I have to do this. Could be a good xmas
entertainment for example. :)
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**
but has
the same API as the old one, to ship with some future version of Zope,
say 2.12.
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ExtendedPathIndex doesn't need fixing, but we need to stop using it.
It's done to support navigation trees from the catalog, but navigation
should not be done via the same catalog as you do other things, but a
dedicated tool. That would simplify and speed things up a lot. But O
On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 22:29, Matt Hamilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lennart Regebro gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I would be interested in seeing a bunch of Gurus sit down at some
>> sprint and trying to come up with a catalog engine that is incremental
>> and use
a not-for-profit
> organisation that provides support for the Zope community and the Zope
> platform and its associated software. Its community includes the open source
> community of contributers as well as the community of businesses and
> organizations that use Zope.
> _
mpossibilities" so we can think of a path to fix that.
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** No
upgrade without me
being explicit about it.
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ybe that's the plan anyhow?
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ailman/listinfo/zope-dev
> ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! **
> (Related lists -
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
>
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ly able to go to PyCon
certain days, say so here, so we'll know when we can get the most
participants.
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Well, by now we definitely have enough people to have a fruitful
discussion, so I feel happy to say that it definitely will happen.
I created a PyCon wikipage if people want to add anything, with the
suggested title "State of Zope", I hope that title is OK.
http://us.pycon.org/2009/openspace/Stat
India is big enough in itself. :)
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On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 14:09, Baiju M wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 13:32, Baiju M wrote:
>>> Is there any plan for Zope sprint ?
>>
>> Nothing official yet, but I'm sure there will be sprinting d
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 15:46, Lennart Regebro wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 14:09, Baiju M wrote:
>> It looks like this time there are few formalities to arrange a sprint:
>> http://us.pycon.org/2009/sprints/call-for-projects/
>
> Ah, OK. I'll set up a Zope Sprint
he same room, or in rooms closely together, I think the sprints
are in the same place as last year.
We should talk to Jacob Kaplan-Moss about that.
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://us.pycon.org/2009/sprints/projects/zope/
For general information on the sprints, see:
http://us.pycon.org/2009/sprints/
or ask me.
Help out / Learn / Have fun!
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s what you intend to create?
A similar site should be created for Zope 3, and then we should trash
the current Zope org for a new frontpage that basically only points to
the different microsites.
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ht
rly had enough content for a ZODB
> microsite thanks to Christian Theune and a few others.
If there is one page, then that's enough. Hence, there should have
been a zodb.zope.org by now.
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http://reg
org DNS record and pointing it at that Zope site.
- pasting in the content.
- giving zodb people manager access to the plone site.
I can not technically do any of that, as I don't have a server to put
it on, no access to the Zope.org dns and no content. The rest I can
do. :)
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2 is a libertarian meritodemocracy.
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On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 11:37, Lennart Regebro wrote:
> With the revolutionary eggification of the masses that is underway the
> dictatorship has ended. Zope 2.12 is a libertarian meritodemocracy.
Well, at least if you have svn access. :)
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o whatever he wants (after the
foundation has taken a backup of everything) and see what happens. :)
I'm also lazy, which are the reasons I haven't volunteered for the
role of Web Tsar already, as being bad at getting people to work for
free would mean I have to do everything myself
his is absolutely true. I'll put up "Zope.org" as a possible
discussion item for the OpenSpace, maybe somebody has some bright
idea.
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, so zope.location
>>> would be split into zope.location and zope.locationspec.
>>
>> what about zope.ilocation?
>
> Maybe. I'd lean toward "zope.locationspec" because it would appear
> right after zope.location in a sorted list, making it more
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 14:33, Baiju M wrote:
> Hi,
> I wonder whether new development patterns
> are going to emerge after this :)
>
> https://bespin.mozilla.com/
It is definitely something that can replace the Zope 2 TTW pattern
with a Zope3 "TTW" pattern.
--
Le
curitypolicy, though I don't really know
> how that would work yet.
>
> What do you think? Could we put this in as a bugfix?
+1
This has annoyed me too, the subscriber seems like a neat solution.
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ces.
I haven't tried. Anyway, it was just an idea.
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** No cro
nd talk loudly an wave their
arms around and then go out for beer. Works lurlvely! No steering
committee needed. If we still want more structure, we'll get somebody
to force us to stick colored dots on big papers on the walls. That
whole thing was awesome.
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On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 00:05, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> Lennart Regebro wrote:
>> - A steering group for the framework? Euhm? I don't know. I think
>> release managers are needed, and I think a steering group is going to
>> grow out of the community.
y for that.
Note: A person. Not a committee. A committee means a bunch of people
are responsible, which is the same thing as saying that nobody is.
Yeah, yeah , I know. My answer is all peace and love and fluffy
kittens and everybody does whatever they want, but
almost everybody that has been involved in this discussion.
> I'm talking about a group of people who act as if they're responsible,
> not your mythical committee. We should be able to find a bunch of people
> with a sense of responsibility, right?
Yes. But I don'
will be, and then we'll have to rethink. But currently the people
involved, and the people that need to be "steered" are so few we can
fit them all into one room at a time. And then I do not see why would
would need a steering group.
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On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 08:42, Christian Theune wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-03-03 at 08:35 +0100, Lennart Regebro wrote:
>> 1. Areas that need somebody responsible should get one. We need
>> somebody to bug people about bugs in the bug tracker. That should be
>> one person, for exam
ng group should not have backroom discussions. They should
> act as open as possible. I think of it as a catalyst.
The operative here is *should*. Compare that to *will*. These are
different words. What the steering group *should* do and what they
*will* do is not the same thing.
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that a
steering group is as little as possible. If it turns out to be
necessary, we add it then.
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On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 12:53, Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
> My impression (from an external perspective) is that Zope Corporation did just
> that for Zope 2/3, but nowadays tries to give this role to the community.
No, I don't think we ever tried that. I think we should.
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ignificant risk that
is ends up hindering them.
"I thought I could organize freedom. How Scandinavian of me" --Björk: Hunter.
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On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 13:33, Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
> Hmmm, I have the slight feeling that your opinions are not that far away.
Of course not. This is, as aways, just a question of loudly agreeing.
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+33
n). We could amend such a process with a strategic planning
> summit construction, later.
Such a day to day group sounds like me as the same thing as a release
team, and if so, me and Martijn, as usually, agree comepletely. :)
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gs. :)
I do think that this, together with day-to-day release teams is a good
working solution we should try for Zope too.
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ter if each framework could pick and choose whatever
> components and versions it actually needed?
It can. These are not mutually exclusive. A central KGS for the core
framework does not exclude you making your own KGS, neither does it
mean you can't release each module separately.
> Co
> When components are not treated as one giant pile, and it's expected that you
> should be able to use pieces of the pile selectively without buying in to some
> unrelated software, dependency management becomes far more brutal and
> realistic.
Yes. And I still do not see how
programmer will only be attracted by some "big
> picture" but probably not by a collection of some subpackages.
>
> So, my impression is that there is a need for some steering group, that will,
> however, encourage people to form groups around packages and maintai
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:56, Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
> Am Mittwoch 04 März 2009 10:25:19 schrieb Lennart Regebro:
>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:04, Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
>> > What I don't see in your proposal is, how these subset-groups would be
>> >
;t
see that it should be any time soon. What Hermann suggested is
somebody that keeps track of all Zope software modules and tells him
which is good and which is bad. That's not what you suggested, and as
mention, I don't think it's even possible, and definitely not a good
idea.
-
ew
dictator. But I don't think that's needed, because the technical
disagreements we have here are so minor, and seems mostly based in
massinderstindung.
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a single answer that is
> recorded.
And implement it?
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on Grok or Repoze.bfg are likely to continue to do so for
quite some time, and they need a separate release. I don't think The
Zope 3 app server is likely to die any more than the Zope 2 app
server.
Now, in five years, maybe. But then again, by then we could all have
suffered an alien
uch shorter time. Say, between
releases of the framework? Or we could simply not deprecate, but
encourage backwards compatibilities, at least until a new major
version is released of the framework?
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http
t this deprecation warning is pointless. The parameter can
just stay there and be ignored, no need to warn. But the description
of the change is incorrect, the decision to ignore the parameter was
for reason, not just because we could, even if I don't exactly
remember what the reason was now
lling the parameter *didn't* know the value. Five
I think. Ah well)
> Thus, it was good to get rid of it -- just the deprecation warning
> was silly: instead, a value different from the only correct one should
> have resulted in an exception.
True.
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. So, it's stored on the function, not the class. Hence, it will not collide.
Might be confusing though.
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http:
_whatever isn't magic enough, so
unless we can think of something better... :)
The it's the question if we want to start moving before going over to
Python 3 or after.
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_
I'm leaving soon, arriving this afternoon, staying at Crowne Plaza. I
may be up for a drink this evening, or I may be sleeping, not sure. :)
The Zope Open Space I'd prefer Friday or Sunday. Any opinion on that?
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2009/4/1 Marius Gedminas :
> I now also wonder if adapter()/implementer() would work when called with
> classes rather than functions...?
Yes, in 2.6 and 3.0. Not with the current trunk of zope.interfaces,
though, but in the future, sure.
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support both <=2.5 and >=2.6.
2.5 doesn't support class decorators, so no.
But the plan is that both implements(IFoo) and @implementor(IFoo) will
be available under 2.6.
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him in the face.
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(Rel
On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 08:32, Dieter Maurer wrote:
> Because members put there content (product implementations) still usable?
Absolutely right. In the long run that should probably be moved over
to PyPI though.
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ifying it and
moving it to PyPI isn't that much work.
The alternative is to make a new products directory on zope.org, which
is of course completely possible.
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then to https:// would. But switching to relative
URLs would also solve them problem.
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On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 10:16, Chris Withers wrote:
> Lennart Regebro wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 17:23, Tres Seaver wrote:
>>>
>>> PyPI won't work for non-eggified products.
>>
>> Right, so they need to be eggified then, which is a Goo
as always that those who want
to keep it get to be responsible for maintaining it. Problem solved.
:)
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http
asy_install/buildout/etc just fail in those cases? Typically
with a "no setup.py found" or something?
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o using repoze by
default. BFG already does so, of course, and Plone 4 is set to do so.
Hopefully by Zope 2.13, the old publisher can be a horrid memory, and
repoze.Zope2 be default.
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it's more than just libraries, they
fit together, and it's also a development style with the component
architecture et al.
> "Framework" to many Python web people implies a runnable application
> server (the terms got conflated when Pylons and Django started calling
>
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:21, Chris Withers wrote:
> Lennart Regebro wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 10:14, Chris Withers
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> PyPI will work in exactly the same way as zope.org for non-eggified
>>> products: manual downloa
far as appservers go.
So neither Grok nor BFG exist? :-) I don't know how you are thinking here.
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ht
Zope Toolkit is a good name. But so is Zope Framework. And honestly,
it's more a framework than a toolkit. A toolkit is a collection of
reasonably independent tools. OK, so Zope Framework is actually loads
of frameworks, one for components, one for security one for web forms,
and this and that. But
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 23:07, Chris Rossi wrote:
> I can't believe no one's suggested Zope Mega, yet.
It sounds stupid.
The Zope Ultra Component Framework Toolkit, though, THAT's a name with panache!
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On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 01:36, Shane Hathaway wrote:
> Grr. Way to end a bikeshed discussion. Now what are we going to drone
> on about?
Wait, wait, it should be called Zope Platform!
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+33 661 58
On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 09:23, Dieter Maurer wrote:
> I will continue to speak of Zope 2 (not Zope Classic).
Right. The classic/legacy renaming is only necessary if we were to
move to Zope 4, which we aren't, or continue to talk about Zope 3,
which we aren't.
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as eggyfied.
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(Related lis
to wait for update, just like you did before
>> it was eggyfied.
>
> No, before I could always stick a new version manually in lib/python of my
> instance.
Why would you not be able to do that now?
I evidently don't understand the problem.
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ly are more than you, but they have been
silent in teh discussions, and it's important that your viewpoint
isn't lost.
I'm also happy you seem to have gotten good answers on how to go forward.
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gly well suited to fix bugs, as you are one of the Zope
people who knows Zope 2 inside out. If you need new releases, there is
no reason why there shouldn't be new relesases.
In short, I'm not sure what you are worried about.
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On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 12:31, Martin Aspeli wrote:
> Thoughts?
I haven't had my dead deeep down in the Zope 2 security for three
years, so I'm a bit fuzzy on how it works, but all this sounds like a
good step forward.
+1
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On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 08:56, Dieter Maurer wrote:
> Lennart Regebro wrote at 2009-4-11 16:12 +0200:
>> ...
>>Does easy_install keep track of already installed dependencies and
>>refuse to install it if it break dependencies?
>
> "easy_install" checks d
On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 17:26, Lennart Regebro wrote:
> No, you just said above we were in the "yes" case.
No you didn't. My bad. We are in the no case.
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pe, some upgrade pain is expected. Maybe you have been
spoiled by Python and Zope 2 not having much upgrade pain before, bit
I honestly don't think it's a good sign for a framework to be so
stagnant that three years of development doesn't break somethings.
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uys, you just chose the wrong technology."
See, this is the naming problem. You did not chose the wrong
technology. You didn't even chose the wrong app server, because there
wasn't any choice. Now there is: Zope 3, Grok & BFG. All using the
same technology. So far you are one of th
still causing
confusion.
Stephan Richter has says he is willing to maintain Zope 3, whatever he
means with that. :-) I think that's great. But I think it would be a
good thing if it is renamed. To what should reasonably be up to
Stephan.
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er, otherwise no.
If so you may want to help with the zope.pipeline proposal that
probably will end up creating a publisher that is more
zope.app.publication-like, but more modular and modern. That should
not be a big pain.
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and Zope 2.
7. Technologies that you use when you develop with the packages in 5 and 6.
I propose that the name Zope 3 applies *only* to 1 and 2. If future
versions of 1 or 2 gets released without the ZMI (as discussed in
other threads), then of course 1, 2 and 3 is the same.
Opinions?
--
Lennart
gets dropped now. :) Just change the
docs. 2.5 has been out for two and a half years, I see no reason to
have 2.4 support.
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own KGS which is significantly smaller than the Zope 3 KGS,
and not useable as an app server by itself. I would like to see a
renaming of the Zope 3 KGS, but not to Zope Toolkit, as it's a subset.
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way. People seem to understand it. It's in this
situation possible that it's better with a false story that people
understand than a correct story that just adds to the confusion.
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_
the Zope 2/3 Application Servers are no
> longer recommended.
This makes sense.
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rok, BFG and Plone.
I think this is a good plan.
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** No cross p
sake, I think it's
important that we are aware and honest about it.
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On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 18:00, Jim Fulton wrote:
> I think it is clear that you are disregarding many people's opinions.
What opinions have been disregarded, more exactly?
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Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
http://regebro.wordpress.com/
+33 661
tween Zope 3 and the Zope Toolkit. This way
we do not have to continue to talk about Zope 3. This way we don't
have to say that Zope 3 is dead. This way we don't have to say that
Zope 3 is renamed Zope Toolkit with bits left out. And it is correct,
accurate and clear.
I have still t
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 19:03, Simon Michael wrote:
> Um.. people will laugh at us ?
No, *with* us. Big difference. :)
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Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
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the releases, but I thought I would just do this
last pleading for getting us out of the branding swamp we are in.
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Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
http://regebro.wordpress.com/
+33 661 58 14 64
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ue rest for a couple of months.
I will then buy him and the rest of the Foundation Board drinks until
they do what I say and make a pronunciation on the naming issue
according to my suggestions. :-D
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Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
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On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 18:42, Shane Hathaway wrote:
> It occurred to me that one simple test of a Zope naming scheme is to
> consider what employers will write in job descriptions.
That's a bloody good point.
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Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
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.)
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Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
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ven't run one single Zope project for at least 3-4 years that
doesn't start up with screens of deprecation messages. It might be
ugly, but it isn't really a significant problem.
So I'll +2 my cents to Andreas 2 cents. :-)
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Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
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I also see no reason to hold up 2.12 waiting for something
>> which has no defined end point.
> I strongly object inflationary Zope 2 releases.
Well, this isn't inflationary, is it? 2.12 is eggified. That deserves
a new version number.
If we then after that sta
no longer supports Python
2.4. And you are not expected to use Zope Toolkit with Zope 2.10, as
Zope 2.10 uses Zope 3.3 rather than Zope Toolkit.
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because
later versions do so.
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Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
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