On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1:03 PM, craig...@comcast.net wrote:
[Platt]
The SOM premise is self-evident and thus invisible to the
intellectual level of patterns.
I don't think this is possible. Self-evident means easily seen
invisible means cannot be seen. They are contradictory.
Craig
Hi Ian,
Excellent point. Demonstrates limits of intellect and frees one to seek
truth between the cracks of static patterns. Or, as Ayn Rand counseled,
Check you premises.
Platt
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.comwrote:
Platt Craig, both criticising
All:
In new book by a couple of academic philosophers has suddenly made a splash
in the press. Both the New York Times and the Wall St. Journal contain
articles today about “All Things Shining,” a book by professional
philosophers Hubert Dreyfus at Berkeley and Sean Dorrance Kelly at Harvard.
The
Hi Horse,
What are you saying? That your interpretation of the intellectual level is a
Papal Bull when Pirsig himself says his own interpretation is not to be
taken as such?
Platt
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
Duck and dive eh Marsha. Avoid the
:34 PM, Platt Holden platthol...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Ian,
Excellent point. Demonstrates limits of intellect and frees one to seek
truth between the cracks of static patterns. Or, as Ayn Rand counseled,
Check you premises.
Platt
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Ian Glendinning
On 31/12/2010 16:40, Platt Holden wrote:
Hi Horse,
What are you saying? That your interpretation of the intellectual level is
a
Papal Bull when Pirsig himself says his own interpretation is not to be
taken as such?
Platt
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Horseho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote
While Horse and DMB may find Marsha's explanations of her position
insincere, dishonest and evasive, I find them sincere, honest and direct.
It's a matter of opinion. For someone to set himself up as the arbiter of
the one right way to think and speak is not only presumptuous but
insufferably
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 3:34 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Platt]
Well Ian, if you find a way intellect can avoid paradox or infinite
regress...
[Arlo]
Symbolic representations of reality are inherently self-referential. This
is
not something that can be overcome, it is
the thought police and freedom of speech etc.
Red herrings, bullshit, nonsense.
Try a new song.
Horse
Crap? Bullshit? Red herrings? Nonsense? New song? And you find Marsha's
rhetoric lacking? Pardon me while I laugh.
Platt
On 31/12/2010 22:16, Platt Holden wrote:
While Horse and DMB may find
/052080.html
and as per usual you and Marsha have continued to ignore all of my requests
both then and subsequently.
So have a good laugh Platt.
Then start paying attention if you want to carry on contributing to MD.
Horse
On 31/12/2010 23:14, Platt Holden wrote:
Crap? Bullshit? Red
The MOQ overcomes the limitations of intellect by attributing a part of
knowledge, indeed the part that make knowledge possible, to that which is
nonconceptual and thus nonintellectual. That seems to be what critics of
Marsha, Bo, Mary and others either refuse to or can't grasp.
Platt
On Fri,
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 10:17 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
On Dec 30, 2010, at 9:48 AM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR wrote:
[Marsha]
Language, with it grammatical rules, has most certainly evolved to
reflect
humanities subject-object metaphysical underpinning.
[Arlo]
Grammatical rules
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 1:08 PM, craig...@comcast.net wrote:
[Arlo]
If Bo's MOQ is better than Pirsig's MOQ,
please explain to me how?
[Platt]
It [Bo's MoQ] places the conceptually unknown within the moral hierarchy.
So Pirsig's MoQ doesn't???
He tentatively suggests a Code of Art
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Matt Kundert pirsigafflict...@hotmail.com
wrote:
I predict that Pirsig will be remembered, but for his criticisms and
insights about culture, rather than for his systematic
philosophy.
That was my point back in 2002, and I still think that's right.
means.
Platt.
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 7:45 AM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
On 12/12/2010 22:52, Platt Holden wrote:
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Horseho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
The behaviour of students in London reflects the poor decisions of
parliament.
[Platt]
Students
Hi Horse,
Like many other things, we have a difference of opinion on what it means to
know. So I'll leave it at that.
Regards,
Platt
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
Hi Platt
On 12/12/2010 21:25, Platt Holden wrote:
Hi Horse,
Our difference seems
ask you and everyone else to refrain from
making these sorts of political comments so if you get a mouthful from me
for doing something I've, officially and as list administrator, asked you
not to do don't then start complaining. You've only got yourself to blame.
On 13/12/2010 13:19, Platt
Hi All:
All problems come from two sources -- government and stupid people.
By being you you create an experience for others you will never experience.
Cooperation without coercion is a devastating fiction. -- Robert Pirsig
Every new government regulation takes away another bit of individual
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 9:01 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Arlo]
This whole big bad academics nonsense is really getting sad.
[Platt]
The behavior of students in London reflects what academia teaches. That's
what sad.
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
The behaviour of students in London reflects the poor decisions of
parliament.
[Platt]
Students have been taught that it's OK to riot against a duly elected
democratic government, threatening lives and destroying property for
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Arlo Bensinger ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Ron]
First off, in this context those two quotes contradict each other.
[Arlo]
The SOLists are trapped in SOL, Ron.
ALL descriptions of reality are contained within the reality they describe.
I mean, can you name me
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Arlo Bensinger ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Platt]
A mistake perennially repeated by intellectuals who inhabit the SOL. One
can only know the value truth of the statement All descriptions of reality
are contained within the reality they describe by stepping
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Arlo Bensinger ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Platt]
Hofstadter and you, trapped beyond help in SOL concepts and thus incapable
of Dynamic understanding.
[Arlo]
No, free of them, unlike the SOLists so mired in SOM they think they can
step outside, trapped in an
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:01 PM, Arlo Bensinger ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Platt]
Never free as you illustrate your own entrapment in SOL.
[Arlo]
The entrapment of SOL is that you think you can step outside, the very
fallacy of SOM the MOQ was designed to counter.
To quote the Buddha to
All:
Today's NY Times contains an article entitled Kung Fu for Philosophers. It
describes a worldview that goes far beyond the martial arts we in the West
associate with Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan and others. A few quotes should pique
your interest in reading the full article:
As many scholars have
Hi John,
Very interesting.
Platt
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 4:59 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
Just finished an interesting section in Wallace's book on meditation.
Galileo wasn't persecuted by the church men and priests and such.
According
to this author, he was persecuted by
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Arlo Bensinger ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Platt]
In order to climb outside the structure, one must first create a structure
outside.
Precisely why the MOQ structure must be outside its own intellectual level
structure..
Bo's SOL is right.
[Arlo]
Of course,
is right.
On 07/12/2010 15:48, Platt Holden wrote:
Again Pirsig:
You can't have box 'A' (the MOQ) contain within itself box 'B'
(intellectual level) which in turn contains box 'A.' (the MOQ). That's
whacko. (Parens added.)
Bo's SOL is right.
(Under the rules this is my final post
Hi Mark,
You're a wise man, Charlie Brown, i.e., Mark, as noted below.:
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 4:24 PM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
Horses statement (cut) sounds more like a paradox to refute an
argument. This was popular amongst the Sophists so he is certainly in
character for MOQ.
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Arlo Bensinger ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Platt]
In order to climb outside the structure, one must first create a structure
outside.
Precisely why the MOQ structure must be outside its own intellectual level
structure..
Bo's SOL is right.
[Arlo]
Of course,
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
Yep - the Intellectual level contains both metaphysical systems, SOM and
MoQ. It's the metaphysics bit which is a clue.
So Bo was wrong.
On 07/12/2010 15:13, Platt Holden wrote:
Pirsig
As far as I know the MOQ does
Hi Mark.
In order to climb outside the structure, one must first create a structure
outside.
Precisely why the MOQ structure must be outside its own intellectual level
structure..
Bo's SOL is right.
Thanks,
Platt
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 1:15 PM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Marsha,
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 1:13 AM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
There has been little written on the process of natural selection
itself, except that it may be somewhat random. So random mutation
facing random selection, causes ordered life. In my opinion, any
proclamation of randomness
Hi Horse,
Have you ever given any thought of what music might represent the MOQ? I
can't think of any metaphysical music as a type like popular, patriotic,
religious, national, classical, rock and roll, etc. but perhaps I've
overlooked a genre. Nor can conceive of any music that might be
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 12:57 PM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
Platt
Then there are those professors who base their course on a book they
have written and require their students to buy it, otherwise known as
a protection racket.
[Mark]
From my experience, academics is very insular
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 4:38 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.comwrote:
If you want to know about unethical behavior to promote book sales, just
look into what happens to books put out by right-wing politicians. Talk
about unethical! Sarah Palin's book and books like that are purchased
On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:20 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Platt]
As for brainwashing, one only need poll the predominant political
orientation
of undergraduates to discover its overwhelming presence in academia.
[Arlo]
So you admit, by this reasoning, that since the
Hi Marsha,
Well put. We think in SOM (the intellectual level) but are really in
level-free MOQ all the time, the wordless instants prior to the
spontaneous-murdering methodologies of reasoning.
Platt .
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:09 PM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
My interpretation of the
Confused? Pathetic? Name callers automatically lose a debate.
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 9:16 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Platt]
Nice try to avoid the issue. Compare the human misery resulting from the
actions of big business and big government from the 1890's to the present,
Yes, you lost, again..
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:42 AM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Platt]
Confused? Pathetic? Name callers automatically lose a debate.
[Arlo]
Right. Couldn't pass the distortion off, and so you back out. Gotcha.
Summary
Arlo: the conditions by which the
Name callers always lose. You qualify as a big-time loser.
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:44 AM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.eduwrote:
[Platt]
Yes, you lost, again..
[Arlo]
My only failure continues to be one of overestimation.
Summary
Arlo: the conditions by which the majority of people
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 6:34 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.comwrote:
Platt said:
... In Chapters 22 and 24 of Lila, Pirsig lays out how intellectuals have
played a prominent role in creating social paralysis. Is it any wonder that
there's an anti-intellectual crowd? One need only
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 6:14 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[DMB]
But the anti-intellectual crowd turns that on it's head, as if Ant and I
didn't
go to Oxford to put ourselves into heart of the lion's den.
[Arlo]
Right. And this is precisely the move to expand rationality
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Andre Broersen andrebroer...@gmail.comwrote:
Platt (for the millionth time)quoting Pirsig:
What makes the free-enterprise system superior is that the
socialists,reasoning intelligently and objectively, have inadvertently
closed the door to Dynamic Quality in
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 7:30 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Platt]
I'd be happy to compare and contrast the human misery resulting from the
actions of big business and big government. Shall we begin with robber
barons
vs. German national socialism?
[Arlo]
How about
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 7:30 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Platt]
I'd be happy to compare and contrast the human misery resulting from the
actions of big business and big government. Shall we begin with robber
barons
vs. German national socialism?
[Arlo]
How about
- Original Message -
From: david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2010 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] a-theism and atheism
Arlo said to dmb:
You know, the funny thing is that those who pride themselves for being
outside the wall
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 3:44 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.comwrote:
dmb says:
Yep, that's why it's so objectionable to extend free speech rights to
corporations. Democracy gives voice to the people, not to money. God, gold
and guns have had there turn and their rule does not serve
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 9:50 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[.
[Arlo]
I understand there is a lot of those damned interlictials going on, all
these
stoopid perfessers and their commie ideas mucking up the world for freedom
loving free thinkers. And while there are valid
Hi John C,
But of course, you and I are not to be taken seriously. After all, our
opinions don't arise
from getting good grades in grad school or having the approval of the Great
Author himself. Nor have we done the work necessary to be admitted to the
philosophy club. Thus, our intellectual
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 8:26 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.comwrote:
dmb says:
The most primitive tribe is intellectually guided? Not the way Pirsig uses
the word. As you may recall from Lila, he thinks socially guided societies
would include Victorian America, which still hasn't
Hi Horse,
On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 8:16 AM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
Hi Platt
On 17/11/2010 20:40, Platt Holden wrote:
Horse
I cannot see any reference by Pirsig to show that symbols are
imaginary or
not real so in what sense are you using the word 'real'?
Do you mean
Hi Mark,
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 1:01 PM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Platt,
[Platt previously]
As I've said, so long as the meaning of the word morality is confined
to
ideas of interpersonal relations -- to how we treat one another -- the
MOQ
cannot gain the wide
Hi Marsha,
A most apt quotation. It answers the question, Who is the I that knows me?
Ken Wilber calls this internal observer the Witness. Also, referred to by
the poet Wallace Stevens as beauty as in, The body dies; the body's
beauty lives.
Thanks for sharing,
Platt
On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at
Marsha,
Thank you. I'm astounded by the coincidence that recent posts from you, Mark
and John under different subject headings all focus on thought's limits and
the Buddhist belief that, as Pirsig wrote, Thought is not a path to
reality.
Unlike many other thinkers, Pirsig acknowledges thought's
Hi Marsha,
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 1:29 PM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
I think the Buddhist's would say that Conventional Reality is constructed
of
interdependent truths (static patterns of value). And I can see no reason
why some truths wouldn't be judged better than others. Like the
Hi All,
The following passage from Lila also strikes me as being applicable to
language:
The irony is that there are times when the culture actually fosters trance
and hypnosis to further its purposes. The theater's a form of hypnosis. So
are movies and TV. When you enter a movie theater you
Hi Marsha,
Right on. Why DMB and Arlo find it necessary to demean you at every
opportunity says more about them than they can ever say about you. Since
they love to offer psychological reasons for why people say the things they
do, I'll follow their lead and say the reason they savage you so much
Hi Horse,
Response below.
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
Hi Platt
So far you've said:
[Platt]
All words, numbers, punctuation and other aspects of language are imaginary
symbols, imaginary meaning not real.
[Platt]
As I stated and now repeat, all
Hi Horse,
Recently I've read a couple of references to someone having his post
bumped for exceeding
the 10K limit. Can you give me and perhaps others who wonder like I do what
constitutes 10K?
Like how many lines of 80 characters length? Or how many words? Or how many
inches. Or
whatever
Hi Horse,
OK. I get it. It's about eliminating unnecessary repetition, not limiting
responses or other original contributions, as I had erroneously assumed.
Thanks for explaining.
Platt.
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
Hi Platt
Don't panic - I'm only
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
Hi Platt
On 15/11/2010 21:50, Platt Holden wrote:
Hi Horse,
All words, numbers, punctuation and other aspects of language are
imaginary
symbols, imaginary meaning not real.
This is a problem of SOM - not MoQ. In MoQ
Hi Marsha,
Yes, Mr. Pirsig is a good man. He is generous in his compliments although I
suspect he
doesn't give them as ego-building props that DMB constantly needs.
But, if DMB wants to play the game of pin-a-rose-on-me, I humbly offer a
Pirsig accolade that is forever writ in Dan Glover's book,
Hi Marsha,
I agree. SOM is the level of manipulation of imaginary symbols which are
taken by some to have the same reality as concrete material existence. How
much is missed by this belief is wonderfully exposed in the paragraph you
quoted. The essence of the MOQ and reality cannot be captured
Mark,
Another quick first impression. First paragraph - worship of SOM. Second
paragraph - denial of DQ. Third paragraph - denial of moral universe. Last
three paragraphs - worship of collectivism.
Platt
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 12:12 PM, craig...@comcast.net wrote:
Mark,
Just a quick first
When Pirsig says DMB's thinking is brilliant, whether otherwise on one issue
or not, I'll be the first to congratulate him instead of trying to demean
him in a pitiful effort to build up my ego.
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 2:40 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.comwrote:
Platt said to Marsha:
Recall that DMB found it necessary to bring up Pirsig's compliment as a
look at me ego boost. I responded in kind to illustrate the shallowness
and sadness of the pin-a-rose-on-me gambit. Obviously, the irony went right
over your head.
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 3:06 PM, Arlo Bensinger
are running amok—in short, that the
humanistic assumptions upon which our societies are grounded lack validity.
John
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Platt Holden platthol...@gmail.com
wrote:
Mark,
Another quick first impression. First paragraph - worship of SOM. Second
paragraph - denial
or symbols within SOM.
Horse
On 15/11/2010 17:10, Platt Holden wrote:
SOM is the level of manipulation of imaginary symbols which are taken by
some to have the same reality as concrete material existence.
--
Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production
deadlines
John C,
Great post. Thanks.
Platt
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 4:35 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
Mark,
I think you make a couple of important points:
[Mark]
Intellect is a tough one, I would say that the discussion of intellectual
ideas requires SOM. I believe this is
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 2:14 PM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi A,
[Mark]
My interpretation of will is that it comes before thoughts. I could say
that in the begining was will. I usually call this intent or intention.
This kind of removes it from notions such as will power and such.
living in wonder to wondering what can we figure
out. A balance somewhere is needed.
Mark
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Platt Holden platthol...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 2:14 PM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi A,
[Mark]
My interpretation
On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Ham Priday hampd...@verizon.net wrote:
As I've said before, I was drawn to the MoQ while researching Value for my
website, and was invited to join the MD by Mr. Pirsig in a short response to
a query about his Quality thesis. That was in 2004. Since then,
Hi Mark,
Seeking understanding by asking questions is admirable. But, my point is
that some things passeth understanding. Some questions simply cannot be
answered by the static distinctions necessary for thought. All one can say,
like the Buddha, is, See for yourself. Once you intuitively accept
Hi Mark
Not sure what you see as the problem. Quality is defined for rational
metaphysical
purposes as direct experience prior to concepts. Quality need not be
analyzed any further than that. We witness entities at all levels responding
to
this better than that without thinking of any kind.
On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 5:24 AM, Andre Broersen andrebroer...@gmail.comwrote:
Platt to Andre:
I'll take the superiority of what works to what is superior in theory any
day. ..
Andre:
I thought we were discussing the MOQ. I thought we were discussing what is
considered in the MOQ as a
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Andre Broersen andrebroer...@gmail.comwrote:
Platt to Andre:
No, you are intellectually dishonest. You ignore his conclusion and are
still in denial that the free market is superior to socialism.
Andre:
Pirsig is talking about the WORKINGS of the free
On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Andre Broersen andrebroer...@gmail.comwrote:
Platt to Andre:
That helps, a little. Just to clarify my positions in your mind. 1) I don't
support religion.
Andre:
We can quibble into eternity what you mean by 'religion' and I don't feel
like doing that.
On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Andre Broersen andrebroer...@gmail.comwrote:
Platt to Andre:
Like DMB and others, you are in denial about Pirsig calling the free market
superior to socialism.
Andre previously:
These patterns Pirsig identifies and debunks as a continuation of
On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 12:27 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.comwrote:
Platt said to Andre:
Like DMB and others, you are in denial about Pirsig calling the free market
superior to socialism. He doesn't say capitalism has run amok. He does
say socialist cities are dull. Read it and
Hi Andre,
I would enjoy having a conversation with you. But I'm so ignorant that I
don't understand
your criticism based on your critical thinking. Since you are a fan of
such thinking, perhaps you could use step-by-step logic to make your points
to someone of my limited mental capacity and
Hi Ron,
Excellent idea. I look forward to your reasonable explanation of what
betterness means.
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 10:24 AM, X Acto xa...@rocketmail.com wrote:
I think it would be an excellent thread to start if we of likemindedness,
began
a conversation and inquirey
into what
Thanks Andre,
That helps, a little. Just to clarify my positions in your mind. 1) I don't
support religion. 2) I do support the free market system (like Pirsig), and
3) I do criticize intellectual patterns of value (like Pirsig). If I have
led you to think otherwise, I apologize for not making
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 5:47 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.comwrote:
Platt said to Andre:
Just to clarify my positions in your mind. 1) I don't support religion. 2)
I do support the free market system (like Pirsig), and 3) I do criticize
intellectual patterns of value (like
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
Hi Platt and Arlo
To be picky about this and given Platt's previous assertion that SOM didn't
exist until Pirsig described it, the time-line should be something like:
peyote-inspired revelation - critical thinking - MoQ
For all those who look askance at quotations taken out of context, a
practice DMB himself has railed against in another context, I invite them to
read the complete article at:
http://is2.lse.ac.uk/IanAngell/papers/First%20Mistake/Religion.htm
Then I think you will get an entirely different
Hi Craig,
Was Pirsig intellectually lazy and dishonest in generalizing
that capitalism was superior to socialism? I'm sure in doing
so he was aware of your valid point about generalizations.
But as he wrote, A science without generalization is no
science at all (Lila, 4).
Anyway, the MOQ is
What DMB always leaves out (for obvious reasons) is that Pirsig, after
saying all that about the intellectual superiority of socialism (a debatable
point because capitalism gets plenty of intellectual heft from Adam Smith to
F.A. Hayek to Milton Friedman) concludes with:
What makes the
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 7:09 PM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
In order for me to understand MOQ I believe an
understanding of the terms is necessary, some thought that goes into the
source of concepts such as SOM. Things arise for a reason. In my recent
response to A from Sweden, I
In 1934 the Volkischer Beobachter, the Nazi Party official newspaper,
described Roosevelt as a man of 'irreproachable, extremely responsible
character and immovable will' and a 'warmhearted leader of the people with a
profound understanding of social needs.' The paper emphasized that
Roosevelt,
Hi Mark,
It certainly is refreshing to have on this site someone who is willing
to challenge the politically correct party line. Pirsig did the same
in preferring capitalism to socialism, a position many here still can't
stomach.
Best,
Platt
- Original Message -
From: 118
under Roosevelt's New Deal but also thought Einstein was smart.
If true, that must mean that Eisenstein was a NAZI and the theory of
relativity is pure fascism. I also heard that some NAZIs liked dogs,
therefore, liking dogs is fascist.
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Platt Holden platthol
as completely unrestricted
free market libertarian capitalism versus totalitarian socialism if he
is a life-long Democrat.
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Platt Holden platthol...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Mark,
It certainly is refreshing to have on this site someone who is willing
Hi Andre,
Do you find it suggestive that the socialist party in charge in Germany
during WWII was mainly composed of authoritative personalities?
Best,
Platt
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Andre Broersen andrebroer...@gmail.comwrote:
Arlo to Mark:
Again, its like the woman who wanted
Here is the text of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
Congress shall make no law respecting and establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press, or of the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:07 AM, Andre Broersen andrebroer...@gmail.comwrote:
Platt to Andre:
Rather it's the Muslim ayatollahs who, in the name of Allah, promote
murder.
Andre:
No Platt, you are avoiding the question I asked. You said:'I think anyone
who thinks
they know better than
- Original Message -
From: ADRIE KINTZIGER parser...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:56 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
No , i did not miss the partdirect harm, it is the direct-widget in
combination with the word harm that i find
- Original Message -
From: Ian Glendinning ian.glendinn...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
Hi Platt, you said
[Emergence] only describes what happened.
Which is good surely, ie it's honest and
- Original Message - From: ADRIE KINTZIGER parser...@gmail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:56 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] The Moral Landscape
No , i did not miss the partdirect harm, it is the direct-widget in
combination with the word harm that
started 8 years ago Platt, and I'm more interested
in honesty than word games.
Ian
Platt
8 years ago? Your memory is a lot better than mine. Did you then explain how
emergence explains anything? Please refresh my memory.
Platt.
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Platt Holden platthol...@gmail.com
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