subject:"\[Vo\]\:Open Source Papp Update"

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-11-10 Thread Axil Axil

This is a suggestion and a request for feedback regarding testing and
development of the Papp engine.

It seems to me that a potential cost effective way to get the Papp piston
instrumented to record how it reacts to experimental detonations of various
gas mixtures is to use a Single-Axis, High-g, iMEMS Accelerometer that can
be mounted on the piston stem.

http://www.analog.com/en/mems-sensors/mems-inertial-sensors/adxl193/products/product.html#product-samples-nav

This type of accelerometer can sustain a maximum acceleration of up to
4000G. They are also cheap with a cost of under $10.

It will not break the bank to upgrade the performance of the accelerometer
through chip replacement if the shock performance is too low.

The output of the accelerometer chip can be fed into an oscilloscope to
visualize the output data.

This type of detector may be more sensitive than a gas pressure change
detector for characterizing the force imparted onto the piston by the blast
wave of the spark.

Also, it may be possible to setup a circuit that might measure the speed of
the shockwave traveling through the gas by determining the Delta- time
difference from the first application of the current producing the spark
discharge to the associated induced piston reaction movement as measured
through the output of the accelerometer.

It also may be possible to calculate the force that the piston produces
from the output profile of the accelerometer.

Reaction and suggestions to this idea are now solicited.

Cheers: Axil

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

Some updates on Papp development.. Which most of you know is a noble gas
that is charged (by RF/spark) and drives a piston with an unexplained (?)
force. Harvesting the force and residual energy to produce overunity power
remains to be seen.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26 yr
old whiz named Russ.
He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on Bob's
test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas
mixtures.

http://rwgresearch.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/rwg42985?feature=g-user-u
http://www.open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=659
Bob is chiming in with feedback, which is great to see. The forum is at 12
pages and is filled with interesting tidbits.

Here is a (self-taught?) Dannel Roberts and his visit to Bob's shop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=_zWJNyoFgJM
Starting at 22:40 is Robert's theory of how the Papp engine creates a
bang...

Chuck (a LENR replicator) received his Popper Kit from John. It contains
15 pages of design/build notes and has a signal generator to drive 2
included spark coils.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lFt_q69dxkfeature=plcp

Bob Rohner has also produced a few new movies, one warning of the
potential dangers of building a popper.. another showing the system running
without a coil, dispelling the thought that the coil could be the source of
the force, showing that compressed air is not used.
http://www.rohnermachine.com/pagedocuments.html
https://www.youtube.com/user/bjrohner?feature=g-user-u

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-11-01 Thread ChemE Stewart

Axil,

A Muon event will exhibit a Green Glow:

http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/phys200/lectures/icecube/icecube.html

Would be a good explanation in case Russ is Popping Matter in that
device, which I think he might be...

Stewart
Darkmattersalot.com

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 3:41 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

Russ Gries has released a new research video titled #14, to pin down what
the green glow is.

This glow develops after the spark discharge occurs. Russ wants to find
out how the glow forms and how it relates to pre-ionization of the second
follow on spark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U0SwbtaZ...detailpagehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U0SwbtaZ00feature=player_detailpage

On the net, I looked into some new possible causes for the green glow and
have found three new possible sources as follows:

One, fast electrons moving in a high vacuum will glow green near the
cathode.

Two, glass will phosphoresce when impacted by fast electrons.

Three, helium atoms will phosphoresce when impacted by electrons.

From viewing the video in my opinion, electron impact on Helium atoms
seems to be the most likely cause of the mysterious green glow.

Next, by using the pressure developed in the popper during spark
discharge, Russ was surprised that he was not able to break his grandma’s
Christmas glass that he was using to view how the green glow developes.

Because of this, veiwing video #14 leads me to the following observation;
the forces produced by the popper are electromagnetic in nature and a metal
surface is required inside the popper to produce force.

Some gas pressure develops in the glass cylinder but that pressure is not
forceful enough to contribute to the compression reaction observed when a
piston is installed in the popper.

In the near future from the view point of experimentation, one important
observation that should so be made is to measure this pressure increase of
the gas to see if it has any role in the movement of the piston.
--

In regards to the next observation, this popper demo shows that during the
ionization glow stage, all the wires connecting the popper to the
capacitors shake until the ionization phase is over.

The wires must be under some stress or force from the ionization process.
-

Next, when micro-sized metal fragments are occasionally generated by
sputtering fragmentation of the electrodes, the green ionization glow is
minimized. These metal fragment(s) must localize and concentrate the
electron charge contained within the plasma.

Can this be Anderson localization of the electron charge around the
fragment? In a solid metal, electron charge accumulates around crystal
imperfections in the metal lattice. Maybe the some sort of thing can occur
in gas plasma.
---

In the near future from the view point of suggested experimentation, one
important observation that should be made is to suspend different types of
material on strings from the top of the glass cylinder and watch for
movement of the material that may be imparted by the plasma onto the
material.

The material that the piston head is made out of might impact the upward
force produced by the piston due to material’s electromagnetic
characteristics.

Also, it would be interesting to see experimentally if the material is
heated by the localization of ionization charge onto the material.

Some material that should be tested is aluminum, copper, nickel(metal from
a coin), steel, stainless steel, iron, carbon, wax, plastic.
---
It looks like Russ has wires connected to the feedback current removal
terminals on the sides of the popper, but I can’t tell is the feedback
current is being removed from the popper and dissipated.

If the feedback current is not being removed from the popper,
experimentally remove the feedback current from the popper; if the feedback
current is removed from the cylinder, does the green glow still occur?

The way electrical current flows through the popper is a complicated
affair. Charge is being fed into the popper and simultaneously being
dissipated from the popper.

The discharge capacitors don’t fully drain because they become blocked
from further current flow by a resisting charge buildup in the popper.

Only after this charge buildup in the gas is sufficiently dissipated does
the second lower intensity pop occur.

The delayed second capacitor discharge occurs only when the remaining
blocked latent residual 100 volt charge is equal to or greater than the
green ionization charge in the popper. The ion intensity of the green glow
must

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-31 Thread ti ny

Popper at:http://noble.scienceontheweb.netTiny

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-28 Thread Axil Axil

Russ Gries has released a new research video titled #14, to pin down what
the green glow is.

This glow develops after the spark discharge occurs. Russ wants to find out
how the glow forms and how it relates to pre-ionization of the second
follow on spark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U0SwbtaZ...detailpagehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U0SwbtaZ00feature=player_detailpage

On the net, I looked into some new possible causes for the green glow and
have found three new possible sources as follows:

One, fast electrons moving in a high vacuum will glow green near the
cathode.

Two, glass will phosphoresce when impacted by fast electrons.

Three, helium atoms will phosphoresce when impacted by electrons.

From viewing the video in my opinion, electron impact on Helium atoms seems
to be the most likely cause of the mysterious green glow.

Next, by using the pressure developed in the popper during spark discharge,
Russ was surprised that he was not able to break his grandma’s Christmas
glass that he was using to view how the green glow developes.

Some gas pressure develops in the glass cylinder but that pressure is not
forceful enough to contribute to the compression reaction observed when a
piston is installed in the popper.

In regards to the next observation, this popper demo shows that during the
ionization glow stage, all the wires connecting the popper to the
capacitors shake until the ionization phase is over.

The wires must be under some stress or force from the ionization process.
-

The material that the piston head is made out of might impact the upward
force produced by the piston due to material’s electromagnetic
characteristics.

Also, it would be interesting to see experimentally if the material is
heated by the localization of ionization charge onto the material.

The way electrical current flows through the popper is a complicated
affair. Charge is being fed into the popper and simultaneously being
dissipated from the popper.

The discharge capacitors don’t fully drain because they become blocked from
further current flow by a resisting charge buildup in the popper.

Only after this charge buildup in the gas is sufficiently dissipated does
the second lower intensity pop occur.

Cheers:axil

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-20 Thread Axil Axil

Why are there five gases included in the Papp engine gas mix?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Paschen_Curves.PNG

In 1927 Penning (Figure above) measured the breakdown voltage of a neon
discharge as a function of pressure and distance between the electrodes.
The result is known as the Paschen Curve, after Paschen who had discovered
that the breakdown voltage is a function of the product of gas pressure and
electrode distance.

Penning found that his results were only consistent if he used extremely
pure neon. Minute traces of other gases, such as argon, lowered the
breakdown voltage considerably (Fig. below).

http://www.dos4ever.com/Z550M/penning3.jpg

Penning knew about the work of Dorgelo on metastable states. Metastable
states in Neon had been discovered by Meissner in 1925. These are energy
states well above ground state, from which all transitions to lower states
are forbidden.

Atoms in these metastable states generally return to ground state by either
going through a higher energy state or by a collision. As a result
metastable states can have lifetimes in the order of a millisecond.

Penning proved that what was happening in his gas mixtures was that before
the electrons have sufficient energy to ionize the neon, they can excite
neon atoms, and these excited atoms can pass into metastable states.

Because of their relatively long lifetime, there is a high probability of
collision with one of the impurity atoms. Argon has an ionization potential
below the energy of metastable neon, so argon atoms will ionize leading to
the initiation of the discharge. Such a gas mixture became known as a
Penning Gas. It can be used to lower the breakdown voltage of a discharge
tube, or to make the breakdown less dependent on the inter-electrode
distance.
In summation, by providing a cascading discharge mechanism, the five gas
Papp mix makes the spark electrode discharge distance far less of a factor
in spark formation than a single pure gas or a limited combination of gases
and this mix lowers the voltage required to produce a discharge.

The more gas impurities there are, the higher is the probability of a
collision with one or more of the impurity atoms.

One experiment that DGT might try is to add a small amount of noble gas to
their hydrogen envelope to decrease required spark power and increase spark
plug life. IMHO, Xeon would be best.

Cheers:Axil

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-20 Thread Mint Candy

For noble gas plasma see:
 http://noble.scienceontheweb.net/
 M.

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-20 Thread ChemE Stewart

I agree with the collisions triggering the effect

On Saturday, October 20, 2012, Mint Candy wrote:

 For noble gas plasma see:
 http://noble.scienceontheweb.net/
 M.

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-15 Thread Axil Axil

One interesting observation that has come out of Russ’s experimentation so
far is that a large high energy electron charge persists for a long time
after an initiating high powered instantaneous spark discharge occurs.

Russ has seen charge ionization last for a very long time.

The signs that this large high energy charge accumulation is occurring is
threefold as follows:

First, the green afterglow of a very low level of air contamination
persists for a number of frames as seen in Russ’s camera. This green oxygen
based aurora discharge is caused by ionization of very low pressure air
that Russ’s vacuum pump cannot completely remove.

Second, there exists a strong feedback current that is produced after the
piston jumps. This current flows back through Russ’s spark electrodes and
can jump an air gap to blow out his high current diodes.

Third, Russ says that he is able to fire a spark twice in a row due to the
residual ionization that remains in the cylinder, but he cannot fire the
spark continually since the ionization in the spark gap fades with time.

Russ said, “I just like how it lasts for a while.. That's the interesting
part. The reason I say that is If the gasses stay ionized for a period of
time. This means in an Engine application the high voltage may be able to
keep it going and I won't need a strong discharge to kick start it
 The reason I say this is I hit the button twice and it had a nice
discharge with less cap discharge power...”

In addition for those interested in LENR, since accumulation of high energy
long duration electric charge is an important causative theory in LENR,
this research into the mechanisms of the Papp engine may be applicable in
explaining LENR causation especially with regards to the workings of the
DGT spark initiation mechanism and the plasmatron..

A theory that might explain how this excess high energy electron charge
forms is as follows:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_oscillation

Plasma oscillations, also known as Langmuir waves (after Irving
Langmuir), are rapid oscillations of the electron density in conducting
media such as plasmas or metals.


The oscillations can be described as instability in the dielectric function
of a free electron gas. The frequency that the electron cloud osculates at
only depends weakly on the wavelength. The quasiparticle resulting from the
quantization of these oscillations is the plasmon.

Consider neutral plasma, consisting of a collection of an equal number of
positively charged ions and paired negatively charged electrons. If one
displaces by a tiny amount all of the electrons with respect to the ions,
the Coulomb force pulls back, acting as a restoring force.

Therefore, the Coulomb force sets up oscillating electron waves.

These electron waves will have a “plasma frequency” proportional to the
density of electrons per unit volume.

A dense cloud of electrons will oscillate strongly at a high plasma
frequency.

If the gas is dense and heavy, the free electrons will be some low fraction
of the neutral atoms present.

The intact electron shells of the neutral atoms will shield the electrons
from their associated ions, and the electrons will continue to be shielded
from their ions and be continually repelled off the neutral atoms.

The electron cloud oscillations will also repel the free atoms on the
surface of the piston head and cause it to move under electrostatic
pressure.

High gas pressure and/or the presence of heavy gas molecules (xenon, neon,
etc) will increase the force of the plasma oscillations which will produce
an increased electrostatic repulsive force.

In more detail, an atom with a large number of electrons in orbit around
its nucleus like xenon will strongly shield and repel a high energy free
electron increasing the plasma oscillation. Also, such heavy neutral
atoms/molecules/clusters will have a far longer repulsive Coulomb force
range than will lighter atoms.

Because of the Pauli Exclusion Principle as well as the Heisenberg
uncertainty principle , the individual electrons in the oscillating cloud
will become degenerate (high energy) becoming more and more energetic as
the cloud grows bigger. This will tend to keep the electrons from getting
back together with their associated ions because of a quantum orbital
energy mismatch. This keeps the cloud ionized indefinitely until the
stranded electron charge cloud can find a path to ground as a high energy
feedback current.

Getting this charge cloud out of the cylinder is important in setting up
the next spark discharge cycle by getting the gas back to a neutral charge
state.






On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi Vortex,

 Some updates on Papp development.. Which most of you know is a noble gas
 that is charged (by RF/spark) and drives a piston with an unexplained (?)
 force. Harvesting the force and residual energy to produce overunity power
 remains to be seen.

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-15 Thread ChemE Stewart

Good stuff, couple of comments.

I think Papp used his surrounding coil to help remove the charged particles
to prevent the buildup he is seeing.

Are you sure those are only electrons creating the blue aurora? Many types
of cosmic charged particles should do that.
http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/Faint-Blue-Flashes-Solve-Cosmic-Puzzle-2.jpg/


Russ should be doing everything he can to protect himself from potential
ionizing radiation.  Including taking Melatonin, which is normally produced
in the Pineal gland and can help protect one from the harmful effects.

On Monday, October 15, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

 One interesting observation that has come out of Russ’s experimentation so
 far is that a large high energy electron charge persists for a long time
 after an initiating high powered instantaneous spark discharge occurs.

 Russ has seen charge ionization last for a very long time.

 The signs that this large high energy charge accumulation is occurring is
 threefold as follows:

 First, the green afterglow of a very low level of air contamination
 persists for a number of frames as seen in Russ’s camera. This green oxygen
 based aurora discharge is caused by ionization of very low pressure air
 that Russ’s vacuum pump cannot completely remove.

 Second, there exists a strong feedback current that is produced after the
 piston jumps. This current flows back through Russ’s spark electrodes and
 can jump an air gap to blow out his high current diodes.

 Third, Russ says that he is able to fire a spark twice in a row due to the
 residual ionization that remains in the cylinder, but he cannot fire the
 spark continually since the ionization in the spark gap fades with time.

 Russ said, “I just like how it lasts for a while.. That's the interesting
 part. The reason I say that is If the gasses stay ionized for a period of
 time. This means in an Engine application the high voltage may be able to
 keep it going and I won't need a strong discharge to kick start it
  The reason I say this is I hit the button twice and it had a nice
 discharge with less cap discharge power...”

 In addition for those interested in LENR, since accumulation of high
 energy long duration electric charge is an important causative theory in
 LENR, this research into the mechanisms of the Papp engine may be
 applicable in explaining LENR causation especially with regards to the
 workings of the DGT spark initiation mechanism and the plasmatron..

 A theory that might explain how this excess high energy electron charge
 forms is as follows:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_oscillation

 Plasma oscillations, also known as Langmuir waves (after Irving
 Langmuir), are rapid oscillations of the electron density in conducting
 media such as plasmas or metals.


 The oscillations can be described as instability in the dielectric
 function of a free electron gas. The frequency that the electron cloud
 osculates at only depends weakly on the wavelength. The quasiparticle
 resulting from the quantization of these oscillations is the plasmon.

 Consider neutral plasma, consisting of a collection of an equal number of
 positively charged ions and paired negatively charged electrons. If one
 displaces by a tiny amount all of the electrons with respect to the ions,
 the Coulomb force pulls back, acting as a restoring force.

 Therefore, the Coulomb force sets up oscillating electron waves.

 These electron waves will have a “plasma frequency” proportional to the
 density of electrons per unit volume.

 A dense cloud of electrons will oscillate strongly at a high plasma
 frequency.

 If the gas is dense and heavy, the free electrons will be some low
 fraction of the neutral atoms present.

 The intact electron shells of the neutral atoms will shield the electrons
 from their associated ions, and the electrons will continue to be shielded
 from their ions and be continually repelled off the neutral atoms.

 The electron cloud oscillations will also repel the free atoms on the
 surface of the piston head and cause it to move under electrostatic
 pressure.

 High gas pressure and/or the presence of heavy gas molecules (xenon, neon,
 etc) will increase the force of the plasma oscillations which will produce
 an increased electrostatic repulsive force.

 In more detail, an atom with a large number of electrons in orbit around
 its nucleus like xenon will strongly shield and repel a high energy free
 electron increasing the plasma oscillation. Also, such heavy neutral
 atoms/molecules/clusters will have a far longer repulsive Coulomb force
 range than will lighter atoms.

 Because of the Pauli Exclusion Principle as well as the Heisenberg
 uncertainty principle , the individual electrons in the oscillating cloud
 will become degenerate (high energy) becoming more and more energetic as
 the cloud grows bigger. This will tend to keep the electrons from getting
 back together with their associated ions because of a quantum orbital
 energy mismatch.

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-15 Thread ChemE Stewart

Melatonin Research
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15485549


It is pretty well understood that dark matter and energy are striking earth
constantly in the form of Neutrinos and probably WIMPS - they are still
looking for them all pelting us during solar storms.  In My research, I
believe have located where the LARGE WIMP particles are hiding, they are
leaving a seismic, magnetic and acoustic ultra low frequency pulse as they
orbit.  I sent a copy of my latest Kepler Orbit WIMP Model to NASA.

Now do you guys want to hear a super strange thing? No?  I am going to tell
you anyway...

My research is also telling me that most crop circles are probably NOT
created by drunken englishmen and are actually produced from this dark
energy striking earth.  The radiation signature on the stalk matches.

In 2011 a crop circle popped up showing the chemical structure
ofMelatonin.
http://www.in5d.com/melatonin-the-pineal-gland-your-3rd-eye-and-crop-circles.html

I think the ULF radiation from the dark energy is probably one of the
causes of cancer in humans.

I have also been analyzing some of the other circles and some are matching
my model of large WIMPS in a decaying orbit into and through the earth.  I
believe the circles are telling us when this is happening...

I am not sh*^*ing you.  I didn't even believe in crop circles (until the
last month or so).  I am having a blog explosion in activity right now
(dark energy)

Stewart
darkmattersalot.com







On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:06 PM, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote:

 Good stuff, couple of comments.

 I think Papp used his surrounding coil to help remove the charged
 particles to prevent the buildup he is seeing.

 Are you sure those are only electrons creating the blue aurora? Many types
 of cosmic charged particles should do that.

 http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/Faint-Blue-Flashes-Solve-Cosmic-Puzzle-2.jpg/


 Russ should be doing everything he can to protect himself from potential
 ionizing radiation.  Including taking Melatonin, which is normally produced
 in the Pineal gland and can help protect one from the harmful effects.


 On Monday, October 15, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

 One interesting observation that has come out of Russ’s experimentation
 so far is that a large high energy electron charge persists for a long time
 after an initiating high powered instantaneous spark discharge occurs.

 Russ has seen charge ionization last for a very long time.

 The signs that this large high energy charge accumulation is occurring is
 threefold as follows:

 First, the green afterglow of a very low level of air contamination
 persists for a number of frames as seen in Russ’s camera. This green oxygen
 based aurora discharge is caused by ionization of very low pressure air
 that Russ’s vacuum pump cannot completely remove.

 Second, there exists a strong feedback current that is produced after the
 piston jumps. This current flows back through Russ’s spark electrodes and
 can jump an air gap to blow out his high current diodes.

 Third, Russ says that he is able to fire a spark twice in a row due to
 the residual ionization that remains in the cylinder, but he cannot fire
 the spark continually since the ionization in the spark gap fades with time.

 Russ said, “I just like how it lasts for a while.. That's the interesting
 part. The reason I say that is If the gasses stay ionized for a period of
 time. This means in an Engine application the high voltage may be able to
 keep it going and I won't need a strong discharge to kick start it
  The reason I say this is I hit the button twice and it had a nice
 discharge with less cap discharge power...”

 In addition for those interested in LENR, since accumulation of high
 energy long duration electric charge is an important causative theory in
 LENR, this research into the mechanisms of the Papp engine may be
 applicable in explaining LENR causation especially with regards to the
 workings of the DGT spark initiation mechanism and the plasmatron..

 A theory that might explain how this excess high energy electron charge
 forms is as follows:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_oscillation

 Plasma oscillations, also known as Langmuir waves (after Irving
 Langmuir), are rapid oscillations of the electron density in conducting
 media such as plasmas or metals.


 The oscillations can be described as instability in the dielectric
 function of a free electron gas. The frequency that the electron cloud
 osculates at only depends weakly on the wavelength. The quasiparticle
 resulting from the quantization of these oscillations is the plasmon.

 Consider neutral plasma, consisting of a collection of an equal number of
 positively charged ions and paired negatively charged electrons. If one
 displaces by a tiny amount all of the electrons with respect to the ions,
 the Coulomb force pulls back, acting as a restoring force.

 Therefore, the Coulomb force sets up oscillating electron waves.

 These electron

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-15 Thread James Bowery

While it certainly makes sense that dark matter melatonin tablets would
carve out crop circles in the shape of their constituent molecules, this
only opens up even more enigmatic questions such as:  Do the dark matter
melatonin pills come in 3mg or 10mg?

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 3:45 PM, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote:

 Melatonin Research
 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15485549


 It is pretty well understood that dark matter and energy are striking
 earth constantly in the form of Neutrinos and probably WIMPS - they are
 still looking for them all pelting us during solar storms.  In My research,
 I believe have located where the LARGE WIMP particles are hiding, they are
 leaving a seismic, magnetic and acoustic ultra low frequency pulse as they
 orbit.  I sent a copy of my latest Kepler Orbit WIMP Model to NASA.

 Now do you guys want to hear a super strange thing? No?  I am going to
 tell you anyway...

 My research is also telling me that most crop circles are probably NOT
 created by drunken englishmen and are actually produced from this dark
 energy striking earth.  The radiation signature on the stalk matches.

 In 2011 a crop circle popped up showing the chemical structure
 ofMelatonin.

 http://www.in5d.com/melatonin-the-pineal-gland-your-3rd-eye-and-crop-circles.html

 I think the ULF radiation from the dark energy is probably one of the
 causes of cancer in humans.

 I have also been analyzing some of the other circles and some are matching
 my model of large WIMPS in a decaying orbit into and through the earth.  I
 believe the circles are telling us when this is happening...

 I am not sh*^*ing you.  I didn't even believe in crop circles (until the
 last month or so).  I am having a blog explosion in activity right now
 (dark energy)

 Stewart
 darkmattersalot.com







 On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:06 PM, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote:

 Good stuff, couple of comments.

 I think Papp used his surrounding coil to help remove the charged
 particles to prevent the buildup he is seeing.

 Are you sure those are only electrons creating the blue aurora? Many
 types of cosmic charged particles should do that.

 http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/Faint-Blue-Flashes-Solve-Cosmic-Puzzle-2.jpg/


 Russ should be doing everything he can to protect himself from potential
 ionizing radiation.  Including taking Melatonin, which is normally produced
 in the Pineal gland and can help protect one from the harmful effects.


 On Monday, October 15, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

 One interesting observation that has come out of Russ’s experimentation
 so far is that a large high energy electron charge persists for a long time
 after an initiating high powered instantaneous spark discharge occurs.

 Russ has seen charge ionization last for a very long time.

 The signs that this large high energy charge accumulation is occurring
 is threefold as follows:

 First, the green afterglow of a very low level of air contamination
 persists for a number of frames as seen in Russ’s camera. This green oxygen
 based aurora discharge is caused by ionization of very low pressure air
 that Russ’s vacuum pump cannot completely remove.

 Second, there exists a strong feedback current that is produced after
 the piston jumps. This current flows back through Russ’s spark electrodes
 and can jump an air gap to blow out his high current diodes.

 Third, Russ says that he is able to fire a spark twice in a row due to
 the residual ionization that remains in the cylinder, but he cannot fire
 the spark continually since the ionization in the spark gap fades with time.

 Russ said, “I just like how it lasts for a while.. That's the
 interesting part. The reason I say that is If the gasses stay ionized for a
 period of time. This means in an Engine application the high voltage may be
 able to keep it going and I won't need a strong discharge to kick start it
  The reason I say this is I hit the button twice and it had a nice
 discharge with less cap discharge power...”

 In addition for those interested in LENR, since accumulation of high
 energy long duration electric charge is an important causative theory in
 LENR, this research into the mechanisms of the Papp engine may be
 applicable in explaining LENR causation especially with regards to the
 workings of the DGT spark initiation mechanism and the plasmatron..

 A theory that might explain how this excess high energy electron charge
 forms is as follows:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_oscillation

 Plasma oscillations, also known as Langmuir waves (after Irving
 Langmuir), are rapid oscillations of the electron density in conducting
 media such as plasmas or metals.


 The oscillations can be described as instability in the dielectric
 function of a free electron gas. The frequency that the electron cloud
 osculates at only depends weakly on the wavelength. The quasiparticle
 resulting from the quantization of these oscillations is the plasmon.

 Consider

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-15 Thread ChemE Stewart

5 Mg dosage works best.  Why would some dumbass draw a Melatonin molecule
in a field?

I guess I could be boiling quarters or popping air with champion spark
plugs in my garage...

Does everybody realize how weird we all sound?

FYI, update on my Hurricane prediction from 9/25:

The Good:

Some of you might remember I predicted on 9/25 a Hurricane (Nadine) to
strike where the 600 earthquake swarm was hitting just NorthEast of San
Juan Puerto Rico.  On Saturday 10/13 @ 11:00 AM, Tropical Storm Rafael(just
shy of hurricane wind speed) hit that EXACT spot.

If my theory is correct I can predict the primary destination of large
low pressure systems approx 6-8 weeks ahead of time...  I need a ULF
signature of both the seismic and low pressure system to be sure.  Anybody
have a drone with a Magnetometer I can rent?  I also need to put one near
an actively growing sinkhole or seismic swarm with ULF signature to verify
a WIMP is racing through.

The Bad:

I predicted it would be Hurricane Nadine, which was the only low pressure
system on the radar at the time.  I was a couple weeks too early.  Which
makes sense now because it took Hurricane Isaac almost two months to make
it to the area of the ULF seismic signals (sinkhole in Bayou Corne, LA)

My theory predicts a massive dark matter WIMP particle, possibly weighing
in the neighborhood of 1x10E15 kg was orbiting in the air between the eye
of the low pressure system and the earthquake storm.  On early Saturday
morning a 2 engine airplane was flying across the path of the particle I
predicted and broke up in the ocean.  This was before the storm arrived.
http://virginislandsdailynews.com/news/air-and-sea-search-underway-1.1388292

If I am right my particle has Petajoules+ of energy available and I will
put that up against anybody's LENR device...

Stewart
http://darkmattersalot.com











On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 7:37 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 While it certainly makes sense that dark matter melatonin tablets would
 carve out crop circles in the shape of their constituent molecules, this
 only opens up even more enigmatic questions such as:  Do the dark matter
 melatonin pills come in 3mg or 10mg?


 On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 3:45 PM, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote:

 Melatonin Research
 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15485549


 It is pretty well understood that dark matter and energy are striking
 earth constantly in the form of Neutrinos and probably WIMPS - they are
 still looking for them all pelting us during solar storms.  In My research,
 I believe have located where the LARGE WIMP particles are hiding, they are
 leaving a seismic, magnetic and acoustic ultra low frequency pulse as they
 orbit.  I sent a copy of my latest Kepler Orbit WIMP Model to NASA.

 Now do you guys want to hear a super strange thing? No?  I am going to
 tell you anyway...

 My research is also telling me that most crop circles are probably NOT
 created by drunken englishmen and are actually produced from this dark
 energy striking earth.  The radiation signature on the stalk matches.

 In 2011 a crop circle popped up showing the chemical structure
 ofMelatonin.

 http://www.in5d.com/melatonin-the-pineal-gland-your-3rd-eye-and-crop-circles.html

 I think the ULF radiation from the dark energy is probably one of the
 causes of cancer in humans.

 I have also been analyzing some of the other circles and some are
 matching my model of large WIMPS in a decaying orbit into and through the
 earth.  I believe the circles are telling us when this is happening...

 I am not sh*^*ing you.  I didn't even believe in crop circles (until the
 last month or so).  I am having a blog explosion in activity right now
 (dark energy)

 Stewart
 darkmattersalot.com







 On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:06 PM, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.comwrote:

 Good stuff, couple of comments.

 I think Papp used his surrounding coil to help remove the charged
 particles to prevent the buildup he is seeing.

 Are you sure those are only electrons creating the blue aurora? Many
 types of cosmic charged particles should do that.

 http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/Faint-Blue-Flashes-Solve-Cosmic-Puzzle-2.jpg/


 Russ should be doing everything he can to protect himself from potential
 ionizing radiation.  Including taking Melatonin, which is normally produced
 in the Pineal gland and can help protect one from the harmful effects.


 On Monday, October 15, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

 One interesting observation that has come out of Russ’s experimentation
 so far is that a large high energy electron charge persists for a long time
 after an initiating high powered instantaneous spark discharge occurs.

 Russ has seen charge ionization last for a very long time.

 The signs that this large high energy charge accumulation is occurring
 is threefold as follows:

 First, the green afterglow of a very low level of air contamination
 persists for a number of frames as seen in Russ’s camera. This

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-12 Thread Axil Axil

*Russ’s popper experimentation has shown some useful engineering details
regarding systems that use arching in a hydrogen atmosphere.*

* *

*The popper will become contaminated with tungsten powder after a
relatively small number of arc discharges are done by Thoriated Tungsten
Electrodes at high pulsed voltage.*

* *

*One theory about the cause of this tungsten erosion is that very high
temperatures produced on the surface of the tungsten electrode vaporize the
metal.*

* *

*
http://www.google.com/url?sa=trct=jq=esrc=sfrm=1source=webcd=2cad=rjasqi=2ved=0CDwQFjABurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tandfonline.com%2Fdoi%2Fabs%2F10.1080%2F09507119209548203ei=NWZ4UP_wI4_h0wHv7ICYBAusg=AFQjCNFpzc-m6JddiXhQuTpwzh7UcZ7tPAsig2=XNBN7NejJpiSQjFHs65oIg
*

* *

* *

*But Russ’s experiments speak against this theory because no erosion of the
tungsten electrodes occurs when the arc happens in a helium envelope.*

* *
*There must be some other mechanism going on where hydrogen blows off or
chemically alters the tungsten during electrode arcing.*
**
*This testing has value for other like systems.*

* *

*In energy systems like those being developed by DGT, this electrode
contamination could be an issue in regards to the life of spark plugs
running in hydrogen over a long period of time.*

* *
*First the spark plugs will have a greatly reduced service life, and
second, the electrode metal will contaminate the catalytic processes inside
the reactor as more and more erosion occurs.  *
**
**
*Cheers:Axil*

* *

* *

* *


On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi Vortex,

 Some updates on Papp development.. Which most of you know is a noble gas
 that is charged (by RF/spark) and drives a piston with an unexplained (?)
 force. Harvesting the force and residual energy to produce overunity power
 remains to be seen.

 http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor



 An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26 yr
 old whiz named Russ.
 He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on Bob's
 test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
 I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas
 mixtures.

 http://rwgresearch.com/
 https://www.youtube.com/user/rwg42985?feature=g-user-u
 http://www.open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=659
 Bob is chiming in with feedback, which is great to see. The forum is at 12
 pages and is filled with interesting tidbits.


 Here is a (self-taught?) Dannel Roberts and his visit to Bob's shop.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=_zWJNyoFgJM
 Starting at 22:40 is Robert's theory of how the Papp engine creates a
 bang...


 Chuck (a LENR replicator) received his Popper Kit from John. It contains
 15 pages of design/build notes and has a signal generator to drive 2
 included spark coils.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lFt_q69dxkfeature=plcp

 Bob Rohner has also produced a few new movies, one warning of the
 potential dangers of building a popper.. another showing the system running
 without a coil, dispelling the thought that the coil could be the source of
 the force, showing that compressed air is not used.
 http://www.rohnermachine.com/pagedocuments.html
 https://www.youtube.com/user/bjrohner?feature=g-user-u

 All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
 lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

 - Brad

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-12 Thread ChemE Stewart

I agree.  I think it will alter any material on earth it comes into contact
with over a period of time.  Will need disposable parts...

On Friday, October 12, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

 *Russ’s popper experimentation has shown some useful engineering details
 regarding systems that use arching in a hydrogen atmosphere.*

 * *

 *The popper will become contaminated with tungsten powder after a
 relatively small number of arc discharges are done by Thoriated Tungsten
 Electrodes at high pulsed voltage.*

 * *

 *One theory about the cause of this tungsten erosion is that very high
 temperatures produced on the surface of the tungsten electrode vaporize the
 metal.*

 * *

 *
 http://www.google.com/url?sa=trct=jq=esrc=sfrm=1source=webcd=2cad=rjasqi=2ved=0CDwQFjABurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tandfonline.com%2Fdoi%2Fabs%2F10.1080%2F09507119209548203ei=NWZ4UP_wI4_h0wHv7ICYBAusg=AFQjCNFpzc-m6JddiXhQuTpwzh7UcZ7tPAsig2=XNBN7NejJpiSQjFHs65oIg
 *

 * *

 * *

 *But Russ’s experiments speak against this theory because no erosion of
 the tungsten electrodes occurs when the arc happens in a helium envelope.*

 * *
 *There must be some other mechanism going on where hydrogen blows off or
 chemically alters the tungsten during electrode arcing.*
 **
 *This testing has value for other like systems.*

 * *

 *In energy systems like those being developed by DGT, this electrode
 contamination could be an issue in regards to the life of spark plugs
 running in hydrogen over a long period of time.*

 * *
 *First the spark plugs will have a greatly reduced service life, and
 second, the electrode metal will contaminate the catalytic processes inside
 the reactor as more and more erosion occurs.  *
 **
 **
 *Cheers:Axil*

 * *

 * *

 * *


 On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder 
 ecatbuil...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'ecatbuil...@gmail.com');
  wrote:

 Hi Vortex,

 Some updates on Papp development.. Which most of you know is a noble gas
 that is charged (by RF/spark) and drives a piston with an unexplained (?)
 force. Harvesting the force and residual energy to produce overunity power
 remains to be seen.

 http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor



 An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26
 yr old whiz named Russ.
 He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on
 Bob's test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
 I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas
 mixtures.

 http://rwgresearch.com/
 https://www.youtube.com/user/rwg42985?feature=g-user-u
 http://www.open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=659
 Bob is chiming in with feedback, which is great to see. The forum is at
 12 pages and is filled with interesting tidbits.


 Here is a (self-taught?) Dannel Roberts and his visit to Bob's shop.
 Rohner-Roberts Video (The Noble Gas 
 Engine)http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=_zWJNyoFgJM
 Starting at 22:40 is Robert's theory of how the Papp engine creates a
 bang...


 Chuck (a LENR replicator) received his Popper Kit from John. It contains
 15 pages of design/build notes and has a signal generator to drive 2
 included spark coils. Popper control 
 demohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lFt_q69dxkfeature=plcp


 Bob Rohner has also produced a few new movies, one warning of the
 potential dangers of building a popper.. another showing the system running
 without a coil, dispelling the thought that the coil could be the source of
 the force, showing that compressed air is not used.
 http://www.rohnermachine.com/pagedocuments.html
 https://www.youtube.com/user/bjrohner?feature=g-user-u

 All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
 lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

 - Brad

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-07 Thread Ron Kita

Greetings Vortex-L,

Shock Wave Disc Engine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_disk_engine

Respectfully,
Ron Kita, Chiralex

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=FIrjnrTYofc

Russ tries helium in video 12.

Cheers:Axil

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

If shockwave production is central to the Papp reaction, it may be
possible to build a Papp generator without the need for a piston.

Here is my reasoning:

When the spark fires, a shock wave will form, expand, and travel down the
length of the tube. This wave is comprised of a shockwave front of both
electrons and ions. The electrons will move down the tube far faster than
the positive protons because they are 2000 times lighter.

This shockwave will produce a large electric current along the axis of
the tube parallel to its length.

This flow of electrons will produce a huge magnetic field that will be
emanated accorting to the right hand rule with the thumb pointing in the
direction of shockwave travel.

The magnetic field will circle the circumference of the tube and be
oriented parallel to it.

A network of a large number of thin copper wires can be arrayed along the
length of the tube on its outside surface and parallel to its length
direction, which also happens to be the direction of travel of the
shockwave.

The end of each element of this multi-wire mesh can then be connected at
the ends of each of these equally long elements to a common connector at
two opposing junctions just beyond each end of the tube.

This mesh of parallel wires can now convert the rapidly changing magnetic
flux as it expands and contracts to electric power that can be rectified
and stored in capacitors.

This power generated my the mesh can be added to the feedback power
produced by plasma collapse of the shockwave that is usually found in Papp
engines.

If the mesh of wires is thick enough, all the rapidly changing magnetic
flux lines can be converted to electricity at maximum efficiency without
the need for any mechanical moving parts.

Additionally from the perspective of experimentation, if magnetic field
lines can be detected when the Papp engine is fired, the production of a
shockwave will be both verified and quantified.

Cheers:Axil

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26
yr old whiz named Russ.
He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on
Bob's test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas
mixtures.

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-06 Thread Axil Axil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=FIrjnrTYofc

Russ tries helium in video 12.

Cheers:Axil

On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

If shockwave production is central to the Papp reaction, it may be
possible to build a Papp generator without the need for a piston.

Here is my reasoning:

This shockwave will produce a large electric current along the axis of the
tube parallel to its length.

This flow of electrons will produce a huge magnetic field that will be
emanated accorting to the right hand rule with the thumb pointing in the
direction of shockwave travel.

The magnetic field will circle the circumference of the tube and be
oriented parallel to it.

This mesh of parallel wires can now convert the rapidly changing magnetic
flux as it expands and contracts to electric power that can be rectified
and stored in capacitors.

This power generated my the mesh can be added to the feedback power
produced by plasma collapse of the shockwave that is usually found in Papp
engines.

If the mesh of wires is thick enough, all the rapidly changing magnetic
flux lines can be converted to electricity at maximum efficiency without
the need for any mechanical moving parts.

Additionally from the perspective of experimentation, if magnetic field
lines can be detected when the Papp engine is fired, the production of a
shockwave will be both verified and quantified.

Cheers:Axil

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26
yr old whiz named Russ.
He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on
Bob's test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas
mixtures.

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-02 Thread Axil Axil

If shockwave production is central to the Papp reaction, it may be
possible to build a Papp generator without the need for a piston.

Here is my reasoning:

This shockwave will produce a large electric current along the axis of the
tube parallel to its length.

This flow of electrons will produce a huge magnetic field that will be
emanated accorting to the right hand rule with the thumb pointing in the
direction of shockwave travel.

The magnetic field will circle the circumference of the tube and be
oriented parallel to it.

This mesh of parallel wires can now convert the rapidly changing magnetic
flux as it expands and contracts to electric power that can be rectified
and stored in capacitors.

This power generated my the mesh can be added to the feedback power
produced by plasma collapse of the shockwave that is usually found in Papp
engines.

If the mesh of wires is thick enough, all the rapidly changing magnetic
flux lines can be converted to electricity at maximum efficiency without
the need for any mechanical moving parts.

Additionally from the perspective of experimentation, if magnetic field
lines can be detected when the Papp engine is fired, the production of a
shockwave will be both verified and quantified.

Cheers:Axil

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-01 Thread Axil Axil

Is video proports to show a device where the transmutation of noble gas is
going on based on the Papp reaction..

For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwQIioZig2Q

Cheers:Axil

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

RE: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-10-01 Thread Jones Beene

Absurd conclusion in this video!

 

The is absolutely zero evidence for conversion of neon gas to argon in this,
or in any Papp discharge. LOL. 

 

What idiots. With 2 minutes of googling - they could find that neon also has
two strong violet lines.

 

http://www2.ifa.hawaii.edu/newsletters/images/37spectra.jpg

 

IOW - the violet lines which can be seen for a fraction of a second in a
neon discharge are NOT argon lines from the transmutation of neon to argon,
but are normal neon lines.

 

 

From: Axil Axil 

 

Is video proports to show a device where the transmutation of noble gas is
going on based on the Papp reaction.. 


For example:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwQIioZig2Q

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread Axil Axil

This feedback current is an integral part of the Papp reaction. All
successful Papp implementations  demonstrate current feedback.

Conversely, IMO, this occurrence of the feedback demonstrates a successful
Papp reaction.

Russ has not installed the coils and the RF yet, or has he optimized the
spark. I expect a good deal of progress going forward.


On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:55 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote:

 **
 I thought so.  But why are you conflating the Russ feedback with Papp's
 original engine?  Did Papp get a feedback similar to Russ' and did he feed
 that to his second cylinder?  Did Papp use hydrogen? which Russ seems to
 have discovered is the gas that causes feedback.  Russ never got his noble
 gas mixture to create feedback that caused his diodes to blow.

 I think it would help if people are more careful to not conflate various
 anecdotal evidence.  I'm all for the success and/or reality of the Papp
 engine, but it is not helpful to our credibility if we start playing loose
 with our evidence, especially evidence that is anecdotal.

 As for the patent, we don't really know how it was evaluated.  Maybe, the
 examiner got caught up with the noble gas novelty also that he got
 distracted.  You can't really say the patent process is foolproof.  Just
 peruse the hundreds of overunity inventions that were granted patents.


 Jojo



 - Original Message -
 *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2012 1:34 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

 I said ...Papp engine self-powered  I was talking about the Papp
 engine. This info is in his patent. This was the reson why the Papp engine
 exploded in the finemen incident when the power to the controls was removed.

 Papp would not have been issued a patent unless the engine worked.



 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote:

 **
 How did you come to this conclusion?  Have I missed a video that Russ
 powered a second opposing cylinder from the feedback of the first?

 Are you referring to some other papper engine built by somebody else?

 I think you may be guilty again of conflating anecdotal evidence from
 various videos to come to the wrong conclusion.  But, I would be very
 much happier if I am wrong.  That would only mean we can free ourselves
 from raghead slavery.  So, please correct me.

 Jojo




  - Original Message -
 *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
  *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2012 12:58 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

  One point about the energy balance that you have not considered is the
 amount of energy contained in the feedback current that Russ is seeing when
 the plasma is relaxing. This current jumped an air gap, blew out all his
 high powered diodes along with his neon light.

 This feedback current was strong enough to power the alternate cylinder
 in a two cylinder configuration making the Papp engine self-powered after
 the initial startup excitation.
  Cheers:Axil


 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote:

 **
 Axil,

 Russ delivers 1000 joules of energy per spark with his high voltage and
 huge capacitor banks.  If he does this at a continuous rate of 1 spark per
 second, that would be 1000 Watts of energy delivered/inputted into his
 papper cylinder.

 It seems to me that the piston jump of 6 inches with a light weight
 piston DOES NOT equate to 1000 Watts of power.  This does not look like it
 is overunity.  This appears to be just ordinary thermodynamic expansion of
 the gas due to inputted energy.  Nothing appears to be special here.

 Now, I am willing to be wrong.  I do not have the time nor the
 inclination to watch all his videos from 1 to 11.  I watch 9 and 11
 partially.  In his other videos, did he mention how much the weight of his
 piston is?  If he did, maybe you can calculate the amount of work performed
 on the piston with a 6 inch travel upwards.  This would probably be around
 10%-20% efficiency, which would totally be consistent with a thermodynamic
 expansion cycle of a compressed gas.  Seems to me this is nothing more than
 an internal combustion engine, with the spark providing the raw energy for
 gas expansion.

 Funny, but Papp may have found a clever and magician trick way of
 running an internal combustion engine making it appear to be overunity.
 With the process appearing to work with normal air, and now hydrogen, the
 noble gas mixture may just have been a convenient and effective
 magician's sleight of hand technique to divert attention from his engine
 just being an ordinary Internal Combustion Engine.  Everybody was focusing
 on the novelty of using a certain magic formula of noble gases that
 nobody bothered to check the energy balance.  I believe this is what
 happened.


 Jojo



  - Original Message -
 *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
  *Sent

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread Guenter Wildgruber

The Papp engine is a pseudo-physical vehicle to test the mental sanity of 
believers from an/my outside point-of--view.

The capacity to believe -in the US- is an order of magnitude higher than over 
here -Central/Northern Europe.
We get our pile of dirt thrown at us because of this incapacity. 

Well. Be it so.

I 'believe' in LENR on a commercializable scale in some medium-term future, but 
not in ZPE.


So what church are You attending to, to believe that (Papp)?
The California gold-fever of 1849? Mormons? Ku-Klux-Clan? Scientology? The 
Anything-goes-society?


I feel offended by all those quacks, who equally 'believe' in Papp as well as 
LENR, which are -to me- completely different domains.

Which is somehow understandable, considering twisted minds, because a basic 
incapacity to recognize shades, makes all cattle black/white.
LENR=PAPP=ZPE.

This is not so!

Guenter



 Von: Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com
An: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Gesendet: 7:55 Sonntag, 30.September 2012
Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update
 
I think it would help if people are more careful to 
not conflate various anecdotal evidence.  I'm all for the success and/or 
reality of the Papp engine, but it is not helpful to our credibility if we 
start 
playing loose with our evidence, especially evidence that is 
anecdotal.
 Jojo

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread James Bowery

Guenter, is it your opinion that Russ is one of those credulous
Americans who believes in the Papp engine?

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:00 AM, Guenter Wildgruber
gwildgru...@ymail.com wrote:
 The Papp engine is a pseudo-physical vehicle to test the mental sanity of
 believers from an/my outside point-of--view.

 The capacity to believe -in the US- is an order of magnitude higher than
 over here -Central/Northern Europe.
 We get our pile of dirt thrown at us because of this incapacity.
 Well. Be it so.
 I 'believe' in LENR on a commercializable scale in some medium-term future,
 but not in ZPE.

 So what church are You attending to, to believe that (Papp)?
 The California gold-fever of 1849? Mormons? Ku-Klux-Clan? Scientology? The
 Anything-goes-society?

 I feel offended by all those quacks, who equally 'believe' in Papp as well
 as LENR, which are -to me- completely different domains.

 Which is somehow understandable, considering twisted minds, because a basic
 incapacity to recognize shades, makes all cattle black/white.
 LENR=PAPP=ZPE.

 This is not so!

 Guenter
 
 Von: Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com
 An: vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Gesendet: 7:55 Sonntag, 30.September 2012
 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

 I think it would help if people are more careful to not conflate various
 anecdotal evidence.  I'm all for the success and/or reality of the Papp
 engine, but it is not helpful to our credibility if we start playing loose
 with our evidence, especially evidence that is anecdotal.

 Jojo

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread James Bowery

In other words, Krytron technology.

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 6:58 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 To optimize gas performance, I recommend a spark rise time under 50
 nanoseconds with a very short duration to produce the most powerful
 explosive and forceful expansion of the gas.

RE: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread MarkI-ZeroPoint

Unless both Papp and the Rohners are engaging in disinformation... both are
telling us to use what doesn't work, and even specifically saying that H
doesn't work when in fact is the only gas that does work.
-mi

_
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 3:02 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

It's not exactly a proof of principle - and in fact it is closer to a
disproof of principle.

He gets little to no effect from the Noble gas mixture, but gets an
interesting effect from hydrogen. It is probably a hydrino effect. The
violet color is indicative of UV emission, which is the signature of the
Mill's f/H reaction.

Papp says over and over that he does not use hydrogen in his mix, and the
Rohner's agree. Therefore since hydrogen gives a rather strong effect, and
the Nobel gas mix gives almost none, by comparison, this amounts to a rather
compelling disproof of principle for Papp and/or a putative NGE.

Jones

From: Axil Axil 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBWiWftGknIlist=UULuDKTNDFfat7iO7KGE7fQAin
dex=1feature=plcp

attachment: winmail.dat

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread James Bowery

Observing all the trouble Papp went to during the fueling of his engine, it
is rather difficult to believe that the noble gas was a mere stage prop.

See:

http://inteligentry.com/shared/PappW/4-Fueling.mp4


On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote:

 **
 Funny, but Papp may have found a clever and magician trick way of
 running an internal combustion engine making it appear to be overunity.
 With the process appearing to work with normal air, and now hydrogen, the
 noble gas mixture may just have been a convenient and effective
 magician's sleight of hand technique to divert attention from his engine
 just being an ordinary Internal Combustion Engine.  Everybody was focusing
 on the novelty of using a certain magic formula of noble gases that
 nobody bothered to check the energy balance.  I believe this is what
 happened.

RE: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread Jones Beene

I think James could be correct that the choice of noble gases is NOT a stage
prop.

However, and once again - keep in mind that Papp used radium as his prime
energy source, and his patent makes this clear... the noble gases he used
could have been important but ancillary in a surprising way.

Papp's original IP is entitled: Method  Means of Converting Atomic Energy
Into Utilizable Kinetic Energy. The Rohner's and other scammers who came
along later have clearer wanted to dodge this all-important issue of nuclear
power, because they cannot legally obtain radium, which is probably the sine
qua non for a working Papp engine. They cannot work without it.

The most interesting detail, for real science - is why Papp used this
particular mix instead of hydrogen. It probably was important and NOT a
stage prop, as mentioned. This rationale could actually involve a real
discovery by him - and it could related to gas interaction with an alpha
emitter. That would be especially true of helium - which is the bulk of the
mix, and is essentially a neutralized alpha.

In short, the real discovery of Papp, unbeknownst to even himself, could
relate to quantum correlation fields and entanglement. 

Here is my favorite citation for wisdom from comic books 
http://marvel.wikia.com/Probability_field 

and it is strangely apropos for fringe inventor and his 300 mph
submarine.

Jones

From: James Bowery 

Observing all the trouble Papp went to during the fueling of
his engine, it is rather difficult to believe that the noble gas was a mere
stage prop.
See:
http://inteligentry.com/shared/PappW/4-Fueling.mp4
Jojo Jaro wrote:

Funny, but Papp may have found a clever and magician trick
way of running an internal combustion engine making it appear to be
overunity.  With the process appearing to work with normal air, and now
hydrogen, the noble gas mixture may just have been a convenient and
effective magician's sleight of hand technique to divert attention from
his engine just being an ordinary Internal Combustion Engine.  Everybody was
focusing on the novelty of using a certain magic formula of noble gases
that nobody bothered to check the energy balance.  I believe this is what
happened. 


attachment: winmail.dat

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread Axil Axil

Radiation is just some hand waving that Papp used to confuse and
eventually kill off the competition.

I had a belief that hydrogen fusion was going on until yesterday. But when
I watched Video #11, I got the feeling that a shock wave was involved. Russ
increased the voltage(energy) of his spark and he got a bigger pop. Also
hydrogen fusion is very hard to do.

The Casmir force might be amplifying the speed and power of the shock wave
as it goes through the hydrogen.

This sort of thing is what LeClair says keeps his water crystal pushing
through metals for meters.

The van der Waals force also known as the Casmir force may well be where
the pop is coming from.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casmir_Effect


Where the Casmir force gets its power from, I do not know.

Some say that it is derived from the strong force which holds our universe
together, or from virtual particles which over time can destroy black
holes, or from zero pint energy.

But if a shockwave is the active agent is the Papp reaction, the bigger and
more powerful the wave, the better.

To get a better shockwave, we are interested in Pulsed power.

Pulse power is the science and technology of accumulating energy over a
relatively long period of time and releasing it very quickly, thus
increasing the instantaneous power.

Steady accumulation of energy followed by its rapid release can result in
the delivery of a larger amount of instantaneous power over a shorter
period of time (although the total energy is the same).

For example, if one joule of energy is stored within a capacitor and then
evenly released to a load over one second, the peak power delivered to the
load would only be 1 watt.

However, if all of the stored energy were released within one microsecond,
the peak power would be one megawatt, a million times greater.

I am interested in using those 1000 joules of power stored in Russ’s
capacitors and releasing it in 10 nanoseconds.

This will produce 100,000,000,000 watts (100,000 megawatts) of peak power.
This release of pulse power will produce a healthy supersonic shockwave in
the hydrogen plasma.

Cheers:   Axil

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

 Thanks Brad,

 A deluxe popper, indeed ! Even if the open-source part is in doubt, the
 need
 for a miracle is not.

 It will be interesting to see the energy balance, in the end. I hope that
 Russ will strive to provide that, even if a rough estimate. Otherwise this
 device may linger in the collective imagination for another half century.

 One thing for sure - the visuals in the videos are a throwback to 1971, in
 more way than one. The hat must be his borrowed trademark, since it seems
 to
 be worn in all of them.

 Terry will remember the done: Popeye Doyle and the porkpie hat he made
 famous in the French Connection. Say, didn't Gene Hackman look almost as
 old
 back then as he does now? Is that the inverse of 'ageless'?

 ... begging the question: is there some kind of weird synchronicity between
 the Popper, Popeye, and Papp (which Josef himself pronounced as pop) ?...
 or... that 1971 was shortly after Josef Papp arrived in Canada, aboard a
 300
 mph submarine:

 http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papp.html

 Say... is it me or do these strange time-warps have anything to do with the
 Bak'tun-13 rollover ?


 From: ecat builder


 Hi Vortex,

 Some updates on Papp development.. Which most of you know
 is
 a noble gas that is charged (by RF/spark) and drives a piston with an
 unexplained (?) force. Harvesting the force and residual energy to produce
 overunity power remains to be seen.


 http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Ex
 pansion_Motor



 An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being
 built by a 26 yr old whiz named Russ.
 He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder
 based on Bob's test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
 I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test
 noble gas mixtures.

 http://rwgresearch.com/
 https://www.youtube.com/user/rwg42985?feature=g-user-u

 http://www.open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=659
 Bob is chiming in with feedback, which is great to see. The
 forum is at 12 pages and is filled with interesting tidbits.


 Here is a (self-taught?) Dannel Roberts and his visit to
 Bob's shop.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=_zWJNyoFgJM
 Starting at 22:40 is Robert's theory of how the Papp engine
 creates a bang...


 Chuck (a LENR replicator) received his Popper Kit from
 John.
 It contains 15 pages of design/build notes and has a signal generator to
 drive 2 included spark coils.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lFt_q69dxkfeature=plcp

 Bob Rohner has also produced a few new

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread David Roberson

It is a bit premature to assume that hydrogen is actually working.  The amount 
of force driving the piston appears to be too small if we are to believe that 
one of these engines is capable of 100 HP.  I would expect the piston to be 
driven completely from the cylinder and into space if the required force is 
generated.


Russ is excited because he sees piston movement and I recall that he was 
impressed with the inert gasses earlier.


Someone should calculate what would be expected if the full joule load of the 
capacitor bank is applied to a piston.  Could Russ spray lighter fluid of the 
equivalent energy release into his device cylinder with only air?  Then we 
could see what would be expected if there is no magic to rely upon when this 
mixture explodes.  A drop would most likely be sufficient and if this test is 
attempted, make sure that proper safety measures are used.


When I was much younger, we made potato cannons that used lighter fluid for 
energy.  It only took a tiny amount to send a potato a hundred meters.


Dave






-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, Sep 30, 2012 2:28 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update


Unless both Papp and the Rohners are engaging in disinformation... both are
telling us to use what doesn't work, and even specifically saying that H
doesn't work when in fact is the only gas that does work.
-mi

_
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 3:02 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update


It's not exactly a proof of principle - and in fact it is closer to a
disproof of principle.

He gets little to no effect from the Noble gas mixture, but gets an
interesting effect from hydrogen. It is probably a hydrino effect. The
violet color is indicative of UV emission, which is the signature of the
Mill's f/H reaction.

Papp says over and over that he does not use hydrogen in his mix, and the
Rohner's agree. Therefore since hydrogen gives a rather strong effect, and
the Nobel gas mix gives almost none, by comparison, this amounts to a rather
compelling disproof of principle for Papp and/or a putative NGE.

Jones

From: Axil Axil 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBWiWftGknIlist=UULuDKTNDFfat7iO7KGE7fQAin
dex=1feature=plcp

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread James Bowery

For the third time: Check out Krytron technology!!!  It used a small amount
of radioactive Nickel to speed the rise time of the discharge.  Papp almost
certainly used Radium for the same purpose.

Quoting Spark Gap and Triggered Gap
Tubeshttp://www.electricstuff.co.uk/sparkgaps.html
:

The krytron is a high speed, high current gas filled tube. This tube can
switch thousands of amps at thousands of volts. It is similar to a
thyratron except that it is a 4 terminal device. The fourth terminal is a
keep alive electrode that maintains a glow discharge in the tube at all
times. This make the tube much faster and the timing more uniform. There is
also a small amount of radioactive Nickel in the tube. The ionization helps
further stabilize the propagation delay.


On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
 I think James could be correct that the choice of noble gases is NOT a
stage
 prop.

 However, and once again - keep in mind that Papp used radium as his prime
 energy source, and his patent makes this clear... the noble gases he used
 could have been important but ancillary in a surprising way.

 Papp's original IP is entitled: Method  Means of Converting Atomic
Energy
 Into Utilizable Kinetic Energy. The Rohner's and other scammers who came
 along later have clearer wanted to dodge this all-important issue of
nuclear
 power, because they cannot legally obtain radium, which is probably the
sine
 qua non for a working Papp engine. They cannot work without it.

 The most interesting detail, for real science - is why Papp used this
 particular mix instead of hydrogen. It probably was important and NOT a
 stage prop, as mentioned. This rationale could actually involve a real
 discovery by him - and it could related to gas interaction with an alpha
 emitter. That would be especially true of helium - which is the bulk of
the
 mix, and is essentially a neutralized alpha.

 In short, the real discovery of Papp, unbeknownst to even himself, could
 relate to quantum correlation fields and entanglement.

 Here is my favorite citation for wisdom from comic books
 http://marvel.wikia.com/Probability_field

 and it is strangely apropos for fringe inventor and his 300 mph
 submarine.

 Jones

 From: James Bowery

 Observing all the trouble Papp went to during the fueling
of
 his engine, it is rather difficult to believe that the noble gas was a
mere
 stage prop.
 See:
 http://inteligentry.com/shared/PappW/4-Fueling.mp4
 Jojo Jaro wrote:

 Funny, but Papp may have found a clever and magician
trick
 way of running an internal combustion engine making it appear to be
 overunity.  With the process appearing to work with normal air, and now
 hydrogen, the noble gas mixture may just have been a convenient and
 effective magician's sleight of hand technique to divert attention from
 his engine just being an ordinary Internal Combustion Engine.  Everybody
was
 focusing on the novelty of using a certain magic formula of noble
gases
 that nobody bothered to check the energy balance.  I believe this is what
 happened.

RE: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread Jones Beene

What's to check out? We've been there done that over the years with
krytrons - and it is a complete dead end, as is the modern-day Papp engine.

 

BTW Papp had no surplus capital, and would not have patented any device as
having radiation, only to fool competitors. even if there were any
competitors, which there were none. 

 

Krytrons are well-known, lossy, and have one main use - to trigger implosion
devices. where the fast sharp pulse with no delay - is of highest important.
Which is another reason why one does not even want to mention them too often
on a public forum. They are tightly regulated.

 

As a tetrode with constant glow, the krytron is in probably in the range of
50% efficiency at most. Why bother?

 

 

From: James Bowery 

 

For the third time: Check out Krytron technology!!!  It used a small amount
of radioactive Nickel to speed the rise time of the discharge.  Papp almost
certainly used Radium for the same purpose.

Quoting Spark Gap http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/sparkgaps.html  and
Triggered Gap Tubes:

The krytron is a high speed, high current gas filled tube. This tube can
switch thousands of amps at thousands of volts. It is similar to a thyratron
except that it is a 4 terminal device. The fourth terminal is a keep alive
electrode that maintains a glow discharge in the tube at all times. This
make the tube much faster and the timing more uniform. There is also a small
amount of radioactive Nickel in the tube. The ionization helps further
stabilize the propagation delay.


On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
 I think James could be correct that the choice of noble gases is NOT a
stage
 prop.

 However, and once again - keep in mind that Papp used radium as his prime
 energy source, and his patent makes this clear... the noble gases he used
 could have been important but ancillary in a surprising way.

 Papp's original IP is entitled: Method  Means of Converting Atomic
Energy
 Into Utilizable Kinetic Energy. The Rohner's and other scammers who came
 along later have clearer wanted to dodge this all-important issue of
nuclear
 power, because they cannot legally obtain radium, which is probably the
sine
 qua non for a working Papp engine. They cannot work without it.

 The most interesting detail, for real science - is why Papp used this
 particular mix instead of hydrogen. It probably was important and NOT a
 stage prop, as mentioned. This rationale could actually involve a real
 discovery by him - and it could related to gas interaction with an alpha
 emitter. That would be especially true of helium - which is the bulk of
the
 mix, and is essentially a neutralized alpha.

 In short, the real discovery of Papp, unbeknownst to even himself, could
 relate to quantum correlation fields and entanglement.

 Here is my favorite citation for wisdom from comic books
 http://marvel.wikia.com/Probability_field

 and it is strangely apropos for fringe inventor and his 300 mph
 submarine.

 Jones

 From: James Bowery

 Observing all the trouble Papp went to during the fueling
of
 his engine, it is rather difficult to believe that the noble gas was a
mere
 stage prop.
 See:
 http://inteligentry.com/shared/PappW/4-Fueling.mp4
 Jojo Jaro wrote:

 Funny, but Papp may have found a clever and magician
trick
 way of running an internal combustion engine making it appear to be
 overunity.  With the process appearing to work with normal air, and now
 hydrogen, the noble gas mixture may just have been a convenient and
 effective magician's sleight of hand technique to divert attention from
 his engine just being an ordinary Internal Combustion Engine.  Everybody
was
 focusing on the novelty of using a certain magic formula of noble
gases
 that nobody bothered to check the energy balance.  I believe this is what
 happened.

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread James Bowery

My response to Axil was prompted by his hypothesis that the critical
parameter was minimizing rise time and peak power of the ignition pulse.
 The efficiency of the pulse generator is of virtually no significance if
it is an ignitor of a larger energy source.  I'm not saying I believe
Axil's hypothesis about plasma shock waves -- I just don't know.  What I do
know is that if there is an anomalous effect it is a lot more likely to
appear in regimes which are rarely achieved in commonly available devices.

As for your concern about Krytrons being tightly regulated, I'm not talking
about producing Krytrons -- I'm talking about looking at their mechanism of
action for a clue since the Papp system seems to have much in common.

Indeed, if we are to suppose that some sort of nuclear energy source is
involved in the Papp engine, then it is _likely_ to involve an extrema in
rise time and peak power.

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

  As a tetrode with constant glow, the krytron is in probably in the range
 of 50% efficiency at most. Why bother?

 ** **

 ** **

 *From:* James Bowery 

 ** **

 For the third time: Check out Krytron technology!!!  It used a small
 amount of radioactive Nickel to speed the rise time of the discharge.  Papp
 almost certainly used Radium for the same purpose.

 Quoting Spark Gap and Triggered Gap 
 Tubeshttp://www.electricstuff.co.uk/sparkgaps.html
 :

 The krytron is a high speed, high current gas filled tube. This tube can
 switch thousands of amps at thousands of volts. It is similar to a
 thyratron except that it is a 4 terminal device. The fourth terminal is a
 keep alive electrode that maintains a glow discharge in the tube at all
 times. This make the tube much faster and the timing more uniform. There is
 also a small amount of radioactive Nickel in the tube. The ionization helps
 further stabilize the propagation delay.


 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
  I think James could be correct that the choice of noble gases is NOT a
 stage
  prop.
 
  However, and once again - keep in mind that Papp used radium as his prime
  energy source, and his patent makes this clear... the noble gases he used
  could have been important but ancillary in a surprising way.
 
  Papp's original IP is entitled: Method  Means of Converting Atomic
 Energy
  Into Utilizable Kinetic Energy. The Rohner's and other scammers who came
  along later have clearer wanted to dodge this all-important issue of
 nuclear
  power, because they cannot legally obtain radium, which is probably the
 sine
  qua non for a working Papp engine. They cannot work without it.
 
  The most interesting detail, for real science - is why Papp used this
  particular mix instead of hydrogen. It probably was important and NOT a
  stage prop, as mentioned. This rationale could actually involve a real
  discovery by him - and it could related to gas interaction with an alpha
  emitter. That would be especially true of helium - which is the bulk of
 the
  mix, and is essentially a neutralized alpha.
 
  In short, the real discovery of Papp, unbeknownst to even himself, could
  relate to quantum correlation fields and entanglement.
 
  Here is my favorite citation for wisdom from comic books
  http://marvel.wikia.com/Probability_field
 
  and it is strangely apropos for fringe inventor and his 300 mph
  submarine.
 
  Jones
 
  From: James Bowery
 
  Observing all the trouble Papp went to during the
 fueling of
  his engine, it is rather difficult to believe that the noble gas was a
 mere
  stage prop.
  See:
  http://inteligentry.com/shared/PappW/4-Fueling.mp4
  Jojo Jaro wrote:
 
  Funny, but Papp may have found a clever and magician
 trick
  way of running an internal combustion engine making it appear to be
  overunity.  With the process appearing to work with normal air, and now
  hydrogen, the noble gas mixture may just have been a convenient and
  effective magician's sleight of hand technique to divert attention from
  his engine just being an ordinary Internal Combustion Engine.  Everybody
 was
  focusing on the novelty of using a certain magic formula of noble
 gases
  that nobody bothered to check the energy balance.  I believe this is what
  happened.

RE: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread Jones Beene

OK. I agree that -in general- fast rise times and shock waves can explain
overunity in pulsed systems, if it exists. Big if. But the efficiency of
the PS (power supply) is always critical in these systems, if any gain is to
be derivative from acceleration.

 

And first  foremost, one must show overunity. One cannot say that because
there is a putative explanation, then that explanation severs to provide the
missing data. Papp, in the modern day scam, is all about the missing data.
It's not just missing - there is none.

 

BTW an adequate explanation of why the shock wave could be gainful, if
proved, is found simply in the power laws of motion wrt time, and in the
so-called exponential enhancements to velocity: jerk or jounce. Anything
above acceleration, which is fully conservative, could be gainful- to the
extent that the PS is efficient. 

 

But then again, vorticians share a level of suspicion (in the fizzix
establishment) similar to what the Jamaican Bobsled Team gets in winter
sports ... along with a taste for spicy food ('jerk').

 

Patois patronization, so to speak. It's all the derivative, mon.

 

dL/dTVELOCITY

d2L/dT2 ACCELERATION

d3L/dT3 JERK

d4L/dT4 JOUNCE

 

From: James Bowery 

 

My response to Axil was prompted by his hypothesis that the critical
parameter was minimizing rise time and peak power of the ignition pulse.
The efficiency of the pulse generator is of virtually no significance if it
is an ignitor of a larger energy source.  I'm not saying I believe Axil's
hypothesis about plasma shock waves -- I just don't know.  What I do know is
that if there is an anomalous effect it is a lot more likely to appear in
regimes which are rarely achieved in commonly available devices.  

 

As for your concern about Krytrons being tightly regulated, I'm not talking
about producing Krytrons -- I'm talking about looking at their mechanism of
action for a clue since the Papp system seems to have much in common.  

 

Indeed, if we are to suppose that some sort of nuclear energy source is
involved in the Papp engine, then it is _likely_ to involve an extrema in
rise time and peak power.

 

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

As a tetrode with constant glow, the krytron is in probably in the range of
50% efficiency at most. Why bother?

 

 

From: James Bowery 

 

For the third time: Check out Krytron technology!!!  It used a small amount
of radioactive Nickel to speed the rise time of the discharge.  Papp almost
certainly used Radium for the same purpose.

Quoting Spark Gap and Triggered Gap Tubes
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/sparkgaps.html :

The krytron is a high speed, high current gas filled tube. This tube can
switch thousands of amps at thousands of volts. It is similar to a thyratron
except that it is a 4 terminal device. The fourth terminal is a keep alive
electrode that maintains a glow discharge in the tube at all times. This
make the tube much faster and the timing more uniform. There is also a small
amount of radioactive Nickel in the tube. The ionization helps further
stabilize the propagation delay.


On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
 I think James could be correct that the choice of noble gases is NOT a
stage
 prop.

 However, and once again - keep in mind that Papp used radium as his prime
 energy source, and his patent makes this clear... the noble gases he used
 could have been important but ancillary in a surprising way.

 Papp's original IP is entitled: Method  Means of Converting Atomic
Energy
 Into Utilizable Kinetic Energy. The Rohner's and other scammers who came
 along later have clearer wanted to dodge this all-important issue of
nuclear
 power, because they cannot legally obtain radium, which is probably the
sine
 qua non for a working Papp engine. They cannot work without it.

 The most interesting detail, for real science - is why Papp used this
 particular mix instead of hydrogen. It probably was important and NOT a
 stage prop, as mentioned. This rationale could actually involve a real
 discovery by him - and it could related to gas interaction with an alpha
 emitter. That would be especially true of helium - which is the bulk of
the
 mix, and is essentially a neutralized alpha.

 In short, the real discovery of Papp, unbeknownst to even himself, could
 relate to quantum correlation fields and entanglement.

 Here is my favorite citation for wisdom from comic books
 http://marvel.wikia.com/Probability_field

 and it is strangely apropos for fringe inventor and his 300 mph
 submarine.

 Jones

 From: James Bowery

 Observing all the trouble Papp went to during the fueling
of
 his engine, it is rather difficult to believe that the noble gas was a
mere
 stage prop.
 See:
 http://inteligentry.com/shared/PappW/4-Fueling.mp4
 Jojo Jaro wrote:

 Funny, but Papp may have

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread James Bowery

Don't go gettin' all Davis on my punk-ass just because I mentioned
discontinuity in the context of anomaly.  I did mention nuclear.

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 6:15 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
 OK. I agree that -in general- fast rise times and shock waves can explain
 overunity in pulsed systems, if it exists. Big “if”. But the efficiency of
 the PS (power supply) is always critical in these systems, if any gain is to
 be derivative from acceleration.



 And first  foremost, one must show overunity. One cannot say that because
 there is a putative explanation, then that explanation severs to provide the
 missing data. Papp, in the modern day scam, is all about the missing data.
 It’s not just missing - there is none.



 BTW an adequate explanation of “why” the shock wave could be gainful, if
 proved, is found simply in the power laws of motion wrt time, and in the
 so-called exponential enhancements to velocity: “jerk” or “jounce”. Anything
 above acceleration, which is fully conservative, could be gainful- to the
 extent that the PS is efficient.



 But then again, vorticians share a level of suspicion (in the fizzix
 establishment) similar to what the Jamaican Bobsled Team gets in winter
 sports ... along with a taste for spicy food ('jerk').



 Patois patronization, so to speak. It’s all the derivative, mon.



 dL/dTVELOCITY

 d2L/dT2 ACCELERATION

 d3L/dT3 JERK

 d4L/dT4 JOUNCE



 From: James Bowery



 My response to Axil was prompted by his hypothesis that the critical
 parameter was minimizing rise time and peak power of the ignition pulse.
 The efficiency of the pulse generator is of virtually no significance if it
 is an ignitor of a larger energy source.  I'm not saying I believe Axil's
 hypothesis about plasma shock waves -- I just don't know.  What I do know is
 that if there is an anomalous effect it is a lot more likely to appear in
 regimes which are rarely achieved in commonly available devices.



 As for your concern about Krytrons being tightly regulated, I'm not talking
 about producing Krytrons -- I'm talking about looking at their mechanism of
 action for a clue since the Papp system seems to have much in common.



 Indeed, if we are to suppose that some sort of nuclear energy source is
 involved in the Papp engine, then it is _likely_ to involve an extrema in
 rise time and peak power.



 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

 As a tetrode with constant glow, the krytron is in probably in the range of
 50% efficiency at most. Why bother?





 From: James Bowery



 For the third time: Check out Krytron technology!!!  It used a small amount
 of radioactive Nickel to speed the rise time of the discharge.  Papp almost
 certainly used Radium for the same purpose.

 Quoting Spark Gap and Triggered Gap Tubes:

 The krytron is a high speed, high current gas filled tube. This tube can
 switch thousands of amps at thousands of volts. It is similar to a thyratron
 except that it is a 4 terminal device. The fourth terminal is a keep alive
 electrode that maintains a glow discharge in the tube at all times. This
 make the tube much faster and the timing more uniform. There is also a small
 amount of radioactive Nickel in the tube. The ionization helps further
 stabilize the propagation delay.


 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
 I think James could be correct that the choice of noble gases is NOT a
 stage
 prop.

 However, and once again - keep in mind that Papp used radium as his prime
 energy source, and his patent makes this clear... the noble gases he used
 could have been important but ancillary in a surprising way.

 Papp's original IP is entitled: Method  Means of Converting Atomic
 Energy
 Into Utilizable Kinetic Energy. The Rohner's and other scammers who came
 along later have clearer wanted to dodge this all-important issue of
 nuclear
 power, because they cannot legally obtain radium, which is probably the
 sine
 qua non for a working Papp engine. They cannot work without it.

 The most interesting detail, for real science - is why Papp used this
 particular mix instead of hydrogen. It probably was important and NOT a
 stage prop, as mentioned. This rationale could actually involve a real
 discovery by him - and it could related to gas interaction with an alpha
 emitter. That would be especially true of helium - which is the bulk of
 the
 mix, and is essentially a neutralized alpha.

 In short, the real discovery of Papp, unbeknownst to even himself, could
 relate to quantum correlation fields and entanglement.

 Here is my favorite citation for wisdom from comic books
 http://marvel.wikia.com/Probability_field

 and it is strangely apropos for fringe inventor and his 300 mph
 submarine.

 Jones

 From: James Bowery

 Observing all the trouble Papp went to during the fueling
 of
 his engine, it is rather difficult to believe that the

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-30 Thread James Bowery

Although, come to think of it, didn't William O. Davis do his initial
theoretic work at EGG?

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 7:15 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
 Don't go gettin' all Davis on my punk-ass just because I mentioned
 discontinuity in the context of anomaly.  I did mention nuclear.

 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 6:15 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
 OK. I agree that -in general- fast rise times and shock waves can explain
 overunity in pulsed systems, if it exists. Big “if”. But the efficiency of
 the PS (power supply) is always critical in these systems, if any gain is to
 be derivative from acceleration.



 And first  foremost, one must show overunity. One cannot say that because
 there is a putative explanation, then that explanation severs to provide the
 missing data. Papp, in the modern day scam, is all about the missing data.
 It’s not just missing - there is none.



 BTW an adequate explanation of “why” the shock wave could be gainful, if
 proved, is found simply in the power laws of motion wrt time, and in the
 so-called exponential enhancements to velocity: “jerk” or “jounce”. Anything
 above acceleration, which is fully conservative, could be gainful- to the
 extent that the PS is efficient.



 But then again, vorticians share a level of suspicion (in the fizzix
 establishment) similar to what the Jamaican Bobsled Team gets in winter
 sports ... along with a taste for spicy food ('jerk').



 Patois patronization, so to speak. It’s all the derivative, mon.



 dL/dTVELOCITY

 d2L/dT2 ACCELERATION

 d3L/dT3 JERK

 d4L/dT4 JOUNCE



 From: James Bowery



 My response to Axil was prompted by his hypothesis that the critical
 parameter was minimizing rise time and peak power of the ignition pulse.
 The efficiency of the pulse generator is of virtually no significance if it
 is an ignitor of a larger energy source.  I'm not saying I believe Axil's
 hypothesis about plasma shock waves -- I just don't know.  What I do know is
 that if there is an anomalous effect it is a lot more likely to appear in
 regimes which are rarely achieved in commonly available devices.



 As for your concern about Krytrons being tightly regulated, I'm not talking
 about producing Krytrons -- I'm talking about looking at their mechanism of
 action for a clue since the Papp system seems to have much in common.



 Indeed, if we are to suppose that some sort of nuclear energy source is
 involved in the Papp engine, then it is _likely_ to involve an extrema in
 rise time and peak power.



 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

 As a tetrode with constant glow, the krytron is in probably in the range of
 50% efficiency at most. Why bother?





 From: James Bowery



 For the third time: Check out Krytron technology!!!  It used a small amount
 of radioactive Nickel to speed the rise time of the discharge.  Papp almost
 certainly used Radium for the same purpose.

 Quoting Spark Gap and Triggered Gap Tubes:

 The krytron is a high speed, high current gas filled tube. This tube can
 switch thousands of amps at thousands of volts. It is similar to a thyratron
 except that it is a 4 terminal device. The fourth terminal is a keep alive
 electrode that maintains a glow discharge in the tube at all times. This
 make the tube much faster and the timing more uniform. There is also a small
 amount of radioactive Nickel in the tube. The ionization helps further
 stabilize the propagation delay.


 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
 I think James could be correct that the choice of noble gases is NOT a
 stage
 prop.

 However, and once again - keep in mind that Papp used radium as his prime
 energy source, and his patent makes this clear... the noble gases he used
 could have been important but ancillary in a surprising way.

 Papp's original IP is entitled: Method  Means of Converting Atomic
 Energy
 Into Utilizable Kinetic Energy. The Rohner's and other scammers who came
 along later have clearer wanted to dodge this all-important issue of
 nuclear
 power, because they cannot legally obtain radium, which is probably the
 sine
 qua non for a working Papp engine. They cannot work without it.

 The most interesting detail, for real science - is why Papp used this
 particular mix instead of hydrogen. It probably was important and NOT a
 stage prop, as mentioned. This rationale could actually involve a real
 discovery by him - and it could related to gas interaction with an alpha
 emitter. That would be especially true of helium - which is the bulk of
 the
 mix, and is essentially a neutralized alpha.

 In short, the real discovery of Papp, unbeknownst to even himself, could
 relate to quantum correlation fields and entanglement.

 Here is my favorite citation for wisdom from comic books
 http://marvel.wikia.com/Probability_field

 and it is strangely apropos for fringe inventor and his 300 mph
 submarine.

 Jones

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-29 Thread Axil Axil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBWiWftGknIlist=UULuDKTNDFfat7iO7KGE7fQAindex=1feature=plcp
Russ
got the popper to work using hydrogen in a proof of principle exercise. The
force produced by the hydrogen gas expansion is substantial and there also
seems to be an electric charge feedback happening. Cheers: Axil

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

RE: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-29 Thread Jones Beene

It's not exactly a proof of principle - and in fact it is closer to a
disproof of principle.

He gets little to no effect from the Noble gas mixture, but gets an
interesting effect from hydrogen. It is probably a hydrino effect. The
violet color is indicative of UV emission, which is the signature of the
Mill's f/H reaction.

Papp says over and over that he does not use hydrogen in his mix, and the
Rohner's agree. Therefore since hydrogen gives a rather strong effect, and
the Nobel gas mix gives almost none, by comparison, this amounts to a rather
compelling disproof of principle for Papp and/or a putative NGE.

Jones

From: Axil Axil 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBWiWftGknIlist=UULuDKTNDFfat7iO7KGE7fQAin
dex=1feature=plcp

attachment: winmail.dat

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-29 Thread Axil Axil

Video #11, tends to support my belief that the power, force, and speed of
gas expansion is inversely proportional to the duration of the spark. When
the duration of the spark is short, the compressive force of the gas grows
large. A very short spark is a powerful spark. This powerful spark will
produce a powerful and forceful expansion of the gas.

To get gas expansion to the maximum, the duration of the spark must be
reduced to the minimum duration possible.

To optimize gas performance, I recommend a spark rise time under 50
nanoseconds with a very short duration to produce the most powerful
explosive and forceful expansion of the gas.

Video #11 shows that a continuous high voltage spark does not cause gas
expansion, but a short and powerful spark with a very short duration does.

It is not the energy that the spark carries in joules. It is how fast this
energy is delivered to the gas.

This is analogous to how explosives perform.

Low explosives are compounds where the rate of decomposition proceeds
through the material at less than the speed of sound. The decomposition is
propagated by a flame front (deflagration) which travels much more slowly
through the explosive material than a shock wave of a high explosive.

High explosives are explosive materials that detonate, meaning that the
explosive shock front passes through the material at a supersonic speed.

Some theory

Because of the Pauli Exclusion Principle, no two electrons can orbit the
atom on the same quantum level.

Electron degeneracy pressure is a particular manifestation of the more
general phenomenon of quantum degeneracy pressure. The Pauli Exclusion
Principle disallows two half integer spin particles (fermions, that is
electrons) from simultaneously occupying the same quantum state. The
resulting emergent repulsive force is manifested as a pressure against
compression of matter into smaller volumes of space.

Electron degeneracy pressure results from the same underlying mechanism
that defines the electron orbital structure of elemental matter.

When electrons are squeezed too close together, the exclusion principle
requires them to have different energy levels. To add another electron to a
given volume requires raising an electron's energy level to make room, and
this requirement for energy to compress the material appears as a pressure.

A big spark packs large numbers of electrons into fixed volume in a very
short amount of time and the gas explodes due to electrostatic increasing
repulsion.

At any given instant, the more electrons that are added to a gas, the
bigger the gas atoms gets in that fixed timeframe. This causes
electrostatic pressure increase as all the atoms of the gas grow bigger at
the same fixed instant of time.

If the spark pulse is short and powerful enough, an electrostatic shock
wave may be produced that may then result in an intense level of
compression and electron nuclear screening which then results in associated
nuclear reactions.

It is well known the lightning produces gamma rays neutrons and
transmutation of matter.

This electrostatic shock wave may be causing this type of nuclear activity.

QED.

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

It's not exactly a proof of principle - and in fact it is closer to a
disproof of principle.

He gets little to no effect from the Noble gas mixture, but gets an
interesting effect from hydrogen. It is probably a hydrino effect. The
violet color is indicative of UV emission, which is the signature of the
Mill's f/H reaction.

Papp says over and over that he does not use hydrogen in his mix, and the
Rohner's agree. Therefore since hydrogen gives a rather strong effect, and
the Nobel gas mix gives almost none, by comparison, this amounts to a
rather
compelling disproof of principle for Papp and/or a putative NGE.

Jones

From: Axil Axil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBWiWftGknIlist=UULuDKTNDFfat7iO7KGE7fQAin
dex=1feature=plcphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBWiWftGknIlist=UULuDKTNDFfat7iO7KGE7fQAindex=1feature=plcp

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-29 Thread David Roberson

Thanks for posting the link to this interesting experimentation Axil.  I do not 
recall Russ stating that he tried normal room air in a test.  Do you know 
whether or not he tried this?  It would seem like an obvious thing to do.


Dave



-Original Message-
From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, Sep 29, 2012 5:26 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBWiWftGknIlist=UULuDKTNDFfat7iO7KGE7fQAindex=1feature=plcp
Russ got the popper to work using hydrogen in a proof of principleexercise. The 
force produced by the hydrogen gas expansion is substantial andthere also seems 
to be an electric charge feedback happening.  
Cheers:   Axil



On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Vortex,

Some updates on Papp development.. Which most of you know is a noble gas that 
is charged (by RF/spark) and drives a piston with an unexplained (?) force. 
Harvesting the force and residual energy to produce overunity power remains to 
be seen.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor



An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26 yr old 
whiz named Russ.
He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on Bob's test 
unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas mixtures. 

http://rwgresearch.com/ 
https://www.youtube.com/user/rwg42985?feature=g-user-u
http://www.open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=659
Bob is chiming in with feedback, which is great to see. The forum is at 12 
pages and is filled with interesting tidbits. 


Here is a (self-taught?) Dannel Roberts and his visit to Bob's shop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=_zWJNyoFgJM
Starting at 22:40 is Robert's theory of how the Papp engine creates a bang... 


Chuck (a LENR replicator) received his Popper Kit from John. It contains 15 
pages of design/build notes and has a signal generator to drive 2 included 
spark coils. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lFt_q69dxkfeature=plcp  

Bob Rohner has also produced a few new movies, one warning of the potential 
dangers of building a popper.. another showing the system running without a 
coil, dispelling the thought that the coil could be the source of the force, 
showing that compressed air is not used. 
http://www.rohnermachine.com/pagedocuments.html
https://www.youtube.com/user/bjrohner?feature=g-user-u

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a lot of 
work, luck, and miracles may still be needed. 

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-29 Thread Axil Axil

Yes, he tried air in a past trial and air expantion was greater than the
noble gas mix. Popping air caused all sorts of chemical reactions and was
smelly. Hydrogen expantion is the most powerful so far.

Cheers:Axil

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 8:33 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

Thanks for posting the link to this interesting experimentation Axil. I
do not recall Russ stating that he tried normal room air in a test. Do you
know whether or not he tried this? It would seem like an obvious thing to
do.

Dave

-Original Message-
From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, Sep 29, 2012 5:26 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26
yr old whiz named Russ.
He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on
Bob's test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas
mixtures.

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-29 Thread Axil Axil

that shocks and the instabilities they create may play a
larger role in transferring the energy from the plasma's bulk movement into
heat, than previously thought. Wilson believes that the instabilities
caused something called perpendicular ion heating -- a process that
increases the random kinetic energy of the positively-charged ions in a
direction perpendicular to the background magnetic field. The waves also
added energy to the negatively-charged electrons -- with the greatest
effects observed not being heating, the random kinetic energy, but bulk
acceleration in a direction parallel to the magnetic field.

The same type of wave-particle interaction is thought to happen in solar
flares, the heating of the sun's corona, and supernova blast waves, says
Wilson. All of these energizations have very similar properties. Now we
have evidence that these Whistler-like fluctuations may be causing heating
in all these places.

Understanding the mechanics behind all these events requires collating and
categorizing an entire zoo of waves and processes. Wilson's work may be but
one piece of a larger puzzle, but together, teasing out the motions of
plasmas will help scientists describe the laws of motion that govern the
entire universe.

Cheers: Axil

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 8:55 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

Cheers:Axil

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 8:33 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.comwrote:

Dave

-Original Message-
From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, Sep 29, 2012 5:26 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26
yr old whiz named Russ.
He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on
Bob's test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas
mixtures.

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-29 Thread Jojo Jaro

Axil,

Russ delivers 1000 joules of energy per spark with his high voltage and huge 
capacitor banks.  If he does this at a continuous rate of 1 spark per second, 
that would be 1000 Watts of energy delivered/inputted into his papper cylinder.

It seems to me that the piston jump of 6 inches with a light weight piston DOES 
NOT equate to 1000 Watts of power.  This does not look like it is overunity.  
This appears to be just ordinary thermodynamic expansion of the gas due to 
inputted energy.  Nothing appears to be special here.

Now, I am willing to be wrong.  I do not have the time nor the inclination to 
watch all his videos from 1 to 11.  I watch 9 and 11 partially.  In his other 
videos, did he mention how much the weight of his piston is?  If he did, maybe 
you can calculate the amount of work performed on the piston with a 6 inch 
travel upwards.  This would probably be around 10%-20% efficiency, which would 
totally be consistent with a thermodynamic expansion cycle of a compressed gas. 
 Seems to me this is nothing more than an internal combustion engine, with the 
spark providing the raw energy for gas expansion.

Funny, but Papp may have found a clever and magician trick way of running an 
internal combustion engine making it appear to be overunity.  With the process 
appearing to work with normal air, and now hydrogen, the noble gas mixture 
may just have been a convenient and effective magician's sleight of hand 
technique to divert attention from his engine just being an ordinary Internal 
Combustion Engine.  Everybody was focusing on the novelty of using a certain 
magic formula of noble gases that nobody bothered to check the energy 
balance.  I believe this is what happened.


Jojo


  - Original Message - 
  From: Axil Axil 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 7:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update


  Video #11, tends to support my belief that the power, force, and speed of gas 
expansion is inversely proportional to the duration of the spark. When the 
duration of the spark is short, the compressive force of the gas grows large. A 
very short spark is a powerful spark. This powerful spark will produce a 
powerful and forceful expansion of the gas.

  To get gas expansion to the maximum, the duration of the spark must be 
reduced to the minimum duration possible.

  To optimize gas performance, I recommend a spark rise time under 50 
nanoseconds with a very short duration to produce the most powerful explosive 
and forceful expansion of the gas. 

  Video #11 shows that a continuous high voltage spark does not cause gas 
expansion, but a short and powerful spark with a very short duration does.

  It is not the energy that the spark carries in joules. It is how fast this 
energy is delivered to the gas.

  This is analogous to how explosives perform.

  Low explosives are compounds where the rate of decomposition proceeds through 
the material at less than the speed of sound. The decomposition is propagated 
by a flame front (deflagration) which travels much more slowly through the 
explosive material than a shock wave of a high explosive. 

  High explosives are explosive materials that detonate, meaning that the 
explosive shock front passes through the material at a supersonic speed. 

  Some theory

  Because of the Pauli Exclusion Principle, no two electrons can orbit the atom 
on the same quantum level.

  Electron degeneracy pressure is a particular manifestation of the more 
general phenomenon of quantum degeneracy pressure. The Pauli Exclusion 
Principle disallows two half integer spin particles (fermions, that is 
electrons) from simultaneously occupying the same quantum state. The resulting 
emergent repulsive force is manifested as a pressure against compression of 
matter into smaller volumes of space. 

  Electron degeneracy pressure results from the same underlying mechanism that 
defines the electron orbital structure of elemental matter. 

  When electrons are squeezed too close together, the exclusion principle 
requires them to have different energy levels. To add another electron to a 
given volume requires raising an electron's energy level to make room, and this 
requirement for energy to compress the material appears as a pressure.

  A big spark packs large numbers of electrons into fixed volume in a very 
short amount of time and the gas explodes due to electrostatic increasing 
repulsion.

  At any given instant, the more electrons that are added to a gas, the bigger 
the gas atoms gets in that fixed timeframe. This causes electrostatic pressure 
increase as all the atoms of the gas grow bigger at the same fixed instant of 
time.

  If the spark pulse is short and powerful enough, an electrostatic shock wave 
may be produced that may then result in an intense level of compression and 
electron nuclear screening which then results in associated nuclear reactions.

  It is well known the lightning produces gamma rays

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-29 Thread Axil Axil

One point about the energy balance that you have not considered is the
amount of energy contained in the feedback current that Russ is seeing when
the plasma is relaxing. This current jumped an air gap, blew out all his
high powered diodes along with his neon light.

This feedback current was strong enough to power the alternate cylinder in
a two cylinder configuration making the Papp engine self-powered after the
initial startup excitation.
Cheers:Axil


On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote:

 **
 Axil,

 Russ delivers 1000 joules of energy per spark with his high voltage and
 huge capacitor banks.  If he does this at a continuous rate of 1 spark per
 second, that would be 1000 Watts of energy delivered/inputted into his
 papper cylinder.

 It seems to me that the piston jump of 6 inches with a light weight piston
 DOES NOT equate to 1000 Watts of power.  This does not look like it is
 overunity.  This appears to be just ordinary thermodynamic expansion of the
 gas due to inputted energy.  Nothing appears to be special here.

 Now, I am willing to be wrong.  I do not have the time nor the inclination
 to watch all his videos from 1 to 11.  I watch 9 and 11 partially.  In his
 other videos, did he mention how much the weight of his piston is?  If he
 did, maybe you can calculate the amount of work performed on the piston
 with a 6 inch travel upwards.  This would probably be around 10%-20%
 efficiency, which would totally be consistent with a thermodynamic
 expansion cycle of a compressed gas.  Seems to me this is nothing more than
 an internal combustion engine, with the spark providing the raw energy for
 gas expansion.

 Funny, but Papp may have found a clever and magician trick way of
 running an internal combustion engine making it appear to be overunity.
 With the process appearing to work with normal air, and now hydrogen, the
 noble gas mixture may just have been a convenient and effective
 magician's sleight of hand technique to divert attention from his engine
 just being an ordinary Internal Combustion Engine.  Everybody was focusing
 on the novelty of using a certain magic formula of noble gases that
 nobody bothered to check the energy balance.  I believe this is what
 happened.


 Jojo



 - Original Message -
 *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2012 7:58 AM
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

 Video #11, tends to support my belief that the power, force, and speed of
 gas expansion is inversely proportional to the duration of the spark. When
 the duration of the spark is short, the compressive force of the gas grows
 large. A very short spark is a powerful spark. This powerful spark will
 produce a powerful and forceful expansion of the gas.

 To get gas expansion to the maximum, the duration of the spark must be
 reduced to the minimum duration possible.

 To optimize gas performance, I recommend a spark rise time under 50
 nanoseconds with a very short duration to produce the most powerful
 explosive and forceful expansion of the gas.

 Video #11 shows that a continuous high voltage spark does not cause gas
 expansion, but a short and powerful spark with a very short duration does.

 It is not the energy that the spark carries in joules. It is how fast this
 energy is delivered to the gas.

 This is analogous to how explosives perform.

 Low explosives are compounds where the rate of decomposition proceeds
 through the material at less than the speed of sound. The decomposition is
 propagated by a flame front (deflagration) which travels much more slowly
 through the explosive material than a shock wave of a high explosive.

 High explosives are explosive materials that detonate, meaning that the
 explosive shock front passes through the material at a supersonic speed.

 Some theory

 Because of the Pauli Exclusion Principle, no two electrons can orbit the
 atom on the same quantum level.

 Electron degeneracy pressure is a particular manifestation of the more
 general phenomenon of quantum degeneracy pressure. The Pauli Exclusion
 Principle disallows two half integer spin particles (fermions, that is
 electrons) from simultaneously occupying the same quantum state. The
 resulting emergent repulsive force is manifested as a pressure against
 compression of matter into smaller volumes of space.

 Electron degeneracy pressure results from the same underlying mechanism
 that defines the electron orbital structure of elemental matter.

 When electrons are squeezed too close together, the exclusion principle
 requires them to have different energy levels. To add another electron to a
 given volume requires raising an electron's energy level to make room, and
 this requirement for energy to compress the material appears as a pressure.

 A big spark packs large numbers of electrons into fixed volume in a very
 short amount of time and the gas explodes due to electrostatic increasing

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-29 Thread Jojo Jaro

How did you come to this conclusion?  Have I missed a video that Russ powered a 
second opposing cylinder from the feedback of the first?

Are you referring to some other papper engine built by somebody else?

I think you may be guilty again of conflating anecdotal evidence from various 
videos to come to the wrong conclusion.  But, I would be very much happier if I 
am wrong.  That would only mean we can free ourselves from raghead slavery.  
So, please correct me.

Jojo



  - Original Message - 
  From: Axil Axil 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 12:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update



  One point about the energy balance that you have not considered is the amount 
of energy contained in the feedback current that Russ is seeing when the plasma 
is relaxing. This current jumped an air gap, blew out all his high powered 
diodes along with his neon light.


  This feedback current was strong enough to power the alternate cylinder in a 
two cylinder configuration making the Papp engine self-powered after the 
initial startup excitation.

  Cheers:Axil



  On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote:

Axil,

Russ delivers 1000 joules of energy per spark with his high voltage and 
huge capacitor banks.  If he does this at a continuous rate of 1 spark per 
second, that would be 1000 Watts of energy delivered/inputted into his papper 
cylinder.

It seems to me that the piston jump of 6 inches with a light weight piston 
DOES NOT equate to 1000 Watts of power.  This does not look like it is 
overunity.  This appears to be just ordinary thermodynamic expansion of the gas 
due to inputted energy.  Nothing appears to be special here.

Now, I am willing to be wrong.  I do not have the time nor the inclination 
to watch all his videos from 1 to 11.  I watch 9 and 11 partially.  In his 
other videos, did he mention how much the weight of his piston is?  If he did, 
maybe you can calculate the amount of work performed on the piston with a 6 
inch travel upwards.  This would probably be around 10%-20% efficiency, which 
would totally be consistent with a thermodynamic expansion cycle of a 
compressed gas.  Seems to me this is nothing more than an internal combustion 
engine, with the spark providing the raw energy for gas expansion.

Funny, but Papp may have found a clever and magician trick way of running 
an internal combustion engine making it appear to be overunity.  With the 
process appearing to work with normal air, and now hydrogen, the noble gas 
mixture may just have been a convenient and effective magician's sleight of 
hand technique to divert attention from his engine just being an ordinary 
Internal Combustion Engine.  Everybody was focusing on the novelty of using a 
certain magic formula of noble gases that nobody bothered to check the energy 
balance.  I believe this is what happened.


Jojo


  - Original Message - 
  From: Axil Axil 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 7:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update


  Video #11, tends to support my belief that the power, force, and speed of 
gas expansion is inversely proportional to the duration of the spark. When the 
duration of the spark is short, the compressive force of the gas grows large. A 
very short spark is a powerful spark. This powerful spark will produce a 
powerful and forceful expansion of the gas.

  To get gas expansion to the maximum, the duration of the spark must be 
reduced to the minimum duration possible.

  To optimize gas performance, I recommend a spark rise time under 50 
nanoseconds with a very short duration to produce the most powerful explosive 
and forceful expansion of the gas. 

  Video #11 shows that a continuous high voltage spark does not cause gas 
expansion, but a short and powerful spark with a very short duration does.

  It is not the energy that the spark carries in joules. It is how fast 
this energy is delivered to the gas.

  This is analogous to how explosives perform.

  Low explosives are compounds where the rate of decomposition proceeds 
through the material at less than the speed of sound. The decomposition is 
propagated by a flame front (deflagration) which travels much more slowly 
through the explosive material than a shock wave of a high explosive. 

  High explosives are explosive materials that detonate, meaning that the 
explosive shock front passes through the material at a supersonic speed. 

  Some theory

  Because of the Pauli Exclusion Principle, no two electrons can orbit the 
atom on the same quantum level.

  Electron degeneracy pressure is a particular manifestation of the more 
general phenomenon of quantum degeneracy pressure. The Pauli Exclusion 
Principle disallows two half integer spin particles (fermions, that is 
electrons) from simultaneously occupying the same

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-29 Thread Axil Axil

I said ...Papp engine self-powered  I was talking about the Papp
engine. This info is in his patent. This was the reson why the Papp engine
exploded in the finemen incident when the power to the controls was removed.

Papp would not have been issued a patent unless the engine worked.



On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote:

 **
 How did you come to this conclusion?  Have I missed a video that Russ
 powered a second opposing cylinder from the feedback of the first?

 Are you referring to some other papper engine built by somebody else?

 I think you may be guilty again of conflating anecdotal evidence from
 various videos to come to the wrong conclusion.  But, I would be very
 much happier if I am wrong.  That would only mean we can free ourselves
 from raghead slavery.  So, please correct me.

 Jojo




 - Original Message -
 *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2012 12:58 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

  One point about the energy balance that you have not considered is the
 amount of energy contained in the feedback current that Russ is seeing when
 the plasma is relaxing. This current jumped an air gap, blew out all his
 high powered diodes along with his neon light.

 This feedback current was strong enough to power the alternate cylinder in
 a two cylinder configuration making the Papp engine self-powered after the
 initial startup excitation.
  Cheers:Axil


 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote:

 **
 Axil,

 Russ delivers 1000 joules of energy per spark with his high voltage and
 huge capacitor banks.  If he does this at a continuous rate of 1 spark per
 second, that would be 1000 Watts of energy delivered/inputted into his
 papper cylinder.

 It seems to me that the piston jump of 6 inches with a light weight
 piston DOES NOT equate to 1000 Watts of power.  This does not look like it
 is overunity.  This appears to be just ordinary thermodynamic expansion of
 the gas due to inputted energy.  Nothing appears to be special here.

 Now, I am willing to be wrong.  I do not have the time nor the
 inclination to watch all his videos from 1 to 11.  I watch 9 and 11
 partially.  In his other videos, did he mention how much the weight of his
 piston is?  If he did, maybe you can calculate the amount of work performed
 on the piston with a 6 inch travel upwards.  This would probably be around
 10%-20% efficiency, which would totally be consistent with a thermodynamic
 expansion cycle of a compressed gas.  Seems to me this is nothing more than
 an internal combustion engine, with the spark providing the raw energy for
 gas expansion.

 Funny, but Papp may have found a clever and magician trick way of
 running an internal combustion engine making it appear to be overunity.
 With the process appearing to work with normal air, and now hydrogen, the
 noble gas mixture may just have been a convenient and effective
 magician's sleight of hand technique to divert attention from his engine
 just being an ordinary Internal Combustion Engine.  Everybody was focusing
 on the novelty of using a certain magic formula of noble gases that
 nobody bothered to check the energy balance.  I believe this is what
 happened.


 Jojo



  - Original Message -
 *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
  *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2012 7:58 AM
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

  Video #11, tends to support my belief that the power, force, and speed
 of gas expansion is inversely proportional to the duration of the spark.
 When the duration of the spark is short, the compressive force of the gas
 grows large. A very short spark is a powerful spark. This powerful spark
 will produce a powerful and forceful expansion of the gas.

 To get gas expansion to the maximum, the duration of the spark must be
 reduced to the minimum duration possible.

 To optimize gas performance, I recommend a spark rise time under 50
 nanoseconds with a very short duration to produce the most powerful
 explosive and forceful expansion of the gas.

 Video #11 shows that a continuous high voltage spark does not cause gas
 expansion, but a short and powerful spark with a very short duration does.

 It is not the energy that the spark carries in joules. It is how fast
 this energy is delivered to the gas.

 This is analogous to how explosives perform.

 Low explosives are compounds where the rate of decomposition proceeds
 through the material at less than the speed of sound. The decomposition is
 propagated by a flame front (deflagration) which travels much more slowly
 through the explosive material than a shock wave of a high explosive.

 High explosives are explosive materials that detonate, meaning that the
 explosive shock front passes through the material at a supersonic speed.

 Some theory

 Because of the Pauli Exclusion Principle, no two electrons can

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-29 Thread Jojo Jaro

I thought so.  But why are you conflating the Russ feedback with Papp's 
original engine?  Did Papp get a feedback similar to Russ' and did he feed that 
to his second cylinder?  Did Papp use hydrogen? which Russ seems to have 
discovered is the gas that causes feedback.  Russ never got his noble gas 
mixture to create feedback that caused his diodes to blow.

I think it would help if people are more careful to not conflate various 
anecdotal evidence.  I'm all for the success and/or reality of the Papp engine, 
but it is not helpful to our credibility if we start playing loose with our 
evidence, especially evidence that is anecdotal.

As for the patent, we don't really know how it was evaluated.  Maybe, the 
examiner got caught up with the noble gas novelty also that he got 
distracted.  You can't really say the patent process is foolproof.  Just peruse 
the hundreds of overunity inventions that were granted patents.


Jojo


  - Original Message - 
  From: Axil Axil 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 1:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update


  I said ...Papp engine self-powered  I was talking about the Papp 
engine. This info is in his patent. This was the reson why the Papp engine 
exploded in the finemen incident when the power to the controls was removed.

  Papp would not have been issued a patent unless the engine worked.




  On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:14 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote:

How did you come to this conclusion?  Have I missed a video that Russ 
powered a second opposing cylinder from the feedback of the first?

Are you referring to some other papper engine built by somebody else?

I think you may be guilty again of conflating anecdotal evidence from 
various videos to come to the wrong conclusion.  But, I would be very much 
happier if I am wrong.  That would only mean we can free ourselves from raghead 
slavery.  So, please correct me.

Jojo



  - Original Message - 
  From: Axil Axil 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 12:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update



  One point about the energy balance that you have not considered is the 
amount of energy contained in the feedback current that Russ is seeing when the 
plasma is relaxing. This current jumped an air gap, blew out all his high 
powered diodes along with his neon light.


  This feedback current was strong enough to power the alternate cylinder 
in a two cylinder configuration making the Papp engine self-powered after the 
initial startup excitation.

  Cheers:Axil



  On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote:

Axil,

Russ delivers 1000 joules of energy per spark with his high voltage and 
huge capacitor banks.  If he does this at a continuous rate of 1 spark per 
second, that would be 1000 Watts of energy delivered/inputted into his papper 
cylinder.

It seems to me that the piston jump of 6 inches with a light weight 
piston DOES NOT equate to 1000 Watts of power.  This does not look like it is 
overunity.  This appears to be just ordinary thermodynamic expansion of the gas 
due to inputted energy.  Nothing appears to be special here.

Now, I am willing to be wrong.  I do not have the time nor the 
inclination to watch all his videos from 1 to 11.  I watch 9 and 11 partially.  
In his other videos, did he mention how much the weight of his piston is?  If 
he did, maybe you can calculate the amount of work performed on the piston with 
a 6 inch travel upwards.  This would probably be around 10%-20% efficiency, 
which would totally be consistent with a thermodynamic expansion cycle of a 
compressed gas.  Seems to me this is nothing more than an internal combustion 
engine, with the spark providing the raw energy for gas expansion.

Funny, but Papp may have found a clever and magician trick way of 
running an internal combustion engine making it appear to be overunity.  With 
the process appearing to work with normal air, and now hydrogen, the noble gas 
mixture may just have been a convenient and effective magician's sleight of 
hand technique to divert attention from his engine just being an ordinary 
Internal Combustion Engine.  Everybody was focusing on the novelty of using a 
certain magic formula of noble gases that nobody bothered to check the energy 
balance.  I believe this is what happened.


Jojo


  - Original Message - 
  From: Axil Axil 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 7:58 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update


  Video #11, tends to support my belief that the power, force, and 
speed of gas expansion is inversely proportional to the duration of the spark. 
When the duration of the spark is short, the compressive force of the gas grows 
large. A very short spark is a powerful

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-21 Thread Axil Axil

Russ has conducted his first attempt at the Papp popper replication of Bob
Rohner. More to come...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=zYNW9gbgySg

Cheers: Axil

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:56 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

Rwg42085 has built a replica of B. Rohner’s popper. Rwg42085 has the all
noble gases and is ready to test this unit. Here is a photo of his work.
You can plainly see the quality of the workmanship the photo displays.

Axil

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26
yr old whiz named Russ.
He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on
Bob's test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas
mixtures.

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-21 Thread Jed Rothwell


It seems like a credible effort.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-21 Thread Jojo Jaro

I like this guy.  I am a strong skeptic of Papp engine technology but this guy 
may have changed my mind.  It's hard to see how he could have faked this.

And, it's refreshing to see someone with such a bold stand for Jesus Christ say 
the Politically Incorrect thing publicly.  This sure proves to the world that 
Christian Believers who believe in God do not Do Science.  Yeah, all Christians 
are dumb and uncreative people who accept everything by faith and do not Do any 
Science or experiments.   LOL..

Go Russ... you have my support and my prayers.




Jojo


  - Original Message - 
  From: Axil Axil 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 2:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update


  Russ has conducted his first attempt at the Papp popper replication of Bob 
Rohner. More to come...



  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=zYNW9gbgySg





   Cheers: Axil




  On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:56 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

Rwg42085 has built a replica of B. Rohner’s popper. Rwg42085 has the all 
noble gases and is ready to test this unit. Here is a photo of his work. You 
can plainly see the quality of the workmanship the photo displays.


Axil



On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com 
wrote:

  Hi Vortex,

  Some updates on Papp development.. Which most of you know is a noble gas 
that is charged (by RF/spark) and drives a piston with an unexplained (?) 
force. Harvesting the force and residual energy to produce overunity power 
remains to be seen.
  
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor



  An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26 
yr old whiz named Russ.
  He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on 
Bob's test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
  I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas 
mixtures. 

  http://rwgresearch.com/ 
  https://www.youtube.com/user/rwg42985?feature=g-user-u
  http://www.open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=659
  Bob is chiming in with feedback, which is great to see. The forum is at 
12 pages and is filled with interesting tidbits. 


  Here is a (self-taught?) Dannel Roberts and his visit to Bob's shop.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=_zWJNyoFgJM
  Starting at 22:40 is Robert's theory of how the Papp engine creates a 
bang... 


  Chuck (a LENR replicator) received his Popper Kit from John. It contains 
15 pages of design/build notes and has a signal generator to drive 2 included 
spark coils. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lFt_q69dxkfeature=plcp  

  Bob Rohner has also produced a few new movies, one warning of the 
potential dangers of building a popper.. another showing the system running 
without a coil, dispelling the thought that the coil could be the source of the 
force, showing that compressed air is not used. 
  http://www.rohnermachine.com/pagedocuments.html
  https://www.youtube.com/user/bjrohner?feature=g-user-u

  All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a 
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed. 

  - Brad

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-21 Thread Axil Axil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kugCCqo5FBElist=UULuDKTNDFfat7iO7KGE7fQAindex=1feature=plcp

Russ shows us the Popper kit he just received from J Rohner.

Cheers:Axil

On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

Russ has conducted his first attempt at the Papp popper replication of Bob
Rohner. More to come...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=zYNW9gbgySg

Cheers: Axil

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:56 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

Axil

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26
yr old whiz named Russ.
He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on
Bob's test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas
mixtures.

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-21 Thread Daniel Rocha

Crystal forms of water, at least metal, at ambient temperature like he
exposes, requires pressures similar, although slightly smaller, than those
of metallic hydrogen:

http://cerncourier.com/cws/article/cern/29713

2012/9/21 Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kugCCqo5FBElist=UULuDKTNDFfat7iO7KGE7fQAindex=1feature=plcp

Russ shows us the Popper kit he just received from J Rohner.

Cheers:Axil

On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

Russ has conducted his first attempt at the Papp popper replication of
Bob Rohner. More to come...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=zYNW9gbgySg

Cheers: Axil

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:56 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

Axil

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

Some updates on Papp development.. Which most of you know is a noble
gas that is charged (by RF/spark) and drives a piston with an unexplained
(?) force. Harvesting the force and residual energy to produce overunity
power remains to be seen.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26
yr old whiz named Russ.
He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on
Bob's test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas
mixtures.

Chuck (a LENR replicator) received his Popper Kit from John. It
contains 15 pages of design/build notes and has a signal generator to drive
2 included spark coils.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lFt_q69dxkfeature=plcp

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-21 Thread Daniel Rocha

Note, this doesn't mean I believe their claim.

2012/9/21 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com

Crystal forms of water, at least metal, at ambient temperature like he
exposes, requires pressures similar, although slightly smaller, than those
of metallic hydrogen:

http://cerncourier.com/cws/article/cern/29713

2012/9/21 Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kugCCqo5FBElist=UULuDKTNDFfat7iO7KGE7fQAindex=1feature=plcp

Russ shows us the Popper kit he just received from J Rohner.

Cheers:Axil

On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

Russ has conducted his first attempt at the Papp popper replication of
Bob Rohner. More to come...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=zYNW9gbgySg

Cheers: Axil

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:56 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

Rwg42085 has built a replica of B. Rohner’s popper. Rwg42085 has the
all noble gases and is ready to test this unit. Here is a photo of his
work. You can plainly see the quality of the workmanship the photo
displays.

Axil

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:46 AM, ecat builder
ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote:

Hi Vortex,

Some updates on Papp development.. Which most of you know is a noble
gas that is charged (by RF/spark) and drives a piston with an unexplained
(?) force. Harvesting the force and residual energy to produce overunity
power remains to be seen.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a
26 yr old whiz named Russ.
He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on
Bob's test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas
mixtures.

http://rwgresearch.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/rwg42985?feature=g-user-u
http://www.open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=659
Bob is chiming in with feedback, which is great to see. The forum is
at 12 pages and is filled with interesting tidbits.

Chuck (a LENR replicator) received his Popper Kit from John. It
contains 15 pages of design/build notes and has a signal generator to
drive
2 included spark coils.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lFt_q69dxkfeature=plcp

Bob Rohner has also produced a few new movies, one warning of the
potential dangers of building a popper.. another showing the system
running
without a coil, dispelling the thought that the coil could be the source
of
the force, showing that compressed air is not used.
http://www.rohnermachine.com/pagedocuments.html
https://www.youtube.com/user/bjrohner?feature=g-user-u

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so
a lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-21 Thread James Bowery

Has anyone tried applying Krytron techniques to get the rise time smaller
while increasing the efficiency? Yeah, I know... WMD, DHS, etc. The
problem is when we get into these high energy fast pulse systems, there is
little you can do but step on some toes.

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 9:46 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Vortex,

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a
lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

[Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-14 Thread ecat builder

Hi Vortex,

Some updates on Papp development.. Which most of you know is a noble gas
that is charged (by RF/spark) and drives a piston with an unexplained (?)
force. Harvesting the force and residual energy to produce overunity power
remains to be seen.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Expansion_Motor



An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being built by a 26 yr
old whiz named Russ.
He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder based on Bob's
test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test noble gas
mixtures.

http://rwgresearch.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/rwg42985?feature=g-user-u
http://www.open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=659
Bob is chiming in with feedback, which is great to see. The forum is at 12
pages and is filled with interesting tidbits.


Here is a (self-taught?) Dannel Roberts and his visit to Bob's shop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=_zWJNyoFgJM
Starting at 22:40 is Robert's theory of how the Papp engine creates a
bang...


Chuck (a LENR replicator) received his Popper Kit from John. It contains 15
pages of design/build notes and has a signal generator to drive 2 included
spark coils. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lFt_q69dxkfeature=plcp

Bob Rohner has also produced a few new movies, one warning of the potential
dangers of building a popper.. another showing the system running without a
coil, dispelling the thought that the coil could be the source of the
force, showing that compressed air is not used.
http://www.rohnermachine.com/pagedocuments.html
https://www.youtube.com/user/bjrohner?feature=g-user-u

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300 joules?) so a lot
of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed.

- Brad

RE: [Vo]:Open Source Papp Update

2012-09-14 Thread Jones Beene

Thanks Brad,

A deluxe popper, indeed ! Even if the open-source part is in doubt, the need
for a miracle is not.

It will be interesting to see the energy balance, in the end. I hope that
Russ will strive to provide that, even if a rough estimate. Otherwise this
device may linger in the collective imagination for another half century.

One thing for sure - the visuals in the videos are a throwback to 1971, in
more way than one. The hat must be his borrowed trademark, since it seems to
be worn in all of them.

Terry will remember the done: Popeye Doyle and the porkpie hat he made
famous in the French Connection. Say, didn't Gene Hackman look almost as old
back then as he does now? Is that the inverse of 'ageless'? 

... begging the question: is there some kind of weird synchronicity between
the Popper, Popeye, and Papp (which Josef himself pronounced as pop) ?...
or... that 1971 was shortly after Josef Papp arrived in Canada, aboard a 300
mph submarine:

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papp.html

Say... is it me or do these strange time-warps have anything to do with the
Bak'tun-13 rollover ?


From: ecat builder 


Hi Vortex,

Some updates on Papp development.. Which most of you know is
a noble gas that is charged (by RF/spark) and drives a piston with an
unexplained (?) force. Harvesting the force and residual energy to produce
overunity power remains to be seen.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Plasma_Energy_Controls_Plasma_Ex
pansion_Motor



An open source Papp Engine based on Bob's design is being
built by a 26 yr old whiz named Russ.
He has made great progress in just a few weeks-- a cylinder
based on Bob's test unit, spark generator, gas system, and more.
I'm sure he'll be looking for ideas on how to mix and test
noble gas mixtures. 

http://rwgresearch.com/ 
https://www.youtube.com/user/rwg42985?feature=g-user-u

http://www.open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=659
Bob is chiming in with feedback, which is great to see. The
forum is at 12 pages and is filled with interesting tidbits. 


Here is a (self-taught?) Dannel Roberts and his visit to
Bob's shop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=_zWJNyoFgJM
Starting at 22:40 is Robert's theory of how the Papp engine
creates a bang... 


Chuck (a LENR replicator) received his Popper Kit from John.
It contains 15 pages of design/build notes and has a signal generator to
drive 2 included spark coils.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lFt_q69dxkfeature=plcp  

Bob Rohner has also produced a few new movies, one warning
of the potential dangers of building a popper.. another showing the system
running without a coil, dispelling the thought that the coil could be the
source of the force, showing that compressed air is not used. 
http://www.rohnermachine.com/pagedocuments.html
https://www.youtube.com/user/bjrohner?feature=g-user-u

All very interesting, but a lot of power is going in (300
joules?) so a lot of work, luck, and miracles may still be needed. 

- Brad

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