Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
Straw Man argument. First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all births in the newspaper. During that time, anyone can report a birth to Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii. Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth. Funny though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents. Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president. That's a straw man. His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still secret. He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone call to release his vault BC. Why hasn't he done it? All your eloquent reasons will not overcome this simple fact. Jojo - Original Message - From: Patrick Ellul To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy http://factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/ In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961: Of course, it’s distantly possible that Obama’s grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Of course I know his real name. He was naturalized as an Indonesian citizen as Barry Soetero. The Indonesian government knows this as a fact but they are holding this over Criminal-in-chief's head to win concession from the American Government. This is the danger of divided loyalties for a president. The founding fathers wisely included the Natural Born provision exactly to prevent situations like this. Jojo - Original Message - From: Daniel Rocha To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy So, his name is no Barak Obama or similar? And you know the real name? 2012/8/8 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com I can't very well use his real name cause the secret service will be all over me and do their intimidation routine. - Original Message - From: Daniel Rocha To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Don't you think hat Donkey Kong, which is the name of a videogame ape, is a bit racist? 2012/8/7 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com LOL, if these were the only faults of Donkeykong, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Fact is, Donkeykong is a usurper-in-chief. He violated and trampled on the most basic law of our country. Donkeykong is a criminal and should be removed, by force if necessary. Jojo -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever! image.jpeg
Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
fair enough. On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** Straw Man argument. First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all births in the newspaper. During that time, anyone can report a birth to Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii. Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth. Funny though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents. Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president. That's a straw man. His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still secret. He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone call to release his vault BC. Why hasn't he done it? All your eloquent reasons will not overcome this simple fact. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:36 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy http://factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/ In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961: [image: Inline image 1] Of course, it’s distantly possible that Obama’s grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** Of course I know his real name. He was naturalized as an Indonesian citizen as Barry Soetero. The Indonesian government knows this as a fact but they are holding this over Criminal-in-chief's head to win concession from the American Government. This is the danger of divided loyalties for a president. The founding fathers wisely included the Natural Born provision exactly to prevent situations like this. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 08, 2012 12:29 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy So, his name is no Barak Obama or similar? And you know the real name? 2012/8/8 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com ** I can't very well use his real name cause the secret service will be all over me and do their intimidation routine. - Original Message - *From:* Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:57 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Don't you think hat Donkey Kong, which is the name of a videogame ape, is a bit racist? 2012/8/7 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com LOL, if these were the only faults of Donkeykong, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Fact is, Donkeykong is a usurper-in-chief. He violated and trampled on the most basic law of our country. Donkeykong is a criminal and should be removed, by force if necessary. Jojo -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever! -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever! image.jpeg
Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012
Hadn't noticed but Akira linked to Celani's report above. http://www.22passi.it/downloads/PresICCF17_NewA3A.pdf Excellent level of detail, including exact alloy used (isotan44, a constant electrical resistivity alloy) should allow for many replication attempts - and just one flawless public replication experiment could change this field forever. Virgin wires didn't work. Preparation methodology of metal surface isn't totally clear, though there are many hints. Talks of resistively heating to 1000°C + with rapid cooling, I guess it is something to do with oxidising and reducing the surface, as selective formation of CuO is mentioned, but he also talks of acid etching. Temperatures only 250-400°C peak, pressures up to 8bar peak (initially Ar-H mix, then all H). If Rossi is any guide there may be more to come at higher temperatures. I would guess that knowing the alloy used there are likely to be a ton of people soon experimenting with this material. And it should not be hard to make a nano-powder out of it, or try exposing it to a plasma source (like a spark plug). Exciting times. On 8 August 2012 05:19, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Le Aug 7, 2012 à 12:45 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com a écrit : No a good conclusion. it can be nuclear without externally visible radiation. Raduation can be stopped (alpha , beta), and phonons could dissipate energy too. neutrons could be slow and undetectable, charged particles could be easily stopped... let's dont fall in the initial error to apply old vision to new facts , like in 89 Agreed. If hydrogen goes in and helium comes out (or, for the sake of argument, copper :), whatever the mechanism, how is it not nuclear? (An earlier thread now leads me to suspect the reactant to be the small fraction of deuterium in the hydrogen.) Eric
RE: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
Good debate! This is what freedom of speech is all about. His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. Agreed. His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), so it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning to the USA *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be a U.S. Citizen. If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would. I'm sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being POTUS someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the in case he wanted to become President someday argument. there is reason enough by just coming here. If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child to be a US citizen? I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments and evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far. perhaps after the next election we'll find out? Or not. -Mark From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Straw Man argument. First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all births in the newspaper. During that time, anyone can report a birth to Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii. Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth. Funny though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents. Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president. That's a straw man. His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still secret. He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone call to release his vault BC. Why hasn't he done it? All your eloquent reasons will not overcome this simple fact. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen 2012/8/8 MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net: Good debate! This is what freedom of speech is all about… “His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.” Agreed. His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), so it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning to the USA *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be a U.S. Citizen. If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would… I’m sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being POTUS someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the “in case he wanted to become President someday” argument… there is reason enough by just coming here. If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child to be a US citizen? I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments and evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps after the next election we’ll find out? Or not… -Mark From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Straw Man argument. First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all births in the newspaper. During that time, anyone can report a birth to Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii. Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth. Funny though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents. Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president. That's a straw man. His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still secret. He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone call to release his vault BC. Why hasn't he done it? All your eloquent reasons will not overcome this simple fact. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
Michele, two things: First, the Immigration laws were a bit different in 1963. Stanley Ann Dunham was too young to have conferred to Bambi U.S. Citizenship at that time. Second, Mere U.S. Citizenship does not qualify one to be President. The founding fathers specifically included Natural Born U.S. citizenship as a qualification for being POTUS. I trust you know the difference between a U.S. Citizen and a Natural Born U.S. Citizen. Even if bambi was a U.S. citizen (that fact alone is in doubt); he would still not be qualified unless he was Natural Born U.S. Citizen. Jojo - Original Message - From: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen 2012/8/8 MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net: Good debate! This is what freedom of speech is all about… “His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.” Agreed. His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), so it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning to the USA *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be a U.S. Citizen. If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would… I’m sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being POTUS someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the “in case he wanted to become President someday” argument… there is reason enough by just coming here. If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child to be a US citizen? I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments and evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps after the next election we’ll find out? Or not… -Mark From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Straw Man argument. First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all births in the newspaper. During that time, anyone can report a birth to Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii. Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth. Funny though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents. Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president. That's a straw man. His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still secret. He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone call to release his vault BC. Why hasn't he done it? All your eloquent reasons will not overcome this simple fact. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
Jojo, I know US president must be born on US soil. I do not know enough about Citizenship law to know if the mother was eligible to confer Citizenship to her son, she was 18 at the time. Reading wikipedia seems to say she was eligible in 1961, but as we know wikipedia is far from complete. mic 2012/8/8 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com: Michele, two things: First, the Immigration laws were a bit different in 1963. Stanley Ann Dunham was too young to have conferred to Bambi U.S. Citizenship at that time. Second, Mere U.S. Citizenship does not qualify one to be President. The founding fathers specifically included Natural Born U.S. citizenship as a qualification for being POTUS. I trust you know the difference between a U.S. Citizen and a Natural Born U.S. Citizen. Even if bambi was a U.S. citizen (that fact alone is in doubt); he would still not be qualified unless he was Natural Born U.S. Citizen. Jojo - Original Message - From: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen 2012/8/8 MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net: Good debate! This is what freedom of speech is all about… “His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.” Agreed. His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), so it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning to the USA *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be a U.S. Citizen. If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would… I’m sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being POTUS someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the “in case he wanted to become President someday” argument… there is reason enough by just coming here. If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child to be a US citizen? I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments and evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps after the next election we’ll find out? Or not… -Mark From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Straw Man argument. First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all births in the newspaper. During that time, anyone can report a birth to Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii. Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth. Funny though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents. Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president. That's a straw man. His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still secret. He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone call to release his vault BC. Why hasn't he done it? All your eloquent reasons will not overcome this simple fact. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
Michele, a Natural Born US citizen must fulfill 2 things: 1. Must be born to two US citizen parents. 2. Must be born in US soil. Surely bambi does not qualify for number 1. His alleged father was not a US citizen Second, there is significant question as to where he was actually born. He refuses to release his original vault BC. All we have is a poorly photoshopped copy of his BC, which is surely a fake. Jojo - Original Message - From: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Jojo, I know US president must be born on US soil. I do not know enough about Citizenship law to know if the mother was eligible to confer Citizenship to her son, she was 18 at the time. Reading wikipedia seems to say she was eligible in 1961, but as we know wikipedia is far from complete. mic 2012/8/8 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com: Michele, two things: First, the Immigration laws were a bit different in 1963. Stanley Ann Dunham was too young to have conferred to Bambi U.S. Citizenship at that time. Second, Mere U.S. Citizenship does not qualify one to be President. The founding fathers specifically included Natural Born U.S. citizenship as a qualification for being POTUS. I trust you know the difference between a U.S. Citizen and a Natural Born U.S. Citizen. Even if bambi was a U.S. citizen (that fact alone is in doubt); he would still not be qualified unless he was Natural Born U.S. Citizen. Jojo - Original Message - From: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen 2012/8/8 MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net: Good debate! This is what freedom of speech is all about… “His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.” Agreed. His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), so it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning to the USA *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be a U.S. Citizen. If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would… I’m sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being POTUS someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the “in case he wanted to become President someday” argument… there is reason enough by just coming here. If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child to be a US citizen? I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments and evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps after the next election we’ll find out? Or not… -Mark From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Straw Man argument. First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all births in the newspaper. During that time, anyone can report a birth to Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii. Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth. Funny though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents. Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president. That's a straw man. His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still secret. He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone call to release his vault BC. Why hasn't he done it? All your eloquent reasons will not overcome this simple fact. Jojo
[Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention
Greetings Vortex-l, This morning on CNBC Financial News- Squawk Box an interviiew with author Ms Moyo: Winner Takes All ...the host of CNBC asked her what she thought about: Cold Fusion. CNBC is aware..perhaps more than we know...will more mentioning occur ? Respectfully, Ron Kita, Chiralex
RE: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention
This morning on CNBC Financial News- Squawk Box an interviiew with author Ms Moyo: Winner Takes All ...the host of CNBC asked her what she thought about: Cold Fusion. CNBC is aware..perhaps more than we know...will more mentioning occur ? Is there a link to the specific article you cite? My searches over at CNBC.COM didn't immediately bring up anything. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012
On 2012-08-07 10:55, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, Please watch this from minute 15:00 onward: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxjxFdFEBsw Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:24 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Is there a link to the specific article you cite? My searches over at CNBC.COM didn't immediately bring up anything. Keyword: Moyo http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000107252play=1 4:47 into the vid. (Said with a chuckle.) T
RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012
This idea that radiation can be stopped in an unshielded robust device is generally incorrect. The claim indicates the proponent is unfamiliar with Maxwell-Boltzmann energy distributions. There are few physical phenomena which are simpler and more certain to measure in tiny amounts than nuclear radiation, even the kinds that are easily shielded. I can measure the radiation signal from bananas for goodness sake. That is pico-watt level, or less. There is absolutely no way to hide detectable relics of radiation in a device like Celani's, which is responsible for thermal energy in the tens of watts, without thick lead shielding weighing hundreds of pounds. Even then, measurable bremsstrahlung makes it through (but it may not be statistically relevant). However, photon radiation in the UV and EUV range or lower can be 100% absorbed - but this does NOT have nuclear, as its prime origin. True - the weakest beta emitters like tritium are not easily picked up by the old-style CD Geiger counters but can be detected with scintillators - even when most of the beta radiation (99.99+%) is seemingly shielded by a piece of glass. Frascati has these detectors, of course. This is where Boltzmann comes in. The problem with the easily stopped suggestion is in the failure to appreciate the extremes of the statistical distribution - the so-called Boltzmann's tail, and the sensitivity of good meters. It is that tiny percentage on the far end that always gets detected. Whether it is relevant or not is another issue. We can be almost certain that any known nuclear reactions, supplying heat at the 10-20 watt level would be easily detectable in an unshielded device such as Celani's. The fact that a wisp of radiation is seen on startup indicates that QM reactions are involved. The Ni-H phenomenon is not an alternative version of Pd-D - it is based on a different reaction (but that reaction could be a predecessor of fusion when adequate deuterium is present). It is counter-productive to try to frame it this a different version of Pd-D, in my opinion. The natural ratio of deuterium at ~250 parts per million is way too low to account for the energy seen, especially over long runs. Bottom Line: Left open is a completely new to science type of nuclear reaction, never before documented, and having lots of energy with no radiation signature - but ask yourself this: is that new kind of nuclear reaction more likely, or less likely, to be found than alternative proved reactions? One such alternative, newly discovered, is gain from the DCE (dynamical Casimir effect) which after all - is known to science (but at lower energy levels). I'm choosing to go with what is basically known to happen scientifically, but suggesting that it can be engineered to be more robust. That does not require another miracle, just good engineering. The DCE was first documented a little over a year ago, and this is an excellent time to propose that a version of it at nano-dimensions, is the driving force in Ni-H. http://www.technologyreview.com/view/424111/first-observation-of-the-dynamic al-casimir-effect/ Can anyone really claim that the Celani's treatment of the wire to give nano geometry, or Ahern's powder treatment to give nano geometry - are merely coincidental to the success in this field? Nobody knows what Rossi has done, but his patent claims nanometric and the likelihood in all of this is that the geometry itself is the sine qua non of thermal gain in Ni-H. From: alain.coetmeur@gmail. No a good conclusion. it can be nuclear without externally visible radiation. Raduation can be stopped (alpha , beta), and phonons could dissipate energy too. neutrons could be slow and undetectable, charged particles could be easily stopped... let's dont fall in the initial error to apply old vision to new facts , like in 89 attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Keyword: Moyo http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000107252play=1 4:47 into the vid. (Said with a chuckle.) I think that was a throwaway joke. I do not think anyone there serious meant that cold fusion might be real. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012
Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: Hadn't noticed but Akira linked to Celani's report above. http://www.22passi.it/downloads/PresICCF17_NewA3A.pdf That's pretty good! I uploaded it already. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention
It sounded almost like sarcasm. Craig On 08/08/2012 10:14 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Keyword: Moyo http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000107252play=1 4:47 into the vid. (Said with a chuckle.) I think that was a throwaway joke. I do not think anyone there serious meant that cold fusion might be real. - Jed
[Vo]:My presentation at ICCF17
Session: [FrM1-3], August 17, 2012 Paper Title: The Future may be Better than You Think Author: Jed Rothwell Abstract: Cold fusion researchers are prone to be unduly pessimistic about the potential for cold fusion. They know too much; they are too close to the problem. They may also have unexamined assumptions. Researchers feel put upon because of political opposition. The LENR-CANR log file proves there is a great deal of interest in this field. There is broad, untapped, latent support for it. The log shows that every week scientists and engineers download thousands of papers on cold fusion.
Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention
Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote: It sounded almost like sarcasm. Probably was. We don't need to worry about stuff like this. It causes no harm. The only thing in the mass media that causes harm are reports meant to be taken seriously that are filled with misinformation, such as the Fleischmann obituaries, and columns published in Sci. Am. and by Lemonick and Gibbs. As I said before, slightly wrong information does not hurt either. The problem arises when people who know absolutely nothing make up stuff and publish it, like the reporters of 1904 who said the Wright brothers were flying some kind of balloon. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: I know US president must be born on US soil. That is incorrect. Several recent candidates such as John McCain were not born on U.S. soil. That makes no difference at all. As long as one parent is a U.S. citizen the child is a natural born U.S. citizen. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
Does that exclude also people who are already president of another country? It would be fun to be president of 2 countries! 2012/8/8 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com That is incorrect. Several recent candidates such as John McCain were not born on U.S. soil. That makes no difference at all. As long as one parent is a U.S. citizen the child is a natural born U.S. citizen. - Jed -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012
I've just make quick computation showing, with celani data in the paper and at NIWeek, that : - chemical can be ruled out, even wit 95% anomaly error - if surface is the only active environment, using micrometric particle lead to power density of 10kW/g of powder, 10 times above the claim of Rossi and Defkalion I quote also someone focusing on data in the Celani paper, that show that temperature alone can trigger the reaction, that even if electricity make it better, it is not needed. So with good engineering self-sustain is possible via insulation... it can also explain why defkalion use a spark to light up the reactor, since electro-migration accelerate the reaction, restructure the material, beside the simple heating effect. the topic where there are the discussion: http://lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=43t=353p=1579#p1565 this small paper contain key data, far from being anecdotal. 2012/8/8 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: Hadn't noticed but Akira linked to Celani's report above. http://www.22passi.it/downloads/PresICCF17_NewA3A.pdf That's pretty good! I uploaded it already. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
I thought that since his mother was an American citizen then he automatically was. Is this not the way it pans out? Does the location of birth outside of the USA make one a non citizen? Dave -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:31 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Good debate! This is what freedom of speech is all about… “His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.” Agreed. His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), so it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning to the USA *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be a U.S. Citizen. If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would… I’m sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being POTUS someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the “in case he wanted to become President someday” argument… there is reason enough by just coming here. If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child to be a US citizen? I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments and evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps after the next election we’ll find out? Or not… -Mark From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Straw Man argument. First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all births in the newspaper. During that time, anyone can report a birth to Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii. Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth. Funny though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents. Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president. That's a straw man. His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still secret. He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone call to release his vault BC. Why hasn't he done it? All your eloquent reasons will not overcome this simple fact. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention
Hi Steve, This was the financial cable show CNBC Squawk and Joe Kernan, host, made the comment at 7:10AM. Not sure If there is an on-line transcript. Joe Kernan has an interesting WIKI page. He is a MIT grad and also a former Cancer Researcher. I sent an email to squ...@cnbc.com thanking him for the comment. I also mentioned Professor Hagelstein , MIT Lab and his working LENR device. I am not sure IF the Squawk or Squawk on the Street message will get to him, but I send msgs in the early am. Best, Ron On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:24 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: This morning on CNBC Financial News- Squawk Box an interviiew with author Ms Moyo: Winner Takes All ...the host of CNBC asked her what she thought about: Cold Fusion. CNBC is aware..perhaps more than we know...will more mentioning occur ? Is there a link to the specific article you cite? My searches over at CNBC.COM didn't immediately bring up anything. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention
Vortex-l, We must remember that CNBC rebroadcasted Cold Fusion- Now Hot Againand there is some chance that Joe Kernan may have watched it. Joe..I watch his show daily, and have a feel for his personality--it really don t think it was sarcasm. I think that he wanted a meaningful reply- or affirmation. Joe is ex- MIT and technical. Time will tell if it was meant to be sarcastic. Respectfully, Ron On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Ron Kita chiralex.k...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Steve, This was the financial cable show CNBC Squawk and Joe Kernan, host, made the comment at 7:10AM. Not sure If there is an on-line transcript. Joe Kernan has an interesting WIKI page. He is a MIT grad and also a former Cancer Researcher. I sent an email to squ...@cnbc.com thanking him for the comment. I also mentioned Professor Hagelstein , MIT Lab and his working LENR device. I am not sure IF the Squawk or Squawk on the Street message will get to him, but I send msgs in the early am. Best, Ron On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:24 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: This morning on CNBC Financial News- Squawk Box an interviiew with author Ms Moyo: Winner Takes All ...the host of CNBC asked her what she thought about: Cold Fusion. CNBC is aware..perhaps more than we know...will more mentioning occur ? Is there a link to the specific article you cite? My searches over at CNBC.COM didn't immediately bring up anything. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect
Greetings Vortex-l, I was debating whether or not to write this post, but it is my feeling that financial gurus want to avoid the Apple Effect. I read Woz and most recently I-Woz, and major corporations dismissed Apple on several accounts. I think it was an HP executive who said that there is no market for a personal computer. Also, IMHO financial gurus don t want to miss the next Apple. The LENR revolution is far different than the personal computer revolution. With energy we know what the market is from a dollar point of view- at the inception of the personal computer- the market was a total unknown. Knowing the market size changes everything. To put it modestly I am bullish on LENR. Respectfully, Ron I live in Bucks County PA, a NYC financial commuter zone, and my wall street friends cautiously want to be kept in the LENR information loop.
Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
When is US soil US soil? Would a person be ineligible if the soil he was born on only became US soil after the person's birth? And what if the soil ceased being US soil after he was born? Instead of a simplistic rule, there should be some meaningful criteria for deciding eligibility. Harry On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:45 AM, Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: Jojo, I know US president must be born on US soil. I do not know enough about Citizenship law to know if the mother was eligible to confer Citizenship to her son, she was 18 at the time. Reading wikipedia seems to say she was eligible in 1961, but as we know wikipedia is far from complete. mic 2012/8/8 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com: Michele, two things: First, the Immigration laws were a bit different in 1963. Stanley Ann Dunham was too young to have conferred to Bambi U.S. Citizenship at that time. Second, Mere U.S. Citizenship does not qualify one to be President. The founding fathers specifically included Natural Born U.S. citizenship as a qualification for being POTUS. I trust you know the difference between a U.S. Citizen and a Natural Born U.S. Citizen. Even if bambi was a U.S. citizen (that fact alone is in doubt); he would still not be qualified unless he was Natural Born U.S. Citizen. Jojo - Original Message - From: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen 2012/8/8 MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net: Good debate! This is what freedom of speech is all about… “His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.” Agreed. His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), so it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning to the USA *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be a U.S. Citizen. If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would… I’m sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being POTUS someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the “in case he wanted to become President someday” argument… there is reason enough by just coming here. If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child to be a US citizen? I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments and evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps after the next election we’ll find out? Or not… -Mark From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Straw Man argument. First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all births in the newspaper. During that time, anyone can report a birth to Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii. Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth. Funny though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents. Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president. That's a straw man. His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still secret. He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone call to release his vault BC. Why hasn't he done it? All your eloquent reasons will not overcome this simple fact. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
and money. ;-) harry On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: why not a vote 2012/8/8 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com When is US soil US soil? Would a person be ineligible if the soil he was born on only became US soil after the person's birth? And what if the soil ceased being US soil after he was born? Instead of a simplistic rule, there should be some meaningful criteria for deciding eligibility. Harry On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:45 AM, Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: Jojo, I know US president must be born on US soil. I do not know enough about Citizenship law to know if the mother was eligible to confer Citizenship to her son, she was 18 at the time. Reading wikipedia seems to say she was eligible in 1961, but as we know wikipedia is far from complete. mic 2012/8/8 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com: Michele, two things: First, the Immigration laws were a bit different in 1963. Stanley Ann Dunham was too young to have conferred to Bambi U.S. Citizenship at that time. Second, Mere U.S. Citizenship does not qualify one to be President. The founding fathers specifically included Natural Born U.S. citizenship as a qualification for being POTUS. I trust you know the difference between a U.S. Citizen and a Natural Born U.S. Citizen. Even if bambi was a U.S. citizen (that fact alone is in doubt); he would still not be qualified unless he was Natural Born U.S. Citizen. Jojo - Original Message - From: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen 2012/8/8 MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net: Good debate! This is what freedom of speech is all about… “His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.” Agreed. His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), so it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning to the USA *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be a U.S. Citizen. If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would… I’m sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being POTUS someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the “in case he wanted to become President someday” argument… there is reason enough by just coming here. If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child to be a US citizen? I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments and evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps after the next election we’ll find out? Or not… -Mark From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Straw Man argument. First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all births in the newspaper. During that time, anyone can report a birth to Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii. Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth. Funny though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents. Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president. That's a straw man. His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still secret. He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone call to release his vault BC. Why hasn't he done it? All your eloquent reasons will not overcome this simple fact. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012
Akira Shirakawa wrote: Please watch this from minute 15:00 onward: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxjxFdFEBsw That's great! Finally, we are seeing some real progress. I think I'll put in the News section at LENR-CANR.org. If I have time today . . . I'll put a link to Krivit's report as well. - Jed
[Vo]:Communicating cold fusion needs more than words
The issue of communicating information about cold fusion is compounded by the digital environment in which no communication is possible a la Jean Baudrillard and Bob Neveritt. In no future world-line (that I can visualize) will the public be reading science papers on lenr.org; I don't see many journalists reading them either. They are for the few, the proud, the chosen,... Despite the massive typing that goes on each day, words are not the dominant form of communication. Words are too puny compared to the huge networks that move data on a planetary-scale. It is macroscopic gesticulation. We need images; pictures that describe; animations that explain. We need to communicate the /reality/ of this energy-producing reaction, and that it is safe and clean, through image. Jed is right. There is a HUGE untapped mountain of support for this technology. I am on the street talking to people about it on a regular basis. But the CF community is not communicating this science in a way that is easily consumed, and the public, needs it to be easy, or that's it. The popularity of WLT is IMHO not due to the actual process proposed, but the way in which the authors presented their ideas using graphics and easily consumed slides. It is simply easy-to-understand what they are saying. I ask, I beg, I beseech, anyone who has the ability, the capability, or the skills, to begin making pictures, computer animations: start modeling now. I wish I did. If you are a scientist or engineer, go to your local digital art institute and propose a project for art students modeling scientific processes. Go to your local university digital art department and propose a collaboration project. Help artists learn what to model, and we can have a communication tool that will go far beyond word-language. Communication of the new is a miracle, but not impossible. - Marshall McLuhan. -- Ruby Carat r...@coldfusionnow.org mailto:r...@coldfusionnow.org United States 1-707-616-4894 Skype ruby-carat www.coldfusionnow.org http://www.coldfusionnow.org
Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect
Ron Kita wrote: I read Woz and most recently I-Woz, and major corporations dismissed Apple on several accounts. I think it was an HP executive who said that there is no market for a personal computer. I think that was the head of DEC. Wozniak offered HP the IP to the apple, because he designed it while working for them. They said no thanks, you can have it. Woz had nothing but good things to say about HP is his autobiography. The company has a reputation for being nice to employees, and fair. Perhaps they underestimated the market but my guess is they also wanted to give a 20-something engineer a chance to succeed on his own. - Jed
[Vo]:My report on NIWeek
Written in a heck of a hurry: http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?p=1330 If anyone thinks I should add something such as a link speak up now. Although, since it is WordPress, I guess I can modify it from Korea or anywhere else. Busy, busy, busy. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Communicating cold fusion needs more than words
Ruby, I think your assessment of the information situation is a good one. The only thing I would tack on to your suggestion would be that digital artists with science backgrounds be employed. They DO exist. If I had the time I would avail my services. Unfortunately, I'm currently swamped with other priorities. For one thing, my own website is in dire need of a major overhaul. I'm still in the middle of wrestling with that task. To all you youngsters out there, seeking employment in the digital communication arts fields looks to be be a promising future. There ARE lucerative careers in the making here. Six figures in some cases. :-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012
Note that CEO Dr James Truchard is no newcomer to the field, with his interest beginning in 1989. Can't go back much further than that. Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names cold-fusion or LENR in favor of quantum reactor ... to me this is tacit admission that NI has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even close to commensurate with the excess heat produced. They have been involved with Rossi, Defkalion, and Celani so that makes me think this fellow has a lot of inside information to share - and we should encourage him to do a history of his involvement. -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell Akira Shirakawa wrote: Please watch this from minute 15:00 onward: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxjxFdFEBsw That's great! Finally, we are seeing some real progress. I think I'll put in the News section at LENR-CANR.org. If I have time today . . . I'll put a link to Krivit's report as well. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:e-cat at 1200°C
At 12:14 PM 8/7/2012, Michele Comitini wrote: Hot summer for Rossi. http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=679cpage=3#comment-296311 Also : http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=679cpage=3#comment-297077 Andrea Rossi August 7th, 2012 at 4:53 PM To Whom it may interest: After the validation of the Hot Cat made on July 16th we made today another Third Party Validation, with the Certificator: the results have been the same of the test made on July 16th. The power of the Hot Cat is 10 kW. The maximum temperature we reached has been 1 200 Celsius. Of this validation will be made an indipendent report which will be published soon. This test has been performed in the Product Validation Process that we have asked after the Safety Certification. This test has been directed by an indipendent Nuclear Engineer who is leading the certification processes of the industrial plants. We are extremely enthusiast of the work of today, because is the second time we get a third party validation in a month, getting the same results. Warm Regards, A.R. and Jake Di Vita August 8th, 2012 at 9:57 AM Dear Andrea Rossi, Is there a theoretical limit in your mind to the potential temperature of the Hot Cat? Andrea Rossi August 8th, 2012 at 10:04 AM Dear Jake Di Vita: There is a limit due to the fact that nickel melts at 1455 Celsius degrees, but we will have to heat water, so the actual limit will be 600 Celsius when we will go to make steam. At 600 Celsius the efficiency will be around 50%. Wre are working on this, now, with our Friends of Swedish Siemens Friends. When we told them we reached 1 200 Celsius they became lyric. Warm Regards, Andrea
Re: [Vo]:My report on NIWeek
On 2012-08-08 20:02, Jed Rothwell wrote: Written in a heck of a hurry: http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?p=1330 If anyone thinks I should add something such as a link speak up now. Celani's /paper/ is more like a lab report rather than a proper paper, in my opinion. As far as I understand he will make a better version at a later time. There are two non-watermarked high resolution photos here you could use: http://goo.gl/c8zsz You can see that the printed slides visible in these photos show text from the paper, which was probably originally supposed to be a presentation with charts, etc. rather than something of traditional scientific value (which might explain why it's so hard to read despite it being rather simple in content). Daniele Passerini added some information about Celani's demo here (google translated): http://goo.gl/v4Opj As for NIWeek, there still are a few LENR presentations planned. Maybe we'll see some videos of them in the official National Instruments Youtube video channel. Either way, it's not over yet. I'm also expecting (my speculation) Celani to write at a later time a full test report of his demonstrative cell which apparently never stopped working during this NIWeek event. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012
On 2012-08-08 20:23, Jones Beene wrote: Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names cold-fusion or LENR in favor of quantum reactor ... to me this is tacit admission that NI has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even close to commensurate with the excess heat produced. Or perhaps because LENR is not a very good acronym and contains the dreaded N-word. Cheers, S.A.
RE: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
As far as I know a child born to a US citizen is automatically also a citizen regardless of location of birth. I have grand daughters born in Switzerland who have dual citizenship. Ron --On Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:31 PM -0700 MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Good debate! This is what freedom of speech is all about… His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. Agreed. His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), so it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning to the USA *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be a U.S. Citizen. If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would… I'm sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being POTUS someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the in case he wanted to become President someday argument… there is reason enough by just coming here. If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child to be a US citizen? I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments and evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps after the next election we'll find out? Or not… -Mark From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Straw Man argument. First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all births in the newspaper. During that time, anyone can report a birth to Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii. Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth. Funny though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents. Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president. That's a straw man. His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still secret. He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone call to release his vault BC. Why hasn't he done it? All your eloquent reasons will not overcome this simple fact. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012
Dreaded or not dreaded, the process is nuclear. Just take a look to Piantelli's opuses or to the paradigm changing presentation of John Hadjichristos today at NI Week. Fortunately it is mildly and intelligently nuclear. Peter On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.comwrote: On 2012-08-08 20:23, Jones Beene wrote: Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names cold-fusion or LENR in favor of quantum reactor ... to me this is tacit admission that NI has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even close to commensurate with the excess heat produced. Or perhaps because LENR is not a very good acronym and contains the dreaded N-word. Cheers, S.A. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012
Peter, Can you cite a Piantelli paper where deuterium was absent, but where the transmutation products were well-correlated with excess energy? I think not. This is the same problem that Krivit finds with the lame correlation of helium to excess energy in Pd-D. I'm not saying that Krivit is correct on that, but he does make valid points about both the deficiency and sloppiness of reputed evidence. QM by itself - should provide measureable transmutation products, especially if there is deuterium tunneling or Oppenheimer stripping. Helium is ubiquitous to the extent it should always be seen. No one doubts some of both is there almost every time it is looked for. Problem is, the occurrence is miniscule, or either not well measured in proportionality, and in isotope mix, or is thousands of times too low to account for the thermal heat. Finding transmutation means nothing by itself, but measuring the mass of these products, and isotope ratio, mean everything. Bottom line - because of quantum mechanics alone the experimenter should find measurable transmutation and helium almost every time that hydrogen has been exposed to electric fields over time - but QM alone is responsible for them and in tiny amounts statistically - and thus the thermal gain which is seen in the run is most likely unrelated. From: Peter Gluck Dreaded or not dreaded, the process is nuclear. Just take a look to Piantelli's opuses or to the paradigm changing presentation of John Hadjichristos today at NI Week. Fortunately it is mildly and intelligently nuclear. Peter On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: On 2012-08-08 20:23, Jones Beene wrote: Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names cold-fusion or LENR in favor of quantum reactor ... to me this is tacit admission that NI has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even close to commensurate with the excess heat produced. Or perhaps because LENR is not a very good acronym and contains the dreaded N-word. Cheers, S.A. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:My report on NIWeek
Jed, You will meet Celani in Korea. Ask him the detailed report he promised. mic Il giorno 08/ago/2012 20:26, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com ha scritto: On 2012-08-08 20:02, Jed Rothwell wrote: Written in a heck of a hurry: http://lenr-canr.org/**wordpress/?p=1330http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?p=1330 If anyone thinks I should add something such as a link speak up now. Celani's /paper/ is more like a lab report rather than a proper paper, in my opinion. As far as I understand he will make a better version at a later time. There are two non-watermarked high resolution photos here you could use: http://goo.gl/c8zsz You can see that the printed slides visible in these photos show text from the paper, which was probably originally supposed to be a presentation with charts, etc. rather than something of traditional scientific value (which might explain why it's so hard to read despite it being rather simple in content). Daniele Passerini added some information about Celani's demo here (google translated): http://goo.gl/v4Opj As for NIWeek, there still are a few LENR presentations planned. Maybe we'll see some videos of them in the official National Instruments Youtube video channel. Either way, it's not over yet. I'm also expecting (my speculation) Celani to write at a later time a full test report of his demonstrative cell which apparently never stopped working during this NIWeek event. Cheers, S.A.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:e-cat at 1200°C
Rossi sez: ... To Whom it may interest: After the validation of the Hot Cat made on July 16th we made today another Third Party Validation, with the Certificator: the results have been the same of the test made on July 16th. The power of the Hot Cat is 10 kW. The maximum temperature we reached has been 1 200 Celsius. Of this validation will be made an indipendent report which will be published soon. This test has been performed in the Product Validation Process that we have asked after the Safety Certification. This test has been directed by an indipendent Nuclear Engineer who is leading the certification processes of the industrial plants. We are extremely enthusiast of the work of today, because is the second time we get a third party validation in a month, getting the same results. Warm Regards, A.R. Sounds good - as far as sounding good goes. Wish we knew how independent these third party validators realy are. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:My report on NIWeek
Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: Celani's /paper/ is more like a lab report rather than a proper paper, in my opinion. As far as I understand he will make a better version at a later time. I'll just change out the paper in the library. There are two non-watermarked high resolution photos here you could use: http://goo.gl/c8zsz Nice photos! I like where it says HOT! Do not touch. Maybe I will link to this. As for NIWeek, there still are a few LENR presentations planned. Maybe we'll see some videos of them in the official National Instruments Youtube video channel. Either way, it's not over yet. When it ends I will update this News item. I will probably change the tense from will bring the demonstration to brought. I can always change these News items. Or expand them. It is a piece of cake with WordPress. I do not feel they have to remain static, as originally published. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:My report on NIWeek
Regarding: http://goo.gl/c8zsz Click on images for full-sized pix. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012
dear Jones, Pisntelli (and FYI the Defkalion process) does not work with deuterium- not at all. It is rather difficult to determine the transmutation products at the Piantelli process. DGTG in their process they are using very good analytical techniques but it is difficult to calculate the correlations due to the extreme complexity of the raections. Both transmutaions and nucleosynthesis takes place and both contribute to the heat energy. Peter On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Peter, ** ** Can you cite a Piantelli paper where deuterium was absent, but where the transmutation products were well-correlated with excess energy? ** ** I think not. This is the same problem that Krivit finds with the lame correlation of helium to excess energy in Pd-D. I’m not saying that Krivit is correct on that, but he does make valid points about both the deficiency and sloppiness of reputed evidence. ** ** QM by itself – should provide measureable transmutation products, especially if there is deuterium tunneling or Oppenheimer stripping. Helium is ubiquitous to the extent it should always be seen. No one doubts some of both is there almost every time it is looked for. ** ** Problem is, the occurrence is miniscule, or either not well measured in proportionality, and in isotope mix, or is thousands of times too low to account for the thermal heat. Finding transmutation means nothing by itself, but measuring the mass of these products, and isotope ratio, mean everything. ** ** Bottom line – because of quantum mechanics alone the experimenter should find measurable transmutation and helium almost every time that hydrogen has been exposed to electric fields over time - but QM alone is responsible for them and in tiny amounts statistically - and thus the thermal gain which is seen in the run is most likely unrelated. ** ** ** ** *From:* Peter Gluck ** ** Dreaded or not dreaded, the process is nuclear. Just take a look to Piantelli's opuses or to the paradigm changing presentation of John Hadjichristos today at NI Week. Fortunately it is mildly and intelligently nuclear. ** ** Peter On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: On 2012-08-08 20:23, Jones Beene wrote: Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names cold-fusion or LENR in favor of quantum reactor ... to me this is tacit admission that NI has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even close to commensurate with the excess heat produced. ** ** Or perhaps because LENR is not a very good acronym and contains the dreaded N-word. Cheers, S.A. ** ** -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com ** ** -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:My report on NIWeek
On 2012-08-08 21:21, Jed Rothwell wrote: Nice photos! I like where it says HOT! Do not touch. Maybe I will link to this. I forgot this photo from PESN [1] too: http://goo.gl/uh0Je I think you already know every person there, but from left to right they should be: Alexandros Xanthoulis (Defkalion GT founder) Frank Gordon (SPAWAR) Andrea Aparo (Ansaldo Energia spa) Peter Hagelstein (MIT) James Truchard (National Instruments co-founder and CEO) Michael McKubre (SRI International) Robert Godes (Brillouin Energy Corp.) Stefano Concezzi (National Instruments – Big Science director) Robert Duncan (University of Missouri) Cheers, S.A. [1] Original article: http://pesn.com/2012/08/08/9602156_Mainstream_Coverage_of_Fleischmanns_Death_Mentions_Nothing_of_Technology_Nearing_Marketplace/
Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Ron Kita chiralex.k...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Steve, This was the financial cable show CNBC Squawk and Joe Kernan, host, made the comment at 7:10AM. Not sure If there is an on-line transcript. There is, at the site I referenced. It was obviously done in haste since they translated the comment to coal fusion. :-) T
[Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag
Just a couple of quick corrections to my previous draft My first instance of 1-8 keV should have read 1-8 TeV (it was correct in the second usage) and A negatively charged singularity would feed preferentially from POSITIVELY charged particles instead of negatively. Sorry for the confusion. On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: All, I understand that National Instruments is now calling this a quantum reactor. I have attached a draft of what I believe, without a doubt is the primary Nuclear process formerly known as Cold Fusion or LENR. May they, along with Martin, RIP. There are three primary forms of Nuclear energy in the world, Fission, Fusion Singularity (Black Hole) Evaporation. The first two can hopefully be retired. Excuse the quality of the draft but you will get the idea. I weighed heavily on a recent CERN study by Chan on black hole creation concerns at the LHC. I would like to have somebody sponsor me on publishing my summary to Arxiv (after I clean it up some). I am going to follow up with some calculations once I brush up on my particle and quantum physics math... It is a beautiful day, don't let it slip away (U2 Bono) Stewart D. Simonson cheme...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect
I rather suspect that HP did not think that they could make a major profit in this new field. No one estimated the future potential of small computers at that time. Remember the IBM decision to not own their PC operating system due to low volume projections. The first cellular telephones were intended for vehicle operation but now the vast majority are handheld. Few people have the ability to see into the future far enough to put their careers on the line by suggesting that a major push be directed into the unknown. We are seeing the same process unfold in our LENR field. No one currently builds these types of devices so none of the big boys are willing to take an expensive chance. Once products become available openly and proven and purchase volumes accelerate they will jump in like a pack of wolves on a buffalo. We should see this action most likely within the next year by my estimate if we can get Rossi or DGT to cooperate. It might not be a bad idea to keep some investment funds available for the big ride that is surely coming. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:54 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect Ron Kita wrote: I read Woz and most recently I-Woz, and major corporations dismissed Apple on several accounts. I think it was an HP executive who said thatthere is no market for a personal computer. I think that was the head of DEC. Wozniak offered HP the IP to the apple, because he designed it while working for them. They said no thanks, you can have it. Woz hadnothing but good things to say about HP is his autobiography. Thecompany has a reputation for being nice to employees, and fair.Perhaps they underestimated the market but my guess is they alsowanted to give a 20-something engineer a chance to succeed on hisown. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012 + NANOR Status
At 10:16 AM 8/8/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote: Akira Shirakawa wrote: Please watch this from minute 15:00 onward: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxjxFdFEBsw There's a rough transcript at http://ecatnews.com/?p=2291 Photo of some attendees and ID's ... including Alexandros Xanthoulis (Defkalion GT founder) A lot of comments (cautiously) optimistic on Celani and Hagelstein, now totally against Rossi. Nicholas Payne Reply August 8, 2012 at 6:09 pm I just emailed his [Hagelstein's] secretary Ms Davco who says the NANOR is out being tested elsewhere, but he hopes to have a better demo of it at MIT later this year.
[Vo]:Celani's recent work - great SEM pics
There are some real nice SEM piccys here: http://www.iscmns.org/work10/Celani.pdf And also very detailed drawings of the reactor. -Mark
RE: [Vo]:Celani's recent work - great SEM pics
Oops, my mistake. This paper is about the work up to April 2012, and uses a larger reactor than what was shown at NIWeek. -mi From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:11 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Celani's recent work - great SEM pics There are some real nice SEM piccys here: http://www.iscmns.org/work10/Celani.pdf And also very detailed drawings of the reactor. -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I rather suspect that HP did not think that they could make a major profit in this new field. That is somewhat true . . . but they were not stupid. They later jumped in in plenty of time to make money. The early history of microcomputers is well documented. You can learn what they said, and did. No one estimated the future potential of small computers at that time. That is incorrect. I know of at least three people who did: Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and me. Okay, there were thousands of others. Seriously, the rapid increase in sales did not surprise me a bit. Only two things have surprised me about the development of small computers: 1. The tremendous increase in the size of hard disks. The price/performance has improved much more than microprocessors or Internet bandwidth. NHK recently reported that there are now more bytes of data recorded than there are grains of sand on all the beaches of earth. That's astounding! 2. The lack of progress in operating system software. Windows is not much better than Data General RDOS, circa 1980. A modern laptop is nothing but at minicomputer with a bag on it, and I don't mean that in a good way. In the book I wrote: A personal computer is essentially a 1979 minicomputer with a flashy but unreliable operating system grafted onto it. Programmers in 1979 were able to master personal computers in a few hours, and to this day personal computers have no functions or capabilities that would baffle a programmer from that era. A programmer from that era meaning myself, obviously. That is not quite true. I am impressed by voice input. I am astounded by robotics such as Google's self-driving automobile, and the Mars Curiosity rover. That stuff, by golly, makes you realize this is the 21st century. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Storms talk at NPA-19 video
On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Ruby r...@hush.com wrote: Thanks for the comments. Ruby, Excellent! One thing I found interesting is that Ed did not speak of CANR (chemically assisted nuclear reaction). I wonder if his new crack theory has changed his view? T
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8feature=player_detailpage Rohnermachine.com Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos. The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed above. In it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp technology. Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking which are interesting. The demo shows the device that McKubre used to appraise the Papp reaction in a 20 minute private evaluation with Mike. At 1: 03 into the long video, McKubre states his position as an advocate of the Papp engine stating that it is based on a nuclear process. McHubre sites Cecil Baumgartner a first hand witness to the Feynman test for his initial interest in the engine. A first hand eye witness to the Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo said Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community. As a personal opinion, McKubre deserves some credit, He has a open mind and is not fixated on the deuterium LENR reaction. Cheers: Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Axil, I am not acquainted with this engine. You wrote - After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)? Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades? If so, have RF-emissions been characterized? Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the phenomenon can be observed better? I would be interested in answers to any of these questions - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil^2 wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his “Noble Gas Plasma Engine”. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of the Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters which provide the energy to expand the gases. The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful Work from the Fuel. There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems to keep recycling through the new energy community. Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called “inteligentry, LTD” to simply and optimized the Papp process. He will license his prototype for mass production shortly uses the Rossi type “try it before you buy it money back guaranty”. It looks to me like the Papp engine uses the same basic electron screening LERN principles as the Rossi reactor. In the Papp engine, helium is the fuel and Argon is the catalyst. Jim Kettner is very open about his technology since most of it is in the public domain.
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Axil, In case you are familiar with the history of this, I have a few questions - Who invited Papp to do the test at Cal Tech? How long did the engine continue to work after the power was removed? If so, could it have been running on battery, or some other storage unit? Was any evidence found in the debris that indicated fraud? How has McKubre tested the engine? -- Lou Pagnucco Axil wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8feature=player_detailpage Rohnermachine.com Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos. The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed above. In it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp technology. Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking which are interesting. The demo shows the device that McKubre used to appraise the Papp reaction in a 20 minute private evaluation with Mike. At 1: 03 into the long video, McKubre states his position as an advocate of the Papp engine stating that it is based on a nuclear process. McHubre sites Cecil Baumgartner a first hand witness to the Feynman test for his initial interest in the engine. A first hand eye witness to the Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo said Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community. As a personal opinion, McKubre deserves some credit, He has a open mind and is not fixated on the deuterium LENR reaction. Cheers: Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Axil, I am not acquainted with this engine. You wrote - After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)? Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades? If so, have RF-emissions been characterized? Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the phenomenon can be observed better? I would be interested in answers to any of these questions - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil^2 wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his Noble Gas Plasma Engine. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of the Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters which provide the energy to expand the gases. The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful Work from the Fuel. There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems to keep recycling through the new energy community. Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called inteligentry, LTD to simply and
Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect
OK, so some engineers and technical people did expect a pretty large volume of PC sales. Too bad you did not act on your assumption or you might be another of the billionaires on record. I would guess that you may have thought that the volume would be enormous, but were not sure. Many of us are in that camp. I was in the radio communications world at the time and stood by watching as these machines took over. I would hate to make the same mistake when LENR takes off. We are both on record expecting these devices to become incredibly important and widespread in the near future. I hope to invest at the right time if I can only determine where. I agree, the wondrous advancement in hard drive technology as well as device speed and power consumption made a lot of difference. I still have an old ATT computer to stare at that had a hard drive that would not even hold one modern program. The darn thing cost twice as much as a new one today that is millions of times more powerful. But the old boy did some useful work. I used that old ATT upstairs to design the first practical EAS receiver device that now is seen everywhere (Ultramax). My model matched the actual operation to a remarkable degree and made the company I was working with very wealthy. I have noticed that large companies tend to suppress innovation, particularly when it involves significant risk of capital. The brave engineers are usually clamoring to move forward only to be punished by management that is afraid of change. I found myself in that position on many occasions and when we overcame the inertia we generated many successful products. I could go on for a long time on this subject, but will only mention one more. I was in technical charge of a large group that designed all of the receivers and synthesizers for a company that wanted to keep their second market position because it was safer and less expensive. The large company in the field designed a new radio that had very good specifications and performance. The internal product planning group was lagging behind as usual before the new requirements were given to engineering. In my frustration, I just handed a manual of that new product to one of my new engineers who was ready to begin his work and told him to make one like that. To this day he teases me about this but the specifications were exactly the same. Working for startups has great rewards as well as risks. Working for established large companies has less of both. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I rather suspect that HP did not think that they could make a major profit in this new field. That is somewhat true . . . but they were not stupid. They later jumped in in plenty of time to make money. The early history of microcomputers is well documented. You can learn what they said, and did. No one estimated the future potential of small computers at that time. That is incorrect. I know of at least three people who did: Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and me. Okay, there were thousands of others. Seriously, the rapid increase in sales did not surprise me a bit. Only two things have surprised me about the development of small computers: 1. The tremendous increase in the size of hard disks. The price/performance has improved much more than microprocessors or Internet bandwidth. NHK recently reported that there are now more bytes of data recorded than there are grains of sand on all the beaches of earth. That's astounding! 2. The lack of progress in operating system software. Windows is not much better than Data General RDOS, circa 1980. A modern laptop is nothing but at minicomputer with a bag on it, and I don't mean that in a good way. In the book I wrote: A personal computer is essentially a 1979 minicomputer with a flashy but unreliable operating system grafted onto it. Programmers in 1979 were able to master personal computers in a few hours, and to this day personal computers have no functions or capabilities that would baffle a programmer from that era. A programmer from that era meaning myself, obviously. That is not quite true. I am impressed by voice input. I am astounded by robotics such as Google's self-driving automobile, and the Mars Curiosity rover. That stuff, by golly, makes you realize this is the 21st century. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
I am at the beginning of my study of the Papp effect so I will answer you as I verity the info that is out there. In the Tesla Video, McKubre said that Bob Rohner took the engine completely apart in the middle of a demo and said it was totally clean of fraud. The longest that Bob Rohner saw the engine run was a week as told by McKubre. McKubre's endorsement was very strong and he virtually assured that no fraud was involved. From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Cheers:Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 6:54 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Axil, In case you are familiar with the history of this, I have a few questions - Who invited Papp to do the test at Cal Tech? How long did the engine continue to work after the power was removed? If so, could it have been running on battery, or some other storage unit? Was any evidence found in the debris that indicated fraud? How has McKubre tested the engine? -- Lou Pagnucco Axil wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8feature=player_detailpage Rohnermachine.com Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos. The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed above. In it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp technology. Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking which are interesting. The demo shows the device that McKubre used to appraise the Papp reaction in a 20 minute private evaluation with Mike. At 1: 03 into the long video, McKubre states his position as an advocate of the Papp engine stating that it is based on a nuclear process. McHubre sites Cecil Baumgartner a first hand witness to the Feynman test for his initial interest in the engine. A first hand eye witness to the Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo said Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community. As a personal opinion, McKubre deserves some credit, He has a open mind and is not fixated on the deuterium LENR reaction. Cheers: Axil On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Axil, I am not acquainted with this engine. You wrote - After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their elasticity. Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)? Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades? If so, have RF-emissions been characterized? Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the phenomenon can be observed better? I would be interested in answers to any of these questions - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect. -- Lou Pagnucco Axil^2 wrote: *Noble Gas Plasma Engine * In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his “Noble Gas Plasma Engine”. A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and xenon) fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage discharge in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston. This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement. After the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and density, and the cycle is repeated. Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour . Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper end modifications. Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each cylinder every sixty thousand miles. Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives of the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from apparent neutron radiation from his engine. There were indications that such an engine could provide its own electrical power and being a closed
Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: OK, so some engineers and technical people did expect a pretty large volume of PC sales. Yup. They made it happen. They risked inventing cheap printers, for example, hoping there would be a mass market for them. Too bad you did not act on your assumption or you might be another of the billionaires on record. I did the best I could! I did okay. In a boom like that, there are as many way to lose money as there are to make it. If cold fusion starts to boom, remember that. Look at solar cells now. I stayed clear of the dot-com boom because every time I looked a company I thought to myself, I could do that easily. If I can do it, any competent programmer can, so where is the competitive advantage? I was right about most of them, but way wrong about Amazon! I should have bought their stock. I know nothing about the stock market, so I steer clear of it. The thing is, I thought WordPerfect was a lot better than Microsoft Word. They are all but dead and gone so I guess product quality is not the right metric. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
Jojo: I never thought I'd see 0bama's birth certificate debated here on Vortex. You've made it a fascinating place to visit for more than one reason. Regarding #2, who can blame 0bama for holding back his birth certificate when he hasn't been forced to do so? This begs the question of who forces him to do so... Regarding #1, it seems so simple. It was the responsibility of the Supreme Court of the US to determine his eligibility, per the 20th amendment: Section 3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified. Notice that the order of events is spelled out: if the President elect shall have failed to qualify. That means the qualification takes place AFTER the General Public votes, and even AFTER the Electoral College. It also shows explicitly that the ELECTION RESULTS ARE SUBORDINATE TO QUALIFICATION. Further resources and copies of the constitution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html It is the US Supreme Court who threw our republic into this constitutional tailspin. 0bama did what any selfish politician would do. But Supreme Court members are given lifetime appointments so they can be free from the political ramifications of their decisions. Their JOB is to uphold the constitution. Period. They didn't do it. They threw this republic down the drain so that they could enjoy warm smiles at Washington DC cocktail parties. You may enjoy this birth certificate thread I started on Intrade. It is the most-read thread in Intrade's history. In particular, I wonder how you would answer the hypotheticals I asked about Caesar crossing the Rubicon? https://bb.intrade.com/intradeForum/posts/list/570/2279.page#37978 Kevmo --- On Wed, 8/8/12, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, August 8, 2012, 3:15 AM Michele, a Natural Born US citizen must fulfill 2 things: 1. Must be born to two US citizen parents. 2. Must be born in US soil. Surely bambi does not qualify for number 1. His alleged father was not a US citizen Second, there is significant question as to where he was actually born. He refuses to release his original vault BC. All we have is a poorly photoshopped copy of his BC, which is surely a fake. Jojo - Original Message - From: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Jojo, I know US president must be born on US soil. I do not know enough about Citizenship law to know if the mother was eligible to confer Citizenship to her son, she was 18 at the time. Reading wikipedia seems to say she was eligible in 1961, but as we know wikipedia is far from complete. mic 2012/8/8 Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com: Michele, two things: First, the Immigration laws were a bit different in 1963. Stanley Ann Dunham was too young to have conferred to Bambi U.S. Citizenship at that time. Second, Mere U.S. Citizenship does not qualify one to be President. The founding fathers specifically included Natural Born U.S. citizenship as a qualification for being POTUS. I trust you know the difference between a U.S. Citizen and a Natural Born U.S. Citizen. Even if bambi was a U.S. citizen (that fact alone is in doubt); he would still not be qualified unless he was Natural Born U.S. Citizen. Jojo - Original Message - From: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:14 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen 2012/8/8 MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net: Good debate! This is what freedom of speech is all about… “His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.” Agreed. His
Re: [Vo]:Report in US News not bad
On 2012-08-08 19:08, Jed Rothwell wrote: See: http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-the-edge/2012/08/08/new-burst-of-energy-could-bring-cold-fusion-to-front-burner How popular / mainstream is that site? And what about oilprice.com? I've read it cover some Rossi news a couple times over the past year, but it appears Celani's demo at NIWeek triggered their interested too: http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/Yet-Another-Successful-LENR-Device-Enters-the-Race.html Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Celani's recent work - great SEM pics
On 2012-08-08 22:20, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Oops, my mistake. This paper is about the work up to April 2012, and uses a larger reactor than what was shown at NIWeek… -mi I think it's still relevant in this case, however. The NIWeek Celani demo appears to be just a simpler, smaller, stripped down portable version using the same active material (pre-treated ISOTAN44). Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Report in US News not bad
US News and World Report was once one of the big 3 US news magazines, along with Time and Newsweek. A few years ago, circulation declines let to the magazine going to a biweekly, or maybe even monthly publication, so it is not as big a name as it used to be -- but it would still be considered a mainstream publication. Best, Frank On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.comwrote: On 2012-08-08 19:08, Jed Rothwell wrote: See: http://www.usnews.com/news/**blogs/at-the-edge/2012/08/08/** new-burst-of-energy-could-**bring-cold-fusion-to-front-**burnerhttp://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-the-edge/2012/08/08/new-burst-of-energy-could-bring-cold-fusion-to-front-burner How popular / mainstream is that site? And what about oilprice.com? I've read it cover some Rossi news a couple times over the past year, but it appears Celani's demo at NIWeek triggered their interested too: http://oilprice.com/**Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-** Power/Yet-Another-Successful-**LENR-Device-Enters-the-Race.**htmlhttp://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/Yet-Another-Successful-LENR-Device-Enters-the-Race.html Cheers, S.A. -- Frank Acland Publisher, E-Cat World http://www.e-catworld.com Author, The Secret Power Beneath https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine - Feynman
At 04:12 PM 8/8/2012, Axil Axil wrote: A first hand eye witness to the Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo said Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community. Feynman's account is at http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle2.html
[Vo]:NIWeek 2012 video: Anomalous Heat Effects
Hello group, This is from National Instruments' official Youtube Channel. - Youtube link: http://goo.gl/WLwhZ Anomalous Heat Effects Listen as Dr. Duncan and Greg Morrow talk about our need to expand our experimental approach to develop more research on anomalous heat effects. These effects have been referred to as 'cold fusion' and 'low-energy nuclear reactions' in the past, but these names imply an understanding of the physical origin of these anomalous effects that in fact does not yet exist. NI LabVIEW is at the heart of each of these experiments that may help develop and unravel the mysteries of the many theories. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine - Feynman,Video
Feynman's account is at http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle2.html Infinite Energy description : http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html Papp demonstrating his engine with a dynonometer : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wZqDQ7Pjg
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw. I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! –Jouni
RE: [Vo]:Report in US News not bad
Thanks Frank - good to see more and more mainstream acceptance happening. I imagine it will take a lot more to persuade TIME magazine to come to the party. Original Message Subject: Re: [Vo]:Report in US News not bad From: Frank Acland ecatwo...@gmail.com Date: Thu, August 09, 2012 9:59 am To: vortex-l@eskimo.com US News and World Report was once one of the big 3 US news magazines, along with Time and Newsweek. A few years ago, circulation declines let to the magazine going to a biweekly, or maybe even monthly publication, so it is not as big a name as it used to be -- but it would still be considered a mainstream publication. Best,FrankOn Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: On 2012-08-08 19:08, Jed Rothwell wrote: See: http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-the-edge/2012/08/08/new-burst-of-energy-could-bring-cold-fusion-to-front-burnerHow popular / mainstream is that site? And what about oilprice.com? I've read it cover some Rossi news a couple times over the past year, but it appears Celani's demo at NIWeek triggered their interested too: http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/Yet-Another-Successful-LENR-Device-Enters-the-Race.html Cheers, S.A. -- Frank AclandPublisher, E-Cat WorldAuthor, The Secret Power Beneath
Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
That is incorrect Ron. A child of one US citizen does not automatically become a US citizen. He has to choose which parent's citizenship he wants when he reaches 21. Besides, Stanley Ann Dunham was too young to have conferred US citizenship to Bambi when he was born. And a Dual Citizen is classified automatically as NOT a Natural-Born US Citizen. A child born out of 2 US citizens but born out of US soil, can be a US citizen but not a Natural-Born US Citizen A child born in US soil, but to non-US citizens, may become a US citizen but not a Natural-Born US Citizen. A child born in US soil, but to only 1 US citizen parent, must choose which citizenship he wants when he reaches 21. He may choose both and become a Dual Citizen, but he is certainly NOT a Natural-Born US citizen. But mere US citizenship does not qualify one to be president. He has to be Natural-Born US citizen. Which means a child of 2 US citizens and born on US soil. One theory says that a Natural Born US Citizen is one wherein he does not have to take any special action to get his US citizenship. If Bambi has to choose US Citizenship, then he is automatically not a Natural-Born US citizen. And this would be the case with Bambi, because he was an Indonesian Citizen when he was a child. But since, he was not yet 21 at that time, he did not have to make a specific choice. When he reached 21, he should have made that choice. If he did not, then he is still an Illegal Alien in this country. But none of this can be resolved because criminal-in-chief has a gag order on all agencies and private entities to keep his records secret. Question is, WHY? Jojo - Original Message - From: Ron Wormus prot...@frii.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 2:28 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy As far as I know a child born to a US citizen is automatically also a citizen regardless of location of birth. I have grand daughters born in Switzerland who have dual citizenship. Ron --On Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:31 PM -0700 MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Good debate! This is what freedom of speech is all about… His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. Agreed. His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), so it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning to the USA *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be a U.S. Citizen. If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would… I'm sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being POTUS someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the in case he wanted to become President someday argument… there is reason enough by just coming here. If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child to be a US citizen? I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments and evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps after the next election we'll find out? Or not… -Mark From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Straw Man argument. First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all births in the newspaper. During that time, anyone can report a birth to Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii. Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth. Funny though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents. Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president. That's a straw man. His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship. No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason. But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still secret. He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone call to release his vault BC. Why hasn't he done it? All your eloquent reasons will not overcome this simple fact. Jojo
Re: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag
Stewart, send it over to Vortex-L and many here will look it over. I for one are very interested in looking at this new theory. Jojo - Original Message - From: Chemical Engineer To: c...@googlegroups.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 3:49 AM Subject: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag Just a couple of quick corrections to my previous draft My first instance of 1-8 keV should have read 1-8 TeV (it was correct in the second usage) and A negatively charged singularity would feed preferentially from POSITIVELY charged particles instead of negatively. Sorry for the confusion. On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com wrote: All, I understand that National Instruments is now calling this a quantum reactor. I have attached a draft of what I believe, without a doubt is the primary Nuclear process formerly known as Cold Fusion or LENR. May they, along with Martin, RIP. There are three primary forms of Nuclear energy in the world, Fission, Fusion Singularity (Black Hole) Evaporation. The first two can hopefully be retired. Excuse the quality of the draft but you will get the idea. I weighed heavily on a recent CERN study by Chan on black hole creation concerns at the LHC. I would like to have somebody sponsor me on publishing my summary to Arxiv (after I clean it up some). I am going to follow up with some calculations once I brush up on my particle and quantum physics math... It is a beautiful day, don't let it slip away (U2 Bono) Stewart D. Simonson cheme...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine - Feynman,Video
At 05:05 PM 8/8/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote: Feynman's account is at http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle2.html Infinite Energy description : http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html Papp demonstrating his engine with a dynonometer : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wZqDQ7Pjg The video is discussed at : http://hutchisoneffect.ca/Academy_Video%20of%20Jimmy%20Sabori%27s%20Papp%20Engine%20Variants%20-%20PESWiki.htm New Energy Congress member, and science advisor to PES Network, Ken Rauen, who has had extensive direct involvement with the Joseph Papp engine technology, says that what is shown below as a working device is not Sabori's work, but that of Joseph Papp, and that Sabori's work is not worth chasing. He provides some background in who's who in the field, including some developments that are imminent.
Re: [Vo]:NIWeek 2012 video: Anomalous Heat Effects
On 2012-08-09 02:00, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, This is from National Instruments' official Youtube Channel. After watching it in its entirety (I admit I didn't before posting the link here) I can definitely say it's not a very informative video for long-time LENR followers and it understandably mostly focuses on how NI products are great for such applications. Yet, I think for most of the audience it must have been quite a news that there still are researchers studying cold fusion and that the field is apparently being taken seriously by big names and NI. I wonder if videos from other LENR segments (from Defkalion, Takahashi, Brillouin and other LENR researchers in the Big Physics panel) will be posted too. After watching some ones from the NI Youtube channel I'm suspecting this venue mostly serves as an advertising platform for NI and I doubt DGT, BEC, etc. went to NIWeek2012 to make presentations mostly about NI products. But I guess it could be the case, seeing what was discussed in Duncan's short oveview. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag
Jojo, Thanks. It is a very elegant and simple explanation (I guess that is why it is called a singularity). Einstein in his final years worked in this area. Hawking/Penrose should be thanked as well as all of the others now working on it. In truth, we have been surrounded by the process daily when lightning strikes and electrical currents ebb and flow. We have been given a 3rd gift of Nuclear Energy, I hope we do better than we have with the first two. The nuclear discharge from a singularity is truly the stuff universes are made of and we now have that power. To that which much is given, much is expected. I hope we as a race live up to that expectation. Godspeed On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** Stewart, send it over to Vortex-L and many here will look it over. I for one are very interested in looking at this new theory. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com *To:* c...@googlegroups.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 3:49 AM *Subject:* [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag Just a couple of quick corrections to my previous draft My first instance of 1-8 keV should have read 1-8 TeV (it was correct in the second usage) and A negatively charged singularity would feed preferentially from POSITIVELY charged particles instead of negatively. Sorry for the confusion. On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: All, I understand that National Instruments is now calling this a quantum reactor. I have attached a draft of what I believe, without a doubt is the primary Nuclear process formerly known as Cold Fusion or LENR. May they, along with Martin, RIP. There are three primary forms of Nuclear energy in the world, Fission, Fusion Singularity (Black Hole) Evaporation. The first two can hopefully be retired. Excuse the quality of the draft but you will get the idea. I weighed heavily on a recent CERN study by Chan on black hole creation concerns at the LHC. I would like to have somebody sponsor me on publishing my summary to Arxiv (after I clean it up some). I am going to follow up with some calculations once I brush up on my particle and quantum physics math... It is a beautiful day, don't let it slip away (U2 Bono) Stewart D. Simonson cheme...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect
Those were exciting days. I was hesitant to become more deeply involved by similar logic as you Jed. The peak always appeared to be just over the horizon and I was sure that I would jump in too late! I guess that Apple almost went under at least once, to be rescued by their arch enemy. I suspect that was done to protect a certain unmentioned company from being declared a monopoly. Had Apple's OS disappeared, there would not be many good volume sources. We need to be prudent when investing in LENR companies. Perhaps members of the vortex can work together to determine the best opportunities. At least we should benefit from our organization! You know, I as you recall looking at the early generation OSs and realizing that they were not anything super special and that either of us could have matched or exceeded the performance of them in relatively short order. The most successful of them won the match by name recognition in my opinion. Things could have gone in other directions fairly easily. Just thinking with that logic kept me on the sidelines waiting for new developments which never materialized. The OSs improved enormously over the years and it became a major task to achieve that level of performance without a very large team of programmers. A small team had an almost zero chance of competing successfully once things got rolling. I got lazy fairly soon and began to program with visual aids which took a lot of the skill out of programming. I still occasionally use assembly with microcontrollers to enjoy total control over the devices. Dave P.S. Don't make me afraid to invest in the cold fusion companies Jed! The trick is to pick the best ones and I am counting upon our friends to assist us. -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 7:54 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: OK, so some engineers and technical people did expect a pretty large volume of PC sales. Yup. They made it happen. They risked inventing cheap printers, for example, hoping there would be a mass market for them. Too bad you did not act on your assumption or you might be another of the billionaires on record. I did the best I could! I did okay. In a boom like that, there are as many way to lose money as there are to make it. If cold fusion starts to boom, remember that. Look at solar cells now. I stayed clear of the dot-com boom because every time I looked a company I thought to myself, I could do that easily. If I can do it, any competent programmer can, so where is the competitive advantage? I was right about most of them, but way wrong about Amazon! I should have bought their stock. I know nothing about the stock market, so I steer clear of it. The thing is, I thought WordPerfect was a lot better than Microsoft Word. They are all but dead and gone so I guess product quality is not the right metric. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Guys, The energy from this device would come from the atomic gas ion collisions in the approx 1 TeV to 8 TeV range and should produce singularities (ion collapse) which quickly evaporate releasing nuclear energy. Just enough and it will purr like a Schrodinger kitten. Too many singularities or ones with too large event horizons and she blows... On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw. I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! –Jouni
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Guys, The energy from this device would come from the atomic gas ion collisions in the approx 1 TeV to 8 TeV range and should produce singularities (ion collapse) which quickly evaporate releasing nuclear energy. Just enough and it will purr like a Schrodinger kitten. Too many singularities or ones with too large event horizons and she blows... On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw. I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! –Jouni
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
You response confuses me. Jouni said: *Better, are you serious?* Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: *This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.* Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: *Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs.* Axil states: I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine. Journi said: *Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi.* Axil states: Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and eccentric. Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 years, a very long time. John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged enough to bring the engine to market. Journi said: *I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus!* Axil states: Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of him and Rohner is way ahead of them all. The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get that far in commercialization. The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that... from the standpoint of commercialization. LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a technology. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw. I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! –Jouni
RE: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag
Hell yes send it over here! The Collective is all about discussing the fringes. we don't have to worry about 'academic' or 'professional' reputations, so we're open to most all things. and hopefully backed up with some data. -Mark Iverson From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:32 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag Stewart, send it over to Vortex-L and many here will look it over. I for one are very interested in looking at this new theory. Jojo - Original Message - From: Chemical Engineer mailto:cheme...@gmail.com To: c...@googlegroups.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 3:49 AM Subject: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag Just a couple of quick corrections to my previous draft My first instance of 1-8 keV should have read 1-8 TeV (it was correct in the second usage) and A negatively charged singularity would feed preferentially from POSITIVELY charged particles instead of negatively. Sorry for the confusion. On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com wrote: All, I understand that National Instruments is now calling this a quantum reactor. I have attached a draft of what I believe, without a doubt is the primary Nuclear process formerly known as Cold Fusion or LENR. May they, along with Martin, RIP. There are three primary forms of Nuclear energy in the world, Fission, Fusion Singularity (Black Hole) Evaporation. The first two can hopefully be retired. Excuse the quality of the draft but you will get the idea. I weighed heavily on a recent CERN study by Chan on black hole creation concerns at the LHC. I would like to have somebody sponsor me on publishing my summary to Arxiv (after I clean it up some). I am going to follow up with some calculations once I brush up on my particle and quantum physics math... It is a beautiful day, don't let it slip away (U2 Bono) Stewart D. Simonson cheme...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Gravitational collapse is not the only process that could create black holes. In principle, black holes could be formed in high-energy collisions that achieve sufficient density. As of 2002, no such events have been detected, either directly or indirectly as a deficiency of the mass balance in particle accelerator experiments. This suggests that there must be a lower limit for the mass of black holes. Theoretically, this boundary is expected to lie around the Planck mass (mP = √ħc/G ≈ 1.2×1019 GeV/c2 ≈ 2.2×10−8 kg), where quantum effects are expected to invalidate the predictions of general relativity. This would put the creation of black holes firmly out of reach of any high energy process occurring on or near the Earth. However, certain developments in quantum gravity suggest that the Planck mass could be much lower: some braneworld scenarios for example put the boundary as low as 1 TeV/c2. This would make it conceivable for micro black holes to be created in the high energy collisions occurring when cosmic rays hit the Earth's atmosphere, or possibly in the new Large Hadron Collider at CERN. Lower mass black holes are expected to evaporate very fast; for example, a black hole of mass 1 TeV/c2 would take less than 10−88 seconds to evaporate completely. For such a small black hole, quantum gravitation effects are expected to play an important role and could even—although current developments in quantum gravity do not indicate so—hypothetically make such a small black hole stable. Yet these theories are very speculative, and the creation of black holes in these processes is deemed unlikely by many specialists. Even if micro black holes should be formed in these collisions, it is expected that they would evaporate in about 10−25 seconds, posing no threat to the Earth. It might be wise to say away from the singularity as causation for LENR until more is known about their formation and sebsequent evaperation. Cheers:Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: Guys, The energy from this device would come from the atomic gas ion collisions in the approx 1 TeV to 8 TeV range and should produce singularities (ion collapse) which quickly evaporate releasing nuclear energy. Just enough and it will purr like a Schrodinger kitten. Too many singularities or ones with too large event horizons and she blows... On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw. I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! –Jouni
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Jouni, I will have to take issue with your naive, simpleton, and bigoted comment. You just insulted a whole range of people and I expect an apology. Do you feel you are smarter than Isaac Newton - The father of Modern Physics or Michael Faraday - The father of electromagnetism or Louis Pastuer - The father of modern microbiology or Johann Kepler - The father of Modern Physical Astronomy or Charles Bell - Premier Anatomist and Surgeon These are just a sampling of men who were pioneers of science, smarter than you can ever hope to be, and deeply religious people. Can you say you are smarter than any of these guys. Do you know anybody who is smarter than any of these guys? Ah... yes, Richard Dawkins is. OK, Whatever. Jojo - Original Message - From: Jouni Valkonen To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw.
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
I'm glad I watched that video to the end, because the first half brought back bad memories! I and many Vorts have been following the fringe sci/tech world for decades, and the first half of this presentation was VERY poor. reminds me of the charlatans which showed up at the Tesla Society conferences with their overunity device or whatever, and when their presentation came up, it was, aaahh shucks, I was testing the device this morning and something went pop and I must have burned something out! And we didn't bring any spare parts. So we won't be able to demonstrate the overunity device, but we will do the presentation and there are books and CDs if you want more details. That's why I gave up on that venue 20 years ago. there might have been a few individuals that had useful stuff, but 90+% was BS. This looked pretty painful for McKubre! His body language and facial expressions did not look real relaxed at first. I bet this was so much different from a room full of PhDs, and *not* in a good way professionally speaking, that he felt his reputation was suffering! I don't blame him. the problems with microphones, with the slide presentation and with the non-playing videos, were so amateurish they would make any professional engineer/scientist cringe! I know I did, more than once. It wasn't until the last few minutes that McKubre provided some history of how he got involved, and that is when I felt the time spent watching it was worth it. He chose his words carefully as a good scientist will do, but, **he seemed to be quite sure that this was also a very important and new kind of phenomenon**. I applaud Rohner for his efforts and openness to demo this thing, and for McKubre to even show up and more or less vouch for this kind of thing. 20 years ago, it would have been a career limiting move! The operation of this device is quite intriguing, especially the video with Rohner and Dannel Roberts in Rohner's shop. they use a pneumatic cylinder at 120psi (??) for measuring the force, and it is substantial. See this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJMfeature=plcp feature=plcp This is the kind of thing that causes Vorts to start salivating! Looking fwd to some discussions about this thing. -Mark Iverson From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:59 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8feature=player_detailpage feature=player_detailpage Rohnermachine.com Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos. The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed above. In it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp technology. Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking which are interesting. The demo shows the device that McKubre used to appraise the Papp reaction in a 20 minute private evaluation with Mike. At 1: 03 into the long video, McKubre states his position as an advocate of the Papp engine stating that it is based on a nuclear process. McHubre sites Cecil Baumgartner a first hand witness to the Feynman test for his initial interest in the engine. A first hand eye witness to the Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo said Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community. As a personal opinion, McKubre deserves some credit, He has a open mind and is not fixated on the deuterium LENR reaction. Cheers: Axil
Re: [Vo]:NIWeek 2012 video: Anomalous Heat Effects
On 2012-08-09 02:00, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, A related link: https://decibel.ni.com/content/groups/niweek-2012/blog/2012/08/08/session-recap-the-anomalous-heat-effect-aka-cold-fusion Cheers, S.A.
[Vo]:Philadelphia Inquirer Mentions LENR-CANR.ORG
LENR-CANR.ORG gets a mention in Philadephia Inquirer blog.http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/evolution/Climate-Change-Deniers-Not-as-Prolific-as-Cold-Fusion-Proponents.html
Re: [Vo]:NIWeek 2012 video: Anomalous Heat Effects
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: On 2012-08-09 02:00, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, A related link: https://decibel.ni.com/content/groups/niweek-2012/blog/2012/08/08/session-recap-the-anomalous-heat-effect-aka-cold-fusion “At this point,” Duncan explained, “there is no theory without good data.” The article said that there were over 200 experiments showing excess heat. I think they are off by an order of magnitude or two. :-) Akira, you are a better CF reporter than SK, but that might not be much of a compliment. Thanks for all your efforts! T
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Mark, I had similar apprehension but the demonstration itself was pretty convincing -I don't think the energy consumption of the ignition ckt was much different open air vs driving a weight up and I agree with Rhoner that the instant reversal of the piston ahead of the weight as the gases contract is telling us something - I don't agree anything is necessarily being consumed even from a nuclear perspective as McKubre is suggesting but would posit this is the same catalytic/Casimir geometry we see in the Mills/Rossi designs...only the medium has changed such that we have anomalous displacement / expansion of gas instead of temperature changes but it is still all just manipulating the variables in gas law - where Mills and Rossi contain the PV forcing t to change this device contains Pt forcing the v to change. We have all been told that the random motion of gas is due to VP fluctuations below the plank scale [HUP] and are not exploitable but I am convinced that Casimir geometry accumulates and segregates the isotropy such that these zero point fluctuations can be exploited by gas atoms exposed to these regions in a biased manner. IMHO The plasma forms layers like the argon layers Rhoner makes mention of that are in constant motion with trapped ions in between forming dynamic menisci of Casimir geometry that constantly alter the fractional [inverse Rydberg] state of the ions .. you can take your pick after that whether it be Mills like hydrino ions in collision, Haisch - Moller Lamb Pinch, or something similar to the MAHG oscilation between bond states only with noble gas I guess this would be between ionic and noble states. Fran From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:54 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine I'm glad I watched that video to the end, because the first half brought back bad memories! I and many Vorts have been following the fringe sci/tech world for decades, and the first half of this presentation was VERY poor... reminds me of the charlatans which showed up at the Tesla Society conferences with their overunity device or whatever, and when their presentation came up, it was, aaahh shucks, I was testing the device this morning and something went pop and I must have burned something out! And we didn't bring any spare parts... ; So we won't be able to demonstrate the overunity device, but we will do the presentation and there are books and CDs if you want more details. That's why I gave up on that venue 20 years ago... there might have been a few individuals that had useful stuff, but 90+% was BS. This looked pretty painful for McKubre! His body language and facial expressions did not look real relaxed at first. I bet this was so much different from a room full of PhDs, and *not* in a good way professionally speaking, that he felt his reputation was suffering! I don't blame him... the problems with microphones, with the slide presentation and with the non-playing videos, were so amateurish they would make any professional eng ineer/scientist cringe! I know I did, more than once. It wasn't until the last few minutes that McKubre provided some history of how he got involved, and that is when I felt the time spent watching it was worth it. He chose his words carefully as a good scientist will do, but, **he seemed to be quite sure that this was also a very important and new kind of phenomenon**. I applaud Rohner for his efforts and openness to demo this thing, and for McKubre to even show up and more or less vouch for this kind of thing... 20 years ago, it would have been a career limiting move! The operation of this device is quite intriguing, especially the video with Rohner and Dannel Roberts in Rohner's shop... they use a pneumatic cylinder at 120psi (??) for measuring the force, and it is substantial. See this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJMfeature=plcp This is the kind of thin g that causes Vorts to start salivating! Looking fwd to some discussions about this thing... -Mark Iverson From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:59 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8feature=player_detailpage Rohnermachine.com Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos. The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed above. In it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp technology. Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking which are interesting. The demo shows the device that
Re: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag
Guys, A couple things: Daniel wanted me to clarify my theory some more so here it goes: Things just did not make sense to me about so many confusing fusion theories about all the similar effects. I posed some questions to Abd a few nights ago and he never responded. I joked about a grand unified theory of cold fusion because there are so many. I am en engineer and like many want to build something and get it to market but to do that requires a basic understanding of the reaction. 1) First off, I believe Ed. S is right, the primary reaction is not taking place with the lattice metal as he states correctly but it is happening in the voids/cracks/impurities as he states. 2) The hydrogen gas is heated and pressurized which will increase the rate of collisions of hydrogen and also loads/absorbs hydrogen into the metal lattice - (basic chemistry) 3) The electrical stimulation of the hydrogen is carried out by electrical potential differences across the voids/cracks/impurities in the lattice (sparks jump across the gaps voids and a potential difference builds up across dissimilar metals) . This can also be done with a spark plug as DGT uses which creates an electrostatic charge on the microparticle suspension (same effect) 4)The electrical arcing splits the hydrogen to create atomic hydrogen and it also concentrates energy on the atomic hydrogen as it collides (basic electrochemistry mixed with particle physics) 5) If the concentrated energy at collision exceeds ~ 1-8 TeV, according to theory (If you believe in more space dimensions at quantum scales and how strong quantum gravity acting on the bulk/brane is) at the collision point/instant of the Atomic Hydrogen it causes the hydrogen molecules to collapse into each other creating a singularity (particle physics and quantum physics - I weighed heavily on the CERN paper) 6) The voids in the lattice actually increase the effect of quantum scale gravity due to the hoop effect (gravitons) I mentioned in my paper (The atomic hydrogen is squeezed into a void on all sides which magnifies the quantum effect of gravity, effectively aiding in crushing the atomic hydrogen into a singularity) 7) The collapsed micro/quantum black holes can consume more hydrogen based upon their lifetime but evaporate very quickly releasing heat and low levels of radiation products. Some of this quantum goo bombards the lattice and may result in some additional Nuclear by-products 8) Depending the duration of singularity creation/evaporation this effect will create an effect such as heat after death I believe we humans now have a nice baby black hole generator which generates heat and some low level radiation . I am a big Steven Hawking fan so I recognize this effect I have read every post, blog, paper that I could over the past year and I believe my theory has a basis and is what is needed to focus the development effort. Of course I may be wrong, but I don't make my living coming up with theories. If it is some type of fusion and not Hawking Radiation than I will still have alot of engineering work to do over the next 20 years and everyone will laugh at my crazy theory. If I am right and as I think about it, given the fact that universes are created from singularities, I believe we better be careful what we are playing with else we might become one of those black holes we see up in the sky... On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: Guys, I did it again, I have a couple revisions of this, in one instance it should say 1-8 TeV instead of 1-8 keV. I have attached the latest. On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: I thought I posted it to both Vortex CMNS at the same time. I believe I have identified the wicked gremlin (attached) Sorry! On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:25 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Hell yes send it over here! The Collective is all about discussing the fringes… we don’t have to worry about ‘academic’ or ‘professional’ reputations, so we’re open to most all things… and hopefully backed up with some data. ** ** -Mark Iverson ** ** *From:* Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:32 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag ** ** Stewart, send it over to Vortex-L and many here will look it over. I for one are very interested in looking at this new theory. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com *To:* c...@googlegroups.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 3:49 AM *Subject:* [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag ** ** Just a couple of quick corrections to my previous draft ** ** My first instance of 1-8 keV should have read 1-8 TeV (it was correct in the second usage) and A negatively
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine - Feynman,Video
For the convenience of our readership at vortex I will post a rebuttal to Dr, Feynman's account*.* *http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html* Feynman's Mistakes and the Recovery But at the public meeting the next month at which the fatality occurred (see the local newspaper account of the fatality and injuries-p. 30) was Caltech physicist Richard P. Feynman (1918-1988), who had worked on the Manhattan atomic bomb project in World War II. Before even arriving at the demonstration, Feynman assumed that the Papp engine, whose operation he was about to witness, had to be part of an elaborate hoax. We know this because he recounted his reactions during the episode in his widely circulated internet account touted by the skeptic community (see Mr. Papf's (sic) Perpetual Motion Machine, p. 29). But here is the central problem with Feynman's analysis (which has many other errors of fact and logic embedded in it): There was a court action against Feynman by Papp and his backer, Don Roser of Environetics, Inc., as a result of Feynman's inept attempt to disprove the Papp engine with his unauthorized pulling of an electric control-circuit wire that Feynman egregiously imagined had to be powering the engine. It was unfortunate for Feynman that the wire's gauge was far too thin even had there been a secret electric motor within the retrofit Volvo engine. Furthermore, as you will read, the engine kept running even after the flimsy wire was removed. Feynman asserted that Papp most likely had deliberately planned to blow up his own engine to avoid subsequent discovery of the fraud! And, Feynman acknowledges that there was an out-of-court settlement with Caltech. Surely, had there ever been the slightest piece of evidence that conventional explosives blew up the Papp engine that day, Caltech would most certainly not have had to settle. Papp would soon have been charged with manslaughter, no doubt, and Feynman would surely have cited this evidence publicly. He was not one to shrink from dramatic gestures. Caltech also had the motive and the means to skewer Papp with the kind of evidence that is routinely gathered by police departments and crime labs following explosion accidents. However, all records of the investigation into the accident appear to have vanished down some kind of a memory hole. I believe they exist somewhere, but we have not been able— yet— to obtain them. On June 29, 1998, Caltech's very helpful Associate Archivist, Shelley Erwin, faxed me: Well, the mysterious affair with Mr. Papp/Papf continues to remain mysterious. I have found nothing in the Feynman papers that refers to it. Nor is there any obvious reference to Mr. Papp or the lawsuit in administrative or publicity papers from the time. We do not have a clippings file for the 1960s, so that is one type of resource I did not investigate. . .I think I have done all I can here, without any useful result. We would be interested to know how your search comes out— if indeed this is a true account. I wish I knew. I made more recent contact with various Caltech offices, which could not provide me with any records— not even its public information office had newsclips, and efforts to locate official accident reports in California have come up dry. Some of these may have been destroyed, according to some police departments contacted. After all, this is an accident that happened thirty-five years ago. But the point is that nowhere, so far, do we have any evidence that the explosion was a result of illicit explosives. Failing such direct evidence of hoax, the proved violence of the explosions— the November 1968 and the October 1968 ones— strongly point to the reality of the Papp process. But we also have the contemporary laboratory work that establishes convincing evidence— visual and by instrumentation— that noble gases can be made to explode and achieve over-unity. Heroic work on a shoestring budget over the past few years is recounted in broad scope by researchers Mark Hugo and Blair Jenness in Minnesota (p. 51). We hope to feature their work in greater depth in future issues. Heinz Klostermann of California, whom I met two years ago, has been of great assistance in assembling some of the information that went into this issue of Infinite Energy. On p. 55, he discusses his broad knowledge of many of the groups working in the U.S. in the past and today in the effort to recover the Papp engine technology. He has begun his own independent initiative. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: At 05:05 PM 8/8/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote: Feynman's account is at http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle2.html Infinite Energy description : http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html Papp demonstrating his engine with a dynonometer : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wZqDQ7Pjg The video is discussed at :
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine. In other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's. How much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator. If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done. I'm pretty sure it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it. I don't believe it is just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this technology if it is real. There has got to be still some fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine. What is that issue? I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can answer. Jojo - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine You response confuses me. Jouni said: Better, are you serious? Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Axil states: I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine. Journi said: Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi. Axil states: Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and eccentric. Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 years, a very long time. John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged enough to bring the engine to market. Journi said: I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! Axil states: Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of him and Rohner is way ahead of them all. The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get that far in commercialization. The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that... from the standpoint of commercialization. LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a technology. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw. I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Howdy Fran! Yes, the demo was good, and the reversal of the piston was interesting; seemed to be 'pulled' down to some degree and if that is the case, then there is a physical expansion and contraction going on with the gasses. It was good that they took it apart to show how simple the thing really is. The video link I supplied is a much better video of just how simple it is inside. no details on the electronics, nor how the coil is wound. As for possible theoretical mechanisms. that's what we're here for (as he wipes the drool from his chin with a shirt sleeve)! What purpose does the coil play? Creating an intense mag-field to align the plasma ions? There are two sets of electrical contacts: - Electrodes - Anode and Cathode I know that sounds redundant, but that was Rohner's jargon. If I remember correctly, the anode/cathode are there to supply a (DC?) current AFTER the electrodes spark and 'energize' the plasma. guess it's time to look at the patents, if they've been published. Is the spark discharge creating the plasma, and then one gets a DC current flow across the anode/cathode? The spark is NOT for combustion, so it must be meant to have some kind of effect on the ions/free electrons? This is a hoot! All these technologies (CF, Papp, and who knows what's next, Hutchinson Effect!) mired in obscurity for many decades, and they all get credibility and (hopefully) commercialization in a year or three!!! At least it occurred before we passed on, but it sure would have been great if the lost ol'timer Vorts could have been here to watch this unfold. Hey, has anyone ever thought of holding a Vortex-l union??? Can't really call it a 'reunion' since I don't think there's ever been a union! J -Mark From: Roarty, Francis X [mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 7:45 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine Mark, I had similar apprehension but the demonstration itself was pretty convincing -I don't think the energy consumption of the ignition ckt was much different open air vs driving a weight up and I agree with Rhoner that the instant reversal of the piston ahead of the weight as the gases contract is telling us something - I don't agree anything is necessarily being consumed even from a nuclear perspective as McKubre is suggesting but would posit this is the same catalytic/Casimir geometry we see in the Mills/Rossi designs.only the medium has changed such that we have anomalous displacement / expansion of gas instead of temperature changes but it is still all just manipulating the variables in gas law - where Mills and Rossi contain the PV forcing t to change this device contains Pt forcing the v to change. We have all been told that the random motion of gas is due to VP fluctuations below the plank scale [HUP] and are not exploitable but I am convinced that Casimir geometry accumulates and segregates the isotropy such that these zero point fluctuations can be exploited by gas atoms exposed to these regions in a biased manner. IMHO The plasma forms layers like the argon layers Rhoner makes mention of that are in constant motion with trapped ions in between forming dynamic menisci of Casimir geometry that constantly alter the fractional [inverse Rydberg] state of the ions .. you can take your pick after that whether it be Mills like hydrino ions in collision, Haisch - Moller Lamb Pinch, or something similar to the MAHG oscilation between bond states only with noble gas I guess this would be between ionic and noble states. Fran From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:54 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine I'm glad I watched that video to the end, because the first half brought back bad memories! I and many Vorts have been following the fringe sci/tech world for decades, and the first half of this presentation was VERY poor. reminds me of the charlatans which showed up at the Tesla Society conferences with their overunity device or whatever, and when their presentation came up, it was, aaahh shucks, I was testing the device this morning and something went pop and I must have burned something out! And we didn't bring any spare parts. ; So we won't be able to demonstrate the overunity device, but we will do the presentation and there are books and CDs if you want more details. That's why I gave up on that venue 20 years ago. there might have been a few individuals that had useful stuff, but 90+% was BS. This looked pretty painful for McKubre! His body language and facial expressions did not look real relaxed at first. I bet this was so much different from a room full of PhDs, and *not* in a good way professionally speaking, that he felt his reputation was suffering! I don't blame him. the problems with microphones, with the slide presentation and with the
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
*What purpose does the coil play? Creating an intense mag-field to align the plasma ions?* The coil acts to center the plasma into the center of the cylinder, directs it into the center of the piston and away from its walls. This protects walls from erosion. The coil also keeps charged particles: alpha, protons, electrons confined inside the thin plasma channel. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine. In other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's. How much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator. If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done. I'm pretty sure it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it. I don't believe it is just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this technology if it is real. There has got to be still some fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine. What is that issue? I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can answer. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine You response confuses me. Jouni said: *Better, are you serious?* Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: *This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.* Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: *Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs.* Axil states: I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine. Journi said: *Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi.* Axil states: Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and eccentric. Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 years, a very long time. John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged enough to bring the engine to market. Journi said: *I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus!* Axil states: Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of him and Rohner is way ahead of them all. The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get that far in commercialization. The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that... from the standpoint of commercialization. LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a technology. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale
[Vo]:Dr Mallove s Murder, and the Papp Engine= ??
Greetings All, IF my memory is correct, that in the time frame of the Murder of Dr Gene Mallove- there was a RUMOR that Gene was about to solve the energy crises with by exposing a great Free Energy Device. Much effort was focused on this. I am speculating that perhaps it some form of Papp Engine. I think the source of this rumor was someone in Vortex. I used to attend Temple University Frontier Sciences with Gene, and it appears to correct murderers were found and convictedBUT I wonder is the Case Closed? Any Vortexian who may have remembered this? Respectfully, Ron For those who like Conspiracy Theories perhaps a good start. It pays to question- everything. For the longest time...I thought that a hit was placed on Gene.
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
What purpose does the coil play? I posit that it aligns the otherwise random layers of gas into Casimir geometry -forcing the layers into parallel alignments with trapped ions caught between that then become fractionalized [ inverse Rydberg matter] Fran From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 11:38 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine What purpose does the coil play? Creating an intense mag-field to align the plasma ions? The coil acts to center the plasma into the center of the cylinder, directs it into the center of the piston and away from its walls. This protects walls from erosion. The coil also keeps charged particles: alpha, protons, electrons confined inside the thin plasma channel. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.commailto:jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine. In other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's. How much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator. If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done. I'm pretty sure it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it. I don't believe it is just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this technology if it is real. There has got to be still some fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine. What is that issue? I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can answer. Jojo - Original Message - From: Axil Axilmailto:janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine You response confuses me. Jouni said: Better, are you serious? Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. Axil states: I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine. Journi said: Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi. Axil states: Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and eccentric. Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 years, a very long time. John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged enough to bring the engine to market. Journi said: I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus! Axil states: Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of him and Rohner is way ahead of them all. The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get that far in commercialization. The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that... from the standpoint of commercialization. LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a technology. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.commailto:jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.commailto:janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
John Rehner has done the same thing that Robert Godes founder of Brillouin Energy has done; create a nanoeceond high power elecric pulse controller. Like any engine, timing is all important. With proper timing the engine will run will with little or no bad nuclear byproducts. What John Rehner wants to sell is his control boards, his freqency generator, and his spark controller. The cost of his engine in mass production is $300. It can be built mostly of plastic. Rohner is hoping the customers will buy his stuff rather than build the engine on their own. It is open source and not protected in any way since the patent is laped long ago. You saw may post on the kit Rohner sells, right... or were you too occupied in bad mouthing Obama (aka... a waste of time)? See http://www.rohnerengineering.com/pix/OurMBs.jpg Cheers:Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: ** Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine. In other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's. How much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator. If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done. I'm pretty sure it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it. I don't believe it is just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this technology if it is real. There has got to be still some fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine. What is that issue? I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can answer. Jojo - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine You response confuses me. Jouni said: *Better, are you serious?* Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: *This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.* Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: *Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs.* Axil states: I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine. Journi said: *Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi.* Axil states: Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and eccentric. Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 years, a very long time. John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged enough to bring the engine to market. Journi said: *I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus!* Axil states: Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of him and Rohner is way ahead of them all. The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get that far in commercialization. The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that... from the standpoint of commercialization. LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a technology. Cheers: Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat production. Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
Axil wrote: The coil acts to center the plasma into the center of the cylinder, directs it into the center of the piston and away from its walls. This protects walls from erosion. The coil also keeps charged particles: alpha, protons, electrons confined inside the thin plasma channel. Is that speculation, or facts coming from someone who has worked with Rohner, or is it from patents??? Please try to let us know the source of your statements. sources are important. -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
From a reply to my blog http://froarty.scienceblog.com/32178/32178/ 1.John Rohnerhttp://www.plasmerg/com on April 5, 2011 at 6:48 amhttp://froarty.scienceblog.com/32178/32178/#comment-59 said: Hello My name is John Rohner and my company is PlasmERG.com (www.plasmerg.com) I am the author of the current patent pending on this technology and have running test engines using it. I was also the electronic designer of the controller that was used on the certified 83 engine. I find your comments very interesting. You have one part particularly right. The fuel mix does have one gas that is pure buffer, a second that is quasi passive as a second buffer. The rest are used much as you envision except each has a higher transition point so one sets the next which sets the last off. Much as you consider with the heat, the gas mix also is pre conditioned before the catalyst, a 200KV lightning ball about .1 diameter, is applied. The equivalent to your heat is the application of Electromagnetic squeeze and Radio frequency energies to Ionize the gas mixture to just under the transition point. This lowers the reactive point and simplifies the starting. From there the expansion of the plasma has a five to one expansion rate, mix dependent. Removal of the catalyst and RF will cause the transition to stop, and as you assume the return to steady state gas does cause a partial vacuum and a negative thermal impulse. I am unfamiliar with ZPE or Rossi. But if this process specifies Hydrogen then it is wrong. Hydrogen has a reaction time that is too fast for a small displacement system. For a very large displacement a small hydrogen part may be helpful to start the process as more volume is required in less time. In our tests we have found it too quick and dissipates before it can light the candle thus we use the slower Helium. I hope you do not mind my checking in and commenting as this is definitely THE best hope for future clean air power generation and we have just scratched the surface. It is my thought that there is still a world to learn about this. Thank You From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 12:00 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine John Rehner has done the same thing that Robert Godes founder of Brillouin Energy has done; create a nanoeceond high power elecric pulse controller. Like any engine, timing is all important. With proper timing the engine will run will with little or no bad nuclear byproducts. What John Rehner wants to sell is his control boards, his freqency generator, and his spark controller. The cost of his engine in mass production is $300. It can be built mostly of plastic. Rohner is hoping the customers will buy his stuff rather than build the engine on their own. It is open source and not protected in any way since the patent is laped long ago. You saw may post on the kit Rohner sells, right... or were you too occupied in bad mouthing Obama (aka... a waste of time)? See http://www.rohnerengineering.com/pix/OurMBs.jpg Cheers:Axil On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.commailto:jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine. In other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's. How much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator. If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done. I'm pretty sure it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it. I don't believe it is just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this technology if it is real. There has got to be still some fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine. What is that issue? I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can answer. Jojo - Original Message - From: Axil Axilmailto:janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine You response confuses me. Jouni said: Better, are you serious? Axil thinks: You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True? Journi said: This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation. Axil states: IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better? Journi said: Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is way too good to be true, but
RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
Had to delete the 35KB picture in order for this to get posted. Here is what we have so far: 1. Primarily just noble gases in a closed cylinder at low pressure (1 to several atm). They just bounce around, occasionally bouncing into each other but no chemical nor nuclear reactions taking place. Real boring! 2. There were three other elements mentioned, but in very small amounts, and they were not obvious or in the bottom and not easily visible. Thorium mentioned, but more on that later. 3. Spark discharge starts the ionization/plasma generation process near electrodes. 4. Plasma is conductive and a large (DC) current flows between other set of electrodes (anode/cathode). 5. Then a miracle/the impossible happens! J Unknowns: 1. When is the coil energized? If Axil's speculations are right, it would be on for steps 1 thru 3. 2. Rohner did mention 2g of thorium at the conference, but I thought that was only since he didn't have something else at the conference; vaguely remember hearing RF! Need to rewatch the videos. Analysis of attached Picture 1. The lower-right electrode and upper-left are connected to the SAME wire! 2. The wire at lower left side electrode wraps underneath the vacuum guage and connects to what looks like a ground terminal mounted to side of electrode housing; then from there the wire goes into the wooden box. 3. The wire on the electrode in the upper-right side one cannot see where it goes.. -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
From a John Rohner video regarding the geometry of the plasma. The observation about the charge particles seems obvious to me as basic plasma physics and comes from me. Cheers: Axil On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:23 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Axil wrote: “The coil acts to center the plasma into the center of the cylinder, directs it into the center of the piston and away from its walls. This protects walls from erosion. The coil also keeps charged particles: alpha, protons, electrons confined inside the thin plasma channel.” ** ** Is that speculation, or facts coming from someone who has worked with Rohner, or is it from patents??? Please try to let us know the source of your statements… sources are important. ** ** -Mark ** ** ** **
[Vo]:Inside of Rohner/Papp plasma chamber...
About 7 minutes into this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJMfeature=plcp feature=plcp Four electrodes as two sets of opposing electrodes, and each opposing set of two look more or less identical. One set looks to have larger ends, and to even have two nodes on the end. 1. The smaller set of electrodes have aluminum containers, or 'buckets' as Rohner calls them, that form the base of two of the opposing electrodes. 2. One bucket has Thorium and Rubidium inside. 3. The other bucket contains Thorium and Red Phosphorus. 4. Two tungsten electrodes; these are the larger, more rounded ones which look to have two nodes on the end; the opposing electrode's face cannot be seen. -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy
These guys don't write things down, they use videos and interviews to communicate, this makes research difficult. I was under the impression that the coil is always active and is not switched off and on. J Rohner uses, Scandium at the tip of his anode for some reason. He also uses four cathodes ( cut down spark plugs) at 110,000 volts each. He says they add up to 440,000 V total. I don't understand how this addition of voltage is figured. Cheers: Axil On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:34 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Had to delete the 35KB picture in order for this to get posted… ** ** Here is what we have so far: **1. **Primarily just noble gases in a closed cylinder at low pressure (1 to several atm). They just bounce around, occasionally bouncing into each other but no chemical nor nuclear reactions taking place. Real boring! **2. **There were three other elements mentioned, but in very small amounts, and they were not obvious or in the bottom and not easily visible. Thorium mentioned, but more on that later… **3. **Spark discharge starts the ionization/plasma generation process near electrodes. **4. **Plasma is conductive and a large (DC) current flows between other set of electrodes (anode/cathode). **5. **Then a miracle/the impossible happens! J ** ** Unknowns: **1. **When is the coil energized? If Axil’s speculations are right, it would be on for steps 1 thru 3. **2. **Rohner did mention 2g of thorium at the conference, but I thought that was only since he didn’t have something else at the conference; vaguely remember hearing RF! Need to rewatch the videos… ** ** Analysis of attached Picture **1. **The lower-right electrode and upper-left are connected to the SAME wire! **2. **The wire at lower left side electrode wraps underneath the vacuum guage and connects to what looks like a ground terminal mounted to side of electrode housing; then from there the wire goes into the wooden box. **3. **The wire on the electrode in the upper-right side one cannot see where it goes…. ** ** -Mark ** **
Re: [Vo]:Inside of Rohner/Papp plasma chamber...
Bob Rohner and Papp before him uses the alpha particles to canalize the plasma. That is to pre-ionize the gas to aid is conduction between electrodes. John Rohner uses a frequency generator to pre-ionize the gas. Cheers:Axil On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:47 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: About 7 minutes into this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJMfeature=plcp ** ** Four electrodes as two sets of opposing electrodes, and each opposing set of two look more or less identical. One set looks to have larger ends, and to even have two nodes on the end. ** ** **1. **The smaller set of electrodes have aluminum containers, or ‘buckets’ as Rohner calls them, that form the base of two of the opposing electrodes. **2. **One bucket has Thorium and Rubidium inside. **3. **The other bucket contains Thorium and Red Phosphorus. **4. **Two tungsten electrodes; these are the larger, more rounded ones which look to have two nodes on the end; the opposing electrode’s face cannot be seen. ** ** -Mark ** **
Re: [Vo]:Report in US News not bad
Le Aug 8, 2012 à 4:53 PM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com a écrit : How popular / mainstream is that site? I'm not sure how popular the US News and World Report Web site is, but the news organization is well-known for producing a series of college rankings. Every high school student is familiar with them. And what about oilprice.com? I've read it cover some Rossi news a couple times over the past year, but it appears Celani's demo at NIWeek triggered their interested too: http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/Yet-Another-Successful-LENR-Device-Enters-the-Race.html I'm excited about the increasing publicity and about NIWeek. I wonder whether we have reached an inflection point. Eric
