Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On 5/10/2019 8:17 AM, Jason Resch wrote: If the theory is to make any sense, any reference to "the universe" must be consistent with every other reference to "the universe". Einstein's paper on special relativity begins with one concept of time, and by the end of the paper

Re: Bernardo Kastrup: "Analytic Idealism: A consciousness-only ontology) '

On 5/10/2019 6:24 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Thu, May 9, 2019, at 17:53, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 5/9/2019 2:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ll sciences are born from theology, which remind us that the belief in any reality out of personal consciousness requires an act of

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 5:22 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 5/10/2019 6:59 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:54 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On 5/10/2019 4:36 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 6:07 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 5/10/2019 8:17 AM, Jason Resch wrote: If the theory is to make any sense, any reference to "the

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 1:47:35 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 5/10/2019 3:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 6 May 2019, at 10:25, cloud...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 6:55:37 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > When I follow a recipe (a program) to make a meal, I mix

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On 08-05-2019 21:55, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 5/5/2019 7:06 PM, smitra wrote: Or perhaps it's a mistake to attribute consciousness to particular physical systems. Instead of saying that this computer or that brain is or isn't  conscious, we could postulate that there exists

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On 5/10/2019 6:59 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:54 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 5/9/2019 5:18 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > That all subjectively indistinguishable computations going through >

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 6:07 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 5/10/2019 8:17 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > If the theory is to make any sense, any reference to "the universe" must >> be consistent with every other reference to "the universe".

Re: The religion of AI

So the mind evolves by rational acts of free will (maybe JKC will explain what that means) but that free will is limited by "evolution". Brent On 5/9/2019 11:40 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: Evolution. On Thursday, 9 May 2019 23:19:31 UTC+3, Brent wrote: OK, what limits

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 12:24:56PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Wittgenstein is sum up with his “what we cannot talk about should not be > talked > about”, but that is self-defeating (What are you talking about Mr > Wittgenstein?). > Only if he couldn't talk about what he is talking about.

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:16 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> >> Then with mechanism, we get the many-histories from a simple fact to >>> prove: all computations are realised in all models of arithmetic. >>> >> >> But arithmetic does not

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On 5/10/2019 3:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 6 May 2019, at 10:25, cloudver...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 6:55:37 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: When I follow a recipe (a program) to make a meal, I mix the identified ingredients in the specified

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 6:02 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:16 AM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Then with mechanism, we get the many-histories from a simple fact to prove: all computations are realised in

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 5:31:05 PM UTC-5, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 12:24:56PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > Wittgenstein is sum up with his “what we cannot talk about should not be > talked > > about”, but that is self-defeating (What are you talking about

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 6:34:47 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > (Mechanism is the leading theory of mind among philosophers of mind, what > is your alternative?) > > Jason > I don't know where people get the "*x *is the leading theory" notion from -- it always sounds like it's likely

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 2:50:49 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > > On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 2:21 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > >> >> >> On 5/9/2019 11:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 12:06 PM 'Brent Meeker' via

Re: for Cosmin

On Fri, May 10, 2019, at 08:12, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > When someone says "consciousness is not a material thing" I think of Wile E. > Coyote. > > Consciousnesses need something (matter) to hang on to. Or the other way around. We don't really know. Telmo. > Consciousnesses just don't

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 6 May 2019, at 10:25, cloudver...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 6:55:37 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 6:40 PM > wrote: > > I don't have answers to any of these questions, but I do know this: > > The Church-Turing thesis is one of the most

Re: for Cosmin

Why ? On Friday, 10 May 2019 10:12:10 UTC+3, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > Consciousnesses need something (matter) to hang on to. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from

Re: for Cosmin

When someone says "consciousness is not a material thing" I think of Wile E. Coyote. Consciousnesses need something (matter) to hang on to. Consciousnesses just don't go floating around willy-nilly. The Coyote finds that out when he finds out he is hanging on to nothing, and looks down.

Re: The religion of AI

Evolution. On Thursday, 9 May 2019 23:19:31 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > OK, what limits it? physics? > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On 5/9/2019 7:58 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:18 AM Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:02 PM Bruce Kellett

Re: The religion of AI

> On 7 May 2019, at 23:10, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > They are not labelled 'true' or 'false' or 'cat' or 'dog'. But whatever you > want to call them, they are very small; contrary to your ignorant assertion > that "A computer has to be told how to do it by its

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 6 May 2019, at 17:32, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Relax! There is no "matter". "Matter" is just an idea in consciousness. So > yeah, final verdict: "cybernatic hocus-bogus" is just a crackpot idea. Mechanism implies that Matter is an idea of consciousness. But “just”

Re: The religion of AI

> On 8 May 2019, at 21:55, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Since evolution is the evolution of consciousness, I wasn't programmed, but > consciousness by itself solved new and never before seen problems without > anyone telling her what to do. But machines can do that too.

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:51 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 7 May 2019, at 01:04, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 7:02 AM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:41 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < >> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> I am

Re: Bernardo Kastrup: "Analytic Idealism: A consciousness-only ontology) '

On Thu, May 9, 2019, at 17:53, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: > > > On 5/9/2019 2:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > ll sciences are born from theology, which remind us that the belief in > > any reality out of personal consciousness requires an act of faith. > > This is false. 

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 6 May 2019, at 22:41, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/5/2019 11:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:59 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >> mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> >> wrote: >> >> >> On 5/5/2019 10:30 PM,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 8 May 2019, at 17:44, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:57 AM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > >> On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:50, Jason Resch > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:57 AM Bruno Marchal >

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 6 May 2019, at 14:02, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 2:19 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > > This is essentially the point that both Turing and Goedel made when they > > pointed out that human consciousness is not Turing emulable -- it involves

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 7 May 2019, at 01:04, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 7:02 AM Jason Resch > wrote: > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:41 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: > > > I am not following where this

Re: The religion of AI

> On 7 May 2019, at 21:33, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > But can AI write nonsense theories of everything as well as human arm-chair > philosophers? When they write a book explaining why humans can't really be > conscious because they can't even balance their bank account,

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 7:53 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 8 May 2019, at 17:44, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:57 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 26 Apr 2019, at 02:50, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 9:57 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 8:23 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:54 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> On 5/9/2019 5:18 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> > >> > That all subjectively indistinguishable computations going through >> >

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 12:26 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch > > On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:18 AM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:02 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 9:36

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:16 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > > Then with mechanism, we get the many-histories from a simple fact to >> prove: all computations are realised in all models of arithmetic. >> > > But arithmetic does not exist independently of the human mind, and > mechanism is manifestly

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:54 PM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 5/9/2019 5:18 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > That all subjectively indistinguishable computations going through > > that state are a possibility means the consciousness cannot

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 1:02 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 5/9/2019 7:58 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 7:47 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:18 AM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu,

Re: for Cosmin

I tried astral projection [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection ] and unlike others here it doesn't work. @philipthrift On Friday, May 10, 2019 at 4:48:47 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: > > Why ? > > On Friday, 10 May 2019 10:12:10 UTC+3, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >>

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019, at 12:03, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 29 Apr 2019, at 18:03, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 21, 2019, at 12:02, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 19 Apr 2019, at 14:09, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, at 09:09, 'Cosmin Visan'

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 6:25 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: >> Turing was interested in intelligence and, being a scientist, he knew he >> couldn't say anything about consciousness unless he made the assumption >> that observable intelligent behavior implies consciousness. > > *> But that was due to