Quoting Vadim Gritsenko [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Ted Husted wrote:
Perhaps once most of the Committers are on the PMC list, we can move the
administrative nonsense there again, and let the General list be the General
list again :)
Looking forward to it. Do not remember when good flame
Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
The last really good (by some people's definition, I guess) flame war happened
a couple of years ago ... and caused the subscription count on this list to
drop from 4000 to 1500 in less than a month.
I wonder what that was? :-)
It is currently 718.
Hope it will
Ted Husted wrote:
Perhaps once most of the Committers are on the PMC list, we can move the administrative nonsense there again, and let the General list be the General list again :)
Looking forward to it. Do not remember when good flame worth reading
last happened on this list.
Vadim
they probably most definitively disagree with
everything espoused in the above email.
From: Thiago Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 04:53:52 -0300
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Differences
Hi ppl,
What's the main
Thanks!
- Original Message -
From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Differences
Approach.
Use struts if you're using JSP
Use Tapestry if you want to attach logic with div
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:00:31 -0500, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
I understand why you came here to ask this, but its not really a
good place to ask (its more of an administrative list). You'd be
better going and asking each of the projects (who will probably
send you links to their website).
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:00:31 -0500, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Yes struts can use things that aren't JSP but is not OPTIMAL for
that.
Thanks to the Velocity Tools,
http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/tools/index.html
many people, including myself, find Struts and Velocity to be an optimal
On Jan 14, 2004, at 7:08 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 09:00:31 -0500, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
I understand why you came here to ask this, but its not really a
good place to ask (its more of an administrative list). You'd be
better going and asking each of the projects (who will
Perhaps once most of the Committers are on the PMC list, we can move
the administrative nonsense there again, and let the General list be
the General list again :)
As a side note, Roy just insisted that a vote to release a product from the
Incubator be moved from the PMC list to the general@
Hi ppl,
What's the main difference between Struts, Tapestry and Turbine?
Thanks in advance!
Thiago Souza
On 8 Oct 2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
| This is a sucky thing about java. You get a JVM always whether you want
| one or not.. to do it in java he needs a mod_java with GCJ. (That
| actually sounds kinda cool)
An old message, but hey..
Have you checked out JSR 121 - Application Isolation API
It'd be a piece of cake to add a velocity tag to Jelly
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 11/10/2002 05:22:30 AM:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nail
looks like a thumb. Or something like that.
===
tom
-Original Message-
From: Steve Downey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 8:52 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???
On Wednesday 09 October 2002
person, every nail
looks like a thumb. Or something like that.
===
tom
-Original Message-
From: Steve Downey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 8:52 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???
On Wednesday 09
that.
===
tom
-Original Message-
From: Steve Downey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 8:52 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???
On Wednesday 09 October 2002 07:18 pm, Pier Fumagalli
Daniel Rall wrote:
Berin Loritsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Pier Fumagalli wrote:
On 8/10/02 1:30 am, Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 2002/10/7 5:21 PM, Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
JSPs are the root of all evil because HTMLers think to have the power (and
Nick Chalko wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Rich Persaud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 8:26 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: re[2]: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???
Preferred pain is a known pain with an experience-based cap.
New
On Tue, Oct 08, 2002 at 03:03:37PM -0700, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
Interestingly enough, I did write a quick little framework that works very
similar to Turbine and has the same concept of users/roles/permissions. =)
Well, if you want an MVC framework, someone did a port
of Maverick to PHP:
Berin wrote:
| Even when Quick and Dirty takes longer. I tried to convince my boss
that
| a certain customization required so many fundamental changes that it
would
| be quicker and easier to develop/maintain if we did it right. He told
me
| that he would never be able to convince the
- Original Message -
From: Rich Persaud [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: re[2]: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???
New and improved pain may promise an average POI (Pain-on-Investment) that
is 50
I knew that was coming.
-dysfunctional Andy
On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 03:36, Bill Barker wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Rich Persaud [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: re[2]: Differences between Structs
-Original Message-
From: Rich Persaud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 8:26 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: re[2]: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???
Preferred pain is a known pain with an experience-based cap.
New and improved pain may
on 2002/10/9 10:40 AM, Daniel Rall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
mod_python is looking more and more attractive to me all the time, a
clever balance between the two.
Not really. This is about as good as plain servlets.
http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-2.7.8/doc-html/tut-pub.html
Notice
On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 14:05, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
on 2002/10/9 10:40 AM, Daniel Rall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
mod_python is looking more and more attractive to me all the time, a
clever balance between the two.
Not really. This is about as good as plain servlets.
On 9/10/02 3:47, Berin Loritsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Even when Quick and Dirty takes longer. I tried to convince my boss that
a certain customization required so many fundamental changes that it would
be quicker and easier to develop/maintain if we did it right. He told me
that he
On 8/10/02 23:59, Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Java is not the fastest technology to develop in, however, it produces the
best code for the long term.
PHP is the fastest technology to develop in, however, it produces the
crappiest code for the long term.
The problem is when
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 10/10/2002 03:40:35 AM:
Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Java is not the fastest technology to develop in, however, it produces
the
best code for the long term.
PHP is the fastest technology to develop in, however, it produces the
crappiest
On Wednesday 09 October 2002 07:18 pm, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
On 9/10/02 3:47, Berin Loritsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Even when Quick and Dirty takes longer. I tried to convince my boss that
a certain customization required so many fundamental changes that it
would be quicker and easier
On 8/10/02 1:30 am, Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 2002/10/7 5:21 PM, Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
JSPs are the root of all evil because HTMLers think to have the power (and
obligation, after a while) to blatantly destroy your entire container in
less than 2
On 8/10/02 3:09 am, Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What does c stand for? Oh wait...explain that to your designers. Also, I
believe you forgot a bunch of other junk that you have to put at the top of
the file or in configuration files to configure what c means anyway.
It is
-Original Message-
From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 7:10 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???
snip/
The above could just as easily be written as:
html
headtitleHello/title/head
PHP 5 and MySQL 4 will make java, .Net, and all similar technologies
obsolete.
Said one manager to another manager on a golf court, after having
spent the weekend with his 12 year old son who built the school
website.
It took me a week ton convince the another manager that it might
not be a
Pier Fumagalli wrote:
I believe that Andy doesn't quite know what templates are ! :-) Dude,
we're not talking about the beauty of XML around here, but stuff that
Macromedia DreamWeaver can parse and (somehow) render! :-)
In my shop we've gone our own way, with our own templating sytem
(fun tread: tea, tapestry, no one said the other one
http://www.salmonllc.com/website/Jsp/vanity/Jade.jsp )
This presentation/vie layer stuff is a popular topic.
Rumor is that JSR 127 (JS Faces) could allow for emitting of
http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms/ and do all rendering on browser via
I both agree and disagree with you. The trouble is that XSLT syntax is
horrific and some of the specs (for a specific example the XInclude
spec) are bent on violating SoC more than embedding if statements ever
could (having to declare a base url is a greater evil).
There is a production concern
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So putting out crap code that you have to toggle and mess with over and
over again is where the money is at in web app development. So what is
the solution? There isn't one...web app development is still a big
hairy mess. Choice is good. ;-)
Well
Its too bad that the clans don't play nice together... I'm convinced
together... They could come up with something MUCH MUCH better than this
mess. (provided some GUI wonks could be found) ;-)
(and there is my theme) ;-)
-Andy
On Tue, 2002-10-08 at 10:42, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
Andrew C.
On 10/7/02 9:56 PM, Martin Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
on 2002/10/7 5:41 PM, Martin Cooper
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of course, I know Velocity fans won't like this any better,
but if you bring
the JSP example on that page up to
On 10/8/02 12:13 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/7/02 9:56 PM, Martin Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
on 2002/10/7 5:41 PM, Martin Cooper
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of course, I know Velocity fans won't like this
Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
I was trying to stay out, but this *always* comes up in these discussions,
and I think it's somewhat disingenuous. First, you have a similar thing in
JSTL, and one added and desginers who work with JavaScript on the client
side get method calls.
It's not differnet than
on 2002/10/8 1:14 AM, Martin Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I find it even more amusing to see you try to defend
I never defend. I only offend by exposing the truth. =)
-jon
--
StudioZ.tv /\ Bar/Nightclub/Entertainment
314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco
http://studioz.tv/
on 2002/10/8 2:42 AM, Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
PHP 5 and MySQL 4 will make java, .Net, and all similar technologies
obsolete.
Said one manager to another manager on a golf court, after having
spent the weekend with his 12 year old son who built the school
website.
It took me
on 2002/10/8 8:41 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That's why Velocity is as fast as JSP.
geir
...if not faster...
-jon
--
StudioZ.tv /\ Bar/Nightclub/Entertainment
314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco
http://studioz.tv/
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail:
I recently spent a couple weekend nights and built the
StudioZ.tv website in PHP4 on OSX.
Hey, that looks like maven! :P
It is a pretty cool webapp
that has really transformed things for us and made my life
MUCH easier (the office staff can fully manage the events
that show up on the
On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 00:14, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Possibly Avalon does this (to some degree) but it
only covers a subset of what you need and furthermore it goes out of its
way to define far to many is a relationships just to avoid having
default implementations (public void init() {/*empty
on 2002/10/8 2:32 PM, Leo Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I recently spent a couple weekend nights and built the
StudioZ.tv website in PHP4 on OSX.
Hey, that looks like maven! :P
Actually, it looks like CollabNet's SourceCast. Scarab looks like SourceCast
and Maven looks like Scarab. =)
Bingo!
At 10:55 AM 10/8/2002 -0400, you wrote:
Its too bad that the clans don't play nice together... I'm convinced
together... They could come up with something MUCH MUCH better than this
mess. (provided some GUI wonks could be found) ;-)
(and there is my theme) ;-)
-Andy
On Tue,
At 12:07 08.10.2002 -0700, Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
I recently spent a couple weekend nights and built the StudioZ.tv website in
PHP4 on OSX. It is a pretty cool webapp that has really transformed things
for us and made my life MUCH easier (the office staff can fully manage the
events that show
I disagree with such Java Jingoism. Jon's reasoning sounded pretty good
to me. . Launching several JVMs sucks. And doing all in one is a recipe
for disaster... (crash bang boom)
This is a sucky thing about java. You get a JVM always whether you want
one or not.. to do it in java he needs a
Pier Fumagalli wrote:
On 8/10/02 1:30 am, Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 2002/10/7 5:21 PM, Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
JSPs are the root of all evil because HTMLers think to have the power (and
obligation, after a while) to blatantly destroy your entire
on 2002/10/8 3:39 PM, Ceki Gülcü [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is surprising that a Java expert with monumental contributions to
this community would not use Java technology to create his website. Is
this a case of do as I say, not as I do?
Of course one is free to try new approaches but the
the
differences between Struts and Turbine project. I'm currently using Turbine
framework to build a web application and I see that Struts could offer me
the same kind of solution, am I right ? I would also like to know which
project in moving faster and has more chance the stay alive
, 2002-10-05 at 11:08, Dominic Gagne wrote:
I hope I'm asking the right mailing list ... I'd like to know the
differences between Struts and Turbine project. I'm currently using Turbine
framework to build a web application and I see that Struts could offer me
the same kind of solution, am
On 7/10/02 22:01, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
While I think there are places that struts could learn a lot from
turbine... Struts has a bit more design cohesion shall we say? Where
turbine is a bit moreorganic in places.
The nice thing about Turbine is that it does
Looks like kind of a mickey mouse version of JSP to me... ;-) (I just
couldn't resist...I just couldn't!)
On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 18:08, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
On 7/10/02 22:01, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
While I think there are places that struts could learn a lot from
Right...my problem with JSP isn't its dogged speed its the conceptual
nastiness of it.
%
if (you.have(this).in.your(html)) {
out.println(Andy doesn't think its good);
}
%
-Andy
On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 19:45, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
On 8/10/02 0:18, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL
And to resurface the old issue, this is so much worse than
#if (..)
#end
in Velocity...?
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 08/10/2002 09:50:15 AM:
Nope. That sucks too. Not that my opinion should matter.
On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 20:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And to resurface the old issue, this is so much worse than
#if (..)
#end
in Velocity...?
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Work: http://www.multitask.com.au
On 8/10/02 1:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And to resurface the old issue, this is so much worse than
#if (..)
#end
in Velocity...?
I believe that Andy doesn't quite know what templates are ! :-) Dude,
we're not talking about the beauty of XML around here, but stuff
Actually, yes.
Here is the specific reason(s):
http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/ymtd/ymtd-saying-hello.html
Most specifically, if you want to make the word doesn't in the example
below bold...now, you have embedded HTML into your println...and we know it
isn't MVC to embed HTML into Java
On 8/10/02 1:12, Scott Eade [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But the Velocity is much easier to teach to a web designer (non-programmer)
than the JSP.
http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/ymtd/ymtd.html
More than easier to teach, is that it _forbids_ them to do what they're not
supposed to do...
on 2002/10/7 5:21 PM, Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
JSPs are the root of all evil because HTMLers think to have the power (and
obligation, after a while) to blatantly destroy your entire container in
less than 2 minutes of uptime... To that respect, even ASP are better...
Pier
-Original Message-
From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 5:28 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???
Actually, yes.
Here is the specific reason(s):
http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity
Scott Eade [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 08/10/2002 10:12:33 AM:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
#if (..)
#end
in Velocity...?
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 08/10/2002 09:50:15
AM:
%
if (you.have(this).in.your(html)) {
out.println(Andy doesn't think its good);
on 2002/10/7 5:41 PM, Martin Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of course, I know Velocity fans won't like this any better, but if you bring
the JSP example on that page up to date, using JSTL, you'll have this:
c:choose
c:when test=${empty param.name}
Hello World
/c:when
c:otherwise
-Original Message-
From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 6:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Differences between Structs and Turbine ???
on 2002/10/7 5:41 PM, Martin Cooper
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of course, I know
on 2002/10/7 6:56 PM, Martin Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You mean this, taken from the page, don't you?
html
headtitleHello/title/head
body
h1
#if ($request.getParameter(name) == null)
Hello World
#else
Hello, $request.getParameter(name)
#end
/h1
/body/html
At least if
I think we can all agree that there are varying issues here. For some
environments, especially those that allow htmlers (which we all are) to
dink with backend code, jsp probably is not the best solution. For other
environments, it is a boon.
At 01:21 AM 10/8/2002 +0100, you wrote:
On
I hope I'm asking the right mailing list ... I'd like to know the
differences between Struts and Turbine project. I'm currently using Turbine
framework to build a web application and I see that Struts could offer me
the same kind of solution, am I right ? I would also like to know which
project
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