--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <billsm...@...> wrote:
> Dave,
> From your post below I get the impression that you expect zen will somehow
> help you cope with OCD.  It might, but I don't think you should expect zen
> practitioners, especially those you meet on a forum such as this one, to
> have any skills in helping you cope with OCD.
> The remarks you relate below would be normal responses from zen students -
> if you're worried about something, the solution is not just to try to 'fix'
> the problem, but not to WORRY  about the problem - just deal with it.  When
> someone said OCD is an illusion, they were correct from a zen point-of-view,
> but from a zen point-of-view most all concepts - such as OCD - are illusory.
> This doesn't mean you aren't really suffering the symptoms of what Western
> medicine calls OCD, but this statement was an overly terse way to re-state
> Buddhism 101 that all suffering is caused by attachment, and the solution to
> suffering is to let go of the attachments.  This is of course especially
> hard for those suffering from OCD because their sense of attachment is
> magnified a thousand-fold.
What disturbed me about this is that the person was not even willing to 
consider that my OCD had a medical cause. The quote was something like "if the 
illusion that your OCD is caused by a chemical imbalance helps, then go with 
it." I found that very insensitive.

> Zen is not a cure-all.  It won't cure diseases such as cancer, but
> practicing zen can help you cope with cancer.  Maybe practicing zen will
> help you cope with OCD.  I really don't know, but I believe it's worth a
> try.  The whole focus of zen is 'letting go' - letting go of your
> attachments, and even your sense of 'self'.  I would expect it would also be
> helpful in assisting you 'let go' of some of the objects of OCD - or at
> least softening their hold on you.

The main problem with OCD is not being able to handle uncertainty. People with 
OCD lack something that other people have that allows them to live with doubt. 
Since Zen has to deal with uncertainty, I thought it might help in that regard. 
I'm not looking for any goal, I know that's not the point of Zen. But I don't 
think it can hurt.

> For what it's worth.Bill!
> From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of DP
> Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 8:53 PM
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Namaste- first message
> Well, this is what I meant by linguistic tricks. I was on another forum in
> which I was talking about how my OCD was related to my fear of death. I had
> two different reactions - one along the lines of "why worry about death?"
> (telling someone with OCD not to worry or why worry is exactly the wrong
> thing to do) the other was that I had to admit that my OCD was an illusion.
> This last one really bothered me, and the poster went further on to say that
> "disease = dis ease," which I thought was trite and not very helpful. I soon
> gave up on that forum.
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> <BillSmart@> wrote:
> >
> > Dave,
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > My comments are embedded in your post below:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> > Of DP
> > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:36 PM
> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Namaste- first message
> > 
> > I have been doing zazen for awhile now, but I've gone weeks and months at
> a
> > time without doing it... getting up and doing it regularly is very
> difficult
> > for me.
> > 
> > [Bill!] Difficulty is a good thing - a teaching thing.
> > 
> > I like to consider myself, in the words of Evelyn Underhill, a "practical
> > mystic." I find koans sometimes useful, but I find that I am also drawn to
> > the ideas of Thich Nhat Hanh, of imbuing everything with purpose (of
> course,
> > this can be hard with OCD, in which every action seems to have hidden
> > consequences).
> > 
> > [Bill!] I would think that anyone with OCD would not find it difficult at
> > all to 'imbue everything with purpose'. That's what OCD means, doesn't it?
> > Zen is the opposite of that. Zen has no purpose, no goal. Zen is Just
> > THIS!
> > 
> > I'm a little turned off by some of what I find obfuscating in some zen
> > messages, the people who hide behind linguistic tricks. Is that a little
> too
> > cynical? Am I asking too many questions? :)
> > 
> > [Bill!] What I think you see as 'linguistic tricks' in zen are probably
> just
> > the results of frustration at trying to communicate non-dualistic
> > experiences using language which is based on dualisms. That, or an attempt
> > at using language in a non-ordinary way (like koans, which you said you
> find
> > 'useful' sometimes) to help induce a break in dualistic thinking.
> > 
> > .Bill!
> >
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