Re: graduation proposal?

2012-06-07 Thread Art Vandenberg
Seems a reasonable approach to moving forward on graduation.

Art

On Jun 6, 2012, at 9:37 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

 I think that works.
 
 On Jun 6, 2012, at 2:24 PM, Andy Kurth wrote:
 
 I don't think there can be any conditionals when the actual vote takes
 place.  However, we first need to propose the charter on the general
 incubator list and allow time for discussion.  I propose adding his
 name to the charter and proposing it on the incubator list.  Mention
 that his ICLA is currently being worked on and the vote won't begin
 until the ICLA is on file.  If the ICLA can't be done in a timely
 matter his name will be removed and than the vote will begin.  I
 believe we can always add him to the project later as if we are adding
 a new committer.
 
 -Andy
 
 On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Josh Thompson josh_thomp...@ncsu.edu wrote:
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 Hash: SHA1
 
 According to
 
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
 
 there needs to be a vote at the IPMC level.  Should we go ahead and start 
 that
 process and mention that we may add one person (Dmitri) to the initial 
 member
 list in the charter if his ICLA gets filed in time?
 
 Thanks,
 Josh
 
 On Monday, June 04, 2012 1:31:26 PM Kevan Miller wrote:
 If we are to graduate this month, we're running short on time. I don't
 recall a vote being sent to general@
 
 --kevan
 - --
 - ---
 Josh Thompson
 VCL Developer
 North Carolina State University
 
 my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu
 
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Art Vandenberg
avandenb...@gsu.edu
MS Information  Computer Science, Georgia Tech
MVA Painting  Drawing, Georgia State
http://www.gsu.edu/ist/research-computing/art-vandenberg.html






Re: graduation proposal?

2012-06-06 Thread Josh Thompson
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According to

http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

there needs to be a vote at the IPMC level.  Should we go ahead and start that 
process and mention that we may add one person (Dmitri) to the initial member 
list in the charter if his ICLA gets filed in time?

Thanks,
Josh

On Monday, June 04, 2012 1:31:26 PM Kevan Miller wrote:
 If we are to graduate this month, we're running short on time. I don't
 recall a vote being sent to general@
 
 --kevan
- -- 
- ---
Josh Thompson
VCL Developer
North Carolina State University

my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu

All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
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Re: graduation proposal?

2012-06-06 Thread fapee...@ncsu.edu
I agree.

Aaron

- Reply message -
From: Josh Thompson josh_thomp...@ncsu.edu
Date: Wed, Jun 6, 2012 3:00 pm
Subject: graduation proposal?
To: vcl-dev@incubator.apache.org

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I see I didn't state what I was thinking.  I was thinking what you said - to 
get the IPMC discussion part handled so that we don't have to work through 
that at the last minute.

I'd say let's go ahead with what Andy suggested.  Other thoughts?

Josh

On Wednesday, June 06, 2012 2:24:11 PM Andy Kurth wrote:
 I don't think there can be any conditionals when the actual vote takes
 place.  However, we first need to propose the charter on the general
 incubator list and allow time for discussion.  I propose adding his
 name to the charter and proposing it on the incubator list.  Mention
 that his ICLA is currently being worked on and the vote won't begin
 until the ICLA is on file.  If the ICLA can't be done in a timely
 matter his name will be removed and than the vote will begin.  I
 believe we can always add him to the project later as if we are adding
 a new committer.
 
 -Andy
 
 On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Josh Thompson josh_thomp...@ncsu.edu 
wrote:
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
  
  According to
  
  http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
  
  there needs to be a vote at the IPMC level.  Should we go ahead and start
  that process and mention that we may add one person (Dmitri) to the
  initial member list in the charter if his ICLA gets filed in time?
  
  Thanks,
  Josh
  
  On Monday, June 04, 2012 1:31:26 PM Kevan Miller wrote:
  If we are to graduate this month, we're running short on time. I don't
  recall a vote being sent to general@
  
  --kevan
  
  - --
  - ---
  Josh Thompson
  VCL Developer
  North Carolina State University
  
  my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu
  
  All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
  are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
  Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
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  iEYEARECAAYFAk/Pmj8ACgkQV/LQcNdtPQMUCwCfSbE8HaCakJqUA0kHvYzR5/KQ
  zTsAnAvzdfwTr075qZ4DoPweXWIE7TKw
  =f4si
  -END PGP SIGNATURE-
- -- 
- ---
Josh Thompson
VCL Developer
North Carolina State University

my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu

All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
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Re: graduation proposal?

2012-06-04 Thread Josh Thompson
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Hash: SHA1

Kevan,

Thanks for the reminder.  I think everything will be ready for sending the 
board resolution to the general list after we get a userid from Dmitri.  I 
went ahead and changed all of the bold parts on the resolution wiki page to 
normal fonts.

Josh

On Monday, June 04, 2012 1:31:26 PM Kevan Miller wrote:
 If we are to graduate this month, we're running short on time. I don't
 recall a vote being sent to general@
 
 --kevan
- -- 
- ---
Josh Thompson
VCL Developer
North Carolina State University

my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu

All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
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Re: Graduation

2012-05-16 Thread Josh Thompson
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 6:14 PM, Kevan Miller kevan.mil...@gmail.com wrote:

 On May 14, 2012, at 9:54 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:


 On May 12, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:



 To record my perspective -- I will support graduation as a TLP. I do not, 
 however, intend to continue my participation in the community. I may 
 monitor mailing lists from time-to-time, but do not wish to be a 
 committer/PMC member.

 I too think its time and support graduation to TLP.  Kevan also represents 
 my intention wrt to involvement.

 It's customary for a mentor to stay on for a quarter or two to monitor the 
 project and make sure that there's a smooth transition.  It's not clear to 
 me that this is the role that you and Kevan intend to fulfill.  If so, 
 great.  If not, I can hang around until the apron strings are fully cut.

 Thanks Alan.

 I plan on following mailing lists and monitoring the community. As a member, 
 i'll also follow the private@ mailing list. However, I would really rather 
 not have a formal responsibility of PMC member. Perhaps shirking my 
 responsibilities, but I'm already on too many PMC's for projects I've 
 mentored. Harder to quit once I've started… Easier to avoid at the start.

 --kevan

Kevan,

I don't consider it shirking your responsibility to not continue on the PMC.

Alan, Kevan, and Matt,

We really appreciate your help to our project and community as our
mentors.  I doubt you had any idea your commitment to us as mentors
would be for as long as it has been.  Thanks for all the time and
effort you have put into mentoring us in the Apache Way!  It is
totally understandable if you want to cut strings with us as soon as
we graduate.  We would appreciate any input you have in the few months
after we graduate but understand if you want to limit that commitment.

Josh


Re: Graduation

2012-05-16 Thread Aaron Peeler
My thoughts exactly. Thanks to each of you for your advice and mentoring.

Best Regards,
Aaron

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Josh Thompson josh_thomp...@ncsu.edu wrote:
 On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 6:14 PM, Kevan Miller kevan.mil...@gmail.com wrote:

 On May 14, 2012, at 9:54 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:


 On May 12, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:



 To record my perspective -- I will support graduation as a TLP. I do not, 
 however, intend to continue my participation in the community. I may 
 monitor mailing lists from time-to-time, but do not wish to be a 
 committer/PMC member.

 I too think its time and support graduation to TLP.  Kevan also represents 
 my intention wrt to involvement.

 It's customary for a mentor to stay on for a quarter or two to monitor the 
 project and make sure that there's a smooth transition.  It's not clear to 
 me that this is the role that you and Kevan intend to fulfill.  If so, 
 great.  If not, I can hang around until the apron strings are fully cut.

 Thanks Alan.

 I plan on following mailing lists and monitoring the community. As a member, 
 i'll also follow the private@ mailing list. However, I would really rather 
 not have a formal responsibility of PMC member. Perhaps shirking my 
 responsibilities, but I'm already on too many PMC's for projects I've 
 mentored. Harder to quit once I've started… Easier to avoid at the start.

 --kevan

 Kevan,

 I don't consider it shirking your responsibility to not continue on the PMC.

 Alan, Kevan, and Matt,

 We really appreciate your help to our project and community as our
 mentors.  I doubt you had any idea your commitment to us as mentors
 would be for as long as it has been.  Thanks for all the time and
 effort you have put into mentoring us in the Apache Way!  It is
 totally understandable if you want to cut strings with us as soon as
 we graduate.  We would appreciate any input you have in the few months
 after we graduate but understand if you want to limit that commitment.

 Josh



-- 
Aaron Peeler
Program Manager
Virtual Computing Lab
NC State University

All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.


Re: Graduation

2012-05-15 Thread Kevan Miller

On May 14, 2012, at 9:54 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:

 
 On May 12, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
 
 
 
 To record my perspective -- I will support graduation as a TLP. I do not, 
 however, intend to continue my participation in the community. I may 
 monitor mailing lists from time-to-time, but do not wish to be a 
 committer/PMC member.
 
 I too think its time and support graduation to TLP.  Kevan also represents 
 my intention wrt to involvement.  
 
 It's customary for a mentor to stay on for a quarter or two to monitor the 
 project and make sure that there's a smooth transition.  It's not clear to me 
 that this is the role that you and Kevan intend to fulfill.  If so, great.  
 If not, I can hang around until the apron strings are fully cut.

Thanks Alan.

I plan on following mailing lists and monitoring the community. As a member, 
i'll also follow the private@ mailing list. However, I would really rather not 
have a formal responsibility of PMC member. Perhaps shirking my 
responsibilities, but I'm already on too many PMC's for projects I've mentored. 
Harder to quit once I've started… Easier to avoid at the start.

--kevan

Re: Graduation

2012-05-14 Thread Alan D. Cabrera

On May 12, 2012, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

 
 
 To record my perspective -- I will support graduation as a TLP. I do not, 
 however, intend to continue my participation in the community. I may monitor 
 mailing lists from time-to-time, but do not wish to be a committer/PMC 
 member.
 
 I too think its time and support graduation to TLP.  Kevan also represents my 
 intention wrt to involvement.  

It's customary for a mentor to stay on for a quarter or two to monitor the 
project and make sure that there's a smooth transition.  It's not clear to me 
that this is the role that you and Kevan intend to fulfill.  If so, great.  If 
not, I can hang around until the apron strings are fully cut.


Regards,
Alan

 

Re: Graduation

2012-05-12 Thread Matt Hogstrom

 
 To record my perspective -- I will support graduation as a TLP. I do not, 
 however, intend to continue my participation in the community. I may monitor 
 mailing lists from time-to-time, but do not wish to be a committer/PMC member.

I too think its time and support graduation to TLP.  Kevan also represents my 
intention wrt to involvement.  


Matt Hogstrom
m...@hogstrom.org

A Day Without Nuclear Fusion Is a Day Without Sunshine

On May 8, 2012, at 11:01 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:


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Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail


Re: Graduation

2012-05-08 Thread Aaron Peeler
Hi Dmitri,

No apologies necessary. This is a good and important question.

The graduation is the process in which a incubator project becomes a
Top Level Project (TLP). The graduation means that a project has shown
that it (as a community) understands the Apache Software Foundation's
core principles.
Also known as The Apache Way.
While this is not a complete official list, the principles include:
* collaborative software development
* commercial-friendly license
* respective, honest, technical-based interaction
* faithful implementation of standards
* security as a mandatory feature
See this for more info on how ASF works
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html


My slightly longer answer.

Within Apache Software Foundation there is a entry path in which a
project/community shows that it, (as a whole) can be self-sustaining
and operates under The Apache Way.

This entry path is through what is called the incubator and this is
our current state.

In incubator status, we as a community, learn the principles (The
Apache way) by doing. With the assistance of our mentors, such as
Kevan, Alan, and Matt. We learn the core principles mentioned above,
how to grow a healthy and diverse community, how to properly cut
releases through Apache software Foundation, handle intelectual
property through the community contributions, and learn the principle
of meritocracy (government by merit) through the process of inviting
community members who have contributed and are interested to become
committers and be part of the project governing process, etc.

Once we have reached the incubator milestones, we can then proceed to
graduate. Through the graduation process an incubator project either
becomes a subproject of another ASF project or a top level project.

If we fail to do these tasks or if the project fizzles out, then the
incubator project retires from Apache Software foundation and is not
supported by ASF.

Hope this helps and others please feel free to comment.
Most of this is my summation from:

How ASF works and short history:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html

Incubator Graduation:
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html

What is Graduation?
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#introduction

Roles of incubator
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html


Aaron


On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Dmitri Chebotarov dcheb...@gmu.edu wrote:
 Hi,

 May I ask what are the benefits of graduation for VCL?
 How does graduation change the way the VCL is used?

 I apologize if these are trivial questions.

 Thanks.
 --
 Dmitri Chebotarov
 Virtual Computing Lab Systems Engineer, TSD - Ent Servers  Messaging
 223 Aquia Building, Ffx, MSN: 1B5
 Phone: (703) 993-6175
 Fax: (703) 993-3404


 On Monday, May 7, 2012 at 16:39 , Kevan Miller wrote:


 On May 7, 2012, at 3:53 PM, Alexander Patterson wrote:

  I would love to see 2.3 to graduate :) I will enjoy many of the bug fixes

 Thanks Alexander. Minor point - a 2.3 release is orthogonal to the 
 graduation process. A 2.3 release can happen before or after graduation…

 There's a 'status of 2.3 release' thread on the vcl-dev list. You're more 
 than welcome to voice your 2.3 desires, there...

 --kevan





-- 
Aaron Peeler
Program Manager
Virtual Computing Lab
NC State University

All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.


Re: Graduation

2012-05-08 Thread Andy Kurth
Good explanation Aaron.

Regarding the benefits of graduating -- I don't know if there are any
tangible benefits but in my opinion there are some intangible
benefits:
- The Apache brand is pretty well-known and prestigious.  They don't
accept just any old open-source project as an official project, let
alone as a podling.  We will be in very good company with the other
ASF projects.
- Graduating and becoming a top-level project will help promote Apache
VCL.  I'm hopeful that VCL adoption and the growth of our development
community will accelerate.
- We don't have to pack up and find a new home elsewhere :)

Graduating will not and should not change the way VCL is used or how
the community operates.  Upon successful graduation, there are some
administrative tasks that need to be done but the day-to-day community
activity shouldn't change.  I think this is the main point for the
whole process.  Once the community demonstrates that it is diverse,
viable, and aligned with the ASF philosophy and policies, it graduates
and continues to operate in the same manner.

-Andy

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Aaron Peeler fapee...@ncsu.edu wrote:
 Hi Dmitri,

 No apologies necessary. This is a good and important question.

 The graduation is the process in which a incubator project becomes a
 Top Level Project (TLP). The graduation means that a project has shown
 that it (as a community) understands the Apache Software Foundation's
 core principles.
 Also known as The Apache Way.
 While this is not a complete official list, the principles include:
 * collaborative software development
 * commercial-friendly license
 * respective, honest, technical-based interaction
 * faithful implementation of standards
 * security as a mandatory feature
 See this for more info on how ASF works
 http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html


 My slightly longer answer.

 Within Apache Software Foundation there is a entry path in which a
 project/community shows that it, (as a whole) can be self-sustaining
 and operates under The Apache Way.

 This entry path is through what is called the incubator and this is
 our current state.

 In incubator status, we as a community, learn the principles (The
 Apache way) by doing. With the assistance of our mentors, such as
 Kevan, Alan, and Matt. We learn the core principles mentioned above,
 how to grow a healthy and diverse community, how to properly cut
 releases through Apache software Foundation, handle intelectual
 property through the community contributions, and learn the principle
 of meritocracy (government by merit) through the process of inviting
 community members who have contributed and are interested to become
 committers and be part of the project governing process, etc.

 Once we have reached the incubator milestones, we can then proceed to
 graduate. Through the graduation process an incubator project either
 becomes a subproject of another ASF project or a top level project.

 If we fail to do these tasks or if the project fizzles out, then the
 incubator project retires from Apache Software foundation and is not
 supported by ASF.

 Hope this helps and others please feel free to comment.
 Most of this is my summation from:

 How ASF works and short history:
 http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html

 Incubator Graduation:
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html

 What is Graduation?
 http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#introduction

 Roles of incubator
 http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html


 Aaron


 On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Dmitri Chebotarov dcheb...@gmu.edu wrote:
 Hi,

 May I ask what are the benefits of graduation for VCL?
 How does graduation change the way the VCL is used?

 I apologize if these are trivial questions.

 Thanks.
 --
 Dmitri Chebotarov
 Virtual Computing Lab Systems Engineer, TSD - Ent Servers  Messaging
 223 Aquia Building, Ffx, MSN: 1B5
 Phone: (703) 993-6175
 Fax: (703) 993-3404


 On Monday, May 7, 2012 at 16:39 , Kevan Miller wrote:


 On May 7, 2012, at 3:53 PM, Alexander Patterson wrote:

  I would love to see 2.3 to graduate :) I will enjoy many of the bug fixes

 Thanks Alexander. Minor point - a 2.3 release is orthogonal to the 
 graduation process. A 2.3 release can happen before or after graduation…

 There's a 'status of 2.3 release' thread on the vcl-dev list. You're more 
 than welcome to voice your 2.3 desires, there...

 --kevan





 --
 Aaron Peeler
 Program Manager
 Virtual Computing Lab
 NC State University

 All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
 are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
 Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.


Re: Graduation

2012-05-08 Thread Kevan Miller

On May 8, 2012, at 10:33 AM, Andy Kurth wrote:

 Graduating will not and should not change the way VCL is used or how
 the community operates.  Upon successful graduation, there are some
 administrative tasks that need to be done but the day-to-day community
 activity shouldn't change.  I think this is the main point for the
 whole process.  Once the community demonstrates that it is diverse,
 viable, and aligned with the ASF philosophy and policies, it graduates
 and continues to operate in the same manner.

Well put Aaron and Andy. 

Process-wise -- currently the Apache Incubator PMC is performing oversight of 
the VCL project. After graduation as a Top Level Project, the VCL PMC will be 
in charge of this oversight. This reduces some administrative bureaucracy, but 
also increases the importance of the oversight provided by the VCL PMC 
(responsibilities they are already fulfilling). Incubation is not permanent and 
must end with either graduation or retirement. VCL is quite old by Incubation 
standards, but we've reached a good place. 

To record my perspective -- I will support graduation as a TLP. I do not, 
however, intend to continue my participation in the community. I may monitor 
mailing lists from time-to-time, but do not wish to be a committer/PMC member.

--kevan

Re: Graduation Thoughts

2012-03-17 Thread Alan D. Cabrera

On Mar 16, 2012, at 1:36 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:

 Guys, 
 
 I've been an absent mentor and am catching up on e-mail.  In looking at VCL 
 it seems like you're kinda past time to graduate.  Kind of like a 26-year-old 
 college Student living at home :) 
 
 Thoughts on kicking off the process? 

Do you feel there's sufficient diversity?  It seems to me that if NCSU pulls 
their engineers off the project it will be dead in the water.  I'd like to know 
what your opinion is on this.

Other than that I feel that it's an excellent project and ready for graduation.


Regards,
Alan

 

Re: Graduation?

2011-09-09 Thread Kevan Miller

On Sep 8, 2011, at 2:07 PM, Josh Thompson wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Is there a place where such features are listed?
 
 thanks
 Art
 
 There are 2 places for these types of features to be listed right now.  One 
 is 
 to look at the roadmap listed on the latest release page.  However, those 
 features are more high level and rather involved.
 
 The other is in our JIRA system.  Anyone can create new issues there.  There 
 are various types of issues that can be created, most notable are:
 
 Bug
 Improvement
 New Feature
 
 So, what I would suggest is to create a New Feature issue for anything 
 you'd 
 like to see added to VCL.  Issues can be voted on.  Anyone else wanting the 
 same feature can vote for them so that they become a higher priority to the 
 rest of the community.

Good discussions. 

A good time to review -- 
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community

Also, http://incubator.apache.org/guides/community.html Particularly 
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/community.html#notes-community

Active committers -- the easier you can make it for someone to contribute, the 
more people will help. It seems there is a good user base. You need to help 
foster developers/contributors in this community:

* actively advertise things that need to be done
* don't fix everything (especially simpler tasks that are good for newcomers)
* praise contributions
* ask, beg, borrow for contributions
* use social media -- twitter, facebook, etc.
* is there a VCL irc channel? if not, consider using one
* freshen up the web site -- http://incubator.apache.org/vcl/

Note that contributions need not be in the form of code. Documentation, web 
site, answering user questions -- all are valuable contributions to the 
community.

--kevan

Re: Graduation?

2011-09-08 Thread Josh Thompson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thursday September 08, 2011, Kevan Miller wrote:
 On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:55 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
  On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:
  It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion.
  
  I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in hearing
  the thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for
  graduation? Or is additional work required? If there are requirements
  to be met, what is being done to address these requirements?
  incubation is not a permanent process. If we're lacking aspects
  required for graduation and not making progressing on addressing these
  issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending the graduation
  process…
  
  I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good.  I wish
  there were some diversity.  This project has most of it's members being
  NCSU employees and I'l worried that if NCSU pulled the plug on their
  efforts the project would not survive.
  
  As it stands the project would not have my support for graduation.   I'm
  not intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other viewpoints, if
  there are any.
 
 Thanks Alan. I think we're largely in agreement. I've been encouraged by
 the level of activity and discussions within the community.
 
 I share the diversity concern (it's my only concern, at the moment). Like
 you, I'd be reluctant to support graduation without some growth and
 additional participation in the community. Unfortunately, we've been in
 this state for a while and I'm worried that it isn't going to change
 anytime soon...
 
 --kevan

The diversity issue has been my concern since we moved the codebase to ASF.  I 
do think the community will eventually grow enough to not be dependent on a 
single institution's involvement.  It's just a really slow process to get 
there.  VCL is a large system, and it's not something a developer would just 
decide to jump in and start working on without having the infrastructure to 
run it and a set of users to use it.

The community is slowly growing, first in users, and now in people 
contributing smaller bits of code.  It's only a matter of time before the 
people that are contributing smaller bits of code start contributing larger 
stuff.  At that time, we'll have enough support to graduate.  To me, the only 
question is, how long is ASF willing to wait for this to happen?  If that's 
another year, maybe 2, then I think we'll make it.  If it's only a few more 
months, then I'm not so sure.

Josh
- -- 
- ---
Josh Thompson
VCL Developer
North Carolina State University

my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu
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Re: Graduation?

2011-09-08 Thread Art Vandenberg
I concur with the thoughts on this.  At Georgia State I am working  
with Computer Science (I am in IT) to build up some resources that can  
move toward contributor level.  It is a somewhat gradual process,  
but I think we are moving in the right direction.


Would it be useful to consider listing a set of known feature  
requests so that we could use that as Challenges to computer  
science (students, post-docs...)?


I've thought of several, but not really sure how important they  
might be - other than being bite-sized items that would engage  
students, and get them started (i.e. develop code on our own devl  
system, pass up for review and perhaps incorporation, and so to  
eventually gain additional contributors.)


For instance:
   a) Provide option on the VCL Statistics so that one can download  
resource management traces, e.g. to CSV file.
 Aaron Peeler was kind enough to send us a sql query (6/22/2011  
email) he's used.  My thought would be that students would use that as  
start and implement an option to download based on this (e.g. user  
selectable option).  While the SQL Query is already done (Aaron) and  
the feature may be somewhat trivial, it could serve to get students  
involved.


   b) A feature that Kelly Robinson asked about the other day  
(8/31/2011 email) Block Allocation request.  Can this be limited so  
that only those within a particular group (faculty) can make the  
request? Mike Waldron's reply (8/31) was I don't know a way to  
restrict this function to specific users. Looks like it would require  
a coding change for the frontend. That might be another feature of  
interest.


I know that Henry Schaffer has mentioned a feature's request list (way  
to manage image list for instance).


Is there a place where such features are listed?

thanks
Art


On Sep 8, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thursday September 08, 2011, Kevan Miller wrote:

On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:55 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:

On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:

It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion.

I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in  
hearing

the thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for
graduation? Or is additional work required? If there are  
requirements

to be met, what is being done to address these requirements?
incubation is not a permanent process. If we're lacking aspects
required for graduation and not making progressing on addressing  
these
issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending the  
graduation

process…


I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good.   
I wish
there were some diversity.  This project has most of it's members  
being
NCSU employees and I'l worried that if NCSU pulled the plug on  
their

efforts the project would not survive.

As it stands the project would not have my support for  
graduation.   I'm
not intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other  
viewpoints, if

there are any.


Thanks Alan. I think we're largely in agreement. I've been  
encouraged by

the level of activity and discussions within the community.

I share the diversity concern (it's my only concern, at the  
moment). Like

you, I'd be reluctant to support graduation without some growth and
additional participation in the community. Unfortunately, we've  
been in

this state for a while and I'm worried that it isn't going to change
anytime soon...

--kevan


The diversity issue has been my concern since we moved the codebase  
to ASF.  I
do think the community will eventually grow enough to not be  
dependent on a
single institution's involvement.  It's just a really slow process  
to get
there.  VCL is a large system, and it's not something a developer  
would just
decide to jump in and start working on without having the  
infrastructure to

run it and a set of users to use it.

The community is slowly growing, first in users, and now in people
contributing smaller bits of code.  It's only a matter of time  
before the
people that are contributing smaller bits of code start contributing  
larger
stuff.  At that time, we'll have enough support to graduate.  To me,  
the only
question is, how long is ASF willing to wait for this to happen?  If  
that's
another year, maybe 2, then I think we'll make it.  If it's only a  
few more

months, then I'm not so sure.

Josh
- --
- ---
Josh Thompson
VCL Developer
North Carolina State University

my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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=oKdr
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



Art Vandenberg
Account Manager/Research Function
Customer Relations, IST
Information Systems  Technology
Georgia State University
avandenb...@gsu.edu
+1 404 413 4743
MS Information  Computer Science, Georgia Tech
MVA 

Re: Graduation?

2011-09-08 Thread Mark Gardner
I too am ramping up a pilot here at Virginia Tech and expect to be able to
contribute more in the future. I have incomplete code for the frontend that
adds support for IPv6. (I have also fixed a bug in IPv4 validity checking
which I need to check in but the fix is in the context of the IPv6 code.) I
will be moving on to the backend IPv6 code next. I would request that the
Foundation to be generous in allowing the project to continue flowering. I
think we will get there.

Mark

On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Art Vandenberg avandenb...@gsu.edu wrote:

 I concur with the thoughts on this.  At Georgia State I am working with
 Computer Science (I am in IT) to build up some resources that can move
 toward contributor level.  It is a somewhat gradual process, but I think
 we are moving in the right direction.

 Would it be useful to consider listing a set of known feature requests so
 that we could use that as Challenges to computer science (students,
 post-docs...)?

 I've thought of several, but not really sure how important they might be
 - other than being bite-sized items that would engage students, and get them
 started (i.e. develop code on our own devl system, pass up for review and
 perhaps incorporation, and so to eventually gain additional contributors.)

 For instance:
   a) Provide option on the VCL Statistics so that one can download resource
 management traces, e.g. to CSV file.
 Aaron Peeler was kind enough to send us a sql query (6/22/2011 email)
 he's used.  My thought would be that students would use that as start and
 implement an option to download based on this (e.g. user selectable option).
  While the SQL Query is already done (Aaron) and the feature may be somewhat
 trivial, it could serve to get students involved.

   b) A feature that Kelly Robinson asked about the other day (8/31/2011
 email) Block Allocation request.  Can this be limited so that only those
 within a particular group (faculty) can make the request? Mike Waldron's
 reply (8/31) was I don't know a way to restrict this function to specific
 users. Looks like it would require a coding change for the frontend. That
 might be another feature of interest.

 I know that Henry Schaffer has mentioned a feature's request list (way to
 manage image list for instance).

 Is there a place where such features are listed?

 thanks
 Art



 On Sep 8, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:

  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On Thursday September 08, 2011, Kevan Miller wrote:

 On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:55 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:

 On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:

 It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion.

 I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in
 hearing
 the thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for
 graduation? Or is additional work required? If there are requirements
 to be met, what is being done to address these requirements?
 incubation is not a permanent process. If we're lacking aspects
 required for graduation and not making progressing on addressing these
 issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending the graduation
 process…


 I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good.  I
 wish
 there were some diversity.  This project has most of it's members being
 NCSU employees and I'l worried that if NCSU pulled the plug on their
 efforts the project would not survive.

 As it stands the project would not have my support for graduation.   I'm
 not intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other viewpoints, if
 there are any.


 Thanks Alan. I think we're largely in agreement. I've been encouraged by
 the level of activity and discussions within the community.

 I share the diversity concern (it's my only concern, at the moment). Like
 you, I'd be reluctant to support graduation without some growth and
 additional participation in the community. Unfortunately, we've been in
 this state for a while and I'm worried that it isn't going to change
 anytime soon...

 --kevan


 The diversity issue has been my concern since we moved the codebase to
 ASF.  I
 do think the community will eventually grow enough to not be dependent on
 a
 single institution's involvement.  It's just a really slow process to get
 there.  VCL is a large system, and it's not something a developer would
 just
 decide to jump in and start working on without having the infrastructure
 to
 run it and a set of users to use it.

 The community is slowly growing, first in users, and now in people
 contributing smaller bits of code.  It's only a matter of time before the
 people that are contributing smaller bits of code start contributing
 larger
 stuff.  At that time, we'll have enough support to graduate.  To me, the
 only
 question is, how long is ASF willing to wait for this to happen?  If
 that's
 another year, maybe 2, then I think we'll make it.  If it's only a few
 more
 months, then I'm not so sure.

 Josh
 - --
 - 

Re: Graduation?

2011-09-08 Thread Josh Thompson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

 Is there a place where such features are listed?
 
 thanks
 Art

There are 2 places for these types of features to be listed right now.  One is 
to look at the roadmap listed on the latest release page.  However, those 
features are more high level and rather involved.

The other is in our JIRA system.  Anyone can create new issues there.  There 
are various types of issues that can be created, most notable are:

Bug
Improvement
New Feature

So, what I would suggest is to create a New Feature issue for anything you'd 
like to see added to VCL.  Issues can be voted on.  Anyone else wanting the 
same feature can vote for them so that they become a higher priority to the 
rest of the community.

Josh
- -- 
- ---
Josh Thompson
VCL Developer
North Carolina State University

my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu
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Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux)

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-END PGP SIGNATURE-


Re: Graduation?

2011-09-08 Thread Art Vandenberg

thanks.  Will look to JIRA then.
Art

On Sep 8, 2011, at 2:07 PM, Josh Thompson wrote:


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


Is there a place where such features are listed?

thanks
Art


There are 2 places for these types of features to be listed right  
now.  One is
to look at the roadmap listed on the latest release page.  However,  
those

features are more high level and rather involved.

The other is in our JIRA system.  Anyone can create new issues  
there.  There

are various types of issues that can be created, most notable are:

Bug
Improvement
New Feature

So, what I would suggest is to create a New Feature issue for  
anything you'd
like to see added to VCL.  Issues can be voted on.  Anyone else  
wanting the
same feature can vote for them so that they become a higher priority  
to the

rest of the community.

Josh
- --
- ---
Josh Thompson
VCL Developer
North Carolina State University

my GPG/PGP key can be found at pgp.mit.edu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux)

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0RMAnRMFIhbcL3ioR04BuHUgUwf72ATq
=jhXc
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



Art Vandenberg
Account Manager/Research Function
Customer Relations, IST
Information Systems  Technology
Georgia State University
avandenb...@gsu.edu
+1 404 413 4743
MS Information  Computer Science, Georgia Tech
MVA Painting  Drawing, Georgia State
Web page: http://www.gsu.edu/ist/acs/25735.html





Re: Graduation?

2011-09-08 Thread Alan D. Cabrera

On Sep 6, 2011, at 10:22 AM, James O'Dell wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 On 9/4/2011 4:55 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
 
 On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:
 
 It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion. 
 
 I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in hearing 
 the thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for graduation? 
 Or is additional work required? If there are requirements to be met, what 
 is being done to address these requirements? incubation is not a 
 permanent process. If we're lacking aspects required for graduation and not 
 making progressing on addressing these issues, we need to consider the 
 alternative of ending the graduation process…
 
 I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good.  I wish 
 there were some diversity.  This project has most of it's members being NCSU 
 employees and I'l worried that if NCSU pulled the plug on their efforts 
 the project would not survive.
 
 As it stands the project would not have my support for graduation.   I'm not 
 intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other viewpoints, if there 
 are any. 
 
 
 Regards,
 Alan
 
 
 I certainly see NCSU as the leader in VCL, and I do see their
 continued support as key to the success of the project.
 I'm just wondering if the project were to graduate(It certainly
 seems stable enough to), if that wouldn't generate more diversity
 via greater exposure.

Unfortunately the diversity must be there before it graduates.  We can't 
graduate the polling and hope for the best, this is what the Incubator is all 
about.

 As a point, our vice president of information technology is
 scheduled to give a presentation at EduCause this October.
 VCL is his the topic. I'm hoping this will generate some buzz.

I'm happy to wait until October to see if the rest of the project does as well. 
 However, I think we face the fact that this project has been around for quite 
a long time and has not attracted new committers.  Maybe the project could park 
at GitHub, or somewhere, and if and when the it becomes diverse enough it could 
come back; if it still wanted to.


Regards,
Alan





Re: Graduation?

2011-09-06 Thread Aaron Peeler
I agree with the diversity point and would also like to see more
diversity among the community developers.

I don't see NCSU stopping our efforts on VCL development, but that is
just my view point.  NCSU has a great deal invested in our time,
resources, and other research projects using VCL services. In addition
the NCSU population would not be very happy if VCL was discontinued.
Our usage numbers for last week hit close to 6000 reservations for
over 2500 users.

Anyone in the community who is interested in getting more involved in
the development process, please don't hesitate to speak up either on
the list(preferred method) or directly to any of the active
developers(myself, Andy Kurth, or Josh Thompson). We can guide you
through the process of getting more involved. We'd love to hear from
you.

Thanks,
Aaron


On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Alan D. Cabrera l...@toolazydogs.com wrote:

 On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:

 It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion.

 I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in hearing the 
 thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for graduation? Or is 
 additional work required? If there are requirements to be met, what is being 
 done to address these requirements? incubation is not a permanent process. 
 If we're lacking aspects required for graduation and not making progressing 
 on addressing these issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending 
 the graduation process…

 I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good.  I wish 
 there were some diversity.  This project has most of it's members being NCSU 
 employees and I'l worried that if NCSU pulled the plug on their efforts the 
 project would not survive.

 As it stands the project would not have my support for graduation.   I'm not 
 intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other viewpoints, if there are 
 any.


 Regards,
 Alan





-- 
Aaron Peeler
Program Manager
Virtual Computing Lab
NC State University

All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which
are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public
Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.


Re: Graduation?

2011-09-06 Thread James O'Dell
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 9/4/2011 4:55 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
 
 On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:
 
 It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion. 

 I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in hearing the 
 thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for graduation? Or is 
 additional work required? If there are requirements to be met, what is being 
 done to address these requirements? incubation is not a permanent process. 
 If we're lacking aspects required for graduation and not making progressing 
 on addressing these issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending 
 the graduation process…
 
 I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good.  I wish 
 there were some diversity.  This project has most of it's members being NCSU 
 employees and I'l worried that if NCSU pulled the plug on their efforts the 
 project would not survive.
 
 As it stands the project would not have my support for graduation.   I'm not 
 intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other viewpoints, if there are 
 any. 
 
 
 Regards,
 Alan
 

I certainly see NCSU as the leader in VCL, and I do see their
continued support as key to the success of the project.
I'm just wondering if the project were to graduate(It certainly
seems stable enough to), if that wouldn't generate more diversity
via greater exposure.

As a point, our vice president of information technology is
scheduled to give a presentation at EduCause this October.
VCL is his the topic. I'm hoping this will generate some buzz.

__Jim

- -- 
Jim O'Dell
Network Analyst
California State University Fullerton
Email: jod...@fullerton.edu
Phone: (657) 278-2256
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Re: Graduation?

2011-09-04 Thread Alan D. Cabrera

On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Kevan Miller wrote:

 It's been a while since we've had a graduation discussion. 
 
 I've seen good progress in the community. Would be interested in hearing the 
 thoughts of others. Do we feel the community is ready for graduation? Or is 
 additional work required? If there are requirements to be met, what is being 
 done to address these requirements? incubation is not a permanent process. 
 If we're lacking aspects required for graduation and not making progressing 
 on addressing these issues, we need to consider the alternative of ending the 
 graduation process…

I think that the community activity on this group is pretty good.  I wish there 
were some diversity.  This project has most of it's members being NCSU 
employees and I'l worried that if NCSU pulled the plug on their efforts the 
project would not survive.

As it stands the project would not have my support for graduation.   I'm not 
intransigent on this and am willing to discuss other viewpoints, if there are 
any. 


Regards,
Alan