Re: [fonc] Unsolved problem in computer science? Fixing shortcuts.

2014-10-09 Thread John Carlson
We may want a program which unfortunately has a path to a shortcut to still work if the files they point to are moved. On Oct 9, 2014 7:56 PM, "Pascal J. Bourguignon" wrote: > Daniel W Gelder writes: > > > The original question seems to be how to maintain links when the file > > is moved or rena

Re: [fonc] Unsolved problem solved in mac os x

2014-10-05 Thread John Carlson
Next: what if the file system operation is a copy paste cut - old operation? Sounds like we may be back to copying garbage collectors. On Oct 5, 2014 6:00 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > This Mac OSX feature sounds exactly what I am looking for. Thanks! > -- F

[fonc] Unsolved problem solved in mac os x

2014-10-05 Thread John Carlson
This Mac OSX feature sounds exactly what I am looking for. Thanks! -- Forwarded message -- From: "JD Paley" Date: Oct 5, 2014 10:05 AM Subject: A response (post rejected by autom. list mgr) To: "John Carlson" Cc: Subject: Re: [fonc] Unsolved problem in comp

Re: [fonc] Unsolved problem in computer science? Fixing shortcuts.

2014-10-05 Thread John Carlson
ying garbage collectors which need to > keep track of references while moving objects around. Probably looking into > how that is solved will provide some insight. > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 12:35 PM, John Carlson wrote: > >> Not obvious to me. Are you saying a folder of shortcut

Re: [fonc] Unsolved problem in computer science? Fixing shortcuts.

2014-10-05 Thread John Carlson
than that though. On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote: > Isn't the obvious answer to use indirect addressing via a directory? > > John Carlson wrote: > >> To put the problem in entirely file system terminology, What happens to a >> folder with s

[fonc] Unsolved problem in computer science? Fixing shortcuts.

2014-10-05 Thread John Carlson
, but I'm not entirely clear. I have no idea why I am posting this to cap-talk. There may be some capability issues that I haven't thought of yet. Or perhaps the capability folks have already solved this. For your consideration, John Carlson _

Re: [fonc] I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn

2014-09-25 Thread John Carlson
Oops. Too many check boxes to uncheck. Sorry. On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:15 AM, John Carlson wrote: > > >[image: LinkedIn] > <http://www.linkedin.com/blink

[fonc] I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn

2014-09-25 Thread John Carlson
Hi Fundamentals, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - John Accept: http://www.linkedin.com/blink?simpleRedirect=3wQdzkVcj4VdjkSejsTe30OejkZh4BKrSBQonhFtCVF9AwTcjBEqnh9fnBBiShBsC5EsOpQsSlRpRZBt6BSrCAZqSkConhzbmlQqnpKqiRQsSlRpORIrmkZpSVFqSdxsDgCpnhFtCV9pSlipn9Mfm4Cqj8Ju3c

[fonc] Avaz freespeech

2014-03-11 Thread John Carlson
Maybe you've seen the TED talk on http://avazapp.com/freespeech/ it appears to be something like intentional software for natural language. You design what you are trying to communicate using icons and answering questions to relate the icons. Once the meaning is captured, the English is generated

Re: [fonc] Xml to git: the interesting bit

2014-03-07 Thread John Carlson
>From what I've read, git uses a DAG. I'm not quite sure what makes it better than XML except people love to hate XML. I think people who embrace c, c++, java have tended to jump on the xml bandwagon because those languages suck at doing things like xml, unless you enjoy using arrays of object ar

Re: [fonc] Xml to git

2014-03-06 Thread John Carlson
On google plus. Sorry. On Mar 6, 2014 11:22 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > See Linus Torvalds post on making git a replacement for xml on the > subsurface project. > ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc

[fonc] Xml to git

2014-03-06 Thread John Carlson
See Linus Torvalds post on making git a replacement for xml on the subsurface project. ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc

Re: [fonc] Evolutionary Debugging :.

2014-01-17 Thread John Carlson
AM, "Chris Warburton" wrote: > Martin McClure writes: > > > On 01/16/2014 10:58 AM, John Carlson wrote: > >> What I was thinking was evolving space travel. If it is a physics > >> engine, could it evolve warp drive? Rockets? > > > > It'd

Re: [fonc] Evolutionary Debugging :.

2014-01-16 Thread John Carlson
What I was thinking was evolving space travel. If it is a physics engine, could it evolve warp drive? Rockets? On Jan 16, 2014 4:27 AM, "Chris Warburton" wrote: > John Carlson writes: > > > I'm not sure why evolving explosions is a bug. You just want to make > s

Re: [fonc] Evolutionary Debugging :.

2014-01-15 Thread John Carlson
I'm not sure why evolving explosions is a bug. You just want to make sure you survive afterwards. On Jan 9, 2014 9:29 AM, "Chris Warburton" wrote: > Pavel Bažant writes: > > > I am developing an evolutionary simulation called Evoversum. An > interesting > > thing I noticed on multiple occasions

[fonc] POL/DSL for security

2014-01-06 Thread John Carlson
Is anyone interested in a POL/DSL for security? What's out there now? I am thinking of a language which describes attacks, defenses, and vunerabilities (and perhaps superpowers), as well as faux-attacks, faux-defenses, and faux-vunerabilities (and perhaps faux-superpowers). A Granovetter diagra

Re: [fonc] Task management in a world without apps.

2013-10-31 Thread John Carlson
Essentially a problem oriented window is what you want. In something like Lively Kernel, this becomes a problem oriented widget. On Oct 31, 2013 10:30 AM, "Casey Ransberger" wrote: > A fun, but maybe idealistic idea: an "application" of a computer should > just be what one decides to do with it

Re: [fonc] Compiling COLA on x86_64

2013-10-10 Thread John Carlson
Or just copy the i386 file to name it's expecting. On Oct 10, 2013 8:18 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > Symlink might help > On Oct 10, 2013 8:15 PM, "Simon Forman" wrote: > >> I checked out COLA from http://piumarta.com/svn2/idst/trunk and tried >> com

Re: [fonc] Compiling COLA on x86_64

2013-10-10 Thread John Carlson
Symlink might help On Oct 10, 2013 8:15 PM, "Simon Forman" wrote: > I checked out COLA from http://piumarta.com/svn2/idst/trunk and tried > compiling but I encountered an error. > > cp -p CodeGenerator-x86_64.st CodeGenerator-local.st > cp: cannot stat `CodeGenerator-x86_64.st': No such file or d

Re: [fonc] Personal Programming Environment as Extension of Self

2013-09-24 Thread John Carlson
el escapes are too easy to handle incorrectly, and too difficult to >>> inspect for correctness. I'm currently contemplating a potential solution: >>> require all literal text to use balanced `{` and `}` characters, and use >>> post-processing in ABC to introduc

Re: [fonc] Personal Programming Environment as Extension of Self

2013-09-23 Thread John Carlson
aphics as a common artifact structure, and just > as easily leveraged for any explanation as text (though I imagine most such > graphics will also have text associated). > > Can you explain your concern? > On Sep 23, 2013 8:16 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > >> Don'

Re: [fonc] Personal Programming Environment as Extension of Self

2013-09-23 Thread John Carlson
Don't forget that words can be images, vector graphics or 3D graphics. If you have an open system, then people will incorporate names/symbols. I'm not sure you want to avoid symbolic processing, but that's your choice. I'm reminded of the omgcraft ad for cachefly. John On Sep 23, 2013 8:11 PM, "

Re: [fonc] Personal Programming Environment as Extension of Self

2013-09-23 Thread John Carlson
I think you're taking the right approach with concatenation. Don't make the mistake people made with UIMS. On Sep 23, 2013 1:47 PM, "David Barbour" wrote: > John, I'll explain a few points that lead me to favor a bytecode: > > 1) I think distribution in an intermediate language is inevitable. As

Re: [fonc] Software Crisis (was Re: Final STEP progress report abandoned?)

2013-09-10 Thread John Carlson
art for signals on the UI > side. I've been wondering how to get a lot of useful control signals > quickly... Maybe integrate with ROS from WillowGarage? > On Sep 10, 2013 10:54 AM, "John Carlson" wrote: > >> To unify PL and UI: >> >> values: Date Calculator, St

Re: [fonc] Software Crisis (was Re: Final STEP progress report abandoned?)

2013-09-10 Thread John Carlson
Minecraft world take up? Has anyone done calculations? Could it fit on a raspberry pi like machine? This may be relevant: http://pi.minecraft.net/ :(requires X11 apparently) John On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 12:54 PM, John Carlson wrote: > To unify PL and UI: > > values: Date Calculato

Re: [fonc] Software Crisis (was Re: Final STEP progress report abandoned?)

2013-09-10 Thread John Carlson
semantics, and a gap > between them bridged with arcane logic. > > To unify PL and UI, widgets must *be* values, behaviors, signals, code. > > And any "looking under the hood" must be formally represented as > reflection or introspection, just as it would be in a PL. &g

Re: [fonc] Software Crisis (was Re: Final STEP progress report abandoned?)

2013-09-10 Thread John Carlson
2013 at 12:54 PM, John Carlson wrote: > To unify PL and UI: > > values: Date Calculator, String Calculator, Numeric Calculator, > Zipper/Document Visualizer > behavior, code: Recorder (the container), Script, > Branch/Table/Conditional/Recursion/Procedure/Function/Method (Unif

Re: [fonc] Software Crisis (was Re: Final STEP progress report abandoned?)

2013-09-10 Thread John Carlson
mail got sent too fast...from "Watch What I Do": http://acypher.com/wwid/Chapters/05SmallStar.html On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:36 AM, John Carlson wrote: > Here's a short description, if you don't want to haul through the entire > thesis: > > > > On Mon, S

Re: [fonc] Software Crisis (was Re: Final STEP progress report abandoned?)

2013-09-10 Thread John Carlson
Here's a short description, if you don't want to haul through the entire thesis: On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 7:54 PM, Alan Kay wrote: > Check out "Smallstar" by Dan Halbert at Xerox PARC (written up in a PARC > "bluebook") > > Cheers, > > Alan >

[fonc] Fwd: Re: Programming by Demonstration (was Software Crisis (was Re: Final STEP progress report abandoned?))

2013-09-09 Thread John Carlson
-- Forwarded message -- From: "John Carlson" Date: Sep 9, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Programming by Demonstration (was Software Crisis (was Re: Final STEP progress report abandoned?)) To: "Alan Kay" Cc: Thanks, Alan, for this reference. It looks

Re: [fonc] Software Crisis (was Re: Final STEP progress report abandoned?)

2013-09-09 Thread John Carlson
The trick here is to make the zippers at the meta or schema level. John On Sep 9, 2013 6:03 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > Also, you could have an input zipper, a flippable conversion area, an > output zipper, and a history of conversion stack. > On Sep 9, 2013 5:11 PM, &qu

Re: [fonc] Software Crisis (was Re: Final STEP progress report abandoned?)

2013-09-09 Thread John Carlson
Also, you could have an input zipper, a flippable conversion area, an output zipper, and a history of conversion stack. On Sep 9, 2013 5:11 PM, "David Barbour" wrote: > I like Paul's idea here - form a "pit of success" even for people who tend > to copy-paste. > > I'm very interested in unifying

Re: [fonc] Software Crisis (was Re: Final STEP progress report abandoned?)

2013-09-09 Thread John Carlson
I'd recommend looking into quartz composer on mac os x. On Sep 9, 2013 5:11 PM, "David Barbour" wrote: > I like Paul's idea here - form a "pit of success" even for people who tend > to copy-paste. > > I'm very interested in unifying PL with HCI/UI such that actions like > copy-paste actually have

Re: [fonc] Software Crisis (was Re: Final STEP progress report abandoned?)

2013-09-09 Thread John Carlson
One thing you can do is create a bunch of named widgets that work together with copy and paste. As long as you can do type safety, and can appropriately deal with variable explosion/collapsing. You'll probably want to create very small functions, which can also be stored in widgets (lambdas). Wi

Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report abandoned?

2013-09-08 Thread John Carlson
I have a pretty good example of this. I would like to look up whether there's a difference between cigarettes and e-cigarettes for short and long term health. I know people who experience weight gain on e-cigarettes, and lose weight on regular cigarettes. On Sep 8, 2013 9:46 AM, "Alan Kay" wrote

Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report abandoned?

2013-09-05 Thread John Carlson
What is an impact map model? Is it something like a use case? On Sep 5, 2013 12:33 PM, "John Nilsson" wrote: > Even if the different domains are different it should still be possible to > generalize the basic framework and strategy used. > I imagine layers of models each constrained by the upper

Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report abandoned?

2013-09-05 Thread John Carlson
So I guess I would apply a goedel machine by looking at http request and response or sql*net request and response. Is there a goedel machine that work on 2 inputs and 2 outputs, or do you just label them, reducing the number of inputs and outputs? On Sep 5, 2013 12:22 PM, "John Carlson&qu

Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report abandoned?

2013-09-05 Thread John Carlson
On Sep 5, 2013 11:57 AM, "David Barbour" wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:41 AM, John Carlson wrote: >> >> Has anyone done research on improving programs? I know of some where you try to find bugs in programs. What about actually detecting and re

Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report abandoned?

2013-09-05 Thread John Carlson
On Sep 5, 2013 11:18 AM, "David Barbour" wrote: > But it's easy to forget that life had millions or billions of years to get where it's at, and that it has burned through materials, that it fails to recognize the awesomeness of many of the really cool 'programs' it has created (like Wolfgang Amad

Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report abandoned?

2013-09-04 Thread John Carlson
I meant to say you could perform and record operations while the program was running. I think people have missed machine language as "syntaxless." On Sep 4, 2013 4:17 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > > On Sep 3, 2013 8:25 PM, "Casey Ransberger" > wrote: &g

Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report abandoned?

2013-09-04 Thread John Carlson
On Sep 3, 2013 8:25 PM, "Casey Ransberger" wrote: > It yields a kind of "syntaxlessness" that's interesting. Our TWB/TE language was mostly syntaxless. Instead, you performed operations on desktop objects that were recorded (like AppleScript, but with an iconic language). You could even record

Re: [fonc] Fwd: Programmer Models integrating Program and IDE

2013-08-29 Thread John Carlson
;s drawing examples > (where it builds a procedure) would also be a good fit. > > My language has a name: Awelon. But thanks for offering the name of your > old project. :) > > > On Aug 29, 2013 2:11 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > >> I was suggesting MOOSE as a worki

Re: [fonc] Programmer Models integrating Program and IDE

2013-08-29 Thread John Carlson
rely on each other to manipulate the tree. Check out end-user programming and model transformation by demonstration for more recent ideas. On Aug 29, 2013 2:37 AM, "David Barbour" wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 5:57 PM, John Carlson wrote: > >> Multi-threa

Re: [fonc] Programmer Models integrating Program and IDE

2013-08-28 Thread John Carlson
How does one make a recipe maker in Minecraft? I know you can make a recipe maker with a recipe, but who decides what a recipe makes? Can you make more than one type of thing at the same time? Can a human make more than one type of thing at the same time? Or a robot? On Aug 28, 2013 5:36 PM, "

Re: [fonc] Programmer Models integrating Program and IDE

2013-08-28 Thread John Carlson
These may be your "details." On Aug 28, 2013 9:25 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > We also had the concepts of text region definition, which was persistent, > and text region, which was computed at runtime. Same with text location > definition and text location.

Re: [fonc] Programmer Models integrating Program and IDE

2013-08-28 Thread John Carlson
We also had the concepts of text region definition, which was persistent, and text region, which was computed at runtime. Same with text location definition and text location. That way, we could adapt to different inputs. On Aug 28, 2013 5:36 PM, "David Barbour" wrote: > I understand 'user mode

Re: [fonc] Programmer Models integrating Program and IDE

2013-08-28 Thread John Carlson
We used static breakpoints and relative cursors. Making the breakpoints more dynamic would be an interesting research project. We were able to make cursors in text dependent on each other. On Aug 28, 2013 8:58 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > Along with the recorder metaphor we adde

Re: [fonc] Programmer Models integrating Program and IDE

2013-08-28 Thread John Carlson
Along with the recorder metaphor we added breakpoints which worked travelling in either direction in the code. On Aug 28, 2013 8:39 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > You'd probably want to add copy and paste as well. > On Aug 28, 2013 8:29 PM, "John Carlson"

Re: [fonc] Programmer Models integrating Program and IDE

2013-08-28 Thread John Carlson
You'd probably want to add copy and paste as well. On Aug 28, 2013 8:29 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > Have you considered controlling stacks, program counters and iterators > from the same basic metaphor? We used recorder buttons. Forward, Reverse, > Stop, Fast Forward,

Re: [fonc] Programmer Models integrating Program and IDE

2013-08-28 Thread John Carlson
Have you considered controlling stacks, program counters and iterators from the same basic metaphor? We used recorder buttons. Forward, Reverse, Stop, Fast Forward, and Fast Reverse. Then undo (delete previous operation) and delete next operation. On Aug 28, 2013 5:36 PM, "David Barbour" wrote:

Re: [fonc] Programmer Models integrating Program and IDE

2013-08-28 Thread John Carlson
I think you should replace stack with collection, but perhaps that's too javaesque. On Aug 28, 2013 5:36 PM, "David Barbour" wrote: > I understand 'user modeling' [1] to broadly address long-term details > (e.g. user preferences and settings), mid-term details (goals, tasks, > workflow), and shor

Re: [fonc] Programmer Models integrating Program and IDE

2013-08-28 Thread John Carlson
Multi-threaded Object-Oriented Stack Environment ... MOOSE for short. Also check out VIPR from Wayne Citrin and friends at UC Boulder. Also check out AgentSheets, AgentCubes and XMLisp while you are at it. Not far from SimCity and friends. Also looking at videos from unreal kismet may be helpfu

Re: [fonc] 2D sexpressions for GIS, Frank/Nile

2013-08-09 Thread John Carlson
g > > > On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 12:43 AM, John Carlson wrote: > >> Has anyone considered GIS sexpressions for Frank/Nile/Open >> Croquet/Cobalt? First one would be given a map with capabilities, one >> could place sexpressions on a map on points in areas, like (de

[fonc] 2D sexpressions for GIS, Frank/Nile

2013-08-09 Thread John Carlson
Has anyone considered GIS sexpressions for Frank/Nile/Open Croquet/Cobalt? First one would be given a map with capabilities, one could place sexpressions on a map on points in areas, like (deposit (sell (bottle (ferment (harvest #grapes #harvest-location-capability)) #wente-riesling)) #bank-of-ame

Re: [fonc] The end of technology has arrived

2013-07-24 Thread John Carlson
Leap motion just came out. And Kinect before it. These open up a dimension, but probably not too different than other 3D devices. Let's what happens... On Jul 24, 2013 9:26 PM, "John Pratt" wrote: > > If you introduced the Dynabook today, would people use it? That's > now the problem. They w

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-22 Thread John Carlson
quot;: []) gets populated with results. It has the littany of > standard database query features as well, like ordering and limits and > ranges and whatnot: http://mql.freebaseapps.com > > Hope this helps! > -- Chris > > > On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 4:45 PM, John Carlson wrote: >

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-22 Thread John Carlson
d > ranges and whatnot: http://mql.freebaseapps.com > > Hope this helps! > -- Chris > > > On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 4:45 PM, John Carlson wrote: > >> Or numbers for pointers... >> On Jul 21, 2013 3:43 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: >> >>> I thi

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-21 Thread John Carlson
then you might as well go *all* the way and re-invent half of Common Lisp :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_tenth_rule Alan Moore On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:28 AM, John Carlson wrote: > Hmm. I've been thinking about creating a macro language written in JSON > that opera

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-21 Thread John Carlson
What makes this important is whether your running in stateless or stateful mode. If you only run the macro once no big deal. If you try to run on a server, you may find that you need to reset items like cursors to their original values. On Jul 21, 2013 3:43 PM, "John Carlson" wrote:

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-21 Thread John Carlson
Or numbers for pointers... On Jul 21, 2013 3:43 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > I think what would be more difficult would be identifying what is > persistent and what is runtime values. Also, JSON doesn't contain > pointers, so one would have to use strings for pointers. &

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-21 Thread John Carlson
. One issue is how to distinguish literal > strings from identifiers. > > On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:28 AM, John Carlson wrote: > >> Hmm. I've been thinking about creating a macro language written in JSON >> that operates on JSON structures. Has someone done similar

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-21 Thread John Carlson
You would have to create a JSON object which would have key (identifier), value pairs. On Jul 21, 2013 3:22 PM, "James McCartney" wrote: > > I thought about this briefly. One issue is how to distinguish literal > strings from identifiers. > > On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:2

Re: [fonc] Flat text and 1D syntax considered harmful

2013-07-21 Thread John Carlson
The structures you need when programming behavior are lists of operations, something like lisp's cond with parameters, and the ability to refer to a cond from anywhere in the program (recursion, procedure call). Everything else is icing on the cake. ___

[fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-21 Thread John Carlson
Hmm. I've been thinking about creating a macro language written in JSON that operates on JSON structures. Has someone done similar work? Should I just create a JavaScript AST in JSON? Or should I create an AST specifically for JSON manipulation? Thanks, John ___

Re: [fonc] Flat text and 1D syntax considered harmful

2013-07-20 Thread John Carlson
Don't forget to engage the right side of your brain and the corpus callosum. On Jul 20, 2013 11:22 AM, "frank" wrote: > > On 07/20/2013 04:21 PM, Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote: > >> 3) Get rid of established but unnatural ways of manipulating data. > >> Most importantly, get rid of flat text and fi

Re: [fonc] Flat text and 1D syntax considered harmful

2013-07-20 Thread John Carlson
I believe that X3D-Edit provides dual views. On Jul 20, 2013 5:26 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > Sorry if I mixed 2D and 3D ideas here. > On Jul 20, 2013 5:12 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > >> Now that I think of it, this is the old argument of immediate mode v

Re: [fonc] Flat text and 1D syntax considered harmful

2013-07-20 Thread John Carlson
Sorry if I mixed 2D and 3D ideas here. On Jul 20, 2013 5:12 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > Now that I think of it, this is the old argument of immediate mode versus > retained mode graphics. A hybrid system I believe is best. Postscript/pdf > has 3 types of graphics. Image

Re: [fonc] Flat text and 1D syntax considered harmful

2013-07-20 Thread John Carlson
ybrid modes. On Jul 20, 2013 4:20 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > Another program which has worked well in dual text/graphic mode has been > dreamweaver. Yes I understand it may not do all the behavior you want. > However it doesn't stop you from adding that behavior. > On J

Re: [fonc] Flat text and 1D syntax considered harmful

2013-07-20 Thread John Carlson
Another program which has worked well in dual text/graphic mode has been dreamweaver. Yes I understand it may not do all the behavior you want. However it doesn't stop you from adding that behavior. On Jul 20, 2013 4:13 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > One such test automatio

Re: [fonc] Flat text and 1D syntax considered harmful

2013-07-20 Thread John Carlson
One such test automation system is Sikuli, which uses images and image recognition as key components. To implement the image as 1D text seems rather foolhardy. On Jul 20, 2013 4:09 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > I think one thing that has succeeded is macro editors. You can make macr

Re: [fonc] Flat text and 1D syntax considered harmful

2013-07-20 Thread John Carlson
I think one thing that has succeeded is macro editors. You can make macro languages which work on selectors or add conditionals/recursion to such a macro editor to achieve a fairly complete programming language. You could also treat exceptions similar to conditionals. I believe the area this wor

Re: [fonc] Universal language and system programming

2013-04-22 Thread John Carlson
2013 4:33 AM, "Chris Warburton" wrote: > John Carlson writes: > > > If there truly is a universal language, is it a systems language? A > logic > > language can describe hardware. What about things like pointers? Have > > they come up with self-referen

Re: [fonc] Use case for graphical problem oriented widgets (POW, DSW)

2013-04-21 Thread John Carlson
gt; Den 21 apr 2013 07:59 skrev "John Carlson" : > >> If you want a more complex use case, create a loop 10 times around the >> collection add loop to insert a calculator into the collection. >> On Apr 21, 2013 12:48 AM, "John Carlson" wrote: >> >>&

Re: [fonc] Use case for graphical problem oriented widgets (POW, DSW)

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
If you want a more complex use case, create a loop 10 times around the collection add loop to insert a calculator into the collection. On Apr 21, 2013 12:48 AM, "John Carlson" wrote: > Here's a semipractical use case: add 1 to the display in each of a dynamic > collection

[fonc] Use case for graphical problem oriented widgets (POW, DSW)

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
do this by demonstration? How about excel? With a dynamic collection? What will work on android jelly bean? I'm away from my desktop right now. On Apr 21, 2013 12:22 AM, "John Carlson" wrote: Looking for systems like this I found app-inventor activity starter on my phone. Has any

Re: [fonc] Theory vs practice [syntax]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
Looking for systems like this I found app-inventor activity starter on my phone. Has anyone tried this? On Apr 21, 2013 12:14 AM, "John Carlson" wrote: > I believe the key to this is to create domain widgets. I am not sure if > this needs to be something like etoys, maybe a com

Re: [fonc] Theory vs practice [syntax]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
on collections of domain widgets? On Apr 21, 2013 12:02 AM, "John Carlson" wrote: > Yeah, you're right. The theory is coming up with a syntax free language. > Can you? > On Apr 21, 2013 12:00 AM, "David Barbour" wrote: > >> How is that a theory? Soun

Re: [fonc] Theory vs practice [syntax]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
Yeah, you're right. The theory is coming up with a syntax free language. Can you? On Apr 21, 2013 12:00 AM, "David Barbour" wrote: > How is that a theory? Sounds like a design principle. > > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 9:42 PM, John Carlson wrote: > >> Here&

[fonc] Universal language and system programming

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
If there truly is a universal language, is it a systems language? A logic language can describe hardware. What about things like pointers? Have they come up with self-referential logic? On Apr 20, 2013 11:18 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > I think it's better to work from examp

Re: [fonc] Theory vs practice [syntax]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
Here's my theory: reduce arguing with the compiler to minimum. This means reducing programmers' syntax errors. Only add syntax to reduce errors (the famous FORTRAN do loop error). The syntax that creates errors should be removed. On Apr 20, 2013 11:18 PM, "John Carlson" wr

[fonc] Theory vs practice

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
09 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > Practice or practical? Maybe there's space for practical theory, instead > of relying on things that don't exist. Why do we distinguish practice from > theory? Seems like a fallacy there. > On Apr 20, 2013 10:51 PM, "Da

Re: [fonc] 90% glue code [universal language]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 8:23 PM, John Carlson wrote: > >> Take my word for it, theory comes down to Monday Night Football on ESPN. >> On Apr 20, 2013 10:13 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: >> >>> I think that concepts in some sense transcend the universe. Are there

Re: [fonc] 90% glue code [universal language]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
Take my word for it, theory comes down to Monday Night Football on ESPN. On Apr 20, 2013 10:13 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > I think that concepts in some sense transcend the universe. Are there > more digits in pi than there are atoms in the universe? I guess we are >

Re: [fonc] 90% glue code [universal language]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
then how many transcendental symbols are there? I think you still run into Russell's Paradox. On Apr 20, 2013 9:15 PM, "Simon Forman" wrote: > On 4/20/13, John Carlson wrote: > > Do you need one symbol for the number infinity and another for denoting > > that a set

Re: [fonc] 90% glue code [universal language]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
ahead of me. On Apr 20, 2013 6:08 PM, "Simon Forman" wrote: > On 4/20/13, John Carlson wrote: > > How do these handle infinite sets? > > > > :D > > You have to handle infinity the same way a computer does: make up a > special symbol and let it use d

Re: [fonc] 90% glue code [universal language]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
How do these handle infinite sets? John On Apr 19, 2013 11:47 AM, "Simon Forman" wrote: > This might be of interest. Over the last century a small group of > people, working largely independently and in isolation, have > discovered and refined an Universal Language. > > This is a logic-symbolic

Re: [fonc] 90% glue code

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
John NNever mind. It was someone else and I tried to contact you at gmail. Oops On Apr 20, 2013 9:51 AM, "John Carlson" wrote: > John Nilsson: Your message about an international group crashed my mail > client and attempts to contact you privately have failed. Could you

Re: [fonc] 90% glue code

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
John Nilsson: Your message about an international group crashed my mail client and attempts to contact you privately have failed. Could you try resending the message? It has disappeared from my email. Thanks. John On Apr 20, 2013 9:32 AM, "John Nilsson" wrote: > One approach I've been thinki

[fonc] Quick off topic question

2013-04-18 Thread John Carlson
Does anyone have a fast API for getting/putting "the nth line of a file"? This would replace a relational way of storing strings, caching is acceptable. C++ is preferred. ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc

Re: [fonc] holy grail of FONC?

2013-04-13 Thread John Carlson
> One initiative which is interesting is Worlds which could function as a kind of "exploratory programmer's undo." This has been covered in various papers on the VPRI writings page, and touched upon IIRC in some of the NSF updates. It's actually IMHO one of the unsung heroes of what these people ha

[fonc] holy grail of FONC?

2013-04-13 Thread John Carlson
Is the holy grail of FONC to create an environment where you can use command line, text editor, IDE, and end-user programming to program the same program? Are there any other ways to program? Circuit boards? I believe FONC includes this. Speech and gestures? Does FONC provide a way to use s

Re: [fonc] CodeSpells. Learn how to program Java by writing spells for a 3D environment.

2013-04-12 Thread John Carlson
No, that was Ralph Griswold...are they related? On Apr 12, 2013 10:38 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > Btw, is this the same Griswold of Snobol and Icon (programming languages) > fame? > On Apr 12, 2013 3:20 PM, "shaun gilchrist" wrote: > >> One of the "fu

Re: [fonc] CodeSpells. Learn how to program Java by writing spells for a 3D environment.

2013-04-12 Thread John Carlson
Btw, is this the same Griswold of Snobol and Icon (programming languages) fame? On Apr 12, 2013 3:20 PM, "shaun gilchrist" wrote: > One of the "fundamentals" we are all still grasping at is how to teach > programming. These are links to people attempting to contribute something > meaningful in th

[fonc] CodeSpells. Learn how to program Java by writing spells for a 3D environment.

2013-04-12 Thread John Carlson
http://www.jacobsschool.ucsd.edu/news/news_releases/release.sfe?id=1347 ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-12 Thread John Carlson
Base 13 folks. On Apr 12, 2013 3:41 AM, "GrrrWaaa" wrote: > It doesn't reply forty-two? > > http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081019212355AAHkApl > > On Apr 9, 2013, at 5:48 PM, Casey Ransberger wrote: > > > It's tragic that Siri can't tell me what you get when you multiply six > by n

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread John Carlson
I thought the desktop metaphor was programming. On Apr 9, 2013 12:08 PM, "David Barbour" wrote: > On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Chris Warburton > wrote: > >> >> There is a distinction between "programming a mobile phone" and >> "programming when mobile". >> > > True enough! And there's also a

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread John Carlson
Sometimes I think that something like http://leapmotion.com will use something like Ameslan to "revolutionize" programming. Maybe programming will become less sedentary and more like dance dance revolution. ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri

Re: [fonc] Layering, Thinking and Computing

2013-04-09 Thread John Carlson
I guess actor recognition would be composite message recognition. On Apr 9, 2013 10:42 AM, "John Carlson" wrote: > So it's message recognition and not actor recognition? Can actors > collaborate to recognize a message? I'm trying to put this in terms of > subjectiv

Re: [fonc] Layering, Thinking and Computing

2013-04-09 Thread John Carlson
So it's message recognition and not actor recognition? Can actors collaborate to recognize a message? I'm trying to put this in terms of subjective/objective. In a subjective world there are only messages (waves). In an objective world there are computers and routers and networks (actors, locat

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins (Lt and other DSLs)

2013-04-07 Thread John Carlson
It would seem like NLP should be based on phonemes, not written language. One cannot say what the name of God is, because written Hebrew lacks vowels. We should go with phonemes, I believe. On Apr 7, 2013 9:36 PM, "John Carlson" wrote: > I looked at Lt. Reminds me of John Orwant

  1   2   >