Re: Templating Solutions
On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 10:20:37AM +0100, Steve Purkis wrote: David Cantrell wrote: Seriously, I agree 100% that you should strive to seperate application from your presentation as much as possible, but seeing that you can not do this entirely, you may as well embed perl in your HTML and save yourself the trouble of inventing a whole new wheel. That sounds like a contradictory statement there I don't think so. Whilst you should seperate application and presentation as much as possible, it's a recognition that you'll never be able to *entirely* seperate them, and so seeing that you're going to have to have *some* code mixed in with your presentation, you may as well re-use an existing language instead of inventing a new one. of course the line will never be 100% clear cut-out... And as for inventing new wheels - well we're all coders scientists engineers here... That's what we do! Well yeah, and it's fun too, but in this case the new wheel is not necessary. And if I'm building this for your company, I think you'd rather I spent time writing a kick-ass application (which would of course be maintainable, extensible, scalable and all sorts of other laudable -ables) rather than spending the same amount of time writing a kick-ass mini-language (or learning someone else's mini-language) and a mediocre app. I see where you're coming from, but think about how this will be abused - coders will get lazy and eventually just embed all the business logic in the templates. Yes, they will. Unless you have proper procedures in place to prevent it. Luckily, perl makes it rather easy to encapsulate application logic elsewhere. I'd argue that embedding code in your templates is on the way out, and the sooner it goes the better. So how do you think it can be achieved? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: early peek at a bit of fun
On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 10:35:08AM +0100, Paul Mison wrote: On 18/06/2001 at 09:02 +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: Last I heard, we had at least one subscriber currently living in Australia. Leon, how about a london.pm world map :) Combine it with the (sadly mythical) IP2LL and it'd be easy. Just require that to join london.pm you must have a LOC record in your DNS. Ah hell, let's require HINFO as well. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: e-smith
On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 12:12:33PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: Tangentially on-topic for this list because of skud's involvement... What is this 'topic' of which you speak? I see that the new edtion of Linux Format comes with a copy of e-smith on the CD. According to the blurb, e-smith is a complete, easy to use and install server/gateway system that manages mail, firewalling, file-sharing, prinintg - everything you need from your server. Bleah. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: www.gateway.gov.uk
On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 02:00:32PM +0100, Mark Hynes wrote: On Jun 17, David Cantrell wrote: david@lapdog:~$ HEAD http://www.gateway.gov.uk|grep ^Server Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0 That, and EDS and Microsoft being involved. Ah, so primarily blind bigotism then. No, they're using software with a poor reputation, and having the site developed in conjunction with two companies with a poor reputation. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: Templating Solutions
On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 04:46:25PM +0100, Leo Lapworth wrote: I'd also like to mention HTML::Mason - Euuu, No, no and thrice no! (ok, has some nice 'bits' but NO - thou shalt not put thy HTML and thy Perl in the same file). It is NOT POSSIBLE to completely divorce presentation/application. So you end up with all sorts of languages made up to be mixed in with the presentation - like PHP and the mini-language of TT. Why are those OK (I'm thinking specifically of TT - we all know PHP sucks for other reasons) but plain ol' perl isn't? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: Templating Solutions
On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 08:24:13PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 07:54:36PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 04:46:25PM +0100, Leo Lapworth wrote: I'd also like to mention HTML::Mason - Euuu, No, no and thrice no! (ok, has some nice 'bits' but NO - thou shalt not put thy HTML and thy Perl in the same file). It is NOT POSSIBLE to completely divorce presentation/application. So you end up with all sorts of languages made up to be mixed in with the presentation - like PHP and the mini-language of TT. Why are those OK (I'm thinking specifically of TT - we all know PHP sucks for other reasons) but plain ol' perl isn't? Ohmigod, I'm agreeing with Cantrell on something!! What am I doing wrong? ;-) Seriously, I agree 100% that you should strive to seperate application from your presentation as much as possible, but seeing that you can not do this entirely, you may as well embed perl in your HTML and save yourself the trouble of inventing a whole new wheel. You can still stick your business logic elsewhere and have that called by the perl embedded in the templates. Despite having written an embedded perl templating system, I'm now very much in favour of one where the tags are just delimiters as far as possible. Thus I think things like HTML::Template are actually better than TT2, precisely because the toy language in TT2 is just as bad as embedding code. See my point about SQL, as it's related to this. Think of SQL as being a cross-language extension to the 'host' language and you'll feel much better about it :-) -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: www.gateway.gov.uk
On Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 12:49:50PM +0100, Mark Hynes wrote: On Jun 09, David Cantrell wrote: So yes, the only reason for not allowing me to use it is incompetence on the part of whichever civil 'servants' were in charge of implementing it. Out of interest, does anyone know if it's done in-house or contracted out? (I strongly suspect the latter) The latter. Via EDS and Microsoft, I believe. This incompetence is further manifested in their choice of platform. even if I *could* use it, I wouldn't use it anyway, as I do not have sufficient confidence in the integrity of the server for such important information as my (eg) medical and tax data. Err, why? What do you know about its implementation as opposed to any other government website? david@lapdog:~$ HEAD http://www.gateway.gov.uk|grep ^Server Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0 That, and EDS and Microsoft being involved. Note that whilst other government sites may suffer from the same problems, they are only sources of information and not places where I would submit any information which I need to have kept confidential. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
(Open|Net)BSD local root exploit
As there's plenty of BSDers here, and I expect that at least some of you don't subscribe to Bugtraq and friends ... http://www.securityfocus.com/vdb/?id=2873 -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: (Open|Net)BSD local root exploit
On Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 08:58:02PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: ... ADD discussion on the horizon ... So, anyone else up for some swords n' sorcery malarkey? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: YAPC::Europe
On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 09:17:53AM +0100, Dean wrote: Although i worked at Oven and hence can't organize a pissup in a brewery That's odd, I'm sure I remember Oven doing at least that one thing well! -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: early peek at a bit of fun
On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 09:49:24PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Leon Brocard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Greg McCarroll sent the following bits through the ether: It is a very alpha-ish cgi script that simply compiles a Leader Board of known London.pm people The modules list is a bit out of date in this case (I'm at eight)... the blame the module list maintainer , not me ;-) The list doesn't get updated that often - it was something like six months after Data::Hexdumper was submitted to the modules mailing list and bunged on CPAN before an updated list was issued. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: *Buffy's Not Included
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 11:19:10AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Roger Burton West wrote: DBD::CSV is your friend. I second that. DBD::CSV is yum. Also handles escaping of double quotes or commas when inserting strings, etc. Of course, the plain ol' CSV modules handle all the appropriate escaping too if you use them to build your CSV records. You do do that, right, and not try to write the files yourself? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: YAPC::Europe
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 07:46:56PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: So how many people are bringing partners to YAPC::Europe? Some of us can't afford YAPC. And some of us don't have partners :-( maybe we could have Yet Another Beer :: London at the same time then. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
BUG: Tie::Hash::Rank
I spotted a bug in Tie::Hash::Rank, which would break the DELETE and EXISTS methods. It's fixed in v 1.0.1 which is winging its way to CPAN as we speak. Oops. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Tie::Hash::Transactional
Go me! Tie::Hash::Transactional is written. It implements a hash which you can checkpoint and rollback. I'll put it on my website as soon as my victim^Wlovely volunteer tester has had a chance to play with it. It was disgustingly easy to write - took about an hour, most of which was writing the docs and the tests. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: Upcoming technical meeting
On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 04:28:14PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If this is because you don't have somewhere to stay on the Thursday night, I'm sure we can collectively find a way around that. If you bring your passport, we'll even let you south of the river and my sofa is very comfortable and has a well-stocked booze cabinet next to it. It's a TRAP! Curses! That was my cunning plan to acquire more victims for the Sun god, why'd you have to go and spoil it? I need a sacrifice to get this VT320 working. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: Upcoming technical meeting
On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 05:18:43PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 04:28:14PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: It's a TRAP! You been playing wy too much nethack recently. That was a tough level with comfy sofa and the drinks cabinet. Even tougher - there's ethernet to the sofa too. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Books
I'm having a clear-out of my bookshelves, and wonder if any of you lot want any of the following: Programming Perl (2nd ed) Learning Perl (1st ed) Photoshop in a nutshell and the less relevant ones: Amiga Workbench, and A500+ manual Autocad 12 for beginners Starting MS-DOS Assembler DataEase 4.5 manuals VB3Pro manuals VB Power Toolkit Database developers guide with VB3 AWT Programming for Java JDBC Database Access with Java -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: www.gateway.gov.uk
On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 01:54:01PM +0100, Robert Shiels wrote: From: Jonathan Stowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] As a public service I would exhort all of you to go to this site and then complain when it tells you that you are using an 'Unsupported Browser' (which I guess will be more than half of you :) I agree that this is pants. I don't see why I need cookies, javascript and Java enabled. But I don't fully understand digital certificates. Assume for a moment that I'm using lynx on Linux, and I want to send the government my tax return securely. What are the security implications, can it actually be done. I don't want to go off half-cocked and complain about something when I don't fully understand why the alternative is better. They also don't let you use Netscape on Linux, even with 128-bit encryption and all the other security goodies. That is just as secure as - if not better than - IE on Windows. So yes, the only reason for not allowing me to use it is incompetence on the part of whichever civil 'servants' were in charge of implementing it. This incompetence is further manifested in their choice of platform. even if I *could* use it, I wouldn't use it anyway, as I do not have sufficient confidence in the integrity of the server for such important information as my (eg) medical and tax data. Could someone explain it to me, and give me an address to send my complaint to, and I'll definitely do it. http://www.stand.org.uk should have the Fax My MP thing back soon. I have a long list of things to bother mine about, none of which he bothered to answer when I asked him during the election campaign. No surprise that I didn't vote for the little shit then. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: www.gateway.gov.uk
On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 02:09:23PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 02:06:24PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: So yes, the only reason for not allowing me to use it is incompetence on the part of whichever civil 'servants' were in charge of implementing it. And nothing to do with the deal struck between Microsoft and the government. No. I tend not to pay much attention to conspiracy theories. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Some pretty pictures ...
... and some not so pretty pictures. http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/london.pm/2001-06-07/ -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: Sony Clie (was: Re: Social meet)
On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 11:12:23AM +0100, Tony Kennick wrote: On a roughly related note, can anyone recommend somewhere to look for the following. 2) Cheep low end laptops. Basically don't need anything with a lot of zoom, just want to put linux on it to relieve train boredom. So my only real want is reasonably standard kit inside and battery life. Morgans, New Oxford St. They have a webshite too, but I disremember the address. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: tape changes
On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 08:59:32PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: On Tue, 05 Jun 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Question - how much data you got? tar.gzedded it comes to about 700 megs .. pour quoi? why arse with tapes when you can mirror? we did consider that .. and prior to 'arsing with tapes' that what we dun .. but it was eating at a not inconsderable rate into our meagre bandwidth allowance ... I take the point though ... Were you being careful to only back up that which needed to be backed up? Were you using rsync-over-ssh and not plain ol' scp? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: crazy golf
On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 02:31:39PM +, Redvers Davies wrote: Assuming you're not a Masai tribesperson. And assuming that the Romans weren't lying about the Celts (Though why would they want to do that?) It would seem to me to be counter-productive. If you want to conquer a country you don't spread rumours that they drink their victims blood. True, cos that would tend to unsettle your troops. However, as a post facto rationalisation, it's great. Look at how well off you are under your Roman overlords! Your kings no longer drink your blood! -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Good advice is always certain to be ignored, but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie
Re: General Election
On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 10:32:55AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: You'll have noticed, I hope, that next Thursday is both our June meeting and a General Election. I hope you'll all go and vote before the meeting so you don't have to dash off before the polling stations close :) Vote Early, Vote Often! Someone (Paul?) mentioned a couple of weeks ago that it might be nice if we could all go somewhere after the pub to watch the results come in and... er... celebrate another victory for the christian democrats. If anyone still thinks this is a good idea, then I'm happy to offer my house as a venue for this. I suggest we leave the pub at about 9:30pm and get the tube back to mine, stopping at Threshers en route. Sounds like a cunning plan. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: crazy golf
On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 01:10:22PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: blech has just informed me, its 27/8/2001, which would make the first annual grand London.pm crazy golf open on the 25/8/2001 ECLASHESWITHLBW -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: General Election
On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 02:24:57PM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: How about: The working class can kiss my arse I've got the foreman's job at last. Or The people's flag is deepest puce with fleurs de lys in pale chartreuse Pah! Sing to the Motherland, home of the free, Bulwark of peoples in brotherhood strong. O Party of Lenin, the strength of the people, To Communism's triumph lead us on! -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: General Election
On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 02:47:18PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: sing all you want, it will be you lot who have egg on your faces when a unionist/conservative coalition government is in power in a few weeks, ohhh yes Hmmmph. paul daniels if that happens, I'll leave the country /short annoying baldie -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: crazy golf
On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 01:40:38PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: Or make the Queen's Birthday celebrations be on a Monday and make that a bank holiday, if you have to wrap things up in pageantry. Only a very short term solution. What do you do when we become a republic? Then we have independence day, to celebrate the overthrowing of N hundred years of Dutch and German oppression. Yes, if I were a royalist, I'd be a Jacobite. [1] But you've got to admit, she does look good for her age. Yeah, well so would I if I HADN'T DONE A FUCKING DECENT DAY'S WORK IN MY LIFE. So *that's* the secret to your boyish good looks Dave! I knew there had to be *something* good about contracting :-) -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: OT,Joke : Forwarded from alt.humour.best.of.usenet
On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 02:10:39PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: Heh! Sounds like he should be talking to Mike Corley[1]. Is that fuckwit still going? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: I have my life back!
On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 03:02:49PM +0100, Tony Kennick wrote: recruitment mode Sorry to just randomly attack you like this after reading your mail to London.pm's list. But a) are you a Camra member and b) are you going to work the great British beer festival in London this summer and/or you interested in working/going to beer festivals in general? /recruitment mode And is anyone else going to the Glastonwick Beer Beer Poetry and More Beer Festival next weekend? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: more PDP-11s to rescue
On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:42:38PM -0400, Chris Devers wrote: At 11:07 AM 2001.05.25 +0100, Dave Cantrell wrote: Matthew Dell [snip] Austin, TX Any relation to that Mr Dell, of Austin, TX? Somewhat unlikely. Matthew is in England, it's Bill Bradford (him whose message I forwarded) that's in TX. IIRC, Bill has a couple of Vaxen he wants to get rid of to free up some space if that's the sort of thing that floats your boat. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
more PDP-11s to rescue
-- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh Got some equipment that needs saving. contact this guy directly and tell him I sent ya.. On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 07:00:01AM +0100, Matt Dell wrote: Dear mrbill, I have several (at least five) PDP11-83s available, following the demise of some parcel sortation systems; there may be some (possibly four) 11-73s as well. If pdp11.org or anyone you know of can make use of them, please contact me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] regards Matthew Dell -- Bill Bradford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Austin, TX ___ GEEKS: http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks
Re: wantarray and Tied Hashed
On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:15:44PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
Anyway, as I said before, you can work around it with
my @array = tied(%h)-FETCH('two');
If anyone is interested, Tie::Hash::Regex is currently winging its way to
your favourite CPAN mirror.
I wonder, could you do some magic with the calling stack so that your
FETCH can Do The Right Thing?
--
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/
Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system
in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: wantarray and Tied Hashed
On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:36:59PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: From: David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wonder, could you do some magic with the calling stack so that your FETCH can Do The Right Thing? Or, I could just accept that I'm a BAD MAN who is trying to PERVERT PERL in NASTY WAYS. No, you're confusing yourself with Damian :-) -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Decisions decisions
It seems that a PDP 11/73 is small enough to run at home. So do I get one or not? -- Dave the Indecisive
Re: Decisions decisions
On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 03:08:41PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Dean ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Ignore the heretic and his shouts of compare! swap! Embrace the siren call of the hardware. I would never ignore the heretic - if I did, he wouldn't introduce me to eccellent restaurants, and get me drunk and stuff. Don't encourage the spamrice hoarder, you know he is already too close to the edge ;-) /me falls off the edge fxaaa ... SPLAT/fx -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david If a job's worth doing, it's worth dieing for
Re: wantarray and Tied Hashed
On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:28:27AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
package Tie::Hash::Test;
sub FETCH {
print wantarray is , wantarray ? true\n : false\n;
return $_[0]-{$_[1]};
}
package main;
my %h;
tie %h, 'Tie::Hash::Test';
%h = (one = 1, two = 2);
my $scalar = $h{one};
my @array = $h{two};
This prints out wantarray is false on both accesses. To me, this implies
that Perl is doing something strange behind the scenes and is forcing the
FETCH call to always be in scalar context, when I'd expect the second call
to be evaluated in list context.
FETCH will indeed be called in scalar context. You can only store scalars
as hash values, and so you will never want to get an array out of them.
Even if you do:
my @array=@h{@multiple_keys}
FETCH will still be called once for each key, in scalar context.
--
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/
Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system
in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: wantarray and Tied Hashed
On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 12:28:39PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
Calling FETCH like this:
$scalar = tied(%h)-FETCH('one');
@array = tied(%h)-FETCH('two');
Does the 'right' thing. So it's certainly something in the tie interface.
Well yes, because you're just calling a plain ol' object method and so the
tie doesn't get a chance to work its magic.
--
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/
Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system
in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21
On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 06:00:53PM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Redvers Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.maff.gov.uk/animalh/int-trde/misc/foot/flyer.pdf About that flyer... FMD presents no risks to humans but is a serious threat to animal health. That is not strictly true... FMD is not a threat to animal health, the MAFF slaughters are. Well, up to a point. Dramatic reduction in yield + high chance of infertility == significant (indirect) risk to animal's health. Reduction in yield is not a threat to the animal's health. The infertility is temporary. It's interesting that farmers in north wales were getting ten quid a head for lambs las tyear, but are getting a hundred and twenty quid a head from the govt when they;re slaughtered now. Makes you think doesn't it. Who has a vested interest in the disease spreading? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
[announce] Tie::Hash::Rank
I've just put a complete version of Tie::Hash::Rank on my webshite for your enjoyment. I'd be grateful if some of you could download it and test it before I submit it to CPAN. http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/tech/Tie-Hash-Rank-1.0.tar.gz It has what I hope is a comprehensive test suite anyway, but many eyes make bugs leap out of the screen and bash me over the head :-) -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: [announce] Tie::Hash::Rank
On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 10:17:18PM +0200, Marcel Grunauer wrote: Looks good. Also works with Attribute::TieClasses (once I had replaced the '#!/usr/bin/perl -w' with 'use warnings', mysteriously). Perhaps because I have a 'no warnings' in T::H::R? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
[announce] Tie::Scalar::Decay v1.1.1
I have just uploaded v1.1.1 of Tie::Scalar::Decay which fixes a minor bug in v1.1. It was actually a bug in the test suite :-) which was assuming that the machine running the tests was a RTOS (or at least capable of responding in near real-time). Therefore, the final test, which gave sub-second delays a work-out, has been removed. I know it works anyway, as the now-excised fifth test works flawlessly on an otherwise-idle test box. Anyone got any RT patches for Linux/Sparc? :-) -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: TPC talk practice / technical meet
On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:34:21PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: Neil Ford sent the following bits through the ether: Will you be requiring a projector for this? Yes please! Will you be coming down or can we send someone to borrow your projector for the day? ;-) DAMNIT, will you lot PLEASE stop organising tech meetings for days when I can't make it! I'm going to be in Twyford (that's outside the M25, to the west, oo-arr) recovering from beer-and-punk induced illness. It's going to be a weird night. Some punk, but with a poet and a folk-singer as well. Hmmm. Oh, and I'll be going with a bunch of people who're into medieval battle re-enactments. They've promised not to take their broadswords and pole-axes. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: [gnat@frii.com: Damian Conway's Exegesis 2]
On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 01:26:17AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: I tried to use VB once. I kept thinking Why isn't this as good as Interface Builder is on NeXTSTEP? Actually, I find myself thinking that when I use almost any IDE... Heh. Same here, although if you discount Interface Builder, VB is very good indeed. I haven't done enough Delphi work to be qualified to talk about their interface, but first impressions were good. I like to think of VB and Java as doing the same sort of job. They're very good for the pretty interface bits, but need a Real Language to do the real work - C for VB, perl/python/C for Java. I was, however, thoroughly infuriated by Interface Builder on Mac OS X. It is not at all obvious how it should work with Project Builder. I am, however, more infuriated by OS X itself, and its updates which break everything. Grumble. Mutter. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david If a job's worth doing, it's worth dieing for
Re: Latest Perl Journal
On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:22:52PM +0100, Dean wrote: And is this a subscribers copy or one found in the wild? My copy turned up this morning, so presumably a subscribers copy. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Enough!
On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 09:57:03AM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: and before simon gets there: use Mail::Audit; Mail::Audit is for *weaklings*. My first act as Benevolent Dictator will be to ban it, and mandate procmail. I have been discussing this with my soon-to-be-announced Post and Telecoms Advisor, and we are considering funding the development of a procmail-a-like for snail-mail. It will be a delightfully Heath-Robinson mechanical whatsit which will clip on to the inside of your letter box, and will reject spam with GREAT VENGEANCE and FURY. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david
Re: Enough!
On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 12:15:32PM +0100, Martin Ling wrote: On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 12:04:24PM +0100, James Powell wrote: And if it's withheld, answer with a terse message and disconnect. No; many people withhold automatically, it a legitimate privacy concern. And me refusing to answer them is *my* legitimate privacy concern. I find that refusing to answer CLID-free calls, and using the answering machine, is a sufficient procphone. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Enough!
On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 12:38:16PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Simon Cozens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Now *this* is why I want programmable mobile phones. nokia 9210 Which is still, AFAIK, unobtainium. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Enough!
On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 01:15:57PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 12:43:59PM +0100, James Powell wrote: No; many people withhold automatically, it a legitimate privacy concern. That's what the terse message is for (reveal yourself, or bugger off). I suppose it could go to answerphone. Caller detect doesn't work for international calls either. I think this depends on the telcos. It works perfectly for calls between Vodafone and whatever GSM provider it is that covers NYC. Anyway, we accept imperfect mail filtering, we'll accept imperfect phone filtering. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Enough!
On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:08:31PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 01:38:26PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Ok, so you should have said Caller detect doesn't work for some international calls either. But, you see, if a call ID is withheld, you can't tell whether they're international calls with non-working caller detect or domestic calls from ex-directory/paranoid numbers. So filtering on withheldness is BAD BAD BAD. No it's not bad. They get filtered to the answering machine so I can deal with them later*. As far as I'm concerned, it's THEIR FAULT that I can't id them. I *really* don't care if their telco is broken. Everyone who I can envision needing to talk to me urgently (family, close friends) has CLID enabled. * - if I'm filtering. I'm not filtering at the moment. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Enough!
On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 08:59:32PM +0100, Martin Ling wrote: On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 05:43:52PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: nokia 9210 Which is still, AFAIK, unobtainium. I know someone who knows someone who has a test model - I'll prod on programmability. Greg has (had?) one to play with. It is programmable. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: BOFHs requiring license
On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 09:51:37AM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Actually, a hereditary democratic hereditary democratic - an oxymoron, surely. chamber such as the (old) house of lords strikes me as being a pretty good system. Swapping 'randomly selected' for hereditary would be a small improvement, possibly. Swapping 'selected by Tony Blair after consultation with his own sycophantic smile' for hereditary strikes me as pretty stupid, corrupt and evil. Cough. swapping any politician for Tony Blair likewise. Random selection for the upper house seems reasonable. Of course, just like with jury service, people would desperately try to get out of it. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)
On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:45:45AM +0100, Matthew Jones wrote: Part of the reason why they haven't delivered the promises that I think are important (decent public services) is because they've hamstrung themselves with this clueless tory low-tax approach. I genuinely believe that the public are sick of watching the NHS, education system etc wasting away on a starvation diet and would be willing to pay a bit of extra tax to make sure that their kids can get schooled and that their sick can be healed. Unfortunately, you have to remember that most people are idiots. They want all these services and they might even be willing to have taxes put up to pay for them *but* they don't want to pay those higher taxes themselves. This is why we should abolish democracy. We need a benevolent dictator. Obviously we can't vote for our dictator (not only is democracy too flawed, but then it wouldn't be a dictator either) so I hereby appoint myself. I appoint Greg as my Culture Adviser and as head of the church. Any volunteers for my other minions? Even if you don't want a cabinet post, please feel free to volunteer as a Henchman. You'll get 25 days holiday a year, a nice uniform and a free Hench. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)
On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 11:44:11AM +0100, Matthew Jones wrote: The tories are going to have low tax and pay for improved public services through cracking down on benefit fraud, apparently. Gah, if only someone had thought of that before. 'Cos you can solve a long-term underfunding problem by skinting out a few dodgy crusties. You're forgetting that the Tories tried (and failed) to crack down on benefit fraud for ten years. That therefore makes them ideally suited to trying again. They learnt from their mistakes, right? Surely they're not s stupid as to *not* learn from their mistakes? And they do have proof that there really is that much 'benefit fraud' out there? There must be a good reason for them to have never shown this proof to anyone else, right? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: BOFHs requiring license
On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:37:23AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: Oh, and Churchill was an arsehole. As the population worked out in the 1945 General Election. Anyone responding with nonsense about him winning the second world war will be given a history lesson :) Isn't it interesting that Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, de Gaulle and Churchill were all 'charismatic' leaders. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)
On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:11:13PM +, Steve Mynott wrote: Well one advantage of BP or Shell is if you don't like either company then you can simply choose not to purchase their products. So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)
On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:05:06PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: On Mon, 14 May 2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:11:13PM +, Steve Mynott wrote: Well one advantage of BP or Shell is if you don't like either company then you can simply choose not to purchase their products. So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel? use the tube and electric trains? Most power stations aren't oil fired AFAIK. Right, and how do I eliminate plastics from my life? And drugs, and all the other million and one things which are made with their products? How do I get home after the trains have stopped? And how do I ensure that my privately run waste disposal service doesn't use them? Or my childrens' privately run school? In summary - libertarians' claims that customers can choose not to use $company's products if they dislike the company are patently absurd. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: OT - Perl
On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:29:41AM -0500, will wrote: Has anyone seen some perl around here? I thought I saw some earlier but it sems to have gone now :-) I think I saw perl last week, but it got miffed at the lack of camel action and went home. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Cult leaders (was: a subject line with no relevance to what was being discussed)
On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:22:25PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Perhaps the difference between your set of leaders and mine, is that the ones you mentioned all had personality cults to a degree, although in the case of Churchill I wouldn't have said so. There certainly seems to be one around his memory now :-( And of the ones I listed, I would have thought de Gaulle was far weaker than Churchill in the personality-cult stakes. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: BOFHs requiring license
On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 03:45:21PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote: But given that the Socialist Alliance are only standing in ~100 constituencies, there doesn't seem to be any credible alternative. http://www.socialistalliance.net/constituencies/constitlist.htm for the complete list. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: BOFHs requiring license
On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 05:22:49PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: ok i reserve the right to quit this thread at any time, however But hasn't `new' labour's example shown that there is no place for socialism in modern government? Hasn't their move to capitalism been really a well spun admission of defeat? How can any socialist not feel that when it came to the crunch socialism was rejected by intelligent people who understood its principals and benefits intimitadly because they could see it would not work for modern Britain? Alternatively ... the Labour Party is not and never has been socialist, but they at least used to embrace some of the same policies as socialists do. Being in reality just another form of Social Democratic party, they decided that it was in their best interests to pander to the dribbling morons who believe what they read in the tabloid press, and so ditched any remaining hints of socialism and became just another Tory party*. Although without such a witless and ineffectual leader. I have no intention of voting for Bliar or for Vague. If there were a party standing here on a platform of devolution/independence (such as an alliance of the SNP, Plaid Cymru, and some (currently non-existent) English equivalent, they'd get my vote. Do the Lib Dems think along these lines? No-one knows cos the LDs have never seemed to have any policies ever. * - although clearly not quite as evil as the real thing. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: see attachment
On Sat, May 12, 2001 at 11:49:05AM -0400, Alex Page wrote: How about a movie set in a post-holocaustic London where the surviving Perl Mongers are desperately trying to survive against the hordes of radiation-addled Java Zombies, and locate the few remaining stashes of beer and bandwidth? Evil Dead - the Language of Darkness. Or some kind of bizzaro martial arts fest pitching the Heretics against the True London.pm'ers (tm)... And has someone stolen our Illustrious Leader's Secret Manual? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Bah!
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:54:04AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: David Cantrell wrote: http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/cv I was going to post I can't open that in Microsoft Word; please re-send it as a joke, but when I tried to open the PDF version using the Acrobat plug-in in Netscape, I got an internal error occurred and some of the letters were missing. Serves you right for not getting the raw Postscript :-) I've put plain-text and HTML versions up as well now. Bow down before the awesome power of TeX! -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Bah!
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:22:45AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: Do you write it in raw Tex/LaTeX, or do you generate that from some other format (like, perhaps, XML)? I'd be interested in seeing the intermediate stages. Ahh, now that would be telling :-) Oh alright then, I used lyx to generate the outline - getting all the headers and tables sorted, then exported as LaTeX and edited from there. thinks has anyone done TeX goodness with Template Toolkit? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Bah!
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:22:47AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: I find that pdftotext (part of xpdf) does a remarkably good job of letting you know what a pdf file has to say, without bothering with all that tedious formatting... ;-) I particularly like the way it turns 'film-making' into '[greek-pi]-making'. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Bah!
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 01:05:19PM +0100, Steve Keay wrote: On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 05:04:23PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: I've been made redundant. Anyone want an Evil Programmer? http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/cv funky server set up: [steve@webcache steve]$ telnet www.cantrell.org.uk 80 Trying 195.149.50.61... Connected to plough.barnyard.co.uk. Escape character is '^]'. GET /david/cv/cv.pdf HTTP/1.0 HTTP/1.1 404 Complete fuckup Yes, you did fuck up :-) It's cv20010510.pdf. I s'pose I should update my funky-skillo redirection thing. Thanks for the reminder. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Bah!
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 01:38:10PM +0100, Robert Price wrote in response to little ol' me: It's cv20010510.pdf. I s'pose I should update my funky-skillo redirection thing. I must remember to start calling symlinks that. It sounds far more impressive. Naah, it's not just a symlink. I have a custom 404 handler which looks for pages similar to what you asked for based on a small database of things which may have changed. I haven't updated it recently, but will do. I'll make it so that requests for .../cv.foo get translated to .../cv[latest-version].foo. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: Bah!
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 01:43:39PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: At 13:37 10/05/01 +0100, you wrote: Naah, it's not just a symlink. I have a custom 404 handler which looks for pages similar to what you asked for based on a small database of things which may have changed. I haven't updated it recently, but will do. I'll make it so that requests for .../cv.foo get translated to .../cv[latest-version].foo. HTTP::Approx anyone? OK, maybe I *won't* do that then :-) -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: O Brother (was Re: Buffy musings ...)
On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 03:42:49PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Nathan Torkington ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Ob Porn: You can see a nipple and curve of a breast through a wet shirt if you look in the right place. This is exactly the sort of thing that gives London.pm a bad name, I have to agree. It's *disgusting* that someone could possibly think that that is pornographic. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
[OT] Anyone want a Defender?
I've got bored with my Defender, so am selling it. Anyone interested? ObLondon.pm: defender beats watching buffy on the stupid-box any day of the week. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh
Re: cocktails
On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 09:25:16PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: Oh, and I'm feeling generous, so I'll buy a drink for the first person to place the quote in my .signature ;-) Now if only I could find a copy of this... ... Did you know there's a guy living in our closet? Real Genius. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: Stuffed camel
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 10:00:44AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: As a side note, when we do get it together, would it be alright to come along as an ordinary paying zoo entrant? Or does being a camelite confer extraordinary priviliges within the confines of the zoo? Yes, we get to ride the camel and take it to conferences! -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: Not Matt's Scripts
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 12:22:39PM +0100, Simon Batistoni wrote: Of course, this comes back to the fact that the user will need to have control of/know where the NT mailer exists, but I believe most NT hosting services do install blat, and tell people where it is. If the purpose of this is to make it utterly drool-proof, then why not re-write File::Find (can't make them install it of course, that would be expecting too much) so that it finds their mailer for them. We'd have to re-write Digest::MD5 too, so that we could compare the found file with a signature just in case someone has been messing with filenames. Wouldn't want to accidentally start Back Orifice instead of blat. Yeah, silly isn't it. That's what happens when you aim for the lowest common denominator. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: US$ bank account
On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 10:03:12AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Anyone know of a bank that will let non US residents have a workable US$ account with dollar credit card and check (narf) book? Pretty nearly any UK high st bank will open accounts in funny money. There's usually a minimum balance, but US$10K just sounds silly. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:21:35AM +0100, Roger Burton West wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: actually .. nutscrape under Linux annoys me when it insists on looking up a hostname no matter how hard you click on the stop button .. bad threading. Excellent reason to use a proxy. Junkbuster's good... Junkbuster++ I don't use it for busting junk, but because I can quickly and easily change its settings with a shell script, instead of having to fuck around in Netscape's menus to change proxies. I really just use it as a mere proxy, either going straight to the rest of the net or via ssh port forwarding to another proxy elsewhere. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:50:50PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: Long dark hair, ankhs and beer - the Egyptions were the original goths. Hmmph. Goths wouldn't know good beer if it grabbed them by the goolies and swung them round over its head whilst shouting I'm good beer, I'm good beer, and if you disagree I'll cut your head off and shit down your neck Anyway, what the Egyptians brewed was barely recognisable as beer. -- David Cantrell, Drunk, and blaming Earle off of (void).
Boozers in Dublin
Can any of you boozy reprobates recommend a boozer in Dublin for a geeky piss-up? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete PGP signature
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:26:04PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:25:23PM +0100, Barbie wrote: I always knew Manchester was the centre of the Universe. Ahem. I suggest you go look at the entry for NY.pm at http://www.pm.org/groups/north_america.shtml :-) Yes yes, that's OK. We'll permit the colonials to have their little delusions. We all know that The Bronze is the centre of the universe. -- David Cantrell | Not particularly a Biffy fan at all | Gimme Willow Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: DBD::*-bind_param() ?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:16:32PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:45:40AM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: It helps a lot (and is also blindingly easy to benchmark yourself ;-). Clearly says someone who's hasn't installed Oracle recently! Does anyone? Every time I've used Oracle, it's been installed by someone else who was supposedly an expert. Although I remain to be convinced that any of them really *was* an expert. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 06:52:59PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: http://www.flemingbank.com/ crap website, but I think it sums em up. Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it whatsoever. If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such manifest incompetence. And [EMAIL PROTECTED] bounces. Oh dear. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 07:13:50PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: http://www.flemingbank.com/ crap website, but I think it sums em up. Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it whatsoever. If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such manifest incompetence. well apart from a crap website, they are a good very bank ... personally I'd rather they put their efforts into banking rather than web design ... its just a fad after all. Yeah, but only testing it on one browser, ignoring the - what, 30%? - that don't use IE - that's kinda silly. And unprofessional. Sure, the bank no doubt subcontracted the work to some numijahors, but that they accepted and launched it like that does raise concerns about their quality control. I did go on to look at it using IE, for I know that first impressions can be misleading, and the site still sucks - it's hard to find any way of getting feedback to them electronically, for example - but if using IE, it doesn't suck much more than any other corporate site. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: http://www.flemingbank.com/ crap website, but I think it sums em up. Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it whatsoever. If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such manifest incompetence. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs
On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 04:27:42PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 12:28:42PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Don't forget that even if you could automatically change the API over, you'd still have to change all the SQL in the API as well. Which is probably just as difficult a task, given how much SQL can vary from product to product... IME, the SQL only significantly varies when you're doing the kind of SQL that could earn you a serious DBA label or you're working in a bank. MySQL has fairly limited SQL capabilities which mapping onto Oracle shouldn't be hard. The reverse obviously isn't true. Trouble is, they all have non-standard extensions, which are *really* handy and which you *will* use if you don't know any better. For example, MySQL has AUTO_INCREMENT fields which are dead useful for id fields; the closest Oracle equivalent would be using a sequence. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs
On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 12:50:05PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote: On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, David Cantrell wrote: Trouble is, they all have non-standard extensions, which are *really* handy and which you *will* use if you don't know any better. For example, MySQL has AUTO_INCREMENT fields which are dead useful for id fields; the closest Oracle equivalent would be using a sequence. Why you say don't know better, what should I use instead of this. The portable way to do it is the slow way. That's why the vendors went and extended the language. The real problem is that they generally don't document very well what's standard and what's proprietary, so you need to be familiar with at least a couple of rdbms's to know what's what. TBH though, I would use postgresql instead of mysql anyway. It's far more capable, but is also closer to the Oracle way of doing things. Is there any sensible way to do this in bog standard SQL that won't have a massive perfomance hit on mysql? Unfortunately no. You'd have to: LOCK the table SELECT the maximum id currently in use and add one INSERT with that id UNLOCK the table so all your other queries will block until the table is unlocked. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: More Natives
On Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 02:22:45PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Marcel Grunauer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Data munging--- bah. Munging? If you note AOL dictionary... The only definition is for mung bean. Maybe this just says something about the AOL dictionary. /me throws his copy of the OED in the bin, favouring the much more 31337 AOL dictionary. [1] /me had to look something up in a dictionary last night, and was not at all impressed when not only did the OED not have the information I was after (I wanted the Latin name of a particular plant) - it didn't have the flipping thing at all! OK, this was the CD version, so at only 650Mb it can't be as comprehensive as the seventeen ton four mile long Real Thing, but it's a reasonably common word and bloody well should have been in there. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: [OT] Flecktones in London next month
On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 04:04:55PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, you wrote: They have *the* best electric bass player in the entire world, ummm ... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that honour bestowed on Norman Watt Roy ? Clive off of (void) told me to mention Billy Sheehan, Stu Hamm and Jaco Pastorius and see what happened :-) -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david The voices said it's a good day to clean my weapons.
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 10:29:03AM +0100, Jon Galliers wrote: I know you're all probably bored with this, but I was even more bored and checked out the site further (Although "Chris"'s website http://storedscripts.virtualave.net/ is quite, um, entertaining ...) Not bad for a 13 year old though Hmmm ... if 'not working at all' is the same as 'not bad'. All I get is the title image. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Komodo
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 10:56:51AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Paul Mison [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You also get ProjectBuilder IDE. http://developer.apple.com/tools/projectbuilder/ Which is very nice. Or at least it was, back when it was NeXTSTEP. I had a little play with it last night, and it's still not bad. Only supports C/C++/Java though. I can't figger out how to get the Interface Builder to work with my project, so will have to read the docs. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 11:26:52AM +0100, Jonathan Stowe wrote: "And I can program better than you any day of the week. Bring it on if you want a challange. I will totally blow you and any supporter away in a programming match." I think I should take him up on it - who said life was fair :) Can I be the impartial adjudicator? Oh please! -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Beginners Guide
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:06:02PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: hard to say [BBC channels] are normally given free if you subscribe to one premier channel If your telly has a built-in digital decoder, then the BBC channels will be free, and you won't need cable or a satellite dish. IANABBCE and IANADTVE -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:59:51AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:52:58AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: No, I mean "unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which, despite us only supporting a limited number of systems to make it This is specious. The ad is running for an iMac, whose OS is 9.1. The iMac is one of the platforms supported by OS X. In fact, CD burning doesn't work under OS X on *any* machine and isn't shipped pre-installed on any machine, so by your argument, it is wrong to complain about it being non-functional anywhere. That doesn't make sense to me. easier for us to write all the drivers etc, we still couldn't be arsed to complete". Who said "release early, release often". Apple are doing the right thing, IMO. When I release early, release often, I don't expect people to pay for the privelege. I knew when OS X was originally released that it lacked CDRW support, and I didn't complain (much). However, that it *still* lacks it is inexcusable. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Komodo
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:58:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl, shurely? It's more because I have a nicely working perl installation right here, which sits happily in my system's package management system, and I'm not going to mess with it without a *really* good reason. I also refuse to let myself be led down a route which may restrict my ability to upgrade easily in the future. I just did 'sudo rpm -Uvh perl*.rpm' and went from 5.6.0 to 5.6.1, with not a single problem. I doubt it'll be that easy with Activestate and I don't want to find out the hard way that it isn't. They *must* work with any old perl distro (of the right version, of course) or even one that $user has compiled from sources, if they are to be taken seriously. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453 JS! stop it i'm replying! LOL at Greg's post. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:20:51PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote: bk:http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk Chris: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris ROFLMAO! and for your edification, 'chris' just wrote in reply to jns: " And I can program better than you any day of the week. Bring it on if you want a challange. I will totally blow you and any supporter away in a programming match. " -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:55:20PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote: One does have to wonder about someone called [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-) Kinda say's it all Yeah, psy-cop I can understand, but what on earth is rograming, and why would he want to do it to psy-cops? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: The Most Boring Thread Ever on London.pm : Cool Letter Heads
On Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 08:26:55PM -0500, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: Damian Conway [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: Hecate was the goddess of the night, of magic, and travel at night. She was a cousin of Zeus, and dwelt quietly in the Underworld. Hecate was the daughter of Zeus in another treatment of the history though everyone at some point was spawn of Zeus it would seem. And in yet another history, she was the daughter of the titans Perses and Asteria. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ This is a signature. There are many like it but this one is mine. ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Errors Building HTML::Parser on AIX
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 02:12:14PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: I'm having trouble building HTML::Parser on an AIX box. It's the first time I've tried to build and install an XS module, so it's quite possible that it's a wider issue. t/unbroken-text.Can't load 'blib/arch/auto/HTML/Parser/Parser.so' for module HTML::Parser: dlopen: blib/arch/auto/HTML/Parser/Parser.so: A file or directory in the path name does not exist. at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.00502/aix/DynaLoader.pm line 168. Running ls -l blib/arch/auto/HTML/Parser/Parser.so shows that the file exists and is readable. What does file(1) tell you about that, and about a *working* loadable module somewhere in the perl distribution? The build process seems to be using IBM's own C compiler rather than gcc. Which compiler was used to build perl? And which libraries did it use - IBM's, or GNU's? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ This is a signature. There are many like it but this one is mine. ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Komodo
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 05:57:17PM +0100, Dean wrote: I just downloaded and had a play with the release version 1.0 of Komodo for Windows (The Linux one is still in the RC phase) and i have to say that I'm impressed. Has anyone got an views on it or the Linux version? I haven't looked at it, but will. However, it does look from the web pages as if it requires me to download Activestate's distribution of perl. This is a Bad Thing. If it turns out that I can use my existing 5.6, then I'll give it a go, but if I have to fuck around, I won't bother. Methinks Activestate are too much in the Windows world, and need to learn about "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Komodo
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 07:17:37PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 07:12:32PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: Methinks Activestate are too much in the Windows world I note that the Linux distribution of Kodomo contained complete distributions of Mozilla, Perl and Python. /me cancels the download, suggests Activestate acquire some Clue -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
