven. However a ship followed and it was not a cube. It was destroyed when Voyager fired at the transwarp conduit. It is not entirely certain if the queen was aboard it... In Unimatrix Zero the queen should have been aboard a tactical cube under attack by Voyager and a sphere under the control of unimatrix zero. The queen ordered the self destruct of that cube and if she was aboard, she should have been destroyed again... And the future Janeway let herself being assimilated, so her virus would infect the queen, so that Voyager could destroy the transwarp hub and fly home, but it is not entirely clear, if the unicomplex, not located in the nebula where the hub was, was destroyed . Fact is, the hub and 47 borg ships in the nebula were destroyed... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Ben, He actually posted it on list several days ago. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Ben Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:01 AM To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi Tom, Didn't you say that you had done a trek 2000 mod and that if anyone asked for it you would send it along? Well if I may put in a request... you have my email offlist as well so if you could send me a link it would be much appreciated. Thanks, Ben. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 15 January 2012 01:25 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi Michael, Yeah, I see your point regarding Star Trek Armada I and Star Trek Armada II, and I agree the technical aspects of both were way off. Although, I haven't had much experience with them as I had already lost my sight by the time they were released. However, part of my interest in developing a game from the perspective of the TNG era would be because Next Generation is still my favorite Star Trek series. I never really liked Deep Space 9 all that well, and while I liked Voyager well enough its still not the same as Next Generation. Therefore from a fan perspective I'd personally like to see something done that is from the perspective of Next Generation. As to the huge fleet engagements etc you are talking about that would make sense were I thinking of a full real time strategy game, but as I've said I'm thinking of a starship symulation with a single ship rather than a fleet. That could be set in any era of my choice be it Next Generation, Deep Space 9, Voyager, or after. I haven't decided on an exact timeline yet as I've got several other irons in the fire. However, if I did set it in that four year time period between Deep Space 9 and Star Trek Nemesis that would open up a lot of possibilities in terms of types of ship. We can use a Sovereign-Class Battle Cruiser like Enter;prise E or a smaller Escort ship like a Defiant-Class ship. We could use an Intrepid-Class Explorer like Voyager, or even invent a new class outright. Its got possibilities. Cheers! On 1/14/12, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Thomas, You made some good points story whise for a Star Trek game. But, if we look at the mainstream Trek games, we have for example the two strathegy games Star Trek Armada and Armada II. Both are games with plots placed around the sixth and seventh seasons of Voyager. However, after the end of Deep Space Nine we don't get as much story of the Alpha quadrant. We see the Briar Patch in Star Trek Insurrection and we see Voyager return home and in Nemesis we see Janeway as the Admiral who contacts Enterprise E because the Romulan situation starts up. But theese are just small moments Timeline whise from the end of DS9 to Nemesis it is over four years which are unexplored in canon. I am not into the books, so anything that might happen in them is unknown to me. But the point is, that the mainstream games (e.G. the Armada titles) happen near the end of voyager and even if you discount the Delta Quadrant tech shown in Voyager, the mainstream games are really not up to the tech standards. I'll give you a few examples. The Armada series has no real warp drive in the form that you have a big map where you engage warp and navigate trough the map and drop out at your destination. Second, the techtree in the games is not entirely accourate, because the weapons in both games are either badly designed, too limited or unrealistic. For example, every one knows that Defiant and Enterprise E fire Quantum Torpedos, but this weapon is not in the game directly, but a relatively weak upgrade you have to research. Second, Species 8472 has a (in Armada II) has a weapon capable of destroying planets (Scorpion Part I), but in the game, the damage value is too low, and even then it is technically useless, because planets cannot be destroyed in the ggame. Next, the Omega Particle shown also in the game is nothing of the destructive force it is told to be. And finally the borg ships are limited in their capabilities. Whether the borg have more ships besides spheres and cubes is not the ppoint, but every known borg ship is capable of entering transwarp conduits and theese are no damn wormholes! If we get our own Star Trek game, then it should be not limited to the main (canon) TNG era, but should go up to the contents of Unimatrix Zero and Endgame. I'd like to be capable of destroying a transwarp hub myself for once, or to fight a borg cube to find out that it contained a sphere which launches when the cube explodes (seen in First Contact), or to recreate the battle in DS9's Tears of the Prophets with hopefully proper sounds in real time... Something which
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Thanks, just had a look but can't find it... I have far to many emails to trawl through at the moment as well, making this a lot harder... lol -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Hayden Presley Sent: 15 January 2012 18:53 To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Ben, He actually posted it on list several days ago. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Ben Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:01 AM To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi Tom, Didn't you say that you had done a trek 2000 mod and that if anyone asked for it you would send it along? Well if I may put in a request... you have my email offlist as well so if you could send me a link it would be much appreciated. Thanks, Ben. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 15 January 2012 01:25 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi Michael, Yeah, I see your point regarding Star Trek Armada I and Star Trek Armada II, and I agree the technical aspects of both were way off. Although, I haven't had much experience with them as I had already lost my sight by the time they were released. However, part of my interest in developing a game from the perspective of the TNG era would be because Next Generation is still my favorite Star Trek series. I never really liked Deep Space 9 all that well, and while I liked Voyager well enough its still not the same as Next Generation. Therefore from a fan perspective I'd personally like to see something done that is from the perspective of Next Generation. As to the huge fleet engagements etc you are talking about that would make sense were I thinking of a full real time strategy game, but as I've said I'm thinking of a starship symulation with a single ship rather than a fleet. That could be set in any era of my choice be it Next Generation, Deep Space 9, Voyager, or after. I haven't decided on an exact timeline yet as I've got several other irons in the fire. However, if I did set it in that four year time period between Deep Space 9 and Star Trek Nemesis that would open up a lot of possibilities in terms of types of ship. We can use a Sovereign-Class Battle Cruiser like Enter;prise E or a smaller Escort ship like a Defiant-Class ship. We could use an Intrepid-Class Explorer like Voyager, or even invent a new class outright. Its got possibilities. Cheers! On 1/14/12, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Thomas, You made some good points story whise for a Star Trek game. But, if we look at the mainstream Trek games, we have for example the two strathegy games Star Trek Armada and Armada II. Both are games with plots placed around the sixth and seventh seasons of Voyager. However, after the end of Deep Space Nine we don't get as much story of the Alpha quadrant. We see the Briar Patch in Star Trek Insurrection and we see Voyager return home and in Nemesis we see Janeway as the Admiral who contacts Enterprise E because the Romulan situation starts up. But theese are just small moments Timeline whise from the end of DS9 to Nemesis it is over four years which are unexplored in canon. I am not into the books, so anything that might happen in them is unknown to me. But the point is, that the mainstream games (e.G. the Armada titles) happen near the end of voyager and even if you discount the Delta Quadrant tech shown in Voyager, the mainstream games are really not up to the tech standards. I'll give you a few examples. The Armada series has no real warp drive in the form that you have a big map where you engage warp and navigate trough the map and drop out at your destination. Second, the techtree in the games is not entirely accourate, because the weapons in both games are either badly designed, too limited or unrealistic. For example, every one knows that Defiant and Enterprise E fire Quantum Torpedos, but this weapon is not in the game directly, but a relatively weak upgrade you have to research. Second, Species 8472 has a (in Armada II) has a weapon capable of destroying planets (Scorpion Part I), but in the game, the damage value is too low, and even then it is technically useless, because planets cannot be destroyed in the ggame. Next, the Omega Particle shown also in the game is nothing of the destructive force it is told to be. And finally the borg ships are limited in their capabilities. Whether the borg have more ships besides spheres and cubes is not the ppoint, but every known borg ship is capable of entering transwarp conduits and theese are no damn wormholes! If we get our own Star Trek game, then it should be not limited to the main (canon) TNG era, but should go
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
I would really love an accessible bridge commander ish kind of game. What comes pretty close is begin. Though that's a text game, it is oriented on a singl ship, with the possibility of ordering ally's around as well. It works rather like Bridge commander's quick battle. You select the rase you want to be with, the race of your enemies, then you can set up the field with room for up to 50 ships, with each ahving differences. The races not only determin what ships are available but also may change how well other Captains follow your orders, since, for instance, Orions being pirates are far more likely to disregard what you say. Once I set up myself and a fleet of 3 other ships against a couple klingons and a starbase. The ladder is just massive with 5000 of them and inormous power generation and shielding... But the only weapon being 8 disruptor banks, which if fired at once are devastating but it's easy to stay out of range and torpedo the thing to a life support failure. Well, one of my ships, for some reason flew right passed it... It promptly lost its shielding, and 3 turns later, life support. So it caried on o n its last heading at warp 5, away from the battle... While I thought it was very sad, it also made me realize just how realistic this game actually is. On 2012-01-15 15:32, Michael Gauler wrote: I forgot something, something not talked about in canon Star Trek (TV shows and movies) and that is quantum slipstream, shown only in the season four finale of Voyager and another episode in the fifth season. That would technically still be wormhole like in Armada and Armada II, allthough user created mods exist, you cannot realice them, because all wormhole objects in the games are jump points, where you are at point a, select your point b and jump to it. And this kind of tech is allways a special weapon, meaning that it is not standard. And if we are talking about a ship simulator, then we should do something like Bridge commander, but then it should be possible to allow the users to create their own ship modifications, at least for a free battle mode. You still could create campaign missions and expand your game after initial release with new missions and put something in like the quickbattle of Bridge Commander. Or you could give users access to more aspects of your game. Remember Star Trek Eliteforce and Elite Force II? Both were based on Quake 3, and besides mission scripting the user could create their own maps and could also alter some more things like game menus and weapons if you had the source code to several compiled files you were allowed to recompile, since you did not alter the main EXE files. The Armada titles allowed you to create multiplayer and singleplayer maps, but no missions (scripted missions), and I am not sure if Legacy allows it either. The only thing I know is that most Legacy fans are encouraged to download an over 1 GB big universal Legacy modification called Legacy Ultimate Universe to add more game modes, more ships, improoved models/textures, better music and sounds, before gameply becomes worthwhile, according to fans... In either case, if we go for a ship sim, we should have it as open as possible, even if it is not open in mission mode, but I'd like the idea of creating my own missions... If we were going for strathegy, then I'd say not to hold back when it comes to non scripted maps where it's free for all as you like. Even if Dauntless was not a federation ship, I'd like to use her, or to be able to command the ship of the borg queen for once in an accessible game... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Could you give a link to that game? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Pitermach Sent: 15 January 2012 19:38 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle I would really love an accessible bridge commander ish kind of game. What comes pretty close is begin. Though that's a text game, it is oriented on a singl ship, with the possibility of ordering ally's around as well. It works rather like Bridge commander's quick battle. You select the rase you want to be with, the race of your enemies, then you can set up the field with room for up to 50 ships, with each ahving differences. The races not only determin what ships are available but also may change how well other Captains follow your orders, since, for instance, Orions being pirates are far more likely to disregard what you say. Once I set up myself and a fleet of 3 other ships against a couple klingons and a starbase. The ladder is just massive with 5000 of them and inormous power generation and shielding... But the only weapon being 8 disruptor banks, which if fired at once are devastating but it's easy to stay out of range and torpedo the thing to a life support failure. Well, one of my ships, for some reason flew right passed it... It promptly lost its shielding, and 3 turns later, life support. So it caried on o n its last heading at warp 5, away from the battle... While I thought it was very sad, it also made me realize just how realistic this game actually is. On 2012-01-15 15:32, Michael Gauler wrote: I forgot something, something not talked about in canon Star Trek (TV shows and movies) and that is quantum slipstream, shown only in the season four finale of Voyager and another episode in the fifth season. That would technically still be wormhole like in Armada and Armada II, allthough user created mods exist, you cannot realice them, because all wormhole objects in the games are jump points, where you are at point a, select your point b and jump to it. And this kind of tech is allways a special weapon, meaning that it is not standard. And if we are talking about a ship simulator, then we should do something like Bridge commander, but then it should be possible to allow the users to create their own ship modifications, at least for a free battle mode. You still could create campaign missions and expand your game after initial release with new missions and put something in like the quickbattle of Bridge Commander. Or you could give users access to more aspects of your game. Remember Star Trek Eliteforce and Elite Force II? Both were based on Quake 3, and besides mission scripting the user could create their own maps and could also alter some more things like game menus and weapons if you had the source code to several compiled files you were allowed to recompile, since you did not alter the main EXE files. The Armada titles allowed you to create multiplayer and singleplayer maps, but no missions (scripted missions), and I am not sure if Legacy allows it either. The only thing I know is that most Legacy fans are encouraged to download an over 1 GB big universal Legacy modification called Legacy Ultimate Universe to add more game modes, more ships, improoved models/textures, better music and sounds, before gameply becomes worthwhile, according to fans... In either case, if we go for a ship sim, we should have it as open as possible, even if it is not open in mission mode, but I'd like the idea of creating my own missions... If we were going for strathegy, then I'd say not to hold back when it comes to non scripted maps where it's free for all as you like. Even if Dauntless was not a federation ship, I'd like to use her, or to be able to command the ship of the borg queen for once in an accessible game... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1901 / Virus Database
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Dark, Hmmm.I have to admit those are some new and interesting plots. It really would and could fill in some of the history following Deep Space 9 and Voyager. Not much is known about that period, and out side of a couple of books that speculate a possible future it is wide open to interpretation. For instance, according to Star Trek Beyond the Romulan Empire is destroyed around the year 2385, and it caused rogue elements to go back in time and attempt to alter history as we know it. That is how Paramount decided to reintroduce Kirk,, Spock, Scotty, and all the rest of the original crew back into the movies. However, there is virtually nothing known between the end of Star Trek Nemesis where the Romulan senate is assassinated and the destruction of the Romulan homeworlds in Star Trek Beyond. Obviously, from a game or story perspective that's about 12 to 14 years of unknown history of what transpired between Nemesis and Beyond. The Romulans triditionally had a government similar to the Roman Empire with an emperor and senate. Once that government fell in Nemesis its hard to say how the new provisional government was structured and weather it was based on a free democratic society like the Federation, or weather the military or Tal Shir moved in and set up a dictatorship. Without a doubt there would be several factions fighting for power which would be a great plot device. For instance, clear back as early as season 6 of TNG we got a look into the Romulans political state. In the two part episode, Unification, Spock goes to Romulus to help the dissidence who wanted to unify with Vulcan and apply for membership with the Federation. That's one faction who would be in favor of the alliance, and might possibly try to sese power. Later in the season there was a show, Face of the Enemy, where Troi goes undercover to help some of Spock's dissidence escape to the Federation. In that episode it is made clear that the general military and the Tal Shir, the Romulan Intelligence, are both politically and ideologically opposed. After the central power fell in Nemesis I'm sure both the military and Tal Shir would attempt to sese power. Who knows how many other factions would attempt to move in and fill the vacuum. Besides the cannon races we know of like Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, etc there are plenty of non-cannon races from the books that could be used in a game. Take the Fury as a case in point. Back in the mid 90's there was a series of books called Star Trek Invasion that spanned the Classic, Next Generation, Deep Space 9, and Voyager series, and could be continued in another book or game. Bottom line, you have a good point.There are a number of possible plot lines that can be explored here as we pretty much have a good idea of went on during TNG, DS9, and Voyager, but after the close of Voyager little is known of the state of the Federation, Borg, Romulans, Cardassians, Dominion, etc. The way DS 9 and Voyager ended there were more questions than answers. That would be a pretty ritch environment to explore. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Ben, While I think these are all really great ideas, you need to be practical. I am only one person programming these games and can not throw every possible feature into a game just because it is a really good idea. For example, below you mentioned being able to perform mission scripting, create custom maps, custom menus, custom weapons, the ability to modify the ship, etc. All of that sounds good, but it is extremely time consuming and quite a lot of work for one person to program. Since my engine currently has none of these features I'd have to pretty much add all of them from scratch. I'm not sure I'm willing to [put all that time and effort into something that would essentially be a free game. Its just not worth it to me personally. Plus the one thing about too much custom functionality is its almost impossible to balance the game. If I balanced the game for a Soverign-Class ship like the Enterprise E you would end up being at a serious disadvantage if you ended up playing the game as a lightly armed explorer like the Intrepid-Class. Likewise if I balanced the game for a Intrepid-Class then a Sovereign-Class battle cruiser would make the game too easy. Its things like this that can be pure hell to program. When it comes to mission scripting it certainly could be done using Angelscript, VBScript, or some other scripting language, but at the same time it would require a massive rewrite of my game engine to do it. Instead of loading and playing *.wav files I'd probably have to use SAPI given the fact that the more missions, enemies, and custom objects end users would bring into the game the more flexible the speech would have to be. Something like ATT Crystal would sound fine, but something like Microsoft Sam would be horrible. From my point of view the game would sound better with prerecorded speech, but if you want the ability to create custom missions etc then we'd have to use something like SAPI to speak custom content. Its a case of one or the other. Cheers! On 1/15/12, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: I forgot something, something not talked about in canon Star Trek (TV shows and movies) and that is quantum slipstream, shown only in the season four finale of Voyager and another episode in the fifth season. That would technically still be wormhole like in Armada and Armada II, allthough user created mods exist, you cannot realice them, because all wormhole objects in the games are jump points, where you are at point a, select your point b and jump to it. And this kind of tech is allways a special weapon, meaning that it is not standard. And if we are talking about a ship simulator, then we should do something like Bridge commander, but then it should be possible to allow the users to create their own ship modifications, at least for a free battle mode. You still could create campaign missions and expand your game after initial release with new missions and put something in like the quickbattle of Bridge Commander. Or you could give users access to more aspects of your game. Remember Star Trek Eliteforce and Elite Force II? Both were based on Quake 3, and besides mission scripting the user could create their own maps and could also alter some more things like game menus and weapons if you had the source code to several compiled files you were allowed to recompile, since you did not alter the main EXE files. The Armada titles allowed you to create multiplayer and singleplayer maps, but no missions (scripted missions), and I am not sure if Legacy allows it either. The only thing I know is that most Legacy fans are encouraged to download an over 1 GB big universal Legacy modification called Legacy Ultimate Universe to add more game modes, more ships, improoved models/textures, better music and sounds, before gameply becomes worthwhile, according to fans... In either case, if we go for a ship sim, we should have it as open as possible, even if it is not open in mission mode, but I'd like the idea of creating my own missions... If we were going for strathegy, then I'd say not to hold back when it comes to non scripted maps where it's free for all as you like. Even if Dauntless was not a federation ship, I'd like to use her, or to be able to command the ship of the borg queen for once in an accessible game... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Ben, It was already posted to the list three or four days ago. Check the list archives for the link. On 1/15/12, Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk wrote: Hi Tom, Didn't you say that you had done a trek 2000 mod and that if anyone asked for it you would send it along? Well if I may put in a request... you have my email offlist as well so if you could send me a link it would be much appreciated. Thanks, Ben. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi tom. In voyager I didn't mean the borg specifically causing less creative plots throughout the final few series, - indeed like yourself I enjoyd the majority of the Borg episodes. Even in none borg stories, most problems the crew encountered seemed to be solved by doing things to 7's nanoprobes in one way or another, whether that was to scan for something invisible, or deliver some destructive weaponry. I sort of got the impression that nanoprobes were what the writers did when they couldn't actually resolve a plot, and unfortunately in seasons 4-6 this happened again and again which rather disappointed me. ironically it didn't seem voyager changed plots until it got to season 7. I'm not sure about a voyager game, sinse i'm not sure how much is known about some of the main enemies in that series such as species 8472, besides if you were working on such a game, having plots limited only by what voice clips you could get might mean having less creative missions. If you were making a startrek game I actually think it should be about another federation vessel that we've not seen before with it's own crew. That way you could get voice actors to do the main parts (I'd be glad to do something like that myself), and write whatever script and encounters you lik, rather than having it dictated by your voice clips. You could also include whatever races and characters in the crew would be best for the game that way too. For instance, the combat marine character might be a Klingon (others must've followed warf's example especially with the good relations betwene the Federation and the empire and the dominian war), while your tactical officer might be a Vulcan. Heck, maybe your first officer could even be a firengi, and have extremely good negotiation skills (not to mention getting good prices for goods around the galaxy), - afterall Naag joined starfleet so why not others? I'd also be interested to see what sort of plots you could come up with given a free field, sinse someone who knows startrek cannon as well as you do could probably make some very interesting missions and decisions based after the end of current trek. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Dark, Yeah, I know. I understood what you meant. I guess I got carried away with discussing how they over used the Borg and forgot to close my point. Where I was heading was that by introducing Seven's character into the show the writers immediately began using Seven's Borg technology to fix or resolve everything and anything the standard crew could not. It became a repetitive plot device that I think could have been used a lot less than it was. All the same I feel seasons 5, 6, and 7 were among the best. In the last three seasons they introduced several new enemy races like Speceies 8472, the Herogen, and the Borg which I felt were all good enemies that made the show better for it. Plus once Voyager was able to communicate with the Federation they managed to introduce some new plots like the episodes where Voyager sent the doctors program back to the Federation, and the couple of episodes where Troi and Barkly were pulled into the story. Anyway, getting back to the Voyager game idea I've got quite a lot that could be put to such a game. For example, I have sounds for Species 8472, the Herogen, and Borg. Right there are three possible alien races that could be used to create an FPS game. I've also got all of the main characters Paris, Torres, Kim, Janeway, etc so you could litterally take your pick of character to play the game. I'd have to evaluate what I've got, but a Voyager game is definitely possible. I wouldn't promise new alien races, as I'd probably have to pay for new sounds for that, but I could certainly write one around the existing characters and known alien races without a lot of expense. As far as a new ship and crew that would be doable. At one time back in high school I actually sat down and wrote an entire series of short stories under the title, Star Trek: Next Frontier, complete with a different ship and crew. It was actually more fun than writing about the TNG, DS 9, or Voyager series because I could do whatever I wanted with the ship and crew. Unfortunately, the floppies all of those stories were backed up on died a long time ago. That said, it might be interesting to revisit that series and base some games on it. Even though I don't have the actual stories themselves around I still remember some of the main characters, the basic plot of each story, and I could revise it to apply to any era I want. However, absolutely no Ferengi officers! The Ferengi on Deep Space 9 like Quark, Rom, and Nog drove me nuts. I hated their characters with a passion. So much so I killed them in every D.S. 9 story I ever wrote. Lol! Cheers! On 1/14/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. In voyager I didn't mean the borg specifically causing less creative plots throughout the final few series, - indeed like yourself I enjoyd the majority of the Borg episodes. Even in none borg stories, most problems the crew encountered seemed to be solved by doing things to 7's nanoprobes in one way or another, whether that was to scan for something invisible, or deliver some destructive weaponry. I sort of got the impression that nanoprobes were what the writers did when they couldn't actually resolve a plot, and unfortunately in seasons 4-6 this happened again and again which rather disappointed me. ironically it didn't seem voyager changed plots until it got to season 7. I'm not sure about a voyager game, sinse i'm not sure how much is known about some of the main enemies in that series such as species 8472, besides if you were working on such a game, having plots limited only by what voice clips you could get might mean having less creative missions. If you were making a startrek game I actually think it should be about another federation vessel that we've not seen before with it's own crew. That way you could get voice actors to do the main parts (I'd be glad to do something like that myself), and write whatever script and encounters you lik, rather than having it dictated by your voice clips. You could also include whatever races and characters in the crew would be best for the game that way too. For instance, the combat marine character might be a Klingon (others must've followed warf's example especially with the good relations betwene the Federation and the empire and the dominian war), while your tactical officer might be a Vulcan. Heck, maybe your first officer could even be a firengi, and have extremely good negotiation skills (not to mention getting good prices for goods around the galaxy), - afterall Naag joined starfleet so why not others? I'd also be interested to see what sort of plots you could come up with given a free field, sinse someone who knows startrek cannon as well as you do could probably make some very interesting missions and decisions based after the end of current trek. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Dark, Don't think that hadn't occurred to me as well. I was thinking of a mission where the Romulans send a warbird with a phase-cloak device over the neutral zone to attack Vulcan and the Enterprise is sent to intercept and destroy it before they can attack Vulcan's capital. That is only one mission I've had in mind for such a game. In fact, TNG is full of mission ideas, because the show centered around one ship and the shows were balanced so that it was a fair fight. As a result there were plenty of ideas that could be used from the show directly for game missions. For example, in the Wounded the captain of the U.S.S. Phoenix goes rogue and tries to destroy the peace between the Federation and Cardassian Union. The Enterprise is sent by the Federation to stop the Phoenix from breaking the peace treaty. Right there is an excellent mission, back story and all ready to be dropped into a game. It might not be an original idea, but fits nicely into a TNG type game. Another idea that lends itself to a possible game mission is Descent Parts I and II. In those episodes the Enterprise encounters the Borg who had been infected by Hue's individuality and were now under the command of Data's brother Lore. Its one Borg ship, not as powerful as the regular Borg, but falls right in line for a potential game story. Another possible storyline involving the Borg is the episode Q Who. In that episode Q transports the Enterprise directly to Sector J-25 where they encounter the Borg for the first time. As a game mission this works out well, because unlike in Best of Both Worlds, IE the Battle of Wolf 359, there is no fleet engagements to worry about. Its a solo one on one battle between the Enterprise and a Borg ship. Its also realistic because in that conflict the Enterprise does seriously damage the Borg ship, and could have destroyed it if they only understood how the Borg adapt to weapons. They crippled the ship, and chose to board the ship while it was in regeneration. If they would have given up the away team mission and pressed their advantage they would have won. Instead the Enterprise's crew spent too much time studying the Borg and almost got killed for it. As you can see I'm really thinking of a mission based Star Trek game set in the TNG era. To me it seems to be the golden age of Star Trek where it equally balanced exploration with decent plots for military type engagements with hostile races. Its more flexible than Deep Space 9 which almost exclusively focussed on war and conflict once the Defiant became a regular feature of the show. Another advantage of going TNG is that certain alliances hadn't been signed yet making it possible to use races like the Ferengi as enemies. From the first season on in TNG the Ferengi were a regular enemies who showed up to tangle with the Enterprise. As we get into the Deep Space 9 era the Ferengi become allies with the Federation due to the Dominion War. As you pointed out Nog was the first Ferengi Federation officer, and it follows that in future series more Ferengi officers would join the Federation's ranks. Thus effectively writing them off as potential enemies for a game. Another race the Federation made peace with is the Romulans. In TNG they played a triditional roll as frequent enemies, but in the later seasons of Deep Space 9 the Romulans joined the alliance to fight the Dominion. From what I gather from Star Trek Nemesis it was rogue elements of the Romulan Empire that over threw the senate and started the war with the Federation after the Dominion War. Even then two or three Romulan ships loyal to the alliance showed up to pull Enterprise's tail out of the fire. Point being that the Romulans aren't going to play a major roll as enemies in any series following Deep Space 9 unless the new government is hostile to the Federation as previous governments were. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Thomas, You made some good points story whise for a Star Trek game. But, if we look at the mainstream Trek games, we have for example the two strathegy games Star Trek Armada and Armada II. Both are games with plots placed around the sixth and seventh seasons of Voyager. However, after the end of Deep Space Nine we don't get as much story of the Alpha quadrant. We see the Briar Patch in Star Trek Insurrection and we see Voyager return home and in Nemesis we see Janeway as the Admiral who contacts Enterprise E because the Romulan situation starts up. But theese are just small moments Timeline whise from the end of DS9 to Nemesis it is over four years which are unexplored in canon. I am not into the books, so anything that might happen in them is unknown to me. But the point is, that the mainstream games (e.G. the Armada titles) happen near the end of voyager and even if you discount the Delta Quadrant tech shown in Voyager, the mainstream games are really not up to the tech standards. I'll give you a few examples. The Armada series has no real warp drive in the form that you have a big map where you engage warp and navigate trough the map and drop out at your destination. Second, the techtree in the games is not entirely accourate, because the weapons in both games are either badly designed, too limited or unrealistic. For example, every one knows that Defiant and Enterprise E fire Quantum Torpedos, but this weapon is not in the game directly, but a relatively weak upgrade you have to research. Second, Species 8472 has a (in Armada II) has a weapon capable of destroying planets (Scorpion Part I), but in the game, the damage value is too low, and even then it is technically useless, because planets cannot be destroyed in the ggame. Next, the Omega Particle shown also in the game is nothing of the destructive force it is told to be. And finally the borg ships are limited in their capabilities. Whether the borg have more ships besides spheres and cubes is not the ppoint, but every known borg ship is capable of entering transwarp conduits and theese are no damn wormholes! If we get our own Star Trek game, then it should be not limited to the main (canon) TNG era, but should go up to the contents of Unimatrix Zero and Endgame. I'd like to be capable of destroying a transwarp hub myself for once, or to fight a borg cube to find out that it contained a sphere which launches when the cube explodes (seen in First Contact), or to recreate the battle in DS9's Tears of the Prophets with hopefully proper sounds in real time... Something which no mainstream Trek game offers, because the game is too limited to handle lots of ships on a map, because the game isn't capable of handling a really large mass of fired torpedos at the same time, or because the game doesn't have a large ship selection for free campaign less battles. Even Star Trek Legacy can't be used for it too its fullest, because all sounds and music are absolutely non Trek things, even worse as the sounds of the other Trek games even if they are in the post DS9 era and don't use the proper sounds. And for stories, I also know a few, namely what about the members of unimatrix zero and why they did not battle the borg queen in the last Voyager episode. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Thomas, but who said that the borg are not a serious enemy? The battle of wolf 359 was a disaster, and it was against one ship. The beginning of first contact was also not good until the Enterprise showed up and gave special attack instructions and several ships hit the cube with Quantum Torpedos... But the point is, in all instances, only one ship was shown. When voyager entered borg space in Scorpion Part one, 15 borg ships were detected and flew directly past Voyager. We don't know how big the collective is, but it is probably that they have billions of drones and thus they have lots of ships. Do you think that the borg after their contact with voyager would make the same mistake again and send only one ship? Even if starfleet had future Janeway's tech, do you think earth could stop a real Borg fleet of lets say 300 ships in time? I am not sure. And the Borg might adapt against the future tech in the future, but due to Star Trek 11 and the really necessary split off timeline with old Spock and young Spock, we probably won't see the future (post voyager) on screen... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Michael, That's always possible. As I said the state of the Borg Collective was left in question at the end of Final Gambit. There is a similar question left open at the end of Nemesis as we don't really know what the political situation of the Romulan Empire was following that movie either. However, my point was that Starfleet, armed with the new antiborg weapons, would stand a greater chance of success than the battle of Wolf 359 or the second Borg invasion in First Contact. They still might be a serious threat given their ability to adapt and assimalate new technologies, but it would have to be an invasion of superior strength rather than sending scout ships and patrols into Federation space as they did in TNG. One saving grace the Borg has is that there appears to be multiple queens and hives that makes each branch of the collective somewhat atonymous from the others. We've already seen one Borg queen die in First Contact and Janeway took out another in Final Gambit. As a result even if you kill an entire hive plus their queen it doesn't necessarily mean that the entire Borg Collective is effected. Only that hive is destroyed. All this means is if I or anyone else wanted to explore the events post-Voyager there is a lot of questions unanswered by the official Star Trek cannon. Sure, I could write my own history, speculate as to what happened, but it wouldn't be official cannon. For Star Trek purests that might be a turn off, but for those who just want to have fun with it the fact I wouldn't be sticking to cannon might be interesting. Cheers! On 1/14/12, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Thomas, but who said that the borg are not a serious enemy? The battle of wolf 359 was a disaster, and it was against one ship. The beginning of first contact was also not good until the Enterprise showed up and gave special attack instructions and several ships hit the cube with Quantum Torpedos... But the point is, in all instances, only one ship was shown. When voyager entered borg space in Scorpion Part one, 15 borg ships were detected and flew directly past Voyager. We don't know how big the collective is, but it is probably that they have billions of drones and thus they have lots of ships. Do you think that the borg after their contact with voyager would make the same mistake again and send only one ship? Even if starfleet had future Janeway's tech, do you think earth could stop a real Borg fleet of lets say 300 ships in time? I am not sure. And the Borg might adapt against the future tech in the future, but due to Star Trek 11 and the really necessary split off timeline with old Spock and young Spock, we probably won't see the future (post voyager) on screen... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Michael, Yeah, I see your point regarding Star Trek Armada I and Star Trek Armada II, and I agree the technical aspects of both were way off. Although, I haven't had much experience with them as I had already lost my sight by the time they were released. However, part of my interest in developing a game from the perspective of the TNG era would be because Next Generation is still my favorite Star Trek series. I never really liked Deep Space 9 all that well, and while I liked Voyager well enough its still not the same as Next Generation. Therefore from a fan perspective I'd personally like to see something done that is from the perspective of Next Generation. As to the huge fleet engagements etc you are talking about that would make sense were I thinking of a full real time strategy game, but as I've said I'm thinking of a starship symulation with a single ship rather than a fleet. That could be set in any era of my choice be it Next Generation, Deep Space 9, Voyager, or after. I haven't decided on an exact timeline yet as I've got several other irons in the fire. However, if I did set it in that four year time period between Deep Space 9 and Star Trek Nemesis that would open up a lot of possibilities in terms of types of ship. We can use a Sovereign-Class Battle Cruiser like Enter;prise E or a smaller Escort ship like a Defiant-Class ship. We could use an Intrepid-Class Explorer like Voyager, or even invent a new class outright. Its got possibilities. Cheers! On 1/14/12, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Thomas, You made some good points story whise for a Star Trek game. But, if we look at the mainstream Trek games, we have for example the two strathegy games Star Trek Armada and Armada II. Both are games with plots placed around the sixth and seventh seasons of Voyager. However, after the end of Deep Space Nine we don't get as much story of the Alpha quadrant. We see the Briar Patch in Star Trek Insurrection and we see Voyager return home and in Nemesis we see Janeway as the Admiral who contacts Enterprise E because the Romulan situation starts up. But theese are just small moments Timeline whise from the end of DS9 to Nemesis it is over four years which are unexplored in canon. I am not into the books, so anything that might happen in them is unknown to me. But the point is, that the mainstream games (e.G. the Armada titles) happen near the end of voyager and even if you discount the Delta Quadrant tech shown in Voyager, the mainstream games are really not up to the tech standards. I'll give you a few examples. The Armada series has no real warp drive in the form that you have a big map where you engage warp and navigate trough the map and drop out at your destination. Second, the techtree in the games is not entirely accourate, because the weapons in both games are either badly designed, too limited or unrealistic. For example, every one knows that Defiant and Enterprise E fire Quantum Torpedos, but this weapon is not in the game directly, but a relatively weak upgrade you have to research. Second, Species 8472 has a (in Armada II) has a weapon capable of destroying planets (Scorpion Part I), but in the game, the damage value is too low, and even then it is technically useless, because planets cannot be destroyed in the ggame. Next, the Omega Particle shown also in the game is nothing of the destructive force it is told to be. And finally the borg ships are limited in their capabilities. Whether the borg have more ships besides spheres and cubes is not the ppoint, but every known borg ship is capable of entering transwarp conduits and theese are no damn wormholes! If we get our own Star Trek game, then it should be not limited to the main (canon) TNG era, but should go up to the contents of Unimatrix Zero and Endgame. I'd like to be capable of destroying a transwarp hub myself for once, or to fight a borg cube to find out that it contained a sphere which launches when the cube explodes (seen in First Contact), or to recreate the battle in DS9's Tears of the Prophets with hopefully proper sounds in real time... Something which no mainstream Trek game offers, because the game is too limited to handle lots of ships on a map, because the game isn't capable of handling a really large mass of fired torpedos at the same time, or because the game doesn't have a large ship selection for free campaign less battles. Even Star Trek Legacy can't be used for it too its fullest, because all sounds and music are absolutely non Trek things, even worse as the sounds of the other Trek games even if they are in the post DS9 era and don't use the proper sounds. And for stories, I also know a few, namely what about the members of unimatrix zero and why they did not battle the borg queen in the last Voyager episode. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi tom. I must admit I was less of a fan of the later part of voyager up until season 7, sinse it seemed the over all plot of the series didn't advance, most plots were resolved with nannoprobes, and Janeway's sort of school teacher atitude continually annoyed me (while I'm all for a female captain, it seemed Janeway treated her crew as though they were all five years old!). I also really liked the continual rivelry betwene Quark and Odo in Ds9, it made for some very good light humor, and where the Federation are constantly the good guys it was nice to have some characters who were scumbags! Indeed, one of the startrek novels I remember involved a Firengi being assimilated by the Borg, so then you had a Borg who knew all about trade and negotiation. Getting back to games though, i'd actually love to see a post voyager game with a new ship, heck you could even include some voyager races, afterall, the Borg made it to the alpha quadrant, why not other races? Say for instance the Herogen come upon a Borg trans worp conduit. Though they are not the most technical of races, sinse the Borg are no longer around, they manage to use it to transport ships to the alpha quadrant to begin hunts there. they start off unfortunately on the romulan empire, and the Romulans as per the accords of the dominian war request aide from the Federation to deal with the new threat, - all the time while wanting to get hold of the trans warp technology for themselves, sinse it would give a major military advantage. right there you have a conflict wwith another enemy, and a couple of races you culd build plots around. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi Dark, Yeah, I know. I understood what you meant. I guess I got carried away with discussing how they over used the Borg and forgot to close my point. Where I was heading was that by introducing Seven's character into the show the writers immediately began using Seven's Borg technology to fix or resolve everything and anything the standard crew could not. It became a repetitive plot device that I think could have been used a lot less than it was. All the same I feel seasons 5, 6, and 7 were among the best. In the last three seasons they introduced several new enemy races like Speceies 8472, the Herogen, and the Borg which I felt were all good enemies that made the show better for it. Plus once Voyager was able to communicate with the Federation they managed to introduce some new plots like the episodes where Voyager sent the doctors program back to the Federation, and the couple of episodes where Troi and Barkly were pulled into the story. Anyway, getting back to the Voyager game idea I've got quite a lot that could be put to such a game. For example, I have sounds for Species 8472, the Herogen, and Borg. Right there are three possible alien races that could be used to create an FPS game. I've also got all of the main characters Paris, Torres, Kim, Janeway, etc so you could litterally take your pick of character to play the game. I'd have to evaluate what I've got, but a Voyager game is definitely possible. I wouldn't promise new alien races, as I'd probably have to pay for new sounds for that, but I could certainly write one around the existing characters and known alien races without a lot of expense. As far as a new ship and crew that would be doable. At one time back in high school I actually sat down and wrote an entire series of short stories under the title, Star Trek: Next Frontier, complete with a different ship and crew. It was actually more fun than writing about the TNG, DS 9, or Voyager series because I could do whatever I wanted with the ship and crew. Unfortunately, the floppies all of those stories were backed up on died a long time ago. That said, it might be interesting to revisit that series and base some games on it. Even though I don't have the actual stories themselves around I still remember some of the main characters, the basic plot of each story, and I could revise it to apply to any era I want. However, absolutely no Ferengi officers! The Ferengi on Deep Space 9 like Quark, Rom, and Nog drove me nuts. I hated their characters with a passion. So much so I killed them in every D.S. 9 story I ever wrote. Lol! Cheers! On 1/14/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. In voyager I didn't mean the borg specifically causing less creative plots throughout the final few series, - indeed like yourself I enjoyd the majority of the Borg episodes. Even in none borg stories, most problems the crew encountered seemed to be solved by doing things to 7's nanoprobes in one way or another, whether that was to scan for something invisible, or deliver some destructive weaponry. I sort of got the impression that nanoprobes
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Dark, Yeah, the constant rivalry between Quark and Odo could get amusing at times. Odo always considered Quark public enemy number one, and it was funny to see Quark always getting blamed for things he didn't do. Although, with Quark you could never tell, because he was a Ferengi out for profit and was constantly scheming even when he was technically within the law. I don't know if you have ever read the Deep Space 9 book Fallen Heroes, but there is some pretty amusing scenes in there between Quark and Odo. Although, it was necessary for that book, because it was pretty darn grim. Quark and Odo are sent three days into the future where upon they discover the entire crew of Deep Space 9 was murdered by an alien race from the Gamma Quadrant. Quark and Odo must find a way to return to the past and prevent the slaughter from taking place. Its a great book. As for the book where the Ferengi captain got assimilated by the Borg that was Vendetta by Peter David. That was truly a warped book, but there were some pretty funny scenes in that book. The most memorable that comes to mind is how the Ferengi captain ended up getting assimilated in the first place. He decides he wants to open trade with the Borg so he beams over the lead Borg cube. The Borg take him before the ships hive mind, the unimind, and the Borg tell him what they are going to do. I love his response. You talked about what you want, but what about what I want? The Borg replies, you are irrelevant. I seriously laughed my rear off when I heard that. Peter David often has a sense of humor when writing his Star Trek books and his books can really be funny if a bit bizarre at times. Although, Q Squared is probably the most bizarre and warped book the guy has ever written. As far as a game goes I'd have to think about it. I'm not so sure just any race can move in and take over a transwarp conduit given that some Borg would have survived the battle in End Game. In fact, I'm pretty sure what Janeway and Voyager did was only to a single hive or branch of the Borg Collective and there are probably other queens and hives elsewhere in the galaxy uneffected. At any rate the transwarp conduit Voyager used no longer exists. If you remember as they cleared the conduit Voyager fired several photons back into the conduit which not only closed it but I believe destroyed the transwarp conduit on the other side which means races like the Herogen would have to find a different one to invade the Alpha Quadrant. However, I take your point. One of the things a lot of Deep Space 9 books did is invent new races in the Gamma Quadrant which the crew of Deep Space 9 encountered and usually had to fight. As a plot device it was a great idea and could really apply to the Beta, Gamma, or Delta quadrants. Suppose a new wormhole is discovered in a lightly explored region of the Alpha Quadrant and our ship is sent to investigate. As they do they send a probe through the wormhole which gets intercepted on the other side by an alien race who decide to send their forces through and invade the Alpha Quadrant. Here is a great plot where the time period and particular crew doesn't matter because its a custom story complete with custom aliens who may not be cannon, but gives us a lot of potential as a mission or a game. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Wow 28 moves, that's good. I can hardly manage that on level one, though my personal strategy is a bit more defensive. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 22:32:54 -0500 Subject: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi all, After I posted the Trek 2000 soundpack I decided to install the game, and play it with the soundpack. Even after all these years of not playing Trek 2000 I can say I've still got the touch. That is I'm still a seriously competent Starfleet commander and all around good guy. I started up the game on the Bring Them On level expecting myself to be a bit rusty. I was, but not enough to effect the outcome of the war. I Started out by pulling my fleet together so I could hit the enemy as a single attack fleet. Unfortunately, that didn't quite happen as I had intended. It so happened that a Tholian starbase was not more than 10 units from Starbase 2 and three Tholians moved in to position to hit Starbase 2. U.S.S. Enterprise and Yorktown showed up in time to keep them from destroying the station and we made short work of the three Tholian creeps who thought they'd kick off the enemy offensive by taking out a Federation Starbase. Enterprise took up station near Starbase 2 while Yorktown started pumping phasers into the Tholian station. As expected two Tholians broke off their attack to save the Tholian station which was a faint on my part. Their mistake. I dropped a mine and warped out of range of their weapons. A move later both Tholian ships and the station were turned into space dust. The third Tholian moved in and attacked Enterprise and hit it with a Tholian web. Enterprise crippled the ship with 4500 units of phaser energy, and Yorktown finished him off with another 4000 units or so. Meanwhile Defiant managed to run head long into the main enemy battle fleet. Three Romulans, a Tholian, and four Klingon ships. Let's just say Defiant smoked two of the Romulans, but with that kind of odds Defiant's days were numbered. The other ships moved in and blew Defiant to pieces. Fortunately, Valiant wasn't far away and caught the enemy attack fleet unaware and blew away a Klingon ship, damaged a second, and one of the Romulan ships took some minor damage from phaser fire. To finish the job I dropped a mine and ran back to Starbase 1 for resupplies. Well, after a move or so the mine went off, destroyed the Romulan, toasted two Klingons, and damaged the fourth Klingon, the fourth Romulan, and Tholian. This not only knocked down their forces it gave Valiant time to reach the Starbase and reload up on energy, photons, and prepare to meet the battle fleet head on if need be. Given these odds I dispatched Yorktown to Starbase 1 to back Valiant up. Unfortunately, it never made it. For reasons unexplained the enemy fleet didn't chase Valiant to Starbase 1 and chose to intercept Yorktown as she made her way to Starbase 1. They got in some lucky shots, and Yorktown died from a well placed ambush. Now, by this time I'm boiling with a desire for revenge. I wait on station for the enemy fleet to arrive. Not surprising it was something of a slaughter. I blew away the last romulan and smoked the Klingon ship as they came in. I kept my energy levels at maximum waiting for the final Tholian to fall into my trap. He did. He trapped Valiant in a web, and knocked her shields down. In return both Valiant an Starbase 1 opened fire on the Tholian ship.The Tholian ship blew apart in a spectacular explosion and the war was over. Oh, I may have been rusty, but I'm still master of the game. In total it took me 28 moves to grind the enemy fleet down to size and eliminate all 12 enemy ships and one station. Given a few more moves I still had enough firepower to smoke some of the other enemy starbases too. The funny thing is most of the enemies were dispatched and destroyed by the U.S.S. Valiant. One single ship took out four Romulans, Four Klingons, and a Tholian ship. Without a doubt that makes Starfleet the best military fleet in the Alpha Quadrant. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Your thinking of the wrong game, the one you discribed with final conflict. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 04:25:35 - Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi tom. that's fairly awsome, actually I've not played the game in a while myself so probably ought to give it another bash. My only problem however with the game, and indeed with trek 2000, is that the enemy always gets the first hit in, sinse the enemy come into range on your turn but fire on there's, which means that ninety percent of the time it's better to get around one of your starbases and fire away rather than use a direct attack in open space, indeed the only ship that can attack an enemy first is the Defiant with the cloaking device. This is another reason I'd like to see a trek game with a single ship, sinse that leaves room for more tactical combat, sinse afterall there were situations when starfleet had to fire first, such as when combating the borg. all the best, Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 3:32 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi all, After I posted the Trek 2000 soundpack I decided to install the game, and play it with the soundpack. Even after all these years of not playing Trek 2000 I can say I've still got the touch. That is I'm still a seriously competent Starfleet commander and all around good guy. I started up the game on the Bring Them On level expecting myself to be a bit rusty. I was, but not enough to effect the outcome of the war. I Started out by pulling my fleet together so I could hit the enemy as a single attack fleet. Unfortunately, that didn't quite happen as I had intended. It so happened that a Tholian starbase was not more than 10 units from Starbase 2 and three Tholians moved in to position to hit Starbase 2. U.S.S. Enterprise and Yorktown showed up in time to keep them from destroying the station and we made short work of the three Tholian creeps who thought they'd kick off the enemy offensive by taking out a Federation Starbase. Enterprise took up station near Starbase 2 while Yorktown started pumping phasers into the Tholian station. As expected two Tholians broke off their attack to save the Tholian station which was a faint on my part. Their mistake. I dropped a mine and warped out of range of their weapons. A move later both Tholian ships and the station were turned into space dust. The third Tholian moved in and attacked Enterprise and hit it with a Tholian web. Enterprise crippled the ship with 4500 units of phaser energy, and Yorktown finished him off with another 4000 units or so. Meanwhile Defiant managed to run head long into the main enemy battle fleet. Three Romulans, a Tholian, and four Klingon ships. Let's just say Defiant smoked two of the Romulans, but with that kind of odds Defiant's days were numbered. The other ships moved in and blew Defiant to pieces. Fortunately, Valiant wasn't far away and caught the enemy attack fleet unaware and blew away a Klingon ship, damaged a second, and one of the Romulan ships took some minor damage from phaser fire. To finish the job I dropped a mine and ran back to Starbase 1 for resupplies. Well, after a move or so the mine went off, destroyed the Romulan, toasted two Klingons, and damaged the fourth Klingon, the fourth Romulan, and Tholian. This not only knocked down their forces it gave Valiant time to reach the Starbase and reload up on energy, photons, and prepare to meet the battle fleet head on if need be. Given these odds I dispatched Yorktown to Starbase 1 to back Valiant up. Unfortunately, it never made it. For reasons unexplained the enemy fleet didn't chase Valiant to Starbase 1 and chose to intercept Yorktown as she made her way to Starbase 1. They got in some lucky shots, and Yorktown died from a well placed ambush. Now, by this time I'm boiling with a desire for revenge. I wait on station for the enemy fleet to arrive. Not surprising it was something of a slaughter. I blew away the last romulan and smoked the Klingon ship as they came in. I kept my energy levels at maximum waiting for the final Tholian to fall into my trap. He did. He trapped Valiant in a web, and knocked her shields down. In return both Valiant an Starbase 1 opened fire on the Tholian ship.The Tholian ship blew apart in a spectacular explosion and the war was over. Oh, I may have been rusty, but I'm still master of the game. In total it took me 28 moves to grind the enemy fleet down to size and eliminate all 12 enemy ships and one station. Given a few more moves I still had enough firepower to smoke some of the other enemy starbases too. The funny thing is most of the enemies were dispatched and destroyed by the U.S.S. Valiant. One single ship
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Not on the higher levels, if your not careful they'll utterly destroy you, even with your shihps docked at a starbase 24-7. - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 23:10:07 -0600 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi, MY biggest criticism has to be the way you can play it: if you just wait at a starbase, all your enemies come to you. Strategically I call that suicide. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:58 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi Dark, Yeah, I know. That's truly one of the disadvantages to move based games like STFC or Trek 2000 is you can fly right into an armada of enemy ships and get destroyed without even having a chance to fire a shot. That happened tonight a couple of times and it was extremely frustrating. Especially, since I was handing their butts to them whenever I got a real chance to mix it up with the enemy fleets. My next Star Trek game will be more of a starship sym where you command a single vessel like the Enterprise and carry out various missions. Basically, what I am thinking of is something like Lone Wolf, but with a Star Trek type theme to it. In that way it will be more like the television series because you might have x number of missions to select from and play out in real time. Although, after having played Time of Conflict it would be cool to actually have a real time strategy Star Trek game where you command Starfleet and have to build and supply several ships. In a case like that you would have a variety of classes to build, each with specific functions, and you'd have to build planetary defenses around the home worlds of the Federation. You would have to manage fleet deployments and set up stations where you could easily block an incoming invasion. It would be very interesting to see a game like that. Cheers! On 1/12/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. that's fairly awsome, actually I've not played the game in a while myself so probably ought to give it another bash. My only problem however with the game, and indeed with trek 2000, is that the enemy always gets the first hit in, sinse the enemy come into range on your turn but fire on there's, which means that ninety percent of the time it's better to get around one of your starbases and fire away rather than use a direct attack in open space, indeed the only ship that can attack an enemy first is the Defiant with the cloaking device. This is another reason I'd like to see a trek game with a single ship, sinse that leaves room for more tactical combat, sinse afterall there were situations when starfleet had to fire first, such as when combating the borg. all the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4138 - Release Date: 01/12/12 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Yes, I meant final conflict when I was talking about the defiant's cloaking device, sinse the rules for that game are the same in the way you move and attack. there is I believe no way at all to get the first move in original Trek 2000 at all! eware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: john jpcarnemo...@comcast.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Your thinking of the wrong game, the one you discribed with final conflict. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 04:25:35 - Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi tom. that's fairly awsome, actually I've not played the game in a while myself so probably ought to give it another bash. My only problem however with the game, and indeed with trek 2000, is that the enemy always gets the first hit in, sinse the enemy come into range on your turn but fire on there's, which means that ninety percent of the time it's better to get around one of your starbases and fire away rather than use a direct attack in open space, indeed the only ship that can attack an enemy first is the Defiant with the cloaking device. This is another reason I'd like to see a trek game with a single ship, sinse that leaves room for more tactical combat, sinse afterall there were situations when starfleet had to fire first, such as when combating the borg. all the best, Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 3:32 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi all, After I posted the Trek 2000 soundpack I decided to install the game, and play it with the soundpack. Even after all these years of not playing Trek 2000 I can say I've still got the touch. That is I'm still a seriously competent Starfleet commander and all around good guy. I started up the game on the Bring Them On level expecting myself to be a bit rusty. I was, but not enough to effect the outcome of the war. I Started out by pulling my fleet together so I could hit the enemy as a single attack fleet. Unfortunately, that didn't quite happen as I had intended. It so happened that a Tholian starbase was not more than 10 units from Starbase 2 and three Tholians moved in to position to hit Starbase 2. U.S.S. Enterprise and Yorktown showed up in time to keep them from destroying the station and we made short work of the three Tholian creeps who thought they'd kick off the enemy offensive by taking out a Federation Starbase. Enterprise took up station near Starbase 2 while Yorktown started pumping phasers into the Tholian station. As expected two Tholians broke off their attack to save the Tholian station which was a faint on my part. Their mistake. I dropped a mine and warped out of range of their weapons. A move later both Tholian ships and the station were turned into space dust. The third Tholian moved in and attacked Enterprise and hit it with a Tholian web. Enterprise crippled the ship with 4500 units of phaser energy, and Yorktown finished him off with another 4000 units or so. Meanwhile Defiant managed to run head long into the main enemy battle fleet. Three Romulans, a Tholian, and four Klingon ships. Let's just say Defiant smoked two of the Romulans, but with that kind of odds Defiant's days were numbered. The other ships moved in and blew Defiant to pieces. Fortunately, Valiant wasn't far away and caught the enemy attack fleet unaware and blew away a Klingon ship, damaged a second, and one of the Romulan ships took some minor damage from phaser fire. To finish the job I dropped a mine and ran back to Starbase 1 for resupplies. Well, after a move or so the mine went off, destroyed the Romulan, toasted two Klingons, and damaged the fourth Klingon, the fourth Romulan, and Tholian. This not only knocked down their forces it gave Valiant time to reach the Starbase and reload up on energy, photons, and prepare to meet the battle fleet head on if need be. Given these odds I dispatched Yorktown to Starbase 1 to back Valiant up. Unfortunately, it never made it. For reasons unexplained the enemy fleet didn't chase Valiant to Starbase 1 and chose to intercept Yorktown as she made her way to Starbase 1. They got in some lucky shots, and Yorktown died from a well placed ambush. Now, by this time I'm boiling with a desire for revenge. I wait on station for the enemy fleet to arrive. Not surprising it was something of a slaughter. I blew away the last romulan and smoked the Klingon ship as they came in. I kept my energy levels at maximum waiting for the final Tholian to fall into my trap. He did. He trapped Valiant in a web, and knocked her shields down. In return both Valiant an Starbase 1 opened fire on the Tholian ship.The Tholian ship blew apart in a spectacular
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
There are actually several ways, it's just not practical. There are many ships (klingons and a ccouple tholions) that don't attack until they're right next to you. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 15:18:48 - Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Yes, I meant final conflict when I was talking about the defiant's cloaking device, sinse the rules for that game are the same in the way you move and attack. there is I believe no way at all to get the first move in original Trek 2000 at all! eware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: john jpcarnemo...@comcast.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Your thinking of the wrong game, the one you discribed with final conflict. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 04:25:35 - Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi tom. that's fairly awsome, actually I've not played the game in a while myself so probably ought to give it another bash. My only problem however with the game, and indeed with trek 2000, is that the enemy always gets the first hit in, sinse the enemy come into range on your turn but fire on there's, which means that ninety percent of the time it's better to get around one of your starbases and fire away rather than use a direct attack in open space, indeed the only ship that can attack an enemy first is the Defiant with the cloaking device. This is another reason I'd like to see a trek game with a single ship, sinse that leaves room for more tactical combat, sinse afterall there were situations when starfleet had to fire first, such as when combating the borg. all the best, Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 3:32 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi all, After I posted the Trek 2000 soundpack I decided to install the game, and play it with the soundpack. Even after all these years of not playing Trek 2000 I can say I've still got the touch. That is I'm still a seriously competent Starfleet commander and all around good guy. I started up the game on the Bring Them On level expecting myself to be a bit rusty. I was, but not enough to effect the outcome of the war. I Started out by pulling my fleet together so I could hit the enemy as a single attack fleet. Unfortunately, that didn't quite happen as I had intended. It so happened that a Tholian starbase was not more than 10 units from Starbase 2 and three Tholians moved in to position to hit Starbase 2. U.S.S. Enterprise and Yorktown showed up in time to keep them from destroying the station and we made short work of the three Tholian creeps who thought they'd kick off the enemy offensive by taking out a Federation Starbase. Enterprise took up station near Starbase 2 while Yorktown started pumping phasers into the Tholian station. As expected two Tholians broke off their attack to save the Tholian station which was a faint on my part. Their mistake. I dropped a mine and warped out of range of their weapons. A move later both Tholian ships and the station were turned into space dust. The third Tholian moved in and attacked Enterprise and hit it with a Tholian web. Enterprise crippled the ship with 4500 units of phaser energy, and Yorktown finished him off with another 4000 units or so. Meanwhile Defiant managed to run head long into the main enemy battle fleet. Three Romulans, a Tholian, and four Klingon ships. Let's just say Defiant smoked two of the Romulans, but with that kind of odds Defiant's days were numbered. The other ships moved in and blew Defiant to pieces. Fortunately, Valiant wasn't far away and caught the enemy attack fleet unaware and blew away a Klingon ship, damaged a second, and one of the Romulan ships took some minor damage from phaser fire. To finish the job I dropped a mine and ran back to Starbase 1 for resupplies. Well, after a move or so the mine went off, destroyed the Romulan, toasted two Klingons, and damaged the fourth Klingon, the fourth Romulan, and Tholian. This not only knocked down their forces it gave Valiant time to reach the Starbase and reload up on energy, photons, and prepare to meet the battle fleet head on if need be. Given these odds I dispatched Yorktown to Starbase 1 to back Valiant up. Unfortunately, it never made it. For reasons unexplained the enemy fleet didn't chase Valiant to Starbase 1 and chose to intercept Yorktown as she made her way to Starbase 1. They got in some lucky shots, and Yorktown died from a well placed ambush. Now, by this time I'm boiling with a desire for revenge. I wait on station for the enemy
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Hayden, Yes, unfortunately as a strategy game Trek 2000 doesn't have too much to offer when it comes to different strategic situations and doesn't force the player away from his/her starbases. I've realized for quite some time that a mission based game would be better because then you'd be given specific tasks to accomplish such as destroy the Romulan fleet before it attacks Volcan or the Klingons are building a fleet near sector such and such and destroy them. In this way the starbases would not be a critical part of your defense and you'd actually have to plan out actual raids and conduct a more offensive style of combat. As it is now if you just park everything near a starbase you can destroy the entire enemy fleet without having to even leave Federation space. However, I've never taken to that strategy myself. I always play an offensive game, choosing to attack enemy starbases, to make the game more challenging by fighting the enemy fleets as much as I can in their own territories. Letting them all attack you at your own starbases is, well, too easy and a bit boring. Cheers! On 1/13/12, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, MY biggest criticism has to be the way you can play it: if you just wait at a starbase, all your enemies come to you. Strategically I call that suicide. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Dark, Actually, there are times you can attack first in Trek 2000, and a lot of it depends on luck and range. Enemies tend to wait until they are in close before attacking. If you fire torpedoes into the Klingons while they are out of disruptor range you can damage, cripple, and even destroy a few before they get into disruptor range. The best way to initiate this kind of attack is to scan, find out what targets you want, and to then change your warp speed so you don't come into enemy weapons range first. If you plan it right you might be out of disruptor and phaser range, but in close enough to hit them with photon torpedoes. HTH On 1/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Yes, I meant final conflict when I was talking about the defiant's cloaking device, sinse the rules for that game are the same in the way you move and attack. there is I believe no way at all to get the first move in original Trek 2000 at all! eware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi, Well, I think my fastest Trek 2000 game was complete victory in 13 moves on the level 1 difficulty. I'm a very offensive game player and I usually take the fight to the enemy long before they come into range of the starbases. That's in part how and why I can complete a game so fast. A lot of players of the game just pull up near the closest starbase and just wait for the enemy to show up.Not only is that not very creative in my point of view, but they are missing the fun of hunting the enemy ships down and destroying them in their home space. I love going after their starbases and blowing two or three of them up while eliminating all 12 enemy ships too. Well, 13 if you count the Doomsday Machine that shows up on level 5 which isn't nearly as cool as the Borg ship in STFC. At any rate you should try taking the fight to the enemy. Its far more fun than sitting around by a starbase and waiting. Cheers! On 1/13/12, john jpcarnemo...@comcast.net wrote: Wow 28 moves, that's good. I can hardly manage that on level one, though my personal strategy is a bit more defensive. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Dark, Sure. Audio game technology has dramatically changed over the last couple of years, and that is why I want to rewrite STFC and bring it more up to date. The original version of STFC was suppose to be a modern version of Trek 2000, but having played Castaways and Time of Conflict I'm no longer satisfied with a simple turn based strategy game like STFC or Trek 2000. Looking back on it Trek 2000 was great for 1999 and 2000 game technology. However, looking back on it from where we are now its rather lame in some aspects. For one thing if we created a game like that today we would probably make it a real time strategy game where you get to build and command several Federation ships, and stations. You'd have to capture enemy planets with Federation troops to stop the production of enemy ships, and so on. I can see the entire Trek 2000 and STFC type game being far more complex than it is now just by making it more like Time of Conflict. Cheers! On 1/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I Agree Haiden, again this is where time of conflict really has the right idea I think, sinse there you actually need! to go out and fight the enemy in numerically reasonable forces. While Trek 2000 was great for being possibly the first audio stratogy game, i think we've advanced sinse then, especially looking at castaways and time of conflict. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Dark, Well, you are right to a point. Initially when Star Trek began the main purpose was to explore space and encounter new lifeforms. It was first and foremost an exploration type show that was the main theme of the original series as well as Next Generation. With Deep Space 9 I think the writers were sort of stuck, and it became more military oriented because Deep Space 9 was a space station and not an exploration vessel like the Enterprise was.Therefore throughout the course of Deep Space 9 there were conflicts with the Cardassians over Bajor, there was the Klingon War, and then the Dominion War. This really got into the large fleet engagements more typical of Star Wars than Star Trek, and I personally feel killed the show for me. However, Deep Space 9 was not a huge success for Paramount. Ratings were much lower than Next Generation, and that's when they decided to return to the exploration format/theme.So in 95, on my birthday no doubt, they launched Voyager which is one of my favorite Star Trek series of all time primarily because there were many new alien races, new characters, and Voyager was completely on her own in the Delta Quadrant. By the time Voyager had reached its fourth season ratings were right back up to where they had been with Next Generation. So clearly Trek fans--myself included--like the exploration aspect of Star Trek rather than the war and conflict we saw in Deep Space 9. So over all I agree with you. Star Trek is more about a single ship and its crew exploring deep space, encountering new races, and going where no man has gone before. Yes, sometimes our crew gets involved in conflicts but those are secondary to their primary mission of exploration and adventure. The reason Voyager was so much better than Deep Space 9 in hindsight is that with Voyager there always seemed like something new from show to show where with Deep Space 9 it felt like the same thing being repeated over and over as the Dominion War dragged on show after show season after season. Cheers! On 1/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. While a stratogy sim would be fun, indeed if the customizations with the time of conflict engine which Phil reported come into being it might well be possible without too much trouble, I personally always felt the real point of startrek was a single ship flying around in space on their own encountering the unknown, or at least having to deal with alien powers who were not particularly human in their outlook or culture. this is why I'd so love a single ship, lw type of game. for space war plots, i always thought babylon 5 succeeded far more than even ds9 did, though that's perhaps a debate for another timme. Either way, it's the hole boldly going where no one has gone before in startrek that rather interested me, and I'd love to see a game that reflected more of that sort of aspect of things. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Ah Tom, i didn't realize the phasers and such had different ranges, but that does make sense, I'll have to give the game a try and see how it works. Even so though, i deffinately would like to see more tactical ship to ship combat, eg, different targiting stratogies to hit the enemy's power source or weapons, or to take down their shield to beam a team across. We see in the series that different combat tasks take very different tactics and power (indeed you'll probably know far more about this than I do), and I'd really appreciate a mission based startrek game that focused on this. For instance, finding an enemy in an asteroid field where lots of floating debris would make torpedos less useful and scanners work only at short range. You could either blow the asteroids away and hope to hit the enemy before they hit you, attempt a long range scan (but with lowered shields), or hunt carefully with your phasers. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi Dark, Actually, there are times you can attack first in Trek 2000, and a lot of it depends on luck and range. Enemies tend to wait until they are in close before attacking. If you fire torpedoes into the Klingons while they are out of disruptor range you can damage, cripple, and even destroy a few before they get into disruptor range. The best way to initiate this kind of attack is to scan, find out what targets you want, and to then change your warp speed so you don't come into enemy weapons range first. If you plan it right you might be out of disruptor and phaser range, but in close enough to hit them with photon torpedoes. HTH On 1/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Yes, I meant final conflict when I was talking about the defiant's cloaking device, sinse the rules for that game are the same in the way you move and attack. there is I believe no way at all to get the first move in original Trek 2000 at all! eware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Tom. This is all true as regards startrek, indeed for the military and politics plot I think babylon 5 can't be beaten. for instance, in Babylon 5, the relations betwene the main races were not streight forward. The humans were a major power, but eventually fell into a military dictatorship with the show focusing on the now independent B5 and their relations with other races. The mimbari had their own religious concerns, but also had just come out opf a major war with the humans meaning relations betwene those two races were very strained, while the Sentari were a steadily declining power trying desperately to make alliances and regain lost ground (especially concerning their relations with the Narn). Then behind all of these you have the Vorlons and shaddows playing games and causing or preventing conflict. this lead to a lot of very complex relations betwene the different powers that just didn't seem to come up in Ds9. i think Startrek, having setup the Federation as pretty much a perfect utopian society with o classes much less a dictatorship,had rather a lot of trouble intigrating the sort of complex relations betwene different cultures with their history necessary to back up a war plot. while I did enjoy Ds9, it was primarily for the characters and their interactions than really any interest in the power struggle, where as babylon 5 the two were intimately connected. Voyager I really liked for the first three seasons, when you did! indeed have new aliens and interesting situations in a totally unknown region of space that challenged the crew out on their own, for example the alliance they had to make against the Kaison directly against federation policy, but one needed by necessity. This was distinctly the thing I always enjoyed in startrek. It however did seem after series three the plots got a little stale, certain characters such as Kim and Paris stopped evolving, and virtually every situation was solved by a deus x nano machina, ie, 7 of 9's nano probes (which i quite like 7 as a character, I got heartily sick of hereing we can modify her nano probes to solve this!). Plot aside though, the voyaging of voyager was fantastic, and something I'd love to see in a startrek game, actual new situations and challnges presented to the player out of the blue. Btw, this is also why i'm such a major Doctor who fan, sinse the Tardis can go very litterally anywhere! in time or space from Ancient Rome, to prehistory, to the distant future or hundreds of alien worlds. However a doctor who game would be less practical, unless of course it was some sort of text adventure with puzzles that you could get through interlectually, hmmm another gamebook perhaps? :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Dark, Yes, all of the weapons in Trek 2000 have a maximum range. The Tholian web generators, for example, only are effective under 2 units. that's why they have to move in extremely close before trapping you in a Tholian web. The photon torpedoes have an effective range of about 6. Although, I've hit enemies as far as 9 units away. Once you figure out what are the maximum attack range of each enemy you can pretty much build your tactics around that and shred their forces before they can do much damage to your fleet. As far as being in an asteroid field or debree field that would definitely present a number of challenges for both sides as long range sensors would be ineffective and short range sensors would be less effective. The various missions into the Bad Lands on Deep Space 9 really illustrated how any kind of space dust or space debree can lower the effectiveness of sensor scans and weapon performance. However, that can be as much a hindrance to the enemy as you. For example, the Romulans primarily base their tactics on stealth technology. The cloaking device can render a ship almost completely invisible but in order to do that they have to lower shields and draw power from the shield generators to maintain the cloak. Apparently the Klingons also have this vonerability in their own cloaking technology. As a result if a ship like that got hit by an asteroid or similar piece of debree it would be seriously damaged if not outright destroyed by the collision. So it would be hazardess for any enemy ship to enter an asteroid or debree field while cloaked. That alone takes away one serious advantage those enemy ships possess in any combat situation. Although, the Romulans do have a wild card that could come into play if we base this on the later seasons of TNG. Beginning in season 6 the Romulans were building a new device that could both phase and cloak a warbird at the same time. That would allow them to pass through asteroids and other space debree uneffected. However, that technology was also apparently unstable as the U.S.S. Pegasus was a shining example of what can and did go wrong when the phase technology wasn't working correctly. After season 6 of TNG I don't remember the phase technology being discussed on TNG, DS 9, or Voyager again. That leads me to believe it was an experimental piece of hardware that was never deployed throughout the Romulan Empire. Otherwise if the Romulans had it they certainly would have used it against the Dominion in the Dominion War. Plus Commander Sela's flagship, the Goraxus, didn't have phase-cloak technology in the season 7 episode where she captured La Forge further reinforcing my opinion that phase-cloak was experimental only. Cheers! On 1/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Ah Tom, i didn't realize the phasers and such had different ranges, but that does make sense, I'll have to give the game a try and see how it works. Even so though, i deffinately would like to see more tactical ship to ship combat, eg, different targiting stratogies to hit the enemy's power source or weapons, or to take down their shield to beam a team across. We see in the series that different combat tasks take very different tactics and power (indeed you'll probably know far more about this than I do), and I'd really appreciate a mission based startrek game that focused on this. For instance, finding an enemy in an asteroid field where lots of floating debris would make torpedos less useful and scanners work only at short range. You could either blow the asteroids away and hope to hit the enemy before they hit you, attempt a long range scan (but with lowered shields), or hunt carefully with your phasers. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Dark, Yes, Babylon 5 was a lot better put together than Deep Space 9 because they were not trying to graft a military/war plot onto a Utopian society where exploration had been the Federations main goal. Babylon 5 from the beginning was written and designed to be a much deeper plot from a military and political standpoint, and they pulled that storyline off very well. With Voyager I think the reason they pulled the Borg and Seven of Nine's character into the mix was to boost ratings which they certainly did. I admit I never missed an episode when the Borg were involved as they were my absolute favorite enemy. Unfortunately, through doing so they over used that as a plot device, and ended up neutralizing the Borg as a serious threat. In the final episode of Voyager, Final Gambit, Janeway came back through time and gave Voyager antiborg technology that wasn't to be developed for another 20 years. As a result when Voyager returned home the Federation now knew how to build weaponry and armaments that could stand up to the Borg. Plus added to that problem in Final Gambit Admiral Janeway also unleashed a virus directly into the Borg Queen that caused the entire Borg fleet to destroy itself. Even if it only effected one single Borg fleet its another proven weapon that can and probably would be employed again to destroy the Borg. It left the fate of the Borg in a rather questionable state. My point being that even if Paramount were to launch a new series that picked up where Voyager left off the Borg would never be the fearsome and super villains they once were back in TNG, Deep Space 9, and Voyager. They effectively wrote them off by developing new weapons and technologies that eliminated them as a serious threat to the Federation. However, over all Voyager set out to bring back what made the original Star Trek and Next Generation appealing, and it did that very well. They encountered new hostile races never seen before on the television series, and introduced new allies as well. Voyager was on their own so it had a combination of exploration/survival element to it. I only regret that there weren't that many Voyager books and video games written for the series, because I think third-party authors could have done much more to extend the history of their seven year voyage than was covered. As far as writing an accessible Voyager game goes I suppose it is possible. I've actually got quite a lot of sounds, music, and even voice clips from Voyager. Weather it would be enough to create a game or not would be questionable, but I think it could be done. Cheers! On 1/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. This is all true as regards startrek, indeed for the military and politics plot I think babylon 5 can't be beaten. for instance, in Babylon 5, the relations betwene the main races were not streight forward. The humans were a major power, but eventually fell into a military dictatorship with the show focusing on the now independent B5 and their relations with other races. The mimbari had their own religious concerns, but also had just come out opf a major war with the humans meaning relations betwene those two races were very strained, while the Sentari were a steadily declining power trying desperately to make alliances and regain lost ground (especially concerning their relations with the Narn). Then behind all of these you have the Vorlons and shaddows playing games and causing or preventing conflict. this lead to a lot of very complex relations betwene the different powers that just didn't seem to come up in Ds9. i think Startrek, having setup the Federation as pretty much a perfect utopian society with o classes much less a dictatorship,had rather a lot of trouble intigrating the sort of complex relations betwene different cultures with their history necessary to back up a war plot. while I did enjoy Ds9, it was primarily for the characters and their interactions than really any interest in the power struggle, where as babylon 5 the two were intimately connected. Voyager I really liked for the first three seasons, when you did! indeed have new aliens and interesting situations in a totally unknown region of space that challenged the crew out on their own, for example the alliance they had to make against the Kaison directly against federation policy, but one needed by necessity. This was distinctly the thing I always enjoyed in startrek. It however did seem after series three the plots got a little stale, certain characters such as Kim and Paris stopped evolving, and virtually every situation was solved by a deus x nano machina, ie, 7 of 9's nano probes (which i quite like 7 as a character, I got heartily sick of hereing we can modify her nano probes to solve this!). Plot aside though, the voyaging of voyager was fantastic, and something I'd love to see in a startrek game, actual new situations and challnges presented to the player out of the
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi tom. It's just that sort of thing which I'd love to see in a trek game, using the environment and the enemy tactics to your own advantage. I'm not sure how useable that would be with multiple ships, but for a single ship with missions it'd be great. heck, you could even have a plotline with a ship with an experimental phase cloak which you had to destroy, just like the experimental ships you fight in some of the lw missions. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 5:41 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi Dark, Yes, all of the weapons in Trek 2000 have a maximum range. The Tholian web generators, for example, only are effective under 2 units. that's why they have to move in extremely close before trapping you in a Tholian web. The photon torpedoes have an effective range of about 6. Although, I've hit enemies as far as 9 units away. Once you figure out what are the maximum attack range of each enemy you can pretty much build your tactics around that and shred their forces before they can do much damage to your fleet. As far as being in an asteroid field or debree field that would definitely present a number of challenges for both sides as long range sensors would be ineffective and short range sensors would be less effective. The various missions into the Bad Lands on Deep Space 9 really illustrated how any kind of space dust or space debree can lower the effectiveness of sensor scans and weapon performance. However, that can be as much a hindrance to the enemy as you. For example, the Romulans primarily base their tactics on stealth technology. The cloaking device can render a ship almost completely invisible but in order to do that they have to lower shields and draw power from the shield generators to maintain the cloak. Apparently the Klingons also have this vonerability in their own cloaking technology. As a result if a ship like that got hit by an asteroid or similar piece of debree it would be seriously damaged if not outright destroyed by the collision. So it would be hazardess for any enemy ship to enter an asteroid or debree field while cloaked. That alone takes away one serious advantage those enemy ships possess in any combat situation. Although, the Romulans do have a wild card that could come into play if we base this on the later seasons of TNG. Beginning in season 6 the Romulans were building a new device that could both phase and cloak a warbird at the same time. That would allow them to pass through asteroids and other space debree uneffected. However, that technology was also apparently unstable as the U.S.S. Pegasus was a shining example of what can and did go wrong when the phase technology wasn't working correctly. After season 6 of TNG I don't remember the phase technology being discussed on TNG, DS 9, or Voyager again. That leads me to believe it was an experimental piece of hardware that was never deployed throughout the Romulan Empire. Otherwise if the Romulans had it they certainly would have used it against the Dominion in the Dominion War. Plus Commander Sela's flagship, the Goraxus, didn't have phase-cloak technology in the season 7 episode where she captured La Forge further reinforcing my opinion that phase-cloak was experimental only. Cheers! On 1/13/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Ah Tom, i didn't realize the phasers and such had different ranges, but that does make sense, I'll have to give the game a try and see how it works. Even so though, i deffinately would like to see more tactical ship to ship combat, eg, different targiting stratogies to hit the enemy's power source or weapons, or to take down their shield to beam a team across. We see in the series that different combat tasks take very different tactics and power (indeed you'll probably know far more about this than I do), and I'd really appreciate a mission based startrek game that focused on this. For instance, finding an enemy in an asteroid field where lots of floating debris would make torpedos less useful and scanners work only at short range. You could either blow the asteroids away and hope to hit the enemy before they hit you, attempt a long range scan (but with lowered shields), or hunt carefully with your phasers. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi tom. that's fairly awsome, actually I've not played the game in a while myself so probably ought to give it another bash. My only problem however with the game, and indeed with trek 2000, is that the enemy always gets the first hit in, sinse the enemy come into range on your turn but fire on there's, which means that ninety percent of the time it's better to get around one of your starbases and fire away rather than use a direct attack in open space, indeed the only ship that can attack an enemy first is the Defiant with the cloaking device. This is another reason I'd like to see a trek game with a single ship, sinse that leaves room for more tactical combat, sinse afterall there were situations when starfleet had to fire first, such as when combating the borg. all the best, Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 3:32 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi all, After I posted the Trek 2000 soundpack I decided to install the game, and play it with the soundpack. Even after all these years of not playing Trek 2000 I can say I've still got the touch. That is I'm still a seriously competent Starfleet commander and all around good guy. I started up the game on the Bring Them On level expecting myself to be a bit rusty. I was, but not enough to effect the outcome of the war. I Started out by pulling my fleet together so I could hit the enemy as a single attack fleet. Unfortunately, that didn't quite happen as I had intended. It so happened that a Tholian starbase was not more than 10 units from Starbase 2 and three Tholians moved in to position to hit Starbase 2. U.S.S. Enterprise and Yorktown showed up in time to keep them from destroying the station and we made short work of the three Tholian creeps who thought they'd kick off the enemy offensive by taking out a Federation Starbase. Enterprise took up station near Starbase 2 while Yorktown started pumping phasers into the Tholian station. As expected two Tholians broke off their attack to save the Tholian station which was a faint on my part. Their mistake. I dropped a mine and warped out of range of their weapons. A move later both Tholian ships and the station were turned into space dust. The third Tholian moved in and attacked Enterprise and hit it with a Tholian web. Enterprise crippled the ship with 4500 units of phaser energy, and Yorktown finished him off with another 4000 units or so. Meanwhile Defiant managed to run head long into the main enemy battle fleet. Three Romulans, a Tholian, and four Klingon ships. Let's just say Defiant smoked two of the Romulans, but with that kind of odds Defiant's days were numbered. The other ships moved in and blew Defiant to pieces. Fortunately, Valiant wasn't far away and caught the enemy attack fleet unaware and blew away a Klingon ship, damaged a second, and one of the Romulan ships took some minor damage from phaser fire. To finish the job I dropped a mine and ran back to Starbase 1 for resupplies. Well, after a move or so the mine went off, destroyed the Romulan, toasted two Klingons, and damaged the fourth Klingon, the fourth Romulan, and Tholian. This not only knocked down their forces it gave Valiant time to reach the Starbase and reload up on energy, photons, and prepare to meet the battle fleet head on if need be. Given these odds I dispatched Yorktown to Starbase 1 to back Valiant up. Unfortunately, it never made it. For reasons unexplained the enemy fleet didn't chase Valiant to Starbase 1 and chose to intercept Yorktown as she made her way to Starbase 1. They got in some lucky shots, and Yorktown died from a well placed ambush. Now, by this time I'm boiling with a desire for revenge. I wait on station for the enemy fleet to arrive. Not surprising it was something of a slaughter. I blew away the last romulan and smoked the Klingon ship as they came in. I kept my energy levels at maximum waiting for the final Tholian to fall into my trap. He did. He trapped Valiant in a web, and knocked her shields down. In return both Valiant an Starbase 1 opened fire on the Tholian ship.The Tholian ship blew apart in a spectacular explosion and the war was over. Oh, I may have been rusty, but I'm still master of the game. In total it took me 28 moves to grind the enemy fleet down to size and eliminate all 12 enemy ships and one station. Given a few more moves I still had enough firepower to smoke some of the other enemy starbases too. The funny thing is most of the enemies were dispatched and destroyed by the U.S.S. Valiant. One single ship took out four Romulans, Four Klingons, and a Tholian ship. Without a doubt that makes Starfleet the best military fleet in the Alpha Quadrant. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Dark, Yeah, I know. That's truly one of the disadvantages to move based games like STFC or Trek 2000 is you can fly right into an armada of enemy ships and get destroyed without even having a chance to fire a shot. That happened tonight a couple of times and it was extremely frustrating. Especially, since I was handing their butts to them whenever I got a real chance to mix it up with the enemy fleets. My next Star Trek game will be more of a starship sym where you command a single vessel like the Enterprise and carry out various missions. Basically, what I am thinking of is something like Lone Wolf, but with a Star Trek type theme to it. In that way it will be more like the television series because you might have x number of missions to select from and play out in real time. Although, after having played Time of Conflict it would be cool to actually have a real time strategy Star Trek game where you command Starfleet and have to build and supply several ships. In a case like that you would have a variety of classes to build, each with specific functions, and you'd have to build planetary defenses around the home worlds of the Federation. You would have to manage fleet deployments and set up stations where you could easily block an incoming invasion. It would be very interesting to see a game like that. Cheers! On 1/12/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. that's fairly awsome, actually I've not played the game in a while myself so probably ought to give it another bash. My only problem however with the game, and indeed with trek 2000, is that the enemy always gets the first hit in, sinse the enemy come into range on your turn but fire on there's, which means that ninety percent of the time it's better to get around one of your starbases and fire away rather than use a direct attack in open space, indeed the only ship that can attack an enemy first is the Defiant with the cloaking device. This is another reason I'd like to see a trek game with a single ship, sinse that leaves room for more tactical combat, sinse afterall there were situations when starfleet had to fire first, such as when combating the borg. all the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi, MY biggest criticism has to be the way you can play it: if you just wait at a starbase, all your enemies come to you. Strategically I call that suicide. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:58 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi Dark, Yeah, I know. That's truly one of the disadvantages to move based games like STFC or Trek 2000 is you can fly right into an armada of enemy ships and get destroyed without even having a chance to fire a shot. That happened tonight a couple of times and it was extremely frustrating. Especially, since I was handing their butts to them whenever I got a real chance to mix it up with the enemy fleets. My next Star Trek game will be more of a starship sym where you command a single vessel like the Enterprise and carry out various missions. Basically, what I am thinking of is something like Lone Wolf, but with a Star Trek type theme to it. In that way it will be more like the television series because you might have x number of missions to select from and play out in real time. Although, after having played Time of Conflict it would be cool to actually have a real time strategy Star Trek game where you command Starfleet and have to build and supply several ships. In a case like that you would have a variety of classes to build, each with specific functions, and you'd have to build planetary defenses around the home worlds of the Federation. You would have to manage fleet deployments and set up stations where you could easily block an incoming invasion. It would be very interesting to see a game like that. Cheers! On 1/12/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. that's fairly awsome, actually I've not played the game in a while myself so probably ought to give it another bash. My only problem however with the game, and indeed with trek 2000, is that the enemy always gets the first hit in, sinse the enemy come into range on your turn but fire on there's, which means that ninety percent of the time it's better to get around one of your starbases and fire away rather than use a direct attack in open space, indeed the only ship that can attack an enemy first is the Defiant with the cloaking device. This is another reason I'd like to see a trek game with a single ship, sinse that leaves room for more tactical combat, sinse afterall there were situations when starfleet had to fire first, such as when combating the borg. all the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4138 - Release Date: 01/12/12 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
Hi Tom. While a stratogy sim would be fun, indeed if the customizations with the time of conflict engine which Phil reported come into being it might well be possible without too much trouble, I personally always felt the real point of startrek was a single ship flying around in space on their own encountering the unknown, or at least having to deal with alien powers who were not particularly human in their outlook or culture. this is why I'd so love a single ship, lw type of game. for space war plots, i always thought babylon 5 succeeded far more than even ds9 did, though that's perhaps a debate for another timme. Either way, it's the hole boldly going where no one has gone before in startrek that rather interested me, and I'd love to see a game that reflected more of that sort of aspect of things. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle
I Agree Haiden, again this is where time of conflict really has the right idea I think, sinse there you actually need! to go out and fight the enemy in numerically reasonable forces. While Trek 2000 was great for being possibly the first audio stratogy game, i think we've advanced sinse then, especially looking at castaways and time of conflict. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 5:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi, MY biggest criticism has to be the way you can play it: if you just wait at a starbase, all your enemies come to you. Strategically I call that suicide. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:58 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Great Trek 2000 Battle Hi Dark, Yeah, I know. That's truly one of the disadvantages to move based games like STFC or Trek 2000 is you can fly right into an armada of enemy ships and get destroyed without even having a chance to fire a shot. That happened tonight a couple of times and it was extremely frustrating. Especially, since I was handing their butts to them whenever I got a real chance to mix it up with the enemy fleets. My next Star Trek game will be more of a starship sym where you command a single vessel like the Enterprise and carry out various missions. Basically, what I am thinking of is something like Lone Wolf, but with a Star Trek type theme to it. In that way it will be more like the television series because you might have x number of missions to select from and play out in real time. Although, after having played Time of Conflict it would be cool to actually have a real time strategy Star Trek game where you command Starfleet and have to build and supply several ships. In a case like that you would have a variety of classes to build, each with specific functions, and you'd have to build planetary defenses around the home worlds of the Federation. You would have to manage fleet deployments and set up stations where you could easily block an incoming invasion. It would be very interesting to see a game like that. Cheers! On 1/12/12, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. that's fairly awsome, actually I've not played the game in a while myself so probably ought to give it another bash. My only problem however with the game, and indeed with trek 2000, is that the enemy always gets the first hit in, sinse the enemy come into range on your turn but fire on there's, which means that ninety percent of the time it's better to get around one of your starbases and fire away rather than use a direct attack in open space, indeed the only ship that can attack an enemy first is the Defiant with the cloaking device. This is another reason I'd like to see a trek game with a single ship, sinse that leaves room for more tactical combat, sinse afterall there were situations when starfleet had to fire first, such as when combating the borg. all the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4138 - Release Date: 01/12/12 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
