> Andrew wrote:
>
> There is no heat requirement. I use low wattage (?)
> seedling heat pads...
A heating pad is a heater.
> ... that draw almost no current.
"almost no current" when there is 115 VAC in the wall outlet
is not the same as battery power!
> Typically these:
>
Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:
Philip writes:
A quick look at Amazon for
prices results in almost $500 to >run two heat pads.
Which is why, without subsidies, solar makes NO economic sense.
Medium-large name brand home panels can be had for under $1 per rated watt.
So figure $0.20-0.25
All you really need are a couple of group 49 or 93 batteries, a battery charger
and a cheap inverter.
Every morning and evening, put a freshly charged battery in the shed and take
the other one to
the house and put it on the charger. Consider it free exercise carrying 50lb
batteries around.
Philip writes:
>A quick look at Amazon for
>prices results in almost $500 to >run two heat pads.
Which is why, without subsidies, solar makes NO economic sense.
Rick
Sent from my BlackBerry Z10
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives
"Tulip poplar" as you know is a misnomer for Liriodendron, a member of the
magnolia family. Fast growing but basically useless tree except for shade;
has a love affair with lightning due to high H20 content.
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Yup, what is it? Occam's razor or something similar - use the simplest
solution?
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> On 08/09/2015 8:22 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the insights. Looks like I may simply run an
Thanks for the insights. Looks like I may simply run an extension cord
across the back 40 to the shed for the 2 week incubation period..
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Philip writes:
>>
>> A quick
<astrasfo...@gmail.com>
To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
Is ash categorized as a hard or soft wood for wood heat purp
From: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
> To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
>
> Is ash categorize
the house, should drive down our oil and wood
bill seriously.
-Curt
From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [
se,
> should drive down our oil and wood bill seriously.
> -Curt
> From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 12:19 PM
&g
aymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
OSB??
Does ash split easily? IIRC black locust is numero uno in heat value but
extremely tough to spl
On 08/09/2015 8:22 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
Thanks for the insights. Looks like I may simply run an extension cord
across the back 40 to the shed for the 2 week incubation period..
BINGO! WE HAVE A WINNER!
RB
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
least twice that amount, and solar input
> > > should obviously be enough to exceed usage.
> > >
> > > I agree with others that the heat requirement likely would overwhelm
> the
> > > capabilities of a solar system.
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
&g
rsday, September 03, 2015 10:11 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
> Subject: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
>
> I would like to electrify my shed in the back 40 in order to provide 1)
> simple overhead lighting and 2) a 110V outlet for grow mats under m
usage.
> >
> > I agree with others that the heat requirement likely would overwhelm the
> > capabilities of a solar system.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
>
Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Strasfogel via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 10:11 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
I would like to electrify my shed in the back 40
My bad. I'm guessing that is because of heating issues which would
be minimal outside, but I get it. I might even have known that at
some point. The single wire stuff is tmmw or something like that, it
has a higher temp rated insulation.
--R (sent from my miniPad)
On Sep 3, 2015, at 6:25
> On September 4, 2015 at 12:27 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
>
> We don't have glacial till (tilth is a term referring to the tillable
> quality of the soil) around here but rocks and roots are plentiful.
Using the vibrating blade on a Ditch Witch,
I had a final plumbing and gas line inspection yesterday, the inspector
is a cool guy I like, he sorta looked at it for about 10 seconds and
signed off, we chatted for another half hour and he recommended I do the
rest of the work in the house without telling anyone about it. Turns
out he
Thanks - that helps. I wonder why there is no simple kit that goes
from PV
to 110 V without all the interconnecting parapernalia, battery,
inverters,
etc.
Because unlike a politician's promise, the 'kit' purchaser would
expect results and would be mightily pissed when the simple kit didn't
> > On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:46:18 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via
> > Mercedes wrote:
>
> > Thanks - that helps. I wonder why there is no simple kit
> > that goes from PV to 110 V without all the
> > interconnecting parapernalia, battery, inverters, etc.
> Craig wrote:
>
>
There are plenty of solar power kits, for example:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Grape-Solar-400-Watt-Off-Grid-Solar-Panel-Kit-GS-
400-KIT/203505963
Just Google: "110v solar power kit for shed"
But they aren't cheap if you get a useful capacity and they won't last near
as long as a buried cable.
I would like to electrify my shed in the back 40 in order to provide 1)
simple overhead lighting and 2) a 110V outlet for grow mats under my
seedlings next spring.
I might also want to recharge batteries for a B trimmer, although this is
a lesser priority.
There is a sunny spot where I could
I have been thinking about something similar for a shed I want to
build. Harbor Freight has some fairly cheap solar panels of not
particularly high wattage, that would be cheap enough to do a test set
up. Buy one, hook it to a battery/inverter (I think they might come
with a 12V battery
60' uphill. :(
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> What happened to renting a DitchWitch and buying a spool of direct burial
> cable? How many feet is the run between the house and shed?
>
>
>
> > On Sep 3, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Andrew
So you start at the top?
Dan
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
>
> 60' uphill. :(
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> > wrote:
> What happened to renting a DitchWitch
Just use direct burial stuff. Then you don’t have to mess around with conduit.
Dan
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 3:03 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:
>
> Dig the thing downhill. Lay some flex conduit and stuff a pair of romex
> inside.
>
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 11:54 AM,
On 03/09/2015 12:11 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
I would like to electrify my shed in the back 40 in order to provide 1)
simple overhead lighting and 2) a 110V outlet for grow mats under my
seedlings next spring.
I might also want to recharge batteries for a B trimmer, although
Extension cord from the house to the shed would be vetoed immediately by
SWMBO.
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Andrew Strasfogel
wrote:
> Thanks - that helps. I wonder why there is no simple kit that goes from
> PV to 110 V without all the interconnecting parapernalia,
What happened to renting a DitchWitch and buying a spool of direct burial
cable? How many feet is the run between the house and shed?
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Rich. The house and shed are too far apart to run
Dig the thing downhill. Lay some flex conduit and stuff a pair of romex inside.
On Sep 3, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> 60' uphill. :(
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> What happened to renting a
True.
It’s against code to run phone with power, or any other signal wiring, I
believe. Not to mention you risk inducing a voltage into it, which can wreak
all kinds of havoc.
Dan
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 3:29 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Then it is easier
Thanks, Rich. The house and shed are too far apart to run a 110 V line
(got a quote for $2000 from a licensed electrician, half of which was for
digging a deep trench).
I am still puzzled at how to plug in my heat mats into a solar setup. Send
me some links plesae.
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 1:57
Then it is easier to put a shovel through too! 1" PVC conduit is cheap
and no harder to bury than romex, plus you can run a phone line or
something else in it too if you want.
--R
On 9/3/15 3:08 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
Just use direct burial stuff. Then you don’t have to mess
> Andrew wrote:
>
> I am still puzzled at how to plug in my heat mats into a
> solar setup.
A solar panel will generate direct current (DC). A power
cell - and therefore a battery - can only store DC. If you
need alternating current (AC), then a converter is needed.
It is called an "inverter".
Thanks - that helps. I wonder why there is no simple kit that goes from PV
to 110 V without all the interconnecting parapernalia, battery, inverters,
etc.
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 3:46 PM, fmiser via Mercedes
wrote:
> > Andrew wrote:
> >
> > I am still puzzled at how to
2015 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
I have been thinking about something similar for a shed I want to
build. Harbor Freight has some fairly cheap solar panels of not
particularly high wattage, that would be cheap enough to do a test set
up. Buy one, hook it
60' uphill. :(
Easy! all you need is a trenching spade, an afternoon, and a 100'
roll of #12 UF wire. (12-2 with ground)
(oh, and a spare breaker space in the panel)
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http://www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives
;
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
60' uphill. :(
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> What happened to renting a DitchWitch and buying a spool of direct burial
> cable? Ho
Go and buy a 100 foot power cord. Minimum 12/3. I saw one in a flyer
this morning for $50 here and you can likely get it there for less.
That should be sufficient for your heating mats unless you are using a
lot of them.
Don't expect any code issues if you just plug it in at the house and at
> Rich wrote:
>
> 1" PVC conduit is cheap and no harder to bury than romex,
> plus you can run a phone line or something else in it too
> if you want.
PLEASE not in the same conduit!
NEC (National Electric Code) won't allow it - because it's
not very safe.
There probably is if you look around. It won’t be cheap, however.
Doing it yourself is really pretty easy. As previously described, you only
need three things:
PV panel
12V battery
Inverter (DC to AC)
Work backwards by calculating your load. If you’ve got 100W of 110VAC load,
you’ll need
Inrush current.
Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred.
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:46:18 -0400
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> CC: astrasfo...@gmail.com; fmi...@gmail.com
>
> Thanks - that
How long is it going to be in use?
I assumed that your seedling warming is only for a short time.
Why would she object to the use of a cord for such a short term purpose?
RB
On 03/09/2015 2:47 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
Extension cord from the house to the shed would be vetoed
> WILTON wrote:
>
> Buried mine for about 120' to outbuilding (a little more
> than a shed - a shed doesn't usually have a slate roof) 27
> years ago all by myself using a flat shovel to make a slit
> about 10" deep.
10 inches [25 cm] is not really deep enough to be safe. A
child and a shovel,
> > Andrew wrote:
> >
> > 60' uphill. :(
> Curly wrote:
>
> Easy! all you need is a trenching spade, an afternoon, and
> a 100' roll of #12 UF wire. (12-2 with ground)
60ft? One afternoon? That sounds like Iowa. *smiles*
Around here, there is so much rock and clay that it took me
and a
t;astrasfo...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
60' uphill. :(
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
What happened to renting a DitchWitch and buying a spoo
ail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
Extension cord from the house to the shed would be vetoed immediately by
SWMBO.
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Thanks - that helps.
Agreed. +1 but, I'd suggest a trenching spade in place of a shovel.
Makes quicker work of it. Also, I've been told that you cant run
type NM ("romex") in a conduit as it is against code. Makes no sense
to me, but you have to use the "pulling type" (I forget the type)
single wires in
Electrical code book does NOT permit running Romex wire inside conduit.
Thus, you should not.
I suggest you rent a walk behind engine driven trencher. With reasonable
soil, you can trench 100 ft in 1 hr of run time to a depth of 18 inches.
Then lay "Direct burial Romex wire" into the trench.
for solar: Much simpler to use a PV panel to generate, one or more
12V batteries to store, and 12vDC lighting and heater units. No
inverter needed unless you want to run a corded drill.
a century ago, the Delco light plant worked in a similar manner. A
generator, generating DC, batteries,
> > > Rich wrote:
> > >
> > > 1" PVC conduit is cheap and no harder to bury than romex,
> > > plus you can run a phone line or something else in it
> > > too if you want.
> > PLEASE not in the same conduit!
> >
> > NEC (National Electric Code) won't allow it - because it's
> > not very safe.
>
- Original Message -
From: "Rich Thomas via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "Rich Thomas" <richthomas79td...@constructivity.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar
--- From: "fmiser via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> To: <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: "fmiser" <fmi...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 9:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
>
>
> WILTON wrot
;
> Cc: Dan Penoff <d...@penoff.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
>
> What happened to renting a DitchWitch and buying a spool of direct burial
> cable? How many feet is the run between the house and shed?
>
>
>
> > On Sep 3, 201
rcedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:11 PM
Subject: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
I would like to electrify my shed in the back 40 in order to provide 1)
simple overhead lighting an
Andrew, google the word "shovel" I have relocated my water line, dug up
my buried power line, relocated my buried phone line (OK my wife did
that because she wanted to do something useful outside) using a shovel.
It is ancient technology. you only have to go down a little ways and
bury some
120 V in a residential application is 12"
http://www.irrigation.org/uploadedFiles/Certification/National%20Electric%20Code.pdf
Scroll down to the first table.
18" for commercial in plastic conduit. 24" commercial without conduit.
6" residential for low voltage
> WILTON wrote:
Buried
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 22:45:42 -0400 Rich Thomas via Mercedes
wrote:
> The single wire stuff is tmmw or something like that, it has a higher
> temp rated insulation.
THHN
Craig
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives
Yep.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "fmiser via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "fmiser" <fmi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
WI
3, 2015 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
> > Andrew wrote:
> >
> > 60' uphill. :(
> Curly wrote:
>
> Easy! all you need is a trenching spade, an afternoon, and
> a 100' roll of #12 UF wire. (12-2 with ground)
60ft? One afternoon? T
rcedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Curly McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Practical solar application
120 V in a residential application is 12"
http://www.irrigation.org/uploadedFiles/Certificat
My bad. I'm guessing that is because of heating issues which would be minimal
outside, but I get it. I might even have known that at some point. The single
wire stuff is tmmw or something like that, it has a higher temp rated
insulation.
--R (sent from my miniPad)
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 6:25
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 20:12:34 -0500 Curly McLain via Mercedes
wrote:
> 120 V in a residential application is 12"
>
> http://www.irrigation.org/uploadedFiles/Certification/National%20Electric%20Code.pdf
> Scroll down to the first table.
Yes, that is correct! But you do need
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:46:18 -0400 Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
wrote:
> Thanks - that helps. I wonder why there is no simple kit that goes
> from PV to 110 V without all the interconnecting parapernalia, battery,
> inverters, etc.
Because it cannot be done without all
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