Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/7/2021 2:24 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Jul 7, 2021, 12:14 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: On 7/6/2021 6:50 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 9:39 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkellet..

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/6/2021 6:50 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 9:39 PM Bruce Kellett <mailto:bhkellet...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 11:29 AM Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 4:07 PM 'Brent Meeker' vi

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/6/2021 12:21 AM, smitra wrote: On 05-07-2021 12:18, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 7:39 PM smitra wrote: On 05-07-2021 09:00, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 2:23 PM smitra wrote: I don't think this is actually done in the experiment. What is observed is the

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/6/2021 12:49 PM, smitra wrote: On 06-07-2021 19:34, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 12:27 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: And you're never going to find a being that behaves intelligently based on information that can be quantum erased.

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/6/2021 10:34 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 12:27 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: And you're never going to find a being that behaves intelligently based on information that can be q

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/6/2021 6:50 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 2021, 2:52 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: On 7/5/2021 5:46 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021, 8:41 PM 'Brent Mee

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/6/2021 8:49 AM, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 8:26 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: >> So an intelligent and presumably consciousbeingonce existed that knew which slot all the electrons went through, but those interference bands sti

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/6/2021 3:55 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 10:10 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >> It's easy to determine that the quantum computer is intelligent butas for consci

Re: The best video yet about January 6

On 7/5/2021 4:39 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: I am in no way even sarcastically courageous. I don't see the idiot convention on January 6th as such a big deal. You yourself have basically dismissed the series of riots in 2020, that affected the "little man," in 2020 in their "outr

Re: wealth

And note that this is about /income/ distribution. /Wealth/ distribution is much more uneven. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmW_q5dmosM Brent On 7/5/2021 2:53 PM, John wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 5:17 PM Lawrence  wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=QPKKQnijnsM

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/5/2021 11:03 AM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 11:24 AM Tomas Pales > wrote: >> If my brain is in Paris and I'm looking at a TV football game from Detroit and I'm listening to a friend in Australia on my telephone and I'm thin

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/5/2021 7:41 AM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 9:44 AM Tomas Pales > wrote: >> "Brain" is a noun, "consciousness" is not, that's why you can't measure consciousness by the pound or by the cubic inch. /> In English language it is

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/5/2021 6:03 AM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 5:33 AM Tomas Pales > wrote: /> I think consciousness is the brain,/ I disagree. "Brain" is a noun, "consciousness" is not, that's why you can't measure consciousness by the pound or by the cubic i

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/5/2021 5:46 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021, 8:41 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: On 7/4/2021 5:05 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021, 3:36 PM 'Brent Mee

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/5/2021 2:41 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 4:25:09 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote: But there's no random selection involved unless you make it a postulate.  Otherwise it's just a collection. There is obviously a selection because I don't see all possible outcomes, just

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 7:38 PM, Jason Resch wrote: All QM interpretations are "many-component" theories. It's just that some posit that, at certain (often not well-defined) times, all but one of those many-components stop existing. So as to "Why keep those components?" I think it leads to a simpler theo

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 6:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021, 8:50 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: On 7/4/2021 5:30 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 12:54:45 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote:

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 6:33 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 2:50:48 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote: On 7/4/2021 5:30 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: For example, A happens in 16 worlds and B in 9 worlds. Or in general, the proportion of worlds where A happens to worlds where B happens is

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 5:54 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 12:57:03 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote: So you are this single magic soul that selects one world of many to really be in? I don't select it; nature does. That seems contrary to the idea that your consciousness gets ent

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 6:13 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021, 8:54 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: On 7/4/2021 5:14 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021, 6:54 PM 'Brent Mee

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 3:13 PM, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 4:57 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >> An intelligent quantum computer is perfectly capable of creating a document specifying that

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 5:14 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021, 6:54 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: On 7/4/2021 5:17 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 1:51:51 PM UTC+2 Bruce wrote:

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 5:30 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 12:54:45 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote: It's not that it's necessarily 50/50; it's that there's no mechanism for it being the values in the Schroedinger equation. In one world A happens.  In the other world B happens.  How d

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 5:05 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021, 3:36 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: On 7/4/2021 8:01 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 9:07 AM Lawrence Crowell mailto:

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 4:28 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021, 8:07 AM Tomas Pales > wrote: On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 12:48:06 PM UTC+2 Bruce wrote: But that works only if the copies are generated in the actual quantum coin tossing experiment

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 4:30 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 4:38:42 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote: Advocates of MWI want to claim there are no projections (they aren't unitary) that instead the the world "splits" and each approximately diagonal value is realized in a subspace.  But

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 5:17 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 1:51:51 PM UTC+2 Bruce wrote: And in the two-outcome experiment, how do you ever get a probability different from 0.5 for each possible outcome? You would seem to be looking for a branch counting explanation of

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 1:29 PM, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 3:36 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >> I think I mentioned before that in David Deutsch's book "The Ghost In The Atom&quo

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/4/2021 8:01 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2021 at 9:07 AM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > /I can imagine this being worked without MWI. The nonlocality of the gravitation field and the locality of QFT means that with spacetime formed

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

On 7/4/2021 4:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Jun 2021, at 13:17, smitra wrote: Information is the key. Conscious agents are defined by precisely that information that specifies the content of their consciousness. This means that a conscious agent can never be precisely located in some p

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/3/2021 2:57 PM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 4:11 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >> And what the detector does is determined by quantum mechanics,not classical mechanics.

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/3/2021 4:59 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 1:10:43 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote: On 7/2/2021 2:43 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 2:54:19 PM UTC+2 Lawrence Crowell wrote: The GRW interpretation states there is with any quantum wave

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/3/2021 2:51 AM, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:09 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >> Probability must be about something and that something had to either have happened or have n

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/2/2021 2:43 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 2:54:19 PM UTC+2 Lawrence Crowell wrote: The GRW interpretation states there is with any quantum wave a fundamental phenomenon of collapse. The collapse occurs fundamentally by a stochastic rule. Fundamental, irr

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/2/2021 5:54 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 4:01:35 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 5:13 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: > /why do you think a probability amplitude wave would not produ

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/2/2021 2:00 AM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 5:13 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: > /why do you think a probability amplitude wave would not produce a discreet spot?  Do you imagine i

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/1/2021 12:22 PM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 2:18 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: /> The math says the wave function travels thru both slots. / But when a single electron hits a photogr

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/1/2021 12:34 PM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 2:03 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: />>> It's more that a particle or a system of particles exist in a single phy

Re: ALCOR in the New York Times

On 7/1/2021 8:19 AM, John Clark wrote: Actually scientific andtechnological considerations are only number 4 on my list of reasons why I think cryonics might not work, my first three reasons are: 1) I might not get frozen quickly after I am declared legally dead. 2) I might not be retained a

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/1/2021 6:47 AM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 8:19 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: /> In the two slit experiment the two paths are different./ Yes, and that's why there are two universes, thereis a difference between them. As Sesame Street says, o

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

To split the worlds the difference must be that the state vector projects onto two (or more) orthogonal subspaces which correspond to the different possible values of the measurement. Brent On 7/1/2021 4:55 AM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 7:38 AM Bruce Kellett

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 7/1/2021 4:20 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 5:55 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >> "superposition" is just a word that means a collection of particles that exist i

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/30/2021 8:07 AM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 7:46 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: /> I think John's trouble here is that he still adheres to David Deutsch's concept of worlds. Deutch talks as though every component of a superposition is a

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/28/2021 3:29 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:53:29 PM UTC+2 Brent wrote: On 6/28/2021 4:54 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: Because why does this particular world exist instead of some other? And what is the difference between a possible world that exists a

Re: Rudy Giuliani's law license has been suspended

On 6/28/2021 4:31 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: The GDP was much smaller even in proportion to the popular size. Plus, there is no taking account of the decline in GDP from 1929-1933. I don't care aboutrepublican or democrat, I just care about results. Then why do you vote for Re

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/28/2021 3:33 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 12:02:04 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote: Are you saying it would entail a logical contradiction for a unicorn to exist on this planet?  I don't think "logical possibility" means what you think it means. It would be a c

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/28/2021 9:27 AM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 11:13 AM Jason Resch > wrote: >>And there is no reason to suppose that such worlds exist. /> There is: how do quantum computers work unless the wave function, and all its superpositio

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/28/2021 8:13 AM, Jason Resch wrote: There is no well-defined theory of eternal inflation, so other worlds from this source are purely speculative. Inflation, in its simplest and most general forms is eternal. You need to work to make a version that's not eternal. Eternal inflat

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/28/2021 8:02 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 12:10 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: On 6/27/2021 6:19 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 8:09 PM 'Brent Mee

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/28/2021 6:45 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 2:24:08 PM UTC+2 Bruce wrote: On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 9:54 PM Tomas Pales wrote: And what is the difference between a possible world that exists and a possible world that doesn't, anyway? What does

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/28/2021 4:54 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 5:30:43 AM UTC+2 Bruce wrote: Why should we ever be led to consider the set of all logically possible worlds? Because why does this particular world exist instead of some other? And what is the difference between

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/27/2021 6:19 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 8:09 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: On 6/27/2021 4:13 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 6:03 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bh

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/27/2021 5:00 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 10:12:23 PM UTC+2 Brent wrote: On 6/27/2021 5:18 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: No, atoms are more simple than ducks, and atoms are also more frequent than ducks because there are atoms in every duck but there is

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/27/2021 4:13 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 6:03 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 8:58 AM Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 5:34 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkellet...@gm

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/27/2021 1:56 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 2:34 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: On 6/27/2021 2:49 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 3:53:18 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote:

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/27/2021 5:18 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 1:21:32 PM UTC+2 Bruce wrote: On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 7:38 PM Tomas Pales wrote: On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 2:36:38 AM UTC+2 Bruce wrote: Much as I respect Russell, his book is not an

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/27/2021 2:49 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 3:53:18 AM UTC+2 Brent wrote: Notice that they don't exist in the sense you mean. Newton's laws aren't around anymore. By laws I mean regularities in nature. The apple still falls down and not up or in random dir

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/26/2021 4:41 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 11:36:47 PM UTC+2 Brent wrote: But presumably the */laws /*are stable. Why?  Because that's the way we want them.  If they weren't stable (or even time invariant) we wouldn't call them laws of physics.  They'

Re: Why are laws of physics stable?

On 6/26/2021 9:15 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Jun 26, 2021 at 7:43 AM Tomas Pales > wrote: /> While the anthropic principle might be used to explain why the laws have been stable in the past (because this stability is probably necessary for the evolut

Re: Rudy Giuliani's law license has been suspended

But he didn't increase unemployment that much since several hundred thousand of the people who had been employed were only unemployed because they were dead of covid. Brent On 6/26/2021 3:41 AM, John Clark wrote: I should add that Donald Trump is the first American president since fellow Repu

Re: Rudy Giuliani's law license has been suspended

ically and so is sure to catch more wind flow. It reminds me of a giant box fan that sits in the ocean. https://renews.biz/70098/norwegian-newbie-reveals-innovative-floating-tech/ -Original Message- From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List To: everything-list@googlegroups.c

Re: Rudy Giuliani's law license has been suspended

On 6/24/2021 8:14 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: I fear "this structure" only dwells in your imagination. But that is what is fascinating about the democrats. Trump is their only point of focus, and if it is a true derangement, I say Hip-Hip! Chin-Chin! Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

On 6/22/2021 3:59 AM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 8:03 PM > wrote: /> From what I was able to see, there surely wasn't 30k at or near the capital, even if they all desired revolution. In either case to stage a revolt there's need to be 100 t

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

On 6/20/2021 3:51 PM, Jason Resch wrote: It's not impossible if there are universal goals. Even a paperclip maximizer will have the meta goal of increasing its knowledge, during which time it may learn to escape its programming, just as the human brain may transcended its biological programm

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

-Original Message- From: smitra To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, Jun 19, 2021 7:17 am Subject: Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness? This resolves paradoxes you get in thought experiments where you consider simulating a brain

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

On 6/20/2021 2:43 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 8:46 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: /> Certain values are built in by evolution, values related to reproducing mostly/ Humans don'

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

On 6/20/2021 2:26 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 7:17 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: /> This depends on how we define consciousness.  If it means imagining and using simulations in which you

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

On 6/19/2021 4:12 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: /> For example, wee could rule out many theories and narrow down on those that accept "organizational invariance" as Chalmers defines it. This is the principle that if one entity is consciousness, and another enti

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

On 6/19/2021 3:20 PM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 5:57 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: > /What I think is missing in the JKC's idea that intelligence is//interesting and understandable

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

On 6/19/2021 12:48 PM, John Clark wrote: I know Darwinian Evolution produced me and I know for a fact that I am conscious, but Natural Selection can't see consciousness any better than we can directly see consciousness in other people, This depends on how we define consciousness.  If it mean

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

On 6/19/2021 12:48 PM, John Clark wrote: Of my own free will, I consciously decide to go to a restaurant. /Why? / Because I want to. /Why ? / Because I want to eat. /Why?/ Because I'm hungry? /Why ?/ Because lack of food triggered nerve impulses  in my stomach , my braininterpreted these sign

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

On 6/19/2021 8:54 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 6:17 AM smitra > wrote: Information is the key.  Conscious agents are defined by precisely that information that specifies the content of their consciousness. While I think this is true, I d

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

On 6/19/2021 8:35 AM, Jason Resch wrote: You appear to operate according to a "mysterian" view of consciousness, which is that we cannot ever know. Several philosophers of mind have expressed this, such as Thomas Nagel I believe. I have some sympathy with this view, but I ask "cannot know w

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

Sorry.  I thought Poincare' effect was a common term, but apparently not.  Here's his description starting about half way thru this essay http://vigeland.caltech.edu/ist4/lectures/Poincare%20Reflections.pdf Brent On 6/19/2021 7:52 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 8:59

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

On 6/19/2021 4:17 AM, smitra wrote: Information is the key.  Conscious agents are defined by precisely that information that specifies the content of their consciousness. This means that a conscious agent can never be precisely located in some physical object, because the information that de

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

On 6/18/2021 5:16 PM, Jason Resch wrote: - Is consciousness inherent to any intelligent process? I think the answer is yes, what do you think? Not just any intelligent process.  But any at human (or even dog) level.  I think human level consciousness depends on language or similar represe

Re: Which philosopher or neuro/AI scientist has the best theory of consciousness?

I'm most with Dennett.  I see consciousness as having several different levels, which are also different levels of self-reference.  At the lowest level even bacteria recognize (in the functional/operational sense) a distinction between "me" and "everything else".  A little above that, some that

Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

On 6/18/2021 7:51 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: If pure atheism, works for you than more power to you. My suspicion is that people who are snarky atheists such as yourself tend to have a nicely wired brain system, thus are not troubled by big D, little e-a-t-h. This is all to the

Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

On 6/18/2021 2:38 AM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 7:23 PM > wrote: />Socialists who do mass murder are no better than religious people who do mass murder. Can we agree on this premise? / Yes. And can we agree on the premise that Black Lives Ma

Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

On 6/16/2021 9:44 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Sure Brent, old history for me.Both adolf and stalin were actual choir boys. But the claim was that the socialists get a pass, No. Your claim was that Hitler was a "big atheist" and as usual you have nothing to back it up. B

Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

On 6/16/2021 4:20 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: You really are saying that atheists don't do murderous things? Hawking, by the way, lost his bet with Leonard Susskind about information disappearing forever via black holes, and was like the British, wrong about Israel. You can us

Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

On 6/16/2021 3:51 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: The Donald was more PT Barnum than Mussolini, a socialist journalist and a novelist. The MYPillow guy beat his drug addiction with Jesus belief so more power to him. I may switch to his new company and leave Jeff Bezos at Amazon and

Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

On 6/16/2021 2:44 AM, John Clark wrote: > /Dolf secretly hated Christianity, for being tainted with what he termed, "The Jewish pity ethic." / It doesn't matter if Hitler believed in Christianity or not,what's important is that Hitler knew that tens of millions of Germans DID belie

Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

On 6/15/2021 8:28 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: I would much prefer to live with questions that have not been answered than to live with answers that cannot be questioned. Spudboy and the medinuclear guy Ben would have things so that truth comes from authority. This is the psychology of religi

Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

On 6/15/2021 4:21 AM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 6:50 PM spudboy100 via Everything List > wrote: /> Religion acted as a psychological survival kit,/ As in human sacrifice and war? Romans tortured Christians because they wouldn't w

Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

On 6/14/2021 3:50 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: The world to the old peeps was malevolent. Feeding kids, keeping alive, surviving diseases, weather, war, and way early on, other animals. Religion acted as a psychological survival kit, and it often still does for many. Not such

Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

On 6/14/2021 2:17 PM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 11:05 AM > wrote: >///New religions I hold we do not need./ I hold we don't need the old religions either. /> Skeptic Michael Shermer paraphrasing Arthur C. Clarke, said: A sufficiently ad

Re: Was, Re: The theology of number, (Now) The Universe Learns (not released on April 1st)

On 6/14/2021 8:05 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: New religions I hold we do not need. It's better to use science to upgrade them. If the universe does indeed learn as proposed by the physicist, then that's a good thing. Skeptic Michael Shermer paraphrasing Arthur C. Clarke, said:

Re: Senator's "My American Story" Is a Result of Awakened-Bo Dark-Matter Body

On 6/10/2021 3:58 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: John just remember how things were less than a year ago, even concerning medical science and public practice of such. Medical scientists were banned from Facebook and Twitter just for putting for research. Now we have this in the last

Re: Dumbest guy in congress asks if the Forest Service can change Earth's orbit to fight climate change

d then shut down oil and gas exploration. Do not transplant a new heart into a patient until one has a replacement heart. I am a pragmatist and will view with favor anything that works. -Original Message- From: John Clark To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List Sent: Thu, Ju

Re: Senator's "My American Story" Is a Result of Awakened-Bo Dark-Matter Body

On 6/10/2021 2:13 PM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 1:28 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: /> Here's a more comprehensive estimate in terms of jobs that will be taken by AI./ That'

Re: Dumbest guy in congress asks if the Forest Service can change Earth's orbit to fight climate change

Dumb would be to ask if the orbit of the Earth or Moon could be changed to cure global waming, of NASA.  But to ask if the fucking Forest Service could do it is beyond idiocy!  I must congratulate Ms. Eberlein for maintaining her composure while realizing that people with bat shit for brains vo

Re: Senator's "My American Story" Is a Result of Awakened-Bo Dark-Matter Body

- On Friday, June 4, 2021 John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 8:29 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: /> It's not nearly as thin as the air that says it's a musket.  It's the obvious functional

Re: Senator's "My American Story" Is a Result of Awakened-Bo Dark-Matter Body

On 6/4/2021 3:15 AM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 8:29 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: /> It's not nearly as thin as the air that says it's a musket. It's the obvious functional

Re: Senator's "My American Story" Is a Result of Awakened-Bo Dark-Matter Body

On 6/3/2021 2:38 PM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 5:04 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >> It doesn't say that anywherein the constitution,and these days a soldier can have wea

Re: Senator's "My American Story" Is a Result of Awakened-Bo Dark-Matter Body

On 6/3/2021 1:07 PM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 3:01 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote: /> It's much more sensible to define "arms" in terms of function than mechanical design.  Af

Re: Senator's "My American Story" Is a Result of Awakened-Bo Dark-Matter Body

It's much more sensible to define "arms" in terms of function than mechanical design.  After all "arms" meant swords and pikes and bows and arrows too.  Functionally, "arms" meant what a soldier carried...these days an assault rifle.  The purpose of the 2nd Amendment was as a substitute for a s

Re: Senator's "My American Story" Is a Result of Awakened-Bo Dark-Matter Body

On 6/3/2021 4:32 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 12:53:21 PM UTC-5 Brent wrote: On 5/30/2021 7:15 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: This is manifested in denial arguments seen around the world. The second Amendment was drafted in order to allow militias to p

Re: Senator's "My American Story" Is a Result of Awakened-Bo Dark-Matter Body

On 5/30/2021 7:15 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: This is manifested in denial arguments seen around the world. The second Amendment was drafted in order to allow militias to put down slave rebellions. I think that's nonsense.  The U.S. had just been formed by taking up arms, without an army, t

Re: Fermi paradox

On 5/11/2021 8:55 AM, smitra wrote: One can also say that society as a whole is itself an intelligent agent, albeit a rather dumb one compared to humans themselves. As you wrote, we evolved intelligence to enable communications about the environment and that led to our civilization culture a

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