Re: Stus-List hisker pole chock mast mount

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Tom, That product might eliminate the challenges I'm facing but it doesn't
look like it has enough stand off to accommodate the pole thickness.  I'm
trying to use the forespar deck chock.
http://www.forespar.com/product189.html

I'm afraid that the " manufacturer recommended" mast chock isn't going to
support the weight of the pole.  Though it appears that it would solve my
contouring problem.

http://www.forespar.com/product212.html

Josh

On Feb 10, 2018 1:18 AM, "Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> I put on my wish list as a possible stationary end to mount our whisker on
> the mast.
>
> https://www.fisheriessupply.com/ronstan-spinnaker-pole-
> mast-eye-ring-3-1-8in-dia-rf41
>
> But I need to do a template of the mast to make sure it will fit
>
> Tom Buscaglia
> S/V Alera
> 1990 C 37+/40
> Vashon WA
> P 206.463.9200 <(206)%20463-9200>
> C 305.409.3660 <(305)%20409-3660>
>
>
> On Feb 9, 2018, at 8:06 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 19:20:01 -0500
> From: Josh Muckley 
> To: "C List" 
> Subject: Stus-List Whisker pole chock mast mount
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Ok Guys,
>
> I've been test fitting the whisker pole and track extensions to the mast
> while it is pulled.  I need an extra section of track to get the inboard
> end of the pole high enough so that I can stow the pole on the mast.  I'm
> pretty much all set but I'm down to the chock which will hold the outboard
> end of the pole.  The chock has a flat base and needs to be mounted on the
> curved leading edge of the mast.
>
> I'm interested in the collective wisdom as to how to handle this situation.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Whisker pole chock mast mount

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I'm on board with your thoughts Dennis and Joel.  Some complications are
that the depth of the concave curvature to accommodate the mast is 1-5/8ths
which is a lot of sanding.  Furthermore the maximum available thickness for
starboard is 1" so some sort of stacking will be needed.

Thanks for the idea,
Josh

On Feb 9, 2018 7:20 PM, "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Ok Guys,
>
> I've been test fitting the whisker pole and track extensions to the mast
> while it is pulled.  I need an extra section of track to get the inboard
> end of the pole high enough so that I can stow the pole on the mast.  I'm
> pretty much all set but I'm down to the chock which will hold the outboard
> end of the pole.  The chock has a flat base and needs to be mounted on the
> curved leading edge of the mast.
>
> I'm interested in the collective wisdom as to how to handle this situation.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
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Stus-List hisker pole chock mast mount

[Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List]

I put on my wish list as a possible stationary end to mount our whisker on the 
mast.  

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/ronstan-spinnaker-pole-mast-eye-ring-3-1-8in-dia-rf41

But I need to do a template of the mast to make sure it will fit

Tom Buscaglia
S/V Alera 
1990 C 37+/40
Vashon WA
P 206.463.9200
C 305.409.3660


> On Feb 9, 2018, at 8:06 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 19:20:01 -0500
> From: Josh Muckley 
> To: "C List" 
> Subject: Stus-List Whisker pole chock mast mount
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Ok Guys,
> 
> I've been test fitting the whisker pole and track extensions to the mast
> while it is pulled.  I need an extra section of track to get the inboard
> end of the pole high enough so that I can stow the pole on the mast.  I'm
> pretty much all set but I'm down to the chock which will hold the outboard
> end of the pole.  The chock has a flat base and needs to be mounted on the
> curved leading edge of the mast.
> 
> I'm interested in the collective wisdom as to how to handle this situation.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
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Stus-List Removing Cetol

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

How do you remove Cetol? Do you use a heat gun? If so what about the gel
coat? Do you sand it off? I’m considering doing the toerails on my LF 38.

Yep.  Heat gun and a good scraper, preferably a two handed one.

Sanding also works but may be damaging to the wood.

Dennis C.
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Re: Stus-List Whisker pole chock mast mount

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Or use a contour gauge and trace the shape. Then cut it to shape

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 9:18 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Tape a piece of 60 grit sandpaper to the mast.  Rub a piece of teak,
> Starboard, UHMW or whatever up and down until it conforms to the mast.  2-3
> beer job.  Builds biceps.  Better to hoist more beers.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Feb 9, 2018 5:20 PM, "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> Ok Guys,
>>
>> I've been test fitting the whisker pole and track extensions to the mast
>> while it is pulled.  I need an extra section of track to get the inboard
>> end of the pole high enough so that I can stow the pole on the mast.  I'm
>> pretty much all set but I'm down to the chock which will hold the outboard
>> end of the pole.  The chock has a flat base and needs to be mounted on the
>> curved leading edge of the mast.
>>
>> I'm interested in the collective wisdom as to how to handle this
>> situation.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Whisker pole chock mast mount

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Tape a piece of 60 grit sandpaper to the mast.  Rub a piece of teak,
Starboard, UHMW or whatever up and down until it conforms to the mast.  2-3
beer job.  Builds biceps.  Better to hoist more beers.

Dennis C.

On Feb 9, 2018 5:20 PM, "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Ok Guys,
>
> I've been test fitting the whisker pole and track extensions to the mast
> while it is pulled.  I need an extra section of track to get the inboard
> end of the pole high enough so that I can stow the pole on the mast.  I'm
> pretty much all set but I'm down to the chock which will hold the outboard
> end of the pole.  The chock has a flat base and needs to be mounted on the
> curved leading edge of the mast.
>
> I'm interested in the collective wisdom as to how to handle this situation.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Digest as subject line

[BillBinaList via CnC-List]

The following words should NEVER appear in the subject of a reply: 
*Stus-List CnC-List Digest*


Everyone on the list thanks you!


On 2/9/2018 7:24 PM, John Christopher via CnC-List wrote:
How do you remove Cetol? Do you use a heat gun? If so what about the 
gel coat? Do you sand it off? I’m considering doing the toerails on my 
LF 38.



/J

On Feb 9, 2018, at 7:04 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
 wrote:



Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
Today's Topics:

  1. Re:  Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1 (Matthew L. Wolford)
  2. Re:  Exterior Teak / sanding between coats (Matthew L. Wolford)
  3. Re:  Exterior Teak (Dennis C.)



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Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 145, Issue 56

[John Christopher via CnC-List]

How do you remove Cetol? Do you use a heat gun? If so what about the gel coat? 
Do you sand it off? I’m considering doing the toerails on my LF 38.


/J

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 7:04 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
>cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re:  Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1 (Matthew L. Wolford)
>   2. Re:  Exterior Teak / sanding between coats (Matthew L. Wolford)
>   3. Re:  Exterior Teak (Dennis C.)
> 
> 
> 
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Stus-List C 37+ window replacement

[Mark Baldridge via CnC-List]

Hi All,

I'm in discussion with the yard to replace the fixed windows on my 
37/40+ this spring. They barely leak, but there are vertical splits on 
both sides of the forward windows and in big downpours do leak. I 
currently have blue tape on them to stop the leaks when I'm not around. 
I want them replaced and looking sharp before the wife picks out new 
upholstery for the interior.


So far I'm looking at having them use 3M 4991 VHB tape and Dow 795 
caulking. For those that have this done, any tips I should pass on to 
the folks doing the work.


Also what was used for the windows, "cast" plexiglass? and what 
thickness? I've read 3/8 in posts, but I've been told 1/4" would work 
better due to the curvature of the adhesion area.


Thanks,
Mark Baldridge
~~_/)
'89 C 37/40+ "The Edge"
Surf City, NC



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Stus-List Whisker pole chock mast mount

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Ok Guys,

I've been test fitting the whisker pole and track extensions to the mast
while it is pulled.  I need an extra section of track to get the inboard
end of the pole high enough so that I can stow the pole on the mast.  I'm
pretty much all set but I'm down to the chock which will hold the outboard
end of the pole.  The chock has a flat base and needs to be mounted on the
curved leading edge of the mast.

I'm interested in the collective wisdom as to how to handle this situation.


Thanks,

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[BillBinaList via CnC-List]

New, but worth investigating:

http://www.pettitpaint.com/products/varnish-wood-finishes/exterior-varnish/seagold/

Bill Bina


On 2/9/2018 7:03 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
That would be my guess, also.  If I ever "lose" the Cetol, I'm 
definitely going to consider stripping the Cetol and switching to 
Awlwood with proper prep, of course.  Knock on wood (LOL), the Cetol 
will last a few more years.


Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA



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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

That would be my guess, also.  If I ever "lose" the Cetol, I'm definitely
going to consider stripping the Cetol and switching to Awlwood with proper
prep, of course.  Knock on wood (LOL), the Cetol will last a few more years.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Feb 9, 2018 2:42 PM, "Dave Godwin via CnC-List" 
wrote:

Dennis,

Haven’t reviewed the instructions recently but I am fairly certain that
you’ll need to get to clean, bare wood if you use the Primer. There seems
to be cases  of
overcoating other products but I didn’t see Cetol mentioned.

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 

On Feb 9, 2018, at 4:35 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
wrote:

T-1 hanks for the feedack on Awlwood everybody.  My Cetol is in good
conditionfor now.  I've said in previous posts that I would definitely
be amenable to switching to Awlwood.  Cetol has been around for many years
now.  I'm guessing that the folks at Awlgrip have figured out how to
produce a product that is better than Cetol.

Anybody know about compatibility?  Can you put Awlwood over Cetol Gloss?
Hmmm.  I might search for the answer to that.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA



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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak / sanding between coats

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

This may be the problem I encountered.  The guy in Australia probably doesn’t 
have large temperature swings like we do on the Great Lakes.

From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2018 2:26 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Bruce Whitmore 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak / sanding between coats

Just be careful it's Spar Varnish and not Polyurethane.  Spar Varnish retains 
more flexibility so withstand the heat swings of being exposed outside.

Caution is advised though - I'm no expert!

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net






From: William Hall via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list  
Cc: William Hall 
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak / sanding between coats


This summer I discovered varnish in a spray can.  I decided to try it on my 
grab rails. Two interesting differences from traditional varnish: 

- Subsequent coats can be applied without sanding if done within an hour or so. 
 You don't wait for it to dry completely.  
- No brush marks

Has anyone else had experience with it? I thought it worked pretty well in my 
test, and certainly liked the ability to get many coats done in a short day. I 
look forward to seeing how it holds up over time.  It seems there must be some 
downside to this!

Bill
Starfire
C 37
Ludington, MI


On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 11:43 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
wrote:

  Dave, 

  You're not an unwanted guest.  I actually agree with your opinion to some 
degree.  I was walking piers one day and saw a Pearson 365 that belonged to a 
local sailmaker.  The varnished teak toe rails looked amazing. I asked him how 
many coats of varnish.  Answer: 23.

  I varnished the teak grate in Touche's head a few years back.  Applied in 
excess of 15 coats, probably more than 20.  Sanding between each coat.  It 
looks really good.

  Philosophically, I liken the Cetol vs varnish decision to that of Awlgrip vs 
Awlcraft 2000.  Awlgrip is harder, probably looks better longer but is harder 
to apply and repair.  

  For me, the difference is in the sanding between coats.  If you want really 
great varnish, you need to diligently sand between coats.  Cetol does not 
require sanding between coats.  Apllying a filler to the bare teak prior to 
varnish is another difference.

  Interested in results and experiences with Awlwood.

  Dennis C.
  Touche' 35-1 #83
  Mandeville, LA

  On Feb 9, 2018 9:11 AM, "Dave Godwin via CnC-List"  
wrote:

Consider me the unwanted guest at the party on this thread but I won’t use 
Cetol. A few reasons. Years ago I redid all the teak trim on my Mako 261. 
Fortunately the teak was just aged out. No prior coating that I could 
determine. I sanded to bright, applied base coats of light Cetol and then 
several coats of their Gloss. It looked okay, but not nearly as nice as a good 
varnish job. I figured I could live with that if the maintenance was 
substantially less than varnish. 

It didn’t turn out that way. Yes, the Cetol lasted a bit longer than 
varnish but not enough to overcome the “look” that IMHO was not as smooth and 
deep as varnish.

Although I haven’t subjected my exterior teak trim on “Ronin” to the 
outdoors yet, everything that I have re-varnished, cabin sole included, has 
been done with AwlWood. Just from an ease of application (5/6 coats versus 8-10 
for regular varnish) and the deep, clear look it is worth it. 

As an aside, I have a friend with a Tartan 37 who ponied up $4,000 last 
year to have a professional crew redo all his exterior teak with Cetol. I 
watched the process being done in the yard near my boat. It took every bit as 
much time as a varnish job. Yesterday I was on his boat checking it out for him 
and I was noting the quality of the finish. Very good but nowhere near as nice 
as a well done varnish job.

And being the contrarian that I can be, next time I have to apply AwlWood, 
I’ll spray.

Best, 
Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit


  On Feb 9, 2018, at 9:10 AM, David via CnC-List  
wrote:

  So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that 
for looks?   Hardness?  Both?

  Thanks in advance.


  David F. Risch

  (401) 419-4650 (cell)





--

  From: CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
  To: CnClist
  Cc: Dennis C.
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak 

  I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously 
oiled them every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap. 

 

Re: Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Bill’s cheater main is definitely roachy (just kidding, Bill).

From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2018 2:21 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

I think the biggest bang for the buck is a full roach main.

Shortly after buying the boat, I got mad at the boom and bought a new extrusion 
from Charleston, they sell in 2 foot increments. I was telling a friend (who 
also had a 39, and was an NA Intern at C in the early 70’s) what I was doing, 
and he said, don’t bother cutting that extra foot off, just leave it 14’, it 
will sail better”  So I did, and with a full roach, it was a game changer. PHRF 
nicked me 6 seconds, but it was well worth it. When the wind pipes up 18 – 20 
and over, I just drop the main and sail with the 140 Genoa.  Only (very slight 
drawback), is the 140 had to be a little heavy to do this.

Oh yeah, one other thing, in very light air you have to *help* the main across 
the backstay. 

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jim Giffing 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 6:35 PM
To: Chuck S; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jim Giffing; Francois Rivard
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

 

Thanks for the comments all!!!

 

At minimum I am sure to have my wife crew with me - she is a willing and 
experienced crew. Sadly both my boys are living in Michigan now so neither of 
them nor their sig others are around anymore.  But I hope to scrounge up a few 
friends when needed.

 

I worked it out with the sailmaker. He was trying to decide whether to build a 
light Genoa or a flatter medium light that I could carry a little longer. I 
opted for the latter. I don’t need to go thru a panic sail change if the wind 
suddenly pipes up just because of the fear of damaging the sail.

 

So now the deposit has been mailed and the waiting begins. Getting excited to 
have a new sail.

 

Still have to get the cutlass bearing dealt with and few other spring 
“projects” completed and back in the water! Yippee! Spring is around the corner.

 

Thanks

Jim

S/V Strong Tower

1977 C Mk1

North East Md

 

Get Outlook for iOS





On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 5:58 PM -0500, "Chuck S"  wrote:

Francois, 

Thanks for a very thorough response.  I learn from your observations, always.   
We need to get together for a double handed race n the Chesapeake.

 

Jim, 

younger crew are harder and harder to find.  My all-time best crew of 2012 went 
to college and graduated and one is a sales rep for Doyle Sails in Florida, 
another works in NYC in IT, and another is an officer with NOAA stationed in 
Hawaii.   My own son is doing IT in a startup in Las Vegas.

 

I live and work in NJ and I'm 63 and race solo on a C 34R out of Magothy 
River without crew, no arguments, no worries, I love the experiences without 
any negatives.  I haven't won anything but I'm having fun doing the distance 
races to Baltimore or Annapolis out and back.

 

You should consider sailing solo or even two handed.  Join CHESSS at 
www.chbaysss.org

 

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md

  On February 7, 2018 at 5:00 PM Francois Rivard via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  I sail a 34+, not a 29 but here's what I was told by my sail maker who was 
the guy beat in the phrf cruiser class for many years on the lake.  

   

  For what it's worth: 

   

  For racing in light wind conditions (10 and under) , especially beer can 
racing the 150 - 155 gennies are gold, you get great power accelerating the 
boat away from the cans. 

   

  That has certainly been our experience.  Our 150 was literally a game changer 
on Wednesday nights, worth far more than the phrf adjustment.  The added 
straight line talent more than offsets the reduced pointing and added time for 
tacks.  

   

  Easy way to see when to change / or pick another sail to start with? If you 
see white caps ->  use the 135.  

   

   

  If not racing  / just cruising around we use the 135 unless it's really light 
like 5-6 knots or less.  We use it because we have it..  If I was not racing I 
could definitely get by on the 135 only.  

   

  my 2 cents. 

   

  Best regards, 

   

  Francois Rivard

  1990 34+ "Take Five"

  Lake Lanier, GA

   

   

   

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Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

[schiller via CnC-List]

I can pitch in on Agreed value in a dis-masting. Auto Owners wrote a 
check for the Agreed value once the repair quote came in at 1.5 times 
Agreed value.  No depreciation, no haggles.  They even gave me the 
option of them disposing the hull for salvage or leaving it to me.  I 
convinced Torresen Marine to take it off my hands for a song.  They 
still have it for those 35, Mark I owners that may need hull parts like 
emergency tillers. Contact Torresen's service department to see if they 
are interested.  Contact me if they give you the run around and I can 
run interference.


Neil Schiller
Old: 1970 Redwing 35 (C 35-1) #007
New 1983 C 35-5, #028
"Grace"
White Lake Michigan
WLYC

On 2/9/2018 12:14 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:


Agreed value is for the entire boat. I am not sure that helps with 
dismasting or other non-total loses.


Joe Della Barba

Coquina

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List

*Sent:* Friday, February 09, 2018 12:09 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* Marek Dziedzic
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

Isn’t one of the options the so called “agreed value” insurance? This 
is what I am using for over 10 years (both for the previous boat and 
this one). This way, the value does not depreciate over time. You 
agree on the value (in fact you call it, but they adjust the premium) 
and that’s it. Any additional costs (liability, salvage etc.) don’t 
depreciate, so it is not the issue.


just my 2 (Canadian) cents

Marek

in Ottawa, ON

*From:*John Christopher via CnC-List

*Sent:*Friday, February 9, 2018 11:57

*To:*Joel Aronson

*Cc:*John Christopher ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 



*Subject:*Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat 
U.S./Geico!


Hi,

Have been monitoring this thread from the Canadian north.

A pattern to consider in relation to depreciation is, considering the 
hurricanes, storms, frequency, numbers, and perhaps where people store 
their boats for the winter (mainland or other).


It comes to mind the insurers are also mitigating their risk for the 
future. As a result they have devised a method that supports paying 
out far less than they do today due to the increased frequency of 
disasters.


I don’t mean to stir the pot here, just an observation.

/J




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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

Dennis,

Haven’t reviewed the instructions recently but I am fairly certain that you’ll 
need to get to clean, bare wood if you use the Primer. There seems to be cases 
 of overcoating 
other products but I didn’t see Cetol mentioned.

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 4:35 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the feedack on Awlwood everybody.  My Cetol is in good 
> conditionfor now.  I've said in previous posts that I would definitely be 
> amenable to switching to Awlwood.  Cetol has been around for many years now.  
> I'm guessing that the folks at Awlgrip have figured out how to produce a 
> product that is better than Cetol.
> 
> Anybody know about compatibility?  Can you put Awlwood over Cetol Gloss?  
> Hmmm.  I might search for the answer to that.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA

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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Thanks for the feedack on Awlwood everybody.  My Cetol is in good
conditionfor now.  I've said in previous posts that I would definitely
be amenable to switching to Awlwood.  Cetol has been around for many years
now.  I'm guessing that the folks at Awlgrip have figured out how to
produce a product that is better than Cetol.

Anybody know about compatibility?  Can you put Awlwood over Cetol Gloss?
Hmmm.  I might search for the answer to that.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Feb 9, 2018 10:07 AM, "Frederick G Street via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Dennis — I did NOT do any sanding after the initial wood preparation;
> nothing between coats.  The first coat of AwlWood is a colored or clear
> primer coat; apply with a rag, and let dry for twenty-four hours.  The
> finish coats go on well with disposable foam brushes; thin coats, with a
> redcoat time of about two to four hours (maybe more with higher humidity).
> I did ten coats on everything (six handrails and four Dorade boxes) over
> two days.
>
> The finished results can be seen here: www.postaudio.net/webserver/
> IMG_1607.JPG
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Feb 9, 2018, at 10:43 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> For me, the difference is in the sanding between coats.  If you want
> really great varnish, you need to diligently sand between coats.  Cetol
> does not require sanding between coats.  Apllying a filler to the bare teak
> prior to varnish is another difference.
>
> Interested in results and experiences with Awlwood.
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

This is the wording for our policy's section on Partial Loss:

2) Partial Loss

If the watercraft sustains partial damage from a covered loss we will pay
the reasonable cost to repair, in accordance with customary repair
practices, or replace, whichever is less, with like kind and quality
without deduction for depreciation up to the amount of physical damage
coverage shown on the Pleasurecraft Insurance Policy Declarations page.


We will only pay Actual Cash Value at the time of the loss for sails,
protective covers, fabric or similar material, older than (5) years of age.

We will reduce our payment by any amount paid for a previous loss to the
watercraft if damage from a previous occurrence was not repaired.


The definition of watercraft includes spars, rigging, etc.;

*Watercraft* means the vessel(s) you own, as described on the Pleasurecraft
Insurance Policy Declarations page, including the power units and/or
auxiliary outboard motors, spars, sails, rigging, accessories and equipment
together with any dinghy or tender.

This is a Cowan Group Policy, in Canada.

I looked at a different policy last time we renewed and I didn't like the
wording for partial loss, as it did deduct for depreciation.  we stayed
with Cowan as a result.


Ken H.


On 9 February 2018 at 13:14, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Agreed value is for the entire boat. I am not sure that helps with
> dismasting or other non-total loses.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Joe Della Barba
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Marek
> Dziedzic via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, February 09, 2018 12:09 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Marek Dziedzic
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance
>
>
>
> Isn’t one of the options the so called “agreed value” insurance? This is
> what I am using for over 10 years (both for the previous boat and this
> one). This way, the value does not depreciate over time. You agree on the
> value (in fact you call it, but they adjust the premium) and that’s it. Any
> additional costs (liability, salvage etc.) don’t depreciate, so it is not
> the issue.
>
>
>
> just my 2 (Canadian) cents
>
>
>
> Marek
>
> in Ottawa, ON
>
>
>
> *From:* John Christopher via CnC-List
>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 9, 2018 11:57
>
> *To:* Joel Aronson
>
> *Cc:* John Christopher ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat
> U.S./Geico!
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Have been monitoring this thread from the Canadian north.
>
>
>
> A pattern to consider in relation to depreciation is, considering the
> hurricanes, storms, frequency, numbers, and perhaps where people store
> their boats for the winter (mainland or other).
>
>
>
> It comes to mind the insurers are also mitigating  their risk for the
> future. As a result they have devised a method that supports paying out far
> less than they do today due to the increased frequency of disasters.
>
>
>
> I don’t mean to stir the pot here, just an observation.
>
>
>
> /J
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

[Jack Fitzgerald via CnC-List]

Same here, Bill

I had UK build a gold tape drive main with the most roach that the boat's
rig can stand.The local PHRF committee nicked me 6 secs, but this sail more
than made up for the lost time. We have a Tides Marine strong track on the
mast so in light light air we just drop the main about a foot, tack &
re-hoist then use the cunningham to tweak the shape and in any breeze over
8 knots the roach just pops under the backstay and off we go. Note that UK
added thick Mylar chafe guards over the top batten to reduce the friction
where it contact the backstay


Best regards,
Jack Fitzgerald
HONEY (C 39TM)
US12788
Savannah, GA USA

This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
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On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 2:21 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I think the biggest bang for the buck is a full roach main.
>
> Shortly after buying the boat, I got mad at the boom and bought a new
> extrusion from Charleston, they sell in 2 foot increments. I was telling a
> friend (who also had a 39, and was an NA Intern at C in the early 70’s)
> what I was doing, and he said, don’t bother cutting that extra foot off,
> just leave it 14’, it will sail better”  So I did, and with a full roach,
> it was a game changer. PHRF nicked me 6 seconds, but it was well worth it.
> When the wind pipes up 18 – 20 and over, I just drop the main and sail with
> the 140 Genoa.  Only (very slight drawback), is the 140 had to be a little
> heavy to do this.
>
> Oh yeah, one other thing, in very light air you have to **help** the main
> across the backstay.
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> C 39 Erie, PA
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Jim
> Giffing via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 07, 2018 6:35 PM
> *To:* Chuck S; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Jim Giffing; Francois Rivard
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1
>
>
>
> Thanks for the comments all!!!
>
>
>
> At minimum I am sure to have my wife crew with me - she is a willing and
> experienced crew. Sadly both my boys are living in Michigan now so neither
> of them nor their sig others are around anymore.  But I hope to scrounge up
> a few friends when needed.
>
>
>
> I worked it out with the sailmaker. He was trying to decide whether to
> build a light Genoa or a flatter medium light that I could carry a little
> longer. I opted for the latter. I don’t need to go thru a panic sail change
> if the wind suddenly pipes up just because of the fear of damaging the sail.
>
>
>
> So now the deposit has been mailed and the waiting begins. Getting excited
> to have a new sail.
>
>
>
> Still have to get the cutlass bearing dealt with and few other spring
> “projects” completed and back in the water! Yippee! Spring is around the
> corner.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim
>
> S/V Strong Tower
>
> 1977 C Mk1
>
> North East Md
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 5:58 PM -0500, "Chuck S" 
> wrote:
>
> Francois,
>
> Thanks for a very thorough response.  I learn from your observations,
> always.   We need to get together for a double handed race n the Chesapeake.
>
>
>
> Jim,
>
> younger crew are harder and harder to find.  My all-time best crew of 2012
> went to college and graduated and one is a sales rep for Doyle Sails in
> Florida, another works in NYC in IT, and another is an officer with NOAA
> stationed in Hawaii.   My own son is doing IT in a startup in Las Vegas.
>
>
>
> I live and work in NJ and I'm 63 and race solo on a C 34R out of Magothy
> River without crew, no arguments, no worries, I love the experiences
> without any negatives.  I haven't won anything but I'm having fun doing the
> distance races to Baltimore or Annapolis out and back.
>
>
>
> You should consider sailing solo or even two handed.  Join CHESSS at
> www.chbaysss.org
>
>
>
> Chuck
> *Resolute*
> 1990 C 34R
> Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md
>
> On February 7, 2018 at 5:00 PM Francois Rivard via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I sail a 34+, not a 29 but here's what I was told by my sail maker who was
> the guy beat in the phrf cruiser class for many years on the lake.
>
>
>
> For what it's worth:
>
>
>
> For racing in light wind conditions (10 and under) , especially beer can
> racing the 150 - 155 gennies are gold, you get great power accelerating the
> boat away from the cans.
>
>
>
> That has certainly been our experience.  Our 150 was literally a game
> changer on Wednesday nights, worth far more than the phrf adjustment.  The
> added straight line talent more than offsets the reduced pointing and added
> 

Stus-List Fwd: Good Old Boat February 2018 Dogwatch News

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

Hello all,

I think the linked article below BARIENT WINCH HACK would be of use to the
list members.

Ken H.

BARIENT WINCH HACKby Joe Rosenfeld

Many of us have Barient winches on our good old boats. If you’ve got them,
you may have noticed that they aren’t what they once were. My late 80’s
cruiser/racer has 8 of them.

Years ago, servicing the winches, I noticed that all of the cage bearings
(two per winch) needed to be replaced. The plastic  containment cages were
intact, but many of the nylon/plastic rollers were either flattened or
split. At the time, replacement bearings were available at a fair price, so
I installed new bearings and went on my merry way.

...read more 
https://www.audioseastories.com/fs_winch/
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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

I’ve resized the image (smaller) and re-posted; try it now: 
http://www.postaudio.net/webserver/IMG_1607.JPG 


— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 1:44 PM, bushmark4--- via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I had the same issueanyone know how to get the photo operational? Thanks
> 
> Richard
> s/v Bushm ark4; 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River
> 
> 
> Richard N. Bush 
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
> 502-584-7255
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List  >
> To: cnc-list >
> Cc: Joel Aronson >
> Sent: Fri, Feb 9, 2018 2:40 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak
> 
> Photo would not load, but if it didn't look great Fred wouldn't have shared 
> it!

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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[bushmark4--- via CnC-List]

 I had the same issueanyone know how to get the photo operational? Thanks

 


Richard
s/v Bushm ark4; 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River


Richard N. Bush 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Joel Aronson 
Sent: Fri, Feb 9, 2018 2:40 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak



Photo would not load, but if it didn't look great Fred wouldn't have shared it!





Virus-free. www.avg.com 





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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Photo would not load, but if it didn't look great Fred wouldn't have shared
it!


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 1:36 PM, detroito91 via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Fred .. wow..a job well done
> Something can shoot for.
> Jim schwartz
>
>  Original message 
> From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
> Date: 2/9/18 12:06 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Frederick G Street 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak
>
> Dennis — I did NOT do any sanding after the initial wood preparation;
> nothing between coats.  The first coat of AwlWood is a colored or clear
> primer coat; apply with a rag, and let dry for twenty-four hours.  The
> finish coats go on well with disposable foam brushes; thin coats, with a
> redcoat time of about two to four hours (maybe more with higher humidity).
> I did ten coats on everything (six handrails and four Dorade boxes) over
> two days.
>
> The finished results can be seen here: www.postaudio.net/webserver/
> IMG_1607.JPG
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Feb 9, 2018, at 10:43 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> For me, the difference is in the sanding between coats.  If you want
> really great varnish, you need to diligently sand between coats.  Cetol
> does not require sanding between coats.  Apllying a filler to the bare teak
> prior to varnish is another difference.
>
> Interested in results and experiences with Awlwood.
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

[Joe Della Barba via CnC-List]

Well I did the Progressive online calculator and I think I would save 
about $200. Right now BOATUS is charging me $150/yr for my Boston Whaler 
that would be something like $40/yr as an extra boat with Progressive. 
Switching ASAP!



Joe

Coquina


On 02/09/2018 02:22 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List wrote:


For those of you who decide to change carriers mid-year, demand Boat 
U.S. return 100% of the unearned premium because of the failure to 
disclose the change in settlement provisions by comparison to the old 
CNA policy.  You don't want them to hit you with a "short rate 
penalty" which would reduce the refund they will process.


Thanks again to Joel for pointing this out,
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net



*F*


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Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

[robert via CnC-List]

We raced a 33 MKII extensivelyhad good sails...boat handled 
wellthen the owner got a new Doyle Pentax full roach mainhe 
didn't know he was getting a main with a big roach he didn't have 
originallythe sail maker, Brad from Doyle took it upon himself to do 
it, he knew we were seriously campaigning the boat.


There was a noticeable difference and not that the old main sail was all 
that bad...it wasn't, Bruce had decided he wanted a new main.


We felt the big roach helped to point that boat very well and the extra 
sq. footage in the main downwind didn't slow us down.


And yes, in light air you need to 'feather' the main across the backstay 
but it is worth itthe other points of sail outweigh the light air stuff.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2018-02-09 3:21 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List wrote:


I think the biggest bang for the buck is a full roach main.

Shortly after buying the boat, I got mad at the boom and bought a new 
extrusion from Charleston, they sell in 2 foot increments. I was 
telling a friend (who also had a 39, and was an NA Intern at C in 
the early 70’s) what I was doing, and he said, don’t bother cutting 
that extra foot off, just leave it 14’, it will sail better”  So I 
did, and with a full roach, it was a game changer. PHRF nicked me 6 
seconds, but it was well worth it. When the wind pipes up 18 – 20 and 
over, I just drop the main and sail with the 140 Genoa.  Only (very 
slight drawback), is the 140 had to be a little heavy to do this.


Oh yeah, one other thing, in very light air you have to **help** the 
main across the backstay.


Bill Coleman




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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak / sanding between coats

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Just be careful it's Spar Varnish and not Polyurethane.  Spar Varnish retains 
more flexibility so withstand the heat swings of being exposed outside.
Caution is advised though - I'm no expert! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: William Hall via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list  
Cc: William Hall 
 Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 12:08 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak / sanding between coats
   
This summer I discovered varnish in a spray can.  I decided to try it on my 
grab rails. Two interesting differences from traditional varnish:
- Subsequent coats can be applied without sanding if done within an hour or so. 
 You don't wait for it to dry completely.  - No brush marks
Has anyone else had experience with it? I thought it worked pretty well in my 
test, and certainly liked the ability to get many coats done in a short day. I 
look forward to seeing how it holds up over time.  It seems there must be some 
downside to this!
BillStarfireC 37Ludington, MI

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 11:43 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
wrote:

Dave,
You're not an unwanted guest.  I actually agree with your opinion to some 
degree.  I was walking piers one day and saw a Pearson 365 that belonged to a 
local sailmaker.  The varnished teak toe rails looked amazing. I asked him how 
many coats of varnish.  Answer: 23.
I varnished the teak grate in Touche's head a few years back.  Applied in 
excess of 15 coats, probably more than 20.  Sanding between each coat.  It 
looks really good.
Philosophically, I liken the Cetol vs varnish decision to that of Awlgrip vs 
Awlcraft 2000.  Awlgrip is harder, probably looks better longer but is harder 
to apply and repair.  
For me, the difference is in the sanding between coats.  If you want really 
great varnish, you need to diligently sand between coats.  Cetol does not 
require sanding between coats.  Apllying a filler to the bare teak prior to 
varnish is another difference.
Interested in results and experiences with Awlwood.
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
On Feb 9, 2018 9:11 AM, "Dave Godwin via CnC-List"  
wrote:

Consider me the unwanted guest at the party on this thread but I won’t use 
Cetol. A few reasons. Years ago I redid all the teak trim on my Mako 261. 
Fortunately the teak was just aged out. No prior coating that I could 
determine. I sanded to bright, applied base coats of light Cetol and then 
several coats of their Gloss. It looked okay, but not nearly as nice as a good 
varnish job. I figured I could live with that if the maintenance was 
substantially less than varnish.
It didn’t turn out that way. Yes, the Cetol lasted a bit longer than varnish 
but not enough to overcome the “look” that IMHO was not as smooth and deep as 
varnish.
Although I haven’t subjected my exterior teak trim on “Ronin” to the outdoors 
yet, everything that I have re-varnished, cabin sole included, has been done 
with AwlWood. Just from an ease of application (5/6 coats versus 8-10 for 
regular varnish) and the deep, clear look it is worth it. 
As an aside, I have a friend with a Tartan 37 who ponied up $4,000 last year to 
have a professional crew redo all his exterior teak with Cetol. I watched the 
process being done in the yard near my boat. It took every bit as much time as 
a varnish job. Yesterday I was on his boat checking it out for him and I was 
noting the quality of the finish. Very good but nowhere near as nice as a well 
done varnish job.
And being the contrarian that I can be, next time I have to apply AwlWood, I’ll 
spray.
Best,Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake BayRonin’s Overdue Refit

On Feb 9, 2018, at 9:10 AM, David via CnC-List  wrote:
So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that for 
looks?   Hardness?  Both?
Thanks in advance.

David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C. via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
To: CnClist
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak I used teak oil on the toe rails of my 
previous boat.  I religiously oiled them every few months.  After a few months, 
they looked like crap.
On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats Cetol 
Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in the 
Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.
I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and 
time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List"  
wrote:

My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to refinish 
it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was wondering if 
anyone has just used 

Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

For those of you who decide to change carriers mid-year, demand Boat U.S. 
return 100% of the unearned premium because of the failure to disclose the 
change in settlement provisions by comparison to the old CNA policy.  You don't 
want them to hit you with a "short rate penalty" which would reduce the refund 
they will process.
Thanks again to Joel for pointing this out, Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Frederick G Street 
 Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 2:11 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance
   
I’m with you; I checked my policy earlier today and found that same verbiage.  
Maybe it’s time to get in touch with BoatUS to express our total and complete 
disgust.
— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Feb 9, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List  
wrote:
I agree with Joel.  

The Agreed Value says that everyone's agreed as to the payment in the event of 
a total loss.  

I'm looking at the declarations page from Boat U.S. right now, and it says 
nothing about depreciation in the case of repairs (for less than a total loss). 
 That is buried down in the policy language itself on Page 4 of 13 under "(2) 
Repair for Partial Loss"
I'm just plain offended...  Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net



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Re: Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

I think the biggest bang for the buck is a full roach main.

Shortly after buying the boat, I got mad at the boom and bought a new extrusion 
from Charleston, they sell in 2 foot increments. I was telling a friend (who 
also had a 39, and was an NA Intern at C in the early 70’s) what I was doing, 
and he said, don’t bother cutting that extra foot off, just leave it 14’, it 
will sail better”  So I did, and with a full roach, it was a game changer. PHRF 
nicked me 6 seconds, but it was well worth it. When the wind pipes up 18 – 20 
and over, I just drop the main and sail with the 140 Genoa.  Only (very slight 
drawback), is the 140 had to be a little heavy to do this.

Oh yeah, one other thing, in very light air you have to *help* the main across 
the backstay. 

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jim Giffing 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 6:35 PM
To: Chuck S; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jim Giffing; Francois Rivard
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sail Changeover for 29 Mk1

 

Thanks for the comments all!!!

 

At minimum I am sure to have my wife crew with me - she is a willing and 
experienced crew. Sadly both my boys are living in Michigan now so neither of 
them nor their sig others are around anymore.  But I hope to scrounge up a few 
friends when needed.

 

I worked it out with the sailmaker. He was trying to decide whether to build a 
light Genoa or a flatter medium light that I could carry a little longer. I 
opted for the latter. I don’t need to go thru a panic sail change if the wind 
suddenly pipes up just because of the fear of damaging the sail.

 

So now the deposit has been mailed and the waiting begins. Getting excited to 
have a new sail.

 

Still have to get the cutlass bearing dealt with and few other spring 
“projects” completed and back in the water! Yippee! Spring is around the corner.

 

Thanks

Jim

S/V Strong Tower

1977 C Mk1

North East Md

 

Get Outlook for iOS  





On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 5:58 PM -0500, "Chuck S"  wrote:

Francois, 

Thanks for a very thorough response.  I learn from your observations, always.   
We need to get together for a double handed race n the Chesapeake.

 

Jim, 

younger crew are harder and harder to find.  My all-time best crew of 2012 went 
to college and graduated and one is a sales rep for Doyle Sails in Florida, 
another works in NYC in IT, and another is an officer with NOAA stationed in 
Hawaii.   My own son is doing IT in a startup in Las Vegas.

 

I live and work in NJ and I'm 63 and race solo on a C 34R out of Magothy 
River without crew, no arguments, no worries, I love the experiences without 
any negatives.  I haven't won anything but I'm having fun doing the distance 
races to Baltimore or Annapolis out and back.

 

You should consider sailing solo or even two handed.  Join CHESSS at 
www.chbaysss.org

 

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md

On February 7, 2018 at 5:00 PM Francois Rivard via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I sail a 34+, not a 29 but here's what I was told by my sail maker who was the 
guy beat in the phrf cruiser class for many years on the lake.  

 

For what it's worth: 

 

For racing in light wind conditions (10 and under) , especially beer can racing 
the 150 - 155 gennies are gold, you get great power accelerating the boat away 
from the cans. 

 

That has certainly been our experience.  Our 150 was literally a game changer 
on Wednesday nights, worth far more than the phrf adjustment.  The added 
straight line talent more than offsets the reduced pointing and added time for 
tacks.  

 

Easy way to see when to change / or pick another sail to start with? If you see 
white caps ->  use the 135.  

 

 

If not racing  / just cruising around we use the 135 unless it's really light 
like 5-6 knots or less.  We use it because we have it..  If I was not racing I 
could definitely get by on the 135 only.  

 

my 2 cents. 

 

Best regards, 

 

Francois Rivard

1990 34+ "Take Five"

Lake Lanier, GA

 

 

 

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Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

I’m with you; I checked my policy earlier today and found that same verbiage.  
Maybe it’s time to get in touch with BoatUS to express our total and complete 
disgust.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I agree with Joel.  
> 
> The Agreed Value says that everyone's agreed as to the payment in the event 
> of a total loss.  
> 
> I'm looking at the declarations page from Boat U.S. right now, and it says 
> nothing about depreciation in the case of repairs (for less than a total 
> loss).  That is buried down in the policy language itself on Page 4 of 13 
> under "(2) Repair for Partial Loss"
> 
> I'm just plain offended... 
>  
> Bruce Whitmore
> 
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net 
> 

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Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I agree with Joel.  

The Agreed Value says that everyone's agreed as to the payment in the event of 
a total loss.  

I'm looking at the declarations page from Boat U.S. right now, and it says 
nothing about depreciation in the case of repairs (for less than a total loss). 
 That is buried down in the policy language itself on Page 4 of 13 under "(2) 
Repair for Partial Loss"
I'm just plain offended...  Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Joel Aronson 
 Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 12:31 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance
   
"Agreed value" applies in a total loss situation.  Its a ceiling, not a floor.
Joel

|  | Virus-free. www.avg.com  |


On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:21 PM, John Christopher via CnC-List 
 wrote:

You could very well be right (being in Canada) for the last 10 years, but let’s 
keep an eye on what the fine print says on renewal forms as a trend.


/J
On Feb 9, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:


Isn’t one of the options the so called “agreed value” insurance? This is what I 
am using for over 10 years (both for the previous boat and this one). This way, 
the value does not depreciate over time. You agree on the value (in fact you 
call it, but they adjust the premium) and that’s it. Any additional costs 
(liability, salvage etc.) don’t depreciate, so it is not the issue. just my 2 
(Canadian) cents Marekin Ottawa, ON From: John Christopher via CnC-ListSent: 
Friday, February 9, 2018 11:57To: Joel Aronson Cc: John Christopher ; 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: 
SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico! Hi, Have been monitoring this thread from the 
Canadian north. A pattern to consider in relation to depreciation is, 
considering the hurricanes, storms, frequency, numbers, and perhaps where 
people store their boats for the winter (mainland or other). It comes to mind 
the insurers are also mitigating  their risk for the future. As a result they 
have devised a method that supports paying out far less than they do today due 
to the increased frequency of disasters. I don’t mean to stir the pot here, 
just an observation.


/J
 

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-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551___

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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[detroito91 via CnC-List]

Fred .. wow..a job well doneSomething can shoot for.Jim schwartz 
 Original message From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
 Date: 2/9/18  12:06 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Frederick G Street  Subject: Re: 
Stus-List Exterior Teak 
Dennis — I did NOT do any sanding after the initial wood preparation; nothing 
between coats.  The first coat of AwlWood is a colored or clear primer coat; 
apply with a rag, and let dry for twenty-four hours.  The finish coats go on 
well with disposable foam brushes; thin coats, with a redcoat time of about two 
to four hours (maybe more with higher humidity).  I did ten coats on everything 
(six handrails and four Dorade boxes) over two days.
The finished results can be seen here: www.postaudio.net/webserver/IMG_1607.JPG

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(


On Feb 9, 2018, at 10:43 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
wrote:
For me, the difference is in the sanding between coats.  If you want really 
great varnish, you need to diligently sand between coats.  Cetol does not 
require sanding between coats.  Apllying a filler to the bare teak prior to 
varnish is another difference.
Interested in results and experiences with Awlwood.
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Stus-List Help

[Greg and Reagan via CnC-List]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 12:43 PM, "cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
>cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re:  Restarting Thread - Insurance (Joel Aronson)
>   2. Re:  Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!
>  (Bill Bina - gmail)
>   3. Re:  Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!
>  (Randy Stafford)
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

My Ameriprise broker just told me Progressive doesn’t depreciate.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 10:12 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> So what about Progressive or Allstate?
> Do either one of them do the “depreciating” BS? I can see depreciating sails 
> and exterior canvas, but things like a pedestal? It is cast aluminum and 
> should last 500 years without issue if no one breaks it or steals it.
> Seems like a backdoor rate increase – you get less for your money L
> Joe
> Coquina
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David via 
> CnC-List
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2018 12:00 PM
> To: Joel Aronson; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: David; John Christopher
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat 
> U.S./Geico!
>  
> Yup...apparently BoatUS lost their shirt after the last round of 
> hurricanes...boats over-insured etc.
>  
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>  
> 
> From: CnC-List  > on behalf of John Christopher via 
> CnC-List >
> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 11:56 AM
> To: Joel Aronson
> Cc: John Christopher; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat 
> U.S./Geico!
>  
> Hi,
>  
> Have been monitoring this thread from the Canadian north.
>  
> A pattern to consider in relation to depreciation is, considering the 
> hurricanes, storms, frequency, numbers, and perhaps where people store their 
> boats for the winter (mainland or other). 
>  
> It comes to mind the insurers are also mitigating  their risk for the future. 
> As a result they have devised a method that supports paying out far less than 
> they do today due to the increased frequency of disasters.
>  
> I don’t mean to stir the pot here, just an observation.
> 
>  
> /J
> 
> On Feb 9, 2018, at 11:30 AM, Joel Aronson  > wrote:
> 
> My GEICO policy has a deductible and this:
>  
> We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs with depreciation applied to the 
> repair or replacement of the following items: inflatable dinghies, paint and 
> finishes protective covers, fabric or sails. Depreciation shall also apply to 
> outdrive units, outboard motors and gel coat beginning with the sixth year 
> from the year of manufacture, and to internal machinery beginning with the 
> eleventh year from the year of manufacture.
>  
> Joel
>  
>  
> 
> 
> Virus-free. www.avg.com 
> 
>  
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 6:59 AM, John and Maryann Read via CnC-List 
> > wrote:
> Have made inquiry to our agent on this point – will advise.  Seems a good 
> idea for all of us to do check on this
>  
> John and Maryann
> Legacy III
> 1982 C 34
> Noank, CT
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via 
> CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:33 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Randy Stafford; Keith Bridges; Keith Oulson; Judi Suarez; BoatUS
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat 
> U.S./Geico!
>  
> Thank you Bruce.  I have made the decision to switch from BoatUS to 
> Ameriprise/Progressive.
>  
> Cheers,
> Randy
>  
> On Feb 8, 2018, at 5:43 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
> > wrote:
>  
> Hello all,
>  
> 
> First, thanks to Eric for pointing out a CRITICAL provision in the new Boat 
> U.S. policies now issued by Geico. 
> 
>  
> 
> I read my new policy (which has only been in force since February 2nd) and 
> found the following provision:
>  
> 
> "We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs and replacements, in accordance 
> with quality marine repair practice, less depreciation (emphasis added).  
> Depreciation shall be calculated at 10% for each year beginning with the 20th 
> year from manufacture.  In all cases, there shall remain no less than 20% 
> residual value regardless of age."
>  
> 
> I then researched all the information provided 

Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

I had a toolbox full of snap-on tools stolen and Allstate tried to 
depreciate them. I argued that there could never be any depreciation on 
Snap-On tools because they had an unlimited lifetime exchange guarantee. 
I had presented Snap-on with screw drivers broken into 3 pieces and they 
handed me a new one. Even a little plating flaking off was enough to get 
a tool replaced with a brand new one. Allstate relented and paid me full 
replacement cost. It was almost $6000. That was in the late 1970's.



Bill Bina
On 2/9/2018 12:12 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:


So what about Progressive or Allstate?

Do either one of them do the “depreciating” BS? I can see depreciating 
sails and exterior canvas, but things like a pedestal? It is cast 
aluminum and should last 500 years without issue if no one breaks it 
or steals it.


Seems like a backdoor rate increase – you get less for your money L

Joe

Coquina

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*David via CnC-List

*Sent:* Friday, February 09, 2018 12:00 PM
*To:* Joel Aronson; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* David; John Christopher
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat 
U.S./Geico!


Yup...apparently BoatUS lost their shirt after the last round of 
hurricanes...boats over-insured etc.


David F. Risch

(401) 419-4650 (cell)




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Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

"Agreed value" applies in a total loss situation.  Its a ceiling, not a
floor.

Joel


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:21 PM, John Christopher via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> You could very well be right (being in Canada) for the last 10 years, but
> let’s keep an eye on what the fine print says on renewal forms as a trend.
>
>
> /J
>
> On Feb 9, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Marek Dziedzic 
> wrote:
>
> Isn’t one of the options the so called “agreed value” insurance? This is
> what I am using for over 10 years (both for the previous boat and this
> one). This way, the value does not depreciate over time. You agree on the
> value (in fact you call it, but they adjust the premium) and that’s it. Any
> additional costs (liability, salvage etc.) don’t depreciate, so it is not
> the issue.
>
> just my 2 (Canadian) cents
>
> Marek
> in Ottawa, ON
>
> *From:* John Christopher via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, February 9, 2018 11:57
> *To:* Joel Aronson
> *Cc:* John Christopher ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat
> U.S./Geico!
>
> Hi,
>
> Have been monitoring this thread from the Canadian north.
>
> A pattern to consider in relation to depreciation is, considering the
> hurricanes, storms, frequency, numbers, and perhaps where people store
> their boats for the winter (mainland or other).
>
> It comes to mind the insurers are also mitigating  their risk for the
> future. As a result they have devised a method that supports paying out far
> less than they do today due to the increased frequency of disasters.
>
> I don’t mean to stir the pot here, just an observation.
>
>
> /J
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

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Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

[John Christopher via CnC-List]

You could very well be right (being in Canada) for the last 10 years, but let’s 
keep an eye on what the fine print says on renewal forms as a trend.


/J

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:
> 
> Isn’t one of the options the so called “agreed value” insurance? This is what 
> I am using for over 10 years (both for the previous boat and this one). This 
> way, the value does not depreciate over time. You agree on the value (in fact 
> you call it, but they adjust the premium) and that’s it. Any additional costs 
> (liability, salvage etc.) don’t depreciate, so it is not the issue.
>  
> just my 2 (Canadian) cents
>  
> Marek
> in Ottawa, ON
>  
> From: John Christopher via CnC-List
> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 11:57
> To: Joel Aronson
> Cc: John Christopher ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat 
> U.S./Geico!
>  
> Hi,
>  
> Have been monitoring this thread from the Canadian north.
>  
> A pattern to consider in relation to depreciation is, considering the 
> hurricanes, storms, frequency, numbers, and perhaps where people store their 
> boats for the winter (mainland or other).
>  
> It comes to mind the insurers are also mitigating  their risk for the future. 
> As a result they have devised a method that supports paying out far less than 
> they do today due to the increased frequency of disasters.
>  
> I don’t mean to stir the pot here, just an observation.
> 
> 
> /J
> 
>  
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

Dennis,

I know. I should have displayed my sarcasm emoji….  ;-)

Anyway, I think y’all are doin' it wrong. To keep that beautiful clear gloss 
varnish on your woodwork you just need to spend $7,500.00 on a shed to stick 
your boats in for quite a few (many) sailing seasons.

See? Sarcasm! ;-)

Cheers,
Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 11:43 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Dave,
> 
> You're not an unwanted guest.  I actually agree with your opinion to some 
> degree.  I was walking piers one day and saw a Pearson 365 that belonged to a 
> local sailmaker.  The varnished teak toe rails looked amazing. I asked him 
> how many coats of varnish.  Answer: 23.
> 
> I varnished the teak grate in Touche's head a few years back.  Applied in 
> excess of 15 coats, probably more than 20.  Sanding between each coat.  It 
> looks really good.
> 
> Philosophically, I liken the Cetol vs varnish decision to that of Awlgrip vs 
> Awlcraft 2000.  Awlgrip is harder, probably looks better longer but is harder 
> to apply and repair.  
> 
> For me, the difference is in the sanding between coats.  If you want really 
> great varnish, you need to diligently sand between coats.  Cetol does not 
> require sanding between coats.  Apllying a filler to the bare teak prior to 
> varnish is another difference.
> 
> Interested in results and experiences with Awlwood.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> On Feb 9, 2018 9:11 AM, "Dave Godwin via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> Consider me the unwanted guest at the party on this thread but I won’t use 
> Cetol. A few reasons. Years ago I redid all the teak trim on my Mako 261. 
> Fortunately the teak was just aged out. No prior coating that I could 
> determine. I sanded to bright, applied base coats of light Cetol and then 
> several coats of their Gloss. It looked okay, but not nearly as nice as a 
> good varnish job. I figured I could live with that if the maintenance was 
> substantially less than varnish.
> 
> It didn’t turn out that way. Yes, the Cetol lasted a bit longer than varnish 
> but not enough to overcome the “look” that IMHO was not as smooth and deep as 
> varnish.
> 
> Although I haven’t subjected my exterior teak trim on “Ronin” to the outdoors 
> yet, everything that I have re-varnished, cabin sole included, has been done 
> with AwlWood. Just from an ease of application (5/6 coats versus 8-10 for 
> regular varnish) and the deep, clear look it is worth it. 
> 
> As an aside, I have a friend with a Tartan 37 who ponied up $4,000 last year 
> to have a professional crew redo all his exterior teak with Cetol. I watched 
> the process being done in the yard near my boat. It took every bit as much 
> time as a varnish job. Yesterday I was on his boat checking it out for him 
> and I was noting the quality of the finish. Very good but nowhere near as 
> nice as a well done varnish job.
> 
> And being the contrarian that I can be, next time I have to apply AwlWood, 
> I’ll spray.
> 
> Best,
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
> 
>> On Feb 9, 2018, at 9:10 AM, David via CnC-List > > wrote:
>> 
>> So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that for 
>> looks?   Hardness?  Both?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance.
>> 
>> David F. Risch
>> (401) 419-4650  (cell)
>> 
>> 
>> From: CnC-List > > on behalf of Dennis C. via CnC-List 
>> >
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
>> To: CnClist
>> Cc: Dennis C.
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak
>>  
>> I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled 
>> them every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap.
>> 
>> On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats 
>> Cetol Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in 
>> the Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.
>> 
>> I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and 
>> time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.
>> 
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>> 
>> On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List" > > wrote:
>> My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to refinish 
>> it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was wondering 
>> if anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking for 
>> recommendations.
>> 
>> Brien Sadler
>> S/V TAZ
>> C 35-3
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> 

Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Agreed value is for the entire boat. I am not sure that helps with dismasting 
or other non-total loses.



Joe Della Barba
Coquina


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2018 12:09 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Marek Dziedzic
Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

Isn’t one of the options the so called “agreed value” insurance? This is what I 
am using for over 10 years (both for the previous boat and this one). This way, 
the value does not depreciate over time. You agree on the value (in fact you 
call it, but they adjust the premium) and that’s it. Any additional costs 
(liability, salvage etc.) don’t depreciate, so it is not the issue.

just my 2 (Canadian) cents

Marek
in Ottawa, ON

From: John Christopher via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 11:57
To: Joel Aronson
Cc: John Christopher ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

Hi,

Have been monitoring this thread from the Canadian north.

A pattern to consider in relation to depreciation is, considering the 
hurricanes, storms, frequency, numbers, and perhaps where people store their 
boats for the winter (mainland or other).

It comes to mind the insurers are also mitigating  their risk for the future. 
As a result they have devised a method that supports paying out far less than 
they do today due to the increased frequency of disasters.

I don’t mean to stir the pot here, just an observation.

/J


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

So what about Progressive or Allstate?
Do either one of them do the "depreciating" BS? I can see depreciating sails 
and exterior canvas, but things like a pedestal? It is cast aluminum and should 
last 500 years without issue if no one breaks it or steals it.
Seems like a backdoor rate increase - you get less for your money :(
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David via 
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2018 12:00 PM
To: Joel Aronson; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: David; John Christopher
Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!


Yup...apparently BoatUS lost their shirt after the last round of 
hurricanes...boats over-insured etc.



David F. Risch

(401) 419-4650 (cell)


From: CnC-List 
> on behalf 
of John Christopher via CnC-List 
>
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 11:56 AM
To: Joel Aronson
Cc: John Christopher; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

Hi,

Have been monitoring this thread from the Canadian north.

A pattern to consider in relation to depreciation is, considering the 
hurricanes, storms, frequency, numbers, and perhaps where people store their 
boats for the winter (mainland or other).

It comes to mind the insurers are also mitigating  their risk for the future. 
As a result they have devised a method that supports paying out far less than 
they do today due to the increased frequency of disasters.

I don't mean to stir the pot here, just an observation.

/J

On Feb 9, 2018, at 11:30 AM, Joel Aronson 
> wrote:
My GEICO policy has a deductible and this:

We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs with depreciation applied to the 
repair or replacement of the following items: inflatable dinghies, paint and 
finishes protective covers, fabric or sails. Depreciation shall also apply to 
outdrive units, outboard motors and gel coat beginning with the sixth year from 
the year of manufacture, and to internal machinery beginning with the eleventh 
year from the year of manufacture.

Joel

[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png]

Virus-free. 
www.avg.com


On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 6:59 AM, John and Maryann Read via CnC-List 
> wrote:

Have made inquiry to our agent on this point - will advise.  Seems a good idea 
for all of us to do check on this



John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT



From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:33 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Randy Stafford; Keith Bridges; Keith Oulson; Judi Suarez; BoatUS
Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!



Thank you Bruce.  I have made the decision to switch from BoatUS to 
Ameriprise/Progressive.



Cheers,

Randy



On Feb 8, 2018, at 5:43 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
> wrote:



Hello all,



First, thanks to Eric for pointing out a CRITICAL provision in the new Boat 
U.S. policies now issued by Geico.



I read my new policy (which has only been in force since February 2nd) and 
found the following provision:



"We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs and replacements, in accordance 
with quality marine repair practice, less depreciation (emphasis added).  
Depreciation shall be calculated at 10% for each year beginning with the 20th 
year from manufacture.  In all cases, there shall remain no less than 20% 
residual value regardless of age."



I then researched all the information provided during the quoting process.  
This was not disclosed.  I then called Boat U.S., and they agreed they had not 
informed me of this provision, and then offered me (for an upcharge of $64), an 
endorsement that would take away the depreciation provision, but only for the 
hull, mast, spars, railings, but not much more.  They do 

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

I should add that I also refinished my dorade boxes and the cockpit seats with 
the same Allwood products, and they are beautiful and holding up well.  One 
significant difference is that I refinished these items in a better-controlled 
environment (my basement over the winter).  Undoubtedly human error.  

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2018 11:43 AM
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

Dave, 

You're not an unwanted guest.  I actually agree with your opinion to some 
degree.  I was walking piers one day and saw a Pearson 365 that belonged to a 
local sailmaker.  The varnished teak toe rails looked amazing. I asked him how 
many coats of varnish.  Answer: 23.

I varnished the teak grate in Touche's head a few years back.  Applied in 
excess of 15 coats, probably more than 20.  Sanding between each coat.  It 
looks really good.

Philosophically, I liken the Cetol vs varnish decision to that of Awlgrip vs 
Awlcraft 2000.  Awlgrip is harder, probably looks better longer but is harder 
to apply and repair.  

For me, the difference is in the sanding between coats.  If you want really 
great varnish, you need to diligently sand between coats.  Cetol does not 
require sanding between coats.  Apllying a filler to the bare teak prior to 
varnish is another difference.

Interested in results and experiences with Awlwood.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Feb 9, 2018 9:11 AM, "Dave Godwin via CnC-List"  
wrote:

  Consider me the unwanted guest at the party on this thread but I won’t use 
Cetol. A few reasons. Years ago I redid all the teak trim on my Mako 261. 
Fortunately the teak was just aged out. No prior coating that I could 
determine. I sanded to bright, applied base coats of light Cetol and then 
several coats of their Gloss. It looked okay, but not nearly as nice as a good 
varnish job. I figured I could live with that if the maintenance was 
substantially less than varnish. 

  It didn’t turn out that way. Yes, the Cetol lasted a bit longer than varnish 
but not enough to overcome the “look” that IMHO was not as smooth and deep as 
varnish.

  Although I haven’t subjected my exterior teak trim on “Ronin” to the outdoors 
yet, everything that I have re-varnished, cabin sole included, has been done 
with AwlWood. Just from an ease of application (5/6 coats versus 8-10 for 
regular varnish) and the deep, clear look it is worth it. 

  As an aside, I have a friend with a Tartan 37 who ponied up $4,000 last year 
to have a professional crew redo all his exterior teak with Cetol. I watched 
the process being done in the yard near my boat. It took every bit as much time 
as a varnish job. Yesterday I was on his boat checking it out for him and I was 
noting the quality of the finish. Very good but nowhere near as nice as a well 
done varnish job.

  And being the contrarian that I can be, next time I have to apply AwlWood, 
I’ll spray.

  Best, 
  Dave Godwin
  1982 C 37 - Ronin
  Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
  Ronin’s Overdue Refit


On Feb 9, 2018, at 9:10 AM, David via CnC-List  
wrote:

So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that for 
looks?   Hardness?  Both?

Thanks in advance.


David F. Risch

(401) 419-4650 (cell)







From: CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C. via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
To: CnClist
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak 

I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled 
them every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap. 

On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats 
Cetol Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in the 
Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.

I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and 
time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List" 
 wrote:

  My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to 
refinish it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was 
wondering if anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking for 
recommendations.

  Brien Sadler
  S/V TAZ
  C 35-3

  ___

  Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each 
and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  

Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Isn’t one of the options the so called “agreed value” insurance? This is what I 
am using for over 10 years (both for the previous boat and this one). This way, 
the value does not depreciate over time. You agree on the value (in fact you 
call it, but they adjust the premium) and that’s it. Any additional costs 
(liability, salvage etc.) don’t depreciate, so it is not the issue.

just my 2 (Canadian) cents

Marek
in Ottawa, ON

From: John Christopher via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 11:57
To: Joel Aronson
Cc: John Christopher ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

Hi,

Have been monitoring this thread from the Canadian north.

A pattern to consider in relation to depreciation is, considering the 
hurricanes, storms, frequency, numbers, and perhaps where people store their 
boats for the winter (mainland or other).

It comes to mind the insurers are also mitigating  their risk for the future. 
As a result they have devised a method that supports paying out far less than 
they do today due to the increased frequency of disasters.

I don’t mean to stir the pot here, just an observation.


/J


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak / sanding between coats

[William Hall via CnC-List]

This summer I discovered varnish in a spray can.  I decided to try it on my
grab rails. Two interesting differences from traditional varnish:

- Subsequent coats can be applied without sanding if done within an hour or
so.  You don't wait for it to dry completely.
- No brush marks

Has anyone else had experience with it? I thought it worked pretty well in
my test, and certainly liked the ability to get many coats done in a short
day. I look forward to seeing how it holds up over time.  It seems there
must be some downside to this!

Bill
Starfire
C 37
Ludington, MI


On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 11:43 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Dave,
>
> You're not an unwanted guest.  I actually agree with your opinion to some
> degree.  I was walking piers one day and saw a Pearson 365 that belonged to
> a local sailmaker.  The varnished teak toe rails looked amazing. I asked
> him how many coats of varnish.  Answer: 23.
>
> I varnished the teak grate in Touche's head a few years back.  Applied in
> excess of 15 coats, probably more than 20.  Sanding between each coat.  It
> looks really good.
>
> Philosophically, I liken the Cetol vs varnish decision to that of Awlgrip
> vs Awlcraft 2000.  Awlgrip is harder, probably looks better longer but is
> harder to apply and repair.
>
> For me, the difference is in the sanding between coats.  If you want
> really great varnish, you need to diligently sand between coats.  Cetol
> does not require sanding between coats.  Apllying a filler to the bare teak
> prior to varnish is another difference.
>
> Interested in results and experiences with Awlwood.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Feb 9, 2018 9:11 AM, "Dave Godwin via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> Consider me the unwanted guest at the party on this thread but I won’t
>> use Cetol. A few reasons. Years ago I redid all the teak trim on my Mako
>> 261. Fortunately the teak was just aged out. No prior coating that I could
>> determine. I sanded to bright, applied base coats of light Cetol and then
>> several coats of their Gloss. It looked okay, but not nearly as nice as a
>> good varnish job. I figured I could live with that if the maintenance was
>> substantially less than varnish.
>>
>> It didn’t turn out that way. Yes, the Cetol lasted a bit longer than
>> varnish but not enough to overcome the “look” that IMHO was not as smooth
>> and deep as varnish.
>>
>> Although I haven’t subjected my exterior teak trim on “Ronin” to the
>> outdoors yet, everything that I have re-varnished, cabin sole included, has
>> been done with AwlWood. Just from an ease of application (5/6 coats versus
>> 8-10 for regular varnish) and the deep, clear look it is worth it.
>>
>> As an aside, I have a friend with a Tartan 37 who ponied up $4,000 last
>> year to have a professional crew redo all his exterior teak with Cetol. I
>> watched the process being done in the yard near my boat. It took every bit
>> as much time as a varnish job. Yesterday I was on his boat checking it out
>> for him and I was noting the quality of the finish. Very good but nowhere
>> near as nice as a well done varnish job.
>>
>> And being the contrarian that I can be, next time I have to apply
>> AwlWood, I’ll spray.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dave Godwin
>> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
>> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
>> Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2018, at 9:10 AM, David via CnC-List 
>> wrote:
>>
>> So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that
>> for looks?   Hardness?  Both?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> David F. Risch
>> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C.
>> via CnC-List 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
>> *To:* CnClist
>> *Cc:* Dennis C.
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak
>>
>> I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously
>> oiled them every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap.
>>
>> On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats
>> Cetol Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in
>> the Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.
>>
>> I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money
>> and time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>>
>> On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List" <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to
>> refinish it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was
>> wondering if anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking
>> for recommendations.
>>
>> Brien Sadler
>> S/V TAZ
>> C 35-3
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for 

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Dennis — I did NOT do any sanding after the initial wood preparation; nothing 
between coats.  The first coat of AwlWood is a colored or clear primer coat; 
apply with a rag, and let dry for twenty-four hours.  The finish coats go on 
well with disposable foam brushes; thin coats, with a redcoat time of about two 
to four hours (maybe more with higher humidity).  I did ten coats on everything 
(six handrails and four Dorade boxes) over two days.

The finished results can be seen here: www.postaudio.net/webserver/IMG_1607.JPG

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 10:43 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> For me, the difference is in the sanding between coats.  If you want really 
> great varnish, you need to diligently sand between coats.  Cetol does not 
> require sanding between coats.  Apllying a filler to the bare teak prior to 
> varnish is another difference.
> 
> Interested in results and experiences with Awlwood.

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

To follow up on my earlier note, the Awlgrip product I used was Allwood MA 
J3890 Gloss, and the clear primer was J3809 (which adheres great to gel coat, 
by the way).  As I reported previously, I read about the Allwood product in the 
comments section of Practical Sailor.  As I recall, the writer was a sailor 
from Australia, who reported that he put five or six coats of the stuff on and 
it lasted 10 years.  Ten years sounded good to me, so I sanded off what was 
left of the old flaky varnish on my cockpit coaming (down to brown teak), 
prepped the surface and put on a coat of primer as per the instructions, and 
then put on five or six coats over a week or so. The work area was covered to 
prevent the sun from affecting the product (surface bubbling).  The finished 
product was beautiful (albeit a little slippery), and it looked great the 
entire summer.  Over the winter, however, the primer coat must have failed 
because little (pin-sized) air bubbles developed between the teak and the 
Allwood.  After all that work, I decided to live with the bubbles.

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2018 11:43 AM
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

Dave, 

You're not an unwanted guest.  I actually agree with your opinion to some 
degree.  I was walking piers one day and saw a Pearson 365 that belonged to a 
local sailmaker.  The varnished teak toe rails looked amazing. I asked him how 
many coats of varnish.  Answer: 23.

I varnished the teak grate in Touche's head a few years back.  Applied in 
excess of 15 coats, probably more than 20.  Sanding between each coat.  It 
looks really good.

Philosophically, I liken the Cetol vs varnish decision to that of Awlgrip vs 
Awlcraft 2000.  Awlgrip is harder, probably looks better longer but is harder 
to apply and repair.  

For me, the difference is in the sanding between coats.  If you want really 
great varnish, you need to diligently sand between coats.  Cetol does not 
require sanding between coats.  Apllying a filler to the bare teak prior to 
varnish is another difference.

Interested in results and experiences with Awlwood.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Feb 9, 2018 9:11 AM, "Dave Godwin via CnC-List"  
wrote:

  Consider me the unwanted guest at the party on this thread but I won’t use 
Cetol. A few reasons. Years ago I redid all the teak trim on my Mako 261. 
Fortunately the teak was just aged out. No prior coating that I could 
determine. I sanded to bright, applied base coats of light Cetol and then 
several coats of their Gloss. It looked okay, but not nearly as nice as a good 
varnish job. I figured I could live with that if the maintenance was 
substantially less than varnish. 

  It didn’t turn out that way. Yes, the Cetol lasted a bit longer than varnish 
but not enough to overcome the “look” that IMHO was not as smooth and deep as 
varnish.

  Although I haven’t subjected my exterior teak trim on “Ronin” to the outdoors 
yet, everything that I have re-varnished, cabin sole included, has been done 
with AwlWood. Just from an ease of application (5/6 coats versus 8-10 for 
regular varnish) and the deep, clear look it is worth it. 

  As an aside, I have a friend with a Tartan 37 who ponied up $4,000 last year 
to have a professional crew redo all his exterior teak with Cetol. I watched 
the process being done in the yard near my boat. It took every bit as much time 
as a varnish job. Yesterday I was on his boat checking it out for him and I was 
noting the quality of the finish. Very good but nowhere near as nice as a well 
done varnish job.

  And being the contrarian that I can be, next time I have to apply AwlWood, 
I’ll spray.

  Best, 
  Dave Godwin
  1982 C 37 - Ronin
  Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
  Ronin’s Overdue Refit


On Feb 9, 2018, at 9:10 AM, David via CnC-List  
wrote:

So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that for 
looks?   Hardness?  Both?

Thanks in advance.


David F. Risch

(401) 419-4650 (cell)







From: CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C. via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
To: CnClist
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak 

I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled 
them every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap. 

On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats 
Cetol Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in the 
Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.

I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and 
time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Feb 7, 2018 

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

The combination Dennis suggested, Cetol® Marine Natural Teak ( *not* Cetol®
Marine or Cetol® Marine Light ), topped with Cetol® Marine Gloss does look
very good.

I've never been fond of the colour ( or look ) of Cetol® Marine or Cetol®
Marine Light.  The Cetol® Marine Natural Teak does look very good on teak.

Varnish, properly applied does look even better but does not last as long
in my experience.  I've never laid down 23 coats though...

Ken H.

On 9 February 2018 at 12:43, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Dave,
>
> You're not an unwanted guest.  I actually agree with your opinion to some
> degree.  I was walking piers one day and saw a Pearson 365 that belonged to
> a local sailmaker.  The varnished teak toe rails looked amazing. I asked
> him how many coats of varnish.  Answer: 23.
>
> I varnished the teak grate in Touche's head a few years back.  Applied in
> excess of 15 coats, probably more than 20.  Sanding between each coat.  It
> looks really good.
>
> Philosophically, I liken the Cetol vs varnish decision to that of Awlgrip
> vs Awlcraft 2000.  Awlgrip is harder, probably looks better longer but is
> harder to apply and repair.
>
> For me, the difference is in the sanding between coats.  If you want
> really great varnish, you need to diligently sand between coats.  Cetol
> does not require sanding between coats.  Apllying a filler to the bare teak
> prior to varnish is another difference.
>
> Interested in results and experiences with Awlwood.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Feb 9, 2018 9:11 AM, "Dave Godwin via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> Consider me the unwanted guest at the party on this thread but I won’t
>> use Cetol. A few reasons. Years ago I redid all the teak trim on my Mako
>> 261. Fortunately the teak was just aged out. No prior coating that I could
>> determine. I sanded to bright, applied base coats of light Cetol and then
>> several coats of their Gloss. It looked okay, but not nearly as nice as a
>> good varnish job. I figured I could live with that if the maintenance was
>> substantially less than varnish.
>>
>> It didn’t turn out that way. Yes, the Cetol lasted a bit longer than
>> varnish but not enough to overcome the “look” that IMHO was not as smooth
>> and deep as varnish.
>>
>> Although I haven’t subjected my exterior teak trim on “Ronin” to the
>> outdoors yet, everything that I have re-varnished, cabin sole included, has
>> been done with AwlWood. Just from an ease of application (5/6 coats versus
>> 8-10 for regular varnish) and the deep, clear look it is worth it.
>>
>> As an aside, I have a friend with a Tartan 37 who ponied up $4,000 last
>> year to have a professional crew redo all his exterior teak with Cetol. I
>> watched the process being done in the yard near my boat. It took every bit
>> as much time as a varnish job. Yesterday I was on his boat checking it out
>> for him and I was noting the quality of the finish. Very good but nowhere
>> near as nice as a well done varnish job.
>>
>> And being the contrarian that I can be, next time I have to apply
>> AwlWood, I’ll spray.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dave Godwin
>> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
>> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
>> Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2018, at 9:10 AM, David via CnC-List 
>> wrote:
>>
>> So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that
>> for looks?   Hardness?  Both?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> David F. Risch
>> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C.
>> via CnC-List 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
>> *To:* CnClist
>> *Cc:* Dennis C.
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak
>>
>> I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously
>> oiled them every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap.
>>
>> On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats
>> Cetol Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in
>> the Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.
>>
>> I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money
>> and time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>>
>> On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List" <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to
>> refinish it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was
>> wondering if anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking
>> for recommendations.
>>
>> Brien Sadler
>> S/V TAZ
>> C 35-3
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> 

Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

[David via CnC-List]

Yup...apparently BoatUS lost their shirt after the last round of 
hurricanes...boats over-insured etc.


David F. Risch

(401) 419-4650 (cell)



From: CnC-List  on behalf of John Christopher 
via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 11:56 AM
To: Joel Aronson
Cc: John Christopher; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

Hi,

Have been monitoring this thread from the Canadian north.

A pattern to consider in relation to depreciation is, considering the 
hurricanes, storms, frequency, numbers, and perhaps where people store their 
boats for the winter (mainland or other).

It comes to mind the insurers are also mitigating  their risk for the future. 
As a result they have devised a method that supports paying out far less than 
they do today due to the increased frequency of disasters.

I don’t mean to stir the pot here, just an observation.


/J

On Feb 9, 2018, at 11:30 AM, Joel Aronson 
> wrote:

My GEICO policy has a deductible and this:

We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs with depreciation applied to the 
repair or replacement of the following items: inflatable dinghies, paint and 
finishes protective covers, fabric or sails. Depreciation shall also apply to 
outdrive units, outboard motors and gel coat beginning with the sixth year from 
the year of manufacture, and to internal machinery beginning with the eleventh 
year from the year of manufacture.

Joel

[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png]
Virus-free. 
www.avg.com

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 6:59 AM, John and Maryann Read via CnC-List 
> wrote:

Have made inquiry to our agent on this point – will advise.  Seems a good idea 
for all of us to do check on this



John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT



From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Randy Stafford via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:33 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Randy Stafford; Keith Bridges; Keith Oulson; Judi Suarez; BoatUS
Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!



Thank you Bruce.  I have made the decision to switch from BoatUS to 
Ameriprise/Progressive.



Cheers,

Randy



On Feb 8, 2018, at 5:43 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
> wrote:



Hello all,



First, thanks to Eric for pointing out a CRITICAL provision in the new Boat 
U.S. policies now issued by Geico.




I read my new policy (which has only been in force since February 2nd) and 
found the following provision:



"We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs and replacements, in accordance 
with quality marine repair practice, less depreciation (emphasis added).  
Depreciation shall be calculated at 10% for each year beginning with the 20th 
year from manufacture.  In all cases, there shall remain no less than 20% 
residual value regardless of age."



I then researched all the information provided during the quoting process.  
This was not disclosed.  I then called Boat U.S., and they agreed they had not 
informed me of this provision, and then offered me (for an upcharge of $64), an 
endorsement that would take away the depreciation provision, but only for the 
hull, mast, spars, railings, but not much more.  They do not normally offer 
this endorsement unless the boat is less than 10 years old (So what's the value 
in that?).  In my mind, that endorsement is worthless - just think about that 
nice $2,000 chart plotter that gets fried by lightning...




For a 1994 boat like mine, that means a partial loss would have only resulted 
in recovery of 60% after the $1,200 deductible, and for my last boat, (a 1977) 
only 20%.  For that kind of coverage on my old boat, I'd just go bare!  The 
policy I had in place until last week was slightly more expensive. but does not 
include a depreciation provision of that magnitude.




I am immediately urging all folks I know to immediately shop their coverage and 
move it to a company 

Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

[John Christopher via CnC-List]

Hi,

Have been monitoring this thread from the Canadian north.

A pattern to consider in relation to depreciation is, considering the 
hurricanes, storms, frequency, numbers, and perhaps where people store their 
boats for the winter (mainland or other). 

It comes to mind the insurers are also mitigating  their risk for the future. 
As a result they have devised a method that supports paying out far less than 
they do today due to the increased frequency of disasters.

I don’t mean to stir the pot here, just an observation.


/J

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 11:30 AM, Joel Aronson  wrote:
> 
> My GEICO policy has a deductible and this:
> 
> We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs with depreciation applied to the 
> repair or replacement of the following items: inflatable dinghies, paint and 
> finishes protective covers, fabric or sails. Depreciation shall also apply to 
> outdrive units, outboard motors and gel coat beginning with the sixth year 
> from the year of manufacture, and to internal machinery beginning with the 
> eleventh year from the year of manufacture. 
> 
> Joel
> 
>   Virus-free. www.avg.com
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 6:59 AM, John and Maryann Read via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Have made inquiry to our agent on this point – will advise.  Seems a good 
>> idea for all of us to do check on this
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> John and Maryann
>> 
>> Legacy III
>> 
>> 1982 C 34
>> 
>> Noank, CT
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
>> Stafford via CnC-List
>> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:33 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Randy Stafford; Keith Bridges; Keith Oulson; Judi Suarez; BoatUS
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat 
>> U.S./Geico!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thank you Bruce.  I have made the decision to switch from BoatUS to 
>> Ameriprise/Progressive.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Randy
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Feb 8, 2018, at 5:43 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> First, thanks to Eric for pointing out a CRITICAL provision in the new Boat 
>> U.S. policies now issued by Geico.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I read my new policy (which has only been in force since February 2nd) and 
>> found the following provision:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs and replacements, in accordance 
>> with quality marine repair practice, less depreciation (emphasis added).  
>> Depreciation shall be calculated at 10% for each year beginning with the 
>> 20th year from manufacture.  In all cases, there shall remain no less than 
>> 20% residual value regardless of age."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I then researched all the information provided during the quoting process.  
>> This was not disclosed.  I then called Boat U.S., and they agreed they had 
>> not informed me of this provision, and then offered me (for an upcharge of 
>> $64), an endorsement that would take away the depreciation provision, but 
>> only for the hull, mast, spars, railings, but not much more.  They do not 
>> normally offer this endorsement unless the boat is less than 10 years old 
>> (So what's the value in that?).  In my mind, that endorsement is worthless - 
>> just think about that nice $2,000 chart plotter that gets fried by 
>> lightning...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For a 1994 boat like mine, that means a partial loss would have only 
>> resulted in recovery of 60% after the $1,200 deductible, and for my last 
>> boat, (a 1977) only 20%.  For that kind of coverage on my old boat, I'd just 
>> go bare!  The policy I had in place until last week was slightly more 
>> expensive. but does not include a depreciation provision of that magnitude.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I am immediately urging all folks I know to immediately shop their coverage 
>> and move it to a company that does not apply depreciation as soon as 
>> possible. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 1).  I am embarrassed to have to admit that as a person with 30+ years in 
>> the insurance industry, I had not read my policy.
>> 
>> 2).  The person I spoke with on the phone confirmed that this was not a 
>> provision of the prior CNA policies issued through Boat U.S.
>> 
>> 
>> 3). I consider this bad faith on the part of the insurer and the licensed 
>> brokers at Boat U.S.  I intend to file a formal complaint with the Florida 
>> Department of Insurance accordingly.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This is exactly the kind of thing that would get me involved in an Errors & 
>> Omissions claim if I did this to a client, and I made that abundantly clear 
>> to the person I was talking to at Boat U.S.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I will also post this on other boards.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Bruce Whitmore
>> 1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"  
>> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
>> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your 

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Dave,

You're not an unwanted guest.  I actually agree with your opinion to some
degree.  I was walking piers one day and saw a Pearson 365 that belonged to
a local sailmaker.  The varnished teak toe rails looked amazing. I asked
him how many coats of varnish.  Answer: 23.

I varnished the teak grate in Touche's head a few years back.  Applied in
excess of 15 coats, probably more than 20.  Sanding between each coat.  It
looks really good.

Philosophically, I liken the Cetol vs varnish decision to that of Awlgrip
vs Awlcraft 2000.  Awlgrip is harder, probably looks better longer but is
harder to apply and repair.

For me, the difference is in the sanding between coats.  If you want really
great varnish, you need to diligently sand between coats.  Cetol does not
require sanding between coats.  Apllying a filler to the bare teak prior to
varnish is another difference.

Interested in results and experiences with Awlwood.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Feb 9, 2018 9:11 AM, "Dave Godwin via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Consider me the unwanted guest at the party on this thread but I won’t use
> Cetol. A few reasons. Years ago I redid all the teak trim on my Mako 261.
> Fortunately the teak was just aged out. No prior coating that I could
> determine. I sanded to bright, applied base coats of light Cetol and then
> several coats of their Gloss. It looked okay, but not nearly as nice as a
> good varnish job. I figured I could live with that if the maintenance was
> substantially less than varnish.
>
> It didn’t turn out that way. Yes, the Cetol lasted a bit longer than
> varnish but not enough to overcome the “look” that IMHO was not as smooth
> and deep as varnish.
>
> Although I haven’t subjected my exterior teak trim on “Ronin” to the
> outdoors yet, everything that I have re-varnished, cabin sole included, has
> been done with AwlWood. Just from an ease of application (5/6 coats versus
> 8-10 for regular varnish) and the deep, clear look it is worth it.
>
> As an aside, I have a friend with a Tartan 37 who ponied up $4,000 last
> year to have a professional crew redo all his exterior teak with Cetol. I
> watched the process being done in the yard near my boat. It took every bit
> as much time as a varnish job. Yesterday I was on his boat checking it out
> for him and I was noting the quality of the finish. Very good but nowhere
> near as nice as a well done varnish job.
>
> And being the contrarian that I can be, next time I have to apply AwlWood,
> I’ll spray.
>
> Best,
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
>
> On Feb 9, 2018, at 9:10 AM, David via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that
> for looks?   Hardness?  Both?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
>
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C.
> via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
> *To:* CnClist
> *Cc:* Dennis C.
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak
>
> I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled
> them every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap.
>
> On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats
> Cetol Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in
> the Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.
>
> I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and
> time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to
> refinish it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was
> wondering if anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking
> for recommendations.
>
> Brien Sadler
> S/V TAZ
> C 35-3
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks 

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

Accepting Bitcoins?  ;-)

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 11:26 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Send Dennis money.  Send Dennis money.
> 
> (Let's see if this works again.)
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> 
> On Feb 9, 2018 8:19 AM, "bushmark4--- via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> 
> "I did it because Dennis said so. :)"  
> 
> Amen, that's the very essence of this list!  I love it...
> 
> Richard
> s/v Bushmark4; 1985 C 37 CB: Ohio River
> 
> Richard N. Bush  
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
> 502-584-7255 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Randy Stafford via CnC-List  >
> To: cnc-list >
> Cc: Randy Stafford  >
> Sent: Fri, Feb 9, 2018 9:57 am
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak
> 
> I did it because Dennis said so. :)
> 
> Cheers,
> Randy
> 
> On Feb 9, 2018, at 7:10 AM, David via CnC-List  > wrote:
> 
> So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that for 
> looks?   Hardness?  Both?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Careful, you’re shouldering into Stu’s territory…   :^)

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 10:26 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Send Dennis money.  Send Dennis money.
> 
> (Let's see if this works again.)
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

My GEICO policy has a deductible and this:

We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs with depreciation applied to the
repair or replacement of the following items: inflatable dinghies, paint
and finishes protective covers, fabric or sails. Depreciation shall also
apply to outdrive units, outboard motors and gel coat beginning with the
sixth year from the year of manufacture, and to internal machinery
beginning with the eleventh year from the year of manufacture.

Joel


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 6:59 AM, John and Maryann Read via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Have made inquiry to our agent on this point – will advise.  Seems a good
> idea for all of us to do check on this
>
>
>
> John and Maryann
>
> Legacy III
>
> 1982 C 34
>
> Noank, CT
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Randy
> Stafford via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:33 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Randy Stafford; Keith Bridges; Keith Oulson; Judi Suarez; BoatUS
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat
> U.S./Geico!
>
>
>
> Thank you Bruce.  I have made the decision to switch from BoatUS to
> Ameriprise/Progressive.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Randy
>
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2018, at 5:43 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> First, thanks to Eric for pointing out a CRITICAL provision in the new
> Boat U.S. policies now issued by Geico.
>
>
>
> I read my new policy (which has only been in force since February 2nd) and
> found the following provision:
>
>
>
> "We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs and replacements, in
> accordance with quality marine repair practice, *less depreciation*
> (emphasis added).  Depreciation shall be calculated at 10% for each year
> beginning with the 20th year from manufacture.  In all cases, there shall
> remain no less than 20% residual value regardless of age."
>
>
>
> I then researched all the information provided during the quoting
> process.  This was *not* disclosed.  I then called Boat U.S., and they
> agreed they had not informed me of this provision, and then offered me (for
> an upcharge of $64), an endorsement that would take away the depreciation
> provision, but *only* for the hull, mast, spars, railings, but not much
> more.  They do not normally offer this endorsement unless the boat is less
> than 10 years old (So what's the value in that?).  In my mind, that
> endorsement is worthless - just think about that nice $2,000 chart plotter
> that gets fried by lightning...
>
>
>
> For a 1994 boat like mine, that means a partial loss would have only
> resulted in recovery of 60% after the $1,200 deductible, and for my last
> boat, (a 1977) only 20%.  For that kind of coverage on my old boat, I'd
> just go bare!  The policy I had in place until last week was slightly more
> expensive. but does not include a depreciation provision of that
> magnitude.
>
>
>
> I am immediately urging all folks I know to immediately shop their
> coverage and move it to a company that does not apply depreciation as soon
> as possible.
>
>
>
> 1).  I am embarrassed to have to admit that as a person with 30+ years in
> the insurance industry, I had not read my policy.
>
> 2).  The person I spoke with on the phone confirmed that this was *not* a
> provision of the prior CNA policies issued through Boat U.S.
>
> 3). I consider this bad faith on the part of the insurer and the licensed
> brokers at Boat U.S.  I intend to file a formal complaint with the Florida
> Department of Insurance accordingly.
>
>
>
> This is exactly the kind of thing that would get me involved in an Errors
> & Omissions claim if I did this to a client, and I made that abundantly
> clear to the person I was talking to at Boat U.S.
>
>
>
> I will also post this on other boards.
>
>
>
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Send Dennis money.  Send Dennis money.

(Let's see if this works again.)

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


On Feb 9, 2018 8:19 AM, "bushmark4--- via CnC-List" 
wrote:


"I did it because Dennis said so. :)"

Amen, that's the very essence of this list!  I love it...

Richard
s/v Bushmark4; 1985 C 37 CB: Ohio River

Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255 <(502)%20584-7255>


-Original Message-
From: Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Randy Stafford 
Sent: Fri, Feb 9, 2018 9:57 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

I did it because Dennis said so. :)

Cheers,
Randy

On Feb 9, 2018, at 7:10 AM, David via CnC-List 
wrote:

So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that for
looks?   Hardness?  Both?
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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

David,

I'm also a former Cetol user.  I switched to Schooner Gold.  I was not
happy with how quickly it broke down, so I switched to Epiphanes Rapid
Clear and RapidCoat.
  Just as easy as Cetol, but I like the look better and it seems more
durable than the Schooner.  I'm going to try sealing new teak with
penetrating epoxy so that the varnish is only protecting the epoxy, not the
wood.

Joel


Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 11:10 AM, Dave Godwin via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Consider me the unwanted guest at the party on this thread but I won’t use
> Cetol. A few reasons. Years ago I redid all the teak trim on my Mako 261.
> Fortunately the teak was just aged out. No prior coating that I could
> determine. I sanded to bright, applied base coats of light Cetol and then
> several coats of their Gloss. It looked okay, but not nearly as nice as a
> good varnish job. I figured I could live with that if the maintenance was
> substantially less than varnish.
>
> It didn’t turn out that way. Yes, the Cetol lasted a bit longer than
> varnish but not enough to overcome the “look” that IMHO was not as smooth
> and deep as varnish.
>
> Although I haven’t subjected my exterior teak trim on “Ronin” to the
> outdoors yet, everything that I have re-varnished, cabin sole included, has
> been done with AwlWood. Just from an ease of application (5/6 coats versus
> 8-10 for regular varnish) and the deep, clear look it is worth it.
>
> As an aside, I have a friend with a Tartan 37 who ponied up $4,000 last
> year to have a professional crew redo all his exterior teak with Cetol. I
> watched the process being done in the yard near my boat. It took every bit
> as much time as a varnish job. Yesterday I was on his boat checking it out
> for him and I was noting the quality of the finish. Very good but nowhere
> near as nice as a well done varnish job.
>
> And being the contrarian that I can be, next time I have to apply AwlWood,
> I’ll spray.
>
> Best,
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
>
> On Feb 9, 2018, at 9:10 AM, David via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that
> for looks?   Hardness?  Both?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
>
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C.
> via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
> *To:* CnClist
> *Cc:* Dennis C.
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak
>
> I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled
> them every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap.
>
> On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats
> Cetol Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in
> the Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.
>
> I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and
> time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to
> refinish it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was
> wondering if anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking
> for recommendations.
>
> Brien Sadler
> S/V TAZ
> C 35-3
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

Thanks everyone 

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

My experience with AwlWood so far has been good, as well.  I have some small 
repairs to do to the forward handrails this spring, so will be able to report 
back on that process; but after a couple of seasons, the handrails and Dorade 
boxes look like they did when they left my garage after refinishing.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 10:10 AM, Dave Godwin via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Consider me the unwanted guest at the party on this thread but I won’t use 
> Cetol. A few reasons. Years ago I redid all the teak trim on my Mako 261. 
> Fortunately the teak was just aged out. No prior coating that I could 
> determine. I sanded to bright, applied base coats of light Cetol and then 
> several coats of their Gloss. It looked okay, but not nearly as nice as a 
> good varnish job. I figured I could live with that if the maintenance was 
> substantially less than varnish.
> 
> It didn’t turn out that way. Yes, the Cetol lasted a bit longer than varnish 
> but not enough to overcome the “look” that IMHO was not as smooth and deep as 
> varnish.
> 
> Although I haven’t subjected my exterior teak trim on “Ronin” to the outdoors 
> yet, everything that I have re-varnished, cabin sole included, has been done 
> with AwlWood. Just from an ease of application (5/6 coats versus 8-10 for 
> regular varnish) and the deep, clear look it is worth it. 
> 
> As an aside, I have a friend with a Tartan 37 who ponied up $4,000 last year 
> to have a professional crew redo all his exterior teak with Cetol. I watched 
> the process being done in the yard near my boat. It took every bit as much 
> time as a varnish job. Yesterday I was on his boat checking it out for him 
> and I was noting the quality of the finish. Very good but nowhere near as 
> nice as a well done varnish job.
> 
> And being the contrarian that I can be, next time I have to apply AwlWood, 
> I’ll spray.
> 
> Best,
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> Ronin’s Overdue Refit 

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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

Consider me the unwanted guest at the party on this thread but I won’t use 
Cetol. A few reasons. Years ago I redid all the teak trim on my Mako 261. 
Fortunately the teak was just aged out. No prior coating that I could 
determine. I sanded to bright, applied base coats of light Cetol and then 
several coats of their Gloss. It looked okay, but not nearly as nice as a good 
varnish job. I figured I could live with that if the maintenance was 
substantially less than varnish.

It didn’t turn out that way. Yes, the Cetol lasted a bit longer than varnish 
but not enough to overcome the “look” that IMHO was not as smooth and deep as 
varnish.

Although I haven’t subjected my exterior teak trim on “Ronin” to the outdoors 
yet, everything that I have re-varnished, cabin sole included, has been done 
with AwlWood. Just from an ease of application (5/6 coats versus 8-10 for 
regular varnish) and the deep, clear look it is worth it. 

As an aside, I have a friend with a Tartan 37 who ponied up $4,000 last year to 
have a professional crew redo all his exterior teak with Cetol. I watched the 
process being done in the yard near my boat. It took every bit as much time as 
a varnish job. Yesterday I was on his boat checking it out for him and I was 
noting the quality of the finish. Very good but nowhere near as nice as a well 
done varnish job.

And being the contrarian that I can be, next time I have to apply AwlWood, I’ll 
spray.

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 9:10 AM, David via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that for 
> looks?   Hardness?  Both?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
> 
> 
> From: CnC-List  > on behalf of Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> >
> Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
> To: CnClist
> Cc: Dennis C.
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak
>  
> I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled 
> them every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap.
> 
> On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats 
> Cetol Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in the 
> Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.
> 
> I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and 
> time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to refinish 
> it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was wondering if 
> anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking for 
> recommendations.
> 
> Brien Sadler
> S/V TAZ
> C 35-3
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[bushmark4--- via CnC-List]

 
"I did it because Dennis said so. :)"  

Amen, that's the very essence of this list!  I love it...

 


Richard
s/v Bushmark4; 1985 C 37 CB: Ohio River

Richard N. Bush  
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Randy Stafford 
Sent: Fri, Feb 9, 2018 9:57 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak


I did it because Dennis said so. :)


Cheers,
Randy



On Feb 9, 2018, at 7:10 AM, David via CnC-List  wrote:



So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that for 
looks?   Hardness?  Both?


Thanks in advance.




David F. Risch

(401) 419-4650 (cell)





From: CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C. via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
To: CnClist
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak
 

I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled them 
every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap.


On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats Cetol 
Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in the 
Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.


I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and 
time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.


Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA



On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List"  
wrote:


My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to refinish 
it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was wondering if 
anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking for 
recommendations.


Brien Sadler
S/V TAZ
C 35-3 

___

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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray






___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray






___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I did it because Dennis said so. :)

Cheers,
Randy

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 7:10 AM, David via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that for 
> looks?   Hardness?  Both?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> David F. Risch
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
> 
> 
> From: CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C. via 
> CnC-List 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
> To: CnClist
> Cc: Dennis C.
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak
>  
> I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled 
> them every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap.
> 
> On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats 
> Cetol Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in the 
> Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.
> 
> I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and 
> time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List"  > wrote:
> My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to refinish 
> it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was wondering if 
> anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking for 
> recommendations.
> 
> Brien Sadler
> S/V TAZ
> C 35-3
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Both.

I used to apply a maintenance coat of just Cetol twice a year.  Worked OK.
Switched to a maintenance coat of Cetol Gloss twice a year.  Like the look
better.  Longevity seems to be better also.

Remember, preparation is critical.  Sand teak to bare wood, wipe off
surface oils with acetone and quickly apply first coat.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Feb 9, 2018 7:11 AM, "David via CnC-List"  wrote:

> So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that
> for looks?   Hardness?  Both?
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> David F. Risch
>
> (401) 419-4650 (cell)
>
>
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C.
> via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
> *To:* CnClist
> *Cc:* Dennis C.
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak
>
> I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled
> them every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap.
>
> On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats
> Cetol Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in
> the Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.
>
> I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and
> time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to
> refinish it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was
> wondering if anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking
> for recommendations.
>
> Brien Sadler
> S/V TAZ
> C 35-3
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

[David via CnC-List]

So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that for 
looks?   Hardness?  Both?


Thanks in advance.


David F. Risch

(401) 419-4650 (cell)



From: CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C. via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
To: CnClist
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak

I used teak oil on the toe rails of my previous boat.  I religiously oiled them 
every few months.  After a few months, they looked like crap.

On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats Cetol 
Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in the 
Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.

I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and 
time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to refinish 
it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was wondering if 
anyone has just used teak oil on their exterior wood. Looking for 
recommendations.

Brien Sadler
S/V TAZ
C 35-3

___

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to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


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Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak (John and Maryann Read)

[Brien Sadler via CnC-List]

John and Maryann,

We love here as well and the previous owners were very helpful. They are
great people. We are at Thames Yacht Club during the summer and still up at
Midway in the winter.

Brien Sadler
S/V TAZ
1987 C 35-3
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Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

Have made inquiry to our agent on this point - will advise.  Seems a good
idea for all of us to do check on this

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Stafford via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:33 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Randy Stafford; Keith Bridges; Keith Oulson; Judi Suarez; BoatUS
Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat
U.S./Geico!

 

Thank you Bruce.  I have made the decision to switch from BoatUS to
Ameriprise/Progressive.

 

Cheers,

Randy

 

On Feb 8, 2018, at 5:43 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List
 wrote:

 

Hello all,





First, thanks to Eric for pointing out a CRITICAL provision in the new Boat
U.S. policies now issued by Geico.  







I read my new policy (which has only been in force since February 2nd) and
found the following provision:





"We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs and replacements, in accordance
with quality marine repair practice, less depreciation (emphasis added).
Depreciation shall be calculated at 10% for each year beginning with the
20th year from manufacture.  In all cases, there shall remain no less than
20% residual value regardless of age."





I then researched all the information provided during the quoting process.
This was not disclosed.  I then called Boat U.S., and they agreed they had
not informed me of this provision, and then offered me (for an upcharge of
$64), an endorsement that would take away the depreciation provision, but
only for the hull, mast, spars, railings, but not much more.  They do not
normally offer this endorsement unless the boat is less than 10 years old
(So what's the value in that?).  In my mind, that endorsement is worthless -
just think about that nice $2,000 chart plotter that gets fried by
lightning...







For a 1994 boat like mine, that means a partial loss would have only
resulted in recovery of 60% after the $1,200 deductible, and for my last
boat, (a 1977) only 20%.  For that kind of coverage on my old boat, I'd just
go bare!  The policy I had in place until last week was slightly more
expensive. but does not include a depreciation provision of that magnitude.








I am immediately urging all folks I know to immediately shop their coverage
and move it to a company that does not apply depreciation as soon as
possible. 







1).  I am embarrassed to have to admit that as a person with 30+ years in
the insurance industry, I had not read my policy.

2).  The person I spoke with on the phone confirmed that this was not a
provision of the prior CNA policies issued through Boat U.S.



3). I consider this bad faith on the part of the insurer and the licensed
brokers at Boat U.S.  I intend to file a formal complaint with the Florida
Department of Insurance accordingly.





This is exactly the kind of thing that would get me involved in an Errors &
Omissions claim if I did this to a client, and I made that abundantly clear
to the person I was talking to at Boat U.S.







I will also post this on other boards.

 

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"  
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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