On 01/01/2013 09:52 PM, Lars Hanisch wrote:
[...]
I must confess that normally threads at a forum are easier to read and
understand as mailing list threads in any
mail-archive. First you have to found such an archive (or have to know that
something like that even exists) and then
it's
On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 8:52 PM, Lars Hanisch d...@flensrocker.de wrote:
This is an invitation: Please create more posts in english at vdr-portal! If
a critical mass is passed it will be
easier for the ones coming past us. Sure there's only a small international
part, but it is there. And of
Den 02.01.2013 15:54, skrev Morfsta:
Perhaps a sticky at the top of the forum discussing and encouraging
the use of English for non-German speaking users would help and giving
some guidance on the best way to approach it, so as to avoid flames.
Yes, please! Or just It's OK to post in English /
Am 02.01.2013 19:19, schrieb Vidar Tyldum:
Den 02.01.2013 15:54, skrev Morfsta:
Perhaps a sticky at the top of the forum discussing and encouraging
the use of English for non-German speaking users would help and giving
some guidance on the best way to approach it, so as to avoid flames.
I couldn't realize that there are so many non-German VDR users.
I personally don't like to write English. Not because I hate the
language, more because I'm worried to do something wrong (grammer,
tenses etc.)
Christopher
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On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Christopher Reimer
c.reimer1...@gmail.com wrote:
I couldn't realize that there are so many non-German VDR users.
On one hand I guess I understand considering Germany is VDR's
birthplace and has strong support there. But on the other hand, if VDR
is so popular
Al 30/12/12 01:08, En/na Christopher Reimer ha escrit:
I don't consider the mailinglist as central spot of developement.
Here I'm forced to speak English. Almost all VDR Users are German. And
in VDR-Portal I reach the critical mass. With the addition that I am
allowed to speak my native
Am 01.01.2013 13:40, schrieb Luca Olivetti:
Al 30/12/12 01:08, En/na Christopher Reimer ha escrit:
I don't consider the mailinglist as central spot of developement.
Here I'm forced to speak English. Almost all VDR Users are German. And
in VDR-Portal I reach the critical mass. With the
31.12.2012 00:54, fnu:
As good as vdrportal is as a VDR resource, the language barrier _is_ a
problem for english speakers.
Same with this mailing list for german speakers ... and now?
English isn't just for the British and Americans. I realize that if I start
a VDR forum/mailing-list and
On 31.12.2012 09:29, Vidar Tyldum wrote:
...
It would be nice to hear what Klaus prefers as the main development channel
(notice: *main* development channel, not the only channel).
Well, I always considered the VDR mailing list to be the main development
channel. But with the recent shitstorm
Den 31.12.2012 09:35, skrev Klaus Schmidinger:
Well, I always considered the VDR mailing list to be the main development
channel. But with the recent shitstorm I'm having second thoughts...
Take it as a compliment.
It just goes to show how many have come to rely on VDR and that there is an
by VDR User user@gmail.com
but I guess your friends disagree.
Not only my friends, e.g. one guy of an international customer, a US citizen
living in Germany since 10-15 years, is not willing to talk in german with
us. Just another example, but even our famous foreign workers from all over
von Klaus Schmidinger
But with the recent shitstorm I'm having second thoughts...
Hmm, I had also read shitstorms, this does have a different quality. I would
also take it positiv, nobody is questioning your execellent work, in
contrary, a lot of do take part of it and are interessted in. So,
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 12:35 AM, Klaus Schmidinger
klaus.schmidin...@tvdr.de wrote:
It would be nice to hear what Klaus prefers as the main development
channel
(notice: *main* development channel, not the only channel).
Well, I always considered the VDR mailing list to be the main
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 6:54 AM, fnu v...@auktion.hostingkunde.de wrote:
Not only my friends, e.g. one guy of an international customer, a US citizen
living in Germany since 10-15 years, is not willing to talk in german with
us. Just another example, but even our famous foreign workers from all
2012/12/30 fnu v...@auktion.hostingkunde.de:
And as far as I remember nobody did complain about the old Makefile
structur, and yes I mean nobody, because the two now known just changed it
w/o warning. Do what ever you need to do, I appriciate it, but remind always
some continuity for all
Am 30.12.2012 01:08, schrieb Christopher Reimer:
I don't consider the mailinglist as central spot of developement.
Here I'm forced to speak English. Almost all VDR Users are German. And
in VDR-Portal I reach the critical mass. With the addition that I am
allowed to speak my native language.
Nice 33%!!
Then tell me why was there no answer on the mailinglist thread.
No answer = everything is ok -- send patch to Klaus
2012/12/30 Gerald Dachs v...@dachsweb.de:
Am 30.12.2012 01:08, schrieb Christopher Reimer:
I don't consider the mailinglist as central spot of developement. Here
von Vidar Tyldum vi...@tyldum.com
Why are the majority of the users German - and why does it stay that way?
Is it for the greater benefit of VDR?
This is not the fault of the german users, VDR is historically a german
speaking project, initiated by a german guy, used by the biggest VDR
Am 30.12.2012 01:08, schrieb Christopher Reimer:
2012/12/29 Udo Richter udo_rich...@gmx.de:
Even if there was
an thread in vdr-portal, I did miss it, and there was no word of it in
the mailing list, which I always considered to be the central spot of
development.
Really?
+1
ML is the most usable for French users, even if I understand a little bit
German for my part, technical discussion is difficult to understand and google
translator is funny sometimes applied to vdr portal.
Regarding French forum having vdr section, regarding their technical skills,
user
As good as vdrportal is as a VDR resource, the language barrier _is_ a
problem for english speakers.
Same with this mailing list for german speakers ... and now?
or feeling like a welcome visitor/member
A little tale, if I'm in the US, I have to speak english all time. If my US
friends do
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:54 PM, fnu v...@auktion.hostingkunde.de wrote:
As good as vdrportal is as a VDR resource, the language barrier _is_ a
problem for english speakers.
Same with this mailing list for german speakers ... and now?
I don't recall any german speakers ever expressing a
Udo Richter wrote:
Being actively developed and being needed are two different things. I wouldn't
want to drop all the plugins that aren't under active development any more, as
this would probably be true for 2/3 of my plugins.
If there is really a need for that special unsupported plugin,
If there is really a need for that special unsupported plugin, then the best way
to go would be that at least one of all those distributions, who currently
maintains that plugin, republishes it somewhere (AFAIR
projects.vdr-developer.org was invented for that?).
First step could be to apply all
Klaus Schmidinger wrote:
Never in my wildest dreams would I have expected such an outrage about this
change, which was entirely intended to make things simpler in the future.
But if this is not what people want, then let's just stick with the old
Makefiles and declare version 1.7.34 a complete
OK. 50 plugins doesn't sound impossible to deal with. But they have to
be in one place, as Manuel mentioned.
Name these 50 unmaintained plugins and then we can check when and how
they'll be moved to vdr-developer.org.
Christopher
2012/12/29 Helmut Auer v...@helmutauer.de:
If there is really
Helmut Auer wrote:
We are talking about 100 Plugins. Maybe we can drop the half of these but 50
will be remaining ...
No problem. Let's start a discussion about this in a separate thread. I bet that
about 20 more plugins aren't worth the effort and so about 30 plugins will be
left. Porting
On 12/29/2012 01:14 PM, Helmut Auer wrote:
If there is really a need for that special unsupported plugin, then
the best way
to go would be that at least one of all those distributions, who
currently
maintains that plugin, republishes it somewhere (AFAIR
projects.vdr-developer.org was invented
On 12/29/2012 01:07 PM, Manuel Reimer wrote:
[..]
In context of a plugin, VDR should be something like a backend
library. It has to be installed, but the plugin should be compilable
from *everywhere* as long as the backend library is there.
This is why pkg-config was invented and this is how
von Manuel Reimer manuel.rei...@gmx.de
The changes in 1.7.34 are a big change into the right direction!
FullAck, but really at that time of 1.7.xx? At this time where 1.7.xx is
more less saddled by all HDTV users?
Many new festures have been postponed after V2 release. Some of them
wouldn't
On 29.12.2012 17:52, fnu wrote:
von Manuel Reimer manuel.rei...@gmx.de
The changes in 1.7.34 are a big change into the right direction!
FullAck, but really at that time of 1.7.xx? At this time where 1.7.xx is
more less saddled by all HDTV users?
Many new festures have been postponed after V2
von Klaus Schmidinger klaus.schmidin...@tvdr.de
From what I have seen in this thread lately, I don't think the outcry
would have been any less then...
You're maybe right, but I'm not sure.
Because now, everybody does know, these changes will happen soon, no Plugin
for V2.1 w/o rework.
But
Am 28.12.2012 16:38, schrieb Klaus Schmidinger:
So should we go back to the Makefiles of version 1.7.33 and declare this
area of the program source untouchable forever?
Beside all the current whining (and *I* don't exclude myself from that),
it is nevertheless a step in the right direction.
2012/12/29 Udo Richter udo_rich...@gmx.de:
Even if there was
an thread in vdr-portal, I did miss it, and there was no word of it in
the mailing list, which I always considered to be the central spot of
development.
Really? http://linuxtv.org/pipermail/vdr/2012-November/026813.html
There was NO
OK. 50 plugins doesn't sound impossible to deal with. But they have to
be in one place, as Manuel mentioned.
Name these 50 unmaintained plugins and then we can check when and how
they'll be moved to vdr-developer.org.
there is a small list, ~30 plugins on
von Christopher Reimer c.reimer1...@gmail.com
Yes, I am happy with the new makefiles.
I'm glad to hear this, but what about all the other developers and users?
Developer version back and forth, VDR 1.7.xx has become silently a somewhat
stable version over the years, due to it's HDTV
On Saturday 29 December 2012 - 18:39:05, fnu wrote:
.. or maybe an in between stable release called V1.8 and go ahead with these
important changes in V1.9 ... just a thought ...
+1
Gero
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On 28.12.2012 00:43, Helmut Auer wrote:
If I don't accept patches, I'm blamed for slowing down development.
If I do accept a patch that causes a little work to adapt to (but
looks promising in the long run), I'm being offended by being compared
to Louis XIV. I guess you just can't win 'em all...
On 28.12.2012 00:47, Dominic Evans wrote:
On 27 Dec 2012, at 23:41, fnu v...@auktion.hostingkunde.de
mailto:v...@auktion.hostingkunde.de wrote:
Linux wouldn't have been that succesfull, if Linus Torvalds would not had an
ear to the needs of others, even business needs ...
A Christmas
On Friday 28 December 2012 - 09:29:01, Klaus Schmidinger wrote:
Well, Linus apparently has very strong feelings about this.
However, nowhere in that posting does it say
IF YOU BREAK USERSPACE I HATE YOU AND YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON
I guess, most of confusion and frictions comes from
On 28 December 2012 09:29, Klaus Schmidinger klaus.schmidin...@tvdr.de wrote:
IF YOU BREAK USERSPACE I HATE YOU AND YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON
So did *you* (Dominic) just make that up? I'm asking because your
posting looks just like a direct quotation from Linus, and I have
a hard time
On 28 December 2012 10:07, Gero geronimo...@gmx.de wrote:
I guess, most of confusion and frictions comes from the fact, that you use c++
as programming language, but you don't code c++ and you don't think as a c++-
developer.
Same - you developed a linux app, but you don't care about linux
Am 28.12.2012 09:28, schrieb Klaus Schmidinger:
Well, if a plugin is no longer actively maintained, it's probably
time to drop it. You know what they say about dead horses ;-).
Being actively developed and being needed are two different things. I
wouldn't want to drop all the plugins that
On 28.12.2012 14:19, Udo Richter wrote:
Am 28.12.2012 09:28, schrieb Klaus Schmidinger:
Well, if a plugin is no longer actively maintained, it's probably
time to drop it. You know what they say about dead horses ;-).
Being actively developed and being needed are two different things. I
Am 28.12.2012 14:37, schrieb Klaus Schmidinger:
On 28.12.2012 14:19, Udo Richter wrote:
Plus, any updated plugin (at least any built-in plugin) does no longer
create the *.so.$APIVERSION file, and there's no generic way to do this.
Well, then maybe this works (haven't tested it):
for i in
I don't think arguing which userspace is bigger is so important.
I'm rather silent user and use VDR a few years now.
First I compiled it from scratch because there were no other option.
Then I tried to use packages but failed. Packages were outdated, only a
few plugins in repository. No good
On 28.12.2012 14:42, Udo Richter wrote:
Am 28.12.2012 09:29, schrieb Klaus Schmidinger:
On 28.12.2012 00:47, Dominic Evans wrote:
IF YOU BREAK USERSPACE I HATE YOU AND YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON
Not breaking userspace is, of course, the right thing to do in a *stable*
version of any
On 28.12.2012 16:38, Klaus Schmidinger wrote:
On 28.12.2012 14:42, Udo Richter wrote:
Am 28.12.2012 09:29, schrieb Klaus Schmidinger:
On 28.12.2012 00:47, Dominic Evans wrote:
IF YOU BREAK USERSPACE I HATE YOU AND YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON
Not breaking userspace is, of course, the right
Am 28.12.2012 16:38, schrieb Klaus Schmidinger:
So should we go back to the Makefiles of version 1.7.33 and declare this
area of the program source untouchable forever?
+1
Gerald
!DSPAM:50ddc50a174441059718148!
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vdr@linuxtv.org
Am 28.12.2012 16:38, schrieb Klaus Schmidinger:
So should we go back to the Makefiles of version 1.7.33 and declare this
area of the program source untouchable forever?
Maybe this would be the easiest solution, and I wouldn't get bashed, offended
and insulted that much any more.
Never in my
Let's not waste more mailing list space with this nonsense.
I got it already, you're way of installation and usage of VDR is the only
valid, all others are stupid. Your statements here are the one and only
truth, even so only you are allowed to make conclusions. Yes man, you're the
very last
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 11:19 AM, fnu v...@auktion.hostingkunde.de wrote:
Let's not waste more mailing list space with this nonsense.
I got it already, you're way of installation and usage of VDR is the only
valid, all others are stupid. Your statements here are the one and only
truth, even
Hi,
Am 26.12.2012 15:54, schrieb Manuel Reimer:
I think that we should keep the possibility to configure
highlevel plugin
options from a central place like plugins.conf just as
Make.config did up to
VDR-1.7.33.
What is your plan? Do you want to build plugins the old way
inside the VDR source
On 26.12.2012 20:19, Udo Richter wrote:
...
Oh, and by the way, with introducing $(CWD) some previously relative paths got
hard coded, so moving these builds around or accessing them from different
mount points might now be broken. For example, my default lib dir changed from
./PLUGINS/lib to
Klaus Schmidinger wrote:
...still considering what to do with the plugin configuration stuff. Currently I
tend to
put a plgcfg entry into vdr.pc, since apparently everybody wants this to be
somewhere else.
I'm just glad Linux distribution managers don't build cars - otherwise we would
most
On 27.12.2012 17:22, Manuel Reimer wrote:
Klaus Schmidinger wrote:
...still considering what to do with the plugin configuration stuff. Currently I
tend to
put a plgcfg entry into vdr.pc, since apparently everybody wants this to be
somewhere else.
I'm just glad Linux distribution managers don't
Klaus Schmidinger wrote:
This was more like a general rant about Linux distributions all wanting
there files in different locations.
This is common on most Unix systems. There are common paths where specific types
of files should be placed to. If you are used to the common paths, then you'll
On 27.12.2012 17:43, Manuel Reimer wrote:
Klaus Schmidinger wrote:
This was more like a general rant about Linux distributions all wanting
there files in different locations.
This is common on most Unix systems. There are common paths where specific
types of files should be placed to. If you
I'm just glad Linux distribution managers don't build cars - otherwise we would
most
likely be long dead before we find the brake pedal... ;-)
As a distribution manger I have to disagree ;)
All I'm doing now, is to wait til you find a solution which won't be changed within the next
five days
Am 27.12.2012 19:11, schrieb Helmut Auer:
I'm just glad Linux distribution managers don't build cars -
otherwise we would most
likely be long dead before we find the brake pedal... ;-)
As a distribution manger I have to disagree ;)
All I'm doing now, is to wait til you find a solution which
... there are way too much changes at the moment :)
FullAck, but the number of changes are not the issue, it's more the
sustainability and the time frame within the changes. Looking to the last 5
versions, each of them do look allmost like a complete new version. There is
allmost no time for
Am 27.12.2012 19:11, schrieb Helmut Auer:
I'm just glad Linux distribution managers don't build cars - otherwise we would
most
likely be long dead before we find the brake pedal... ;-)
As a distribution manger I have to disagree ;)
All I'm doing now, is to wait til you find a solution which
On 27.12.2012 13:21, VDR User wrote:
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 10:20 AM, fnu v...@auktion.hostingkunde.de wrote:
... there are way too much changes at the moment :)
FullAck, but the number of changes are not the issue, it's more the
sustainability and the time frame within the changes.
Am 27.12.2012 22:21, schrieb VDR User:
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 10:20 AM, fnu v...@auktion.hostingkunde.de wrote:
But don't forget, you don't make a solution liek VDR a success or BBS like
vdr-portal only with a few make; make install users. Over 95% of VDR users
are using a distribution.
I
Keep in mind, all these changes are occurring in the _developer_ version
of VDR, not stable.
Oh damn, I did not even realize this ... ^^
Nobody really want to use VDR 1.6.0 anymore these days, in Europe we would
not be able to watch HDTV. Facing this fact VDR 1.7.3+ is more than just a
On 27.12.2012 23:40, fnu wrote:
...
But the way of the last changes, in best manner of Louis XIV, ignoring
all other needs around can't be the right way.
All I did was to accept a patch from Christopher Reimer that removed
some redundancy in the Makefiles and would better isolate the plugins
If I don't accept patches, I'm blamed for slowing down development.
If I do accept a patch that causes a little work to adapt to (but
looks promising in the long run), I'm being offended by being compared
to Louis XIV. I guess you just can't win 'em all...
You're absolutely right here.
The
On 27 Dec 2012, at 23:41, fnu v...@auktion.hostingkunde.de wrote:
Linux wouldn't have been that succesfull, if Linus Torvalds would not had an
ear to the needs of others, even business needs ...
A Christmas message from Linus – “IF YOU BREAK USERSPACE I HATE YOU AND YOU
ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON”
Dominic,
good one!
I know, a coin has always two sides, but hack, look where Linux nowadays is
. ^^
Cheers
Frank
Im Auftrag von Dominic Evans
Gesendet: Freitag, 28. Dezember 2012 00:47
An: VDR Mailing List
Betreff: Re: [vdr] [DISCUSSION REQUEST] reintroduce a common make
Matthias Schniedermeyer:
Pointing out that the last stable release of VDR having an old
timestamp has nothing to do with people _choosing_ to use the
developer version, which is warned and well-known to possibly contain
changes that will cause problems for those expecting stable
behavior. The
On 27.12.2012 16:55, VDR User wrote:
Matthias Schniedermeyer:
Pointing out that the last stable release of VDR having an old
timestamp has nothing to do with people _choosing_ to use the
developer version, which is warned and well-known to possibly contain
changes that will cause problems for
I think fnu is wrong in his assumption that over 95% of VDR users
I'm not wrong, the users compiling VDR from scratch are far in minority.
Again I'm not just talking about ready to run ISO images.
There are plenty of silent users working the packages out of Linux' distros
repositories, Debian,
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 5:29 PM, fnu v...@auktion.hostingkunde.de wrote:
I'm not wrong, the users compiling VDR from scratch are far in minority.
Again I'm not just talking about ready to run ISO images.
You make this claim but the opposite is observed on mailing lists,
forums, and irc. Since
On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 7:38 PM, fnu v...@auktion.hostingkunde.de wrote:
users when there's plenty of evidence that says otherwise.
You did not provide any ... you also just pray your truth ...
This mailing list, the freebsd multimedia mailing list, forums such as
vdr-portal, dvbn, and
2012/12/25 Klaus Schmidinger klaus.schmidin...@tvdr.de:
3.) the file should be included into plugin Makefiles after having set
PLUGIN and VERSION to be able to have some plugin-/version-dependent
configuration.
Agreed.
No. Not agreed.
Just use DEFINES+= in Make.config, and if that
Hi,
Am 26.12.2012 09:53, schrieb Christopher Reimer:
2012/12/25 Klaus Schmidinger klaus.schmidin...@tvdr.de:
3.) the file should be included into plugin Makefiles after having set
PLUGIN and VERSION to be able to have some plugin-/version-dependent
configuration.
Agreed.
No. Not agreed.
Reinhard Nissl wrote:
I understand that this seems to be a quite simple solution, because in the end,
almost any other configuration option will be converted to either compiler or
linker settings. But it's quite lowlevel and one has to dig through the Makefile
in depth to extract the necessary
I've been doing things with Make.config too, and would like it to be
available again. My plugins usually followed this pattern:
-include $(VDRDIR)/Make.global
-include $(VDRDIR)/Make.config
-include Make.config
so you always had the chance to have optional control without patching
makefiles.
I prefer to keep files for a given program together in that programs
tree. Not scatter all over the computer like ms. The only thing for vdr
I move is the recordings because of the space required. All
settings/config files for vdr belong in the vdr directory tree.
On 12/25/2012 1:07 PM, Klaus
Hi,
as mentioned in the VDR-1.7.34 announcement, Make.config is now
gone for plugins.
Make.config gave me the opportunity to control features or
behavior of plugins and VDR at a central location without having
the need to adjust each plugin's Makefile. For example, while
developing
On 25.12.2012 20:47, Reinhard Nissl wrote:
Hi,
as mentioned in the VDR-1.7.34 announcement, Make.config is now gone for
plugins.
Make.config gave me the opportunity to control features or behavior of plugins
and VDR at a central location without having the need to adjust each plugin's
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