Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 6:19:54 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 2:01 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > >> *> If a program (multi-core x86 code) running on a zillion-processor >> Intel Core computer can be conscious, then the proposition of "Chinese >> room" is wrong.*

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 4:40 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: > >> >> >> On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 4:10:12 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, May 20, 2019, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> On Monday, May 20, 2019

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 17 May 2019, at 22:57, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/17/2019 7:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > But then it seems the theory talks about "preserving consciousness", a > first-person...what? perception that I'm me? What perception could you > have

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

> On 17 May 2019, at 16:05, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Telepathy is not information transmission. Telepathy is consciousnesses > unifications: 2 or more consciousnesses unify, they live a common experience, > and then they split back apart, all remembering the shared

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 5:01:20 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 16 May 2019, at 14:52, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > This is what I call one form of *consciousness denial* > > https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/13/the-consciousness-deniers/ > > in that information

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

Your definition of telepathy is not part of reality, when no evidence exists, no matter how hard one searches for evidence of "telepathy". That little voice in your head that you believe (not know) is not evidence of telepathy. On 5/20/2019 7:29 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 17 May 2019, at 23:02, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/17/2019 7:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But imagine that you are sent, without knowing, in a virtual reality. Then, if it is rough, you will surely guess that you are in a virtual reality,

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

> On 17 May 2019, at 16:19, Terren Suydam wrote: > > If there isn't a word for this, there should be, to name the situation when > someone makes some insulting claim that is best understood as a projection of > one's own justified fear of how they're perceived. Trump does it all the time. It

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 5:55:19 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 16 May 2019, at 14:13, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 7:18:47 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: >> >> I heard there are a couple of people that claim they've been on the Moon. >> I asked them to

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 18 May 2019, at 00:43, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/17/2019 2:16 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:08 PM John Clark > > wrote: >> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 4:54 PM Jason Resch >

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

> On 16 May 2019, at 14:13, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 7:18:47 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: > I heard there are a couple of people that claim they've been on the Moon. I > asked them to prove it to me by going again, but they said they cannot do it. > What

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 17 May 2019, at 22:52, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/17/2019 7:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> No, with mechanism, mind supervenes locally on matter, but matter supervenes >> on the mind of all universal machines, which compete below our substitution

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

> On 17 May 2019, at 17:30, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Stating the obvious is not insulting. The whole point is that, at the least, telepathy is NOT obvious. Bruno > If a phenomenon is real and you say is not, what else are you if not a > irrational dogmatic

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

Telepathy happens when you interact with people in real life. Do you interact with people ? On Monday, 20 May 2019 14:02:15 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > telepathy is usually not even well defined, and I see no evidences > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 17 May 2019, at 09:33, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 1:56:05 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: > > > There is plenty of evidence, informally known as "the unreasonable > effectiveness of math". > > As Max Tegmark points out, all of our scientific theories (he was

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 17 May 2019, at 20:58, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/17/2019 3:35 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> It's a matter of equivocating on "the natural numbers". If you regard them >>> as a theory of things, the way you learn them at your mother's knee, then >>>

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 17 May 2019, at 08:56, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > On Sat, May 11, 2019, at 00:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:42 PM Jason Resch > > wrote: >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:16 AM Bruce Kellett > > wrote: >>

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 17 May 2019, at 14:47, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:14 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > On 16 May 2019, at 03:27, Bruce Kellett > wrote: >> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:59 AM Bruno Marchal >

Re: for Cosmin

They are synonymous. Look at Berkeley or Locke to see how they use the word "idea". That's where also "idealism" comes from. On Sunday, 19 May 2019 20:11:50 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 17 May 2019, at 13:00, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > >

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 17 May 2019, at 09:31, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:56 PM Telmo Menezes > wrote: > On Sat, May 11, 2019, at 00:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:42 PM Jason Resch > > wrote: >> On Fri,

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Fri, May 17, 2019, at 09:32, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:56 PM Telmo Menezes wrote: >> __ >> On Sat, May 11, 2019, at 00:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: >>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:42 PM Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:16 AM Bruce Kellett wrote:

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 17 May 2019, at 23:24, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/17/2019 5:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 16 May 2019, at 01:40, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/15/2019 9:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 13 May 2019, at

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

> On 16 May 2019, at 14:52, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > This is what I call one form of consciousness denial > > https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/13/the-consciousness-deniers/ > > > in that information

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 6:50:48 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > > On Sunday, May 19, 2019, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > >> >> >> On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 2:40:04 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 1:21 PM Philip Thrift >>> wrote: >>> On Sunday, May

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 17 May 2019, at 13:43, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:15 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > On 15 May 2019, at 13:18, Bruce Kellett > wrote: >> On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 5:50 PM Bruno Marchal > >

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

> On 18 May 2019, at 00:33, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 5:21:41 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > On 5/16/2019 11:51 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 5:14:46 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 1:48 PM Philip

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

> On 18 May 2019, at 00:21, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 5/16/2019 11:51 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 5:14:46 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 1:48 PM Philip Thrift > > wrote: >> >> > Information

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

> On 18 May 2019, at 08:11, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 6:09:18 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > On 5/17/2019 3:33 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 5:21:41 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 5/16/2019 11:51 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: >>>

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 10:39:20 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjCytqku18M >>> > > That was interesting. Data has consciousness or doesn't. It's like being pregnant. > > > > >> >> There are several alternatives to our biochemistry, of course [

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 11:55:40 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 4:32 AM Philip Thrift > wrote: > > >*The Chinese room argument holds that an executing program cannot* [blah >> blah] > > > Philip, I'd really like to know why you think the Chinese room argument is >

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 12:46:13 PM UTC-5, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 10:39:20 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjCytqku18M > >> >> > > That was interesting. Data has consciousness or doesn't. It's like being >

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On 5/20/2019 2:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 May 2019, at 08:56, Telmo Menezes > wrote: On Sat, May 11, 2019, at 00:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:42 PM Jason Resch > wrote: On Fri, May 10, 2019 at

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:35 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: *> No, we can’t detect consciousness. I was saying that today positivisme > is abandoned. It is the idea that we have to abandon the concept of > consciousness because we can’t detect it which has been abandonned.* > Only a fool would

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 7:05 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> *>> There are proposed cosmologies that allow for an infinite number of >> computational steps to occur - IIRC, the "big rip" is one such.* > > > I don't think so -- the "big rip" would simple tear the physical computer > to

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 10:03:12 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 May 2019, at 00:33, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > Isn't *qualia can be reduced to information processing* the unsupported > assertion? > > The burden of proof is on those who claim qualia comes out of information

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

Exactly, Terren! Cosmin, your "evidence" is mostly anecdotal or experiments made under poor conditions. They are made by Dean Radin, who, it seems, will believe, like my dad, no matter how many times he gets poor or no results. I did look at quite a few of those he had listed. Randomization,

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On 5/20/2019 2:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: There is not one evidence fro any primitive matter. Physics predicts well, and indeed, Which is very strong evidence for physical matter.  "Primitive" is just a theological attribute that forbids looking deeper.  So of course physicists don't

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On 5/20/2019 2:35 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Physics (and the other sciences) are unreasonably effective at describing and accounting for our experiences. Platonism does not have any runs on the board at all. Platonism is a metaphysical position that is not in opposition to physics or any of

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On 5/20/2019 2:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 May 2019, at 23:18, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 5/17/2019 5:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 May 2019, at 01:28, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 5/15/2019 8:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Mathematical

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On 5/20/2019 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 May 2019, at 23:24, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 5/17/2019 5:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 May 2019, at 01:40, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 5/15/2019 9:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 13 May 2019,

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On 5/20/2019 3:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 May 2019, at 22:52, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 5/17/2019 7:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: No, with mechanism, mind supervenes locally on matter, but matter supervenes on the mind of all universal machines, which compete

Re: Are AI fanboys aware of the fact that consciousness is a unity ?

> On 18 May 2019, at 10:12, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > Consciousness monism is incoherent if one maintains that there is an > objective reality at all. > > If one rejects objective reality (a reality independent of oneself, or any > self-aware conscious entity) then all bets are off. >

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

> > >>> >>> > We do know that some synthetic-biological objects (SBOs) exist that are > conscious: Us. > > Except here the material synthesis was accomplished via natural selection, > not bay a team of scientists and engineers. > Do you think if a team of engineers in a lab built a human from

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 4:32 AM Philip Thrift wrote: >*The Chinese room argument holds that an executing program cannot* [blah > blah] Philip, I'd really like to know why you think the Chinese room argument is not imbecilic. I'm also curious why you cut and pasted all that stuff about silicon

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

Sorry mate, your ignorance doesn't stand for lack of evidence. http://deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm On Monday, 20 May 2019 15:37:41 UTC+3, howardmarks wrote: > > Your definition of telepathy is not part of reality, when no evidence > exists, no matter how hard one searches for evidence of

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On 5/20/2019 10:46 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: All examples of consciousness we have exist in living objects. (Us, for example.) Can something be a conscious object but not a living object? So you're going to appeal to the elan' vital as necessary to consciousness? Brent -- You received

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 1:22 PM Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 12:46:13 PM UTC-5, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 10:39:20 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>> >>> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjCytqku18M >> > >>> >>> >> >> That was

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

See ? That's the problem with you irrational materialist dogmatic believers. Even if people gives you evidence, you keep continue yelling "EVIDENCE! EVIDENCE!". Maybe you should consult a psychiatrist or something. You cannot have dialogues with irrational broken records. -- You received this

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 12:12:13 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: > > On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 10:27 AM Russell Standish > wrote: > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:47:36PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:14 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > > > > On 16 May 2019, at 03:27, Bruce

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Monday, May 20, 2019, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 10:39:20 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjCytqku18M > >> >> > > That was interesting. Data has consciousness or doesn't. It's like being > pregnant. > > So what would you

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 4:10:12 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > > > On Monday, May 20, 2019, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > >> >> >> On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 10:39:20 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>> >>> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjCytqku18M >> > >>> >>> >> >> That was interesting.

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 4:28 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > (Have you study this: that part took me 30 years of work. It is not > obvious, nor is Goldblatt paper obvious). If you study the work (mine and > Goldblatt, you might make less bold comments, I think). Here you shows some > prejudices. >

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On 5/20/2019 3:45 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 4:40 PM Philip Thrift > wrote: On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 4:10:12 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: On Monday, May 20, 2019, Philip Thrift wrote: On Monday, May 20, 2019 at

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

I'll add my voice to those asking you to put up or shut up. Produce an act of telepathy. You name the terms, since you're the one making the claim that you can do it. But you won't do it, because you can't. That's my clairvoyant prediction. On Mon, May 20, 2019, 6:37 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

On 5/20/2019 3:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: For the loss of it, I will have to read the 3p report “the guy teleported himself to Mars and die”. For the change of consciousness, well, if you wake up on Mars with a headache, but with a feeling that something is wrong, it is up to you to

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

As a footnote to your link for Dean Radin, look through his links - even the first one  And with small N's, what can be concluded. I'm sure he is honorable, but nevertheless he "believes" what he's writing. My father, similar EE education to Dean Radin, without the PhD, was also a

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 2:01 PM Philip Thrift wrote: > *> If a program (multi-core x86 code) running on a zillion-processor Intel > Core computer can be conscious, then the proposition of "Chinese room" is > wrong.* > You want to prove that only wet squishy things can be conscious. You ask

Re: The anecdote of Moon landing

Ignorance of what? Telepathy is defined as some sort of "communication" by all who claim they have it. If you think that the dialogue going on in your head - when you think of someone - is telepathy, then you are mistaken. But demo it. As Bruno says, "and I see no evidences" sums it up - his

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 4:53:20 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 5/20/2019 10:46 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > All examples of consciousness we have exist in living objects. (Us, > > for example.) > > > > Can something be a conscious object but not a living object? > > So you're going to

Re: Is your elbow conscious?

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 4:40 PM Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 4:10:12 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, May 20, 2019, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 10:39:20 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>>