RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
OK. After all the chatter and speculation on the price of Flex changing on April 1st, did it ever really happen? I've been on vacation and upon returning I have not been able to find any official announcement on MM's site. Has pricing changed? Can some one point me to definitive proof? Thanks! Kris -- Kristopher Schultz Developer Resource Interactive p: 614.410.2123 www.resource.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Just call MM and try to order. That's all the proof you need.My MMcontact did confirm to me the day before that it was indeed going up. -- Matthew On Apr 7, 2005 11:43 AM, Kristopher Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK. After all the chatter and speculation on the price of Flex changing on April 1st, did it ever really happen? I've been on vacation and upon returning I have not been able to find any official announcement on MM's site. Has pricing changed? Can some one point me to definitive proof? Thanks! Kris -- Kristopher Schultz Developer Resource Interactive p: 614.410.2123 www.resource.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
That's hardly giving Kris any more information than he already knew ;-) Here's a (hopefully) more helpful response. Lucian Beebe posted to the list a week or two back explaining the details of the new pricing. You can view his post here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/message/12200 Spike Matthew Shirey wrote: Just call MM and try to order. That's all the proof you need. My MM contact did confirm to me the day before that it was indeed going up. -- Matthew On Apr 7, 2005 11:43 AM, *Kristopher Schultz* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK. After all the chatter and speculation on the price of Flex changing on April 1st, did it ever really happen? I've been on vacation and upon returning I have not been able to find any official announcement on MM's site. Has pricing changed? Can some one point me to definitive proof? Thanks! Kris -- Kristopher Schultz Developer Resource Interactive p: 614.410.2123 www.resource.com *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. -- Stephen Milligan Code poet for hire http://www.spike.org.uk Do you cfeclipse? http://cfeclipse.tigris.org Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
That's true, but my point was that he might want to just go right to the source since its really easy to just pick up the phone and call. Lucian also stated that there was pricing based on 'interview' or 'discussion'. So again, its most likely best just to call MM. M. On Apr 7, 2005 12:13 PM, Spike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's hardly giving Kris any more information than he already knew ;-)Here's a (hopefully) more helpful response.Lucian Beebe posted to the list a week or two back explaining thedetails of the new pricing. You can view his post here:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/message/12200SpikeMatthew Shirey wrote: Just call MM and try to order.That's all the proof you need.My MM contact did confirm to me the day before that it was indeed going up. -- Matthew On Apr 7, 2005 11:43 AM, *Kristopher Schultz* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK. After all the chatter and speculation on the price of Flex changing on April 1st, did it ever really happen? I've been on vacation and upon returning I have not been able to find any official announcement on MM's site. Has pricing changed? Can some one point me to definitive proof? Thanks! Kris -- Kristopher Schultz Developer Resource Interactive p: 614.410.2123 www.resource.com *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=Unsubscribe * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=Unsubscribe * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/.--Stephen MilliganCode poet for hirehttp://www.spike.org.ukDo you cfeclipse? http://cfeclipse.tigris.orgYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
oh, ok. I guess I just didn't pick up on what you meant. I'd agree that calling MM would be a good idea if you really want to explore pricing options, but the post by Lucian is pretty detailed, so I thought it was worth posting. Spike Matthew Shirey wrote: That's true, but my point was that he might want to just go right to the source since its really easy to just pick up the phone and call. Lucian also stated that there was pricing based on 'interview' or 'discussion'. So again, its most likely best just to call MM. M. On Apr 7, 2005 12:13 PM, *Spike* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's hardly giving Kris any more information than he already knew ;-) Here's a (hopefully) more helpful response. Lucian Beebe posted to the list a week or two back explaining the details of the new pricing. You can view his post here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/message/12200 Spike Matthew Shirey wrote: Just call MM and try to order. That's all the proof you need. My MM contact did confirm to me the day before that it was indeed going up. -- Matthew On Apr 7, 2005 11:43 AM, *Kristopher Schultz* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK. After all the chatter and speculation on the price of Flex changing on April 1st, did it ever really happen? I've been on vacation and upon returning I have not been able to find any official announcement on MM's site. Has pricing changed? Can some one point me to definitive proof? Thanks! Kris -- Kristopher Schultz Developer Resource Interactive p: 614.410.2123 www.resource.com http://www.resource.com *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=Unsubscribe * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=Unsubscribe * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. -- Stephen Milligan Code poet for hire http://www.spike.org.uk Do you cfeclipse? http://cfeclipse.tigris.org Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. -- Stephen Milligan Code poet for hire http://www.spike.org.uk Do you cfeclipse? http://cfeclipse.tigris.org Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
On Mar 31, 2005 10:30 PM, Darron J. Schall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * The internals are abstracted away. Right now your Lazslo code publishes to .swf, but it's not tied to the Flash Player in any way - there are no MovieClip references, etc in your lazslo code. There are no MovieClip references in your Flex code either. It's all UIObject. I just grepped over my literally hundreds of MXML and ActionScript source files and didn't find a single MovieClip reference. The fact that Lazslo separates itself from the Flash Player is another benefit as well.. If something should ever happen, maybe legal issues or whatever, Lazslo can output to, say, Java applets or whatever, since the code is all abstracted from the VM and the compilation process handles the dirty work of putting your code into a format the VM can understand. Ditto for Flex. 1) You don't write Flash code in Flex. 2) In theory, it's possible to output Flex (MXML/ActionScript) to a different output format. Manish Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
On Apr 1, 2005 7:57 AM, Tarik Ahmed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So to compensate for this, MM has been providing a lot of developer support for free in this forum - that's a huge cost when you have premium developer time spent doing a ton of emails. MM engineers from different parts of the world working on the Flex project are on this forum because it gives us a better understanding of how the product is being used, the sorts of problems people are facing, and so on, by interacting with real users rather than customers. It helps us think in terms of how to make the next version better for the guy who writes MXML and ActionScript for a living. So, we're not free developer support, and participating in this forum is not necessarily a part of our job. Manish PS: We want Flex to kick ass. More. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
PS: We want Flex to kick ass. More. Amen. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com http://www.flexcoder.com (Coming Soon) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Agreed with JesterXL, go to the Monster.com and see some bites, really good. But We can't really close our eyes to the price as mentioned bellow is a price of lexus,but So, why do you go to by the car? simple no? In my opinion Flex is really a good way to develop quikly applications but the prices is the great hide seek. So, STOP all blesment about that, if you can't work and offer to your costumer a flex solution jump to Flash. other simple way. But really as Lucian Beebe said ( we are offering packeges for your solutions and your projects ), look for it and ask, that's simple Don't be acomplishment for this thread. Let's talk about pure mxml development dummies. On Apr 3, 2005 7:44 PM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS:We want Flex to kick ass.More.Amen.--Regards,Scott Barneshttp://www.mossyblog.comhttp://www.flexcoder.com (Coming Soon)Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/-- Igor Costawww.igorcosta.comwww.macromedia.com/go/team Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Actually, i mentioned this on the weekend to some soon-to-be FLEX converts, the new price model will be cheaper for us lol.. As we bought FLEX pre-Price hike, @ $15k (AUD) (2CPU) Now thats great, but if we have servers that are DUAL CPU (which is common pract in most comps) we'll need a dev product copies... thus $15k USD x 2 . which is in the end more exp ..plus i don't think we get Gold Support on the pre-price. So there ya go, it was cheaper in the end for us to wait.. (thats of course if we prefer to live on 1xCPU servers then well... 15k AUD was cheaper ) On Apr 4, 2005 2:15 PM, Igor Costa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed with JesterXL, go to the Monster.com and see some bites, really good. But We can't really close our eyes to the price as mentioned bellow is a price of lexus,but So, why do you go to by the car? simple no? In my opinion Flex is really a good way to develop quikly applications but the prices is the great hide seek. So, STOP all blesment about that, if you can't work and offer to your costumer a flex solution jump to Flash. other simple way. But really as Lucian Beebe said ( we are offering packeges for your solutions and your projects ), look for it and ask, that's simple Don't be acomplishment for this thread. Let's talk about pure mxml development dummies. On Apr 3, 2005 7:44 PM, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS: We want Flex to kick ass. More. Amen. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com http://www.flexcoder.com (Coming Soon) Yahoo! Groups Links -- Igor Costa www.igorcosta.com www.macromedia.com/go/team Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com http://www.flexcoder.com (Coming Soon) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Perhaps Macromedia are planning a version of Flex that will allow the programmer to use MXML/Actionscript to generate an SWF, without the whole Flex Server Side Application (sorry - Flex Enterprise Server!) I imagine that the price for this would still be more than Flash MX 2004 Pro say 1,200 or so. I would pay that. Of course then connecting up to a server would still be a difficult task especially when you've used Flex and its built in Flash Remoting Gatewayand experienced how easy it makes it. So small companies that build web sites and small webapps would be able to take advantage of MXML without having to use Flash to do the whole job. Of course they would still buy Flash because its good or doing animation - just look at all those Flash Banner ads. Has this option been considered at Macromedia? Simon Fifield -Original Message-From: Hans Omli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 01 April 2005 18:16To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 priceMacromedia selected the medium/large enterprise as the beachhead toestablish Flex as a worthwhile technology in the marketplace. With 200customers as of December, I'd say Macromedia has been quite successfullaying this foundation. It seems to me the new pricing signals an evengreater focus on this market segment as Flex moves from a technology used byinnovators (most of us here) to a product for early adopters. Since earlyadopters are most willing to pay high prices for the right to use a newproduct, the new pricing seems to make sense. I had expected new pricing inthe 2.0 timeframe since this would be a natural point for transitioning froma technology to a product focus, but can see that early adopters areprobably more interested in development support than they are in additionalfunctionality at this point in the adoption life cycle. So, from thatstandpoint, the recent price changes combined with bundled support make awhole lot of business sense.Most of the friction around Flex pricing is more a question of target marketthan anything else, with the high level of friction in forums like thisindicating to me there is significant demand for technology like Flex comingfrom many other markets outside of medium/large enterprises. I will becurious to see if/how Macromedia expands Flex into a more mainstream market.I suppose in some sense this has already begun with the limited use of Flexin ColdFusion MX 7. Nonetheless, it seems there is still quite a bit ofmoney on the table for Laszlo and others to pursue... at least for now. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Simon, It is possible, currently, to use Flex with FlashORB for remoting. Apart from the license, its perfectly capable of being a standalone product mxmlc.exe is the compiler, I imagine a simple GUI for that would be all one would need. Technically sensible, but I think Macromedia want to regain some of their investment and let the current incarnation mature somewhat. As Hans mentions below, Im sure Macromedia are aware that Flex could provide massive benefit outside of their current focus. Well see, I guess J Robert From: Simon Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 April 2005 07:30 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Perhaps Macromedia are planning a version of Flex that will allow the programmer to use MXML/Actionscript to generate an SWF, without the whole Flex Server Side Application (sorry - Flex Enterprise Server!) I imagine that the price for this would still be more than Flash MX 2004 Pro say £1,200 or so. I would pay that. Of course then connecting up to a server would still be a difficult task especially when you've used Flex and its built in Flash Remoting Gatewayand experienced how easy it makes it. So small companies that build web sites and small webapps would be able to take advantage of MXML without having to use Flash to do the whole job. Of course they would still buy Flash because its good or doing animation - just look at all those Flash Banner ads. Has this option been considered at Macromedia? Simon Fifield -Original Message- From: Hans Omli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 April 2005 18:16 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Macromedia selected the medium/large enterprise as the beachhead to establish Flex as a worthwhile technology in the marketplace. With 200 customers as of December, I'd say Macromedia has been quite successful laying this foundation. It seems to me the new pricing signals an even greater focus on this market segment as Flex moves from a technology used by innovators (most of us here) to a product for early adopters. Since early adopters are most willing to pay high prices for the right to use a new product, the new pricing seems to make sense. I had expected new pricing in the 2.0 timeframe since this would be a natural point for transitioning from a technology to a product focus, but can see that early adopters are probably more interested in development support than they are in additional functionality at this point in the adoption life cycle. So, from that standpoint, the recent price changes combined with bundled support make a whole lot of business sense. Most of the friction around Flex pricing is more a question of target market than anything else, with the high level of friction in forums like this indicating to me there is significant demand for technology like Flex coming from many other markets outside of medium/large enterprises. I will be curious to see if/how Macromedia expands Flex into a more mainstream market. I suppose in some sense this has already begun with the limited use of Flex in ColdFusion MX 7. Nonetheless, it seems there is still quite a bit of money on the table for Laszlo and others to pursue... at least for now. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Good point Robert. Regards, Simon -Original Message-From: Robert Stuttaford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 01 April 2005 18:46To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Simon, It is possible, currently, to use Flex with FlashORB for remoting. Apart from the license, its perfectly capable of being a standalone product mxmlc.exe is the compiler, I imagine a simple GUI for that would be all one would need. Technically sensible, but I think Macromedia want to regain some of their investment and let the current incarnation mature somewhat. As Hans mentions below, Im sure Macromedia are aware that Flex could provide massive benefit outside of their current focus. Well see, I guess J Robert From: Simon Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 April 2005 07:30 PMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Perhaps Macromedia are planning a version of Flex that will allow the programmer to use MXML/Actionscript to generate an SWF, without the whole Flex Server Side Application (sorry - Flex Enterprise Server!) I imagine that the price for this would still be more than Flash MX 2004 Pro say £1,200 or so. I would pay that. Of course then connecting up to a server would still be a difficult task especially when you've used Flex and its built in Flash Remoting Gatewayand experienced how easy it makes it. So small companies that build web sites and small webapps would be able to take advantage of MXML without having to use Flash to do the whole job. Of course they would still buy Flash because its good or doing animation - just look at all those Flash Banner ads. Has this option been considered at Macromedia? Simon Fifield -Original Message-From: Hans Omli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 01 April 2005 18:16To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Macromedia selected the medium/large enterprise as the beachhead toestablish Flex as a worthwhile technology in the marketplace. With 200customers as of December, I'd say Macromedia has been quite successfullaying this foundation. It seems to me the new pricing signals an evengreater focus on this market segment as Flex moves from a technology used byinnovators (most of us here) to a product for early adopters. Since earlyadopters are most willing to pay high prices for the right to use a newproduct, the new pricing seems to make sense. I had expected new pricing inthe 2.0 timeframe since this would be a natural point for transitioning froma technology to a product focus, but can see that early adopters areprobably more interested in development support than they are in additionalfunctionality at this point in the adoption life cycle. So, from thatstandpoint, the recent price changes combined with bundled support make awhole lot of business sense.Most of the friction around Flex pricing is more a question of target marketthan anything else, with the high level of friction in forums like thisindicating to me there is significant demand for technology like Flex comingfrom many other markets outside of medium/large enterprises. I will becurious to see if/how Macromedia expands Flex into a more mainstream market.I suppose in some sense this has already begun with the limited use of Flexin ColdFusion MX 7. Nonetheless, it seems there is still quite a bit ofmoney on the table for Laszlo and others to pursue... at least for now. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
I was already told by our MM rep that its counted by the physical processor. Dual core is still one. M. On Apr 1, 2005 1:28 AM, Anthony Merryfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It'll be interesting what the policy will be on dual core CPUs when they arrive? T -Original Message- From: Simon Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 20:49 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price My clients have also stretched themselves to purchase the 2cpu license, which cost more than the Dual Processor server they purchased to match the spec. Now that the license for Flex is either 1 or 4 cpu does this mean that my clients are going to have to more than double the original purchase price when they need to renew their maintenance license? Or will the 1 cpu license cover the whole server? (i.e. does cpu mean server or does it mean processors?) Simon -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 18:17 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price What about a 2cpu license? Please answer. Your 'starter kit' is overkill for us. If our price is based on a minimum 4cpu price, then this is no longer a joke at all. We will have to drop Flex and never look back. We will have wasted months of training and actual development time. This is NOT a price I can justify to anyone. We're seriously disappointed in Macromedia at this time. We're a very small shop and its starting to look like Macromedia does not care about the little guy at all anymore. -- Matthew On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:00:13 -0500, Darron J. Schall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Steiner wrote: Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash, As a Flash developer, I'd like to chime in here.. The fact that Lazslo works on Flash Player 5 really isn't an issue. In fact, I'd say it's a bonus! Here's why: * Because Lazslo outputs to Flash Player 5, it has a larget target audience. See the penetration stats: http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration.html -- FP 5 is 97%. FP7 is 82% - so apps created in Laszlo have a better chance of being viewed * There are no older is slower arguments. The v7 player will play a v5 swf faster than the v5 player, because the v7 player itself is faster than the v5 player. * The internals are abstracted away. Right now your Lazslo code publishes to .swf, but it's not tied to the Flash Player in any way - there are no MovieClip references, etc in your lazslo code. In fact, you don't even use ActionScript, you write in JavaScript. There's nothing to stop someone from writing a new player and with a few tweaks to the Laszlo compilation process you could have output for that new player. When you develop an application, do you really care about the internal API calls of Flash Player 7? If I'm a Lazslo developer, I say no.. I know what tags I can use in my markup, I know what the APIs are, and I use them and get a *working* .swf file. As long as it works, that's all I care about. If SWF5 is all it takes to make it work, then that's cool. Is there anything in v7 SWF that would benefit Lazslo apps? Not really. Some of the new things added in FP 7 over FP 6 is case sensitivty, depth management functions (getNextHighestDepth..) , context menu, etc,. The biggest change would probably be embedded video, and that may be a show stopper for some.. but it's rare that an application needs video in it. FP 6 adds some things over FP5 like ShardObjects, so I can see how upgrading to v6 in that respect would be benefitical. FP 6 also added different event handlers than FP5 (.onPress, vs on (press)) - but that has 0 effect on how I code my Lazslo markup. The FP6 style event handlers are meant to make AS coding easier, but Lazslo doesn't care about that because it has it's own coding model. The fact that Lazslo accomplishes what it does on an old version of the SWF format is not a drawback, it's a benefit. There's really no reason to use SWF7 if everything you need to do can be accomplished in SWF5. The fact that Lazslo separates itself from the Flash Player is another benefit as well
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Wow, Hans, I couldnt have said it better. We really do hear you. We really are trying to make the absolute best Flex development platform possible. And focus is the whole way we are getting there. The passion in this thread has served to underscore the desirability of Flex, and for that, we truly thank you. We will continue to guide Flex development and evolution so it remains every bit as desirable during every step of its evolution. Our care in its evolution will guarantee a good experience for everyone who gets involved. Thank you Lucian From: Simon Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:50 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Good point Robert. Regards, Simon -Original Message- From: Robert Stuttaford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 April 2005 18:46 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Simon, It is possible, currently, to use Flex with FlashORB for remoting. Apart from the license, its perfectly capable of being a standalone product mxmlc.exe is the compiler, I imagine a simple GUI for that would be all one would need. Technically sensible, but I think Macromedia want to regain some of their investment and let the current incarnation mature somewhat. As Hans mentions below, Im sure Macromedia are aware that Flex could provide massive benefit outside of their current focus. Well see, I guess J Robert From: Simon Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 April 2005 07:30 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Perhaps Macromedia are planning a version of Flex that will allow the programmer to use MXML/Actionscript to generate an SWF, without the whole Flex Server Side Application (sorry - Flex Enterprise Server!) I imagine that the price for this would still be more than Flash MX 2004 Pro say £1,200 or so. I would pay that. Of course then connecting up to a server would still be a difficult task especially when you've used Flex and its built in Flash Remoting Gatewayand experienced how easy it makes it. So small companies that build web sites and small webapps would be able to take advantage of MXML without having to use Flash to do the whole job. Of course they would still buy Flash because its good or doing animation - just look at all those Flash Banner ads. Has this option been considered at Macromedia? Simon Fifield -Original Message- From: Hans Omli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 April 2005 18:16 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Macromedia selected the medium/large enterprise as the beachhead to establish Flex as a worthwhile technology in the marketplace. With 200 customers as of December, I'd say Macromedia has been quite successful laying this foundation. It seems to me the new pricing signals an even greater focus on this market segment as Flex moves from a technology used by innovators (most of us here) to a product for early adopters. Since early adopters are most willing to pay high prices for the right to use a new product, the new pricing seems to make sense. I had expected new pricing in the 2.0 timeframe since this would be a natural point for transitioning from a technology to a product focus, but can see that early adopters are probably more interested in development support than they are in additional functionality at this point in the adoption life cycle. So, from that standpoint, the recent price changes combined with bundled support make a whole lot of business sense. Most of the friction around Flex pricing is more a question of target market than anything else, with the high level of friction in forums like this indicating to me there is significant demand for technology like Flex coming from many other markets outside of medium/large enterprises. I will be curious to see if/how Macromedia expands Flex into a more mainstream market. I suppose in some sense this has already begun with the limited use of Flex in ColdFusion MX 7. Nonetheless, it seems there is still quite a bit of money on the table for Laszlo and others to pursue... at least for now. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Matt Horn wrote: An old dutch saying : Prices can only go down... Laszo/BackBase time?? Was this before or after the tulip craze? :) You can make a joke off this but i think that raising the price for your licenses more than 100% is not the smartest thing to do! It can be actually cheaper for the 4 CPU License with Gold Support but i am loosing a customer here ;-(( Good luck... Michel matt *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fbir5d/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363230/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
4CPU? Why on earth would someone like to use that on precompiled stuff? Regards, Sjors Pals Michel Jansen wrote: Matt Horn wrote: An old dutch saying : Prices can only go down... Laszo/BackBase time?? Was this before or after the tulip craze? :) You can make a joke off this but i think that raising the price for your licenses more than 100% is not the smartest thing to do! It can be actually cheaper for the 4 CPU License with Gold Support but i am loosing a customer here ;-(( Good luck... Michel matt *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fbir5d/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363230/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129g81obs/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363780/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Lucian, "4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaperthan Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support." It's like going to the car dealer ship and the guytells me that the Lexus SUVis the onlynewbase model...but don't worry...that it's still cheaper than buying2 Lexus Sedans...lol! "Finally, for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we have special pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, and this is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in working with you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interested in using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you and find the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. " It's clear for me that MM have this price for the big fishs... Small fishs like many of us needs to negociate with the sales contact and see how much might cost... I'm affraid that can't beat 12k/2 CPUs... that was still considered expensive by many potential users... I'm sure that soon the RIA - market will cool off a bit and MM will come back with special discounts, etc. Regards, ValyLucian Beebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We wanted to make a package that applies to many people for their first Flexapplication or for several smallish Flex applications. When things get bigor industrial strength, more than four is required. But this should apply tothe small and medium business and be good for those proof of conceptprojects. Lucian -Original Message-From: Sjors Pals [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:18 AMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price4CPU? Why on earth would someone like to use that on precompiled stuff?Regards,Sjors PalsMichel Jansen wrote: Matt Horn wrote: An old dutch saying : Prices can only go down... Laszo/BackBase time?? Was this before or after the tulip craze? :) You can make a joke off this but i think that raising the price for your licenses more than 100% is not the smartest thing to do! It can be actually cheaper for the 4 CPU License with Gold Support but i am loosing a customer here ;-(( Good luck... Michel matt *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fbir5d/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363230/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129g81obs/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363780/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/.Yahoo! Groups Links Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price - A Real Example of a Nearly Lost Sale
I've got a question concerning maintenance, maybe someone from MM can comment: we bought Flex 1.5 two months ago. When our maintenance period ends and we decide to extend the maintenance will the price for the new maintenance be based on the original price (12k) or the product's price at that moment in time? According to what Ian just wrote I would expect the first, is this right? Thanks, Dirk. PS One bit of good news - annual maintenance is based on the price you paid for the product, so getting it at the 'old' price means we pay less for maintenance in future years. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Surely the fact the price is going up means that it is not selling well (and possibly the whole RIA scene is not as widespread as you are led to believe). If Flex was booming the costs would come down allowing more users to adopt and Flex to continue to thrive. I would be interested to see how many people actually have purchased Flex and are using it with Gusto I bet it is not as widespread as its made out to be. From: Valy Sivec [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 15:33 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Lucian, 4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaper than Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support. It's like going to the car dealer ship and the guytells me that the Lexus SUVis the onlynewbase model...but don't worry...that it's still cheaper than buying2 Lexus Sedans...lol! Finally, for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we have special pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, and this is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in working with you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interested in using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you and find the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. It's clear for me that MM have this price for the big fishs... Small fishs like many of us needs to negociate with the sales contact and see how much might cost... I'm affraid that can't beat 12k/2 CPUs... that was still considered expensive by many potential users... I'm sure that soon the RIA - market will cool off a bit and MM will come back with special discounts, etc. Regards, Valy Lucian Beebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We wanted to make a package that applies to many people for their first Flex application or for several smallish Flex applications. When things get big or industrial strength, more than four is required. But this should apply to the small and medium business and be good for those proof of concept projects. Lucian -Original Message- From: Sjors Pals [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:18 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price 4CPU? Why on earth would someone like to use that on precompiled stuff? Regards, Sjors Pals Michel Jansen wrote: Matt Horn wrote: An old dutch saying : Prices can only go down... Laszo/BackBase time?? Was this before or after the tulip craze? :) You can make a joke off this but i think that raising the price for your licenses more than 100% is not the smartest thing to do! It can be actually cheaper for the 4 CPU License with Gold Support but i am loosing a customer here ;-(( Good luck... Michel matt *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fbir5d/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr oups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363230/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www. netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129g81obs/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr oups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363780/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www. netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Seems to me like you misunderstand the principles of supply and demand. One doesnt usually raise the price on a product that isnt selling. Quite the opposite according to most economic principles... At 10:04 AM 3/31/2005, you wrote: Surely the fact the price is going up means that it is not selling well (and possibly the whole RIA scene is not as widespread as you are led to believe). If Flex was booming the costs would come down allowing more users to adopt and Flex to continue to thrive. I would be interested to see how many people actually have purchased Flex and are using it with Gusto I bet it is not as widespread as its made out to be. -- From: Valy Sivec [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 15:33 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Lucian, 4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaper than Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support. It's like going to the car dealer ship and the guy tells me that the Lexus SUV is the only new base model...but don't worry...that it's still cheaper than buying 2 Lexus Sedans... lol! Finally, for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we have special pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, and this is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in working with you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interested in using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you and find the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. It's clear for me that MM have this price for the big fishs... Small fishs like many of us needs to negociate with the sales contact and see how much might cost... I'm affraid that can't beat 12k/2 CPUs... that was still considered expensive by many potential users... I'm sure that soon the RIA - market will cool off a bit and MM will come back with special discounts, etc. Regards, Valy Lucian Beebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We wanted to make a package that applies to many people for their first Flex application or for several smallish Flex applications. When things get big or industrial strength, more than four is required. But this should apply to the small and medium business and be good for those proof of concept projects. Lucian -Original Message- From: Sjors Pals [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:18 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price 4CPU? Why on earth would someone like to use that on precompiled stuff? Regards, Sjors Pals Michel Jansen wrote: Matt Horn wrote: An old dutch saying : Prices can only go down... Laszo/BackBase time?? Was this before or after the tulip craze? :) You can make a joke off this but i think that raising the price for your licenses more than 100% is not the smartest thing to do! It can be actually cheaper for the 4 CPU License with Gold Support but i am loosing a customer here ;-(( Good luck... Michel matt *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fbir5d/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=grhttp://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fbir5d/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr oups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363230/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www./http://www. netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129g81obs/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=grhttp://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129g81obs/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=gr oups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363780/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www./http://www. netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=31637/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/Try our new resources site! Yahoo! Groups
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
I don't see the point of this licensing change. With the old licensing: Business case A- people requiring a 2CPU license could buy it for $12 000, Business case B- people requiring a 4CPU licence could buy it for $24 000, Business case C- people requiring a 4CPU license + Gold support could buy it for more than ~$29 000. Everybody were happy. With the new licensing: Business case A- not anymore...??? Business case B- not anymore...??? Business case C (starter kit???)- people requiring a 4CPU license + Gold support could buy it for $29 000 (no big change compared to old licensing) This new pricing looks really strange to me, I don't see any improvement, it answers less business cases. The contrary would have been a much clever move: Business case D - people requiring a 1CPU license could buy it for $6 000 (a real starter kit...). I suppose that Macromedia made some statistics/business plan before to confirm this new pricing (but it looks like they are going to loose so many opportunities). Flex was already very difficult to sell based on its old price. Strange... I don't understand... Ben -Message d'origine- De : Sjors Pals [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé : jeudi 31 mars 2005 16:18 À : flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Objet : Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price 4CPU? Why on earth would someone like to use that on precompiled stuff? Regards, Sjors Pals Michel Jansen wrote: Matt Horn wrote: An old dutch saying : Prices can only go down... Laszo/BackBase time?? Was this before or after the tulip craze? :) You can make a joke off this but i think that raising the price for your licenses more than 100% is not the smartest thing to do! It can be actually cheaper for the 4 CPU License with Gold Support but i am loosing a customer here ;-(( Good luck... Michel matt *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fbir5d/M=298184.6018725.7038619.300117 6/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363230/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/ *http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129g81obs/M=298184.6018725.7038619.300117 6/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363780/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/ *http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 -- -- *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Erm, not really - it seems to be a Catch-22 system doesn't it.. Put the price up so lower sales gives still give you expected revenue... or lower the price so larger sales can give you expected revenue. Flex is goodno messing but it is pretty obvious that the demand is high for it but the cost is seriously hampering the sales... -Original Message- From: jeff tapper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 16:17 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Seems to me like you misunderstand the principles of supply and demand. One doesnt usually raise the price on a product that isnt selling. Quite the opposite according to most economic principles... At 10:04 AM 3/31/2005, you wrote: Surely the fact the price is going up means that it is not selling well (and possibly the whole RIA scene is not as widespread as you are led to believe). If Flex was booming the costs would come down allowing more users to adopt and Flex to continue to thrive. I would be interested to see how many people actually have purchased Flex and are using it with Gusto - I bet it is not as widespread as it's made out to be. -- From: Valy Sivec [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 15:33 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Lucian, 4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaper than Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support. It's like going to the car dealer ship and the guy tells me that the Lexus SUV is the only new base model...but don't worry...that it's still cheaper than buying 2 Lexus Sedans... lol! Finally, for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we have special pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, and this is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in working with you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interested in using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you and find the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. It's clear for me that MM have this price for the big fishs... Small fishs like many of us needs to negociate with the sales contact and see how much might cost... I'm affraid that can't beat 12k/2 CPUs... that was still considered expensive by many potential users... I'm sure that soon the RIA - market will cool off a bit and MM will come back with special discounts, etc. Regards, Valy Lucian Beebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We wanted to make a package that applies to many people for their first Flex application or for several smallish Flex applications. When things get big or industrial strength, more than four is required. But this should apply to the small and medium business and be good for those proof of concept projects. Lucian -Original Message- From: Sjors Pals [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:18 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price 4CPU? Why on earth would someone like to use that on precompiled stuff? Regards, Sjors Pals Michel Jansen wrote: Matt Horn wrote: An old dutch saying : Prices can only go down... Laszo/BackBase time?? Was this before or after the tulip craze? :) You can make a joke off this but i think that raising the price for your licenses more than 100% is not the smartest thing to do! It can be actually cheaper for the 4 CPU License with Gold Support but i am loosing a customer here ;-(( Good luck... Michel matt *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fbir5d/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D= grhttp://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fbir5d/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D= gr oups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363230/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://ww w./http://www. netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fle xcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129g81obs/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D= grhttp://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129g81obs/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D= gr oups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363780/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://ww w./http://www. netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price - A Real Example of a Nearly Lost Sale
Dirk, When I talked to my account manager the other day - he told me that the price you pay is the basis for future maintenance agreements. I would still check with yours. Jeff http://www.flexauthority.com - Original Message - From: Dirk Eismann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:59 AM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price - A Real Example of a Nearly Lost Sale I've got a question concerning maintenance, maybe someone from MM can comment: we bought Flex 1.5 two months ago. When our maintenance period ends and we decide to extend the maintenance will the price for the new maintenance be based on the original price (12k) or the product's price at that moment in time? According to what Ian just wrote I would expect the first, is this right? Thanks, Dirk. PS One bit of good news - annual maintenance is based on the price you paid for the product, so getting it at the 'old' price means we pay less for maintenance in future years. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
We've seen a fair number of people prototyping with Flex but few deploying 'real' applications. The price increases and limitations e.g. Internationalization will likely make prototyping the only thing we ever do with Flex even though we have purchased it. Frankly, we are considering contributing time/effort to Laszlo. -- Original message -- Surely the fact the price is going up means that it is not selling well (and possibly the whole RIA scene is not as widespread as you are led to believe). If Flex was booming the costs would come down allowing more users to adopt and Flex to continue to thrive. I would be interested to see how many people actually have purchased Flex and are using it with Gusto I bet it is not as widespread as its made out to be. From: Valy Sivec [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 15:33To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Lucian, "4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaperthan Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support." It's like going to the car dealer ship and the guytells me that the Lexus SUVis the onlynewbase model...but don't worry...that it's still cheaper than buying2 Lexus Sedans...lol! "Finally, for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we have special pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, and this is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in working with you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interested in using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you and find the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. " It's clear for me that MM have this price for the big fishs... Small fishs like many of us needs to negociate with the sales contact and see how much might cost... I'm affraid that can't beat 12k/2 CPUs... that was still considered expensive by many potential users... I'm sure that soon the RIA - market will cool off a bit and MM will come back with special discounts, etc. Regards, ValyLucian Beebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We wanted to make a package that applies to many people for their first Flexapplication or for several smallish Flex applications. When things get bigor industrial strength, more than four is required. But this should apply tothe small and medium business and be good for those proof of conceptprojects. Lucian -Original Message-From: Sjors Pals [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:18 AMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price4CPU? Why on earth would someone like to use that on precompiled stuff?Regards,Sjors PalsMichel Jansen wrote: Matt Horn wrote: An old dutch saying : Prices can only go down... Laszo/BackBase time?? Was this before or after the tulip craze? :) You can make a joke off this but i think that raising the price for your licenses more than 100% is not the smartest thing to do! It can be actually cheaper for the 4 CPU License with Gold Support but i am loosing a customer here ;-(( Good luck... Michel matt *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fbir5d/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363230/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129g81obs/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363780/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/.Yahoo! Groups Links Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Oriel House, 26 The Quadrant, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DL, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business, Registered in England, Number 678540. It contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price - A Real Example of a Nearly Lost Sale
Dirk, that is what I was told (in writing) - maintenance at 20% of the price you pay (per year). In fact we bought an additional year's maintenance with our order (the first year was included). Hope this helps. Regards Ian - Ian Welsh. Business Manager. Harlaxton College. Harlaxton, Grantham, Lincs, NG32 1AG. United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1476-403000 Fax: +44 (0) 1476-403030 Web: http://www.ueharlax.ac.uk Harlaxton College - Learning: All Together -Original Message- From: Dirk Eismann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 16:00 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price - A Real Example of a Nearly Lost Sale I've got a question concerning maintenance, maybe someone from MM can comment: we bought Flex 1.5 two months ago. When our maintenance period ends and we decide to extend the maintenance will the price for the new maintenance be based on the original price (12k) or the product's price at that moment in time? According to what Ian just wrote I would expect the first, is this right? Thanks, Dirk. PS One bit of good news - annual maintenance is based on the price you paid for the product, so getting it at the 'old' price means we pay less for maintenance in future years. Yahoo! Groups Links This E-mail scanned for viruses by Harlaxton College This E-mail scanned for viruses by Harlaxton College Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Benoit Hediard wrote: I don't see the point of this licensing change. I do. The only reasonable explaination is that Flex is selling as fast as lightning! Hire a team of M$ WebProgrammers for a few months and look at the BILLS... You will run to MM and buy Flex! MJ With the old licensing: Business case A- people requiring a 2CPU license could buy it for $12 000, Business case B- people requiring a 4CPU licence could buy it for $24 000, Business case C- people requiring a 4CPU license + Gold support could buy it for more than ~$29 000. Everybody were happy. With the new licensing: Business case A- not anymore...??? Business case B- not anymore...??? Business case C (starter kit???)- people requiring a 4CPU license + Gold support could buy it for $29 000 (no big change compared to old licensing) This new pricing looks really strange to me, I don't see any improvement, it answers less business cases. The contrary would have been a much clever move: Business case D - people requiring a 1CPU license could buy it for $6 000 (a real starter kit...). I suppose that Macromedia made some statistics/business plan before to confirm this new pricing (but it looks like they are going to loose so many opportunities). Flex was already very difficult to sell based on its old price. Strange... I don't understand... Ben -Message d'origine- De : Sjors Pals [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé : jeudi 31 mars 2005 16:18 À : flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Objet : Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price 4CPU? Why on earth would someone like to use that on precompiled stuff? Regards, Sjors Pals Michel Jansen wrote: Matt Horn wrote: An old dutch saying : Prices can only go down... Laszo/BackBase time?? Was this before or after the tulip craze? :) You can make a joke off this but i think that raising the price for your licenses more than 100% is not the smartest thing to do! It can be actually cheaper for the 4 CPU License with Gold Support but i am loosing a customer here ;-(( Good luck... Michel matt *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fbir5d/M=298184.6018725.7038619.300117 6/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363230/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/ *http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129g81obs/M=298184.6018725.7038619.300117 6/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112363780/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/ *http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 -- -- *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129qurger/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112368894/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
My guess is that you will be back. Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash, This really goes for all the competing technologies out there that are doing their best to output as a swf. MM is doing something right - they hold all the cards to the most widely accepted piece of downloaded content on the web. My guess is that they still have a few aces up their sleeves and that they will always be the power to beat (as long as the continue to devote their company's future to flash). I am also guessing that MM was prepared for this backlash - but as future iterations come out, and they show more and more of the fun stuff that they want to give us non-flash developers the ability to extend, Everyone that decided ~now to give Laszlo, et. al., a look will come back to the Flex world to see what they missed. Jeff http://www.flexauthority.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:15 AM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price We've seen a fair number of people prototyping with Flex but few deploying 'real' applications. The price increases and limitations e.g. Internationalization will likely make prototyping the only thing we ever do with Flex even though we have purchased it. Frankly, we are considering contributing time/effort to Laszlo. -- Original message -- Surely the fact the price is going up means that it is not selling well (and possibly the whole RIA scene is not as widespread as you are led to believe). If Flex was booming the costs would come down allowing more users to adopt and Flex to continue to thrive. I would be interested to see how many people actually have purchased Flex and are using it with Gusto - I bet it is not as widespread as it's made out to be. From: Valy Sivec [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 15:33 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Lucian, 4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaper than Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support. It's like going to the car dealer ship and the guy tells me that the Lexus SUV is the only new base model...but don't worry...that it's still cheaper than buying 2 Lexus Sedans... lol! Finally, for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we have special pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, and this is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in working with you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interested in using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you and find the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. It's clear for me that MM have this price for the big fishs... Small fishs like many of us needs to negociate with the sales contact and see how much might cost... I'm affraid that can't beat 12k/2 CPUs... that was still considered expensive by many potential users... I'm sure that soon the RIA - market will cool off a bit and MM will come back with special discounts, etc. Regards, Valy Lucian Beebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We wanted to make a package that applies to many people for their first Flex application or for several smallish Flex applications. When things get big or industrial strength, more than four is required. But this should apply to the small and medium business and be good for those proof of concept projects. Lucian -Original Message- From: Sjors Pals [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:18 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price 4CPU? Why on earth would someone like to use that on precompiled stuff? Regards, Sjors Pals Michel Jansen wrote: Matt Horn wrote: An old dutch saying : Prices can only go down... Laszo/BackBase time?? Was this before or after the tulip craze? :) You can make a joke off this but i think that raising the price for your licenses more than 100% is not the smartest thing to do! It can be actually cheaper for the 4 CPU License with Gold Support but i am loosing a customer here ;-(( Good luck... Michel matt *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129fbir5d/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Well i think that when MM keeps their technology for their selves that the chance is big that someone takes legal action. And there is an other danger, if MM keeps the Cards for their selves the chance is big, someone else says: lets make our own cards and spread them for free. Jeff Steiner wrote: My guess is that you will be back. Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash, This really goes for all the competing technologies out there that are doing their best to output as a swf. MM is doing something right - they hold all the cards to the most widely accepted piece of downloaded content on the web. My guess is that they still have a few aces up their sleeves and that they will always be the power to beat (as long as the continue to devote their company's future to flash). I am also guessing that MM was prepared for this backlash - but as future iterations come out, and they show more and more of the fun stuff that they want to give us non-flash developers the ability to extend, Everyone that decided ~now to give Laszlo, et. al., a look will come back to the Flex world to see what they missed. Jeff http://www.flexauthority.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:15 AM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price We've seen a fair number of people prototyping with Flex but few deploying 'real' applications. The price increases and limitations e.g. Internationalization will likely make prototyping the only thing we ever do with Flex even though we have purchased it. Frankly, we are considering contributing time/effort to Laszlo. -- Original message -- Surely the fact the price is going up means that it is not selling well (and possibly the whole RIA scene is not as widespread as you are led to believe). If Flex was booming the costs would come down allowing more users to adopt and Flex to continue to thrive. I would be interested to see how many people actually have purchased Flex and are using it with Gusto - I bet it is not as widespread as it's made out to be. From: Valy Sivec [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 15:33 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Lucian, 4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaper than Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support. It's like going to the car dealer ship and the guy tells me that the Lexus SUV is the only new base model...but don't worry...that it's still cheaper than buying 2 Lexus Sedans... lol! Finally, for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we have special pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, and this is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in working with you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interested in using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you and find the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. It's clear for me that MM have this price for the big fishs... Small fishs like many of us needs to negociate with the sales contact and see how much might cost... I'm affraid that can't beat 12k/2 CPUs... that was still considered expensive by many potential users... I'm sure that soon the RIA - market will cool off a bit and MM will come back with special discounts, etc. Regards, Valy Lucian Beebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We wanted to make a package that applies to many people for their first Flex application or for several smallish Flex applications. When things get big or industrial strength, more than four is required. But this should apply to the small and medium business and be good for those proof of concept projects. Lucian -Original Message- From: Sjors Pals [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:18 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price 4CPU? Why on earth would someone like to use that on precompiled stuff? Regards, Sjors Pals Michel Jansen wrote: Matt Horn wrote: An old dutch saying : Prices can only go down... Laszo/BackBase time
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Jeff Steiner wrote: Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash, As a Flash developer, I'd like to chime in here.. The fact that Lazslo works on Flash Player 5 really isn't an issue. In fact, I'd say it's a bonus! Here's why: * Because Lazslo outputs to Flash Player 5, it has a larget target audience. See the penetration stats: http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration.html -- FP 5 is 97%. FP7 is 82% - so apps created in Laszlo have a better chance of being viewed * There are no older is slower arguments. The v7 player will play a v5 swf faster than the v5 player, because the v7 player itself is faster than the v5 player. * The internals are abstracted away. Right now your Lazslo code publishes to .swf, but it's not tied to the Flash Player in any way - there are no MovieClip references, etc in your lazslo code. In fact, you don't even use ActionScript, you write in JavaScript. There's nothing to stop someone from writing a new player and with a few tweaks to the Laszlo compilation process you could have output for that new player. When you develop an application, do you really care about the internal API calls of Flash Player 7? If I'm a Lazslo developer, I say no.. I know what tags I can use in my markup, I know what the APIs are, and I use them and get a *working* .swf file. As long as it works, that's all I care about. If SWF5 is all it takes to make it work, then that's cool. Is there anything in v7 SWF that would benefit Lazslo apps? Not really. Some of the new things added in FP 7 over FP 6 is case sensitivty, depth management functions (getNextHighestDepth..) , context menu, etc,. The biggest change would probably be embedded video, and that may be a show stopper for some.. but it's rare that an application needs video in it. FP 6 adds some things over FP5 like ShardObjects, so I can see how upgrading to v6 in that respect would be benefitical. FP 6 also added different event handlers than FP5 (.onPress, vs on (press)) - but that has 0 effect on how I code my Lazslo markup. The FP6 style event handlers are meant to make AS coding easier, but Lazslo doesn't care about that because it has it's own coding model. The fact that Lazslo accomplishes what it does on an old version of the SWF format is not a drawback, it's a benefit. There's really no reason to use SWF7 if everything you need to do can be accomplished in SWF5. The fact that Lazslo separates itself from the Flash Player is another benefit as well.. If something should ever happen, maybe legal issues or whatever, Lazslo can output to, say, Java applets or whatever, since the code is all abstracted from the VM and the compilation process handles the dirty work of putting your code into a format the VM can understand. -d Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
What about a 2cpu license? Please answer. Your 'starter kit' is overkill for us. If our price is based on a minimum 4cpu price, then this is no longer a joke at all. We will have to drop Flex and never look back. We will have wasted months of training and actual development time. This is NOT a price I can justify to anyone. We're seriously disappointed in Macromedia at this time. We're a very small shop and its starting to look like Macromedia does not care about the little guy at all anymore. -- Matthew On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:00:13 -0500, Darron J. Schall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Steiner wrote: Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash, As a Flash developer, I'd like to chime in here.. The fact that Lazslo works on Flash Player 5 really isn't an issue. In fact, I'd say it's a bonus! Here's why: * Because Lazslo outputs to Flash Player 5, it has a larget target audience. See the penetration stats: http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration.html -- FP 5 is 97%. FP7 is 82% - so apps created in Laszlo have a better chance of being viewed * There are no older is slower arguments. The v7 player will play a v5 swf faster than the v5 player, because the v7 player itself is faster than the v5 player. * The internals are abstracted away. Right now your Lazslo code publishes to .swf, but it's not tied to the Flash Player in any way - there are no MovieClip references, etc in your lazslo code. In fact, you don't even use ActionScript, you write in JavaScript. There's nothing to stop someone from writing a new player and with a few tweaks to the Laszlo compilation process you could have output for that new player. When you develop an application, do you really care about the internal API calls of Flash Player 7? If I'm a Lazslo developer, I say no.. I know what tags I can use in my markup, I know what the APIs are, and I use them and get a *working* .swf file. As long as it works, that's all I care about. If SWF5 is all it takes to make it work, then that's cool. Is there anything in v7 SWF that would benefit Lazslo apps? Not really. Some of the new things added in FP 7 over FP 6 is case sensitivty, depth management functions (getNextHighestDepth..) , context menu, etc,. The biggest change would probably be embedded video, and that may be a show stopper for some.. but it's rare that an application needs video in it. FP 6 adds some things over FP5 like ShardObjects, so I can see how upgrading to v6 in that respect would be benefitical. FP 6 also added different event handlers than FP5 (.onPress, vs on (press)) - but that has 0 effect on how I code my Lazslo markup. The FP6 style event handlers are meant to make AS coding easier, but Lazslo doesn't care about that because it has it's own coding model. The fact that Lazslo accomplishes what it does on an old version of the SWF format is not a drawback, it's a benefit. There's really no reason to use SWF7 if everything you need to do can be accomplished in SWF5. The fact that Lazslo separates itself from the Flash Player is another benefit as well.. If something should ever happen, maybe legal issues or whatever, Lazslo can output to, say, Java applets or whatever, since the code is all abstracted from the VM and the compilation process handles the dirty work of putting your code into a format the VM can understand. -d Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. I'm on the Flex team, not the Flash team, but I think all the Flash ActionScript APIs are documented. In addition to Macromedia documentation, aren't there plenty of Flash books, ActionScript dictionaries, etc.? For example, ActionScript, The Definitive Guide by Colin Moock seems comprehensive. If there are missing Player APIs in that book, I think they're an oversight, not an intentional secret. - Gordon -Original Message- From: Jeff Steiner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:26 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price My guess is that you will be back. Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash, This really goes for all the competing technologies out there that are doing their best to output as a swf. MM is doing something right - they hold all the cards to the most widely accepted piece of downloaded content on the web. My guess is that they still have a few aces up their sleeves and that they will always be the power to beat (as long as the continue to devote their company's future to flash). I am also guessing that MM was prepared for this backlash - but as future iterations come out, and they show more and more of the fun stuff that they want to give us non-flash developers the ability to extend, Everyone that decided ~now to give Laszlo, et. al., a look will come back to the Flex world to see what they missed. Jeff http://www.flexauthority.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:15 AM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price We've seen a fair number of people prototyping with Flex but few deploying 'real' applications. The price increases and limitations e.g. Internationalization will likely make prototyping the only thing we ever do with Flex even though we have purchased it. Frankly, we are considering contributing time/effort to Laszlo. -- Original message -- Surely the fact the price is going up means that it is not selling well (and possibly the whole RIA scene is not as widespread as you are led to believe). If Flex was booming the costs would come down allowing more users to adopt and Flex to continue to thrive. I would be interested to see how many people actually have purchased Flex and are using it with Gusto - I bet it is not as widespread as it's made out to be. From: Valy Sivec [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 15:33 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Lucian, 4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaper than Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support. It's like going to the car dealer ship and the guy tells me that the Lexus SUV is the only new base model...but don't worry...that it's still cheaper than buying 2 Lexus Sedans... lol! Finally, for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we have special pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, and this is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in working with you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interested in using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you and find the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. It's clear for me that MM have this price for the big fishs... Small fishs like many of us needs to negociate with the sales contact and see how much might cost... I'm affraid that can't beat 12k/2 CPUs... that was still considered expensive by many potential users... I'm sure that soon the RIA - market will cool off a bit and MM will come back with special discounts, etc. Regards, Valy Lucian Beebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We wanted to make a package that applies to many people for their first Flex application or for several smallish Flex applications. When things get big or industrial strength, more than four is required. But this should apply to the small and medium business and be good for those proof of concept projects. Lucian -Original Message- From: Sjors Pals [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:18 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price 4CPU? Why
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
I'm confused. Are you saying I'm a Bad Guy? All I did was point out that I think everything you need to program the Flash Player from either a Flex app or a Laszlo app is documented. This might make my manager mad, but I don't understand why it would make you mad. - Gordon -Original Message- From: Anthony Merryfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:35 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Here come the Black Helicopters. :) -Original Message- From: Gordon Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 19:31 To: 'flexcoders@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. I'm on the Flex team, not the Flash team, but I think all the Flash ActionScript APIs are documented. In addition to Macromedia documentation, aren't there plenty of Flash books, ActionScript dictionaries, etc.? For example, ActionScript, The Definitive Guide by Colin Moock seems comprehensive. If there are missing Player APIs in that book, I think they're an oversight, not an intentional secret. - Gordon -Original Message- From: Jeff Steiner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:26 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price My guess is that you will be back. Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash, This really goes for all the competing technologies out there that are doing their best to output as a swf. MM is doing something right - they hold all the cards to the most widely accepted piece of downloaded content on the web. My guess is that they still have a few aces up their sleeves and that they will always be the power to beat (as long as the continue to devote their company's future to flash). I am also guessing that MM was prepared for this backlash - but as future iterations come out, and they show more and more of the fun stuff that they want to give us non-flash developers the ability to extend, Everyone that decided ~now to give Laszlo, et. al., a look will come back to the Flex world to see what they missed. Jeff http://www.flexauthority.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:15 AM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price We've seen a fair number of people prototyping with Flex but few deploying 'real' applications. The price increases and limitations e.g. Internationalization will likely make prototyping the only thing we ever do with Flex even though we have purchased it. Frankly, we are considering contributing time/effort to Laszlo. -- Original message -- Surely the fact the price is going up means that it is not selling well (and possibly the whole RIA scene is not as widespread as you are led to believe). If Flex was booming the costs would come down allowing more users to adopt and Flex to continue to thrive. I would be interested to see how many people actually have purchased Flex and are using it with Gusto - I bet it is not as widespread as it's made out to be. From: Valy Sivec [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 15:33 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Lucian, 4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaper than Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support. It's like going to the car dealer ship and the guy tells me that the Lexus SUV is the only new base model...but don't worry...that it's still cheaper than buying 2 Lexus Sedans... lol! Finally, for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we have special pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, and this is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in working with you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interested in using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you and find the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. It's clear for me that MM have this price for the big fishs... Small fishs like many of us needs to negociate with the sales contact and see how much might cost... I'm affraid that can't beat 12k/2 CPUs... that was still considered expensive by many potential users
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
To Matthew below, certainly this is not a joke. But where you have been working on something great, lets talk. I'll contact you off line. On Laszlo, I am not going to start a whole Flex vs Laszlo discussion here, but suffice it to say that there are a lot of benefits for Flash Player 7 *if* you take advantage of them. Simply compiling a Flash Player 5 application for Flash Player 7 won't help a lot. There are values in accessibility, remote object binary protocols, performance optimizations, and dozens more, that all require lots of changes to leverage the new capabilities in Flash Player 7. We have most certainly done those all and many more in Flex 1.5. Finally, to the question of whether Flex is selling or not. The economists on this list have it right. We are selling Flex in great numbers. You may have seen that in December, we had over 200 customers. As a public company in the US, we are not allowed to give you specific updates, but suffice it to say that we are very excited about the success we are seeing and that has just encouraged us to adjust pricing and commitment in line with that success. Lucian -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:17 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price What about a 2cpu license? Please answer. Your 'starter kit' is overkill for us. If our price is based on a minimum 4cpu price, then this is no longer a joke at all. We will have to drop Flex and never look back. We will have wasted months of training and actual development time. This is NOT a price I can justify to anyone. We're seriously disappointed in Macromedia at this time. We're a very small shop and its starting to look like Macromedia does not care about the little guy at all anymore. -- Matthew On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:00:13 -0500, Darron J. Schall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Steiner wrote: Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash, As a Flash developer, I'd like to chime in here.. The fact that Lazslo works on Flash Player 5 really isn't an issue. In fact, I'd say it's a bonus! Here's why: * Because Lazslo outputs to Flash Player 5, it has a larget target audience. See the penetration stats: http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetra tion.html -- FP 5 is 97%. FP7 is 82% - so apps created in Laszlo have a better chance of being viewed * There are no older is slower arguments. The v7 player will play a v5 swf faster than the v5 player, because the v7 player itself is faster than the v5 player. * The internals are abstracted away. Right now your Lazslo code publishes to .swf, but it's not tied to the Flash Player in any way - there are no MovieClip references, etc in your lazslo code. In fact, you don't even use ActionScript, you write in JavaScript. There's nothing to stop someone from writing a new player and with a few tweaks to the Laszlo compilation process you could have output for that new player. When you develop an application, do you really care about the internal API calls of Flash Player 7? If I'm a Lazslo developer, I say no.. I know what tags I can use in my markup, I know what the APIs are, and I use them and get a *working* .swf file. As long as it works, that's all I care about. If SWF5 is all it takes to make it work, then that's cool. Is there anything in v7 SWF that would benefit Lazslo apps? Not really. Some of the new things added in FP 7 over FP 6 is case sensitivty, depth management functions (getNextHighestDepth..) , context menu, etc,. The biggest change would probably be embedded video, and that may be a show stopper for some.. but it's rare that an application needs video in it. FP 6 adds some things over FP5 like ShardObjects, so I can see how upgrading to v6 in that respect would be benefitical. FP 6 also added different event handlers than FP5 (.onPress, vs on (press)) - but that has 0 effect on how I code my Lazslo markup. The FP6 style event handlers are meant to make AS coding easier, but Lazslo doesn't care about that because it has it's own coding model. The fact that Lazslo accomplishes what it does on an old version of the SWF format is not a drawback, it's a benefit. There's really no reason to use SWF7 if everything you
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
damn. either this is too good for an april fools joke, or as russel peters said, somebody gonna get-a-hurt real bad :) pushkar -- www.pushkar.net My World, Your View! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
As I already said this is no joke to me or my department. -- Matthew On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:43:38 -0500, Pushkar Phatak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: damn. either this is too good for an april fools joke, or as russel peters said, somebody gonna get-a-hurt real bad :) pushkar -- www.pushkar.net My World, Your View! Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
My clients have also stretched themselves to purchase the 2cpu license, which cost more than theDual Processor server they purchased to match the spec. Now that the license for Flex is either 1 or 4 cpu does this mean that my clients are going to have to more than double the original purchase price when they need to renew their maintenance license? Or will the 1 cpu license cover the whole server? (i.e. does cpu mean server or does it mean processors?) Simon -Original Message-From: Matthew Shirey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 31 March 2005 18:17To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 priceWhat about a 2cpu license? Please answer. Your 'starter kit' isoverkill for us. If our price is based on a minimum 4cpu price, thenthis is no longer a joke at all. We will have to drop Flex and neverlook back. We will have wasted months of training and actualdevelopment time. This is NOT a price I can justify to anyone.We're seriously disappointed in Macromedia at this time. We're a verysmall shop and its starting to look like Macromedia does not careabout the little guy at all anymore.-- MatthewOn Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:00:13 -0500, Darron J. Schall[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Steiner wrote: Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash, As a Flash developer, I'd like to chime in here.. The fact that Lazslo works on Flash Player 5 really isn't an issue. In fact, I'd say it's a bonus! Here's why: * Because Lazslo outputs to Flash Player 5, it has a larget target audience. See the penetration stats: http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration.html -- FP 5 is 97%. FP7 is 82% - so apps created in Laszlo have a better chance of being viewed * There are no "older is slower" arguments. The v7 player will play a v5 swf faster than the v5 player, because the v7 player itself is faster than the v5 player. * The internals are abstracted away. Right now your Lazslo code publishes to .swf, but it's not tied to the Flash Player in any way - there are no MovieClip references, etc in your lazslo code. In fact, you don't even use ActionScript, you write in _javascript_. There's nothing to stop someone from writing a new "player" and with a few tweaks to the Laszlo compilation process you could have output for that new player. When you develop an application, do you really care about the internal API calls of Flash Player 7? If I'm a Lazslo developer, I say no.. I know what tags I can use in my markup, I know what the APIs are, and I use them and get a *working* .swf file. As long as it works, that's all I care about. If SWF5 is all it takes to make it work, then that's cool. Is there anything in v7 SWF that would benefit Lazslo apps? Not really. Some of the new things added in FP 7 over FP 6 is case sensitivty, depth management functions (getNextHighestDepth..) , context menu, etc,. The biggest change would probably be embedded video, and that may be a show stopper for some.. but it's rare that an "application" needs video in it. FP 6 adds some things over FP5 like ShardObjects, so I can see how upgrading to v6 in that respect would be benefitical. FP 6 also added different event handlers than FP5 (.onPress, vs on (press)) - but that has 0 effect on how I code my Lazslo markup. The FP6 style event handlers are meant to make AS coding easier, but Lazslo doesn't care about that because it has it's own coding model. The fact that Lazslo accomplishes what it does on an old version of the SWF format is not a drawback, it's a benefit. There's really no reason to use SWF7 if everything you need to do can be accomplished in SWF5. The fact that Lazslo separates itself from the Flash Player is another benefit as well.. If something should ever happen, maybe legal issues or whatever, Lazslo can output to, say, Java applets or whatever, since the code is all abstracted from the VM and the compilation process handles the dirty work of putting your code into a format the VM can understand. -d Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Maintenance will be calculated based on the CPUs or Quick Start price if you go that route. . I think thats pretty consistent with other software industry norms. Ill make you the same offer, Simon. Where you have serious projects running, lets talk directly and find a way to make this work out. Lucian From: Simon Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:49 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price My clients have also stretched themselves to purchase the 2cpu license, which cost more than theDual Processor server they purchased to match the spec. Now that the license for Flex is either 1 or 4 cpu does this mean that my clients are going to have to more than double the original purchase price when they need to renew their maintenance license? Or will the 1 cpu license cover the whole server? (i.e. does cpu mean server or does it mean processors?) Simon -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 18:17 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price What about a 2cpu license? Please answer. Your 'starter kit' is overkill for us. If our price is based on a minimum 4cpu price, then this is no longer a joke at all. We will have to drop Flex and never look back. We will have wasted months of training and actual development time. This is NOT a price I can justify to anyone. We're seriously disappointed in Macromedia at this time. We're a very small shop and its starting to look like Macromedia does not care about the little guy at all anymore. -- Matthew On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:00:13 -0500, Darron J. Schall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Steiner wrote: Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash, As a Flash developer, I'd like to chime in here.. The fact that Lazslo works on Flash Player 5 really isn't an issue. In fact, I'd say it's a bonus! Here's why: * Because Lazslo outputs to Flash Player 5, it has a larget target audience. See the penetration stats: http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration.html -- FP 5 is 97%. FP7 is 82% - so apps created in Laszlo have a better chance of being viewed * There are no older is slower arguments. The v7 player will play a v5 swf faster than the v5 player, because the v7 player itself is faster than the v5 player. * The internals are abstracted away. Right now your Lazslo code publishes to .swf, but it's not tied to the Flash Player in any way - there are no MovieClip references, etc in your lazslo code. In fact, you don't even use ActionScript, you write in _javascript_. There's nothing to stop someone from writing a new player and with a few tweaks to the Laszlo compilation process you could have output for that new player. When you develop an application, do you really care about the internal API calls of Flash Player 7? If I'm a Lazslo developer, I say no.. I know what tags I can use in my markup, I know what the APIs are, and I use them and get a *working* .swf file. As long as it works, that's all I care about. If SWF5 is all it takes to make it work, then that's cool. Is there anything in v7 SWF that would benefit Lazslo apps? Not really. Some of the new things added in FP 7 over FP 6 is case sensitivty, depth management functions (getNextHighestDepth..) , context menu, etc,. The biggest change would probably be embedded video, and that may be a show stopper for some.. but it's rare that an application needs video in it. FP 6 adds some things over FP5 like ShardObjects, so I can see how upgrading to v6 in that respect would be benefitical. FP 6 also added different event handlers than FP5 (.onPress, vs on (press)) - but that has 0 effect on how I code my Lazslo markup. The FP6 style event handlers are meant to make AS coding easier, but Lazslo doesn't care about that because it has it's own coding model. The fact that Lazslo accomplishes what it does on an old version of the SWF format is not a drawback, it's a benefit. There's really no reason to use SWF7 if everything you need to do can be accomplished in SWF5. The fact that Lazslo separates itself from the Flash Player is another benefit as well.. If something should ever happen, maybe legal
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
I am more than a little frustrated about this... why don't we discuss it right here publically? Why is there a pricing scheme that is private interview based? I just want to know: Is there a 1CPU price? If so, what is it? Is there a 2CPU price? If so, what is it? These are not difficult questions. If there are no purchasing options available that are smaller than this 'starter kit'. Please just say so. As I already said in my private email. I need to know the answer to these questions. I have a lot of damage control to attend to. -- Matthew On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:16:43 -0800, Lucian Beebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maintenance will be calculated based on the CPUs or Quick Start price if you go that route. . I think that's pretty consistent with other software industry norms. I'll make you the same offer, Simon. Where you have serious projects running, lets talk directly and find a way to make this work out. Lucian From: Simon Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:49 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price My clients have also stretched themselves to purchase the 2cpu license, which cost more than the Dual Processor server they purchased to match the spec. Now that the license for Flex is either 1 or 4 cpu does this mean that my clients are going to have to more than double the original purchase price when they need to renew their maintenance license? Or will the 1 cpu license cover the whole server? (i.e. does cpu mean server or does it mean processors?) Simon -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 18:17 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price What about a 2cpu license? Please answer. Your 'starter kit' is overkill for us. If our price is based on a minimum 4cpu price, then this is no longer a joke at all. We will have to drop Flex and never look back. We will have wasted months of training and actual development time. This is NOT a price I can justify to anyone. We're seriously disappointed in Macromedia at this time. We're a very small shop and its starting to look like Macromedia does not care about the little guy at all anymore. -- Matthew On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:00:13 -0500, Darron J. Schall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Steiner wrote: Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash, As a Flash developer, I'd like to chime in here.. The fact that Lazslo works on Flash Player 5 really isn't an issue. In fact, I'd say it's a bonus! Here's why: * Because Lazslo outputs to Flash Player 5, it has a larget target audience. See the penetration stats: http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration.html -- FP 5 is 97%. FP7 is 82% - so apps created in Laszlo have a better chance of being viewed * There are no older is slower arguments. The v7 player will play a v5 swf faster than the v5 player, because the v7 player itself is faster than the v5 player. * The internals are abstracted away. Right now your Lazslo code publishes to .swf, but it's not tied to the Flash Player in any way - there are no MovieClip references, etc in your lazslo code. In fact, you don't even use ActionScript, you write in JavaScript. There's nothing to stop someone from writing a new player and with a few tweaks to the Laszlo compilation process you could have output for that new player. When you develop an application, do you really care about the internal API calls of Flash Player 7? If I'm a Lazslo developer, I say no.. I know what tags I can use in my markup, I know what the APIs are, and I use them and get a *working* .swf file. As long as it works, that's all I care about. If SWF5 is all it takes to make it work, then that's cool. Is there anything in v7 SWF that would benefit Lazslo apps? Not really. Some of the new things added in FP 7 over FP 6 is case sensitivty, depth management functions (getNextHighestDepth..) , context menu, etc,. The biggest change would probably be embedded video, and that may be a show stopper for some.. but it's rare
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Hi Lucian, I will need to speak to my clients ( I can't remember if they purchased the Flex License at v1 or v1.5 ). I'm sure that there is an amicable agreement that can be reached - price increases are an ongoing problem for everyone around the world but particularly for the small to medium whoever/whatever. Although larger companies must be careful to count the pennies (therefore looking after the pounds) they are in a much better position to find the cash to make larger purchases if it makes sense in the bigger picture. I imagine ( and I may be wrong ) that most of us are a little disturbed by not being able to see a price on a tag. Hardly anyone in the UK is used to haggling, and personally I'm not keen on squeezing as much out of someone as I can. I am not the one who authorises purchases, and I imagine that most of us here are in the same boat. It just feels very uncomfortable seeing a price tag for a small bag of sweets, a price tag for a large bag of sweets, but for medium and jumbo bags you have to haggle with the shop keeper. I'm not saying its wrong - I just think that lots of developers like me have a hard time having to go back to the people who make the purchasing decisions and trying to get them to pay an unknown but considerable amount of money for something that they are not sure that they want, and we are the ones that have to persuade them that they want it. For my part, I sold Flex based on the knowledge that my clients wanted to develop their webapps using the Flash Player. My experience of creating webapps in the Flash environment was most unpleasant(especially when having to work with designers that can't program and aren't at all tidy!) so I pushed the fact that the webapps would be developed much much faster using Flex thanwith Flash. Yes, there has been a bigger learning curve than I thought, but if I had tried to do this using Flash only - well I think that I would be in a hospital room with nice padded walls to dampen the sound of my screaming! I love Flex. And I'm gladsomeone else has bought it for me to work with. Kind Regards, Simon Fifield -Original Message-From: Lucian Beebe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 31 March 2005 21:17To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Maintenance will be calculated based on the CPUs or Quick Start price if you go that route. . I think thats pretty consistent with other software industry norms. Ill make you the same offer, Simon. Where you have serious projects running, lets talk directly and find a way to make this work out. Lucian From: Simon Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:49 AMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price My clients have also stretched themselves to purchase the 2cpu license, which cost more than theDual Processor server they purchased to match the spec. Now that the license for Flex is either 1 or 4 cpu does this mean that my clients are going to have to more than double the original purchase price when they need to renew their maintenance license? Or will the 1 cpu license cover the whole server? (i.e. does cpu mean server or does it mean processors?) Simon -Original Message-From: Matthew Shirey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 31 March 2005 18:17To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price What about a 2cpu license? Please answer. Your 'starter kit' isoverkill for us. If our price is based on a minimum 4cpu price, thenthis is no longer a joke at all. We will have to drop Flex and neverlook back. We will have wasted months of training and actualdevelopment time. This is NOT a price I can justify to anyone.We're seriously disappointed in Macromedia at this time. We're a verysmall shop and its starting to look like Macromedia does not careabout the little guy at all anymore.-- MatthewOn Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:00:13 -0500, Darron J. Schall[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Steiner wrote: Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
The prices I gave below. They are $15,000 per CPU if you buy per CPU. If you want to get a package price on more than one CPU, we have the four CPU bundle called the Quick Start at $29,000. We don't have any 2-CPU pricing. Now having said that, where you are working on a Flex application that requires different deployment options, let us know. We are flexible to work with you. Please don't mistake us being flexible with wanting to keep the pricing private. The pricing is clearly stated. If you need something we don't provide, let us know because we want to work with you. Lucian -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 12:27 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I am more than a little frustrated about this... why don't we discuss it right here publically? Why is there a pricing scheme that is private interview based? I just want to know: Is there a 1CPU price? If so, what is it? Is there a 2CPU price? If so, what is it? These are not difficult questions. If there are no purchasing options available that are smaller than this 'starter kit'. Please just say so. As I already said in my private email. I need to know the answer to these questions. I have a lot of damage control to attend to. -- Matthew On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:16:43 -0800, Lucian Beebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maintenance will be calculated based on the CPUs or Quick Start price if you go that route. . I think that's pretty consistent with other software industry norms. I'll make you the same offer, Simon. Where you have serious projects running, lets talk directly and find a way to make this work out. Lucian From: Simon Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:49 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price My clients have also stretched themselves to purchase the 2cpu license, which cost more than the Dual Processor server they purchased to match the spec. Now that the license for Flex is either 1 or 4 cpu does this mean that my clients are going to have to more than double the original purchase price when they need to renew their maintenance license? Or will the 1 cpu license cover the whole server? (i.e. does cpu mean server or does it mean processors?) Simon -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 March 2005 18:17 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price What about a 2cpu license? Please answer. Your 'starter kit' is overkill for us. If our price is based on a minimum 4cpu price, then this is no longer a joke at all. We will have to drop Flex and never look back. We will have wasted months of training and actual development time. This is NOT a price I can justify to anyone. We're seriously disappointed in Macromedia at this time. We're a very small shop and its starting to look like Macromedia does not care about the little guy at all anymore. -- Matthew On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:00:13 -0500, Darron J. Schall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Steiner wrote: Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash, As a Flash developer, I'd like to chime in here.. The fact that Lazslo works on Flash Player 5 really isn't an issue. In fact, I'd say it's a bonus! Here's why: * Because Lazslo outputs to Flash Player 5, it has a larget target audience. See the penetration stats: http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetra tion.html -- FP 5 is 97%. FP7 is 82% - so apps created in Laszlo have a better chance of being viewed * There are no older is slower arguments. The v7 player will play a v5 swf faster than the v5 player, because the v7 player itself is faster than the v5 player. * The internals are abstracted away. Right now your Lazslo code publishes to .swf, but it's not tied to the Flash Player in any way - there are no MovieClip references, etc in your lazslo code. In fact, you don't even use ActionScript, you write in JavaScript. There's nothing to stop someone from writing a new player and with a few tweaks to the Laszlo
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price - A Real Example of a Nearly Lost Sale
The price for maintenance is based on the price you paid, not any new prices for new packaging that might be in place at a future date. Lucian -Original Message- From: Dirk Eismann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:00 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price - A Real Example of a Nearly Lost Sale I've got a question concerning maintenance, maybe someone from MM can comment: we bought Flex 1.5 two months ago. When our maintenance period ends and we decide to extend the maintenance will the price for the new maintenance be based on the original price (12k) or the product's price at that moment in time? According to what Ian just wrote I would expect the first, is this right? Thanks, Dirk. PS One bit of good news - annual maintenance is based on the price you paid for the product, so getting it at the 'old' price means we pay less for maintenance in future years. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Ya apparently I need to be sending out my resume to companies that can afford this stuff! :) Scott Barnes wrote: On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:02:32 +0200, Michel Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An old dutch saying : Prices can only go down... Laszo/BackBase time?? heh good luck with those, I'm not belittling th..actually I am. Think long-term, post FLEX 1.5 and what then. How far behind do you forsee products like Breeze, FlashCom, Flash Lite and even ye ol Central get intertwined with Flex in a more powerful approach. Its time in many ways to choose a technology and lets face it we are highly likely at a level in our projects that what we decide today will be our legacy for the next 2-5 years at the most? Laszlo is Flash 5.0 at the moment (or was it 6.0) and well yeah..always going to be close but no cigar with that product imho. I dunno, maybe i am in a company thats spoiling me but all said and done price models have shifted yes but not entirely convinced its a dramatically bad thing. Not saying i'd happilly wait for the day when its like 5k or something ;) Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Financially, obviously they ran their cost/market/etc analysis and came up with those numbers. I think one thing that is a risk play for MM is the intangible value of the critical mass when it comes to community knowledge. Eg there are so many Coldfusion guys that you have city level user groups all over the world. Flex has -1- for the entire planet. :) If I were buying into a brand new technology, and it's the greatest thing the world has ever seen, but as far as you know you're the only one into it - then your only source of support is the vendor. In terms of Flex dedicated sites you've got a couple of blogs, CFlex and Flex Authority. There's a long way to go! Community support is critical to technology adoption. It was the second thing my manager asked about (the first was the price), because they didn't want to invest in a technology that hardly anyone knows - puts too much dependence on one or two people. So to compensate for this, MM has been providing a lot of developer support for free in this forum - that's a huge cost when you have premium developer time spent doing a ton of emails. So by increasing the price, you're reducing the amount of potential developers, knowledge sharers, activitists, evangelists, resource sites, etc... which will result in MM having to continue dedicating heavy amounts of resources towards keeping the community floating along. It'll be interesting to see how things play out. Here's some ideas :) - LoanMX to help companies pay for Flex - Work For Licenses Program. Dedicate your coding time towards Macromedia projects in exchange for points that you can redeem for discounts on s/w. ...sigh Benoit Hediard wrote: I don't see the point of this licensing change. With the old licensing: Business case A- people requiring a 2CPU license could buy it for $12 000, Business case B- people requiring a 4CPU licence could buy it for $24 000, Business case C- people requiring a 4CPU license + Gold support could buy it for more than ~$29 000. Everybody were happy. With the new licensing: Business case A- not anymore...??? Business case B- not anymore...??? Business case C (starter kit???)- people requiring a 4CPU license + Gold support could buy it for $29 000 (no big change compared to old licensing) This new pricing looks really strange to me, I don't see any improvement, it answers less business cases. The contrary would have been a much clever move: Business case D - people requiring a 1CPU license could buy it for $6 000 (a real starter kit...). I suppose that Macromedia made some statistics/business plan before to confirm this new pricing (but it looks like they are going to loose so many opportunities). Flex was already very difficult to sell based on its old price. Strange... I don't understand... Ben -Message d'origine- De : Sjors Pals [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé : jeudi 31 mars 2005 16:18 À : flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Objet : Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price 4CPU? Why on earth would someone like to use that on precompiled stuff? Regards, Sjors Pals Michel Jansen wrote: Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
I think a more serious contender is Xamlon. Previewing on April 6th. http://news.com.com/Software+turns+.Net+to+Flash/2100-1032_3-5647420.html Jeff Steiner wrote: My guess is that you will be back. Lazslo, while the samples look great, is still based upon Flash player 5 (Beta 3 of Lazslo is player 6). It is one of those things where you have to wonder - how does Lazslo know what to extend of the Flash Player. The people that are contributing to it make guesses and try to extend the capabilities as far as they can, but they are still limited in their knowledge. I have never seen an API to the Flash player made readily available to the public. Also - as the Flash Player gets more complicated it will become more difficult to code hooks into the player to give developers the same functionality that is provided by Flex, and Breeze, and Flash, This really goes for all the competing technologies out there that are doing their best to output as a swf. MM is doing something right - they hold all the cards to the most widely accepted piece of downloaded content on the web. My guess is that they still have a few aces up their sleeves and that they will always be the power to beat (as long as the continue to devote their company's future to flash). I am also guessing that MM was prepared for this backlash - but as future iterations come out, and they show more and more of the fun stuff that they want to give us non-flash developers the ability to extend, Everyone that decided ~now to give Laszlo, et. al., a look will come back to the Flex world to see what they missed. Jeff http://www.flexauthority.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:15 AM Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price We've seen a fair number of people prototyping with Flex but few deploying 'real' applications. The price increases and limitations e.g. Internationalization will likely make prototyping the only thing we ever do with Flex even though we have purchased it. Frankly, we are considering contributing time/effort to Laszlo. -- Original message -- Surely the fact the price is going up means that it is not selling well (and possibly the whole RIA scene is not as widespread as you are led to believe). If Flex was booming the costs would come down allowing more users to adopt and Flex to continue to thrive. I would be interested to see how many people actually have purchased Flex and are using it with Gusto - I bet it is not as widespread as it's made out to be. From: Valy Sivec [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 31 March 2005 15:33 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Lucian, "4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaper than Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support." It's like going to the car dealer ship and the guy tells me that the Lexus SUV is the only new base model...but don't worry...that it's still cheaper than buying 2 Lexus Sedans... lol! "Finally, for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we have special pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, and this is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in working with you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interested in using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you and find the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. " It's clear for me that MM have this price for the big fishs... Small fishs like many of us needs to negociate with the sales contact and see how much might cost... I'm affraid that can't beat 12k/2 CPUs... that was still considered expensive by many potential users... I'm sure that soon the RIA - market will cool off a bit and MM will come back with s Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
I've owned MACR shares since Sept. It's one of my best performing stocks! JesterXL wrote: Forbes recommended that investors do so. - Original Message - From: "Michel Jansen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Lucian Beebe wrote: Finally, to the question of whether Flex is selling or not. The economists on this list have it right. We are selling Flex in great numbers. Thanx for the compliment. Although i am no economist, i'm not stupid. Just like you guys. Who is going to pull prices up if the product aint selling. The CFO that does this is the real moron! Good luck... Should i buy some shares??? Michel Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ inline: moz-screenshot.jpg
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
In terms of Flex dedicated sites you've got a couple of blogs, CFlex and Flex Authority. There's a long way to go! Your right. I didn't start messing with Flash until version 3 in school, and didn't start actually utilizing it for development projects until version 5. Flex is at 1.5... but already it rocks and I want to use it! So by increasing the price, you're reducing the amount of potential developers, knowledge sharers, activitists, evangelists, resource sites, etc... which will result in MM having to continue dedicating heavy amounts of resources towards keeping the community floating along. It'll be interesting to see how things play out. I don't know about that. I have a working version here I can use to play, learn on, and post examples for others to do the same. I'll never pay for Flex, I'll have my clients do that. The price doesn't affect my attitude towards Flex at all, although, the higher it goes up, the better I feel about the product. - LoanMX to help companies pay for Flex - Work For Licenses Program. Dedicate your coding time towards Macromedia projects in exchange for points that you can redeem for discounts on s/w. Dude, have you ever worked in a big company? Flex' price is nothing. Let me say it again, Flex' price is a drop in the bucket, no problem, not expensive, all good, no worries, not a problem. Have you ever heard of Flashcom (Flash Communication Server MX)? How about Breeze? Those same products, although different markets, still thrive where I've seen in the enterprise market. Weblogic costs...what, 10k now? Wasn't Oracle like some insane amount too? Why do you care, it's not your money! Your 2nd one is awesome though; do that, because even consulting work directly translates those points. If your an authority/talented/good/knowledgeable with Flex, and people know it, those people who wish to use it typically have money; enough to buy Flex, the needed hardware, software, back-end systems, IT and developers required for said systems, you to code the frontend, and hopefully some leftover budget for fellow developers and some designers, and information architects... ah, the list goes on. Formulating those types of groups to create enterprise level software is not cheap; you have to pay their salaries too, and at least in America, it's way more than 12k a year... that's only a few months for 1 person! - Original Message - From: Tarik Ahmed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Financially, obviously they ran their cost/market/etc analysis and came up with those numbers. I think one thing that is a risk play for MM is the intangible value of the critical mass when it comes to community knowledge. Eg there are so many Coldfusion guys that you have city level user groups all over the world. Flex has -1- for the entire planet. :) If I were buying into a brand new technology, and it's the greatest thing the world has ever seen, but as far as you know you're the only one into it - then your only source of support is the vendor. In terms of Flex dedicated sites you've got a couple of blogs, CFlex and Flex Authority. There's a long way to go! Community support is critical to technology adoption. It was the second thing my manager asked about (the first was the price), because they didn't want to invest in a technology that hardly anyone knows - puts too much dependence on one or two people. So to compensate for this, MM has been providing a lot of developer support for free in this forum - that's a huge cost when you have premium developer time spent doing a ton of emails. So by increasing the price, you're reducing the amount of potential developers, knowledge sharers, activitists, evangelists, resource sites, etc... which will result in MM having to continue dedicating heavy amounts of resources towards keeping the community floating along. It'll be interesting to see how things play out. Here's some ideas :) - LoanMX to help companies pay for Flex - Work For Licenses Program. Dedicate your coding time towards Macromedia projects in exchange for points that you can redeem for discounts on s/w. ...sigh Benoit Hediard wrote: I don't see the point of this licensing change. With the old licensing: Business case A- people requiring a 2CPU license could buy it for $12 000, Business case B- people requiring a 4CPU licence could buy it for $24 000, Business case C- people requiring a 4CPU license + Gold support could buy it for more than ~$29 000. Everybody were happy. With the new licensing: Business case A- not anymore...??? Business case B- not anymore...??? Business case C (starter kit???)- people requiring a 4CPU license + Gold support could buy it for $29 000 (no big change compared to old licensing) This new pricing looks really strange to me, I don't see any improvement, it answers less business cases
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Have you looked at FLOW? If you ask Ted about it, he'll be more than happy to discuss it, it's uses, and how you can integrate it into your projects. http://www.powersdk.com/ted/2004/09/flow-xrender-example.php - Original Message - From: Benjamin Dobler To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 4:41 PM Subject: AW: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Why no open source Flex? I mean the swf format is open. The tools are their. Merging components, creating Actionscript components It`s all doable and there is nothing magical about flex. In fact I think that a flex like system is just the next logical step for flash development. All this we need to get the enterprise developers on board is just shareholder talk. Flash developers have for a long time pushed the limits of flash and i`m sure that it`s possible to built something like flex as open source. You would say there is Laszlo but for me it`s not an alternative. I want something compatible to flex and that uses actionscript and that recognizes my components built in flash. So I want flex for free! Don`t get me wrong. I love Flex. It`s a great product but in my opinion there is enough space for an open source Project that fits for smaller (budget wise) projects. For my final thesis i`m working on such a project. I have successfully built a Linker/Loader System and an MXML parser. (I will post about the progression here www.richapps.de ) I think a real open source Flex alternative would be great even for Flex itself. It is the only way to win against the xaml, xul whatever rivals. My2Cents Benz Von: Simon Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. März 2005 23:15An: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comBetreff: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Hi Lucian, I will need to speak to my clients ( I can't remember if they purchased the Flex License at v1 or v1.5 ). I'm sure that there is an amicable agreement that can be reached - price increases are an ongoing problem for everyone around the world but particularly for the small to medium whoever/whatever. Although larger companies must be careful to count the pennies (therefore looking after the pounds) they are in a much better position to find the cash to make larger purchases if it makes sense in the bigger picture. I imagine ( and I may be wrong ) that most of us are a little disturbed by not being able to see a price on a tag. Hardly anyone in the UK is used to haggling, and personally I'm not keen on squeezing as much out of someone as I can. I am not the one who authorises purchases, and I imagine that most of us here are in the same boat. It just feels very uncomfortable seeing a price tag for a small bag of sweets, a price tag for a large bag of sweets, but for medium and jumbo bags you have to haggle with the shop keeper. I'm not saying its wrong - I just think that lots of developers like me have a hard time having to go back to the people who make the purchasing decisions and trying to get them to pay an unknown but considerable amount of money for something that they are not sure that they want, and we are the ones that have to persuade them that they want it. For my part, I sold Flex based on the knowledge that my clients wanted to develop their webapps using the Flash Player. My experience of creating webapps in the Flash environment was most unpleasant(especially when having to work with designers that can't program and aren't at all tidy!) so I pushed the fact that the webapps would be developed much much faster using Flex thanwith Flash. Yes, there has been a bigger learning curve than I thought, but if I had tried to do this using Flash only - well I think that I would be in a hospital room with nice padded walls to dampen the sound of my screaming! I love Flex. And I'm gladsomeone else has bought it for me to work with. Kind Regards, Simon Fifield -Original Message-From: Lucian Beebe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 31 March 2005 21:17To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Maintenance will be calculated based on the CPUs or Quick Start price if you go that route. . I think thats pretty consistent with other software industry norms. Ill make you the same offer, Simon. Where you have serious projects running, lets talk directly and find a way to make this work out. Lucian From: Simon Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:49 AMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price My clients have also stretched themselves to purchase the 2cpu license, which cost more than theDual Processor server they purchased to match the spec. Now that the license for Flex is either 1 or 4 cpu does this mean that my clients are going to have to more than double the original purchase
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Do you have upgrade prices for Flex 1.5 Users? -Original Message-From: Lucian Beebe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: 30 March 2005 23:51To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 priceThere has been a lot of speculation about price changes for Flex. Let's setthe record straight. As of April 1, we are adjusting the price of Flex.There are now three different packages for Flex going forward. For mostpeople, the starter kit will provide everything you need for your Flexapplications: 4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaperthan Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support. For the larger Flexapplications out there, we will sell per CPU at $15,000 per CPU. Finally,for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we havespecial pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, andthis is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in workingwith you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interestedin using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you andfind the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. In response to some of your comments, over time, we are very interested inoffering additional licensing options to broaden the range of projects anddevelopers who can leverage Flex technology. We follow the market veryclosely, and pay great attention to your constructive feedback. We all havea stake in the success of this marketplace.Why are we changing the price of Flex?We have been building, selling, and supporting Flex for a year now. Themarketplace for rich Internet applications is really taking off. Hundreds ofapplications are being delivered all over the world, and the generalinterest level is really growing out there. Within this overall marketplace, there are a variety of customer segmentsand project types with varying requirements. Large enterprise customers andsystems integration partners require substantial pre-sales engagement andongoing assistance from Macromedia commensurate with the value that theyintend to derive from the software. Small and medium size customers andindividual developers require low up front costs to get started fast andoperate within very limited IT budgets.It is important to have great offerings for each type of user. There is no"one size fits all" approach that both makes everyone successful and issustainable over the long term. A stratified approach makes the most sense,and that's what we're gradually implementing. We've adjusted our coreproduct pricing to better reflect both the value derived and the costsinvolved in driving successful projects within large enterprise customers.We've also created a starter package that combines deeply discounted Flexlicenses with high quality support designed to address the needs of largecustomers doing pilot projects or medium size customers doing fulldeployments. Please talk to us if you have special needs. We will continue to workdirectly with enterprise customers doing larger deployments or who desireEnterprise Licensing Agreements. We also have specialized offerings for ISVsdelivering packaged software solutions based on Flex. If you have a projectspecifically suited to Flex but need different packaging, please contactyour Macromedia sales rep to discuss your project and the pricing optionsthat meet your needs. If you see real value in Flex, there is probably away to make it work.Lucian BeebeFlex product managerMacromedia Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Since all Flex 1.5 customers are on a maintenance program, upgrades come for free. Lucian From: Simon Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 3:14 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Do you have upgrade prices for Flex 1.5 Users? -Original Message- From: Lucian Beebe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 March 2005 23:51 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price There has been a lot of speculation about price changes for Flex. Let's set the record straight. As of April 1, we are adjusting the price of Flex. There are now three different packages for Flex going forward. For most people, the starter kit will provide everything you need for your Flex applications: 4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaper than Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support. For the larger Flex applications out there, we will sell per CPU at $15,000 per CPU. Finally, for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we have special pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, and this is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in working with you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interested in using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you and find the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. In response to some of your comments, over time, we are very interested in offering additional licensing options to broaden the range of projects and developers who can leverage Flex technology. We follow the market very closely, and pay great attention to your constructive feedback. We all have a stake in the success of this marketplace. Why are we changing the price of Flex? We have been building, selling, and supporting Flex for a year now. The marketplace for rich Internet applications is really taking off. Hundreds of applications are being delivered all over the world, and the general interest level is really growing out there. Within this overall marketplace, there are a variety of customer segments and project types with varying requirements. Large enterprise customers and systems integration partners require substantial pre-sales engagement and ongoing assistance from Macromedia commensurate with the value that they intend to derive from the software. Small and medium size customers and individual developers require low up front costs to get started fast and operate within very limited IT budgets. It is important to have great offerings for each type of user. There is no one size fits all approach that both makes everyone successful and is sustainable over the long term. A stratified approach makes the most sense, and that's what we're gradually implementing. We've adjusted our core product pricing to better reflect both the value derived and the costs involved in driving successful projects within large enterprise customers. We've also created a starter package that combines deeply discounted Flex licenses with high quality support designed to address the needs of large customers doing pilot projects or medium size customers doing full deployments. Please talk to us if you have special needs. We will continue to work directly with enterprise customers doing larger deployments or who desire Enterprise Licensing Agreements. We also have specialized offerings for ISVs delivering packaged software solutions based on Flex. If you have a project specifically suited to Flex but need different packaging, please contact your Macromedia sales rep to discuss your project and the pricing options that meet your needs. If you see real value in Flex, there is probably a way to make it work. Lucian Beebe Flex product manager Macromedia Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
There has been a lot of speculation about price changes for Flex. Let's set the record straight. As of April 1, we are adjusting the price of Flex. There are now three different packages for Flex going forward. For most people, the starter kit will provide everything you need for your Flex applications: 4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaper than Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support. For the larger Flex applications out there, we will sell per CPU at $15,000 per CPU. Finally, for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we have special pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, and this is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in working with you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interested in using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you and find the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. In response to some of your comments, over time, we are very interested in offering additional licensing options to broaden the range of projects and developers who can leverage Flex technology. We follow the market very closely, and pay great attention to your constructive feedback. We all have a stake in the success of this marketplace. Why are we changing the price of Flex? We have been building, selling, and supporting Flex for a year now. The marketplace for rich Internet applications is really taking off. Hundreds of applications are being delivered all over the world, and the general interest level is really growing out there. Within this overall marketplace, there are a variety of customer segments and project types with varying requirements. Large enterprise customers and systems integration partners require substantial pre-sales engagement and ongoing assistance from Macromedia commensurate with the value that they intend to derive from the software. Small and medium size customers and individual developers require low up front costs to get started fast and operate within very limited IT budgets. It is important to have great offerings for each type of user. There is no one size fits all approach that both makes everyone successful and is sustainable over the long term. A stratified approach makes the most sense, and that's what we're gradually implementing. We've adjusted our core product pricing to better reflect both the value derived and the costs involved in driving successful projects within large enterprise customers. We've also created a starter package that combines deeply discounted Flex licenses with high quality support designed to address the needs of large customers doing pilot projects or medium size customers doing full deployments. Please talk to us if you have special needs. We will continue to work directly with enterprise customers doing larger deployments or who desire Enterprise Licensing Agreements. We also have specialized offerings for ISVs delivering packaged software solutions based on Flex. If you have a project specifically suited to Flex but need different packaging, please contact your Macromedia sales rep to discuss your project and the pricing options that meet your needs. If you see real value in Flex, there is probably a way to make it work. Lucian Beebe Flex product manager Macromedia Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
An old dutch saying : Prices can only go down... Laszo/BackBase time?? Lucian Beebe wrote: There has been a lot of speculation about price changes for Flex. Let's set the record straight. As of April 1, we are adjusting the price of Flex. There are now three different packages for Flex going forward. For most people, the starter kit will provide everything you need for your Flex applications: 4 CPUs and Gold Support for $29,000. That's actually cheaper than Flex was in the past for 4 CPUs + Gold Support. For the larger Flex applications out there, we will sell per CPU at $15,000 per CPU. Finally, for software vendors who want to embed Flex in their applications, we have special pricing built around your requirements and your market. However, and this is important, where you see value in Flex, we are interested in working with you to design the right packaging for your needs. If you are interested in using Flex on a real project, let us know so we can work with you and find the right packaging/pricing to fit your needs. In response to some of your comments, over time, we are very interested in offering additional licensing options to broaden the range of projects and developers who can leverage Flex technology. We follow the market very closely, and pay great attention to your constructive feedback. We all have a stake in the success of this marketplace. Why are we changing the price of Flex? We have been building, selling, and supporting Flex for a year now. The marketplace for rich Internet applications is really taking off. Hundreds of applications are being delivered all over the world, and the general interest level is really growing out there. Within this overall marketplace, there are a variety of customer segments and project types with varying requirements. Large enterprise customers and systems integration partners require substantial pre-sales engagement and ongoing assistance from Macromedia commensurate with the value that they intend to derive from the software. Small and medium size customers and individual developers require low up front costs to get started fast and operate within very limited IT budgets. It is important to have great offerings for each type of user. There is no one size fits all approach that both makes everyone successful and is sustainable over the long term. A stratified approach makes the most sense, and that's what we're gradually implementing. We've adjusted our core product pricing to better reflect both the value derived and the costs involved in driving successful projects within large enterprise customers. We've also created a starter package that combines deeply discounted Flex licenses with high quality support designed to address the needs of large customers doing pilot projects or medium size customers doing full deployments. Please talk to us if you have special needs. We will continue to work directly with enterprise customers doing larger deployments or who desire Enterprise Licensing Agreements. We also have specialized offerings for ISVs delivering packaged software solutions based on Flex. If you have a project specifically suited to Flex but need different packaging, please contact your Macromedia sales rep to discuss your project and the pricing options that meet your needs. If you see real value in Flex, there is probably a way to make it work. Lucian Beebe Flex product manager Macromedia *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129j2ujdc/M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112230157/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
hi there, latest news from macromedia sales directly : on 1st april the price will rise. eur 15K / CPU but there will be a 4 CPU license for round about eur 28K both packages contain 5 flex builder licenses... Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
url? -Original Message- From: christoph larch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 March 2005 01:25 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price hi there, latest news from macromedia sales directly : on 1st april the price will rise. eur 15K / CPU but there will be a 4 CPU license for round about eur 28K both packages contain 5 flex builder licenses... Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price [Macromedia Italy tech]
It's true Sjors, it's a strange Macromedia Conversion! but it will be difficult to find clients prepared to spend 2, with already 14000 they open wide me the eyes , despite the final product is of good impact. However I don't think that Macromedia will lower the costs, to the last Italy Macromedia Tech, has confirmed the prices and besides they wants to hold Macromedia Flex as Enterprise produced, in few words if we want a beautiful product it needs to pay it. But in many italy real case will be extremely difficult to find new or old customers (not only small firms but averages firms also) prepared to spend, especially in this Italy economical bad moment. Devis (Vicenza) Sjors Pals ha scritto: Wrong calculation ;) Its even worse in Euros 9.302 is the equivalent of $12.000. Sorry.. Sjors Pals Sjors Pals wrote: I dont know or its mentioned, but when i read the website it says: $12,000 USD or 14,400 Isn't that strange? One Euro is $1,29 So the price should be something like : 11,162 Has this something to do with export taxes or something? Regards, Sjors Pals Robert Stuttaford wrote: url? -Original Message- From: christoph larch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 March 2005 01:25 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price hi there, latest news from macromedia sales directly : on 1st april the price will rise. eur 15K / CPU but there will be a 4 CPU license for round about eur 28K both packages contain 5 flex builder licenses... Yahoo! Groups Links *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129huq3hv/M=298184.6191685.7192823.3001176/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112103135/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
What parts of mobile? Flash Lite works on many mobile devices, and you can work on it right now: http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/devices/ http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/devices/articles/flashlite_ols.html - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price When Flex came out, the joke went around that its price was a rounding error for Java folk. I suspect the Euro price is just rounded up to make the maths easier. Meanwhile is anyone involved in this beta who feels they can let the rest of in on the mobile story? http://www.cxotoday.com/cxo/jsp/article.jsp?article_id=3053cat_id=908 David David Aaron Mobile 44+7976-973-451 Skype planetzog Certified Macromedia Developer and Trainer Blog http://www.woofquackmoo.com - Original Message - From: Sjors Pals [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Wrong calculation ;) Its even worse in Euros 9.302 is the equivalent of $12.000. Sorry.. Sjors Pals Sjors Pals wrote: I dont know or its mentioned, but when i read the website it says: $12,000 USD or 14,400 Isn't that strange? One Euro is $1,29 So the price should be something like : 11,162 Has this something to do with export taxes or something? Regards, Sjors Pals Robert Stuttaford wrote: url? -Original Message- From: christoph larch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 March 2005 01:25 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price hi there, latest news from macromedia sales directly : on 1st april the price will rise. eur 15K / CPU but there will be a 4 CPU license for round about eur 28K both packages contain 5 flex builder licenses... Yahoo! Groups Links *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129huq3hv/M=298184.6191685.7192823.3001176/D= groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112103135/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://ww w.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
I am aware of Flash Lite in its current limited form but I have been hearing rumours about its replacement which should have RIA abilities. I am curious if these extend to the mobile platforms. David Aaron Mobile 44+7976-973-451 Skype planetzog Certified Macromedia Developer and Trainer Blog http://www.woofquackmoo.com - Original Message - From: JesterXL [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price What parts of mobile? Flash Lite works on many mobile devices, and you can work on it right now: http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/devices/ http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/devices/articles/flashlite_ols.html - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price When Flex came out, the joke went around that its price was a rounding error for Java folk. I suspect the Euro price is just rounded up to make the maths easier. Meanwhile is anyone involved in this beta who feels they can let the rest of in on the mobile story? http://www.cxotoday.com/cxo/jsp/article.jsp?article_id=3053cat_id=908 David David Aaron Mobile 44+7976-973-451 Skype planetzog Certified Macromedia Developer and Trainer Blog http://www.woofquackmoo.com - Original Message - From: Sjors Pals [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Wrong calculation ;) Its even worse in Euros 9.302 is the equivalent of $12.000. Sorry.. Sjors Pals Sjors Pals wrote: I dont know or its mentioned, but when i read the website it says: $12,000 USD or 14,400 Isn't that strange? One Euro is $1,29 So the price should be something like : 11,162 Has this something to do with export taxes or something? Regards, Sjors Pals Robert Stuttaford wrote: url? -Original Message- From: christoph larch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 March 2005 01:25 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price hi there, latest news from macromedia sales directly : on 1st april the price will rise. eur 15K / CPU but there will be a 4 CPU license for round about eur 28K both packages contain 5 flex builder licenses... Yahoo! Groups Links *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129huq3hv/M=298184.6191685.7192823.3001176/D= groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112103135/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://ww w.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Wrong calculation ;) Its even worse in Euros 9.302 is the equivalent of $12.000. Sorry.. Sjors Pals Sjors Pals wrote: I dont know or its mentioned, but when i read the website it says: $12,000 USD or 14,400 Isn't that strange? One Euro is $1,29 So the price should be something like : 11,162 Has this something to do with export taxes or something? Regards, Sjors Pals Robert Stuttaford wrote: url? -Original Message- From: christoph larch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 March 2005 01:25 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price hi there, latest news from macromedia sales directly : on 1st april the price will rise. eur 15K / CPU but there will be a 4 CPU license for round about eur 28K both packages contain 5 flex builder licenses... Yahoo! Groups Links *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* ADVERTISEMENT click here http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129huq3hv/M=298184.6191685.7192823.3001176/D=groups/S=1705007207:HM/EXP=1112103135/A=2593423/R=0/SIG=11el9gslf/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075 *Yahoo! Groups Links* * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
After the dot bomb companies began to scrutinize their I.T spending much more closely. You have to do your due diligence and make sure you're selecting the right technology, and part of the criteria is price. I've seen a lot of enterprises go with the second best option (features wise) because it's 3X cheaper. If the price goes up in Q2 - well Macromedia's a business and is going to do what they feel they got to do and I guess feels they have enough pricing power to make that kind of play (a public company is ultimately responsible to their shareholders). For me though, I work for a company that has deep pockets, but at the same time they're extremely careful at how they spend. Selling the company on the current price was extremely difficult - doubling the price will make it impossible. I love Flex, but a price increase will garauntee that we'll never be able to afford anymore licenses - so we'll somehow just have to live with our limited Flex environment for the time being. Our only hope would be to do sell the concept of Flex to other organizations in the company and get some combined purchasing power going on. On the flip side though, if the price does go up, I'm pretty impressed that Macr has that kind of pricing power with Flex. Either the demand is really huge and/or the companies buying it don't find it a barrier if the price is $6K/CPU vs $12K/CPU. Robert Stuttaford wrote: And all of this back-n-forth on a rumour, and one regarding something happening on April the FIRST! One thing to remember: MM made Flex for the big Enterprise-level companies. Granted, it's useful to everyone, not just these companies. I guess MM won't mind being blamed for making such awesome software and it being wanted by everyone regardless of the size of their pocket. But, it is business, and MM did decide that this was at the 'big' end of their business. From what I understand of such things (not much), $12k for 2 procs is dirt cheap compared to other ent servers... and $20k for 1 proc is still cheaper. I might be wrong :) I'm quite sure that MM won't come knocking on your door demanding another 28k if you have paid for the license already. Don't forget that there are non-com licenses for the small web-shop type companies that make it their business to build bespoke RIAs (I assume). I must admit, for me, a switch to Lazlo is scary. You might not have purchased your Flex license yet, but how much money have you already spent in developer time on Flex? Are you willing to write that off and start again? Remember, Flex servers CAN serve multiple applications. If you're concerned about the price, think longer term, and write more useful software using Flex so it earns it's keep and your ROI goes up! I'm sure that you all have one or two completely unexplored project ideas, that if given the time, would be of potentially massive benefit to your company or clients. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
And all of this back-n-forth on a rumour, and one regarding something happening on April the FIRST! One thing to remember: MM made Flex for the big Enterprise-level companies. Granted, it's useful to everyone, not just these companies. I guess MM won't mind being blamed for making such awesome software and it being wanted by everyone regardless of the size of their pocket. But, it is business, and MM did decide that this was at the 'big' end of their business. From what I understand of such things (not much), $12k for 2 procs is dirt cheap compared to other ent servers... and $20k for 1 proc is still cheaper. I might be wrong :) I'm quite sure that MM won't come knocking on your door demanding another 28k if you have paid for the license already. Don't forget that there are non-com licenses for the small web-shop type companies that make it their business to build bespoke RIAs (I assume). I must admit, for me, a switch to Lazlo is scary. You might not have purchased your Flex license yet, but how much money have you already spent in developer time on Flex? Are you willing to write that off and start again? Remember, Flex servers CAN serve multiple applications. If you're concerned about the price, think longer term, and write more useful software using Flex so it earns it's keep and your ROI goes up! I'm sure that you all have one or two completely unexplored project ideas, that if given the time, would be of potentially massive benefit to your company or clients. Personally, I won't like seeing a split in Flex to Flex-the-one-you-know-that-costs-a lot and Flex-lite-oh-god-what-have-they-taken-out-how-stupid-is-flex-without-charts/ remoting/layout management-i-cant-cope. Look at Flash and Flash Pro. Anyone out there with a copy of Flash that isn't Flash Pro? ;) It's tough, wanting something you can't afford. But yet, we cope... who knows, maybe Flex 2.0 will be worth $40k a processor and we just don't know it yet. By the way, has anyone considered the possibilities of XAMLon Flash Ed along with Darron Schall's Local Connection find? No more fscommand! No more xml sockets! No more plumbing! I for one sincerely hope more comes of Darron's discovery. My 2c. I could be totally off, but worth thinking about nonetheless. Robert Freelance developer Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Title: Could you provide a link to the press release? J From: ?? [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 March 2005 01:54 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard bad news today. Macromedia willchange Flex 1.5 price $12,000(2cpu) to $20,000(1cpu). This price will be started atapril 1, 2005. Isittrue? yang lim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
shhh.. its not suppoed to be widely known as yet ;) it could be an april fool mind you ;) On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:01:00 +0200, Robert Stuttaford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you provide a link to the press release? J From: ?? [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 March 2005 01:54 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard bad news today. Macromedia will change Flex 1.5 price $12,000(2cpu) to $20,000(1cpu). This price will be started at april 1, 2005. Is it true? yang lim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com http://www.flexcoder.com (Coming Soon) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Title: Ohh lord its that time again I started freelancing on April 1 2004 my boss thought I was trying to pull his leg! I guess that means its champagne time for me soon From: ?? [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 March 2005 01:54 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard bad news today. Macromedia willchange Flex 1.5 price $12,000(2cpu) to $20,000(1cpu). This price will be started atapril 1, 2005. Isittrue? yang lim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price in euro
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:44:26 +0100 (CET), Duccio Del Ministro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, i have another question: why flex pricing starts at $12,000 USD and in euro 14,400 (18,671.84 US Dollar taken from http://www.macromedia.com/software/flex/buy/) VAT? Regards, Dave. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price in euro
I think that VAT has nothing to do with the tag price For each country the VAT is different and will add to the tag price... Maybe for non-US markets the costs to sell/support this product is a little bit higher andit's reflected in the final price Dave Carabetta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:44:26 +0100 (CET), Duccio Del Ministro[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, i have another question: why flex pricing starts at $12,000 USD and in euro 14,400 (18,671.84 US Dollar taken from http://www.macromedia.com/software/flex/buy/)VAT?Regards,Dave.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price in euro
Maybe you don't know that $ 12,000 today are about 9,264.97 euro. That mean about 55% increase. I am sure there is a reason, maybe the costs for the support... Regards Duccio --- Valy Sivec [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that VAT has nothing to do with the tag price For each country the VAT is different and will add to the tag price... Maybe for non-US markets the costs to sell/support this product is a little bit higher and it's reflected in the final price Dave Carabetta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:44:26 +0100 (CET), Duccio Del Ministro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, i have another question: why flex pricing starts at $12,000 USD and in euro 14,400 (18,671.84 US Dollar taken from http://www.macromedia.com/software/flex/buy/) VAT? Regards, Dave. Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto più divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, Giochi, Rubrica Scaricalo ora! http://it.messenger.yahoo.it Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Our shop cannot hardly pull the current price... If it goes up I don't know what it will mean for us, but I doubt its good. We're in love with flex, but we may have to give it up if they raise the price on it like that. -- Matthew On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:25:38 +0200, Robert Stuttaford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ohh lord it's that time again I started freelancing on April 1 2004 my boss thought I was trying to pull his leg! I guess that means it's champagne time for me soon From: ?? [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 March 2005 01:54 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard bad news today. Macromedia will change Flex 1.5 price $12,000(2cpu) to $20,000(1cpu). This price will be started at april 1, 2005. Is it true? yang lim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Sounds like laszlo time :) -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:32:45 To:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Our shop cannot hardly pull the current price... If it goes up I don't know what it will mean for us, but I doubt its good. We're in love with flex, but we may have to give it up if they raise the price on it like that. -- Matthew On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:25:38 +0200, Robert Stuttaford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ohh lord it's that time again I started freelancing on April 1 2004 my boss thought I was trying to pull his leg! I guess that means it's champagne time for me soon From: ?? [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 March 2005 01:54 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard bad news today. Macromedia will change Flex 1.5 price $12,000(2cpu) to $20,000(1cpu). This price will be started at april 1, 2005. Is it true? yang lim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links Sent via BlackBerry - a service from ATT Wireless. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
I totally agree. Regards Duccio - Original Message - From: Dennis Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Sounds like laszlo time :) -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:32:45 To:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Our shop cannot hardly pull the current price... If it goes up I don't know what it will mean for us, but I doubt its good. We're in love with flex, but we may have to give it up if they raise the price on it like that. -- Matthew On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:25:38 +0200, Robert Stuttaford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ohh lord it's that time again I started freelancing on April 1 2004 my boss thought I was trying to pull his leg! I guess that means it's champagne time for me soon From: ?? [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 March 2005 01:54 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard bad news today. Macromedia will change Flex 1.5 price $12,000(2cpu) to $20,000(1cpu). This price will be started at april 1, 2005. Is it true? yang lim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links Sent via BlackBerry - a service from ATT Wireless. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.0 - Release Date: 21/03/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.0 - Release Date: 21/03/2005 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Our macromedia account rep indicated a price change on april 1, and that it would be an increase. I think he thought that would help close the sale this month. But I think it may have the opposite effect. We are taking a long hard look at laszlo right now. -Original Message- From: Kristopher Schultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:06:39 To:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Come on, Yang Lim. You can't just post a message like that and not tell us the source of the information. That's how rumors proliferate! If there isn't official mention of it on Macromedia's site then I wouldn't be too quick to assume that it is true. Kris -- Kristopher Schultz Developer Resource Interactive p: 614.410.2123 www.resource.com From: [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 6:54 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard bad news today. Macromedia will change Flex 1.5 price $12,000(2cpu) to $20,000(1cpu). This price will be started at april 1, 2005. Is it true? yang lim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Sent via BlackBerry - a service from ATT Wireless. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Laszlo it is. I expected that the price of Flex would drop, and certainly not double, this is crazy!!! Thijs Op 25-mrt-05 om 17:36 heeft Dennis Jackson het volgende geschreven: Sounds like laszlo time :) -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:32:45 To:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Our shop cannot hardly pull the current price... If it goes up I don't know what it will mean for us, but I doubt its good. We're in love with flex, but we may have to give it up if they raise the price on it like that. -- Matthew On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:25:38 +0200, Robert Stuttaford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ohh lord it's that time again I started freelancing on April 1 2004 my boss thought I was trying to pull his leg! I guess that means it's champagne time for me soon From: ?? [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 March 2005 01:54 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard bad news today. Macromedia will change Flex 1.5 price $12,000(2cpu) to $20,000(1cpu). This price will be started at april 1, 2005. Is it true? yang lim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links Sent via BlackBerry - a service from ATT Wireless. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
With Lazlo around price for Flex should go down or MM looses the ground to OpenSource. -Original Message- From: Thijs Triemstra | Collab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 9:39 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Laszlo it is. I expected that the price of Flex would drop, and certainly not double, this is crazy!!! Thijs Op 25-mrt-05 om 17:36 heeft Dennis Jackson het volgende geschreven: Sounds like laszlo time :) -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:32:45 To:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Our shop cannot hardly pull the current price... If it goes up I don't know what it will mean for us, but I doubt its good. We're in love with flex, but we may have to give it up if they raise the price on it like that. -- Matthew On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:25:38 +0200, Robert Stuttaford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ohh lord it's that time again. I started freelancing on April 1 2004 . my boss thought I was trying to pull his leg! I guess that means it's champagne time for me soon . From: ?? [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 March 2005 01:54 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard bad news today. Macromedia will change Flex 1.5 price $12,000(2cpu) to $20,000(1cpu). This price will be started at april 1, 2005. Is it true? yang lim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links Sent via BlackBerry - a service from ATT Wireless. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Can I recommend everyone waits for an official word from MM before jumping to conclusions. This is still just unconfirmed rumors... At 12:39 PM 3/25/2005, you wrote: Laszlo it is. I expected that the price of Flex would drop, and certainly not double, this is crazy!!! Thijs Op 25-mrt-05 om 17:36 heeft Dennis Jackson het volgende geschreven: Sounds like laszlo time :) -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:32:45 To:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Our shop cannot hardly pull the current price... If it goes up I don't know what it will mean for us, but I doubt its good. We're in love with flex, but we may have to give it up if they raise the price on it like that. -- Matthew On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:25:38 +0200, Robert Stuttaford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ohh lord it's that time again I started freelancing on April 1 2004 my boss thought I was trying to pull his leg! I guess that means it's champagne time for me soon From: ?? [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 March 2005 01:54 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard bad news today. Macromedia will change Flex 1.5 price $12,000(2cpu) to $20,000(1cpu). This price will be started at april 1, 2005. Is it true? yang lim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links Sent via BlackBerry - a service from ATT Wireless. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
I heard that Macromedia decided that they wee going to move Flex over to Apache to be released as an Open Source Project. ;-) -Original Message- From: Jeff Steiner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 March 2005 17:21 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard months ago that the price was going to change on April 1st. I still don't know if it will go up or down - as I have heard both from different sources. I would also guess that if the price goes up that sometime soon MM will introduce a scaled down version of Flex server to serve companies that do not have the money to spend on Flex Server now. Just my .02 Jeff http://www.flexauthority.com - Original Message - From: Dennis Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Sounds like laszlo time :) -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:32:45 To:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Our shop cannot hardly pull the current price... If it goes up I don't know what it will mean for us, but I doubt its good. We're in love with flex, but we may have to give it up if they raise the price on it like that. -- Matthew On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:25:38 +0200, Robert Stuttaford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ohh lord it's that time again I started freelancing on April 1 2004 my boss thought I was trying to pull his leg! I guess that means it's champagne time for me soon From: ?? [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 March 2005 01:54 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard bad news today. Macromedia will change Flex 1.5 price $12,000(2cpu) to $20,000(1cpu). This price will be started at april 1, 2005. Is it true? yang lim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links Sent via BlackBerry - a service from ATT Wireless. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Thanks for the information on Laszlo. It doesn't look as robust as Flex, but if they do raise the price , I doub't we'll have much choice but to switch. All we can do now is hope that its just a rumor. If not, hello Laszlo. -- Matthew On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:43:18 -0500, jeff tapper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can I recommend everyone waits for an official word from MM before jumping to conclusions. This is still just unconfirmed rumors... At 12:39 PM 3/25/2005, you wrote: Laszlo it is. I expected that the price of Flex would drop, and certainly not double, this is crazy!!! Thijs Op 25-mrt-05 om 17:36 heeft Dennis Jackson het volgende geschreven: Sounds like laszlo time :) -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:32:45 To:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Our shop cannot hardly pull the current price... If it goes up I don't know what it will mean for us, but I doubt its good. We're in love with flex, but we may have to give it up if they raise the price on it like that. -- Matthew On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:25:38 +0200, Robert Stuttaford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ohh lord it's that time again I started freelancing on April 1 2004 my boss thought I was trying to pull his leg! I guess that means it's champagne time for me soon From: ?? [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 March 2005 01:54 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard bad news today. Macromedia will change Flex 1.5 price $12,000(2cpu) to $20,000(1cpu). This price will be started at april 1, 2005. Is it true? yang lim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links Sent via BlackBerry - a service from ATT Wireless. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
Looks like Laszlo 3.0 (beta now) supports FlashPlayer 6: Flash Video and AMF, right :) Here's how to deploy it on JRun btw : http://www.openlaszlo.org/wiki/LaszloWithJrun I'm trying to do this on Mac OSX now.. Thijs Op 25-mrt-05 om 19:10 heeft Matthew Shirey het volgende geschreven: Thanks for the information on Laszlo. It doesn't look as robust as Flex, but if they do raise the price , I doub't we'll have much choice but to switch. All we can do now is hope that its just a rumor. If not, hello Laszlo. -- Matthew On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:43:18 -0500, jeff tapper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can I recommend everyone waits for an official word from MM before jumping to conclusions. This is still just unconfirmed rumors... At 12:39 PM 3/25/2005, you wrote: Laszlo it is. I expected that the price of Flex would drop, and certainly not double, this is crazy!!! Thijs Op 25-mrt-05 om 17:36 heeft Dennis Jackson het volgende geschreven: Sounds like laszlo time :) -Original Message- From: Matthew Shirey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:32:45 To:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price Our shop cannot hardly pull the current price... If it goes up I don't know what it will mean for us, but I doubt its good. We're in love with flex, but we may have to give it up if they raise the price on it like that. -- Matthew On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:25:38 +0200, Robert Stuttaford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ohh lord it's that time again I started freelancing on April 1 2004 my boss thought I was trying to pull his leg! I guess that means it's champagne time for me soon From: ?? [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 March 2005 01:54 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price I heard bad news today. Macromedia will change Flex 1.5 price $12,000(2cpu) to $20,000(1cpu). This price will be started at april 1, 2005. Is it true? yang lim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Links Sent via BlackBerry - a service from ATT Wireless. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
hehhehe funny, how we all suddnely commence a mass exodus. I won't comment on the price whether its rumour or not, but what I will comment is why I think either way it won't make that much of a difference (well its totally not my own opinion) At present in my company FLEX price tag was never a contention it was more about how will i get it into the business with minimal fuss/training required. If we were to pay $15k per CPU, then so be it. Most software we purchase thats tailored to an enterprise level is more then that - infact the intranet software we bought was higher in price and oh my, is it useless. The major selling point for us was how much $ would it take for someone to create what FLEX has on offer via DHTML or other technology - too much. FLEX is also a hard sell inside businesses. I know here in Australia the local Sales guys really have to put in the hard yards to get the sale made, and the end sale wasn't really worth the time and money invested (flights back and forth etc). I know, why not sell it much cheaper then? well again it would still require the same amount of sale - hand holding - to get over the line and at a lower price - furthermore it would have a larger takeup, which means sales folks will tied up with a lot of tyre kickers instead of real potential meaty customers. On top of this, if it was sold at $5k per CPU or something like that, there would be a lot of support required which in turn eats into profit margins for the product - recoup investments already outlayed. So in reality for a company thats publically listed and has a bunch of folk who demand profit margins, kinda damned if you do, damned if you don't. I am thankful that I have a company who is loaded with $$ so i can play with FLEX, but the future of FLEX is going to ramp up radically and so i can see pass the price tag and consider it a wise investment. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com http://www.flexcoder.com (Coming Soon) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price
We have a similar situation in that we have plenty of cash for investment, certainly more than some of the companies I have worked with in the past. The license is a small cost compared to the labor that goes into the projects. We also need to factor intraining and support and the like. I think the biggest gain with flex is the ability to have a very maliable interface that is designed to work over a service oriented architecture. However, I have a learning curve regardless of the platform I choose. I have comparable labor if I use comparable approaches architecture wise. If I use quad processor boxes (I do), and if I have at least 3 zones per production site (I do, dev stg and production) plus local developer installs then I am looking at with current list prices, at least 4 licenses totalling 48,000 per production stream. That doesn't include a 12-30k list range for the CFMX licenses we are using for the middle tier cfc layer. So I am left with the question, do I get an additional 48k of value going with Flex on top of my webservice architecture, versus the open source lazslo. And additionally do I get an additional 78k of value from flex of cfmx over using laszlo on bluedragon (with flashORB)? Then the longer term question is, given the dearth of junior and mid level CF talent do I embark on a migration to J2EE or .NET? Where will the talent levels for Flex and Laszlo be in 2 or 3 years? It is a tough question, but I can tell you this asp.net is free and pre installed, and I know it was hard to say let's spend more money to buy something that does the same function. And that was below the 10k local sign off limit. Above 10k all purchases need business cases ROI and have to be signed off at a MUCH higher level ( our NY divisional HQ) An increase from 12 to 20 would make those decisions easier in a lot of ways. -Original Message- From: Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 10:47:32 To:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex 1.5 price hehhehe funny, how we all suddnely commence a mass exodus. I won't comment on the price whether its rumour or not, but what I will comment is why I think either way it won't make that much of a difference (well its totally not my own opinion) At present in my company FLEX price tag was never a contention it was more about how will i get it into the business with minimal fuss/training required. If we were to pay $15k per CPU, then so be it. Most software we purchase thats tailored to an enterprise level is more then that - infact the intranet software we bought was higher in price and oh my, is it useless. The major selling point for us was how much $ would it take for someone to create what FLEX has on offer via DHTML or other technology - too much. FLEX is also a hard sell inside businesses. I know here in Australia the local Sales guys really have to put in the hard yards to get the sale made, and the end sale wasn't really worth the time and money invested (flights back and forth etc). I know, why not sell it much cheaper then? well again it would still require the same amount of sale - hand holding - to get over the line and at a lower price - furthermore it would have a larger takeup, which means sales folks will tied up with a lot of tyre kickers instead of real potential meaty customers. On top of this, if it was sold at $5k per CPU or something like that, there would be a lot of support required which in turn eats into profit margins for the product - recoup investments already outlayed. So in reality for a company thats publically listed and has a bunch of folk who demand profit margins, kinda damned if you do, damned if you don't. I am thankful that I have a company who is loaded with $$ so i can play with FLEX, but the future of FLEX is going to ramp up radically and so i can see pass the price tag and consider it a wise investment. -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com http://www.flexcoder.com (Coming Soon) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Sent via BlackBerry - a service from ATT Wireless. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
