Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

On 27 January 2016 at 05:03, Martin Yara  wrote:
> Being said that, I haven't being able to open Maya 2016 scenes in older
> versions, haven't tried that hard though. I guess I'll have to do some ASCII
> edition of the scene.

It's in Preferences->File/Projects->Version->[ x ] Ignore Version

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sebastien Sterling]

ll i guess the fact this is even possible in maya does give us
>>>>> the lie from Autodesk.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "I used this once to map the conversions necessary to create a
>>>>> Wavefront TAV to Maya material converter."
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi :) i'm an artits, i make pretty pictures , in spite of tools and an
>>>>> industry hounding me to an early grave through contempt and indifference
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you guys do much rigging at Nasa ? (this is actually a legit
>>>>> question, just as all this is not intended to antagonise you mr Ponthieux,
>>>>> just the musings of a frightened paperboy wondering how he is going to
>>>>> complete his runs now that his bicycle has been turned into snakes. )
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 26 January 2016 at 17:25, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II]
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ctrl/Alt/S   will automatically increment and save. It’s a really
>>>>>> useful feature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also recommend:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Preferences->Settings->Files/Projects->Autosave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On a similar note, I’m fairly old school regarding the file type I
>>>>>> save files in if they are critical to production. Learned a long time ago
>>>>>> that saving files in Maya ASCII had really awesome benefits. 1. It can be
>>>>>> hacked (somewhat a meticulous process) to fix a scene that might have
>>>>>> failed or to make a saved version run in an earlier release of the
>>>>>> software. I don’t know if that trick works reliably anymore though. 2. It
>>>>>> reveals a significant understanding of Maya’s MEL underbelly and the
>>>>>> seriously complex graph node connections that can exist. I used this once
>>>>>> to map the conversions necessary to create a Wavefront TAV to Maya 
>>>>>> material
>>>>>> converter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The downside to .ma though is that files can get really large. I’d
>>>>>> recommend sticking with .mb if space is an issue unless you start to
>>>>>> experience issues. Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long
>>>>>> time. But I’m sure there are still folks out there relying on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joey Ponthieux
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NASA Langley Research Center
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>>>>>>
>>>>>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>>>>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien
>>>>>> Sterling
>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:43 AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you Stefan, am glad to hear maya has this too. I could expand
>>>>>> further on the list of things maya gets wrong in this regard, but my 
>>>>>> heart
>>>>>> isn't in it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just tried modelling up a base mesh in maya, am starting to like the
>>>>>> new tools, thinking this is not so bad... less then 500 polygons in, the
>>>>>> fucker dies on me. hadn't had the reflex to save so early, lost all work 
>>>>>> i
>>>>>> hadn't sent to zbrush.
>>>>>>
>&g

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Mirko Jankovic]

;>>> Ctrl/Alt/S   will automatically increment and save. It’s a really
>>>>> useful feature.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I also recommend:
>>>>>
>>>>> Preferences->Settings->Files/Projects->Autosave
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On a similar note, I’m fairly old school regarding the file type I
>>>>> save files in if they are critical to production. Learned a long time ago
>>>>> that saving files in Maya ASCII had really awesome benefits. 1. It can be
>>>>> hacked (somewhat a meticulous process) to fix a scene that might have
>>>>> failed or to make a saved version run in an earlier release of the
>>>>> software. I don’t know if that trick works reliably anymore though. 2. It
>>>>> reveals a significant understanding of Maya’s MEL underbelly and the
>>>>> seriously complex graph node connections that can exist. I used this once
>>>>> to map the conversions necessary to create a Wavefront TAV to Maya 
>>>>> material
>>>>> converter.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The downside to .ma though is that files can get really large. I’d
>>>>> recommend sticking with .mb if space is an issue unless you start to
>>>>> experience issues. Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long
>>>>> time. But I’m sure there are still folks out there relying on it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Joey Ponthieux
>>>>>
>>>>> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)
>>>>>
>>>>> Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)
>>>>>
>>>>> NASA Langley Research Center
>>>>>
>>>>> __
>>>>>
>>>>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>>>>>
>>>>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>>>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien
>>>>> Sterling
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:43 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you Stefan, am glad to hear maya has this too. I could expand
>>>>> further on the list of things maya gets wrong in this regard, but my heart
>>>>> isn't in it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just tried modelling up a base mesh in maya, am starting to like the
>>>>> new tools, thinking this is not so bad... less then 500 polygons in, the
>>>>> fucker dies on me. hadn't had the reflex to save so early, lost all work i
>>>>> hadn't sent to zbrush.
>>>>>
>>>>> am so tiered of this shit  (head in hands)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 26 January 2016 at 13:23, Gerbrand Nel  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Houdini has this.. kinda, you select by weight on the mesh.
>>>>> But it doesn't work with my wacom for some reason :(
>>>>> G
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25/01/2016 10:04, Sebastien Sterling wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes weight painting is bullshit for precise work, however if you don't
>>>>> have much time and you need it to be quick and can afford it being 
>>>>> dirty...
>>>>>
>>>>> It's been a while, so i don't remember, but is Soft the only package
>>>>> with a workflow to select the bone you want to weight to directly in the
>>>>> viewport? instead of scrolling endlessly through lists ? its kinda clunky
>>>>> in soft, (takes a few seconds for the selected deformer to register). but
>>>>> it works!
>>>>>
>>>>> Does nothing else have this functionality? it seems like such a no
>>>>> brainner...
>>>>>
>>>>> Maya is exceptionally guilty of the joint list scrolling, 

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Martin Yara]

Maya ASCII had really awesome benefits. 1. It can be hacked
>>>> (somewhat a meticulous process) to fix a scene that might have failed or to
>>>> make a saved version run in an earlier release of the software. I don’t
>>>> know if that trick works reliably anymore though. 2. It reveals a
>>>> significant understanding of Maya’s MEL underbelly and the seriously
>>>> complex graph node connections that can exist. I used this once to map the
>>>> conversions necessary to create a Wavefront TAV to Maya material converter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The downside to .ma though is that files can get really large. I’d
>>>> recommend sticking with .mb if space is an issue unless you start to
>>>> experience issues. Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long
>>>> time. But I’m sure there are still folks out there relying on it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Joey Ponthieux
>>>>
>>>> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)
>>>>
>>>> Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)
>>>>
>>>> NASA Langley Research Center
>>>>
>>>> __
>>>>
>>>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>>>>
>>>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien
>>>> Sterling
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:43 AM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you Stefan, am glad to hear maya has this too. I could expand
>>>> further on the list of things maya gets wrong in this regard, but my heart
>>>> isn't in it.
>>>>
>>>> Just tried modelling up a base mesh in maya, am starting to like the
>>>> new tools, thinking this is not so bad... less then 500 polygons in, the
>>>> fucker dies on me. hadn't had the reflex to save so early, lost all work i
>>>> hadn't sent to zbrush.
>>>>
>>>> am so tiered of this shit  (head in hands)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 26 January 2016 at 13:23, Gerbrand Nel  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Houdini has this.. kinda, you select by weight on the mesh.
>>>> But it doesn't work with my wacom for some reason :(
>>>> G
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 25/01/2016 10:04, Sebastien Sterling wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes weight painting is bullshit for precise work, however if you don't
>>>> have much time and you need it to be quick and can afford it being dirty...
>>>>
>>>> It's been a while, so i don't remember, but is Soft the only package
>>>> with a workflow to select the bone you want to weight to directly in the
>>>> viewport? instead of scrolling endlessly through lists ? its kinda clunky
>>>> in soft, (takes a few seconds for the selected deformer to register). but
>>>> it works!
>>>>
>>>> Does nothing else have this functionality? it seems like such a no
>>>> brainner...
>>>>
>>>> Maya is exceptionally guilty of the joint list scrolling, as the window
>>>> is tiny, can not be resized (to my knowledge) and in spite of this,
>>>> requires you to lock every bone but the 2 you are weighting,  manually !
>>>> forcing you to run up and down every time you need to change what you are
>>>> skinning to.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 25 January 2016 at 07:03, Martin Yara  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For v2014 and later I'd recommend Skin Wrangler, a pyQT+python tool
>>>> that is pretty good for that kind of workflow. And for 2013 and previous
>>>> versions without pyQT support, Max Skin Weight Tool, a mel script based on
>>>> Max workflow.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In games, at least here and other places I've worked, we rarely use
>>>> paint weights because it is more common to have mistakes

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Tom Kleinenberg]

 Wavefront TAV to Maya material converter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The downside to .ma though is that files can get really large. I’d
>>>> recommend sticking with .mb if space is an issue unless you start to
>>>> experience issues. Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long
>>>> time. But I’m sure there are still folks out there relying on it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Joey Ponthieux
>>>>
>>>> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)
>>>>
>>>> Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)
>>>>
>>>> NASA Langley Research Center
>>>>
>>>> __
>>>>
>>>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>>>>
>>>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien
>>>> Sterling
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:43 AM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you Stefan, am glad to hear maya has this too. I could expand
>>>> further on the list of things maya gets wrong in this regard, but my heart
>>>> isn't in it.
>>>>
>>>> Just tried modelling up a base mesh in maya, am starting to like the
>>>> new tools, thinking this is not so bad... less then 500 polygons in, the
>>>> fucker dies on me. hadn't had the reflex to save so early, lost all work i
>>>> hadn't sent to zbrush.
>>>>
>>>> am so tiered of this shit  (head in hands)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 26 January 2016 at 13:23, Gerbrand Nel  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Houdini has this.. kinda, you select by weight on the mesh.
>>>> But it doesn't work with my wacom for some reason :(
>>>> G
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 25/01/2016 10:04, Sebastien Sterling wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes weight painting is bullshit for precise work, however if you don't
>>>> have much time and you need it to be quick and can afford it being dirty...
>>>>
>>>> It's been a while, so i don't remember, but is Soft the only package
>>>> with a workflow to select the bone you want to weight to directly in the
>>>> viewport? instead of scrolling endlessly through lists ? its kinda clunky
>>>> in soft, (takes a few seconds for the selected deformer to register). but
>>>> it works!
>>>>
>>>> Does nothing else have this functionality? it seems like such a no
>>>> brainner...
>>>>
>>>> Maya is exceptionally guilty of the joint list scrolling, as the window
>>>> is tiny, can not be resized (to my knowledge) and in spite of this,
>>>> requires you to lock every bone but the 2 you are weighting,  manually !
>>>> forcing you to run up and down every time you need to change what you are
>>>> skinning to.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 25 January 2016 at 07:03, Martin Yara  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For v2014 and later I'd recommend Skin Wrangler, a pyQT+python tool
>>>> that is pretty good for that kind of workflow. And for 2013 and previous
>>>> versions without pyQT support, Max Skin Weight Tool, a mel script based on
>>>> Max workflow.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In games, at least here and other places I've worked, we rarely use
>>>> paint weights because it is more common to have mistakes and uneven 
>>>> weights.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maya's Weight Hammer is the equivalent to Softimage's smooth weights,
>>>> but way inferior and without any option at all. I rarely use it because it
>>>> tends to mess up my weights smoothing it too much and using influences I
>>>> don't want to. SI's smooth weights could work very nice selecting all
>>>> points (ex: the whole snake model), while Maya's Hammer do som

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sebastien Sterling]

Sorry Cesar, am having an off day, will be better soon.

As for what happened to the list, i think it's name sake died (or was
smothered with a pillow).

on the bright side, we learned, that maya has a method for picking joint
influences...

some tips on rigging from Adam ...

that mGear is a very good solution for rigging...

that you can hack .ma files to fix your scenes remotely...

that Seb should stick to his Valium prescription ...

So yea lot of rants, but also some good info :)

On 26 January 2016 at 21:16, Cesar Saez  wrote:

> That's the attitude...
>
> What happened to this list? It used to be so good :(
> On 27 Jan 2016 7:09 am, "Sebastien Sterling" 
> wrote:
>
>> "Ctrl/Alt/S   will automatically increment and save. It’s a really useful
>> feature."
>>
>>
>> Same as Mudbox, yes i know.
>>
>>
>>
>> "I also recommend:
>> Preferences->Settings->Files/Projects->Autosave"
>>
>> As great a source of system crashes and file corruptions, as of actual
>> legitimate saved situations. i've had to disable it in the past as it would
>> crash on every routine backup, as there was some plug-in it didn't like, or
>> the sky outside wasn't to it's liking, or 42 ...
>>
>> "Learned a long time ago that saving files in Maya ASCII had really
>> awesome benefits. "
>>
>> I always save in .ma, these are not benefits they are flaws
>>
>> 1 "It can be hacked" it should not have to be hacked, EVER. plus my CV
>> reads BA HONS in Film and Animation, not ancient Sumerian texts from 1963
>> .
>>
>> 2 "make a saved version run in an earlier release of the software." Gona
>> have to go with, The software industry are Bastards ? inbuilt Obsolescence
>> anyone ? Still i guess the fact this is even possible in maya does give us
>> the lie from Autodesk.
>>
>>
>> "I used this once to map the conversions necessary to create a Wavefront
>> TAV to Maya material converter."
>>
>> Hi :) i'm an artits, i make pretty pictures , in spite of tools and an
>> industry hounding me to an early grave through contempt and indifference.
>>
>>
>> Do you guys do much rigging at Nasa ? (this is actually a legit
>> question, just as all this is not intended to antagonise you mr Ponthieux,
>> just the musings of a frightened paperboy wondering how he is going to
>> complete his runs now that his bicycle has been turned into snakes. )
>>
>>
>> On 26 January 2016 at 17:25, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] <
>> j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> Ctrl/Alt/S   will automatically increment and save. It’s a really useful
>>> feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I also recommend:
>>>
>>> Preferences->Settings->Files/Projects->Autosave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On a similar note, I’m fairly old school regarding the file type I save
>>> files in if they are critical to production. Learned a long time ago that
>>> saving files in Maya ASCII had really awesome benefits. 1. It can be hacked
>>> (somewhat a meticulous process) to fix a scene that might have failed or to
>>> make a saved version run in an earlier release of the software. I don’t
>>> know if that trick works reliably anymore though. 2. It reveals a
>>> significant understanding of Maya’s MEL underbelly and the seriously
>>> complex graph node connections that can exist. I used this once to map the
>>> conversions necessary to create a Wavefront TAV to Maya material converter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The downside to .ma though is that files can get really large. I’d
>>> recommend sticking with .mb if space is an issue unless you start to
>>> experience issues. Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long
>>> time. But I’m sure there are still folks out there relying on it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Joey Ponthieux
>>>
>>> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)
>>>
>>> Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)
>>>
>>> NASA Langley Research Center
>>>
>>> __
>>>
>>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>>>
>>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>>> softimage-

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Eric Turman]

"...just the musings of a frightened paperboy wondering how he is going to
complete his runs now that his bicycle has been turned into snakes."

hahahahahaha! Sebastien, best analogy so far this year.

=)



On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Cesar Saez  wrote:

> That's the attitude...
>
> What happened to this list? It used to be so good :(
> On 27 Jan 2016 7:09 am, "Sebastien Sterling" 
> wrote:
>
>> "Ctrl/Alt/S   will automatically increment and save. It’s a really useful
>> feature."
>>
>>
>> Same as Mudbox, yes i know.
>>
>>
>>
>> "I also recommend:
>> Preferences->Settings->Files/Projects->Autosave"
>>
>> As great a source of system crashes and file corruptions, as of actual
>> legitimate saved situations. i've had to disable it in the past as it would
>> crash on every routine backup, as there was some plug-in it didn't like, or
>> the sky outside wasn't to it's liking, or 42 ...
>>
>> "Learned a long time ago that saving files in Maya ASCII had really
>> awesome benefits. "
>>
>> I always save in .ma, these are not benefits they are flaws
>>
>> 1 "It can be hacked" it should not have to be hacked, EVER. plus my CV
>> reads BA HONS in Film and Animation, not ancient Sumerian texts from 1963
>> .
>>
>> 2 "make a saved version run in an earlier release of the software." Gona
>> have to go with, The software industry are Bastards ? inbuilt Obsolescence
>> anyone ? Still i guess the fact this is even possible in maya does give us
>> the lie from Autodesk.
>>
>>
>> "I used this once to map the conversions necessary to create a Wavefront
>> TAV to Maya material converter."
>>
>> Hi :) i'm an artits, i make pretty pictures , in spite of tools and an
>> industry hounding me to an early grave through contempt and indifference.
>>
>>
>> Do you guys do much rigging at Nasa ? (this is actually a legit
>> question, just as all this is not intended to antagonise you mr Ponthieux,
>> just the musings of a frightened paperboy wondering how he is going to
>> complete his runs now that his bicycle has been turned into snakes. )
>>
>>
>> On 26 January 2016 at 17:25, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] <
>> j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> Ctrl/Alt/S   will automatically increment and save. It’s a really useful
>>> feature.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I also recommend:
>>>
>>> Preferences->Settings->Files/Projects->Autosave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On a similar note, I’m fairly old school regarding the file type I save
>>> files in if they are critical to production. Learned a long time ago that
>>> saving files in Maya ASCII had really awesome benefits. 1. It can be hacked
>>> (somewhat a meticulous process) to fix a scene that might have failed or to
>>> make a saved version run in an earlier release of the software. I don’t
>>> know if that trick works reliably anymore though. 2. It reveals a
>>> significant understanding of Maya’s MEL underbelly and the seriously
>>> complex graph node connections that can exist. I used this once to map the
>>> conversions necessary to create a Wavefront TAV to Maya material converter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The downside to .ma though is that files can get really large. I’d
>>> recommend sticking with .mb if space is an issue unless you start to
>>> experience issues. Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long
>>> time. But I’m sure there are still folks out there relying on it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Joey Ponthieux
>>>
>>> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)
>>>
>>> Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)
>>>
>>> NASA Langley Research Center
>>>
>>> __
>>>
>>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>>>
>>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien
>>> Sterling
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:43 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>>>
&

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Cesar Saez]

That's the attitude...

What happened to this list? It used to be so good :(
On 27 Jan 2016 7:09 am, "Sebastien Sterling" 
wrote:

> "Ctrl/Alt/S   will automatically increment and save. It’s a really useful
> feature."
>
>
> Same as Mudbox, yes i know.
>
>
>
> "I also recommend:
> Preferences->Settings->Files/Projects->Autosave"
>
> As great a source of system crashes and file corruptions, as of actual
> legitimate saved situations. i've had to disable it in the past as it would
> crash on every routine backup, as there was some plug-in it didn't like, or
> the sky outside wasn't to it's liking, or 42 ...
>
> "Learned a long time ago that saving files in Maya ASCII had really
> awesome benefits. "
>
> I always save in .ma, these are not benefits they are flaws
>
> 1 "It can be hacked" it should not have to be hacked, EVER. plus my CV
> reads BA HONS in Film and Animation, not ancient Sumerian texts from 1963.
>
> 2 "make a saved version run in an earlier release of the software." Gona
> have to go with, The software industry are Bastards ? inbuilt Obsolescence
> anyone ? Still i guess the fact this is even possible in maya does give us
> the lie from Autodesk.
>
>
> "I used this once to map the conversions necessary to create a Wavefront
> TAV to Maya material converter."
>
> Hi :) i'm an artits, i make pretty pictures , in spite of tools and an
> industry hounding me to an early grave through contempt and indifference.
>
>
> Do you guys do much rigging at Nasa ? (this is actually a legit question,
> just as all this is not intended to antagonise you mr Ponthieux, just the
> musings of a frightened paperboy wondering how he is going to complete his
> runs now that his bicycle has been turned into snakes. )
>
>
> On 26 January 2016 at 17:25, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] <
> j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>> Ctrl/Alt/S   will automatically increment and save. It’s a really useful
>> feature.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also recommend:
>>
>> Preferences->Settings->Files/Projects->Autosave
>>
>>
>>
>> On a similar note, I’m fairly old school regarding the file type I save
>> files in if they are critical to production. Learned a long time ago that
>> saving files in Maya ASCII had really awesome benefits. 1. It can be hacked
>> (somewhat a meticulous process) to fix a scene that might have failed or to
>> make a saved version run in an earlier release of the software. I don’t
>> know if that trick works reliably anymore though. 2. It reveals a
>> significant understanding of Maya’s MEL underbelly and the seriously
>> complex graph node connections that can exist. I used this once to map the
>> conversions necessary to create a Wavefront TAV to Maya material converter.
>>
>>
>>
>> The downside to .ma though is that files can get really large. I’d
>> recommend sticking with .mb if space is an issue unless you start to
>> experience issues. Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long
>> time. But I’m sure there are still folks out there relying on it.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Joey Ponthieux
>>
>> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)
>>
>> Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)
>>
>> NASA Langley Research Center
>>
>> __
>>
>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>>
>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien
>> Sterling
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:43 AM
>>
>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you Stefan, am glad to hear maya has this too. I could expand
>> further on the list of things maya gets wrong in this regard, but my heart
>> isn't in it.
>>
>> Just tried modelling up a base mesh in maya, am starting to like the new
>> tools, thinking this is not so bad... less then 500 polygons in, the fucker
>> dies on me. hadn't had the reflex to save so early, lost all work i hadn't
>> sent to zbrush.
>>
>> am so tiered of this shit  (head in hands)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 26 January 2016 at 13:23, Gerbrand Nel  wrote:
>>
>> Houdini has this.. 

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sebastien Sterling]

"Ctrl/Alt/S   will automatically increment and save. It’s a really useful
feature."


Same as Mudbox, yes i know.



"I also recommend:
Preferences->Settings->Files/Projects->Autosave"

As great a source of system crashes and file corruptions, as of actual
legitimate saved situations. i've had to disable it in the past as it would
crash on every routine backup, as there was some plug-in it didn't like, or
the sky outside wasn't to it's liking, or 42 ...

"Learned a long time ago that saving files in Maya ASCII had really awesome
benefits. "

I always save in .ma, these are not benefits they are flaws

1 "It can be hacked" it should not have to be hacked, EVER. plus my CV
reads BA HONS in Film and Animation, not ancient Sumerian texts from 1963.

2 "make a saved version run in an earlier release of the software." Gona
have to go with, The software industry are Bastards ? inbuilt Obsolescence
anyone ? Still i guess the fact this is even possible in maya does give us
the lie from Autodesk.


"I used this once to map the conversions necessary to create a Wavefront
TAV to Maya material converter."

Hi :) i'm an artits, i make pretty pictures , in spite of tools and an
industry hounding me to an early grave through contempt and indifference.


Do you guys do much rigging at Nasa ? (this is actually a legit question,
just as all this is not intended to antagonise you mr Ponthieux, just the
musings of a frightened paperboy wondering how he is going to complete his
runs now that his bicycle has been turned into snakes. )


On 26 January 2016 at 17:25, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] <
j.ponthi...@nasa.gov> wrote:

> Ctrl/Alt/S   will automatically increment and save. It’s a really useful
> feature.
>
>
>
> I also recommend:
>
> Preferences->Settings->Files/Projects->Autosave
>
>
>
> On a similar note, I’m fairly old school regarding the file type I save
> files in if they are critical to production. Learned a long time ago that
> saving files in Maya ASCII had really awesome benefits. 1. It can be hacked
> (somewhat a meticulous process) to fix a scene that might have failed or to
> make a saved version run in an earlier release of the software. I don’t
> know if that trick works reliably anymore though. 2. It reveals a
> significant understanding of Maya’s MEL underbelly and the seriously
> complex graph node connections that can exist. I used this once to map the
> conversions necessary to create a Wavefront TAV to Maya material converter.
>
>
>
> The downside to .ma though is that files can get really large. I’d
> recommend sticking with .mb if space is an issue unless you start to
> experience issues. Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long
> time. But I’m sure there are still folks out there relying on it.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Joey Ponthieux
>
> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)
>
> Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)
>
> NASA Langley Research Center
>
> __
>
> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>
> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien Sterling
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:43 AM
>
> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>
>
>
> Thank you Stefan, am glad to hear maya has this too. I could expand
> further on the list of things maya gets wrong in this regard, but my heart
> isn't in it.
>
> Just tried modelling up a base mesh in maya, am starting to like the new
> tools, thinking this is not so bad... less then 500 polygons in, the fucker
> dies on me. hadn't had the reflex to save so early, lost all work i hadn't
> sent to zbrush.
>
> am so tiered of this shit  (head in hands)
>
>
>
>
>
> On 26 January 2016 at 13:23, Gerbrand Nel  wrote:
>
> Houdini has this.. kinda, you select by weight on the mesh.
> But it doesn't work with my wacom for some reason :(
> G
>
>
> On 25/01/2016 10:04, Sebastien Sterling wrote:
>
> Yes weight painting is bullshit for precise work, however if you don't
> have much time and you need it to be quick and can afford it being dirty...
>
> It's been a while, so i don't remember, but is Soft the only package with
> a workflow to select the bone you want to weight to directly in the
> viewport? instead of scrolling endlessly through lists ? its kinda clunky
> in soft, (takes a few seconds for the selected deformer to register). but
> it works

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sebastien Sterling]

Martin

Yes mGear needs to be installed on all the machines using it, there is also
a difference in the installation process between OSX and windows, on mac
you have to install one of the solvers manually ?

I just finished using it in a small production, it  is very good, latest
version is 1.1

You have to add the metacarpal module manually, which isn't too hard just a
matter of re parenting the different elements back into the hierarchy

Miquel Campos has monetized a very cheap guide to mGear, which in addition
to breaking down the mGear work flow, also gives some nice rigging theory
tips, if ever you where ignorant in such matters. This is all on Gumroad.



On 26 January 2016 at 19:28, Adam Sale  wrote:

> Martin. Are you using mocap at all? If so,  I would recommend constructing
> your own simple FK skeleton, managing its joint orients carefully in Maya,
> and then characterize it with HIK in Maya before sending it to Mobu if
> thats a part of your process.
>
> I've never really thought about using HIK as a standalone rigging solution
> in and of itself. Is anyone doing this?
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES
> II]  wrote:
>
>> It (.ma) was probably the only thing I missed from Maya when I
>> transitioned back to XSI. Well, that and NURBS modeling.
>>
>>
>>
>> I should add, if folks get into a habit of using this practice to hack
>> data into and out of Maya, one of the best and cleanest ways to start is to
>> use Maya ASCII with the Export and Import commands.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.   It will reduce the .ma file to only the things relevant that
>> you choose to export/import.
>>
>> 2.   It will ignore a significant amount of the interface setup in
>> both directions
>>
>> 3.   Exports are automatically formatted to be “imported”
>>
>> 4.   The redaction will make the MEL data easier to understand and
>> more specific to your stated goal.
>>
>>
>>
>> In general, once you get used to it and know what to ignore or be aware
>> of you can manually generate .ma files to import data into existing scenes
>> or use the exports to decipher the scene/graph structure. If you are
>> curious how this works, create a simple primitive and export it as .ma.
>> Then interrogate the file with a text editor. It will give a sense of how a
>> lot of the scene graph connections are structured but without the
>> extraneous scene setup data. Be warned however, never hack or manually
>> create an importable .ma without testing it on a dummy scene. A bad custom
>> connectAttr command can blow Maya up faster than the speed of light. Oh,
>> the fun we used to have back in the day….
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Joey Ponthieux
>>
>> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)
>>
>> Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)
>>
>> NASA Langley Research Center
>>
>> __
>>
>> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>>
>> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Rob Wuijster
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2016 1:46 PM
>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>>
>>
>>
>> "Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long time. But I’m
>> sure there are still folks out there relying on it."
>>
>>
>> Oh definitely!
>>
>> Using (and hacking) .ma files is still very useful when dealing with
>> multiple external sources. e.g. reference files, textures, plugins etc.
>> It's easy to  clean out certain parts of the file header, so you can have
>> Maya open a scene without throwing a ton of errors and go 'belly up'
>> because something "important" is missing.
>>
>> Other than that, I do miss working in Softimage :-(
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> \/-\/\/
>>
>> On 26-1-2016 18:25, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] wrote:
>>
>> Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long time. But I’m sure
>> there are still folks out there relying on it.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Adam Sale]

Martin. Are you using mocap at all? If so,  I would recommend constructing
your own simple FK skeleton, managing its joint orients carefully in Maya,
and then characterize it with HIK in Maya before sending it to Mobu if
thats a part of your process.

I've never really thought about using HIK as a standalone rigging solution
in and of itself. Is anyone doing this?

Adam



On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II]
 wrote:

> It (.ma) was probably the only thing I missed from Maya when I
> transitioned back to XSI. Well, that and NURBS modeling.
>
>
>
> I should add, if folks get into a habit of using this practice to hack
> data into and out of Maya, one of the best and cleanest ways to start is to
> use Maya ASCII with the Export and Import commands.
>
>
>
> 1.   It will reduce the .ma file to only the things relevant that you
> choose to export/import.
>
> 2.   It will ignore a significant amount of the interface setup in
> both directions
>
> 3.   Exports are automatically formatted to be “imported”
>
> 4.   The redaction will make the MEL data easier to understand and
> more specific to your stated goal.
>
>
>
> In general, once you get used to it and know what to ignore or be aware of
> you can manually generate .ma files to import data into existing scenes or
> use the exports to decipher the scene/graph structure. If you are curious
> how this works, create a simple primitive and export it as .ma. Then
> interrogate the file with a text editor. It will give a sense of how a lot
> of the scene graph connections are structured but without the extraneous
> scene setup data. Be warned however, never hack or manually create an
> importable .ma without testing it on a dummy scene. A bad custom
> connectAttr command can blow Maya up faster than the speed of light. Oh,
> the fun we used to have back in the day….
>
>
>
> --
>
> Joey Ponthieux
>
> LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)
>
> Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)
>
> NASA Langley Research Center
>
> __
>
> Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
>
> represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Rob Wuijster
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2016 1:46 PM
> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>
>
>
> "Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long time. But I’m
> sure there are still folks out there relying on it."
>
>
> Oh definitely!
>
> Using (and hacking) .ma files is still very useful when dealing with
> multiple external sources. e.g. reference files, textures, plugins etc.
> It's easy to  clean out certain parts of the file header, so you can have
> Maya open a scene without throwing a ton of errors and go 'belly up'
> because something "important" is missing.
>
> Other than that, I do miss working in Softimage :-(
>
>
>
>
>
> Rob
>
> \/-\/\/
>
> On 26-1-2016 18:25, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] wrote:
>
> Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long time. But I’m sure
> there are still folks out there relying on it.
>
>
>

RE: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II]]

It (.ma) was probably the only thing I missed from Maya when I transitioned 
back to XSI. Well, that and NURBS modeling.

I should add, if folks get into a habit of using this practice to hack data 
into and out of Maya, one of the best and cleanest ways to start is to use Maya 
ASCII with the Export and Import commands.


1.   It will reduce the .ma file to only the things relevant that you 
choose to export/import.

2.   It will ignore a significant amount of the interface setup in both 
directions

3.   Exports are automatically formatted to be “imported”

4.   The redaction will make the MEL data easier to understand and more 
specific to your stated goal.

In general, once you get used to it and know what to ignore or be aware of you 
can manually generate .ma files to import data into existing scenes or use the 
exports to decipher the scene/graph structure. If you are curious how this 
works, create a simple primitive and export it as .ma. Then interrogate the 
file with a text editor. It will give a sense of how a lot of the scene graph 
connections are structured but without the extraneous scene setup data. Be 
warned however, never hack or manually create an importable .ma without testing 
it on a dummy scene. A bad custom connectAttr command can blow Maya up faster 
than the speed of light. Oh, the fun we used to have back in the day….

--
Joey Ponthieux
LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)
Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)
NASA Langley Research Center
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Rob Wuijster
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 1:46 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

"Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long time. But I’m sure 
there are still folks out there relying on it."

Oh definitely!

Using (and hacking) .ma files is still very useful when dealing with multiple 
external sources. e.g. reference files, textures, plugins etc.
It's easy to  clean out certain parts of the file header, so you can have Maya 
open a scene without throwing a ton of errors and go 'belly up' because 
something "important" is missing.

Other than that, I do miss working in Softimage :-(






Rob

\/-\/\/
On 26-1-2016 18:25, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] wrote:
Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long time. But I’m sure there 
are still folks out there relying on it.

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Martin]

Hi, talking about rigging. I have to rig a character in Maya, a robot that 
transforms in an airplane similar to the transformers cartoon from the 80s.

My client suggested me to use HIK as a base and I'm not quite sure how well 
that would work. (I've only watched some HIK videos, haven't used it yet)
Do you know any tool that can make my life easier? because I may need to do it 
with a few more robots with similar composition. It's low poly so I need 
something simple, but I haven't rig in Maya since.. like 8 years ago. So far 
I'm inclined to try HIK or do the old fashion style with default tools.

I haven't used mGear yet either, does it need to be installed to open a mGear 
rigged file? I don't think my client would want to install anything in their 
PCs only to use my rig.

Thanks

Martin
Sent from my iPhone

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Rob Wuijster]

"Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long time. But I’m 
sure there are still folks out there relying on it."


Oh definitely!

Using (and hacking) .ma files is still very useful when dealing with 
multiple external sources. e.g. reference files, textures, plugins etc.
It's easy to  clean out certain parts of the file header, so you can 
have Maya open a scene without throwing a ton of errors and go 'belly 
up' because something "important" is missing.


Other than that, I do miss working in Softimage :-(


Rob
\/-\/\/

On 26-1-2016 18:25, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II] wrote:
Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long time. But I’m 
sure there are still folks out there relying on it. 

RE: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II]]

Ctrl/Alt/S   will automatically increment and save. It’s a really useful 
feature.

I also recommend:
Preferences->Settings->Files/Projects->Autosave

On a similar note, I’m fairly old school regarding the file type I save files 
in if they are critical to production. Learned a long time ago that saving 
files in Maya ASCII had really awesome benefits. 1. It can be hacked (somewhat 
a meticulous process) to fix a scene that might have failed or to make a saved 
version run in an earlier release of the software. I don’t know if that trick 
works reliably anymore though. 2. It reveals a significant understanding of 
Maya’s MEL underbelly and the seriously complex graph node connections that can 
exist. I used this once to map the conversions necessary to create a Wavefront 
TAV to Maya material converter.

The downside to .ma though is that files can get really large. I’d recommend 
sticking with .mb if space is an issue unless you start to experience issues. 
Haven’t had a need to hack a .ma file in a really long time. But I’m sure there 
are still folks out there relying on it.

--
Joey Ponthieux
LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)
Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)
NASA Langley Research Center
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sebastien Sterling
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:43 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

Thank you Stefan, am glad to hear maya has this too. I could expand further on 
the list of things maya gets wrong in this regard, but my heart isn't in it.
Just tried modelling up a base mesh in maya, am starting to like the new tools, 
thinking this is not so bad... less then 500 polygons in, the fucker dies on 
me. hadn't had the reflex to save so early, lost all work i hadn't sent to 
zbrush.
am so tiered of this shit  (head in hands)


On 26 January 2016 at 13:23, Gerbrand Nel 
mailto:nagv...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Houdini has this.. kinda, you select by weight on the mesh.
But it doesn't work with my wacom for some reason :(
G

On 25/01/2016 10:04, Sebastien Sterling wrote:
Yes weight painting is bullshit for precise work, however if you don't have 
much time and you need it to be quick and can afford it being dirty...
It's been a while, so i don't remember, but is Soft the only package with a 
workflow to select the bone you want to weight to directly in the viewport? 
instead of scrolling endlessly through lists ? its kinda clunky in soft, (takes 
a few seconds for the selected deformer to register). but it works!
Does nothing else have this functionality? it seems like such a no brainner...
Maya is exceptionally guilty of the joint list scrolling, as the window is 
tiny, can not be resized (to my knowledge) and in spite of this, requires you 
to lock every bone but the 2 you are weighting,  manually ! forcing you to run 
up and down every time you need to change what you are skinning to.


On 25 January 2016 at 07:03, Martin Yara 
mailto:furik...@gmail.com>> wrote:
For v2014 and later I'd recommend Skin Wrangler, a pyQT+python tool that is 
pretty good for that kind of workflow. And for 2013 and previous versions 
without pyQT support, Max Skin Weight Tool, a mel script based on Max workflow.

In games, at least here and other places I've worked, we rarely use paint 
weights because it is more common to have mistakes and uneven weights.

Maya's Weight Hammer is the equivalent to Softimage's smooth weights, but way 
inferior and without any option at all. I rarely use it because it tends to 
mess up my weights smoothing it too much and using influences I don't want to. 
SI's smooth weights could work very nice selecting all points (ex: the whole 
snake model), while Maya's Hammer do some decent job only if you select the 
points where the joints intersect.

If someone at Autodesk is reading, is it possible to have Softimage Smooth 
Weights to be ported to Maya?

ngSkinTools smooth was nice, but I didn't get used to it's workflow. I may give 
it another try when I need to paint weights.

I found another tool called as_SmoothNearest that looked good in the video 
demo, but it ended up being a combination of the Maya's default Weight Hammer 
command and grow selection. And without using the normalizing option with a 
potentially risk to have 1+ total weights per point. I fixed that code but, 
still  not quite what I wanted.

I ended up writing a custom tool to use smooth paint for selected weights and 
lock all the other joints so it would only smooth based on the selected points 
deformers. Now with that, SkinWrangler and Maya's Heat Map, m

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sebastien Sterling]

com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Man I feel you guys’ pain.
>>>>
>>>> I haven’t rigged in Maya for a while, but the thing is if you’ve been
>>>> in Maya land for some time, then you kinda get to know how it works and get
>>>> the best from it. Many guys like it, because they can get quiet deep into
>>>> it, but like anything it’s not without its eccentricities. If you’re gonna
>>>> keep on comparing to Soft though, then you’re in for constant
>>>> disappointment. But holey moly don’t go near Max for rigging, imho. J
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As Adam says, there’s been a lot of talk on Beta about the rigging and
>>>> without breeching NDAs there is a desire to start addressing stuff. It
>>>> seems the work on the parallel performance in 2016 perhaps might be the
>>>> start of that. Certainly that stuff has gone down well with people.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On the modelling front, Maya’s been going through an overhaul in recent
>>>> versions. Up to 2016 there was a lot of overlap between what was the NEX
>>>> stuff and the legacy Maya tools, but a lot of that got fixed in 2016
>>>> onwards. Imo I like the modelling in 2016, it’s in a very good state. The
>>>> improvement in the pivot editing alone was worth it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* 
>>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>>>> 
>>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien
>>>> Sterling
>>>> *Sent:* 24 January 2016 09:06
>>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Jordi Bear ! what is skinning like in Houdini ? and have you tried
>>>> Fabric for rigging ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 24 January 2016 at 08:56, Jordi Bares < 
>>>> jordiba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It may not be the only solution, it is really up to you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 23 January 2016 at 18:54, F Sanchez < 
>>>> youngupstar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will ever take the place
>>>> of Maya? (Besides a future resurrection of Softimage which is not going to
>>>> happen. ) Sure I can use XSI when working on my own but if you need to work
>>>> on site it will now have to be Maya from now on. :(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
>>>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
>>>> rigging"
>>>>
>>>> Here, here man !
>>>>
>>>> "I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
>>>> heavy work. I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do
>>>> all the heavy work. "
>>>>
>>>> so you can build a Rig in fabric, as a generalist ?
>>>>
>>>> can you paint weights in it as well ?
>>>>
>>>> I too hope Fabric blossoms into the next era of DCC's
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 23 January 2016 at 00:48, Michael Amasio <
>>>> michael.ama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
>>>> rigging.  It's not all that magical for something complex in Maya.  Which
>>>> as I'm sure several of you have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem.
>>>> I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
>>>> heavy work.
>>>> But when it approaches the quality I require, fabric is providing all
>>>> the computational speed I need , BUT all that speed is lost as it converts
>>>> data back and forth between data Maya can use and KL.   I actually get
>>>> faster results out of the new Maya GPU accelerated.
>>>> ...but faster results out of XSI.  Good old XSI.
>>>> I love it when a studio has like one license for XSI.   I always snatch
>>>> it up and never turn my box off.
>>>> I&

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Gerbrand Nel]

eople.

On the modelling front, Maya’s been going through an
overhaul in recent versions. Up to 2016 there was a lot of
overlap between what was the NEX stuff and the legacy Maya
tools, but a lot of that got fixed in 2016 onwards. Imo I
like the modelling in 2016, it’s in a very good state. The
improvement in the pivot editing alone was worth it.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On
Behalf Of *Sebastien Sterling
*Sent:* 24 January 2016 09:06
        *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
*Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

Hey Jordi Bear ! what is skinning like in Houdini ? and
have you tried Fabric for rigging ?

On 24 January 2016 at 08:56, Jordi Bares
mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It may not be the only solution, it is really up to you.

On 23 January 2016 at 18:54, F Sanchez
mailto:youngupstar...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will
ever take the place of Maya? (Besides a future
resurrection of Softimage which is not going to
happen. ) Sure I can use XSI when working on my
own but if you need to work on site it will now
have to be Maya from now on. :(

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Sebastien
Sterling mailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com>> wrote:

"I'm still holding out that fabric engine will
become a solution for rigging"

Here, here man !

"I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya
using fabric to do all the heavy work. I can
paint weights and build a rig in Maya using
fabric to do all the heavy work. "

so you can build a Rig in fabric, as a
generalist ?

can you paint weights in it as well ?

I too hope Fabric blossoms into the next era
of DCC's

On 23 January 2016 at 00:48, Michael Amasio
mailto:michael.ama...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I'm still holding out that fabric engine
will become a solution for rigging.  It's
not all that magical for something complex
in Maya.  Which as I'm sure several of you
have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem.
I can paint weights and build a rig in
Maya using fabric to do all the heavy work.
But when it approaches the quality I
require, fabric is providing all the
computational speed I need , BUT all that
speed is lost as it converts data back and
forth between data Maya can use and KL. I
actually get faster results out of the new
Maya GPU accelerated.
...but faster results out of XSI.  Good
old XSI.
I love it when a studio has like one
license for XSI.   I always snatch it up
and never turn my box off.
I've made a career off of lurking in the
background making stuff like 5 times
faster in XSI.

I know it's childish to enjoy, but I still
enjoy a good rant about the pain of
rigging in Maya.

On Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM, "Eugene Flormata"
mailto:eug...@flormata.com>> wrote:

Yah, not sure why there's no
improvement in the processflow for
rigging in that much time, almost in
any program i see, so many
advancements in modeling. but nothing
for rigging.
no zbrush of rigging so to speak.

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Stefan Kubicek]

;>>>it’s not without its eccentricities. If you’re gonna keep on 
comparing to Soft though, then you’re in for constant >>>>disappointment. But holey moly don’t go near 
Max for rigging, imho. J


As Adam says, there’s been a lot of talk on Beta about the rigging and without breeching NDAs there is 
a desire to start >>>>addressing stuff. It seems the work on the parallel performance in 
2016 perhaps might be the start of that. Certainly that >>>>stuff has gone down well with 
people.


On the modelling front, Maya’s been going through an overhaul in recent versions. Up to 2016 there was 
a lot of overlap >>>>between what was the NEX stuff and the legacy Maya tools, but a lot of 
that got fixed in 2016 onwards. Imo I like the >>>>modelling in 2016, it’s in a very good 
state. The improvement in the pivot editing alone was worth it.



From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of >>>>Sebastien 
Sterling
Sent: 24 January 2016 09:06
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...


Hey Jordi Bear ! what is skinning like in Houdini ? and have you tried Fabric 
for rigging ?


On 24 January 2016 at 08:56, Jordi Bares  wrote:


It may not be the only solution, it is really up to you.



On 23 January 2016 at 18:54, F Sanchez  wrote:


Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will ever take the place of Maya? (Besides a future resurrection of 
Softimage which is not >>>>>>going to happen. ) Sure I can use XSI when working on my own but if 
you need to work on site it will now have to be Maya from now >>>>>>on. :(


On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Sebastien Sterling 
 wrote:


"I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for rigging"

Here, here man !
"I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the heavy work. I can paint weights 
and build a rig in Maya >>>>>>>using fabric to do all the heavy work. "

so you can build a Rig in fabric, as a generalist ?

can you paint weights in it as well ?

I too hope Fabric blossoms into the next era of DCC's


On 23 January 2016 at 00:48, Michael Amasio  wrote:


I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for rigging.  It's not all that magical for something complex in 
>>>>>>>>Maya.  Which as I'm sure several of you have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem. I can paint weights and build a rig 
in Maya using fabric to do all the heavy work. But when it approaches the quality I require, fabric is providing all the computational speed I need , 
BUT all that speed is lost as >>>>>>>>it converts data back and forth between data Maya can use and KL.   I actually get faster 
results out of the new Maya GPU >>>>>>>>accelerated.
...but faster results out of XSI.  Good old XSI.
I love it when a studio has like one license for XSI.   I always snatch it up 
and never turn my box off.
I've made a career off of lurking in the background making stuff like 5 times 
faster in XSI.
I know it's childish to enjoy, but I still enjoy a good rant about the pain of 
rigging in Maya.
On Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM, "Eugene Flormata"  wrote:


Yah, not sure why there's no improvement in the processflow for rigging in that much time, almost in any 
program i see, so >>>>>>>>>many advancements in modeling. but nothing for 
rigging.
no zbrush of rigging so to speak.

I like how there's notes and tips even when you just turn on the quaddraw. 
feels really thought out.

a lot of maya feels like different programs just stapled together in a package
vs XSI's whole package made for one user mentality.I just thought quad draw had 
that feel to it.

I've not made any rigs in maya yet, and all my XSI rigs were pretty basic
but at least while I was rigging, i wasn't punished for something i wanted to go back and change in XSI 
whenever you >>>>>>>>>learned something about your mesh you wanted to animate.
which the real benefit to the XSI over maya, it reduced the number of 
iterations in the learning process.



On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Eric Turman  wrote:


I'm glad you are liking your new modeling tools, Eugene. However I believe that it is important to make the distinction that >>>>>>>>>>it is not about the confusion in 
Maya rigging--at least not for me; I do not find Maya confusing at all. What the huge >>>>>>>>>>issue with Maya is that its limited rigging tool-set combined with 
archaic workflow make the task of rigging drudgery. >>>>>>>>>>Drudgery is the key word more than confusion. I have made many character rigs in Maya over the past 
fifteen-plus years >>>>>>>>>>and Maya still sucks at it.













--
www.johnrichardsanchez.com
















--

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Jordi Bares]

It is, only needs extra refining but I would suggest you look at it as more
than just a curiosity, it has become surprisingly usable and although it is
not perfect (certainly less painful than Maya anyway) it is something I
would love to test properly again.

On 22 January 2016 at 12:49, Ognjen Vukovic  wrote:

> I suppose at the pace sideFX are steamrolling their app, it could be a
> functional animation software given a year or two. But thats just  a guess
> from my side, maybe someone could comment on that who has a bit more
> knowledge on H.
> Then it could easily snap out the mayas position of industry leader, I
> just wish indy version would support the redshift plug in thats coming out,
> that would make it a no brainer for me personaly as to where i would pledge
> my allegiances to..
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is Fabric at a point where one can use it as a stand alone rigging and
>> skinning platform i wonder ? not much hope of getting studios to adopt,
>> specially not those that rely on sweat shops. but it would be nice to try
>> and sow some better seeds.
>>
>> Softies i love you all, sorry for venting but sometimes it really feels
>> desperate, to come back to rigging in maya a decade later and the most
>> impactful thing to be added is, delta much, tech from another dying
>> company, that everyone and there dog was able to replicate it seems.
>>
>> But no, you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The weight
>> painting is a death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death sentence,
>> the UI for scrubbing through the list of deformers makes me want to snuff
>> it, they still expect you to lock every single joint, less it start firing
>> weights randomly into other deformers. erase influence in a finger, it ends
>> up in a leg... more then just the crippled demented functionality, the feel
>> of the whole thing is off, having to reload the weighting interface every
>> time you want to translate or rotate a bone the list goes on and on,
>>
>> On 22 January 2016 at 10:23, Tom Kleinenberg  wrote:
>>
>>> Heh, sorry, what I meant was sad was the blind crowd-think. I learnt
>>> pretty quickly that that any tool can do anything (when at a Lightwave
>>> studio and they were trumpeting how Lightwave was used for bits of
>>> Ironman). Some tools are just easier than others for certain tasks and
>>> Softimage does 90% of what I do in the easiest way I've come across.
>>>
>>> And no Sandy, you never got my rigging, not even in XSI :) One day, one
>>> day...
>>>
>>> On 22 January 2016 at 10:10, Sandy Sutherland >> > wrote:
>>>
 We never got you rigging in Softimage then Tom - ;)

 S.

 On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Tom Kleinenberg 
 wrote:

> At college we were taught Max and Maya. Maya was by far the most
> popular with students. I never much cared for it, so I always asked "What
> do you like about it over Max?" I couldn't ever get a straight answer and
> was generally fobbed off with something like "Well, they used it in the
> Matrix/Lord of the Rings/etc". Made me sad.
>
> On 22 January 2016 at 09:42, Olivier Jeannel 
> wrote:
>
>> That is very true Stefan.
>> And people look at you weird just because you're not in the Maya
>> majority...
>> It's like speaking of the taste of chiken inside a kfc, nobody get's
>> a clue.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Stefan Kubicek > > wrote:
>>
>>> There are only two kinds of 3D Artists:
>>> Those who use Softimage, and those who never tried.
>>>
>>> The story of Softimage's demise is one of ignorance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But they don;t know for better so burning bed for them is as good as
>>> it gets.
>>> They have no idea what is a fluffy feeling of Softimage around you :(
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Gerbrand Nel 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I know many of us are forced by employers or situations to convert
 to maya.
 My heart goes out to you!
 But the rest of you fuckers who choose to go to maya over all the
 other options out there.
 You have made your beds, now burn in them.

>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Mirko Jankovic]

back in AD someone:
"hey users are complaining about rigging and really after looking into it
for a first time in past decade it is truly way fallen behind of any normal
workflow"

AD main guys: "wait is Maya loosing user base and money??"

first guy:
"no, sales are rising, new subscription model that will will push down
their throat will tie them and bind them even more but uses..."

AD main guys: "well who the F caress then.. F users... buy another half
done crap tool, cramp it in Maya, call it development and next rigging
step.. till the time they figure out it is another crap we will have more
subscriptions in... $$$"

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 9:23 AM, Andres Stephens 
wrote:

> Selecting bones in the viewport to weight paint. Good old trueSpace does
> this. It’s rigging is awefuly buggy, and it’s weighting also weird
> sometimes – but you can weight paint directly by selecting a bone. I
> thought this was default for all software (I’ve only really used SI and
> trueSpace, blender) – lol.
>
>
>
> Reading this thread… I didn’t realize industry standards were.. low.
>
> -Draise
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Sebastien Sterling 
> *Sent: *25 January 2016 03:04
>
> *To: *softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> *Subject: *Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>
>
>
> Yes weight painting is bullshit for precise work, however if you don't
> have much time and you need it to be quick and can afford it being dirty...
>
> It's been a while, so i don't remember, but is Soft the only package with
> a workflow to select the bone you want to weight to directly in the
> viewport? instead of scrolling endlessly through lists ? its kinda clunky
> in soft, (takes a few seconds for the selected deformer to register). but
> it works!
>
> Does nothing else have this functionality? it seems like such a no
> brainner...
>
> Maya is exceptionally guilty of the joint list scrolling, as the window is
> tiny, can not be resized (to my knowledge) and in spite of this, requires
> you to lock every bone but the 2 you are weighting,  manually ! forcing you
> to run up and down every time you need to change what you are skinning to.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 25 January 2016 at 07:03, Martin Yara  wrote:
>
> For v2014 and later I'd recommend Skin Wrangler, a pyQT+python tool that
> is pretty good for that kind of workflow. And for 2013 and previous
> versions without pyQT support, Max Skin Weight Tool, a mel script based on
> Max workflow.
>
>
>
> In games, at least here and other places I've worked, we rarely use paint
> weights because it is more common to have mistakes and uneven weights.
>
>
>
> Maya's Weight Hammer is the equivalent to Softimage's smooth weights, but
> way inferior and without any option at all. I rarely use it because it
> tends to mess up my weights smoothing it too much and using influences I
> don't want to. SI's smooth weights could work very nice selecting all
> points (ex: the whole snake model), while Maya's Hammer do some decent job
> only if you select the points where the joints intersect.
>
>
>
> If someone at Autodesk is reading, is it possible to have Softimage Smooth
> Weights to be ported to Maya?
>
>
>
> ngSkinTools smooth was nice, but I didn't get used to it's workflow. I may
> give it another try when I need to paint weights.
>
>
>
> I found another tool called as_SmoothNearest that looked good in the video
> demo, but it ended up being a combination of the Maya's default Weight
> Hammer command and grow selection. And without using the normalizing option
> with a potentially risk to have 1+ total weights per point. I fixed that
> code but, still  not quite what I wanted.
>
>
>
> I ended up writing a custom tool to use smooth paint for selected weights
> and lock all the other joints so it would only smooth based on the selected
> points deformers. Now with that, SkinWrangler and Maya's Heat Map, my
> weighting workflow is a little less painful.
>
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 11:28 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I remember skinning in max, not the best but definitely not the worst, it
> didn't have any pretences let's say, you HAD to use vertex weight selection
> assignments or "Weight Tool" (envelops are garbage), and they had a very
> practical little menu for that, with options for assigning a few default
> pre-sets, 0.1, 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1, as well as the ability to copy/past
> values.
>
> selection assignment is the slowest method, not great for fast turn
> around, but it is

RE: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Andres Stephens]

Selecting bones in the viewport to weight paint. Good old trueSpace does this. 
It’s rigging is awefuly buggy, and it’s weighting also weird sometimes – but 
you can weight paint directly by selecting a bone. I thought this was default 
for all software (I’ve only really used SI and trueSpace, blender) – lol. 

Reading this thread… I didn’t realize industry standards were.. low. 
-Draise


From: Sebastien Sterling
Sent: 25 January 2016 03:04
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

Yes weight painting is bullshit for precise work, however if you don't have 
much time and you need it to be quick and can afford it being dirty...
It's been a while, so i don't remember, but is Soft the only package with a 
workflow to select the bone you want to weight to directly in the viewport? 
instead of scrolling endlessly through lists ? its kinda clunky in soft, (takes 
a few seconds for the selected deformer to register). but it works!
Does nothing else have this functionality? it seems like such a no brainner...
Maya is exceptionally guilty of the joint list scrolling, as the window is 
tiny, can not be resized (to my knowledge) and in spite of this, requires you 
to lock every bone but the 2 you are weighting,  manually ! forcing you to run 
up and down every time you need to change what you are skinning to.


On 25 January 2016 at 07:03, Martin Yara  wrote:
For v2014 and later I'd recommend Skin Wrangler, a pyQT+python tool that is 
pretty good for that kind of workflow. And for 2013 and previous versions 
without pyQT support, Max Skin Weight Tool, a mel script based on Max workflow.

In games, at least here and other places I've worked, we rarely use paint 
weights because it is more common to have mistakes and uneven weights.

Maya's Weight Hammer is the equivalent to Softimage's smooth weights, but way 
inferior and without any option at all. I rarely use it because it tends to 
mess up my weights smoothing it too much and using influences I don't want to. 
SI's smooth weights could work very nice selecting all points (ex: the whole 
snake model), while Maya's Hammer do some decent job only if you select the 
points where the joints intersect.

If someone at Autodesk is reading, is it possible to have Softimage Smooth 
Weights to be ported to Maya?

ngSkinTools smooth was nice, but I didn't get used to it's workflow. I may give 
it another try when I need to paint weights.

I found another tool called as_SmoothNearest that looked good in the video 
demo, but it ended up being a combination of the Maya's default Weight Hammer 
command and grow selection. And without using the normalizing option with a 
potentially risk to have 1+ total weights per point. I fixed that code but, 
still  not quite what I wanted.

I ended up writing a custom tool to use smooth paint for selected weights and 
lock all the other joints so it would only smooth based on the selected points 
deformers. Now with that, SkinWrangler and Maya's Heat Map, my weighting 
workflow is a little less painful.

Martin



On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 11:28 PM, Sebastien Sterling 
 wrote:
I remember skinning in max, not the best but definitely not the worst, it 
didn't have any pretences let's say, you HAD to use vertex weight selection 
assignments or "Weight Tool" (envelops are garbage), and they had a very 
practical little menu for that, with options for assigning a few default 
pre-sets, 0.1, 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1, as well as the ability to copy/past values.
selection assignment is the slowest method, not great for fast turn around, but 
it is also the most precise method.

Softimage kind of had something similar, plus a really good smoothing 
algorithm, (is it just me or was soft's smooth weight function, the bomb ?!)

Is there anything like this for maya currently, like max's weight tool i mean ? 
and the first words better not be "In Bonus tools ... !" so help me god !

On 24 January 2016 at 13:50, Graham Bell  wrote:
Man I feel you guys’ pain. 
I haven’t rigged in Maya for a while, but the thing is if you’ve been in Maya 
land for some time, then you kinda get to know how it works and get the best 
from it. Many guys like it, because they can get quiet deep into it, but like 
anything it’s not without its eccentricities. If you’re gonna keep on comparing 
to Soft though, then you’re in for constant disappointment. But holey moly 
don’t go near Max for rigging, imho. ☺
 
As Adam says, there’s been a lot of talk on Beta about the rigging and without 
breeching NDAs there is a desire to start addressing stuff. It seems the work 
on the parallel performance in 2016 perhaps might be the start of that. 
Certainly that stuff has gone down well with people.
 
On the modelling front, Maya’s been going through an overhaul in recent 
versions. Up to 2016 there was a lot of overlap between what was the N

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Olivier Jeannel]

ment. But holey moly don’t go near Max for rigging, imho. J
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As Adam says, there’s been a lot of talk on Beta about the rigging and
>>>> without breeching NDAs there is a desire to start addressing stuff. It
>>>> seems the work on the parallel performance in 2016 perhaps might be the
>>>> start of that. Certainly that stuff has gone down well with people.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On the modelling front, Maya’s been going through an overhaul in recent
>>>> versions. Up to 2016 there was a lot of overlap between what was the NEX
>>>> stuff and the legacy Maya tools, but a lot of that got fixed in 2016
>>>> onwards. Imo I like the modelling in 2016, it’s in a very good state. The
>>>> improvement in the pivot editing alone was worth it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien
>>>> Sterling
>>>> *Sent:* 24 January 2016 09:06
>>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Jordi Bear ! what is skinning like in Houdini ? and have you tried
>>>> Fabric for rigging ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 24 January 2016 at 08:56, Jordi Bares  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It may not be the only solution, it is really up to you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 23 January 2016 at 18:54, F Sanchez 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will ever take the place
>>>> of Maya? (Besides a future resurrection of Softimage which is not going to
>>>> happen. ) Sure I can use XSI when working on my own but if you need to work
>>>> on site it will now have to be Maya from now on. :(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
>>>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
>>>> rigging"
>>>>
>>>> Here, here man !
>>>>
>>>> "I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
>>>> heavy work. I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do
>>>> all the heavy work. "
>>>>
>>>> so you can build a Rig in fabric, as a generalist ?
>>>>
>>>> can you paint weights in it as well ?
>>>>
>>>> I too hope Fabric blossoms into the next era of DCC's
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 23 January 2016 at 00:48, Michael Amasio 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
>>>> rigging.  It's not all that magical for something complex in Maya.  Which
>>>> as I'm sure several of you have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem.
>>>> I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
>>>> heavy work.
>>>> But when it approaches the quality I require, fabric is providing all
>>>> the computational speed I need , BUT all that speed is lost as it converts
>>>> data back and forth between data Maya can use and KL.   I actually get
>>>> faster results out of the new Maya GPU accelerated.
>>>> ...but faster results out of XSI.  Good old XSI.
>>>> I love it when a studio has like one license for XSI.   I always snatch
>>>> it up and never turn my box off.
>>>> I've made a career off of lurking in the background making stuff like 5
>>>> times faster in XSI.
>>>>
>>>> I know it's childish to enjoy, but I still enjoy a good rant about the
>>>> pain of rigging in Maya.
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM, "Eugene Flormata"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yah, not sure why there's no improvement in the processflow for rigging
>>>> in that much time, almost in any program i see, so many advancements in
>>>> modeling. but nothing for rigging.
>>>> no zbrush of rigging so to speak.
>>>>
>>>> I like how there's notes and tips even when you just turn on the
>>>> quaddraw. feels really thought out.
>>>>
>>>> a lot of maya feels like different programs just stapled together in a
>>>> package
>>>> vs XSI's whole package made for one user mentality.
>>>> I just thought quad draw had that feel to it.
>>>>
>>>> I've not made any rigs in maya yet, and all my XSI rigs were pretty
>>>> basic
>>>> but at least while I was rigging, i wasn't punished for something i
>>>> wanted to go back and change in XSI whenever you learned something about
>>>> your mesh you wanted to animate.
>>>> which the real benefit to the XSI over maya, it reduced the number of
>>>> iterations in the learning process.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Eric Turman 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad you are liking your new modeling tools, Eugene. However I
>>>> believe that it is important to make the distinction that it is not about
>>>> the confusion in Maya rigging--at least not for me; I do not find Maya
>>>> confusing at all. What the huge issue with Maya is that its limited rigging
>>>> tool-set combined with archaic workflow make the task of rigging drudgery.*
>>>> Drudgery* is the key word more than confusion. I have made many
>>>> character rigs in Maya over the past fifteen-plus years and Maya still
>>>> sucks at it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sebastien Sterling]

>>> versions. Up to 2016 there was a lot of overlap between what was the NEX
>>> stuff and the legacy Maya tools, but a lot of that got fixed in 2016
>>> onwards. Imo I like the modelling in 2016, it’s in a very good state. The
>>> improvement in the pivot editing alone was worth it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien
>>> Sterling
>>> *Sent:* 24 January 2016 09:06
>>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey Jordi Bear ! what is skinning like in Houdini ? and have you tried
>>> Fabric for rigging ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24 January 2016 at 08:56, Jordi Bares  wrote:
>>>
>>> It may not be the only solution, it is really up to you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 January 2016 at 18:54, F Sanchez  wrote:
>>>
>>> Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will ever take the place of
>>> Maya? (Besides a future resurrection of Softimage which is not going to
>>> happen. ) Sure I can use XSI when working on my own but if you need to work
>>> on site it will now have to be Maya from now on. :(
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
>>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
>>> rigging"
>>>
>>> Here, here man !
>>>
>>> "I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
>>> heavy work. I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do
>>> all the heavy work. "
>>>
>>> so you can build a Rig in fabric, as a generalist ?
>>>
>>> can you paint weights in it as well ?
>>>
>>> I too hope Fabric blossoms into the next era of DCC's
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 January 2016 at 00:48, Michael Amasio 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
>>> rigging.  It's not all that magical for something complex in Maya.  Which
>>> as I'm sure several of you have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem.
>>> I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
>>> heavy work.
>>> But when it approaches the quality I require, fabric is providing all
>>> the computational speed I need , BUT all that speed is lost as it converts
>>> data back and forth between data Maya can use and KL.   I actually get
>>> faster results out of the new Maya GPU accelerated.
>>> ...but faster results out of XSI.  Good old XSI.
>>> I love it when a studio has like one license for XSI.   I always snatch
>>> it up and never turn my box off.
>>> I've made a career off of lurking in the background making stuff like 5
>>> times faster in XSI.
>>>
>>> I know it's childish to enjoy, but I still enjoy a good rant about the
>>> pain of rigging in Maya.
>>>
>>> On Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM, "Eugene Flormata"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Yah, not sure why there's no improvement in the processflow for rigging
>>> in that much time, almost in any program i see, so many advancements in
>>> modeling. but nothing for rigging.
>>> no zbrush of rigging so to speak.
>>>
>>> I like how there's notes and tips even when you just turn on the
>>> quaddraw. feels really thought out.
>>>
>>> a lot of maya feels like different programs just stapled together in a
>>> package
>>> vs XSI's whole package made for one user mentality.
>>> I just thought quad draw had that feel to it.
>>>
>>> I've not made any rigs in maya yet, and all my XSI rigs were pretty basic
>>> but at least while I was rigging, i wasn't punished for something i
>>> wanted to go back and change in XSI whenever you learned something about
>>> your mesh you wanted to animate.
>>> which the real benefit to the XSI over maya, it reduced the number of
>>> iterations in the learning process.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Eric Turman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm glad you are liking your new modeling tools, Eugene. However I
>>> believe that it is important to make the distinction that it is not about
>>> the confusion in Maya rigging--at least not for me; I do not find Maya
>>> confusing at all. What the huge issue with Maya is that its limited rigging
>>> tool-set combined with archaic workflow make the task of rigging drudgery.*
>>> Drudgery* is the key word more than confusion. I have made many
>>> character rigs in Maya over the past fifteen-plus years and Maya still
>>> sucks at it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Martin Yara]

For v2014 and later I'd recommend Skin Wrangler, a pyQT+python tool that is
pretty good for that kind of workflow. And for 2013 and previous versions
without pyQT support, Max Skin Weight Tool, a mel script based on Max
workflow.

In games, at least here and other places I've worked, we rarely use paint
weights because it is more common to have mistakes and uneven weights.

Maya's Weight Hammer is the equivalent to Softimage's smooth weights, but
way inferior and without any option at all. I rarely use it because it
tends to mess up my weights smoothing it too much and using influences I
don't want to. SI's smooth weights could work very nice selecting all
points (ex: the whole snake model), while Maya's Hammer do some decent job
only if you select the points where the joints intersect.

If someone at Autodesk is reading, is it possible to have Softimage Smooth
Weights to be ported to Maya?

ngSkinTools smooth was nice, but I didn't get used to it's workflow. I may
give it another try when I need to paint weights.

I found another tool called as_SmoothNearest that looked good in the video
demo, but it ended up being a combination of the Maya's default Weight
Hammer command and grow selection. And without using the normalizing option
with a potentially risk to have 1+ total weights per point. I fixed that
code but, still  not quite what I wanted.

I ended up writing a custom tool to use smooth paint for selected weights
and lock all the other joints so it would only smooth based on the selected
points deformers. Now with that, SkinWrangler and Maya's Heat Map, my
weighting workflow is a little less painful.

Martin



On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 11:28 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I remember skinning in max, not the best but definitely not the worst, it
> didn't have any pretences let's say, you HAD to use vertex weight selection
> assignments or "Weight Tool" (envelops are garbage), and they had a very
> practical little menu for that, with options for assigning a few default
> pre-sets, 0.1, 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1, as well as the ability to copy/past
> values.
> selection assignment is the slowest method, not great for fast turn
> around, but it is also the most precise method.
>
> Softimage kind of had something similar, plus a really good smoothing
> algorithm, (is it just me or was soft's smooth weight function, the bomb ?!)
>
>
> Is there anything like this for maya currently, like max's weight tool i
> mean ? and the first words better not be "In Bonus tools ... !" so help me
> god !
>
>
> On 24 January 2016 at 13:50, Graham Bell  wrote:
>
>> Man I feel you guys’ pain.
>>
>> I haven’t rigged in Maya for a while, but the thing is if you’ve been in
>> Maya land for some time, then you kinda get to know how it works and get
>> the best from it. Many guys like it, because they can get quiet deep into
>> it, but like anything it’s not without its eccentricities. If you’re gonna
>> keep on comparing to Soft though, then you’re in for constant
>> disappointment. But holey moly don’t go near Max for rigging, imho. J
>>
>>
>>
>> As Adam says, there’s been a lot of talk on Beta about the rigging and
>> without breeching NDAs there is a desire to start addressing stuff. It
>> seems the work on the parallel performance in 2016 perhaps might be the
>> start of that. Certainly that stuff has gone down well with people.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the modelling front, Maya’s been going through an overhaul in recent
>> versions. Up to 2016 there was a lot of overlap between what was the NEX
>> stuff and the legacy Maya tools, but a lot of that got fixed in 2016
>> onwards. Imo I like the modelling in 2016, it’s in a very good state. The
>> improvement in the pivot editing alone was worth it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien
>> Sterling
>> *Sent:* 24 January 2016 09:06
>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey Jordi Bear ! what is skinning like in Houdini ? and have you tried
>> Fabric for rigging ?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24 January 2016 at 08:56, Jordi Bares  wrote:
>>
>> It may not be the only solution, it is really up to you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23 January 2016 at 18:54, F Sanchez  wrote:
>>
>> Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will ever take the place of
>> Maya? (Besides a future resurrection of Softimage which is not going to
>>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sebastien Sterling]

I think the interface, might need a remelt, it is clearly not intended for
the diversity of tasks you would get in a regulate DCC.

This said I'm not sure I want to see a hap hazard dilution of Houdini, into
a patchum'up DCC. Don't get me wrong, i expect them to get there
eventually, after all where does one go when you have solves VFX :P?

What i mean is, i hope they do it well if they do it at all, regardless of
the time it might take. as it was never a complete solution to begin with,
but what it does, people seem happy to report it does well.

On 24 January 2016 at 21:11, Mirko Jankovic 
wrote:

> How are they looking on character animation side right now?
> one of the problems with H is that they still have a bit steep learning
> curve which it self wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't due to lack of
> free time to spend on that learning :(
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Juhani Karlsson <
> juhani.karls...@talvi.com> wrote:
>
>> Sidefx is getting a lot of momentum these days. I think Maya will get
>> serious competitor if and when sidefx starts to push the character side
>> more.
>> On 24 Jan 2016 21:13, "Adam Sale"  wrote:
>>
>>> The one thing to note i have found with ngskin is it only plays nicely
>>> with . ma files.
>>>
>>> I fear an .mb getting touched by it.
>>>
>>> I agree with Graham. When we compare what we had in soft, we are always
>>> bound for disappointment. That's not to say we shouldn't be trying to push
>>> our agenda every possible chance.
>>>
>>> I haven't rigged in soft since the day it was announced eol. My students
>>> literally stopped paying attention in an instant.
>>>
>>> I just resigned myself to pushing into Maya fully. Too painful
>>> otherwise.
>>> On Jan 24, 2016 8:38 AM, "Eric Turman"  wrote:
>>>
 I sent this off a bit too quickly:

1. point weight in Softimage
2. export back to May via. .FBX
3. then make a .mel script to connect the deformers to you Maya rig.


 On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Eric Turman 
 wrote:

> I tried using that plugin on a freelance project with many characters
> that I had to rig and point weight in Maya. While it was much better than
> Maya's default, and I know that it is much better than what Maya users are
> used to, it still was horribly klunky and unpleasant to work with. I don't
> think this is entirely the developer's fault though; I blame the designers
> of Maya for thier corrupted workflow.
>
> So, when I tried it last year I found it only slightly less awkward to
> work with but I quickly ran into many sticky points with it. So, when I
> asked the ngSkin tools community how to achieve some of the sublime
> workflow that Soft natively, the users responded to me with "why would you
> want to do that" and the like. So, no, I can not agree with you and
> recommend that plugin Graham.
>
> Instead just use Softimage to point weight and  write a mel
> script  to  hook the deformers back up the the control
> structure...that was what I ended up doing and I was much much much 
> happier
> for it.
>
>
>
>
 --




 -=T=-

>>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Mirko Jankovic]

How are they looking on character animation side right now?
one of the problems with H is that they still have a bit steep learning
curve which it self wouldn't be a big problem if it wasn't due to lack of
free time to spend on that learning :(

On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Juhani Karlsson 
wrote:

> Sidefx is getting a lot of momentum these days. I think Maya will get
> serious competitor if and when sidefx starts to push the character side
> more.
> On 24 Jan 2016 21:13, "Adam Sale"  wrote:
>
>> The one thing to note i have found with ngskin is it only plays nicely
>> with . ma files.
>>
>> I fear an .mb getting touched by it.
>>
>> I agree with Graham. When we compare what we had in soft, we are always
>> bound for disappointment. That's not to say we shouldn't be trying to push
>> our agenda every possible chance.
>>
>> I haven't rigged in soft since the day it was announced eol. My students
>> literally stopped paying attention in an instant.
>>
>> I just resigned myself to pushing into Maya fully. Too painful otherwise.
>> On Jan 24, 2016 8:38 AM, "Eric Turman"  wrote:
>>
>>> I sent this off a bit too quickly:
>>>
>>>1. point weight in Softimage
>>>2. export back to May via. .FBX
>>>3. then make a .mel script to connect the deformers to you Maya rig.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Eric Turman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I tried using that plugin on a freelance project with many characters
 that I had to rig and point weight in Maya. While it was much better than
 Maya's default, and I know that it is much better than what Maya users are
 used to, it still was horribly klunky and unpleasant to work with. I don't
 think this is entirely the developer's fault though; I blame the designers
 of Maya for thier corrupted workflow.

 So, when I tried it last year I found it only slightly less awkward to
 work with but I quickly ran into many sticky points with it. So, when I
 asked the ngSkin tools community how to achieve some of the sublime
 workflow that Soft natively, the users responded to me with "why would you
 want to do that" and the like. So, no, I can not agree with you and
 recommend that plugin Graham.

 Instead just use Softimage to point weight and  write a mel script
  to  hook the deformers back up the the control structure...that was
 what I ended up doing and I was much much much happier for it.




>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -=T=-
>>>
>>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Juhani Karlsson]

Sidefx is getting a lot of momentum these days. I think Maya will get
serious competitor if and when sidefx starts to push the character side
more.
On 24 Jan 2016 21:13, "Adam Sale"  wrote:

> The one thing to note i have found with ngskin is it only plays nicely
> with . ma files.
>
> I fear an .mb getting touched by it.
>
> I agree with Graham. When we compare what we had in soft, we are always
> bound for disappointment. That's not to say we shouldn't be trying to push
> our agenda every possible chance.
>
> I haven't rigged in soft since the day it was announced eol. My students
> literally stopped paying attention in an instant.
>
> I just resigned myself to pushing into Maya fully. Too painful otherwise.
> On Jan 24, 2016 8:38 AM, "Eric Turman"  wrote:
>
>> I sent this off a bit too quickly:
>>
>>1. point weight in Softimage
>>2. export back to May via. .FBX
>>3. then make a .mel script to connect the deformers to you Maya rig.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Eric Turman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I tried using that plugin on a freelance project with many characters
>>> that I had to rig and point weight in Maya. While it was much better than
>>> Maya's default, and I know that it is much better than what Maya users are
>>> used to, it still was horribly klunky and unpleasant to work with. I don't
>>> think this is entirely the developer's fault though; I blame the designers
>>> of Maya for thier corrupted workflow.
>>>
>>> So, when I tried it last year I found it only slightly less awkward to
>>> work with but I quickly ran into many sticky points with it. So, when I
>>> asked the ngSkin tools community how to achieve some of the sublime
>>> workflow that Soft natively, the users responded to me with "why would you
>>> want to do that" and the like. So, no, I can not agree with you and
>>> recommend that plugin Graham.
>>>
>>> Instead just use Softimage to point weight and  write a mel script
>>>  to  hook the deformers back up the the control structure...that was
>>> what I ended up doing and I was much much much happier for it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -=T=-
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Adam Sale]

The one thing to note i have found with ngskin is it only plays nicely with
. ma files.

I fear an .mb getting touched by it.

I agree with Graham. When we compare what we had in soft, we are always
bound for disappointment. That's not to say we shouldn't be trying to push
our agenda every possible chance.

I haven't rigged in soft since the day it was announced eol. My students
literally stopped paying attention in an instant.

I just resigned myself to pushing into Maya fully. Too painful otherwise.
On Jan 24, 2016 8:38 AM, "Eric Turman"  wrote:

> I sent this off a bit too quickly:
>
>1. point weight in Softimage
>2. export back to May via. .FBX
>3. then make a .mel script to connect the deformers to you Maya rig.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Eric Turman 
> wrote:
>
>> I tried using that plugin on a freelance project with many characters
>> that I had to rig and point weight in Maya. While it was much better than
>> Maya's default, and I know that it is much better than what Maya users are
>> used to, it still was horribly klunky and unpleasant to work with. I don't
>> think this is entirely the developer's fault though; I blame the designers
>> of Maya for thier corrupted workflow.
>>
>> So, when I tried it last year I found it only slightly less awkward to
>> work with but I quickly ran into many sticky points with it. So, when I
>> asked the ngSkin tools community how to achieve some of the sublime
>> workflow that Soft natively, the users responded to me with "why would you
>> want to do that" and the like. So, no, I can not agree with you and
>> recommend that plugin Graham.
>>
>> Instead just use Softimage to point weight and  write a mel script
>>  to  hook the deformers back up the the control structure...that was
>> what I ended up doing and I was much much much happier for it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
>
>
>
>
> -=T=-
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Eric Turman]

I sent this off a bit too quickly:

   1. point weight in Softimage
   2. export back to May via. .FBX
   3. then make a .mel script to connect the deformers to you Maya rig.


On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Eric Turman  wrote:

> I tried using that plugin on a freelance project with many characters that
> I had to rig and point weight in Maya. While it was much better than Maya's
> default, and I know that it is much better than what Maya users are used
> to, it still was horribly klunky and unpleasant to work with. I don't think
> this is entirely the developer's fault though; I blame the designers of
> Maya for thier corrupted workflow.
>
> So, when I tried it last year I found it only slightly less awkward to
> work with but I quickly ran into many sticky points with it. So, when I
> asked the ngSkin tools community how to achieve some of the sublime
> workflow that Soft natively, the users responded to me with "why would you
> want to do that" and the like. So, no, I can not agree with you and
> recommend that plugin Graham.
>
> Instead just use Softimage to point weight and  write a mel script
>  to  hook the deformers back up the the control structure...that was
> what I ended up doing and I was much much much happier for it.
>
>
>
>
-- 




-=T=-

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Eric Turman]

I tried using that plugin on a freelance project with many characters that
I had to rig and point weight in Maya. While it was much better than Maya's
default, and I know that it is much better than what Maya users are used
to, it still was horribly klunky and unpleasant to work with. I don't think
this is entirely the developer's fault though; I blame the designers of
Maya for thier corrupted workflow.

So, when I tried it last year I found it only slightly less awkward to work
with but I quickly ran into many sticky points with it. So, when I asked
the ngSkin tools community how to achieve some of the sublime workflow that
Soft natively, the users responded to me with "why would you want to do
that" and the like. So, no, I can not agree with you and recommend that
plugin Graham.

Instead just use Softimage to point weight and  write a mel script
 to  hook the deformers back up the the control structure...that was
what I ended up doing and I was much much much happier for it.





On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Graham Bell  wrote:

> I’d take a look at the ngSkinTools plugin, a lot of people go to and use
> that instead of Maya’s default tools.
>
>
>
> http://www.ngskintools.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien Sterling
> *Sent:* 24 January 2016 14:29
>
> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>
>
>
> I remember skinning in max, not the best but definitely not the worst, it
> didn't have any pretences let's say, you HAD to use vertex weight selection
> assignments or "Weight Tool" (envelops are garbage), and they had a very
> practical little menu for that, with options for assigning a few default
> pre-sets, 0.1, 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1, as well as the ability to copy/past
> values.
>
> selection assignment is the slowest method, not great for fast turn
> around, but it is also the most precise method.
>
>
>
> Softimage kind of had something similar, plus a really good smoothing
> algorithm, (is it just me or was soft's smooth weight function, the bomb ?!)
>
> Is there anything like this for maya currently, like max's weight tool i
> mean ? and the first words better not be "In Bonus tools ... !" so help me
> god !
>
>
>
> On 24 January 2016 at 13:50, Graham Bell  wrote:
>
> Man I feel you guys’ pain.
>
> I haven’t rigged in Maya for a while, but the thing is if you’ve been in
> Maya land for some time, then you kinda get to know how it works and get
> the best from it. Many guys like it, because they can get quiet deep into
> it, but like anything it’s not without its eccentricities. If you’re gonna
> keep on comparing to Soft though, then you’re in for constant
> disappointment. But holey moly don’t go near Max for rigging, imho. J
>
>
>
> As Adam says, there’s been a lot of talk on Beta about the rigging and
> without breeching NDAs there is a desire to start addressing stuff. It
> seems the work on the parallel performance in 2016 perhaps might be the
> start of that. Certainly that stuff has gone down well with people.
>
>
>
> On the modelling front, Maya’s been going through an overhaul in recent
> versions. Up to 2016 there was a lot of overlap between what was the NEX
> stuff and the legacy Maya tools, but a lot of that got fixed in 2016
> onwards. Imo I like the modelling in 2016, it’s in a very good state. The
> improvement in the pivot editing alone was worth it.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien Sterling
> *Sent:* 24 January 2016 09:06
> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>
>
>
> Hey Jordi Bear ! what is skinning like in Houdini ? and have you tried
> Fabric for rigging ?
>
>
>
> On 24 January 2016 at 08:56, Jordi Bares  wrote:
>
> It may not be the only solution, it is really up to you.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 23 January 2016 at 18:54, F Sanchez  wrote:
>
> Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will ever take the place of
> Maya? (Besides a future resurrection of Softimage which is not going to
> happen. ) Sure I can use XSI when working on my own but if you need to work
> on site it will now have to be Maya from now on. :(
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
> rigging"
>
> Here, here man !
>
> "I can paint weights a

RE: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Graham Bell]

I’d take a look at the ngSkinTools plugin, a lot of people go to and use that 
instead of Maya’s default tools.

 

http://www.ngskintools.com/

 

 

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sebastien Sterling
Sent: 24 January 2016 14:29
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

 

I remember skinning in max, not the best but definitely not the worst, it 
didn't have any pretences let's say, you HAD to use vertex weight selection 
assignments or "Weight Tool" (envelops are garbage), and they had a very 
practical little menu for that, with options for assigning a few default 
pre-sets, 0.1, 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1, as well as the ability to copy/past values.

selection assignment is the slowest method, not great for fast turn around, but 
it is also the most precise method.

 

Softimage kind of had something similar, plus a really good smoothing 
algorithm, (is it just me or was soft's smooth weight function, the bomb ?!)



Is there anything like this for maya currently, like max's weight tool i mean ? 
and the first words better not be "In Bonus tools ... !" so help me god !

 

On 24 January 2016 at 13:50, Graham Bell mailto:bell...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Man I feel you guys’ pain. 

I haven’t rigged in Maya for a while, but the thing is if you’ve been in Maya 
land for some time, then you kinda get to know how it works and get the best 
from it. Many guys like it, because they can get quiet deep into it, but like 
anything it’s not without its eccentricities. If you’re gonna keep on comparing 
to Soft though, then you’re in for constant disappointment. But holey moly 
don’t go near Max for rigging, imho. :)

 

As Adam says, there’s been a lot of talk on Beta about the rigging and without 
breeching NDAs there is a desire to start addressing stuff. It seems the work 
on the parallel performance in 2016 perhaps might be the start of that. 
Certainly that stuff has gone down well with people.

 

On the modelling front, Maya’s been going through an overhaul in recent 
versions. Up to 2016 there was a lot of overlap between what was the NEX stuff 
and the legacy Maya tools, but a lot of that got fixed in 2016 onwards. Imo I 
like the modelling in 2016, it’s in a very good state. The improvement in the 
pivot editing alone was worth it.

 

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>  
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> ] On Behalf Of Sebastien 
Sterling
Sent: 24 January 2016 09:06
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> 
Subject: Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

 

Hey Jordi Bear ! what is skinning like in Houdini ? and have you tried Fabric 
for rigging ?

 

On 24 January 2016 at 08:56, Jordi Bares mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com> > wrote:

It may not be the only solution, it is really up to you.

 

 

On 23 January 2016 at 18:54, F Sanchez mailto:youngupstar...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will ever take the place of Maya? 
(Besides a future resurrection of Softimage which is not going to happen. ) 
Sure I can use XSI when working on my own but if you need to work on site it 
will now have to be Maya from now on. :(

 

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Sebastien Sterling 
mailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> > wrote:

"I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for rigging"

Here, here man ! 

"I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the heavy 
work. I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the 
heavy work. "

so you can build a Rig in fabric, as a generalist ?

can you paint weights in it as well ?

I too hope Fabric blossoms into the next era of DCC's

 

On 23 January 2016 at 00:48, Michael Amasio mailto:michael.ama...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for rigging.  
It's not all that magical for something complex in Maya.  Which as I'm sure 
several of you have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem.  
I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the heavy 
work.  
But when it approaches the quality I require, fabric is providing all the 
computational speed I need , BUT all that speed is lost as it converts data 
back and forth between data Maya can use and KL.   I actually get faster 
results out of the new Maya GPU accelerated.
...but faster results out of XSI.  Good old XSI.
I love it when a studio has like one license for XSI.   I always snatch it up 
and never turn my box off.
I've made a career off of lurking in the background making stuff like 5 times 
faster in XSI. 

I know it's childish to e

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sebastien Sterling]

I remember skinning in max, not the best but definitely not the worst, it
didn't have any pretences let's say, you HAD to use vertex weight selection
assignments or "Weight Tool" (envelops are garbage), and they had a very
practical little menu for that, with options for assigning a few default
pre-sets, 0.1, 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1, as well as the ability to copy/past
values.
selection assignment is the slowest method, not great for fast turn around,
but it is also the most precise method.

Softimage kind of had something similar, plus a really good smoothing
algorithm, (is it just me or was soft's smooth weight function, the bomb ?!)


Is there anything like this for maya currently, like max's weight tool i
mean ? and the first words better not be "In Bonus tools ... !" so help me
god !


On 24 January 2016 at 13:50, Graham Bell  wrote:

> Man I feel you guys’ pain.
>
> I haven’t rigged in Maya for a while, but the thing is if you’ve been in
> Maya land for some time, then you kinda get to know how it works and get
> the best from it. Many guys like it, because they can get quiet deep into
> it, but like anything it’s not without its eccentricities. If you’re gonna
> keep on comparing to Soft though, then you’re in for constant
> disappointment. But holey moly don’t go near Max for rigging, imho. J
>
>
>
> As Adam says, there’s been a lot of talk on Beta about the rigging and
> without breeching NDAs there is a desire to start addressing stuff. It
> seems the work on the parallel performance in 2016 perhaps might be the
> start of that. Certainly that stuff has gone down well with people.
>
>
>
> On the modelling front, Maya’s been going through an overhaul in recent
> versions. Up to 2016 there was a lot of overlap between what was the NEX
> stuff and the legacy Maya tools, but a lot of that got fixed in 2016
> onwards. Imo I like the modelling in 2016, it’s in a very good state. The
> improvement in the pivot editing alone was worth it.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Sebastien Sterling
> *Sent:* 24 January 2016 09:06
> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> *Subject:* Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...
>
>
>
> Hey Jordi Bear ! what is skinning like in Houdini ? and have you tried
> Fabric for rigging ?
>
>
>
> On 24 January 2016 at 08:56, Jordi Bares  wrote:
>
> It may not be the only solution, it is really up to you.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 23 January 2016 at 18:54, F Sanchez  wrote:
>
> Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will ever take the place of
> Maya? (Besides a future resurrection of Softimage which is not going to
> happen. ) Sure I can use XSI when working on my own but if you need to work
> on site it will now have to be Maya from now on. :(
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
> rigging"
>
> Here, here man !
>
> "I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
> heavy work. I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do
> all the heavy work. "
>
> so you can build a Rig in fabric, as a generalist ?
>
> can you paint weights in it as well ?
>
> I too hope Fabric blossoms into the next era of DCC's
>
>
>
> On 23 January 2016 at 00:48, Michael Amasio 
> wrote:
>
> I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
> rigging.  It's not all that magical for something complex in Maya.  Which
> as I'm sure several of you have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem.
> I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
> heavy work.
> But when it approaches the quality I require, fabric is providing all the
> computational speed I need , BUT all that speed is lost as it converts data
> back and forth between data Maya can use and KL.   I actually get faster
> results out of the new Maya GPU accelerated.
> ...but faster results out of XSI.  Good old XSI.
> I love it when a studio has like one license for XSI.   I always snatch it
> up and never turn my box off.
> I've made a career off of lurking in the background making stuff like 5
> times faster in XSI.
>
> I know it's childish to enjoy, but I still enjoy a good rant about the
> pain of rigging in Maya.
>
> On Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM, "Eugene Flormata"  wrote:
>
> Yah, not sure why there's no improvement in the processflow for rigging in
> that much time, almost in any program i see, so many advancements in
> modeling. but 

RE: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Graham Bell]

Man I feel you guys’ pain. 

I haven’t rigged in Maya for a while, but the thing is if you’ve been in Maya 
land for some time, then you kinda get to know how it works and get the best 
from it. Many guys like it, because they can get quiet deep into it, but like 
anything it’s not without its eccentricities. If you’re gonna keep on comparing 
to Soft though, then you’re in for constant disappointment. But holey moly 
don’t go near Max for rigging, imho. :)

 

As Adam says, there’s been a lot of talk on Beta about the rigging and without 
breeching NDAs there is a desire to start addressing stuff. It seems the work 
on the parallel performance in 2016 perhaps might be the start of that. 
Certainly that stuff has gone down well with people.

 

On the modelling front, Maya’s been going through an overhaul in recent 
versions. Up to 2016 there was a lot of overlap between what was the NEX stuff 
and the legacy Maya tools, but a lot of that got fixed in 2016 onwards. Imo I 
like the modelling in 2016, it’s in a very good state. The improvement in the 
pivot editing alone was worth it.

 

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sebastien Sterling
Sent: 24 January 2016 09:06
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

 

Hey Jordi Bear ! what is skinning like in Houdini ? and have you tried Fabric 
for rigging ?

 

On 24 January 2016 at 08:56, Jordi Bares mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com> > wrote:

It may not be the only solution, it is really up to you.

 

 

On 23 January 2016 at 18:54, F Sanchez mailto:youngupstar...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will ever take the place of Maya? 
(Besides a future resurrection of Softimage which is not going to happen. ) 
Sure I can use XSI when working on my own but if you need to work on site it 
will now have to be Maya from now on. :(

 

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Sebastien Sterling 
mailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> > wrote:

"I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for rigging"

Here, here man ! 

"I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the heavy 
work. I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the 
heavy work. "

so you can build a Rig in fabric, as a generalist ?

can you paint weights in it as well ?

I too hope Fabric blossoms into the next era of DCC's

 

On 23 January 2016 at 00:48, Michael Amasio mailto:michael.ama...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for rigging.  
It's not all that magical for something complex in Maya.  Which as I'm sure 
several of you have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem.  
I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the heavy 
work.  
But when it approaches the quality I require, fabric is providing all the 
computational speed I need , BUT all that speed is lost as it converts data 
back and forth between data Maya can use and KL.   I actually get faster 
results out of the new Maya GPU accelerated.
...but faster results out of XSI.  Good old XSI.
I love it when a studio has like one license for XSI.   I always snatch it up 
and never turn my box off.
I've made a career off of lurking in the background making stuff like 5 times 
faster in XSI. 

I know it's childish to enjoy, but I still enjoy a good rant about the pain of 
rigging in Maya. 

On Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM, "Eugene Flormata" mailto:eug...@flormata.com> > wrote:

Yah, not sure why there's no improvement in the processflow for rigging in that 
much time, almost in any program i see, so many advancements in modeling. but 
nothing for rigging.
no zbrush of rigging so to speak.

I like how there's notes and tips even when you just turn on the quaddraw. 
feels really thought out.

a lot of maya feels like different programs just stapled together in a package
vs XSI's whole package made for one user mentality. 
I just thought quad draw had that feel to it.

I've not made any rigs in maya yet, and all my XSI rigs were pretty basic
but at least while I was rigging, i wasn't punished for something i wanted to 
go back and change in XSI whenever you learned something about your mesh you 
wanted to animate.
which the real benefit to the XSI over maya, it reduced the number of 
iterations in the learning process.



 

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Eric Turman mailto:i.anima...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I'm glad you are liking your new modeling tools, Eugene. However I believe that 
it is important to make the distinction that it is not about the confusion in 
Maya rigging--at least not for me; I do not find Maya confusing at all. What 
the huge issue with Maya is that its limited rigging tool-set combined with 
archaic workflow make the task of r

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sebastien Sterling]

Hey Jordi Bear ! what is skinning like in Houdini ? and have you tried
Fabric for rigging ?

On 24 January 2016 at 08:56, Jordi Bares  wrote:

> It may not be the only solution, it is really up to you.
>
>
> On 23 January 2016 at 18:54, F Sanchez  wrote:
>
>> Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will ever take the place of
>> Maya? (Besides a future resurrection of Softimage which is not going to
>> happen. ) Sure I can use XSI when working on my own but if you need to work
>> on site it will now have to be Maya from now on. :(
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
>>> rigging"
>>>
>>> Here, here man !
>>>
>>> "I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
>>> heavy work. I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do
>>> all the heavy work. "
>>>
>>> so you can build a Rig in fabric, as a generalist ?
>>>
>>> can you paint weights in it as well ?
>>>
>>> I too hope Fabric blossoms into the next era of DCC's
>>>
>>> On 23 January 2016 at 00:48, Michael Amasio 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
 rigging.  It's not all that magical for something complex in Maya.  Which
 as I'm sure several of you have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem.
 I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
 heavy work.
 But when it approaches the quality I require, fabric is providing all
 the computational speed I need , BUT all that speed is lost as it converts
 data back and forth between data Maya can use and KL.   I actually get
 faster results out of the new Maya GPU accelerated.
 ...but faster results out of XSI.  Good old XSI.
 I love it when a studio has like one license for XSI.   I always snatch
 it up and never turn my box off.
 I've made a career off of lurking in the background making stuff like 5
 times faster in XSI.

 I know it's childish to enjoy, but I still enjoy a good rant about the
 pain of rigging in Maya.
 On Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM, "Eugene Flormata"  wrote:

> Yah, not sure why there's no improvement in the processflow for
> rigging in that much time, almost in any program i see, so many
> advancements in modeling. but nothing for rigging.
> no zbrush of rigging so to speak.
>
> I like how there's notes and tips even when you just turn on the
> quaddraw. feels really thought out.
>
> a lot of maya feels like different programs just stapled together in a
> package
> vs XSI's whole package made for one user mentality.
> I just thought quad draw had that feel to it.
>
> I've not made any rigs in maya yet, and all my XSI rigs were pretty
> basic
> but at least while I was rigging, i wasn't punished for something i
> wanted to go back and change in XSI whenever you learned something about
> your mesh you wanted to animate.
> which the real benefit to the XSI over maya, it reduced the number of
> iterations in the learning process.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Eric Turman 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm glad you are liking your new modeling tools, Eugene. However I
>> believe that it is important to make the distinction that it is not about
>> the confusion in Maya rigging--at least not for me; I do not find Maya
>> confusing at all. What the huge issue with Maya is that its limited 
>> rigging
>> tool-set combined with archaic workflow make the task of rigging 
>> drudgery.*
>> Drudgery* is the key word more than confusion. I have made many
>> character rigs in Maya over the past fifteen-plus years and Maya still
>> sucks at it.
>>
>>
>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>>
>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Jordi Bares]

It may not be the only solution, it is really up to you.

On 23 January 2016 at 18:54, F Sanchez  wrote:

> Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will ever take the place of
> Maya? (Besides a future resurrection of Softimage which is not going to
> happen. ) Sure I can use XSI when working on my own but if you need to work
> on site it will now have to be Maya from now on. :(
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
>> rigging"
>>
>> Here, here man !
>>
>> "I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
>> heavy work. I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do
>> all the heavy work. "
>>
>> so you can build a Rig in fabric, as a generalist ?
>>
>> can you paint weights in it as well ?
>>
>> I too hope Fabric blossoms into the next era of DCC's
>>
>> On 23 January 2016 at 00:48, Michael Amasio 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
>>> rigging.  It's not all that magical for something complex in Maya.  Which
>>> as I'm sure several of you have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem.
>>> I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
>>> heavy work.
>>> But when it approaches the quality I require, fabric is providing all
>>> the computational speed I need , BUT all that speed is lost as it converts
>>> data back and forth between data Maya can use and KL.   I actually get
>>> faster results out of the new Maya GPU accelerated.
>>> ...but faster results out of XSI.  Good old XSI.
>>> I love it when a studio has like one license for XSI.   I always snatch
>>> it up and never turn my box off.
>>> I've made a career off of lurking in the background making stuff like 5
>>> times faster in XSI.
>>>
>>> I know it's childish to enjoy, but I still enjoy a good rant about the
>>> pain of rigging in Maya.
>>> On Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM, "Eugene Flormata"  wrote:
>>>
 Yah, not sure why there's no improvement in the processflow for rigging
 in that much time, almost in any program i see, so many advancements in
 modeling. but nothing for rigging.
 no zbrush of rigging so to speak.

 I like how there's notes and tips even when you just turn on the
 quaddraw. feels really thought out.

 a lot of maya feels like different programs just stapled together in a
 package
 vs XSI's whole package made for one user mentality.
 I just thought quad draw had that feel to it.

 I've not made any rigs in maya yet, and all my XSI rigs were pretty
 basic
 but at least while I was rigging, i wasn't punished for something i
 wanted to go back and change in XSI whenever you learned something about
 your mesh you wanted to animate.
 which the real benefit to the XSI over maya, it reduced the number of
 iterations in the learning process.



 On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Eric Turman 
 wrote:

> I'm glad you are liking your new modeling tools, Eugene. However I
> believe that it is important to make the distinction that it is not about
> the confusion in Maya rigging--at least not for me; I do not find Maya
> confusing at all. What the huge issue with Maya is that its limited 
> rigging
> tool-set combined with archaic workflow make the task of rigging 
> drudgery.*
> Drudgery* is the key word more than confusion. I have made many
> character rigs in Maya over the past fifteen-plus years and Maya still
> sucks at it.
>
>

>>
>
>
> --
> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[F Sanchez]

Its 2016 already. Is there no other app that will ever take the place of
Maya? (Besides a future resurrection of Softimage which is not going to
happen. ) Sure I can use XSI when working on my own but if you need to work
on site it will now have to be Maya from now on. :(

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
> rigging"
>
> Here, here man !
>
> "I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
> heavy work. I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do
> all the heavy work. "
>
> so you can build a Rig in fabric, as a generalist ?
>
> can you paint weights in it as well ?
>
> I too hope Fabric blossoms into the next era of DCC's
>
> On 23 January 2016 at 00:48, Michael Amasio 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
>> rigging.  It's not all that magical for something complex in Maya.  Which
>> as I'm sure several of you have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem.
>> I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
>> heavy work.
>> But when it approaches the quality I require, fabric is providing all the
>> computational speed I need , BUT all that speed is lost as it converts data
>> back and forth between data Maya can use and KL.   I actually get faster
>> results out of the new Maya GPU accelerated.
>> ...but faster results out of XSI.  Good old XSI.
>> I love it when a studio has like one license for XSI.   I always snatch
>> it up and never turn my box off.
>> I've made a career off of lurking in the background making stuff like 5
>> times faster in XSI.
>>
>> I know it's childish to enjoy, but I still enjoy a good rant about the
>> pain of rigging in Maya.
>> On Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM, "Eugene Flormata"  wrote:
>>
>>> Yah, not sure why there's no improvement in the processflow for rigging
>>> in that much time, almost in any program i see, so many advancements in
>>> modeling. but nothing for rigging.
>>> no zbrush of rigging so to speak.
>>>
>>> I like how there's notes and tips even when you just turn on the
>>> quaddraw. feels really thought out.
>>>
>>> a lot of maya feels like different programs just stapled together in a
>>> package
>>> vs XSI's whole package made for one user mentality.
>>> I just thought quad draw had that feel to it.
>>>
>>> I've not made any rigs in maya yet, and all my XSI rigs were pretty basic
>>> but at least while I was rigging, i wasn't punished for something i
>>> wanted to go back and change in XSI whenever you learned something about
>>> your mesh you wanted to animate.
>>> which the real benefit to the XSI over maya, it reduced the number of
>>> iterations in the learning process.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Eric Turman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm glad you are liking your new modeling tools, Eugene. However I
 believe that it is important to make the distinction that it is not about
 the confusion in Maya rigging--at least not for me; I do not find Maya
 confusing at all. What the huge issue with Maya is that its limited rigging
 tool-set combined with archaic workflow make the task of rigging drudgery.*
 Drudgery* is the key word more than confusion. I have made many
 character rigs in Maya over the past fifteen-plus years and Maya still
 sucks at it.


>>>
>


-- 
www.johnrichardsanchez.com

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sebastien Sterling]

"I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
rigging"

Here, here man !

"I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
heavy work. I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do
all the heavy work. "

so you can build a Rig in fabric, as a generalist ?

can you paint weights in it as well ?

I too hope Fabric blossoms into the next era of DCC's

On 23 January 2016 at 00:48, Michael Amasio 
wrote:

> I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
> rigging.  It's not all that magical for something complex in Maya.  Which
> as I'm sure several of you have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem.
> I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
> heavy work.
> But when it approaches the quality I require, fabric is providing all the
> computational speed I need , BUT all that speed is lost as it converts data
> back and forth between data Maya can use and KL.   I actually get faster
> results out of the new Maya GPU accelerated.
> ...but faster results out of XSI.  Good old XSI.
> I love it when a studio has like one license for XSI.   I always snatch it
> up and never turn my box off.
> I've made a career off of lurking in the background making stuff like 5
> times faster in XSI.
>
> I know it's childish to enjoy, but I still enjoy a good rant about the
> pain of rigging in Maya.
> On Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM, "Eugene Flormata"  wrote:
>
>> Yah, not sure why there's no improvement in the processflow for rigging
>> in that much time, almost in any program i see, so many advancements in
>> modeling. but nothing for rigging.
>> no zbrush of rigging so to speak.
>>
>> I like how there's notes and tips even when you just turn on the
>> quaddraw. feels really thought out.
>>
>> a lot of maya feels like different programs just stapled together in a
>> package
>> vs XSI's whole package made for one user mentality.
>> I just thought quad draw had that feel to it.
>>
>> I've not made any rigs in maya yet, and all my XSI rigs were pretty basic
>> but at least while I was rigging, i wasn't punished for something i
>> wanted to go back and change in XSI whenever you learned something about
>> your mesh you wanted to animate.
>> which the real benefit to the XSI over maya, it reduced the number of
>> iterations in the learning process.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Eric Turman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm glad you are liking your new modeling tools, Eugene. However I
>>> believe that it is important to make the distinction that it is not about
>>> the confusion in Maya rigging--at least not for me; I do not find Maya
>>> confusing at all. What the huge issue with Maya is that its limited rigging
>>> tool-set combined with archaic workflow make the task of rigging drudgery.*
>>> Drudgery* is the key word more than confusion. I have made many
>>> character rigs in Maya over the past fifteen-plus years and Maya still
>>> sucks at it.
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sebastien Sterling]

"no improvement in the processflow for rigging in that much time, almost in
any program"

This is very true Eugene, there has been very little in this regard,
however it is also necessary to point out, that all the DCC's didn't start
on the same rung when it came to that stagnation.

It is also good to remember how abysmal Maya's offerings where in terms of
polymodeling before quaddraw, which is in fact NEX tools originally, which
kinda feels like an amalgamation of both softimage and max functionality
and philosophy

Quaddraw, is all well and good, but i suspect it may have some very glaring
limitations, on higher polygon count assets:

I have a Tiger mesh i built, realistic asset 52 000 poly's, pretty standard
to my knowledge as far as film and high end commercials go

I want to cut the head off to do some stuff, then reattach it.

already as i separate the head, and start moving it, there is a massive
hit, every time i pick up the head hull, its like a full 2 seconds delay
before it follows the cursor.

now if i try to use the target weld tool, (which is the Quaddraw solution
for welding points) after reconnecting 3 verts the tool becomes sluggish,
after five it become glittery and lags like a pig dipped in shit, and i
have to delete the history... i have another 107 verts to reconnect...

i'd like to think this is all my PC dying, but the same operations in soft
run are as smooth as butter, the frame rate actually goes up as i am moving
the head around, which i find partially disturbing?. :(

i haven't had time to mess around too much with the tools in Quaddraw,
however from what i have seen, they seem temperamental and prone to
crashing, i modeled something up from a simple box the other day, reached
107 polygones, maya crashes to desktop, i turn on softimage.

I respect the functionality and ease of use they offer however,
stability... as the french would say "C'est pas pour les cochons" (is not
just for pigs).

PS:

Nice one Greg ;) though given the topic of this thread, this pic seems a
little closer to the money.
Ou ! the Romeroe's are living in Ireland now, are you the same Greg that
worked on Doom ?

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Michael Amasio]

I'm still holding out that fabric engine will become a solution for
rigging.  It's not all that magical for something complex in Maya.  Which
as I'm sure several of you have discovered is a bit of a Maya problem.
I can paint weights and build a rig in Maya using fabric to do all the
heavy work.
But when it approaches the quality I require, fabric is providing all the
computational speed I need , BUT all that speed is lost as it converts data
back and forth between data Maya can use and KL.   I actually get faster
results out of the new Maya GPU accelerated.
...but faster results out of XSI.  Good old XSI.
I love it when a studio has like one license for XSI.   I always snatch it
up and never turn my box off.
I've made a career off of lurking in the background making stuff like 5
times faster in XSI.

I know it's childish to enjoy, but I still enjoy a good rant about the pain
of rigging in Maya.
On Jan 22, 2016 3:31 PM, "Eugene Flormata"  wrote:

> Yah, not sure why there's no improvement in the processflow for rigging in
> that much time, almost in any program i see, so many advancements in
> modeling. but nothing for rigging.
> no zbrush of rigging so to speak.
>
> I like how there's notes and tips even when you just turn on the quaddraw.
> feels really thought out.
>
> a lot of maya feels like different programs just stapled together in a
> package
> vs XSI's whole package made for one user mentality.
> I just thought quad draw had that feel to it.
>
> I've not made any rigs in maya yet, and all my XSI rigs were pretty basic
> but at least while I was rigging, i wasn't punished for something i wanted
> to go back and change in XSI whenever you learned something about your mesh
> you wanted to animate.
> which the real benefit to the XSI over maya, it reduced the number of
> iterations in the learning process.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Eric Turman  wrote:
>
>> I'm glad you are liking your new modeling tools, Eugene. However I
>> believe that it is important to make the distinction that it is not about
>> the confusion in Maya rigging--at least not for me; I do not find Maya
>> confusing at all. What the huge issue with Maya is that its limited rigging
>> tool-set combined with archaic workflow make the task of rigging drudgery.*
>> Drudgery* is the key word more than confusion. I have made many
>> character rigs in Maya over the past fifteen-plus years and Maya still
>> sucks at it.
>>
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Eugene Flormata]

Yah, not sure why there's no improvement in the processflow for rigging in
that much time, almost in any program i see, so many advancements in
modeling. but nothing for rigging.
no zbrush of rigging so to speak.

I like how there's notes and tips even when you just turn on the quaddraw.
feels really thought out.

a lot of maya feels like different programs just stapled together in a
package
vs XSI's whole package made for one user mentality.
I just thought quad draw had that feel to it.

I've not made any rigs in maya yet, and all my XSI rigs were pretty basic
but at least while I was rigging, i wasn't punished for something i wanted
to go back and change in XSI whenever you learned something about your mesh
you wanted to animate.
which the real benefit to the XSI over maya, it reduced the number of
iterations in the learning process.



On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Eric Turman  wrote:

> I'm glad you are liking your new modeling tools, Eugene. However I believe
> that it is important to make the distinction that it is not about the
> confusion in Maya rigging--at least not for me; I do not find Maya
> confusing at all. What the huge issue with Maya is that its limited rigging
> tool-set combined with archaic workflow make the task of rigging drudgery.*
> Drudgery* is the key word more than confusion. I have made many character
> rigs in Maya over the past fifteen-plus years and Maya still sucks at it.
>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Jennifer Goldfinch]

Would I have to call you Mr GregTheBoss if you had? :)






On Jan 22, 2016, at 3:29 PM, Greg Punchatz  wrote:

> P.S.  It is a shame that you didn't win the lottery Greg ;)
> 
> We would be having a whole different discussion now wouldn't we? :) 
> 
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Eric Turman  wrote:
> Agreed
> "In maya the excuse you will be given, is "well you can isol"...FUCK OFF!!! 
> isolate is a stupid solution, that requires way to many steps, and requires 
> multy selections, something that for some retarded reason maya can't do ?! 
> and hides everything even the bones you want to weight to.
> 
> these are not small things, these are core functionality that is missing, if 
> you can't get this shit right then maybe you should not be in the software 
> game."
> 
> 
> Maya and their ignorant user base offer excuses, workarounds, and patchwork 
> script solutions where as we had real working solutions right out of the box 
> with Softimage. 
> 
> 
> P.S.  It is a shame that you didn't win the lottery Greg ;)
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -=T=-
> 

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Greg Punchatz]

*P.S.  It is a shame that you didn't win the lottery Greg ;)*

We would be having a whole different discussion now wouldn't we? :)

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Eric Turman  wrote:

> Agreed
>
>> "In maya the excuse you will be given, is "well you can isol"...FUCK
>> OFF!!! isolate is a stupid solution, that requires way to many steps, and
>> requires multy selections, something that for some retarded reason maya
>> can't do ?! and hides everything even the bones you want to weight to.
>>
>> these are not small things, these are core functionality that is missing,
>> if you can't get this shit right then maybe you should not be in the
>> software game."
>>
>
> Maya and their ignorant user base offer excuses, workarounds, and
> patchwork script solutions where as we had real working solutions right out
> of the box with Softimage.
>
>
> P.S.  It is a shame that you didn't win the lottery Greg ;)
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> -=T=-
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Greg Punchatz]

... kind of went off there again a bit, sorry guys :P but god damn, GOD
DAMN !
[image: Inline image 1]

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Adam Sale
>
> Maybe if they get enough requests, they will EOL Maya :), that seems to be
> there modus apparandi, "we have a software, we took their money, they made
> requests, we canceled our software = no more requests !!!"
>
> I would like to put on a braver face man, but they have had decades to
> look into this stuff, and it doesn't look like they have any interest in
> doing much more then shoving more stupid ineffective weighting algorithms.
>
>  If you have devised any methods to survive this particular jungle, any
> info is appreciated I'm sure i speak for all in this matter, that said i'd
> hate to subject anyone to more maya time :P
>
>
> I'm going to bring it up again cause quite frankly fuck them for still
> unerringly daring not to have such a simple fucking feature, but hiding
> polygons ? really ? guys ? this we can not have ?
>
> it seems stupid, but people donm't seem to realise what a god send that
> feature is,
>
>
> if you are skinning a hand, and you want to weight the inside of the palm
> so it isn't crashing in on itself...
>
> if you wand to weight(or even model) a mouth bag, behind lips ...
>
> if you have multiple pieces of geo making up your characters hair and you
> want to weight them individually...
>
>
> (in a "lesser" DCC (apparently) you would... hide.. the polygons?)
>
>
> In maya the excuse you will be given, is "well you can isol"...FUCK OFF!!!
> isolate is a stupid solution, that requires way to many steps, and requires
> multy selections, something that for some retarded reason maya can't do ?!
> and hides everything even the bones you want to weight to.
>
> these are not small things, these are core functionality that is missing,
> if you can't get this shit right then maybe you should not be in the
> software game.
>
>
> ... kind of went off there again a bit, sorry guys :P but god damn, GOD
> DAMN !
>
> On 22 January 2016 at 19:32, Mirko Jankovic 
> wrote:
>
>> " I have learned how to work around all these issues,"
>>
>> And again it proves correct.
>>
>> With Maya you workaround
>> with Softimage you work!
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Greg Punchatz 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Does not sound fun
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 22, 2016, Adam Sale  wrote:
>>>
 Sebastien... re rigging in Maya

 you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The weight
 painting is a death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death sentence,
 the UI for scrubbing through the list of deformers makes me want to snuff
 it, they still expect you to lock every single joint, less it start firing
 weights randomly into other deformers. erase influence in a finger, it ends
 up in a leg... more then just the crippled demented functionality, the feel
 of the whole thing is off, having to reload the weighting interface every
 time you want to translate or rotate a bone the list goes on and on,


 Bang On.

 On my latest face rig in Maya, the back and forth between weights
 bleeding onto unrelated joints a mile away is insane. The locking and
 unlocking thing doesn't really work the way you think it should. I mean,
 even if the joints are locked, you can still edit their weights, which I
 guess means that locking is only good for the normalization process when
 Maya decides to reassign loose weights elsewhere. Joint orients, Lack of
 access and functionality to weight editors, paint weights that need
 reloading constantly. I have learned how to work around all these issues,
 and I think i will post a video at some point, so I can remember myself ;-)

 Without giving anything away based on our NDA, those of us SI folk on
 the Maya beta list, have been hammering rigging reform for a couple of
 years now. There is a giant list that's been assembled, and waiting for
 implementation !!


 Adam



 On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 5:05 AM, Olivier Jeannel <
 facialdel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Amen to that Ognjen !
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Ognjen Vukovic 
> wrote:
>
>> I suppose at the pace sideFX are steamrolling their app, it could be
>> a functional animation software given a year or two. But thats just  a
>> guess from my side, maybe someone could comment on that who has a bit 
>> more
>> knowledge on H.
>> Then it could easily snap out the mayas position of industry leader,
>> I just wish indy version would support the redshift plug in thats coming
>> out, that would make it a no brainer for me personaly as to where i would
>> pledge my allegiances to..
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Is

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Eric Turman]

I'm glad you are liking your new modeling tools, Eugene. However I believe
that it is important to make the distinction that it is not about the
confusion in Maya rigging--at least not for me; I do not find Maya
confusing at all. What the huge issue with Maya is that its limited rigging
tool-set combined with archaic workflow make the task of rigging drudgery.*
Drudgery* is the key word more than confusion. I have made many character
rigs in Maya over the past fifteen-plus years and Maya still sucks at it.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Eugene Flormata 
wrote:

> as much confusion rigging in maya brings, I'm really liking the quaddraw
> tool and sculpting.
>
>>
>>


-- 




-=T=-

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Eugene Flormata]

as much confusion rigging in maya brings, I'm really liking the quaddraw
tool and sculpting.



On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Eric Turman  wrote:

> Agreed
>
>> "In maya the excuse you will be given, is "well you can isol"...FUCK
>> OFF!!! isolate is a stupid solution, that requires way to many steps, and
>> requires multy selections, something that for some retarded reason maya
>> can't do ?! and hides everything even the bones you want to weight to.
>>
>> these are not small things, these are core functionality that is missing,
>> if you can't get this shit right then maybe you should not be in the
>> software game."
>>
>
> Maya and their ignorant user base offer excuses, workarounds, and
> patchwork script solutions where as we had real working solutions right out
> of the box with Softimage.
>
>
> P.S.  It is a shame that you didn't win the lottery Greg ;)
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> -=T=-
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Eric Turman]

Agreed

> "In maya the excuse you will be given, is "well you can isol"...FUCK
> OFF!!! isolate is a stupid solution, that requires way to many steps, and
> requires multy selections, something that for some retarded reason maya
> can't do ?! and hides everything even the bones you want to weight to.
>
> these are not small things, these are core functionality that is missing,
> if you can't get this shit right then maybe you should not be in the
> software game."
>

Maya and their ignorant user base offer excuses, workarounds, and patchwork
script solutions where as we had real working solutions right out of the
box with Softimage.


P.S.  It is a shame that you didn't win the lottery Greg ;)

-- 




-=T=-

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sebastien Sterling]

Adam Sale

Maybe if they get enough requests, they will EOL Maya :), that seems to be
there modus apparandi, "we have a software, we took their money, they made
requests, we canceled our software = no more requests !!!"

I would like to put on a braver face man, but they have had decades to look
into this stuff, and it doesn't look like they have any interest in doing
much more then shoving more stupid ineffective weighting algorithms.

 If you have devised any methods to survive this particular jungle, any
info is appreciated I'm sure i speak for all in this matter, that said i'd
hate to subject anyone to more maya time :P


I'm going to bring it up again cause quite frankly fuck them for still
unerringly daring not to have such a simple fucking feature, but hiding
polygons ? really ? guys ? this we can not have ?

it seems stupid, but people donm't seem to realise what a god send that
feature is,


if you are skinning a hand, and you want to weight the inside of the palm
so it isn't crashing in on itself...

if you wand to weight(or even model) a mouth bag, behind lips ...

if you have multiple pieces of geo making up your characters hair and you
want to weight them individually...


(in a "lesser" DCC (apparently) you would... hide.. the polygons?)


In maya the excuse you will be given, is "well you can isol"...FUCK OFF!!!
isolate is a stupid solution, that requires way to many steps, and requires
multy selections, something that for some retarded reason maya can't do ?!
and hides everything even the bones you want to weight to.

these are not small things, these are core functionality that is missing,
if you can't get this shit right then maybe you should not be in the
software game.


... kind of went off there again a bit, sorry guys :P but god damn, GOD
DAMN !

On 22 January 2016 at 19:32, Mirko Jankovic 
wrote:

> " I have learned how to work around all these issues,"
>
> And again it proves correct.
>
> With Maya you workaround
> with Softimage you work!
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Greg Punchatz 
> wrote:
>
>> Does not sound fun
>>
>>
>> On Friday, January 22, 2016, Adam Sale  wrote:
>>
>>> Sebastien... re rigging in Maya
>>>
>>> you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The weight
>>> painting is a death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death sentence,
>>> the UI for scrubbing through the list of deformers makes me want to snuff
>>> it, they still expect you to lock every single joint, less it start firing
>>> weights randomly into other deformers. erase influence in a finger, it ends
>>> up in a leg... more then just the crippled demented functionality, the feel
>>> of the whole thing is off, having to reload the weighting interface every
>>> time you want to translate or rotate a bone the list goes on and on,
>>>
>>>
>>> Bang On.
>>>
>>> On my latest face rig in Maya, the back and forth between weights
>>> bleeding onto unrelated joints a mile away is insane. The locking and
>>> unlocking thing doesn't really work the way you think it should. I mean,
>>> even if the joints are locked, you can still edit their weights, which I
>>> guess means that locking is only good for the normalization process when
>>> Maya decides to reassign loose weights elsewhere. Joint orients, Lack of
>>> access and functionality to weight editors, paint weights that need
>>> reloading constantly. I have learned how to work around all these issues,
>>> and I think i will post a video at some point, so I can remember myself ;-)
>>>
>>> Without giving anything away based on our NDA, those of us SI folk on
>>> the Maya beta list, have been hammering rigging reform for a couple of
>>> years now. There is a giant list that's been assembled, and waiting for
>>> implementation !!
>>>
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 5:05 AM, Olivier Jeannel >> > wrote:
>>>
 Amen to that Ognjen !


 On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Ognjen Vukovic 
 wrote:

> I suppose at the pace sideFX are steamrolling their app, it could be a
> functional animation software given a year or two. But thats just  a guess
> from my side, maybe someone could comment on that who has a bit more
> knowledge on H.
> Then it could easily snap out the mayas position of industry leader, I
> just wish indy version would support the redshift plug in thats coming 
> out,
> that would make it a no brainer for me personaly as to where i would 
> pledge
> my allegiances to..
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is Fabric at a point where one can use it as a stand alone rigging
>> and skinning platform i wonder ? not much hope of getting studios to 
>> adopt,
>> specially not those that rely on sweat shops. but it would be nice to try
>> and sow some better seeds.
>>
>> Softies i love you all, sorry for venting but sometimes it really
>> feels despe

RE: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sven Constable]

When I read this I feel so happy using Softimage, really. It's a pleasure every 
day. I often work on things not necessarily but I have the free time to spend. 
For an extra mile to polish animation or renderings. Or cleaning scenes, make 
them more efficient. Setting up passes, things like that. The software got my 
back. ;)

 

sven

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Adam Sale
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 8:18 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

 

Sebastien... re rigging in Maya

 

you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The weight painting is a 
death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death sentence, the UI for scrubbing 
through the list of deformers makes me want to snuff it, they still expect you 
to lock every single joint, less it start firing weights randomly into other 
deformers. erase influence in a finger, it ends up in a leg... more then just 
the crippled demented functionality, the feel of the whole thing is off, having 
to reload the weighting interface every time you want to translate or rotate a 
bone the list goes on and on,

 

 

Bang On. 

 

On my latest face rig in Maya, the back and forth between weights bleeding onto 
unrelated joints a mile away is insane. The locking and unlocking thing doesn't 
really work the way you think it should. I mean, even if the joints are locked, 
you can still edit their weights, which I guess means that locking is only good 
for the normalization process when Maya decides to reassign loose weights 
elsewhere. Joint orients, Lack of access and functionality to weight editors, 
paint weights that need reloading constantly. I have learned how to work around 
all these issues, and I think i will post a video at some point, so I can 
remember myself ;-)

 

Without giving anything away based on our NDA, those of us SI folk on the Maya 
beta list, have been hammering rigging reform for a couple of years now. There 
is a giant list that's been assembled, and waiting for implementation !!

 


Adam

 

 

 

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 5:05 AM, Olivier Jeannel  wrote:

Amen to that Ognjen !

 

 

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Ognjen Vukovic  wrote:

I suppose at the pace sideFX are steamrolling their app, it could be a 
functional animation software given a year or two. But thats just  a guess from 
my side, maybe someone could comment on that who has a bit more knowledge on H. 
 

Then it could easily snap out the mayas position of industry leader, I just 
wish indy version would support the redshift plug in thats coming out, that 
would make it a no brainer for me personaly as to where i would pledge my 
allegiances to..

 

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Sebastien Sterling 
 wrote:

Is Fabric at a point where one can use it as a stand alone rigging and skinning 
platform i wonder ? not much hope of getting studios to adopt, specially not 
those that rely on sweat shops. but it would be nice to try and sow some better 
seeds.

Softies i love you all, sorry for venting but sometimes it really feels 
desperate, to come back to rigging in maya a decade later and the most 
impactful thing to be added is, delta much, tech from another dying company, 
that everyone and there dog was able to replicate it seems.

But no, you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The weight 
painting is a death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death sentence, the UI 
for scrubbing through the list of deformers makes me want to snuff it, they 
still expect you to lock every single joint, less it start firing weights 
randomly into other deformers. erase influence in a finger, it ends up in a 
leg... more then just the crippled demented functionality, the feel of the 
whole thing is off, having to reload the weighting interface every time you 
want to translate or rotate a bone the list goes on and on, 

 

On 22 January 2016 at 10:23, Tom Kleinenberg  wrote:

Heh, sorry, what I meant was sad was the blind crowd-think. I learnt pretty 
quickly that that any tool can do anything (when at a Lightwave studio and they 
were trumpeting how Lightwave was used for bits of Ironman). Some tools are 
just easier than others for certain tasks and Softimage does 90% of what I do 
in the easiest way I've come across.

And no Sandy, you never got my rigging, not even in XSI :) One day, one day...

 

On 22 January 2016 at 10:10, Sandy Sutherland  wrote:

We never got you rigging in Softimage then Tom - ;)

 

S.

 

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Tom Kleinenberg  wrote:

At college we were taught Max and Maya. Maya was by far the most popular with 
students. I never much cared for it, so I always asked "What do you like about 
it over Max?" I couldn't ever get a straight answer and was generally fobbed 
off with something like "Well, they used it in the Matrix/Lord of

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Mirko Jankovic]

" I have learned how to work around all these issues,"

And again it proves correct.

With Maya you workaround
with Softimage you work!

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Greg Punchatz  wrote:

> Does not sound fun
>
>
> On Friday, January 22, 2016, Adam Sale  wrote:
>
>> Sebastien... re rigging in Maya
>>
>> you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The weight painting
>> is a death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death sentence, the UI for
>> scrubbing through the list of deformers makes me want to snuff it, they
>> still expect you to lock every single joint, less it start firing weights
>> randomly into other deformers. erase influence in a finger, it ends up in a
>> leg... more then just the crippled demented functionality, the feel of the
>> whole thing is off, having to reload the weighting interface every time you
>> want to translate or rotate a bone the list goes on and on,
>>
>>
>> Bang On.
>>
>> On my latest face rig in Maya, the back and forth between weights
>> bleeding onto unrelated joints a mile away is insane. The locking and
>> unlocking thing doesn't really work the way you think it should. I mean,
>> even if the joints are locked, you can still edit their weights, which I
>> guess means that locking is only good for the normalization process when
>> Maya decides to reassign loose weights elsewhere. Joint orients, Lack of
>> access and functionality to weight editors, paint weights that need
>> reloading constantly. I have learned how to work around all these issues,
>> and I think i will post a video at some point, so I can remember myself ;-)
>>
>> Without giving anything away based on our NDA, those of us SI folk on the
>> Maya beta list, have been hammering rigging reform for a couple of years
>> now. There is a giant list that's been assembled, and waiting for
>> implementation !!
>>
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 5:05 AM, Olivier Jeannel 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Amen to that Ognjen !
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Ognjen Vukovic 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I suppose at the pace sideFX are steamrolling their app, it could be a
 functional animation software given a year or two. But thats just  a guess
 from my side, maybe someone could comment on that who has a bit more
 knowledge on H.
 Then it could easily snap out the mayas position of industry leader, I
 just wish indy version would support the redshift plug in thats coming out,
 that would make it a no brainer for me personaly as to where i would pledge
 my allegiances to..

 On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
 sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is Fabric at a point where one can use it as a stand alone rigging and
> skinning platform i wonder ? not much hope of getting studios to adopt,
> specially not those that rely on sweat shops. but it would be nice to try
> and sow some better seeds.
>
> Softies i love you all, sorry for venting but sometimes it really
> feels desperate, to come back to rigging in maya a decade later and the
> most impactful thing to be added is, delta much, tech from another
> dying company, that everyone and there dog was able to replicate it seems.
>
> But no, you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The
> weight painting is a death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death
> sentence, the UI for scrubbing through the list of deformers makes me want
> to snuff it, they still expect you to lock every single joint, less it
> start firing weights randomly into other deformers. erase influence in a
> finger, it ends up in a leg... more then just the crippled demented
> functionality, the feel of the whole thing is off, having to reload the
> weighting interface every time you want to translate or rotate a bone
> the list goes on and on,
>
> On 22 January 2016 at 10:23, Tom Kleinenberg 
> wrote:
>
>> Heh, sorry, what I meant was sad was the blind crowd-think. I learnt
>> pretty quickly that that any tool can do anything (when at a Lightwave
>> studio and they were trumpeting how Lightwave was used for bits of
>> Ironman). Some tools are just easier than others for certain tasks and
>> Softimage does 90% of what I do in the easiest way I've come across.
>>
>> And no Sandy, you never got my rigging, not even in XSI :) One day,
>> one day...
>>
>> On 22 January 2016 at 10:10, Sandy Sutherland <
>> sandy.mailli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We never got you rigging in Softimage then Tom - ;)
>>>
>>> S.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Tom Kleinenberg <
>>> zagan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 At college we were taught Max and Maya. Maya was by far the most
 popular with students. I never much cared for it, so I always asked 
 "What
 do you like about it over Max?" I couldn't ever get a 

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Greg Punchatz]

Does not sound fun

On Friday, January 22, 2016, Adam Sale  wrote:

> Sebastien... re rigging in Maya
>
> you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The weight painting
> is a death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death sentence, the UI for
> scrubbing through the list of deformers makes me want to snuff it, they
> still expect you to lock every single joint, less it start firing weights
> randomly into other deformers. erase influence in a finger, it ends up in a
> leg... more then just the crippled demented functionality, the feel of the
> whole thing is off, having to reload the weighting interface every time you
> want to translate or rotate a bone the list goes on and on,
>
>
> Bang On.
>
> On my latest face rig in Maya, the back and forth between weights bleeding
> onto unrelated joints a mile away is insane. The locking and unlocking
> thing doesn't really work the way you think it should. I mean, even if the
> joints are locked, you can still edit their weights, which I guess means
> that locking is only good for the normalization process when Maya decides
> to reassign loose weights elsewhere. Joint orients, Lack of access and
> functionality to weight editors, paint weights that need reloading
> constantly. I have learned how to work around all these issues, and I think
> i will post a video at some point, so I can remember myself ;-)
>
> Without giving anything away based on our NDA, those of us SI folk on the
> Maya beta list, have been hammering rigging reform for a couple of years
> now. There is a giant list that's been assembled, and waiting for
> implementation !!
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 5:05 AM, Olivier Jeannel  > wrote:
>
>> Amen to that Ognjen !
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Ognjen Vukovic > > wrote:
>>
>>> I suppose at the pace sideFX are steamrolling their app, it could be a
>>> functional animation software given a year or two. But thats just  a guess
>>> from my side, maybe someone could comment on that who has a bit more
>>> knowledge on H.
>>> Then it could easily snap out the mayas position of industry leader, I
>>> just wish indy version would support the redshift plug in thats coming out,
>>> that would make it a no brainer for me personaly as to where i would pledge
>>> my allegiances to..
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
>>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
 Is Fabric at a point where one can use it as a stand alone rigging and
 skinning platform i wonder ? not much hope of getting studios to adopt,
 specially not those that rely on sweat shops. but it would be nice to try
 and sow some better seeds.

 Softies i love you all, sorry for venting but sometimes it really feels
 desperate, to come back to rigging in maya a decade later and the most
 impactful thing to be added is, delta much, tech from another dying
 company, that everyone and there dog was able to replicate it seems.

 But no, you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The
 weight painting is a death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death
 sentence, the UI for scrubbing through the list of deformers makes me want
 to snuff it, they still expect you to lock every single joint, less it
 start firing weights randomly into other deformers. erase influence in a
 finger, it ends up in a leg... more then just the crippled demented
 functionality, the feel of the whole thing is off, having to reload the
 weighting interface every time you want to translate or rotate a bone
 the list goes on and on,

 On 22 January 2016 at 10:23, Tom Kleinenberg >>> > wrote:

> Heh, sorry, what I meant was sad was the blind crowd-think. I learnt
> pretty quickly that that any tool can do anything (when at a Lightwave
> studio and they were trumpeting how Lightwave was used for bits of
> Ironman). Some tools are just easier than others for certain tasks and
> Softimage does 90% of what I do in the easiest way I've come across.
>
> And no Sandy, you never got my rigging, not even in XSI :) One day,
> one day...
>
> On 22 January 2016 at 10:10, Sandy Sutherland <
> sandy.mailli...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> We never got you rigging in Softimage then Tom - ;)
>>
>> S.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Tom Kleinenberg > > wrote:
>>
>>> At college we were taught Max and Maya. Maya was by far the most
>>> popular with students. I never much cared for it, so I always asked 
>>> "What
>>> do you like about it over Max?" I couldn't ever get a straight answer 
>>> and
>>> was generally fobbed off with something like "Well, they used it in the
>>> Matrix/Lord of the Rings/etc". Made me sad.
>>>
>>> On 22 January 2016 at 09:42, Olivier Jeannel >> > wrote:
>>>
 That is very true Stefan.
 And people look at yo

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Adam Sale]

Sebastien... re rigging in Maya

you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The weight painting
is a death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death sentence, the UI for
scrubbing through the list of deformers makes me want to snuff it, they
still expect you to lock every single joint, less it start firing weights
randomly into other deformers. erase influence in a finger, it ends up in a
leg... more then just the crippled demented functionality, the feel of the
whole thing is off, having to reload the weighting interface every time you
want to translate or rotate a bone the list goes on and on,


Bang On.

On my latest face rig in Maya, the back and forth between weights bleeding
onto unrelated joints a mile away is insane. The locking and unlocking
thing doesn't really work the way you think it should. I mean, even if the
joints are locked, you can still edit their weights, which I guess means
that locking is only good for the normalization process when Maya decides
to reassign loose weights elsewhere. Joint orients, Lack of access and
functionality to weight editors, paint weights that need reloading
constantly. I have learned how to work around all these issues, and I think
i will post a video at some point, so I can remember myself ;-)

Without giving anything away based on our NDA, those of us SI folk on the
Maya beta list, have been hammering rigging reform for a couple of years
now. There is a giant list that's been assembled, and waiting for
implementation !!


Adam



On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 5:05 AM, Olivier Jeannel 
wrote:

> Amen to that Ognjen !
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Ognjen Vukovic  wrote:
>
>> I suppose at the pace sideFX are steamrolling their app, it could be a
>> functional animation software given a year or two. But thats just  a guess
>> from my side, maybe someone could comment on that who has a bit more
>> knowledge on H.
>> Then it could easily snap out the mayas position of industry leader, I
>> just wish indy version would support the redshift plug in thats coming out,
>> that would make it a no brainer for me personaly as to where i would pledge
>> my allegiances to..
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Is Fabric at a point where one can use it as a stand alone rigging and
>>> skinning platform i wonder ? not much hope of getting studios to adopt,
>>> specially not those that rely on sweat shops. but it would be nice to try
>>> and sow some better seeds.
>>>
>>> Softies i love you all, sorry for venting but sometimes it really feels
>>> desperate, to come back to rigging in maya a decade later and the most
>>> impactful thing to be added is, delta much, tech from another dying
>>> company, that everyone and there dog was able to replicate it seems.
>>>
>>> But no, you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The weight
>>> painting is a death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death sentence,
>>> the UI for scrubbing through the list of deformers makes me want to snuff
>>> it, they still expect you to lock every single joint, less it start firing
>>> weights randomly into other deformers. erase influence in a finger, it ends
>>> up in a leg... more then just the crippled demented functionality, the feel
>>> of the whole thing is off, having to reload the weighting interface every
>>> time you want to translate or rotate a bone the list goes on and on,
>>>
>>> On 22 January 2016 at 10:23, Tom Kleinenberg  wrote:
>>>
 Heh, sorry, what I meant was sad was the blind crowd-think. I learnt
 pretty quickly that that any tool can do anything (when at a Lightwave
 studio and they were trumpeting how Lightwave was used for bits of
 Ironman). Some tools are just easier than others for certain tasks and
 Softimage does 90% of what I do in the easiest way I've come across.

 And no Sandy, you never got my rigging, not even in XSI :) One day, one
 day...

 On 22 January 2016 at 10:10, Sandy Sutherland <
 sandy.mailli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We never got you rigging in Softimage then Tom - ;)
>
> S.
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Tom Kleinenberg 
> wrote:
>
>> At college we were taught Max and Maya. Maya was by far the most
>> popular with students. I never much cared for it, so I always asked "What
>> do you like about it over Max?" I couldn't ever get a straight answer and
>> was generally fobbed off with something like "Well, they used it in the
>> Matrix/Lord of the Rings/etc". Made me sad.
>>
>> On 22 January 2016 at 09:42, Olivier Jeannel 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That is very true Stefan.
>>> And people look at you weird just because you're not in the Maya
>>> majority...
>>> It's like speaking of the taste of chiken inside a kfc, nobody get's
>>> a clue.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Stefan Kubicek <
>>> s...@tidbit-ima

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Olivier Jeannel]

Amen to that Ognjen !


On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Ognjen Vukovic  wrote:

> I suppose at the pace sideFX are steamrolling their app, it could be a
> functional animation software given a year or two. But thats just  a guess
> from my side, maybe someone could comment on that who has a bit more
> knowledge on H.
> Then it could easily snap out the mayas position of industry leader, I
> just wish indy version would support the redshift plug in thats coming out,
> that would make it a no brainer for me personaly as to where i would pledge
> my allegiances to..
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is Fabric at a point where one can use it as a stand alone rigging and
>> skinning platform i wonder ? not much hope of getting studios to adopt,
>> specially not those that rely on sweat shops. but it would be nice to try
>> and sow some better seeds.
>>
>> Softies i love you all, sorry for venting but sometimes it really feels
>> desperate, to come back to rigging in maya a decade later and the most
>> impactful thing to be added is, delta much, tech from another dying
>> company, that everyone and there dog was able to replicate it seems.
>>
>> But no, you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The weight
>> painting is a death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death sentence,
>> the UI for scrubbing through the list of deformers makes me want to snuff
>> it, they still expect you to lock every single joint, less it start firing
>> weights randomly into other deformers. erase influence in a finger, it ends
>> up in a leg... more then just the crippled demented functionality, the feel
>> of the whole thing is off, having to reload the weighting interface every
>> time you want to translate or rotate a bone the list goes on and on,
>>
>> On 22 January 2016 at 10:23, Tom Kleinenberg  wrote:
>>
>>> Heh, sorry, what I meant was sad was the blind crowd-think. I learnt
>>> pretty quickly that that any tool can do anything (when at a Lightwave
>>> studio and they were trumpeting how Lightwave was used for bits of
>>> Ironman). Some tools are just easier than others for certain tasks and
>>> Softimage does 90% of what I do in the easiest way I've come across.
>>>
>>> And no Sandy, you never got my rigging, not even in XSI :) One day, one
>>> day...
>>>
>>> On 22 January 2016 at 10:10, Sandy Sutherland >> > wrote:
>>>
 We never got you rigging in Softimage then Tom - ;)

 S.

 On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Tom Kleinenberg 
 wrote:

> At college we were taught Max and Maya. Maya was by far the most
> popular with students. I never much cared for it, so I always asked "What
> do you like about it over Max?" I couldn't ever get a straight answer and
> was generally fobbed off with something like "Well, they used it in the
> Matrix/Lord of the Rings/etc". Made me sad.
>
> On 22 January 2016 at 09:42, Olivier Jeannel 
> wrote:
>
>> That is very true Stefan.
>> And people look at you weird just because you're not in the Maya
>> majority...
>> It's like speaking of the taste of chiken inside a kfc, nobody get's
>> a clue.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Stefan Kubicek > > wrote:
>>
>>> There are only two kinds of 3D Artists:
>>> Those who use Softimage, and those who never tried.
>>>
>>> The story of Softimage's demise is one of ignorance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But they don;t know for better so burning bed for them is as good as
>>> it gets.
>>> They have no idea what is a fluffy feeling of Softimage around you :(
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Gerbrand Nel 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I know many of us are forced by employers or situations to convert
 to maya.
 My heart goes out to you!
 But the rest of you fuckers who choose to go to maya over all the
 other options out there.
 You have made your beds, now burn in them.

>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Ognjen Vukovic]

I suppose at the pace sideFX are steamrolling their app, it could be a
functional animation software given a year or two. But thats just  a guess
from my side, maybe someone could comment on that who has a bit more
knowledge on H.
Then it could easily snap out the mayas position of industry leader, I just
wish indy version would support the redshift plug in thats coming out, that
would make it a no brainer for me personaly as to where i would pledge my
allegiances to..

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is Fabric at a point where one can use it as a stand alone rigging and
> skinning platform i wonder ? not much hope of getting studios to adopt,
> specially not those that rely on sweat shops. but it would be nice to try
> and sow some better seeds.
>
> Softies i love you all, sorry for venting but sometimes it really feels
> desperate, to come back to rigging in maya a decade later and the most
> impactful thing to be added is, delta much, tech from another dying
> company, that everyone and there dog was able to replicate it seems.
>
> But no, you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The weight
> painting is a death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death sentence,
> the UI for scrubbing through the list of deformers makes me want to snuff
> it, they still expect you to lock every single joint, less it start firing
> weights randomly into other deformers. erase influence in a finger, it ends
> up in a leg... more then just the crippled demented functionality, the feel
> of the whole thing is off, having to reload the weighting interface every
> time you want to translate or rotate a bone the list goes on and on,
>
> On 22 January 2016 at 10:23, Tom Kleinenberg  wrote:
>
>> Heh, sorry, what I meant was sad was the blind crowd-think. I learnt
>> pretty quickly that that any tool can do anything (when at a Lightwave
>> studio and they were trumpeting how Lightwave was used for bits of
>> Ironman). Some tools are just easier than others for certain tasks and
>> Softimage does 90% of what I do in the easiest way I've come across.
>>
>> And no Sandy, you never got my rigging, not even in XSI :) One day, one
>> day...
>>
>> On 22 January 2016 at 10:10, Sandy Sutherland 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We never got you rigging in Softimage then Tom - ;)
>>>
>>> S.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Tom Kleinenberg 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 At college we were taught Max and Maya. Maya was by far the most
 popular with students. I never much cared for it, so I always asked "What
 do you like about it over Max?" I couldn't ever get a straight answer and
 was generally fobbed off with something like "Well, they used it in the
 Matrix/Lord of the Rings/etc". Made me sad.

 On 22 January 2016 at 09:42, Olivier Jeannel 
 wrote:

> That is very true Stefan.
> And people look at you weird just because you're not in the Maya
> majority...
> It's like speaking of the taste of chiken inside a kfc, nobody get's a
> clue.
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Stefan Kubicek 
> wrote:
>
>> There are only two kinds of 3D Artists:
>> Those who use Softimage, and those who never tried.
>>
>> The story of Softimage's demise is one of ignorance.
>>
>>
>>
>> But they don;t know for better so burning bed for them is as good as
>> it gets.
>> They have no idea what is a fluffy feeling of Softimage around you :(
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Gerbrand Nel 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I know many of us are forced by employers or situations to convert
>>> to maya.
>>> My heart goes out to you!
>>> But the rest of you fuckers who choose to go to maya over all the
>>> other options out there.
>>> You have made your beds, now burn in them.
>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sebastien Sterling]

Is Fabric at a point where one can use it as a stand alone rigging and
skinning platform i wonder ? not much hope of getting studios to adopt,
specially not those that rely on sweat shops. but it would be nice to try
and sow some better seeds.

Softies i love you all, sorry for venting but sometimes it really feels
desperate, to come back to rigging in maya a decade later and the most
impactful thing to be added is, delta much, tech from another dying
company, that everyone and there dog was able to replicate it seems.

But no, you come back and the skinning tools are still, shit. The weight
painting is a death sentence, the weight smoothing, is a death sentence,
the UI for scrubbing through the list of deformers makes me want to snuff
it, they still expect you to lock every single joint, less it start firing
weights randomly into other deformers. erase influence in a finger, it ends
up in a leg... more then just the crippled demented functionality, the feel
of the whole thing is off, having to reload the weighting interface every
time you want to translate or rotate a bone the list goes on and on,

On 22 January 2016 at 10:23, Tom Kleinenberg  wrote:

> Heh, sorry, what I meant was sad was the blind crowd-think. I learnt
> pretty quickly that that any tool can do anything (when at a Lightwave
> studio and they were trumpeting how Lightwave was used for bits of
> Ironman). Some tools are just easier than others for certain tasks and
> Softimage does 90% of what I do in the easiest way I've come across.
>
> And no Sandy, you never got my rigging, not even in XSI :) One day, one
> day...
>
> On 22 January 2016 at 10:10, Sandy Sutherland 
> wrote:
>
>> We never got you rigging in Softimage then Tom - ;)
>>
>> S.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Tom Kleinenberg 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> At college we were taught Max and Maya. Maya was by far the most popular
>>> with students. I never much cared for it, so I always asked "What do you
>>> like about it over Max?" I couldn't ever get a straight answer and was
>>> generally fobbed off with something like "Well, they used it in the
>>> Matrix/Lord of the Rings/etc". Made me sad.
>>>
>>> On 22 January 2016 at 09:42, Olivier Jeannel 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 That is very true Stefan.
 And people look at you weird just because you're not in the Maya
 majority...
 It's like speaking of the taste of chiken inside a kfc, nobody get's a
 clue.

 On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Stefan Kubicek 
 wrote:

> There are only two kinds of 3D Artists:
> Those who use Softimage, and those who never tried.
>
> The story of Softimage's demise is one of ignorance.
>
>
>
> But they don;t know for better so burning bed for them is as good as
> it gets.
> They have no idea what is a fluffy feeling of Softimage around you :(
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Gerbrand Nel 
> wrote:
>
>> I know many of us are forced by employers or situations to convert to
>> maya.
>> My heart goes out to you!
>> But the rest of you fuckers who choose to go to maya over all the
>> other options out there.
>> You have made your beds, now burn in them.
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Tom Kleinenberg]

Heh, sorry, what I meant was sad was the blind crowd-think. I learnt pretty
quickly that that any tool can do anything (when at a Lightwave studio and
they were trumpeting how Lightwave was used for bits of Ironman). Some
tools are just easier than others for certain tasks and Softimage does 90%
of what I do in the easiest way I've come across.

And no Sandy, you never got my rigging, not even in XSI :) One day, one
day...

On 22 January 2016 at 10:10, Sandy Sutherland 
wrote:

> We never got you rigging in Softimage then Tom - ;)
>
> S.
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Tom Kleinenberg 
> wrote:
>
>> At college we were taught Max and Maya. Maya was by far the most popular
>> with students. I never much cared for it, so I always asked "What do you
>> like about it over Max?" I couldn't ever get a straight answer and was
>> generally fobbed off with something like "Well, they used it in the
>> Matrix/Lord of the Rings/etc". Made me sad.
>>
>> On 22 January 2016 at 09:42, Olivier Jeannel 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That is very true Stefan.
>>> And people look at you weird just because you're not in the Maya
>>> majority...
>>> It's like speaking of the taste of chiken inside a kfc, nobody get's a
>>> clue.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Stefan Kubicek 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 There are only two kinds of 3D Artists:
 Those who use Softimage, and those who never tried.

 The story of Softimage's demise is one of ignorance.



 But they don;t know for better so burning bed for them is as good as it
 gets.
 They have no idea what is a fluffy feeling of Softimage around you :(

 On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Gerbrand Nel 
 wrote:

> I know many of us are forced by employers or situations to convert to
> maya.
> My heart goes out to you!
> But the rest of you fuckers who choose to go to maya over all the
> other options out there.
> You have made your beds, now burn in them.
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Sandy Sutherland]

We never got you rigging in Softimage then Tom - ;)

S.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Tom Kleinenberg 
wrote:

> At college we were taught Max and Maya. Maya was by far the most popular
> with students. I never much cared for it, so I always asked "What do you
> like about it over Max?" I couldn't ever get a straight answer and was
> generally fobbed off with something like "Well, they used it in the
> Matrix/Lord of the Rings/etc". Made me sad.
>
> On 22 January 2016 at 09:42, Olivier Jeannel 
> wrote:
>
>> That is very true Stefan.
>> And people look at you weird just because you're not in the Maya
>> majority...
>> It's like speaking of the taste of chiken inside a kfc, nobody get's a
>> clue.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Stefan Kubicek 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There are only two kinds of 3D Artists:
>>> Those who use Softimage, and those who never tried.
>>>
>>> The story of Softimage's demise is one of ignorance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But they don;t know for better so burning bed for them is as good as it
>>> gets.
>>> They have no idea what is a fluffy feeling of Softimage around you :(
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Gerbrand Nel  wrote:
>>>
 I know many of us are forced by employers or situations to convert to
 maya.
 My heart goes out to you!
 But the rest of you fuckers who choose to go to maya over all the other
 options out there.
 You have made your beds, now burn in them.

>>>
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Mirko Jankovic]

heheh well actually Max is even worse. Wouldn't animate in it if it was
gazillion usd per day pay rate.
whats use of money when you end up in asilium

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Tom Kleinenberg 
wrote:

> At college we were taught Max and Maya. Maya was by far the most popular
> with students. I never much cared for it, so I always asked "What do you
> like about it over Max?" I couldn't ever get a straight answer and was
> generally fobbed off with something like "Well, they used it in the
> Matrix/Lord of the Rings/etc". Made me sad.
>
> On 22 January 2016 at 09:42, Olivier Jeannel 
> wrote:
>
>> That is very true Stefan.
>> And people look at you weird just because you're not in the Maya
>> majority...
>> It's like speaking of the taste of chiken inside a kfc, nobody get's a
>> clue.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Stefan Kubicek 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There are only two kinds of 3D Artists:
>>> Those who use Softimage, and those who never tried.
>>>
>>> The story of Softimage's demise is one of ignorance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But they don;t know for better so burning bed for them is as good as it
>>> gets.
>>> They have no idea what is a fluffy feeling of Softimage around you :(
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Gerbrand Nel  wrote:
>>>
 I know many of us are forced by employers or situations to convert to
 maya.
 My heart goes out to you!
 But the rest of you fuckers who choose to go to maya over all the other
 options out there.
 You have made your beds, now burn in them.

>>>
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Tom Kleinenberg]

At college we were taught Max and Maya. Maya was by far the most popular
with students. I never much cared for it, so I always asked "What do you
like about it over Max?" I couldn't ever get a straight answer and was
generally fobbed off with something like "Well, they used it in the
Matrix/Lord of the Rings/etc". Made me sad.

On 22 January 2016 at 09:42, Olivier Jeannel  wrote:

> That is very true Stefan.
> And people look at you weird just because you're not in the Maya
> majority...
> It's like speaking of the taste of chiken inside a kfc, nobody get's a
> clue.
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Stefan Kubicek 
> wrote:
>
>> There are only two kinds of 3D Artists:
>> Those who use Softimage, and those who never tried.
>>
>> The story of Softimage's demise is one of ignorance.
>>
>>
>>
>> But they don;t know for better so burning bed for them is as good as it
>> gets.
>> They have no idea what is a fluffy feeling of Softimage around you :(
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Gerbrand Nel  wrote:
>>
>>> I know many of us are forced by employers or situations to convert to
>>> maya.
>>> My heart goes out to you!
>>> But the rest of you fuckers who choose to go to maya over all the other
>>> options out there.
>>> You have made your beds, now burn in them.
>>>
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Olivier Jeannel]

That is very true Stefan.
And people look at you weird just because you're not in the Maya majority...
It's like speaking of the taste of chiken inside a kfc, nobody get's a clue.

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Stefan Kubicek 
wrote:

> There are only two kinds of 3D Artists:
> Those who use Softimage, and those who never tried.
>
> The story of Softimage's demise is one of ignorance.
>
>
>
> But they don;t know for better so burning bed for them is as good as it
> gets.
> They have no idea what is a fluffy feeling of Softimage around you :(
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Gerbrand Nel  wrote:
>
>> I know many of us are forced by employers or situations to convert to
>> maya.
>> My heart goes out to you!
>> But the rest of you fuckers who choose to go to maya over all the other
>> options out there.
>> You have made your beds, now burn in them.
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Stefan Kubicek]

There are only two kinds of 3D Artists:
Those who use Softimage, and those who never tried.

The story of Softimage's demise is one of ignorance.




But they don;t know for better so burning bed for them is as good as it gets.
They have no idea what is a fluffy feeling of Softimage around you :(

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Gerbrand Nel  wrote:

I know many of us are forced by employers or situations to convert to maya.
My heart goes out to you!
But the rest of you fuckers who choose to go to maya over all the other options 
out there.
You have made your beds, now burn in them.

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Enter Reality]

I'm still astonished by the missing features in Maya in 2016...seriously,
it never gets old.
Ops sorry, I mean that those features are not missing but it's up to the
user to build their own...they give you the tools, you build what you need.

They should really use Churchill face as the new logo for Maya.

2016-01-22 8:34 GMT+01:00 Mirko Jankovic :

> But they don;t know for better so burning bed for them is as good as it
> gets.
> They have no idea what is a fluffy feeling of Softimage around you :(
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Gerbrand Nel  wrote:
>
>> I know many of us are forced by employers or situations to convert to
>> maya.
>> My heart goes out to you!
>> But the rest of you fuckers who choose to go to maya over all the other
>> options out there.
>> You have made your beds, now burn in them.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22/01/2016 03:50, Chris Johnson wrote:
>>
>> Haawesome.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:21 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Hung drawn and quartered" (as described by the dictionary) is an
>>> English medieval form of
>>>
>>> torture, visited upon heretics, the practice of which consisted of:
>>>
>>> Being dragged through the streets, broken on a wheel and made witness to
>>> your own burning
>>>
>>> viscera, before being hung by the neck. It is a gory, utterly barbaric
>>> spectacle and a perfectly
>>>
>>> adequate fate for the designer(s) responsible for the Maya rigging
>>> experience.
>>>
>>> whoever this person is, "Fire" is too good for you.
>>>
>>> This level of shit was embarrassing in 2004.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Chris Johnson |  www.someonescousin.com
>>  | 416.473.1624
>>
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Mirko Jankovic]

But they don;t know for better so burning bed for them is as good as it
gets.
They have no idea what is a fluffy feeling of Softimage around you :(

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Gerbrand Nel  wrote:

> I know many of us are forced by employers or situations to convert to maya.
> My heart goes out to you!
> But the rest of you fuckers who choose to go to maya over all the other
> options out there.
> You have made your beds, now burn in them.
>
>
>
> On 22/01/2016 03:50, Chris Johnson wrote:
>
> Haawesome.
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:21 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Hung drawn and quartered" (as described by the dictionary) is an English
>> medieval form of
>>
>> torture, visited upon heretics, the practice of which consisted of:
>>
>> Being dragged through the streets, broken on a wheel and made witness to
>> your own burning
>>
>> viscera, before being hung by the neck. It is a gory, utterly barbaric
>> spectacle and a perfectly
>>
>> adequate fate for the designer(s) responsible for the Maya rigging
>> experience.
>>
>> whoever this person is, "Fire" is too good for you.
>>
>> This level of shit was embarrassing in 2004.
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Johnson |  www.someonescousin.com |
> 416.473.1624
>
>  
> 
> 
>
>
>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Gerbrand Nel]

I know many of us are forced by employers or situations to convert to maya.
My heart goes out to you!
But the rest of you fuckers who choose to go to maya over all the other 
options out there.

You have made your beds, now burn in them.


On 22/01/2016 03:50, Chris Johnson wrote:

Haawesome.

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:21 PM, Sebastien Sterling 
mailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:


"Hung drawn and quartered" (as described by the dictionary) is an
English medieval form of

torture, visited upon heretics, the practice of which consisted of:

Being dragged through the streets, broken on a wheel and made
witness to your own burning

viscera, before being hung by the neck. It is a gory, utterly
barbaric spectacle and a perfectly

adequate fate for the designer(s) responsible for the Maya rigging
experience.

whoever this person is, "Fire" is too good for you.

This level of shit was embarrassing in 2004.




--

Chris Johnson | www.someonescousin.com 
 | 416.473.1624


 
 
 

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Mirko Jankovic]

so true so true...

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 2:50 AM, Chris Johnson 
wrote:

> Haawesome.
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:21 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Hung drawn and quartered" (as described by the dictionary) is an English
>> medieval form of
>>
>> torture, visited upon heretics, the practice of which consisted of:
>>
>> Being dragged through the streets, broken on a wheel and made witness to
>> your own burning
>>
>> viscera, before being hung by the neck. It is a gory, utterly barbaric
>> spectacle and a perfectly
>>
>> adequate fate for the designer(s) responsible for the Maya rigging
>> experience.
>>
>> whoever this person is, "Fire" is too good for you.
>>
>> This level of shit was embarrassing in 2004.
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Johnson | www.someonescousin.com | 416.473.1624
>
>  
> 
> 
>
>
>

Re: So.. Maya rigging is still a thing...

[Chris Johnson]

Haawesome.

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:21 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Hung drawn and quartered" (as described by the dictionary) is an English
> medieval form of
>
> torture, visited upon heretics, the practice of which consisted of:
>
> Being dragged through the streets, broken on a wheel and made witness to
> your own burning
>
> viscera, before being hung by the neck. It is a gory, utterly barbaric
> spectacle and a perfectly
>
> adequate fate for the designer(s) responsible for the Maya rigging
> experience.
>
> whoever this person is, "Fire" is too good for you.
>
> This level of shit was embarrassing in 2004.
>



-- 

Chris Johnson | www.someonescousin.com | 416.473.1624