Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
I've been thinking about what Charles said. In theory we could extend wordpress' trackback mechanism. I'm not sure exactly how it currently works, but we could basically just extend it to identify video enclosures and embed those in the original blog post comments area. This might be THE simplest form of encouraging cross blogging. The next step would then be to make wordpress' comments RSS support enclosures. I'm not by any means an expert on Wordpress' trackback mechanisms but these should theoretically be two very practical steps that would encourage not just leaving videos in comments, but also re-vlogging your responses. I don't think these replace the need for a good video conversation tracker, but they're certainly very pragmatic / accomplishable first steps that would immediately enliven vlogging. It occurs to me that perhaps in the future a little CSS style work might be helpful in wordpress as well. Perhaps thee so called 'video responses should be brought up along side the original video (like on youtube), so they're more visible. This would involve pulling additional content such as thumbnails from trackbacks as well. Anyway, I like this idea, it's far more practical then then having a 3rd party tracker, and even better fits much better into the SIAB project schema. Let's keep talking about it. Maybe we can get to the point where we can identify and work out some of the issues, do a little research, spec out and design some concepts. Even if this is something that SIAB devides not to pursue I'd find the process worthwhile and perhaps it would lead to other things. So... does anyone know any practical reasons why we cannot expand on trackbacks to identify videos and embed them in the comments on the original post? -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On 2/4/08, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would be nice if, for example, each WordPress (or Show in a Box) based video blog had a plugin that could show the entire threaded convo itself. That way you could see the convo no matter which video blog you were on. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 4, 2008 3:58 AM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So Jay, is this an offer to develop it? I would be very happy to contribute feedback, design, CSS, light coding / anything I can just as long as it's either a) open source, or b) I have some stake in the entity building it. I'm just sick of helping unappreciative companies / people build things that profit them and not giving anything back. The succubus is a good metaphor. yeah, lets not worry about creating a business. go into porn or the new Blackwater-style security services to make money. The primary requirements of such a system is users will be able to add RSS 2.0 / mediaRSS feeds with videos in them... it will also need to regularly crawl and DB these feeds and identify permalinks in the posts cross referencing other posts. Take a moment to check out Andreas writings on tracking conversations. He recently reminded me of his work back in 2004(!). Not sure if I was ready to grasp his ideas back then. http://www.solitude.dk/tag/conversation+tracking my experience and desire for any system screams for a visual presentation. a list of links doesnt excite me. I want to see thumbnails. i want to watch videos i the page easily. i want the page to make the videos look good. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
You know. I remember reading somewhere that, when the HTTP protocol (that the web is build upon) was being designed, they actually wanted a include a mechanism to keep track of what other pages were linking to you. If I recall correctly, the HTTP Referer and yes you're suppose to mis-spell referrer as referer in this context... was a much much weaker form of this concept. (I guess they ran out of time to do it properly.) There's a handful of protocols for handling this... TrackBack http://www.sixapart.com/pronet/docs/trackback_spec Pingback http://www.hixie.ch/specs/pingback/pingback There's also something called Refback... but I couldn't find a spec for it. In general, people seem to call this concept Linkbacks although sometime people seem to just use TrackBack and Pingback as a generic term too (that is synonymous with Linkback.) See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 5, 2008 8:34 AM, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been thinking about what Charles said. In theory we could extend wordpress' trackback mechanism. I'm not sure exactly how it currently works, but we could basically just extend it to identify video enclosures and embed those in the original blog post comments area. This might be THE simplest form of encouraging cross blogging. The next step would then be to make wordpress' comments RSS support enclosures. I'm not by any means an expert on Wordpress' trackback mechanisms but these should theoretically be two very practical steps that would encourage not just leaving videos in comments, but also re-vlogging your responses. I don't think these replace the need for a good video conversation tracker, but they're certainly very pragmatic / accomplishable first steps that would immediately enliven vlogging. It occurs to me that perhaps in the future a little CSS style work might be helpful in wordpress as well. Perhaps thee so called 'video responses should be brought up along side the original video (like on youtube), so they're more visible. This would involve pulling additional content such as thumbnails from trackbacks as well. Anyway, I like this idea, it's far more practical then then having a 3rd party tracker, and even better fits much better into the SIAB project schema. Let's keep talking about it. Maybe we can get to the point where we can identify and work out some of the issues, do a little research, spec out and design some concepts. Even if this is something that SIAB devides not to pursue I'd find the process worthwhile and perhaps it would lead to other things. So... does anyone know any practical reasons why we cannot expand on trackbacks to identify videos and embed them in the comments on the original post? -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On 2/4/08, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would be nice if, for example, each WordPress (or Show in a Box) based video blog had a plugin that could show the entire threaded convo itself. That way you could see the convo no matter which video blog you were on. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 4, 2008 3:58 AM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So Jay, is this an offer to develop it? I would be very happy to contribute feedback, design, CSS, light coding / anything I can just as long as it's either a) open source, or b) I have some stake in the entity building it. I'm just sick of helping unappreciative companies / people build things that profit them and not giving anything back. The succubus is a good metaphor. yeah, lets not worry about creating a business. go into porn or the new Blackwater-style security services to make money. The primary requirements of such a system is users will be able to add RSS 2.0 / mediaRSS feeds with videos in them... it will also need to regularly crawl and DB these feeds and identify permalinks in the posts cross referencing other posts. Take a moment to check out Andreas writings on tracking conversations. He recently reminded me of his work back in 2004(!). Not sure if I was ready to grasp his ideas back then. http://www.solitude.dk/tag/conversation+tracking my experience and desire for any system screams for a visual presentation. a list of links doesnt excite me. I want to see thumbnails. i want to watch videos i the page easily. i want the page to make the videos look good. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos:
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
Rather than extending the TrackBack or Pingback protocols, perhaps we could support the marking of the video (and being the content... and thus the thing being a video comment) with some Semantic HTML. I.e., using HTML classes, special HTML elements, and HTML rel and rev attributes to express meaning. Maybe something like... cite a rev=comment href=http://example.com/what_i_am_commenting_to;.../a embed class=comment src=.../embed /cite or... cite a rev=comment href=http://example.com/what_i_am_commenting_to;.../a a rel=enclosure class=comment href=... type=video/...img class=thumbnail src=thumbnail.jpg //a /cite ... Depending on how you're putting your video into your webpage. (I.e., embeding it or linking to it.) (Obviously we should think about the HTML constructs a little more. And see what people are already doing and accommodate them... rather than try to dictate to everyone what they have to do.) From a Show in the Box (and WordPress) point-of-view... for each of your Linkbacks... you'd just need to go parse the HTML block that was said to link to you... and look for Semantic HTML markup that would indicate a video comment. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 5, 2008 8:55 AM, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know. I remember reading somewhere that, when the HTTP protocol (that the web is build upon) was being designed, they actually wanted a include a mechanism to keep track of what other pages were linking to you. If I recall correctly, the HTTP Referer and yes you're suppose to mis-spell referrer as referer in this context... was a much much weaker form of this concept. (I guess they ran out of time to do it properly.) There's a handful of protocols for handling this... TrackBack http://www.sixapart.com/pronet/docs/trackback_spec Pingback http://www.hixie.ch/specs/pingback/pingback There's also something called Refback... but I couldn't find a spec for it. In general, people seem to call this concept Linkbacks although sometime people seem to just use TrackBack and Pingback as a generic term too (that is synonymous with Linkback.) See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 5, 2008 8:34 AM, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been thinking about what Charles said. In theory we could extend wordpress' trackback mechanism. I'm not sure exactly how it currently works, but we could basically just extend it to identify video enclosures and embed those in the original blog post comments area. This might be THE simplest form of encouraging cross blogging. The next step would then be to make wordpress' comments RSS support enclosures. I'm not by any means an expert on Wordpress' trackback mechanisms but these should theoretically be two very practical steps that would encourage not just leaving videos in comments, but also re-vlogging your responses. I don't think these replace the need for a good video conversation tracker, but they're certainly very pragmatic / accomplishable first steps that would immediately enliven vlogging. It occurs to me that perhaps in the future a little CSS style work might be helpful in wordpress as well. Perhaps thee so called 'video responses should be brought up along side the original video (like on youtube), so they're more visible. This would involve pulling additional content such as thumbnails from trackbacks as well. Anyway, I like this idea, it's far more practical then then having a 3rd party tracker, and even better fits much better into the SIAB project schema. Let's keep talking about it. Maybe we can get to the point where we can identify and work out some of the issues, do a little research, spec out and design some concepts. Even if this is something that SIAB devides not to pursue I'd find the process worthwhile and perhaps it would lead to other things. So... does anyone know any practical reasons why we cannot expand on trackbacks to identify videos and embed them in the comments on the original post? -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On 2/4/08, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would be nice if, for example, each WordPress (or Show in a Box) based video blog had a plugin that could show the entire threaded convo itself. That way you could see the convo no matter which video blog you were on. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 4, 2008 3:58 AM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
Actually I just remembered that I solved a problem similar to this when I was writing the VideoPress Video Embed plugin. The VideoPress Video Embed plugin provide code other people can use to embed your video on other people's pages. The thing is, I marked that embed code semantically with a videoembed class, so that videos could be embedded in an automated fashion. For example texarea class=videoembed...the embed code.../textarea or... div class=videoembed...the embed code.../div (This should be able to be easily added to vPIP's embed code system.) So... for a video comment... you could just look at the page that hit you with a pingback or trackback... and look for an HTML element with class=videoembed on it... and then #1 know that that page is/has a video... and #2 know how to put/embed that video on your page. Of course... with embedding... you'll have to be careful with what you allow to be embedded. But that's just a detail. (For example, you might want to not allow script tags or style tags, but allow embed and object or whatever.) See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 5, 2008 9:09 AM, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rather than extending the TrackBack or Pingback protocols, perhaps we could support the marking of the video (and being the content... and thus the thing being a video comment) with some Semantic HTML. I.e., using HTML classes, special HTML elements, and HTML rel and rev attributes to express meaning. Maybe something like... cite a rev=comment href=http://example.com/what_i_am_commenting_to;.../a embed class=comment src=.../embed /cite or... cite a rev=comment href=http://example.com/what_i_am_commenting_to;.../a a rel=enclosure class=comment href=... type=video/...img class=thumbnail src=thumbnail.jpg //a /cite ... Depending on how you're putting your video into your webpage. (I.e., embeding it or linking to it.) (Obviously we should think about the HTML constructs a little more. And see what people are already doing and accommodate them... rather than try to dictate to everyone what they have to do.) From a Show in the Box (and WordPress) point-of-view... for each of your Linkbacks... you'd just need to go parse the HTML block that was said to link to you... and look for Semantic HTML markup that would indicate a video comment. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 5, 2008 8:55 AM, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know. I remember reading somewhere that, when the HTTP protocol (that the web is build upon) was being designed, they actually wanted a include a mechanism to keep track of what other pages were linking to you. If I recall correctly, the HTTP Referer and yes you're suppose to mis-spell referrer as referer in this context... was a much much weaker form of this concept. (I guess they ran out of time to do it properly.) There's a handful of protocols for handling this... TrackBack http://www.sixapart.com/pronet/docs/trackback_spec Pingback http://www.hixie.ch/specs/pingback/pingback There's also something called Refback... but I couldn't find a spec for it. In general, people seem to call this concept Linkbacks although sometime people seem to just use TrackBack and Pingback as a generic term too (that is synonymous with Linkback.) See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 5, 2008 8:34 AM, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been thinking about what Charles said. In theory we could extend wordpress' trackback mechanism. I'm not sure exactly how it currently works, but we could basically just extend it to identify video enclosures and embed those in the original blog post comments area. This might be THE simplest form of encouraging cross blogging. The next step would then be to make wordpress' comments RSS support enclosures. I'm not by any means an expert on Wordpress' trackback mechanisms but these should theoretically be two very practical steps that would encourage not just leaving videos in comments, but also re-vlogging your responses. I don't think these replace the need for a good video conversation tracker, but they're certainly very pragmatic / accomplishable first steps that would immediately enliven vlogging. It occurs to me that perhaps in the future a little CSS style work might be helpful in wordpress as well. Perhaps thee so called 'video responses should be brought up
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
Charles, Regarding semantic markup... Indeed. That's why i made mention of XFN earlier to imply that taking the same concepts of people relations through semantics (my profiles and friends profiles and discovering connections), the same should be applied to the conversations being had among these people. If you are posting a response to another post (barring trackback/pingback/linkback), making use of semantic markup can build the graph that can be mapped out and presented logically. a simple rel or rev with url to the permalink and/or media file along with other sensible extensions is how this thing should sprout I've thought a little on what structure can be applied. When thinking about media pooling, such as the Semanal video pool its not truly about commenting, replying and responding. its about contributing and participating. But a contributed video to Semanal can also be a response to another video. So it might make sense to focus on multiple methods and means to interconnecting media and people in ways that can be trailed via web services and plugins to common platforms such as WP, Drupal etc. As far as output... how it all would look and feel. that's maybe a bit moot in the beginning stages because once the groundwork is in place, then developers and designers can have infinite ways to present the relationships and content. I think MIke pointed that out earleir in this thread or somewhere. It's all challenging and definately the look and feel discussion is important and should be happening concurrently... with people doing mockups and prototypes. But some level of samepageism needs to be set. sull
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
comments below On Feb 4, 2008 6:58 AM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So Jay, is this an offer to develop it? I would be very happy to contribute feedback, design, CSS, light coding / anything I can just as long as it's either a) open source, or b) I have some stake in the entity building it. I'm just sick of helping unappreciative companies / people build things that profit them and not giving anything back. The succubus is a good metaphor. yeah, lets not worry about creating a business. go into porn or the new Blackwater-style security services to make money. nough said The primary requirements of such a system is users will be able to add RSS 2.0 / mediaRSS feeds with videos in them... it will also need to regularly crawl and DB these feeds and identify permalinks in the posts cross referencing other posts. Take a moment to check out Andreas writings on tracking conversations. He recently reminded me of his work back in 2004(!). Not sure if I was ready to grasp his ideas back then. http://www.solitude.dk/tag/conversation+tracking my experience and desire for any system screams for a visual presentation. a list of links doesnt excite me. I want to see thumbnails. i want to watch videos i the page easily. i want the page to make the videos look good. thumbnails, embeded videos, visual presentation, that' the easy part jay. It occurs to me I have never put my CSS skills to work in this space... it's way past time I actually put my css skills to work. The big issue is this would require some significant DB work and some good programing. As I said this is nothing that hasn't already been demonstrated through vlogdir, show in the box and other projects in this space. I will happily read up on Andreas' blog posts on the subject. Raymond (dltq.org) and I had a blog at intermediated.com with a bunch of stuff on conversation tracking, but we took it offline since we hadn't posted to it in awhile. Hopefully there's an archive for it somewhere. -Mike Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
I think it would need someone who can develop it to do a protype of the idea in it's most simple form, a proof of concept. -Mike On Feb 4, 2008 11:42 AM, Steve Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldnt say it is that easy, a really intuitive system will need more thought in this area than we normally see. Sure, at its most basic its not that hard, but Id sure like to see some attempts to experiment more with how multiple videos are presented visually, see if there is room to bring a lot more fun ease to this realm. As well as plugins that would work with wordpress or whatever, Id really like to see an opensource flash video player that had this sort of stuff built into it, plus the best of features offered by sites/services like blip, youtube etc. Its a shame my flash skills are pretty bad, Id really like to help do working mockup of this stuff, but right now Id probably have to do it in mac-only quartz composer, or wmv-only silverlight, unless I can find the cash time to understand actionsript in flash better. Im not totally sure it makes sense to combine thse wishes with the stuff you are talking about, dont want to overcomplicate the mission, but it could be an opportunity to fill a few other gaps in the 'what wecan do without 3rd party hosted services' department. Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: thumbnails, embeded videos, visual presentation, that' the easy part jay. It occurs to me I have never put my CSS skills to work in this space... it's way past time I actually put my css skills to work. The big issue is this would require some significant DB work and some good programing. As I said this is nothing that hasn't already been demonstrated through vlogdir, show in the box and other projects in this space. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
So Jay, is this an offer to develop it? I would be very happy to contribute feedback, design, CSS, light coding / anything I can just as long as it's either a) open source, or b) I have some stake in the entity building it. I'm just sick of helping unappreciative companies / people build things that profit them and not giving anything back. The succubus is a good metaphor. yeah, lets not worry about creating a business. go into porn or the new Blackwater-style security services to make money. The primary requirements of such a system is users will be able to add RSS 2.0 / mediaRSS feeds with videos in them... it will also need to regularly crawl and DB these feeds and identify permalinks in the posts cross referencing other posts. Take a moment to check out Andreas writings on tracking conversations. He recently reminded me of his work back in 2004(!). Not sure if I was ready to grasp his ideas back then. http://www.solitude.dk/tag/conversation+tracking my experience and desire for any system screams for a visual presentation. a list of links doesnt excite me. I want to see thumbnails. i want to watch videos i the page easily. i want the page to make the videos look good. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
I would be nice if, for example, each WordPress (or Show in a Box) based video blog had a plugin that could show the entire threaded convo itself. That way you could see the convo no matter which video blog you were on. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 4, 2008 3:58 AM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So Jay, is this an offer to develop it? I would be very happy to contribute feedback, design, CSS, light coding / anything I can just as long as it's either a) open source, or b) I have some stake in the entity building it. I'm just sick of helping unappreciative companies / people build things that profit them and not giving anything back. The succubus is a good metaphor. yeah, lets not worry about creating a business. go into porn or the new Blackwater-style security services to make money. The primary requirements of such a system is users will be able to add RSS 2.0 / mediaRSS feeds with videos in them... it will also need to regularly crawl and DB these feeds and identify permalinks in the posts cross referencing other posts. Take a moment to check out Andreas writings on tracking conversations. He recently reminded me of his work back in 2004(!). Not sure if I was ready to grasp his ideas back then. http://www.solitude.dk/tag/conversation+tracking my experience and desire for any system screams for a visual presentation. a list of links doesnt excite me. I want to see thumbnails. i want to watch videos i the page easily. i want the page to make the videos look good. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
obviously of interest http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2008/02/urls-are-people-too.html On Feb 4, 2008 1:40 PM, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it would need someone who can develop it to do a protype of the idea in it's most simple form, a proof of concept. -Mike On Feb 4, 2008 11:42 AM, Steve Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldnt say it is that easy, a really intuitive system will need more thought in this area than we normally see. Sure, at its most basic its not that hard, but Id sure like to see some attempts to experiment more with how multiple videos are presented visually, see if there is room to bring a lot more fun ease to this realm. As well as plugins that would work with wordpress or whatever, Id really like to see an opensource flash video player that had this sort of stuff built into it, plus the best of features offered by sites/services like blip, youtube etc. Its a shame my flash skills are pretty bad, Id really like to help do working mockup of this stuff, but right now Id probably have to do it in mac-only quartz composer, or wmv-only silverlight, unless I can find the cash time to understand actionsript in flash better. Im not totally sure it makes sense to combine thse wishes with the stuff you are talking about, dont want to overcomplicate the mission, but it could be an opportunity to fill a few other gaps in the 'what wecan do without 3rd party hosted services' department. Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: thumbnails, embeded videos, visual presentation, that' the easy part jay. It occurs to me I have never put my CSS skills to work in this space... it's way past time I actually put my css skills to work. The big issue is this would require some significant DB work and some good programing. As I said this is nothing that hasn't already been demonstrated through vlogdir, show in the box and other projects in this space. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On 02/02/2008, at 8:53 PM, Jay dedman wrote: when you start talking like tis Adrian, you lose me. I am understanding the concepts of video commenting and following the threads. im in. fair enough. lose myself too. I'll think through and try to make a QT mockup to explain what I mean. I'll also try to explain (except I know nuthin' about RSS etc so will rely on Andreas, Sull, et al correcting the errors and omissions) how it might work in practice. cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
Technical question: ShowinABox + Vpip installation Got Video Archive set up Got video comments installed check Most recent WordPress install Here's the subject test page, creating an 'About' page using comments for dynamic content: http://fauxpress.tv/vlog/?page_id=2#comment-3 Will Vpip not make a popup for video comments? What do I have to do to accomplish that? Add some code to the comment template? Shall I take this thread elsewhere? I'm a WP newbie so be kind :) Great discussion - will read more o this later :) Jan On Feb 2, 2008 4:53 AM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how does a tracker help me follow conversations across different sites? that might be the wrong question. If you could map link structures between blogs then the patterns that form, and the clusters (eg your blog would be a dense node since many others link to it) provide ways of visualising and *discovering* relationships. There are mapping tools that already do this well. But if you take this down to the post level, then things get really interesting. This is because it is all about granularity, so if you can see that there is a cluster (a series of connections between parts) then you can discover new things, precisely because the structures that emerge in blogging (relations between blog posts) are emergent rather than predetermined or hierarchical. when you start talking like tis Adrian, you lose me. I am understanding the concepts of video commenting and following the threads. im in. So everyone is video commenting to each other. It's this beautiful ecology going on spread out across blogs, totally decentralized. What does Meiser's tracker service look like? I go to a page and see what? a list of videos? links? jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9 Yahoo! Groups Links -- The Faux Press - better than real http://feeds.feedburner.com/diaryofafauxjournalist - RSS http://fauxpress.blogspot.com aim=janofsound air=862.571.5334 skype=janmclaughlin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
Here's the subject test page, creating an 'About' page using comments for
dynamic content: http://fauxpress.tv/vlog/?page_id=2#comment-3
Will Vpip not make a popup for video comments? What do I have to do to
accomplish that? Add some code to the comment template?
you must have fixed it.
works for me. The video played right in the page.
David also shows you how to restrict the size of the video so videos
dont take over the page:
http://www.davidmeade.com/wordpress-plugins#videoComments
This was our preference on Semanal.
Includes several css classes so you can customize the look for your blog/theme.
* For example, the thumbnail image is given a specific class
(videoResponseThumbnail), so the maximum display dimensions for a
thumbnail could be set in css for any given wordpress theme. As an
example of this I updated the css at the demo site to limit thumbnail
display width. The max-width could similarly be set for any other
theme to a theme-appropriate size of course. Example css entry:
.videoResponseThumbnail {
max-width: 320px;
}
Jay
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
Just nowhere is it clear where that snippet should go - which css file?
style.css?
That's the right direction.
As a newbie @ WP the placement's just not jumping right out at me.
Thanks, Mr. Dedman.
And Mr. Meade for making it.
Thanks, ShowinABox. it's a kick in my artist-ass.
:)
Jan
On Feb 3, 2008 5:16 AM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here's the subject test page, creating an 'About' page using comments
for
dynamic content: http://fauxpress.tv/vlog/?page_id=2#comment-3
Will Vpip not make a popup for video comments? What do I have to do to
accomplish that? Add some code to the comment template?
you must have fixed it.
works for me. The video played right in the page.
David also shows you how to restrict the size of the video so videos
dont take over the page:
http://www.davidmeade.com/wordpress-plugins#videoComments
This was our preference on Semanal.
Includes several css classes so you can customize the look for your
blog/theme.
* For example, the thumbnail image is given a specific class
(videoResponseThumbnail), so the maximum display dimensions for a
thumbnail could be set in css for any given wordpress theme. As an
example of this I updated the css at the demo site to limit thumbnail
display width. The max-width could similarly be set for any other
theme to a theme-appropriate size of course. Example css entry:
.videoResponseThumbnail {
max-width: 320px;
}
Jay
Yahoo! Groups Links
--
The Faux Press - better than real
http://feeds.feedburner.com/diaryofafauxjournalist - RSS
http://fauxpress.blogspot.com
aim=janofsound
air=862.571.5334
skype=janmclaughlin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
Sorry, been away from my computer a few days. So Jay, is this an offer to develop it? I would be very happy to contribute feedback, design, CSS, light coding / anything I can just as long as it's either a) open source, or b) I have some stake in the entity building it. I'm just sick of helping unappreciative companies / people build things that profit them and not giving anything back. The succubus is a good metaphor. In the meantime we can continue to discuss this theoretical interface. I believe there are enough developers in this space with enough skills and that there's some unutilized infrastructure... ie. I wonder if sull would be interested in helping out and dusting off some of the old vlogdir code base. The primary requirements of such a system is users will be able to add RSS 2.0 / mediaRSS feeds with videos in them... it will also need to regularly crawl and DB these feeds and identify permalinks in the posts cross referencing other posts. Finally this service would need to identify the comments RSS feeds from these vlog feeds. Beyond that it's just basic display. A primitive display might look like this Twitervlog: A proposal, Semenal (9) - responses: RyanneEdit (8), KityKity (12), MomentShowing (1), mmeiser blog (0) SIAB vlog: announcing comment tracking (12) - responses: joevlog (0), evilvlog (3), janevlog (5) mmeiser blog: tracking video comments (3) - responses: evilvlog (1), This is basicly how techmeme and megite.com display with the exception, with the addition of the display number of comments on the posts. Just like gmail the thread with the latest activity appears on top. In this way the most active meme will always bubble up to the top. What this would accomplish would be enriching and enliving an organic and open conversational ecosystem that already exists. Thus making the vlogosphere even more highly visual, decentralized, and open... instead of us always falling back on closed ecosystems like twitter, yahoo groups, and youtube. This is basically what services like techmeme.com do for the open blogosphere, but of course promoting the open vlogosphere. Of course this is just round one. Unlike Techmeme and Megite.com which are based SOLEY on general activity... I would next create a my tracker feature whereby people signup and favorite / import their subscroptions and thus track THEIR favorite vlogs instead of some generalized / popularized vlogosphere. In this way instead of displaying simply the most popular threads in the vlogosphere... (f*ck popularity contests)... it would display what's being talked about amongst MY friends / MY favorite vlogs. In this way it would transcend the same old popularity contest of sites like techeme, megit.com, digg, youtube, and pretty much every damn site and service their is.. and become a PERSONAL COMMUNICATIONS tool, a tool for tracking open media rich conversations amongst friends. Future versions might then add features like more robust RSS, displaying videos embeded inline, auto-emailed responses and so on to encourage further intermediaries. I imagine one day, as federated ID systems like OpenID become standards on blog platforms... you might not only be able to track discussions across your favorite videoblogs... but track the actual comments of your friends on these blog posts as well. In other words since people would be using the same OpenID no matter what blog they were commenting on the tracker would be able to identify the ID's of you and your friends and thus track your specific friends comments on blog posts. What's more... since you can manage your OpenID... you can actually have multiple idenities, even anonymous identities and thus managing your level of privacy while still participating in the great debate in an open manner. A rudimentary example of what this advanced tracker might look like follows == begin advanced tracker example == Twitervlog: A proposal, Semenal - comments by your friends: mmeiser, jaydedman, ryanne, FauxPress, and 8 others - blog posts by your friends: RyanneEdit (8), KityKity (12), MomentShowing (1), mmeiser blog (1) and 8 others SIAB vlog: Announcing comment tracking - comments by your friends: lriene, AdrianM, Sull and 8 others - blog posts by your friends: joevlog (0), evilvlog (3), janevlog (5) mmeiser blog: tracking video comments (3) - comments by friends: Jan of FauxPress, ryannedit, jaydedman - blog posts by your friends: evilvlog (1), == end advanced tracker example == In this scenario the threads themselves are determined by vlogs YOU have subscribed to... and the comments and blog posts shown are also vlogs YOU have subscribed to... with the addition of numbers representing additional comments or posts from others you have NOT subscribed to or friended. Ok! So there we have it! That's the basic gist. A media rich converation tracker for an open network of blogs and potentiall friends with OpenID's. My suggestion
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
comments below On 2/2/08, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how does a tracker help me follow conversations across different sites? that might be the wrong question. If you could map link structures between blogs then the patterns that form, and the clusters (eg your blog would be a dense node since many others link to it) provide ways of visualising and *discovering* relationships. There are mapping tools that already do this well. But if you take this down to the post level, then things get really interesting. This is because it is all about granularity, so if you can see that there is a cluster (a series of connections between parts) then you can discover new things, precisely because the structures that emerge in blogging (relations between blog posts) are emergent rather than predetermined or hierarchical. when you start talking like tis Adrian, you lose me. I am understanding the concepts of video commenting and following the threads. im in. So everyone is video commenting to each other. It's this beautiful ecology going on spread out across blogs, totally decentralized. What does Meiser's tracker service look like? I go to a page and see what? a list of videos? links? While I love reading Adrian... I must agree that bit is a little hard to follow. I hesitate to do a mockup... because quite frankly the concept is simple enough it should be explainable at this point in plain text. In fact I find if something isn't explainable in plain text then you haven't simplified it enough. That said... maybe I should do some type of mockup at some point, but only if it's understood and we're ready to move on to the next step. Take a look at my email response and let me know if you still don't get it. I'll do what i can. The key is that we need to make the open vlogosphere compete with such closed services as youtube. In order to do this we're going to need development not only on the hosting platforms itself... ie. wordpress... but we're also going to need development on the consumption end this could be trackers, desktop video aggregators, search, etc. SIAB and others projects and services have done a good job of doing what they can on the hosting side. Miro, Fireant and others have done a nice job on improving interfaces for simply watching videos. The hole right now is in services that make the conversations happening in this open space easily trackable and more visible. These services are going to have to be destination sevices (websites), but they can also be open source software so anyone can make an alternative destination / website. All this is to say we cannot solve the problems of the vlogosphere by focusing on the host alone. Good, high visiblity trackers will promote our agenda to invigorate this open ecosystem as oposed to it collapsing onto youtube's and facebooks. Many have put it this way. Facebook is not a social network the INTERNET is a social network. Kazzaa and Bittorrent are not file sharing network, the internet is a file sharing network. By pulling stuff out of these darkents and out into the open we can spur much greater innovation. We have to continue to drag the conversation out of the darknets... wether that be dragging media out of P2P markets and onto the open web... or dragging social ties out of proprietary services like Facebook. Peace, -Mike jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
XO - that's what I was looking for Ms. Colan.
:)
Jan
On Feb 3, 2008 1:34 PM, Cheryl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jan,
If you're using the Show in a Box variant where you can go to
Presentation Theme Options and select a stylesheet from a dropdown
menu, then don't put the CSS snippet into styles.css
Instead go to your theme folder. Inside there will be a styles folder
containing all the styles from that dropdown list. Add the snippet to
the one you chose - put it anyplace that makes sense to you. I usually
add new styles at the bottom. Looks like you're using Tomato so you'd
put the CSS snippet into tomato.css.
There's a google group for Show in a Box tech help (for your
reference): http://groups.google.com/group/show-in-a-box/
Cheryl
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jan McLaughlin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just nowhere is it clear where that snippet should go - which css file?
style.css?
That's the right direction.
As a newbie @ WP the placement's just not jumping right out at me.
Thanks, Mr. Dedman.
And Mr. Meade for making it.
Thanks, ShowinABox. it's a kick in my artist-ass.
:)
Jan
On Feb 3, 2008 5:16 AM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here's the subject test page, creating an 'About' page using
comments
for
dynamic content: http://fauxpress.tv/vlog/?page_id=2#comment-3
Will Vpip not make a popup for video comments? What do I have
to do to
accomplish that? Add some code to the comment template?
you must have fixed it.
works for me. The video played right in the page.
David also shows you how to restrict the size of the video so videos
dont take over the page:
http://www.davidmeade.com/wordpress-plugins#videoComments
This was our preference on Semanal.
Includes several css classes so you can customize the look for your
blog/theme.
* For example, the thumbnail image is given a specific class
(videoResponseThumbnail), so the maximum display dimensions for a
thumbnail could be set in css for any given wordpress theme. As an
example of this I updated the css at the demo site to limit thumbnail
display width. The max-width could similarly be set for any other
theme to a theme-appropriate size of course. Example css entry:
.videoResponseThumbnail {
max-width: 320px;
}
Jay
Yahoo! Groups Links
--
The Faux Press - better than real
http://feeds.feedburner.com/diaryofafauxjournalist - RSS
http://fauxpress.blogspot.com
aim=janofsound
air=862.571.5334
skype=janmclaughlin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
--
The Faux Press - better than real
http://feeds.feedburner.com/diaryofafauxjournalist - RSS
http://fauxpress.blogspot.com
aim=janofsound
air=862.571.5334
skype=janmclaughlin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
how does a tracker help me follow conversations across different sites? that might be the wrong question. If you could map link structures between blogs then the patterns that form, and the clusters (eg your blog would be a dense node since many others link to it) provide ways of visualising and *discovering* relationships. There are mapping tools that already do this well. But if you take this down to the post level, then things get really interesting. This is because it is all about granularity, so if you can see that there is a cluster (a series of connections between parts) then you can discover new things, precisely because the structures that emerge in blogging (relations between blog posts) are emergent rather than predetermined or hierarchical. when you start talking like tis Adrian, you lose me. I am understanding the concepts of video commenting and following the threads. im in. So everyone is video commenting to each other. It's this beautiful ecology going on spread out across blogs, totally decentralized. What does Meiser's tracker service look like? I go to a page and see what? a list of videos? links? jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On 01/02/2008, at 4:33 PM, Mike Meiser wrote: I'll have to read up on your word to get your meaning... But I disagree that when we talk about video commenting we're ONLY talking about putting videos into comments on people's blogs... I would suggest we instead include vlog to vlog comments in this general discussion of video commenting... and drag it out into the open. yeah, that's a much better way of thinking about it. in the same way that we don't call one blog post writing about someone else's blog post and linking to it 'blog commenting' but just blogging, so it should be for video blogging. cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On 01/02/2008, at 4:33 PM, Mike Meiser wrote: we could right a book on this subject, I feel it would be more productive for me to mine for your past comments... are they on here or on one of your blogs. hi Mike some are at http://vogmae.net.au/drupal/thinking but this site is still being put together so doesn't yet have the lot. But I also have a bad habit of talking about a lot of this stuff at conferences or with my peers and then sort of thinking that it is published, or just not worth putting out there. general blog comments going back to 03 are probably under http://vogmae.net.au/vlog/?cat=6 cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
yeah that would be cool. shiftspace have an api so perhaps it's something that can be done now/future, not sure. they can replace images already so the view of the page via shiftspace is different to the real page. adding layers/dimensions to the web. like a stack. perhaps a layer to replace your video over all/part of it so you could quote it that way, allow part of the original to display. perhaps I gave the wrong impression - it's not just a notes/stickies plugin though that's one feature. the notes are put into a console at bottom of the screen and people can vote on shifting them up/down in the list and mark as spam etc. they display on the page when u select them they have a grant available to encourage people/projects to use it/develop more tools. could be of interest to the devs here. On Feb 1, 2008 5:37 AM, Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in the hypertext development community there was an effort to make (well, they did make) systems that let you annotate any other webpage and these annotations would be stored centrally to be distributed to others who used the service. The point was to add another layer on top of published page, much like how you make annotations when reading a book, but of course to share these. thinking out of left field, this would be really cool using flash or QT as you could have a layer (toggle its visibility) which could show such annotations, eg othre videos elsewhere that refer to this particular video. Could be time based too... -- http://www.aliak.com
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
ShiftSpace is interesting, thanks for the headsUp. On Feb 1, 2008 10:13 AM, Kath O'Donnell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah that would be cool. shiftspace have an api so perhaps it's something that can be done now/future, not sure. they can replace images already so the view of the page via shiftspace is different to the real page. adding layers/dimensions to the web. like a stack. perhaps a layer to replace your video over all/part of it so you could quote it that way, allow part of the original to display. perhaps I gave the wrong impression - it's not just a notes/stickies plugin though that's one feature. the notes are put into a console at bottom of the screen and people can vote on shifting them up/down in the list and mark as spam etc. they display on the page when u select them they have a grant available to encourage people/projects to use it/develop more tools. could be of interest to the devs here. On Feb 1, 2008 5:37 AM, Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in the hypertext development community there was an effort to make (well, they did make) systems that let you annotate any other webpage and these annotations would be stored centrally to be distributed to others who used the service. The point was to add another layer on top of published page, much like how you make annotations when reading a book, but of course to share these. thinking out of left field, this would be really cool using flash or QT as you could have a layer (toggle its visibility) which could show such annotations, eg othre videos elsewhere that refer to this particular video. Could be time based too... -- http://www.aliak.com
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
it's not necessary that comments be posted directly TO the comment box on a blog post. I personally feel that the best potential of all is to track and display the back and forth BETWEEN blogs /vlogs using permalink tracking. Joe vlogs -- Mary vlogs about Joe's post linking directly to Joe's vlog post -- Joe responds on his vlog linking to Mary's post. Then via various third party systems and track-back mechanisms this conversation becomes visible... trackable... and even RSS subscribe-able... sort of like a tag meme... but much more natural. All that's MISSING from this equation is the tracker to make this dialogue that's already happening visible. H.so are you saying we need some service to do track these conversations? tell me how it works from a user's perspective. how does a tracker help me follow conversations across different sites? Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
I would imagine you would see the threaded conversation all on one page. (Maybe including the whole message... or with links to the messages.) -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 1, 2008 8:25 AM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it's not necessary that comments be posted directly TO the comment box on a blog post. I personally feel that the best potential of all is to track and display the back and forth BETWEEN blogs /vlogs using permalink tracking. Joe vlogs -- Mary vlogs about Joe's post linking directly to Joe's vlog post -- Joe responds on his vlog linking to Mary's post. Then via various third party systems and track-back mechanisms this conversation becomes visible... trackable... and even RSS subscribe-able... sort of like a tag meme... but much more natural. All that's MISSING from this equation is the tracker to make this dialogue that's already happening visible. H.so are you saying we need some service to do track these conversations? tell me how it works from a user's perspective. how does a tracker help me follow conversations across different sites? Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On 02/02/2008, at 3:25 AM, Jay dedman wrote: H.so are you saying we need some service to do track these conversations? tell me how it works from a user's perspective. yes how does a tracker help me follow conversations across different sites? that might be the wrong question. If you could map link structures between blogs then the patterns that form, and the clusters (eg your blog would be a dense node since many others link to it) provide ways of visualising and *discovering* relationships. There are mapping tools that already do this well. But if you take this down to the post level, then things get really interesting. This is because it is all about granularity, so if you can see that there is a cluster (a series of connections between parts) then you can discover new things, precisely because the structures that emerge in blogging (relations between blog posts) are emergent rather than predetermined or hierarchical. If we could quote video, or refer in video to video, then you could do the same thing in video posts. So my video post which refers to your post, and Sull's, and Andreas', and is also refered to by 3 other people, well all these linsk would be available. I could then map these patterns (zooming up and down), and I could follow them as links just like the old fashioned web link surfing way. A tracker helps because it makes visible these connections. t/his is one of the biggest achievements of blogging - trackback. HTTP as a protocol sucks at letting you know who connects (links) to your content. I know who my pages link to - I wrote the links, but how do I 'see' the links in to my page (once again as Mike pointed out, Ted Nelson saw and described all this in the mid 60s). Trackback partly solves this, but if a link comes from a site that doesn't support trackback (any site that isn't a specific type of blog) then I still don't really know about it (though I can use Google to find links but that's a very slow way of going about something). The next step, in relation to text, is to apply a thesaurus, since then you can use link anchors (what text hte link is from) to get a metric for how 'abstract' the connections are, where a good and simple rule of thumb is that the more abstract the link anchor then generally the more theoretical or abstract (or 'high level') the conversation. Eg a links that keep going from words like idea' and 'epistemology' suggest a different sort of discussion and connection than links from home', 'their blog' etc. YOu can also use the link text to build tag clouds (sometimes I really should be snaffled up by some start up) cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
It's included in wordpress feeds already. - but I dont think it is in blogger feeds On Jan 31, 2008 1:12 AM, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool. Example of a comment feed reference from sull's blip feed: http://sull.blip.tv/rss item guid isPermaLink=false9856168E-BE0C-11DC-A000-B09E966E5011/guid linkhttp://blip.tv/file/586535/link titleWhat is it that's driving this?/title [...] wfw:commentRsshttp://blip.tv/comments/?attached_to=post592232amp;skin=rss/wfw:commentRss commentshttp://blip.tv/file/586535/comments /item wfw, as in wfw:comments, stands for well formatted web spec is as mentioned here: http://wellformedweb.org/news/wfw_namespace_elements/ comments being part of the original RSS 2.0 spec. It appears to be the url to the page where you can make a comment. So... Basically we have the start of a potential working ecosystem. The next question is who else supports this? Wordpress? Blogger? Moveable type? Feedburner? If not already a part of Wordpress could it be implimented with a plugin or added to an existing plugin from SIAB or that which david meade just created? Will have to do more research. -Mike On Jan 31, 2008 12:16 AM, Sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and i just checked blip feeds and... good on them ;) it's in there. On Jan 31, 2008 12:10 AM, Sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For starters, their should be wide adoption of WFW - Well-Formed Web wfw:commentRss namespace element. http://wellformedweb.org/news/wfw_namespace_elements/ http://www.sellsbrothers.com/spout/default.aspx?content=archive.htm#exposingRssComments On Jan 30, 2008 10:56 PM, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not that complex though to track comments. You follow the permalink. You parse the page one time... you look for the comment RSS most platforms have them now. You display all or part of the comments in the aggregator... maybe as trackbacks, you just take them into account in the aggregator as ranking info, display them with the other comments and on site activity... maybe you simply say 8 more comments at joevlog.com. This last idea in particular is a personal favorite of mine because it simultaneously drives traffic back to the vlog while adding value to the aggregator. There in fact may be packages / API's out by now on for tracking blog comments... there are certainly meta standards, at least one documented micoformat for comments. There are of course potential partners. I've chatted with the guys at co.mments.com. They're huge potential for them to licensce their technology. It actually makes much more sense then running a single webservice for them... because obviously mefeedia and other specialized aggregatory communities don't compete directly or even indirectly. But... partnership is probably not necessary... because like i said... comments are very widely standardized around blogging packages these days. Of course there's still cooler things... there's tracking... which posts/ blogs are linking in the content to which posts. It's meme tracking... like techmeme.com and megit.com. Tracking the conversations in the vlogosphere. All that data is already in mefeedia's DB... all that need be done is to process it. The combination of these two types of tracking could light a fire under the vlogosphere and of course it's implied that it'd light a fire under the webservice that did such a thing just like it's done for companies like techmeme and dozens of others. What's more... it's organic unlike digg... and embraces an open ecosystem unlike youtube. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On Jan 30, 2008 9:44 PM, Frank Sinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're working on putting technology in place - a new Video Search Engine - that will hopefully enable the tracking of video responses across vlogs. The problem is extremely complex as there are many variations on formatting, blog post URLs, embedding, etc. It will be interesting to do some small experiments such as apply the technology to a hot conversation that becomes threaded / moves in many different directions. Regards, Frank http://www.mefeedia.com - Discover the Video Web --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sweet work David, Jay and everyone who worked on it. Now all we need is 3rd party services, i.e. aggregators and meme trackers to start tracking video comments as well as simply RSS feeds. This has long been one of the biggest failings of aggregators. it' not just about the RSS... it's about the
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
Blogger just recently allowed commentors to check a box fo follow comments via email. Havent any idea what you guys' are taling about, but... I love it when the coders get all excited. :) Jan On Jan 31, 2008 7:22 AM, David Meade [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's included in wordpress feeds already. - but I dont think it is in blogger feeds On Jan 31, 2008 1:12 AM, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool. Example of a comment feed reference from sull's blip feed: http://sull.blip.tv/rss item guid isPermaLink=false9856168E-BE0C-11DC-A000-B09E966E5011/guid linkhttp://blip.tv/file/586535/link titleWhat is it that's driving this?/title [...] wfw:commentRss http://blip.tv/comments/?attached_to=post592232amp;skin=rss /wfw:commentRss commentshttp://blip.tv/file/586535/comments /item wfw, as in wfw:comments, stands for well formatted web spec is as mentioned here: http://wellformedweb.org/news/wfw_namespace_elements/ comments being part of the original RSS 2.0 spec. It appears to be the url to the page where you can make a comment. So... Basically we have the start of a potential working ecosystem. The next question is who else supports this? Wordpress? Blogger? Moveable type? Feedburner? If not already a part of Wordpress could it be implimented with a plugin or added to an existing plugin from SIAB or that which david meade just created? Will have to do more research. -Mike On Jan 31, 2008 12:16 AM, Sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and i just checked blip feeds and... good on them ;) it's in there. On Jan 31, 2008 12:10 AM, Sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For starters, their should be wide adoption of WFW - Well-Formed Web wfw:commentRss namespace element. http://wellformedweb.org/news/wfw_namespace_elements/ http://www.sellsbrothers.com/spout/default.aspx?content=archive.htm#exposingRssComments On Jan 30, 2008 10:56 PM, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not that complex though to track comments. You follow the permalink. You parse the page one time... you look for the comment RSS most platforms have them now. You display all or part of the comments in the aggregator... maybe as trackbacks, you just take them into account in the aggregator as ranking info, display them with the other comments and on site activity... maybe you simply say 8 more comments at joevlog.com. This last idea in particular is a personal favorite of mine because it simultaneously drives traffic back to the vlog while adding value to the aggregator. There in fact may be packages / API's out by now on for tracking blog comments... there are certainly meta standards, at least one documented micoformat for comments. There are of course potential partners. I've chatted with the guys at co.mments.com. They're huge potential for them to licensce their technology. It actually makes much more sense then running a single webservice for them... because obviously mefeedia and other specialized aggregatory communities don't compete directly or even indirectly. But... partnership is probably not necessary... because like i said... comments are very widely standardized around blogging packages these days. Of course there's still cooler things... there's tracking... which posts/ blogs are linking in the content to which posts. It's meme tracking... like techmeme.com and megit.com. Tracking the conversations in the vlogosphere. All that data is already in mefeedia's DB... all that need be done is to process it. The combination of these two types of tracking could light a fire under the vlogosphere and of course it's implied that it'd light a fire under the webservice that did such a thing just like it's done for companies like techmeme and dozens of others. What's more... it's organic unlike digg... and embraces an open ecosystem unlike youtube. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On Jan 30, 2008 9:44 PM, Frank Sinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're working on putting technology in place - a new Video Search Engine - that will hopefully enable the tracking of video responses across vlogs. The problem is extremely complex as there are many variations on formatting, blog post URLs, embedding, etc. It will be interesting to do some small experiments such as apply the technology to a hot conversation that becomes threaded / moves in many different directions. Regards, Frank http://www.mefeedia.com - Discover the Video Web --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Mike Meiser
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
YouTube actually has a great API for asking for all comments, including video comments, for a video. It uses GData. Does anyone know if Blip has a similar API? I have seen that Blip offers comments RSS for each post, but most of the time the conversations are happening at the vlogs, which have varying support for Comments RSS. It is quite a large engineering effort. I think the biggest challenge is getting creators to actually make video comments. Youtube has the only video commenting system Ive really seen used. Most times though, people are just linking to their own videos so they can ride out the popularity of someone else's video. Youtube is the the city wall where everyone wheatpastes their flyers. I still find that most of us are creating self-contained little movies. As a community I dont think we've agreed on Fair Use in our own videos. Let's forget Hollywwod for a moment and see if we cant have consensus among ourselves. Can we use use each others video, like we currently use each other's text posts to have a conversation? Im hoping David's video commenting plugin...and the year long Semanal project help explore people posting videos in the comments of a single blog post. Then we can see about Meiser's vision for aggregated video comments. we need concrete examples to play with. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
Asked a slightly different way - what's the difference? What's the difference between someone's text-based words and someone's video-based words? I'm thinking you should be able to pull quotes from both. David On Jan 31, 2008 11:34 AM, Steve Garfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been cautious in this area.. It's a good question. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can we use use each others video, like we currently use each other's text posts to have a conversation? -- David King davidleeking.com - blog http://davidleeking.com/etc - videoblog [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
From the archives (back in 2005), here's one possible interface for displaying video quotes: http://www.solitude.dk/archives/20051013-0025 It has a big quote mark and a link back to the original. Made with this: http://www.solitude.dk/archives/linkubator/ (choose the 'video quote' option) - Andreas Den 31.01.2008 kl. 12:37 skrev David King [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Asked a slightly different way - what's the difference? What's the difference between someone's text-based words and someone's video-based words? I'm thinking you should be able to pull quotes from both. David On Jan 31, 2008 11:34 AM, Steve Garfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been cautious in this area.. It's a good question. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can we use use each others video, like we currently use each other's text posts to have a conversation? -- Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen http://www.solitude.dk/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
My experience in this realm has been mixed. All along the spectrum from ecstasy to rage. Sigh. Jan On Jan 31, 2008 12:34 PM, Steve Garfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been cautious in this area.. It's a good question. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can we use use each others video, like we currently use each other's text posts to have a conversation? Yahoo! Groups Links -- The Faux Press - better than real http://feeds.feedburner.com/diaryofafauxjournalist - RSS http://fauxpress.blogspot.com aim=janofsound air=862.571.5334 skype=janmclaughlin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
Asked a slightly different way - what's the difference? What's the difference between someone's text-based words and someone's video-based words? I'm thinking you should be able to pull quotes from both. this would be my instinct as well. But the newspaper/book industry welcomes others to quote from their commercial work with attribution, so text bloggers had a positive model to follow. We videobloggers have Hollywood (MPAA) and the music industry (RIAA) as examples for best practices. They have spent millions making sure we know that any use of work is piracy, illegal, walled garden, no. So of course we seem to view our own video work this way. But we dont have to. I know many of us practice Creative Commons which is awesome. But I think a community consensus for Fair Use when having conversations/debate is important. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments [fwd to semanal list]
fwding to semanal list - I like your idea Jay - what if for week6 (or choose another week) we all post a video, but we also have to post a video comment to at least one person who's posted that week. or use the comment video as your weekly post if you don't want/are too busy to do 2 videos. so we get into the practice of doing it. and can iron out any tweaks that might be needed as there'll be a larger number of people trying it who are on different computers/have different issues. could be a good sample population, plus it'll be cool to reply in video - community building exercise etc. kath VGG list can prob drop off this tangential thread if not on topic On Jan 31, 2008 7:28 PM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the biggest challenge is getting creators to actually make video comments. Youtube has the only video commenting system Ive really seen used. Most times though, people are just linking to their own videos so they can ride out the popularity of someone else's video. Youtube is the the city wall where everyone wheatpastes their flyers. I still find that most of us are creating self-contained little movies. As a community I dont think we've agreed on Fair Use in our own videos. Let's forget Hollywwod for a moment and see if we cant have consensus among ourselves. Can we use use each others video, like we currently use each other's text posts to have a conversation? Im hoping David's video commenting plugin...and the year long Semanal project help explore people posting videos in the comments of a single blog post. Then we can see about Meiser's vision for aggregated video comments. we need concrete examples to play with. -- http://www.aliak.com
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
From the archives (back in 2005), here's one possible interface for displaying video quotes: http://www.solitude.dk/archives/20051013-0025 It has a big quote mark and a link back to the original. Made with this: http://www.solitude.dk/archives/linkubator/ (choose the 'video quote' option) yes. I remember Andreas showing off Linkubator at Vloggercue in 2005. http://vloggercue.blogspot.com/2005/07/summer-of-vlog-what-when-and-where.html he made a really nice interface. I think there were a couple reasons why it wasnt used much. --we werent ready yet. most of us were happy making our own self-contained videos. (youtube hadnt even really happened yet!) --Linkubator uses SMIL which seems to slow things done. i know I have never been a fan. i have no real good reason why not. --i think many of us like to edit quotes INSIDE our own videos. i dont want the quote to be self-contained though obviously this is the more elegant way. again, I think we're just getting to the point where having a video conversation might be possible. someone starts with a video. then others jump in and ad their own videos. there is a comment feed to follow if you want to see it as one big video. Look at http://semanal.org/2008/01/27/week-5-2008-video-commenting-is-live/. No one is really discussing a specific topic, but you can see how a conversation could develop inn one place...while all the videos are distributed. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
Agreed - a community needs to have a standard of practice in order to, well... practice! And CC seems to be the way to go. The hard part is this: videobloggers come in all different varieties. Some are posting thoughts and conversation-starters (sorta like text blogs). Others think of their posts more like an online version of a tv show. And then everything in-between. How do you get consensus on that? Where do you even start (well, besides discussing it here - that's probably a good start)? Good thinking, either way! david (who has to go teach an intro to facebook class for some library managers now) On Jan 31, 2008 1:28 PM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Asked a slightly different way - what's the difference? What's the difference between someone's text-based words and someone's video-based words? I'm thinking you should be able to pull quotes from both. this would be my instinct as well. But the newspaper/book industry welcomes others to quote from their commercial work with attribution, so text bloggers had a positive model to follow. We videobloggers have Hollywood (MPAA) and the music industry (RIAA) as examples for best practices. They have spent millions making sure we know that any use of work is piracy, illegal, walled garden, no. So of course we seem to view our own video work this way. But we dont have to. I know many of us practice Creative Commons which is awesome. But I think a community consensus for Fair Use when having conversations/debate is important. Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9 -- David King davidleeking.com - blog http://davidleeking.com/etc - videoblog [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
Agreed - a community needs to have a standard of practice in order to, well... practice! And CC seems to be the way to go. The hard part is this: videobloggers come in all different varieties. Some are posting thoughts and conversation-starters (sorta like text blogs). Others think of their posts more like an online version of a tv show. And then everything in-between. But to take the newspaper comparison further, the NY Times is fully copyrighted...but you can still quote their text in your own work without permission. So i think CC licenses is totally important...but can we have Fair Use if video is being used for criticism, debate, or conversation? Jay -- http://jaydedman.com 917 371 6790 Professional: http://ryanishungry.com Personal: http://momentshowing.net Photos: http://flickr.com/photos/jaydedman/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/jaydedman RSS: http://tinyurl.com/yqgdt9
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
something like disqus.com, which deems it important to allow data export and not be a walled garden using yours and your commenters content. On Jan 31, 2008 5:01 PM, Steve Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So maybe a part of effective conversations, comments, communication, is bridging the gap between the shared space of groups, forums, etc, with the personal space of people's own blogs?
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
or something like ShiftSpace? http://shiftspace.org/screencasts/intro/ has a demo video. a metadata layer above webpages - the trails sound interesting. how you can link up conversations across the metaverse. I think they're at transmediale atm. there's a few examples on the site. On Feb 1, 2008 12:07 AM, Sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: something like disqus.com, which deems it important to allow data export and not be a walled garden using yours and your commenters content. On Jan 31, 2008 5:01 PM, Steve Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So maybe a part of effective conversations, comments, communication, is bridging the gap between the shared space of groups, forums, etc, with the personal space of people's own blogs? -- http://www.aliak.com
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
hi all On 01/02/2008, at 7:48 AM, Jay dedman wrote: So i think CC licenses is totally important...but can we have Fair Use if video is being used for criticism, debate, or conversation? fair use is very weak. As far as I'm aware it doesn't formally exist here in Australia as a right, more a convention, and outside of edu contexts and a very informal practice by news organisations (where there are informal practices about quoting) you're on thin ice :-) CC really helps here, without it you don't have much in the way of rights. In addition there are precedents about around what you actually quote. Years ago someone famously lost a case where they used a very small part of Casablanca but the studio won because they argued that while the excerpt was very brief it was the most famous moment in the film. cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On 01/02/2008, at 4:28 AM, Jay dedman wrote: I think the biggest challenge is getting creators to actually make video comments. Youtube has the only video commenting system Ive really seen used. Most times though, people are just linking to their own videos so they can ride out the popularity of someone else's video. Youtube is the the city wall where everyone wheatpastes their flyers. I know some here are unfamiliar with my short tempered rants on this particular subject, but Jay is 100% on the money. The web works by its porousness and permeability. Small bits and the rest of it. Video still flies in the face of this. Sorry for dot points, I'm supposed to be working for my employer at the moment 1. why can't I use QT plugin to copy and paste a part of your video into my QT player? (just as I can copy text straight out of a web browser). 2. why treat video as little closed media objects online? 3. for example if you have a credit sequence, but I quote the middle of your video, what point is your credit sequence? 4. we do this with text every day. just look at what my email client has done with Jay's email as an everyday matter of course: quoted it, changed it tyopographically to indicate this, and let me add to it. It retains his name, and clearly indicates that some of the text here comes from somewhere else. I still haven't seen much that does this for video. 5. blogs solved all of this for online writing with permalinks, a post structure, trackback. I don't think much of comments. They seem old skool to me. I know I love to get 'em, but that's just vanity. Comments are aggregating others views to my own identity, I much prefer people to write something in their blog and link to me - so I rate trackbacks way above comments (which is why every now and then over 8 years I've had comments on, comments off, etc). So while video comments are interesting, I think a much more interesting (and harder thing) to do would be to quote some of your video in my video and for your video or video blog post, to know about this (video trackback) so it is as much of an almost palimpsest (wrong word but suggestive) as a good blog with its quotes, links out, links in, etc... cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
you should but technically one is trivial computationally the other much more complicated. Also text has clear standards. Quote marks, standardised referencing systems to indicate source, right down to year, page, and object, etc. There is no way to easily indicate this inside video. In addition text is just different to video, they're different meaning systems and operate quite differently and so it means something different to quote text to quoting image and moving image. They're not the same things - that's one reason why things got quite intense around the lumiere discussion. It isnt' helped that while people treat their writing, eg email, as more or less transient and minor (scraps if you like) we still treat our video as whole, proper, mine, and so deserving of respect or consideration. We just treat them as whole finished things which we don't really let go of, whereas words are just, well, an ascii wake while we flow through the web. On 01/02/2008, at 4:37 AM, David King wrote: Asked a slightly different way - what's the difference? What's the difference between someone's text-based words and someone's video- based words? I'm thinking you should be able to pull quotes from both. cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
in australia it is more or less a 'gentlemen's agreement' (and I'm pretty sure this is how it gets described) which every now and then ruffles feathers when one network is perceived to use too much of someone else's footage or similar. there is no licence, no money, just a sort of mutual agreement which recognises that they all benefit from this. For some events here (not sure which ones) networks might even deliberately share footage so instead of 3 crews to one event one goes on the understanding material is made available to each. On 01/02/2008, at 8:40 AM, Steve Watkins wrote: Anybody know what rules live TV news stations play by? I remember seeing a programme about Al Jazeera years ago, and they were watching other stations rebroadcasting their live pictures (probably of the bombing of Bahgdad), and were trying to frustrate this by cutting to their anchor. There are plenty of times we see other networks graphics on such things, some try to cover it with monster sized tickers or bugs, and now I always wonder if theyve licensed the content or are making use of some 'right' to reshow it, or just chancing their luck. cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
hi all Does anyone remember that thing from years ago that was like webpage graffiti? you could leave notes on webpages, and anyone with the plugin could see the notes. I remember that whitehouse.gov got more or less buried under the things... On 01/02/2008, at 10:12 AM, Kath O'Donnell wrote: or something like ShiftSpace? http://shiftspace.org/screencasts/intro/ has a demo video. a metadata layer above webpages - the trails sound interesting. how you can link up conversations across the metaverse. I think they're at transmediale atm. there's a few examples on the site cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On Jan 31, 2008, at 7:14 PM, Adrian Miles wrote: Does anyone remember that thing from years ago that was like webpage graffiti? you could leave notes on webpages, and anyone with the plugin could see the notes. I remember that whitehouse.gov got more or less buried under the things... are you referring to http://www.mystickies.com/ ? i think there are several services like this now (sort of defeats the point) i recall a firefox plugin always been surprised that this did not take off more. weren't there libel issues in the early days that dampened this a bit? markus [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On 01/02/2008, at 2:23 PM, Markus Sandy wrote: are you referring to http://www.mystickies.com/ ? i think there are several services like this now (sort of defeats the point) i recall a firefox plugin always been surprised that this did not take off more. weren't there libel issues in the early days that dampened this a bit? hi Markus yep, that's them :-) in the hypertext development community there was an effort to make (well, they did make) systems that let you annotate any other webpage and these annotations would be stored centrally to be distributed to others who used the service. The point was to add another layer on top of published page, much like how you make annotations when reading a book, but of course to share these. thinking out of left field, this would be really cool using flash or QT as you could have a layer (toggle its visibility) which could show such annotations, eg othre videos elsewhere that refer to this particular video. Could be time based too... cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On Jan 31, 2008 3:48 PM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed - a community needs to have a standard of practice in order to, well... practice! And CC seems to be the way to go. The hard part is this: videobloggers come in all different varieties. Some are posting thoughts and conversation-starters (sorta like text blogs). Others think of their posts more like an online version of a tv show. And then everything in-between. But to take the newspaper comparison further, the NY Times is fully copyrighted...but you can still quote their text in your own work without permission. Ding. Ding. Ding. (pardon the bad rhetorical device, jay's words speaketh to me. :) Video has never been something accessible to the masses as a means of communication until very recently. (check out the history of the mass democratization of photography for parallels on how the video space will/is evolving) It would seem obvious that the ability to quote photographic, audio, and video communications for the sake of communicating in multimedia would have to happen. Oh... wait it already is... :) Despite abhorrent fair use law and all the draconian legislation in the world it's still happening. Youtube is widely censoring a lot of truly fair use material, but even more is getting through and an infinite amount of people beyond that are learning to not use youtube and use services that actually respect their users right to express themselves. Mass democratization is overwhelming lame bureaucratic crutches as always happens in such ages of enlightenment. One example that lands squarely on the issue is the tom cruise scientology video. Gawker reposted it after Youtube nixed it. The video is not a parody... though there plenty now. It's not a clip. It's an entire video. Many would say it's not protected under fair use at all... it may simply be copyright infringement. But are we to go around with our hands over our eyes about such dangerous cults (I say that having researched the matter heavily and really is that simple), to deny their evils because they happen in a privatized media space or private cyberspace? When increasingly all the public spaces are privately owned... malls in the real world, media companies in the media space, or linden labs / Second Life and web-services in cyberspace... parties could potentially claim ownership over any 'view of themselves they don't like. Whether that view be expressed in photo, in video, or audio. Our right to fair use of media in the great media rich conversation is by proxy / by necessity radically being redefined. The truth is if said cult was successful in bringing down the main video on gawker, youtube and everywhere else... it would cause a thousand fold more innovative parody, and critical fair use videos and that's probably exactly how it's going to play out. In a way... it stimulates a certain kind of creativity. Barbara Striesand style. To be blunt... you speak of this issue of prohibition in a speakeasy... one of a thousand speakeasy's on the eve of prohibitions collapse. So! That said. There are plenty of ways to post video comments. Just as long as (1) the architecture is open enough for people to use a variety of services (including hand posting a video to their own vlog)... I don't see (2) the fair use thing being an issue that will stop it or even slow it down. Information wants to be free and all that junk. The key architecting and open enough system for posting them via multiple services and hosts, and even more importantly... really good systems for TRACKING them. There is also the one last thing (s) important simple, easy to use UI's... but I imagine the blip's and other host of the world will have no problem with this. It's the tracking that has changed over the last year or two. It's the huge innovations in tracking, tracking proof of concepts which has changed in the last year. Where once people were posting simple text comments on blogs without any way to track them / know if their was any response... there are now dozens of services like co.mments.com, techmeme, built in blog software email me responses checkboxes and other mechanisms... so that comments can evolve into true back / forth discussion instead of simply the equivalent of yelling into the wind... from a mountain top... One last comment regarding architecture. it's not necessary that comments be posted directly TO the comment box on a blog post. I personally feel that the best potential of all is to track and display the back and forth BETWEEN blogs /vlogs using permalink tracking. Joe vlogs -- Mary vlogs about Joe's post linking directly to Joe's vlog post -- Joe responds on his vlog linking to Mary's post. Then via various third party systems and track-back mechanisms this conversation becomes visible... trackable... and even RSS subscribe-able... sort of like a tag meme... but much more natural. All that's MISSING from this equation is the
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On 01/02/2008, at 3:58 PM, Mike Meiser wrote: it's not necessary that comments be posted directly TO the comment box on a blog post. I personally feel that the best potential of all is to track and display the back and forth BETWEEN blogs /vlogs using permalink tracking. hi Mike here ye, here ye. or is that hear ye hear ye? whichever, agree absolutely and this really would make interesting things in video. Once this happens then you can map relations, since there is something to map (what's there to map on a post with comments?). and when you map you discover new relations/patterns etc. cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On Jan 31, 2008 4:53 PM, Steve Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mmm yes thats the sort of problem that I was gibbering about in post the other day, if comments and conversations are fragmented across multiple websites, how to piece that all back together again and present it in a sane way. Consider this emphasis... that is exactly the big issue... not the copyright issues and not the GUI issues for posting the videos. Youtube has it relatively easy due to their large audience, and being a walled garden. Proprietary systems always have an initial advantage in this area... but they immediately get entrenched. In actuality while youtube' initial system was a huge leap forward it's now one of the biggest set backs on the site... suffers from a lack of any further innovation. In short youtube's video comments will be usurped widely by innovation in the open space in the next few years. Meanwhile we see all sorts of innovative ways to do things with video commenting conversations, but these features are often part of yet another new business/service, that struggles to attract enough users. Exactly. It's already widely being solved in the plain old blogging space... as always we have only to look to our older wiser brother's lead. The biggest social conversational use of video on the net that I have seen so far, is people embedding videos that they did not make or publish to the web themselves, in their own blogs, forum posts, funwalls on facebook or wherever. Simple, crude, effective, limiting in all sorts of ways but easy enough to be done by lots of people. And another demonstration that although blogging RSS feeds aggregators brought many people to the party, the embedded flash video in the browser has been an absolutely massive part of the online video boom of recent years. I agree... the widespread talking about videos wether embedded or simply linked to on other blogs, user groups, sites, platforms, etc is one of best forms of discussion... rather than the simple commenting on on the original hosts site. I HEART RECONTEXTUALIZATION. Big time. What's more... it's EXTREMELY simple to track these conversations with a tracker across multiple blogs / vlogs. The information is all in the RSS. It's all floating around out there. It just requires someone to mine it and present it in a great visual and trackable way. There are MANY experiments like megite.com and techmeme. Even mefeedia's channels which are modeled after Planet Planet vlogs... simply binding together activity from multiple RSS feeds into one channel... are a primitive experiment in this. mefeedia's prime failing is it fails to display activity such as comments, revlogging, and permalink references outside of the site itself. To be blunt it's it's own little myopic world. (Again, I'm not longer affiliated with mefeedia.) Cheers Cheers indeed. Steve Elbows -Mike of mmeiser.com :) --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Frank Sinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have seen that Blip offers comments RSS for each post, but most of the time the conversations are happening at the vlogs, which have varying support for Comments RSS. It is quite a large engineering effort. Regards, Frank --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jan McLaughlin jannie.jan@ wrote: Blogger just recently allowed commentors to check a box fo follow comments via email. Havent any idea what you guys' are taling about, but... I love it when the coders get all excited. :) Jan On Jan 31, 2008 7:22 AM, David Meade meade.dave@ wrote: It's included in wordpress feeds already. - but I dont think it is in blogger feeds On Jan 31, 2008 1:12 AM, Mike Meiser groups-yahoo-com@ wrote: Cool. Example of a comment feed reference from sull's blip feed: http://sull.blip.tv/rss item guid isPermaLink=false9856168E-BE0C-11DC-A000-B09E966E5011/guid linkhttp://blip.tv/file/586535/link titleWhat is it that's driving this?/title [...] wfw:commentRss http://blip.tv/comments/?attached_to=post592232amp;skin=rss /wfw:commentRss commentshttp://blip.tv/file/586535/comments /item wfw, as in wfw:comments, stands for well formatted web spec is as mentioned here: http://wellformedweb.org/news/wfw_namespace_elements/ comments being part of the original RSS 2.0 spec. It appears to be the url to the page where you can make a comment. So... Basically we have the start of a potential working ecosystem. The next question is who else supports this? Wordpress? Blogger? Moveable type? Feedburner? If not already a part of Wordpress could it be implimented with a plugin or added to an existing plugin from SIAB or that which david meade just created? Will have to do more research. -Mike
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On Jan 31, 2008 10:01 PM, Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 01/02/2008, at 4:28 AM, Jay dedman wrote: I think the biggest challenge is getting creators to actually make video comments. Youtube has the only video commenting system Ive really seen used. Most times though, people are just linking to their own videos so they can ride out the popularity of someone else's video. Youtube is the the city wall where everyone wheatpastes their flyers. I know some here are unfamiliar with my short tempered rants on this particular subject, but Jay is 100% on the money. The web works by its porousness and permeability. Small bits and the rest of it. Video still flies in the face of this. Sorry for dot points, I'm supposed to be working for my employer at the moment You have short tempered rants on this subject!? Sudden realization that I have obviously missed something really good. Where are those at? time to pull out gmail and mine my 50,000 email history. 1. why can't I use QT plugin to copy and paste a part of your video into my QT player? (just as I can copy text straight out of a web browser). cool... I totally feel you here... you can at least download a qt video, open it in qt and then do this... but this PALES in comparison to the hurdles with f*cking flash video. 2. why treat video as little closed media objects online? we could right a book on this subject, I feel it would be more productive for me to mine for your past comments... are they on here or on one of your blogs. 3. for example if you have a credit sequence, but I quote the middle of your video, what point is your credit sequence? Are you farmilliar with the Ted Nelson Exanadu project and it's MANY MANY ill fated inspired projects? It's truely fascinating. A sort of wikipedia for media concept. EVERYTHING is interefernceable. A sort of mythic beast / grail quest project with a slippery slope. 4. we do this with text every day. just look at what my email client has done with Jay's email as an everyday matter of course: quoted it, changed it tyopographically to indicate this, and let me add to it. It retains his name, and clearly indicates that some of the text here comes from somewhere else. I still haven't seen much that does this for video. Yes, deinitely the same wavelength. Again.. I point to the history of photo for parrells since the image is much further along in the process of democratization by the masses then video. 5. blogs solved all of this for online writing with permalinks, a post structure, trackback. And this should be the starting point which vlogging builds upon. I don't think much of comments. They seem old skool to me. I know I love to get 'em, but that's just vanity. Check Comments are aggregating others views to my own identity, I much prefer people to write something in their blog and link to me - so I rate trackbacks way above comments (which is why every now and then over 8 years I've had comments on, comments off, etc). Completely agree... andreas is the exact same way... so much so there's no comments on his solitude.dk So while video comments are interesting, I think a much more interesting (and harder thing) to do would be to quote some of your video in my video and for your video or video blog post, to know about this (video trackback) so it is as much of an almost palimpsest (wrong word but suggestive) as a good blog with its quotes, links out, links in, etc... I'll have to read up on your word to get your meaning... But I disagree that when we talk about video commenting we're ONLY talking about putting videos into comments on people's blogs... I would suggest we instead include vlog to vlog comments in this general discussion of video commenting... and drag it out into the open. cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au Cheers, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On Jan 31, 2008 10:05 PM, Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you should but technically one is trivial computationally the other much more complicated. Also text has clear standards. Quote marks, standardised referencing systems to indicate source, right down to year, page, and object, etc. There is no way to easily indicate this inside video. While there's tons of technical issues... what you're talking about here is tradition Unlike text there are few to no traditions and rituals for video remix and quoting as mass use is a very recent phenom. I'm reminded of a very british idea. If you sit down to a proper british meal you have a fork for every occassion. However in the media world we have only one fork... Our new media diet has 8 more courses then our text one and we have not the proper implimentations. DIY means getting in there, getting dirty and using your hands. I heart metaphors. In fact even text communications traditions are overwhelmed. Younger generations are going nots on the 1337 (elite) speek and meanwhile older generations and professionals are shaking their canes / dictionaries / manuals on grammer... and whatever else they've got and freaking out. I can't wait until some old person throws their fork at me... my metaphor will be complete. :) In addition text is just different to video, they're different meaning systems and operate quite differently and so it means something different to quote text to quoting image and moving image. They're not the same things - that's one reason why things got quite intense around the lumiere discussion. It isnt' helped that while people treat their writing, eg email, as more or less transient and minor (scraps if you like) we still treat our video as whole, proper, mine, and so deserving of respect or consideration. We just treat them as whole finished things which we don't really let go of, whereas words are just, well, an ascii wake while we flow through the web. now we're talking literacy? I just think of media has higher forms of language. There is an awesome TED conference video of an English artist that uses celebrity as the language in her art... Similar in many ways to Andy Warhol's pop art, but also completely original. I think boing boing called it paparazzi art It's an awesome exploration of a new medium (cellebrity) as a language and an art. Recontext at its finest. I will have to digg it up. -mike On 01/02/2008, at 4:37 AM, David King wrote: Asked a slightly different way - what's the difference? What's the difference between someone's text-based words and someone's video- based words? I'm thinking you should be able to pull quotes from both. cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
comments below On Feb 1, 2008 12:10 AM, Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 01/02/2008, at 3:58 PM, Mike Meiser wrote: it's not necessary that comments be posted directly TO the comment box on a blog post. I personally feel that the best potential of all is to track and display the back and forth BETWEEN blogs /vlogs using permalink tracking. hi Mike here ye, here ye. or is that hear ye hear ye? whichever, agree absolutely and this really would make interesting things in video. Once this happens then you can map relations, since there is something to map (what's there to map on a post with comments?). and when you map you discover new relations/patterns etc. Ha... the more things change the more they stay the same... the space has developed light years in only 3 years... hard to believe... and yet we're still basically talking about the same things... revlogging. It is much evolved though. -Mike cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
comments below On Jan 31, 2008 10:37 PM, Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 01/02/2008, at 2:23 PM, Markus Sandy wrote: are you referring to http://www.mystickies.com/ ? i think there are several services like this now (sort of defeats the point) i recall a firefox plugin always been surprised that this did not take off more. weren't there libel issues in the early days that dampened this a bit? hi Markus yep, that's them :-) in the hypertext development community there was an effort to make (well, they did make) systems that let you annotate any other webpage and these annotations would be stored centrally to be distributed to others who used the service. The point was to add another layer on top of published page, much like how you make annotations when reading a book, but of course to share these. thinking out of left field, this would be really cool using flash or QT as you could have a layer (toggle its visibility) which could show such annotations, eg othre videos elsewhere that refer to this particular video. Could be time based too... This strikes me as the most brilliant idea of all. To turn the web into a giant media rich wiki with infinite version history. What's more i think it's 100% doable technically, theoretically and financially It solves many of the issues I've seen with the media web. I'd mentioned Ted Nelsen's Zanadu project and it's many reincarnations all of them ending up being vaporware and existing almost completely in theoretical or academic relm despite millions of dolllars. I don't know half the specifics, but there's definitely some parrallels. I'd always had this idea of broadband communities or 'aggregatory communities... but what if instead of aggregating these communities and the many webservices which served them brought the commentary, the context to the original content in layer upon layer. Sort of proxy services. Add in not just sticky notes, but media remixing, rewriting, and history but actual functionality changes as is starting to happen with greasemonkey and you have not just worlds upon worlds with different perspective but also that function differently. Maybe that is more the social network of the future. Something you try on like a new set of glasses. -Mike cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On 01/02/2008, at 4:33 PM, Mike Meiser wrote: Are you farmilliar with the Ted Nelson Exanadu project and it's MANY MANY ill fated inspired projects? It's truely fascinating. A sort of wikipedia for media concept. EVERYTHING is interefernceable. A sort of mythic beast / grail quest project with a slippery slope. on the way home but can't resist a quick boast. I'm the recipient of the 2001 3rd Ted Nelson Award for Hypertext Structure as the Event of Connection (annual hypertext conference that year in Aarhus - nod to Andreas). Ted was there, intertwingling is my mantra :-) cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
On 2/1/08, Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 01/02/2008, at 4:33 PM, Mike Meiser wrote: Are you farmilliar with the Ted Nelson Exanadu project and it's MANY MANY ill fated inspired projects? It's truely fascinating. A sort of wikipedia for media concept. EVERYTHING is interefernceable. A sort of mythic beast / grail quest project with a slippery slope. on the way home but can't resist a quick boast. I'm the recipient of the 2001 3rd Ted Nelson Award for Hypertext Structure as the Event of Connection (annual hypertext conference that year in Aarhus - nod to Andreas). Ted was there, intertwingling is my mantra :-) Haha! Mike roles on floor laughing. You freak! :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertwingularity Maybe I should drop the terms recontext, intermediation singularity and just start addopting intertwingling, intertwingularity, intertwingledness and many other great derivatives. You realize you're scaring everyone right? Incredibly mundane is the term I think most would use to describe the majority of this conversation. -Mike cheers Adrian Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] bachelor communication honours coordinator vogmae.net.au Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
It's not that complex though to track comments. You follow the permalink. You parse the page one time... you look for the comment RSS most platforms have them now. You display all or part of the comments in the aggregator... maybe as trackbacks, you just take them into account in the aggregator as ranking info, display them with the other comments and on site activity... maybe you simply say 8 more comments at joevlog.com. This last idea in particular is a personal favorite of mine because it simultaneously drives traffic back to the vlog while adding value to the aggregator. There in fact may be packages / API's out by now on for tracking blog comments... there are certainly meta standards, at least one documented micoformat for comments. There are of course potential partners. I've chatted with the guys at co.mments.com. They're huge potential for them to licensce their technology. It actually makes much more sense then running a single webservice for them... because obviously mefeedia and other specialized aggregatory communities don't compete directly or even indirectly. But... partnership is probably not necessary... because like i said... comments are very widely standardized around blogging packages these days. Of course there's still cooler things... there's tracking... which posts/ blogs are linking in the content to which posts. It's meme tracking... like techmeme.com and megit.com. Tracking the conversations in the vlogosphere. All that data is already in mefeedia's DB... all that need be done is to process it. The combination of these two types of tracking could light a fire under the vlogosphere and of course it's implied that it'd light a fire under the webservice that did such a thing just like it's done for companies like techmeme and dozens of others. What's more... it's organic unlike digg... and embraces an open ecosystem unlike youtube. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On Jan 30, 2008 9:44 PM, Frank Sinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're working on putting technology in place - a new Video Search Engine - that will hopefully enable the tracking of video responses across vlogs. The problem is extremely complex as there are many variations on formatting, blog post URLs, embedding, etc. It will be interesting to do some small experiments such as apply the technology to a hot conversation that becomes threaded / moves in many different directions. Regards, Frank http://www.mefeedia.com - Discover the Video Web --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sweet work David, Jay and everyone who worked on it. Now all we need is 3rd party services, i.e. aggregators and meme trackers to start tracking video comments as well as simply RSS feeds. This has long been one of the biggest failings of aggregators. it' not just about the RSS... it's about the conversations at the end of the permalinks... AND it's about other bloggers and their blog posts referencing each other. As people such as David, Jay and the Show in the box team build more value into the comments hopefully others will stand up and take notice. Conversation tracking, meme tracking, or social aggregation. There are many names and many approaches to exploring what is I personally think is a whole new frontier beyond the diggs, facebooks, twitters and myspaces into a much more organic and natural social space. These aggregators will make 1.0 versions of aggregators look one dimensional. And they are. Examples of 1.0 aggregators - bloglines - google newsreader - various software aggregators: itunes, fireant, miro, newsgator, netnewswire, vienna Examples of experiments in conversation tracking are - co.comments.com - cocomment.com - Megatite - Commentful, commentful.blogflux.com And a couple of Meme trackers - megite.com - techmeme.com There' probably a bunch I don't know about or am forgetting about. I have yet to see a RSS / blog aggregator that also tracks users comments well. But there are a few out there who's names I can't remember yet. I think the one web-service in this space that is best positioned to start tracking video comments and memes across the vlogosphere is mefeedia, but sadly though i've pushed and pushed it hasn't happened yet. Consider this another suggestion. (Disclaimer: I'm not longer a part of mefeedia.) -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On Jan 30, 2008 1:46 PM, Jay dedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for those of you using Wordpress, Davod Meade craeted a whole new plugin for video comments: http://www.davidmeade.com/wordpress-plugins#videoComments It seems works much better than what we were using Semanal: http://semanal.org/2008/01/27/week-5-2008-video-commenting-is-live/ The plugin adds some extra fields to the comment area. The video comment then shows up as a clickable thumbnail and lays inline if you also
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
and i just checked blip feeds and... good on them ;) it's in there. On Jan 31, 2008 12:10 AM, Sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For starters, their should be wide adoption of WFW - Well-Formed Web wfw:commentRss namespace element. http://wellformedweb.org/news/wfw_namespace_elements/ http://www.sellsbrothers.com/spout/default.aspx?content=archive.htm#exposingRssComments On Jan 30, 2008 10:56 PM, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not that complex though to track comments. You follow the permalink. You parse the page one time... you look for the comment RSS most platforms have them now. You display all or part of the comments in the aggregator... maybe as trackbacks, you just take them into account in the aggregator as ranking info, display them with the other comments and on site activity... maybe you simply say 8 more comments at joevlog.com. This last idea in particular is a personal favorite of mine because it simultaneously drives traffic back to the vlog while adding value to the aggregator. There in fact may be packages / API's out by now on for tracking blog comments... there are certainly meta standards, at least one documented micoformat for comments. There are of course potential partners. I've chatted with the guys at co.mments.com. They're huge potential for them to licensce their technology. It actually makes much more sense then running a single webservice for them... because obviously mefeedia and other specialized aggregatory communities don't compete directly or even indirectly. But... partnership is probably not necessary... because like i said... comments are very widely standardized around blogging packages these days. Of course there's still cooler things... there's tracking... which posts/ blogs are linking in the content to which posts. It's meme tracking... like techmeme.com and megit.com. Tracking the conversations in the vlogosphere. All that data is already in mefeedia's DB... all that need be done is to process it. The combination of these two types of tracking could light a fire under the vlogosphere and of course it's implied that it'd light a fire under the webservice that did such a thing just like it's done for companies like techmeme and dozens of others. What's more... it's organic unlike digg... and embraces an open ecosystem unlike youtube. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On Jan 30, 2008 9:44 PM, Frank Sinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're working on putting technology in place - a new Video Search Engine - that will hopefully enable the tracking of video responses across vlogs. The problem is extremely complex as there are many variations on formatting, blog post URLs, embedding, etc. It will be interesting to do some small experiments such as apply the technology to a hot conversation that becomes threaded / moves in many different directions. Regards, Frank http://www.mefeedia.com - Discover the Video Web --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sweet work David, Jay and everyone who worked on it. Now all we need is 3rd party services, i.e. aggregators and meme trackers to start tracking video comments as well as simply RSS feeds. This has long been one of the biggest failings of aggregators. it' not just about the RSS... it's about the conversations at the end of the permalinks... AND it's about other bloggers and their blog posts referencing each other. As people such as David, Jay and the Show in the box team build more value into the comments hopefully others will stand up and take notice. Conversation tracking, meme tracking, or social aggregation. There are many names and many approaches to exploring what is I personally think is a whole new frontier beyond the diggs, facebooks, twitters and myspaces into a much more organic and natural social space. These aggregators will make 1.0 versions of aggregators look one dimensional. And they are. Examples of 1.0 aggregators - bloglines - google newsreader - various software aggregators: itunes, fireant, miro, newsgator, netnewswire, vienna Examples of experiments in conversation tracking are - co.comments.com - cocomment.com - Megatite - Commentful, commentful.blogflux.com And a couple of Meme trackers - megite.com - techmeme.com There' probably a bunch I don't know about or am forgetting about. I have yet to see a RSS / blog aggregator that also tracks users comments well. But there are a few out there who's names I can't remember yet. I think the one web-service in this space that is best positioned to
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
For starters, their should be wide adoption of WFW - Well-Formed Web wfw:commentRss namespace element. http://wellformedweb.org/news/wfw_namespace_elements/ http://www.sellsbrothers.com/spout/default.aspx?content=archive.htm#exposingRssComments On Jan 30, 2008 10:56 PM, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not that complex though to track comments. You follow the permalink. You parse the page one time... you look for the comment RSS most platforms have them now. You display all or part of the comments in the aggregator... maybe as trackbacks, you just take them into account in the aggregator as ranking info, display them with the other comments and on site activity... maybe you simply say 8 more comments at joevlog.com. This last idea in particular is a personal favorite of mine because it simultaneously drives traffic back to the vlog while adding value to the aggregator. There in fact may be packages / API's out by now on for tracking blog comments... there are certainly meta standards, at least one documented micoformat for comments. There are of course potential partners. I've chatted with the guys at co.mments.com. They're huge potential for them to licensce their technology. It actually makes much more sense then running a single webservice for them... because obviously mefeedia and other specialized aggregatory communities don't compete directly or even indirectly. But... partnership is probably not necessary... because like i said... comments are very widely standardized around blogging packages these days. Of course there's still cooler things... there's tracking... which posts/ blogs are linking in the content to which posts. It's meme tracking... like techmeme.com and megit.com. Tracking the conversations in the vlogosphere. All that data is already in mefeedia's DB... all that need be done is to process it. The combination of these two types of tracking could light a fire under the vlogosphere and of course it's implied that it'd light a fire under the webservice that did such a thing just like it's done for companies like techmeme and dozens of others. What's more... it's organic unlike digg... and embraces an open ecosystem unlike youtube. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On Jan 30, 2008 9:44 PM, Frank Sinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're working on putting technology in place - a new Video Search Engine - that will hopefully enable the tracking of video responses across vlogs. The problem is extremely complex as there are many variations on formatting, blog post URLs, embedding, etc. It will be interesting to do some small experiments such as apply the technology to a hot conversation that becomes threaded / moves in many different directions. Regards, Frank http://www.mefeedia.com - Discover the Video Web --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sweet work David, Jay and everyone who worked on it. Now all we need is 3rd party services, i.e. aggregators and meme trackers to start tracking video comments as well as simply RSS feeds. This has long been one of the biggest failings of aggregators. it' not just about the RSS... it's about the conversations at the end of the permalinks... AND it's about other bloggers and their blog posts referencing each other. As people such as David, Jay and the Show in the box team build more value into the comments hopefully others will stand up and take notice. Conversation tracking, meme tracking, or social aggregation. There are many names and many approaches to exploring what is I personally think is a whole new frontier beyond the diggs, facebooks, twitters and myspaces into a much more organic and natural social space. These aggregators will make 1.0 versions of aggregators look one dimensional. And they are. Examples of 1.0 aggregators - bloglines - google newsreader - various software aggregators: itunes, fireant, miro, newsgator, netnewswire, vienna Examples of experiments in conversation tracking are - co.comments.com - cocomment.com - Megatite - Commentful, commentful.blogflux.com And a couple of Meme trackers - megite.com - techmeme.com There' probably a bunch I don't know about or am forgetting about. I have yet to see a RSS / blog aggregator that also tracks users comments well. But there are a few out there who's names I can't remember yet. I think the one web-service in this space that is best positioned to start tracking video comments and memes across the vlogosphere is mefeedia, but sadly though i've pushed and pushed it hasn't happened yet. Consider this another suggestion. (Disclaimer: I'm not longer a part of mefeedia.) -Mike
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Plugin for Video Comments
Cool. Example of a comment feed reference from sull's blip feed: http://sull.blip.tv/rss item guid isPermaLink=false9856168E-BE0C-11DC-A000-B09E966E5011/guid linkhttp://blip.tv/file/586535/link titleWhat is it that's driving this?/title [...] wfw:commentRsshttp://blip.tv/comments/?attached_to=post592232amp;skin=rss/wfw:commentRss commentshttp://blip.tv/file/586535/comments /item wfw, as in wfw:comments, stands for well formatted web spec is as mentioned here: http://wellformedweb.org/news/wfw_namespace_elements/ comments being part of the original RSS 2.0 spec. It appears to be the url to the page where you can make a comment. So... Basically we have the start of a potential working ecosystem. The next question is who else supports this? Wordpress? Blogger? Moveable type? Feedburner? If not already a part of Wordpress could it be implimented with a plugin or added to an existing plugin from SIAB or that which david meade just created? Will have to do more research. -Mike On Jan 31, 2008 12:16 AM, Sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and i just checked blip feeds and... good on them ;) it's in there. On Jan 31, 2008 12:10 AM, Sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For starters, their should be wide adoption of WFW - Well-Formed Web wfw:commentRss namespace element. http://wellformedweb.org/news/wfw_namespace_elements/ http://www.sellsbrothers.com/spout/default.aspx?content=archive.htm#exposingRssComments On Jan 30, 2008 10:56 PM, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not that complex though to track comments. You follow the permalink. You parse the page one time... you look for the comment RSS most platforms have them now. You display all or part of the comments in the aggregator... maybe as trackbacks, you just take them into account in the aggregator as ranking info, display them with the other comments and on site activity... maybe you simply say 8 more comments at joevlog.com. This last idea in particular is a personal favorite of mine because it simultaneously drives traffic back to the vlog while adding value to the aggregator. There in fact may be packages / API's out by now on for tracking blog comments... there are certainly meta standards, at least one documented micoformat for comments. There are of course potential partners. I've chatted with the guys at co.mments.com. They're huge potential for them to licensce their technology. It actually makes much more sense then running a single webservice for them... because obviously mefeedia and other specialized aggregatory communities don't compete directly or even indirectly. But... partnership is probably not necessary... because like i said... comments are very widely standardized around blogging packages these days. Of course there's still cooler things... there's tracking... which posts/ blogs are linking in the content to which posts. It's meme tracking... like techmeme.com and megit.com. Tracking the conversations in the vlogosphere. All that data is already in mefeedia's DB... all that need be done is to process it. The combination of these two types of tracking could light a fire under the vlogosphere and of course it's implied that it'd light a fire under the webservice that did such a thing just like it's done for companies like techmeme and dozens of others. What's more... it's organic unlike digg... and embraces an open ecosystem unlike youtube. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On Jan 30, 2008 9:44 PM, Frank Sinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're working on putting technology in place - a new Video Search Engine - that will hopefully enable the tracking of video responses across vlogs. The problem is extremely complex as there are many variations on formatting, blog post URLs, embedding, etc. It will be interesting to do some small experiments such as apply the technology to a hot conversation that becomes threaded / moves in many different directions. Regards, Frank http://www.mefeedia.com - Discover the Video Web --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sweet work David, Jay and everyone who worked on it. Now all we need is 3rd party services, i.e. aggregators and meme trackers to start tracking video comments as well as simply RSS feeds. This has long been one of the biggest failings of aggregators. it' not just about the RSS... it's about the conversations at the end of the permalinks... AND it's about other bloggers and their blog posts referencing each other. As people such as David, Jay and the Show in the box team build more value into the comments hopefully others will stand up and take
