maya Split Edge tool broken?
An update to my split edge problem. Well, it still sucks, but I'm trying NEX again (I've only played with it a few years ago), and the multi-cut and connect works like 2014 tools. They do what they are supposed to ! (history is useless though). The tweak tool though, it bugs sometimes (toggling the tweak checkbox seems to fix it). I was trying also Diamant Tools and its grab tool is awesome! but I don't really need the rest of the tools. I think I'll buy NEX just to have a decent M key and a working split tool (multi-cut). Cheers Martin
still waiting
Updating Autodesk Maya 2015 validating install. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. for a 270Mb 'patch' it sure takes a sh1t ton of validation!!! im SURE it's worth it :-/ Adrian Wyer Fluid Pictures 75-77 Margaret St. London W1W 8SY ++44(0) 207 580 0829 adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com blocked::blocked::blocked::blocked::mailto:adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com www.fluid-pictures.com blocked::blocked::blocked::blocked::http://www.fluid-pictures.com/ Fluid Pictures Limited is registered in England and Wales. Company number:5657815 VAT number: 872 6893 71
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Graham dont take it personal. It's maya... We don't like it, we probably will need a lot of time to start accepting it and maybe at some point some here gonna agree that what maya offers is good. But right now, the cons of maya are just hitting artists day in day out ;) 2014-09-10 2:35 GMT+02:00 Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com: On 09/09/14 17:29, Graham Bell wrote: Personally, I thought I did a great job, but if you guys want to spin it into something it wasn’t, I guess that’s your prerogative. G Oh didn't know you had a take on that event. But no doubt yourself and everyone (many well known names) did a great job, and nothing suggests it was a bad event in any way, well to the contrary! It actually looked very informative and like a great opportunity to objectively assess how thing were with lots of perspective with many users very well versed with their tools. Which seems to have been a success at doing just that, in a candid and positive setting, But if the resulting seemingly very fair, accurate and impartial report also confirms a number of things (almost everything) we all knew already (both pros cons), I wouln't associate the highlighting of these things to 'spinning'. I don't think anything suggested here has been unfair, out of place, or not the case. .. except maybe the 'killing the wrong product' bit.. cause in NO circumstance could there ever be any justification to *forcibly* prevent ANY fairly widely used product from being used, regardless if (but -especially- if) that product was unique. (pretty darn unique in this case)
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Has been 3 months now I've switched to Maya... Skin weighting is the worst offender, and being an artist being forced to code your own stuff because Maya lacks some features its really a huge pain... However I expected my experience to be worse, even if I found myself stuck sometimes for very stupid reasons, because Maya lacks some elementary stuff, and I found all this baffling... Could be worse, thats what I keep repeting myself...but I miss Softimage so much and for technical reason I cannot use it together with Maya...which will save lot of time...a shame really... 2014-09-10 12:01 GMT+02:00 Mario Reitbauer cont...@marioreitbauer.at: Graham dont take it personal. It's maya... We don't like it, we probably will need a lot of time to start accepting it and maybe at some point some here gonna agree that what maya offers is good. But right now, the cons of maya are just hitting artists day in day out ;) 2014-09-10 2:35 GMT+02:00 Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com: On 09/09/14 17:29, Graham Bell wrote: Personally, I thought I did a great job, but if you guys want to spin it into something it wasn’t, I guess that’s your prerogative. G Oh didn't know you had a take on that event. But no doubt yourself and everyone (many well known names) did a great job, and nothing suggests it was a bad event in any way, well to the contrary! It actually looked very informative and like a great opportunity to objectively assess how thing were with lots of perspective with many users very well versed with their tools. Which seems to have been a success at doing just that, in a candid and positive setting, But if the resulting seemingly very fair, accurate and impartial report also confirms a number of things (almost everything) we all knew already (both pros cons), I wouln't associate the highlighting of these things to 'spinning'. I don't think anything suggested here has been unfair, out of place, or not the case. .. except maybe the 'killing the wrong product' bit.. cause in NO circumstance could there ever be any justification to *forcibly* prevent ANY fairly widely used product from being used, regardless if (but -especially- if) that product was unique. (pretty darn unique in this case)
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
I am quite curious as to why there are so many people transitioning to maya if you all find it such a pain... Weren't there discussions of numerous alternatives being available, i know each software has its pitfalls, and probably the main argument to this is, most jobs are done in maya. But do you want to end up at a job where all you can expect is overtime and headaches due to your tool falling apart when it matters the most? On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:18 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: didn't want to chime in on this thread, but can'tresist... Graham, we know that as an autodesk representative, you have to, at least to some extent, tow the party line but you have to face facts, we as Softimage users have had this situation forced upon us by a seemingly uncaring software behemoth it will take YEARS for the resentment to fizzle out just because the list has settled down of late (it's disappointingly like a ghost town in here most days) it doesn't mean the embers of our collective anger aren't still glowing away occasionally, for many months to come, they will flare up I welcome the initiative to help artists move across to maya, even seen as a purely financial one from the point of the company that makes the 'other' software And i'll be honest, for every 10 things that i find, while stumbling blindly through the maya minefield, that are infuriating, there are usually a couple that are pleasantly surprising it's not 'all' bad! i guess what i'm saying is keep up the initiatives, hold people's hands through this unwelcome transition, and in the long term, they'll appreciate it but don't expect users not to throw abuse occasionally when you stick your head above the parapet! cheers a -- *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Mario Reitbauer *Sent:* 10 September 2014 11:02 *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios Graham dont take it personal. It's maya... We don't like it, we probably will need a lot of time to start accepting it and maybe at some point some here gonna agree that what maya offers is good. But right now, the cons of maya are just hitting artists day in day out ;) 2014-09-10 2:35 GMT+02:00 Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com: On 09/09/14 17:29, Graham Bell wrote: Personally, I thought I did a great job, but if you guys want to spin it into something it wasn’t, I guess that’s your prerogative. G Oh didn't know you had a take on that event. But no doubt yourself and everyone (many well known names) did a great job, and nothing suggests it was a bad event in any way, well to the contrary! It actually looked very informative and like a great opportunity to objectively assess how thing were with lots of perspective with many users very well versed with their tools. Which seems to have been a success at doing just that, in a candid and positive setting, But if the resulting seemingly very fair, accurate and impartial report also confirms a number of things (almost everything) we all knew already (both pros cons), I wouln't associate the highlighting of these things to 'spinning'. I don't think anything suggested here has been unfair, out of place, or not the case. .. except maybe the 'killing the wrong product' bit.. cause in NO circumstance could there ever be any justification to *forcibly* prevent ANY fairly widely used product from being used, regardless if (but -especially- if) that product was unique. (pretty darn unique in this case)
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Some of people are working in places where they cannot choose their software but work with what is given :) On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Ognjen Vukovic ognj...@gmail.com wrote: I am quite curious as to why there are so many people transitioning to maya if you all find it such a pain... Weren't there discussions of numerous alternatives being available, i know each software has its pitfalls, and probably the main argument to this is, most jobs are done in maya. But do you want to end up at a job where all you can expect is overtime and headaches due to your tool falling apart when it matters the most? On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:18 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: didn't want to chime in on this thread, but can'tresist... Graham, we know that as an autodesk representative, you have to, at least to some extent, tow the party line but you have to face facts, we as Softimage users have had this situation forced upon us by a seemingly uncaring software behemoth it will take YEARS for the resentment to fizzle out just because the list has settled down of late (it's disappointingly like a ghost town in here most days) it doesn't mean the embers of our collective anger aren't still glowing away occasionally, for many months to come, they will flare up I welcome the initiative to help artists move across to maya, even seen as a purely financial one from the point of the company that makes the 'other' software And i'll be honest, for every 10 things that i find, while stumbling blindly through the maya minefield, that are infuriating, there are usually a couple that are pleasantly surprising it's not 'all' bad! i guess what i'm saying is keep up the initiatives, hold people's hands through this unwelcome transition, and in the long term, they'll appreciate it but don't expect users not to throw abuse occasionally when you stick your head above the parapet! cheers a -- *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Mario Reitbauer *Sent:* 10 September 2014 11:02 *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios Graham dont take it personal. It's maya... We don't like it, we probably will need a lot of time to start accepting it and maybe at some point some here gonna agree that what maya offers is good. But right now, the cons of maya are just hitting artists day in day out ;) 2014-09-10 2:35 GMT+02:00 Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com: On 09/09/14 17:29, Graham Bell wrote: Personally, I thought I did a great job, but if you guys want to spin it into something it wasn’t, I guess that’s your prerogative. G Oh didn't know you had a take on that event. But no doubt yourself and everyone (many well known names) did a great job, and nothing suggests it was a bad event in any way, well to the contrary! It actually looked very informative and like a great opportunity to objectively assess how thing were with lots of perspective with many users very well versed with their tools. Which seems to have been a success at doing just that, in a candid and positive setting, But if the resulting seemingly very fair, accurate and impartial report also confirms a number of things (almost everything) we all knew already (both pros cons), I wouln't associate the highlighting of these things to 'spinning'. I don't think anything suggested here has been unfair, out of place, or not the case. .. except maybe the 'killing the wrong product' bit.. cause in NO circumstance could there ever be any justification to *forcibly* prevent ANY fairly widely used product from being used, regardless if (but -especially- if) that product was unique. (pretty darn unique in this case)
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
btw even showing that some tasks will take couple time less to be completed you can easily talk to the wall as well so stick and hurt yourself int here ;) On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com wrote: Some of people are working in places where they cannot choose their software but work with what is given :) On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Ognjen Vukovic ognj...@gmail.com wrote: I am quite curious as to why there are so many people transitioning to maya if you all find it such a pain... Weren't there discussions of numerous alternatives being available, i know each software has its pitfalls, and probably the main argument to this is, most jobs are done in maya. But do you want to end up at a job where all you can expect is overtime and headaches due to your tool falling apart when it matters the most? On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:18 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: didn't want to chime in on this thread, but can'tresist... Graham, we know that as an autodesk representative, you have to, at least to some extent, tow the party line but you have to face facts, we as Softimage users have had this situation forced upon us by a seemingly uncaring software behemoth it will take YEARS for the resentment to fizzle out just because the list has settled down of late (it's disappointingly like a ghost town in here most days) it doesn't mean the embers of our collective anger aren't still glowing away occasionally, for many months to come, they will flare up I welcome the initiative to help artists move across to maya, even seen as a purely financial one from the point of the company that makes the 'other' software And i'll be honest, for every 10 things that i find, while stumbling blindly through the maya minefield, that are infuriating, there are usually a couple that are pleasantly surprising it's not 'all' bad! i guess what i'm saying is keep up the initiatives, hold people's hands through this unwelcome transition, and in the long term, they'll appreciate it but don't expect users not to throw abuse occasionally when you stick your head above the parapet! cheers a -- *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Mario Reitbauer *Sent:* 10 September 2014 11:02 *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios Graham dont take it personal. It's maya... We don't like it, we probably will need a lot of time to start accepting it and maybe at some point some here gonna agree that what maya offers is good. But right now, the cons of maya are just hitting artists day in day out ;) 2014-09-10 2:35 GMT+02:00 Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com: On 09/09/14 17:29, Graham Bell wrote: Personally, I thought I did a great job, but if you guys want to spin it into something it wasn’t, I guess that’s your prerogative. G Oh didn't know you had a take on that event. But no doubt yourself and everyone (many well known names) did a great job, and nothing suggests it was a bad event in any way, well to the contrary! It actually looked very informative and like a great opportunity to objectively assess how thing were with lots of perspective with many users very well versed with their tools. Which seems to have been a success at doing just that, in a candid and positive setting, But if the resulting seemingly very fair, accurate and impartial report also confirms a number of things (almost everything) we all knew already (both pros cons), I wouln't associate the highlighting of these things to 'spinning'. I don't think anything suggested here has been unfair, out of place, or not the case. .. except maybe the 'killing the wrong product' bit.. cause in NO circumstance could there ever be any justification to *forcibly* prevent ANY fairly widely used product from being used, regardless if (but -especially- if) that product was unique. (pretty darn unique in this case)
RE: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
as a company, our decision to move to Maya was made for us 1. production proven 2. available freelance pool 3. community of users when things go wrong 4. existing freelancers who have knowledge of both systems (Soft Maya aiding in transition) 5.third party plugins 6.it's not 3DsMax! no brainer i'm afraid a _ From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Ognjen Vukovic Sent: 10 September 2014 11:44 To: softimage Subject: Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I am quite curious as to why there are so many people transitioning to maya if you all find it such a pain... Weren't there discussions of numerous alternatives being available, i know each software has its pitfalls, and probably the main argument to this is, most jobs are done in maya. But do you want to end up at a job where all you can expect is overtime and headaches due to your tool falling apart when it matters the most? On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:18 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: didn't want to chime in on this thread, but can'tresist... Graham, we know that as an autodesk representative, you have to, at least to some extent, tow the party line but you have to face facts, we as Softimage users have had this situation forced upon us by a seemingly uncaring software behemoth it will take YEARS for the resentment to fizzle out just because the list has settled down of late (it's disappointingly like a ghost town in here most days) it doesn't mean the embers of our collective anger aren't still glowing away occasionally, for many months to come, they will flare up I welcome the initiative to help artists move across to maya, even seen as a purely financial one from the point of the company that makes the 'other' software And i'll be honest, for every 10 things that i find, while stumbling blindly through the maya minefield, that are infuriating, there are usually a couple that are pleasantly surprising it's not 'all' bad! i guess what i'm saying is keep up the initiatives, hold people's hands through this unwelcome transition, and in the long term, they'll appreciate it but don't expect users not to throw abuse occasionally when you stick your head above the parapet! cheers a _ From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Mario Reitbauer Sent: 10 September 2014 11:02 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios Graham dont take it personal. It's maya... We don't like it, we probably will need a lot of time to start accepting it and maybe at some point some here gonna agree that what maya offers is good. But right now, the cons of maya are just hitting artists day in day out ;) 2014-09-10 2:35 GMT+02:00 Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com: On 09/09/14 17:29, Graham Bell wrote: Personally, I thought I did a great job, but if you guys want to spin it into something it wasn't, I guess that's your prerogative. G Oh didn't know you had a take on that event. But no doubt yourself and everyone (many well known names) did a great job, and nothing suggests it was a bad event in any way, well to the contrary! It actually looked very informative and like a great opportunity to objectively assess how thing were with lots of perspective with many users very well versed with their tools. Which seems to have been a success at doing just that, in a candid and positive setting, But if the resulting seemingly very fair, accurate and impartial report also confirms a number of things (almost everything) we all knew already (both pros cons), I wouln't associate the highlighting of these things to 'spinning'. I don't think anything suggested here has been unfair, out of place, or not the case. .. except maybe the 'killing the wrong product' bit.. cause in NO circumstance could there ever be any justification to *forcibly* prevent ANY fairly widely used product from being used, regardless if (but -especially- if) that product was unique. (pretty darn unique in this case)
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
But isnt that just perpetuating the problem with circular logic? Maya is bad have to use maya because of existing user base, no one else uses anything else use maya, contribute to low user base of alternative softwares maya breaks maya is bad... I do understand that maya is probably the best option out of the bunch, its just that i dont think complaining about its bugs on a softimage mailing list will get you anywhere, especially with how things turned out in the last year when it comes to feedback from AD. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:56 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: as a company, our decision to move to Maya was made for us 1. production proven 2. available freelance pool 3. community of users when things go wrong 4. existing freelancers who have knowledge of both systems (Soft Maya aiding in transition) 5.third party plugins 6.it's not 3DsMax! no brainer i'm afraid a -- *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Ognjen Vukovic *Sent:* 10 September 2014 11:44 *To:* softimage *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I am quite curious as to why there are so many people transitioning to maya if you all find it such a pain... Weren't there discussions of numerous alternatives being available, i know each software has its pitfalls, and probably the main argument to this is, most jobs are done in maya. But do you want to end up at a job where all you can expect is overtime and headaches due to your tool falling apart when it matters the most? On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:18 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: didn't want to chime in on this thread, but can'tresist... Graham, we know that as an autodesk representative, you have to, at least to some extent, tow the party line but you have to face facts, we as Softimage users have had this situation forced upon us by a seemingly uncaring software behemoth it will take YEARS for the resentment to fizzle out just because the list has settled down of late (it's disappointingly like a ghost town in here most days) it doesn't mean the embers of our collective anger aren't still glowing away occasionally, for many months to come, they will flare up I welcome the initiative to help artists move across to maya, even seen as a purely financial one from the point of the company that makes the 'other' software And i'll be honest, for every 10 things that i find, while stumbling blindly through the maya minefield, that are infuriating, there are usually a couple that are pleasantly surprising it's not 'all' bad! i guess what i'm saying is keep up the initiatives, hold people's hands through this unwelcome transition, and in the long term, they'll appreciate it but don't expect users not to throw abuse occasionally when you stick your head above the parapet! cheers a -- *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Mario Reitbauer *Sent:* 10 September 2014 11:02 *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios Graham dont take it personal. It's maya... We don't like it, we probably will need a lot of time to start accepting it and maybe at some point some here gonna agree that what maya offers is good. But right now, the cons of maya are just hitting artists day in day out ;) 2014-09-10 2:35 GMT+02:00 Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com: On 09/09/14 17:29, Graham Bell wrote: Personally, I thought I did a great job, but if you guys want to spin it into something it wasn’t, I guess that’s your prerogative. G Oh didn't know you had a take on that event. But no doubt yourself and everyone (many well known names) did a great job, and nothing suggests it was a bad event in any way, well to the contrary! It actually looked very informative and like a great opportunity to objectively assess how thing were with lots of perspective with many users very well versed with their tools. Which seems to have been a success at doing just that, in a candid and positive setting, But if the resulting seemingly very fair, accurate and impartial report also confirms a number of things (almost everything) we all knew already (both pros cons), I wouln't associate the highlighting of these things to 'spinning'. I don't think anything suggested here has been unfair, out of place, or not the case. .. except maybe the 'killing the wrong product' bit.. cause in NO circumstance could there ever be any justification to *forcibly* prevent ANY fairly widely used product from being used, regardless if (but -especially- if) that product was unique. (pretty darn unique in this case)
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Ognjen, people need to spill their soul somewhere :) Honestly for me everything is still fresh as the day they killed it and as a matter of fact as the day when AD bought it at first place... On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Ognjen Vukovic ognj...@gmail.com wrote: But isnt that just perpetuating the problem with circular logic? Maya is bad have to use maya because of existing user base, no one else uses anything else use maya, contribute to low user base of alternative softwares maya breaks maya is bad... I do understand that maya is probably the best option out of the bunch, its just that i dont think complaining about its bugs on a softimage mailing list will get you anywhere, especially with how things turned out in the last year when it comes to feedback from AD. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:56 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: as a company, our decision to move to Maya was made for us 1. production proven 2. available freelance pool 3. community of users when things go wrong 4. existing freelancers who have knowledge of both systems (Soft Maya aiding in transition) 5.third party plugins 6.it's not 3DsMax! no brainer i'm afraid a -- *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Ognjen Vukovic *Sent:* 10 September 2014 11:44 *To:* softimage *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I am quite curious as to why there are so many people transitioning to maya if you all find it such a pain... Weren't there discussions of numerous alternatives being available, i know each software has its pitfalls, and probably the main argument to this is, most jobs are done in maya. But do you want to end up at a job where all you can expect is overtime and headaches due to your tool falling apart when it matters the most? On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:18 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: didn't want to chime in on this thread, but can'tresist... Graham, we know that as an autodesk representative, you have to, at least to some extent, tow the party line but you have to face facts, we as Softimage users have had this situation forced upon us by a seemingly uncaring software behemoth it will take YEARS for the resentment to fizzle out just because the list has settled down of late (it's disappointingly like a ghost town in here most days) it doesn't mean the embers of our collective anger aren't still glowing away occasionally, for many months to come, they will flare up I welcome the initiative to help artists move across to maya, even seen as a purely financial one from the point of the company that makes the 'other' software And i'll be honest, for every 10 things that i find, while stumbling blindly through the maya minefield, that are infuriating, there are usually a couple that are pleasantly surprising it's not 'all' bad! i guess what i'm saying is keep up the initiatives, hold people's hands through this unwelcome transition, and in the long term, they'll appreciate it but don't expect users not to throw abuse occasionally when you stick your head above the parapet! cheers a -- *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Mario Reitbauer *Sent:* 10 September 2014 11:02 *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios Graham dont take it personal. It's maya... We don't like it, we probably will need a lot of time to start accepting it and maybe at some point some here gonna agree that what maya offers is good. But right now, the cons of maya are just hitting artists day in day out ;) 2014-09-10 2:35 GMT+02:00 Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com: On 09/09/14 17:29, Graham Bell wrote: Personally, I thought I did a great job, but if you guys want to spin it into something it wasn’t, I guess that’s your prerogative. G Oh didn't know you had a take on that event. But no doubt yourself and everyone (many well known names) did a great job, and nothing suggests it was a bad event in any way, well to the contrary! It actually looked very informative and like a great opportunity to objectively assess how thing were with lots of perspective with many users very well versed with their tools. Which seems to have been a success at doing just that, in a candid and positive setting, But if the resulting seemingly very fair, accurate and impartial report also confirms a number of things (almost everything) we all knew already (both pros cons), I wouln't associate the highlighting of these things to 'spinning'. I don't think anything suggested here has been unfair, out of place, or not the case. .. except maybe the
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
For people who have no other choice, I feel the pain of the transitioners from SI to MA. Frankly, if you don't do our particular job with pleasure I really hope you're well paid... Hardly / slowly learning Houdini here, but at least it makes sense. Le 10/09/2014 13:15, Ognjen Vukovic a écrit : But isnt that just perpetuating the problem with circular logic? Maya is bad have to use maya because of existing user base, no one else uses anything else use maya, contribute to low user base of alternative softwares maya breaks maya is bad... I do understand that maya is probably the best option out of the bunch, its just that i dont think complaining about its bugs on a softimage mailing list will get you anywhere, especially with how things turned out in the last year when it comes to feedback from AD. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:56 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com mailto:adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: as a company, our decision to move to Maya was made for us 1. production proven 2. available freelance pool 3. community of users when things go wrong 4. existing freelancers who have knowledge of both systems (Soft Maya aiding in transition) 5.third party plugins 6.it http://6.it's not 3DsMax! no brainer i'm afraid a *From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Ognjen Vukovic *Sent:* 10 September 2014 11:44 *To:* softimage *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I am quite curious as to why there are so many people transitioning to maya if you all find it such a pain... Weren't there discussions of numerous alternatives being available, i know each software has its pitfalls, and probably the main argument to this is, most jobs are done in maya. But do you want to end up at a job where all you can expect is overtime and headaches due to your tool falling apart when it matters the most? On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:18 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com mailto:adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: didn't want to chime in on this thread, but can'tresist... Graham, we know that as an autodesk representative, you have to, at least to some extent, tow the party line but you have to face facts, we as Softimage users have had this situation forced upon us by a seemingly uncaring software behemoth it will take YEARS for the resentment to fizzle out just because the list has settled down of late (it's disappointingly like a ghost town in here most days) it doesn't mean the embers of our collective anger aren't still glowing away occasionally, for many months to come, they will flare up I welcome the initiative to help artists move across to maya, even seen as a purely financial one from the point of the company that makes the 'other' software And i'll be honest, for every 10 things that i find, while stumbling blindly through the maya minefield, that are infuriating, there are usually a couple that are pleasantly surprising it's not 'all' bad! i guess what i'm saying is keep up the initiatives, hold people's hands through this unwelcome transition, and in the long term, they'll appreciate it but don't expect users not to throw abuse occasionally when you stick your head above the parapet! cheers a *From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Mario Reitbauer *Sent:* 10 September 2014 11:02 *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios Graham dont take it personal. It's maya... We don't like it, we probably will need a lot of time to start accepting it and maybe at some point some here gonna agree that what maya offers is good. But right now, the cons of maya are just hitting artists day in day out ;) 2014-09-10 2:35 GMT+02:00 Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com mailto:jasonsta...@gmail.com: On 09/09/14 17:29, Graham Bell wrote: Personally, I thought I did a great job, but if you guys want to spin it into something it wasn’t, I guess that’s your prerogative. G Oh didn't know you had a take on that event. But no doubt yourself and everyone (many well known names) did a great job, and nothing suggests it was a bad event
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
I understand people need an outlet. But i am with Olivier on this, i just strongly believe that as a consumer people should have a say in how things progress. If your voice isn't heard, then take your business elsewhere. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 1:34 PM, olivier jeannel olivier.jean...@noos.fr wrote: For people who have no other choice, I feel the pain of the transitioners from SI to MA. Frankly, if you don't do our particular job with pleasure I really hope you're well paid... Hardly / slowly learning Houdini here, but at least it makes sense. Le 10/09/2014 13:15, Ognjen Vukovic a écrit : But isnt that just perpetuating the problem with circular logic? Maya is bad have to use maya because of existing user base, no one else uses anything else use maya, contribute to low user base of alternative softwares maya breaks maya is bad... I do understand that maya is probably the best option out of the bunch, its just that i dont think complaining about its bugs on a softimage mailing list will get you anywhere, especially with how things turned out in the last year when it comes to feedback from AD. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:56 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: as a company, our decision to move to Maya was made for us 1. production proven 2. available freelance pool 3. community of users when things go wrong 4. existing freelancers who have knowledge of both systems (Soft Maya aiding in transition) 5.third party plugins 6.it's not 3DsMax! no brainer i'm afraid a -- *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Ognjen Vukovic *Sent:* 10 September 2014 11:44 *To:* softimage *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I am quite curious as to why there are so many people transitioning to maya if you all find it such a pain... Weren't there discussions of numerous alternatives being available, i know each software has its pitfalls, and probably the main argument to this is, most jobs are done in maya. But do you want to end up at a job where all you can expect is overtime and headaches due to your tool falling apart when it matters the most? On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:18 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: didn't want to chime in on this thread, but can'tresist... Graham, we know that as an autodesk representative, you have to, at least to some extent, tow the party line but you have to face facts, we as Softimage users have had this situation forced upon us by a seemingly uncaring software behemoth it will take YEARS for the resentment to fizzle out just because the list has settled down of late (it's disappointingly like a ghost town in here most days) it doesn't mean the embers of our collective anger aren't still glowing away occasionally, for many months to come, they will flare up I welcome the initiative to help artists move across to maya, even seen as a purely financial one from the point of the company that makes the 'other' software And i'll be honest, for every 10 things that i find, while stumbling blindly through the maya minefield, that are infuriating, there are usually a couple that are pleasantly surprising it's not 'all' bad! i guess what i'm saying is keep up the initiatives, hold people's hands through this unwelcome transition, and in the long term, they'll appreciate it but don't expect users not to throw abuse occasionally when you stick your head above the parapet! cheers a -- *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Mario Reitbauer *Sent:* 10 September 2014 11:02 *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios Graham dont take it personal. It's maya... We don't like it, we probably will need a lot of time to start accepting it and maybe at some point some here gonna agree that what maya offers is good. But right now, the cons of maya are just hitting artists day in day out ;) 2014-09-10 2:35 GMT+02:00 Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com: On 09/09/14 17:29, Graham Bell wrote: Personally, I thought I did a great job, but if you guys want to spin it into something it wasn’t, I guess that’s your prerogative. G Oh didn't know you had a take on that event. But no doubt yourself and everyone (many well known names) did a great job, and nothing suggests it was a bad event in any way, well to the contrary! It actually looked very informative and like a great opportunity to objectively assess how thing were with lots of perspective with many users very well versed with their tools. Which seems to have been a success at doing just that, in a candid and positive setting, But
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
I guess, we all have different type of jobs. In my case, I mainly work for game production. I don't do original contents (not yet at least), so I have to use what my clients do, and that is Maya and Softimage. And because of that I've always used Maya (not very much in the last 4 years due to long Softimage projects). Although I'm quite used to SI - Maya data conversion, I'm trying to improve my Maya skills lately. I've done work in Max too but I really don't want to do it again. Ever. For modeling, Maya is getting better. And after a few weeks customizing my Maya hotkeys, marking menues, writing a few scripts (well more than a few), trying some more scripts and plugins, reading manuals, and trying to be open minded, it's not that bad. Not as fast and easy as Softimage but it has some pretty cool features. For animation and rigging, I don't know how much it has changed but I've never liked it and I don't intend to take any Maya animation job if I can avoid it so I'm not touching that department yet. I don't do VFX, so I can't tell anything about it. Martin On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com wrote: Ognjen, people need to spill their soul somewhere :) Honestly for me everything is still fresh as the day they killed it and as a matter of fact as the day when AD bought it at first place... On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Ognjen Vukovic ognj...@gmail.com wrote: But isnt that just perpetuating the problem with circular logic? Maya is bad have to use maya because of existing user base, no one else uses anything else use maya, contribute to low user base of alternative softwares maya breaks maya is bad... I do understand that maya is probably the best option out of the bunch, its just that i dont think complaining about its bugs on a softimage mailing list will get you anywhere, especially with how things turned out in the last year when it comes to feedback from AD. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:56 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: as a company, our decision to move to Maya was made for us 1. production proven 2. available freelance pool 3. community of users when things go wrong 4. existing freelancers who have knowledge of both systems (Soft Maya aiding in transition) 5.third party plugins 6.it's not 3DsMax! no brainer i'm afraid a -- *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Ognjen Vukovic *Sent:* 10 September 2014 11:44 *To:* softimage *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I am quite curious as to why there are so many people transitioning to maya if you all find it such a pain... Weren't there discussions of numerous alternatives being available, i know each software has its pitfalls, and probably the main argument to this is, most jobs are done in maya. But do you want to end up at a job where all you can expect is overtime and headaches due to your tool falling apart when it matters the most?
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
And after a few weeks customizing my Maya hotkeys, marking menues, writing a few scripts (well more than a few), trying some more scripts and plugins, reading manuals, and trying to be open minded, it's not that bad this says it all are you buying program to make your tools or do your job? because there are already way better tools for making tools out there ;) Are you buying car without car seat, wheels, engine.. and then putting them one by one yourself? man it is s OPEN!! :) On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Martin Yara furik...@gmail.com wrote: I guess, we all have different type of jobs. In my case, I mainly work for game production. I don't do original contents (not yet at least), so I have to use what my clients do, and that is Maya and Softimage. And because of that I've always used Maya (not very much in the last 4 years due to long Softimage projects). Although I'm quite used to SI - Maya data conversion, I'm trying to improve my Maya skills lately. I've done work in Max too but I really don't want to do it again. Ever. For modeling, Maya is getting better. And after a few weeks customizing my Maya hotkeys, marking menues, writing a few scripts (well more than a few), trying some more scripts and plugins, reading manuals, and trying to be open minded, it's not that bad. Not as fast and easy as Softimage but it has some pretty cool features. For animation and rigging, I don't know how much it has changed but I've never liked it and I don't intend to take any Maya animation job if I can avoid it so I'm not touching that department yet. I don't do VFX, so I can't tell anything about it. Martin On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com wrote: Ognjen, people need to spill their soul somewhere :) Honestly for me everything is still fresh as the day they killed it and as a matter of fact as the day when AD bought it at first place... On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Ognjen Vukovic ognj...@gmail.com wrote: But isnt that just perpetuating the problem with circular logic? Maya is bad have to use maya because of existing user base, no one else uses anything else use maya, contribute to low user base of alternative softwares maya breaks maya is bad... I do understand that maya is probably the best option out of the bunch, its just that i dont think complaining about its bugs on a softimage mailing list will get you anywhere, especially with how things turned out in the last year when it comes to feedback from AD. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:56 PM, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: as a company, our decision to move to Maya was made for us 1. production proven 2. available freelance pool 3. community of users when things go wrong 4. existing freelancers who have knowledge of both systems (Soft Maya aiding in transition) 5.third party plugins 6.it's not 3DsMax! no brainer i'm afraid a -- *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Ognjen Vukovic *Sent:* 10 September 2014 11:44 *To:* softimage *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I am quite curious as to why there are so many people transitioning to maya if you all find it such a pain... Weren't there discussions of numerous alternatives being available, i know each software has its pitfalls, and probably the main argument to this is, most jobs are done in maya. But do you want to end up at a job where all you can expect is overtime and headaches due to your tool falling apart when it matters the most?
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
To be fair, in modeling at least, the last 2 Maya releases are way better and have some nice features that Softimage doesn't. My problem is that I still have to deal with the old crappy versions (Maya 2013, 2012). I don't know how they (clients) can still use this piece of $#!7 ! And like I said in another thread, NEX is a must for 2013 and older versions. If you think about it, thank god a 3rd party like dRaster came in with NEX or Maya would probably still be as crappy as 2013 and older versions. Martin On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:05 PM, Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com wrote: And after a few weeks customizing my Maya hotkeys, marking menues, writing a few scripts (well more than a few), trying some more scripts and plugins, reading manuals, and trying to be open minded, it's not that bad this says it all are you buying program to make your tools or do your job? because there are already way better tools for making tools out there ;) Are you buying car without car seat, wheels, engine.. and then putting them one by one yourself? man it is s OPEN!! :)
Re: still waiting
Patches are not what they used to be. ;-) Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 10 Sep 2014, at 10:18, adrian wyer adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com wrote: Updating Autodesk Maya 2015 validating install... .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. for a 270Mb 'patch' it sure takes a sh1t ton of validation!!! im SURE it's worth it :-/ Adrian Wyer Fluid Pictures 75-77 Margaret St. London W1W 8SY ++44(0) 207 580 0829 adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com www.fluid-pictures.com Fluid Pictures Limited is registered in England and Wales. Company number:5657815 VAT number: 872 6893 71
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Yeah, and in all those discussions what emerged is that if you care about character animation, or even animation in general, rigging of a certain quality, games at large, or face any given market where AD has the job pool by the balls (which is a staggering majority in VFX and Games), then you're stuck with Maya. All the talk about Modo and Houdini is fine and dandy, and while I like SESI better than AD, and The Foundry at least has proven to have a certain interest in the VFX client base past the prestige value for marketing, anybody thinking they are viable solutions when you have to deliver certain types of projects has simply never worked at scale on those. Lets be honest, for certain jobs Soft was the ONLY competitor to Maya. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:43 PM, Ognjen Vukovic ognj...@gmail.com wrote: I am quite curious as to why there are so many people transitioning to maya if you all find it such a pain... Weren't there discussions of numerous alternatives being available, i know each software has its pitfalls, and probably the main argument to this is, most jobs are done in maya. But do you want to end up at a job where all you can expect is overtime and headaches due to your tool falling apart when it matters the most?
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
It does make sense from the management and education point of view to bet for the current industry standard. My suggestion, learn Modo and/or specially Houdini to look at the future, things are changing fast. Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 10 Sep 2014, at 11:43, Ognjen Vukovic ognj...@gmail.com wrote: I am quite curious as to why there are so many people transitioning to maya if you all find it such a pain... Weren't there discussions of numerous alternatives being available, i know each software has its pitfalls, and probably the main argument to this is, most jobs are done in maya. But do you want to end up at a job where all you can expect is overtime and headaches due to your tool falling apart when it matters the most?
RE: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
I accept all that, and I'm not taking anything personal at all. I'd actually flip that point a little and ask some to maybe do the same. :) The point I wanted to make was, there was no agenda to this training, we weren't expecting to suddenly win people over. And using someone like Escape, provides a good context of neutrality. G From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of adrian wyer Sent: 10 September 2014 11:19 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios didn't want to chime in on this thread, but can'tresist... Graham, we know that as an autodesk representative, you have to, at least to some extent, tow the party line but you have to face facts, we as Softimage users have had this situation forced upon us by a seemingly uncaring software behemoth it will take YEARS for the resentment to fizzle out just because the list has settled down of late (it's disappointingly like a ghost town in here most days) it doesn't mean the embers of our collective anger aren't still glowing away occasionally, for many months to come, they will flare up I welcome the initiative to help artists move across to maya, even seen as a purely financial one from the point of the company that makes the 'other' software And i'll be honest, for every 10 things that i find, while stumbling blindly through the maya minefield, that are infuriating, there are usually a couple that are pleasantly surprising it's not 'all' bad! i guess what i'm saying is keep up the initiatives, hold people's hands through this unwelcome transition, and in the long term, they'll appreciate it but don't expect users not to throw abuse occasionally when you stick your head above the parapet! cheers a attachment: winmail.dat
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
That's why we're moving to Maya eventually... other than Soft, it's the only end-to-end option out there at the moment. I say 'eventually'... it's not like XSI suddenly broke or anything... Frankly though, AD has shown that it /can /listen to users... for example in the really solid modeling improvements Maya has received. So hey ho, whaddyaknow, Maya /can/ improve! And if some of XSI's genius can survive by being translated into Maya, awesome! Call me naive, but I won't be jaded or cynical here, that's too easy. Time will tell, but it's evident to me that Maya stands to improve a good bit in the next 2 years. Whether it actually does or not remains to be seen, but the potential is there and I find that encouraging. I really do hope that AD takes a seriously professional look at what was great about Soft and applies some of that to Maya. The tech industries in general are so proud to always be improving things and 'making progress', and with the demise of XSI a massive step has been taken backwards in terms of technology (though certainly not in terms of financial gain, but that's not for lack of success on the artist's part). The tech isn't lost per se, but it's been de-implemented. That just gets me. Don't talk to me about the glorious advances of technology when a major player like AD is willing to can stuff this good. -Tim On 9/10/2014 9:05 AM, Raffaele Fragapane wrote: Yeah, and in all those discussions what emerged is that if you care about character animation, or even animation in general, rigging of a certain quality, games at large, or face any given market where AD has the job pool by the balls (which is a staggering majority in VFX and Games), then you're stuck with Maya. All the talk about Modo and Houdini is fine and dandy, and while I like SESI better than AD, and The Foundry at least has proven to have a certain interest in the VFX client base past the prestige value for marketing, anybody thinking they are viable solutions when you have to deliver certain types of projects has simply never worked at scale on those. Lets be honest, for certain jobs Soft was the ONLY competitor to Maya. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:43 PM, Ognjen Vukovic ognj...@gmail.com mailto:ognj...@gmail.com wrote: I am quite curious as to why there are so many people transitioning to maya if you all find it such a pain... Weren't there discussions of numerous alternatives being available, i know each software has its pitfalls, and probably the main argument to this is, most jobs are done in maya. But do you want to end up at a job where all you can expect is overtime and headaches due to your tool falling apart when it matters the most? -- Signature *Tim Crowson */Lead CG Artist/ *Magnetic Dreams, Inc. *2525 Lebanon Pike, Bldg C, Suite 101, Nashville, TN 37214 *Ph* 615.885.6801 | *Fax* 615.889.4768 | www.magneticdreams.com tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com /Confidentiality Notice: This email, including attachments, is confidential and should not be used by anyone who is not the original intended recipient(s). If you have received this e-mail in error please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or any other storage mechanism. Magnetic Dreams, Inc cannot accept liability for any statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not expressly made on behalf of Magnetic Dreams, Inc or one of its agents./
alembic from hou to xsi issues
I am exporting some points into an alembic file from houdini to xsi and stumble on one issue. Transferring attributes works good for what you could call 'factory attributes' like P or v (we have to rename that to something with more than just one letter, cause it wont appear in xsi). But I also compute angular velocity (w) and couple other 'arbitrary user attributes', all vectors (3f). This suckers come in as single float value. Not even as a array of 3 values per point. As the same alembic file works like expected as re-import in houdini, I am pretty sure it is an eff up in xsi. Just want to make sure I am not doing something stupid. Anyone experience the same? Its with the 2015 version of xsi. sebastian -- http://www.sekow.com
Re: alembic from hou to xsi issues
Why don¹t you try the exocortex crate implementation, you can use the trial that works on 100 frames or so. On 2014/09/10, 5:29 PM, Sebastian Kowalski l...@sekow.com wrote: I am exporting some points into an alembic file from houdini to xsi and stumble on one issue. Transferring attributes works good for what you could call 'factory attributes' like P or v (we have to rename that to something with more than just one letter, cause it wont appear in xsi). But I also compute angular velocity (w) and couple other 'arbitrary user attributes', all vectors (3f). This suckers come in as single float value. Not even as a array of 3 values per point. As the same alembic file works like expected as re-import in houdini, I am pretty sure it is an eff up in xsi. Just want to make sure I am not doing something stupid. Anyone experience the same? Its with the 2015 version of xsi. sebastian -- http://www.sekow.com table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Please, let's be honest Graham, you *have* taken certain barbs at Autodesk personally, even when they were not directed personally at you or your co-workers. As Adrian said: it will take YEARS for the resentment to fizzle outjust because the list has settled down of late (it's disappointingly like a ghost town in here most days) it doesn't mean the embers of our collective anger aren't still glowing away...but don't expect users not to throw abuse occasionally when you stick your head above the parapet! # Personal experience...fast forward if you wish. Any of the ire and seething hatred that may be shining forth from my previous emails is directly because I suffered--no exaggeration--suffered through over 5 years of using Maya from late 2001 to early 2007. I know how Maya is supposed to be used and its mind-set...and it still sucks. And now, since April of this year, I have been using the current release build of Maya after hours and weekend almost 7 days a week and I find myself dragged back into that swirling vortex of pain and misery known as Maya. It has caused my blood pressure to leap up over 30 points on the systolic since I have started to use it. Maya takes so much more work to do the same things. For example: rigging in Maya sucks donkey balls...I can eventually do the same things in Maya, but the stupid hoops that I have to jump through are ridiculous; the complexity needed to achieve the same results is ludicrous. And the overall workflow of Maya has so much friction that it is unbelievable that anyone can get any work done with it and remain competitive. Earlier this year, before I got into the after-hour freelance, I really wanted to try and make a positive difference through the beta program to improve Maya since it is the only viable option to Softimage. However, every time I sit down to compose a list of all that is wrong with it and how Maya can be improved, I feel my teeth grinding, I feel the anger surging and my blood pressure soaring. In such a state, I know that my suggestions are not going to come out in a constructive manner, so I have withheld my feedback until such a time where I won't offend and the effort wont give me a stroke or a heart attack. # gripe session ended *In short, doing a job with in 3D with Softimage, even in tight situations, is fun because, even if it is challenging or there are curveballs thrown at you, you can feel confident that you will be able to accomplish it with Softimage. With Maya, not only is it a laborious chore, if something goes wrong or the client makes changes, Maya has such a destructive linear workflow that you can quickly find yourself f*cked. It is as arrogant as Marie Antoinette to think that ADSK has given us an equivelant exchange.* Please have patience with us, please don't have a flippant disregard for our very real and pertinent points of view, and try not to take them personally either. ADSK has injured us and and proclaiming to the list that ADSK is did the right business thing and that you guys are doing a good job (I'm sure you are doing your best) does not play off too well. Sincerely, -=Eric T. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I accept all that, and I'm not taking anything personal at all. I'd actually flip that point a little and ask some to maybe do the same. :) The point I wanted to make was, there was no agenda to this training, we weren't expecting to suddenly win people over. And using someone like Escape, provides a good context of neutrality. G -- -=T=-
Re: alembic from hou to xsi issues
With the crate version im sure you can rewire the abc point node and retrieve any custom values you might have assigned . If i can recall correctly you could hack the abc load point node, get the alembic points duplicate it and point the identifier to the attribute, and rewire it so it sets the needed data, but this was ages ago, and im not sure if has changed as i haven't used it in nearly two years, but im sure it worked on a color attribute from a houdini mesh. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Angus Davidson angus.david...@wits.ac.za wrote: Why donšt you try the exocortex crate implementation, you can use the trial that works on 100 frames or so. On 2014/09/10, 5:29 PM, Sebastian Kowalski l...@sekow.com wrote: I am exporting some points into an alembic file from houdini to xsi and stumble on one issue. Transferring attributes works good for what you could call 'factory attributes' like P or v (we have to rename that to something with more than just one letter, cause it wont appear in xsi). But I also compute angular velocity (w) and couple other 'arbitrary user attributes', all vectors (3f). This suckers come in as single float value. Not even as a array of 3 values per point. As the same alembic file works like expected as re-import in houdini, I am pretty sure it is an eff up in xsi. Just want to make sure I am not doing something stupid. Anyone experience the same? Its with the 2015 version of xsi. sebastian -- http://www.sekow.com table width=100% border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style=width:100%; tr td align=left style=text-align:justify;font face=arial,sans-serif size=1 color=#99span style=font-size:11px;This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the contrary. /span/font/td /tr /table
Nice, V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage is now available.
http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/vray_softimage.html -- paulo-duarte.com
Re: Nice, V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage is now available.
Cool! What's New in V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage? • New Progressive Production Renderer for interactive and production rendering • New VRaySkinMtl with layered reflections and artistfriendly controls • Render Mask to specify render regions using an object selection or image mask • Deep Image support including OpenEXR 2.0 output • emFluid 5 is integrated with V-Ray for SI Check out the full list of improvements in V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage. V-Ray for Softimage Key Features V-Ray for Softimage offers a rich set of functionalities for fast and efficient rendering and an intuitive approach towards shading and lighting. On 09/10/14 12:16, Paulo Cesar Duarte wrote: http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/vray_softimage.html -- paulo-duarte.com
Re: Nice, V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage is now available.
I was pleasantly surprised when I got the email. Simon Reeves London, UK *si...@simonreeves.com si...@simonreeves.com* *www.simonreeves.com http://www.simonreeves.com* *www.analogstudio.co.uk http://www.analogstudio.co.uk* On 10 September 2014 17:29, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: Cool! What's New in V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage? • New Progressive Production Renderer for interactive and production rendering • New VRaySkinMtl with layered reflections and artistfriendly controls • Render Mask to specify render regions using an object selection or image mask • Deep Image support including OpenEXR 2.0 output • emFluid 5 is integrated with V-Ray for SI Check out the full list of improvements in V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage http://www.chaosgroup.com/public_images/V-Ray-3.0-for-Softimage.pdf. V-Ray for Softimage Key Features V-Ray for Softimage offers a rich set of functionalities for fast and efficient rendering and an intuitive approach towards shading and lighting. On 09/10/14 12:16, Paulo Cesar Duarte wrote: http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/vray_softimage.html -- paulo-duarte.com
Re: Nice, V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage is now available.
+1! Chaos Group has given us, the Softimage community, a really awesome VRay update (in spite of you-know-what happened to Softimage). Furthermore I am very grateful for the time and man power they invested to also add the support of the upcoming emFluid5 plugin for Softimage.
Re: Nice, V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage is now available.
PS: talking of VRay: Congratulations to Vladimir Koylazov for winning the cg awards (https://thecgawards.com/)! Am 10.09.2014 18:54, schrieb Eric Mootz: +1! Chaos Group has given us, the Softimage community, a really awesome VRay update (in spite of you-know-what happened to Softimage). Furthermore I am very grateful for the time and man power they invested to also add the support of the upcoming emFluid5 plugin for Softimage.
Re: Nice, V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage is now available.
So, are we supposed to download the demo build? That's the only one I see. Also the VRay for SI page seems to say that if you accept the parting gift of a VRay for Maya or Max license, then you can only use VRay for SI for 6 months concurrently. I would hope they reconsider this. Autodesk removed a similar restriction when we complained. It certainly looks like a nice update. Ben On 9/10/2014 11:29 AM, Jason S wrote: Cool! What's New in V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage? • New Progressive Production Renderer for interactive and production rendering • New VRaySkinMtl with layered reflections and artistfriendly controls • Render Mask to specify render regions using an object selection or image mask • Deep Image support including OpenEXR 2.0 output • emFluid 5 is integrated with V-Ray for SI Check out the full list of improvements in V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage http://www.chaosgroup.com/public_images/V-Ray-3.0-for-Softimage.pdf. V-Ray for Softimage Key Features V-Ray for Softimage offers a rich set of functionalities for fast and efficient rendering and an intuitive approach towards shading and lighting. On 09/10/14 12:16, Paulo Cesar Duarte wrote: http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/vray_softimage.html -- paulo-duarte.com http://paulo-duarte.com
Re: Nice, V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage is now available.
emFluid 5 is integrated with V-Ray for SI video or it did not happen On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Simon Reeves si...@simonreeves.com wrote: I was pleasantly surprised when I got the email. Simon Reeves London, UK *si...@simonreeves.com si...@simonreeves.com* *www.simonreeves.com http://www.simonreeves.com* *www.analogstudio.co.uk http://www.analogstudio.co.uk* On 10 September 2014 17:29, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: Cool! What's New in V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage? • New Progressive Production Renderer for interactive and production rendering • New VRaySkinMtl with layered reflections and artistfriendly controls • Render Mask to specify render regions using an object selection or image mask • Deep Image support including OpenEXR 2.0 output • emFluid 5 is integrated with V-Ray for SI Check out the full list of improvements in V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage http://www.chaosgroup.com/public_images/V-Ray-3.0-for-Softimage.pdf. V-Ray for Softimage Key Features V-Ray for Softimage offers a rich set of functionalities for fast and efficient rendering and an intuitive approach towards shading and lighting. On 09/10/14 12:16, Paulo Cesar Duarte wrote: http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/vray_softimage.html -- paulo-duarte.com
Re: Nice, V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage is now available.
He, he :) I will make a little video this weekend and post here again when it is on Vimeo. Am 10.09.2014 19:09, schrieb Greg Punchatz: emFluid 5 is integrated with V-Ray for SI video or it did not happen
Re: Nice, V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage is now available.
Also the VRay for SI page seems to say that if you accept the parting gift of a VRay for Maya or Max license, then you can only use VRay for SI for 6 months concurrently. I would hope they reconsider this. Autodesk removed a similar restriction when we complained. My biggest issue with chaos is how they split the licences per app... I prefer the pay for the render engine and get to use it where I want model that SA has. I would pay a bit more for that than Vray are charging for the per app model. There are quite a few things I like about V ray, very sexy for some jobs. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Ben Rogall xsi_l...@shaders.moederogall.com wrote: So, are we supposed to download the demo build? That's the only one I see. Also the VRay for SI page seems to say that if you accept the parting gift of a VRay for Maya or Max license, then you can only use VRay for SI for 6 months concurrently. I would hope they reconsider this. Autodesk removed a similar restriction when we complained. It certainly looks like a nice update. Ben On 9/10/2014 11:29 AM, Jason S wrote: Cool! What's New in V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage? • New Progressive Production Renderer for interactive and production rendering • New VRaySkinMtl with layered reflections and artistfriendly controls • Render Mask to specify render regions using an object selection or image mask • Deep Image support including OpenEXR 2.0 output • emFluid 5 is integrated with V-Ray for SI Check out the full list of improvements in V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage http://www.chaosgroup.com/public_images/V-Ray-3.0-for-Softimage.pdf. V-Ray for Softimage Key Features V-Ray for Softimage offers a rich set of functionalities for fast and efficient rendering and an intuitive approach towards shading and lighting. On 09/10/14 12:16, Paulo Cesar Duarte wrote: http://www.chaosgroup.com/en/2/vray_softimage.html -- paulo-duarte.com
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Graham I for one am glad you did this, I would love for something like this to be held at Janimation. Greg The future is unwritten- Joe Strummer Sent from my iPhone On Sep 10, 2014, at 11:01 AM, Eric Turman i.anima...@gmail.com wrote: Please, let's be honest Graham, you have taken certain barbs at Autodesk personally, even when they were not directed personally at you or your co-workers. As Adrian said: it will take YEARS for the resentment to fizzle outjust because the list has settled down of late (it's disappointingly like a ghost town in here most days) it doesn't mean the embers of our collective anger aren't still glowing away...but don't expect users not to throw abuse occasionally when you stick your head above the parapet! # Personal experience...fast forward if you wish. Any of the ire and seething hatred that may be shining forth from my previous emails is directly because I suffered--no exaggeration--suffered through over 5 years of using Maya from late 2001 to early 2007. I know how Maya is supposed to be used and its mind-set...and it still sucks. And now, since April of this year, I have been using the current release build of Maya after hours and weekend almost 7 days a week and I find myself dragged back into that swirling vortex of pain and misery known as Maya. It has caused my blood pressure to leap up over 30 points on the systolic since I have started to use it. Maya takes so much more work to do the same things. For example: rigging in Maya sucks donkey balls...I can eventually do the same things in Maya, but the stupid hoops that I have to jump through are ridiculous; the complexity needed to achieve the same results is ludicrous. And the overall workflow of Maya has so much friction that it is unbelievable that anyone can get any work done with it and remain competitive. Earlier this year, before I got into the after-hour freelance, I really wanted to try and make a positive difference through the beta program to improve Maya since it is the only viable option to Softimage. However, every time I sit down to compose a list of all that is wrong with it and how Maya can be improved, I feel my teeth grinding, I feel the anger surging and my blood pressure soaring. In such a state, I know that my suggestions are not going to come out in a constructive manner, so I have withheld my feedback until such a time where I won't offend and the effort wont give me a stroke or a heart attack. # gripe session ended In short, doing a job with in 3D with Softimage, even in tight situations, is fun because, even if it is challenging or there are curveballs thrown at you, you can feel confident that you will be able to accomplish it with Softimage. With Maya, not only is it a laborious chore, if something goes wrong or the client makes changes, Maya has such a destructive linear workflow that you can quickly find yourself f*cked. It is as arrogant as Marie Antoinette to think that ADSK has given us an equivelant exchange. Please have patience with us, please don't have a flippant disregard for our very real and pertinent points of view, and try not to take them personally either. ADSK has injured us and and proclaiming to the list that ADSK is did the right business thing and that you guys are doing a good job (I'm sure you are doing your best) does not play off too well. Sincerely, -=Eric T. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I accept all that, and I'm not taking anything personal at all. I'd actually flip that point a little and ask some to maybe do the same. :) The point I wanted to make was, there was no agenda to this training, we weren't expecting to suddenly win people over. And using someone like Escape, provides a good context of neutrality. G -- -=T=-
Re: alembic from hou to xsi issues
Hi Sebastian, as already mentioned Exocortex Crate does this reliable. See here: http://exocortex.com/blog/crate_custom_attribute_softimage Just a side note, getting custom attributes from XSI into Houdini can be a pain too and I’ve had much better luck exporting those from 2015 with its onboard Alembic than with Crate. Andy On Sep 10, 2014, at 17:29, Sebastian Kowalski l...@sekow.com wrote: I am exporting some points into an alembic file from houdini to xsi and stumble on one issue. Transferring attributes works good for what you could call 'factory attributes' like P or v (we have to rename that to something with more than just one letter, cause it wont appear in xsi). But I also compute angular velocity (w) and couple other 'arbitrary user attributes', all vectors (3f). This suckers come in as single float value. Not even as a array of 3 values per point. As the same alembic file works like expected as re-import in houdini, I am pretty sure it is an eff up in xsi. Just want to make sure I am not doing something stupid. Anyone experience the same? Its with the 2015 version of xsi. sebastian -- http://www.sekow.com
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Right Greg, it is a good thing for ADKS to reach out; they *need* to. Just because the review wasn't glowing (it wasn't particularly negative either) and that the list did not grab onto the positive parts doesn't mean you guys aren't doing a good job. I know Maya will never be Softimage...I would not want it to be, you'd probably end up with the shortcomings of both packages that way. :P Keep at the outreach and, above all, seriously listen and seek to understand what worked for Soft users in the Softimage workflow. Jill Maurice...you have both been very patient and helpful. Graham, I apologize for calling you out on the personal bit, it was uncalled for. Cheers, -=Eric T. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com wrote: Graham I for one am glad you did this, I would love for something like this to be held at Janimation. Greg The future is unwritten- Joe Strummer Sent from my iPhone On Sep 10, 2014, at 11:01 AM, Eric Turman i.anima...@gmail.com wrote: Please, let's be honest Graham, you *have* taken certain barbs at Autodesk personally, even when they were not directed personally at you or your co-workers. As Adrian said: it will take YEARS for the resentment to fizzle outjust because the list has settled down of late (it's disappointingly like a ghost town in here most days) it doesn't mean the embers of our collective anger aren't still glowing away...but don't expect users not to throw abuse occasionally when you stick your head above the parapet! # Personal experience...fast forward if you wish. Any of the ire and seething hatred that may be shining forth from my previous emails is directly because I suffered--no exaggeration--suffered through over 5 years of using Maya from late 2001 to early 2007. I know how Maya is supposed to be used and its mind-set...and it still sucks. And now, since April of this year, I have been using the current release build of Maya after hours and weekend almost 7 days a week and I find myself dragged back into that swirling vortex of pain and misery known as Maya. It has caused my blood pressure to leap up over 30 points on the systolic since I have started to use it. Maya takes so much more work to do the same things. For example: rigging in Maya sucks donkey balls...I can eventually do the same things in Maya, but the stupid hoops that I have to jump through are ridiculous; the complexity needed to achieve the same results is ludicrous. And the overall workflow of Maya has so much friction that it is unbelievable that anyone can get any work done with it and remain competitive. Earlier this year, before I got into the after-hour freelance, I really wanted to try and make a positive difference through the beta program to improve Maya since it is the only viable option to Softimage. However, every time I sit down to compose a list of all that is wrong with it and how Maya can be improved, I feel my teeth grinding, I feel the anger surging and my blood pressure soaring. In such a state, I know that my suggestions are not going to come out in a constructive manner, so I have withheld my feedback until such a time where I won't offend and the effort wont give me a stroke or a heart attack. # gripe session ended *In short, doing a job with in 3D with Softimage, even in tight situations, is fun because, even if it is challenging or there are curveballs thrown at you, you can feel confident that you will be able to accomplish it with Softimage. With Maya, not only is it a laborious chore, if something goes wrong or the client makes changes, Maya has such a destructive linear workflow that you can quickly find yourself f*cked. It is as arrogant as Marie Antoinette to think that ADSK has given us an equivelant exchange.* Please have patience with us, please don't have a flippant disregard for our very real and pertinent points of view, and try not to take them personally either. ADSK has injured us and and proclaiming to the list that ADSK is did the right business thing and that you guys are doing a good job (I'm sure you are doing your best) does not play off too well. Sincerely, -=Eric T. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Graham Bell graham.b...@autodesk.com wrote: I accept all that, and I'm not taking anything personal at all. I'd actually flip that point a little and ask some to maybe do the same. :) The point I wanted to make was, there was no agenda to this training, we weren't expecting to suddenly win people over. And using someone like Escape, provides a good context of neutrality. G -- -=T=- -- -=T=-
Re: alembic from hou to xsi issues
I can work with that issue. just writing 3 different float attributes for every vector attribute I need. Stupid, but a workaround,….again. s. Am 10.09.2014 um 21:21 schrieb Andy Goehler lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com: Hi Sebastian, as already mentioned Exocortex Crate does this reliable. See here: http://exocortex.com/blog/crate_custom_attribute_softimage Just a side note, getting custom attributes from XSI into Houdini can be a pain too and I’ve had much better luck exporting those from 2015 with its onboard Alembic than with Crate. Andy On Sep 10, 2014, at 17:29, Sebastian Kowalski l...@sekow.com wrote: I am exporting some points into an alembic file from houdini to xsi and stumble on one issue. Transferring attributes works good for what you could call 'factory attributes' like P or v (we have to rename that to something with more than just one letter, cause it wont appear in xsi). But I also compute angular velocity (w) and couple other 'arbitrary user attributes', all vectors (3f). This suckers come in as single float value. Not even as a array of 3 values per point. As the same alembic file works like expected as re-import in houdini, I am pretty sure it is an eff up in xsi. Just want to make sure I am not doing something stupid. Anyone experience the same? Its with the 2015 version of xsi. sebastian -- http://www.sekow.com
Re: Nice, V-Ray 3.0 for Softimage is now available.
This is the kind of thing that made me think VRay team deserves a lot of respect and attention… who would have adventure to invest time in a product like XSI that has been discontinued? If there is anyone from Chaos here, well done guys and thanks! Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 10 Sep 2014, at 17:54, Eric Mootz e...@mootzoid.com wrote: +1! Chaos Group has given us, the Softimage community, a really awesome VRay update (in spite of you-know-what happened to Softimage). Furthermore I am very grateful for the time and man power they invested to also add the support of the upcoming emFluid5 plugin for Softimage.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
I keep thinking about this sentence… what do they mean by Maya being entirely open? Do they mean open source software? clearly that is not the case. Do they mean customisable? because this is not open in my book. Do they mean open architecture? Because although you can add components (plugins) you can't substitute the pre-existing ones (unless I am wrong here) So… what do Autodesk mean by saying it is designed to be entirely open?? And by the way… why is the Escape studio page now down http://www.escapestudios.com/softimage-artists-take-on-maya-escape-studios/ :-/// Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 9 Sep 2014, at 21:41, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: Maya does not have the eloquence or the innovative interface [which Softmage has] and is overly complex, but it has been designed to be entirely open.
RE: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Did Autodesk say that, or somebody else who just happened to be part of the show? When referencing Maya, I've never heard anybody from Autodesk ever say it was open. I've only heard such a statement from users. Not saying Autodesk hasn't said such a thing, just saying I have never heard them say it if they have. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:36 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I keep thinking about this sentence... what do they mean by Maya being entirely open? Do they mean open source software? clearly that is not the case. Do they mean customisable? because this is not open in my book. Do they mean open architecture? Because although you can add components (plugins) you can't substitute the pre-existing ones (unless I am wrong here) So... what do Autodesk mean by saying it is designed to be entirely open?? And by the way... why is the Escape studio page now down http://www.escapestudios.com/softimage-artists-take-on-maya-escape-studios/ :-/// Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.commailto:jordiba...@gmail.com On 9 Sep 2014, at 21:41, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.commailto:jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: Maya does not have the eloquence or the innovative interface [which Softmage has] and is overly complex, but it has been designed to be entirely open.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
I was one of the attendees of this intensive 5 days Maya training. Even though the company I work will probably take the Maya route, nobody forced me to go, however it was a NO BRAINER to take on this offer. I have to give a lot of credit to Graham and his team for putting this together, since it has given me an invaluable insight into Maya. Of course it hasn't made an expert but now I can open Maya confidently model an asset and tinker around with the nodes. Most importantly we can now make an informed decision in regards to Maya (which I think is crucial). It's important to note that the training was given by Mark, who was very neutral and clear by telling us when something was frankly shit, but also showing us the alternative ways. Maya is a software ongoing a massive restructuring so it's necessary to understand that when diving into certain modules (modeling for example). Compared to xsi, I've found Maya mainly lacking on the organisational side. No models, no partitions, No groups (sets but the all live together), No easy overrides, it's made me wonder how the hell do Maya users organise they scene (or maybe they just don't ). This is probably the biggest challenge and it will probably depend on each studio. I personally believe that people who are able to stick with it will get the benefits further down the line when bifrost does become the underlying cog underneath Maya. Overall the experience was very positive and I would definitely recommend it to any company thinking of sending their employees. On Wednesday, 10 September 2014, Eric Turman i.anima...@gmail.com wrote: Right Greg, it is a good thing for ADKS to reach out; they *need* to. Just because the review wasn't glowing (it wasn't particularly negative either) and that the list did not grab onto the positive parts doesn't mean you guys aren't doing a good job. I know Maya will never be Softimage...I would not want it to be, you'd probably end up with the shortcomings of both packages that way. :P Keep at the outreach and, above all, seriously listen and seek to understand what worked for Soft users in the Softimage workflow. Jill Maurice...you have both been very patient and helpful. Graham, I apologize for calling you out on the personal bit, it was uncalled for. Cheers, -=Eric T. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Greg Punchatz g...@janimation.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','g...@janimation.com'); wrote: Graham I for one am glad you did this, I would love for something like this to be held at Janimation. Greg The future is unwritten- Joe Strummer Sent from my iPhone On Sep 10, 2014, at 11:01 AM, Eric Turman i.anima...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','i.anima...@gmail.com'); wrote: Please, let's be honest Graham, you *have* taken certain barbs at Autodesk personally, even when they were not directed personally at you or your co-workers. As Adrian said: it will take YEARS for the resentment to fizzle outjust because the list has settled down of late (it's disappointingly like a ghost town in here most days) it doesn't mean the embers of our collective anger aren't still glowing away...but don't expect users not to throw abuse occasionally when you stick your head above the parapet! # Personal experience...fast forward if you wish. Any of the ire and seething hatred that may be shining forth from my previous emails is directly because I suffered--no exaggeration--suffered through over 5 years of using Maya from late 2001 to early 2007. I know how Maya is supposed to be used and its mind-set...and it still sucks. And now, since April of this year, I have been using the current release build of Maya after hours and weekend almost 7 days a week and I find myself dragged back into that swirling vortex of pain and misery known as Maya. It has caused my blood pressure to leap up over 30 points on the systolic since I have started to use it. Maya takes so much more work to do the same things. For example: rigging in Maya sucks donkey balls...I can eventually do the same things in Maya, but the stupid hoops that I have to jump through are ridiculous; the complexity needed to achieve the same results is ludicrous. And the overall workflow of Maya has so much friction that it is unbelievable that anyone can get any work done with it and remain competitive. Earlier this year, before I got into the after-hour freelance, I really wanted to try and make a positive difference through the beta program to improve Maya since it is the only viable option to Softimage. However, every time I sit down to compose a list of all that is wrong with it and how Maya can be improved, I feel my teeth grinding, I feel the anger surging and my blood pressure soaring. In such a state, I know that my suggestions are not going to come out in a constructive manner, so I have withheld my feedback until such a time where I won't offend and the effort wont give me a stroke or a heart
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Very deep SDK with almost everything accessible, can add or replace bits to any part very very detailed command log that logs even the littlest things you do... On 09/10/14 16:46, Matt Lind wrote: Did Autodesk say that, or somebody else who just happened to be part of the show? When referencing Maya, Ive never heard anybody from Autodesk ever say it was open. Ive only heard such a statement from users. Not saying Autodesk hasnt said such a thing, just saying I have never heard them say it if they have. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:36 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I keep thinking about this sentence what do they mean by Maya being "entirely open"? Do they mean open source software? clearly that is not the case. Do they mean customisable? because this is not open in my book. Do they mean open architecture? Because although you can add components (plugins) you can't substitute the pre-existing ones (unless I am wrong here) So what do Autodesk mean by saying it is "designed to be entirely open"?? And by the way why is the Escape studio page now down http://www.escapestudios.com/softimage-artists-take-on-maya-escape-studios/ :-/// Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 9 Sep 2014, at 21:41, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: Maya does not have the eloquence or the innovative interface[which Softmage has] andis overly complex,but it has been designed to be entirely open.
RE: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
I thought the COM/MFC SDK was exposed but users revolted and insisted on having a C++ API? (hence the black box showing up around v3). Matt -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:56 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios well the Maya API is called OpenMaya, so there's that. Everything is exposed through the API, it's not a blackbox like XSI, where you can never get to the real scene graph, menus, toolbars. Although we kind thought that we would expose it all as a giant COM and MFC SDK in the beginning. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: Did Autodesk say that, or somebody else who just happened to be part of the show? When referencing Maya, I’ve never heard anybody from Autodesk ever say it was open. I’ve only heard such a statement from users. Not saying Autodesk hasn’t said such a thing, just saying I have never heard them say it if they have. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I keep thinking about this sentence… what do they mean by Maya being entirely open? Do they mean open source software? clearly that is not the case. Do they mean customisable? because this is not open in my book. Do they mean open architecture? Because although you can add components (plugins) you can't substitute the pre-existing ones (unless I am wrong here) So… what do Autodesk mean by saying it is designed to be entirely open?? And by the way… why is the Escape studio page now down http://www.escapestudios.com/softimage-artists-take-on-maya-escape-stu dios/ :-///
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Yeah, very strange the Escape Studios page down. http://www.escapestudios.com/softimage-artists-take-on-maya-escape-studios/ I agree with Jordi, in how is this open concept? When I think in open software, came in my mind Blender open source code, and Houdini in how deep you can go in customizations and data access. 2014-09-10 17:56 GMT-03:00 Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com: Very deep SDK with almost everything accessible, can add or replace bits to any part very very detailed command log that logs even the littlest things you do... On 09/10/14 16:46, Matt Lind wrote: Did Autodesk say that, or somebody else who just happened to be part of the show? When referencing Maya, I’ve never heard anybody from Autodesk ever say it was open. I’ve only heard such a statement from users. Not saying Autodesk hasn’t said such a thing, just saying I have never heard them say it if they have. Matt *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [ mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Jordi Bares *Sent:* Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:36 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I keep thinking about this sentence… what do they mean by Maya being entirely open? Do they mean open source software? clearly that is not the case. Do they mean customisable? because this is not open in my book. Do they mean open architecture? Because although you can add components (plugins) you can't substitute the pre-existing ones (unless I am wrong here) So… what do Autodesk mean by saying it is designed to be entirely open?? And by the way… why is the Escape studio page now down http://www.escapestudios.com/softimage-artists-take-on-maya-escape-studios/ :-/// Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 9 Sep 2014, at 21:41, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: Maya does not have the eloquence or the innovative interface [which Softmage has] and *is overly complex**, but it has been designed to be entirely open. * -- paulo-duarte.com
RE: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
very very detailed command log that logs even the littlest things you do... That's not always a good thing as logging takes time and slows down execution heavily. You don't want performance wasted on mundane or looped items. That's why I like the softimage scripting object model as you can bypass all that overhead and spit out information to the log only if you're interested. Makes it easier to troubleshoot too as there's less noise. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jason S Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:56 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios Very deep SDK with almost everything accessible, can add or replace bits to any part very very detailed command log that logs even the littlest things you do... On 09/10/14 16:46, Matt Lind wrote: Did Autodesk say that, or somebody else who just happened to be part of the show? When referencing Maya, I've never heard anybody from Autodesk ever say it was open. I've only heard such a statement from users. Not saying Autodesk hasn't said such a thing, just saying I have never heard them say it if they have. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:36 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.commailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I keep thinking about this sentence... what do they mean by Maya being entirely open? Do they mean open source software? clearly that is not the case. Do they mean customisable? because this is not open in my book. Do they mean open architecture? Because although you can add components (plugins) you can't substitute the pre-existing ones (unless I am wrong here) So... what do Autodesk mean by saying it is designed to be entirely open?? And by the way... why is the Escape studio page now down http://www.escapestudios.com/softimage-artists-take-on-maya-escape-studios/ :-/// Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.commailto:jordiba...@gmail.com On 9 Sep 2014, at 21:41, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.commailto:jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: Maya does not have the eloquence or the innovative interface [which Softmage has] and is overly complex, but it has been designed to be entirely open.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
It was mentioned numerous times so far during killing period of SI... end user and artist DON'T care about open or not, just need tools that work for their needs. They don't need tools to make tools but tools to get the job done. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: I thought the COM/MFC SDK was exposed but users revolted and insisted on having a C++ API? (hence the black box showing up around v3). Matt -Original Message- From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Luc-Eric Rousseau Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:56 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios well the Maya API is called OpenMaya, so there's that. Everything is exposed through the API, it's not a blackbox like XSI, where you can never get to the real scene graph, menus, toolbars. Although we kind thought that we would expose it all as a giant COM and MFC SDK in the beginning. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: Did Autodesk say that, or somebody else who just happened to be part of the show? When referencing Maya, I’ve never heard anybody from Autodesk ever say it was open. I’ve only heard such a statement from users. Not saying Autodesk hasn’t said such a thing, just saying I have never heard them say it if they have. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I keep thinking about this sentence… what do they mean by Maya being entirely open? Do they mean open source software? clearly that is not the case. Do they mean customisable? because this is not open in my book. Do they mean open architecture? Because although you can add components (plugins) you can't substitute the pre-existing ones (unless I am wrong here) So… what do Autodesk mean by saying it is designed to be entirely open?? And by the way… why is the Escape studio page now down http://www.escapestudios.com/softimage-artists-take-on-maya-escape-stu dios/ :-///
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
To be fair, the super nitty gritty stuff in Maya requires you to enable echo all commands so by default it displays about as much noise as Softimage. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: very very detailed command log that logs even the littlest things you do... That’s not always a good thing as logging takes time and slows down execution heavily. You don’t want performance wasted on mundane or looped items. That’s why I like the softimage scripting object model as you can bypass all that overhead and spit out information to the log only if you’re interested. Makes it easier to troubleshoot too as there’s less noise. Matt *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Jason S *Sent:* Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:56 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios Very deep SDK with almost everything accessible, can add or replace bits to any part very very detailed command log that logs even the littlest things you do... On 09/10/14 16:46, Matt Lind wrote: Did Autodesk say that, or somebody else who just happened to be part of the show? When referencing Maya, I’ve never heard anybody from Autodesk ever say it was open. I’ve only heard such a statement from users. Not saying Autodesk hasn’t said such a thing, just saying I have never heard them say it if they have. Matt *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [ mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Jordi Bares *Sent:* Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:36 PM *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com *Subject:* Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I keep thinking about this sentence… what do they mean by Maya being entirely open? Do they mean open source software? clearly that is not the case. Do they mean customisable? because this is not open in my book. Do they mean open architecture? Because although you can add components (plugins) you can't substitute the pre-existing ones (unless I am wrong here) So… what do Autodesk mean by saying it is designed to be entirely open?? And by the way… why is the Escape studio page now down http://www.escapestudios.com/softimage-artists-take-on-maya-escape-studios/ :-/// Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 9 Sep 2014, at 21:41, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: Maya does not have the eloquence or the innovative interface [which Softmage has] and *is overly complex**, but it has been designed to be entirely open. * -- -=T=-
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
I think this gesture is cute, but insipid. Are you planning on giving a weeks worth refresher course to EVERYONE ? or do you think everyone can come around to Maya in one week? This is once again about trying to sweeten the larger studios that might have had an affinity with XSI, looks good as a PR story, fundamentally yet another way of throwing the blame back on the user, instead of owning up to Maya's inherent weaknesses and trying to fix them. Yet again OUR fault for just not GETTING the Maya philosophy. You seem to be forgetting, no one uses maya out of the box. It would be nice to see the software grow to reflect peoples needs, instead of making excuses about why Maya skinning needs to be shit, or why Maya doesn't need a pass editor, or why the simple concept of show/hide polygons eludes the dev's to this day ? i mean anyone have any imminent use for a half baked Flip solver ? I mean I'm sure it's a nice half baked flip solver... On 10 September 2014 21:36, Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: I keep thinking about this sentence… what do they mean by Maya being entirely open? Do they mean open source software? clearly that is not the case. Do they mean customisable? because this is not open in my book. Do they mean open architecture? Because although you can add components (plugins) you can't substitute the pre-existing ones (unless I am wrong here) So… what do Autodesk mean by saying it is designed to be entirely open?? And by the way… why is the Escape studio page now down http://www.escapestudios.com/softimage-artists-take-on-maya-escape-studios/ :-/// Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 9 Sep 2014, at 21:41, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: Maya does not have the eloquence or the innovative interface [which Softmage has] and *is overly complex**, **but it has been designed to be entirely open. *
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
I agree Maya API is the strong point, very well documented and superior to anything out there (at least that I know) but that is not exclusive realm of Maya, you can develop plugins for pretty much any package and although more limiting APIs the message that seems to come across is that Maya is open (meaning customisable), the rest is not.. which is clearly not the case. Hope it makes sense Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 10 Sep 2014, at 21:56, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: Very deep SDK with almost everything accessible, can add or replace bits to any part very very detailed command log that logs even the littlest things you do... On 09/10/14 16:46, Matt Lind wrote: Did Autodesk say that, or somebody else who just happened to be part of the show? When referencing Maya, I’ve never heard anybody from Autodesk ever say it was open. I’ve only heard such a statement from users. Not saying Autodesk hasn’t said such a thing, just saying I have never heard them say it if they have. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:36 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios I keep thinking about this sentence… what do they mean by Maya being entirely open? Do they mean open source software? clearly that is not the case. Do they mean customisable? because this is not open in my book. Do they mean open architecture? Because although you can add components (plugins) you can't substitute the pre-existing ones (unless I am wrong here) So… what do Autodesk mean by saying it is designed to be entirely open?? And by the way… why is the Escape studio page now down http://www.escapestudios.com/softimage-artists-take-on-maya-escape-studios/ :-/// Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com On 9 Sep 2014, at 21:41, Jason S jasonsta...@gmail.com wrote: Maya does not have the eloquence or the innovative interface [which Softmage has] and is overly complex, but it has been designed to be entirely open.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
I guess it's good our software of choice can't be threatened anymore. On 09/10/14 17:58, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote: Not everything that's said is a threat to your software of choice. That everything in Maya is accessible and changeable though scripting or the API is not meaningless or a misused of the word Open. On Sep 10, 2014 5:42 PM, "Jordi Bares" jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: On 10 Sep 2014, at 22:36, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: “Open” is open to interpretation as you pointed out. However, it is not a comparative word as you interpreted it to be. To say the Maya SDK is open does not imply the competition isn’t open. Exactly my point. If you want to say Autodesk is trying to send the message Maya is the only option in town, then you have a point, but that’s not surprising as that’s the picture most corporate marketing campaigns try to paint regardless of product or industry. Whether they do it in good taste is another matter. All I want to say is that saying "Open" does not seem to have any meaning.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Not everything that's said is a threat to your software of choice. Our software of choice was killed on March. That everything in Maya is accessible and changeable though scripting or the API is not meaningless or a misused of the word Open. No one said being changeable via API or scripting was meaningless, jus the using Open in such a context. jb On Sep 10, 2014 5:42 PM, Jordi Bares jordiba...@gmail.com wrote: On 10 Sep 2014, at 22:36, Matt Lind ml...@carbinestudios.com wrote: “Open” is open to interpretation as you pointed out. However, it is not a comparative word as you interpreted it to be. To say the Maya SDK is open does not imply the competition isn’t open. Exactly my point. If you want to say Autodesk is trying to send the message Maya is the only option in town, then you have a point, but that’s not surprising as that’s the picture most corporate marketing campaigns try to paint regardless of product or industry. Whether they do it in good taste is another matter. All I want to say is that saying Open does not seem to have any meaning.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Talk about semantics escalating :) The word open is like saying professional grade, or robust, or a number of other things that are used because, in context, they fit. Maya offered more and sooner than everybody else things like listeners, a robust socket insertion point, an entry point into the main loop and control over things like it's main event loop sleep, process priority, exposed the graph to a fairly granular level, and offered early on what 16 years ago was a fairly modern dev model for all kind of nodes in a fashion similar to what the developers themselves would have access to. That gap has closed considerably, and in some cases Maya has been surpassed in open-ness, or at least in what you can comfortably do (viewport work in Maya is a gigantic pain in the arse in example for certain things, and contexts are weak, but that's architectural, not blackboxing), but all in all, if you decide to be objective rather than argumentative about it, it is the one DCC app out there with the most of its guts exposed to the open air. Softimage had made it to a close second and here and there even surpassed it, and in general while less open, as things tend to be better organized but abstracted away from the guts, also a helluva lot more pleasurable to work with (at least on windows). Houdini is a well known disgrace with the Boost dependencies and with the HDK being largely uncharted and unexploited, and the wrappers for it being more recent and not much better than a reshuffle. Max is single platform and incomprehensible to humans, and the rest of the apps out there barely cover half the stretch of tasks Maya, Soft and Houdini can tackle. All in all, while at (frequent) times being just as pleasant as dipping your balls in hot tar, Maya is the more open of the lot and has been for a while, because the abstractions are very thin, and access has massive surface with a lot of entry points. For what most people think of when the word open it's used in context it can lay an honest claim to being very open. It can't quite say it's intuitive, or pleasant, or well organized, or even fully featured in some regards, and it's the single most painful software out there to do prototyping work in for a lot of stuff, but it certainly isn't closed.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
The definition of the word Open will just morph again until it fits whatever argument needs to be win. The opinion that Open necessarily means open source is a neologism. There isn't just an API that matches 1:1 internals, the Maya UI is defined directly in MEL and it ships with 4 millions lines of source code in mel and python, distributed in 25,000 MEL and 4000 pythons files. This isn't just about being able to write plug-ins, back in 1990s it was a whole different approach to writing software. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Talk about semantics escalating :) The word open is like saying professional grade, or robust, or a number of other things that are used because, in context, they fit. Maya offered more and sooner than everybody else things like listeners, a robust socket insertion point, an entry point into the main loop and control over things like it's main event loop sleep, process priority, exposed the graph to a fairly granular level, and offered early on what 16 years ago was a fairly modern dev model for all kind of nodes in a fashion similar to what the developers themselves would have access to. That gap has closed considerably, and in some cases Maya has been surpassed in open-ness, or at least in what you can comfortably do (viewport work in Maya is a gigantic pain in the arse in example for certain things, and contexts are weak, but that's architectural, not blackboxing), but all in all, if you decide to be objective rather than argumentative about it, it is the one DCC app out there with the most of its guts exposed to the open air. Softimage had made it to a close second and here and there even surpassed it, and in general while less open, as things tend to be better organized but abstracted away from the guts, also a helluva lot more pleasurable to work with (at least on windows). Houdini is a well known disgrace with the Boost dependencies and with the HDK being largely uncharted and unexploited, and the wrappers for it being more recent and not much better than a reshuffle. Max is single platform and incomprehensible to humans, and the rest of the apps out there barely cover half the stretch of tasks Maya, Soft and Houdini can tackle. All in all, while at (frequent) times being just as pleasant as dipping your balls in hot tar, Maya is the more open of the lot and has been for a while, because the abstractions are very thin, and access has massive surface with a lot of entry points. For what most people think of when the word open it's used in context it can lay an honest claim to being very open. It can't quite say it's intuitive, or pleasant, or well organized, or even fully featured in some regards, and it's the single most painful software out there to do prototyping work in for a lot of stuff, but it certainly isn't closed.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
And all of that doesn't mean much to artist when still after decades of existence all that power wasn't used to provide streamlined and organised workflow and tool that simply do its job without pulling hair, rising blood pressure and shortening life by significant amount On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 1:33 AM, Luc-Eric Rousseau luceri...@gmail.com wrote: The definition of the word Open will just morph again until it fits whatever argument needs to be win. The opinion that Open necessarily means open source is a neologism. There isn't just an API that matches 1:1 internals, the Maya UI is defined directly in MEL and it ships with 4 millions lines of source code in mel and python, distributed in 25,000 MEL and 4000 pythons files. This isn't just about being able to write plug-ins, back in 1990s it was a whole different approach to writing software. On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: Talk about semantics escalating :) The word open is like saying professional grade, or robust, or a number of other things that are used because, in context, they fit. Maya offered more and sooner than everybody else things like listeners, a robust socket insertion point, an entry point into the main loop and control over things like it's main event loop sleep, process priority, exposed the graph to a fairly granular level, and offered early on what 16 years ago was a fairly modern dev model for all kind of nodes in a fashion similar to what the developers themselves would have access to. That gap has closed considerably, and in some cases Maya has been surpassed in open-ness, or at least in what you can comfortably do (viewport work in Maya is a gigantic pain in the arse in example for certain things, and contexts are weak, but that's architectural, not blackboxing), but all in all, if you decide to be objective rather than argumentative about it, it is the one DCC app out there with the most of its guts exposed to the open air. Softimage had made it to a close second and here and there even surpassed it, and in general while less open, as things tend to be better organized but abstracted away from the guts, also a helluva lot more pleasurable to work with (at least on windows). Houdini is a well known disgrace with the Boost dependencies and with the HDK being largely uncharted and unexploited, and the wrappers for it being more recent and not much better than a reshuffle. Max is single platform and incomprehensible to humans, and the rest of the apps out there barely cover half the stretch of tasks Maya, Soft and Houdini can tackle. All in all, while at (frequent) times being just as pleasant as dipping your balls in hot tar, Maya is the more open of the lot and has been for a while, because the abstractions are very thin, and access has massive surface with a lot of entry points. For what most people think of when the word open it's used in context it can lay an honest claim to being very open. It can't quite say it's intuitive, or pleasant, or well organized, or even fully featured in some regards, and it's the single most painful software out there to do prototyping work in for a lot of stuff, but it certainly isn't closed.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
The fact the guts are exposed and available, and relatively robust, doesn't mean they are pretty, make much sense, or can be combined into a streamlined user experience. Maya is clunky and counter-intuitive down to its core and in parts that no amount of plugins will fix :p From the simplest things (alt wasted on navigation enormously reducing piano playing), to the more all-comprehensive ones (selection being a gigantic joke across the board for both users and 3rd party developers). Some stuff it was doing OK or better than most before, ironically, is getting even better, and some stuff it was a misery to use before has become usable or at times even quite good. Some things though, some very, very fundamental things, will always be a pain in the arse, because that's just the way it is, and the way hundreds of thousands of people are used to suffer through it day and day out, and most will pick the pain they know over learning something new. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com wrote: And all of that doesn't mean much to artist when still after decades of existence all that power wasn't used to provide streamlined and organised workflow and tool that simply do its job without pulling hair, rising blood pressure and shortening life by significant amount
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
And there we go again... Don't you guys get bored of having the same conversation over and over again?
RE: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Would you rather have the other one about what Softimage can do that Maya can’t? ;-) Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Cesar Saez Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 5:06 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios And there we go again... Don't you guys get bored of having the same conversation over and over again?
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
I don't know, the open thing has been a running theme of Maya for years but hadn't been discussed very often here, and not everybody has a clear perspective on it or even what it entails for the end user even if they don't code. I don't find the thread completely useless to be honest. Someone will probably have got something out of it. On 11 Sep 2014 10:07, Cesar Saez cesa...@gmail.com wrote: And there we go again... Don't you guys get bored of having the same conversation over and over again?
RE: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
We could start one about open sourcing Softimage, that horse is still twitching I reckon.
RE: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
I think people would run the other way if they saw the COM OLE core fully exposed. Matt From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Raffaele Fragapane Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 5:22 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: RE: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios We could start one about open sourcing Softimage, that horse is still twitching I reckon.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: We could start one about open sourcing Softimage, that horse is still twitching I reckon. No we need one about AD selling Softimage to another company... that one is always interesting (read, not interesting and beaten to death). Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Aw.. don't make the thread self aware. It was just getting good! I still have popcorn left. :-( I might not be contributing anymore, but the rest of you are still keeping things interesting.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
You underestimate the Internets. Go ahead, start those three threads, you will still get plenty bites :) On 11 Sep 2014 11:24, Bradley Gabe witha...@gmail.com wrote: Aw.. don't make the thread self aware. It was just getting good! I still have popcorn left. :-( I might not be contributing anymore, but the rest of you are still keeping things interesting.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Is this a good time to bring up Hitler? Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Bradley Gabe witha...@gmail.com wrote: Aw.. don't make the thread self aware. It was just getting good! I still have popcorn left. :-( I might not be contributing anymore, but the rest of you are still keeping things interesting.
RE: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Don’t go there. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Thivierge Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 6:30 PM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios Is this a good time to bring up Hitler? Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Bradley Gabe witha...@gmail.commailto:witha...@gmail.com wrote: Aw.. don't make the thread self aware. It was just getting good! I still have popcorn left. :-( I might not be contributing anymore, but the rest of you are still keeping things interesting.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
You can't do that, Eric. Godwyn's law should be left to emerge naturally, not clumsily pushed like this. Shame on you! On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.com wrote: Is this a good time to bring up Hitler? Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Bradley Gabe witha...@gmail.com wrote: Aw.. don't make the thread self aware. It was just getting good! I still have popcorn left. :-( I might not be contributing anymore, but the rest of you are still keeping things interesting. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
ya! you can't just throw it out like that... On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Raffaele Fragapane raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote: You can't do that, Eric. Godwyn's law should be left to emerge naturally, not clumsily pushed like this. Shame on you! On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.com wrote: Is this a good time to bring up Hitler?
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law Godwin's law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"[2][3] —that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism. Promulgated by American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990,[2] Godwin's Law originally referred, specifically, to Usenet newsgroup discussions.[4] It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms and blog comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles and other rhetoric.[5][6] On 09/10/14 21:35, Raffaele Fragapane wrote: You can't do that, Eric. Godwyn's law should be left to emerge naturally, not clumsily pushed like this. Shame on you! On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.com wrote: Is this a good time to bring up Hitler? Eric Thivierge http://www.ethivierge.com On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Bradley Gabe witha...@gmail.com wrote: Aw.. don't make the thread self aware. It was just getting good! I still have popcorn left. :-( I might not be contributing anymore, but the rest of you are still keeping things interesting. -- Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
I simply asked, i didn't make comparisons... So I think we're still in the clear.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Man the gray of Maya's UI sure reminds me of Hitler (is that better ? :P) On 11 September 2014 03:52, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.com wrote: I simply asked, i didn't make comparisons... So I think we're still in the clear.
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
That's funny, it was the moustache that did it for me. :P On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 10:05 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Man the gray of Maya's UI sure reminds me of Hitler (is that better ? :P) On 11 September 2014 03:52, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.com wrote: I simply asked, i didn't make comparisons... So I think we're still in the clear. -- -=T=-
RE: alembic from hou to xsi issues
Hi Sebastian Do you mind sending us the Alembic file you exported from Houdini? Vec3f is a basic type we support in XSI Alembic, unless Houdini exports the data into some unexpected Alembic type. From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sebastian Kowalski Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 3:45 AM To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com Subject: Re: alembic from hou to xsi issues I can work with that issue. just writing 3 different float attributes for every vector attribute I need. Stupid, but a workaround,again. s. Am 10.09.2014 um 21:21 schrieb Andy Goehler lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.commailto:lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com: Hi Sebastian, as already mentioned Exocortex Crate does this reliable. See here: http://exocortex.com/blog/crate_custom_attribute_softimage Just a side note, getting custom attributes from XSI into Houdini can be a pain too and I've had much better luck exporting those from 2015 with its onboard Alembic than with Crate. Andy On Sep 10, 2014, at 17:29, Sebastian Kowalski l...@sekow.commailto:l...@sekow.com wrote: I am exporting some points into an alembic file from houdini to xsi and stumble on one issue. Transferring attributes works good for what you could call 'factory attributes' like P or v (we have to rename that to something with more than just one letter, cause it wont appear in xsi). But I also compute angular velocity (w) and couple other 'arbitrary user attributes', all vectors (3f). This suckers come in as single float value. Not even as a array of 3 values per point. As the same alembic file works like expected as re-import in houdini, I am pretty sure it is an eff up in xsi. Just want to make sure I am not doing something stupid. Anyone experience the same? Its with the 2015 version of xsi. sebastian -- http://www.sekow.comhttp://www.sekow.com/ attachment: winmail.dat
Re: SoftImage Artists take on Maya @ Escape Studios
Or the Youtube video when Hitler decides to buy Softimage in the behalf of AD?? --- Emilio Hernández VFX 3D animation. 2014-09-10 22:10 GMT-05:00 Eric Turman i.anima...@gmail.com: That's funny, it was the moustache that did it for me. :P On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 10:05 PM, Sebastien Sterling sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com wrote: Man the gray of Maya's UI sure reminds me of Hitler (is that better ? :P) On 11 September 2014 03:52, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.com wrote: I simply asked, i didn't make comparisons... So I think we're still in the clear. -- -=T=-
