Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 7:04:14 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 5/13/2019 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > It is Bruce who accuses Platonism of being a failure, even though he > > is not able to name any point where physicalism succeeds and Platonism > > fails. It goes without saying

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 6:55:03 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: The physical model that says consciousness is the brain processing > information by neuron's firing at synapses...a very successful model. > > Brent > I completely missed the news of that success, explicitly stating: "a very

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 12:07 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:34 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 6:08 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:30 PM Bruce Kellett < >>> bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>> From: Jason Resch

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:34 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 6:08 AM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:30 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> From: Jason Resch >>> >>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 12:26 AM Bruce Kellett < >>> bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>>

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On 5/13/2019 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: It is Bruce who accuses Platonism of being a failure, even though he is not able to name any point where physicalism succeeds and Platonism fails. It goes without saying that all of modern science is compatible with Platonism. Because Platonism

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 9:55 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 5/13/2019 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > 3) Or maybe it's "what the brain does", as many physicalists like to say. > My body as mass, because the atoms that make up my body amount

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On 5/13/2019 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: 3) Or maybe it's "what the brain does", as many physicalists like to say. My body as mass, because the atoms that make up my body amount to that mass. What amounts to my consciousness? What are the building blocks? There is no accounting, there is

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 9:19 AM Telmo Menezes wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2019, at 22:36, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: > > On 5/13/2019 6:11 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > Physicalism fails to account for consciousness. This is the worst possible > failure I can imagine, given that

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Mon, May 13, 2019, at 22:36, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: > > > On 5/13/2019 6:11 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> >> >> On 13. May 2019, at 05:19, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >>> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 2:00 PM Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:52 PM Bruce

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 1:50 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 7:45 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> >> I am not sure I have the time to delve into Muller's paper to find out >> his reasons. He is clearly misguided, because there are many viable >> cosmological theories that do not

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 6:08 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:30 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch >> >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 12:26 AM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> From: Jason Resch >>> >> >> >>> To clarify, let me enumerate stages of the argument such

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 4:36:18 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 5/13/2019 6:11 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > Physicalism fails to account for consciousness. This is the worst possible > failure I can imagine, given that consciousness is the only thing I can be > certain to exist. > > > I

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On 5/13/2019 8:50 AM, Jason Resch wrote: But then what is arithmetical truth? We have no label for it. It cannot be derived from or defined by labels. And it depends on the model.  Which is why it's undefinable within the system.  And also why it's not the same as the "true" in "It is true

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On 5/13/2019 6:11 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On 13. May 2019, at 05:19, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 2:00 PM Jason Resch > wrote: On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:52 PM Bruce Kellett

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 2:28 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 5/13/2019 4:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 10 May 2019, at 17:36, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 1:02 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < >

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 6:08 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 9 May 2019, at 20:47, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 12:06 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On 5/9/2019 3:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 3 May

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:30 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 12:26 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch >> > > >> To clarify, let me enumerate stages of the argument such that we can be >> clear which one we are speaking of: >> >> 1. Your

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On 5/13/2019 4:54 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 May 2019, at 01:07, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 5/10/2019 8:17 AM, Jason Resch wrote: If the theory is to make any sense, any reference to "the universe" must be

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On 5/13/2019 4:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 10 May 2019, at 17:36, Jason Resch > wrote: On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 1:02 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 5/9/2019 7:58 PM, Jason Resch wrote:

Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 1:23:22 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 11 May 2019, at 08:13, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > https://aeon.co/ideas/how-the-dualism-of-descartes-ruined-our-mental-health >

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On 5/13/2019 4:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: We must assume the existence of a physical reality, sure, but we don’t need to assume that the physical reality is fundamental or independent of the mind of the universal numbers (which requires only arithmetic). If we /*must*/ assume it then

Re: for Cosmin

On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 12:25:38 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 10 May 2019, at 09:12, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > When someone says "consciousness is not a material thing" I think of Wile > E. Coyote. > > Consciousnesses need something (matter) to hang on to. Consciousnesses

Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

> On 11 May 2019, at 08:13, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > https://aeon.co/ideas/how-the-dualism-of-descartes-ruined-our-mental-health > ... > Nature was thereby drained of her inner life, rendered a deaf and blind > apparatus of indifferent and value-free law, and humankind was faced with a

Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

> On 11 May 2019, at 12:51, John Clark wrote: > > Separating mind from matter is no more ruinous than separating "fast" from > "racing car". Mind is what a brain does. We can be OK with this. But then with *digital* Mechanism, mind is what universal number does. A brain is then an

Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 8:27:38 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 7:21 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > *At least now you are saying "brain activity" instead of "mind". That's >> progress.* >> > > I think you're talking about the "difference" between 6 and half a dozen.

Re: for Cosmin

> On 10 May 2019, at 18:30, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > I tried astral projection [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection > ] and unlike others here it > doesn't work. Lol So because you don’t succeed in getting out of your body,

Re: for Cosmin

> On 10 May 2019, at 09:12, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > When someone says "consciousness is not a material thing" I think of Wile E. > Coyote. > > Consciousnesses need something (matter) to hang on to. Consciousnesses just > don't go floating around willy-nilly. The Coyote finds that out

Re: for Cosmin

> On 9 May 2019, at 22:18, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/9/2019 1:05 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: >> And what has this to do with consciousness ? >> >> On Thursday, 9 May 2019 00:40:59 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> For me it boils down to that a

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 7:45 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 1:20 AM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 3:49 PM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:20 PM Bruce Kellett

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Monday, May 13, 2019 at 3:11:41 PM UTC+2, telmo wrote: > > > > > On 13. May 2019, at 05:19, Bruce Kellett > > wrote: > > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 2:00 PM Jason Resch > wrote: > >> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:52 PM Bruce Kellett > > wrote: >> >>> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 12:40 PM Jason Resch >>

Re: How separating mind from matter ruined mental health

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 7:21 PM Philip Thrift wrote: > *At least now you are saying "brain activity" instead of "mind". That's > progress.* > I think you're talking about the "difference" between 6 and half a dozen. Mind is what the brain does and you can't **do** anything without the activity

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 13. May 2019, at 05:19, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 2:00 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:52 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: >> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 12:40 PM Jason Resch wrote: >>> > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:04 PM Bruce Kellett

Re: The religion of AI

> On 9 May 2019, at 22:06, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Only because you don't have absolute will it doesn't mean you don't have > limited will. I see a lot of strawman fallacy around here. I agree. Some people have no scientific attitude when some notion are tackle, like

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 1:20 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 3:49 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:20 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 2:00 PM Jason Resch

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 11 May 2019, at 01:07, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/10/2019 8:17 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> If the theory is to make any sense, any reference to "the universe" must be >> consistent with every other reference to "the universe". >> >> >> Einstein's paper on

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 10 May 2019, at 17:36, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 1:02 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: > > > On 5/9/2019 7:58 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Bruce Kellett >

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 10 May 2019, at 17:17, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 12:26 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > From: Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> >> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Bruce Kellett > > wrote: >> On

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 10 May 2019, at 08:54, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 2:50:49 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 2:21 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > > wrote: > > > On 5/9/2019 11:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 12:06 PM

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 10 May 2019, at 07:26, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > From: Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> >> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Bruce Kellett > > wrote: >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:18 AM Jason Resch > > wrote: >> On Thu, May 9,

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 10 May 2019, at 03:22, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:54 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: > On 5/9/2019 5:18 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > That all subjectively indistinguishable computations going through >

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 10 May 2019, at 02:46, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:18 AM Jason Resch > wrote: > On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:02 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 9:36 AM Jason Resch

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 10 May 2019, at 01:35, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 3:09 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: > > > On 5/9/2019 12:50 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 2:21 PM 'Brent Meeker' via

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 9 May 2019, at 20:47, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 12:06 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: > > > On 5/9/2019 3:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 3 May 2019, at 15:27, Terren Suydam >>

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 1:20 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 3:49 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:20 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 2:00 PM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:52 PM Bruce Kellett

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Sunday, May 12, 2019 at 9:40:12 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > >> > Incompleteness disproves nominalism. Arithmetical truth was proven not > only to be not human defined, but to be not human definable. > (This is something I posted a few days ago in another forum.) >From Joel David

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Sunday, May 12, 2019 at 2:43:39 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 9 May 2019, at 19:57, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > Is a theory of dark matter already lurking within TOA (Theory Of > Arithmetic) ready to be derived? > > > The goal was to explain where consciousness and matter

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 3:49 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:20 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 2:00 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:52 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 12:40 PM Jason Resch

Re: How do AI fanboys explain telepathy and precognition ?

On Sunday, May 12, 2019 at 2:55:39 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 5/12/2019 11:26 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, May 12, 2019 at 12:57:17 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 5/12/2019 1:35 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 9:21:45 PM UTC-5,