Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Fine be that way. Personally I always *write* my dates as dd MMM yy format anyway, which can be universal, since the MMM is alphabetic and therefore can't be mistaken for anything else. It's just hard to get my clients to appreciate that universality when their customers are all within a 50 mile radius. -Original Message- From: Kevin King To: U2 Users List Sent: Mon, Dec 16, 2013 6:29 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Well now... this is getting interesting. Wol has a very valid point. Assumptions can be deadly. Hence why I called Will out on his. It's minor in the sense of this dialogue, but if when customers are putting up money for the end result assumptions and misunderstanding can be the difference between getting the gig or getting the boot. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Bill Haskett wrote: > Another option, which I always have done, is to iconv dates in "15 Jan > 2013" format. This always works regardless of which date method is > selected. > > Don't know why "yanks" do things that irritate you. But then, most people > do things that irritate someone. As Mark Brown always points out; the > trouble with standards is everybody has one. This seems more of an issue > than what "yanks" do. :-) > > Bill > Untitled Page > > > > - Original Message - > *From:* antli...@youngman.org.uk > *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > *Date:* 12/16/2013 6:00 PM > *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > On 17/12/2013 00:17, Wjhonson wrote: >> >>> What is the last Thursday of the current month. >>> >>> Current Date minus Current Day of Month number plus 1 puts you on the >>> first of the current month >>> Or you could just Oconv d2/ and replace the middle number with 01 with >>> Iconv that. >>> >> >> Actually, I think that'll screw up pretty spectacularly! OCONV(@TODAY, >> "D2") gives me "17/12/13". If I replace the middle number (or if Kevin >> replaced the middle number) we'd both end up somewhere in January! Why do >> you Yanks put the least significant number in the middle? That's crazy! >> >> If you want the first of the month, the easiest way to do it is >> >> FIRST = "01/":OCONV(@TODAY,"D2[M,Y]") >> >> (if I've remembered my syntax correctly). Then to get that into internal >> format >> >> I_FIRST = ICONV(FIRST, "D2DMY") >> >> You should NEVER assume that dates are in the format you expect, unless >> you are in control (which you aren't, here, seeing as you've messed up >> pretty spectacularly :-) >> >> Cheers, >> Wol >> >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Of course, one normally puts dates together like that because left justification works, and we all know how we're always limited by someone elses standards. :-) Bill - Original Message - *From:* james.mcgo...@bankofthewest.com *To:* U2 Users List *Date:* 12/16/2013 6:22 PM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions There's an xkcd for everthing: http://xkcd.com/1179/ -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 6:13 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Another option, which I always have done, is to iconv dates in "15 Jan 2013" format. This always works regardless of which date method is selected. Don't know why "yanks" do things that irritate you. But then, most people do things that irritate someone. As Mark Brown always points out; the trouble with standards is everybody has one. This seems more of an issue than what "yanks" do. :-) Bill Untitled Page - Original Message - *From:* antli...@youngman.org.uk *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 12/16/2013 6:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions On 17/12/2013 00:17, Wjhonson wrote: What is the last Thursday of the current month. Current Date minus Current Day of Month number plus 1 puts you on the first of the current month Or you could just Oconv d2/ and replace the middle number with 01 with Iconv that. Actually, I think that'll screw up pretty spectacularly! OCONV(@TODAY, "D2") gives me "17/12/13". If I replace the middle number (or if Kevin replaced the middle number) we'd both end up somewhere in January! Why do you Yanks put the least significant number in the middle? That's crazy! If you want the first of the month, the easiest way to do it is FIRST = "01/":OCONV(@TODAY,"D2[M,Y]") (if I've remembered my syntax correctly). Then to get that into internal format I_FIRST = ICONV(FIRST, "D2DMY") You should NEVER assume that dates are in the format you expect, unless you are in control (which you aren't, here, seeing as you've messed up pretty spectacularly :-) Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users - IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Well now... this is getting interesting. Wol has a very valid point. Assumptions can be deadly. Hence why I called Will out on his. It's minor in the sense of this dialogue, but if when customers are putting up money for the end result assumptions and misunderstanding can be the difference between getting the gig or getting the boot. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Bill Haskett wrote: > Another option, which I always have done, is to iconv dates in "15 Jan > 2013" format. This always works regardless of which date method is > selected. > > Don't know why "yanks" do things that irritate you. But then, most people > do things that irritate someone. As Mark Brown always points out; the > trouble with standards is everybody has one. This seems more of an issue > than what "yanks" do. :-) > > Bill > Untitled Page > > > > - Original Message - > *From:* antli...@youngman.org.uk > *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > *Date:* 12/16/2013 6:00 PM > *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > On 17/12/2013 00:17, Wjhonson wrote: >> >>> What is the last Thursday of the current month. >>> >>> Current Date minus Current Day of Month number plus 1 puts you on the >>> first of the current month >>> Or you could just Oconv d2/ and replace the middle number with 01 with >>> Iconv that. >>> >> >> Actually, I think that'll screw up pretty spectacularly! OCONV(@TODAY, >> "D2") gives me "17/12/13". If I replace the middle number (or if Kevin >> replaced the middle number) we'd both end up somewhere in January! Why do >> you Yanks put the least significant number in the middle? That's crazy! >> >> If you want the first of the month, the easiest way to do it is >> >> FIRST = "01/":OCONV(@TODAY,"D2[M,Y]") >> >> (if I've remembered my syntax correctly). Then to get that into internal >> format >> >> I_FIRST = ICONV(FIRST, "D2DMY") >> >> You should NEVER assume that dates are in the format you expect, unless >> you are in control (which you aren't, here, seeing as you've messed up >> pretty spectacularly :-) >> >> Cheers, >> Wol >> >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
There's an xkcd for everthing: http://xkcd.com/1179/ -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 6:13 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Another option, which I always have done, is to iconv dates in "15 Jan 2013" format. This always works regardless of which date method is selected. Don't know why "yanks" do things that irritate you. But then, most people do things that irritate someone. As Mark Brown always points out; the trouble with standards is everybody has one. This seems more of an issue than what "yanks" do. :-) Bill Untitled Page - Original Message - *From:* antli...@youngman.org.uk *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 12/16/2013 6:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > On 17/12/2013 00:17, Wjhonson wrote: >> What is the last Thursday of the current month. >> >> Current Date minus Current Day of Month number plus 1 puts you on the >> first of the current month Or you could just Oconv d2/ and replace >> the middle number with 01 with Iconv that. > > Actually, I think that'll screw up pretty spectacularly! OCONV(@TODAY, > "D2") gives me "17/12/13". If I replace the middle number (or if Kevin > replaced the middle number) we'd both end up somewhere in January! Why > do you Yanks put the least significant number in the middle? That's > crazy! > > If you want the first of the month, the easiest way to do it is > > FIRST = "01/":OCONV(@TODAY,"D2[M,Y]") > > (if I've remembered my syntax correctly). Then to get that into > internal format > > I_FIRST = ICONV(FIRST, "D2DMY") > > You should NEVER assume that dates are in the format you expect, > unless you are in control (which you aren't, here, seeing as you've > messed up pretty spectacularly :-) > > Cheers, > Wol > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users - IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Another option, which I always have done, is to iconv dates in "15 Jan 2013" format. This always works regardless of which date method is selected. Don't know why "yanks" do things that irritate you. But then, most people do things that irritate someone. As Mark Brown always points out; the trouble with standards is everybody has one. This seems more of an issue than what "yanks" do. :-) Bill Untitled Page - Original Message - *From:* antli...@youngman.org.uk *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 12/16/2013 6:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions On 17/12/2013 00:17, Wjhonson wrote: What is the last Thursday of the current month. Current Date minus Current Day of Month number plus 1 puts you on the first of the current month Or you could just Oconv d2/ and replace the middle number with 01 with Iconv that. Actually, I think that'll screw up pretty spectacularly! OCONV(@TODAY, "D2") gives me "17/12/13". If I replace the middle number (or if Kevin replaced the middle number) we'd both end up somewhere in January! Why do you Yanks put the least significant number in the middle? That's crazy! If you want the first of the month, the easiest way to do it is FIRST = "01/":OCONV(@TODAY,"D2[M,Y]") (if I've remembered my syntax correctly). Then to get that into internal format I_FIRST = ICONV(FIRST, "D2DMY") You should NEVER assume that dates are in the format you expect, unless you are in control (which you aren't, here, seeing as you've messed up pretty spectacularly :-) Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Nothing exists outside of the USA. -Original Message- From: Anthonys Lists To: u2-users Sent: Mon, Dec 16, 2013 6:00 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions On 17/12/2013 00:17, Wjhonson wrote: > What is the last Thursday of the current month. > > Current Date minus Current Day of Month number plus 1 puts you on the first > of the current month > Or you could just Oconv d2/ and replace the middle number with 01 with Iconv that. Actually, I think that'll screw up pretty spectacularly! OCONV(@TODAY, "D2") gives me "17/12/13". If I replace the middle number (or if Kevin replaced the middle number) we'd both end up somewhere in January! Why do you Yanks put the least significant number in the middle? That's crazy! If you want the first of the month, the easiest way to do it is FIRST = "01/":OCONV(@TODAY,"D2[M,Y]") (if I've remembered my syntax correctly). Then to get that into internal format I_FIRST = ICONV(FIRST, "D2DMY") You should NEVER assume that dates are in the format you expect, unless you are in control (which you aren't, here, seeing as you've messed up pretty spectacularly :-) Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
On 16/12/2013 23:42, Robert Frailey wrote: > Some of the biggest mistakes you made. Corrupted the first install of Exchange, messed up all the right but made a backup bgefore I did it, saved the day. What's really annoying is when the "experts" mess up - especially when they were instructed not to! I set up an Exchange server, but my manager got a consultant in to redo it. We had a user, "ExchangeAdmin", for precisely that task. So what did the consultant do (despite, as I say, being told not to)? He used "Administrator" as the Exchange admin id. Dunno if they've changed it, but it always used to be "re-install Exchange if you change the admin password". Then the MD sacked out network administrator and demanded we changed all the master passwords ... cue chaos as Exchange broke and had to be rebuilt ... Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
On 17/12/2013 00:17, Wjhonson wrote: What is the last Thursday of the current month. Current Date minus Current Day of Month number plus 1 puts you on the first of the current month Or you could just Oconv d2/ and replace the middle number with 01 with Iconv that. Actually, I think that'll screw up pretty spectacularly! OCONV(@TODAY, "D2") gives me "17/12/13". If I replace the middle number (or if Kevin replaced the middle number) we'd both end up somewhere in January! Why do you Yanks put the least significant number in the middle? That's crazy! If you want the first of the month, the easiest way to do it is FIRST = "01/":OCONV(@TODAY,"D2[M,Y]") (if I've remembered my syntax correctly). Then to get that into internal format I_FIRST = ICONV(FIRST, "D2DMY") You should NEVER assume that dates are in the format you expect, unless you are in control (which you aren't, here, seeing as you've messed up pretty spectacularly :-) Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Replace "current date" with "Any date"
The logic is exactly the same
-Original Message-
From: Kevin King
To: U2 Users List
Sent: Mon, Dec 16, 2013 4:48 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Except, Will, the question did not ask for "current month". Rather it asked
for "a month". Similar, yes, but a different request.
On Monday, December 16, 2013, Wjhonson wrote:
>
> What is the last Thursday of the current month.
>
> Current Date minus Current Day of Month number plus 1 puts you on the
> first of the current month
> Or you could just Oconv d2/ and replace the middle number with 01 with
> Iconv that.
>
> Now take that internal date and add 32, this will *always* put you exactly
> into the next month somewhere.
> Now oconv that date D2/ and replace the middle number with 01 which will
> always put on the first of "next month"
> Now if the DOW number is larger than Thursday subtract the difference
> If its less than Thursday subtract that number and an extra 2 to get to
> last Thursday
>
>
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Daniel McGrath >
> To: U2 Users List >
> Sent: Mon, Dec 16, 2013 2:55 pm
> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
>
>
> Build an API to Mechanical Turk.
>
> neededDate = Mech_Turk("In /mm/dd format, what is the last
> Thursday of
> ":month:" ":year)
>
> Hmmm - I guess that's why I don't code anymore ;)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
> u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org]
> On Behalf Of Kevin King
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 3:22 PM
> To: U2 Users List
> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
>
> Asking the list...I'd label that as "resourceful". So yeah, that's a
> positive.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Woodward, Bob
> wrote:
>
> > Maybe it's a good thing you're not interviewing me, Kevin. My
> > immediate answer would be "I don't know. Let me check the
> > documentation and get back to you." I've never had to do anything
> > like that so it's not something I'd know off the top of my head. I'm
> > sure there's probably and OCONV format that would get me started but.
> >
> > Oh! I know! I'd as this list!Does that count?
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
> > [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King
> > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:15 AM
> > To: U2 Users List
> > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
> >
> > David, I've used many of these questions in the past but where it fell
> > down was that it didn't give any real picture of technical ability.
> > The one question I've been using lately to assess technical thinking
> > is "how would you calculate the last Thursday in a month?" The answers
> > have been everywhere from accurate to sheer ridiculous. The unexpected
> > takeaway from this question is that it has helped to identify people
> > who simply want to answer quickly without thinking - not a good trait
> > unless the answer is right and to date that's happened a total of zero
> > times - vs people who think first and then give a reasoned response.
> >
> > I've just found it too easy for people to stretch the truth when
> > explaining their technical ability, so I'm asking questions intended
> > to give some evidence.
> >
> > On Saturday, December 14, 2013, David Sharp wrote:
> >
> > > Here is something I have used:
> > > What single project
> > > or task would you consider the most significant accomplishment in
> > > your
> >
> > > career so far?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *
> > > Can you give me a detailed overview of the accomplishment?
> > >
> > > *
> > > Tell me about the company, your title, your position, your role, and
> > > the team involved.
> > >
> > > *
> > > What were the actual results achieved?
> > >
> > > *
> > > When did it take place and how long did the project take.
> > >
> > > *
> > > Why you were chosen?
> > >
> > > *
> > > What were the 3-4 biggest challenges you faced and how did you deal
> > > with them?
> > >
> > > *
> > > Where did you go the extra mile or take the initiative?
> > >
> > > *
> > > Walk me through the plan, how you managed to it, and if it was
> > > successful.
> > >
> > > *
> > > Describe the environment and resources.
> > >
> > > *
> > > Describe your manager's style and whether you liked it or not.
> > >
> > > *
> > > Describe the technical skills needed to accomplish the objective and
> > > how they were used.
> > >
> > > *
> > > Some of the biggest mistakes you made.
> > >
> > > *
> > > Aspects of the
___
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U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
___
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U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
This would work for the last of the previous month
But I also needed to consult the manual for the correct date conversions...
Get internal date for 1st of current month.
Subtract 1 gets you internal end date of previous month
Loop until numeric day of week = 4 (assuming Monday is 1)
Subtract 1 from internal end date of previous month
Repeat
e.g.
* Date format is DD/MM/
CurrentMonth = oconv(date(), 'DM')
CurrentYear = oconv(date(), 'DY4')
InternalFirstThisMonth = iconv('1/':CurrentMonth:'/':CurrentYear, 'D4/')
InternalLastPreviousMonth = InternalFirstThisMonth - 1
loop
IsThisThursday = (oconv(InternalLastPreviousMonth, 'DW') = 4)
until IsThisThursday do
InternalLastPreviousMonth -= 1
repeat
if IsThisThursday then crt oconv(InternalLastPreviousMonth, 'D4')
Peter Cheney
Ultracs Developer
t 07 3017 8837 | f 07 3002 8400
e peter.che...@firstmac.com.au
w firstmac.com.au
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: Tuesday, 17 December 2013 10:17
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
What is the last Thursday of the current month.
Current Date minus Current Day of Month number plus 1 puts you on the first of
the current month Or you could just Oconv d2/ and replace the middle number
with 01 with Iconv that.
Now take that internal date and add 32, this will *always* put you exactly into
the next month somewhere.
Now oconv that date D2/ and replace the middle number with 01 which will always
put on the first of "next month"
Now if the DOW number is larger than Thursday subtract the difference If its
less than Thursday subtract that number and an extra 2 to get to last Thursday
-Original Message-
From: Daniel McGrath
To: U2 Users List
Sent: Mon, Dec 16, 2013 2:55 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Build an API to Mechanical Turk.
neededDate = Mech_Turk("In /mm/dd format, what is the last Thursday
of ":month:" ":year)
Hmmm - I guess that's why I don't code anymore ;)
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org]
On Behalf Of Kevin King
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 3:22 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Asking the list...I'd label that as "resourceful". So yeah, that's a positive.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Woodward, Bob
wrote:
> Maybe it's a good thing you're not interviewing me, Kevin. My
> immediate answer would be "I don't know. Let me check the
> documentation and get back to you." I've never had to do anything
> like that so it's not something I'd know off the top of my head. I'm
> sure there's probably and OCONV format that would get me started but.
>
> Oh! I know! I'd as this list!Does that count?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
> [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:15 AM
> To: U2 Users List
> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
>
> David, I've used many of these questions in the past but where it fell
> down was that it didn't give any real picture of technical ability.
> The one question I've been using lately to assess technical thinking
> is "how would you calculate the last Thursday in a month?" The answers
> have been everywhere from accurate to sheer ridiculous. The unexpected
> takeaway from this question is that it has helped to identify people
> who simply want to answer quickly without thinking - not a good trait
> unless the answer is right and to date that's happened a total of zero
> times - vs people who think first and then give a reasoned response.
>
> I've just found it too easy for people to stretch the truth when
> explaining their technical ability, so I'm asking questions intended
> to give some evidence.
>
> On Saturday, December 14, 2013, David Sharp wrote:
>
> > Here is something I have used:
> > What single project
> > or task would you consider the most significant accomplishment in
> > your
>
> > career so far?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> > Can you give me a detailed overview of the accomplishment?
> >
> > *
> > Tell me about the company, your title, your position, your role, and
> > the team involved.
> >
> > *
> > What were the actual results achieved?
> >
> > *
> > When did it take place and how long did the project take.
> >
> > *
> > Why you were chosen?
> >
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Except, Will, the question did not ask for "current month". Rather it asked
for "a month". Similar, yes, but a different request.
On Monday, December 16, 2013, Wjhonson wrote:
>
> What is the last Thursday of the current month.
>
> Current Date minus Current Day of Month number plus 1 puts you on the
> first of the current month
> Or you could just Oconv d2/ and replace the middle number with 01 with
> Iconv that.
>
> Now take that internal date and add 32, this will *always* put you exactly
> into the next month somewhere.
> Now oconv that date D2/ and replace the middle number with 01 which will
> always put on the first of "next month"
> Now if the DOW number is larger than Thursday subtract the difference
> If its less than Thursday subtract that number and an extra 2 to get to
> last Thursday
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Daniel McGrath >
> To: U2 Users List >
> Sent: Mon, Dec 16, 2013 2:55 pm
> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
>
>
> Build an API to Mechanical Turk.
>
> neededDate = Mech_Turk("In /mm/dd format, what is the last
> Thursday of
> ":month:" ":year)
>
> Hmmm - I guess that's why I don't code anymore ;)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:
> u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org]
> On Behalf Of Kevin King
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 3:22 PM
> To: U2 Users List
> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
>
> Asking the list...I'd label that as "resourceful". So yeah, that's a
> positive.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Woodward, Bob
> wrote:
>
> > Maybe it's a good thing you're not interviewing me, Kevin. My
> > immediate answer would be "I don't know. Let me check the
> > documentation and get back to you." I've never had to do anything
> > like that so it's not something I'd know off the top of my head. I'm
> > sure there's probably and OCONV format that would get me started but.
> >
> > Oh! I know! I'd as this list!Does that count?
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
> > [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King
> > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:15 AM
> > To: U2 Users List
> > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
> >
> > David, I've used many of these questions in the past but where it fell
> > down was that it didn't give any real picture of technical ability.
> > The one question I've been using lately to assess technical thinking
> > is "how would you calculate the last Thursday in a month?" The answers
> > have been everywhere from accurate to sheer ridiculous. The unexpected
> > takeaway from this question is that it has helped to identify people
> > who simply want to answer quickly without thinking - not a good trait
> > unless the answer is right and to date that's happened a total of zero
> > times - vs people who think first and then give a reasoned response.
> >
> > I've just found it too easy for people to stretch the truth when
> > explaining their technical ability, so I'm asking questions intended
> > to give some evidence.
> >
> > On Saturday, December 14, 2013, David Sharp wrote:
> >
> > > Here is something I have used:
> > > What single project
> > > or task would you consider the most significant accomplishment in
> > > your
> >
> > > career so far?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *
> > > Can you give me a detailed overview of the accomplishment?
> > >
> > > *
> > > Tell me about the company, your title, your position, your role, and
> > > the team involved.
> > >
> > > *
> > > What were the actual results achieved?
> > >
> > > *
> > > When did it take place and how long did the project take.
> > >
> > > *
> > > Why you were chosen?
> > >
> > > *
> > > What were the 3-4 biggest challenges you faced and how did you deal
> > > with them?
> > >
> > > *
> > > Where did you go the extra mile or take the initiative?
> > >
> > > *
> > > Walk me through the plan, how you managed to it, and if it was
> > > successful.
> > >
> > > *
> > > Describe the environment and resources.
> > >
> > > *
> > > Describe your manager's style and whether you liked it or not.
> > >
> > > *
> > > Describe the technical skills needed to accomplish the objective and
> > > how they were used.
> > >
> > > *
> > > Some of the biggest mistakes you made.
> > >
> > > *
> > > Aspects of the
___
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Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
What is the last Thursday of the current month.
Current Date minus Current Day of Month number plus 1 puts you on the first of
the current month
Or you could just Oconv d2/ and replace the middle number with 01 with Iconv
that.
Now take that internal date and add 32, this will *always* put you exactly into
the next month somewhere.
Now oconv that date D2/ and replace the middle number with 01 which will always
put on the first of "next month"
Now if the DOW number is larger than Thursday subtract the difference
If its less than Thursday subtract that number and an extra 2 to get to last
Thursday
-Original Message-
From: Daniel McGrath
To: U2 Users List
Sent: Mon, Dec 16, 2013 2:55 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Build an API to Mechanical Turk.
neededDate = Mech_Turk("In /mm/dd format, what is the last Thursday
of
":month:" ":year)
Hmmm - I guess that's why I don't code anymore ;)
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org]
On Behalf Of Kevin King
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 3:22 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Asking the list...I'd label that as "resourceful". So yeah, that's a positive.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Woodward, Bob
wrote:
> Maybe it's a good thing you're not interviewing me, Kevin. My
> immediate answer would be "I don't know. Let me check the
> documentation and get back to you." I've never had to do anything
> like that so it's not something I'd know off the top of my head. I'm
> sure there's probably and OCONV format that would get me started but.
>
> Oh! I know! I'd as this list!Does that count?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
> [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:15 AM
> To: U2 Users List
> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
>
> David, I've used many of these questions in the past but where it fell
> down was that it didn't give any real picture of technical ability.
> The one question I've been using lately to assess technical thinking
> is "how would you calculate the last Thursday in a month?" The answers
> have been everywhere from accurate to sheer ridiculous. The unexpected
> takeaway from this question is that it has helped to identify people
> who simply want to answer quickly without thinking - not a good trait
> unless the answer is right and to date that's happened a total of zero
> times - vs people who think first and then give a reasoned response.
>
> I've just found it too easy for people to stretch the truth when
> explaining their technical ability, so I'm asking questions intended
> to give some evidence.
>
> On Saturday, December 14, 2013, David Sharp wrote:
>
> > Here is something I have used:
> > What single project
> > or task would you consider the most significant accomplishment in
> > your
>
> > career so far?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> > Can you give me a detailed overview of the accomplishment?
> >
> > *
> > Tell me about the company, your title, your position, your role, and
> > the team involved.
> >
> > *
> > What were the actual results achieved?
> >
> > *
> > When did it take place and how long did the project take.
> >
> > *
> > Why you were chosen?
> >
> > *
> > What were the 3-4 biggest challenges you faced and how did you deal
> > with them?
> >
> > *
> > Where did you go the extra mile or take the initiative?
> >
> > *
> > Walk me through the plan, how you managed to it, and if it was
> > successful.
> >
> > *
> > Describe the environment and resources.
> >
> > *
> > Describe your manager's style and whether you liked it or not.
> >
> > *
> > Describe the technical skills needed to accomplish the objective and
> > how they were used.
> >
> > *
> > Some of the biggest mistakes you made.
> >
> > *
> > Aspects of the project you truly enjoyed.
> >
> > *
> > Aspects you didn't especially care about and how you handled them.
> >
> > *
> > How you managed and influenced other, with lots of examples.
> >
> > *
> > How you changed and grew as a person.
> >
> > *
> > What you would do differently if you could do it again.
> >
> > *
> > What type of formal recognition did your receive?
&g
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I can answer this easily > What single project or task would you consider the most significant > accomplishment in your career so far? Building a Microsoft network in Australia from scratch and VPN'ing it into Midvale, Utah for access to the ERP Unidata database > > Can you give me a detailed overview of the accomplishment? A) Plan the Microsoft network for 10 workstations including MS Exchange, MS office, Windows 8, Rocket Wintegrate Scope out international internet provider with stable 2 to 10 mb access to USA Figure into the mix 220vac for all devices. Lock down domain name for exchange server Order hardware and software B) Set a work area aside in the USA plant Assemble the server MS Windows Server 2012 Program the router to an existing unused public ip address for testing and patches Setup Domain and users on the server Install MS Exchange 2013 Point local public ip address dns mx record to the new router and route to exchange Setup workstations Install MS Office Install wintegrate Temp build vpn tunnel from sub network to internal network and test access to Unidata database C) Package up nice and neat and ship to Australia, this portion of project too one week D) Fly to Australia and setup network E) Unpack hardware and setup offices Wire network, workstations, printers Reprogramm router for new ip addresses Repoint dns to new public ip addresses Repoint Windows Server 2012 dns Wait for DNS replication across the web to complete ( 24 hours) Test exchange incomming and outgoing transports. Login users Test Outlook Test connectivity across secure vpn to USA ERP Unidata database test printing for USA Unidata to the Australia office printer Train Users on network. F) Go home > Tell me about the company, your title, your position, your role, and > the team involved. IS Manager Know it all Determine IS stratagy Build and maintain the network Build better mouse traps > What were the actual results achieved? Aside from the planning, entire network was built and installed in two three weeks All tasks were completed > When did it take place and how long did the project take. Last week Two months in planning three weeks to implement > Why you were chosen? Already built two other international networks in the last 18 years > What were the 3-4 biggest challenges you faced and how did you deal > with them? Never install Windows Server 2012 or Exchange 2013 before Never created a master domain from scratch, just administrated them. Programming the Cisco 887 router for private internet acess for the workstations and secure vpn tunnel connection to the USA > Where did you go the extra mile or take the initiative? Learned and implemented Exchange 2013 > Walk me through the plan, how you managed to it, and if it was > successful. The plan was detailed above. Completely successful, failure is not an option. > Describe the environment and resources. International Internet 220vac > * > Describe your manager's style and whether you liked it or not. My manager is my CEO I follow thru on all my projects > Describe the technical skills needed to accomplish the objective and > how they were used. Cisco router configuration Cisco secure vpn tunnel configuration Windows server 2012 installation Windows exchange 2013 installation Windows domain controller setup Windows domain login scripts ip addressing conventions dns setup > Some of the biggest mistakes you made. Corrupted the first install of Exchange, messed up all the right but made a backup bgefore I did it, saved the day. Corrupted the Microsoft exchange certificate, could not log into MS Exchange administration but fixed it through IIS Did not setup the outgoing mail connector proper, took a while to find my error. > Aspects of the project you truly enjoyed. The pressure to complete within my alloted time frame > Aspects you didn't especially care about and how you handled them. Getting Australia to give me a stable internet connection, bugged them a lot. 18hour flight to australia, slept > How you managed and influenced other, with lots of examples. Managed Internet providers Managed hardware providers Patience and knowledge of exactly what I need and conveying that to my suppliers > How you changed and grew as a person. Cann successfull add Microsoft Windows server 2012 and MS Exchange 2013 installation and configuration to my knowledge base > What you would do differently if you could do it again. Increase my installation window to two weeks at the remote site. > What type of formal recognition did your receive? Appreciation from my CEO I completed another task It's all fun and games Robert - Original Message - From: "Kevin King" To: "U2 Users List" Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Asking the list...I'd
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Build an API to Mechanical Turk.
neededDate = Mech_Turk("In /mm/dd format, what is the last Thursday
of ":month:" ":year)
Hmmm - I guess that's why I don't code anymore ;)
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 3:22 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Asking the list...I'd label that as "resourceful". So yeah, that's a positive.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Woodward, Bob
wrote:
> Maybe it's a good thing you're not interviewing me, Kevin. My
> immediate answer would be "I don't know. Let me check the
> documentation and get back to you." I've never had to do anything
> like that so it's not something I'd know off the top of my head. I'm
> sure there's probably and OCONV format that would get me started but.
>
> Oh! I know! I'd as this list!Does that count?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
> [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:15 AM
> To: U2 Users List
> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
>
> David, I've used many of these questions in the past but where it fell
> down was that it didn't give any real picture of technical ability.
> The one question I've been using lately to assess technical thinking
> is "how would you calculate the last Thursday in a month?" The answers
> have been everywhere from accurate to sheer ridiculous. The unexpected
> takeaway from this question is that it has helped to identify people
> who simply want to answer quickly without thinking - not a good trait
> unless the answer is right and to date that's happened a total of zero
> times - vs people who think first and then give a reasoned response.
>
> I've just found it too easy for people to stretch the truth when
> explaining their technical ability, so I'm asking questions intended
> to give some evidence.
>
> On Saturday, December 14, 2013, David Sharp wrote:
>
> > Here is something I have used:
> > What single project
> > or task would you consider the most significant accomplishment in
> > your
>
> > career so far?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> > Can you give me a detailed overview of the accomplishment?
> >
> > *
> > Tell me about the company, your title, your position, your role, and
> > the team involved.
> >
> > *
> > What were the actual results achieved?
> >
> > *
> > When did it take place and how long did the project take.
> >
> > *
> > Why you were chosen?
> >
> > *
> > What were the 3-4 biggest challenges you faced and how did you deal
> > with them?
> >
> > *
> > Where did you go the extra mile or take the initiative?
> >
> > *
> > Walk me through the plan, how you managed to it, and if it was
> > successful.
> >
> > *
> > Describe the environment and resources.
> >
> > *
> > Describe your manager's style and whether you liked it or not.
> >
> > *
> > Describe the technical skills needed to accomplish the objective and
> > how they were used.
> >
> > *
> > Some of the biggest mistakes you made.
> >
> > *
> > Aspects of the project you truly enjoyed.
> >
> > *
> > Aspects you didn't especially care about and how you handled them.
> >
> > *
> > How you managed and influenced other, with lots of examples.
> >
> > *
> > How you changed and grew as a person.
> >
> > *
> > What you would do differently if you could do it again.
> >
> > *
> > What type of formal recognition did your receive?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > David Sharp
> > > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 12:27:18 -0800
> > > From: i...@keyway.net
> > > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
> > >
> > > Please email me in regards to your ads. I am currently in between
> > > contracts/assignments/projects and looking for my next assignment.
> > > Multivalue languages I have been programming in:
> > >
> > > * CACHE (language: MV BASIC)
> > > * INFORMATION (language: INFO/BASIC)
> > > * jBASE (language: jBC, jBASE BASIC, jBASIC)
> > > * MENTOR System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC)
> > > * MVENTERPRIS
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Asking the list...I'd label that as "resourceful". So yeah, that's a positive. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Woodward, Bob wrote: > Maybe it's a good thing you're not interviewing me, Kevin. My immediate > answer would be "I don't know. Let me check the documentation and get > back to you." I've never had to do anything like that so it's not > something I'd know off the top of my head. I'm sure there's probably > and OCONV format that would get me started but. > > Oh! I know! I'd as this list!Does that count? > > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org > [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:15 AM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > David, I've used many of these questions in the past but where it fell > down was that it didn't give any real picture of technical ability. The > one question I've been using lately to assess technical thinking is "how > would you calculate the last Thursday in a month?" The answers have been > everywhere from accurate to sheer ridiculous. The unexpected takeaway > from this question is that it has helped to identify people who simply > want to answer quickly without thinking - not a good trait unless the > answer is right and to date that's happened a total of zero times - vs > people who think first and then give a reasoned response. > > I've just found it too easy for people to stretch the truth when > explaining their technical ability, so I'm asking questions intended to > give some evidence. > > On Saturday, December 14, 2013, David Sharp wrote: > > > Here is something I have used: > > What single project > > or task would you consider the most significant accomplishment in your > > > career so far? > > > > > > > > > > * > > Can you give me a detailed overview of the accomplishment? > > > > * > > Tell me about the company, your title, your position, your role, and > > the team involved. > > > > * > > What were the actual results achieved? > > > > * > > When did it take place and how long did the project take. > > > > * > > Why you were chosen? > > > > * > > What were the 3-4 biggest challenges you faced and how did you deal > > with them? > > > > * > > Where did you go the extra mile or take the initiative? > > > > * > > Walk me through the plan, how you managed to it, and if it was > > successful. > > > > * > > Describe the environment and resources. > > > > * > > Describe your manager's style and whether you liked it or not. > > > > * > > Describe the technical skills needed to accomplish the objective and > > how they were used. > > > > * > > Some of the biggest mistakes you made. > > > > * > > Aspects of the project you truly enjoyed. > > > > * > > Aspects you didn't especially care about and how you handled them. > > > > * > > How you managed and influenced other, with lots of examples. > > > > * > > How you changed and grew as a person. > > > > * > > What you would do differently if you could do it again. > > > > * > > What type of formal recognition did your receive? > > > > > > Regards, > > David Sharp > > > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 12:27:18 -0800 > > > From: i...@keyway.net > > > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > > > > Please email me in regards to your ads. I am currently in between > > > contracts/assignments/projects and looking for my next assignment. > > > Multivalue languages I have been programming in: > > > > > > * CACHE (language: MV BASIC) > > > * INFORMATION (language: INFO/BASIC) > > > * jBASE (language: jBC, jBASE BASIC, jBASIC) > > > * MENTOR System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > > > * MVENTERPRISE (language: MVENTERPRISE BASIC) > > > * MVON/ONWARE (language: ONWARE BASIC) > > > * OPENINSIGHT (language: BASIC+) > > > * OPENQM, QM (language: QMBASIC) > > > * PICK, Advanced PICK, D3 (language: PICK BASIC) > > > * Power95 (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > > > * REALITY System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > > > * REVELATION, Advanced REVELATION (language: R/BASIC, REVELATION > BASIC) &g
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Maybe it's a good thing you're not interviewing me, Kevin. My immediate answer would be "I don't know. Let me check the documentation and get back to you." I've never had to do anything like that so it's not something I'd know off the top of my head. I'm sure there's probably and OCONV format that would get me started but. Oh! I know! I'd as this list!Does that count? -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:15 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions David, I've used many of these questions in the past but where it fell down was that it didn't give any real picture of technical ability. The one question I've been using lately to assess technical thinking is "how would you calculate the last Thursday in a month?" The answers have been everywhere from accurate to sheer ridiculous. The unexpected takeaway from this question is that it has helped to identify people who simply want to answer quickly without thinking - not a good trait unless the answer is right and to date that's happened a total of zero times - vs people who think first and then give a reasoned response. I've just found it too easy for people to stretch the truth when explaining their technical ability, so I'm asking questions intended to give some evidence. On Saturday, December 14, 2013, David Sharp wrote: > Here is something I have used: > What single project > or task would you consider the most significant accomplishment in your > career so far? > > > > > * > Can you give me a detailed overview of the accomplishment? > > * > Tell me about the company, your title, your position, your role, and > the team involved. > > * > What were the actual results achieved? > > * > When did it take place and how long did the project take. > > * > Why you were chosen? > > * > What were the 3-4 biggest challenges you faced and how did you deal > with them? > > * > Where did you go the extra mile or take the initiative? > > * > Walk me through the plan, how you managed to it, and if it was > successful. > > * > Describe the environment and resources. > > * > Describe your manager's style and whether you liked it or not. > > * > Describe the technical skills needed to accomplish the objective and > how they were used. > > * > Some of the biggest mistakes you made. > > * > Aspects of the project you truly enjoyed. > > * > Aspects you didn't especially care about and how you handled them. > > * > How you managed and influenced other, with lots of examples. > > * > How you changed and grew as a person. > > * > What you would do differently if you could do it again. > > * > What type of formal recognition did your receive? > > > Regards, > David Sharp > > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 12:27:18 -0800 > > From: i...@keyway.net > > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > > Please email me in regards to your ads. I am currently in between > > contracts/assignments/projects and looking for my next assignment. > > Multivalue languages I have been programming in: > > > > * CACHE (language: MV BASIC) > > * INFORMATION (language: INFO/BASIC) > > * jBASE (language: jBC, jBASE BASIC, jBASIC) > > * MENTOR System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > > * MVENTERPRISE (language: MVENTERPRISE BASIC) > > * MVON/ONWARE (language: ONWARE BASIC) > > * OPENINSIGHT (language: BASIC+) > > * OPENQM, QM (language: QMBASIC) > > * PICK, Advanced PICK, D3 (language: PICK BASIC) > > * Power95 (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > > * REALITY System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > > * REVELATION, Advanced REVELATION (language: R/BASIC, REVELATION BASIC) > > * UNIDATA (language: UNIBASIC) > > * UNIVERSE (language: UNIVERSE BASIC) > > * UNIVISION (language: UVBASIC) > > * WebSphere DataStage (language: DSBASIC, DataStage BASIC) > > > > Robert Norman, Multivalue Programmer/Analyst > > (951) 541-1668 > > > > On 10/7/2013 7:35 PM, Kevin King wrote: > > > This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on > Monster and > > > LinkedIn looking for talent. > > > > > > At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too > easy > > > in the interview process. As a result, I have had some > less-than-excellent > > > hires and spent far too much time and money trying to r
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Adding the week number was no big deal. That's a pretty nifty bit of code there man. Thanks for sharing. On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Kevin King wrote: > I ran it through dates from 01 Jan 13 to 31 Dec 2099 and it works > perfectly. Now I just need to adjust it to include the date in the format > -ww. > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Wols Lists wrote: > >> On 14/12/13 19:44, Kevin King wrote: >> > I'll have to run this through some testing, as it's definitely simpler >> than >> > the solution I came up with. >> > >> Read the notes at the top, explaining the logic. Satisfy yourself that's >> correct (it is :-), then satisfy yourself that the code actually >> implements it. >> >> What did you come up with? >> >> Cheers, >> Wol >> > >> > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Wols Lists > >wrote: >> > >> >> On 14/12/13 19:20, Kevin King wrote: >> >>> The 8601 week is based on the count of Thursdays but the week starts >> on >> >> the >> >>> Monday and ends on the following Sunday. I haven't tested this, but >> is >> >>> this accounted for in your logic? And what about the situation where >> >> Jan 1 >> >>> (on a Fri, Sat, Sun) is in the 52nd or 53rd week of the prior year? >> >>> >> >> YES IT IS :-) >> >> >> >> If you read my code, it takes the given date, goes back to the start of >> >> the week, then goes forward to the Thursday. It then works out where in >> >> its year that Thursday falls. This is guaranteed (if the maths is >> >> correct) to give the correct answer. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Wol >> >>> >> >>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Wols Lists < >> antli...@youngman.org.uk >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> On 14/12/13 18:53, Kevin King wrote: >> > The most challenging date math we've faced recently (a real >> project) is >> the >> > ISO 8601 week calculation. Extremely easy to introduce an >> off-by-one >> error! >> > >> THAT'S MY CODE! >> >> And how long has it been on Pickwiki? Absolutely ages! >> >> How does your solution compare with mine? Six lines of code :-) >> http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?IsoWeekNum >> >> I think my code was lifted for this ... >> http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?DateUtility >> Which had the "off by one" introduced :-) >> >> Cheers, >> Wol >> > >> > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Wols Lists < >> antli...@youngman.org.uk >> > wrote: >> > >> >> On 14/12/13 16:48, Dan Fitzgerald wrote: >> >>> Kevin: I'd take the month (verifying; gigo), then run it through a >> >> case >> >> statement to determine the number of days in that month (sounds >> like a >> >> handy subroutine to have in the toolbox). Then I'd convert to get >> the >> day >> >> of the week, another case statement to get the number of days past >> >> Thursday, do the math from the last DOM internal date, oconv the >> >> result, >> >> and grab a cup of dark roast. There are probably more efficient >> ways, >> but >> >> that's how I'd work it through my head in an interview. >> >> >> >> This is pretty much the same problem as "current week of the year" >> :-) >> >> >> >> Can't remember off the top of my head, but it's *extremely* easy to >> >> make >> >> an "off by one" error - I remember someone copying my Pickwiki code >> >> and >> >> getting it wrong, introducing the very error I'd fixed. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Wol >> >> ___ >> >> U2-Users mailing list >> >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> >> > ___ >> > U2-Users mailing list >> > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > >> >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> >>> ___ >> >>> U2-Users mailing list >> >>> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> >>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >>> >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> U2-Users mailing list >> >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> >> > ___ >> > U2-Users mailing list >> > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > >> >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I ran it through dates from 01 Jan 13 to 31 Dec 2099 and it works perfectly. Now I just need to adjust it to include the date in the format -ww. On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Wols Lists wrote: > On 14/12/13 19:44, Kevin King wrote: > > I'll have to run this through some testing, as it's definitely simpler > than > > the solution I came up with. > > > Read the notes at the top, explaining the logic. Satisfy yourself that's > correct (it is :-), then satisfy yourself that the code actually > implements it. > > What did you come up with? > > Cheers, > Wol > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Wols Lists >wrote: > > > >> On 14/12/13 19:20, Kevin King wrote: > >>> The 8601 week is based on the count of Thursdays but the week starts on > >> the > >>> Monday and ends on the following Sunday. I haven't tested this, but is > >>> this accounted for in your logic? And what about the situation where > >> Jan 1 > >>> (on a Fri, Sat, Sun) is in the 52nd or 53rd week of the prior year? > >>> > >> YES IT IS :-) > >> > >> If you read my code, it takes the given date, goes back to the start of > >> the week, then goes forward to the Thursday. It then works out where in > >> its year that Thursday falls. This is guaranteed (if the maths is > >> correct) to give the correct answer. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Wol > >>> > >>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Wols Lists >>> wrote: > >>> > On 14/12/13 18:53, Kevin King wrote: > > The most challenging date math we've faced recently (a real project) > is > the > > ISO 8601 week calculation. Extremely easy to introduce an off-by-one > error! > > > THAT'S MY CODE! > > And how long has it been on Pickwiki? Absolutely ages! > > How does your solution compare with mine? Six lines of code :-) > http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?IsoWeekNum > > I think my code was lifted for this ... > http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?DateUtility > Which had the "off by one" introduced :-) > > Cheers, > Wol > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Wols Lists < > antli...@youngman.org.uk > > wrote: > > > >> On 14/12/13 16:48, Dan Fitzgerald wrote: > >>> Kevin: I'd take the month (verifying; gigo), then run it through a > >> case > >> statement to determine the number of days in that month (sounds > like a > >> handy subroutine to have in the toolbox). Then I'd convert to get > the > day > >> of the week, another case statement to get the number of days past > >> Thursday, do the math from the last DOM internal date, oconv the > >> result, > >> and grab a cup of dark roast. There are probably more efficient > ways, > but > >> that's how I'd work it through my head in an interview. > >> > >> This is pretty much the same problem as "current week of the year" > :-) > >> > >> Can't remember off the top of my head, but it's *extremely* easy to > >> make > >> an "off by one" error - I remember someone copying my Pickwiki code > >> and > >> getting it wrong, introducing the very error I'd fixed. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Wol > >> ___ > >> U2-Users mailing list > >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > >> > > ___ > > U2-Users mailing list > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > >>> ___ > >>> U2-Users mailing list > >>> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > >>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > >>> > >> > >> ___ > >> U2-Users mailing list > >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > >> > > ___ > > U2-Users mailing list > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
On 14/12/13 19:44, Kevin King wrote: > I'll have to run this through some testing, as it's definitely simpler than > the solution I came up with. > Read the notes at the top, explaining the logic. Satisfy yourself that's correct (it is :-), then satisfy yourself that the code actually implements it. What did you come up with? Cheers, Wol > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Wols Lists wrote: > >> On 14/12/13 19:20, Kevin King wrote: >>> The 8601 week is based on the count of Thursdays but the week starts on >> the >>> Monday and ends on the following Sunday. I haven't tested this, but is >>> this accounted for in your logic? And what about the situation where >> Jan 1 >>> (on a Fri, Sat, Sun) is in the 52nd or 53rd week of the prior year? >>> >> YES IT IS :-) >> >> If you read my code, it takes the given date, goes back to the start of >> the week, then goes forward to the Thursday. It then works out where in >> its year that Thursday falls. This is guaranteed (if the maths is >> correct) to give the correct answer. >> >> Cheers, >> Wol >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Wols Lists >> wrote: >>> On 14/12/13 18:53, Kevin King wrote: > The most challenging date math we've faced recently (a real project) is the > ISO 8601 week calculation. Extremely easy to introduce an off-by-one error! > THAT'S MY CODE! And how long has it been on Pickwiki? Absolutely ages! How does your solution compare with mine? Six lines of code :-) http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?IsoWeekNum I think my code was lifted for this ... http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?DateUtility Which had the "off by one" introduced :-) Cheers, Wol > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Wols Lists wrote: > >> On 14/12/13 16:48, Dan Fitzgerald wrote: >>> Kevin: I'd take the month (verifying; gigo), then run it through a >> case >> statement to determine the number of days in that month (sounds like a >> handy subroutine to have in the toolbox). Then I'd convert to get the day >> of the week, another case statement to get the number of days past >> Thursday, do the math from the last DOM internal date, oconv the >> result, >> and grab a cup of dark roast. There are probably more efficient ways, but >> that's how I'd work it through my head in an interview. >> >> This is pretty much the same problem as "current week of the year" :-) >> >> Can't remember off the top of my head, but it's *extremely* easy to >> make >> an "off by one" error - I remember someone copying my Pickwiki code >> and >> getting it wrong, introducing the very error I'd fixed. >> >> Cheers, >> Wol >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> ___ >>> U2-Users mailing list >>> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> >> >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I'll have to run this through some testing, as it's definitely simpler than the solution I came up with. On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Wols Lists wrote: > On 14/12/13 19:20, Kevin King wrote: > > The 8601 week is based on the count of Thursdays but the week starts on > the > > Monday and ends on the following Sunday. I haven't tested this, but is > > this accounted for in your logic? And what about the situation where > Jan 1 > > (on a Fri, Sat, Sun) is in the 52nd or 53rd week of the prior year? > > > YES IT IS :-) > > If you read my code, it takes the given date, goes back to the start of > the week, then goes forward to the Thursday. It then works out where in > its year that Thursday falls. This is guaranteed (if the maths is > correct) to give the correct answer. > > Cheers, > Wol > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Wols Lists >wrote: > > > >> On 14/12/13 18:53, Kevin King wrote: > >>> The most challenging date math we've faced recently (a real project) is > >> the > >>> ISO 8601 week calculation. Extremely easy to introduce an off-by-one > >> error! > >>> > >> THAT'S MY CODE! > >> > >> And how long has it been on Pickwiki? Absolutely ages! > >> > >> How does your solution compare with mine? Six lines of code :-) > >> http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?IsoWeekNum > >> > >> I think my code was lifted for this ... > >> http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?DateUtility > >> Which had the "off by one" introduced :-) > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Wol > >>> > >>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Wols Lists >>> wrote: > >>> > On 14/12/13 16:48, Dan Fitzgerald wrote: > > Kevin: I'd take the month (verifying; gigo), then run it through a > case > statement to determine the number of days in that month (sounds like a > handy subroutine to have in the toolbox). Then I'd convert to get the > >> day > of the week, another case statement to get the number of days past > Thursday, do the math from the last DOM internal date, oconv the > result, > and grab a cup of dark roast. There are probably more efficient ways, > >> but > that's how I'd work it through my head in an interview. > > This is pretty much the same problem as "current week of the year" :-) > > Can't remember off the top of my head, but it's *extremely* easy to > make > an "off by one" error - I remember someone copying my Pickwiki code > and > getting it wrong, introducing the very error I'd fixed. > > Cheers, > Wol > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > >>> ___ > >>> U2-Users mailing list > >>> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > >>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > >>> > >> > >> ___ > >> U2-Users mailing list > >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > >> > > ___ > > U2-Users mailing list > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
On 14/12/13 19:20, Kevin King wrote: > The 8601 week is based on the count of Thursdays but the week starts on the > Monday and ends on the following Sunday. I haven't tested this, but is > this accounted for in your logic? And what about the situation where Jan 1 > (on a Fri, Sat, Sun) is in the 52nd or 53rd week of the prior year? > YES IT IS :-) If you read my code, it takes the given date, goes back to the start of the week, then goes forward to the Thursday. It then works out where in its year that Thursday falls. This is guaranteed (if the maths is correct) to give the correct answer. Cheers, Wol > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Wols Lists wrote: > >> On 14/12/13 18:53, Kevin King wrote: >>> The most challenging date math we've faced recently (a real project) is >> the >>> ISO 8601 week calculation. Extremely easy to introduce an off-by-one >> error! >>> >> THAT'S MY CODE! >> >> And how long has it been on Pickwiki? Absolutely ages! >> >> How does your solution compare with mine? Six lines of code :-) >> http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?IsoWeekNum >> >> I think my code was lifted for this ... >> http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?DateUtility >> Which had the "off by one" introduced :-) >> >> Cheers, >> Wol >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Wols Lists >> wrote: >>> On 14/12/13 16:48, Dan Fitzgerald wrote: > Kevin: I'd take the month (verifying; gigo), then run it through a case statement to determine the number of days in that month (sounds like a handy subroutine to have in the toolbox). Then I'd convert to get the >> day of the week, another case statement to get the number of days past Thursday, do the math from the last DOM internal date, oconv the result, and grab a cup of dark roast. There are probably more efficient ways, >> but that's how I'd work it through my head in an interview. This is pretty much the same problem as "current week of the year" :-) Can't remember off the top of my head, but it's *extremely* easy to make an "off by one" error - I remember someone copying my Pickwiki code and getting it wrong, introducing the very error I'd fixed. Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> ___ >>> U2-Users mailing list >>> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> >> >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
The 8601 week is based on the count of Thursdays but the week starts on the Monday and ends on the following Sunday. I haven't tested this, but is this accounted for in your logic? And what about the situation where Jan 1 (on a Fri, Sat, Sun) is in the 52nd or 53rd week of the prior year? On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Wols Lists wrote: > On 14/12/13 18:53, Kevin King wrote: > > The most challenging date math we've faced recently (a real project) is > the > > ISO 8601 week calculation. Extremely easy to introduce an off-by-one > error! > > > THAT'S MY CODE! > > And how long has it been on Pickwiki? Absolutely ages! > > How does your solution compare with mine? Six lines of code :-) > http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?IsoWeekNum > > I think my code was lifted for this ... > http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?DateUtility > Which had the "off by one" introduced :-) > > Cheers, > Wol > > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Wols Lists >wrote: > > > >> On 14/12/13 16:48, Dan Fitzgerald wrote: > >>> Kevin: I'd take the month (verifying; gigo), then run it through a case > >> statement to determine the number of days in that month (sounds like a > >> handy subroutine to have in the toolbox). Then I'd convert to get the > day > >> of the week, another case statement to get the number of days past > >> Thursday, do the math from the last DOM internal date, oconv the result, > >> and grab a cup of dark roast. There are probably more efficient ways, > but > >> that's how I'd work it through my head in an interview. > >> > >> This is pretty much the same problem as "current week of the year" :-) > >> > >> Can't remember off the top of my head, but it's *extremely* easy to make > >> an "off by one" error - I remember someone copying my Pickwiki code and > >> getting it wrong, introducing the very error I'd fixed. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Wol > >> ___ > >> U2-Users mailing list > >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > >> > > ___ > > U2-Users mailing list > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
On 14/12/13 18:53, Kevin King wrote: > The most challenging date math we've faced recently (a real project) is the > ISO 8601 week calculation. Extremely easy to introduce an off-by-one error! > THAT'S MY CODE! And how long has it been on Pickwiki? Absolutely ages! How does your solution compare with mine? Six lines of code :-) http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?IsoWeekNum I think my code was lifted for this ... http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?DateUtility Which had the "off by one" introduced :-) Cheers, Wol > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Wols Lists wrote: > >> On 14/12/13 16:48, Dan Fitzgerald wrote: >>> Kevin: I'd take the month (verifying; gigo), then run it through a case >> statement to determine the number of days in that month (sounds like a >> handy subroutine to have in the toolbox). Then I'd convert to get the day >> of the week, another case statement to get the number of days past >> Thursday, do the math from the last DOM internal date, oconv the result, >> and grab a cup of dark roast. There are probably more efficient ways, but >> that's how I'd work it through my head in an interview. >> >> This is pretty much the same problem as "current week of the year" :-) >> >> Can't remember off the top of my head, but it's *extremely* easy to make >> an "off by one" error - I remember someone copying my Pickwiki code and >> getting it wrong, introducing the very error I'd fixed. >> >> Cheers, >> Wol >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
The most challenging date math we've faced recently (a real project) is the ISO 8601 week calculation. Extremely easy to introduce an off-by-one error! On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Wols Lists wrote: > On 14/12/13 16:48, Dan Fitzgerald wrote: > > Kevin: I'd take the month (verifying; gigo), then run it through a case > statement to determine the number of days in that month (sounds like a > handy subroutine to have in the toolbox). Then I'd convert to get the day > of the week, another case statement to get the number of days past > Thursday, do the math from the last DOM internal date, oconv the result, > and grab a cup of dark roast. There are probably more efficient ways, but > that's how I'd work it through my head in an interview. > > This is pretty much the same problem as "current week of the year" :-) > > Can't remember off the top of my head, but it's *extremely* easy to make > an "off by one" error - I remember someone copying my Pickwiki code and > getting it wrong, introducing the very error I'd fixed. > > Cheers, > Wol > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
On 14/12/13 16:48, Dan Fitzgerald wrote: > Kevin: I'd take the month (verifying; gigo), then run it through a case > statement to determine the number of days in that month (sounds like a handy > subroutine to have in the toolbox). Then I'd convert to get the day of the > week, another case statement to get the number of days past Thursday, do the > math from the last DOM internal date, oconv the result, and grab a cup of > dark roast. There are probably more efficient ways, but that's how I'd work > it through my head in an interview. This is pretty much the same problem as "current week of the year" :-) Can't remember off the top of my head, but it's *extremely* easy to make an "off by one" error - I remember someone copying my Pickwiki code and getting it wrong, introducing the very error I'd fixed. Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Hi Dan. Instead of the case statement, which requires leapyear logic - Set YY to current year; set MM to current month. Mm += 1; if 13 then MM = 1 AND YY += 1. I.date = Iconv(MM / 01 / YY, 'd2/'). Then i.date -= 1. That gives you last day of current month every time. Then dow and roll back to thursday. Some liberties taken in typing above - iphone typing is tedious... (Allen - Sent from my paperweight) > On Dec 14, 2013, at 11:48 AM, Dan Fitzgerald wrote: > > First, agreeing with Kevin. I've been amazed over the years at how many folks > represent that they have technical skills that they don't. > But, I got a good non-technical question recently: Describe a situation where > you argued strongly for a position and ended up changing your mind. I had a > wealth of examples to draw upon… > Kevin: I'd take the month (verifying; gigo), then run it through a case > statement to determine the number of days in that month (sounds like a handy > subroutine to have in the toolbox). Then I'd convert to get the day of the > week, another case statement to get the number of days past Thursday, do the > math from the last DOM internal date, oconv the result, and grab a cup of > dark roast. There are probably more efficient ways, but that's how I'd work > it through my head in an interview. > >> Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 09:14:36 -0700 >> From: ke...@precisonline.com >> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org >> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions >> >> David, I've used many of these questions in the past but where it fell down >> was that it didn't give any real picture of technical ability. The one >> question I've been using lately to assess technical thinking is "how would >> you calculate the last Thursday in a month?" The answers have been >> everywhere from accurate to sheer ridiculous. The unexpected takeaway from >> this question is that it has helped to identify people who simply want to >> answer quickly without thinking - not a good trait unless the answer is >> right and to date that's happened a total of zero times - vs people who >> think first and then give a reasoned response. >> >> I've just found it too easy for people to stretch the truth when >> explaining their >> technical ability, so I'm asking questions intended to give some evidence. >> >>> On Saturday, December 14, 2013, David Sharp wrote: >>> >>> Here is something I have used: >>> What single project >>> or task would you consider the most significant accomplishment in your >>> career >>> so far? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> · >>> Can you give me a detailed overview of the >>> accomplishment? >>> >>> · >>> Tell me about the company, your title, your >>> position, your role, and the team involved. >>> >>> · >>> What were the actual results achieved? >>> >>> · >>> When did it take place and how long did the >>> project take. >>> >>> · >>> Why you were chosen? >>> >>> · >>> What were the 3-4 biggest challenges you >>> faced and how did you deal with them? >>> >>> · >>> Where did you go the extra mile or take the >>> initiative? >>> >>> · >>> Walk me through the plan, how you managed >>> to it, and if it was successful. >>> >>> · >>> Describe the environment and resources. >>> >>> · >>> Describe your manager’s style and whether >>> you liked it or not. >>> >>> · >>> Describe the technical skills needed to >>> accomplish the objective and how they were used. >>> >>> · >>> Some of the biggest mistakes you made. >>> >>> · >>> Aspects of the project you truly enjoyed. >>> >>> · >>> Aspects you didn’t especially care about >>> and how you handled them. >>> >>> · >>> How you managed and influenced other, with >>> lots of examples. >>> >>> · >>> How you changed and grew as a person. >>> >>> · >>> What you would do differently if you could >>> do it again. >>> >>> · >>> What type of formal recognition did your >>> receive? >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> David Sharp >>>> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 12:27:18 -0800 >>>> From: i...@keyway.net >>>&g
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Dan, that's a GREAT question. Still doesn't dig deep into the technical prowess, but it could definitely expose adaptability, which is a valuable skill in this profession. As to the last Thursday, it's actually even simpler than you described. Calculate the first day of the next month and then back up day by day until you hit a Thursday. There's an optimization where you could calculate the day of the month for the first of the next month and then calculate the difference to roll back to Thursday, but that's a bonus if they go that far. Of course, now if any of my esteemed colleagues here decide to apply for one of my open positions, I'll have to change the question! (No worries, I have several other questions from which to choose.) This has been a great discussion, and I appreciate everyone's input! -K On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Dan Fitzgerald wrote: > First, agreeing with Kevin. I've been amazed over the years at how many > folks represent that they have technical skills that they don't. > But, I got a good non-technical question recently: Describe a situation > where you argued strongly for a position and ended up changing your mind. I > had a wealth of examples to draw upon… > Kevin: I'd take the month (verifying; gigo), then run it through a case > statement to determine the number of days in that month (sounds like a > handy subroutine to have in the toolbox). Then I'd convert to get the day > of the week, another case statement to get the number of days past > Thursday, do the math from the last DOM internal date, oconv the result, > and grab a cup of dark roast. There are probably more efficient ways, but > that's how I'd work it through my head in an interview. > > > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 09:14:36 -0700 > > From: ke...@precisonline.com > > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > > David, I've used many of these questions in the past but where it fell > down > > was that it didn't give any real picture of technical ability. The one > > question I've been using lately to assess technical thinking is "how > would > > you calculate the last Thursday in a month?" The answers have been > > everywhere from accurate to sheer ridiculous. The unexpected takeaway > from > > this question is that it has helped to identify people who simply want to > > answer quickly without thinking - not a good trait unless the answer is > > right and to date that's happened a total of zero times - vs people who > > think first and then give a reasoned response. > > > > I've just found it too easy for people to stretch the truth when > > explaining their > > technical ability, so I'm asking questions intended to give some > evidence. > > > > On Saturday, December 14, 2013, David Sharp wrote: > > > > > Here is something I have used: > > > What single project > > > or task would you consider the most significant accomplishment in your > > > career > > > so far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > · > > > Can you give me a detailed overview of the > > > accomplishment? > > > > > > · > > > Tell me about the company, your title, your > > > position, your role, and the team involved. > > > > > > · > > > What were the actual results achieved? > > > > > > · > > > When did it take place and how long did the > > > project take. > > > > > > · > > > Why you were chosen? > > > > > > · > > > What were the 3-4 biggest challenges you > > > faced and how did you deal with them? > > > > > > · > > > Where did you go the extra mile or take the > > > initiative? > > > > > > · > > > Walk me through the plan, how you managed > > > to it, and if it was successful. > > > > > > · > > > Describe the environment and resources. > > > > > > · > > > Describe your manager’s style and whether > > > you liked it or not. > > > > > > · > > > Describe the technical skills needed to > > > accomplish the objective and how they were used. > > > > > > · > > > Some of the biggest mistakes you made. > > > > > > · > > > Aspects of the project you truly enjoyed. > > > > > > · > > > Aspects you didn’t especially care about > > > and how you handled them. > > > > > > · > > > How you manag
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
First, agreeing with Kevin. I've been amazed over the years at how many folks represent that they have technical skills that they don't. But, I got a good non-technical question recently: Describe a situation where you argued strongly for a position and ended up changing your mind. I had a wealth of examples to draw upon… Kevin: I'd take the month (verifying; gigo), then run it through a case statement to determine the number of days in that month (sounds like a handy subroutine to have in the toolbox). Then I'd convert to get the day of the week, another case statement to get the number of days past Thursday, do the math from the last DOM internal date, oconv the result, and grab a cup of dark roast. There are probably more efficient ways, but that's how I'd work it through my head in an interview. > Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 09:14:36 -0700 > From: ke...@precisonline.com > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > David, I've used many of these questions in the past but where it fell down > was that it didn't give any real picture of technical ability. The one > question I've been using lately to assess technical thinking is "how would > you calculate the last Thursday in a month?" The answers have been > everywhere from accurate to sheer ridiculous. The unexpected takeaway from > this question is that it has helped to identify people who simply want to > answer quickly without thinking - not a good trait unless the answer is > right and to date that's happened a total of zero times - vs people who > think first and then give a reasoned response. > > I've just found it too easy for people to stretch the truth when > explaining their > technical ability, so I'm asking questions intended to give some evidence. > > On Saturday, December 14, 2013, David Sharp wrote: > > > Here is something I have used: > > What single project > > or task would you consider the most significant accomplishment in your > > career > > so far? > > > > > > > > > > · > > Can you give me a detailed overview of the > > accomplishment? > > > > · > > Tell me about the company, your title, your > > position, your role, and the team involved. > > > > · > > What were the actual results achieved? > > > > · > > When did it take place and how long did the > > project take. > > > > · > > Why you were chosen? > > > > · > > What were the 3-4 biggest challenges you > > faced and how did you deal with them? > > > > · > > Where did you go the extra mile or take the > > initiative? > > > > · > > Walk me through the plan, how you managed > > to it, and if it was successful. > > > > · > > Describe the environment and resources. > > > > · > > Describe your manager’s style and whether > > you liked it or not. > > > > · > > Describe the technical skills needed to > > accomplish the objective and how they were used. > > > > · > > Some of the biggest mistakes you made. > > > > · > > Aspects of the project you truly enjoyed. > > > > · > > Aspects you didn’t especially care about > > and how you handled them. > > > > · > > How you managed and influenced other, with > > lots of examples. > > > > · > > How you changed and grew as a person. > > > > · > > What you would do differently if you could > > do it again. > > > > · > > What type of formal recognition did your > > receive? > > > > > > Regards, > > David Sharp > > > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 12:27:18 -0800 > > > From: i...@keyway.net > > > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > > > > Please email me in regards to your ads. I am currently in between > > > contracts/assignments/projects and looking for my next assignment. > > > Multivalue languages I have been programming in: > > > > > > * CACHE (language: MV BASIC) > > > * INFORMATION (language: INFO/BASIC) > > > * jBASE (language: jBC, jBASE BASIC, jBASIC) > > > * MENTOR System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > > > * MVENTERPRISE (language: MVENTERPRISE BASIC) > > > * MVON/ONWARE (language: ONWARE BASIC) > > > * OPENINSIGHT (language: BASIC+) > > > * OPENQM, QM (language: QMBASIC) > > > * PICK, Advanced PICK, D3 (language: PICK BASIC) > > > * Power95 (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASI
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
David, I've used many of these questions in the past but where it fell down was that it didn't give any real picture of technical ability. The one question I've been using lately to assess technical thinking is "how would you calculate the last Thursday in a month?" The answers have been everywhere from accurate to sheer ridiculous. The unexpected takeaway from this question is that it has helped to identify people who simply want to answer quickly without thinking - not a good trait unless the answer is right and to date that's happened a total of zero times - vs people who think first and then give a reasoned response. I've just found it too easy for people to stretch the truth when explaining their technical ability, so I'm asking questions intended to give some evidence. On Saturday, December 14, 2013, David Sharp wrote: > Here is something I have used: > What single project > or task would you consider the most significant accomplishment in your > career > so far? > > > > > · > Can you give me a detailed overview of the > accomplishment? > > · > Tell me about the company, your title, your > position, your role, and the team involved. > > · > What were the actual results achieved? > > · > When did it take place and how long did the > project take. > > · > Why you were chosen? > > · > What were the 3-4 biggest challenges you > faced and how did you deal with them? > > · > Where did you go the extra mile or take the > initiative? > > · > Walk me through the plan, how you managed > to it, and if it was successful. > > · > Describe the environment and resources. > > · > Describe your manager’s style and whether > you liked it or not. > > · > Describe the technical skills needed to > accomplish the objective and how they were used. > > · > Some of the biggest mistakes you made. > > · > Aspects of the project you truly enjoyed. > > · > Aspects you didn’t especially care about > and how you handled them. > > · > How you managed and influenced other, with > lots of examples. > > · > How you changed and grew as a person. > > · > What you would do differently if you could > do it again. > > · > What type of formal recognition did your > receive? > > > Regards, > David Sharp > > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 12:27:18 -0800 > > From: i...@keyway.net > > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > > Please email me in regards to your ads. I am currently in between > > contracts/assignments/projects and looking for my next assignment. > > Multivalue languages I have been programming in: > > > > * CACHE (language: MV BASIC) > > * INFORMATION (language: INFO/BASIC) > > * jBASE (language: jBC, jBASE BASIC, jBASIC) > > * MENTOR System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > > * MVENTERPRISE (language: MVENTERPRISE BASIC) > > * MVON/ONWARE (language: ONWARE BASIC) > > * OPENINSIGHT (language: BASIC+) > > * OPENQM, QM (language: QMBASIC) > > * PICK, Advanced PICK, D3 (language: PICK BASIC) > > * Power95 (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > > * REALITY System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > > * REVELATION, Advanced REVELATION (language: R/BASIC, REVELATION BASIC) > > * UNIDATA (language: UNIBASIC) > > * UNIVERSE (language: UNIVERSE BASIC) > > * UNIVISION (language: UVBASIC) > > * WebSphere DataStage (language: DSBASIC, DataStage BASIC) > > > > Robert Norman, Multivalue Programmer/Analyst > > (951) 541-1668 > > > > On 10/7/2013 7:35 PM, Kevin King wrote: > > > This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on > Monster and > > > LinkedIn looking for talent. > > > > > > At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too > easy > > > in the interview process. As a result, I have had some > less-than-excellent > > > hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue > > > underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to > be > > > much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of > > > technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right > > > skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may > not. > > > > > > That being said, I have a question for the group: > > > > > > Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've > > > asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate > betw
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Here is something I have used: What single project or task would you consider the most significant accomplishment in your career so far? · Can you give me a detailed overview of the accomplishment? · Tell me about the company, your title, your position, your role, and the team involved. · What were the actual results achieved? · When did it take place and how long did the project take. · Why you were chosen? · What were the 3-4 biggest challenges you faced and how did you deal with them? · Where did you go the extra mile or take the initiative? · Walk me through the plan, how you managed to it, and if it was successful. · Describe the environment and resources. · Describe your manager’s style and whether you liked it or not. · Describe the technical skills needed to accomplish the objective and how they were used. · Some of the biggest mistakes you made. · Aspects of the project you truly enjoyed. · Aspects you didn’t especially care about and how you handled them. · How you managed and influenced other, with lots of examples. · How you changed and grew as a person. · What you would do differently if you could do it again. · What type of formal recognition did your receive? Regards, David Sharp > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 12:27:18 -0800 > From: i...@keyway.net > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > Please email me in regards to your ads. I am currently in between > contracts/assignments/projects and looking for my next assignment. > Multivalue languages I have been programming in: > > * CACHE (language: MV BASIC) > * INFORMATION (language: INFO/BASIC) > * jBASE (language: jBC, jBASE BASIC, jBASIC) > * MENTOR System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > * MVENTERPRISE (language: MVENTERPRISE BASIC) > * MVON/ONWARE (language: ONWARE BASIC) > * OPENINSIGHT (language: BASIC+) > * OPENQM, QM (language: QMBASIC) > * PICK, Advanced PICK, D3 (language: PICK BASIC) > * Power95 (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > * REALITY System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > * REVELATION, Advanced REVELATION (language: R/BASIC, REVELATION BASIC) > * UNIDATA (language: UNIBASIC) > * UNIVERSE (language: UNIVERSE BASIC) > * UNIVISION (language: UVBASIC) > * WebSphere DataStage (language: DSBASIC, DataStage BASIC) > > Robert Norman, Multivalue Programmer/Analyst > (951) 541-1668 > > On 10/7/2013 7:35 PM, Kevin King wrote: > > This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and > > LinkedIn looking for talent. > > > > At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy > > in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent > > hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue > > underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be > > much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of > > technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right > > skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. > > > > That being said, I have a question for the group: > > > > Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've > > asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between > > the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? > > > > Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some > > ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as > > possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My > > technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an > > alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that > > could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very > > beneficial for everyone in this mix. > > > > Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me > > questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me > > directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of > > your recommended interview questions. > > ___ > > U2-Users mailing list > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Will... anything to share with the rest of the class? On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Wjhonson wrote: > > Oh my. > Bites Tongue. > > > > -Original Message- > From: Robert > To: U2 Users List > Sent: Fri, Dec 13, 2013 12:27 pm > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > Please email me in regards to your ads. I am currently in between > contracts/assignments/projects and looking for my next assignment. > Multivalue languages I have been programming in: > > * CACHE (language: MV BASIC) > * INFORMATION (language: INFO/BASIC) > * jBASE (language: jBC, jBASE BASIC, jBASIC) > * MENTOR System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > * MVENTERPRISE (language: MVENTERPRISE BASIC) > * MVON/ONWARE (language: ONWARE BASIC) > * OPENINSIGHT (language: BASIC+) > * OPENQM, QM (language: QMBASIC) > * PICK, Advanced PICK, D3 (language: PICK BASIC) > * Power95 (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > * REALITY System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) > * REVELATION, Advanced REVELATION (language: R/BASIC, REVELATION BASIC) > * UNIDATA (language: UNIBASIC) > * UNIVERSE (language: UNIVERSE BASIC) > * UNIVISION (language: UVBASIC) > * WebSphere DataStage (language: DSBASIC, DataStage BASIC) > > Robert Norman, Multivalue Programmer/Analyst > (951) 541-1668 > > On 10/7/2013 7:35 PM, Kevin King wrote: > > This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster > and > > LinkedIn looking for talent. > > > > At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy > > in the interview process. As a result, I have had some > less-than-excellent > > hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue > > underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be > > much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of > > technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right > > skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may > not. > > > > That being said, I have a question for the group: > > > > Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've > > asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate > between > > the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? > > > > Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get > some > > ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as > > possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My > > technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an > > alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that > > could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very > > beneficial for everyone in this mix. > > > > Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me > > questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me > > directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of > > your recommended interview questions. > > ___ > > U2-Users mailing list > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Oh my. Bites Tongue. -Original Message- From: Robert To: U2 Users List Sent: Fri, Dec 13, 2013 12:27 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Please email me in regards to your ads. I am currently in between contracts/assignments/projects and looking for my next assignment. Multivalue languages I have been programming in: * CACHE (language: MV BASIC) * INFORMATION (language: INFO/BASIC) * jBASE (language: jBC, jBASE BASIC, jBASIC) * MENTOR System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) * MVENTERPRISE (language: MVENTERPRISE BASIC) * MVON/ONWARE (language: ONWARE BASIC) * OPENINSIGHT (language: BASIC+) * OPENQM, QM (language: QMBASIC) * PICK, Advanced PICK, D3 (language: PICK BASIC) * Power95 (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) * REALITY System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) * REVELATION, Advanced REVELATION (language: R/BASIC, REVELATION BASIC) * UNIDATA (language: UNIBASIC) * UNIVERSE (language: UNIVERSE BASIC) * UNIVISION (language: UVBASIC) * WebSphere DataStage (language: DSBASIC, DataStage BASIC) Robert Norman, Multivalue Programmer/Analyst (951) 541-1668 On 10/7/2013 7:35 PM, Kevin King wrote: > This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and > LinkedIn looking for talent. > > At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy > in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent > hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue > underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be > much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of > technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right > skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. > > That being said, I have a question for the group: > > Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've > asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between > the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? > > Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some > ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as > possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My > technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an > alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that > could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very > beneficial for everyone in this mix. > > Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me > questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me > directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of > your recommended interview questions. > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Please email me in regards to your ads. I am currently in between contracts/assignments/projects and looking for my next assignment. Multivalue languages I have been programming in: * CACHE (language: MV BASIC) * INFORMATION (language: INFO/BASIC) * jBASE (language: jBC, jBASE BASIC, jBASIC) * MENTOR System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) * MVENTERPRISE (language: MVENTERPRISE BASIC) * MVON/ONWARE (language: ONWARE BASIC) * OPENINSIGHT (language: BASIC+) * OPENQM, QM (language: QMBASIC) * PICK, Advanced PICK, D3 (language: PICK BASIC) * Power95 (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) * REALITY System (language: DATA/BASIC, DATABASIC, DATA BASIC) * REVELATION, Advanced REVELATION (language: R/BASIC, REVELATION BASIC) * UNIDATA (language: UNIBASIC) * UNIVERSE (language: UNIVERSE BASIC) * UNIVISION (language: UVBASIC) * WebSphere DataStage (language: DSBASIC, DataStage BASIC) Robert Norman, Multivalue Programmer/Analyst (951) 541-1668 On 10/7/2013 7:35 PM, Kevin King wrote: This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and LinkedIn looking for talent. At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. That being said, I have a question for the group: Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very beneficial for everyone in this mix. Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of your recommended interview questions. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I've never been hired by a company who had HR interview me as well. That says something. I don't know what it says. But it's something. -Original Message- From: Kevin King To: U2 Users List Sent: Wed, Oct 9, 2013 7:08 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions David, I'm a company of < 10. HR, technology, hell, even vacuuming the facility falls to moi. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 2:27 PM, David A. Green wrote: > Why not let HR handle the personality questions and background checks, > that's what they do. That leaves you to concentrate on their technical > abilities. > > David A. Green > (480) 813-1725 > DAG Consulting > > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org > [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Susan Joslyn > Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 12:54 PM > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > Kevin, > > Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a > lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell > me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended "Tell me what you > would > like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic." > Probably that's an approach you've already tried. > > Susan > > > > -Original Message- > > From: <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [ > <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> > mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, > Brendon > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM > > To: U2 Users List > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > > Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? > > Applicant: My honesty. > > Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. > > Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ > > > > > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Hire hourly, then promote to permanent. After fifty hours you should know if you want to hire for permanent. -Original Message- From: Kevin King To: Susan Joslyn ; U2 Users List Sent: Wed, Oct 9, 2013 7:07 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who wants that sort of thing. I just need to quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn wrote: > Kevin, > > Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a > lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell > me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended "Tell me what you > would > like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic." > Probably that's an approach you've already tried. > > Susan > > > > -Original Message- > > From: <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [ > <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> > mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, > Brendon > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM > > To: U2 Users List > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > > Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? > > Applicant: My honesty. > > Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. > > Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ > > > > > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Yes, unfortunately, that can and will happen BUT not always. Why did they leave and what if anything could be done to have kept them? Sometimes people leave companies for better pay and benefits, sometimes they have life changes that require it, sometimes it is because the company is closing, or converting away, or just plain conflict between management and programmers. The more people are reluctant to bring on newbies and work with them, the less people we have coming into our world. It really boils down to survival of Multivalue, the harder it is to get people as there are less people available, the more likely companies will start looking to move away. I was trained at my first job after working 2 years as a computer operator, then stayed with that company 8 more years as a programmer. 2nd programming job 18 months contracting. 3rd programming job 7 years. Current programming 5 years. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 9:53 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Okay Will, I'll bite. So what's that look like? How can you identify someone looking for their "last" job, and what qualities does one need to offer? Clearly it's not excessive cash, flexible schedules, great equipment, wonderful customers, a wide variety of technologies to learn and grow, and a quiet, "bring-your-dog-to-work" type environment. Yeah, there's heavy workloads, but that's a sign that we're doing a good job when customers are loading us down with opportunities, right? On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Wjhonson wrote: > If you give them their first programming job they will leave > > The trick is finding people to whom you are giving them their *last* > programming job. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Kevin King > To: U2 Users List > Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2013 1:15 pm > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > I also agree. I'm willing to train, but what I've found is that > someone that is "willing" to learn doesn't necessarily mean they're > "able" to learn or "willing" to do what they've learned. What > happened here was that a group of folks with little experience got a > lot of good training and then took the training elsewhere, so I'd > rather not start from scratch if at all possible. We need folks to be > able to contribute quickly, so I don't have the time nor desire to > give someone their first programming job knowing that I'm only giving them > wings to fly. > > And yeah, I'm still a little bitter. I'll get over it. :-) > > > On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Robert Frailey >wrote: > > > I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to > > Epicor's Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell > > and Microsoft when I was hired. > > I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by > work. > > 19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time > > and put in whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn > > everything in sight. > We > > would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm > > expected to be 24 hours a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills > > in when I can't. I run into very few people with our work ethic > > anymore. > > > > Robert > > - Original Message - From: "Brenda Ives" < > > bren...@marketamerica.com> > > To: "'U2 Users List'" > > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > > > > How about the other end here? > >> > >> By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of > >> college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT > >> degree > or > >> working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years > >> of experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no > >> employment history of what has been taught them outside of college. > >> Plus they meet all 3 of your requirements listed below? > >> > >> UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/**CACHE is not taught in colleges and if > >> we don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? > >> > >> Brenda > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.org< > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org>[mailto: >
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Okay Will, I'll bite. So what's that look like? How can you identify someone looking for their "last" job, and what qualities does one need to offer? Clearly it's not excessive cash, flexible schedules, great equipment, wonderful customers, a wide variety of technologies to learn and grow, and a quiet, "bring-your-dog-to-work" type environment. Yeah, there's heavy workloads, but that's a sign that we're doing a good job when customers are loading us down with opportunities, right? On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Wjhonson wrote: > If you give them their first programming job > they will leave > > The trick is finding people to whom you are > giving them their *last* programming job. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Kevin King > To: U2 Users List > Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2013 1:15 pm > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > I also agree. I'm willing to train, but what I've found is that someone > that is "willing" to learn doesn't necessarily mean they're "able" to learn > or "willing" to do what they've learned. What happened here was that a > group of folks with little experience got a lot of good training and then > took the training elsewhere, so I'd rather not start from scratch if at all > possible. We need folks to be able to contribute quickly, so I don't have > the time nor desire to give someone their first programming job knowing > that I'm only giving them wings to fly. > > And yeah, I'm still a little bitter. I'll get over it. :-) > > > On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Robert Frailey >wrote: > > > I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to Epicor's > > Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell and Microsoft > > when I was hired. > > I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by > work. > > 19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time and > > put in > > whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn everything in sight. > We > > would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm expected > > to be 24 hours > > a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills in when I can't. I run into > > very few people with our work ethic anymore. > > > > Robert > > - Original Message - From: "Brenda Ives" < > > bren...@marketamerica.com> > > To: "'U2 Users List'" > > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > > > > How about the other end here? > >> > >> By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of > >> college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree > or > >> working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of > >> experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment > >> history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet > >> all 3 of your requirements listed below? > >> > >> UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/**CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we > >> don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? > >> > >> Brenda > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.org< > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org>[mailto: > >> u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org< > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org>] > >> On Behalf Of Bill Haskett > >> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM > >> To: U2 Users List > >> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > >> > >> Kevin: > >> > >> After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, > >> I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the > >> following three attributes: > >> > >> 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, > >> 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business > >> situations, and > >> 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is > >> always a lot!). > >> > >> The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. > >> Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 > >> high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb > says, > >> getting someone to show up looking presentable and wi
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I turned 50 on tueday, I'm happy to have a job that still wants me and I can pay my bills. - Original Message - From: "Wjhonson" To: Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions If you give them their first programming job they will leave The trick is finding people to whom you are giving them their *last* programming job. -Original Message- From: Kevin King To: U2 Users List Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2013 1:15 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions I also agree. I'm willing to train, but what I've found is that someone that is "willing" to learn doesn't necessarily mean they're "able" to learn or "willing" to do what they've learned. What happened here was that a group of folks with little experience got a lot of good training and then took the training elsewhere, so I'd rather not start from scratch if at all possible. We need folks to be able to contribute quickly, so I don't have the time nor desire to give someone their first programming job knowing that I'm only giving them wings to fly. And yeah, I'm still a little bitter. I'll get over it. :-) On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Robert Frailey wrote: I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to Epicor's Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell and Microsoft when I was hired. I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by work. 19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time and put in whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn everything in sight. We would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm expected to be 24 hours a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills in when I can't. I run into very few people with our work ethic anymore. Robert - Original Message - From: "Brenda Ives" < bren...@marketamerica.com> To: "'U2 Users List'" Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions How about the other end here? By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet all 3 of your requirements listed below? UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/**CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? Brenda -Original Message- From: u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.org[mailto: u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill --**--------------** - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey wrote: Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create a perfect office society. quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. Robert ----- Original Message - From: "Kevin King" To: "Susan Joslyn" ; "U2 Users List" < u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable result
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
If you give them their first programming job they will leave The trick is finding people to whom you are giving them their *last* programming job. -Original Message- From: Kevin King To: U2 Users List Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2013 1:15 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions I also agree. I'm willing to train, but what I've found is that someone that is "willing" to learn doesn't necessarily mean they're "able" to learn or "willing" to do what they've learned. What happened here was that a group of folks with little experience got a lot of good training and then took the training elsewhere, so I'd rather not start from scratch if at all possible. We need folks to be able to contribute quickly, so I don't have the time nor desire to give someone their first programming job knowing that I'm only giving them wings to fly. And yeah, I'm still a little bitter. I'll get over it. :-) On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Robert Frailey wrote: > I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to Epicor's > Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell and Microsoft > when I was hired. > I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by work. > 19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time and > put in > whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn everything in sight. We > would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm expected > to be 24 hours > a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills in when I can't. I run into > very few people with our work ethic anymore. > > Robert > - Original Message - From: "Brenda Ives" < > bren...@marketamerica.com> > To: "'U2 Users List'" > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > How about the other end here? >> >> By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of >> college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or >> working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of >> experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment >> history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet >> all 3 of your requirements listed below? >> >> UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/**CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we >> don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? >> >> Brenda >> >> -Original Message- >> From: >> u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.org[mailto: >> u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org] >> On Behalf Of Bill Haskett >> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM >> To: U2 Users List >> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions >> >> Kevin: >> >> After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, >> I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the >> following three attributes: >> >> 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, >> 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business >> situations, and >> 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is >> always a lot!). >> >> The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. >> Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 >> high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, >> getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever >> it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are >> quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf >> life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. >> >> Just a thought. :-) >> >> Bill >> >> --**--** >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* ke...@precisonline.com >> *To:* U2 Users List >> *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions >> >>> Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was >>> one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but >>> lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, >>> and unwillingness to adapt. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey >> >wrote: >>> >>> Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to >>>> c
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I personally never cared about my employees being on time except for client meetings. Otherwise they can come and go as they want, as long as their working hours, matches their billable hours :) -Original Message- From: Bill Haskett [via U2 (UniVerse & UniData)] To: Will Johnson Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2013 12:25 pm Subject: Re: [OT] Interview Questions Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill - Original Message - *From:* [hidden email] *To:* U2 Users List <[hidden email]> *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one > of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot > of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness > to adapt. > > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey <[hidden email]>wrote: > >> Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create >> a perfect office society. >> >> >> quit hiring backstabbing chaff >>> with their own agendas. >>> >> Robert >> - Original Message - From: "Kevin King" <[hidden email]> >> To: "Susan Joslyn" <[hidden email]>; "U2 Users List" < >> [hidden email]> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions >> >> >> Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted >>> significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who >>> can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as >>> possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I >>> certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who >>> wants that sort of thing. I just need to quit hiring backstabbing chaff >>> with their own agendas. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> Kevin, >>>> Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a >>>> lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant >>>> tell >>>> me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended "Tell me what you >>>> would >>>> like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic." >>>> Probably that's an approach you've already tried. >>>> >>>> Susan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> >>>> From: <mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org<;[hidden email]> >>>> u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.org<[hidden email]>[ >>>> <mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org<;[hidden email]> >>>> mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org<;[hidden email]>] >>>> On Behalf Of Leverett, >>>> Brendon >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM >>>> >>>> To: U2 Users List >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? >>>> >>>> Applicant: My honesty. >>>> >>>> Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. >>>> >>>> Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> &
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I spent the last year or so... reading a lot of Ayn Rand. One of her key followers... the author Dr. Leonard Peikoff... wrote a book that I like called "The DIM Hypothesis". DIM divides heads into three groups... [1] disintegrative [2] Integrative [3] misIntegrative. Writing code is all about reason and logic. Thus... I suppose that almost everybody on this list is mostly an "I". On the other hand... most people do not write code. Consider MeetUp.com as a way to find "the right stuff". Len's vanity California license plate reads "DIMWIT". ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Kevin: And that's the crux of the interview process. If you hire people with all the skills you want, and they don't go somewhere else, why would you think people you train will go somewhere else? Or think of this conversely. My thought is people go somewhere else for a reason. Nip that reason in the bud, so to speak, and you won't have that problem, or at least you can focus your attention on other problems. :-) Bill Untitled Page - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List *Date:* 10/11/2013 1:15 PM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions I also agree. I'm willing to train, but what I've found is that someone that is "willing" to learn doesn't necessarily mean they're "able" to learn or "willing" to do what they've learned. What happened here was that a group of folks with little experience got a lot of good training and then took the training elsewhere, so I'd rather not start from scratch if at all possible. We need folks to be able to contribute quickly, so I don't have the time nor desire to give someone their first programming job knowing that I'm only giving them wings to fly. And yeah, I'm still a little bitter. I'll get over it. :-) On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Robert Frailey wrote: I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to Epicor's Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell and Microsoft when I was hired. I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by work. 19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time and put in whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn everything in sight. We would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm expected to be 24 hours a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills in when I can't. I run into very few people with our work ethic anymore. Robert - Original Message - From: "Brenda Ives" < bren...@marketamerica.com> To: "'U2 Users List'" Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions How about the other end here? By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet all 3 of your requirements listed below? UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/**CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? Brenda -Original Message- From: u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.org[mailto: u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill --**--------------** - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions [...snipped...] On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey - Original Message - From: "Kevin King" To: "Susan Joslyn" ; "U2 Users List" < u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who wants
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I also agree. I'm willing to train, but what I've found is that someone that is "willing" to learn doesn't necessarily mean they're "able" to learn or "willing" to do what they've learned. What happened here was that a group of folks with little experience got a lot of good training and then took the training elsewhere, so I'd rather not start from scratch if at all possible. We need folks to be able to contribute quickly, so I don't have the time nor desire to give someone their first programming job knowing that I'm only giving them wings to fly. And yeah, I'm still a little bitter. I'll get over it. :-) On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Robert Frailey wrote: > I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to Epicor's > Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell and Microsoft > when I was hired. > I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by work. > 19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time and > put in > whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn everything in sight. We > would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm expected > to be 24 hours > a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills in when I can't. I run into > very few people with our work ethic anymore. > > Robert > - Original Message - From: "Brenda Ives" < > bren...@marketamerica.com> > To: "'U2 Users List'" > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > How about the other end here? >> >> By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of >> college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or >> working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of >> experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment >> history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet >> all 3 of your requirements listed below? >> >> UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/**CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we >> don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? >> >> Brenda >> >> -Original Message- >> From: >> u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.org[mailto: >> u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org] >> On Behalf Of Bill Haskett >> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM >> To: U2 Users List >> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions >> >> Kevin: >> >> After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, >> I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the >> following three attributes: >> >> 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, >> 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business >> situations, and >> 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is >> always a lot!). >> >> The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. >> Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 >> high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, >> getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever >> it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are >> quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf >> life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. >> >> Just a thought. :-) >> >> Bill >> >> --**--** >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* ke...@precisonline.com >> *To:* U2 Users List >> *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions >> >>> Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was >>> one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but >>> lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, >>> and unwillingness to adapt. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey >> >wrote: >>> >>> Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to >>>> create a perfect office society. >>>> >>>> >>>> quit hiring backstabbing chaff >>>> >>>>> with their own agendas. >>>>> >>>>> Robert >>>> - Original Message - From: "Kevin Ki
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I totally agree with Brenda and Bill. Work sent Brooke and I to Epicor's Unidata and Pick classes in California, I only had Novell and Microsoft when I was hired. I picked up Unix, Unidata, redback and DBMS from classes provided by work. 19 years later, Brooke and I are self sufficient. We show up on time and put in whatever necessary to complete our tasks. We learn everything in sight. We would be hard pressed if one or both of us got hit by a bus. I'm expected to be 24 hours a day / seven days a week and Brooke fills in when I can't. I run into very few people with our work ethic anymore. Robert - Original Message - From: "Brenda Ives" To: "'U2 Users List'" Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions How about the other end here? By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet all 3 of your requirements listed below? UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? Brenda -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey wrote: Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create a perfect office society. quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. Robert - Original Message - From: "Kevin King" To: "Susan Joslyn" ; "U2 Users List" < u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who wants that sort of thing. I just need to quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn wrote: Kevin, Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended "Tell me what you would like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic." Probably that's an approach you've already tried. Susan -Original Message- From: <mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.org[ <mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, Brendon Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? Applicant: My honesty. Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. Applicant: I don't give a %^&*
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
How about the other end here? By other end, I mean this. What about someone in college or out of college with a degree other than an IT subject or if with an IT degree or working on one, who has been taught by someone with over 20 years of experience outside of college but the student/graduate has no employment history of what has been taught them outside of college. Plus they meet all 3 of your requirements listed below? UniVerse/UniData/D3/JBASE/CACHE is not taught in colleges and if we don't teach them what happens when all of us oldies are gone? Brenda -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 2:41 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was > one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but > lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, > and unwillingness to adapt. > > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey wrote: > >> Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to >> create a perfect office society. >> >> >> quit hiring backstabbing chaff >>> with their own agendas. >>> >> Robert >> - Original Message - From: "Kevin King" >> >> To: "Susan Joslyn" ; "U2 Users List" < >> u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions >> >> >> Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted >>> significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for >>> people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon >>> after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for >>> life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an >>> environment for a person who wants that sort of thing. I just need >>> to quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn wrote: >>> >>> Kevin, >>>> Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems >>>> like a lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the >>>> applicant tell me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended >>>> "Tell me what you would like me to know about your skills, your >>>> ambitions and your work ethic." >>>> Probably that's an approach you've already tried. >>>> >>>> Susan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> >>>> From: >>>> <mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org>>> tserver.u2ug.org> >>>> u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.org>>> u2ug.org>[ >>>> <mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org>>> tserver.u2ug.org> >>>> mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org>>> server.u2ug.org>] >>>> On Behalf Of Leverett, >>>> Brendon >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM >>>> >>>> To: U2 Users List >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions >>>> >>>> >&g
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Kevin: After actually hiring a lot of people, and firing those that needed it, I've come to the conclusion that all employers need a person with the following three attributes: 1) An ability, and willingness, to be on-time, 2) An ability, and willingness, to be presentable in all business situations, and 3) An ability, and willingness, to learn what they don't know (which is always a lot!). The people coming out of college these days are mostly unemployable. Today's bachelors degree is like a 1930 8th grade education, or a 1970 high school education. So, no matter what any Human Services dweeb says, getting someone to show up looking presentable and willing to work whatever it takes to learn what they don't know is gold! These kinds of people are quite trainable and, considering all software frameworks have a short shelf life anyway, offer a lot of flexibility for your purposes. Just a thought. :-) Bill - Original Message - *From:* ke...@precisonline.com *To:* U2 Users List *Date:* 10/11/2013 9:56 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey wrote: Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create a perfect office society. quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. Robert - Original Message - From: "Kevin King" To: "Susan Joslyn" ; "U2 Users List" < u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who wants that sort of thing. I just need to quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn wrote: Kevin, Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended "Tell me what you would like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic." Probably that's an approach you've already tried. Susan -Original Message- From: <mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.org[ <mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, Brendon Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? Applicant: My honesty. Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-users<http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users> __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-users<http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users> __**_ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-users<http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users> ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
You are correct, with my apologies to the group. On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Doug Averch wrote: > Kevin, > > You realize this is not a therapy session. There are people you know and > others that may be reading this. This is not the venue for that. > > Regards, > Doug > www.u2logic.com > > > On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Kevin King > wrote: > > > Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one > > of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot > > of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and > unwillingness > > to adapt. > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Kevin, You realize this is not a therapy session. There are people you know and others that may be reading this. This is not the venue for that. Regards, Doug www.u2logic.com On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Kevin King wrote: > Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one > of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot > of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness > to adapt. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Unfortunately, in one case I hired a friend. Needless to say, it was one of the worst decisions I've made. Not only lost a friend, but lost a lot of customer confidence by her attitude, poor workmanship, and unwillingness to adapt. On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Robert Frailey wrote: > Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create > a perfect office society. > > > quit hiring backstabbing chaff >> with their own agendas. >> > > Robert > - Original Message - From: "Kevin King" > To: "Susan Joslyn" ; "U2 Users List" < > u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org> > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted >> significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who >> can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as >> possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I >> certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who >> wants that sort of thing. I just need to quit hiring backstabbing chaff >> with their own agendas. >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn wrote: >> >> Kevin, >>> >>> Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a >>> lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant >>> tell >>> me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended "Tell me what you >>> would >>> like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic." >>> Probably that's an approach you've already tried. >>> >>> Susan >>> >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> >>> From: >>> <mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org >>> > >>> u2-users-bounces@listserver.**u2ug.org[ >>> <mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org >>> > >>> mailto:u2-users-bounces@**listserver.u2ug.org] >>> On Behalf Of Leverett, >>> Brendon >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM >>> >>> To: U2 Users List >>> >>> Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions >>> >>> >>> >>> Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? >>> >>> Applicant: My honesty. >>> >>> Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. >>> >>> Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __**_ >>> U2-Users mailing list >>> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-users<http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users> >>> >>> __**_ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-users<http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users> >> > > __**_ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-users<http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users> > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Wow, seen a lot of that and managers trying to get friends hired to create a perfect office society. quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. Robert - Original Message - From: "Kevin King" To: "Susan Joslyn" ; "U2 Users List" Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who wants that sort of thing. I just need to quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn wrote: Kevin, Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended "Tell me what you would like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic." Probably that's an approach you've already tried. Susan -Original Message- From: <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [ <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, Brendon Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? Applicant: My honesty. Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
For everyone else who responded and that I didn't respond personally, thank you so much. I've come to the conclusion that not only have I been lax in testing technical knowledge, Brian is right, I didn't really have a vision for where to slot someone and therefore the interview was a little washed out. Thanks to everyone who has (and will) respond to this. It's most helpful. On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Kevin King wrote: > Rex, copious thanks. Great information. > > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Rex Gozar wrote: > >> Kevin, >> >> You want people who are smart and get things done -- >> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog73.html >> >> rex >> >> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 4:39 AM, Brian Leach >> wrote: >> > Kevin >> > >> > I remember a long time back working for a consultancy in Oxford we had >> long >> > and ineffective interview processes. >> > Then we took on a client that was an institute of personnel directors, >> and >> > found they published some very good materials on how to conduct >> interviews. >> > >> > The main lesson was to have a very clear set of goals and criteria >> drawn up >> > and agreed before you go in, and a clear way to assess against that. >> Sounds >> > obvious, but we weren't doing that. >> > >> > When we did it was much easier to decide whether they had demonstrated >> that >> > they had met those criteria and we could be more analytical especially >> at >> > the first interview stage. >> > >> > That was more valuable than trying to come up with clever questions. >> > >> > Technical assessment is a different story. For that, a clear task to >> perform >> > with measurable criteria for correctness. >> > >> > Brian >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > U2-Users mailing list >> > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Rex, copious thanks. Great information. On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Rex Gozar wrote: > Kevin, > > You want people who are smart and get things done -- > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog73.html > > rex > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 4:39 AM, Brian Leach > wrote: > > Kevin > > > > I remember a long time back working for a consultancy in Oxford we had > long > > and ineffective interview processes. > > Then we took on a client that was an institute of personnel directors, > and > > found they published some very good materials on how to conduct > interviews. > > > > The main lesson was to have a very clear set of goals and criteria drawn > up > > and agreed before you go in, and a clear way to assess against that. > Sounds > > obvious, but we weren't doing that. > > > > When we did it was much easier to decide whether they had demonstrated > that > > they had met those criteria and we could be more analytical especially at > > the first interview stage. > > > > That was more valuable than trying to come up with clever questions. > > > > Technical assessment is a different story. For that, a clear task to > perform > > with measurable criteria for correctness. > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > U2-Users mailing list > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
TG, I hired a guy with copious MV skill. He came on strong and then just one day decided that he was smarter than everyone else and didn't want to do the tasks that he was assigned. Unbelievable waste of an otherwise talented resource. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 3:56 PM, Tony Gravagno <3xk547...@sneakemail.com>wrote: > I wrote a short blog series on the ineffectiveness of 98% of the > companies recruiting for MV positions, I just haven't published it yet. > In short, they don't know what questions to ask and most end-users don't > know either. That's why we see a high percentage of failed hires in > this industry, and Kevin is just confirming that. > > Kevin, don't forget PickJobs.net. > > > In addition to some of the suggestions here, I'd give a candidate a set of > hands-on tests. Their resources: The command line and a browser. We're all > going to have varying degrees of success coughing up a solution on the > spot, in a verbal interview, or in writing. But if we can put it to the > keyboard, most of us are going to have much better success. The browser is > there for a touch of the real world. I might not know the exact syntax to > get something done, but if I screw up and fall into debug, I will still get > the job done quickly if I can access the product documentation, wiki's, and > these valuable forums. Rather than asking a person for a fish, just make > sure they know where to fish and that they know how to use the fishing > pole. If they don't know where to find solutions then they're going to > flounder (pun wasn't intended, but I'll take it). If they know where the > industry/community resources are then they'll be able to respond to dynamic > requirements even if they don't know a solution off-hand. > > And I'm going to alienate about 70% of our colleagues here, but I think a > modern interview needs to favor those who have current knowledge of a > variety of technologies. A BASIC-only developer isn't going to cut it > anymore and people who are BASIC-only are holding onto their jobs because > they know their current applications, not for their technical skills. If > you're going to hire someone who isn't familiar with your app, they Must be > on top of technologies, only one of which is MV. So depending on your > company/client directions, the modern candidate must know MV + (Java and/or > .NET and/or PHP and/or MySQL and/or SQL Server). They must have a solid > grasp on XML and/or JSON. They must have a working knowledge of web > services with SOAP and/or REST - and sending/receiving transactions with > MV. A new hire must understand how MV behaves as a component in an > enterprise, not as the one and only server in an office. > > Yeah, we're going to pay more for this person, but the person who > differentiates themselves by knowing more than just Pick has already > distinguished themselves in their ability to adapt to change - and that's > really the kind of person we need to hire these days. Unfortunately it's > going to be a lot easier to train someone to use Pick if they already know > other technologies, than it will be to train a MV-only person to use other > technologies. The people who haven't picked up on technology from this > millennium demonstrate a long-term lack of drive and initiative - that's > the kind of person we do Not want to hire these days. > > (One of the services I "passively" offer is assistance with hiring, > interviewing, etc. Please feel free to contact me for assistance in > creating job ads which attract the right people, and evaluating the people > who respond.) > > > Tony Gravagno > Nebula Research and Development > TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com > http://Nebula-RnD.com/blog > http://LinkedIn.com/in/TonyGravagno > http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno > http://PickWiki.com > http://groups.google.com/group/MVDBMS > http://www.LinkedIn.com/groups/Pick-Users-Group-64935 > http://BitBucket.org/FOSS4MV > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
David, I'm a company of < 10. HR, technology, hell, even vacuuming the facility falls to moi. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 2:27 PM, David A. Green wrote: > Why not let HR handle the personality questions and background checks, > that's what they do. That leaves you to concentrate on their technical > abilities. > > David A. Green > (480) 813-1725 > DAG Consulting > > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org > [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Susan Joslyn > Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 12:54 PM > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > Kevin, > > Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a > lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell > me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended "Tell me what you > would > like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic." > Probably that's an approach you've already tried. > > Susan > > > > -Original Message- > > From: <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [ > <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> > mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, > Brendon > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM > > To: U2 Users List > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > > Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? > > Applicant: My honesty. > > Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. > > Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ > > > > > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Susan, yes. I've been very open in my interviews, and it's netted significantly regrettable results. So this time I'm going for people who can get behind and contribute to the common cause as soon after hire as possible. I don't have any aspirations of hiring for life, though I certainly do endeavor to have that kind of an environment for a person who wants that sort of thing. I just need to quit hiring backstabbing chaff with their own agendas. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Susan Joslyn wrote: > Kevin, > > Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a > lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell > me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended "Tell me what you > would > like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic." > Probably that's an approach you've already tried. > > Susan > > > > -Original Message- > > From: <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [ > <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> > mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, > Brendon > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM > > To: U2 Users List > > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > > > Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? > > Applicant: My honesty. > > Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. > > Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ > > > > > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Hey man, it was funny! Thanks for the levity. On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Leverett, Brendon < brendon.lever...@spotless.com.au> wrote: > Kevin, > Sorry if I was making light of your serious request but this rather bad > joke came back to me as soon as I read your post. > > Good luck with the tech & non-tech Qs > > > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto: > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, Brendon > Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? > Applicant: My honesty. > Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. > Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ > > > > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto: > u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King > Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:36 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster > and LinkedIn looking for talent. > > At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy > in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent > hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue > underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be > much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of > technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right > skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. > > That being said, I have a question for the group: > > Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've > asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between > the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? > > Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some > ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as > possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My > technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an > alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that > could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very > beneficial for everyone in this mix. > > Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me > questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me > directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of > your recommended interview questions. > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
We're actually on the same page, Doug, thanks. What was on my mind is that while everyone "knows" they need to diversify, too many do not actually diversify. I know some very smart, highly expert BASIC people who have known for many years that they need to do something beyond BASIC, but they don't. With the recession at its peak people were being sacked everywhere and BASIC-only people were in a panic about what they would do if they lost their job. What did they do? Some went looking for more BASIC-only jobs, though some people cross-trained, and others took the opportunity to retrain themselves completely out of the industry. I don't want to be anecdotal, I'm citing a general flaw that many of us share to some degree. My last four blogs discuss in various ways how MV people cling so dearly to MV-only, to their own detriment and that of this industry. http://Nebula-RnD.com/blog/ Keeping this on-topic, it's not enough for an individual to know that they need to cross-train. A valued employee will do some of it on their own, off-hours, because that's how professionals hone their craft. And they'll ask their company for classes and time to practice on app modernization that the company values. They'll get books and spend time on websites for JavaScript and .NET and HTML5, etc. They'll mention other technologies that can be used to satisfy current business requirements. They'll take initiative on their own behalf, as a matter of their own survival. When they get a new job they'll ask about how they're going to improve their skills in addition to how they're going to use their current skills to help the company. This is the kind of person who distinguishes themselves as a long-term contributor compared to someone who's just selling time for money. Unfortunately our industry doesn't have enough of these people, both in end-user shops and in the VAR channel, and this is why we have a high attrition of end-users leaving to other technologies. (I'm hoping some of our colleagues out there are now thinking about how to open a new discussion with their managers.. If you'd like some help with that, please feel free to email me off-list. TG at-remove-this-anti-spam-mungeNebula-RnD.com.) Best, T On Tuesday, October 8, 2013 3:56 PM, doug chanco wrote: Tony, I agree with everything you said except one thing . "And I'm going to alienate about 70% of our colleagues here, but I think a modern interview needs to favor those who have current knowledge of a variety of technologies. A BASIC-only developer isn't going to cut it anymore and people who are BASIC-only are holding onto their jobs because they know their current applications, not for their technical skills .." I think you have it wrong and that 70% agree with you and 30% will disagree, I don't want to get to far off topic on this off topic topic, but most if not all know that just being a pick basic developer doesn't cut it anymore, pick talks to all kinds of "modern" technologies and the "green screen apps" are going the way of the dinosaurs, so one would have to have their head in the sand to not see that you need more skills than just knowing pick basic and how to create dictionaries and write prok's, having said that your post was well said "as usual" dougc ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Kevin, You want people who are smart and get things done -- http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog73.html rex On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 4:39 AM, Brian Leach wrote: > Kevin > > I remember a long time back working for a consultancy in Oxford we had long > and ineffective interview processes. > Then we took on a client that was an institute of personnel directors, and > found they published some very good materials on how to conduct interviews. > > The main lesson was to have a very clear set of goals and criteria drawn up > and agreed before you go in, and a clear way to assess against that. Sounds > obvious, but we weren't doing that. > > When we did it was much easier to decide whether they had demonstrated that > they had met those criteria and we could be more analytical especially at > the first interview stage. > > That was more valuable than trying to come up with clever questions. > > Technical assessment is a different story. For that, a clear task to perform > with measurable criteria for correctness. > > Brian > > > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Kevin I remember a long time back working for a consultancy in Oxford we had long and ineffective interview processes. Then we took on a client that was an institute of personnel directors, and found they published some very good materials on how to conduct interviews. The main lesson was to have a very clear set of goals and criteria drawn up and agreed before you go in, and a clear way to assess against that. Sounds obvious, but we weren't doing that. When we did it was much easier to decide whether they had demonstrated that they had met those criteria and we could be more analytical especially at the first interview stage. That was more valuable than trying to come up with clever questions. Technical assessment is a different story. For that, a clear task to perform with measurable criteria for correctness. Brian ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Tony, I agree with everything you said except one thing . "And I'm going to alienate about 70% of our colleagues here, but I think a modern interview needs to favor those who have current knowledge of a variety of technologies. A BASIC-only developer isn't going to cut it anymore and people who are BASIC-only are holding onto their jobs because they know their current applications, not for their technical skills ." I think you have it wrong and that 70% agree with you and 30% will disagree, I don't want to get to far off topic on this off topic topic, but most if not all know that just being a pick basic developer doesn't cut it anymore, pick talks to all kinds of "modern" technologies and the "green screen apps" are going the way of the dinosaurs, so one would have to have their head in the sand to not see that you need more skills than just knowing pick basic and how to create dictionaries and write prok's, having said that your post was well said "as usual" dougc ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I wrote a short blog series on the ineffectiveness of 98% of the companies recruiting for MV positions, I just haven't published it yet. In short, they don't know what questions to ask and most end-users don't know either. That's why we see a high percentage of failed hires in this industry, and Kevin is just confirming that. Kevin, don't forget PickJobs.net. In addition to some of the suggestions here, I'd give a candidate a set of hands-on tests. Their resources: The command line and a browser. We're all going to have varying degrees of success coughing up a solution on the spot, in a verbal interview, or in writing. But if we can put it to the keyboard, most of us are going to have much better success. The browser is there for a touch of the real world. I might not know the exact syntax to get something done, but if I screw up and fall into debug, I will still get the job done quickly if I can access the product documentation, wiki's, and these valuable forums. Rather than asking a person for a fish, just make sure they know where to fish and that they know how to use the fishing pole. If they don't know where to find solutions then they're going to flounder (pun wasn't intended, but I'll take it). If they know where the industry/community resources are then they'll be able to respond to dynamic requirements even if they don't know a solution off-hand. And I'm going to alienate about 70% of our colleagues here, but I think a modern interview needs to favor those who have current knowledge of a variety of technologies. A BASIC-only developer isn't going to cut it anymore and people who are BASIC-only are holding onto their jobs because they know their current applications, not for their technical skills. If you're going to hire someone who isn't familiar with your app, they Must be on top of technologies, only one of which is MV. So depending on your company/client directions, the modern candidate must know MV + (Java and/or .NET and/or PHP and/or MySQL and/or SQL Server). They must have a solid grasp on XML and/or JSON. They must have a working knowledge of web services with SOAP and/or REST - and sending/receiving transactions with MV. A new hire must understand how MV behaves as a component in an enterprise, not as the one and only server in an office. Yeah, we're going to pay more for this person, but the person who differentiates themselves by knowing more than just Pick has already distinguished themselves in their ability to adapt to change - and that's really the kind of person we need to hire these days. Unfortunately it's going to be a lot easier to train someone to use Pick if they already know other technologies, than it will be to train a MV-only person to use other technologies. The people who haven't picked up on technology from this millennium demonstrate a long-term lack of drive and initiative - that's the kind of person we do Not want to hire these days. (One of the services I "passively" offer is assistance with hiring, interviewing, etc. Please feel free to contact me for assistance in creating job ads which attract the right people, and evaluating the people who respond.) Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com http://Nebula-RnD.com/blog http://LinkedIn.com/in/TonyGravagno http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno http://PickWiki.com http://groups.google.com/group/MVDBMS http://www.LinkedIn.com/groups/Pick-Users-Group-64935 http://BitBucket.org/FOSS4MV ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Why not let HR handle the personality questions and background checks, that's what they do. That leaves you to concentrate on their technical abilities. David A. Green (480) 813-1725 DAG Consulting -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Susan Joslyn Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 12:54 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Kevin, Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended "Tell me what you would like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic." Probably that's an approach you've already tried. Susan -Original Message- From: <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [ <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, Brendon Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? Applicant: My honesty. Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Tell me about the best boss you ever had, and why they were the best. -Original Message- From: Susan Joslyn To: u2-users Sent: Tue, Oct 8, 2013 12:54 pm Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Kevin, Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended "Tell me what you would like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic." Probably that's an approach you've already tried. Susan -Original Message- From: <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [ <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, Brendon Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? Applicant: My honesty. Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Kevin, Not that I have any real experience - at least not for what seems like a lifetime - with hiring. But my instinct might be to let the applicant tell me whatever they want. You know, just an open ended "Tell me what you would like me to know about your skills, your ambitions and your work ethic." Probably that's an approach you've already tried. Susan -Original Message- From: <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [ <mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org> mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, Brendon Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? Applicant: My honesty. Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Some of these responses have been really good. Thanks, all. Does anyone see any value in U2 Certification from Rocket? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Whenever I interview, it's all about the work. I tend to give a technical interview and avoid the "What can you bring to our company" types of questions. HR wants to hire Game Show hosts. I need people who can produce. Find out what they know and how they think. And If you want to know somebody's character, give them a problem that you know they can't solve in the allotted time. You will see how they handle frustration and overwhelming challenges. If they take the problem as far as they can and look you in the eye and say "I couldn't finish it" then they will probably be good to work with. If they get shook up and try and BS you with a wrong answer, or if they try to distract you with their dazzling personality then I tend to shy away. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
I'll share the general sentiment that writing some code or debugging a live program is important. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html for why. I think it's fair to have access to google while doing this, but reasonable people can disagree on that. I don't think there are any magical interview questions that will weed out the recalcitrant. It comes down to 1) *can* they do the job, and 2) *will* they do the job? A fizzbuzz test and some technical questions may answer #1, but there's really no predicting #2. In my old job I managed several teams of about 50 people total, and eventually gave up on interviews as a talent sieve and started doing contract-to-hire for 1-3 months. Actual performance is a much better predictor of future performance than interview performance. This dramatically changes the type of people you end up hiring, but for me it was worth the trade-off. My best hire ever was a mumbling, inarticulate, 20-year old drop out from Boulder. Later provided living proof that 100x programmers exist. He's a senior dev at Evite now ;-) -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 7:36 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and LinkedIn looking for talent. At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. That being said, I have a question for the group: Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very beneficial for everyone in this mix. Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of your recommended interview questions. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users - IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Charlie, No, sorry. This was code on their in-house server. As I recall Figi's program was a routine that read some files, did some calculations, and printed out the results to green-bar. You can build a similar test suite out of any program(s): 1) Chose working, cleanly designed, program. 2) Write down a list of code/design techniques which would demonstrate what your company needs. 3) find in 1 examples of 2, and then devilishly apply hacks which break 2. (typos, mangled loops, misplaced logic switches, etc.) 4) find a broken keyboard. Marc Rutherford Principal Programmer/Analyst Advanced Bionics LLC 661 362-1754 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Charlie Noah Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 8:26 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Hi Marc, I don't suppose you have a copy of that program you'd be willing to share? Charlie On 10-08-2013 10:10 AM, Rutherford, Marc wrote: > My all-time best interview was 20 years ago at FigiGraphics in San Diego. I > was given a (Basic) program I was told had 12 known bugs in it. I was given > twenty minutes to find and fix them. Some were trivial, but annoying to > debug none the less. Others were more subtle, and several involved mutual > interactions. The group of them did provide enough coverage so as to > demonstrate if you had a broad Basic knowledge plus debug/code skills. > > Also I was seated at work station with a keyboard that had a bad key. Part > of the test was to see how long I would go before I complained. Of course > the lost time came out of my twenty minute allotment :-) > > I am surprised that in my entire career this was the only time I had ever > been given a hands-on 'performance test' by a hiring company. > > And how many times have I been assigned by my company to an interview panel > where we would pick someone who 'interviewed well' - only for them to go down > in flames later on... > > Marc Rutherford > Principal Programmer/Analyst > Advanced Bionics LLC > 661 362-1754 > > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org > [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King > Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 7:36 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions > > This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and > LinkedIn looking for talent. > > At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy in > the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent > hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue underperforming > and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be much more > discriminating this time around, and am building a series of technical > questions to help quickly identify those that have the right skills, > abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. > > That being said, I have a question for the group: > > Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've > asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between > the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? > > Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some > ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as > possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My > technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an alarming > pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that could help set > the stage for what may be to come, that could be very beneficial for everyone > in this mix. > > Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me questions > about the positions here. If you have questions, email me directly or > through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of your recommended > interview questions. > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Hi Marc, I don't suppose you have a copy of that program you'd be willing to share? Charlie On 10-08-2013 10:10 AM, Rutherford, Marc wrote: My all-time best interview was 20 years ago at FigiGraphics in San Diego. I was given a (Basic) program I was told had 12 known bugs in it. I was given twenty minutes to find and fix them. Some were trivial, but annoying to debug none the less. Others were more subtle, and several involved mutual interactions. The group of them did provide enough coverage so as to demonstrate if you had a broad Basic knowledge plus debug/code skills. Also I was seated at work station with a keyboard that had a bad key. Part of the test was to see how long I would go before I complained. Of course the lost time came out of my twenty minute allotment :-) I am surprised that in my entire career this was the only time I had ever been given a hands-on 'performance test' by a hiring company. And how many times have I been assigned by my company to an interview panel where we would pick someone who 'interviewed well' - only for them to go down in flames later on... Marc Rutherford Principal Programmer/Analyst Advanced Bionics LLC 661 362-1754 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 7:36 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and LinkedIn looking for talent. At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. That being said, I have a question for the group: Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very beneficial for everyone in this mix. Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of your recommended interview questions. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
My all-time best interview was 20 years ago at FigiGraphics in San Diego. I was given a (Basic) program I was told had 12 known bugs in it. I was given twenty minutes to find and fix them. Some were trivial, but annoying to debug none the less. Others were more subtle, and several involved mutual interactions. The group of them did provide enough coverage so as to demonstrate if you had a broad Basic knowledge plus debug/code skills. Also I was seated at work station with a keyboard that had a bad key. Part of the test was to see how long I would go before I complained. Of course the lost time came out of my twenty minute allotment :-) I am surprised that in my entire career this was the only time I had ever been given a hands-on 'performance test' by a hiring company. And how many times have I been assigned by my company to an interview panel where we would pick someone who 'interviewed well' - only for them to go down in flames later on... Marc Rutherford Principal Programmer/Analyst Advanced Bionics LLC 661 362-1754 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 7:36 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and LinkedIn looking for talent. At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. That being said, I have a question for the group: Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very beneficial for everyone in this mix. Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of your recommended interview questions. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
One thing I learned the hard way - if an applicant takes a scheduled phone interview while shopping at Walmart, don't hire that person! His or her attitude toward you and your company becomes evident. Charlie On 10-08-2013 6:29 AM, Doug Chanco wrote: Sorty kevin I misread your question and missed the technical qyestions aside part ... My favorite non technical questions were: Why should we hire you in 5 sentences or less Explain to me a strength you bring and why you think its a strength Whats a weakness you have and how do you plan to address it Tell me about a typical day at work(current or previous job) Why do you want this job Describe to me your previous or current boss Tell me 3 things you like to do for fun and why Do you dislike working extra hours and why Pretend your me (interviewer) give and answer 3 questions you would ask in helping you fill the position Dougc Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Mega™, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Doug Chanco Date:10/08/2013 00:28 (GMT-05:00) To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Questions I have been asked (and my favorites) Tell me a solution to get the last day of a given month (pick) Now give me the same solution in another language Whats an object and give me an example Whats your favorite shell and why? Whats a netmask and default gateway Whats one tech you do not know but would like to learn and why? Why use stored procedures? What does oconv mcp do? Favorite version of unix and why? Cannot access server "x" (network) walk me through what steps you would do to figure out the issue What are some commands you use in the pick debugger Favorite version of pick and why? What are sone ways for non pick programs to communicate with a pick system (Follow up) Which one do you prefer and why? I know sone of these are not pick related but they are my favorite questions asked me in various interviews and (in my humble opinion) the days of just a pick programmer are slowly going away companies (again IMHO) are looking for more than just knowing pick basic Anyway here is my contribution feel free to use all/none or any combination in between and good luck in your hiring Dougc Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Mega™, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Kevin King Date:10/07/2013 22:35 (GMT-05:00) To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and LinkedIn looking for talent. At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. That being said, I have a question for the group: Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very beneficial for everyone in this mix. Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of your recommended interview questions. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Kevin, Before I hire someone I try and contact every reference they provide. You might think that is a waste of time since it is an easy way for the applicant to boost their credibility. I found it very revealing. MM -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 9:36 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and LinkedIn looking for talent. At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. That being said, I have a question for the group: Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very beneficial for everyone in this mix. Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of your recommended interview questions. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Sorty kevin I misread your question and missed the technical qyestions aside part ... My favorite non technical questions were: Why should we hire you in 5 sentences or less Explain to me a strength you bring and why you think its a strength Whats a weakness you have and how do you plan to address it Tell me about a typical day at work(current or previous job) Why do you want this job Describe to me your previous or current boss Tell me 3 things you like to do for fun and why Do you dislike working extra hours and why Pretend your me (interviewer) give and answer 3 questions you would ask in helping you fill the position Dougc Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Mega™, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Doug Chanco Date:10/08/2013 00:28 (GMT-05:00) To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Questions I have been asked (and my favorites) Tell me a solution to get the last day of a given month (pick) Now give me the same solution in another language Whats an object and give me an example Whats your favorite shell and why? Whats a netmask and default gateway Whats one tech you do not know but would like to learn and why? Why use stored procedures? What does oconv mcp do? Favorite version of unix and why? Cannot access server "x" (network) walk me through what steps you would do to figure out the issue What are some commands you use in the pick debugger Favorite version of pick and why? What are sone ways for non pick programs to communicate with a pick system (Follow up) Which one do you prefer and why? I know sone of these are not pick related but they are my favorite questions asked me in various interviews and (in my humble opinion) the days of just a pick programmer are slowly going away companies (again IMHO) are looking for more than just knowing pick basic Anyway here is my contribution feel free to use all/none or any combination in between and good luck in your hiring Dougc Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Mega™, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Kevin King Date:10/07/2013 22:35 (GMT-05:00) To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and LinkedIn looking for talent. At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. That being said, I have a question for the group: Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very beneficial for everyone in this mix. Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of your recommended interview questions. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
On 08/10/13 05:28, Doug Chanco wrote: > Questions I have been asked (and my favorites) > > Tell me a solution to get the last day of a given month (pick) I used that as a test question - it was quite revealing ... Another question we used - look for some bad code in one of your own programs. Ask the candidates to work out what it does, and ask "could you do better?". The code we found was ten lines that (badly) re-implemented the round() function. ALL the candidates except one tried to rewrite it and made a total hash of it. One person actually spotted what it was trying to do and said "you could use the round function". Even more impressive, he commented that he hadn't bothered to work out what it did when fed negative numbers but he mentioned the appropriate options. I think all told we had about four questions and gave candidates an hour. We were quite explicit that that was NOT enough time to do a good job, and we wanted quick and dirty answers, but the number of people who clearly wasted most of their time on question 1 was amazing. If you're going to call people back for a second interview, that's a good approach - give them a few open-ended questions and see how they tackle them. The no-hopers can be dropped and the few who can even read the questions properly can be called back for a further grilling :-) Cheers, Wol ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Questions I have been asked (and my favorites) Tell me a solution to get the last day of a given month (pick) Now give me the same solution in another language Whats an object and give me an example Whats your favorite shell and why? Whats a netmask and default gateway Whats one tech you do not know but would like to learn and why? Why use stored procedures? What does oconv mcp do? Favorite version of unix and why? Cannot access server "x" (network) walk me through what steps you would do to figure out the issue What are some commands you use in the pick debugger Favorite version of pick and why? What are sone ways for non pick programs to communicate with a pick system (Follow up) Which one do you prefer and why? I know sone of these are not pick related but they are my favorite questions asked me in various interviews and (in my humble opinion) the days of just a pick programmer are slowly going away companies (again IMHO) are looking for more than just knowing pick basic Anyway here is my contribution feel free to use all/none or any combination in between and good luck in your hiring Dougc Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Mega™, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Kevin King Date:10/07/2013 22:35 (GMT-05:00) To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and LinkedIn looking for talent. At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. That being said, I have a question for the group: Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very beneficial for everyone in this mix. Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of your recommended interview questions. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Kevin, Sorry if I was making light of your serious request but this rather bad joke came back to me as soon as I read your post. Good luck with the tech & non-tech Qs -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Leverett, Brendon Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:40 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? Applicant: My honesty. Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:36 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and LinkedIn looking for talent. At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. That being said, I have a question for the group: Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very beneficial for everyone in this mix. Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of your recommended interview questions. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions
Interviewer: What is one of your weak points? Applicant: My honesty. Interviewer: I would have thought that was a strong point. Applicant: I don't give a %^&* what you think you stupid ^&^%$ -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kevin King Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013 1:36 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] [OT] Interview Questions This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and LinkedIn looking for talent. At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. That being said, I have a question for the group: Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very beneficial for everyone in this mix. Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of your recommended interview questions. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] [OT] Interview Questions
This is not specifically a job posting, but I do have ads up on Monster and LinkedIn looking for talent. At the risk of confessing too much, I have historically been far too easy in the interview process. As a result, I have had some less-than-excellent hires and spent far too much time and money trying to rescue underperforming and/or recalcitrant staff. Therefore, I'm planning to be much more discriminating this time around, and am building a series of technical questions to help quickly identify those that have the right skills, abilities, and attitude for our team compared to those who may not. That being said, I have a question for the group: Technical questions aside, what are the best interview questions you've asked, been asked, or otherwise heard about that help differentiate between the candidates worthy of additional consideration vs. those that are not? Each company is different of course, but that aside I'm hoping to get some ideas to cut to the heart of the matter as quickly and efficiently as possible, both for the sake of the interviewer and the interviewee. (My technical interview is bordering on 200 questions and growing at an alarming pace.) If there were a half dozen questions to open with that could help set the stage for what may be to come, that could be very beneficial for everyone in this mix. Also, in an effort to keep the OT to a minimum, please don't ask me questions about the positions here. If you have questions, email me directly or through LinkedIn. I'd prefer to keep this topic on point of your recommended interview questions. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
