Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Sapphireslinger]

I love the meaning implied by Kaleido:

bits of material are reflected in an endless variety of patterns

On Tuesday, January 5, 2021 at 11:25:18 AM UTC+8 Sapphireslinger wrote:

> Bitmanteau
>
> Tiddlywiki nicer though. 
>
> The only hassle I remember is trying to explain to my mom that a tiddler 
> was just another name for an entry.
>
> On Tuesday, January 5, 2021 at 11:11:32 AM UTC+8 Corey S wrote:
>
>> I haven't read everything yet, but to a possible name change, I was 
>> thinking of a name like BitWiki or something, if it hasn't been taken 
>> already.
>> A Bit = Tiddly
>>
>> On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 2:23:45 PM UTC-7 Ed Heil wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jeremy, 
>>>
>>> Re-reading this message (and studiously avoiding making any suggestions 
>>> for new names) the idea of "targeting more modern JavaScript engines" makes 
>>> me wonder about the question of "how modern a browser do you need to have 
>>> to have a working Tiddlywiki?"  
>>>
>>> With regards to minimum browsers for TW5, according to the web site it's 
>>> "Safari version 6" (from 2012!) IE version 10 (also from 2012!) and "all 
>>> recent" Chrome, Firefox, and Firefox for Android, whatever that means, but 
>>> presumably going back comparably far.  So right now TW5 is usable in 
>>> browsers that go about 8 years back, which is nice.  And TWC support 
>>> obviously goes back way further than that.
>>>
>>> How big a change in "you need this recent a browser" would you think was 
>>> acceptable in a "Xememex" project?
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 7:52:20 AM UTC-5 jeremy...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 As appealing as this sounds, I just don't think that as a small 
 community we have the resources to support both, unless the intention 
 would 
 be for TiddlyWiki 5 to only receive bug fix updates. 


 I think that would be the default, yes, unless somebody wanted to pick 
 up the development more purposefully.

 As you mention in a later reply, the real challenge is replacing the 
 word tiddler. I remember trying this in Classic and it wasn't easy then 
 and 
 is probably even harder now with all the widget attributes etc. Which 
 makes 
 me wonder if this would really be the best use of our time and resources?


 That is indeed one of the critical questions.

 Over the years we've had consistent feedback on the name "TiddlyWiki" 
 that ranges between:

 * I don't care about the name, it's just a meaningless string of letters
 * I think the name is fine, it's distinctive, and has few false 
 positives when Googling
 * I think the name diminishes TiddlyWiki
 * I think the name is a thinly veiled obscenity

 That last category is undoubtedly a minority, but it's a very 
 consistently and forcefully expressed opinion when it does come up. I used 
 to think that view said more about the people holding it than anything 
 else. But the trouble is that I'm too close to the thing: the name 
 "TiddlyWiki" is my little piece of wordplay, and I'm attached to it. I 
 think maybe that might hold for many of us who have invested time and 
 effort in the project. So I have to pay attention to feedback that comes 
 from a different perspective, because I'm never going to be able to assume 
 that perspective myself.

 The other consideration in all of this is my desire to modernise the 
 design of TW5 and establish a new baseline for backwards compatibility. 
 After 10 years, it's becoming increasingly limiting to live with some of 
 the early design decisions of TW5 (a lot of which are pretty arcane - for 
 example, "tiddlerfield" modules). I believe we would make faster and more 
 decisive progress if we lost some of that baggage.

 The idea of modernising the core relates to the naming change because 
 another bit of feedback that I received back in 2011-13 was that it was a 
 mistake to reuse the name TiddlyWiki for the new project. Many people felt 
 that it was unnecessarily confusing to have two distinct products with the 
 same name, and struggled with my perspective that TWC and TW5 were 
 different versions of the same thing.

 So, what I learned from all of the above is that names for communal 
 things are tricky. People have strong opinions because they feel they have 
 a stake. The thing that is particularly tricky is trying to change what an 
 existing name means if the previous meaning is entrenched in the community.

 In other words, I think TiddlyWiki 5 is ripe for such a thorough 
 internal overhaul that changing the names might not be as much of a 
 practical consideration as it would be if we had to maintain backwards 
 compatibility.

 Best wishes

 Jeremy.



 Cheers,
 Saq

 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Sapphireslinger]

Bitmanteau

Tiddlywiki nicer though. 

The only hassle I remember is trying to explain to my mom that a tiddler 
was just another name for an entry.

On Tuesday, January 5, 2021 at 11:11:32 AM UTC+8 Corey S wrote:

> I haven't read everything yet, but to a possible name change, I was 
> thinking of a name like BitWiki or something, if it hasn't been taken 
> already.
> A Bit = Tiddly
>
> On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 2:23:45 PM UTC-7 Ed Heil wrote:
>
>> Hi Jeremy, 
>>
>> Re-reading this message (and studiously avoiding making any suggestions 
>> for new names) the idea of "targeting more modern JavaScript engines" makes 
>> me wonder about the question of "how modern a browser do you need to have 
>> to have a working Tiddlywiki?"  
>>
>> With regards to minimum browsers for TW5, according to the web site it's 
>> "Safari version 6" (from 2012!) IE version 10 (also from 2012!) and "all 
>> recent" Chrome, Firefox, and Firefox for Android, whatever that means, but 
>> presumably going back comparably far.  So right now TW5 is usable in 
>> browsers that go about 8 years back, which is nice.  And TWC support 
>> obviously goes back way further than that.
>>
>> How big a change in "you need this recent a browser" would you think was 
>> acceptable in a "Xememex" project?
>>
>> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 7:52:20 AM UTC-5 jeremy...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As appealing as this sounds, I just don't think that as a small 
>>> community we have the resources to support both, unless the intention would 
>>> be for TiddlyWiki 5 to only receive bug fix updates. 
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that would be the default, yes, unless somebody wanted to pick 
>>> up the development more purposefully.
>>>
>>> As you mention in a later reply, the real challenge is replacing the 
>>> word tiddler. I remember trying this in Classic and it wasn't easy then and 
>>> is probably even harder now with all the widget attributes etc. Which makes 
>>> me wonder if this would really be the best use of our time and resources?
>>>
>>>
>>> That is indeed one of the critical questions.
>>>
>>> Over the years we've had consistent feedback on the name "TiddlyWiki" 
>>> that ranges between:
>>>
>>> * I don't care about the name, it's just a meaningless string of letters
>>> * I think the name is fine, it's distinctive, and has few false 
>>> positives when Googling
>>> * I think the name diminishes TiddlyWiki
>>> * I think the name is a thinly veiled obscenity
>>>
>>> That last category is undoubtedly a minority, but it's a very 
>>> consistently and forcefully expressed opinion when it does come up. I used 
>>> to think that view said more about the people holding it than anything 
>>> else. But the trouble is that I'm too close to the thing: the name 
>>> "TiddlyWiki" is my little piece of wordplay, and I'm attached to it. I 
>>> think maybe that might hold for many of us who have invested time and 
>>> effort in the project. So I have to pay attention to feedback that comes 
>>> from a different perspective, because I'm never going to be able to assume 
>>> that perspective myself.
>>>
>>> The other consideration in all of this is my desire to modernise the 
>>> design of TW5 and establish a new baseline for backwards compatibility. 
>>> After 10 years, it's becoming increasingly limiting to live with some of 
>>> the early design decisions of TW5 (a lot of which are pretty arcane - for 
>>> example, "tiddlerfield" modules). I believe we would make faster and more 
>>> decisive progress if we lost some of that baggage.
>>>
>>> The idea of modernising the core relates to the naming change because 
>>> another bit of feedback that I received back in 2011-13 was that it was a 
>>> mistake to reuse the name TiddlyWiki for the new project. Many people felt 
>>> that it was unnecessarily confusing to have two distinct products with the 
>>> same name, and struggled with my perspective that TWC and TW5 were 
>>> different versions of the same thing.
>>>
>>> So, what I learned from all of the above is that names for communal 
>>> things are tricky. People have strong opinions because they feel they have 
>>> a stake. The thing that is particularly tricky is trying to change what an 
>>> existing name means if the previous meaning is entrenched in the community.
>>>
>>> In other words, I think TiddlyWiki 5 is ripe for such a thorough 
>>> internal overhaul that changing the names might not be as much of a 
>>> practical consideration as it would be if we had to maintain backwards 
>>> compatibility.
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>>
>>> Jeremy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Saq
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Corey S]

I haven't read everything yet, but to a possible name change, I was 
thinking of a name like BitWiki or something, if it hasn't been taken 
already.
A Bit = Tiddly

On Monday, January 4, 2021 at 2:23:45 PM UTC-7 Ed Heil wrote:

> Hi Jeremy, 
>
> Re-reading this message (and studiously avoiding making any suggestions 
> for new names) the idea of "targeting more modern JavaScript engines" makes 
> me wonder about the question of "how modern a browser do you need to have 
> to have a working Tiddlywiki?"  
>
> With regards to minimum browsers for TW5, according to the web site it's 
> "Safari version 6" (from 2012!) IE version 10 (also from 2012!) and "all 
> recent" Chrome, Firefox, and Firefox for Android, whatever that means, but 
> presumably going back comparably far.  So right now TW5 is usable in 
> browsers that go about 8 years back, which is nice.  And TWC support 
> obviously goes back way further than that.
>
> How big a change in "you need this recent a browser" would you think was 
> acceptable in a "Xememex" project?
>
> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 7:52:20 AM UTC-5 jeremy...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> As appealing as this sounds, I just don't think that as a small community 
>> we have the resources to support both, unless the intention would be for 
>> TiddlyWiki 5 to only receive bug fix updates. 
>>
>>
>> I think that would be the default, yes, unless somebody wanted to pick up 
>> the development more purposefully.
>>
>> As you mention in a later reply, the real challenge is replacing the word 
>> tiddler. I remember trying this in Classic and it wasn't easy then and is 
>> probably even harder now with all the widget attributes etc. Which makes me 
>> wonder if this would really be the best use of our time and resources?
>>
>>
>> That is indeed one of the critical questions.
>>
>> Over the years we've had consistent feedback on the name "TiddlyWiki" 
>> that ranges between:
>>
>> * I don't care about the name, it's just a meaningless string of letters
>> * I think the name is fine, it's distinctive, and has few false positives 
>> when Googling
>> * I think the name diminishes TiddlyWiki
>> * I think the name is a thinly veiled obscenity
>>
>> That last category is undoubtedly a minority, but it's a very 
>> consistently and forcefully expressed opinion when it does come up. I used 
>> to think that view said more about the people holding it than anything 
>> else. But the trouble is that I'm too close to the thing: the name 
>> "TiddlyWiki" is my little piece of wordplay, and I'm attached to it. I 
>> think maybe that might hold for many of us who have invested time and 
>> effort in the project. So I have to pay attention to feedback that comes 
>> from a different perspective, because I'm never going to be able to assume 
>> that perspective myself.
>>
>> The other consideration in all of this is my desire to modernise the 
>> design of TW5 and establish a new baseline for backwards compatibility. 
>> After 10 years, it's becoming increasingly limiting to live with some of 
>> the early design decisions of TW5 (a lot of which are pretty arcane - for 
>> example, "tiddlerfield" modules). I believe we would make faster and more 
>> decisive progress if we lost some of that baggage.
>>
>> The idea of modernising the core relates to the naming change because 
>> another bit of feedback that I received back in 2011-13 was that it was a 
>> mistake to reuse the name TiddlyWiki for the new project. Many people felt 
>> that it was unnecessarily confusing to have two distinct products with the 
>> same name, and struggled with my perspective that TWC and TW5 were 
>> different versions of the same thing.
>>
>> So, what I learned from all of the above is that names for communal 
>> things are tricky. People have strong opinions because they feel they have 
>> a stake. The thing that is particularly tricky is trying to change what an 
>> existing name means if the previous meaning is entrenched in the community.
>>
>> In other words, I think TiddlyWiki 5 is ripe for such a thorough internal 
>> overhaul that changing the names might not be as much of a practical 
>> consideration as it would be if we had to maintain backwards compatibility.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Jeremy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Saq
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "TiddlyWiki" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/46fa1057-6405-463e-8ec2-b67532599227n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Ed Heil]

Hi Jeremy, 

Re-reading this message (and studiously avoiding making any suggestions for 
new names) the idea of "targeting more modern JavaScript engines" makes me 
wonder about the question of "how modern a browser do you need to have to 
have a working Tiddlywiki?"  

With regards to minimum browsers for TW5, according to the web site it's 
"Safari version 6" (from 2012!) IE version 10 (also from 2012!) and "all 
recent" Chrome, Firefox, and Firefox for Android, whatever that means, but 
presumably going back comparably far.  So right now TW5 is usable in 
browsers that go about 8 years back, which is nice.  And TWC support 
obviously goes back way further than that.

How big a change in "you need this recent a browser" would you think was 
acceptable in a "Xememex" project?

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 7:52:20 AM UTC-5 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

> As appealing as this sounds, I just don't think that as a small community 
> we have the resources to support both, unless the intention would be for 
> TiddlyWiki 5 to only receive bug fix updates. 
>
>
> I think that would be the default, yes, unless somebody wanted to pick up 
> the development more purposefully.
>
> As you mention in a later reply, the real challenge is replacing the word 
> tiddler. I remember trying this in Classic and it wasn't easy then and is 
> probably even harder now with all the widget attributes etc. Which makes me 
> wonder if this would really be the best use of our time and resources?
>
>
> That is indeed one of the critical questions.
>
> Over the years we've had consistent feedback on the name "TiddlyWiki" that 
> ranges between:
>
> * I don't care about the name, it's just a meaningless string of letters
> * I think the name is fine, it's distinctive, and has few false positives 
> when Googling
> * I think the name diminishes TiddlyWiki
> * I think the name is a thinly veiled obscenity
>
> That last category is undoubtedly a minority, but it's a very consistently 
> and forcefully expressed opinion when it does come up. I used to think that 
> view said more about the people holding it than anything else. But the 
> trouble is that I'm too close to the thing: the name "TiddlyWiki" is my 
> little piece of wordplay, and I'm attached to it. I think maybe that might 
> hold for many of us who have invested time and effort in the project. So I 
> have to pay attention to feedback that comes from a different perspective, 
> because I'm never going to be able to assume that perspective myself.
>
> The other consideration in all of this is my desire to modernise the 
> design of TW5 and establish a new baseline for backwards compatibility. 
> After 10 years, it's becoming increasingly limiting to live with some of 
> the early design decisions of TW5 (a lot of which are pretty arcane - for 
> example, "tiddlerfield" modules). I believe we would make faster and more 
> decisive progress if we lost some of that baggage.
>
> The idea of modernising the core relates to the naming change because 
> another bit of feedback that I received back in 2011-13 was that it was a 
> mistake to reuse the name TiddlyWiki for the new project. Many people felt 
> that it was unnecessarily confusing to have two distinct products with the 
> same name, and struggled with my perspective that TWC and TW5 were 
> different versions of the same thing.
>
> So, what I learned from all of the above is that names for communal things 
> are tricky. People have strong opinions because they feel they have a 
> stake. The thing that is particularly tricky is trying to change what an 
> existing name means if the previous meaning is entrenched in the community.
>
> In other words, I think TiddlyWiki 5 is ripe for such a thorough internal 
> overhaul that changing the names might not be as much of a practical 
> consideration as it would be if we had to maintain backwards compatibility.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Saq
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/46fa1057-6405-463e-8ec2-b67532599227n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[coda coder]

Hmm, so the physics theme has taken off? :)

I'm not complete enamored with it though, despite my preference to view 
"the field" as the fundamental. (Even that's a play, in case it got past 
you).

Aside: *Penrose*, I do like. He lives, I believe, not too far from Rushton 
Towers. And he was awarded the Nobel prize for physics, recently. I can 
envisage much play on "pen" and "rose" in terms of icons and "Englishness" 
(at least).

On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 2:10:01 PM UTC-6 Mark S. wrote:

> Don't forget Quarks. Of course, "QuarkXpress" is already taken.
>
> On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 11:44:57 AM UTC-8 hww...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Mohammad!
>>
>> Sorry, but in my "quantum state" I had overlooked electron. :-).  ( 
>> Thanks for the link. )
>>
>> Personally, I am quite happy with "TiddlyWiki", if only because ( like 
>> Charlie ) I prefer to not change Jargon.
>>
>> If Size is a prime consideration, however, then I would enjoy Boson ( 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boson ).  Based on what little I know of 
>> Theoretical Physics, I don't think there are likely to be any smaller 
>> references within Jeremy's promised 25 year time-span.  I could be wrong, 
>> of course, but I am unlikely to care since Kurzweil's singularity promise 
>> seems to be running late.
>>
>> On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 11:29:17 AM UTC-5 Mohammad wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Hans!
>>> But seriously we have such a name.
>>>
>>>
>>>1. Electron a famous framework lets create desktop apps using web 
>>>technology https://www.electronjs.org/
>>>2. Atom is great text editor https://www.electronjs.org/apps/atom
>>>3. Graviton a minimalistic code editor 
>>>https://www.electronjs.org/apps/graviton-editor
>>>
>>>
>>> Have a look at https://www.electronjs.org/apps supported by OpenJS and 
>>> you find quark.
>>>
>>> Just kidding: I prefer Tiddlywiki over atomic related things ;-)
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> Mohammad
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 6:50 PM Hans Wobbe  wrote:
>>>
 I'm probably spending too much time trying to understand Quantum 
 computing, so AtomicCards suggests (to me) a possible wish to go a bit 
 deeper and at least use subAtomic element names.  Quark? Maybe even Boson  
 or Fermion?

 Happy New Year!

 Hans

 On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 9:14:09 AM UTC-5 dix...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> AtomicCards™
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, at 2:14 AM, BurningTreeC wrote:
>
> I like the name "AtomCards"
>
> to add my two cents to the discussion :D
>
> positiv...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. Dezember 2020 um 07:14:43 
> UTC+1:
>
> I couldn't find if this topic has already been re-hashed this decade. 
> But I was wondering if there is any value in discussing alternative names 
> to the "Tiddly" part of the TiddlyWIki project. This project has been 
> around for so long that renaming / rebranding would be quite an effort. 
> And 
> the Tiddly part is unique within programming projects, which helps to 
> eliminate false positives when searching for sample code.
>
> I am an American living on the Pacific Coast, so my linguistic 
> preferences are definitely different from Jeremy's. But just saying the 
> word 'Tiddly' out loud feels like trying to get people from certain 
> Germany 
> dialects to say the word "Squirrel." It always feels forced to me.
>
> A joke by Lt. Commander Data on Star Trek the Next Generation was 
> about someone mispronouncing 'kidneys' as 'kiddleys.' We the store keeper 
> corrected him, the customer contested, "No, I said 'kiddleys.' Diddle I?"
>
> From just a project standpoint, the word 'Tiddly' is trying to focus 
> on the "small amount" of data or code that should be in any one unit. 
> This 
> way many units can be combined in various ways to satisfy different 
> needs. 
> Although it is intended to produce a Wiki-like user interface with deep 
> linking and back references, the way you go about it is by breaking up 
> large pieces of information into re-usable components.
>
> If your goal is to create "tiddlers," then using a TiddlyWiki 
> application would be a natural fit. If the goal of most people is to make 
> small units of re-usable components, then perhaps a different prefix 
> would 
> make it more appealing. Again, this is just a personal opinion and not a 
> slight on the TiddlyWiki project as a whole, which I have been using 
> frequently everyday.
>
> There have been two alternate words kicking around in my head lately. 
> TipWiki or DotWiki.
>
> 'Tip' has a very similar double meaning to Tiddly - drunk people can 
> be 'tiddly' or 'tipsy', and just the 'tip' of something or a 'tiddly' 
> amount of something is quite small. There is an additional English 
> meaning 
> of 'tip' to mean 'a small note or 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Don't forget Quarks. Of course, "QuarkXpress" is already taken.

On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 11:44:57 AM UTC-8 hww...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Mohammad!
>
> Sorry, but in my "quantum state" I had overlooked electron. :-).  ( Thanks 
> for the link. )
>
> Personally, I am quite happy with "TiddlyWiki", if only because ( like 
> Charlie ) I prefer to not change Jargon.
>
> If Size is a prime consideration, however, then I would enjoy Boson ( 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boson ).  Based on what little I know of 
> Theoretical Physics, I don't think there are likely to be any smaller 
> references within Jeremy's promised 25 year time-span.  I could be wrong, 
> of course, but I am unlikely to care since Kurzweil's singularity promise 
> seems to be running late.
>
> On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 11:29:17 AM UTC-5 Mohammad wrote:
>
>> Hi Hans!
>> But seriously we have such a name.
>>
>>
>>1. Electron a famous framework lets create desktop apps using web 
>>technology https://www.electronjs.org/
>>2. Atom is great text editor https://www.electronjs.org/apps/atom
>>3. Graviton a minimalistic code editor 
>>https://www.electronjs.org/apps/graviton-editor
>>
>>
>> Have a look at https://www.electronjs.org/apps supported by OpenJS and 
>> you find quark.
>>
>> Just kidding: I prefer Tiddlywiki over atomic related things ;-)
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Mohammad
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 6:50 PM Hans Wobbe  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm probably spending too much time trying to understand Quantum 
>>> computing, so AtomicCards suggests (to me) a possible wish to go a bit 
>>> deeper and at least use subAtomic element names.  Quark? Maybe even Boson  
>>> or Fermion?
>>>
>>> Happy New Year!
>>>
>>> Hans
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 9:14:09 AM UTC-5 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 AtomicCards™

 On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, at 2:14 AM, BurningTreeC wrote:

 I like the name "AtomCards"

 to add my two cents to the discussion :D

 positiv...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. Dezember 2020 um 07:14:43 
 UTC+1:

 I couldn't find if this topic has already been re-hashed this decade. 
 But I was wondering if there is any value in discussing alternative names 
 to the "Tiddly" part of the TiddlyWIki project. This project has been 
 around for so long that renaming / rebranding would be quite an effort. 
 And 
 the Tiddly part is unique within programming projects, which helps to 
 eliminate false positives when searching for sample code.

 I am an American living on the Pacific Coast, so my linguistic 
 preferences are definitely different from Jeremy's. But just saying the 
 word 'Tiddly' out loud feels like trying to get people from certain 
 Germany 
 dialects to say the word "Squirrel." It always feels forced to me.

 A joke by Lt. Commander Data on Star Trek the Next Generation was about 
 someone mispronouncing 'kidneys' as 'kiddleys.' We the store keeper 
 corrected him, the customer contested, "No, I said 'kiddleys.' Diddle I?"

 From just a project standpoint, the word 'Tiddly' is trying to focus on 
 the "small amount" of data or code that should be in any one unit. This 
 way 
 many units can be combined in various ways to satisfy different needs. 
 Although it is intended to produce a Wiki-like user interface with deep 
 linking and back references, the way you go about it is by breaking up 
 large pieces of information into re-usable components.

 If your goal is to create "tiddlers," then using a TiddlyWiki 
 application would be a natural fit. If the goal of most people is to make 
 small units of re-usable components, then perhaps a different prefix would 
 make it more appealing. Again, this is just a personal opinion and not a 
 slight on the TiddlyWiki project as a whole, which I have been using 
 frequently everyday.

 There have been two alternate words kicking around in my head lately. 
 TipWiki or DotWiki.

 'Tip' has a very similar double meaning to Tiddly - drunk people can be 
 'tiddly' or 'tipsy', and just the 'tip' of something or a 'tiddly' amount 
 of something is quite small. There is an additional English meaning of 
 'tip' to mean 'a small note or suggestion.' That seems to be actually the 
 point of TiddlyWiki: Make lots of small notes that can be re-combined as 
 pieces of many different larger pages. 'Tiddlers' would become 'Tips', and 
 a single 'tiddler' would become a single 'tip.' Phonetically, it feels a 
 lot easier to talk about.

 'Dot' has an inherent meaning of 'smallest possible mark or amount.' 
 This would again drive home the concept of making the smallest possible 
 content for any one unit of information. Unfortunately, dots are already 
 associated with the 'dot notation' of Object Oriented Programming, so that 
 could 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[HP]

Hi TiddlyTweeter 

> Just FYI, I tried many times on Twitter to get some interest in the fact 
our toot is a *rare example of a practical, working QUINE.* 
This doesnt matter fmpov. Why? Because the name itself 
(Quinely/Quinly/tiddler: Quines) is "cool". If they later find out what a 
quine is, the better. :)


On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 8:44:57 PM UTC+1 hww...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Mohammad!
>
> Sorry, but in my "quantum state" I had overlooked electron. :-).  ( Thanks 
> for the link. )
>
> Personally, I am quite happy with "TiddlyWiki", if only because ( like 
> Charlie ) I prefer to not change Jargon.
>
> If Size is a prime consideration, however, then I would enjoy Boson ( 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boson ).  Based on what little I know of 
> Theoretical Physics, I don't think there are likely to be any smaller 
> references within Jeremy's promised 25 year time-span.  I could be wrong, 
> of course, but I am unlikely to care since Kurzweil's singularity promise 
> seems to be running late.
>
> On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 11:29:17 AM UTC-5 Mohammad wrote:
>
>> Hi Hans!
>> But seriously we have such a name.
>>
>>
>>1. Electron a famous framework lets create desktop apps using web 
>>technology https://www.electronjs.org/
>>2. Atom is great text editor https://www.electronjs.org/apps/atom
>>3. Graviton a minimalistic code editor 
>>https://www.electronjs.org/apps/graviton-editor
>>
>>
>> Have a look at https://www.electronjs.org/apps supported by OpenJS and 
>> you find quark.
>>
>> Just kidding: I prefer Tiddlywiki over atomic related things ;-)
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Mohammad
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 6:50 PM Hans Wobbe  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm probably spending too much time trying to understand Quantum 
>>> computing, so AtomicCards suggests (to me) a possible wish to go a bit 
>>> deeper and at least use subAtomic element names.  Quark? Maybe even Boson  
>>> or Fermion?
>>>
>>> Happy New Year!
>>>
>>> Hans
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 9:14:09 AM UTC-5 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 AtomicCards™

 On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, at 2:14 AM, BurningTreeC wrote:

 I like the name "AtomCards"

 to add my two cents to the discussion :D

 positiv...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. Dezember 2020 um 07:14:43 
 UTC+1:

 I couldn't find if this topic has already been re-hashed this decade. 
 But I was wondering if there is any value in discussing alternative names 
 to the "Tiddly" part of the TiddlyWIki project. This project has been 
 around for so long that renaming / rebranding would be quite an effort. 
 And 
 the Tiddly part is unique within programming projects, which helps to 
 eliminate false positives when searching for sample code.

 I am an American living on the Pacific Coast, so my linguistic 
 preferences are definitely different from Jeremy's. But just saying the 
 word 'Tiddly' out loud feels like trying to get people from certain 
 Germany 
 dialects to say the word "Squirrel." It always feels forced to me.

 A joke by Lt. Commander Data on Star Trek the Next Generation was about 
 someone mispronouncing 'kidneys' as 'kiddleys.' We the store keeper 
 corrected him, the customer contested, "No, I said 'kiddleys.' Diddle I?"

 From just a project standpoint, the word 'Tiddly' is trying to focus on 
 the "small amount" of data or code that should be in any one unit. This 
 way 
 many units can be combined in various ways to satisfy different needs. 
 Although it is intended to produce a Wiki-like user interface with deep 
 linking and back references, the way you go about it is by breaking up 
 large pieces of information into re-usable components.

 If your goal is to create "tiddlers," then using a TiddlyWiki 
 application would be a natural fit. If the goal of most people is to make 
 small units of re-usable components, then perhaps a different prefix would 
 make it more appealing. Again, this is just a personal opinion and not a 
 slight on the TiddlyWiki project as a whole, which I have been using 
 frequently everyday.

 There have been two alternate words kicking around in my head lately. 
 TipWiki or DotWiki.

 'Tip' has a very similar double meaning to Tiddly - drunk people can be 
 'tiddly' or 'tipsy', and just the 'tip' of something or a 'tiddly' amount 
 of something is quite small. There is an additional English meaning of 
 'tip' to mean 'a small note or suggestion.' That seems to be actually the 
 point of TiddlyWiki: Make lots of small notes that can be re-combined as 
 pieces of many different larger pages. 'Tiddlers' would become 'Tips', and 
 a single 'tiddler' would become a single 'tip.' Phonetically, it feels a 
 lot easier to talk about.

 'Dot' has an inherent meaning of 'smallest possible mark or amount.' 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Hans Wobbe]

Hi Mohammad!

Sorry, but in my "quantum state" I had overlooked electron. :-).  ( Thanks 
for the link. )

Personally, I am quite happy with "TiddlyWiki", if only because ( like 
Charlie ) I prefer to not change Jargon.

If Size is a prime consideration, however, then I would enjoy Boson ( 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boson ).  Based on what little I know of 
Theoretical Physics, I don't think there are likely to be any smaller 
references within Jeremy's promised 25 year time-span.  I could be wrong, 
of course, but I am unlikely to care since Kurzweil's singularity promise 
seems to be running late.

On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 11:29:17 AM UTC-5 Mohammad wrote:

> Hi Hans!
> But seriously we have such a name.
>
>
>1. Electron a famous framework lets create desktop apps using web 
>technology https://www.electronjs.org/
>2. Atom is great text editor https://www.electronjs.org/apps/atom
>3. Graviton a minimalistic code editor 
>https://www.electronjs.org/apps/graviton-editor
>
>
> Have a look at https://www.electronjs.org/apps supported by OpenJS and 
> you find quark.
>
> Just kidding: I prefer Tiddlywiki over atomic related things ;-)
>
> Best wishes
> Mohammad
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 6:50 PM Hans Wobbe  wrote:
>
>> I'm probably spending too much time trying to understand Quantum 
>> computing, so AtomicCards suggests (to me) a possible wish to go a bit 
>> deeper and at least use subAtomic element names.  Quark? Maybe even Boson  
>> or Fermion?
>>
>> Happy New Year!
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 9:14:09 AM UTC-5 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> AtomicCards™
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, at 2:14 AM, BurningTreeC wrote:
>>>
>>> I like the name "AtomCards"
>>>
>>> to add my two cents to the discussion :D
>>>
>>> positiv...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. Dezember 2020 um 07:14:43 
>>> UTC+1:
>>>
>>> I couldn't find if this topic has already been re-hashed this decade. 
>>> But I was wondering if there is any value in discussing alternative names 
>>> to the "Tiddly" part of the TiddlyWIki project. This project has been 
>>> around for so long that renaming / rebranding would be quite an effort. And 
>>> the Tiddly part is unique within programming projects, which helps to 
>>> eliminate false positives when searching for sample code.
>>>
>>> I am an American living on the Pacific Coast, so my linguistic 
>>> preferences are definitely different from Jeremy's. But just saying the 
>>> word 'Tiddly' out loud feels like trying to get people from certain Germany 
>>> dialects to say the word "Squirrel." It always feels forced to me.
>>>
>>> A joke by Lt. Commander Data on Star Trek the Next Generation was about 
>>> someone mispronouncing 'kidneys' as 'kiddleys.' We the store keeper 
>>> corrected him, the customer contested, "No, I said 'kiddleys.' Diddle I?"
>>>
>>> From just a project standpoint, the word 'Tiddly' is trying to focus on 
>>> the "small amount" of data or code that should be in any one unit. This way 
>>> many units can be combined in various ways to satisfy different needs. 
>>> Although it is intended to produce a Wiki-like user interface with deep 
>>> linking and back references, the way you go about it is by breaking up 
>>> large pieces of information into re-usable components.
>>>
>>> If your goal is to create "tiddlers," then using a TiddlyWiki 
>>> application would be a natural fit. If the goal of most people is to make 
>>> small units of re-usable components, then perhaps a different prefix would 
>>> make it more appealing. Again, this is just a personal opinion and not a 
>>> slight on the TiddlyWiki project as a whole, which I have been using 
>>> frequently everyday.
>>>
>>> There have been two alternate words kicking around in my head lately. 
>>> TipWiki or DotWiki.
>>>
>>> 'Tip' has a very similar double meaning to Tiddly - drunk people can be 
>>> 'tiddly' or 'tipsy', and just the 'tip' of something or a 'tiddly' amount 
>>> of something is quite small. There is an additional English meaning of 
>>> 'tip' to mean 'a small note or suggestion.' That seems to be actually the 
>>> point of TiddlyWiki: Make lots of small notes that can be re-combined as 
>>> pieces of many different larger pages. 'Tiddlers' would become 'Tips', and 
>>> a single 'tiddler' would become a single 'tip.' Phonetically, it feels a 
>>> lot easier to talk about.
>>>
>>> 'Dot' has an inherent meaning of 'smallest possible mark or amount.' 
>>> This would again drive home the concept of making the smallest possible 
>>> content for any one unit of information. Unfortunately, dots are already 
>>> associated with the 'dot notation' of Object Oriented Programming, so that 
>>> could make it a little confusing as to the overall goal for people with 
>>> software development backgrounds.
>>>
>>> The goal of renaming the project would be to push the desire for 
>>> "smallness" of the individual unit using a more standard English word. 
>>> Please forgive me 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Hi Hans!
But seriously we have such a name.


   1. Electron a famous framework lets create desktop apps using web
   technology https://www.electronjs.org/
   2. Atom is great text editor https://www.electronjs.org/apps/atom
   3. Graviton a minimalistic code editor
   https://www.electronjs.org/apps/graviton-editor


Have a look at https://www.electronjs.org/apps supported by OpenJS and you
find quark.

Just kidding: I prefer Tiddlywiki over atomic related things ;-)

Best wishes
Mohammad


On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 6:50 PM Hans Wobbe  wrote:

> I'm probably spending too much time trying to understand Quantum
> computing, so AtomicCards suggests (to me) a possible wish to go a bit
> deeper and at least use subAtomic element names.  Quark? Maybe even Boson
> or Fermion?
>
> Happy New Year!
>
> Hans
>
> On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 9:14:09 AM UTC-5 dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> AtomicCards™
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, at 2:14 AM, BurningTreeC wrote:
>>
>> I like the name "AtomCards"
>>
>> to add my two cents to the discussion :D
>>
>> positiv...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. Dezember 2020 um 07:14:43
>> UTC+1:
>>
>> I couldn't find if this topic has already been re-hashed this decade. But
>> I was wondering if there is any value in discussing alternative names to
>> the "Tiddly" part of the TiddlyWIki project. This project has been around
>> for so long that renaming / rebranding would be quite an effort. And the
>> Tiddly part is unique within programming projects, which helps to eliminate
>> false positives when searching for sample code.
>>
>> I am an American living on the Pacific Coast, so my linguistic
>> preferences are definitely different from Jeremy's. But just saying the
>> word 'Tiddly' out loud feels like trying to get people from certain Germany
>> dialects to say the word "Squirrel." It always feels forced to me.
>>
>> A joke by Lt. Commander Data on Star Trek the Next Generation was about
>> someone mispronouncing 'kidneys' as 'kiddleys.' We the store keeper
>> corrected him, the customer contested, "No, I said 'kiddleys.' Diddle I?"
>>
>> From just a project standpoint, the word 'Tiddly' is trying to focus on
>> the "small amount" of data or code that should be in any one unit. This way
>> many units can be combined in various ways to satisfy different needs.
>> Although it is intended to produce a Wiki-like user interface with deep
>> linking and back references, the way you go about it is by breaking up
>> large pieces of information into re-usable components.
>>
>> If your goal is to create "tiddlers," then using a TiddlyWiki application
>> would be a natural fit. If the goal of most people is to make small units
>> of re-usable components, then perhaps a different prefix would make it more
>> appealing. Again, this is just a personal opinion and not a slight on the
>> TiddlyWiki project as a whole, which I have been using frequently everyday.
>>
>> There have been two alternate words kicking around in my head lately.
>> TipWiki or DotWiki.
>>
>> 'Tip' has a very similar double meaning to Tiddly - drunk people can be
>> 'tiddly' or 'tipsy', and just the 'tip' of something or a 'tiddly' amount
>> of something is quite small. There is an additional English meaning of
>> 'tip' to mean 'a small note or suggestion.' That seems to be actually the
>> point of TiddlyWiki: Make lots of small notes that can be re-combined as
>> pieces of many different larger pages. 'Tiddlers' would become 'Tips', and
>> a single 'tiddler' would become a single 'tip.' Phonetically, it feels a
>> lot easier to talk about.
>>
>> 'Dot' has an inherent meaning of 'smallest possible mark or amount.' This
>> would again drive home the concept of making the smallest possible content
>> for any one unit of information. Unfortunately, dots are already associated
>> with the 'dot notation' of Object Oriented Programming, so that could make
>> it a little confusing as to the overall goal for people with software
>> development backgrounds.
>>
>> The goal of renaming the project would be to push the desire for
>> "smallness" of the individual unit using a more standard English word.
>> Please forgive me if I am pushing anyone's buttons here. This topic was
>> just on my mind. Thank you for your time.
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/ZVHqfQWr2uM/unsubscribe.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
>> tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/b072f8ff-973a-4349-bcff-8e9d10fcebfen%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Charlie Veniot]

If you don't mind, I'd like to ditto that and adorn with a "why I ditto(?)"

To me, the words "card" and "record" have semantic meanings to me that 
don't quite fit the semantic meaning of "tiddler".

Well, the semantic meaning I've attached to "tiddler" is, to me,  much 
broader/flexible than card or record.

To me, a "tiddler" is an information component, as per knowledge 
componentization 

 
(which I prefer call "information/knowledge/content componentization".)

Whatever "language" a tool uses, I happily adopt that language.  Once that 
language is ingrained, I do tend to get annoyed at the change in language 
and having to rejig my mindset.   So I stubbornly tend to keep using the 
old language because I've become attached to it and visualize/understand 
everything in this terms.  Well, until I get used to the new language. 
(That said: I still call my Seagull "M4" a Seagull "Merlin" as per original 
name many years after the name change, because "M4" to me sucks.)

Regardless, I am wildly enjoying this discussion about name/jargon, because 
of all the awesome intertwingled insights.

Cheers and thank-you all for yer thoughts !


>> Well. Not sure. I still prefer Tiddler as FRAGMENT. A bit more. 
>>
>> Why? The problem with "Record" and "Card" is both imply 
>> self-contained-wholeness. Basically echoing database structural units.
>>
>> I'd need convincing our "Atomic Units" should be conceptualized that way. 
>> That is NOT how I experience the "fragment" in TW/XEMEMEX.
>>
>> It is actually NOT so self-contained or self-substituent.
>>
>> Just thoughts
>> TT
>>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Hans Wobbe]

I'm probably spending too much time trying to understand Quantum computing, 
so AtomicCards suggests (to me) a possible wish to go a bit deeper and at 
least use subAtomic element names.  Quark? Maybe even Boson  or Fermion?

Happy New Year!

Hans

On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 9:14:09 AM UTC-5 dix...@gmail.com wrote:

> AtomicCards™
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, at 2:14 AM, BurningTreeC wrote:
>
> I like the name "AtomCards"
>
> to add my two cents to the discussion :D
>
> positiv...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. Dezember 2020 um 07:14:43 
> UTC+1:
>
> I couldn't find if this topic has already been re-hashed this decade. But 
> I was wondering if there is any value in discussing alternative names to 
> the "Tiddly" part of the TiddlyWIki project. This project has been around 
> for so long that renaming / rebranding would be quite an effort. And the 
> Tiddly part is unique within programming projects, which helps to eliminate 
> false positives when searching for sample code.
>
> I am an American living on the Pacific Coast, so my linguistic preferences 
> are definitely different from Jeremy's. But just saying the word 'Tiddly' 
> out loud feels like trying to get people from certain Germany dialects to 
> say the word "Squirrel." It always feels forced to me.
>
> A joke by Lt. Commander Data on Star Trek the Next Generation was about 
> someone mispronouncing 'kidneys' as 'kiddleys.' We the store keeper 
> corrected him, the customer contested, "No, I said 'kiddleys.' Diddle I?"
>
> From just a project standpoint, the word 'Tiddly' is trying to focus on 
> the "small amount" of data or code that should be in any one unit. This way 
> many units can be combined in various ways to satisfy different needs. 
> Although it is intended to produce a Wiki-like user interface with deep 
> linking and back references, the way you go about it is by breaking up 
> large pieces of information into re-usable components.
>
> If your goal is to create "tiddlers," then using a TiddlyWiki application 
> would be a natural fit. If the goal of most people is to make small units 
> of re-usable components, then perhaps a different prefix would make it more 
> appealing. Again, this is just a personal opinion and not a slight on the 
> TiddlyWiki project as a whole, which I have been using frequently everyday.
>
> There have been two alternate words kicking around in my head lately. 
> TipWiki or DotWiki.
>
> 'Tip' has a very similar double meaning to Tiddly - drunk people can be 
> 'tiddly' or 'tipsy', and just the 'tip' of something or a 'tiddly' amount 
> of something is quite small. There is an additional English meaning of 
> 'tip' to mean 'a small note or suggestion.' That seems to be actually the 
> point of TiddlyWiki: Make lots of small notes that can be re-combined as 
> pieces of many different larger pages. 'Tiddlers' would become 'Tips', and 
> a single 'tiddler' would become a single 'tip.' Phonetically, it feels a 
> lot easier to talk about.
>
> 'Dot' has an inherent meaning of 'smallest possible mark or amount.' This 
> would again drive home the concept of making the smallest possible content 
> for any one unit of information. Unfortunately, dots are already associated 
> with the 'dot notation' of Object Oriented Programming, so that could make 
> it a little confusing as to the overall goal for people with software 
> development backgrounds.
>
> The goal of renaming the project would be to push the desire for 
> "smallness" of the individual unit using a more standard English word. 
> Please forgive me if I am pushing anyone's buttons here. This topic was 
> just on my mind. Thank you for your time.
>
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
> Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/ZVHqfQWr2uM/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/b072f8ff-973a-4349-bcff-8e9d10fcebfen%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Glenn Dixon]

AtomicCards™

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, at 2:14 AM, BurningTreeC wrote:
> I like the name "AtomCards"
> 
> to add my two cents to the discussion :D
> 
> positiv...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. Dezember 2020 um 07:14:43 UTC+1:
>> I couldn't find if this topic has already been re-hashed this decade. But I 
>> was wondering if there is any value in discussing alternative names to the 
>> "Tiddly" part of the TiddlyWIki project. This project has been around for so 
>> long that renaming / rebranding would be quite an effort. And the Tiddly 
>> part is unique within programming projects, which helps to eliminate false 
>> positives when searching for sample code.
>> 
>> I am an American living on the Pacific Coast, so my linguistic preferences 
>> are definitely different from Jeremy's. But just saying the word 'Tiddly' 
>> out loud feels like trying to get people from certain Germany dialects to 
>> say the word "Squirrel." It always feels forced to me.
>> 
>> A joke by Lt. Commander Data on Star Trek the Next Generation was about 
>> someone mispronouncing 'kidneys' as 'kiddleys.' We the store keeper 
>> corrected him, the customer contested, "No, I said 'kiddleys.' Diddle I?"
>> 
>> From just a project standpoint, the word 'Tiddly' is trying to focus on the 
>> "small amount" of data or code that should be in any one unit. This way many 
>> units can be combined in various ways to satisfy different needs. Although 
>> it is intended to produce a Wiki-like user interface with deep linking and 
>> back references, the way you go about it is by breaking up large pieces of 
>> information into re-usable components.
>> 
>> If your goal is to create "tiddlers," then using a TiddlyWiki application 
>> would be a natural fit. If the goal of most people is to make small units of 
>> re-usable components, then perhaps a different prefix would make it more 
>> appealing. Again, this is just a personal opinion and not a slight on the 
>> TiddlyWiki project as a whole, which I have been using frequently everyday.
>> 
>> There have been two alternate words kicking around in my head lately. 
>> TipWiki or DotWiki.
>> 
>> 'Tip' has a very similar double meaning to Tiddly - drunk people can be 
>> 'tiddly' or 'tipsy', and just the 'tip' of something or a 'tiddly' amount of 
>> something is quite small. There is an additional English meaning of 'tip' to 
>> mean 'a small note or suggestion.' That seems to be actually the point of 
>> TiddlyWiki: Make lots of small notes that can be re-combined as pieces of 
>> many different larger pages. 'Tiddlers' would become 'Tips', and a single 
>> 'tiddler' would become a single 'tip.' Phonetically, it feels a lot easier 
>> to talk about.
>> 
>> 'Dot' has an inherent meaning of 'smallest possible mark or amount.' This 
>> would again drive home the concept of making the smallest possible content 
>> for any one unit of information. Unfortunately, dots are already associated 
>> with the 'dot notation' of Object Oriented Programming, so that could make 
>> it a little confusing as to the overall goal for people with software 
>> development backgrounds.
>> 
>> The goal of renaming the project would be to push the desire for "smallness" 
>> of the individual unit using a more standard English word. Please forgive me 
>> if I am pushing anyone's buttons here. This topic was just on my mind. Thank 
>> you for your time.
> 

> -- 
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> Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
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>  
> .

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Álvaro]

Hi community! Happy new year!

I think that we are all clear that TW has a basic unit, the tiddler. We can 
build our TW with them. We can rename them as *card *, *record*, ..., and 
then we can rename the project.
For example, with tiddler rename as *tile* we can rename TW as *kaleido* or 
*mosaic*. But then we lose the term of tiddler, the most reconocible part 
of Tiddlywiki.

Maybe we can rethink about the conexión between our least element (tiddler) 
and the whole (Tiddlywiki). A shoal is made up of many fish. Is *Shoal *good 
name? It sound good to me, but i'm not a English-speaking/anglophone.
El sábado, 2 de enero de 2021 a las 11:05:22 UTC+1, TiddlyTweeter escribió:

> Regarding ideas of CARD or RECORD or variants thereof like "AtomCards" 
> (i.e. that emphasise the atomistic nature of the "unit").
>
> Well. Not sure. I still prefer Tiddler as FRAGMENT. A bit more. 
>
> Why? The problem with "Record" and "Card" is both imply 
> self-contained-wholeness. Basically echoing database structural units.
>
> I'd need convincing our "Atomic Units" should be conceptualized that way. 
> That is NOT how I experience the "fragment" in TW/XEMEMEX.
>
> It is actually NOT so self-contained or self-substituent.
>
> Just thoughts
> TT
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[TiddlyTweeter]

Regarding ideas of CARD or RECORD or variants thereof like "AtomCards" 
(i.e. that emphasise the atomistic nature of the "unit").

Well. Not sure. I still prefer Tiddler as FRAGMENT. A bit more. 

Why? The problem with "Record" and "Card" is both imply 
self-contained-wholeness. Basically echoing database structural units.

I'd need convincing our "Atomic Units" should be conceptualized that way. 
That is NOT how I experience the "fragment" in TW/XEMEMEX.

It is actually NOT so self-contained or self-substituent.

Just thoughts
TT

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad wrote:

>  Tiddlywiki, is a *development studio* which has a high level 
> scripting language with many components (official /third party) to build 
> different apps/tools based
> on the web technology (HTML5+JS+CSS). Examples are: TiddlyResearch, 
> TiddlyShow, Projectify, ...
>

Ciao Mohammad

You echo what I wrote before. There are two aspects on naming. A main name 
for the "*development tool" *that is THE MAKER and a subsidiary naming 
system for the MADE APPS. 

I think there is a differentiation needed to aid decent naming that will 
better carry us forward.

Overall I still feel that XEMEX/XEMEMEX type name scope is pretty good for 
"The Maker."

In a way the OP I don't think really got the issue ... which, I think, is 
very much about naming THE MAKER, AND also aiding, supporting, naming of 
actual dedicated APPS MAKE.

My latest 2 cents.
TT
 

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[TiddlyTweeter]

HP et al ...

Just FYI, I tried many times on Twitter to get some interest in the fact 
our toot is a *rare example of a practical, working QUINE.*
I was replying mainly to developers. I thought it would be of real 
interest. 

BUT, actually, the response was flat.

The "Quine" nature of our tool is really pronounced and central. BUT, as 
far as I can see, that doesn't light anyone's candle but mine and a very 
few others.

Best wishes
TT

On Friday, 1 January 2021 at 12:54:43 UTC+1 HP wrote:

> "quines" - could refer to tiddlers as well fmpov. 
>
> On Friday, January 1, 2021 at 12:53:17 PM UTC+1 HP wrote:
>
>> Quinly - sounds friendly as well...
>>
>> On Thursday, December 31, 2020 at 9:49:02 PM UTC+1 clutterstack wrote:
>>
>>> memexr? I'll see myself out...
>>>
>>> But seriously, I'm more excited about the idea of a new version more 
>>> comfortable in its bones with all the things TW can do. Sounds like an 
>>> awful lot of work, though. Fun though! But that's my perennial personal 
>>> trap.
>>>
>>> I also think Charlie's point below is notable, perhaps more for a 
>>> conversation on adoption than on architecting or naming. TiddlyWiki is a 
>>> solution all by itself; I have a TW that's been in constant use since 2005, 
>>> and it has some customisation in it (most tweaks and plugins were wiped out 
>>> when I migrated to TW5), but in general it's a notebook that I shove info 
>>> into and that has a search bar. But there's huge untapped (or unpublicised) 
>>> potential in the TW with constraints added, presented neatly, for a focused 
>>> purpose.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 9:13:16 AM UTC-5 Charlie Veniot wrote:
>>>

 To me, I wouldn't try convincing folk of using "TiddlyWiki" as a 
 solution to a problem.  TiddlyWiki is the platform with which I would 
 build 
 the solution.  The name I then give to the solution is what I use.  The 
 name is different for every solution.



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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

> It would be interesting if people posted their approximate geographical 
> location, where they grew up, and what the word "tiddler" suggests to them.


Purely for your interest ... I grew up in the UK in Leicestershire always 
next to rivers or canals, or living on boats, for the first decade of my 
life. 

"TIDDLERS", the fish shoals, were everywhere. They like "shallows" ... the 
edges of waterways---or spill pools near wiers. I had intimate knowledge of 
them decades before Tiddlywiki. You dangled the infant hand in waterway 
edges and they would come swirl around.

TT 

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Mohammad Rahmani]

@clutterstack


On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 12:19 AM clutterstack  wrote:

> memexr? I'll see myself out...
>
> But seriously, I'm more excited about the idea of a new version more
> comfortable in its bones with all the things TW can do. Sounds like an
> awful lot of work, though. Fun though! But that's my perennial personal
> trap.
>
> I also think Charlie's point below is notable, perhaps more for a
> conversation on adoption than on architecting or naming. TiddlyWiki is a
> solution all by itself; I have a TW that's been in constant use since 2005,
> and it has some customisation in it (most tweaks and plugins were wiped out
> when I migrated to TW5), but in general it's a notebook that I shove info
> into and that has a search bar. But there's huge untapped (or unpublicised)
> potential in the TW with constraints added, presented neatly, for a focused
> purpose.
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 9:13:16 AM UTC-5 Charlie Veniot wrote:
>
>>
>> To me, I wouldn't try convincing folk of using "TiddlyWiki" as a solution
>> to a problem.  TiddlyWiki is the platform with which I would build the
>> solution.  The name I then give to the solution is what I use.  The name is
>> different for every solution.
>>
>
That is why Tiddlywiki is not a wiki and more importantly it is not a note
taking tool by itself. But a powerful note taking app can be developed
using Tiddlywiki.
So, Tiddlywiki, is a *development studio* which has a high level scripting
language with many components (official /third party) to build different
apps/tools based
on the web technology (HTML5+JS+CSS). Examples are: TiddlyResearch,
TiddlyShow, Projectify, ...




>
>> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[HP]

"quines" - could refer to tiddlers as well fmpov. 

On Friday, January 1, 2021 at 12:53:17 PM UTC+1 HP wrote:

> Quinly - sounds friendly as well...
>
> On Thursday, December 31, 2020 at 9:49:02 PM UTC+1 clutterstack wrote:
>
>> memexr? I'll see myself out...
>>
>> But seriously, I'm more excited about the idea of a new version more 
>> comfortable in its bones with all the things TW can do. Sounds like an 
>> awful lot of work, though. Fun though! But that's my perennial personal 
>> trap.
>>
>> I also think Charlie's point below is notable, perhaps more for a 
>> conversation on adoption than on architecting or naming. TiddlyWiki is a 
>> solution all by itself; I have a TW that's been in constant use since 2005, 
>> and it has some customisation in it (most tweaks and plugins were wiped out 
>> when I migrated to TW5), but in general it's a notebook that I shove info 
>> into and that has a search bar. But there's huge untapped (or unpublicised) 
>> potential in the TW with constraints added, presented neatly, for a focused 
>> purpose.
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 9:13:16 AM UTC-5 Charlie Veniot wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> To me, I wouldn't try convincing folk of using "TiddlyWiki" as a 
>>> solution to a problem.  TiddlyWiki is the platform with which I would build 
>>> the solution.  The name I then give to the solution is what I use.  The 
>>> name is different for every solution.
>>>
>>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[HP]

Quinly - sounds friendly as well...

On Thursday, December 31, 2020 at 9:49:02 PM UTC+1 clutterstack wrote:

> memexr? I'll see myself out...
>
> But seriously, I'm more excited about the idea of a new version more 
> comfortable in its bones with all the things TW can do. Sounds like an 
> awful lot of work, though. Fun though! But that's my perennial personal 
> trap.
>
> I also think Charlie's point below is notable, perhaps more for a 
> conversation on adoption than on architecting or naming. TiddlyWiki is a 
> solution all by itself; I have a TW that's been in constant use since 2005, 
> and it has some customisation in it (most tweaks and plugins were wiped out 
> when I migrated to TW5), but in general it's a notebook that I shove info 
> into and that has a search bar. But there's huge untapped (or unpublicised) 
> potential in the TW with constraints added, presented neatly, for a focused 
> purpose.
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 9:13:16 AM UTC-5 Charlie Veniot wrote:
>
>>
>> To me, I wouldn't try convincing folk of using "TiddlyWiki" as a solution 
>> to a problem.  TiddlyWiki is the platform with which I would build the 
>> solution.  The name I then give to the solution is what I use.  The name is 
>> different for every solution.
>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[clutterstack]

memexr? I'll see myself out...

But seriously, I'm more excited about the idea of a new version more 
comfortable in its bones with all the things TW can do. Sounds like an 
awful lot of work, though. Fun though! But that's my perennial personal 
trap.

I also think Charlie's point below is notable, perhaps more for a 
conversation on adoption than on architecting or naming. TiddlyWiki is a 
solution all by itself; I have a TW that's been in constant use since 2005, 
and it has some customisation in it (most tweaks and plugins were wiped out 
when I migrated to TW5), but in general it's a notebook that I shove info 
into and that has a search bar. But there's huge untapped (or unpublicised) 
potential in the TW with constraints added, presented neatly, for a focused 
purpose.

On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 9:13:16 AM UTC-5 Charlie Veniot wrote:

>
> To me, I wouldn't try convincing folk of using "TiddlyWiki" as a solution 
> to a problem.  TiddlyWiki is the platform with which I would build the 
> solution.  The name I then give to the solution is what I use.  The name is 
> different for every solution.
>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Ste]

@Mark S
Quite quintessential?! 

On Thursday, 31 December 2020 at 19:43:47 UTC Mark S. wrote:

> Quinessence
>
> On Thursday, December 31, 2020 at 9:50:32 AM UTC-8 HP wrote:
>
>> I chip in: Quinely
>>
>> No software found with this name. 
>>
>> On Thursday, December 31, 2020 at 6:24:59 PM UTC+1 taale...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So, what if we create a place other than here (n Tiddlywiki.com?) for 
>>> possible names, so we have somewhere to brainstorm without bogging down the 
>>> list?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 10:02 AM PMario  wrote:
>>>
 Hi, 
 At first I thought xememex is complicated, but then I thought about it. 
 I did play a little bit with it. 

 As wikipedia tells us: memex is a hypthetical thing 
 , It may come from "memory ex
 tension",
 Quote: "The memex would provide an "enlarged intimate supplement to 
 one's memory"." ... I think that's just a different description for 
 TW. 

 xememex could be the "Next electronical memory extension". As Jeremy 
 told us, this name has an interesting "feature". We can read it forward 
 and 
 backward. 

 xememex .. or ..  xememexnice! right? 

 We nickname TiddlyWiki with TW or TW5  

 We can nickname xememex as meX ... Which for me would be: me eXtended .(I 
 do like this one ;) 

 *Conclusion for me:*

 Tiddlers can be renamed to: Cards 

 xememex.com can be the organisation

 "xememex ToolBox" can be the product. ... Short: meX 

 and xememex can be a "word mark" / logo ... IMO if the first 2 letters 
 are greyed out a little bit, it's much easier to read.  

 Just my 2 cents about the name. 

 -mario

 -- 

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 Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
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 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/67c35322-cb19-48f4-abbe-df09922683ffn%40googlegroups.com
  
 
 .

>>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Quinessence

On Thursday, December 31, 2020 at 9:50:32 AM UTC-8 HP wrote:

> I chip in: Quinely
>
> No software found with this name. 
>
> On Thursday, December 31, 2020 at 6:24:59 PM UTC+1 taale...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> So, what if we create a place other than here (n Tiddlywiki.com?) for 
>> possible names, so we have somewhere to brainstorm without bogging down the 
>> list?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 10:02 AM PMario  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, 
>>> At first I thought xememex is complicated, but then I thought about it. 
>>> I did play a little bit with it. 
>>>
>>> As wikipedia tells us: memex is a hypthetical thing 
>>> , It may come from "memory ex
>>> tension",
>>> Quote: "The memex would provide an "enlarged intimate supplement to 
>>> one's memory"." ... I think that's just a different description for TW. 
>>>
>>> xememex could be the "Next electronical memory extension". As Jeremy 
>>> told us, this name has an interesting "feature". We can read it forward and 
>>> backward. 
>>>
>>> xememex .. or ..  xememexnice! right? 
>>>
>>> We nickname TiddlyWiki with TW or TW5  
>>>
>>> We can nickname xememex as meX ... Which for me would be: me eXtended .(I 
>>> do like this one ;) 
>>>
>>> *Conclusion for me:*
>>>
>>> Tiddlers can be renamed to: Cards 
>>>
>>> xememex.com can be the organisation
>>>
>>> "xememex ToolBox" can be the product. ... Short: meX 
>>>
>>> and xememex can be a "word mark" / logo ... IMO if the first 2 letters 
>>> are greyed out a little bit, it's much easier to read.  
>>>
>>> Just my 2 cents about the name. 
>>>
>>> -mario
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "TiddlyWiki" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/67c35322-cb19-48f4-abbe-df09922683ffn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Ste]

I think I'm with a gentle drift away from the tiddly to TWsomething. It 
could just become the initials... Kentucky Fried Chicken is now just KFC. 
TWP could be Tiddly Wiki Platform.. Total Wiki.. Transformational Word 
Producer... 
As others have said.. I don't think the name is the biggest hurdle.. But 
'What do I do with this thing and how do I do it?' might be... 

On Thursday, 31 December 2020 at 17:54:50 UTC coda coder wrote:

> Meant to add...
>
> Cards? Hypercard used cards... and how old is that? Predates the web by 
> almost 10 years. 
>
> @Jeremy I appreciate your point about the conversation inevitably reducing 
> to name--offerings, but the deeper, more fundamental and technical stuff 
> should happen "in another place", surely?
>
> On Thursday, December 31, 2020 at 11:24:59 AM UTC-6 taale...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> So, what if we create a place other than here (n Tiddlywiki.com?) for 
>> possible names, so we have somewhere to brainstorm without bogging down the 
>> list?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 10:02 AM PMario  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, 
>>> At first I thought xememex is complicated, but then I thought about it. 
>>> I did play a little bit with it. 
>>>
>>> As wikipedia tells us: memex is a hypthetical thing 
>>> , It may come from "memory ex
>>> tension",
>>> Quote: "The memex would provide an "enlarged intimate supplement to 
>>> one's memory"." ... I think that's just a different description for TW. 
>>>
>>> xememex could be the "Next electronical memory extension". As Jeremy 
>>> told us, this name has an interesting "feature". We can read it forward and 
>>> backward. 
>>>
>>> xememex .. or ..  xememexnice! right? 
>>>
>>> We nickname TiddlyWiki with TW or TW5  
>>>
>>> We can nickname xememex as meX ... Which for me would be: me eXtended .(I 
>>> do like this one ;) 
>>>
>>> *Conclusion for me:*
>>>
>>> Tiddlers can be renamed to: Cards 
>>>
>>> xememex.com can be the organisation
>>>
>>> "xememex ToolBox" can be the product. ... Short: meX 
>>>
>>> and xememex can be a "word mark" / logo ... IMO if the first 2 letters 
>>> are greyed out a little bit, it's much easier to read.  
>>>
>>> Just my 2 cents about the name. 
>>>
>>> -mario
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "TiddlyWiki" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/67c35322-cb19-48f4-abbe-df09922683ffn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[coda coder]

Meant to add...

Cards? Hypercard used cards... and how old is that? Predates the web by 
almost 10 years. 

@Jeremy I appreciate your point about the conversation inevitably reducing 
to name--offerings, but the deeper, more fundamental and technical stuff 
should happen "in another place", surely?

On Thursday, December 31, 2020 at 11:24:59 AM UTC-6 taale...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> So, what if we create a place other than here (n Tiddlywiki.com?) for 
> possible names, so we have somewhere to brainstorm without bogging down the 
> list?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 10:02 AM PMario  wrote:
>
>> Hi, 
>> At first I thought xememex is complicated, but then I thought about it. I 
>> did play a little bit with it. 
>>
>> As wikipedia tells us: memex is a hypthetical thing 
>> , It may come from "memory ex
>> tension",
>> Quote: "The memex would provide an "enlarged intimate supplement to 
>> one's memory"." ... I think that's just a different description for TW. 
>>
>> xememex could be the "Next electronical memory extension". As Jeremy 
>> told us, this name has an interesting "feature". We can read it forward and 
>> backward. 
>>
>> xememex .. or ..  xememexnice! right? 
>>
>> We nickname TiddlyWiki with TW or TW5  
>>
>> We can nickname xememex as meX ... Which for me would be: me eXtended .(I 
>> do like this one ;) 
>>
>> *Conclusion for me:*
>>
>> Tiddlers can be renamed to: Cards 
>>
>> xememex.com can be the organisation
>>
>> "xememex ToolBox" can be the product. ... Short: meX 
>>
>> and xememex can be a "word mark" / logo ... IMO if the first 2 letters 
>> are greyed out a little bit, it's much easier to read.  
>>
>> Just my 2 cents about the name. 
>>
>> -mario
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "TiddlyWiki" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/67c35322-cb19-48f4-abbe-df09922683ffn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[HP]

I chip in: Quinely

No software found with this name. 

On Thursday, December 31, 2020 at 6:24:59 PM UTC+1 taale...@gmail.com wrote:

> So, what if we create a place other than here (n Tiddlywiki.com?) for 
> possible names, so we have somewhere to brainstorm without bogging down the 
> list?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 10:02 AM PMario  wrote:
>
>> Hi, 
>> At first I thought xememex is complicated, but then I thought about it. I 
>> did play a little bit with it. 
>>
>> As wikipedia tells us: memex is a hypthetical thing 
>> , It may come from "memory ex
>> tension",
>> Quote: "The memex would provide an "enlarged intimate supplement to 
>> one's memory"." ... I think that's just a different description for TW. 
>>
>> xememex could be the "Next electronical memory extension". As Jeremy 
>> told us, this name has an interesting "feature". We can read it forward and 
>> backward. 
>>
>> xememex .. or ..  xememexnice! right? 
>>
>> We nickname TiddlyWiki with TW or TW5  
>>
>> We can nickname xememex as meX ... Which for me would be: me eXtended .(I 
>> do like this one ;) 
>>
>> *Conclusion for me:*
>>
>> Tiddlers can be renamed to: Cards 
>>
>> xememex.com can be the organisation
>>
>> "xememex ToolBox" can be the product. ... Short: meX 
>>
>> and xememex can be a "word mark" / logo ... IMO if the first 2 letters 
>> are greyed out a little bit, it's much easier to read.  
>>
>> Just my 2 cents about the name. 
>>
>> -mario
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Aidan Grey]

So, what if we create a place other than here (n Tiddlywiki.com?) for
possible names, so we have somewhere to brainstorm without bogging down the
list?



On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 10:02 AM PMario  wrote:

> Hi,
> At first I thought xememex is complicated, but then I thought about it. I
> did play a little bit with it.
>
> As wikipedia tells us: memex is a hypthetical thing
> , It may come from "memory ex
> tension",
> Quote: "The memex would provide an "enlarged intimate supplement to one's
> memory"." ... I think that's just a different description for TW.
>
> xememex could be the "Next electronical memory extension". As Jeremy told
> us, this name has an interesting "feature". We can read it forward and
> backward.
>
> xememex .. or ..  xememexnice! right?
>
> We nickname TiddlyWiki with TW or TW5 
>
> We can nickname xememex as meX ... Which for me would be: me eXtended .(I
> do like this one ;)
>
> *Conclusion for me:*
>
> Tiddlers can be renamed to: Cards
>
> xememex.com can be the organisation
>
> "xememex ToolBox" can be the product. ... Short: meX
>
> and xememex can be a "word mark" / logo ... IMO if the first 2 letters
> are greyed out a little bit, it's much easier to read.
>
> Just my 2 cents about the name.
>
> -mario
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[PMario]

Hi, 
At first I thought xememex is complicated, but then I thought about it. I 
did play a little bit with it. 

As wikipedia tells us: memex is a hypthetical thing 
, It may come from "memory extension",
Quote: "The memex would provide an "enlarged intimate supplement to one's 
memory"." ... I think that's just a different description for TW. 

xememex could be the "Next electronical memory extension". As Jeremy told 
us, this name has an interesting "feature". We can read it forward and 
backward. 

xememex .. or ..  xememexnice! right? 

We nickname TiddlyWiki with TW or TW5  

We can nickname xememex as meX ... Which for me would be: me eXtended .(I 
do like this one ;) 

*Conclusion for me:*

Tiddlers can be renamed to: Cards 

xememex.com can be the organisation

"xememex ToolBox" can be the product. ... Short: meX 

and xememex can be a "word mark" / logo ... IMO if the first 2 letters are 
greyed out a little bit, it's much easier to read.  

Just my 2 cents about the name. 

-mario

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[tony]

Yet another kibble...

I like that TiddlyWiki has user choice configuration in 
$:/language/DefaultNewTiddlerTitle renaming to new 
dot/tip/card/memex/

Thankfully, there is little cognitive effort to understand that my new pet 
name for wiki entries is just a tiddler in TiddlyWiki. 

TiddlyWiki and tiddler are unique names, 16 years and running. Gosh, 
tiddler is even famous enough to be in the popular 
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiddlyWiki#Tiddlers

I like what Charlie said here: "To me, I wouldn't try convincing folk of 
using "TiddlyWiki" as a solution to a problem.  TiddlyWiki is the platform 
with which I would build the solution.  The name I then give to the 
solution is what I use.  The name is different for every solution."

Why change now? Even kids wanna fork vim use vim in the NeoVim name? What's 
a vim? git? emacs? grep? ed? awk? I think Users gonna Use regardless, or 
git out. [1]

That said, if tiddlers were renamed kibbles, I'd still use KibblyWiki, no 
problems

Best,
tony

[1] Over the years we've had consistent feedback on the name "TiddlyWiki" 
that ranges between:

* I don't care about the name, it's just a meaningless string of letters
* I think the name is fine, it's distinctive, and has few false positives 
when Googling
On Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 3:28:02 PM UTC-8 TW Tones wrote:

> For clarity,
>
> Mark, I am Australian , lived in Papua new Guinea and New Zealand as a 
> Child, tiddler always implied small and diminutive, but the children's game 
> TiddlyWinks is a dominant thought. The idea of a tiddler as a fish to throw 
> back if caught may have proceeded my discovery of tiddler in tiddlywiki. 
> From memory now clouded by what I know now, was a Tiddle or Twiddle was 
> used for a pee.
>
> Not withstanding these similar sounding words, uniqueness is of great 
> value, and we learn to assign meaning. It is only in the outreach to new 
> users where somewhat arbitrary names do not carry information and this can 
> be addressed by surrounding the use of the word with information and 
> explanation.
>
> Look at a google search of tiddler, first page I see the following that 
> money could not buy;
> [image: Snag_19d10b0a.png]
>
> *Meme*
> There is a thing called an *internet meme*,  but if you are interested 
> please research the original meaning. It is a cultural / intellectual 
> corollary of the Gene coined I thing by Richard Dawkins. The thing is memes 
> can survive and propagate in in minds and culture. To degrade the meaning 
> of meme to popular cats is degrading our language and the word. But it can 
> also get people to look that may otherwise not.
>
> Traditionally a tiddler would also be considered a *record*, with its 
> unique key, this has a specific technical meaning but also to some degree a 
> common English meaning. I wonder if this is the case in other languages?
>
> *Record*
> As I have voiced at length in the past, tiddlywiki places the "record" at 
> eye level and treats it as an every day object the tiddler, this is perhaps 
> one of tiddlywiki's key features, in other cases records are hidden, or 
> there contents in attachment's. Tiddlywiki then provides the tools to list 
> and tabulate records, including those that describe the UI and add 
> functionality.
>
> The synonyms of "record" list many of the things someone may use 
> tiddlywiki for. see here https://www.lexico.com/synonyms/record
>
> And I notice tiddlywiki is also "record breaking";
> *record-breaking*, best ever, its best, one's best, optimum, unbeaten, 
> unsurpassed, unparalleled, unequalled, superlative, second to none, never 
> previously achieved  
>
> Tones
> On Thursday, 31 December 2020 at 04:27:23 UTC+11 Mark S. wrote:
>
>> It would be interesting if people posted their approximate geographical 
>> location, where they grew up, and what the word "tiddler" suggests to them.
>>
>> When you've never heard a word, your brain reaches for the closest one it 
>> can think of.
>>
>> To most members of the largest English speaking country on the planet -- 
>> larger than the UK by a factor of 6 -- "tiddler" doesn't mean anything. I 
>> grew up with fishermen, and no one used "tiddler".
>>
>> However, this very bad, very similar-sounding word 
>>  does mean 
>> something to anyone who reads modern literature or watches Netflix. Be sure 
>> to scroll down to look at definition #2. To be sure, it's a recent 
>> definition, coming in the last 30 years or so. But that's how language 
>> changes.
>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Michael Wiktowy]

"Record" is the terminology that I use when I am describing what TiddlyWiki 
uses as it's atomic unit to someone. It is little more standard than "tiddler" 
and has the potential to leverage some previous understanding of databases. :]

/Mike

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[TW Tones]

For clarity,

Mark, I am Australian , lived in Papua new Guinea and New Zealand as a 
Child, tiddler always implied small and diminutive, but the children's game 
TiddlyWinks is a dominant thought. The idea of a tiddler as a fish to throw 
back if caught may have proceeded my discovery of tiddler in tiddlywiki. 
>From memory now clouded by what I know now, was a Tiddle or Twiddle was 
used for a pee.

Not withstanding these similar sounding words, uniqueness is of great 
value, and we learn to assign meaning. It is only in the outreach to new 
users where somewhat arbitrary names do not carry information and this can 
be addressed by surrounding the use of the word with information and 
explanation.

Look at a google search of tiddler, first page I see the following that 
money could not buy;
[image: Snag_19d10b0a.png]

*Meme*
There is a thing called an *internet meme*,  but if you are interested 
please research the original meaning. It is a cultural / intellectual 
corollary of the Gene coined I thing by Richard Dawkins. The thing is memes 
can survive and propagate in in minds and culture. To degrade the meaning 
of meme to popular cats is degrading our language and the word. But it can 
also get people to look that may otherwise not.

Traditionally a tiddler would also be considered a *record*, with its 
unique key, this has a specific technical meaning but also to some degree a 
common English meaning. I wonder if this is the case in other languages?

*Record*
As I have voiced at length in the past, tiddlywiki places the "record" at 
eye level and treats it as an every day object the tiddler, this is perhaps 
one of tiddlywiki's key features, in other cases records are hidden, or 
there contents in attachment's. Tiddlywiki then provides the tools to list 
and tabulate records, including those that describe the UI and add 
functionality.

The synonyms of "record" list many of the things someone may use tiddlywiki 
for. see here https://www.lexico.com/synonyms/record

And I notice tiddlywiki is also "record breaking";
*record-breaking*, best ever, its best, one's best, optimum, unbeaten, 
unsurpassed, unparalleled, unequalled, superlative, second to none, never 
previously achieved  

Tones
On Thursday, 31 December 2020 at 04:27:23 UTC+11 Mark S. wrote:

> It would be interesting if people posted their approximate geographical 
> location, where they grew up, and what the word "tiddler" suggests to them.
>
> When you've never heard a word, your brain reaches for the closest one it 
> can think of.
>
> To most members of the largest English speaking country on the planet -- 
> larger than the UK by a factor of 6 -- "tiddler" doesn't mean anything. I 
> grew up with fishermen, and no one used "tiddler".
>
> However, this very bad, very similar-sounding word 
>  does mean 
> something to anyone who reads modern literature or watches Netflix. Be sure 
> to scroll down to look at definition #2. To be sure, it's a recent 
> definition, coming in the last 30 years or so. But that's how language 
> changes.
>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

It would be interesting if people posted their approximate geographical 
location, where they grew up, and what the word "tiddler" suggests to them.

When you've never heard a word, your brain reaches for the closest one it 
can think of.

To most members of the largest English speaking country on the planet -- 
larger than the UK by a factor of 6 -- "tiddler" doesn't mean anything. I 
grew up with fishermen, and no one used "tiddler".

However, this very bad, very similar-sounding word 
 does mean 
something to anyone who reads modern literature or watches Netflix. Be sure 
to scroll down to look at definition #2. To be sure, it's a recent 
definition, coming in the last 30 years or so. But that's how language 
changes.

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[odin...@gmail.com]

Thoughts from a non-coding user that has learned some wikitext/html/css 
over the past year to customize his tiddlywiki:

If the goal is to attract a wider audience/more people to use TiddlyWiki, 
namechanging itself won't be enough I think. I agree what is said before on 
the name itself not really being a thing, if the app can do your stuff 
well, people won't notice the name. Also, most todo or notetaking apps have 
their own terminology. Notion calls it pages and their smallest units are 
blocks, While RoamResearch calls it nodes.

If you look at other notetaking/productivity apps, they have a lot of 
information on their website specifically targeted to 'brand new users 
without any knowledge'. They have a lot of onboarding information. 
Sometimes they just spell out the way you could customize and use their 
application for a certain use-case. Users need to be able to see the 
possibilities the application provides meets their demands in a visually 
pleasing and inviting way.

For example, Notion has pages with screenshots 
 of different ways of using it for 
students, teams, startups, personal use etc.
Todoist has templates new users can import 
to start off from.
Obsidian has a big screenshot showcasing  most of the 
key features right of the bat.
There is a gentle guide into TiddlyWiki on the official TiddlyWiki page. 
But I don't think it is visual inviting enough. Also, the examples provided 
are out of date. So I think there is a lot to be gained in this area. (so I 
agree with Mohammed in the third post of this thread) Maybe I'll start 
sharing some of my solutions soon. I wish I was proficient in youtube to be 
making tutorials though.

I think this was highlighted with the rise of Zettelkasten this past year. 
Some people made some prepackaged editions that made TiddlyWiki a 
well-performing Zettelkasten system out of the box. There is still activity 
of users in this forum that are using Stroll, Drift, TiddlyResearch etc.

PS: Also note that 'meme ' has a 
widely different meaning and connotation in internet culture. So I would 
not be in favour of renaming tiddlers into memes.

Op woensdag 30 december 2020 om 17:47:20 UTC+1 schreef Ed Heil:

> Data point from a fairly new (<1y) user.
>
> "Tiddlywiki" and "tiddler" stopped sounding weird to me very quickly.  
> Renaming "because there's something inherently wrong with the name" seems 
> silly to me.
>
> Renaming because of a new baseline codebase/breaking changes?  that makes 
> more sense.  It does make me sad for the existing TW5 codebase with all the 
> incredible work that's gone into the code itself and to plugins (like 
> Tiddlymap!  Tiddlymap is so amazing!  Would it be ported over?  It's the 
> best!).  And worried about stuff being left behind.
>
> In accordance with Jeremy's wishes, I hereby have no opinion whatsoever 
> about what a good new name would be. :)
>
> One thing I would be actually concerned about, is what a new codebase 
> would do in terms of "minimum browser version needed."  It's fun to chase 
> the new JS technology available by default in newer browsers, but it would 
> be a real shame to exclude people with old browsers any more than was 
> necessary.
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 11:17:47 AM UTC-5 Osin wrote:
>
>> My disjointed 2 cents: 
>>
>> The names "TiddlyWiki" and "Tiddler" got a few chuckles from my manager 
>> when I proposed it as a solution for an internal Wiki/Knowledge Base, then 
>> we moved on. It's a funny and unique name, but I don't think it's 
>> necessarily that bad once that initial bump has been passed over. Now I 
>> just say "Wiki". I didn't know Wiki was perceived as outdated. So in that 
>> sense, I agree with whoever gave the example of construction jargon.
>>
>> My first reaction to "xememex" was to re-read it a few times to figure 
>> out how to read it (granted, I barely slept and haven't had coffee yet). It 
>> is easy to type once I figured out where to put the e and the m and the x, 
>> but that's the only benefit to the current name. People pronounce GIF two 
>> ways as well, so maybe the pronunciation aspect of it isn't as bad. How 
>> often would one communicate the name in writing vs speech? "Meme" screams 
>> funny images with text, but that connotation might just be a fad.
>>
>> That being said, reading through the replies, I feel that the renaming 
>> brainstorm is focusing on power-users and developers as the "target 
>> audience". What is being sought exactly with the name change? To make 
>> people in the google group like the name and make things easier for the 
>> devs, or popularize the platform? I think defining this needs to be a 
>> priority before starting to brainstorm names. In that sense, maybe 
>> crowdfunding and paying a branding/communication consultant might be 
>> something to consider? It reminds me of a time when 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Ed Heil]

Data point from a fairly new (<1y) user.

"Tiddlywiki" and "tiddler" stopped sounding weird to me very quickly.  
Renaming "because there's something inherently wrong with the name" seems 
silly to me.

Renaming because of a new baseline codebase/breaking changes?  that makes 
more sense.  It does make me sad for the existing TW5 codebase with all the 
incredible work that's gone into the code itself and to plugins (like 
Tiddlymap!  Tiddlymap is so amazing!  Would it be ported over?  It's the 
best!).  And worried about stuff being left behind.

In accordance with Jeremy's wishes, I hereby have no opinion whatsoever 
about what a good new name would be. :)

One thing I would be actually concerned about, is what a new codebase would 
do in terms of "minimum browser version needed."  It's fun to chase the new 
JS technology available by default in newer browsers, but it would be a 
real shame to exclude people with old browsers any more than was necessary.


On Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 11:17:47 AM UTC-5 Osin wrote:

> My disjointed 2 cents: 
>
> The names "TiddlyWiki" and "Tiddler" got a few chuckles from my manager 
> when I proposed it as a solution for an internal Wiki/Knowledge Base, then 
> we moved on. It's a funny and unique name, but I don't think it's 
> necessarily that bad once that initial bump has been passed over. Now I 
> just say "Wiki". I didn't know Wiki was perceived as outdated. So in that 
> sense, I agree with whoever gave the example of construction jargon.
>
> My first reaction to "xememex" was to re-read it a few times to figure out 
> how to read it (granted, I barely slept and haven't had coffee yet). It is 
> easy to type once I figured out where to put the e and the m and the x, but 
> that's the only benefit to the current name. People pronounce GIF two ways 
> as well, so maybe the pronunciation aspect of it isn't as bad. How often 
> would one communicate the name in writing vs speech? "Meme" screams funny 
> images with text, but that connotation might just be a fad.
>
> That being said, reading through the replies, I feel that the renaming 
> brainstorm is focusing on power-users and developers as the "target 
> audience". What is being sought exactly with the name change? To make 
> people in the google group like the name and make things easier for the 
> devs, or popularize the platform? I think defining this needs to be a 
> priority before starting to brainstorm names. In that sense, maybe 
> crowdfunding and paying a branding/communication consultant might be 
> something to consider? It reminds me of a time when software engineers made 
> design decisions, before UX Research was a thing. I say this as a 
> non-programmer outsider-type who is just interested in organizing his crap, 
> slowly trying to wrap my head around TW.
>
> I tried to brainstorm in vain. I thought that maybe keeping the "TW" in 
> some shape or form would make sense (TW+Quine=Twine? [already exists] 
> qTwine? Qwine?) or keeping the "Tid" part, "Wiktid'? It could be even used 
> as a verb: "I wiktid my thoughts". "Let me wiktid what you just said". As 
> you can see, my brain cells are starting to give out.
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 6:00:36 AM UTC-5 TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>> Ciao Jeremy 
>>
>> I get the point that meandering over all possible names ain't helpful.
>>
>> And I also LIKE the general idea that our tool is dealing with 
>> FUNDAMENTAL SEMANTIC ARCHITECTURAL re-composition at will ... In other 
>> words, basically our tool explores and refoliates the nature of information 
>> retrieval and organisation via the Net ... 
>>
>> And that REMAINS an open-ended project. It is that ROOTING of our tool in 
>> that problematic (Bush's) I find both fascinating and very enlightening.
>>
>> And that is WHY I'd prefer MEMEX / XEMEMEX type name over other options 
>> ... simply because it roots the problematic back into Vannevar Bush's 
>> superb insights (and prior to the Berner-Lee production steps) of the 
>> nature of the problem (indexing human memory = memex).
>>
>> Regarding scope. Well, I'd roughly say we have our tool as an ENGINE FOR 
>> MAKING new tools. But also our tool is ALSO the TOOLS MADE. It is that 
>> recursive "Quine-ish" thing I think can be most hard to grasp or 
>> communicate. *The Maker is also The Made.*
>>
>> Where we, overall on promotion, are likely lacking is more explicit 
>> promotion of Tools Made rather than the Tool-Maker. We do lack thorough 
>> SHOWCASING.
>>
>> In that sense there is more than one aspect to deriving a compelling 
>> moniker. IMO we need promote both Maker and The Made. 
>>
>> But Jeremy, thanks so much for bearing the weight forward. I really do 
>> feel your connection back to the "big problem" --- one that TW/xememex is, 
>> basically, still always facing and dealing with.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> TT
>>
>> jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The best alternatives I've got are "xememex" for the product, and "card" 
>>> for the 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Osin]

My disjointed 2 cents: 

The names "TiddlyWiki" and "Tiddler" got a few chuckles from my manager 
when I proposed it as a solution for an internal Wiki/Knowledge Base, then 
we moved on. It's a funny and unique name, but I don't think it's 
necessarily that bad once that initial bump has been passed over. Now I 
just say "Wiki". I didn't know Wiki was perceived as outdated. So in that 
sense, I agree with whoever gave the example of construction jargon.

My first reaction to "xememex" was to re-read it a few times to figure out 
how to read it (granted, I barely slept and haven't had coffee yet). It is 
easy to type once I figured out where to put the e and the m and the x, but 
that's the only benefit to the current name. People pronounce GIF two ways 
as well, so maybe the pronunciation aspect of it isn't as bad. How often 
would one communicate the name in writing vs speech? "Meme" screams funny 
images with text, but that connotation might just be a fad.

That being said, reading through the replies, I feel that the renaming 
brainstorm is focusing on power-users and developers as the "target 
audience". What is being sought exactly with the name change? To make 
people in the google group like the name and make things easier for the 
devs, or popularize the platform? I think defining this needs to be a 
priority before starting to brainstorm names. In that sense, maybe 
crowdfunding and paying a branding/communication consultant might be 
something to consider? It reminds me of a time when software engineers made 
design decisions, before UX Research was a thing. I say this as a 
non-programmer outsider-type who is just interested in organizing his crap, 
slowly trying to wrap my head around TW.

I tried to brainstorm in vain. I thought that maybe keeping the "TW" in 
some shape or form would make sense (TW+Quine=Twine? [already exists] 
qTwine? Qwine?) or keeping the "Tid" part, "Wiktid'? It could be even used 
as a verb: "I wiktid my thoughts". "Let me wiktid what you just said". As 
you can see, my brain cells are starting to give out.


On Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 6:00:36 AM UTC-5 TiddlyTweeter wrote:

> Ciao Jeremy 
>
> I get the point that meandering over all possible names ain't helpful.
>
> And I also LIKE the general idea that our tool is dealing with FUNDAMENTAL 
> SEMANTIC ARCHITECTURAL re-composition at will ... In other words, basically 
> our tool explores and refoliates the nature of information retrieval and 
> organisation via the Net ... 
>
> And that REMAINS an open-ended project. It is that ROOTING of our tool in 
> that problematic (Bush's) I find both fascinating and very enlightening.
>
> And that is WHY I'd prefer MEMEX / XEMEMEX type name over other options 
> ... simply because it roots the problematic back into Vannevar Bush's 
> superb insights (and prior to the Berner-Lee production steps) of the 
> nature of the problem (indexing human memory = memex).
>
> Regarding scope. Well, I'd roughly say we have our tool as an ENGINE FOR 
> MAKING new tools. But also our tool is ALSO the TOOLS MADE. It is that 
> recursive "Quine-ish" thing I think can be most hard to grasp or 
> communicate. *The Maker is also The Made.*
>
> Where we, overall on promotion, are likely lacking is more explicit 
> promotion of Tools Made rather than the Tool-Maker. We do lack thorough 
> SHOWCASING.
>
> In that sense there is more than one aspect to deriving a compelling 
> moniker. IMO we need promote both Maker and The Made. 
>
> But Jeremy, thanks so much for bearing the weight forward. I really do 
> feel your connection back to the "big problem" --- one that TW/xememex is, 
> basically, still always facing and dealing with.
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>
> jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The best alternatives I've got are "xememex" for the product, and "card" 
>> for the unit of information. I've had the domain xememex.com for a few 
>> years and the @xememex user account.
>>
>> "Xememex" is of course a palindromisation of Vannevar Bush's "memex":
>>
>>
>> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1945/07/as-we-may-think/303881/
>>
>
>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Aidan Grey]

reading and mostly staying quiet, but...

Hate Xememex (is that the right number of ms and xes). How do I pronounce
it? Not terribly concerned with the architectural provenance and meaning,
and I think the nitpicking here is less helpful. Rebrand, for
aforementioned reasons, is reasonable, but there's overthinking.

I also think that folding all that thought into an acronym that does double
duty would be better. Honor the thinkers, but do it in a way that is
transparent and irrelevant unless someone wants to look there, because day
to day, practically, the high theory isn't why people use TW.

PicoWiki. PicoCard. Picard! That's what I came to say :)



On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:21 AM David Gifford  wrote:

> wow
>
> the things i miss when i go on a short trip. my input, which everyone will
> just proceed to ignore:
>
> 1. I think forking is a good idea if there is going to be a big overhaul.
> I am in favor of making things easier for those who design and develop this
> wonder of technology, even though it means fatigue for me: more moving
> stuff to a new system, more learning curve, more waiting for the new system
> to get all or most of the goodies from the previous system.
>
> 2. I support 'card' or 'notecard' as a  replacement for 'tiddler'.
> Notecardnet.com, Notecardgen.com, Notecardsystem.com and Notecardweb.com
> look like they might be available. Which I find utterly amazing.
>
> 3. If the goal is to do all the work of overhauling TW for nothing and
> continue to limit TW to the same small group of programming aficionados and
> a few odd stragglers like myself, then by all means, use xememex, but if
> your goal is to try to open TW to a wider market, reconsidering the name is
> important.
>
> a) I had the same thought as others, that xememex it sounds like Zantac or
> some similar drug. If you have side effects after using Xememex, please
> consult with your doctor.
> b) Some of you may get all feely thinking about Memex and Vannevar Bush. I
> think most people will just assume the word Memex has to do with some old
> outdated technology like mimeographs or something you use with those old
> punch cards that my Aunt Linda used to bring home from her computing job in
> the early 70s. That will be offputting just as TiddlyWiki is.
> c) I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade or be negative or resistant
> to change. I am just trying to offer a perspective others might not have
> thought of. Avoid anything that doesn't roll off the tongue or that has
> negative associations (outdated is not something you want people to think
> of when they hear the name of your product).
>
> FWIW. Blessings.
>
>
>
> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 12:14:43 AM UTC-6 positiv...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> I couldn't find if this topic has already been re-hashed this decade. But
>> I was wondering if there is any value in discussing alternative names to
>> the "Tiddly" part of the TiddlyWIki project. This project has been around
>> for so long that renaming / rebranding would be quite an effort. And the
>> Tiddly part is unique within programming projects, which helps to eliminate
>> false positives when searching for sample code.
>>
>> I am an American living on the Pacific Coast, so my linguistic
>> preferences are definitely different from Jeremy's. But just saying the
>> word 'Tiddly' out loud feels like trying to get people from certain Germany
>> dialects to say the word "Squirrel." It always feels forced to me.
>>
>> A joke by Lt. Commander Data on Star Trek the Next Generation was about
>> someone mispronouncing 'kidneys' as 'kiddleys.' We the store keeper
>> corrected him, the customer contested, "No, I said 'kiddleys.' Diddle I?"
>>
>> From just a project standpoint, the word 'Tiddly' is trying to focus on
>> the "small amount" of data or code that should be in any one unit. This way
>> many units can be combined in various ways to satisfy different needs.
>> Although it is intended to produce a Wiki-like user interface with deep
>> linking and back references, the way you go about it is by breaking up
>> large pieces of information into re-usable components.
>>
>> If your goal is to create "tiddlers," then using a TiddlyWiki application
>> would be a natural fit. If the goal of most people is to make small units
>> of re-usable components, then perhaps a different prefix would make it more
>> appealing. Again, this is just a personal opinion and not a slight on the
>> TiddlyWiki project as a whole, which I have been using frequently everyday.
>>
>> There have been two alternate words kicking around in my head lately.
>> TipWiki or DotWiki.
>>
>> 'Tip' has a very similar double meaning to Tiddly - drunk people can be
>> 'tiddly' or 'tipsy', and just the 'tip' of something or a 'tiddly' amount
>> of something is quite small. There is an additional English meaning of
>> 'tip' to mean 'a small note or suggestion.' That seems to be actually the
>> point of TiddlyWiki: Make lots of small notes that can be 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Jeremy 

I get the point that meandering over all possible names ain't helpful.

And I also LIKE the general idea that our tool is dealing with FUNDAMENTAL 
SEMANTIC ARCHITECTURAL re-composition at will ... In other words, basically 
our tool explores and refoliates the nature of information retrieval and 
organisation via the Net ... 

And that REMAINS an open-ended project. It is that ROOTING of our tool in 
that problematic (Bush's) I find both fascinating and very enlightening.

And that is WHY I'd prefer MEMEX / XEMEMEX type name over other options ... 
simply because it roots the problematic back into Vannevar Bush's superb 
insights (and prior to the Berner-Lee production steps) of the nature of 
the problem (indexing human memory = memex).

Regarding scope. Well, I'd roughly say we have our tool as an ENGINE FOR 
MAKING new tools. But also our tool is ALSO the TOOLS MADE. It is that 
recursive "Quine-ish" thing I think can be most hard to grasp or 
communicate. *The Maker is also The Made.*

Where we, overall on promotion, are likely lacking is more explicit 
promotion of Tools Made rather than the Tool-Maker. We do lack thorough 
SHOWCASING.

In that sense there is more than one aspect to deriving a compelling 
moniker. IMO we need promote both Maker and The Made. 

But Jeremy, thanks so much for bearing the weight forward. I really do feel 
your connection back to the "big problem" --- one that TW/xememex is, 
basically, still always facing and dealing with.

Best wishes
TT

jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

> The best alternatives I've got are "xememex" for the product, and "card" 
> for the unit of information. I've had the domain xememex.com for a few 
> years and the @xememex user account.
>
> "Xememex" is of course a palindromisation of Vannevar Bush's "memex":
>
>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1945/07/as-we-may-think/303881/
>

>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Charlie Veniot]

Myself, I'm rather a fan of, kind of attached to, the word "tiddler" and 
all the goodness the word represents semantically/philosophically.

Every time I create a tiddler, "tiddler" immediately puts me in the 
philosophical mindset while in the process of creating/writing/organizing.

On Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 12:02:18 AM UTC-4 positiv... wrote:

>
> Please can we consider just implementing "card" as the unit name in the 
> next version of TiddlyWiki. It is just renaming one word in the 
> documentation and making a synonym for the currentTiddler variable. Then 
> "currentTiddler" can just become a side-note in the documentation somewhere 
> for historical reference. 100% backward compatible, and a ton less friction 
> when trying to get others involved with using the project.
>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Thomas Stone]

Thanks for all the great responses. I agree with Arun Babu that the 
modernization of TiddlyWiki is in a separate project would be great to 
have, and rebranding would be helpful to that end.

I also agree with Charlie Veniot that the current project's name is NOT a 
problem. Everyone who I talk to hears the title and skips immediately over 
to: "Ok. Now what's in it for me."

My problem with using TiddlyWiki is in trying to explain to anyone reading 
the documentation about the word Tiddler. Every other programming language 
uses objects and properties, tables and columns, forms and fields, code and 
variables. TiddlyWiki use "tiddlers," which immediately shuts down any 
productive conversation with anyone who has done any programming in any 
language. It may be cute the first couple of times you come across it, but 
having it shoved into every piece of documentation and every basic piece of 
code is incredibly dissonant.

I was suggesting a rebrand merely because I could not imagine the community 
being willing to give up using the "tiddler" unit name. Looking through the 
above conversations, I now realize that rebranding is too complicated to 
get underway in short order.

Please can we consider just implementing "card" as the unit name in the 
next version of TiddlyWiki. It is just renaming one word in the 
documentation and making a synonym for the currentTiddler variable. Then 
"currentTiddler" can just become a side-note in the documentation somewhere 
for historical reference. 100% backward compatible, and a ton less friction 
when trying to get others involved with using the project.

On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 6:03:31 PM UTC-8 TW Tones wrote:

> Interesting and well considered commentary in this thread.
>
>
>- Sadly TiddlyWiki has trouble being taken seriously, friends think I 
>am obsessed with something, no more complex than "tiddly Winks" (this 
>annoys me but is true). They rarely hear Wiki.  
>
>
> Some points from my view. I delight in any form of naming competition, but 
> here I share some of the tricks of the trade rather than offer a particular 
> name; I hope you believe me when I say I have somewhat of a knack here, not 
> to choose, but to generate.
>
>1. Never loose tiddlywiki altogether even after rebranding keep it in 
>the search content, tracking its history is critical to retaining its 
>legacy.
>2. As I have said before combining additional words can raise the 
>seriousness eg "TiddlyWiki Platform" TWP is not suggesting a trivial game
>3. Rather than change the name you could change the catch phrase "a 
>non-linear personal web notebook" and introduce a new name (initially) "My 
>Non-linear Knowledge base" (MyNKB) or network MyKN or simply MyKnowledge
>4. It is safer to release a new name next to the old eg;  *Xememex 
>next generation tiddlywiki [platform]* until the new name is 
>established and linked to tiddlywiki in many searches.
>5. In Australia the song "from little things, big things grow" 
>(FLTBTG), I feel it is somewhere down this path we may need to go
>6. Both  *Xememex even Timimi * blur in my mind and remind me when 
>"Prince" was a symbol, somewhat unpronounceable, or a mouthful. Any brand 
>should roll off the tongue and be unambiguous.
>   1. I have my own brand as an example 121c try saying it, each 
>   syllable follows the last. "one two one c" stands for "one to one, 
>   connections"
>7. Sitting on top of existing trends may be smart, as  *Xememex* implies 
>today we have the "meme" so I wonder if it were the memeDB,  memeticDB , 
>where meme implies a small idea, that can spread and evolve. Is DB common 
>enough, or too technical? Perhaps calling tiddlers memes would work?
>8. Alternatively a word built from a phrase that has being made into 
>an acronym,  can help especially if the full phrase is invoked on reading. 
>Even if you choose a word then retrospectively convert it to a phrase, the 
>phrase, if good, the meaning will exist behind it as an "aid memoir".  
>9. If we are not suggesting tiddlywiki is a repository of knowledge or 
>algorithms, I think it needs to reflect action or interactions. InteractDB 
>InteractWiki actionmemes  
>10. Ownership is an importantly part of tiddlyWiki MyMemes or MyDB 
>(urban dictionary My Dam Business), perhaps sanitised (replace dam eg Data 
>base),   MyMemeDB, but its also a knowledge network  MyKnowledgeNetwork  
>MyKN mykn like F.kn? MyMemeKN, KnowledgeMine 
>11. Single common letter prefixes, Tiddlywiki is intelligent, iMemes 
>Intelligent Memes, is creative CDB creative DB, myCDB myCmemeDB  
>12. It is a wiki, but if its meaning is less favoured hide it as an 
>initial W, WWork WikiWork
>13. Is tiddlywiki a sandbox for apps, ideas and websites?
>   1. MySandBox build your own sand castles, memecastles castlememes, 
>   

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[TW Tones]

Interesting and well considered commentary in this thread.


   - Sadly TiddlyWiki has trouble being taken seriously, friends think I am 
   obsessed with something, no more complex than "tiddly Winks" (this annoys 
   me but is true). They rarely hear Wiki.  


Some points from my view. I delight in any form of naming competition, but 
here I share some of the tricks of the trade rather than offer a particular 
name; I hope you believe me when I say I have somewhat of a knack here, not 
to choose, but to generate.

   1. Never loose tiddlywiki altogether even after rebranding keep it in 
   the search content, tracking its history is critical to retaining its 
   legacy.
   2. As I have said before combining additional words can raise the 
   seriousness eg "TiddlyWiki Platform" TWP is not suggesting a trivial game
   3. Rather than change the name you could change the catch phrase "a 
   non-linear personal web notebook" and introduce a new name (initially) "My 
   Non-linear Knowledge base" (MyNKB) or network MyKN or simply MyKnowledge
   4. It is safer to release a new name next to the old eg;  *Xememex next 
   generation tiddlywiki [platform]* until the new name is established and 
   linked to tiddlywiki in many searches.
   5. In Australia the song "from little things, big things grow" (FLTBTG), 
   I feel it is somewhere down this path we may need to go
   6. Both  *Xememex even Timimi * blur in my mind and remind me when 
   "Prince" was a symbol, somewhat unpronounceable, or a mouthful. Any brand 
   should roll off the tongue and be unambiguous.
  1. I have my own brand as an example 121c try saying it, each 
  syllable follows the last. "one two one c" stands for "one to one, 
  connections"
   7. Sitting on top of existing trends may be smart, as  *Xememex* implies 
   today we have the "meme" so I wonder if it were the memeDB,  memeticDB , 
   where meme implies a small idea, that can spread and evolve. Is DB common 
   enough, or too technical? Perhaps calling tiddlers memes would work?
   8. Alternatively a word built from a phrase that has being made into an 
   acronym,  can help especially if the full phrase is invoked on reading. 
   Even if you choose a word then retrospectively convert it to a phrase, the 
   phrase, if good, the meaning will exist behind it as an "aid memoir".  
   9. If we are not suggesting tiddlywiki is a repository of knowledge or 
   algorithms, I think it needs to reflect action or interactions. InteractDB 
   InteractWiki actionmemes  
   10. Ownership is an importantly part of tiddlyWiki MyMemes or MyDB 
   (urban dictionary My Dam Business), perhaps sanitised (replace dam eg Data 
   base),   MyMemeDB, but its also a knowledge network  MyKnowledgeNetwork  
   MyKN mykn like F.kn? MyMemeKN, KnowledgeMine 
   11. Single common letter prefixes, Tiddlywiki is intelligent, iMemes 
   Intelligent Memes, is creative CDB creative DB, myCDB myCmemeDB  
   12. It is a wiki, but if its meaning is less favoured hide it as an 
   initial W, WWork WikiWork
   13. Is tiddlywiki a sandbox for apps, ideas and websites?
  1. MySandBox build your own sand castles, memecastles castlememes, 
  MyCastles MySandCastles My.S.C.
  2. This suggests playful but serious?
   14. TiddlyWiki promises an uncompromised future of possibilities 
   BlueSkyDB BlueSkyKN where blue sky is an open future KN knowledge network, 
   or Knowledge and Notes.
   15. Community is one of tiddlywikis strengths, perhaps that can be part 
   of it? Knowledge Community MyKC or Collaboration Network? MyCN
   16. TiddlyWiki can model many algorithms which are increasingly used in 
   every day language MyAlgorithiums MyKAN "my Knowledge and Algorithm Network"
   17. Remember really large organisations are forced to have unique names, 
   but try and avoid meaning in the name so as not to hide the complexity of 
   there products and services, this is not what tiddlywiki could do, it could 
   embrace its openness and opportunities.
   18. What about a corrupted phrase, rather than "Infinite Regression" use 
   "Infinite Expansion" ? 

Yours thoughtfully
Tones
On Wednesday, 30 December 2020 at 01:32:30 UTC+11 pdro...@gmail.com wrote:

> I would like to give my 2 cents to this rebranding discussion by agreeing 
> with Charlie Veniot that "Xememex" sounds like a name for a drug. If it is 
> the overall consent that "TiddlyWiki" is a bad name that diminishes the 
> product, I'm confused how "Xememex" would help in that sense. I'm probably 
> missing something here, and maybe "Xememex" sounds better to native english 
> speakers, but I could probably convince my colleagues to use "TiddlyWiki", 
> and they would have an idea about what this software is about just by 
> hearing the name, but they would be completely lost if they hear "Xememex".
>
> If a rebranding is important, and if it requires a new name for the 
> product instead of just changing logos, colors, and stuff like that, then 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Pedro]

I would like to give my 2 cents to this rebranding discussion by agreeing
with Charlie Veniot that "Xememex" sounds like a name for a drug. If it is
the overall consent that "TiddlyWiki" is a bad name that diminishes the
product, I'm confused how "Xememex" would help in that sense. I'm probably
missing something here, and maybe "Xememex" sounds better to native english
speakers, but I could probably convince my colleagues to use "TiddlyWiki",
and they would have an idea about what this software is about just by
hearing the name, but they would be completely lost if they hear "Xememex".

If a rebranding is important, and if it requires a new name for the product
instead of just changing logos, colors, and stuff like that, then we need a
simpler word. For instance, some days ago I found a project built upon
TiddlyWiki called "Projectify". The name is simple and anyone would have an
idea what it is about just by reading it. If the name must be changed, then
we should pick something easier to digest.


--
Pedro Alves


*PhD candidate in Computer Science*

*Institute of Computing - University of Campinas*


Em ter., 29 de dez. de 2020 às 15:13, Charlie Veniot 
escreveu:

> "Xememex" to me sounds like a name for a pharmaceutical company.
>
> Or a drug.
>
> Maybe I'd be fine with something like that as an add-on to the name TW.  A
> bit like "Debian Sarge", "Debian Buster", "Debian Sid"
>
> The name "TiddlyWiki" makes it so easy to find anything in the related
> body of knowledge.  "Xememex" won't lead to all things TiddlyWiki that can
> be found on the web.
>
> "TW Xememex", the long version being : "TiddlyWiki Xememex".  That could
> be the best of all worlds.
>
> The challenge of TiddlyWiki and broad acceptance isn't resistance for the
> cutesy "Tiddly" or cutesy "Wiki" .
>
> There was once a saying: "you don't get fired for choosing IBM."  Today,
> I'm thinking: "you don't get fired for choosing Microsoft."  Changing TW
> (TiddlyWiki) to anything else won't matter much when corporate types are
> likely more interested in picking solutions that look good on their own
> resumes.
>
> To me, I wouldn't try convincing folk of using "TiddlyWiki" as a solution
> to a problem.  TiddlyWiki is the platform with which I would build the
> solution.  The name I then give to the solution is what I use.  The name is
> different for every solution.
>
> Something like that.  I've got some complicated picture of it all in my
> head, and putting that into concise and elegant words will need a few more
> cups of coffee in me ...
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 2:32:53 AM UTC-4 Mark S. wrote:
>
>> Xememex contains only 3 letters, arranged to spell the same forward and
>> back. How hard could that be to remember?
>>
>> Speaking of not appealing, I remember be astonished as a kid that Exxon
>> had spent thousands (millions ?) developing it's name. It only got worse
>> after the Exxon Valdez (which, BTW, was rebranded).
>>
>>
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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Charlie Veniot]

"Xememex" to me sounds like a name for a pharmaceutical company.

Or a drug.

Maybe I'd be fine with something like that as an add-on to the name TW.  A 
bit like "Debian Sarge", "Debian Buster", "Debian Sid"

The name "TiddlyWiki" makes it so easy to find anything in the related body 
of knowledge.  "Xememex" won't lead to all things TiddlyWiki that can be 
found on the web.

"TW Xememex", the long version being : "TiddlyWiki Xememex".  That could be 
the best of all worlds.

The challenge of TiddlyWiki and broad acceptance isn't resistance for the 
cutesy "Tiddly" or cutesy "Wiki" .

There was once a saying: "you don't get fired for choosing IBM."  Today, 
I'm thinking: "you don't get fired for choosing Microsoft."  Changing TW 
(TiddlyWiki) to anything else won't matter much when corporate types are 
likely more interested in picking solutions that look good on their own 
resumes.

To me, I wouldn't try convincing folk of using "TiddlyWiki" as a solution 
to a problem.  TiddlyWiki is the platform with which I would build the 
solution.  The name I then give to the solution is what I use.  The name is 
different for every solution.

Something like that.  I've got some complicated picture of it all in my 
head, and putting that into concise and elegant words will need a few more 
cups of coffee in me ...


On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 2:32:53 AM UTC-4 Mark S. wrote:

> Xememex contains only 3 letters, arranged to spell the same forward and 
> back. How hard could that be to remember?
>
> Speaking of not appealing, I remember be astonished as a kid that Exxon 
> had spent thousands (millions ?) developing it's name. It only got worse 
> after the Exxon Valdez (which, BTW, was rebranded).
>
>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[arun babu]

I think modernization of TW should be the priority and it’s better to make 
use of the current momentum among developers and contributors for that. New 
project will naturally help in getting more reach for the software. 
Rebranding can be done at the time of launch of new software.  For the time 
being use Xememex as code name of the modernization project and give alpha 
/ beta software under xememex brand name at regular intervals for feedback 
in google group. As we use the new name frequently, we will obviously get 
to know whether the new name will have appeal among masses. Even a poll can 
be conducted among the user for feedback about the new name during the 
development period.

I will share some of my understandings about TW( though not related to this 
thread). Actually TW in its current state is very powerful if one 
understand the core features correctly and if we know where / how to use it 
in daily use. I am not saying I know every core features. I am still 
learning. The problem is that most of the new users won’t try to go through 
the documentation properly to understand TW. Then they will see some 
YouTube videos on TW, which in my opinion just show the basics alone. So 
they will conclude TW won’t suit them. UI might be turn off for some. But 
in my case, I find TW interface to be the best for maximizing my output. 
But I have used some plug ins to customize the UI of my TW. I like my 
customized TW more than any of the new crowd pulling note taking apps. But 
it took some effort from my part to reach that state. Everyone may not be 
willing to spend much time to customize their wiki. Recently I had posted 
in one discourse forum called “Productivists” regarding TW 
https://www.theproductivists.club/t/tiddlywiki-for-note-taking/121. The 
reply I got was surprising. They acknowledged the power of TW, but don't 
use TW for their note taking.

May be a there should be an official community website or blog built upon 
TW itself with a group of moderators for it. Plug in creators should submit 
their plug ins to be shown in this site with demonstration of real life 
examples regarding its usage. Also there should be real life examples of 
core features also. There should be an option for users to do experimental 
installation of plug ins which they wish to use as in Tones Playground 
. This should be shown in 
the welcome page of main website TW so that new users can see it easily. 
Modernization along with such steps will definitely will increase the 
appeal of TW to masses. Wishing for the best for TW!

On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 12:08:51 PM UTC+5:30 mwik...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 8:52:20 AM UTC-4 jeremy...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> That is indeed one of the critical questions.
>>
>> Over the years we've had consistent feedback on the name "TiddlyWiki" 
>> that ranges between:
>>
>> * I don't care about the name, it's just a meaningless string of letters
>> * I think the name is fine, it's distinctive, and has few false positives 
>> when Googling
>> * I think the name diminishes TiddlyWiki
>> * I think the name is a thinly veiled obscenity
>>
>
> I have struggled over the years trying to convince people of the serious 
> benefit that can be had from "this thing I use with a silly name" and 
> undoubtedly, at times, the name has been a bit of a hindrance in winning 
> people over. However, in the end, I have concluded that it doesn't really 
> matter. I don't think that a TiddlyWiki is a meaningless string of letters 
> but the vast majority of end-users aren't going to care what the 
> programming language/platform is called ... they just want to use the 
> output to do their particular tasks. So I have switched to selling people 
> on the output of the tool since they are more than likely not going to look 
> too deeply under the curtain to the inner sausage-factory that is a 
> TiddlyWiki widget. Now I normally just refer to the "Relevant Output Tool" 
> made from the "Wiki tool that I like to use" or a "Wiki system that uses 
> open web standards" and hope that they find the end result useful. If they 
> don't, it wouldn't matter if it had a sexy name.
>
> Javascript itself is a goofy and confusing name ... which went thorough 
> some renaming of its own (Mocha -> Livescript -> Javascript) to get to a 
> goofy and confusing name? There are no shortage of goofily named things 
> that are successful: Git, Rust, Yahoo, Google, Amazon. But they become less 
> goofy when people see the value and utility of them.
>
> So while I used to be in the 
> "change-the-name-so-I-find-it-less-embarrasing-to-say-to-my-boss" camp, I 
> am now in the 
> "make-it-indispensible-so-it-doesn't-matter-to-the-end-user-what-it-is-called"
>  
> camp. Efforts are best directed at making it easy and powerful to use and 
> allowing the particular terminology or branding to fade completely into the 
> background for those who don't 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Michael Wiktowy]

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 8:52:20 AM UTC-4 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

> That is indeed one of the critical questions.
>
> Over the years we've had consistent feedback on the name "TiddlyWiki" that 
> ranges between:
>
> * I don't care about the name, it's just a meaningless string of letters
> * I think the name is fine, it's distinctive, and has few false positives 
> when Googling
> * I think the name diminishes TiddlyWiki
> * I think the name is a thinly veiled obscenity
>

I have struggled over the years trying to convince people of the serious 
benefit that can be had from "this thing I use with a silly name" and 
undoubtedly, at times, the name has been a bit of a hindrance in winning 
people over. However, in the end, I have concluded that it doesn't really 
matter. I don't think that a TiddlyWiki is a meaningless string of letters 
but the vast majority of end-users aren't going to care what the 
programming language/platform is called ... they just want to use the 
output to do their particular tasks. So I have switched to selling people 
on the output of the tool since they are more than likely not going to look 
too deeply under the curtain to the inner sausage-factory that is a 
TiddlyWiki widget. Now I normally just refer to the "Relevant Output Tool" 
made from the "Wiki tool that I like to use" or a "Wiki system that uses 
open web standards" and hope that they find the end result useful. If they 
don't, it wouldn't matter if it had a sexy name.

Javascript itself is a goofy and confusing name ... which went thorough 
some renaming of its own (Mocha -> Livescript -> Javascript) to get to a 
goofy and confusing name? There are no shortage of goofily named things 
that are successful: Git, Rust, Yahoo, Google, Amazon. But they become less 
goofy when people see the value and utility of them.

So while I used to be in the 
"change-the-name-so-I-find-it-less-embarrasing-to-say-to-my-boss" camp, I 
am now in the 
"make-it-indispensible-so-it-doesn't-matter-to-the-end-user-what-it-is-called" 
camp. Efforts are best directed at making it easy and powerful to use and 
allowing the particular terminology or branding to fade completely into the 
background for those who don't care about how things are made. Just like 
most people don't care that their houses are composed of Studs, Weeping 
Tiles, Footings, Slips, Bargeboards, Kite Winders, Quoin, Scuncheons, 
Escutcheons, Scuttles ... they just want them to work and keep them from 
the elements.

/Mike

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Xememex contains only 3 letters, arranged to spell the same forward and 
back. How hard could that be to remember?

Speaking of not appealing, I remember be astonished as a kid that Exxon had 
spent thousands (millions ?) developing it's name. It only got worse after 
the Exxon Valdez (which, BTW, was rebranded).

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 8:17:51 PM UTC-8 kosmo...@gmail.com wrote:

> How about "Tidwiki" - "tid" from tidbit (a small morsel). Very similiar to 
> Tiddlywiki (a name I don't have any problem with, incidentally), just 
> shorter, and single Tidwikis could still be Tiddlers. "Xememex" does not 
> appeal; obscure and hard to remember.
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 12:34:47 PM UTC+11 positiv...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> The uniqueness of "xememex" is nice for making sure I find the sample 
>> code for just the new project. That is the only real concern I would have 
>> about renaming: Making sure search engine results can be refined easily.
>>
>> Although I personally agree that the project title word is just a random 
>> string of letters that I can copy-paste as a prefix for my search query, I 
>> personally dislike the repetition of letters in xememex. Although 
>> xemex.com com is already taken by a watch company, perhaps we could take 
>> advantage of some other TDL like xemex.dev on which browsers now require 
>> HTTPS communication.
>>
>> I agree wirh Stobot that 'Wiki' isn't a buzzword today and doesn't sound 
>> that professional. Knowledgebase abbreviated as KB is ubiquitous. Perhaps a 
>> rebrand focus could be Xememex Quine KB. This sums up where to go, why it 
>> is unique, and why you would want to use it. (Thanks to Matt for the 
>> suggestion.)
>>
>> Saying 'cards' is in the project name would be focusing on the 
>> implementation details instead of the user's overall problem. Cards can 
>> solve the problem, but that is just a necessay evil. An easy to update and 
>> re-link KB is their end goal. Perhaps some project concept abbreviations 
>> could be XM code in a QKB file?
>>
>> I do like the unit identity of "card" because it is unlikely to actually 
>> be in the content of anyone's actual documents or code. It is easy to find 
>> all such references, and isn't a sub-part of other common English words. It 
>> is very short to type, which is probably my biggest gripe about the 
>> 'currentTiddler' variable. It is used so often, I would really appreciate 
>> 'curCard' for the next iteration.
>>
>> I have been going through the documentation to learn how to create a 
>> working example of each individual option in TW. Just scratching the 
>> surface I keep running into 'depreciated' examples. A new fork for Xememex 
>> is definitely what I would desire. TWC is still being used today on old and 
>> current browsers. TW5 will continue to be used 15 years from now. Applying 
>> all the lessons learned to a separate project should make a clean break and 
>> require the minimum of today's latest browsers' functionality. Older 
>> browsers - if they must be used - will still work with the other projects.
>>
>> A focus on support for internationalization right out of the gate would 
>> also help. Just recently, Jeremy said trying to support field names with 
>> non-ASCII Unicode characters would be very complex under-the-hood. Making a 
>> clean re-design will help others to write cards and metadata in their own 
>> language much easier. 
>>
>> The hardest part of rebranding - as Mozilla well knows - is keeping the 
>> current project being able to support the latest fads instead of truly 
>> halting development for two years. I don't have any suggestions other than 
>> deciding the new project will only focus on implementing the existing 
>> TW5.1.23 features, and any new features will have to be brought in during a 
>> second round of updates after the base project is released.
>>
>> I only have two pleadings for improvements:
>>
>> 1) Please include some kind of string literal escape codes so we can use 
>> [ ], " ', etc. characters within filters without worrying about whether the 
>> query can succeeed. It would be like the !--html comment-- tag where all 
>> data inside is treated as non-code. Most people won't use these operation 
>> characters in card, tag or field names. Power users should have some method 
>> that consistently allows for them.
>>
>> 2) Please try to make at least one practical example of every single 
>> keyword. I am constantly trying to figure out how to use keywords mentioned 
>> on TW.com but don't actually have any concrete implementation to see why it 
>> would be useful. Counter examples would also be nice.
>>
>> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 7:51:01 AM UTC-8 Stobot wrote:
>>
>>> I know Jeremy's trying to not make this all name related - but not being 
>>> a developer, don't think I can contribute to that part of the conversation. 
>>> I agree that it would seem logical to use a new name with a new significant 
>>> version, though I also 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

But wikipedia is a successful brand known to everyone and with a name with 
no known bad connotations.

TiddlyWiki hasn't really taken off and will not lose significant share. In 
one of the largest english speaking countries on the planet, "Tiddly..." 
carries the connotation of "play thing" and "tiddler" is easily mistaken 
for a word meaning ... oh never mind. Let's just say, it doesn't mean 
"small fish", which is usually "Minnow" as anyone who's watched Gilligan's 
Island knows.

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 9:48:10 PM UTC-8 Charlie Veniot wrote:

> G'day all,
>
> To me, product renaming/rebranding has high risk of becoming that 
> product's kiss of death.
>
> High risk, low benefit.
>
> Take Wikipedia, for example.   Changing the name of that would be, I 
> think, a brutally bad idea.
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Charlie Veniot]

G'day all,

To me, product renaming/rebranding has high risk of becoming that product's 
kiss of death.

High risk, low benefit.

Take Wikipedia, for example.   Changing the name of that would be, I think, 
a brutally bad idea.

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Suzanne McHale]

How about "Tidwiki" - "tid" from tidbit (a small morsel). Very similiar to 
Tiddlywiki (a name I don't have any problem with, incidentally), just 
shorter, and single Tidwikis could still be Tiddlers. "Xememex" does not 
appeal; obscure and hard to remember.

On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 12:34:47 PM UTC+11 positiv...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> The uniqueness of "xememex" is nice for making sure I find the sample code 
> for just the new project. That is the only real concern I would have about 
> renaming: Making sure search engine results can be refined easily.
>
> Although I personally agree that the project title word is just a random 
> string of letters that I can copy-paste as a prefix for my search query, I 
> personally dislike the repetition of letters in xememex. Although 
> xemex.com com is already taken by a watch company, perhaps we could take 
> advantage of some other TDL like xemex.dev on which browsers now require 
> HTTPS communication.
>
> I agree wirh Stobot that 'Wiki' isn't a buzzword today and doesn't sound 
> that professional. Knowledgebase abbreviated as KB is ubiquitous. Perhaps a 
> rebrand focus could be Xememex Quine KB. This sums up where to go, why it 
> is unique, and why you would want to use it. (Thanks to Matt for the 
> suggestion.)
>
> Saying 'cards' is in the project name would be focusing on the 
> implementation details instead of the user's overall problem. Cards can 
> solve the problem, but that is just a necessay evil. An easy to update and 
> re-link KB is their end goal. Perhaps some project concept abbreviations 
> could be XM code in a QKB file?
>
> I do like the unit identity of "card" because it is unlikely to actually 
> be in the content of anyone's actual documents or code. It is easy to find 
> all such references, and isn't a sub-part of other common English words. It 
> is very short to type, which is probably my biggest gripe about the 
> 'currentTiddler' variable. It is used so often, I would really appreciate 
> 'curCard' for the next iteration.
>
> I have been going through the documentation to learn how to create a 
> working example of each individual option in TW. Just scratching the 
> surface I keep running into 'depreciated' examples. A new fork for Xememex 
> is definitely what I would desire. TWC is still being used today on old and 
> current browsers. TW5 will continue to be used 15 years from now. Applying 
> all the lessons learned to a separate project should make a clean break and 
> require the minimum of today's latest browsers' functionality. Older 
> browsers - if they must be used - will still work with the other projects.
>
> A focus on support for internationalization right out of the gate would 
> also help. Just recently, Jeremy said trying to support field names with 
> non-ASCII Unicode characters would be very complex under-the-hood. Making a 
> clean re-design will help others to write cards and metadata in their own 
> language much easier. 
>
> The hardest part of rebranding - as Mozilla well knows - is keeping the 
> current project being able to support the latest fads instead of truly 
> halting development for two years. I don't have any suggestions other than 
> deciding the new project will only focus on implementing the existing 
> TW5.1.23 features, and any new features will have to be brought in during a 
> second round of updates after the base project is released.
>
> I only have two pleadings for improvements:
>
> 1) Please include some kind of string literal escape codes so we can use [ 
> ], " ', etc. characters within filters without worrying about whether the 
> query can succeeed. It would be like the !--html comment-- tag where all 
> data inside is treated as non-code. Most people won't use these operation 
> characters in card, tag or field names. Power users should have some method 
> that consistently allows for them.
>
> 2) Please try to make at least one practical example of every single 
> keyword. I am constantly trying to figure out how to use keywords mentioned 
> on TW.com but don't actually have any concrete implementation to see why it 
> would be useful. Counter examples would also be nice.
>
> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 7:51:01 AM UTC-8 Stobot wrote:
>
>> I know Jeremy's trying to not make this all name related - but not being 
>> a developer, don't think I can contribute to that part of the conversation. 
>> I agree that it would seem logical to use a new name with a new significant 
>> version, though I also agree that development has been so healthy lately 
>> that I worry about that momentum starting because of a looming re-design on 
>> the core. 
>>
>> With that, on naming... :)
>>
>>- I agree and have experienced that the "Tiddly" / "Tiddler" naming 
>>is a barrier for me to sell others on the software - doesn't seem serious
>>- I agree that "Wiki" in general undervalues what TiddlyWiki is these 
>>days. I agree with others who consider TW more of a 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Thomas Stone]

The uniqueness of "xememex" is nice for making sure I find the sample code 
for just the new project. That is the only real concern I would have about 
renaming: Making sure search engine results can be refined easily.

Although I personally agree that the project title word is just a random 
string of letters that I can copy-paste as a prefix for my search query, I 
personally dislike the repetition of letters in xememex. Although xemex.com 
com is already taken by a watch company, perhaps we could take advantage of 
some other TDL like xemex.dev on which browsers now require HTTPS 
communication.

I agree wirh Stobot that 'Wiki' isn't a buzzword today and doesn't sound 
that professional. Knowledgebase abbreviated as KB is ubiquitous. Perhaps a 
rebrand focus could be Xememex Quine KB. This sums up where to go, why it 
is unique, and why you would want to use it. (Thanks to Matt for the 
suggestion.)

Saying 'cards' is in the project name would be focusing on the 
implementation details instead of the user's overall problem. Cards can 
solve the problem, but that is just a necessay evil. An easy to update and 
re-link KB is their end goal. Perhaps some project concept abbreviations 
could be XM code in a QKB file?

I do like the unit identity of "card" because it is unlikely to actually be 
in the content of anyone's actual documents or code. It is easy to find all 
such references, and isn't a sub-part of other common English words. It is 
very short to type, which is probably my biggest gripe about the 
'currentTiddler' variable. It is used so often, I would really appreciate 
'curCard' for the next iteration.

I have been going through the documentation to learn how to create a 
working example of each individual option in TW. Just scratching the 
surface I keep running into 'depreciated' examples. A new fork for Xememex 
is definitely what I would desire. TWC is still being used today on old and 
current browsers. TW5 will continue to be used 15 years from now. Applying 
all the lessons learned to a separate project should make a clean break and 
require the minimum of today's latest browsers' functionality. Older 
browsers - if they must be used - will still work with the other projects.

A focus on support for internationalization right out of the gate would 
also help. Just recently, Jeremy said trying to support field names with 
non-ASCII Unicode characters would be very complex under-the-hood. Making a 
clean re-design will help others to write cards and metadata in their own 
language much easier. 

The hardest part of rebranding - as Mozilla well knows - is keeping the 
current project being able to support the latest fads instead of truly 
halting development for two years. I don't have any suggestions other than 
deciding the new project will only focus on implementing the existing 
TW5.1.23 features, and any new features will have to be brought in during a 
second round of updates after the base project is released.

I only have two pleadings for improvements:

1) Please include some kind of string literal escape codes so we can use [ 
], " ', etc. characters within filters without worrying about whether the 
query can succeeed. It would be like the !--html comment-- tag where all 
data inside is treated as non-code. Most people won't use these operation 
characters in card, tag or field names. Power users should have some method 
that consistently allows for them.

2) Please try to make at least one practical example of every single 
keyword. I am constantly trying to figure out how to use keywords mentioned 
on TW.com but don't actually have any concrete implementation to see why it 
would be useful. Counter examples would also be nice.

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 7:51:01 AM UTC-8 Stobot wrote:

> I know Jeremy's trying to not make this all name related - but not being a 
> developer, don't think I can contribute to that part of the conversation. I 
> agree that it would seem logical to use a new name with a new significant 
> version, though I also agree that development has been so healthy lately 
> that I worry about that momentum starting because of a looming re-design on 
> the core. 
>
> With that, on naming... :)
>
>- I agree and have experienced that the "Tiddly" / "Tiddler" naming is 
>a barrier for me to sell others on the software - doesn't seem serious
>- I agree that "Wiki" in general undervalues what TiddlyWiki is these 
>days. I agree with others who consider TW more of a "platform". For 
> example 
>I use it as a competitor to Microsoft PowerApps.
>- I really like "card" - that's what I use when explaining TiddlyWiki 
>already and is totally self-explanatory given how it appears on screen. 
>Plays well with the various metaphors of virtual card boxes.
>- I like "memex" after reading a bit about it. I agree that one 
>concern is that it's not obvious how to pronounce it...
>   - Related - Even if I knew how to pronounce it, 

Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Stobot]

I know Jeremy's trying to not make this all name related - but not being a 
developer, don't think I can contribute to that part of the conversation. I 
agree that it would seem logical to use a new name with a new significant 
version, though I also agree that development has been so healthy lately 
that I worry about that momentum starting because of a looming re-design on 
the core. 

With that, on naming... :)

   - I agree and have experienced that the "Tiddly" / "Tiddler" naming is a 
   barrier for me to sell others on the software - doesn't seem serious
   - I agree that "Wiki" in general undervalues what TiddlyWiki is these 
   days. I agree with others who consider TW more of a "platform". For example 
   I use it as a competitor to Microsoft PowerApps.
   - I really like "card" - that's what I use when explaining TiddlyWiki 
   already and is totally self-explanatory given how it appears on screen. 
   Plays well with the various metaphors of virtual card boxes.
   - I like "memex" after reading a bit about it. I agree that one concern 
   is that it's not obvious how to pronounce it...
  - Related - Even if I knew how to pronounce it, I could tell them the 
  name and they may not know the spelling even close enough to even find 
with 
  google - which could be problematic
  - Maybe something else memex related but something that's more 
  intuitive to spell / pronounce? MemexCards, MemexDeck, MyMemex, 
  MemexPlatform, MemexPro, TheMemex
   


On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 9:58:40 AM UTC-5 Mark S. wrote:

> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 4:02:18 AM UTC-8  wrote:
>
>>
>> As you mention in a later reply, the real challenge is replacing the word 
>> tiddler. I remember trying this in Classic and it wasn't easy then and is 
>> probably even harder now with all the widget attributes etc. Which makes me 
>> wonder if this would really be the best use of our time and resources?
>>
>>
> xemes 
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 4:02:18 AM UTC-8  wrote:

>
> As you mention in a later reply, the real challenge is replacing the word 
> tiddler. I remember trying this in Classic and it wasn't easy then and is 
> probably even harder now with all the widget attributes etc. Which makes me 
> wonder if this would really be the best use of our time and resources?
>
>
xemes 

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Saq Imtiaz]

Jeremy,

In other words, I think TiddlyWiki 5 is ripe for such a thorough internal 
> overhaul that changing the names might not be as much of a practical 
> consideration as it would be if we had to maintain backwards compatibility.
>

I think this makes perfect sense. At first I was thinking we just meant 
smaller changes when discussing breaking some backward compatibility in 
5.2.x or 6.x, where a few select things might break or be different. 

However, if we truly want to use this as an opportunity to modernize and 
also revise some architectural decisions (like field definitions!), then 
indeed renaming "tiddler" becomes much easier to accomplish at the same 
time. I do think we need to start planning such a move as some of that 
early baggage is indeed weighing down further development.

Such pervasive changes also suggests the need for a clearer demarcation 
from TW5 than calling it TW5.2 or TW6 would provide. TiddlyWiki 6, in my 
opinion, would suggest it just a newer version of TiddlyWiki 5 that one can 
just upgrade to. So a product name change could easily be accomplished at 
the same time.

One other consideration, though this should not be a decisive one, is that 
recently we have been very fortunate to have a lot of momentum in terms of 
developers contributing to the core. It would be good if at all possible, 
to leverage that momentum towards this end, rather than let it be something 
that might kill that momentum. On the other hand, architectural changes and 
refactoring is often best accomplished by a single focused mind, at least 
at first. So there may not be much that can be done about it. Just knowing 
that there is a breaking version in the works will naturally subdue the 
enthusiasm to keep working on the current core, unless there is some 
assurance the work can be re-used, which might be tricky. A tentative 
timeline for the new version may also help.

These are just some of the practical considerations that come to mind, 
which I guess is my way of expressing my support for the idea of both a 
breaking change to refresh the core, as well as a rename to differentiate 
from TiddlyWiki 5.

Regards,
Saq



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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Glenn Dixon]

TiddlyWiki Classic
TiddlyWiki 5

I think you are right in that, if this was an effort to distinguish, it is 
perhaps a bit lacking. While we're at it, maybe take up the naming scheme 
that many other projects use? Everyone seems to understand that MacOS 
Catalina and MacOS Big Sur are significantly different versions of the same 
underlying OS. They also seem to understand that backwards compatibility 
has limits. This would hold true whether or not you retain a reference to 
TiddlyWiki in the product name or not.

So Mac OS "number" to Mac OS X "number" to Mac OS X "number" "name" to the 
point where now people just say "Mac OS "name" " and rarely mention the X 
or the number.

So maybe "newname" by itself to start, then "newname: versionname" where 
the version number is tracked but not part of the branding. Keep the 
numbering scheme out of it, something only developers really care about. I 
have to say that I do really see value in dropping any reference whatsoever 
to 'wiki' in the name. That would help broaden the appeal to cover memex, 
second brain, digital garden, commonplace, Zettelkasten, etc. 
On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 6:52:20 AM UTC-6 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

> As appealing as this sounds, I just don't think that as a small community 
> we have the resources to support both, unless the intention would be for 
> TiddlyWiki 5 to only receive bug fix updates. 
>
>
> I think that would be the default, yes, unless somebody wanted to pick up 
> the development more purposefully.
>
> As you mention in a later reply, the real challenge is replacing the word 
> tiddler. I remember trying this in Classic and it wasn't easy then and is 
> probably even harder now with all the widget attributes etc. Which makes me 
> wonder if this would really be the best use of our time and resources?
>
>
> That is indeed one of the critical questions.
>
> Over the years we've had consistent feedback on the name "TiddlyWiki" that 
> ranges between:
>
> * I don't care about the name, it's just a meaningless string of letters
> * I think the name is fine, it's distinctive, and has few false positives 
> when Googling
> * I think the name diminishes TiddlyWiki
> * I think the name is a thinly veiled obscenity
>
> That last category is undoubtedly a minority, but it's a very consistently 
> and forcefully expressed opinion when it does come up. I used to think that 
> view said more about the people holding it than anything else. But the 
> trouble is that I'm too close to the thing: the name "TiddlyWiki" is my 
> little piece of wordplay, and I'm attached to it. I think maybe that might 
> hold for many of us who have invested time and effort in the project. So I 
> have to pay attention to feedback that comes from a different perspective, 
> because I'm never going to be able to assume that perspective myself.
>
> The other consideration in all of this is my desire to modernise the 
> design of TW5 and establish a new baseline for backwards compatibility. 
> After 10 years, it's becoming increasingly limiting to live with some of 
> the early design decisions of TW5 (a lot of which are pretty arcane - for 
> example, "tiddlerfield" modules). I believe we would make faster and more 
> decisive progress if we lost some of that baggage.
>
> The idea of modernising the core relates to the naming change because 
> another bit of feedback that I received back in 2011-13 was that it was a 
> mistake to reuse the name TiddlyWiki for the new project. Many people felt 
> that it was unnecessarily confusing to have two distinct products with the 
> same name, and struggled with my perspective that TWC and TW5 were 
> different versions of the same thing.
>
> So, what I learned from all of the above is that names for communal things 
> are tricky. People have strong opinions because they feel they have a 
> stake. The thing that is particularly tricky is trying to change what an 
> existing name means if the previous meaning is entrenched in the community.
>
> In other words, I think TiddlyWiki 5 is ripe for such a thorough internal 
> overhaul that changing the names might not be as much of a practical 
> consideration as it would be if we had to maintain backwards compatibility.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Saq
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Jeremy Ruston]

> As appealing as this sounds, I just don't think that as a small community we 
> have the resources to support both, unless the intention would be for 
> TiddlyWiki 5 to only receive bug fix updates. 

I think that would be the default, yes, unless somebody wanted to pick up the 
development more purposefully.

> As you mention in a later reply, the real challenge is replacing the word 
> tiddler. I remember trying this in Classic and it wasn't easy then and is 
> probably even harder now with all the widget attributes etc. Which makes me 
> wonder if this would really be the best use of our time and resources?

That is indeed one of the critical questions.

Over the years we've had consistent feedback on the name "TiddlyWiki" that 
ranges between:

* I don't care about the name, it's just a meaningless string of letters
* I think the name is fine, it's distinctive, and has few false positives when 
Googling
* I think the name diminishes TiddlyWiki
* I think the name is a thinly veiled obscenity

That last category is undoubtedly a minority, but it's a very consistently and 
forcefully expressed opinion when it does come up. I used to think that view 
said more about the people holding it than anything else. But the trouble is 
that I'm too close to the thing: the name "TiddlyWiki" is my little piece of 
wordplay, and I'm attached to it. I think maybe that might hold for many of us 
who have invested time and effort in the project. So I have to pay attention to 
feedback that comes from a different perspective, because I'm never going to be 
able to assume that perspective myself.

The other consideration in all of this is my desire to modernise the design of 
TW5 and establish a new baseline for backwards compatibility. After 10 years, 
it's becoming increasingly limiting to live with some of the early design 
decisions of TW5 (a lot of which are pretty arcane - for example, 
"tiddlerfield" modules). I believe we would make faster and more decisive 
progress if we lost some of that baggage.

The idea of modernising the core relates to the naming change because another 
bit of feedback that I received back in 2011-13 was that it was a mistake to 
reuse the name TiddlyWiki for the new project. Many people felt that it was 
unnecessarily confusing to have two distinct products with the same name, and 
struggled with my perspective that TWC and TW5 were different versions of the 
same thing.

So, what I learned from all of the above is that names for communal things are 
tricky. People have strong opinions because they feel they have a stake. The 
thing that is particularly tricky is trying to change what an existing name 
means if the previous meaning is entrenched in the community.

In other words, I think TiddlyWiki 5 is ripe for such a thorough internal 
overhaul that changing the names might not be as much of a practical 
consideration as it would be if we had to maintain backwards compatibility.

Best wishes

Jeremy.


> 
> Cheers,
> Saq
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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Saq Imtiaz]

Hi Jeremy,
 

> There are other approaches. We could fork the good parts of TiddlyWiki 5.x 
> into a new project called Xememex that is less constrained by backwards 
> compatibility (eg. targeting more modern JavaScript engines). Both the 
> TiddlyWiki 5 and Xememex projects would proceed independently, allowing end 
> users to defer or avoid switching over.
>

As appealing as this sounds, I just don't think that as a small community 
we have the resources to support both, unless the intention would be for 
TiddlyWiki 5 to only receive bug fix updates. 

As you mention in a later reply, the real challenge is replacing the word 
tiddler. I remember trying this in Classic and it wasn't easy then and is 
probably even harder now with all the widget attributes etc. Which makes me 
wonder if this would really be the best use of our time and resources?

Cheers,
Saq

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Mat]

Well, then. My absolutely best proposal is:

QuineCards

It partly says what TW is but still invites for further questions and 
curiosity.
AFAICT it is unregistered.
And the round and friendly initials should make it easy to create a logo.
I think it is spot on.  
 
<:-)

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 10:54:17 AM UTC+1 Jeremy Ruston wrote:

> Since we last discussed this topic, I've been increasingly thinking that 
> we should indeed make plans to change the name.
>
> The best alternatives I've got are "xememex" for the product, and "card" 
> for the unit of information. I've had the domain xememex.com for a few 
> years and the @xememex user account.
>
> "Xememex" is of course a palindromisation of Vannevar Bush's "memex":
>
>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1945/07/as-we-may-think/303881/
>
> There are many details to consider, but I'd be interested to know people's 
> thoughts.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
> --
> Jeremy Ruston
> jer...@jermolene.com
> https://jermolene.com
>
> On 28 Dec 2020, at 09:38, TiddlyTweeter  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Ciao positiv...@gmail.com
>
> *Small footnote to my last ...*
>
> Several times I have suggested that TiddlyWiki is the ULTIMATE BRICOLAGE 
> ENGINE for computers.
>
> Immediately, with "Bricolage", though, you get the same issue as the 
> "Tiddly" language specificity. 
>
> "Bricolage" is a French activity (akin to English D.I.Y.) so not sure its 
> obvious relevance and accuracy would be any better in the end. Though when 
> you look at its meaning it is very close to what we do with TW in practice: 
> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/bricolage.
>
> Random thoughts
> TT
>
> -- 
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Hi Jeremy,

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 1:48 PM Jeremy Ruston  wrote:

> Perhaps worth clarifying that "change the name" at its simplest might mean
> renaming the current TiddlyWiki 5 project to Xememex as of a particular
> version number. We'd try to maintain backwards compatibility as we normally
> do, but just lose the terms "TiddlyWiki" and "tiddler".
>
> There are other approaches. We could fork the good parts of TiddlyWiki 5.x
> into a new project called Xememex that is less constrained by backwards
> compatibility (eg. targeting more modern JavaScript engines). Both the
> TiddlyWiki 5 and Xememex projects would proceed independently, allowing end
> users to defer or avoid switching over.
>
> If I can vote for this, I will prefer your second approach. Fork the good
parts of Tiddlywiki 5.x into a new project! I am sure, there are users who
do not like to experience any change and I believe in democracy! Keep them
happy and supported, but let targeting targeting more modern JavaScript
engines and have an agile new TW called Xememex.

I do not know the pronunciation of Xememex. How do you pronounce it and
what is the meaning?
Also, is it possible to propose other names?






> Thinking about the details that would need resolving, it's clear that the
> hard part is actually losing the word "tiddler", because we use it so
> ubiquitously for widget, attribute and variable names.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> Thank you
Mohammad




>
> --
> Jeremy Ruston
> jer...@jermolene.com
> https://jermolene.com
>
> On 28 Dec 2020, at 09:54, Jeremy Ruston  wrote:
>
> Since we last discussed this topic, I've been increasingly thinking that
> we should indeed make plans to change the name.
>
> The best alternatives I've got are "xememex" for the product, and "card"
> for the unit of information. I've had the domain xememex.com for a few
> years and the @xememex user account.
>
> "Xememex" is of course a palindromisation of Vannevar Bush's "memex":
>
>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1945/07/as-we-may-think/303881/
>
> There are many details to consider, but I'd be interested to know people's
> thoughts.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
> --
> Jeremy Ruston
> jer...@jermolene.com
> https://jermolene.com
>
> On 28 Dec 2020, at 09:38, TiddlyTweeter  wrote:
>
> 
> Ciao positiv...@gmail.com
>
> *Small footnote to my last ...*
>
> Several times I have suggested that TiddlyWiki is the ULTIMATE BRICOLAGE
> ENGINE for computers.
>
> Immediately, with "Bricolage", though, you get the same issue as the
> "Tiddly" language specificity.
>
> "Bricolage" is a French activity (akin to English D.I.Y.) so not sure its
> obvious relevance and accuracy would be any better in the end. Though when
> you look at its meaning it is very close to what we do with TW in practice:
> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/bricolage.
>
> Random thoughts
> TT
>
> --
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> 
> .
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Mohammad Rahmani]

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 12:51 PM TiddlyTweeter 
wrote:

> On Monday, 28 December 2020 at 07:14:43 UTC+1 positiv...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> The goal of renaming the project would be to push the desire for
> "smallness" of the individual unit using a more standard English word.
> Please forgive me if I am pushing anyone's buttons here. This topic was
> just on my mind. Thank you for your time.
>
> It is an interesting post. It is quite valid to query naming.
>
> "Tiddly" (small, tiny) & "Tiddler" (literally a very small fish found in
> British streams and waterways that live in shoals) can be confusing,
> particularly if you are not British.
>
> That said, I'm hazy, very hazy on what could possibly do better.
>
> IMO "TiddlyWiki" is a pretty good ASSERTION on branding. Like many brands,
> the name forces the user to delve for salience. IMO "TiddlyWiki" does
> pretty well asserting itself as it is already.
>
> The ONE obvious thing, taking TW as a whole eco-system, it really is NOT
> "tiny", it is VAST in its delivery and scope.
>
> So, how to represent that? Roughly: "From Small Pieces Huge Things Are
> Born."
>

Eric Shulman has a phrase: small tools for big ideas!  I think this is the
best description and YET the for Tiddlywiki.

>
> Just my thoughts. Though I'd be interested to hear more on potential other
> ideas.
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>
>
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Jeremy Ruston]

Perhaps worth clarifying that "change the name" at its simplest might mean 
renaming the current TiddlyWiki 5 project to Xememex as of a particular version 
number. We'd try to maintain backwards compatibility as we normally do, but 
just lose the terms "TiddlyWiki" and "tiddler".

There are other approaches. We could fork the good parts of TiddlyWiki 5.x into 
a new project called Xememex that is less constrained by backwards 
compatibility (eg. targeting more modern JavaScript engines). Both the 
TiddlyWiki 5 and Xememex projects would proceed independently, allowing end 
users to defer or avoid switching over.

Thinking about the details that would need resolving, it's clear that the hard 
part is actually losing the word "tiddler", because we use it so ubiquitously 
for widget, attribute and variable names.

Best wishes

Jeremy



--
Jeremy Ruston
jer...@jermolene.com
https://jermolene.com

> On 28 Dec 2020, at 09:54, Jeremy Ruston  wrote:
> 
> Since we last discussed this topic, I've been increasingly thinking that we 
> should indeed make plans to change the name.
> 
> The best alternatives I've got are "xememex" for the product, and "card" for 
> the unit of information. I've had the domain xememex.com for a few years and 
> the @xememex user account.
> 
> "Xememex" is of course a palindromisation of Vannevar Bush's "memex":
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1945/07/as-we-may-think/303881/
> 
> There are many details to consider, but I'd be interested to know people's 
> thoughts.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> --
> Jeremy Ruston
> jer...@jermolene.com
> https://jermolene.com
> 
>>> On 28 Dec 2020, at 09:38, TiddlyTweeter  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> Ciao positiv...@gmail.com
>> 
>> Small footnote to my last ...
>> 
>> Several times I have suggested that TiddlyWiki is the ULTIMATE BRICOLAGE 
>> ENGINE for computers.
>> 
>> Immediately, with "Bricolage", though, you get the same issue as the 
>> "Tiddly" language specificity. 
>> 
>> "Bricolage" is a French activity (akin to English D.I.Y.) so not sure its 
>> obvious relevance and accuracy would be any better in the end. Though when 
>> you look at its meaning it is very close to what we do with TW in practice: 
>> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/bricolage.
>> 
>> Random thoughts
>> TT
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "TiddlyWiki" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/5a028133-83b9-475a-9b6e-2c3f773363d8n%40googlegroups.com.

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Jeremy Ruston]

Since we last discussed this topic, I've been increasingly thinking that we 
should indeed make plans to change the name.

The best alternatives I've got are "xememex" for the product, and "card" for 
the unit of information. I've had the domain xememex.com for a few years and 
the @xememex user account.

"Xememex" is of course a palindromisation of Vannevar Bush's "memex":

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1945/07/as-we-may-think/303881/

There are many details to consider, but I'd be interested to know people's 
thoughts.

Best wishes

Jeremy

--
Jeremy Ruston
jer...@jermolene.com
https://jermolene.com

> On 28 Dec 2020, at 09:38, TiddlyTweeter  wrote:
> 
> 
> Ciao positiv...@gmail.com
> 
> Small footnote to my last ...
> 
> Several times I have suggested that TiddlyWiki is the ULTIMATE BRICOLAGE 
> ENGINE for computers.
> 
> Immediately, with "Bricolage", though, you get the same issue as the "Tiddly" 
> language specificity. 
> 
> "Bricolage" is a French activity (akin to English D.I.Y.) so not sure its 
> obvious relevance and accuracy would be any better in the end. Though when 
> you look at its meaning it is very close to what we do with TW in practice: 
> https://www.dictionary.com/browse/bricolage.
> 
> Random thoughts
> TT
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "TiddlyWiki" group.
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