Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Carol Spears]

On Sun, Jun 19, 2005 at 07:36:21PM -0700, Carol Spears wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2005 at 08:56:07AM +0800, Leon Brooks wrote:
> > On Monday 20 June 2005 02:04, Carol Spears wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jun 19, 2005 at 05:11:08PM +0200, Karine Delvare wrote:
> > >> "Alastair M. Robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>> I can only speak for myself, of course, but personally, I end up
> > >>> unfolding the directory view perhaps 90-95% of the times I used
> > >>> the dialog.  The only time I generally don't need to expand the
> > >>> directory view is if I'm just saving off an existing image in a
> > >>> different file format.
> > 
> > >> I have the opposite experience : I tend to group images of a
> > >> drawing session / photo manipulations session in one directory, so
> > >> when I save my first image I unfold the directory view to pick a
> > >> bookmark and create a subdirectory in it, but from then every new
> > >> save will only need the folded dialog, which is small and
> > >> uncluttered, to my liking.
> > 
> > > is it within your ability to understand that there are still several
> > > people who have been using gimp since the 1.0 development era and
> > > expect configurability?
> > 
> > I don't think Karine was speaking against configurability as such, just 
> > in favour of the default.
> > 
> > Would a simple "push-pin" toggle control to optionally stick the default 
> > configuration one way or the other be difficult to implement?
> > 
> that is the issue.  a good thing for beginners has been foisted on
> everyone.
> 
> "just blindly type into the selector" is terrible advice for how to use
> something.  especially software.
> 
i am replying to myself -- not a good situation.

i also realize that i am combining two different thoughts from this
original thread and not combining it well.

karine is a new user and therefore likes the default.  this is all fine
and good, however, i still need to open that expander almost every
single time i work and expected that the behavior of the expander be
configurable long before now.  

then you got the other thread running about the file selector.  the fact
that i confuse the two is probably related to the way the developers
answer the complaints.  the answers are rude, suspiciously lacking in
logic and fall way below the expectations anyone would have if you have
been following gimp development for more than the last three years.

my opinions do not matter, but "blindly type into it"???

carol

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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Carol Spears]

On Mon, Jun 20, 2005 at 08:56:07AM +0800, Leon Brooks wrote:
> On Monday 20 June 2005 02:04, Carol Spears wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 19, 2005 at 05:11:08PM +0200, Karine Delvare wrote:
> >> "Alastair M. Robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> I can only speak for myself, of course, but personally, I end up
> >>> unfolding the directory view perhaps 90-95% of the times I used
> >>> the dialog.  The only time I generally don't need to expand the
> >>> directory view is if I'm just saving off an existing image in a
> >>> different file format.
> 
> >> I have the opposite experience : I tend to group images of a
> >> drawing session / photo manipulations session in one directory, so
> >> when I save my first image I unfold the directory view to pick a
> >> bookmark and create a subdirectory in it, but from then every new
> >> save will only need the folded dialog, which is small and
> >> uncluttered, to my liking.
> 
> > is it within your ability to understand that there are still several
> > people who have been using gimp since the 1.0 development era and
> > expect configurability?
> 
> I don't think Karine was speaking against configurability as such, just 
> in favour of the default.
> 
> Would a simple "push-pin" toggle control to optionally stick the default 
> configuration one way or the other be difficult to implement?
> 
that is the issue.  a good thing for beginners has been foisted on
everyone.

"just blindly type into the selector" is terrible advice for how to use
something.  especially software.

carol

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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Leon Brooks]

On Monday 20 June 2005 02:04, Carol Spears wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2005 at 05:11:08PM +0200, Karine Delvare wrote:
>> "Alastair M. Robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> I can only speak for myself, of course, but personally, I end up
>>> unfolding the directory view perhaps 90-95% of the times I used
>>> the dialog.  The only time I generally don't need to expand the
>>> directory view is if I'm just saving off an existing image in a
>>> different file format.

>> I have the opposite experience : I tend to group images of a
>> drawing session / photo manipulations session in one directory, so
>> when I save my first image I unfold the directory view to pick a
>> bookmark and create a subdirectory in it, but from then every new
>> save will only need the folded dialog, which is small and
>> uncluttered, to my liking.

> is it within your ability to understand that there are still several
> people who have been using gimp since the 1.0 development era and
> expect configurability?

I don't think Karine was speaking against configurability as such, just 
in favour of the default.

Would a simple "push-pin" toggle control to optionally stick the default 
configuration one way or the other be difficult to implement?

Cheers; Leon

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[Gimp-developer] Re: FileSave dialog (was: many other things)

[Leon Brooks]

On Monday 20 June 2005 07:02, Robert L Krawitz wrote:
> I don't much mind blindly entering paths, as long as I can see
> what I'm typing in case I make a mistake.

Um.

English sucks. My brain twitched a fair bit trying to parse that, so I'm 
going to re-word it as:

I don't mind typing when there is no indication of any place
to type, but as soon as I start typing I would like some
feedback in case I make a mistake.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers; Leon

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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[jernej]

On Sunday, June 19, 2005, 21:17:14, Bill Kendrick wrote:

> [*] I've tried the Microsoft "PowerToy" for virtual desktops.  It's utterly
> useless.  Doubly-so since it (1) rearranges the window listing in the
> taskbar, and (2) Visual Studio is a piece of crap, and does stuff like
> unminimize when you switch between virtual desktops.

Try VirtuaWin from . Not sure how it works with
Visual Studio, but I like it much more than MS's virtual desktop tool.

-- 
< Jernej Simoncic ><><><><>< http://deepthought.ena.si/ >

It's morally wrong to allow suckers to keep their money.
   -- Canada Bill Jones's Motto

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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ (-: sooner or later :-) KDEification of GIMP]

[Robert L Krawitz]

   From: Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
   Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 00:40:37 +0200

   > If you want details then "exactly as in gtk+-1.0" should suffice,
   > because that dialog simply worked. No extra window, no slow extra
   > popups that you have to wait for, no fancy and distracting
   > _hiliting_, no stealing of the current selection
   > etc. etc. Basically I want to be able to blindly enter paths as I
   > could with gimp-1.0, press enter and presto - saved or loaded,
   > with no other die effects.

   Perhaps you should stop looking at the dialog and just blindly
   enter paths. It works surprisingly well.

Did this change in GTK 2.6?  In GTK 2.4, I tried doing precisely
that.  I typed ctrl-O while in an image named "colors4.tif"; I tried
to type "skier.tif" and got another copy of colors4.tif.  I
don't much mind blindly entering paths, as long as I can see what I'm
typing in case I make a mistake.

-- 
Robert Krawitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Tall Clubs International  --  http://www.tall.org/ or 1-888-IM-TALL-2
Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Project lead for Gimp Print   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton
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Re: [gwidion@mpc.com.br: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ (-: sooner or later :-) KDEification of GIMP]

[Sven Neumann]

Hi,

Marc Lehmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> For some reaosn I cna hardly believe that after reading your original
> posting. You simply show no sign of understanding for the preferences
> other people have, as if one-size-fits-all would be the perfect solution.

Huh? I've been collecting the wishes and problems regarding the file
selector, making sure that the GTK+ developers are aware of the
problem and even patching the file selector myself. We have also done
quite some changes to the gimp file dialogs since the switch to the
new GtkFileChooser widget. If you want to suggest that I would be
ignoring the complaints, I really don't know what you've been smoking.

> If you want details then "exactly as in gtk+-1.0" should suffice,
> because that dialog simply worked. No extra window, no slow extra
> popups that you have to wait for, no fancy and distracting
> _hiliting_, no stealing of the current selection etc. etc. Basically
> I want to be able to blindly enter paths as I could with gimp-1.0,
> press enter and presto - saved or loaded, with no other die effects.

Perhaps you should stop looking at the dialog and just blindly enter
paths. It works surprisingly well.

> What I simply find annoying is this "there is no problem"
> attitude. I would find a "there are problems, but we will not go
> back to that for the very few users who liked it" attitude much much
> better.

There's no such atttitude. The new file chooser has bugs and they need
to be fixed. Asking us to revert to the old widget is however not an
option.


Sven
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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Sven Neumann]

Hi,

Bill Kendrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> Also, you might want to explain bookmarks to your wife. She might find
>> the dialog a lot more usable then.
>
> The bookmarks are okay, until you end up having 5 different folders called
> "bitmaps", and it's impossible to tell which project folder it's from.
> (I use fairly standardized folder heirarchies and makefiles at work,
> so every game has a "bitmaps" folder.)
>
> Bookmarking more than one folder with a particular name causes
> confusion, since you can't tell which is which.  Perhaps I should post a
> wishlist item to Gimp's bug tracker. :^)  When there are multiple bookmarks
> pointing to folders with the same name, show more context.  e.g.:

There's already a bug-report on that in the GTK+ bug-tracker.


Sven
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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ (-: sooner or later :-) KDEification of GIMP]

[pcg]

On Sun, Jun 19, 2005 at 11:53:32AM +0200, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > You should really accept that, even if it works for you, and even if you
> > cannot understand it.
> 
> I do accept that

For some reaosn I cna hardly believe that after reading your original
posting. You simply show no sign of understanding for the preferences
other people have, as if one-size-fits-all would be the perfect solution.

> but I would like people to point out exactly what
> problems they have instead of just saying that they dislike the new
> dialogs.

... but people do that. And you tell them this is the gimp and not the
right place to do that. This is contradictory.

> Without detailed complaints we can't do anything to improve
> the situation.

Well, let's make an example (this has been said before):

"I would like to have the file open and save dialogs work the same as the
ones in gtk+-1.0, with typing paths into the dialog and tab completion".

If you want details then "exactly as in gtk+-1.0" should suffice, because
that dialog simply worked. No extra window, no slow extra popups that you
have to wait for, no fancy and distracting _hiliting_, no stealing of the
current selection etc. etc. Basically I want to be able to blindly enter
paths as I could with gimp-1.0, press enter and presto - saved or loaded,
with no other die effects.

Now, lots of people want other things, for example bookmarks etc. I don't,
and some others don't either. There is great diversity. I am not even able
to find out wether the file dialog I would like to have is even remotely
compatible with the file dialogs other people want to have. I can only say
that nice features I found both cool and supportive have been removed, and
not been put back in, with the new file dialogs.

I am not telling you to go and "fix" it (it ain't even broken!). Other
features have been removed or made more difficult or different to use as
well and it seems the majority of users found this an improvement. I can
live with that.

What I simply find annoying is this "there is no problem" attitude. I
would find a "there are problems, but we will not go back to that for the
very few users who liked it" attitude much much better.

-- 
The choice of a
  -==- _GNU_
  ==-- _   generation Marc Lehmann
  ---==---(_)__  __   __  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  --==---/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ /  http://schmorp.de/
  -=/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\  XX11-RIPE
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[Gimp-developer] Re: [poppler] Prototype PDF import GIMP plug-in based on poppler

[Nathan Summers]

On 6/19/05, Leonard Rosenthol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 06:23 AM 6/19/2005, Nathan Summers wrote:
> >I've created an initial version of a PDF import plugin for GIMP that
> >uses poppler.
> 
>  Cool!
> 
> 
> >  Currently this version has little to offer compared to
> >the existing ghostscript-based PDF import plugin,
> 
>  Should be noticeably faster (and depending on the version of GS
> installed), higher quality.

I was refering mostly to the fact that there are several features that
the GS version has that the poppler version, being a prototype, does
not.  For instance, the version I put on the web has the resolution
hard-coded at 72 dpi, which isn't very reasonable.

> >While this version uses poppler to render whole pages, it would be
> >nice if it were possible to access individual elements, such as boxes
> >of text or images, and have each rendered into a separate GIMP layer.
> 
>  Interesting, but what purpose would it serve?   If GIMP had "real"
> text layers (ala PSD), then it might be interesting to create such from PDF
> - but otherwise, I don't see any use.

I'm not sure what you mean by "real" text layers. GIMP certainly can't
do text layout as well as a typesetting program yet, but you certainly
could click on a text layer, edit what the text says, and have the
gimp engine re-render the text.

>  What did you have in mind?

It would be nice for different parts to be rendered into separate
layers so they can be manipulated individually. GIMP already has some
vector graphics features, and it is growing more constantly.  Being
able to inport paths actually as paths, etc, would be a very useful
thing to have.  Furthermore, if you only need a specific part of a
large file, the ability to just import a few elements instead of the
whole thing makes the workflow much easier.

Rockwalrus
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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ (-: sooner or later :-) KDEification of GIMP]

[Simon Budig]

Sven Neumann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
[Fileselector]
> I do accept that but I would like people to point out exactly what
> problems they have instead of just saying that they dislike the new
> dialogs. Without detailed complaints we can't do anything to improve
> the situation.

What occurred to me recently: The absence of a discoverable filename
entry makes it quite hard to paste a filename into the fileselector.

(plus the extra popping up window is quite annoying)

Bye,
Simon

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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Bill Kendrick]

On Sun, Jun 19, 2005 at 12:21:09PM +0100, Alastair M. Robinson wrote:
> Yes, for me the Save dialog is an annoyance.  I very rarely want to save 
> directly into the default directory, and changing directories takes too 
> much mousework, and is clumsy with the keyboard (tabbing to get the 
> focus in the right place, then Ctrl-L, then enter path...)  Is there any 
> reason why the save dialog's filename entry box can't support paths 
> directly?

Oh man, yeah, what the HELL is up with that?  Why doesn't Gimp remember
the last-saved folder!? :^( :^(

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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Bill Kendrick]

On Sun, Jun 19, 2005 at 12:02:23PM +0200, Sven Neumann wrote:
> 
> Why is she using the file open dialog at all? She could as well use
> the file manager and drag the files into GIMP.

That's annoying.  At work, on WinXP, I have a number of 'necessary' windows
open at all time, to do cellphone game development:

  My project folder
  The Visual Studio window
  A build directory
  A target directory for dragging-and-dropping builds
  WinCVS
  Email client

That's already cluttered enough, and WinXP's lack of usable virtual desktops[*]
makes it even more annoying to try to open more windows.  Especially since
I can't tell Gimp "Stay above other windows."  And even if I could, it would
be irritating if a window full of files just HAPPENED to appear 'under' the
Gimp window.

So yeah, I almost ALWAYS use "File->Open", and almost never use drag-n-drop.

[*] I've tried the Microsoft "PowerToy" for virtual desktops.  It's utterly
useless.  Doubly-so since it (1) rearranges the window listing in the
taskbar, and (2) Visual Studio is a piece of crap, and does stuff like
unminimize when you switch between virtual desktops.


> The file open dialog should really only be used if the file isn't
> readily selected elsewhere which should be rather unlikely if you
> are working in a document oriented way.

99% of the time, even if I'm just manipulating digital photos, I open all of
the files at once.  I find it easier to with an "Open" dialog than it is
with either Windows' file explorer or the Konqueror file manager.

I mean, maybe it's because I'm stuck at 1024x768, but I just don't have
lots of room for dragging and dropping files from file manager windows.
*shrug*



> Also, you might want to explain bookmarks to your wife. She might find
> the dialog a lot more usable then.

The bookmarks are okay, until you end up having 5 different folders called
"bitmaps", and it's impossible to tell which project folder it's from.
(I use fairly standardized folder heirarchies and makefiles at work,
so every game has a "bitmaps" folder.)

Bookmarking more than one folder with a particular name causes
confusion, since you can't tell which is which.  Perhaps I should post a
wishlist item to Gimp's bug tracker. :^)  When there are multiple bookmarks
pointing to folders with the same name, show more context.  e.g.:

  supergame\bitmaps
  testapp\bitmaps


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Re: [gwidion@mpc.com.br: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Carol Spears]

On Sun, Jun 19, 2005 at 05:11:08PM +0200, Karine Delvare wrote:
> "Alastair M. Robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I can only speak for myself, of course, but personally, I end up 
> > unfolding the directory view perhaps 90-95% of the times I used the 
> > dialog.  The only time I generally don't need to expand the directory 
> > view is if I'm just saving off an existing image in a different file format.
> 
> I have the opposite experience : I tend to group images of a drawing
> session / photo manipulations session in one directory, so when I save
> my first image I unfold the directory view to pick a bookmark and
> create a subdirectory in it, but from then every new save will only
> need the folded dialog, which is small and uncluttered, to my liking.
> 
is it within your ability to understand that there are still several
people who have been using gimp since the 1.0 development era and expect
configurability?

perhaps even deserve it?

carol

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Re: [gwidion@mpc.com.br: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Karine Delvare]

"Alastair M. Robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I can only speak for myself, of course, but personally, I end up 
> unfolding the directory view perhaps 90-95% of the times I used the 
> dialog.  The only time I generally don't need to expand the directory 
> view is if I'm just saving off an existing image in a different file format.

I have the opposite experience : I tend to group images of a drawing
session / photo manipulations session in one directory, so when I save
my first image I unfold the directory view to pick a bookmark and
create a subdirectory in it, but from then every new save will only
need the folded dialog, which is small and uncluttered, to my liking.

-- 
Karine Delvare
http://edhel.nerim.net/
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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Alastair M. Robinson]

Hi Sven,

Sven Neumann wrote:


In the long run, file dialogs and file locations in general should
become something that the normal user would never have to use.


Realistically, that's a good few months / years away.  In the meantime, 
we're pretty much stuck with using the Save dialog in one form or another.



The point of the expander is to hide the UI elements that you are
unlikely going to use. Now if the dialog would remember this state and
since I don't expect users to ever collapse the expander again, that
would basically make the expander be open all the time, thus rendering
it pointless.


Yes, I see your point.

I can only speak for myself, of course, but personally, I end up 
unfolding the directory view perhaps 90-95% of the times I used the 
dialog.  The only time I generally don't need to expand the directory 
view is if I'm just saving off an existing image in a different file format.


Anyway, just my two-penneth :)

All the best,
--
Alastair M. Robinson
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Re: [gwidion@mpc.com.br: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Leon Brooks]

On Sunday 19 June 2005 20:17, Sven Neumann wrote:
> The point of the expander is to hide the UI elements that you are
> unlikely going to use. Now if the dialog would remember this state
> and since I don't expect users to ever collapse the expander again,
> that would basically make the expander be open all the time, thus
> rendering it pointless.

The obvious solution is to add a small "sticky" pin which one can click 
to nail the thing open (or closed, if the app starts it open) when it 
gets irritating.

But then, IIRC, this goes against a GNOME policy of having all such 
things in a config program somewhere.

Cheers; Leon

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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Sven Neumann]

Hi,

"Alastair M. Robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Yep, I do that too.  But surely we should be trying to maximise the
> usability of the dialogs rather than merely suggesting that people
> don't use them?

In the long run, file dialogs and file locations in general should
become something that the normal user would never have to use.

>> I already said that it could be done but that I am not convinced
>> that it is a change to the better.
>
> I'm not suggesting that it should always be open - just that it
> should remember its last status.

The point of the expander is to hide the UI elements that you are
unlikely going to use. Now if the dialog would remember this state and
since I don't expect users to ever collapse the expander again, that
would basically make the expander be open all the time, thus rendering
it pointless.


Sven
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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Leon Brooks]

On Sunday 19 June 2005 19:48, Alastair M. Robinson wrote:
> I'm a few versions behind on my Linux machine because I don't
> currently have time to update GTK, FreeType and everything else 

Live dangerously, point your package manager at Debian Testing or 
Mandrake Cooker and update overnight every night. (-:

Cheers; Leon

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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Leon Brooks]

On Sunday 19 June 2005 19:38, Leon Brooks wrote:
> Now that I know it works, she's dragging a link from Konqueror and
> dropping it on GIMP to open files.

Should add, right-click => open-with => The GIMP was bearable for her, 
but she really feels at home with "drag this picture onto this program 
to work with it".

Cheers; Leon

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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Alastair M. Robinson]

Hi Sven,

Sven Neumann wrote:


True enough - drag'n'drop and gimp-remote are very useful
here. Personally I tend to drag'n'drop from GQView into The GIMP - but
the usefulness of DnD is hampered in stock Gnome by the impossibility
of turning off click-to-front.


Right-click any image in gwview and choose Edit->in The GIMP (or Ctrl-1).


Yep, I do that too.  But surely we should be trying to maximise the 
usability of the dialogs rather than merely suggesting that people don't 
use them?


(Not that I'm complaining about the Open dialog :) )


But the entry does support entering absolute paths directly.


Oh good.  I'm a few versions behind on my Linux machine because I don't 
currently have time to update GTK, FreeType and everything else :)



I already said that it could be done but that I am not convinced that
it is a change to the better.


I'm not suggesting that it should always be open - just that it should 
remember its last status.


I would personally find that a huge improvement; somehow not being able 
to see "where" in the filesystem you are is a bit disorienting.


All the best,
--
Alastair M. Robinson
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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Leon Brooks]

On Sunday 19 June 2005 18:02, Sven Neumann wrote:
>> the alien appearance of the file-open dialog gets it categorised
>> in her artistic little brain as being completely different to a
>> KDE dialog aimed at exactly the same set of files.

> Why is she using the file open dialog at all? She could as well use
> the file manager and drag the files into GIMP.

Now that I know it works, she's dragging a link from Konqueror and 
dropping it on GIMP to open files.

GNOME weirded her out completely; KDE was different enough to disturb 
her.

Cheers; Leon

-- 
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Re: [gwidion@mpc.com.br: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Sven Neumann]

Hi,

Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> But the entry does support entering absolute paths directly.

and of course also relative paths


Sven
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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Sven Neumann]

Hi,

"Alastair M. Robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> Why is she using the file open dialog at all? She could as well use
>> the file manager and drag the files into GIMP. The file open dialog
>> should really only be used if the file isn't readily selected
>> elsewhere which should be rather unlikely if you are working in a
>> document oriented way.
>
> True enough - drag'n'drop and gimp-remote are very useful
> here. Personally I tend to drag'n'drop from GQView into The GIMP - but
> the usefulness of DnD is hampered in stock Gnome by the impossibility
> of turning off click-to-front.

Right-click any image in gwview and choose Edit->in The GIMP (or Ctrl-1).

> Yes, for me the Save dialog is an annoyance.  I very rarely want to
> save directly into the default directory, and changing directories
> takes too much mousework, and is clumsy with the keyboard (tabbing to
> get the focus in the right place, then Ctrl-L, then enter path...)  Is
> there any reason why the save dialog's filename entry box can't
> support paths directly?

But the entry does support entering absolute paths directly.

> Could the expanded/collapsed status of the directory selector be made
> persistent across sessions?

I already said that it could be done but that I am not convinced that
it is a change to the better.


Sven
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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Alastair M. Robinson]

Hi Sven,

Sven Neumann wrote:


Why is she using the file open dialog at all? She could as well use
the file manager and drag the files into GIMP. The file open dialog
should really only be used if the file isn't readily selected
elsewhere which should be rather unlikely if you are working in a
document oriented way.


True enough - drag'n'drop and gimp-remote are very useful here. 
Personally I tend to drag'n'drop from GQView into The GIMP - but the 
usefulness of DnD is hampered in stock Gnome by the impossibility of 
turning off click-to-front.  (I'm technically minded and motivated 
enough to apply a patch, but end users aren't).


DnD can also be a problem between multiple desktops.


Also, you might want to explain bookmarks to your wife. She might find
the dialog a lot more usable then.


Bookmarks are indeed great.


What I am missing is support for XDS in the common desktops so that
one would have to use the file save dialog less.


Yes, for me the Save dialog is an annoyance.  I very rarely want to save 
directly into the default directory, and changing directories takes too 
much mousework, and is clumsy with the keyboard (tabbing to get the 
focus in the right place, then Ctrl-L, then enter path...)  Is there any 
reason why the save dialog's filename entry box can't support paths 
directly?


Could the expanded/collapsed status of the directory selector be made 
persistent across sessions?


All the best,
--
Alastair M. Robinson
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[Gimp-developer] Prototype PDF import GIMP plug-in based on poppler

[Nathan Summers]

I've created an initial version of a PDF import plugin for GIMP that
uses poppler.  Currently this version has little to offer compared to
the existing ghostscript-based PDF import plugin, but I feel like a
poppler-based plug-in has much more potential in the long run.

While this version uses poppler to render whole pages, it would be
nice if it were possible to access individual elements, such as boxes
of text or images, and have each rendered into a separate GIMP layer.
Currently, there isn't enough exposed to the glib bindings to make
this possible.

This initial version is downloadable at
http://rockwalrus.dyndns.org/~rockwlrs/gimp-poppler , and should be
buildable with the appropriate libgimp devel package.  I would very
much appreciate it if some poppler developers took a look at what is
there already and let their imaginations run wild.  :)

Rockwalrus
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Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ

[Sven Neumann]

Hi,

Leon Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> The issue for most people, I'm guessing, will be that the whole flow
> of the dialog is alien to everything else around it as well. It has
> the whole "dumbed down but if you click on Advanced enough times you
> might get somewhere" feeling, compared to the relatively cluttered
> and intimidating (but also efficient) KDE dialogs.

So the main complaint is that the dialog (which one?) shows up with
the expanders collapsed? That is something that could be taken care of
even though I am not convinced that it would be a change to the
better.

> This is something which (as a techie) I don't find too disturbing, but 
> which drives my wife completely twittery. She is an artist and a 
> musician, not a techie (which is one reason I'm interested in doing 
> artistic brushes for GIMP). I've "tricked" her into using GIMP for 
> cropping and scaling images for EBay, but the alien appearance of the 
> file-open dialog gets it categorised in her artistic little brain as 
> being completely different to a KDE dialog aimed at exactly the same 
> set of files.

Why is she using the file open dialog at all? She could as well use
the file manager and drag the files into GIMP. The file open dialog
should really only be used if the file isn't readily selected
elsewhere which should be rather unlikely if you are working in a
document oriented way.

Also, you might want to explain bookmarks to your wife. She might find
the dialog a lot more usable then.

What I am missing is support for XDS in the common desktops so that
one would have to use the file save dialog less.


Sven
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Re: [gwidion@mpc.com.br: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ (-: sooner or later :-) KDEification of GIMP]

[Sven Neumann]

Hi,

<[EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann )> writes:

>> to be the case with the early implementations but certainly not with
>> the latest GTK+ 2.6 releases. The file dialog is getting better and
>> better with each release.
>
> You keep repeating this as if it were some kind of religion - why do you
> ignore the people who simply disagree? Of course the new dialogs have many
> more features, but they are _much_ less usable for _some_ people. This is
> a simple fact.
>
> You should really accept that, even if it works for you, and even if you
> cannot understand it.

I do accept that but I would like people to point out exactly what
problems they have instead of just saying that they dislike the new
dialogs. Without detailed complaints we can't do anything to improve
the situation.


Sven
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