Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

>> >>> >>> There's quantum measure theory: >>> >>> Axioms in section 2: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1002.0589.pdf >>> <https://arxiv.org/pdf/1002.0589.pdf> >> That is a very interesting paper. >> >> >>> >>> But

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

t you don't understand physics. Many Worlds is >>>>>> "in the math" (as Sean Carroll claims) so it must be true. >>>>>> >>>>>> They engage in magical thinking, but think they are doing science. >>>>>> Amazing. >>>

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

thinking, but think they are doing science. >>>>> Amazing. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The many-histories is a logical consequence of the theory. To assume a >>>>> theory without accepting its consequence is just wrong, or irrational. >

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

tories is a logical consequence of the theory. To assume a >>>> theory without accepting its consequence is just wrong, or irrational. >>>> >>>> Bruno >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Which specific theory formulation are y

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

ch relevant, as you know I do think that Gleason theorem >> makes them derivable, but that is not relevant here). >> >> >> >> >> There's *quantum measure theory*: >> >> Axioms in section 2: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1002.0589.pdf >> >> >>

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

ot is not much relevant, as you know I do think that Gleason theorem >> makes them derivable, but that is not relevant here). >> >> >> >> >> There's *quantum measure theory*: >> >> Axioms in section 2: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1002.0589.pdf >> >>

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

t; There's *quantum measure theory*: > > Axioms in section 2: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1002.0589.pdf > > > That is a very interesting paper. > > > > But I don't see where Many Worlds as Carroll presents them are necessarily > implied by these axioms. > > > They are implie

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

l, i.e. he solves the preferred basis and derivation of the Born rule.  Then he suggests, but doesn't really argue, that the universe cannot have enough information to realize all the non-zero states on the diagonal and so only a few can be realized and that realization is per the Born rule.  This is

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 9/25/2019 4:31 AM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 6:47 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: /> Quantum Bayesianism, or QBism as Fuchs now calls it, solves many of quantum theory’s deepest mysteries./ It seems to me the Copenhagen Interpretation of

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

>> >> >> I didn't write that. Obviously. >> I would write pretty much its contradiction. > > Sorry, that was Bruno. Yes. And your comment is OK. If a theory is probabilistic, and if the probability are not drivable by classical ignorance in a unique computation, then

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

are necessarily > implied by these axioms. They are implied by the SWE, or Dirac. May be the best argument is that the founder have invented the notion of collapse because that is the only way to avoid them. QM predict that I f I put cat in the state dead + alive, and if I look at the c

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 6:47 PM Philip Thrift wrote: *> Quantum Bayesianism, or QBism as Fuchs now calls it, solves many of > quantum theory’s deepest mysteries.* It seems to me the Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics is just the Shut Up And Calculate interpretation with a few

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 9/24/2019 12:42 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 2:12:00 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 9/24/2019 8:44 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > The many-histories is a logical consequence of the theory. To assume a > theory without accepting its consequence is

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 2:12:00 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 9/24/2019 8:44 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > The many-histories is a logical consequence of the theory. To assume a > > theory without accepting its consequence is just wrong, or irrational. > > The theory, quantum

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 9/24/2019 8:44 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: The many-histories is a logical consequence of the theory. To assume a theory without accepting its consequence is just wrong, or irrational. The theory, quantum mechanics, is probabilistic. Brent -- You received this message because you are

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 9/24/2019 1:22 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 3:05:39 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 1:36:42 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 8:44:39 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

is measurement. /Zurek takes an operational view of what is "real" and so many quantum states are not real, because they cannot be determined.  He apparently thinks that all the branches of MWI cannot be real because there is not enough information capacity in the universe to determine them

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 6:23:10 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 24 Sep 2019, at 10:22, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 3:05:39 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 1:36:42 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote:

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 24 Sep 2019, at 10:22, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 3:05:39 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 1:36:42 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 8:44:39 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > On

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 24 Sep 2019, at 09:36, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 8:44:39 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > On 9/23/2019 6:24 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 3:44:49 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 9/23/2019 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 24 Sep 2019, at 03:44, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 9/23/2019 6:24 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 3:44:49 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 9/23/2019 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> But other quantum experts use

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 24 Sep 2019, at 03:24, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 3:44:49 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > On 9/23/2019 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> But other quantum experts use decoherence to explain quantum phenomena >> without invoking multiple universes. > >

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 23 Sep 2019, at 22:54, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 9/23/2019 11:32 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> By isolating the system, you can avoid “future entanglement”, and dismiss >> older, but when an entanglement is made, without collapse, by linearity of >> both

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

e, I do not see any Everettian MW (theory, math, >>> ideas, formulations, interpretations or whatever they want to call it) in >>> computational quantum mechanics: >>> >>> https://www.simonsfoundation.org/flatiron/center-for-computational-quantum-physics/software >>>

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 3:05:39 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 1:36:42 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 8:44:39 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 9/23/2019 6:24 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>>

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 1:36:42 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 8:44:39 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 9/23/2019 6:24 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 3:44:49 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 8:44:39 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 9/23/2019 6:24 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 3:44:49 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 9/23/2019 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> *But other quantum experts use decoherence to

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 9/23/2019 6:24 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 3:44:49 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 9/23/2019 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: /But other quantum experts use decoherence to explain quantum phenomena without invoking multiple universes./ "Without

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 3:44:49 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 9/23/2019 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > *But other quantum experts use decoherence to explain quantum phenomena > without invoking multiple universes.* > > > "Without invoking" doesn't mean "denying". > It does if

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 4:44:49 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 9/23/2019 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > *But other quantum experts use decoherence to explain quantum phenomena > without invoking multiple universes.* > > > "Without invoking" doesn't mean "denying". If you're

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 9/23/2019 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: /But other quantum experts use decoherence to explain quantum phenomena without invoking multiple universes./ "Without invoking" doesn't mean "denying".  If you're only interested in saving the phenomenon you can explain the /*apparent*/ collapse

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 9/23/2019 11:32 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: By isolating the system, you can avoid “future entanglement”, and dismiss older, but when an entanglement is made, without collapse, by linearity of both the evolution and the tensor product, it is will last forever. Did you read Carroll's

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

ions, interpretations or whatever they want to call >>> it) in computational quantum mechanics: >>> >>> >>> https://www.simonsfoundation.org/flatiron/center-for-computational-quantum-physics/software >>> >>> If MW were important, it would be there. >>

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

ing the annihilation box). Bruno > > > -Original Message- > From: John Clark > To: everything-list > Sent: Sat, Sep 21, 2019 7:10 am > Subject: Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 12:07 PM Bruno Mar

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 21 Sep 2019, at 13:10, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 12:07 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > > Our decision are classical, so (even in the Everett quantum world) they do > > not "create new worlds”. > I suspect Sean Carroll is quoted out of context,

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

; where several jockeys and trainers have recently been suspended for >> unauthorised interference -- but that is a different matter!) >> >> Bruce >> >> I know. I was just being illustrative. But note that Carroll says much the >> same thing when he says wor

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

.org/flatiron/center-for-computational-quantum-physics/software >> >> <https://www.simonsfoundation.org/flatiron/center-for-computational-quantum-physics/software> >> >> If MW were important, it would be there. > > > All computational theory (quantum or not) implies t

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

QFT is an effective theory that explain neural activity too. Yes, to Penrose's microtubules, no, to Tegmark's objection that all quantum processes need to be done via sub-zero temps. What the implications for life are using this way of thinking, if anything, are, as always open to speculation

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

: John Clark To: everything-list Sent: Sat, Sep 21, 2019 7:10 am Subject: Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 12:07 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > Our decision are classical, so (even in the Everett quantum world) they do > not "create new

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 21-09-2019 14:50, Philip Thrift wrote: On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 7:32:43 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:29 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: _> Has Carroll forgotten about effective theories? Even QFT is just an "effective theory". We use classical approximations to

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 7:32:43 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:29 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > *> Has Carroll forgotten about effective theories? Even QFT is just an >> "effective theory". We use classical approximations to quantum mechanics >> because

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 12:41:41 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsXCwUsuvKo> > > John K Clark > I think the enforcers of "right speech" deleted my post whic

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:29 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: *> Has Carroll forgotten about effective theories? Even QFT is just an > "effective theory". We use classical approximations to quantum mechanics > because they work -- not for ideological or philosophical reasons.* > Read the book, Carroll

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:10 PM John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 12:07 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > >> *> Our decision are classical, so (even in the Everett quantum world) >> they do not "create new worlds”. I suspect Sean Carroll is quoted out of >> context, as indeed that is a

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 12:07 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > *> Our decision are classical, so (even in the Everett quantum world) they > do not "create new worlds”. I suspect Sean Carroll is quoted out of > context, as indeed that is a mistake (a common one).* If there is one theme running

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

s >>>>>> no collapse, no many worlds, no need to explain where the energy comes >>>>>> from >>>>>> which defines these worlds, and so forth? AG >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Except that horses and horse races do not interf

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

I do not see any Everettian MW (theory, >> math, ideas, formulations, interpretations or whatever they want to call >> it) in computational quantum mechanics: >> >> >> https://www.simonsfoundation.org/flatiron/center-for-computational-quantum-physics/software >&

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

whatever they want to call > it) in computational quantum mechanics: > > > https://www.simonsfoundation.org/flatiron/center-for-computational-quantum-physics/software > > If MW were important, it would be there. > > > > All computational theory (quantum or not) implies the "Man

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 19 Sep 2019, at 07:44, smitra wrote: > > On 18-09-2019 20:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: >> On 9/18/2019 1:33 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> But suppose you flip a coin and while it's in the air, you write its wf. >>> Since the prev

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

created when you make a left or right > turn, or flip a coin (or some equivalent analogy). AG > > But suppose you flip a coin and while it's in the air, you write its wf. > Since the prevailing belief is that all objects are quantum objects, why > can't one suppose that th

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 18 Sep 2019, at 20:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 9/18/2019 1:33 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> But suppose you flip a coin and while it's in the air, you write its wf. >> Since the prevailing belief is that all objects are quan

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

d, Sep 18, 2019 at 3:01 AM smitra > >> wrote: >> On 17-09-2019 13:32, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> > >> > So why do all Everettians have to add so many additional assumptions >> > in order to pretend to get out the Born rule? >> > >> >>

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

Sean slips inevitably into woo-woo. > > > No, this is a rather solid result from assuming the validity of the > Schrodinger equation: > > https://arxiv.org/abs/1212.0953 <https://arxiv.org/abs/1212.0953> > > "We argue using simple models that all successful

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

ake observable predictions by one bit and would do absolutely nothing except > muzzle the Schrödinger Equation which is virtually shouting at us about the > nature of reality. The Many Worlds theory didn't tack on all those many > worlds, if you take a bare bones approach to quantum mechanics

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

19 at 1:41:41 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsXCwUsuvKo> >> >> John K Clark >> >> >> >> >> "Many Worlds" (as demonstrated via Sean C

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

not improve the theories ability to > make observable predictions by one bit and would do absolutely nothing except > muzzle the Schrödinger Equation which is virtually shouting at us about the > nature of reality. The Many Worlds theory didn't tack on all those many > worlds, if yo

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

ng List wrote: >> >> On 9/18/2019 1:33 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> But suppose you flip a coin and while it's in the air, you write its wf. >> Since the prevailing belief is that all objects are quantum objects, why >> can't one suppose that the two te

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

ile it's in the air, you write its wf. > Since the prevailing belief is that all objects are quantum objects, why > can't one suppose that the two terms in the superposition, head and tail, > manifest quantum interference? AG > > > One clue that you can't is that magicians teach

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 9/18/2019 10:44 PM, smitra wrote: On 18-09-2019 20:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 9/18/2019 1:33 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: But suppose you flip a coin and while it's in the air, you write its wf. Since the prevailing belief is that all objects are quantum objects, why

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 17 Sep 2019, at 09:16, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 5:08 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 1:02:39 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 4:51 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > On Monday, September 16, 2019

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 17 Sep 2019, at 04:22, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 12:19 PM spudboy100 via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: > Agnostic, Mind-Brain thing is good with me. According to a brief article, > some theorists have mused about

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

Our decision are classical, so (even in the Everett quantum world) they do not "create new worlds”. I suspect Sean Carroll is quoted out of context, as indeed that is a mistake (a common one). Bruno > On 16 Sep 2019, at 15:28, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, September 16, 2019

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 18-09-2019 20:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 9/18/2019 1:33 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: But suppose you flip a coin and while it's in the air, you write its wf. Since the prevailing belief is that all objects are quantum objects, why can't one suppose that the two terms

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

lapse, no many worlds, no need to explain where the energy comes >>>>> from >>>>> which defines these worlds, and so forth? AG >>>>> >>>> >>>> Except that horses and horse races do not interfere (except in >>>&

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 9/18/2019 1:33 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: But suppose you flip a coin and while it's in the air, you write its wf. Since the prevailing belief is that all objects are quantum objects, why can't one suppose that the two terms in the superposition, head and tail, manifest quantum interference

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

, 2019 at 3:01 AM smitra > >> wrote: >> >>> On 17-09-2019 13:32, Bruce Kellett wrote: >>> > >>> > So why do all Everettians have to add so many additional assumptions >>> > in order to pretend to get out the Born rule? >>> > >>>

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

gt;>> Australia, where several jockeys and trainers have recently been suspended >>> for unauthorised interference -- but that is a different matter!) >>> >>> Bruce >>> >> >> I know. I was just being illustrative. But note that Carroll

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

these worlds, and so forth? AG >>> >> >> Except that horses and horse races do not interfere (except in Australia, >> where several jockeys and trainers have recently been suspended for >> unauthorised interference -- but that is a different matter!) >> &g

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:37 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 9/17/2019 3:49 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 3:01 AM smitra wrote: > >> On 17-09-2019 13:32, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> > &g

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 9/17/2019 3:49 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 3:01 AM smitra <mailto:smi...@zonnet.nl>> wrote: On 17-09-2019 13:32, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > So why do all Everettians have to add so many additional assumptions > in order to pretend to get

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 3:01 AM smitra wrote: > On 17-09-2019 13:32, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > > > So why do all Everettians have to add so many additional assumptions > > in order to pretend to get out the Born rule? > > > > Simply assuming the special cas

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> > https://arxiv.org/abs/1212.0953 > > "We argue using simple models that all successful practical uses of > probabilities originate in quantum fluctuations in the microscopic > physical world around us, often propagated to macroscopic scales. Thus > we claim there is

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

t;> > >> On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 1:41:41 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > >> > >> Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is [1] > >> > >> John K Clark > >> > >> "Many Worlds" (as demonstrate

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> nothing except muzzle the Schrödinger Equation which is virtually shouting > at us about the nature of reality. The Many Worlds theory didn't tack on > all those many worlds, if you take a bare bones approach to quantum > mechanics and add nothing not needed to explain observation those

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 17-09-2019 16:04, Philip Thrift wrote: On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 8:20:01 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Sep 2019, at 10:49, Philip Thrift wrote: On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 1:41:41 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is [1

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

tion which is virtually shouting at us about the nature of reality. The Many Worlds theory didn't tack on all those many worlds, if you take a bare bones approach to quantum mechanics and add nothing not needed to explain observation those worlds come naturally, they can't be avoided. So why do all Everet

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

or flip a coin (or some equivalent analogy). AG And that is where Sean slips inevitably into woo-woo. No, this is a rather solid result from assuming the validity of the Schrodinger equation: https://arxiv.org/abs/1212.0953 "We argue using simple models that all successful practical uses

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 8:20:01 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 16 Sep 2019, at 10:49, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 1:41:41 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> Sean Carroll: Universe a '

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 7:30 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: *> The fact that the squared amplitudes add up to unity is not particularly > surprising when you have normalised the wave function!* > True, and it's also not surprising that it always gives you positive numbers, and that's just what you

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

> On 16 Sep 2019, at 10:49, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 1:41:41 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsXCwUsuvKo> > > John K

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

chrödinger Equation which is virtually shouting > at us about the nature of reality. The Many Worlds theory didn't tack on > all those many worlds, if you take a bare bones approach to quantum > mechanics and add nothing not needed to explain observation those worlds > come naturally, they

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 7:50 PM John Clark wrote: > On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 7:57 PM 'Brent Meeker < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > >> >> Many Worlds could be called Austere Quantum Mechanics because it adds >> nothing to Schrödinger's Equation because nothing more is needed to

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

heels within wheels to make the wave function suddenly vanish would not improve the theories ability to make observable predictions by one bit and would do absolutely nothing except muzzle the Schrödinger Equation which is virtually shouting at us about the nature of reality. The Many Worlds theory

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 7:57 PM 'Brent Meeker < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> Many Worlds could be called Austere Quantum Mechanics because it adds > nothing to Schrödinger's Equation because nothing more is needed to explain > observations. > > > * > You still need the Born

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 5:08 PM Alan Grayson wrote: > On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 1:02:39 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 4:51 PM Alan Grayson wrote: >> >>> On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 3:54:46 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 9:22 AM

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 1:02:39 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 4:51 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > >> On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 3:54:46 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 9:22 AM Alan Grayson >>> wrote: >>> >>> *> When physics began to

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 4:51 PM Alan Grayson wrote: > On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 3:54:46 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 9:22 AM Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> *> When physics began to give non-intuitive results, in QM >>> and Relativity, people when overboard. Now

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 3:54:46 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 9:22 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > *> When physics began to give non-intuitive results, in QM and Relativity, >> people when overboard. Now any patently absurd result finds its >> justification

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 2:41 PM spudboy100 via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Yeah, but despite Chopra there was Linde is seems to be a reliable. > physicist. Also, the dismissive crap performed by number crunchers, dismiss > it because it merely offends their

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

sort of commercial...intellectual..technological...somehow, some way..ROI. We need a pay out, in some fashion.  -Original Message- From: Bruce Kellett To: everything-list Sent: Mon, Sep 16, 2019 10:23 pm Subject: Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is On Tue, Sep 17

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 12:19 PM spudboy100 via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Agnostic, Mind-Brain thing is good with me. According to a brief article, > some theorists have mused about consciousness in the absence of matter. > Check it out. It will either be a good

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

Kellett To: everything-list Sent: Mon, Sep 16, 2019 9:08 pm Subject: Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 10:39 AM spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: It would be (will be?) interesting when we achieve this. Serious, academic bench computer

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

://dailygalaxy.com/2019/09/the-ultimate-mystery-consciousness-may-exist-in-the-absence-of-matter-weekend-feature/ -Original Message- From: spudboy100 via Everything List To: everything-list Sent: Mon, Sep 16, 2019 4:44 pm Subject: Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is So

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 10:39 AM spudboy100 via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > It would be (will be?) interesting when we achieve this. Serious, academic > bench computer scientists are actively working on variations of machine > intelligence to make this happen,

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

? A Cartesian dualist imputing a magic substance? :-)  -Original Message- From: Bruce Kellett To: everything-list Sent: Mon, Sep 16, 2019 7:28 pm Subject: Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 6:44 AM spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:   So

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 9/16/2019 2:54 PM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 9:22 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: /> When physics began to give non-intuitive results, in QM *and* Relativity, people when overboard. Now any patently absurd result finds its justification

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 6:44 AM spudboy100 via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > So, if we develop AI to come up with new, better, equations, this would be > good with you, because, non-human? > > Perhaps he could usefully have added: "nor to be in perfect harmony with

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 9:22 AM Alan Grayson wrote: *> When physics began to give non-intuitive results, in QM and Relativity, > people when overboard. Now any patently absurd result finds its > justification among true believers.* > And in this context "patently absurd" means odd, not

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

On 9/16/2019 6:22 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 5:58:58 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 4:49 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > "Many Worlds" (as demonstrated via Sean Carroll here) demonstrates a failure of theoretical physics,

Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is

Oh My! I'll simply have to delete my un-read download of Carroll's book because Woit disapproves!!!   -Original Message- From: Philip Thrift To: Everything List Sent: Mon, Sep 16, 2019 9:28 am Subject: Re: Sean Carroll: Universe a 'tiny sliver' of all there is On Monday, September

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