Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Chris Fabien]

3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:

> Wow, what size dishes?
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
> Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in
> both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio.
>
> On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
> Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in
> cost, but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.
>
> The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's
> pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too,
> but I assume you know where to get those...
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up
>> down ratio the customer will be buying yet.
>>
>> If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>> That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case).
>> If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around
>> 140Mbps each way.
>> Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I
>> probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get
>> a little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher
>> modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam
>> (it probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would
>> also add some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but
>> the hd can go up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).
>>
>> An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I
>> haven't priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??
>>>
>>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
>>> *To:* af
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>>
>>> Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use
>>> AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only
>>> difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
>>>> or
>>>> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
>>>> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Chris Fabien]

Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in
both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio.

On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in cost,
but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.

The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's
pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too,
but I assume you know where to get those...


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

> Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up down
> ratio the customer will be buying yet.
>
> If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>
> That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case).
> If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around
> 140Mbps each way.
> Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I
> probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get
> a little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher
> modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam
> (it probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would
> also add some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but
> the hd can go up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).
>
> An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I
> haven't priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:
>
>> Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed
>>
>> Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use
>> AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only
>> difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
>>> or
>>> AF5X + AF-5G34-S45
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the
>>> bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] DWDM SFPs in a CWDM system

[Chris Fabien]

You can, but we ran into compatability issues with 10G DWDM SFPs where the
CWDM version worked fine, with fiberstore generic SFPs in mikrotik and
Planet equipment.

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 6:10 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Why could you not use DWDM SFPs into a CWDM mux if you spaced them out?
> They are about $150 cheaper.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber recommendation.

[Chris Fabien]

Corning rugged drop assembly is what I would use. Single fiber pre
terminated outdoor jacket, quite flexible.


On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 2:37 PM Jay Weekley  wrote:

> Yep.  Any recommendations for flexible, bend insensitive cable will be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Adam Moffett wrote:
> > I don't know the proper name of this device, but they make a finger
> > trap style strain relief with a ring sized to rest on top of the
> > conduit fitting. So you feed the cable through the finger trap, then
> > feed it through the conduit, then the weight is carried at the box
> > connector.  Here's an example of one that Google found for me:
> > http://www.cablegrip.com/conduit_riser_cablegrip.php
> >
> > I hope the cable you're getting is flexible and bend insensitive.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Adam
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: "Jay Weekley"  > >
> > To: "af@afmug.com" >
> > Sent: 4/30/2018 2:26:54 PM
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber recommendation.
> >
> >> <
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=993439894141736=gm.624613164555926=3=1#>We
>
> >> are providing a backup internet connection to a local bank and I need
> >> a recommendation for a fiber run. We had conduit installed from our
> >> equipment box on the top floor of a banks parking deck to an
> >> equipment room on the first floor 4 stories down where it will be
> >> coupled with an existing run of single mode fiber. There are 8 - 90
> >> degree bends and at least 4 of those won't be sweeping 90's since
> >> they had to make some of the transitions from one direction to
> >> another with junction boxes.
> >>
> >> Also, at the top of the deck there is a 60 foot vertical section of
> >> conduit that leads to the bottom of the deck and transitions 90
> >> degrees along the ceiling of the first floor. I need to find a way of
> >> securing the cable (strain relief) to the junction box that is in the
> >> picture I am including. Alternatively, I could use a recommendation
> >> for securing it to our equipment box. Either way, I don't need the
> >> weight of the cable damaging itself or tugging on our equipment in
> >> the box.
> >>
> >> We know how long the cable will be so we will be buying it
> >> pre-terminated.
> >>
> >> --
> >> *Jay Weekley*
> >> *Cyber Broadband
> >> *
> >
> > <
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>
> >   Virus-free. www.avg.com
> > <
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>
> >
> >
> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> --
> *Jay Weekley*
> *Cyber Broadband
> *
>

Re: [AFMUG] After Hours Tech Support

[Chris Fabien]

GTC is the other player popular in the wisp market. We are usually fairly
happy with them.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 11:41 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Odd your customers never have questions unrelated to your service hoppes.
>
> Anyhow in real life, what alternatives are there to serverplus that are
> similar in scope and cost? Funny this thread showed up considering was
> coming here to ask the specific question.
>
> OP, if youre looking for some input on certain outsourced callcenter, i
> have some offlist advice.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 7:21 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> We don’t. We keep the network and customers running well enough there
>> really aren’t many support calls in general - let alone at night.
>>
>> > On Apr 25, 2018, at 19:39, Matt  wrote:
>> >
>> > How or what do you pay an employee to either answer phone calls or
>> > return voicemails after hours or on weekends?
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT One for the borg

[Chris Fabien]

13.5 kinks easier too, especially 1". Even tho ote stiffer it's easier to
get sdr11 placed and routed into peds/handholds without linking.

On Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 9:51 AM Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> The 13.5 tends to squish a little more than 11.  If it sits outside long
> enough, it is a bit more brittle too.  We've had some minor issues where
> plowing in rocky areas and the rocks can sometimes squish it.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 12:18 PM,  wrote:
>
>> You get 5000 feet on 7 foot reels too.  It is lighter.  Lots of good
>> reasons to use it.
>>
>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 20, 2018 10:07 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT One for the borg
>>
>> I don't know jack about the duct, but 2c per foot?  $2,000 over 20 miles.
>>
>> If you still need the thicker wall in some circumstances, then you might
>> lose two grand in the cost of stocking and shipping and handling two rolls
>> of tube vs one roll of tube.
>>
>> The first time somebody brings the wrong roll to a job site and has to go
>> back, then you've lost more than two grand of productivity.  Seems like it
>> couldn't be worth it to me.  But I don't know jack.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 4/20/2018 11:11:36 AM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT One for the borg
>>
>>
>> I am considering using some SDR 13.5 duct where I have always used SDR11
>> before.
>>
>> The DR stands for diameter ratio.  Ratio between wall thickness and outer
>> diameter (I think).  Higher numbers mean thinner wall thickness.
>>
>> Others use the 13.5 unless they get into rocky areas.  I am a bit gunshy
>> as the cost is only about 2 cents per foot different.
>> Anyone here have any experiences they can relate?
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun

[Chris Fabien]

This is about 20 min from us yea it really happened!

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 1:08 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> ODD NEWS
>
> Name of Wi-Fi network prompts gym evacuation
>
> Saginaw Township, Mich.
>
> • A Michigan gym patron looking for a Wi-Fi connection found one named
> “remote detonator,” prompting an evacuation and precautionary search of the
> facility by a bomb-sniffing dog. The Saginaw News reported nothing was
> found in the search Sunday at Planet Fitness in Saginaw Township, about 85
> miles northwest of Detroit. Saginaw Township police Chief Donald Pussehl
> says the patron brought the Wi-Fi connection’s name to the attention of a
> manager, who evacuated the building and called police. The gym was closed
> for about three hours as police responded. Pussehl says there’s “no crime
> or threat,” so no charges are expected. He notes people often have odd
> names for Wi-Fi connections. Planet Fitness says the manager was following
> company procedure for when there’s suspicion about a safety issue.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PON OTDR

[Chris Fabien]

I don't have a specific recommendation, but they do make OTDR that run at
over 1600nm and can be used on a lit PON fiber.

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 1:16 PM,  wrote:

> Not cognizant of a pon specific OTDR.  Normally you would be shooting a
> leg of the PON, not actually through the splitter.
>
> *From:* Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 5, 2018 11:14 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] PON OTDR
>
> Any recommendations for an OTDR for use on a PON?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Spectrum fiber demarc move

[Chris Fabien]

I would not advise then you're going to move it, I would just maybe email
their NOC to let them know the circuit will be going down for maintenance,
that is usually appreciated.

If there is enough slack cable I would try to redo the entrance to the safe
room location, including moving their panel and re-terminating. If not,
just run a patch like Matt said.

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018, 4:28 PM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> should i even tell spectrum what im doing or just do it?
>
> On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:35 AM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> In all seriousness I would just move it yourself, if you don't have the
>> ability just find a splicer to do it on a Saturday. If you send some pics
>> we can give further advice but this is straightforward for any fiber tech
>> to do.
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 1, 2018, 8:26 AM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Need to move it because building a data center in an existing building
>>> and the finished room will be tornado proof which the original demarc
>>> location is not.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 1:47 PM, Matt Hoppes <
>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or just let it be and run new fiber from the DMarc to the NID or your
>>>> router.
>>>>
>>>> Why do you need to move the dmarc?
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 2018, at 13:13, TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> move it yourself. If it was cat5 you wouldn't have a problem right?
>>>> Fiber is easier to work on then cat5 in my opinion, it seems intimidating
>>>> but it's not. Get some AFL fast connectors and a coupler and move that 
>>>> B
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 6:00 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just go tear it off the building.  Put up some siding or something.
>>>>> Call in a trouble.  When they come out blame some other contractor.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 31, 2018 6:32 AM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spectrum fiber demarc move
>>>>>
>>>>> You should add an "lol" or a smiley face or something so that readers
>>>>> know you're joking.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> Sent: 3/30/2018 12:55:43 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spectrum fiber demarc move
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No, you say it's always been installed here, your records must be
>>>>> wrong, now get to fixing it, SLA clock is ticking
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 10:44 AM Kurt Fankhauser <
>>>>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I probably could that would be interesting if i called tech support
>>>>>> and said i tried moving the fiber now it dont work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you just move it yourself? We have done that before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 3:41 AM Kurt Fankhauser <
>>>>>>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Has anyone had to move their demarc locaiton in a building for the
>>>>>>>> spectrum/time warner fiber service and what was the process like? Did 
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> charge you for the move of the demarc spot? How much of a PITA was it 
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> move it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Spectrum fiber demarc move

[Chris Fabien]

In all seriousness I would just move it yourself, if you don't have the
ability just find a splicer to do it on a Saturday. If you send some pics
we can give further advice but this is straightforward for any fiber tech
to do.

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018, 8:26 AM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Need to move it because building a data center in an existing building and
> the finished room will be tornado proof which the original demarc location
> is not.
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 1:47 PM, Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> Or just let it be and run new fiber from the DMarc to the NID or your
>> router.
>>
>> Why do you need to move the dmarc?
>>
>> On Mar 31, 2018, at 13:13, TJ Trout <t...@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>
>> move it yourself. If it was cat5 you wouldn't have a problem right? Fiber
>> is easier to work on then cat5 in my opinion, it seems intimidating but
>> it's not. Get some AFL fast connectors and a coupler and move that B
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 6:00 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Just go tear it off the building.  Put up some siding or something.
>>> Call in a trouble.  When they come out blame some other contractor.
>>>
>>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 31, 2018 6:32 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Spectrum fiber demarc move
>>>
>>> You should add an "lol" or a smiley face or something so that readers
>>> know you're joking.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 3/30/2018 12:55:43 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spectrum fiber demarc move
>>>
>>>
>>> No, you say it's always been installed here, your records must be wrong,
>>> now get to fixing it, SLA clock is ticking
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 10:44 AM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I probably could that would be interesting if i called tech support and
>>>> said i tried moving the fiber now it dont work.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can you just move it yourself? We have done that before.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 3:41 AM Kurt Fankhauser <
>>>>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Has anyone had to move their demarc locaiton in a building for the
>>>>>> spectrum/time warner fiber service and what was the process like? Did 
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> charge you for the move of the demarc spot? How much of a PITA was it to
>>>>>> move it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cable protector for Steve

[Chris Fabien]

There is another tool for this purpose that is a special rotary cutter that
fits in a cordless trim router. Little harder to make a nice straight cut
but super fast for removing innerduct.

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 11:32 PM Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> I'd just call them, they probably order and drop ship from Comstar.  Also,
> it's a huge time saver when you're doing fiber conduit...so the price tag
> is worth it.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
>> Out of stock...  & the price puts it on the... Hmmm what should I do with
>> this wad  toys list...
>>
>> On 03/31/2018 06:34 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.georgiaunderground.net/products/turboslitter-cordless-drill-attachment.html
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 9:44 PM, Robert > i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Where did you buy it?  Didn't find help on the web...
>>>
>>> On 3/30/18 6:07 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>>
>>> Yep, that's what we have...
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Carl Peterson
>>> 
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Get the right tool.
>>> https://www.condux.com/product.php?id=202
>>> 
>>>  >> >
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Mar 30, 2018, at 2:35 PM, Steve Jones
>>> 
>>>  >> >> wrote:
>>>
>>>  i broke one of those on too heavy of steel
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 10:45 AM, >> 
>>>  >>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Start at the end and just munch your way down the
>>> side.
>>>
>>>  -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>>  Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:42 AM
>>>  To: af@afmug.com 
>>> >
>>>  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cable protector for Steve
>>>
>>>  Never used one.
>>>  How well could you cut a straight slot through the
>>> pipe with that?
>>>
>>>
>>>  -- Original Message --
>>>  From: "Bill Prince" >> 
>>>  >> >>
>>>  To: af@afmug.com 
>>> >
>>>  Sent: 3/30/2018 11:29:13 AM
>>>  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cable protector for Steve
>>>
>>>  I like this one.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.grainger.com/product/INGERSOLL-RAND-General-Duty-Air-Nibbler-5MRY1
>>> <
>>> https://www.grainger.com/product/INGERSOLL-RAND-General-Duty-Air-Nibbler-5MRY1
>>> >
>>> <
>>> https://www.grainger.com/product/INGERSOLL-RAND-General-Duty-Air-Nibbler-5MRY1
>>> <
>>> https://www.grainger.com/product/INGERSOLL-RAND-General-Duty-Air-Nibbler-5MRY1
>>> >>
>>>
>>>  bp
>>>  
>>>
>>>  On 3/30/2018 8:19 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> 
>>>  >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Life-360-022-Nickel-Nibbling/dp/B0002KRACO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8=1522423141=8-6=sheet+metal+nibbler
>>> <
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Life-360-022-Nickel-Nibbling/dp/B0002KRACO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8=1522423141=8-6=sheet+metal+nibbler
>>> >
>>> <
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Life-360-022-Nickel-Nibbling/dp/B0002KRACO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8=1522423141=8-6=sheet+metal+nibbler
>>> <
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Life-360-022-Nickel-Nibbling/dp/B0002KRACO/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8=1522423141=8-6=sheet+metal+nibbler
>>> >>
>>>
>>>  -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
>>>  Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 9:09 AM
>>>  To: af@afmug.com 
>>> >
>>>
>>>  

Re: [AFMUG] Spectrum fiber demarc move

[Chris Fabien]

No, you say it's always been installed here, your records must be wrong,
now get to fixing it, SLA clock is ticking

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 10:44 AM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I probably could that would be interesting if i called tech support and
> said i tried moving the fiber now it dont work.
>
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> Can you just move it yourself? We have done that before.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 3:41 AM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone had to move their demarc locaiton in a building for the
>>> spectrum/time warner fiber service and what was the process like? Did they
>>> charge you for the move of the demarc spot? How much of a PITA was it to
>>> move it?
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cable protector for Steve

[Chris Fabien]

Just buy real U channel and save your fingers.

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 11:27 PM Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> You should use a nibbler...
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 11:12 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> i took over the installers van while hes got broken bones, i have it
>> pretty "organized"
>> but the other day i had to do 7 ubnt with reflectors to epmp swaps, how
>> does one organize that volume of dishes?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> No trick.  I just tuck them inside somewhere.
>>>
>>> I wish I had pics of my brother's Time Warner Cable van.  He was
>>> impressively well organized.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Steve Jones" 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 3/28/2018 10:44:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cable protector for Steve
>>>
>>> i have a pipe on the top of the van that holds 10 foot sticks so some
>>> PVC conduit would work. On that note, any trick on keeping 8 or 6 foot
>>> sticks as you cut them down in the pipe on top of the van without the other
>>> pipes pushing them up?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 9:19 PM, Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I tripped over these pics when looking for the fiber demarc pic.

 Steve had asked last week about protecting cable from dogs. I do this
 for weed trimmers, but a longer piece ought to limit canine access as well.

 I cut the slot in the conduit so I can slip it over an already
 installed cable.  I did that one on the bumper with an angle grinder, but a
 table saw might be safer.








 Sent from my iPhone

>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Indoor ONT fiber

[Chris Fabien]

Install a wall jack so worst they need is a replacement patch cable.

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 1:22 PM  wrote:

> We have tried 844G and gigapoints but residential customers think that
> little yellow wire does not need any special treatment.  One moved out and
> returned our 844g by cutting the fiber because they were not sure how to
> disconnect it.
>
> *From:* Craig Schmaderer
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2018 11:18 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Indoor ONT fiber
>
>
> Chuck, I do like the outside onts better, like the 711, we still use them
> for all businesses and any residential that orders phone, but just internet
> residential we just use the 801g gigapoint and 844e routers.  Installs are
> faster and cheaper with the 801g, just have to run the fiber patch cord in,
> then run ethernet to where the router is, ie desk…  711 takes more work
> with power cable, battery backup  I wish we could make that jumper cheaper,
> but I have not found a better way to do it.  I am all ears.  Anyone have a
> good source for UniCam SC APC ends that don’t cost $17 a piece?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2018 6:15 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Indoor ONT fiber
>
>
>
> Not only that, you can field terminate the drop with a unicam for about $15
>
> So no $45 jumper.
>
>
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2018 5:11 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Indoor ONT fiber
>
>
>
> I just hate indoor ONTs.  People do not respect the fiber.  It gets cut
> and mangled etc.
>
> I guess if  you are nailing the ONT on the wall somewhere, but if it is
> similar to a modem on someone’s desk you are asking for trouble.
>
>
>
> *From:* Craig Schmaderer
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2018 4:19 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Indoor ONT fiber
>
>
>
> Clearfield flexible fieldshield patch cables with removable end. Run from
> outside splice box to inside ont. Almost always use the 25 footers.
> Expensive.  $45. I have yet found a better solution that doesn’t involve
> more labor.
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* Af  on behalf of Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2018 4:10:56 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Indoor ONT fiber
>
>
>
> Currently I just run a flat drop fiber to an enclosure on the side of the
> building, then cat5 inside.
>
>
>
> Those of you doing indoor ONTs, what are you using for fiber from the
> outdoor splice closure to the ONT?  It would need to be UV rated and
> probably armored since I would prefer to not have to run conduit from the
> splice closure through the exterior wall.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Jason
>

Re: [AFMUG] Spectrum fiber demarc move

[Chris Fabien]

Can you just move it yourself? We have done that before.

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 3:41 AM Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> Has anyone had to move their demarc locaiton in a building for the
> spectrum/time warner fiber service and what was the process like? Did they
> charge you for the move of the demarc spot? How much of a PITA was it to
> move it?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25 on metal building

[Chris Fabien]

If you intent to guy to the building and not to the ground, maybe 30or 40ft
above the peak. That is also significant additional loading on the
structure, be mindful of that. Can you just put it next to the building and
guy into the ground?

On Mar 20, 2018 10:22 PM, "TJ Trout"  wrote:

> I'm building a 40x40 or possibly 50x60 steel building. I would like to
> install a guyed 25g on the peak (about 20ft peak from ground level with
> 16ft walls)
>
> If I guy off 4 times how high can I go?
>
> Any way to do 100ft or ten sections ? I'm assuming my guy span isn't far
> out enough.
>
> I know what's on the drawings but I am looking for some real world
> feedback
>
> Thank you very much
>
> TJ
>

Re: [AFMUG] anyone seen this letter yet

[Chris Fabien]

They can't stop you, but they can sue you! Can sue anybody for anything in
this country right?

In reality, I think the real answer is, the FCC rules on unlicensed freqs
and how a judge might interpret a case for damages due to lost business due
to provable radio interference, may be two totally different situations.

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Send them the Part 15 rules...they can't stop you.
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Feb 28, 2018 9:26 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
>> We cover one of the areas with Airebeam and we can’t install over their
>> old customers fast enough.  Ken is backed up at least 3 times what we are
>> backed up.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:12 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] anyone seen this letter yet
>>
>>
>>
>> all you need to know about this outfit
>>
>>
>>
>> " Today is a Great Day!  I cancelled my Airebeam account and switched to
>> another company. This company has the worst customer service. They also
>> have horrible internet service. They are very unresponsive when there is an
>> issue. (and if they did respond, they always blamed the router.) In my
>> opinion, Greg does not take the responsibility of owning a business and
>> providing quality seriously.
>> Follow up note:
>> When Steven (installer) contacted me to pick up equipment, he stated
>> equipment that wasn't even theirs. He then proceeded to yell at me. I
>> explained to him that he was never to contact me again. The owner, instead
>> of finding a solution, threatened to file theft charges. I am more than
>> happy to return their equipment, but I don't have to put up with their
>> abusive employees."
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.yelp.com/biz/airebeam-arizona-city
>>
>>
>>
>> not that BBB is legit, but there is this https://www.bbb.org/phoen
>> ix/business-reviews/internet-providers/airebeam-broadband-
>> in-arizona-city-az-133070/reviews-and-complaints
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:45 PM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> man, that sucks. He probably paid this lawyer too.
>>
>>
>>
>> wouldnt it be crazy though if this was a loophole nobody thought of cause
>> its too dumb to work, but we didnt take into account the level of dumb in
>> the judiciary
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Rory Conaway 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Two guys in Arizona got them but my guess is these people are just
>> fishing.  I’ve got my attorneys looking it over and I’m going to make an
>> inquiry to the Attorney General’s office tomorrow.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>>
>> *4226 S. 37
>> th Street •
>> Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>>
>> *602-426-0542 <(602)%20426-0542>*
>>
>> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>>
>> *www.triadwireless.net *
>>
>>
>>
>> *“Yesterdays Home Runs don’t win todays games!”*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] RodeoTV vs. RealChoice TV

[Chris Fabien]

Layne can you share a list of connection points to the list? Have you
changed pricing at all since you and I talked last?
Thanks
Chris


On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 1:43 PM, Layne Sisk  wrote:

> Chuck,
>   We should talk.  We have so many more connection points now it is
> pretty easy and cheap to connect to us.  Most connections now are between
> $100 and $600.
>
> -Layne
> Sent from my iPhone, so please excuse any misspelled words or embarrassing
> auto-corrects!
>
> On Feb 24, 2018, at 12:29 PM, "ch...@wbmfg.com"  wrote:
>
> Layne, what is the real world chance of anyone discovering that you are
> transporting to one of use via VPN?
>
> I think the chance is low.
> Then if discovered, what is the chance that the programmers will care?
>
> When I was working with Dallas, I had quite a few of them agreeing to the
> VPN method.
>
> How about this,  you sell to me, I take delivery in a data center very
> close to you.
>
> Then what I do to transport to the edge server is my business... right?
>
> *From:* Layne Sisk
> *Sent:* Friday, February 23, 2018 10:19 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RodeoTV vs. RealChoice TV
>
>
> When they do you won’t be able to resell it, they will just sell it to
> your customers and you won’t make anything.
>
>
>
> Layne Sisk
>
> ServerPlus
>
> 801.426.8283, ext 102
>
>  
>
> [image: http://i.imgur.com/VOz763A.png]
>
> [image: http://i.imgur.com/xvQYYWa.png]
> 
>
> [image: http://i.imgur.com/ELG0AB1.png]
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Friday, February 23, 2018 6:40 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RodeoTV vs. RealChoice TV
>
>
>
> That's how technology is.
>
> Until DirecTV, Google, Sony, etc. get full line-ups OTT, you're not going
> to find something you can sell that's going to have a full line-up.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Clint Wiley" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, February 23, 2018 6:01:32 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] RodeoTV vs. RealChoice TV
>
> That’s actually a good point. This is a rapidly moving area. I don’t want
> to choose the wrong technology/solution.
>
> Thanks,
> _
> Clint Wiley
> Hagerstown Fiber Internet
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2018, at 6:23 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> The statement of the week...
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, February 23, 2018 5:04:40 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] RodeoTV vs. RealChoice TV
>
> Maybe. Time will tell.
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2018, at 17:46, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> I think those that go over the public Internet don't have nearly the same
> lineup.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, February 23, 

Re: [AFMUG] RodeoTV vs. RealChoice TV

[Chris Fabien]

So, we have been working with Rodeo for nearly a year as they slowly get
their system ready for launch. Technically, Realchoice is a better and more
"finished" product, but the pricing left Zero margin for me to be able to
sell, and the private line requirement PLUS a significant monthly minimum
made it a non-starter.

Rodeo, what they are offering to sell is more flexible channel lineup at
prices that you can make a decent margin. If they can get the technical
issues past them they will be a great option. They have made a lot of
progress but it's been a very painful process to work through.
Communication and transparency  from them has been very poor, but improving
lately.

If server plus/ realchoice could find a way to get their pricing in line
they'd be a slam dunk. I had a frank discussion with someone there a few
months ago and the feedback I got was, we think our pricing is perfect,
take it or leave it.

On Feb 23, 2018 9:35 PM, "Clint Wiley"  wrote:

> I’m a trigger puller. That’s why I asked originally.  I’m looking for
> feedback now as I don’t plan to dwell on it for long.
>
> Thanks,
> _
> Clint Wiley
> Hagerstown Fiber Internet
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2018, at 8:57 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> The thing is, while you're waiting someone else is selling a service to
> your customer.and you're carrying the traffic without getting anything
> out of it.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Clint Wiley" 
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Sent: 2/23/2018 7:01:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RodeoTV vs. RealChoice TV
>
> That’s actually a good point. This is a rapidly moving area. I don’t want
> to choose the wrong technology/solution.
>
> Thanks,
> _
> Clint Wiley
> Hagerstown Fiber Internet
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2018, at 6:23 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> The statement of the week...
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, February 23, 2018 5:04:40 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] RodeoTV vs. RealChoice TV
>
> Maybe. Time will tell.
>
> On Feb 23, 2018, at 17:46, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> I think those that go over the public Internet don't have nearly the same
> lineup.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, February 23, 2018 4:16:50 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] RodeoTV vs. RealChoice TV
>
> Well, the are all allowing all the other streamers to deliver it via the
> public internet, why not RCTV?
>
> Does not seem fair to discriminate against the smaller companies like this.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Clint Wiley
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 3:12 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RodeoTV vs. RealChoice TV
>
> I agree that a VPN makes plenty of sense. I get why they do it but it adds
> an expense that may take me a good bit of time to recover.
>
> Thanks,
> _
>
> Clint Wiley
> Hagerstown Fiber Internet
>
> > On Feb 23, 2018, at 4:56 PM, "ch...@wbmfg.com"  wrote:
> >
> > That is not by choice.  The content providers all have a different
> > tolerance as to how their product is piped around.  RealChoice could
> drop
> > it and probably ship the product over the public internet and never get
> > caught, however they risk losing channels if they ever get caught.
> >
> > Not sure what their current deal is, when I was working with them I was
> > trying to get the programmers to allow content via VPN or VLAN over VPN
> > (silly, right)  over the public internet.  Some of them were 

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Excavation costs

[Chris Fabien]

Overall I think you are on track, but that's a BIG excavator at $100k for a
used one. How deep and wide is this trench? We spent about $25k for a used
7000lb size mini excavator with 800hours.

On Feb 21, 2018 8:53 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> Lets say  you have an equipment operator that earns $20/hour.  I always
> double that for loaded cost.
> That operator can dig probably 50 foot/hour reliably.  So say 320 feet/day
> with start up and shut down inefficiencies.  8 x 40 = $320.  So $1/foot
> just for the labor.  More if we pay for a health insurance plan.
>
> Then equipment allowance.  $100K used excavator.  10% time value of money
> = $10K/year
> Depreciation expense, say $20K/year.
> So $30K/year.  If you kept it busy half the time, say 1000 hours, that is
> $30/hour.
> $240 per day.
>
> We are up to $560/day for 300 feet of ditch.  Round it up to $600 and you
> have a minimum of $2/foot.
> And knowing my estimates are generally off by half or 3x, perhaps $5/foot
> is a good planning figure for the true cost of digging a ditch.
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:33 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Excavation costs
>
> Anyone figured out what it costs them per foot for excavation using their
> own machine?
> I am working to figure out the real cost.
> What does it cost to have a contractor do it?
>

Re: [AFMUG] How to create echo on an analog tel line

[Chris Fabien]

So we had a customer complaining about sometimes hearing an echo, they go
get a new multi handset dect cordless phone system, and it's now way worse
echo than the old phone. We are using the built in ATA in our ZTE ONU,
never had much trouble with echo on the Cisco ATA we used to use on
wireless customers. Not sure how to address this or just give up in the ZTE
go up if it's just crap?



On Feb 17, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You can get *acoustic *echo by adding latency.  This is the handset mic
> picking up the handset speaker, and it doesn't happen on POTS lines, but it
> happens on VoIP using the exact same phone because the up and down path are
> no longer synchronous.
>
> There are also electrical echo effects that are above my pay grade.  One
> of the old phone guys here maybe knows something.
>
> My understanding is that echo cancellation can detect and fix the
> electrical echos, but not the acoustic echo.  To fix acoustic echo you
> either turn down the volume on the handset or use a different handset.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/17/2018 6:09:32 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] How to create echo on an analog tel line
>
> We are having sporadic reports of our subscriber hearing an echo on some
> new go up ATA we are usin g. Whenever I test it myself with various phones,
> it's fine. Anyone know how I can create this condition so I can fool with
> the echo cancellation gains to see if I can fix it?
>
>

[AFMUG] How to create echo on an analog tel line

[Chris Fabien]

We are having sporadic reports of our subscriber hearing an echo on some
new go up ATA we are usin g. Whenever I test it myself with various phones,
it's fine. Anyone know how I can create this condition so I can fool with
the echo cancellation gains to see if I can fix it?

Re: [AFMUG] epmp 2000 AP real world Wattage.

[Chris Fabien]

Make sure to check if the ePMP 2000 has a cold start heater like the 1000
does - that tripped us up a couple times.

On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:53 AM, Sam Lambie  wrote:

> Thanks Mathew
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Typically 8-10 watts, from what I've seen.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Sam Lambie  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> Has anyone cared to note what the real wattage draw of the AP is under
>>> load? I have a solar site that is getting close to full power wise and am
>>> looking to put something in that is light on juice.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> Sam
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> *Sam Lambie*
>>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>>> 575-758-7598 <(575)%20758-7598> Office
>>> www.Taosnet.com 
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 <(575)%20758-7598> Office
> www.Taosnet.com 
>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

Check eBay, alibaba etc.

On Feb 15, 2018 11:32 PM, "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net> wrote:

> Thanks, and yes, it would be grey market since I'm not willing to pay
> nearly double for the supported version.  Point taken on the Ubiquiti
> support though, I just figured crap support is better than no support.
>
> Going back to the distributed tap design, how does an OTDR behave with
> this kind of setup?  Do you need some special software or do you just have
> to read it differently?
>
> Where are you sourcing your FBT splitters?
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever
>> dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless.
>>
>> Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's
>> a nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in
>> Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband.
>> com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the information.  Others were saying the ZTE units are
>>> basically without any support, so I thought that might be a potential
>>> benefit to the Ubiquiti gear.  What do you use to manage the ZTE gear?  Is
>>> it just CLI?
>>>
>>> -Jason
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE
>>>> powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5
>>>> runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH,
>>>> with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying
>>>> the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to
>>>> -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it
>>>> would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not
>>>> confidence building.
>>>>
>>>> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less
>>>> than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully
>>>> load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in
>>>> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled
>>>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a
>>>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was
>>>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>>>>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>>>>>> that needs to be set.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT
>>>>>> is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and 
>>>>>> -28
>>>>>> rx sens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger
>>>>>>> company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think 
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> what THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably
>>>>>>> have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever
dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless.

Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's a
nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in
Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too.



On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for the information.  Others were saying the ZTE units are
> basically without any support, so I thought that might be a potential
> benefit to the Ubiquiti gear.  What do you use to manage the ZTE gear?  Is
> it just CLI?
>
> -Jason
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE
>> powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5
>> runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH,
>> with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying
>> the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to
>> -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it
>> would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not
>> confidence building.
>>
>> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less
>> than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully
>> load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in
>> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled
>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a
>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was
>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>>>> that needs to be set.
>>>>
>>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>>>> sens.
>>>>
>>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>>
>>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>>>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>>>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>>>
>>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have
>>>>> a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>>>>> too.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>>
>>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>>>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>>>>> cabinets.
>>>>>
>>>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per
>>>>> customer.
>>>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing
>>>>> myself to do PON.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck,
>>>>>
>>>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *-- Best rega

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE powered
ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5 runs,
and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH, with a
media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying the Nano
would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to -10C... this
told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it would work
using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not confidence
building.

So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less than
half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully load
the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in the
ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled
with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a
horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was
worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
>
> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>> that needs to be set.
>>
>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>> sens.
>>
>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>
>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>
>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>
>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>
>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
>>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>>> too.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>>> cabinets.
>>>
>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
>>> to do PON.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>>
>>>
>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>>>
>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
>>> *To:* Adam Moffett
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Adam,
>>>
>>> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
>>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
>>> exceed 20Km."
>>>
>>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
>>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>>>
>>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into
>>> the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144
>>> count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles
>>> depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter
>>> to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light
>>> budget.
>>>
>>> We build to the lots passed, so 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

We get 17x30x15. Tyco B size will fit but it's tight. A is no prob.

On Feb 15, 2018 2:33 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> A splice case and slack will fit OK?
> Which size do you get for the $82?
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/
> 05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf
>
> Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local
> supplier that stocks them.
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> Could you give me a source for your handholes?
>> I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel
>> lids.  But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
>> HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
>> heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
>> perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
>> concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.
>>
>> This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping
>> architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I
>> wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when
>> we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy.
>>
>> Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
>> main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
>> viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
>> handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
>> to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
>> well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
>> it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
>> some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
>> there as houses are built and what not.
>>
>> Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
>> the same.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
>>> large expense.
>>> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my
>>> idea already exists I would rather just buy them.
>>>
>>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>>> that needs to be set.
>>>
>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>>> sens.
>>>
>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>
>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>>
>>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>>
>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>>
>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have
>>>> a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>>>> cabinets.
>>>>
>>>> Wh

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf

Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local
supplier that stocks them.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Could you give me a source for your handholes?
> I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel
> lids.  But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
> HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
> heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
> perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
> concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.
>
> This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping
> architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I
> wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when
> we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy.
>
> Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
> main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
> viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
> handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
> to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
> well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
> it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
> some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
> there as houses are built and what not.
>
> Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
> the same.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
>> large expense.
>> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea
>> already exists I would rather just buy them.
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>> that needs to be set.
>>
>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>> sens.
>>
>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>
>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>
>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>
>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>
>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
>>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>>> too.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>>
>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>>> cabinets.
>>>
>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
>>> to do PON.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>>
>>>
>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>&

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

Mark, In our area, limited new house construction. So, we design our plant
to serve existing houses. You of course have the option of putting in all
the taps you might need now, rather than cutting them in later. We usually
end up with at least one drop coming back to maybe 80% of the handholes. I
have not yet, one year in using this method, had to cut service to install
a new tap. If you are good at splicing it "should" be only a couple minutes
of downtime. I'm never claiming it's the right choice for everyone, or
right choice for everywhere in your network. I just know it lets me go many
miles and a 200-300 homes served on a 12 count mainline that costs me <20
cents a foot. I think that's pretty awesome, and it's almost never even
discussed as an option by most FTTH people.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com
> wrote:

> Chris,
>
> It all depends on scale.  Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could
> never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers.
> Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap
> offline.  In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south.  Taps would
> be great in a static environment where you can install them once and not
> worry about new customers.  The area I designed for was only 30% built
> out.  Also, this is the exception to the rule.  I would NEVER advise people
> to build their whole network like this.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> <m...@mailmt.com>
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote: *
>
> Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
> HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
> heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
> perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
> concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.
>
> This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping
> architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I
> wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when
> we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy.
>
> Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
> main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
> viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
> handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
> to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
> well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
> it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
> some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
> there as houses are built and what not.
>
> Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
> the same.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
> large expense.
> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea
> already exists I would rather just buy them.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
> that needs to be set.
>
> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
> sens.
>
> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>
> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That's also a compelling point.
>
> It's not a simple question for sure.
>
> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>
> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
> too.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> When doing full throttle C

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture
very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen
this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested
the idea by another fiber upstart guy.

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
there as houses are built and what not.

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
the same.

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
> large expense.
> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea
> already exists I would rather just buy them.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
> that needs to be set.
>
> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
> sens.
>
> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>
> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That's also a compelling point.
>>
>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>
>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>
>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>> too.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>>
>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>> cabinets.
>>
>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
>> to do PON.
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>>
>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
>> *To:* Adam Moffett
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Adam,
>>
>> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
>> exceed 20Km."
>>
>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>>
>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the
>> last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count
>> cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on
>> density or distance, we will splice in a

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

They have a couple different options to achieve this, but they are much
more expensive than just putting the bare splitters in whatever splice
tray/closure they prefer.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote:

> I think it's Commscope (TE) that also has a solution that is for FBT with
> their MST/DLX options.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few
>> handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about
>> 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are
>> starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up
>> a spreadsheet and play with it.
>>
>> On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90
>>> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?
>>>
>>> Class B or class C optics?
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
>>> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
>>> too.
>>>
>>> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made
>>> in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They
>>> are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON
>>> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON
>>> techs.
>>>
>>> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second
>>> "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.
>>>
>>> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so
>>> handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from
>>> the cabinet.
>>>
>>> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's
>>>> got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.
>>>>
>>>> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't
>>>> remember the name of can be uneven.
>>>> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler",
>>>> and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>
>>>> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
>>>> misunderstanding you?
>>>>
>>>> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff
>>>> with Ubiquiti's offering...
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at
>>>>> that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4
>>>>> and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can 
>>>>> be
>>>>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
>>>>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
>>>>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <
>>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
>>>>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
>>>>> seems like a nightmare.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>&

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few
handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about
12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are
starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up
a spreadsheet and play with it.

On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90
> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?
>
> Class B or class C optics?
>
>
> ------ Original Message --
> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
> too.
>
> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in
> any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are
> common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON
> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON
> techs.
>
> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal"
> PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.
>
> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole
> with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the
> cabinet.
>
> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got
>> 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.
>>
>> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't
>> remember the name of can be uneven.
>> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and
>> the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
>> misunderstanding you?
>>
>> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with
>> Ubiquiti's offering...
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that
>>> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
>>> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be
>>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
>>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
>>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
>>>
>>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband.
>>> com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
>>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
>>> seems like a nightmare.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan
>>>> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate.
>>>> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went
>>>> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
>>>> that solves the problem.
>>>>
>>>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
>>>> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
>>>> wifi and voip.
>>>>
>>>> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a
>>>> lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Chuck,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
>>>>> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
that needs to be set.

We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
sens.

I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> That's also a compelling point.
>
> It's not a simple question for sure.
>
> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>
> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
> too.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
> cabinets.
>
> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to
> do PON.
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chuck,
>
> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>
> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
> *To:* Adam Moffett
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Adam,
>
> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
> exceed 20Km."
>
> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>
> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the
> last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count
> cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on
> density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons
> 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.
>
> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage
> per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:*
>
> Maybe I need to review the math.
>
> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't
> compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber
> back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 
> To: "Adam Moffett" 
> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> Adam,
>
> How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.
> Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:*
>
> I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking
> at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line
> down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then
> I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses
> per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.
>
> Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't
> seeming to work out for me.
>
> I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON
> some day if I want to.
>
> We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years
> of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can
> put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as
> far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Josh Reynolds" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> A few reasons...
>
> Port cost is still fairly high.
>
> More splicing.
>
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
too.

The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in
any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are
common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON
wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON
techs.

Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal"
PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.

We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole
with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the
cabinet.

On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got
> 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.
>
> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't
> remember the name of can be uneven.
> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and
> the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
> misunderstanding you?
>
> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with
> Ubiquiti's offering...
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that
>> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
>> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be
>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband.
>> com> wrote:
>>
>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
>> seems like a nightmare.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>>
>>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan
>>> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate.
>>> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went
>>> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
>>> that solves the problem.
>>>
>>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
>>> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
>>> wifi and voip.
>>>
>>> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a
>>> lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chuck,
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
>>>> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>>>>
>>>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality
>>>> made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>>>>
>>>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500
>>>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to
>>>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc
>>>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626
>>>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
>>>>
>>>> Gerard
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are using this now?
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Gerard Dupont
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>>
>>&

Re: [AFMUG] Operation horse trailer

[Chris Fabien]

search "Fiber splicing door" on ebay if you haven't found these yet.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:37 PM,  wrote:

> Nice, thanks.
>
> *From:* David Coudron
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 6:02 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Operation horse trailer
>
>
> Ice Fishing house suppliers have lots of this stuff.   This one might be
> lighter than you are looking for, but there are other options out there:
>
>
>
> http://fishhousesupply.com/fish-house-doors/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *David Coudron*
>
> david.coud...@advantenon.com |  *Mobile: *612-991-7474 <(612)%20991-7474>
>
>
>
> *Advantenon, Inc.  *   [image: cid:image001.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]
>   [image:
> cid:image002.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]   
> [image:
> cid:image003.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0]   
> [image:
> cid:image004.png@01CEE562.60FF8FC0] 
>
> i...@advantenon.com |  3500 Vicksburg Lane N, Suite 315, Plymouth, MN
> 55447 |  www.advantenon.com |  *Phone:* 800-704-4720 <(800)%20704-4720> |
> *Local: *612-454-1545 <(612)%20454-1545>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:27 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Operation horse trailer
>
>
>
> Is underway.
>
> Conversion to fiber splicing trailer.  Will post photos as we make
> progress.
>
> I wonder if you can buy an RV door with frame somewhere?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that
splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be
tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.

On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
wrote:

Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
seems like a nightmare.


On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan
> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate.
> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went
> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
> that solves the problem.
>
> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
> wifi and voip.
>
> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot
> of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
>> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>>
>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made
>> unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>>
>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500
>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to
>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc
>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626
>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
>>
>> Gerard
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>>>
>>> You are using this now?
>>>
>>> *From:* Gerard Dupont
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
>>>
>>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon
>>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-
>>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
>>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o
>>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port
>>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
>>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
>>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20
>>> 745.html
>>> 20M $7.66
>>> 10M $5.66
>>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
>>>
>>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
>>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
>>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024
>>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
>>>
>>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
>>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11
>>> 528.html
>>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
>>>
>>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few
>>> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
>>>
>>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per
>>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS
>>> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per
>>> port.
>>>
>>> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU
>>> management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)
>>>
>>> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always
>>> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to
>>> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to
>>> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Chris Fabien]

With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan ISP
have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. The
only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went with,
if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router that
solves the problem.

Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway when
they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC wifi and
voip.

We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot
of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.



On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont"  wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>
> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made
> unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>
> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped.
> I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to this Huawei
> version. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-
> MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.
> 7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
>
> Gerard
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>>
>> You are using this now?
>>
>> *From:* Gerard Dupont
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
>>
>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon
>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-
>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o
>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port
>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20
>> 745.html
>> 20M $7.66
>> 10M $5.66
>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
>>
>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024
>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
>>
>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11
>> 528.html
>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
>>
>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few
>> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
>>
>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per
>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS
>> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per
>> port.
>>
>> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring
>> (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)
>>
>> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always
>> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to
>> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to
>> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different
>> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.
>>
>> Gerard
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> ONT Housing (Clam Shell)  $   29.00
>>> ONT  $ 215.00
>>> Unicam  $   15.00
>>> Cyber Power  $   81.00
>>> Cyber Install  $ 110.00
>>> House Sub Total * $ 450.00 *
>>>
>>> OLT $11K/8/32  $   42.97
>>> OIM $845/32  $   38.27
>>> Splitter $900/32  $   39.43
>>> DLC per Sub Subtotal * $ 120.67 *
>>>
>>>
>>> Electronics/Sub Total Expense * $ 570.67 *
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser and
>>> a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.
>>>
>>>
>>> So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62
>>> per user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for
>>> electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But,
>>> we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we
>>> are debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure
>>> Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any
>>> type of major upgrade for several years.
>>>
>>> But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Rodeo networks IPTV

[Chris Fabien]

I would wait a few months and check back, I think (hope) they are getting
close but have zero trust in anything they are telling me that I can't
see/verify. If there was something with similar capabilities in terms of
pricing/channels we would have bailed long ago, but I couldn't find another
option that I thought would work for my customers.

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 6:09 PM, Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> thanks for your feedback.  I've heard similar experiences from others
> which is now making me gun shy.  I like their pricing and channel lineup
> but if they can't deliver then it really doesn't matter much.
>
> -sean
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> They are NOT ready to launch yet. They have been signing resellers up for
>> close to a year and they are still building a proper headend with adequate
>> bandwidth to provide the service. We signed with them in March, still don't
>> have anything we can sell.  The product has promise and they give you the
>> flexibility to create your own channel lineup so you can really offer a
>> good value to your customers, but the months and months of excuses and poor
>> communication have us about ready to throw in the towel on it. I can
>> discuss more offlist if you like.
>>
>> Chris Fabien
>> LakeNet LLC
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello AF gang,
>>>
>>> We are looking at potentially going with Rodeo Networks IPTV solution on
>>> our network but I wanted to first ask the group if anyone has any
>>> experience with them.  If so would you be willing to discuss (either
>>> on-list or off-list) your experience.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> -Sean
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Rodeo networks IPTV

[Chris Fabien]

They are NOT ready to launch yet. They have been signing resellers up for
close to a year and they are still building a proper headend with adequate
bandwidth to provide the service. We signed with them in March, still don't
have anything we can sell.  The product has promise and they give you the
flexibility to create your own channel lineup so you can really offer a
good value to your customers, but the months and months of excuses and poor
communication have us about ready to throw in the towel on it. I can
discuss more offlist if you like.

Chris Fabien
LakeNet LLC


On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote:

> Hello AF gang,
>
> We are looking at potentially going with Rodeo Networks IPTV solution on
> our network but I wanted to first ask the group if anyone has any
> experience with them.  If so would you be willing to discuss (either
> on-list or off-list) your experience.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Sean
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] fiber conduit depth

[Chris Fabien]

It is possible. There are many companies who promote microfiber duct
systems for drops, which are designed to not be very deep. This would
suggest it is not a problem in small plastic conduit. But they would be a
good source for more information. Clearfield is one that comes to mind as
pushing microduct.

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 5:17 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> So we buried a 3/4 PVC conduit about 8" deep for a drop cable.  Due to
> obstacles, that's as deep as it was realistically going to go.  Now
> somebody is wondering whether ice in the conduit is going to be a problem.
> We're assuming in the long run water will always get in, but the question
> is whether it'll hurt the fiber when it freezes.
>
> The person doing the wondering speculates that when the ice expands it
> will crush the cable and damage the fibers.  Is this actually possible?
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Boring under 20ft of concrete

[Chris Fabien]

Rent a maxi sneaker or similar trencher with a rotary compaction boring
attachment would be the easiest way.
Is the patio right up against the house on one side? That does make it a
little harder, may need to cut a small hole on that side.

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 6:02 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

> Getting a new well installed and the pump guy wants to cut 3ft x 20ft out
> of my patio, surely this could be bored (only needs 1 1/4 to 1-1/2 line)
> any ideas that aren't super difficult?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Extralink closures

[Chris Fabien]

We use an empty multilink NID cost about $15. Doesn't have any features
inside so if you want a splice tray, screw one in... If you want to mount a
media converter, screw it on etc.

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Interesting. So if you get something that is cheesy and cheap for $20 to
> $30 per box, for a side of house FTTH termination box...  Can anyone
> recommend something that's noticeably better quality at $45-50/piece?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 1:13 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Looks exactly like the stuff from fs.com.
>> http://www.fs.com/products/35858.html
>>
>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 26, 2017 2:06 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Extralink closures
>>
>> Baltic Networks is carrying a line of fiber enclosures from a company
>> called Extralink, which I think is based in Poland.
>>
>> https://www.balticnetworks.com/manufacturers/extralink/distr
>> ibution-terminal-boxes.html
>>
>> They're very cheap, and for some reason they all have girl's names. I
>> bought the "Laura" just to see what it was like.  After setting it up today
>> it was very unimpressive, and I don't think I would ever want to use this
>> in real life.  I could itemized complaints, but basically every part of it
>> cheesy.
>>
>> The manufacturer's page is very light on details though, so I'm wondering
>> if maybe I should try a different one before I write them off.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] New WISP in NC needs backhaul solution!

[Chris Fabien]

For a new startup, the pricing you listed at 2.2/meg plus $750, that
actually sounds pretty reasonable to get you into a fiber circuit in the
100-300 meg range.

You're not going to be getting 20 cents per meg for DIA unless you are
buying a 10gig circuit in a datacenter or other very competitive market.

Long term, arranging transport to a data center is the right direction, but
it usually isn't cost effective until you are over 1Gig of traffic. Unless
you happen to be close to stimulus built fiber you can connect to really
cheap.

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Al Rachide  wrote:

> We are getting ready to go live from a small connection in our office,
> just to the local community, using a omni antenna. We will be expanding
> throughout three counties in eastern NC. Having read a number of post where
> others are claiming rates as low as $0.20 per mbit/sec, we can't get
> anything here for less than $2.20 per mbit/sec, PLUS a fixed loop fee of
> $750.00 per month per pop. So, how can we find a cheaper backhaul solution
> here in the boonies of NC? We have CenturyLink and Spectrum available for
> local connection, but would like to know about other options for the actual
> internet / backhaul connection. PS: We attended our first WISPA convention
> in Memphis and it will not be the last!
>
> Al Rachide
> Eastern Caroline Broadband, LLC
> Pink Hill, NC 28572
>

Re: [AFMUG] OTT-TV

[Chris Fabien]

We are in process of deploying Rodeo. It's been a long process and still
not ready to launch. Be advised their system is true IGMP multicast and
needs some specific network features to support that. Also will NOT handle
packet loss or network congestion well at all. It's not like netflix where
it goes to lower quality or buffers nicely.

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Dave  wrote:

> Anyone here doing Over The Top TV with their subs?
> If so, What are some issues you deal with and which content provider are
> you working with?
> We are looking into Rodeo and RealChoice for this solution.
> Being that we are all wireless we want to be able to provide voip and some
> video with our higher tier package.
>
>
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] Frontier Pole Attachment contact

[Chris Fabien]

Cost, approval process, can you do the work yourself, do you have to be a
CLEC?

On Sep 4, 2017 4:05 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've done it with other companies, but not Frontier.  What did you want to
> know?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 9/4/2017 10:54:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Frontier Pole Attachment contact
>
> Mike do you have any info you can share about what the process and costs
> involved in this would be?
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> Sent offlist.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"timreichhart" <timreichh...@hometowncable.net>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, September 4, 2017 9:11:21 AM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Frontier Pole Attachment contact
>>
>> Mike
>> if you can send it to me also that would be great.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Date: 09/03/17 09:07
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Frontier Pole Attachment contact
>>
>> Thank you Mike!
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 9/2/2017 9:46:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Frontier Pole Attachment contact
>>
>> Sent offlist.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From:* "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 1, 2017 3:21:15 PM
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Frontier Pole Attachment contact
>>
>> Maybe a long shot, but does anyone here have a contact at Frontier
>> Telephone for pole attachment or joint use of plant?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Frontier Pole Attachment contact

[Chris Fabien]

Mike do you have any info you can share about what the process and costs
involved in this would be?

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Sent offlist.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"timreichhart" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, September 4, 2017 9:11:21 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Frontier Pole Attachment contact
>
> Mike
> if you can send it to me also that would be great.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
> --
> -Original Message-
> From: "Adam Moffett" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Date: 09/03/17 09:07
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Frontier Pole Attachment contact
>
> Thank you Mike!
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 9/2/2017 9:46:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Frontier Pole Attachment contact
>
> Sent offlist.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From:* "Adam Moffett" 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Friday, September 1, 2017 3:21:15 PM
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Frontier Pole Attachment contact
>
> Maybe a long shot, but does anyone here have a contact at Frontier
> Telephone for pole attachment or joint use of plant?
>
> Thanks,
> Adam
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Harvey damage

[Chris Fabien]

Wow, how much generator would it take to run a 100kw radio station? Several
times that I would assume?

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:35 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:

>
>
> Broadcast
> There are 9 radio stations out of service:
> TX – KJOJ-FM, KKTX, KUNO, KPRC, KKWV, KAYK, KZFM, KKBA and KEYS.
>
>
> KJOJ- - 100,000 watt FM (largest signal you can get)
>  KKTX - 50,000 watt FM (pretty large signal)
> KUNO - 1000 watt AM station
> KPRC - 5000 watt AM station
> KKWV - 8500 watt FM station
>  KAYK - 50,000 watt FM
> KZFM - 100,000 fm - glanced at their website, it had this on facebook :
>
> "Hot Z95 will be shutting down for the night at 6pm and will return
> tomorrow at 6am. We like many other South Texans are without electricity
> and are relying on generators to be on air. Some music is better than no
> music! We know AEP is working as hard as they can to restore power to our
> area. Until then we will do what we have to do."
>
> KKBA - 13,000 watt FM
>
> KEYS - well, i want those call letters LOL.
> 1000 watt AM...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Monday, August 28, 2017 12:34 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Harvey damage
>
>
> Thanks for posting these
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Kurt Fankhauser" 
> To: 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Harvey damage
> Date: Mon, Aug 28, 2017 12:19 AM
>
> Communications getting worse from FCC DIRS report differing from Aug 26 to
> Aug 27
>
> https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-346368A1.pdf
> https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-346369A1.pdf
>
> 9 radio stations out of service (up from 5 on Aug 26 report)
> 6 more switching centers, 11 total out of service (up from 5 on Aug 26
> report)
> 320 total cell towers out of service (up from 315 on Aug 26 report)
>
> Will be interesting to see what the Aug 28 report shows, looks like they
> come out at 11:30 each morning
>
> https://www.fcc.gov/harvey
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Jason Wilson 
> wrote:
>
>> From NANOG last night.
>>
>>
>> Hurrican Harvey DIRS report
>>
>> 5 radio stations out of service (WKNC, KKTX, KUNO, KKWV, and KAYK)
>> 149,909 cable and wireline subscribers out of service (5 switching centers
>> out of service, and 38 switching centers on backup power)
>> 4% of cell sites out of service (Aransas, Reugio and San Patricio, TX have
>> more than 50% of cell sites out of service)
>> 9 PSAPs out of service or calls re-routed to another PSAP
>>
>> Aransas, TX is very rural, with only 19 cell sites, 18 out of service.
>>
>>
>> https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-346368A1.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 27, 2017 10:32 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>>
>>> I saw reports this morning of 22+ inches of rain in certain areas, with
>>> > 10 inches expected in the next few days. Rockport seems to be the hardest
>>> hit.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 8/27/2017 9:11 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>>
 Hey guys , anyone getting hammered with rain and winds down in Hill
 Country areas? Tushar, Alan? Some flooding in San Antonio and especially
 Houston  but haven't heard about Austin, Llano, Marble Falls, etc. I have
 some Cambium 180s spares and one Epmp1000 .. stay safe

 Jaime Solorza

>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Aerial fiber $/mile

[Chris Fabien]

We would be interested in a 24" version.

On Aug 20, 2017 8:50 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I did a 24” version too. But if you are splicing a couple of 288 strands
> the splice case is pretty large.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 20, 2017 5:49 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com ; af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Aerial fiber $/mile
>
> 36" diameter?  That's a big honkin handhole. What are you guys putting
> into these hand holes?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 8/20/2017 5:56:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aerial fiber $/mile
>
>
> I was making handhole components a few years ago.  Not a big money maker.
> But handholes are simply too expensive.  I came up with some alternate
> designs, like a slice of 36” plastic conduit.  Made a lid to go over it.
> Maybe I ought to revisit that project.  The world needs lower cost hand
> holes.
>
> *From:* George Skorup
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:46 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Aerial fiber $/mile
>
> We're looking at doing a neighborhood where we have wireless now. Private
> association of about 40 homes. The president is also an electrical
> contractor and has helped us on other non-fiber stuff in the past. So at
> least we can get duct at his cost. Looking like about 6250 feet of duct and
> 21 or 22 handholes. Probably going to follow Chuck Hogg's strategy with 1x4
> PLCs in the splice cases fed by PLCs at the cabinet. My rough guestimates
> are around $25-27k before putting it in the ground or customer drops. We
> figure we can make a business case with a $1k install.
>
> On 8/20/2017 12:31 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>
> It does include the fiber, but not electronics or splice closures. Just
> fiber, associated mounting hardware, and guy wires/anchors.
>
> On Saturday, August 19, 2017, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Drops were anywhere from 150' to 1600'.  The long ones naturally pushed
>> up the average quite a bit.
>>
>> On the feed down the road it's $1.80/foot plus the cable.  The contractor
>> is supplying all material except the cable itself and honestlyI don't
>> recall how much of that was labor vs material.  We did have to add 4 poles,
>> so there's that in the $17,000/mile.  And that also includes splice
>> enclosures, switches, optics, switch enclosure, and electric installation
>> at the switch enclosure.
>>
>> Does your $1/ft in materials include the actual fiber?  If not, then
>> we're very close.  If it does then I have to sharpen the pencil quite a bit.
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Jason McKemie" 
>> To: "javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');" <
>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>
>> Sent: 8/19/2017 3:49:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aerial fiber $/mile
>>
>>
>> How long are the drops? Labor for main runs cost me about $.75/ft last
>> time I did it, plus around $1/ft in materials. I didn't have to do much
>> make ready though, that can add up quickly. I think my drops cost me
>> roughly $1/ft since I'm doing them myself now.
>>
>> On Saturday, August 19, 2017, Adam Moffett > dmmoff...@gmail.com');> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm at $17,000 per mile on a recent active E deployment.  Each customer
>>> installation averaged $900.  This is rural, so lots of long drops.
>>>
>>> I guess I'm looking over to the next stall to see how mine measures up
>>> to yours.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Adam Moffett" 
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>>> Sent: 8/19/2017 9:55:20 AM
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Aerial fiber $/mile
>>>
>>>
>>> So after the dust has settled on completed projects, what sort of money
>>> have you ended up spending per mile?
>>> How much per customer installation?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti uFiber

[Chris Fabien]

We have one bought from the beta store. The MSRP on the OLT is $1499.

I have not been able to get it to pass our IPTV VLAN and ubnt support was
zero help, just told me ask on their forum. There is really no
documentation for it yet.


On Aug 10, 2017 10:54 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> Integrating the OLT and ONT with all of their other products (AirFiber,
> EdgeRouter, Prism, CPE, etc) in a single pane of glass, for one (and for
> free).
>
> Outside of that? TBD.
>
> On Aug 10, 2017 9:42 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
>> I saw it on the Baltic Networks website today, but I've never bought it.
>> What are they doing different from any other fiber?
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Jason McKemie" 
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Sent: 8/10/2017 10:40:14 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti uFiber
>>
>> Those of you testing this stuff, where did you buy it?  All at the beta
>> store? It isn't in stock in the Ubiquiti store right now, Streakwave has an
>> item listed (not in stock), but the price is 3x what it was in the beta
>> store.  Is it really this much of a jump in price?
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Great portable propane generator

[Chris Fabien]

These are really nice little generators. We had a site lose access to
utility power (long story) and ran it off one of these Honda EU2000i for
about 3 months.

The factory gasoline models have a fuel pump and will suck fuel from a
large container as long as the system is air tight. We used a 12 gallon
boat gas tank and it would run about 6 days on 10 gallons of fuel with a
very light load (less than 50W). In ECO mode it will throttle down to a
pretty low RPM if you have a light load like this.

The spec is 100hour oil changes, I used high end synthetic oil and changed
the oil every other fueling, so every 300 hours approximately.

We had no problems with leaving the unit exposed to the rain with a normal
extension cord plugged in to the outlet.

We tried this with the $89 harbor freight 2-cycle generators too, they did
better than expected but only lasted usually 2-4 weeks before they failed.
Not bad for $89 though.

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> 24-48 on a 20lb depending on load and whether its in ecomode
> I think this model spec sheet says it averages .7lb/hr, the one it
> replaced was smaller, we put a 40lb tank if its a weekend or bad storm
>
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Earlier he said 20lb tank for 48 hours.
>>
>> but on an inverter generator I'm sure it will vary with load.
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Brandon Yuchasz" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 8/4/2017 3:47:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Great portable propane generator
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback sounds like it would be a cleaner solution.
>> Ironically I am babysitting a site right now that lost power.
>>
>> How many pound tank do you usually take with it and how long of run time
>> do you get?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 03, 2017 7:31 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Great portable propane generator
>>
>>
>>
>> They recomend running the exaust at the tank in the winter, its caveated
>> with keeping it at a safe distance. They start fine in the cold. There is a
>> model with waterproof plugs, but weve never had issue with rain or snow.
>>
>> These are nice, i can toss it in my front seat with a tall tank in my
>> alero, the gas ones were too big. We have 5 or six portable gas generators
>> collecting dust now
>>
>> Transport of fuel and runtime are huge factors, 48 hours of gasoline is
>> alot of gas, and youd need an external tank. Propane wont varnish your
>> engine guts either. The only thing i dont like about propane is around here
>> nobody will top off tanks by weight, they charge a full fill rate, so short
>> runs are irritating. Talked to the local propane dealer about topping off
>> from our office generator tank, but the pump would be expensive and
>> insuring that is expensive.
>>
>> We have a split hose too so we can run dual tanks if we know a site will
>> be down for an extended time.
>>
>>
>>
>> We do have some lightweight carbon fiber tanks that you can see the
>> liquid level, those are nice. We also use a big heavy chain and padlock to
>> keep the generator from walking away, these WILL get stolen.
>>
>>
>>
>> They have a standby with remote start and all that jazz for about 5k, its
>> way more generator than any of our sites need, but its an option.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 3, 2017 7:03 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>> Because gas goes stale, spoils, coats the insides of everything with
>> varnish etc.
>>
>> Propane is OK in cold weather but there is a minimum tank size for
>> specific deliveries at different low temps.  The more gas you need or the
>> lower the temp the larger the tank.
>>
>>
>>
>> But for a small generator like this, I really think a 5 gallon tank will
>> take you to below zero.
>>
>> Perfectly efficient 1000 watts is 3412 Btu/hr  But in the real world
>> figure 10 btu/hr per watt.
>>
>>
>>
>> If it scales linearly, a 5 gallon tank can deliver about 5000 btu/hr at 0
>> degrees F.
>>
>> So perhaps a 500 watt load on the generator.
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually I found a chart:
>>
>> [image: image]
>>
>>
>>
>> So, assuming you need 10,000 BTU for 1000 watts, your 5 gallon barbecue
>> grill tank will work down to 0 degrees until it drops below 20% full.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Brandon Yuchasz
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 03, 2017 5:49 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Great portable propane generator
>>
>>
>>
>> We are in need of a new generator so I am following along with interest.
>> My question is why not just use gas instead of propane? What is the up
>> side. Second question is how does the propane fair in cold weather. Say 20F
>> or less?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 03, 2017 6:22 PM

Re: [AFMUG] Rates for fiber repair

[Chris Fabien]

You didn't really specify what count fiber this is, what type of splice
closures, how difficult of an environment etc. So $1500 is a bit of a wild
guess... But it's gonna take two guys, probably half a day or more, and tie
up my splicer for a day. That sounds like $1000 to tie up one guy and a
fusion splicer for a day and $500 for the second guy. Assuming materials
are inexpensive that is. If this is 144ct and two new tyco B closures and
trays and splice protectors, etc. Probably $5000 job for that.


On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's about $100 in materials which I already have and 4 hours of labor.
>
> Just at T I feel like I'm way too low, which probably means I should
> change how I'm billing it.  :)
>
> So how do you arrive at $1500?  What's the math?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 7/31/2017 4:39:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rates for fiber repair
>
> Sounds like at least a $1500 job to me...
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 4:36 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm curious what some of you guys might charge for running 200' of new
>> cable through a conduit, adding a splice case at both ends of the conduit,
>> and splicing the old cable to the new section.
>>
>> This is on private property and the existing cable was broken (bent into
>> a hairpin by outside trauma) just outside the conduit.  There's not enough
>> sticking out of the pipe to put a splice there, so I have to run a new
>> piece through the conduit.
>>
>> I guess the scope of work isn't that important though.  I'm more
>> interested in how you bill it.  I know some people use an hourly rate for
>> installing the cable and then a flat fee per splice.  Is there a
>> justification for charging per splice as opposed to charging for T?  Is
>> it to recoup the cost of the splicer perhaps?
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Rates for fiber repair

[Chris Fabien]

Sounds like at least a $1500 job to me...

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 4:36 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I'm curious what some of you guys might charge for running 200' of new
> cable through a conduit, adding a splice case at both ends of the conduit,
> and splicing the old cable to the new section.
>
> This is on private property and the existing cable was broken (bent into a
> hairpin by outside trauma) just outside the conduit.  There's not enough
> sticking out of the pipe to put a splice there, so I have to run a new
> piece through the conduit.
>
> I guess the scope of work isn't that important though.  I'm more
> interested in how you bill it.  I know some people use an hourly rate for
> installing the cable and then a flat fee per splice.  Is there a
> justification for charging per splice as opposed to charging for T?  Is
> it to recoup the cost of the splicer perhaps?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Is there such a thing as a AC Capacitor?

[Chris Fabien]

You need a faster UPS or if you are feeling hacky, open the device up and
see if you could add capacitor to a DC bus inside.

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
wrote:

> Got some  gear that hangs when UPS switches from AC power to Batts… needs
> something to power AC for microseconds
>
>
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Managed Home Security

[Chris Fabien]

Careful on state regulations on security systems. In Michigan, we can do
security cameras but cannot do anything having to do with a
burglar/security alarm system unless we are licensed by the state, and it's
a fairly arduous process to get that license.

On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

> Same backend as Vivint AFAIK
>
> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 5:29 PM, Jeremy  wrote:
>
>> I believe that you can resell through alarm.com as well, after you get
>> certified.  We are using the service through a third party.  They have it
>> branded, and have a remote app and everything.  It works well.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Harold Bledsoe 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Funny you mention that.  We also see that as a gap and good revenue
>>> opportunity.
>>>
>>> http://na.smc.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/SMC_Ignite
>>> Net_Tech_Brief-v1.0.pdf
>>>
>>> The Secure Watch service is only available sold through operators so hit
>>> me offlist if you want more details.  The high level is that you provision
>>> cameras through the IgniteNet controller for a customer and then ship or
>>> install them at that customer.  In the provisioning, the customer gets a
>>> welcome email with instructions from the Secure Watch system to finish
>>> setting up the account etc.
>>>
>>> I use it myself and what I like most about it is that there is a bucket
>>> plan where multiple cameras share storage so the cost is sane when you have
>>> more than one camera (compared to Nest Cam and others).
>>>
>>> Easy Peasy!
>>>
>>> -Hal
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 1:06 PM Chris Wright 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Dovetailing with the managed WiFi thread, and since the market is
 receptive to value-added services like VOIP and WiFi… what’s anyone doing
 for managed home security systems, cameras, etc.? I’ve looked at Novi and
 wasn’t impressed with their offerings. I love the UBNT cameras, but there’s
 no turnkey way to resell that I can see.



 Chris Wright

 Network Administrator



>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Trace wire for fiber going in duct.

[Chris Fabien]

Millennium

On Jul 8, 2017 10:02 PM, "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net> wrote:

> What supplier?
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>
> On Jul 8, 2017, at 8:15 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
> You can get purpose designed trace wire that is copper clad high tensile
> strength steel wire with a heavy polyethylene jacket. For 14ga we pay about
> 6 cents a foot on 2500ft spools.
>
> On Jul 8, 2017 4:25 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I didn't purchase it directly, got it through a contractor.
>>
>> On Saturday, July 8, 2017, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have never used it.  I’ll bet it is spendy.
>>>
>>> *From:* Jason McKemie
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 8, 2017 12:03 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Trace wire for fiber going in duct.
>>>
>>> It doesn't help if the conduit is already in place, but they make
>>> conduit with integrated trace wire.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 8, 2017, Paul McCall <pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Newbie questions…
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are doing conduit for a business park (14 buildings) and to the RR
>>>> tracks for a path to Miami.  Conduit is almost finished and as an
>>>> afterthought I was thinking of placing some kind of locate wire in the
>>>> pipe, so we can “register it” with One -Call service (in Florida) and make
>>>> I easier for future people to locate my stuff.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did I mention it was a newbie question right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do I put in?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Paul McCall, President
>>>>
>>>> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>>>>
>>>> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>>>>
>>>> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>>>>
>>>> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>>>>
>>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pa...@pdmnet.net');
>>>>
>>>> www.pdmnet.com
>>>>
>>>> www.floridabroadband.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Trace wire for fiber going in duct.

[Chris Fabien]

You can get purpose designed trace wire that is copper clad high tensile
strength steel wire with a heavy polyethylene jacket. For 14ga we pay about
6 cents a foot on 2500ft spools.

On Jul 8, 2017 4:25 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
wrote:

> Yeah, I didn't purchase it directly, got it through a contractor.
>
> On Saturday, July 8, 2017,  wrote:
>
>> I have never used it.  I’ll bet it is spendy.
>>
>> *From:* Jason McKemie
>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 8, 2017 12:03 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Trace wire for fiber going in duct.
>>
>> It doesn't help if the conduit is already in place, but they make conduit
>> with integrated trace wire.
>>
>> On Saturday, July 8, 2017, Paul McCall  wrote:
>>
>>> Newbie questions…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are doing conduit for a business park (14 buildings) and to the RR
>>> tracks for a path to Miami.  Conduit is almost finished and as an
>>> afterthought I was thinking of placing some kind of locate wire in the
>>> pipe, so we can “register it” with One -Call service (in Florida) and make
>>> I easier for future people to locate my stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Did I mention it was a newbie question right?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What do I put in?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul McCall, President
>>>
>>> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>>>
>>> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>>>
>>> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>>>
>>> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>>>
>>> javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pa...@pdmnet.net');
>>>
>>> www.pdmnet.com
>>>
>>> www.floridabroadband.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Dealing with a lease violation (5ghz)

[Chris Fabien]

Your recourse would be with the landlord. Unfortunately this puts them in a
bad situation since they violated the terms of your lease with them. I
don't think you have any way to make a claim agianst the other ISP unless
you had some non-compete agreement with them or something.

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> is there realistically any recourse?
>
> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
>
>> And your question is?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/27/2017 11:05 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>>> I am not asking about any FCC Part X rules, I know this isn't an FCC
>>> issue under any circumstances.
>>>
>>> We have leases with all our POP landlords, in the lease we own the site
>>> spectrum, with the exception of very few locations we don't collocate, just
>>> not worth the hassle.
>>>
>>> I come rolling up on a site today, 100 feet from our POP is a new POP,
>>> not us, cause though I used to enjoy spooning some powder with baking soda,
>>> I don't smoke crack, POP#2 isn't ours, even though its on the same
>>> property, Id recall a full EPMP and backhaul deployment.
>>>
>>> I'm an honest operator, very honest, like the first time UBT sent us new
>>> stickers for spectrum I made sure we actually put them out (be honest,
>>> pretty much NOBODY did that) I turn down power where we don't need it. I do
>>> my best to make sure we are compliant. I fought bosses to remove non
>>> compliant stuff I put up before I knew better. For the most part, I'm a
>>> good fucking neighbor, ask anybody abutting me. (with the exception of one
>>> location I collocate where I'm a dick, but a legal dick)
>>>
>>> So you can understand my dismay, being the pillar of the spectrum
>>> community Ive tried to be (also found out today I inadvertently fucked a
>>> fellow wisp on a bad choice I made with no follow up, I owned it with him
>>> and will be working on fixing that as of tomorrow)
>>>
>>> I approach everything with combat boots, assuming a battle. I'm guessing
>>> when it gets in the database this backhaul is going to be UBNT 11ghz, or
>>> some other nonsense (probably affiliated with the over wind loaded tower
>>> 3/4 miles away with 3, yes 3, UBNT 5ghz peanut shaped airfibers within 8
>>> feet of one another (one link, one side points to the sky the other side
>>> points to the dirt)
>>>
>>> The question I have is about lease rules, and contract law, which the
>>> bulk of you old timers has dealt with. If the other operator (if its who I
>>> suspect it is, they use fuckery, like the UBNT demo mode, or whatever its
>>> called and other such garbage to even operate overpowered in DFS channels)
>>> doesn't want to play ball, as in "shut that shit off" will we be able to
>>> fight it?
>>>
>>> I know what went down, and how it went down, and I suspect I know who it
>>> is. The usual, guy approaches a site owner, offers unrealistic unicorn
>>> farts, unicorn farts always win, spectrum gets fucked.
>>>
>>> We do 5 year auto renewing leases, with 2 year breakouts. (you guys
>>> would likely cream your jeans seeing our lease, and though Ive asked, no I
>>> cant share it publicly, and yes, it was drawn up by an attorney) we get
>>> full control of the 5, 6, 11, 3, 2, 900mhz, etc spectrum (I don't have a
>>> lease handy to see the specific wording) per the site.
>>>
>>> I know we wouldn't have a horse in the race with the FCC, but with this
>>> boiling down to contract law, whats to stop us from A. willful interference
>>> (assuming out power doesn't get cut) and B. a cease and desist from a court
>>> for the other ISP, pending the 2 year termination?
>>>
>>> I'm handing this to the boss to handle, because my communication will
>>> start with "listen here motherfucker" and I don't see that as conducive to
>>> a positive outcome. I had my boy with me when I came to the site today
>>> because I was just getting accurate AGLs for bringing in a licensed
>>> backhaul. If he hadn't been with me, I probably would have yanked their
>>> ghetto enclosure off the wall and shot their antennas.
>>>
>>> Ill tell you what, I'm about to start acting like a lot of these yahoos
>>> and saying fuck the FCC, fuck good stewardship of the spectrum, and fuck
>>> general good manners.
>>>
>>> TBH I'm not sure if I'm asking advice here or just venting. probably
>>> both. but FYI, I'm so pissed off right now, if you have an ex old lady who
>>> needs disappeared, I'm your freaking guy
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Mistake: Crimping With PoE Connected?

[Chris Fabien]

You should avoid doing this. The POEs all have overcurrent protection and
will shut down, but if you have an ethernet device on the other side it is
possible to blow the port if you short the pins in just the right way.

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 1:45 PM, David Coudron  wrote:

> We did the same with a Netonix.  Pretty sure the port is shot.  Might be
> OK after a reboot of the switch but never tested very heavily since we
> didn't need the port.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
> *From:* Af  on behalf of Christopher Gray <
> cg...@graytechsoftware.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 23, 2017 12:07:53 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Mistake: Crimping With PoE Connected?
>
> So, I made a mistake and crimped a cable end while the PoE was still
> connected to the other end (Cambium ePMP gigabit PoE). I saw a small spark
> while the crimper hit the contacts.
>
> I expected to have to re-do the end and possibly replace the PoE, but
> everything was fine.
>
> Are some injectors just less sensitive than others? I hear a Netonix will
> lose a port if you do that. Are there any crimpers with non-conductive dies?
>
> -Chris
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] private community fiber network

[Chris Fabien]

7. You don't need that large of duct for this, 1" or 1.25" at the most
would be sufficient. Expect to pay around 0.25 per ft for 1" and 0.35 per
ft for 1.25", ballpark numbers.
8. If it's going to all be in conduit, I would use 12F drop cable instead
of "normal" loose tube cable. Actually on a project like this I would just
direct bury the 12F drop with a small drop plow everywhere possible to save
money.
9. We get some nice 17x30x15" HDPE Carson handholes from Milennium in the
$70 range. I think they have a smaller size yet for around $40.
9a. NOPE... I actually tried this, it was a dismal failure. It's hard to
make strong, thin, concrete sections.

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 12:32 AM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> adding to list:
> 7: 2-4 in duct, good price vendors, preference is mutilple innerduct
> 8. appropriate general purpose fiber for this type of project vendor
> 9. good price vendor for handholes
> 9a. would it just be cheaper to form a bunch of handholes and get concrete
> at 80 bucks a yard
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:03 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> A few questions, this being a family estate property that was subdivided
>> into different lots. There are 8 current homes, haven't looked at a platt
>> map yet to see how the lots are legally divided, so there is that. This is
>> about interconnecting and somewhere in the mix bringing in interwebs. To
>> run past all the current lots is roughly 8050 feet. There would be 4
>> "fingers" the longest being 3300 feet, passing 3 houses with the longest
>> distance between those 3 being 1400 feet, 300 feet of this would be
>> underwater.
>> This is not a ROW, issue, they don't want it in ROW, I assume they need
>> some sort of legal easement on record for the duct. I know zero about this.
>> Here are some questions:
>> 1. the underwater part. is that normally duct or just underwater fiber.
>> 1a. this pond is stocked by DNR, does that require some crummy permit to
>> drop fiber into even though its privately owned, I don't know what the
>> trade off is for DNR stocking.
>> 2. When passing a lot, do you normally put a handhole in each lot?
>> 3. if a utility ROW is crossed, does that need a permit?
>> 4. Whats the specific terminology, I think its easement, that makes the
>> duct accessible, like ROW, legally even if the property changes hands
>> 5. How does one get this buried cable/duct into a location service
>> database
>> 5.a when a locate is called in who pays? (USIC is the locating agency
>> around here)
>> 6.how much longer will this list of questions get before it gets too hard
>>
>> In this instance, it will all be cut trench, that's free, for them. This
>> is all unincorporated land in a county. however there has been a history of
>> forced incorporation attempts. should that happen, what happens with this
>> duct?
>>
>> assuming there is some chatter on this, anticipate more detailed
>> questions on tech specs
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] private community fiber network

[Chris Fabien]

1.  You want innerduct  buried in the soil several feet under the water.
Thia would be done by directional boring. 300ft is no problem. Probably
"should" require erosion/sedmentation control permit and possibly wetlands
study. But you can get away with about anything in a private location.

2. Handhole anywhere you want to splice.

3. Always needs a locate ticket called in to state agency. Occasionally
needs a permit/contract usually only for high profile stuff like
transmisson pipelines.

4. If you are going to own this duct and cable then you want a solid
easement for occupancy and future access. We try to get a blanket easement
so we dont have to worry about our path surveyors etc.

5. Youll need to become a utility member of the locate system.

5a. Usic is a locate contractor hired by some utilities. The state agency
just takes calls and sends out tickets. The utility is responsible for
marking the lines or paying someone to do it.

6. It IS hard... too hard is up to you to determine. This project should
require a very significant contribution from the property owners to make
financial sense.

On Jun 20, 2017 11:04 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

A few questions, this being a family estate property that was subdivided
into different lots. There are 8 current homes, haven't looked at a platt
map yet to see how the lots are legally divided, so there is that. This is
about interconnecting and somewhere in the mix bringing in interwebs. To
run past all the current lots is roughly 8050 feet. There would be 4
"fingers" the longest being 3300 feet, passing 3 houses with the longest
distance between those 3 being 1400 feet, 300 feet of this would be
underwater.
This is not a ROW, issue, they don't want it in ROW, I assume they need
some sort of legal easement on record for the duct. I know zero about this.
Here are some questions:
1. the underwater part. is that normally duct or just underwater fiber.
1a. this pond is stocked by DNR, does that require some crummy permit to
drop fiber into even though its privately owned, I don't know what the
trade off is for DNR stocking.
2. When passing a lot, do you normally put a handhole in each lot?
3. if a utility ROW is crossed, does that need a permit?
4. Whats the specific terminology, I think its easement, that makes the
duct accessible, like ROW, legally even if the property changes hands
5. How does one get this buried cable/duct into a location service database
5.a when a locate is called in who pays? (USIC is the locating agency
around here)
6.how much longer will this list of questions get before it gets too hard

In this instance, it will all be cut trench, that's free, for them. This is
all unincorporated land in a county. however there has been a history of
forced incorporation attempts. should that happen, what happens with this
duct?

assuming there is some chatter on this, anticipate more detailed questions
on tech specs

Re: [AFMUG] what is the typical wind load of an 80' telephone pole?

[Chris Fabien]

If you have any backhaul dishes planned for it, I think your question is
not going to be the max antennas it can handle without breaking, but how
much you can load it vs how much deflection in the signal will be
acceptable. That might be hard to calculate, it's a beam bending problem
with a tapered wood beam.

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 11:19 PM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> This pole is actually 80’ above ground.  I misstated my question.  I meant
> what is the wind load capacity of the pole to determine how many antennas I
> can put on it.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Christopher Gray
> *Sent:* Monday, June 5, 2017 4:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] what is the typical wind load of an 80' telephone
> pole?
>
>
>
> What is the height of an installed 80' pole?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 7:10 PM,  wrote:
>
> I'm impressed you can 80' wooden pole in for $5500.  Here it was closer to
> $10,000.  Just the pole itself was a few $k.  Transport from the yard to a
> worksite was $2500.  It's over the length limit for NYS roads, so we have
> to have escort vehicles and file a plan with the DOT. Some pole contractors
> didn't even want to do it.
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 6:35 PM, Eric Muehleisen  wrote:
>
> Funny you mention this. I just got off the phone with the power company
> about the exact same thing. Around here anything higher than 65 ft is
> considered transmission line pole and gets expensive.
>
>
>
> $5,500 for 80 ft.
>
> $2,500 for 65 ft.
>
> $1,000 for 40 ft.
>
> that cost includes the pole and labor to plant it.
>
>
>
> Also, you can't set a meter on the pole unless they retain ownership or
> you lease the pole as part of the service. The cost to run lines and/or
> transformers is on you as well. So plant your pole close to the existing
> grid.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> *Rory Conaway **• Triad Wireless •** CEO*
>
> *4226 S. 37th Street • Phoenix • AZ 85040*
>
> *602-426-0542 <(602)%20426-0542>*
>
> *r...@triadwireless.net *
>
> *www.triadwireless.net *
>
>
>
> “"Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
> features yet."— Scott Adams
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Pull blade vs chute blade

[Chris Fabien]

That size machine, probably an 18" depth would be the max I would attempt
with a chute blade.

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> What size chute blade are you able to use with the 410sx?
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2017, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>
>> I've done the chute method and the pull blade.  After many times of
>> issues with the pull blade, we stuck with the chute.  A pull blade in my
>> opinion is only good for short straight shots.  All the cable contractors
>> around here are required to do chute.
>>
>> We use chutes on all of our plows, from the smallest hand plow to the
>> largest RT115 we have.  From 18" to 4'+ in the ground.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 3:23 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> I have only used vibratory plows with a chute, so not sure a serrated
>>> plow blade would be a great help.  Have not seen one.
>>>
>>> *From:* Joe
>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 26, 2017 1:14 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pull blade vs chute blade
>>>
>>>
>>> Great question… there is a few key differences.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With a chute, you can drop in multiple conduit… BIG advantage, sometimes
>>> we put in 2x 1.5” or 1.5” plus a ¾”.  One for fiber, one for power if a
>>> customer wants power at a driveway (gates, light, sensor)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are required to put in a “caution tape”, must use a chute…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are going in a straight line, pulling is great.  Less HP needed.
>>>
>>>Many or sharp curves… use a chute
>>>
>>>Or plan for adding couplers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If soil conditions are soft, chute works great.  No breakage or pipe
>>> stretching.
>>>
>>> If soil conditions are packed/hard… add more horsepower/traction for a
>>> chute
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Using a pull blade to run the path without product in hard ground on the
>>> first pass, then go back with the pull blade on the second pass and pull
>>> the product.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have roots, the pull blade with serrated teeth do a great job.  I
>>> haven’t seen a serrated edge on a chute.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Friction is not your friend when pulling…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And size of the machine… when using a chute, you need more traction /
>>> weight / HP.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 26, 2017 1:24 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Pull blade vs chute blade
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are there situations for which one is better than the other?  I know
>>> pulling limits your distance, I'm not sure otherwise.
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Sharing infrastructure you put in

[Chris Fabien]

Isn't there something where if you install conduit on someone's private
property (like from the road ROW into a building) another provider can cut
into your conduit and use it, outside of the public ROW? Thought I read
something about that on this list.



On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:18 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Good point, being a CLEC may open the door to unwanted sharing.
>
> *From:* Trey Scarborough
> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2017 7:24 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sharing infrastructure you put in
>
> Typically no you shouldn't have to share, but it could be a requirement in
> some instances to provide available space if it exists due to permit.
> Usually only in large cities one way they get access for city and utility
> fiber. Another instance would be if you are a CLEC and you have a shared
> access agreement with ATT, VZ, Centrurlink, etc. there is would be a mutual
> rate described in this agreement.
>
> On 5/21/2017 10:56 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> INAL, but it's all yours.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, May 21, 2017 10:54:29 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Sharing infrastructure you put in
>
> I have some questions on those that are doing buried fiber.  We have not
> filed a CLEC status yet as I have contract review going with my uniquely
> grandfathered access to a local fiber ring, and want to make sure I don't
> mess that up.  So, that aside.
>
> If my company puts in conduit in a right away to push fiber into and then
> someone else comes along, do we have to share that conduit with anyone (if
> there is room)?  My perception going the other way, is that if the LEC has
> conduit in place, the LEC may or may not have to share conduit space, and
> can't make reasons or excused or very long delays etc., to ultimately deter
> you from being able to do that.
>
> I a considering doing conduit to 3 1000+ communities and then FTTH in
> those communities and don't feel great if I am in anyway also setting it up
> for a competitor to have access to my hard fought efforts (and $) to get in
> installed.
>
> Is there ANY I could be forced to give them access to my conduit?
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] "blowing conduit"

[Chris Fabien]

If these are private roads and short crossings look into a pneumatic
missile to cross the roads. Maybe that's the "blowing" he's talking about?
I would under no circumstances cut the asphalt, I'm not sure what the
asphalt dude would cost to repair it but it'll never be the same,
especially if you trench through it, likely to have some settling after
it's patched and now it turns into a pothole and has to get fixed again.

There's several ways to bore under roads depending on conditions. HDD
(directional boring) as mentioned, pneumatic missile, and if these are only
~20ft wide roads you could even probably do it with a compacting boring
setup on a small cable plow machine.


Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> We are finalizing plans to put fiber throughout a business park and there
> 9 locations where we are planning on crossing private “roads” to connect
> the builldings with conduit (aerial not an option).  Its asphalt in 8 of
> the 9 spots, and the plan was to cut the asphalt (pretty sure our
> ditchwitch will go right through it) go down about 36” fill it in and have
> the local “asphalt dude” seal it up.
>
>
>
> I met with the “superintendent” for the park and he said “Why don’t you
> just blow the conduit in?”  I laughed at first but he insisted it’s a
> “thing”.  Says AT does it all the time.   My only thought is directional
> boring, and he insisted No, that they “blow it in”.   Of course I assume
> directional boring costs (sub contracting) would cost be a lot more than
> just cutting through the asphalt, thus my plan.
>
>
>
> I don’t want to chase my tail so am seeking enlightenment.
>
>
>
> *“blowing in conduit”  ???*
>
>
>
> Paul 
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] New competition in town

[Chris Fabien]

If you zoom in, it looks like the flange only has lags in 2 of the holes.
Why waste 2 lags, come on man, those are like at least a dime a piece!

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Rob Genovesi 
wrote:

> More sense and more cents.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> When you have more time and money?  :-p
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Chuck McCown" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, April 27, 2017 11:39:25 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] New competition in town
>>
>> My favorite version:
>>
>> There is always enough time and money to do it right the second time.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 10:31 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New competition in town
>>
>> I'm reminded of the old saw: "If you have the time to do it over, why
>> didn't you have the time in the first place?"
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 4/27/2017 9:28 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>> > On 4/27/17 07:29, Jay Weekley wrote:
>> >> Bleeding money you can't afford to lose and trying to make every dollar
>> >> count.
>> >
>> >
>> > Even if I were at the "UBNT WISP starter kit" stage I'd at least do a
>> > decent mount lest the thing flip over in the wind and break stuff that
>> > will cost more to fix. Fixing broken equipment isn't making even
>> > dollar count.
>> >
>> > ~Seth
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Small Trencher

[Chris Fabien]

We tell the customer to do it for wireless installs. Dont want hassle of
utility locates etc.

On Apr 11, 2017 12:54 PM, "Matt"  wrote:

> What is everyone using to trench short drops in?  Not just fiber but
> we frequently must put a pole in yard where there is LOS to the tower.
> We already have a large unit that we must haul with trailer but was
> looking for something that would fit on back of truck etc.
>

Re: [AFMUG] The better fiber NID box

[Chris Fabien]

>From Milennium.

We have been putting FTC11 media converters in these. looking at mouting
the UBNT ONT in them instead for this year. We mount it to the back on an
angle, store a couple loops of slack drop cable around the perimieter of
the box. We terminate the fiber into an LC connector directly so do not use
a splice tray. There would probably be room for a small splice tray if you
wanted.

Chris


On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 8:43 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Where are you getting those for $15? Last place I checked wanted $50-$60.
> I'm using the Corning Optiway nid enclosure. There isn't as good of a place
> to attach a router board as in the one you specified, but it does allow for
> a standard snap-in ONT. Ignitenet claims that they are considering a
> mounting plate for their revised media converter that will snap in to the
> standard size NID closure. That would be nice.
>
> On Thursday, April 6, 2017, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> We use a multilink NID that's about 6 times the size of that for $15.
>> RNI-3620 I think is the model. It does not have the splice tray or adapter
>> holder but has plenty of room to add one if you wanted.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 2:06 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Rather than hijack Paul McCall's thread, this is my version of the same
>>> quest.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.fiberinstrumentsales.com/fis-nid-termination-box-
>>> lc-or-sc-accepts-8-fibers-for-dx-lc.html
>>> I like the above FIS brand NID box.  I like that it has built in slack
>>> storage and flip out splice tray.  I like the option of using snap-in
>>> mating sleeves.  I like that the door comes off by lifting upwards...then I
>>> can use both elbows while I'm in the box.  I like that the entry points are
>>> standard conduit knockout sizes.  I like that it has a retaining clamp for
>>> a drop cable.  I like that it's weather proof.
>>>
>>> What would make me happier:
>>> (1) Forget the lock.  Close it with a captive thumb screw.
>>> (2) A padlock hasp so I *could* lock it.
>>> (3) Make it larger.  I'd want space for a small switch or ONT, and
>>> I'd want to be able to drill out the knockouts one size larger (you can't
>>> now due to depth).
>>> (4) The mounting screw holes in the corners require a long driver
>>> bit, they're just barely too small for my long bit holder.  another
>>> 1/16" would have saved me a trip to the hardware store.
>>> (5) Cheap.
>>>
>>> Someone else would want room for an AC outlet and a UPS, but not me.
>>>
>>> Does my perfect box already exist?  Could McCown build my perfect box
>>> for less than $20,000?
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] The better fiber NID box

[Chris Fabien]

We use a multilink NID that's about 6 times the size of that for $15.
RNI-3620 I think is the model. It does not have the splice tray or adapter
holder but has plenty of room to add one if you wanted.


On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 2:06 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Rather than hijack Paul McCall's thread, this is my version of the same
> quest.
>
>
>
> http://www.fiberinstrumentsales.com/fis-nid-termination-box-lc-or-sc-
> accepts-8-fibers-for-dx-lc.html
> I like the above FIS brand NID box.  I like that it has built in slack
> storage and flip out splice tray.  I like the option of using snap-in
> mating sleeves.  I like that the door comes off by lifting upwards...then I
> can use both elbows while I'm in the box.  I like that the entry points are
> standard conduit knockout sizes.  I like that it has a retaining clamp for
> a drop cable.  I like that it's weather proof.
>
> What would make me happier:
> (1) Forget the lock.  Close it with a captive thumb screw.
> (2) A padlock hasp so I *could* lock it.
> (3) Make it larger.  I'd want space for a small switch or ONT, and I'd
> want to be able to drill out the knockouts one size larger (you can't now
> due to depth).
> (4) The mounting screw holes in the corners require a long driver bit,
> they're just barely too small for my long bit holder.  another 1/16"
> would have saved me a trip to the hardware store.
> (5) Cheap.
>
> Someone else would want room for an AC outlet and a UPS, but not me.
>
> Does my perfect box already exist?  Could McCown build my perfect box for
> less than $20,000?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chris Fabien]

Chuck you might be thinking of a different process. The compaction boring
setup is just a small high-torque hydraulic drive on the plow that allows
you to attach a short drill string. 10ft sections of solid steel shaft
about 3/4" diameter with a compaction auger head on the end. You just make
a short trench on one side, lay the bit in the trench and drill it through
the ground by driving the machine forward. With good aim and a little luck
you usually end up in a pretty good spot on the other side. Very fast and
really no extra mess or equipment involved. Much less trouble than hauling
out a huge compressor trailer.

Chris


On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Yes, if you get them aimed when you are starting them they do a pretty
> good job.
> Easy to transport, setup and use.  No mess compared to boring.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:54 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
> I assume you don't mean the type of missile you launch at your enemies.
>
> I googled for "underground cable missile" and I'm directed to an article
> about some kind of pneumatic hammer/boring thing.  Is that the correct
> device?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 3/22/2017 10:50:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
>
> I think a missile is more useful than the small drill attachments.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:47 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow
>
> We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat
> tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours
> has been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these
> machines will tip if you do something stupid.
>
> The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an
> articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can
> plow a drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to
> fit through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the
> articulated machines.
>
> I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the
> drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a
> digger/excavator is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop
> machine. I would recommend a separate mini excavator if you need one that
> much.
>
> That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what
> model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new
> exactly but ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control
> lever style.
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
>> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
>> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>>
>> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
>> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
>> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
>> useful.
>>
>> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>>
>> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
>> http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -Jason
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chris Fabien]

In addition to using it to make a trench for the boring tool, we also find
it handy for crossing ditches that are too steep or wet to drive the
machine across. You can trench across a fairly wide trench if you can pull
the machine up to the edge on either side of it.

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> What do you find that you use the trencher for? Getting close to things?
>
> On Wednesday, March 22, 2017, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat
>> tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours
>> has been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these
>> machines will tip if you do something stupid.
>>
>> The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an
>> articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can
>> plow a drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to
>> fit through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the
>> articulated machines.
>>
>> I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the
>> drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a
>> digger/excavator is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop
>> machine. I would recommend a separate mini excavator if you need one that
>> much.
>>
>> That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what
>> model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new
>> exactly but ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control
>> lever style.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
>>> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
>>> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>>>
>>> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
>>> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
>>> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
>>> useful.
>>>
>>> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>>>
>>> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
>>> http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> -Jason
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Vibratory Plow

[Chris Fabien]

We have an older maxi sneaker and pretty happy with it. They are somewhat
tippy as Chuck stated but if you get the dual tires they help a lot. Ours
has been rolled down into a ditch once with no damage. Any of these
machines will tip if you do something stupid.

The LM42 I see used a lot by drop guys around here, it's also an
articulated machine so quite maneuverable as is the Maxi Sneaker. We can
plow a drop in through moderately heavy woods and usually can find a way to
fit through the trees. The 410SX I don't think is as manuverable as the
articulated machines.

I would recommend getting one with the trencher attachment and the
drill/bore attachment. We use both fairly regularly. Having a
digger/excavator is handy but I'm not sure I'd want one on my customer drop
machine. I would recommend a separate mini excavator if you need one that
much.

That maxi you sent the pic of has been repainted so you can't see what
model, but the control levers are the newer style. I'm not sure how new
exactly but ours are early 80s machines and they have the older control
lever style.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to decide what make/model of plow to get.  The options, as I
> see them, are the Vermeer LM42, Ditch Witch 410SX, or Case Maxi Sneaker.
> I'll be using this for customer drops as well as some main-runs.
>
> I like the mini excavator attachment for the LM42, although I don't know
> how limiting this will be for the machine if I'm also using it for customer
> drops.  The drill attachment for the 410SX also seems like it could be
> useful.
>
> Anyone have experience with these machines?  Recommendations?
>
> Also, does anyone know what model of Case Maxi Sneaker this is?
> http://i.imgur.com/APCL4TK.jpg
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Jason
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] FW: Interference clauses in commercial tower leases

[Chris Fabien]

Hi Paul,
We put all sorts of protections in our leases on private structures, I'm
sure you do too. When we were dealing with american tower on a cell phone
tower, the most they would approve was a "play nice" clause saying they
would basically require any subsequent tower tenant work in good faith to
resolve any unlicensed interference issues. It offered no real protection.
They clearly did not want to be the frequency police on their towers.
Somewhat understandable I suppose.

Not sure this was helpful but that was our experience.

Chris Fabien
LakeNet LLC



On Mar 20, 2017 8:20 AM, "Paul McCall" <pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote:

> BUMP 
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
> *Sent:* Friday, March 17, 2017 4:56 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Interference clauses in commercial tower leases
>
>
>
> Anyone have a clause that they have gotten a commercial tower provider to
> include in their contract, for the purposes of frequency protection?
>
>
>
> Something that would identify the unlicensed frequencies that you intend
> to use, and that you no other new leasee would be allowed to successfully
> apply with those frequencies.
>
>
>
> We have done this with Crown previously, and I am currently fighting the
> issue with a smaller, regional tower group.   I would like to have some
> references of WISPs who also have these protections.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Speaking of banks and banking

[Chris Fabien]

We recently Issued a check to one vendor but it got accidentally mailed to
a different vendor. They endorsed it and deposited it. Bank honored it no
problem... I don't think anyone or any system is verifying anything on
checks.

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> At most they check to see if something is scrawled on the signature line.
>
> -Original Message- From: Keefe John
> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2017 8:31 PM
>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Speaking of banks and banking
>
> I dont think banks check signatures period.
>
>
> On 3/18/2017 6:38 AM, Paul Stewart wrote:
>
>> It became such and issue for me with another company i was involved with
>> that we ended up using a service that (conveniently or ironically) the bank
>> offers to protect against this kind of stuff.  The name varies bank to bank
>> but basically when you do check runs, you upload that information to the
>> bank and only those checks will be honoured and within a certain
>> timeframe.it was quite expensive but having to deal with fraud issues
>> all the time is too …
>>
>>
>> On Mar 17, 2017, at 11:31 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> Also, I found out if you have a double signature requirement on checks
>>> and someone sends one through with only one signature, the bank does not
>>> give a crap.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Rory Conaway
>>> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 2:26 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Speaking of banks and banking
>>>
>>> I believe you have about 60 days maximum to file claims.  After that you
>>> are basically screwed with the way the laws are written.  I tell you this
>>> from experience.
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 1:02 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Speaking of banks and banking
>>>
>>> Yeah, the one guy that signed his own name to one of the checks signed
>>> it with a decent enough signature that the graphologists can match it up to
>>> many other examples of his signature that are available in public records.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Adam Moffett
>>> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 2:00 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Speaking of banks and banking
>>>
>>> Yeah, I'm guessing if they wrote checks to themselves then you know
>>> exactly who to make a claim against.  I'm sure Chuck has weighed the
>>> options though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Surely that's some kind of crime with a statute of limitations of more
 than
 60 days.

 ~Seth

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PMP320 AP Stations continually reconnecting

[Chris Fabien]

I think I got it sorted out, somehow some of the service flows disappeared
from the AP, we are using Internal AAA and the default flow was set to a
number that didn't exist. Not sure why that happened but I added them back
and it's working for now.


On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Louis Arsenault <lo...@ntinet.com> wrote:

> I have had something similar to this years ago. I remember looking at the
> event logs of the SM to help resolve the issue.
>
> -Louis
>
> On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> We had storms and power outage few days ago. I have a PMP320 AP acting
>> strange. It appears like all of the stations are continually connecting and
>> disconnecting very rapidly. On the main screen the "Registered CPE Count"
>> is constantly changing. The stations that connect show up in the Radio Info
>> and Connected CPE list, but no downlink signal is shown (see attachment).
>> Nothing shows up under service flows or MCS pages.
>>
>> I have tried changing channel, setting it to free run temporarily, no
>> change.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -Louis
>
> NTInet
> O: 803-533-1660 X 207 <(803)%20533-1660>
> C: 803-997-0004 <(803)%20997-0004>
>

Re: [AFMUG] PMP320 AP Stations continually reconnecting

[Chris Fabien]

Thanks Colin i will give that a try.

On Mar 12, 2017 1:07 AM, "Colin Stanners" <cstann...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Have you tried noting all settings, doing a restore to factory defaults,
> and reconfiguring it?
>
> On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> We had storms and power outage few days ago. I have a PMP320 AP acting
>> strange. It appears like all of the stations are continually connecting and
>> disconnecting very rapidly. On the main screen the "Registered CPE Count"
>> is constantly changing. The stations that connect show up in the Radio Info
>> and Connected CPE list, but no downlink signal is shown (see attachment).
>> Nothing shows up under service flows or MCS pages.
>>
>> I have tried changing channel, setting it to free run temporarily, no
>> change.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>>
>

[AFMUG] PMP320 AP Stations continually reconnecting

[Chris Fabien]

We had storms and power outage few days ago. I have a PMP320 AP acting
strange. It appears like all of the stations are continually connecting and
disconnecting very rapidly. On the main screen the "Registered CPE Count"
is constantly changing. The stations that connect show up in the Radio Info
and Connected CPE list, but no downlink signal is shown (see attachment).
Nothing shows up under service flows or MCS pages.

I have tried changing channel, setting it to free run temporarily, no
change.

Any ideas?

Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON

[Chris Fabien]

Gerard,
Looking at Baltic's website they seem to sell several software licenses for
this ZTE GPON equipment. Like $50 per PON Port license, $5.50 per ONT, etc.
Also $2100 for some server software. Are these required? Are you buying
them on AliBaba? Or does it somehow work without the licenscing/server
software?

Thanks
Chris


On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Gerard Dupont III 
wrote:

> That's the chassis. Then add the GTGH 16 port line card or the GTGO 8 port
> card.
>
> We use the Huawei ETP4830-A1 power supply and a string of telco batteries
> or you can replace one of the SMXA supervisor/uplink cards with a PRAM and
> do AC directly inside the C320.
>
> There are slight differences between these parts. For example, the SMXA
> uplink card has different subcards. One is 10G and other is just 1G. Card
> SMXA subcard UCDC/3 is what you want for 10G. Same for the ETP4830-A1, one
> of the subcards has ethernet and the other 2 models only have RS232/RS485.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> Is something like this a smaller version of what you're using?
>>
>> https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-ZTE-
>> OLT-ZXA10-Mini-Device_60221381720.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.zODsrR=p
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, so my keyboard makes me look drunk Gerard says...
>>>
>>> I've got 4 chassis's no problem, all with Class C optics.  LOL!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>>>
 I've to 4 chassis so far and never a problem.  Not buying Alphion, ZTE.

 Regards,
 Chuck

 On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 6:12 PM, Paul Stewart 
 wrote:

> Interesting …. do they work ok?
>
> I came from Calix and Adtran world for GPON/ONT stuff … considerably
> more than that.  I did look at some DWDM stuff from China and it was total
> junk in my opinion - some people like it .. not my thing.
>
>
> On Mar 6, 2017, at 2:48 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:
>
> I'm importing direct from China.  16Port OLT with Class Optics and
> Power Supply for $3200.  ONT's for $25.  PLC's from $2-10 depending on the
> split.  Check Alibaba.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, George Skorup <
> george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>
>> Yup. My plan is to start 32:1 and knock it down to 16:1 and throw in
>> another OLT if needed.
>>
>> On 3/6/2017 12:01 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> Google did 32x1. Common at the time of their initial deployment was
>> 64x1. The company I just got off the ground did 16x1.
>>
>> On Mar 6, 2017 11:47 AM, "Sterling Jacobson" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> AE gets to be a headache with power costs and heat control in
>>> cabinets.
>>>
>>>
>>> Low oversub GPON is plenty good for now and probably well into the
>>> future.
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe that is what Google did, maybe 8:1 max split?
>>>
>>>
>>> The temptation with GPON is to stretch it to the limits, which might
>>> cause some re-splicing down the road if you want super high FDX.
>>>
>>>
>>> AE doesn’t have that problem even with equipment a decade old I can
>>> still supply the same SFP+ switch with 180Gbps each if I want to carry 
>>> that
>>> much on the backhaul. Equipment is super cheap, and it’s essentially
>>> backwards compatible with GPON if your neighborhood runs are short like
>>> mine. But again, lots of power is required.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 5, 2017 8:08 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>>
>>>
>>> Calix has NG PON2 which does 10 Gbps per wavelength and multiple
>>> wavelengths all overlaid on GPON so nothing in the OSP has to change.  
>>> All
>>> the splitters etc still work.  That will give everyone on the PON 312.5
>>> Mbps symmetrical all at the same time.  So oversubscribing 3:1 you could
>>> sell 1G symmetrical to everyone and probably not run out of headroom.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Carlos Alcantar
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 05, 2017 3:35 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Small-scale GPON
>>>
>>>
>>> to add to this post with the new PON technologies being released
>>> this year giving everyone 1G FDX is going to be a non issue.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Carlos Alcantar
>>>
>>> Race Communications / Race Team Member
>>>
>>> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
>>>
>>> Phone: +1 415 376 3314 <%28415%29%20376-3314> / car...@race.com /
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] EPMP1000 Heater POE Polarity

[Chris Fabien]

We've seen issues with epmp running on RB750up because the heater trips the
overcurrent limit... we had to change several towers this winter to
alternate power supplies.

On Feb 10, 2017 5:31 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> Powered up just fine for us with a 750p yesterday.  Two of them.  It was
> like 15*?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Where are you testing?  It's like 40 degrees outside.  I assume you are
>> testing in a freezer?
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 3:47 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] EPMP1000 Heater POE Polarity
>>
>> I would like some confirmation, because I think that I'm repeating the
>> test now and coming up with different results.  Like the heater isn't
>> kicking on with either polarity now.
>>
>> On 2/10/2017 3:39 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> > You'd think after Trango's miserable experience with preheaters in
>> their 5830 series radios, no one would do that ever again.
>> >
>> > I know I didn't answer your question, but it sounds like you've already
>> answered it and are just looking for confirmation.
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>> > Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 3:13 PM
>> > To: Animal Farm 
>> > Subject: [AFMUG] EPMP1000 Heater POE Polarity
>> >
>> > I've been running some tests with Cold startup of EPMP1000 w/ sync
>> > Radios.  Does the Internal heater only function with 4/5-  7/8+?  A
>> > cold radio (18F) radio will power on but seems stuck in a reboot loop
>> > with 4/5+  7/8-  The same radio powered on and booted within 2 minutes
>> > or so with 4/5- 7/8+
>> >
>> > Power draw with 4/5+ 7/8- was around 4w, and would randomly spike to
>> around 15w The power light would stay on, but sync and ethernet lights
>> would go on and off, like it was continually rebooting.
>> >
>> > Power draw with 4/5- 7/8+ was a solid 15w for about 2 minutes with only
>> the power light on, then 4w once booted.
>> >
>> > I just presumed that since it would power on with both polarities, the
>> heater would work with both polarities as well.  It's looking like that
>> might not be the case.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tight buffered drop cable

[Chris Fabien]

https://www.gomultilink.com/products/rni-3620

We use these, happy with em.

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 6:12 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, I've probably looked at 30 different NID boxes in the past hour.
> It's hard to tell from pictures how big of a PITA something will be.
> Anybody have a favorite?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "David Kunat" <m...@davidkunat.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/3/2017 5:40:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tight buffered drop cable
>
> What are you using for your nid/slack storage?
>
> On Feb 3, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
> We put it in a $15 nid box makes a much cleaner install and space to store
> slack cable.
>
> On Feb 3, 2017 5:17 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For FTTH, Mikrotik makes a $39 outdoor media converter.
>>
>> If I use a drop cable with a tight buffered fiber inside, I could put an
>> SOC right on it and plug it directly into the media converter.  No
>> interconnect box, no splice tray.
>>
>> Is this idea retarded?
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Tight buffered drop cable

[Chris Fabien]

We put it in a $15 nid box makes a much cleaner install and space to store
slack cable.

On Feb 3, 2017 5:17 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> For FTTH, Mikrotik makes a $39 outdoor media converter.
>
> If I use a drop cable with a tight buffered fiber inside, I could put an
> SOC right on it and plug it directly into the media converter.  No
> interconnect box, no splice tray.
>
> Is this idea retarded?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] "Do I have to be home?"

[Chris Fabien]

I Agree its a silly question for a new service installation. We do
occasionally schedule service calls without a customer being home if we are
fairly certian it is an outside issue (antenna realign or swap radio etc).

What bothers me is the customers who schedule something where we tell them
they need to be home, and tech shows up and there's an 11 and 13 year old
kid there alone. Our policy is always need to have someone 18+ and for a
new install, the person ordering service has to be there.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> Actually, I think that a significant number of our subscribers akin our
> service to "satellite", as that's the term they use to refer to the thing
> on their roof.
>
> On your second point, I completely agree.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 1/17/2017 7:12 AM, Brian Webster wrote:
>
>> Remember your service is wireless. The average consumer thinks that is
>> something like cellular in their mind, to them it would be like you just
>> shipping them a hotspot and it just works like cellular companies do.
>>
>> WISP infrastructure is still not completely understood as compared to
>> cable or DSL  even for many who have the service.  I know a lot of people
>> in telecommunications that don't understand WISP technology deployments.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Slightly, Cost of Living

[Chris Fabien]

Personally, I am afraid to add up what I spend on all our various insurance
policies, business stuff and personal, because I am sure I'd have a heart
attack... I think it's a large part of the strain.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> I'm guessing this information is like a lot of you out there.
>
> Except maybe my earnings because I am making about double median gross
> salary for my city.
>
> I'm not saying I work double, but I do fulfill many roles as the only
> salary employee of my startup ISP.
> I don't think I can replace myself for the same cost to the company, so I
> feel ok with that.
>
> I don't live extravagantly, but I do live comfortably.
>
> I have a 3100 sqr foot rambler I've lived in since 2001 with a house
> payment of around $1500 a month.
>
> But my biggest expense is health/insurance and medical.
>
> I now pay about $2100 a month for my family health insurance through IHC.
> I just signed up for a good Dental Gold plan at $100 a month for my
> family, but since it's not company I have to wait 6-12 months for a lot of
> the benefits :(
> The insurance deductibles are I think around $6000 a year and I have
> medications that eat up most of that.
>
> I just upped my life and disability insurance on myself and my wife to
> make sure things don't go bad if I die, that's around $550 a month.
>
> I think I spend about $1000 a month on eating, groceries and movies/date
> nights, at least that's what I came up to in December so that might be a
> bit off.
>
> I've got real estate I'm still trying to sell, but it's not the panica
> everyone says it is, lol!
>
> I just feel like finances don't go as far as they used to a few years ago.
>
> I'm not sparking a political debate, just wanted to see if everyone see
> things in a similar light?
>
> Or am I just doing the wrong things?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Redzone launches 5G-branded service in Maine | FierceWireless

[Chris Fabien]

I've thought about "5G+" for our next round of network upgrades!

Seriously though we got a lot of value out of using the 5G term when we
overlaid the network with 5ghz ptmp equipment. Some peolple were so
impressed that we were ahead of Verizon who had just rolled out 4G in our
area.

On Jan 12, 2017 10:54 PM, "Jaime Solorza" <losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

> But you didn't put an x That's marketing
>
> On Jan 12, 2017 8:50 PM, "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> We've been selling "5G" for about 3 years!
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2017 7:16 PM, "Jaime Solorza" <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/redzone-launches-5g-b
>>> randed-service-maine?utm_medium=nl_source=internal
>>> =27472010_tok=eyJpIjoiTkdNNVl6QTJPVEpsTWpsbCIsInQiOiI3NE
>>> trM1c3WGdQQVZqODZzT1hwYlhHVitDdFBDR2diRWhnOGNXQk01ZjRGOXg1bj
>>> QxMUZqMFhmU2lFclpcL2xXSWRzbUhjTWJndUNTQzRNS29mZ2ptTUVYbU1MWG
>>> dxV0dHQ2lHc0o5MVNqUDNvVU5ZRVVUdkk2TGliVUhjSGdPZTcifQ%3D%3D
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Redzone launches 5G-branded service in Maine | FierceWireless

[Chris Fabien]

We've been selling "5G" for about 3 years!

On Jan 12, 2017 7:16 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/redzone-launches-5g-
> branded-service-maine?utm_medium=nl_source=internal&
> mrkid=27472010_tok=eyJpIjoiTkdNNVl6QTJPVEpsTWpsbC
> IsInQiOiI3NEtrM1c3WGdQQVZqODZzT1hwYlhHVitDdFBDR2diRWhnOGNXQk
> 01ZjRGOXg1bjQxMUZqMFhmU2lFclpcL2xXSWRzbUhjTWJndUNTQzRNS29mZ2
> ptTUVYbU1MWGdxV0dHQ2lHc0o5MVNqUDNvVU5ZRVVUdkk2TGliVUhjSGdPZTcifQ%3D%3D
>

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Chris Fabien]

Go talk to the counter guys at the local grain elevator, feed store,
fertilizer dealer, tractor dealer, etc. You'll probably find someone who
can give you the owners cell phone number pretty quick and then you can
call and drop their name "Hey bill, I got your number from Joe down at the
fertilizer plant"

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our
> footprint prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately
> owned grain legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little
> interest in tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual
> affirmation of viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be
> there and sign our exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and
> authorizing access for full site inspections.
>
> The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there
> wont be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic.
> Plat maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue,
> postal contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected
> telephone contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.
> I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of
> that sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact
> and low in probability for being perceived as a nuisance.
>
> Any sage advice?
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] i am vetting windstream....

[Chris Fabien]

We just signed a contract with them. Their billing and sales practices are
a bit shady. Hit me offline for more info. But their pricing was too good
to turn down.

On Jan 6, 2017 1:21 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
wrote:

>
> I am wanting to know if they're reliable, if they deliver what they quote
> (unlike some other companies) and horror stories
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Friday, January 6, 2017 12:16 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] i am vetting windstream
>
> What are you asking for exactly?  Give them your address and how much
> bandwidth you want (1g or 10g) and get a price.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 1:00 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Fitzpatrick, George
>> *To:* jayful...@cyberbroadband.net
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 6, 2017 8:32 AM
>> *Subject:* RE: Windstream Wholesale Wave Pricing Promotion
>>
>> Good Morning Jay,
>>
>>
>>
>> Was hoping to speak to see if we could lower some of your network costs
>> or provide some network diversity.
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: cid:image001.png@01D23119.CD5FD980]
>>
>> [image: cid:image002.png@01D23119.CD5FD980]
>>
>> Windstream Wholesale is expanding our fiber network across the country,
>> providing Ethernet, IP Transit, DIA, MPLS, *Dark Fiber*, Wave and
>> 10/40/100 GE services.
>>
>> We are the 6th largest fiber provider in the country, Fortune 500, with
>> about $6 billion in revenue.
>>
>> Windstream has over 8,000 corporate locations on-net, over 5,000 wireless
>> towers on-net, 1200 service ready 10GE POP locations, 400 service ready
>> 100GE POP locations nationwide
>>
>>
>>
>> Please direct me to the appropriate people who would find this relevant
>> or please let me know when we can have a quick overview call, thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> *G**eorge** F**itzpatrick   **::*  windstream wholesale *  ::*  content
>> , media, gaming & cloud providers
>> Account Director igeorge.fitzpatr...@windstream.com I 917-444-5933
>> <(917)%20444-5933>(m)
>>
>> | more info | interactive network map
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* James Howard 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 6, 2017 11:46 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] i am vetting windstream
>>
>> Sure!  What was their pricing for the 10G Wave?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *CBB - Jay Fuller
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 06, 2017 11:43 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] i am vetting windstream
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone want to Comment on Windstream? :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>
>>
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>> To: 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] i am vetting windstream
>> Date: Fri, Jan 6, 2017 11:25 AM
>>
>>
>>
>> It was a bit warmer when I did it in Illinois.  Perhaps –20 and the
>> droplets did make a shattering sound when they hit the ground.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 6, 2017 10:22 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] i am vetting windstream
>>
>>
>>
>> Colder.
>>
>> At about -45 to -50 It will freeze before it hits the ground
>>
>> At about -70 to -75 it will freeze shortly after hitting the air,
>> sometimes explode in the air.
>>
>> I tried this when I experienced -55 when I lived in Minnesota. You could
>> spit, and the spittle would make a tinkling sound as the frozen bits hit
>> the ground.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/6/2017 8:38 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> My wife was asking if it was cold enough to throw a pan of hot water in
>> the air and have it freeze before hitting the ground.� We have an
>> employee from Texas that has never seen this.� I told her I thought it
>> needed to be �15 or colder for that to happen.� It has been a long time
>> since I have done it.�
>>
>> �
>>
>> *From:* Travis Johnson
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 6, 2017 9:32 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] i am vetting windstream
>>
>> �
>>
>> -12F at my house this morning. School has been canceled here the last two
>> days.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 1/6/2017 9:22 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> -7 at my house this morning.� Snappy!
>>
>> �
>>
>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 6, 2017 9:16 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org
>>
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] i am vetting windstream
>>
>> �
>>
>> �
>>
>> Good morning everyone.
>>
>> �
>>
>> I'm looking at upstream providers as the contract with my current (not so
>> happy) provider is nearly up.� I got an unsolicited quote from windstream
>> this morning that looked pretty good for 

Re: [AFMUG] Chain or strap mount pole steps

[Chris Fabien]

My idea for steps is similar to Chuck's 800-M-POL-10 HD Pole Mount. To
clarify i would build many of these and mount them to the pole as steps
either while doing the work or maybe leave them on for suration of the
lease. The idea is not to move the steps up while climbing.

I do like the rubber strap method in that video. Will look into that as
well.

On Dec 22, 2016 10:27 AM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Bosun’s chair and a cable and pulley system I guess could be used but I
> would still want some kind of backup like a wheeled mechanism you can
> fasten around the pole that will travel up with you and serve as a fall
> arrest.
>
> The rope half hitch monkey stuff may be fine for someone well versed.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 22, 2016 8:23 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Chain or strap mount pole steps
>
> https://youtu.be/ncn4Xe6Ibis
>
> On Dec 22, 2016 9:22 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> they probably have a rubber grip variant of pole belts and those boot
>> spikes for climbing metal poles, I doubt much of anything thats not a
>> structural component would pass the OSHA sniff test. And your fuel economy
>> in your work trucks would be awful if you had staff with such heavy brass
>> balls that would climb with it
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 9:16 AM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We are discussing putting antennas on a stadium light pole. It is a 90ft
>>> steel monopole with no climbing provisions just smooth sides. They service
>>> the lights by contracting to a lighting company with a huge lift of some
>>> sort.
>>>
>>> For our use I'd really like to find a way to make it climbable to allow
>>> access on short notice if necessary.
>>>
>>> I have a plan in my head for a fabricated steel pole step with a chain
>>> wrap mount. But i wonder if there is already a product available or any
>>> other ideas how to get up there?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Chris Fabien
>>> LakeNet LLC
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>

[AFMUG] Chain or strap mount pole steps

[Chris Fabien]

We are discussing putting antennas on a stadium light pole. It is a 90ft
steel monopole with no climbing provisions just smooth sides. They service
the lights by contracting to a lighting company with a huge lift of some
sort.

For our use I'd really like to find a way to make it climbable to allow
access on short notice if necessary.

I have a plan in my head for a fabricated steel pole step with a chain wrap
mount. But i wonder if there is already a product available or any other
ideas how to get up there?

Thanks
Chris Fabien
LakeNet LLC

Re: [AFMUG] Dual Band Wifi Routers

[Chris Fabien]

If the SSID is the same, the device will choose which AP to associate, just
like if two 2.4 APs have same SSID. The logic on how to choose the AP and
when to switch to another is device dependant and not always implemented
well.

We set the SSID different and educate the customer to usually prefer the 5G
if the device can see it. It gets too confusing and hard to troubleshoot
when they are same SSID and the customer can't easily tell which band the
device has chosen.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Matt  wrote:

> If you have a wifi router that supports 5ghz and 2.4ghz bands and you
> set the essid the same on both will devices(iphones,ipads,roku,game
> consoles,etc) choose the band with the best connection?
>

Re: [AFMUG] generator fuel

[Chris Fabien]

Around here the natural gas street mains and services are around 40psi
according to the gas company guys who just redid the service to my house
and shop. The meter drops it to about 0.5 psi for the appliances.

It sounds like maybe not all areas do it that way. Although i don't
understand what height would have to do with it in Lewis's story. It's
lighter than air I wouldn't think height would matter like with water.



On Dec 3, 2016 7:23 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Many times it is in water column inches.  I used to know the normal
amount.  4 inches I think and Propane is 12?  Something like that.  Very
low pressures.
For high flow you use two regulators.  On LP the first takes tank pressure
down to 9 psi and then the one at the generator takes it down to 12
inches.

*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, December 03, 2016 2:24 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] generator fuel


I tried to put an NG gen set on top of a building and the has company said
they didn't have enough pressure
I think I needed a few pounds and they only had 6 ounces.

On Sat, Dec 3, 2016, 10:04 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Just cruising the used generators on Ebay.  They seem to be a pretty good
> value.  Found several with 250-400 hours in that price range.
> Wondering which brand has the best reputation of longevity.
>
> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 03, 2016 7:18 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] generator fuel
> FWIW I purchased  a new CAT 125KW diesel genset with a 420 gallon base
> tank and transfer switch for ~33k last year.   I think 10k might be a
> little low, but not too far off.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Dec 2, 2016, at 9:39 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>
> It is more than a half mile away.  Primary build.  Not sure they would
> even do it as that is at the end of a crappy line feeding a center pivot
> irrigation pump and system.  Up where I need it everything is underground.
>
> Right now I am paying about $2K/month at a different site for a similar
> load.  They really screw you on the demand charge.
> I figure I can get a decent $100K NG 3ph generator for $10K.
>
>
> *From:* George Skorup
> *Sent:* Friday, December 02, 2016 7:29 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] generator fuel
>
> OK, but what would be the cost to have your power co bring 3phase to you?
> More or less than a 3-phase generator? Or can they simply not do it?
>
> On the other hand, what would it then cost you for 3-phase service from
> said power co? I know of a couple grain handling sites around here pay
> about $1200/mo. But that's cheaper over the long haul than buying,
> maintaining and paying fuel cost for a 100kW genset, even NG.
>
> On 12/2/2016 8:18 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Not bad considering my NG is going to cost half or less than diesel.  And
> it will be periodic use, not constant.
> I need to make a boatload of 3 phase 480 where only single phase exists an
> the loads will be highly variable.
> I could use a big ass rotary phase converter but based on the cost of fuel
> alone, I will save money just running the generator when needed.
> Especially true if they charge me a demand charge.
>
>
> *From:* Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Friday, December 02, 2016 7:11 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] generator fuel
>
> Looking at it another way, I have calculated previously that the cost per
> kWh for 24x7 power from a diesel generator is in the range of $0.35 to
> $0.49 per kWh. That's including the purchase cost of the generator,
> maintenance, expected lifespan, cost of fuel, etc.
>
> If you want to see prime power examples of diesel used for islanded grid
> power, each town in Nunavut has its own set of diesel generators and tanks.
> There is no long distance transmission setup or inter-city grid.
>
> http://www.qec.nu.ca/home/
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 5:57 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> I agree, but my application is primary power, not emergency.
>
>
> *From:* Eric Kuhnke
> *Sent:* Friday, December 02, 2016 6:53 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] generator fuel
>
> I don't think it's fair to directly compare diesel fuel to natural gas,
> because one is portable in just about any container (in a real emergency),
> the other is not.
>
> http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/10/31/peer-1-
> mobilizes-diesel-bucket-brigade-at-75-broad/
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> I am assuming a BTU of fuel will make so many Wh of energy.
>
> If perfectly efficient 1M BTU =292.3 kWh
>
> That would cost me *$35* from the power utility.
>
>
> A gallon of diesel is abou $3.25 around here.  139000 btu.
> Diesel then is about $23 per 1M btu.
>
> However diesel engines are only 30% efficient so it will cost me *$76* in
> fuel to make that 292.3 kWh
>
>
> If that assumption is approximately correct:
> I pay about $7.80 per decatherm in the winter for NG.  A 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Chris Fabien]

If you have gophers and duct prevents that I suppose that's worth the cost.

We do not have gophers in Michigan. We put everything direct buried in
rural areas. In some cases we may plow in 12ct cable down a mile of road
with only a few obstacles that need to be bored. That's about $1000 of
cable. A mile of innerduct is about $2000 in material and is a big product
to plow if you're plowing, or has to be drilled in (more expensive).

In town we run duct, mainly because there are enough obstacles that we have
to drill it all anyway. There are certainly benefits to duct, but it adds a
lot of cost when you're looking at a rural area with maybe 10 houses per
mile. Just my opinion, worth what you paid for it!

Chris Fabien
LakeNet LLC


On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> I would never do direct again.  Gopher damage.  Doesn’t happen with duct.
> Plus with duct you can cut and pull out and go over and under anytime you
> want.  Saves in splicing and figure 8 ing etc.
> Duct is worth the extra expense.  And it is not really that expensive.
>
> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2016 6:14 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>
> Duct or direct plow makes a difference.   Direct is cheaper but damage is
> much harder, takes longer to repair, and increases your maintenance cost
> over time.  With direct bury you have no ability to pull slack or add new
> handholes for access.  In the event of a fiber cut without duct the repair
> usually involves exposing 100’ of cable on either side of the damage and
> splicing in a new section of cable which will require double the number of
> splices and splice cases versus duct where you can pull spare cable in.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> All ROW are already in place.  Few road crossings in rural areas but in
> cities close to standard numbers of road crossings.
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 6:53 AM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to construction
>> both before and after.
>>
>> Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like planning,
>> permits and the like. This is one reason costs are all over the map,
>> because it depends on how many miles you can spread fixed prebuild costs.
>>
>> Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after you
>> finish construction. Various reporting requirements and paperwork, locates,
>> repairs, maintenance, etc. Even when you have a brand new plant you have to
>> budget for OPEX.
>>
>> Jared
>>
>>
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
>> > From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>> >
>> > All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural direct
>> plowed in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is about as
>> low as I have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban, rail
>> crossings, pipeline crossings will all add to that number.
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost for
>> backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Windstream / Earthlink Merging

[Chris Fabien]

Mike can you expand on windstream getting rid of their fiber? Im asking
because we are considering renewing a circuit with them.

On Nov 7, 2016 4:49 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> http://www.telecomramblings.com/2016/11/windstream-earthlink-combine/
>
>
> Earthlink owns a bunch of glass in the ground (well, and some IRUs), but
> Windstream just got rid of all of theirs. Hrm.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Keefe John" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, November 7, 2016 12:54:30 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Windstream / Earthlink Merging
>
> Another big merger...
>
> http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSASC09GKI
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] URGENT - ssh reboot ePMP radio

[Chris Fabien]

Yes there is an snmp reboot method... i have had to do that before. I cant
recall the command off the top of my head but definately possible.

On Oct 21, 2016 1:00 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> is there an snmp reboot option you can try?
>
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> RB750p and Powerbox are the same board but different plastic housings.
>> Assuming your AP is the GPS hardware, you don't need to change any pinout.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 12:39 PM, SmarterBroadband <
>> li...@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Just one to one.  I should see what small Mikrotik has POE out we could
>>> use.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2016 9:36 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] URGENT - ssh reboot ePMP radio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So a repeater at the house for a handful of customers nearby?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FFR any of those kind of sites we always do power to our box and then
>>> put POEs/such outside.  I think the next one we might go with Powerbox or
>>> Netonix, but in the past it's been simply POEs and rb750.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 12:32 PM, SmarterBroadband <
>>> li...@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> No one at home at the AP end.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2016 9:31 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] URGENT - ssh reboot ePMP radio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can you have the customer simply power cycle it?  Assuming it comes
>>> back, be sure to update.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 12:29 PM, SmarterBroadband <
>>> li...@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Cannot access web page.  This is a link from one house to another.  Just
>>> wanted to try a reboot before sending a tech.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2016 9:27 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] URGENT - ssh reboot ePMP radio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Assuming that's the initial shell when you log in, looks busted.  Can
>>> you not access the web interface?  What are you trying to accomplish with
>>> this reboot?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 12:24 PM, SmarterBroadband <
>>> li...@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have logged into a ePMP radio via ssh to try to reboot it.  When I
>>> type the reboot command I get;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> AP-miketoshawn>reboot
>>>
>>> i: Bad object type: 1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Tips for pulling through existing innerduct

[Chris Fabien]

How long is the run? Is this a 3mm indoor fiber or something tougher
deaigned for outdoor use? I would be nervous about damaging an indoor fiber
trying to pull another past it.

On Oct 7, 2016 6:35 PM, "TJ Trout"  wrote:

> I have a 1-1/4 innerduct with one of my upstream carriers small 3mm fiber
> in it and I would like to pull a single cat5 through as well to reach a
> customer what tips do you guys have to avoid damaging the existing cable ?
>
> I don't have a mule tape installed so I will have to run a fish tape
> through and pull the line or a tape back through. I have several sweeps so
> I was planning to use some Klein canned foam lube into the duct ...
>

Re: [AFMUG] oversubscription again

[Chris Fabien]

For upstream circuits, we dont upgrade based on a ratio of mbps sold. We
upgrade based on utilizaton. we never want to hit over 80%.

On Oct 2, 2016 12:38 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> so, we hit a wall this week with lopsided providers. we hit an approximate
> 20:1 and choked. with some policy routing we took it to about a 14:1 ratio
> and got things buffered. this is upstream, i still am comfortable with
> 12-15:1 on the ap/cpe side.
>
> At what ratio do you decide to buy more provider bandwidth? rule of thumb,
> because we are all different. With our size, we could probably still afford
> a 1:1 on the upstream, but we would be wasting a shit ton of cash.
>
> Powercode sucks ass for reporting, so its a manual process to see what
> your ratio is, even though they could pop out report very easily, and I
> assume query guys already are because Powercode makes it too hard.
>
>
> I am concerned with my personal accountability on this however. Im
> normally pretty anal about monitoring for points of failure, and I
> completely dropped the ball on this, relegating some customer complaints to
> the "quit whining you little bitch" bin, assuming it wa a customer end
> issue when I should have realized we had sold too much and put it out the
> small pipe. Any advice (aside from maintaining a 1:1) for metrics to
> monitor that indicate you oversubscribe?
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] How long of a pull can I do?

[Chris Fabien]

I think you would have better than 50/50 odds of success. Pulling swivel
would be a good idea. Make a poor man's break away by using 1200 pound mule
tape and cut about halfway through it. We use that trick whatever we have
to pull with a truck.

Re: [AFMUG] Wooden pole twisting

[Chris Fabien]

May not be a viable solution with an 11 ghz backhaul, but you could install
two radios, once that is on target in summer and one in winter, and switch
between them without climbing at least.

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Robert  wrote:

> When you look at the high voltage distribution lines with twin poles they
> through bolt hanger connectors on the poles and then hang the cross braces
> across the hangers.   Poles twisting then doesn't do anything but put
> tension or compression on the cross bracing...  Unless the poles actually
> start to lean, the cross bracing stays pretty much immobile..   But putting
> two poles up pretty much brings it to the price of a tower.
>
> On 9/13/16 7:54 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
>> I imagine the pole would win that tug of war over time.
>>
>> Looking at a photo of this pole, it has a noticeable curvature near the
>> top.  Maybe we'll move the dish below the curve and see if that helps.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Jay Weekley" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 9/13/2016 10:44:11 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wooden pole twisting
>>
>> For us they are and haven't hand problems with twisting.  We've got one
>>> with a link that's been steady for 6 years or more.  The problem is
>>> accessing the link on short notice since we don't know a bucket truck and
>>> operators are very busy.  It seems like you could put two wood posts on
>>> either side of the pole and secure a 4x4 with large lag screws to keep it
>>> from twisting.
>>>
>>> Matt wrote:
>>>
 I wonder if painting would help keep moisture out?  Maybe its a
 temperature thing too?

 I always thought wood poles would be great for CPE locations but now
 maybe not.


 On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 3:44 AM, Adam Moffett 
 wrote:

> I've got a 70' (61' AGL) class 3 pole with an AP and backhaul on it.
> It's
> been in the ground about 3 years now.
>
> This past spring we noticed the signal drop slowly on the backhaul
> over the
> course of a month.  A climber went up and adjusted it by about 9
> degrees,
> but he said the mount was tight when he got there.  This past month
> the RSSI
> on the backhaul has been slowly dropping again.
>
> The humidity here tends to shoot way up in the summer and drop in the
> winter.  I'm supposing this beast must be twisting as it soaks up
> moisture
> and then dries out again.
>
> Is this a problem that might diminish as the pole ages, or is there
> perhaps
> any possible remediation?  I guess the permanent fix is a real tower
> or a
> steel pole, but I guess I'm hoping that one of you old phone guys
> knows some
> magic trick.  Seems like if there was a wire attached to this pole,
> that a 9
> degree twist would put some wicked tension on it.
>
>
>

>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP2000 vs. Mimosa A5 deployments

[Chris Fabien]

Can the C5 connect to B5 in ptmp mode?

On Aug 15, 2016 12:00 AM, "Jaime Fink" <ja...@mimosa.co> wrote:

> Yes, 2 channels are supported with B5 or B5c clients, B5-Lite clients are
> also supported at a single channel and are compatible with B5/B5c.
>
> You can intermix single and dual channel clients as well if necessary.
>
> Jaime
>
> On Aug 14, 2016, at 7:11 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
> Jaime, what are the options for station radios on B5 multipoint? Can this
> mode support 2 channels like the B5 PTP?
>
> On Aug 14, 2016 10:03 PM, "Jaime Fink" <ja...@mimosa.co> wrote:
>
>> Yes, we're starting testing it now on the A5 so we're roughly 2-3 months
>> to release.
>>
>> B5 multipoint GPS sync should be out in 3 weeks.
>>
>> Jaime
>>
>> On Aug 14, 2016, at 6:52 PM, Paul McCall <pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote:
>>
>> I thought GPS was like “tomorrow” from Mimosa?  No?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 14, 2016 4:36 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP2000 vs. Mimosa A5 deployments
>>
>>
>>
>> I wish either one was one step further so the decision was easier. ePMP
>> 2000 has receive beamforming and sectors and GPS, but is still N based.
>> Currently Mimosa is AC, but doesn't (yet) have GPS nor any sort of
>> beamforming. They will, just not now.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Paul McCall" <pa...@pdmnet.net>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Sunday, August 14, 2016 1:19:21 PM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] ePMP2000 vs. Mimosa A5  deployments
>>
>> New towers which would you choose?
>>
>> (assuming inventory is in stock)
>>
>> We have a couple new towers... each connected with lots of BW and we have
>> to compete with the cable company somewhat
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP2000 vs. Mimosa A5 deployments

[Chris Fabien]

Jaime, what are the options for station radios on B5 multipoint? Can this
mode support 2 channels like the B5 PTP?

On Aug 14, 2016 10:03 PM, "Jaime Fink"  wrote:

> Yes, we're starting testing it now on the A5 so we're roughly 2-3 months
> to release.
>
> B5 multipoint GPS sync should be out in 3 weeks.
>
> Jaime
>
> On Aug 14, 2016, at 6:52 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>
> I thought GPS was like “tomorrow” from Mimosa?  No?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 14, 2016 4:36 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ePMP2000 vs. Mimosa A5 deployments
>
>
>
> I wish either one was one step further so the decision was easier. ePMP
> 2000 has receive beamforming and sectors and GPS, but is still N based.
> Currently Mimosa is AC, but doesn't (yet) have GPS nor any sort of
> beamforming. They will, just not now.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Paul McCall" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, August 14, 2016 1:19:21 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] ePMP2000 vs. Mimosa A5  deployments
>
> New towers which would you choose?
>
> (assuming inventory is in stock)
>
> We have a couple new towers... each connected with lots of BW and we have
> to compete with the cable company somewhat
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP2000 vs. Mimosa A5 deployments

[Chris Fabien]

Seems like part of the question is what signals you are expecting, or to
put it another way, what's the typical install distance. The AC products
aren't going to give you much benefit if you are planning for installs in
the -60s like a "traditional" tower based deployment.

On Aug 14, 2016 4:36 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> I wish either one was one step further so the decision was easier. ePMP
> 2000 has receive beamforming and sectors and GPS, but is still N based.
> Currently Mimosa is AC, but doesn't (yet) have GPS nor any sort of
> beamforming. They will, just not now.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Paul McCall" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, August 14, 2016 1:19:21 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] ePMP2000 vs. Mimosa A5  deployments
>
> New towers which would you choose?
>
> (assuming inventory is in stock)
>
> We have a couple new towers... each connected with lots of BW and we have
> to compete with the cable company somewhat
>
>