Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 8 Nov 2018, at 12:42, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 8, 2018 at 3:10:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 5 Nov 2018, at 18:05, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 3:47:58 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 1 Nov 2018,

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thursday, November 8, 2018 at 3:10:15 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 5 Nov 2018, at 18:05, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 3:47:58 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 1 Nov 2018, at 19:59, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, November

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thursday, November 8, 2018 at 3:14:36 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 5 Nov 2018, at 19:26, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 11:14:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 5 Nov 2018, at 11:41, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> But I claim an

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 5 Nov 2018, at 20:13, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_machine > > Le lun. 5 nov. 2018 19:28, Quentin Anciaux > a écrit : > > > Le lun. 5 nov. 2018 19:17, John Clark

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 5 Nov 2018, at 19:26, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 11:14:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 5 Nov 2018, at 11:41, Philip Thrift > wrote: >> >> >> But I claim an experience-processing computer (like our brain) is not >> super-Turing, but is

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 5 Nov 2018, at 18:05, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 3:47:58 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 1 Nov 2018, at 19:59, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 1:44:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Thu, Nov 1,

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 5 Nov 2018, at 14:48, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 4:39 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > >>> No Turing machine can solve the halting problem. You are right on this. > >>> But an oracle can, or a machine with infinite speed can. > > >>If such a

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_machine Le lun. 5 nov. 2018 19:28, Quentin Anciaux a écrit : > > > Le lun. 5 nov. 2018 19:17, John Clark a écrit : > >> On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 8:51 AM Quentin Anciaux >> wrote: >> >> >>There is no evidence fire breathing dragons exist in nature but if

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

Le lun. 5 nov. 2018 19:17, John Clark a écrit : > On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 8:51 AM Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > >>There is no evidence fire breathing dragons exist in nature but if one >>> did it would not produce a logical contradiction, however Turing proved >>> over 80 years ago that a oracle

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 11:14:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 5 Nov 2018, at 11:41, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > But I claim an experience-processing computer (like our brain) is not > super-Turing, but is non-Turing: All *information* it can process is > Turing-computable,

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 8:51 AM Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>There is no evidence fire breathing dragons exist in nature but if one >> did it would not produce a logical contradiction, however Turing proved >> over 80 years ago that a oracle that could solve the Halting Problem would. >> > > *> It

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 5 Nov 2018, at 11:41, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 3:36:59 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 2 Nov 2018, at 15:02, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 3:45:53 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 1 Nov 2018,

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 3:47:58 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 1 Nov 2018, at 19:59, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 1:44:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:27 PM Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> *> infinite time Turing

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

Le lun. 5 nov. 2018 à 14:48, John Clark a écrit : > On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 4:39 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > *>>> No Turing machine can solve the halting problem. You are right on this. But an oracle can, or a machine with infinite speed can.* >>> >>> > > >>If such a oracle could exist >>

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 4:39 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: *>>> No Turing machine can solve the halting problem. You are right on >>> this. But an oracle can, or a machine with infinite speed can.* >> >> >>If such a oracle could exist > > > *In what sense?* > Whoever said there is no such thing as a

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 3:36:59 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 2 Nov 2018, at 15:02, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 3:45:53 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 1 Nov 2018, at 19:43, John Clark wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:27

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 2 Nov 2018, at 17:47, John Clark wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:16 AM > wrote: > > > You sound like a young fool who has no respect for his elders. > > And you sound like a old fool who has placed so much respect for his elders > it approaches the

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 2 Nov 2018, at 18:06, John Clark wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:45 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > > No Turing machine can solve the halting problem. You are right on this. But > > an oracle can, or a machine with infinite speed can. > > If such a oracle

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 2 Nov 2018, at 15:02, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 3:45:53 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 1 Nov 2018, at 19:43, John Clark > wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:27 PM Philip Thrift > > wrote: >> >> > infinite time Turing machines are more

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 4:48:05 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:16 AM > wrote: > > *> You sound like a young fool who has no respect for his elders*. > > > And you sound like a old fool who has placed so much respect for his > elders it approaches the level of

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:45 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: *> No Turing machine can solve the halting problem. You are right on this. > But an oracle can, or a machine with infinite speed can.* > If such a oracle could exist then logical contradictions could too and then there would be no point in

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:16 AM wrote: *> You sound like a young fool who has no respect for his elders*. And you sound like a old fool who has placed so much respect for his elders it approaches the level of ancestor worship. But It's not just you, this entire list's reverence for the ancient

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 3:45:53 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 1 Nov 2018, at 19:43, John Clark > > wrote: > > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:27 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *> infinite time Turing machines are more powerful than ordinary Turing >> machines* > > > That is true,

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 1 Nov 2018, at 19:59, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 1:44:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:27 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > infinite time Turing machines are more powerful than ordinary Turing > > machines > > That is true,

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 1 Nov 2018, at 19:43, John Clark wrote: > > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:27 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > infinite time Turing machines are more powerful than ordinary Turing > > machines > > That is true, it is also true that if dragons existed they

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 6:33:31 PM UTC-5, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 6:15:50 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 11/1/2018 4:02 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 4:02:56 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 5:47:09 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 8:18 AM > wrote: > > *> motion can't be done in finite steps* > > > It can if Spacetime is granular, > *It is unethical to truncate my comment in an attempt to win an argument. Of course motion can

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 6:15:50 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 11/1/2018 4:02 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 4:02:56 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 11/1/2018 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 1:44:19

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On 11/1/2018 4:02 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 4:02:56 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 11/1/2018 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 1:44:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:27 PM Philip Thrift

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 4:02:56 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 11/1/2018 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 1:44:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:27 PM Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> *> infinite time Turing machines

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On 11/1/2018 11:59 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 1:44:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:27 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: /> infinite time Turing machines are more powerful than ordinary Turing machines/ That is true,

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 2:33:31 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 3:11 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > How does *the arrow shot at a target *(in Zeno's Paradox) *compute* the >> truth of the forall-exists quantifier construct in the Caucy definition? >> > > I know

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 3:11 PM Philip Thrift wrote: > How does *the arrow shot at a target *(in Zeno's Paradox) *compute* the > truth of the forall-exists quantifier construct in the Caucy definition? > I know how calculus computes it, I don't know for a fact the arrow computes it the same way

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 1:48:16 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:43 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *> Even if spacetime is "continuous", what motion is in reality is not >> resolved by a Cauchy-type of (ε, δ)-definition of limit* >> > > Why not? > > John K Clark

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 1:44:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:27 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *> infinite time Turing machines are more powerful than ordinary Turing >> machines* > > > That is true, it is also true that if dragons existed they would be >

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:43 PM Philip Thrift wrote: *> Even if spacetime is "continuous", what motion is in reality is not > resolved by a Cauchy-type of (ε, δ)-definition of limit* > Why not? John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:27 PM Philip Thrift wrote: *> infinite time Turing machines are more powerful than ordinary Turing > machines* That is true, it is also true that if dragons existed they would be dangerous and if I had some cream I could have strawberries and cream, if I had some

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 12:47:09 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 8:18 AM > wrote: > > *> motion can't be done in finite steps* > > > It can if Spacetime is granular, and even if it's not and Spacetime is > continuous motion is still possible and Calculus tells us

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 12:31:13 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 3:14 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > From https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~cristian/talks/selected/BeamerATM.pdf >> >> *> An accelerated Turing machine (sometimes called Zeno machine) is a >> Turing

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 8:18 AM wrote: *> motion can't be done in finite steps* It can if Spacetime is granular, and even if it's not and Spacetime is continuous motion is still possible and Calculus tells us how. But Zeno can not tell us which of these explanations is correct and so joins the

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 3:14 PM Philip Thrift wrote: >From https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~cristian/talks/selected/BeamerATM.pdf > > *> An accelerated Turing machine (sometimes called Zeno machine) is a > Turing machine that takes 2^−n units of time (say seconds) to perform its > nth step; we

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 at 2:09:41 PM UTC+1, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 3:38:55 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 10:16 PM wrote: >> >> >>What you described is a infinite number of FIXED length discrete steps, and if

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 3:38:55 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 10:16 PM > > wrote: > > >>What you described is a infinite number of FIXED length discrete >>> steps, and if that is what motion is motion would indeed be impossible, but >>> its not the infinity

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 3:38:55 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 10:16 PM > > wrote: > > >>What you described is a infinite number of FIXED length discrete >>> steps, and if that is what motion is motion would indeed be impossible, but >>> its not the infinity

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 11:13:17 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 1:30 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > *More formally, a **Zeno machine is a Turing machine that* > > > The rules of Zeno's machine never change so if its a Turing Machine it's > must be a

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 30 Oct 2018, at 12:33, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 9:45:09 AM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 29 Oct 2018, at 17:54, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:07:41 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: >> On Sun, Oct 28,

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 30 Oct 2018, at 12:01, Tomas Pales wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 10:36:59 AM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Any object can be inconsistently defined. I can define the moon by the set of > squared circles. > > The set of squared circles is the empty set. The moon is

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 30 Oct 2018, at 10:50, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 4:29:01 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 29 Oct 2018, at 11:24, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:35:39 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> Because

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 1:30 PM Philip Thrift wrote: > *More formally, a **Zeno machine is a Turing machine that* The rules of Zeno's machine never change so if its a Turing Machine it's must be a one state Turing Machine, the very simplest type. But there are only 64 different one state

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 10:16 PM wrote: >>What you described is a infinite number of FIXED length discrete steps, >> and if that is what motion is motion would indeed be impossible, but its >> not the infinity that makes it impossible its the fixed length. >> > > *>Of course it's the infinity

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

What I see in the tech news is about things like *Quantum Monte Carlo* for chemistry on high-performance computing platforms like ones from @ OpenPOWERorg . That's a lot of bits-flipping-per-second. Also, see *Differentiable Functional Programming* (e.g.

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 11:04:31 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 3:44 PM > wrote: > > *> You miss the point. If the task is done in discrete steps as I >> described, which is apriori conceivable, motion is impossible.* > > > What you described is a infinite number

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 3:44 PM wrote: *> You miss the point. If the task is done in discrete steps as I > described, which is apriori conceivable, motion is impossible.* What you described is a infinite number of FIXED length discrete steps, and if that is what motion is motion would indeed

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 11:46:53 PM UTC+1, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/30/2018 2:49 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 8:14:31 PM UTC+1, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/30/2018 4:01 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 10:36:59 AM

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On 10/30/2018 2:49 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 8:14:31 PM UTC+1, Brent wrote: On 10/30/2018 4:01 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 10:36:59 AM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: Any object can be inconsistently defined. I

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 5:30:51 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 12:29 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > *> By the word "approximation" above in reference to what is being >> approximating seems to assume that the natural world itself - the >> materials out of

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

The calculus problems that computers can solve exactly don't have complex boundary conditions, including arbitrary dynamic terms, that are only defined numerically. Brent On 10/30/2018 8:43 AM, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 2:22 AM Philip Thrift >

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On 10/30/2018 4:01 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 10:36:59 AM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: Any object can be inconsistently defined. I can define the moon by the set of squared circles. The set of squared circles is the empty set. The moon is not an empty

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 12:30:51 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 12:29 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > *> By the word "approximation" above in reference to what is being >> approximating seems to assume that the natural world itself - the >> materials out

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 12:29 PM Philip Thrift wrote: *> By the word "approximation" above in reference to what is being > approximating seems to assume that the natural world itself - the > materials out of which the bridge or airplane is made, the air, the > bedrock, the whole constructions

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 12:24:04 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > > "there CAN be a infinite number of variable pauses in which each pause is half the length of the previous pause" You realize that is what a Zeno machine is based on: More formally, a *Zeno machine* is a Turing machine

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 7:44:35 AM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: you can think of Zeno's paradox as an infinite sequence of tasks, each one > separated by a finite fixed pause. The complete task cannot be completed in > finite time Then all Zeno did was show you shouldn't think of

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 7:44:35 AM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 12:38:16 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:15:28 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 5:21 PM wrote:

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 10:44:00 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 2:22 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > *> Engineers today are ultrafintiitists in practice: They design airplanes >> and bridges with computer software that runs on computers with a fixed, >>

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 2:22 AM Philip Thrift wrote: *> Engineers today are ultrafintiitists in practice: They design airplanes > and bridges with computer software that runs on computers with a fixed, > finite number of bits that are ever used. * For over 40 years computers have been able to

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 29 Oct 2018, at 23:46, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 10/29/2018 1:06 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 7:48:57 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 10/28/2018 9:17 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> Instead of relativism, philosophers talk of

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:07:41 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:56 PM > wrote: > > > *What's your view of Zeno's paradox which implies motion is >> impossible.* > > > Zeno thought it was obvious if you added an infinite number of nonzero > lengths or nonzero

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 12:38:16 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:15:28 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 5:21 PM wrote: >> >> >*If you try to traverse a unit distance in infinite steps such as 1/2, >>> 1/4, 1/8, 1/16

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:15:28 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > > On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 5:21 PM > wrote: > > >*If you try to traverse a unit distance in infinite steps such as 1/2, >> 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 and so forth, the sum converges to 1, but you will never >> traverse the distance even

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 9:45:09 AM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 29 Oct 2018, at 17:54, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:07:41 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:56 PM wrote: >> >> > *What's your view of Zeno's paradox

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 10:36:59 AM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Any object can be inconsistently defined. I can define the moon by the set > of squared circles. > The set of squared circles is the empty set. The moon is not an empty set, it has a complex internal structure.

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 4:55:13 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 29 Oct 2018, at 23:48, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:15:28 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 5:21 PM wrote: >> >> >*If you try to traverse a unit

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 29 Oct 2018, at 23:48, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:15:28 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 5:21 PM > wrote: > > >If you try to traverse a unit distance in infinite steps such as 1/2, 1/4, > >1/8, 1/16 and so forth, the sum

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 4:29:01 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 29 Oct 2018, at 11:24, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:35:39 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> >> Because finite numbers can be shown to have infinite hallucinations, >>

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 29 Oct 2018, at 19:55, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:36:47 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:56 PM > wrote: > > > What's your view of Zeno's

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 29 Oct 2018, at 17:54, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:07:41 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:56 PM > wrote: > > > What's your view of Zeno's paradox which implies motion is impossible. > > Zeno thought it was obvious if you

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 29 Oct 2018, at 11:38, Tomas Pales wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:35:39 AM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 28 Oct 2018, at 16:16, Tomas Pales > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 3:37:16 PM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 26 Oct 2018,

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 29 Oct 2018, at 11:24, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:35:39 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > Because finite numbers can be shown to have infinite hallucinations, > especially when they mess with other finite numbers. And that leads to a > testable

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

> On 29 Oct 2018, at 10:55, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:44:49 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 28 Oct 2018, at 17:17, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 10:27:56 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 27 Oct

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

All On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 8:27:49 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 6:48 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > > To a mathematical ultrafinitist [ >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrafinitism ], the standard calculus is >> wrong. > > > Then I don't want to ever cross

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 6:48 PM Philip Thrift wrote: > To a mathematical ultrafinitist [ > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrafinitism ], the standard calculus is > wrong. Then I don't want to ever cross a bridge or fly in a airplane that was designed by a engineer that is a ultrafinitist.

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 12:00:10 AM UTC+1, Brent wrote: > > > > Imagine a universe that is the set of all triangles. That means that a law > of this universe determines that only triangles can be members of this > universe. Surely it would be a logical inconsistency if a circle was a

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On 10/29/2018 3:38 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: An object can be inconsistent in the sense that it can be inconsistently defined - and this I mean in the absolute sense, regardless of theory: an object that is not identical to itself is inconsistent in any theory. Such an object cannot exist. All

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:46:13 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/29/2018 1:06 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 7:48:57 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/28/2018 9:17 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> Instead of relativism, philosophers talk of

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On 10/29/2018 3:09 AM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:54:10 AM UTC+1, Brent wrote: On 10/28/2018 7:54 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 3:17:58 AM UTC+1, Brent wrote: On 10/28/2018 5:18 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: On

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 5:15:28 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > > On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 5:21 PM > wrote: > > >*If you try to traverse a unit distance in infinite steps such as 1/2, >> 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 and so forth, the sum converges to 1, but you will never >> traverse the distance even

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On 10/29/2018 1:06 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 7:48:57 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 10/28/2018 9:17 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: Instead of relativism, philosophers talk of *perspectivism*. (Nietzsche is said to be the father of perspectivism. I say,

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 10:21:52 PM UTC+1, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 8:33:32 PM UTC, Tomas Pales wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 7:36:47 PM UTC+1, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 5:21 PM wrote: >*If you try to traverse a unit distance in infinite steps such as 1/2, > 1/4, 1/8, 1/16 and so forth, the sum converges to 1, but you will never > traverse the distance even though the sum converges.* Never? If what you say is true then calculus is

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 2:36 PM Philip Thrift wrote: >>Zeno thought it was obvious if you added an infinite number of nonzero >> lengths or nonzero times together you would always get something that was >> nfinite, and that is the foundation of his paradox; but with modern >> calculus we know

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 8:33:32 PM UTC, Tomas Pales wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 7:36:47 PM UTC+1, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:56 PM wrote: >>> >>> > *What's your

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 8:46 PM Brent Meeker wrote: >>gravity is 10^36 times weaker than electromagnetism > > > >*This is because the comparison is to the gravitational attraction of > elementary particles, such as two protons. But the masses of elementary > particles like protons are not

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 7:36:47 PM UTC+1, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:56 PM wrote: >> >> > *What's your view of Zeno's paradox which implies motion is >>> impossible.* >> >> >> Zeno

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 7:06:47 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 1:55:27 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:36:47 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 1:55:27 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:36:47 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:56 PM wrote: >>> >>> >

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:36:47 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:56 PM wrote: >> >> > *What's your view of Zeno's paradox which implies motion is >>> impossible.* >> >> >> Zeno

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:56 PM > wrote: > > > *What's your view of Zeno's paradox which implies motion is >> impossible.* > > > Zeno thought it was obvious if you added an infinite number of nonzero > lengths or nonzero

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:07:41 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:56 PM > wrote: > > > *What's your view of Zeno's paradox which implies motion is >> impossible.* > > > Zeno thought it was obvious if you added an infinite number of nonzero > lengths or nonzero

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:56 PM wrote: > *What's your view of Zeno's paradox which implies motion is impossible.* Zeno thought it was obvious if you added an infinite number of nonzero lengths or nonzero times together you would always get something that was nfinite, and that is the

Re: Mathematical Universe Hypothesis

On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 4:54:10 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 10/28/2018 7:54 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: > > > > On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 3:17:58 AM UTC+1, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/28/2018 5:18 PM, Tomas Pales wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 12:33:23 AM UTC+1,

  1   2   3   4   >