Re: [PNEWS-L] Jewish Genes
Jews are not a race but the Arabs are antisemitic, anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, anti-atheist warmongers who would destroy the Jews AND YOU if they didn't fight back - which is what they have been doing since the Arabs were granted statehood in the Middle-East in their almost two dozen countries which were established for their ruling elites by the West, since the overthrow of the Ottoman Empire. Hank On Thu, 5 Jul 2007, Amy Hendrickson wrote: Whoever is interested in genetic pathways is welcome to their interest, but the place where it becomes difficult is when genetics is used to claim special priviledge: ie Israel-- When genetics determines whether or not people can move to Israel, or whether you are a first class or second class citizen within that state, we call it RACISM. Surely we should be at the point in our development as a species that we have gotten past the claims of racial priviledge. We should acknowledge that all people have equal rights and not support apartheid in any form. - Original Message - From: adar To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 1:38 PM Subject: [PNEWS-L] Jewish Genes Jewish Genes http://www.pnews.org/images/genes.gif The studies come in the wake of the recent completion of the mapping of the human genome. So much more knowledge is discoverable now since we can read the genetic blueprint and correlate it with some heretofore assumptions which turn out not to be entirely correct. What is evident from these studies is that traditional assumptions are not correct assumptions Jews, Genes and Lost Tribe Hillel Halkin wrote a fascinating essay on the genetic makup of the Jewish people, which was published in Commentary, (Wandering Jews-And Their Genes Volume: 110. Issue: 2. September 2000). In it, he analyzes several recent genetic studies. I'll just touch on some of it but for a more complete analysis I recommend that you read Halkin's articles and others about genes and Jews. The studies come in the wake of the recent completion of the mapping of the human genome. So much more knowledge is discoverable now since we can read the genetic blueprint and correlate it with some heretofore assumptions which turn out not to be entirely correct. One study attempted to trace the lineage of the kohanim (Eng: priests) - a title and class in Jewish tradition where those who were direct male descendants of Moses and Aaron were given responsibility and obligations to conduct important Jewish rites. What it showed in the study released in 1997 was a high correlation of the distinct priestly Y chromosome in those claiming to be Kohanim (usually with identifying family names like Cohen, Kohn, Kohen, Cohn, etc.) higher than with those who claimed to be Kohanim than those who did not. The study was conducted by scientists from the U of Arizona, Haifa Technion and genetic anthropology department at University College, London. It found that only 3-5% of all male Jews have the kohen-specific Y-chromosome haplotypes or DNA markers, and were accurate to more than 50% for those who identified as Kohanim. Another project which was fascinating was the study and research by a London-Oxford University research team who looked at a black, Bantu-speaking African tribe in South Africa and Zimbabwe, which are called Lemba While today they are for the most part Christian, they have an oral tradition which maintains Jewish practices, i.e. circumcision, ritual slaughter, not eating pork, etc. and they claim to be descendants of the Jews. Those claims have never been taken seriously by most academics who studied them but now there was a test. for at least Jewish priestly genes and the results were absolutely astounding. For the 9 percent of the Lemba tribe who were tested, there were 2 to 3 times more Kohenite Y chromosomes (sometimes even higher) held by Lemba than that held by OTHER Jewish populations. The Lemba were more priestly that is than known Jews who were tested. And the study, it seems, would also establish that these black Africans were of Jewish ancestry. Another study which was presented at proceedings of the National Academy of Science from an international collaboration of scientists which was led by Michael Hammer of the University of Arizona and Batsheva Bonne-Tamir of Tel Aviv University studied the more general Jewish profile of Y chromosomes, instead of emphasizing the chromosomal link to Kohanim. Based on genetic samples from seven Jewish population groups, which included: Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian (including 16 non-Jewish groups and including the Lemba). Here are their conclusions: With the exception of the Ethiopian Jews, ALL Jewish samples from the study show a high genetic Jewish Y-chromosome correlation. It demonstrated that Jewish males
Re: [PNEWS-L] How to End ''Islamophobia''
The way to stop is to stop killing each other. When they learn that, they may then learn to live with others. But not while they teach each other hate and issue their Fatwas and conduct their Jihads. Hank On Thu, 5 Jul 2007, Sumerian.. wrote: September 11 was created by Rumsfeld / Cheney. We can't change Islam to suit the sick mind of Bush. He is a war criminal and a weapon industries salesman than a president. Real threat of Islam is its alternative Financial system that may abolish the banking system that runs the world as slaves. You have to know that American and English Administrations are the main supporters of extremists and crazy people in the Muslim world, to demonstrate a deformed Muslim reputation. Black water kills Iraqis in Baghdad, and blame Iraqis for it. S1000+ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How to End ''Islamophobia'' Tawfik Hamid Islamic organizations regularly accuse non-Muslims of Islamophobia, a fear and disdain for everything Islamic. On May 17, this accusation bubbled up again as foreign ministers from the Organization of the Islamic Conference called Islamophobia the worst form of terrorism. These ministers also warned, according to the Arab News, that this form of discrimination would cause millions of Muslims in Western countries, many of whom were already underprivileged, to be further alienated. In America, perhaps the most conspicuous organization to persistently accuse opponents of Islamophobia is the Council of American Islamic Relations. CAIR has taken up the legal case of the Flying Imams, the six individuals who were pulled from a US Airways flight in Minneapolis this past November after engaging in suspicious behavior before takeoff. Not long ago, CAIR filed a John Doe lawsuit that would have made passengers liable for malicious complaints about suspicious Muslim passengers. In an interview at the time, CAIR spokesman Nihad Awad accused Rep. Peter King (R., N.Y.) of being an extremist who encourages Islamophobia for pointing out what most people would think is obvious, that such a lawsuit would have a chilling effect on passengers who witnessed alarming activity and wished to report it. We can only assume that Mr. Awad believes flyers should passively remain in a state of fear as they travel and submissively risk their lives. In this case, Congress is acting appropriately and considering passing a law sponsored by Mr. King that would grant passengers immunity from such lawsuits. It may seem bizarre, but Islamic reformers are not immune to the charge of Islamophobia either. For 20 years, I have preached a reformed interpretation of Islam that teaches peace and respects human rights. I have consistently spoken out - with dozens of other Muslim and Arab reformers - against the mistreatment of women, gays and religious minorities in the Islamic world. We have pointed out the violent teachings of Salafism and the imperative of Westerners to protect themselves against it. Yet according to CAIR's Michigan spokeswoman, Zeinab Chami, I am the latest weapon in the Islamophobe arsenal. If standing against the violent edicts of Shariah law is Islamophobic, then I will treat her accusation as a badge of honor. Muslims must ask what prompts this phobia in the first place. When we in the West examine the worldwide atrocities perpetrated daily in the name of Islam, it is vital to question if we--Muslims--should lay the blame on others for Islamophobia or if we should first look hard at ourselves. According to a recent Pew Global Attitudes survey, younger Muslims in the U.S. are much more likely than older Muslim Americans to say that suicide bombing in the defense of Islam can be at least sometimes justified. About one out of every four American Muslims under 30 think suicide bombing in defense of Islam is justified in at least some circumstances. Twenty-eight percent believe that Muslims did not carry out the 9/11 attacks and 32% declined to answer that question. While the survey has been represented in the media as proof of moderation among American Muslims, the actual results should yield the opposite conclusion. If, as the Pew study estimates, there are 2.35 million Muslims in America, that means there are a substantial number of people in the U.S. who think suicide bombing is sometimes justified. Similarly, if 5% of American Muslims support al Qaeda, that's more than 100,000 people. To bring an end to Islamophobia, we must employ a holistic approach that treats the core of the disease. It will not suffice to merely suppress the symptoms. It is imperative to adopt new Islamic teachings that do not allow killing apostates (Redda Law). Islamic authorities must provide mainstream Islamic books that forbid polygamy and beating women. Accepted Islamic doctrine should take a strong stand against slavery and the raping of female war
Re: [PNEWS-L] Re: Palestinian right of return
Their demand for human rights is worthy but Arab leaders won't give them human rights. The only country in the region where there are equal rights and human rights is in Israel. Public opinion is swayed by propaganda and prejudice. Never-mind that it is also entirely false. If Truth Really Mattered, Israel Would Always Win Hands Down There is an all pervasive, ubiquitous propaganda war on the Internet. Truth doesn't matter. If it did, Israel would win hands down, but the Arabs have figured that out and they bombard the InterNUT with determined precision, and like a virus, their fabrications infect every mailing list and newsgroup and websites, both left and right -- with their lies and messages of hate. If truth really mattered, http://pnews.org/news/index.php/IfTruthMattered Hank Roth On Thu, 5 Jul 2007, Amy Hendrickson wrote: Here's the bottom line: how come the Palestinians don't get equal human rights? Why is it ok for Palestinians to be sitting in refugee camps 50 years after they were ethnic cleansed out of their homeland? Why is it ok for Israel to ignore UN resolutions, and Geneva conventions on the treatment of people in occupied territories? Why is it ok for Israel to have more than 9000 Palestinians in prison right now, many not even charged with a crime? How long can this go on? There is no excuse for this and any amount of blather about history, genetics, or other justification doesn't take away the fact that the Zionists have made live very miserable for the Palestinians. Israel is not a democracy because it doesn't represent all its citizens. It is a Jewish State, self proclaimed. How great a situation is that for the Palestinians? Azmi Bishari, former Knesset member calls for A State for All Its Citizens -- How can this be too much to ask? I'd suggest a democratic state for the whole area of historic Palestine, with equal rights for all. This would be the best settlement for the problem and would leave all parties in a better situation. If the Israeli government doesn't want equality for all its citizens it had better not come begging to the US to have our taxpayers support their Apartheid State-- Right now the US gives Israel several $billion a year, some of which is required to be spent on US defense contractors. The US also lends many more billions without expecting to be repaid. How can we, who value equality and democracy, continue supporting Israel? Oh, yeah, the Right of Return-- Of course, every other refugee population is guaranteed by the UN that they should be able to return to their home country. But not the Palestinians. Why is this logical? How is it defensible? We've let this situation fester for years, and it is an abomination! peace, Amy peace, Amy - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 3:02 PM Subject: [PNEWS-L] Re: Palestinian right of return It is not emotional to tell the truth about history. Some arabs want to rewrite history. But the truth historically is that when the Ancient Romans invaded Judea they renamed it Palestine. It was the Roman way...when the ancient Romans invaded Dacia in eastern Europe, they renamed it Romania. My Dad's parents were born in Romania. They emigrated to the United States and taught me history of that area. I thank God that they came to America before the Holocaust. When Israel was reborn in 1948, some arabs started calling themselves Palestinians. What a hoax! I like to repeat another historical fact. The late Yasser Arafat wss born in Cairo, Egypt..He's the man that never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. He signed agreements and then broke them...and he embezzled arab money. AM YISRAEL CHAI! ~Lainie~ ~*Lainie~*The StarGazer*~ My Astronomy Website: http://community.webtv.net/LAINIE121/doc -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release Date: 7/4/2007 1:40 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [PNEWS-L] Where the Facts Lead Us
Religion is about things. Islam is a religion not unlike the others which seeks bounty and finds adherents to it's religion for a promise of the THINGS they take from others. There is a long history of this kind of thing and it is not about to stop. Yes, they want what other have. Hank On Thu, 5 Jul 2007, Jude G wrote: Are you really so arrogant as to think anyone loves us for our things? Please get real, no one else would have our obesity and sloth nor would they love us for it either. Jude _ From: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of adar Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 1:13 PM To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: [PNEWS-L] Where the Facts Lead Us Islam loves us for our things - they do not like us for our ideas. The left is wedded to political correctness. They don't want to blame the religion of Islam for the 19 hijackers who flew planes into the Twin Trade Towers and the Pentagon. That would be biased and illiberal. They try very hard to avoid the appearance of political incorrectness. They don't want their anti-Zionism to appear to be AntiSemitic and go to great effort to show why they are not AntiSemitic and even at that they fail to understand that when one supports those who attack Israel with the express intent of destroying the State of Israel - or declare as the president of Iran just did, that he wants to wipe Israel from the map - that those Islamists which the left supports have no interest for peaceful coexistence and support those who want to kill Jews can not be anything but AntiSemitic. The left does not like to blame perpetrators of gun violence for the crime. They blame the guns, as-if the gun made them do it. Having a gun is not an invitation to use it nor is regulating guns going to stop someone from geting one and using it.. The gun didn't make them do it. It is a bad argument, one which they are losing. The left doesn't like to blame higher crime rates on African-American even if there are more black criminals because the criminal system has always been biased against blacks - and certainly it has, but that does not change the correct conclusion that African-Americans do a lot more of the crime as a percentage of their population. We should not be concerned or afraid of going where the facts lead us. I'll say that again, we should not - MUST NOT - be afraid of going where the facts lead us. Even if the Iraqis didn't have WMD, we would have to invent the sham that they did have WMD. Either that or we would have to give it to them. (We did) Clash of Civilizations Go here for MORE: http://pnews. http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/FacTS.shtml org/ArT/WaR/FacTS.shtml __ NOD32 2379 (20070704) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [PNEWS-L] Re: Natural laws and other parts of the universe
Pedro - or C. Pedro, whichever you prefer to be called, your analysis below was brilliant. I have never read it stated so eloquently. Thank you. Would you mind if I quoted it in full in a file for this list and perhaps put it on the WEB as well? If you ever expand this topic I would like to receive a copy of it also. Thanks so much. It was a great loss when Richard Feynman died in the 80s. What a terrific mind that was. If you or anyone would like to listen and/or see some of his lectures, they are preserved at: http://www.vega.org.uk/video/subseries/8 Hank Roth On Fri, 6 Jul 2007, Carlos Pedro Gonÿe7alves wrote: Hello Ian, It is important, regarding these matters, to be very clear on the fundamental significance of the statements that we make and their implications. Indeed, when we state that the laws of physics are the same everywhere, this is a statement of physical necessity, that is, one is actually stating that it is physically necessary that the laws of physics are the same everywhere. Now, any statement of physical necessity possesses a law-like nature, that is, if a proposition p is stated as physically necessary, then, it must be implied by the laws of physics, or, in the limit, it must, itself, be a law of physics. The fact that physicists are questioning the limit and scopes of the validity of the laws of physics, is, by itself, sufficient argument to see that we cannot ascribe, today, a physical necessity to an absolute and universal validity of the laws of physics. Even if it turns out to be the case that the laws of physics are absolutely and universally valid, we cannot, in our current state of knowledge, empirical and theoretical, assign a value of physical necessity to the above statement, since it would imply stating it with the same value of a law of physics, and we do not yet have a universal law of physics that states that the laws of physics cannot change in space, time or scale. Furthermore, there is a basic problem with the statement that the laws of physics must be the same everywhere, it is ambiguous, and one should never make a statement of physical necessity with respect to ambiguous propositions. There are several ambiguities in the statement, one of them regards the nature and notion of laws of physics (which must be made clearer). There was a religious tradition that influenced the original sense in which a physical law was considered, more specifically, the laws of physics were considered as absolute, universal, intemporal, inheriting the attributes of the divine intellect. Since then, the scientific perspective and position regarding the nature of a scientific law has changed. This change can be seen very clearly in Feynmans book The Character of a Physical Law, or, even in the following passage by Julian Huxley (1992, [1964], p.100): Scientific laws and concepts alike are organized creations of the human mind, by means of which the disorderly raw material of natural phenomena presented to crude experience is worked into orderly and manageable forms. A scientific concept is an intellectually effective integration of experience just as a painting is an aesthetically effective one. In a similar line, Laughlin states that the laws of physics resemble an impressionist painting. Any statement of physical necessity, about the nature of the laws of physics, would have to transcend our present technological and scientific capabilities. A point to which we shall return to below. Now, regarding the second, and the worst, ambiguity, it refers to the usage of the word everywhere. After Einstein, we can no longer speak of a where without reference to a when, whenever we speak of different parts of the universe we are also speaking about spatialization and temporalization. Thus, for instance, when we state that the laws of physics are the same everywhere, are we also considering an everywhen? And what is the scale of the statement? Are we including the laws of physics of all scales? Or just some of the scales? Do they possess validity at all scales, or only at some? Just to exemplify why we cannot state the physical necessary statement that the laws of physics are the same everywhere, let us, just consider the matter of scale and the Lorentz invariance. Although Lorentz invariance has been confirmed, at the scales we are able to probe, we cannot discard the possibility of it being broken at smaller scales, we cannot state that Lorentz invariance is physically necessary in an absolute and universal sense, because it is possible, that it may be broken. That possibility is what makes the minimal standard model extension a valid conjecture. If it comes to be proven right or wrong, that is not the issue, the issue is that today, it is a valid conjecture, we cannot completely discard it. The fact that we are unable to
[PNEWS-L] Bird Flu and You and Your Animal Companions
Bird Flu and You and Your Animal Companions In Bird Flu: A Virus of Our Own Hatching, Michael Greger describes a traditional Asian fish-farming practice in which battery-caged chickens are placed directly over feeding troughs in pig pens which in turn are positioned above fish ponds. The pigs eat the bird droppings and then defecate into the ponds. (United Poultry Concerns) This method of feeding excrement to farmed animals mirrors the way farmed animals around the world really are fed, and how much of the worlds plant agriculture is fertilized. Animal-based fertilizer and wastewater runoff from animal farming operations explain why crops such as cantaloupe and spinach can infect people with intestinal bacteria like Salmonella and E. coli and why fresh vegetables may contain substantial amounts of antibiotics with potential health risks to consumers including enhanced antibiotic resistance (Kumara). (United Poultry Concerns) Farmed animal feed is a dumping ground for farmed animal waste (Firman). Farmed animals are fed each others infected body parts and manure. Egg-laying hens are fed spent hen meal. A 2006 report on the poultry industrys leading role in promoting virulent bird flu, by the agribusiness watchdog group GRAIN, notes that a standard ingredient in industrial chicken feed and most industrial animal feed is poultry litter, a euphemism for whatever is found on the floor of the factory farms: fecal matter, feathers, bedding, etc. (GRAIN, 13). (United Poultry Concerns) * URL: United Poultry Concerns And what about the dogs and cats who were getting sick from contaminated pet food? What did your government really do to stop it? The Bush administration did nothing. They want you to forget about it. Your lives and the lives of your animals don't mean anything to them. This is capitalism baby. Profits before people. It always was and always will be and the Democrats are not much better. In 2008, stay home or vote Greens. The entire story was never disclosed. It has been reported recently - if you look for it - that pet food contamination was an animal food scandal of such magnitude that to tell it all would adversely affect all of our trade with China and those with a big financial interest in China trade did not want the full story told. When have we heard that before? Too often and we can't tolerate it. If congress won't act, we need a new congress. MORE:: http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/AnDy.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Antisemitic Propaganda Sandwichs
Don't Swallow Palestinianian and Antisemitic Propaganda Sandwichs LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN: 68% LEFT WITHOUT EVER SEEING AN ISRAELI SOLDIER Even Abraham Sachar, who in his book, A HISTORY OF ISRAEL, (just revised) who doesn't go as far as Peters by claiming that they were asked to leave, does state the obvious, that many did. He writes: The most obvious reason for the mass exodus was the collapse of Palestine Arab political institutions that ensued upon the flight of the Arab leadership -- at the very moment when that leadership was most needed. Even if no one Arab leader implored others to leave, by their example they caused others to leave. Sachar continues: The departure of mukhtars, judges, and cadis from Haifa and the New City of Jerusalem, from Jaffa, Safed, and elsewhere, dealt a grave blow to the Arab population. The semi-feudal character of Arab society rendered the illiterate fellah almost entirely dependent on the landlord and cadi, and once this elite was gone, the Arab peasant was terrified by the likelihood of remaining in an institutional and cultural void. They led them out whether their doing so was intended to have that result or not. They left out of fear and they left because they saw their elite running away so they followed them. But even numbers nitpick the issue because the point of the matter is most left of their own accord. They were not driven out as has been constantly claimed by Arab propagandists like Ali Abunimah. Many left because elites set the example for leaving. Many left because many always leave in the face of hostilities and the hostilities had been predominantly from the Arab side. Another words, if war had never been made against the Jews, the Arabs would have their national homeland in an area partitioned for them, and be a national entity which they NEVER had before the UN offered it to them. NEVER before did they have their own homeland. They may have lived in those areas, but so did Jews but Arabs, many of whom were NOT Palestinians (because there was NO Palestinian national home and therefore no Palestinian citizenship) could have been, just like ALL other Arab countries also so created by the UN in that time. MORE: http://pnews.org/news/index.php/IfTruthMattered
[PNEWS-L] George's Buddy Abdullah
Dubya and His Buddy Abdullah The Bush-Saudi Connection In 1920, under a League of Nations mandate, officials from France and Great Britain carved up vast tracts of warlord-dominated territories in Arabia into what they imagined would be nation states devoid of the complex historical, cultural, and tribal realities of the Mideast. Instead of establishing European-style nation states, the strongest warlords quickly entrenched themselves with the aid of standing armies and spy networks. In much of the Mideast, fealty is often accorded to tribal overlords and the Islamic sects they favor rather than to the territory and people within the boundaries of the nation state. Jonathan Rabin succinctly defines the reality, past and present, of the desert sheikdoms: The systems of government that have evolved in Syria, Iraq and Saudi Arabia are paranoid family dictatorships with ancestral roots in a single city or village. (1) Islamic fundamentalists like Osama bin Laden make their appeals to the nation or community of believers, not to any particular nation state, although the rich and powerful among the Muslims have founded Western-style businesses and formed corporations both inside and outside the boundaries of their native countries. Because Osama himself is a scion of a rich Saudi family with wide-ranging business interests throughout the world, the split Saudi personality is most evident in him and the bin Laden clan. Osama, who calls America The Great Satan, has done business with the infidel Americans whenever it suited him. MORE: http://pnews.org/ArT/Xray/BSaud.shtml Hank Roth http://pnews.org/ PNEWS-L
[PNEWS-L] Telling It Like It Is..
As a general rule, every war is fought twice: first on the battlefield, then in the historiographical arena. The Arabs failed to destroy the State of Israel in 1948; in the next fifty years, they and their Western partisans waged a sustained propaganda battle to cast the birth of Israel as the source of all evil. In the late 1980s this effort received a major boost with the advent of a group of Israeli academics calling themselves the New Historians who claim to have discovered archival evidence substantiating the anti-Israeli case. These politicized historians have turned the saga of Israel's birth upside down, with aggressors turned into hapless victims and the reverse. The Jewish acceptance of the United Nations Resolution of November 29, 1947, partitioning Mandatory Palestine into two new statesJewish and Arabis completely ignored or dismissed as a disingenuous ploy; similarly, the violent Palestinian and Arab attempt to abort this resolution is overlooked. The concerted Arab attack on the newly-established State of Israel in mid-May 1948 is whitewashed as a haphazard move by ill-equipped and poorly trained armies confronted with a formidable Jewish force. It has even been suggested that the Palestinians, rather than the Israelis, were the target of this concerted Arab attack. So successful has this effort been that what began as propaganda has become received dogma. It is striking to see how popularity has widely come to be equated with veracity, as if the most commonly held position must by definition be the correct one. I personally learned this when some critics rejected my exposure of the New Historians methods not on scholarly grounds but because my work ran counter to the popular view. Thus Joel Beinin of Stanford University questioned my conclusions on the grounds that many of the arguments of the `new historians' are widely accepted today in liberal Israeli intellectual circles. Of course, fashion and popularity cannot authenticate incorrect historical facts and argument. For this reason, it is important to return to the heart of the matter and reexamine the factual basis underlying the anti-Israel indictment. Continued at: http://pnews.org/news/index.php/ReignOfError [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [PNEWS-L] Jewish Genes
That is true, many people answer most questions with a question. BUT I didn't know that was a Jewish thing. And none of this is important except for the things Jews are accused of being. I think the question, what is a Jew is an absurdity. There are 38 species of dog. So how many species of Jew are there? Hank On Fri, 6 Jul 2007, John wrote: Hank: no, I didn't. BTW: you disregarded my word 'silly' and distorted my statement that *those*, whlo are racist (by their choice and their own decision, skinnheads etc., may pick up your gene-ology to support their pet belief about a Jewish race what they hate. I did not say Judaism is a race. * Atheists? how about the orthodox and Hassid crowd? I would not even call 'atheist' those (?) 'reform'-Jews either, who attend services in diverse synagogues - do they claim to follow a faith or not. Omigod is an old an strong meme. John PS: There was a long standing discussion on a history-list about who is a Jew and the final conclusion was: ask him a question, if he answers with a question, he is a Jew. (And please, do not draw psychopathological or political conclusions upon ME for this joke). - Original Message - From: adar To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [PNEWS-L] Jewish Genes It is obvious you didn't -- study genetics. There is no race. Jews share genes and so does everyone else but how much of it determines how closely related we are. That is not the message. The message is not about tribes or clans, it is about justice and the ignorance of religion. Jews had their reformation first. Many were hellenized before there were Christians and the Muslims have never modernized. Most Jews are atheists, or didn't you know that? Hank On Thu, 5 Jul 2007, John wrote: Hank: just a silly question: where do you 'start' your concept of a race? the chromosomal differences may serve racists. Then again: you probably refer to A. Koestler's The 13th Tribe (your pejorative remark on the 'Kazar conversion, the confessed hoax of Koestler) yet preservation of the original Mediterranean dark-hair bignose Sefardim type is not supporting the blond stubnose chubby Askenazy Jews coming from the Russian etc. parts. A friend gave me a hint: those semi-savage slavic males did take advantage of the sexy Jewish girls over many centuries by the millions, changing the Jewish type into their Slavic looks. (Try genetic calculations). --- Just the select Kohenite chromosome- ratio did not change Is our genetic knowledge so well established that we can draw so far-reaching conclusions from some measurement data and their evaluation upon today's 'knowledge'? I don't know, I did not study genetiics. John
[PNEWS-L] New Historians
I do believe them when they cheer for bin Laden... -- Bennie Morris - The New Historians This is an astounding statement from Benny Morris who has often been quoted by anti-Zionists and other new historians, although he is less quoted now since he has repudiated any capitulation to AntiSemitism and the Intifada. This is a vindication of Zionism and many on the Israeli left. Benny states what has been historically obvious and factual. He, like many others of us, have never hesitated to be critical of Israel and that criticism is still valid. This is also what MANY in the Israeli left have been saying and what has been continually rejected by the U.S. and British left who very often called it self-serving. The left in Israel has also been labelled as rejectionist and not a real left at all for taking the _practical and realistic_ view, which is the same view articulated by Benny Morris and because it is being stated by Morris, it is the BEST vindication of the Israeli articulated by a so-called post-Zionist writer. For those who LOVE to quote from the New Historians and especially Bennie Morris - if they considered everything that Bennie Morris said in his critical book[s] and essays about Israel then they must also be willing to quote Bennie Morris now - who places the blame where blame belongs, on Palestinian-Arabs. Bennie Morris is painfully honest and direct. He recognizes that justice must apply to everyone and senior Palestinian officials never speak about justice for the Jews. In fact they often say that any concessions they make now are merely a step toward the total destruction of the State of Israel You can read those quotes from senior Arab officials vowing the elimination of Israel in other articles in the Archives here. The Arabs Are Responsible Post-Zionist Historian Benny Morris Clarifies His Thesis Full Article http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/NeW.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Pet Food Companies Owned by Multinationals
The distributors of this contaminated pet food are not so concerned because litigation is almost non-existent and even if you could collect for your animal, it would not be enough to compensate you for the emotional loss of a friend. Pet Food companies are owned by multinationals. They are in the business to make a profit. What they think you don't know won't hurt you, but it will hurt your animals. The commercial pet foods industry rakes in billions of dollars annually. In exchange for our dollars, we trust the companies to provide our pets with quality nutrition. The recent pet food recall demonstrated that our trust has been misplaced. But while many were shocked by the tragic deaths of beloved pets, many more would be shocked to know that the pet food industry has a long history of mistreating our pets... (Ann Martin, Why Is the Pet Food Industry Killing Our Pets? - http://www.earthisland.org/eijournal/journal.cfm) Dogs Eat Dogs Ann Martin analyzed the contents of dog food she was feeding her companion animals and discovered drugs used to euthenize pets were also found in pet food: I personally have been able to trace euthanized pets from veterinary clinics in the city where I live to rendering plants where they are processed; the end results are shipped to pet food companies. Pentobarbital, the drug used to euthanize these animals, ends up being fed to our pets. Results of a study conducted by the University of Minnesota show that pentobarbital survived rendering without undergoing degradation. In the late 1990s, officials from the Food and Drug Administration, Center for Veterinary Medicine (FDA/CVM) decided to investigate a theory that dogs were exposed to pentobarbital through dog food. Researchers developed a test to detect pentobarbital in dry commercial dog foods. (Martin) Tests were conducted in 1998 and again in 2000. The first series of tests detected only the presence of pentobarbital but did not indicate the levels that were present in the foods. The second series of tests used 25 samples: 15 were found to contain pentobarbital. Ol' Roy, Heinz, Kibbles 'n Bits, Trailblazer, Dad's, Purina Pro Plan, Reward and a number of lesser-known brands were among the pet foods showing various levels of pentobarbital. In tests designed to dispute that dogs and cats are the source of pentobarbital in pet food, the FDA/CVM conducted DNA testing to ascertain what animals might be in the food. In a statement released on its Web site, it said that no dog or cat DNA was found and that the pentobarbital residues are entering pet food from euthanized, rendered cattle and even horses. (Martin) Full Article: http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/AnDy.shtml
Re: [PNEWS-L] Re: Palestinians
Amy: It is childish to think that someone born in Israel might have a right to return to Israel if they are sworn to destroy Israel and kill the Jews. That would not be allowed in any country in the world. You are either extremely naive or you are being purposely antagonistic toward the Jews of Israel and against peace. I think you are anti-peace. It seems obvious from your comments. How could preventing terrorism be indefensible? The logic is it is perfectly reasonable and you must know that. Neither can Israel consider land for peace because it does not work. The proof is Gaza. A unilateral withdrawal from Gaza created a Hamastan which will never accept israel. The same thing would happen on the West Bank. Israel must declare the West Bank part of Israel and those who will not accept Israeli sovereignty should be considered alien residents without any special rights. Why pay for school and health care which is provided to Israeli citizens if someone wants to harm the state and it's inhabitants. Those who want to leave should be encouraged to do so. Where is it you live? They can move there. Hank On Fri, 6 Jul 2007, Amy Hendrickson wrote: is it childish to think that we are all equals? is it childish to think that people born in historic Palestine have a right to return there? when people are trying to justify a situation but know that their opinion is logically indefensible they use terms like childish Are you saying that Palestinians are foreign in Israel? I don't think that is logically defensible. - Original Message - From: physisvnomos To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 6:35 PM Subject: [PNEWS-L] Re: Palestinians --- In PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com, Amy Hendrickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hank-- Do you agree with the concept of equal rights for all people living in historic Palestine? If not, how can you justify your belief system? This appeal to equal rights comes from an almost childish understanding of right or rights. Some rights obtain with respect to an individual depending on his or her citizenship. A person visiting a foreign state does not have the same rights as a citizen. Timothy E. Kennelly -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.1/888 - Release Date: 7/6/2007 6:36 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [PNEWS-L] Re: Palestinians
Amy: Don't you have any respect for the truth at all? You submitted an article where an Arab camera man was shot in Gaza and you put the blame on Israel because you quote from falsified Arab sources, which are not credible because they lie. I did not accept your post because PNEWS-L is not your soap box for Arab lies and for those who promote the Arab line of march. There is nothing accurate in anything from Arab sources (anymore than what you might find on sources like LinkTV, which also promotes the big lie about Israel). It is your misuse of the internet which is dispictable and disgraceful. Here is the real story of your death and destruction by Arabs against Arabs. Be ashamed. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/853107.html On Fri, 6 Jul 2007, Amy Hendrickson wrote: Is is ok for you to decide that Palestinians need to immigrate to Jordan? How come? - Original Message - From: physisvnomos To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 6:23 PM Subject: [PNEWS-L] Re: Palestinians One state for Palestian Arabs is a great idea, but do not count on the state being democrartic as it is not. The name of that state is Jordan. Timothy E. Kennelly From: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Amy Hendrickson Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:27 AM To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [PNEWS-L] Re: Palestinians which killers? Personally I am against all killing and would suggest that one democratic state for all of historic Palestine would be the best way of life for all people living there. What do you think of that? -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.1/888 - Release Date: 7/6/2007 6:36 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [PNEWS-L] Re: Palestinians
Are you daft? Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Israelis have the right to dissent, to free assembly and speech which makes Israel both unique among nations, but also exceptional in the Middle East. All Israelis, Arabs, Jews, Christians, and everyone else - all of its citizens have civil and political rights. Israel has regular and free elections. Israel has an independent judiciary. Israel has impressive and extraordinary freedom of speech and association and rights to criticize the government and everything else and Jews generally do. Ask yourself how many other states anywhere offer their citizens the same rights and the answer is none. Israel is unique among states. Either you are brainwashed, or you are trolling. What is it? Hank Roth On Sat, 7 Jul 2007, Amy Hendrickson wrote: It seems to me the best way to increase antisemitism and the chance of violence against Jews is to continue the oppression of the Palestinians. Do you think that Israel protects Jews? I see no evidence of that. Ask Azmi Bishara how democratic Israel is-- Is a Jewish State a democracy for its Palestinian or Druse or other-than-Jewish citizens? How can it be? It is a contradiction in terms. - Original Message - From: adar To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [PNEWS-L] Re: Palestinians Is not having a Jewish State worth another 6 million exterminated Jews? There would be no dead Arabs if the Arabs did not attack Israelis. Israel takes care of Muslims better than Islamic states take care of them. And it is the only real democracy in the Middle-East. A citizen of Israel can vote and become Prime Minister, whether he is a Druze, a Jew or a Muslim. Hank On Sat, 7 Jul 2007, Amy Hendrickson wrote: Hank-- look at it this way-- Is having a Jewish State worth killing one Palestinian child? Personally I wouldn't think so. So, give up the notion of a Jewish State and instead have a state with equal rights for all its citizens, and there is no longer any need to kill children, or their parents. Wouldn't that be better for everyone? Sincerely, Amy - Original Message - From: adar To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [PNEWS-L] Re: Palestinians Amy: It is childish to think that someone born in Israel might have a right to return to Israel if they are sworn to destroy Israel and kill the Jews. That would not be allowed in any country in the world. You are either extremely naive or you are being purposely antagonistic toward the Jews of Israel and against peace. I think you are anti-peace. It seems obvious from your comments. How could preventing terrorism be indefensible? The logic is it is perfectly reasonable and you must know that. Neither can Israel consider land for peace because it does not work. The proof is Gaza. A unilateral withdrawal from Gaza created a Hamastan which will never accept israel. The same thing would happen on the West Bank. Israel must declare the West Bank part of Israel and those who will not accept Israeli sovereignty should be considered alien residents without any special rights. Why pay for school and health care which is provided to Israeli citizens if someone wants to harm the state and it's inhabitants. Those who want to leave should be encouraged to do so. Where is it you live? They can move there. Hank On Fri, 6 Jul 2007, Amy Hendrickson wrote: is it childish to think that we are all equals? is it childish to think that people born in historic Palestine have a right to return there? when people are trying to justify a situation but know that their opinion is logically indefensible they use terms like childish Are you saying that Palestinians are foreign in Israel? I don't think that is logically defensible. - Original Message - From: physisvnomos To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 6:35 PM Subject: [PNEWS-L] Re: Palestinians --- In PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com, Amy Hendrickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hank-- Do you agree with the concept of equal rights for all people living in historic Palestine? If not, how can you justify your belief system? This appeal to equal rights comes from an almost childish understanding of right or rights. Some rights obtain with respect to an individual depending on his or her citizenship. A person visiting a foreign state does not have the same rights as a citizen. Timothy E. Kennelly -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.1/888
Re: [PNEWS-L] Illegal Occupation is a Bullshit Charge
I disagree. I call it truth. I call it Dirshu Mispat (to seek justice). I call it sanity in an insane world. I'm not here to amuse or to entertain. This forum has only been useful as a tool for propagating truth. Hank On Sun, 8 Jul 2007, John wrote: Hank: one gets distracted by all that clutter going on on your list. It seems you close your mind to the rest of the world when the idea of 'Jewish' emerges - funny from an openminded guy like you. (Besides: as I read, that Bedouin policeman and lots of other Arabs are also 'Israelis'). Do you really mean that NYC belongs to 'that' Native American tribe? Or the African countries are property of those early apes? How far do you want to go back with activating past ownership to alleged late heirs - no matter what happened in interim times? Does London still belong to the Italians, who are decendants to the Romans owning Brittany? Fortunately I don't have to (for now at least) and don't want to take sides in bloody conflicts if I am not involved, I am only applying to reason. Upon one sided views you cannot solve two sided problems. It is also true, of course, that accepting the position of the other side is not proliferous. Bickering is the least proliferous. I appreciate the information I receive from the list and try to separate it from the hate-clutter. John - Original Message - From: adar To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 10:04 PM Subject: [PNEWS-L] Illegal Occupation is a Bullshit Charge Accusing Israel of illegal occupation is a bullshit charge. You cannot occupy what is already yours. This analysis clearly points out legal and compelling reasons why it is incorrect to consider the territories occupied by Israel. (Israel holds the deed) Furthermore, settlements should be immediately annexed to make that claim obvious and all belligerent Arabs should be removed from those areas where they are a threat to Israel's existence and well-being. Jordan captured the territory in the War of Independance, annexed and kept it for 19 years, until Israel acquired the West Bank and Gaza in Six Day War (67). Does Jordan own the West Bank bank? No. (Nor does Egypt own Gaza) Jordan doesn't want any land west of the Jordan River. It is no longer Jordanian territory and King Hussein does not want it. He doesn't want to defend it. Israel put settlements there, where Jews once lived. Jews also once lived in large communities in Saudi Arabia and they also lived in Jordan but are not longer permitted to live there. They have also been expelled from other Arab countries. They returned to Israel where they once lived and thrived. The security fence and the settlements on the West Bank are necessary for security to provide a buffer between Arabs on the West Bank and cities in Israel. The Israelis are in possession of the West Bank. Palestinians who live there are not a nation. They are Arabs who live in the territory without any sovereign rights. And no other nation has a claim to the West Bank. Israel is however a nation. When defending herself against Arab aggression, Israel acquired the territory from Jordan, who did annex and own it. The territories were acquired by Israel in a defensive war and are now held for security and rights which are established from the highest national security interest which is self-preservation. Israel has a legitimate right to own the land. There are no legitimate competing rights or claims which rank higher than self-defense, preservation and protection of life. The Israelis own it So it cannot be occupied. Full Article: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/OcC.shtml (All the proof you need to dispel the lies of Arab propagandists can be found at http://inyourface.info/crypt and by following the links I provide - Read and become informed. --Hank Roth) Progressive News/Views (since 1982) Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [PNEWS-L] (1) A Declaration of Independence From Israel
This is a serious matter: I don't think you read my response to this piece razldazl (love that name), but maybe I mispoke when I said there was some things I might agree with because after your piece and reading it again, I didn't find anything to agree with. My admiration for Hitchens is past-tense and I do like his new book on religion; that is, his book challenging the purpose of religion. But, anyone can change their mind and I was not aware of his bias, as this piece demonstrates. I know too much about the Israeli-Arab conflict to agree with much, if anything. As for Truthdig, there seems to be various views represented there an most of them are pretty good. I would say the same about Huffington Post and some other sites. They can't all the time be right. Thanks for your well-thought out analysis. As stated already I agreed with most of it. The rest I'll have to read again and mull it over - as I usually do before I agree with everything (which I rarely do - I'm smiling even though this is hardly a smiling matter.) Indeed this is mostly life and death stuff and Hitchens disappoints me by his bias which I believe to be unwarranted. He needs to spend some time in Israel. Hank On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, razldazl wrote: I've seen some material come out of this so-called 'truthdig' organisation and never liked much of what I've seen deposited. Often, extremely one-sided, non-objective and very loose with facts. I don't quite understand why you would like this article? It is very one-sided; one was going to say borderline propaganda, but upon reflection it is agitprop, pure demonization of Israel, without a rational basis. For instance, just from these brief paragraphs: (a) Whilst AID to Israel is caricatured in the 'negative,' no mention of US overall AID for other 'Strategic defence' reasons throughout the globe, nor the billions of dollars in AID to Arabs, (some 'loans' not even needing to be paid back; by Egypt for instance. Egypt reported as the heaviest militarist build-up in recent.) (b) No mention of speaks-from-both-sides-of-his-mouth theocon Carter; and his tens of billions in AID, that kick-stated Islamic Jihad, ousted the secular Shah of (albeit unsavoury) Iran , and empowered a theocracy, under the Ayatollah Khomeini! [Yet, I've read Hedges fulminate with overinflated hype about US 'theocracy!'] Carter and Brzezinski started a $40 billion covert program of training Islamic fundamentalists in Pakistan and Afghanistan as a part of the efforts to foil the Soviets' apparent plans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter Carter chipped a crack in the 'wall of separation' and permitted the Vatican fascist pope JPII to initiate the dicta of American policy domestic and foreign. The buffoon Reagan later committed himself and the US, to the unholy alliance with the fascist-paid-for Catholic State. The key Administration players were all devout Roman Catholics -- CIA chief William Casey, Allen, Clark, Haig, Walters and William Wilson, Reagan's first ambassador to the Vatican. They regarded the U.S.-Vatican relationship as a holy alliance: Time, February 24, 1992, Cover Story; The Holy Alliance. Carter trampled; the fascist Reagan bulldozed any notion of a 'wall of separation.' American policy was changed as a result of the Vatican's not agreeing with our policy, Wilson explains. American aid programs around the world did not meet the criteria the Vatican had for family planning. AID [the Agency for International Development] sent various people from [the Department of] State to Rome, and I'd accompany them to meet the president of the Pontifical Council for the Family, and in long discussions they finally got the message. But it was a struggle. They finally selected different programs and abandoned others as a result of this intervention. --Time (ibid) (c) Mention is made of Israel's fiasco with the USS Liberty, but no mention of numerous 'independent' US investigations into the USS Liberty incident; exonerating the incident as unintentional. Not a word of objectively. Yet, against the bulk of evidence, Hedges claims and insinuates the attack was a deliberative tactic of Israel. How could an alleged journalist possibly not be aware of numerous independent investigations? This is abject bias. http://www.thelibertyincident.com/senateinvestigation.html http://www.thelibertyincident.com/ The Israeli's are such apparent cold-blooded killers, whilst they had a virtual sitting duck before them; they left this 'deliberate attack,' not even half done --allegedly. Is Hedges a complete moron? (d) The final paragraph, is probably the silliest and inconsistent. He's obviously become rather fevered as he's fulminating in the piece. He's unaware that he began by claiming Israel is virtually a fief, or literal puppet State of the U.S., but ends with a stereotypical far Right, excitable pseudo-Left conspiracy theorist's
[PNEWS-L] (unknown)
Throughout the eighties, when the United States assisted the Saudis in a giant military buildup of airfields, ports, and bases throughout the kingdom, many of the contracts were awarded to the largest construction company in Saudi Arabia, the Saudi Binladen Group, founded by Osama bin Ladens father. At the same time, the United States trained and armed troops in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. The United States and Saudi Arabia spent about $40 billion on the war in Afghanistan, recruiting, supplying, and training nearly 100,000 radical mujahideen from forty Muslim countries, including Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Algeria, and Afghanistan itself. Among the recruits were Osama bin Laden and his followers. (2) With C.I.A. funding, Osama bin Laden imported engineers and equipment from his fathers Saudi construction company to build tunnels for guerrilla training centers and hospitals, and for arms dumps near the Pakistan border. After the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan, the C.I.A. and the Pakistani intelligence agency sponsored the Taliban organization, a government composed of the fanatic Wahhabi Islamic sect, the same sect that is the state religion in Saudi Arabia. Although followers of the Wahhabi sect do not refer to themselves as Wahhabis, the label is useful because it applies to a single Muslim group with a set of beliefs peculiar to them alone: Wahhabis maintain that Shi'ites and Sufis are not Muslims, and that Muslims should not visit shrines or celebrate Mohammeds birthday. (3) MORE: http://pnews.org/ArT/Xray/BSaud.shtml
[PNEWS-L] World-wide Jewish Conspiracy
How then did Islamists in 1947 explain to themselves international support of the creation of Israel? By completely ignoring the murder of six million European Jews by Nazi Germany, they reverted to antisemitic conspiracy theories. In this vein, the Brotherhood considered the UN-decision of 1947 to partition Palestine to be an international plot carried out by the Americans, the Russians and the British, under the influence of Zionism. (16) Shortly after the liberation of Auschwitz and the recognition that most of European Jews had been too powerless to prevent their murder, the Islamists branded Jews as the true world-ruling power. The Nazi belief in a world-wide Jewish conspiracy had not only survived the collapse of the Hitler regime, but was eagerly adopted in 1947 in an Arabic world where the Muslim Brotherhood had by now succeeded in mustering a million supporters. Tens of thousands of Arab copies of one of the most repugnant anti-Jewish publication, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, were published in the following decades by two well-known former members of the Muslim Brotherhood, Gamal Abdel Nasser and Anwar al-Sadat. (17) Hundreds of thousands copies of the essay by Sayyid Qutb - Our struggle with the Jews - written in 1950, were distributed throughout the Muslim World in the aftermath of the 1967 Six-days-war. The new impact of the Nazi-like conspiracy theories becomes particularly obvious if we take a look at the Charta of the Muslim Brotherhood of Palestine which calls itself Hamas. This Charta, created in 1988, represents one of the most important Islamist programs of today. Here, Hamas pointedly makes use of the antisemitic rhetoric of the Mufti of Jerusalem which he in turn had adopted from the Nazis. The Brotherhood of Palestine defines itself as a universal movement whose jihad was the spearhead and the avant-garde in their struggle against world Zionism. MORE http://pnews.org/ArT/Xray/ROOT.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Israel is a Democracy
In so far as procedure is concerned, Israel is clearly a democracy, one which began as far back as 1897 with the first Zionist Congress. The nucleus of its population consists of the same 650,000 Jews who settled in Israel in the pre-independence period and who have gone through the school of democracy in the Zionist Movement and in the Jewish National Council in Palestine. There is no other training for democracy but democracy; there is no other school of self-government but self-government... Moshe Davis, Israel: Its Role in Civilization Harper, 1956 The Israeli Collective Israel was founded as a democracy and it is still a democracy, even though there are some that say Israel is not democractic enough to provide equal rights for Palestinians. Israel does provide equal right for Arabs who are Israelis. It does not provide citizen rights to non-citizens, but it does accord autonomy to Palestinians. Their structure is hardly democratic and Israel deals with them at arms length. Israel values enduring concepts of human worth, freedom, democracy, the rights of minorities, the right to be different. Zionism was democratic in all its institutions which were inherited by the new state. Democracy in Israel formed an integral part of the life of the new society before it even attained independent statehood. The Israel system of government conforms to the British continental model of parliamentary democracy. In spite of all the pronouncements to the contrary in Cockburn's Counterpunch, Israel is a dynamic and vital democracy. Hank Roth MORE: http://pnews.org/art/12art/1IsCollective.shtml
[PNEWS-L] History of Expelling and Murdering Jews
In fact Arab countries have a history of expelling and murdering Jews. Israel on the other hand welcomes Arabs (et al), to become citizens of the state; those who are sincere, and those who do not threaten Israelis and those who do not intend to do Israelis harm. There are no democracies in the Middle East except for Israel. A democracy is a rule of the majority while it also protects the rights of minorities. In Israel there is no constitution, but the Israeli Declaration of Independence provides and insures that the rights of non-Jews will be protected and they are - to the extent that non-Jews may participate in the electoral process and government and are free to make choices which will better benefit them. You cannot say the same about any Arab-Muslim country. The Declaration of Independence affirms that Israel will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; that it will be based on the foundations of liberty, justice and peace; that it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all of its citizens, irrespective of religion, race or sex; and that it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture. Furthermore, two Basic Laws guarantee the basic rights and liberties of all citizens. Basic Law: Human Dignity and Freedom (1992) purports to protect human dignity and freedom in order to anchor the values of the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state. It maintains that a human being's property must not be harmed; that every person is entitled to the protection of his or her life, body and dignity; and that no person's freedom may be taken or restricted by arrest, imprisonment, or extradition, or in any other manner. In turn, Basic Law: Freedom of Occupation (1992) holds that every citizen or resident of the state is entitled to engage in any occupation, profession or line of work, and that every governmental agency must respect the freedom of occupation of every citizen or resident. (Raphael Cohen-Almagor, The Delicate Framework of Israeli Democracy During the 1980s: Retrospect and Appraisal - from Israel: The First Hundred Years, Volume III, Efraim Karsh (ed) - Raphael Cohen-Almagor is Chairperson of Library and Information Studies at the University of Haifa.) MORE http://pnews.org/news/index.php/HalfTruth
[PNEWS-L] Yes, the Arabs are to blame
(Karsh) Yes, the Palestinians are to blame. And this is true not only because they rejected Ehud Barak's generous offer but also because they are unwilling to come to terms with Israel's existence here. They want to throw [the Jews] into the ocean, and anyone who holds a different opinion is mistaken. These are the words of the Historian. Were The Palestinians Forced to Leave? One has to go back in time thirteen years in order to understand how surprising [Morris'] statements are. Morris - a Jerusalem Post reporter at the time, a Cambridge University Ph.D, and a Kibbutz and [Israeli Defense Force] Paratroopers veteran - published his book The Birth of The Palestinian Refugee Problem in 1988. His book created an immediate outburst [of an acute debate in Israel]. Up until then, it was generally assumed that 700,000 Palestinians left their homes voluntarily during the 1948 War of Independence, following promises by their leaders that they will be able to return and plunder Jewish property when the war was over. According to what Morris wrote in his 1988 book, that never happened; these stories are nonsense. The leaders of the Yishuv [the Jewish Zionist community in pre-state Israel] believed in a transfer, and in their actions contributed much to the fleeing of the refugees. Some ran away to escape the battles, others left after the Jews made their lives difficult, and still others were simply expelled. [According to Morris' 1988 book], the Palestinians did not leave and did not run away, these words are too soft. They were also not expelled - that word is too harsh. The Palestinians were driven out. [After the book was published,] Morris became [Israel's] public enemy number one, and the price he paid was considerable. He was fired from The Jerusalem Post and he had a hard time finding a job in Israel's academia despite the success of his book outside of Israel... MORE: http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/NeW.shtml
[PNEWS-L] New Arab Nations
And it was not unique in history nor in that time to create nations where before there were none. More than 20 Arab countries were then, in that time after the Turkish defeat, also created by the UN. But Muslims turned down the offer of a division of territory so there could be two states, one Palestinian and one Jewish because that would have meant Jews would be sovereign in an area which they all considered their pan-Arabia. When Jews were expelled with the War of Independence, it was Jordan who captured and held the West Bank for 19 years and it was Egypt which captured and held on to Gaza. And Egypt and Jordan didn't want those territories back when Israel offered it after the war of 67. Arab states wanted to keep the occupied territories in limbo so they could continue to use it as a political propaganda weapon against Israel, which they have very effectively done. Just as with the refugee issue, the territories are greater value as propaganda than it would have been for Egypt and Jordan to take it back. Arabs who live there were never a government with rights of sovereignty. The territories never belonged to anyone during the time the British held them under the Mandate to administer the territory and following the Ottoman defeat in WWI - not until Jordan and Egypt held the territories and now Israel must decide what to do with it, as it has done recently with Gaza. Israel is not as an interloper, and the territory does not belong to the Arabs but since 1967 it is disputed territory, the disposition of which will eventually be decided if and when there is a peace treaty with the Palestinian Authority who is said to represent the Arabs there. MORE: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/SeT.shtml
[PNEWS-L] HAMAS and FATAH doing Political Theater
I just wanted to add another proposition for discussion which I have been thinking about and I am certain will become a major problem in the shake-out which comes when the U.S. departs from Iraq. Sure, we broke it and Colin would say, We Own It. BUT the pressure is on to remove our troops from there and let this broken country repair itself. It can't do that and it won't. There are too many interested parties now. BUT the biggest problem may be for Israel. Some here, like Amy and Jude who can't think beyond their nose will not see this as a problem; they may see it as a solution. The problem is the political theater which was billed as a civil war, which wasn't, between HAMAS and FATAH. Fatah had 60,000 armed military in GAZA and multiple armed fortresses. HAMAS only had less than 6,000 armed fighters, no armed fortresses and no money to speak of, except perhaps what they got from Iran. The order was given for Fatah to pull out and go to the West Bank. No one was killed and no one was wounded in the so-called civil war, because there was none. It was a sham and I don't believe for a minute that MOSAD and the CIA did not see what was really happening. With a pull out from IRAQ, which I have been supporting, may be a mistake. You heard me. FATAH is just as much a terror organization as HAMAS but the U.S. pressured Israel to accept the PLO and a Palestinian state - even though FATAH swore and never changed their charter either, to destroy Israel. Both HAMAS and Fatah have the same objectives. With the U.S. out of Iraq there is a green light for Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria and all the terror organizations which are funded by them to pounce on Israel. FATAH looks like the good guy and it is not and it has millions of dollars in U.S. arms. Olmart is a fool and should be replaced. They need another Sharon and they need one now. I see religion as an impediment to reasonableness and do not support Judaism any more than I support the survival of Christianity or Islam, but Israel has a lot of innocent secularists who will be caught between the rock and the hard place. I have to cut it short for now but you get my drift. Will write more about this later. I just want to say Israel is being betrayed by the U.S., the world, the left and the extremist right and unfortunately the only one it can really rely on is itself and those of us who see through the lies from the Arab propagandists and other supporters of terrorism, like Amy and Jude and others like them the world over. Yes, it is a war for decency and for civilization. Hank
errata: Re: [PNEWS-L] Re: Palestinians
(corrected) Donella: People like Amy and Jude and the goat lady are not fooling anyone. It is human nature to complain about something, but it is sheer hyprocrisy to complain about Israel while ignoring the far worse misdeeds of its neighbors and to be oblivious to Islamist terror which is now sweeping across Europe, was responsible for the worst act of terrorism this country ever experienced and daily is responsible for the death and suffering of Israel women and children. IT IS antisemitic to applaud those who are killing Jews, it is also anti-American to ignore the danger and the damage done to our own citizens for an ideology of plunder and hate. They become guilty by association, ignorance, and support for those who would kill us and kill them too. I also call that stupid. Hank Roth On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, (RESH) wrote: Donella: People like Amy and Jude and the goat lady are not fooling anyone. It is human nature to complain about something, but it is sheer hyprocrisy to complain about Israel while ignoring the far worse misdeeds of its neighbors and to be oblivious to Islamist terror which is now sweeping across Europe, was responsible for the worst act of terrorism this country ever experienced and daily is responsible for the death and suffering of Israel women and children. It is not antisemitic to applaud those who killing Jews, it is also anti-American to ignore the danger and the damage done to our own citizens for an ideology of plunder and hate. They become guilty by association, ignorance, and support for those who would kill us and kill them too. I also call that stupid. Hank Roth On Mon, 9 Jul 2007, donnella whitacre wrote: you know as you have pointed out hank israel isn't perfect, but if the back of the bus thing was happening in an arab countries, there would be no protest. also that is only in one area, there are women in all walks of life in israel these people find one thing that isn't perfect and run with it. could things be better, yes they could, but at least when things are wrong they have a way to fix it. jewish women are't in burqas or confined to the house, or beaten or have acid thrown in their faces for being out in public with out a veil. in iran they have arrrested hundred of women for being improperly dressed and by that token promoting prostitution. most of them i saw had long coats and head dressings but not the burqa. wish th ese people could grasp what that means, also as if these people feel graditute for support. look what they did to daniel pearl? he was trying to tell the world about them, give them a chance to say their side and they butchered him and cut him into 14 pieces. yes he told their story to the world, but sadly not the way h e thought he would. adar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree, these orthodox must go. They are an estoppel to good sense in every religion and culture and Israel is no exception where they are concerned. But they don't stone people to death (not for two thousands years anyway - but Muslims do). Hank On Sun, 8 Jul 2007, marco_pertoni wrote: --- In PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com, Amy Hendrickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hank writes: Are you daft? Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Israelis have the right to dissent, to free assembly and speech which makes Israel both unique among nations, but also exceptional in the Middle East. All Israelis, Arabs, Jews, Christians, and everyone else - all of its citizens have civil and political rights. Hank-- why argue something that is so easy to prove is untrue? Do all citizens of Israel have Equal rights? Hardly-- women haven't, apparently ISRAEL Women reject Taliban-like rules on bus A group of Israeli women filed a petition with the court against requiring women to sit in the back of buses in ultra-Orthodox areas, where sit in the front and women in the back to prevent the sexes from mixing. http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=enart=8334size= Jerusalem (AsiaNews/Agencies) They shouted at me, said Naomi Ragen, after an ultra-Orthodox man had asked to move to the back of the bus. I felt humiliated. The driver didn't even open his mouth to defend me, she added. Naomi Ragen, an Orthodox Jew, and five other women, including a representative of the Reform Judaism movement, filed a petition with Israel's High Court against public bus companies to stop telling women to sit in the back of buses running through some Orthodox Jewish neighbourhoods. I got off the bus with a terrible, terrible feeling that in my country I have to take a public bus home that is under the purview of the Taliban, said the US-born novelist. Many members of the ultra-Orthodox sects of Judaism follow teachings that bar any public contact between men and women, and Israeli government-subsidised transport companies have recently granted demands to run gender-divided buses along some
Re: [PNEWS-L] Way to go pres..
$25,000 sign up bonuses. These troops are mercenaries lite, even if they do think of themselves as Patriots. What is more patriotic, an unjust war - and it is no Vietnam, no jungle warfare, no tens of thousands of fatalities. I support the injured vets. I don't support those who are complicit in the crime, no matter how innocent they are by their ignorance. Everything now known was known before this wra started. The only ones surprised by the facts seem to be the Congress and the Troops. Soldiers do refuse to fight. They are expected to think and dissent is expected if there is what is perceived as a war crime. The war is a crime. I support the vets. Hank On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, John wrote: Hank: support the troops: bring them home safely. End the war. John - Original Message - From: (RESH) To: pnews-l@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 3:02 PM Subject: [PNEWS-L] Way to go pres.. I keep hearing people say we must support the troops. I support veterans but how can I support the killing? I don't. This is not even a real war. I hear them say there is no front line. There isn't. The danger is everywhere. The danger is everywhere in New York, in Miami, in Chicago. There is more of it in Iraq but that is because we're there. It wasn't that way before. The troops are mostly National Guard. When I was a soldier we were regular army and the National Guard was established for emergencies in the states. They didn't send them fight in wars unless they were really hard up. That was why Bush joined the National Air Guard, even though he went AWOL from his duty in Alabama, not Vietnam. So what about the war? What war? Bush keeps talking about war. He does that by calling it a war on terror. But it isn't even a war against terror. It is an insurgency and I don't need to say that because everyone knows it but he still goes on calling it a war because he wants to be the war-time president; the commander-in-chief of a real war. If it was a real war, he would be AWOL again just like he was on 9/11 when he was reading My Pet Goat. We do have an enemy. We have two actually. We have Islamic jihadists who are dispersed throughout the world and we have Bush who has the National Guard and the U.S. army dispersed throughout the world making more enemies. And that isn't all of it. This moron in Washington is everywhere but where we ought to be. And all the time China is rapidly building a new 600-ship navy to fill the naval military vacuum we created in the Pacific while our ships are off the coast of Iran. Way to go pres. Hank Roth [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [PNEWS-L] New Arab Nations
Cooperative, my ass. My authority is Magnum 357. And by the way, for most of the history of this planet, it always has been, whether an stone age spear or a 21st century missile. Hank On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, John wrote: Hank wrote: That is wrong John. I own my property :\you think (and say) so. Just as the mouse owns that hole under your toilet where it lives. There is a sequence in the Haggada which can be applied to 'ownership' (it is about punishment, as far as I know) and at the end it is god with the final one. Not the interim factors. I translate it to 'ownership' which finally goes back to the originating nature and NOBODY can own nature from which we sprang up and live. We can pretend and usurp. You own a mountain? take it away. The Queen or other fictive potentate did not 'own' it either to 'donate' it to anyone. Nor a bank. Practical world you say: comes with the killing. Is the killer who killed most and last the real owner? Whom did the ancient Israelis take the land from? They just came from the desert. Which (later) usurper overrides the natural law? Did the present 'owner' MAKE that land? Just questions, I put no consequence on them. Contribute to the cooperative, peaceful mutual living and that will make a rightful living. Unfortunately I cannot tell that to both parties because the 'other' one does not listen. Nor does this one. John - Original Message - From: (RESH) To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [PNEWS-L] New Arab Nations That is wrong John. I own my property. Technically I will cease owning it when a sink hole opens up and swallows up everything on it. The Spanish once owned it by land grand from the Queen. We don't borrow it. We own it because we have legal fee simple to it. Philosophically, you are right, but we don't live in a philosophical world, we live in a real world. Israelis own the land they acquire by title from the world's legal body, the League of Nations which granded the original Mandate which was thwarted and subverted by the British and barely supported by the U.S. But they especially own it by taking it after being attacked. They own it to provide security for those who live on it and consider themselves Israelis. That is what countries do. They own what they can defend. When they can no longer defend it they will no longer own it. That must never happen. Hank On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, John wrote: Hank: useful historic reminder - or new information. I object only to a minor expression you used: ...the territory does not belong to the Arabs... NO TERRITORY belongs to anyone. Just as I cannot Own that 100+ year old oaktree in my garden. People are living on terrains, lately do a dirty job to destroy nature on it, but nature cannot be 'owned' by temporary - yes - as you said (negatively): interlopers. And it cannot solve problems when several (2?)sides repeat one-sided aqrguments instead of working on eliminating the differences for a common good. This is not addressed to the Israeli part only. Alas, there is no ARAB forum to say it to them as well. Then there is the question of survival... John From: adar To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 6:54 AM Subject: [PNEWS-L] New Arab Nations And it was not unique in history nor in that time to create nations where before there were none. More than 20 Arab countries were then, in that time after the Turkish defeat, also created by the UN. But Muslims turned down the offer of a division of territory so there could be two states, one Palestinian and one Jewish because that would have meant Jews would be sovereign in an area which they all considered their pan-Arabia. When Jews were expelled with the War of Independence, it was Jordan who captured and held the West Bank for 19 years and it was Egypt which captured and held on to Gaza. And Egypt and Jordan didn't want those territories back when Israel offered it after the war of 67. Arab states wanted to keep the occupied territories in limbo so they could continue to use it as a political propaganda weapon against Israel, which they have very effectively done. Just as with the refugee issue, the territories are greater value as propaganda than it would have been for Egypt and Jordan to take it back. Arabs who live there were never a government with rights of sovereignty. The territories never belonged to anyone during the time the British held them under the Mandate to administer the territory and following the Ottoman defeat in WWI - not until Jordan and Egypt held the territories and now Israel must decide what to do with it, as it has done recently with Gaza. Israel is not as an interloper, and the territory does
[PNEWS-L] What Occupation?
The Israelis have very good title and should annex the territory, or disengage from that part they do not want and keep the rest by erecting a wall around Israel and keeping hostile Arabs out. Israel entered the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the 1967 Six-Day War. Israeli legal experts traditionally resisted efforts to define the West Bank and Gaza Strip as occupied or falling under the main international treaties dealing with military occupation. Former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court Meir Shamgar wrote in the 1970s that there is no de jure applicability of the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention regarding occupied territories to the case of the West Bank and Gaza Strip since the Convention is based on the assumption that there had been a sovereign who was ousted and that he had been a legitimate sovereign. In fact, prior to 1967, Jordan had occupied the West Bank and Egypt had occupied the Gaza Strip; their presence in those territories was the result of their illegal invasion in 1948, in defiance of the UN Security Council. Jordan's 1950 annexation of the West Bank was recognized only by Great Britain (excluding the annexation of Jerusalem) and Pakistan, and rejected by the vast majority of the international community, including the Arab states. At Jordan's insistence, the 1949 Armistice Line, that constituted the Israeli-Jordanian boundary until 1967, was not a recognized international border but only a line separating armies. The Armistice Agreement specifically stated: no provision of this Agreement shall in any way prejudice the rights, claims, and positions of either Party hereto in the peaceful settlement of the Palestine questions, the provisions of this Agreement being dictated exclusively by military considerations (emphasis added) (Article II.2). As noted above, in many other cases in recent history in which recognized international borders were crossed in armed conflicts and sovereign territory seized, the language of occupation was not used -- even in clear-cut cases of aggression. Yet in the case of the West Bank and Gaza, where no internationally recognized sovereign control previously existed, the stigma of Israel as an occupier has gained currency. Continued: : http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/OcC.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Recompense
Divided We Stand American Jews, Israel, and the Peace Process by Ofira Seliktar; Praeger, 2002 The Meaning of Israel: The Myth and Reality of the Jewish State The voluminous literature on the meaning of Israel for American Jews attests to the complexity of the issue. There is little doubt that, in its essence, the relationship has been construed around the tribal or peoplehood component of identity. For most American Jews the establishment of the state after the trauma of the Holocaust was a manifestation of the continuity of the Jewish people across time and space. As Urofsky put it, it was a partial recompose for the Holocaust, a meaning giving event to what was an utterly cosmological catastrophe. Israelis birth amidst what was seen as a valiant war of independence was also significant. It was perceived as an answer to the historical lack of power and passivity epitomized by the yellow star and the horror of the extermination camps. The new Jew, the Israeli born and raised in freedom. . .would be the hero to whom American Jews could proudly point out, restoring their dignity and self-assurance. The new Israeli Jew was far removed from the ghetto-victim stereotype of the past. This imagery indicated that support for Israel and preoccupation with the Holocaust stemmed from the common root of the beleaguered nature of Jewish existence. Closely related to the symbolic aspects of peoplehood was the very real fact that the new state provided a haven for Jewish refugees from Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and elsewhere. Well before 1948, American Jews, secure in their adopted homeland, demonstrated a philanthropic interest in creating a refuge in Palestine. After the Holocaust, this sentiment was enhanced greatly by the realization that all Jews could face a harsh contingency someday, somewhere. Betraying this self-interest, the new reasoning was that there must be a Jewish homeland, at least for everybody else and, God forbid, us too. The concept of Israel-as-refuge was strongly manifested in American Jewish distaste for Israeli immigrants to the United States. One study found that the latter were treated with a mixture of suspicion, coolness, and even condemnations since they seemed to detract from the almost sacred status of Israel as a refuge. Even without the legacy of the Holocaust, a Jewish state would have appealed to the ethnic-national part of the Jewish identity. It normalized the status of Jews in America and put them on an equal footing with Irish, Italian, or Polish immigrants. Cardin wrote that Israel gave us stature and status and Dershowitz commented that since 1948 Jews were treated as truly first class citizens in a non-Jewish state. This normalization went beyond the nostalgia for a home, a heim, or an ancestral place to visit in lieu of czarist Russia or anti-Semitic Poland, as some sociologists have claimed. Ontologically, it transformed the Jewish condition and gave meaning to what the philosopher Emil Fackenheim called the unauthentic position of the Jews. Continued: http://pnews.org/ArT/FrE/DIV.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Power Lust
The Saudi sheiks have been Wahhabis since they intermarried with the family of a puritanical Muslim scholar, Mohammed ibn Abd al-Wahhab, in 1774. Supported first by Britain and later by the United States, the Saudis captured the Muslim holy cities of Mecca and Medina, easily gaining control of the entire Arabian peninsula. Wherever they ruled, the Wahhabis imposed their medieval code on their hapless subjects, making public spectacles of stoning adulterers to death and maiming thieves, destroying decorated mosques and cemeteries, prohibiting music, sequestering women, and promoting war on infidels. The Saudi sheiks have lavished funds on anti-American and anti-Israeli terrorists-in-training while indoctrinating other Muslims through its worldwide network of religious schools, mosques, newspapers, and presses. Jihad The Wahhabi Taliban in Afghanistan had the blessings of the Saudi royal family and of The Big Three--the bin Laden family, the al Ahmoudi family, and the Mahfouz family--the richest clans in that medieval kingdom. (Khalid bin Mahfouz is bin Ladens brother-in-law, according to the C.I.A.). The desert oligarchs profited from world-wide investments as well as sleazy banking schemes such as the infamous Bank of Credit and Commerce International. Salem bin Laden, Osamas brother, has conducted all his American affairs through James Bath, a Houston crony of the Bush family. Baths former business partner Bill White testified in court that Bath had been a liaison for the C.I.A. In 1979 Bath invested $50,000 in Arbusto, George W. Bushs first business venture. Rumor had it that Bath was acting as Salem bin Ladens representative. In conflicting statements, Bush at first denied ever knowing Bath, then acknowledged his stake in Arbusto and that he was aware Bath represented Saudi interests. (4) In addition to doing aviation business with Saudi sheiks, Bath was part owner of a Houston bank whose chief stockholder was Ghaith Pharaon, who represented the Bank of Commerce and Credit International (BCCI), a criminal global bank with branches in 73 countries. BCCI proceeded to defraud depositors of $10 billion during the 80s, while providing a money laundry conduit for the Medellin drug cartel, Asias major heroin cartel, Manuel Noriega, Saddam Hussein, the C.I.A., and Islamist terrorist organizations worldwide. (5) Big Three wheeler-dealer Khalid bin Mahfouz, one of the largest stockholders in the criminal bank, was indicted when the massive BCCI banking scandal blew apart in the early 1990s. The Saudi royal family placed him under house arrest after discovering that Mahfouz had used the royal bank to channel millions of dollars through fake charities into bin Ladens organizations, but Mahfouz was not so much punished as inconvenienced. (6) Members of the Wahhabist Saudi oligarchy are driven by the sometimes conflicting emotions of power lust and religious fervor. Their support of radical Islamists follows from their ambition to dominate the Muslim world, but their fear that radical Islamists might overthrow the Saudi regime at home motivates them to fund and encourage holy warriors in countries other than their own. MORE: http://pnews.org/ArT/Xray/BSaud.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Bird Flu May Be Linked to Fish Farming
Bird flu may be spread by using chicken dung as feed in fish farms, a practice now routine in Asia, the world's leading bird conservation organisation believes. Fertilising fish ponds with poultry faeces, which can dramatically improve fish growth, may in fact set up major new reservoirs of avian influenza infection if the chickens providing the manure are infected themselves, according to BirdLife International, the Cambridge-based umbrella body for bird protection groups in more than 100 countries. The suggestion, which has echoes of the BSE problem in Britain, in which cattle were infected by organic feed, is an explosive one, on an international scale. It puts a serious question mark over a technique firmly backed by the UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) as a primary means of providing protein for mushrooming populations in the developing countries - suggesting that millions of people, instead of being helped by it, might ultimately die because of it, in a global pandemic. Known as integrated livestock-fish farming, the technique involves transferring the wastes from raising pigs, ducks or chickens directly to fish farms, with chicken or duck sheds sometimes sited directly over the fish ponds themselves. At the right dosage, the nutrients in the manure give an enormous boost to the growth of plankton in the ponds, which are the main food of fish such as carp and tilapia. This is taking place on an enormous scale. According to an FAO report from two years ago, it is now the main basis for aquaculture in China and neighbouring countries. Livestock wastes purposely used in ponds, or draining into them, support the production of most cultured fish in Asia, the report said. Much of the vast increase in China's recent inland aquaculture production is linked to organic fertilisation, provided by the equally dramatic growth of poultry and pig production. BirdLife International is now calling for an investigation into the possibility that these thousands of manure-fed ponds across Asia may be the means by which the new, potentially deadly strain of avian influenza, H5N1, is being spread. BirdLife points out that outbreaks of H5N1 have occurred this year at locations in China, Romania and Croatia where there are fish farms. The Chinese outbreak, which involved a big die-off of 6000 wild birds, mainly bar-headed geese, took place in May this year at Qinghai Lake, a location where the FAO helped establish an integrated livestock-fish farm in the early 1990s, BirdLife said. This outbreak helped lead to the widespread media speculation about wild birds spreading H5N1, said BirdLife's Richard Thomas. We pointed out that bar-headed geese migrate from India, where H5N1 has never occurred, and migrate early, so they must have contracted the disease locally, at Qinghai. BirdLife does not think that wild birds are vectors - carriers - of H5N1, and believes that the widespread speculation during the autumn that migratory birds would spread bird flu from Asia far and wide into Europe was entirely misplaced. Millions of birds have now migrated, and it hasn't happened, said BirdLife's Director and Chief Executive, Dr Michael Rands. Wild birds are victims, not vectors, of avian influenza. We believe that when wild birds get it, they're very susceptible, and die before they can move very far. Some fall over straight away. Although no mention was been made of the possible links between manure-fed ponds and influenza in the recent alarm over bird flu, it has been raised before, and the FAO, although actively promoting the technique, is well aware of the threat. A FAO report from 2003, Integrated Livestock-Fish Farming Systems, noted: Recently, livestock and fish have been implicated in the irregular occurrence of influenza pandemics; the global impacts on public health of promoting livestock and fish integration are huge if these claims are substantiated. Continued: http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/AnDy.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Coverup in Seven Minutes
What he did was to wait seven minutes while the Pet Goat was being read to elementary students and another 20 minutes before deciding to leave the school. (But, you all know the story by now) George knew what was coming. It was a coverup. Bush Coverup of 9/11 has unraveled. The NY Times reported that President Bush was told more than a month before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, that supporters of Osama bin Laden planned an attack within the United States with explosives and wanted to hijack airplanes. This has been confirmed by a government official - and the 9/11 Commission continued to act like the bipartisan committee it is, protecting the interests of the two major parties but falling short of it's mandate to demand the truth about 9/11. The families of 9/11 victims were dismayed during the commission hearings when Rice hop scotched around questions put to her about the daily briefings. They gasped when Rice disclosed that it was five weeks before the attack on the U.S. when President Bush got a secret CIA briefing titled Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States. Bush wasn't surprised anymore than he was when they struck. It was the reason he and his gang of war criminals had been waiting for to attack Afghanistan and Iraq. New World Order of State Lawlessness From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go. (Paul O'Neill) Iraq is a a grave and gathering danger. (George W. Bush) But the risk of doing nothing, the risk of the security of this country being jeopardized at the hands of a madman with weapons of mass destruction far exceeds the risks of any action we may be forced to take. Source: President Meets with National Economic Council, White House (President George W. Bush - 2/25/2003). In the 23 months I was there, I never saw anything that I would characterize as evidence of weapons of mass destruction. There were allegations and assertions by people... I never saw anything in the intelligence that I would characterize as real evidence. Whistle-blower, and former Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neill, who also served Reagan, Ford, Nixon and George H.W. Bush, told Time magazine (January 10, 2004) From the start, we were building the case against Hussein and looking at how we could take him out and change Iraq into a new country... It was about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying, `Fine. Go find me a way to do this' (O'Neill) More: http://pnews.org/ArT/Xray/BPet.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Israel Genetic Information Technology
Genetic Information Technology As molecular computing devices we are much more efficient than the most efficient machanical/electronic computers. There is research and advancement being made, much of it originating in Israel to create molecular DNA computing systems, and I have no doubt they will be sucessful. Some of the finest scientists in the world are in Israel. Some of these will have medical applications which will greatly alleviate suffering. Electronic computers didn't start that way. I remember the early systems were largely mechanical and I worked directly with systems which used tubes before there were solid state and computer chips. We have come far in a short period of time not only toward understanding what makes the mind work, but everything else, and a theory for almost everything, with the help of computers and new theories in science, building blocks of knowledge, each building upon the other with the help of our computing machines. Who would have ever even considered the concept of string and chaos theory a decade ago? When I took the test for my first ham radio license in 1955 who imagined then that we would now be communicating using satellites and portable cell phones. I certainly didn't. When I worked in the White House as voice security cryptologist who could guess that those mechanical wheel devices we used then in the 50s and 60s would today be computers which are infinitely faster and more efficient than anything I ever imagined. Who would imagine that those punch cards I used to program IBM mainframe computers would disappear and desktop computers with thousands of times the computing power would replace them? I would not have guessed it. Imagine Molecular Computing I don't have to imagine molecular computing because they are here now. Electronic media uses discrete, digital data storage on magnetic discs, magnetic tape, punched cards, and integrated into fixed storage on chips and represented as O's and 1's (or on and off states), but as advanced as that may be now it is far from what can be achieved using chemicals which polymerizes (that is, joining itself) into long chains (and folding itself) of infinite length. Because the living system's polymerizing (starch and cellulose into polymerize sugars as an example) polymer chains in information technology becomes more than just a theoretical possiblity; it becomes the obvious next stage in computing development. Scientific knowledge has taken a giant leap forward. We now understand that evolution is not necessarily efficient or progressive. Evolution is not enlightened development nor is it divine development. Evolution is simply a mutation selected by our own evironment as the best adaptation - which leads to a variation and knowing that we have the opportunity to improve on nature by improving quality of life. We can reduce pain. We can eliminate disease. We can feed the hungry. We can better manage our resources. We have that knowledge. We have the science and we are discovering the knowledge. We can use of fetal stem cells to repair physical defects, cancer, to cure diseases and to avoid them. With living CELLS, the polymers are called polynucleotides and are DNA and RNA (for short), both heterogeneous chains with four states (not simply the two-state on and off, or 1's and O's, in existing electronic computing devices). Instead of the two state-binary of 1 and O we have in living cells FOUR states, represented as A,T,C and G and information capacity is so great that single human cells can store Encyclopaedia Britanica in all of it's 30 volumes many times over. A simple amoeba can store in it's DNA 1,000 Encyclopaedia Britannicas. As a baby grows in the living system, the four-state pattern represented at A,T,C, and G nucleotides is copied into DNA for each and every one of the trillions of new cells which are made - and it is amazingly accurate (DNA is arranged along chromosomes and each is like a computer ROM - read only memory). And with species which diverged from common ancestors, and all species did so at some point, we all have the same genetic coding. Large chuncks of code in more closely related species, like chimps and humans, are exactly the same. The rapidity with which we are now acquiring knowledge is nothing like anything ever experienced before. Yet we are still so dumb that we cannot manage life to do no harm and improve the life of humans and other species. We are so insensitive to suffering that we can go on with our own lives while 5,000,000 children die each and every year from hunger. HankRoth Continued at: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/GIT.shtml
Re: [PNEWS-L] Plan
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1 Creating an income cap would give the US more money to make better friends with other countries. 2 Industrialize peaceful nations. For really underdeveloped nations you may need a team of mental health professionals. 3 Following that a world wide currency would help. Warring countries need to compromise with capitalism and or trade. 4 As far as Israel and Palistine are concerned if they are going to refuse to compromise and act like children let them use the holy land as a time share and treat them like children. Yes I'm actually suggestion they use that land one group for one year and the other group the next year and so on. --Sorry for formatting and words made maybe ofthe same numbers but I'm doing this on my phone. Jaze Yes, you are right, you are not formatting your text. As for sharing the land, you seem to misunderstand that too. There is no Palestine. There is Isreal. Israel is a fact. Isreal is at war with Arabs. They have never acknowledged Israel's right to exist and they have vowed to push Israel into the sea, which will not happen. That is why Israel must remain stronger than the Muslims which overwhelmingly surround the little State of Israel. As to calling them children, that is insulting and wrong headed. It simply does not jel with the facts. It is really retarded to offer a view that is so skewed and misinformed. Hank Roth
[PNEWS-L] Antisemites Arguing Against Jewish Life in Israel
The abandonment of Gaza plays into the hands of the Jew-haters. It reinforces the notion that any Jewish presence is intolerable on land the Arabs claim for themselves, and if that is an argument against Jewish life in Gaza, it is also an argument against Jewish life in Israel. (Jacoby, Jeff - Boston Globe) Palestinian Identity a Tactical Manoeuvre ...there are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese We are one people. Only for political reasons do we carefully underline Palestinian identity. For it is of national interest for the Arabs to encourage the existence of the Palestinians against Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to continue the fight against Zionism and for Arab unity. (Quote from Zuhayr Muhsin): Sec-Gen of Sa'iqa (from 1971 to 1979). And he was head of the military department of the PLO-EC. He famously declared that the assertion of Palestinian identity was just a tactical manoeuvre in the struggle (Mar 77 interview). His family's house in Tulkarm was picketed after he gave support to Syria in 1976 Lebanon clashes with Palestinians and he was assassinated in Cannes on 15Jul 79. Pressuring Israel to Get Out of Israel Continued at: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/GaZA.shtml
[PNEWS-L] No Palestinians - for John
John: This was posted once already today. ...there are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese We are one people. Only for political reasons do we carefully underline Palestinian identity. For it is of national interest for the Arabs to encourage the existence of the Palestinians against Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to continue the fight against Zionism and for Arab unity. (Quote from Zuhayr Muhsin): Sec-Gen of Sa'iqa (from 1971 to 1979). And he was head of the military department of the PLO-EC. He famously declared that the assertion of Palestinian identity was just a tactical manoeuvre in the struggle (Mar 77 interview). His family's house in Tulkarm was picketed after he gave support to Syria in 1976 Lebanon clashes with Palestinians and he was assassinated in Cannes on 15Jul 79. Hank
Re: [PNEWS-L] Palestinians to Amyh
Sorry John, there is no ethnic taxonomy for Palestinians. They are Arabs. Hank On Wed, 11 Jul 2007, John wrote: Facilitator: Is there a Kurdistan? do people call themselves Kurds? (I did not mention Beludjistan, I don't know about Beludjis-) Geographical names - even misnomers are not restricted by political terms and people call themselves as they wish I don't argue Palestine, I argue your argument in unfounded cases which may shake up your credibility in well founded cases as well John - Original Message - From: Amy Hendrickson To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [PNEWS-L] Palestinians to Amyh [Facilitator's Note: As a courtesy, the fact is, there is NO Palestine. There never was a Palestinian state. They can call themselves Martians if they like but that doesn't make it so. Hank Roth] The people themselves call themselves Palestinian. They have elected a Palestinian Parliament. There is world wide activism to support Palestinians. You are clinging to a myth that is no longer believed, Laine - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 11:14 PM Subject: [PNEWS-L] Palestinians to Amyh Again with the Palestinians? If you tell a lie long enough folks will believe it! Arabs ain't Palestinians. It's a myth started by Yasser Arafat and his terror gang. The United Nations condenmed Israel dozens of times, but never arab terrorists,or any other terrorists around the world. ~Lainie~ ~*Lainie~*The StarGazer*~ My Astronomy Website: http://community.webtv.net/LAINIE121/doc http://community.webtv.net/LAINIE121/WONDERSOFTHEWORLD [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[PNEWS-L] Biological Inheritance
Born in Violence America was born in violence and in terrorism. Terrorism is part of our nature and it seems to be inherently part of civilization or more appropriately stated terrorism is embedded in the American psyche just as it is also imprinted in the psyche of this so-called humanity of ours. But, it is not unique just to Americans. What others see in us, they also see in themselves. And it must frighten them because they don't have to look further than their own history to see what is in us is in them also. Whether instinctual or learned, historically the aggressive nature of Homo sapiens has been an ingredient of human nature since the beginning of time (of our species) on the planet. ** What we have done to others is not exclusively American. That which seems to enable so many to simply go along with oppression and even luxuriate in it and too often become willing participants is more than just a throwback to the rough and tumble days of the old west or pioneering spirit which motivated us early on. I think it is the human response when our species has the power to impose its will on others. Germans were willing Nazis when they were empowered to do those terrible things by Hitler. And Americans massacred Indians with the same ease that they killed Iraqis in both Gulf wars. None of this behavior is new; it is repeated often in the history of the world. There has never been a time of enduring peace. There has only been those times when one side or another is so strong (or strong enough) to deter the other side(s) from aggression. It is peace, not war, that is the unnatural condition. Continued: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/FaIO.shtml
[PNEWS-L] U.S. is Science Illiterate
Evolution is accepted by the most people and practically all scientists as much as theories can become fact when there is enough probability for it to be so and no other theory yet exists that would contradict it - so most of us accept that Charles was right and we are distant relatives of Lizards and more recent relatives of chimpanzees. BUT, the United States is Science Illiterate. As reported in The New York Times, August 15, 2006: Did Humans Evolve? Not Us, Say Americans In surveys conducted in 2005, people in the United States and 32 European countries were asked whether to respond true, false or not sure to this statement: Human beings, as we know them, developed from earlier species of animals. The same question was posed to Japanese adults in 2001. The United States had the second-highest percentage of adults who said the statement was false and the second-lowest percentage who said the statement was true, researchers reported in the current issue of Science. Only adults in Turkey expressed more doubts on evolution. In Iceland, 85 percent agreed with the statement. Continued: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/EvO.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Jewish State as a Safe Refuge for Jews
Zionism is the Jewish will to live honorably in our times in August 1897, Theodor Herzl stepped out on the platform of the Municipal Casino in Basel, Switzerland, to launch the First Zionist Congress and the Zionist movement whose centenary is being marked this year. A year earlier, Herzl had published his Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State), in which he argued that anti-Semitism in the Diaspora could be eradicated only with the eradication of the Diaspora itself. (Hillel Halkin, After Zionism: reflections on Israel and the Diaspora, 06-01-1997-Commentary Mag) And some of those who saw the Jewish State as a safe refuge for Jews were also prepared to give up part of it in order to establish a state, though some consider all of it as integral to the re-establishment of the Jewish National homeland. There is still a tension between those who feel that not an inch should be relinquished. Dr. Anita Shapira writes: In the evolution of a national liberation movement, there comes a juncture; a transition from the realm of dreams, ideals, propaganda, and sermonizing to the arena of political action... (Anita Shapira, 1996, NY University Press, Essential Papers on Zionism) By the end of the Mandate in 1948, the Jewish population in Palestine had burgeoned to 650,000 out of a total of 1,300,000 inhabitants. The geographical pattern of Jewish population dispersion made it possible to conceive setting up two separate states in the western parts of Palestine--one Jewish, the other Arab. (Shapira) Continued: : http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/DerJuden.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Bush, Father and Son, Butchers of Lives
Coveting Their Things (like OIL) When the first George Bush, who was just as much a butcher of lives and war criminal as his son, ordered the bombing of Baghdad it was not because Saddam Hussein persecuted his people and it wasn't because Hussein invaded Kuwait which Iraqis have always considered part of Iraq and was carved up by the British for colonial and political reasons. It was because George Bush was aware of the peak of oil and depletion and Iraq has oil. With oil running out because there is a finite amount of it left we may not have to worry so much about man-made global warming from burning fossil fuel, if there is no fossil fuel to burn (whatever happens first). If the predictions are correct global warming will become much worse before all the oil is gone. We're running out of oil but we're also running out of water. Global warming is drying up whole regions where before there was plush vegetation. There will be catastrophic consequences for impoverished populations. We use more oil than the U.S. can continue to extract. And for that reason Iraq is important to George HW Bush and George W. Bush. They would say it is important to U.S. national security. It is thought that there are oil reserves off the coast of North Korea which makes that area also interesting to the U.S. New oil is cheaper to extract but as we use it up it gets harder to get out of the ground and becomes more expensive so there is always a need to find more oil and control the oil that is already being extracted. Continued: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/CoveT.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Israel Institute Produces New Protein Control Switch
19.06.2007 WEIZMANN INSTITUTE SCIENTISTS DEVELOP A GENERAL CONTROL SWITCH FOR PROTEIN ACTIVITY The method may be used in biomedical research, and in the future in gene therapy and in genetic engineering of plants Our bodies could not maintain their existence without thousands of proteins performing myriad vital tasks within cells. Since malfunctioning proteins can cause disease, the study of protein structure and function can lead to the development of drugs and treatments for numerous disorders. For example, the discovery of insulins role in diabetes paved the way for the development of a treatment based on insulin injections. Yet, despite enormous research efforts led by scientists worldwide, the cellular function of numerous proteins is still unknown. To reveal this function, scientists perform various genetic manipulations to increase or, conversely, decrease the production of a certain protein, but existing manipulations of this sort are complicated and do not fully meet the researchers needs. Prof. Moti Liscovitch and graduate student Oran Erster of the Weizmann Institutes Biological Regulation Department, together with Dr. Miri Eisenstein of Chemical Research Support, have recently developed a unique 'switch' that can control the activity of any protein, raising it several-fold, or stopping it almost completely. The method provides researchers with a simple and effective tool for exploring the function of unknown proteins, and in the future the new technique may find many additional uses. The 'switch' has a genetic component and a chemical component: using genetic engineering, the scientists insert a short segment of amino acids into the amino acid sequence making up the protein. This segment is capable of binding strongly and selectively to a particular chemical drug, which affects the activity level of the engineered protein increasing or reducing it. When the drug is no longer applied, or when it is removed from the system, the protein returns to its natural activity level. As reported recently in the journal Nature Methods, the first stage of the method consists of preparing a set of genetically engineered proteins (called a 'library' in scientific language) with the amino acid segment inserted in different places. In the second stage, the engineered proteins are screened to identify the ones that respond to the drug in a desired manner. The researchers have discovered that in some of the engineered proteins, the drug increased the activity level, while in others this activity was reduced. Says Prof. Liscovitch: 'We were surprised by the effectiveness of the method it turns out that a small set of engineered proteins is needed to find the ones that respond to the drug. With their greater resources, biotechnology companies will be able to create much larger sets of engineered proteins in order to find one that best meets their needs.' The method developed by the Weizmann Institute scientists is ready for immediate use, both in basic biomedical research and in the pharmaceutical industry, in the search for proteins that can serve as targets for new drugs. Beyond offering a potent tool that can be applied to any protein, the method has an important advantage compared with other techniques: It allows the total and precise control over the activity of an engineered protein. Such activity can be brought to a desired level or returned to its natural level, at specific locations in the body and at specific times all this by giving exact and well-timed doses of the same simple drug. In addition, the method could be used one day in gene therapy. It may be possible to replace damaged proteins that cause severe diseases with genetically engineered proteins, and to control these proteins activity levels in a precise manner by giving appropriate doses of the drug. Another potential future application is in agricultural genetic engineering. The method might make it possible, for example, to create genetically engineered plants in which the precise timing of fruit ripening would be controlled using a substance that increases the activity of proteins responsible for ripening. Moreover, numerous proteins are used in industrial processes, as biological sensors and in other applications. The possibility of controlling these applications strengthening or slowing the rate of protein activity in an immediate and reversible manner can be of great value. Prof. Mordechai Liscovitch's research is supported by the Nella and Leon Benoziyo Center for Neurological Diseases; La Fondation Raphael et Regina Levy; and the Estate of Simon Pupko, Mexico. Prof. Liscovitch is the incumbent of the Harold L. Korda Professorial Chair of Biology. The Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel, is one of the world's top-ranking multidisciplinary research institutions. Noted for its wide-ranging exploration of the natural and exact sciences, the
Re: [PNEWS-L] U.S. is Science Illiterate
Good work. Hope that it works. But I think we need social changes which will bring about the motivation to study. The science is there and so is the educational opportunities. Look, Princeton, Berkeley, and I can't remember the rest, but at least a half dozen schools now put almost all their courses online with FREE podcasts of their lectures. Who doesn't have the opportunity, those with computers, if they just get them off MySpace and on those sites where they can get the highest and best use to improve their knowledge. A little bit of knowledge in this case may stimulate a lot more knowledge. Perhaps the curriculum in high schools should include the requirement that their students spend some time on those sites but if they're like me they would read what they wanted to so it seems for some at least you would need to stimulate the thirst for the knowledge and the need and they would have to do the rest. What is your project doing to stimulate that kind of motivation? Hank On Wed, 11 Jul 2007, Walt Owen wrote: The fact that we have a massive science illiteracy problem is why the AAAS and the NAS started working together to form Project 2061, a long-range project, the goal of which is to have each and every American become science literate by the return of Comet Halley. I am part of the organization, and we are working hard to develop science curricula that will meet the goal. Here's hoping the political and social climate in this country will change to the point that we can meet this goal. Cheers! Walt Well, I won't argue that it was a no-holds-barred, adrenaline-fueled thrill ride, but there's no way you could perpetrate that amount of carnage and mayhem and not incur a considerable amount of paperwork. -Police Sergeant Nicolas Angel, Sanford Police, Gloucestershire - Original Message - From: adar To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:45 PM Subject: [PNEWS-L] U.S. is Science Illiterate Evolution is accepted by the most people and practically all scientists as much as theories can become fact when there is enough probability for it to be so and no other theory yet exists that would contradict it - so most of us accept that Charles was right and we are distant relatives of Lizards and more recent relatives of chimpanzees. BUT, the United States is Science Illiterate. As reported in The New York Times, August 15, 2006: Did Humans Evolve? Not Us, Say Americans In surveys conducted in 2005, people in the United States and 32 European countries were asked whether to respond true, false or not sure to this statement: Human beings, as we know them, developed from earlier species of animals. The same question was posed to Japanese adults in 2001. The United States had the second-highest percentage of adults who said the statement was false and the second-lowest percentage who said the statement was true, researchers reported in the current issue of Science. Only adults in Turkey expressed more doubts on evolution. In Iceland, 85 percent agreed with the statement. Continued: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/EvO.shtml [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [PNEWS-L] RE: Comments to a Friend
It is not a conspiracy, it is business as usual, Atwater style - only worse and more refined. Every BUSH election has been manipulated. It was out in the open. There was no secret cabal to arrange the take over. It was not that devious, not did it need to be. Caging along was enough to throw the elections to Bush. The rest was easy. Put your supporters, as promised, in positions where they could manipulate the polices and you have what they have been trying to do since Roosevelt to turn back social progress in America. Reagan tried it with the same people and it did a lot of damage and Clinton also moved the country toward conservative policies which would have to make one ask if he was really a Democrat and Bush, junior, brought back all of Reagan's lieutenants including the head of that vanguard, Dick Chaney, to finish the right wing line of march. It doesn't have to be an obvious conspiracy to be a plan and it is as dangerous as Laine suggests it is. I think perhaps worse. Hank On Fri, 13 Jul 2007, razldazl wrote: If everything is such a controlled, monocausal conspiracy? why would 'he,' need to 'rig the elections again?' That is a completely illogical and irrational assertion? Your rant is full of holes, internally inconsistent and self-contradictory. Pius pap, conspiratorial hype, meaningless diffusion of irrational venom. Best stick to rescuing chooks love; that sounds more your forte. Bush is just one individual. What do you know of the man's actual political beliefs, ethics and internal psychological conflicts and struggles; other than the one-dimensional celluloid projections you obviously gorge upon? Let's argue hypothetically? that 'Bush' was at core a secularist? or a Marxist? an animal Liberationist even? What could this one man alone archive in a world inundated and dominated by frenzied, flesh-feeding, religious Borg? Be specific. How could this one man rise to the American presidency without a bible under arm, or mouthing religious platitudes? Be specific. As to SCOTUS? wasn't Bush's last preference Harriet Myers (sp?) a more 'liberal' and 'secular' candidate than the far Right conservative Catholic appointed later? Try a little thought, question those thoughts, self-reflect; before you leap into the void. Razz Lindy Greene wrote: We are living in perilous times, indeed. Bush has only another - what? - year and a half? He's going to have to pull off something big again. He tried to get rid of Presidential term limits - but that failed. He wouldn't be re-elected at this point, anyway. He's got a 70% disapproval rating. (But he could always rig the elections again.) The American public still doesn't see what he's about - it's just tired of the war. He's committing genocide in Iraq and torturing prisoners of war. He's suspended habeas corpus (although that's been done before). He's engaging in warrantless spying on American citizens. Do not fly into or out of LAX until this psychopath is gone. Then again, as you say, they all visit the same toilet. I don't think it will matter even if he does step down. Whoever takes over next will fall in - either willingly or forcibly - with the scheme to take over the government. They admit to 100,000 Iraqi civilian deaths. The Iraqis claim the true number is 600,000 - 700,000. Imagine the President of the United States colluding in the taking down of the Twin Towers! (He's not smart enough to have masterminded it himself - but he was complicit.) Those buildings came down by controlled demolition. I am no engineer, but I know a pull when I see one. How do you get so many people to go along with something like that? No investigation into the many questions raised - they sealed the 9-11 Commission Report. Did he somehow manage to get the word out that no one had better f*ck with him? Is that what You're either with us or against us was about? Was the hidden message, I can have you declared an 'enemy combatant' and sent to Guantanamo Bay for torture? I feel about politics like I do about the universe. I can see that something mighty big is going on, and I can ask the questions - but I don't have the answers. And it's utterly baffling as to how it can be pulled off without someone leaking the information beforehand - or at least investigating it afterwards. I don't know how you can get the Congress and the Supreme Court behind it - or, if not behind it, to fail to inquire into it. It's mind-boggling. I just see the tip of the iceberg - the rest of it is hidden from view and beyond my comprehension. In order to get people to accept a dictatorship, you have to make them really frightened - and that's what the terrorism is meant to achieve. Look at the attacks in London. How is it that they're always discovered and intercepted? People who are supposedly clever enough to take down the Twin Towers can't pull off a car bombing without being caught? Sh*t - the
Re: [PNEWS-L] Animation on Central Dogma
Yes Thomas, but that anti-Feminist science establishment in academia credited two white men, Crick and Watson, while ignorning the real heroINE, the Jewish women scientist who figured it out before they did. Do you remember her name? How many do? Hank On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, loyolite112000 wrote: The central dogma of molecular biology was first enunciated by Francis Crick in 1958 and re-stated in a Nature paper published in 1970.The central dogma of molecular biology deals with the detailed residue-by-residue transfer of sequential information. It states that such information cannot be transferred back from protein to either protein or nucleic acid. http://bioisolutions.blogspot.com/2007/07/central-dogma.html or http://tinyurl.com/37qhfm regards Thomas
[PNEWS-L] The Plan to Conquer Iraq's Oil
Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill collaborated with writer Ron Suskind (former Wall Street Journal reporter), who interviewed hundreds of people and had access to 1,900 internal documents, about the Bush White House is called: The Price of Loyalty. He was fired by George Bush for his disagreement with Bush's tax cuts. As treasury secretary, O'Neill was a permanent member of the National Security Council. In the book, O'Neill says that the president did not make decisions in a methodical way: there was no free-flow of ideas or open debate. At cabinet meetings, he says the president was like a blind man in a roomful of deaf people. There is no discernible connection, forcing top officials to act on little more than hunches about what the president might think. (CBS - Bush Sought `Way' To Invade Iraq? - March 22, 2004) O'Neill says when he had one-on-one meetings with the president, he would talk and the president would sit and presumably be listening. (Maybe he was listening to the voices in his head or thinking about another shot of JB?) While that other conservative, Ronald Reagan would at times sleep in cabinet meetings, it appears as if George W. Bush was disengaged and inattentive, especially on domestic issues. He says his meetings with the president were mostly a monologue of him talking. This is not the first president Paul O'Neill worked for so George Bush's style and attitude bothered him. He that President Bush was disengaged, at least on domestic issues, and that disturbed him. And what happened at President Bush's very first National Security Council meeting is one of O'Neill's most startling revelations. From the very beginning, there was a conviction, that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go, says O'Neill, who adds that going after Saddam was topic A 10 days after the inauguration - eight months before Sept. 11. (CBS) O'Neill says from the very beginning it was all about Iraq. O'Neill said that questions -- such as, Why Saddam? and Why now? were never asked. It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying Go find me a way to do this.. (O'Neill) Everyone acknowledges that the unilateralism of pre-emption was a giant leap from previous policy, but 9/11 was the Pearl Harbor the neocons were waiting for to carry out their plans to conquer Iraq. Continued: More: http://pnews.org/ArT/Xray/BPet.shtml
[PNEWS-L] A Right Wing Virtue of Greed
What is so prevalent on the right is this selling of The Virtue of Greed, from a book by the same name by Walter Williams, an economics professor at George Mason University, who promotes the idea that greed is a virtue (what the right has been saying, at least since the Reagan era), and greed is good, because it is the economic engine which provides human motivation for economic development and growth. The right believes greed is an important consistency in human behavior. John Schumaker in The New Internationalist says even more liberal economist, Lester Thurlow, in his essay entitled 'Market Crash Born of Greed', holds that `altruism does not seem to be congruent with the way human beings are constructed. No one has been able to construct a society where communal altruism dominates individual greed.' So greed wins out over altruism. Well, maybe it does. Maybe he is right. Maybe greed is a stronger human instinct although biological behaviorists would argue than altruism. But, to briefly reiterate the one main argument (for all the side issues for altruism see the Crypt - http://inyourface.info/crypt/) for altruism, is insuring that genes survive the reproduction process to maintain continuity of DNA. But does greed also affect reproduction? It does if the rich survive to a greater extent - and we know they do. Their health care is better and more accessible; they eat better and the rich have no need to bulk up on carbohydrates (which is filling and cheap so the poor get fatter). I frankly don't know how to best make this evolutionary frame about altruism but I don't think that should be the main argument. We can do better about greed because we're human. Our brain is the edge. We have cognition which can change the environment when we do not have the evolutionary time to mutate and change ourselves to insure fitness for reproduction. Our brain power to do what is right can out rank our more basic instincts like greed (if greed is a more potent force than altruism, and I'm not convinced it is). And that is what makes us human. And that is why we have a chance at change. And that is why we can have hope. .g0lem Hank Roth MORE: http://pnews.org/ArT/YuR/AGre.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Can We Change the World?
Though few realized it until later, Goodalls' anthropomorphism had driven a stake through the heart of human exceptionalism. Apes were revealed not as blundering, primitive automatons, who were bad at being people, but as beings with social lives as complex and subtle as ours. Either human beings must be more instinctive, or animals must be more conscious than we had previously suspected. The similarities, not the differences, were what caught the attention. (Mark Ridley, an evolutionary biologist who works in the Department of Zoology, Oxford University.) ...Yes, of course, it would be perverse to argue that people are no different from apes. The truth is that we are different. We are more capable than any other animal of self-awareness, of calculation, and of altering our surroundings. (Ridley) And that is what sets us apart, and also the awareness that some of us have that we are ALL equally entitled to what we define for ourselves as a good life. Elitist social engineers (and my brother) who think in terms of economic class being equal to rights and material enrichment are stealing from the rest of us. Nation states guarantee the rights of the rich and insure the disparity among the poor. An egalitarian system hasn't worked because just as surely as there are selfish genes which are natural protoplasmic replicators and memes which are cultural replicators and there is nothing natural about altruism, socialism can not defeat greed and selfishness. Knowing what is right and doing what is right are at opposite ends of life's spectrum. MORE http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/HmI.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Who may Become a Citizen of Israel? Anyone....
Who may Become a Citizen of Israel? Anyone == Israeli 1 (n) a native or inhabitant of Israel 2. (adj) of or relating to or characteristic of Israel or its people. Israel?s Nationality Law relates to persons born in Israel or resident therein, as well as to those wishing to settle in the country, regardless of race, religion, creed, sex or political belief. Citizenship may be acquired by: ?Birth ?The Law of Return ?Residence ?Naturalisation Acquisition of nationality by birth is granted to: 1. Persons who were born in Israel to a mother or a father who is an Israeli citizes. 2. Persons born outside Israel, if their father or mother holds Israeli citizenship, acquired either by birth in Israel, according to the Law of Return, by residence, or by naturalisation. 3. Persons born after the death of one of their parents, if the late parent was an Israeli citizen by virtue of the conditions enumerated in 1. and 2. above at the time of death. 4. Persons born in Israel, who have never had any nationality and subject to limitations specified in the law, if they: o apply for it in the period between their 18th and 25th birthday and o have been residents of Israel for five consecutive years, immediately preceding the day of the filing of their application. Acquisition of Nationality according to the Law of Return On the establishment of the state, its founders proclaimed ...the renewal of the Jewish State in the Land of Israel, which would open wide the gates of the homeland to every Jew... In pursuance of this tenet, the State of Israel has absorbed survivors of the Holocaust, refugees from the countries in which they had resided, as well as many thousands of Jews who came to settle in Israel of their own volition. The Law of Return (1950) grants every Jew, wherever he may be, the right to come to Israel as an oleh (a Jew immigrating to Israel) and become an Israeli citizen. For the purposes of this Law, Jew means a person who was born of a Jewish mother, or has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion. Israeli citizenship becomes effective on the day of arrival in the country or of receipt of an oleh?s certificate, whichever is later. A person may declare, within three months, that he/she does not wish to become a citizen. An oleh?s certificate may be denied to persons who: 1. engage in activity directed against the Jewish people; 2. may endanger public health or the security of the state; 3. have a criminal past, likely to endanger public welfare. Since 1970, the right to immigrate under this law has been extended to include the child and the grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of the grandchild of a Jew. The purpose of this amendment is to ensure the unity of families, where intermarriage had occurred; it does not apply to persons who had been Jews and had voluntarily changed their religion. Acquisition of Nationality by Residence Special provision is made in the Nationality Law for former citizens of British Mandatory Palestine. Those who remained in Israel from the establishment of the State in 1948 until the enactment of the Nationality Law of 1952, became Israeli citizens by residence or by return. According to an amendment (1980), further possibilities to acquire citizenship by residence were included in the law. Acquisition of Nationality by Naturalisation Adults may acquire Israeli citizenship by naturalisation at the discretion of the Minister of the Interior and subject to a number of requirements, such as: 1. They must have resided in Israel for three years out of the five years preceding the day of submission of the application. 2. They are entitled to reside in Israel permanently and have settled or intend to settle in Israel. 3. They have renounced their prior nationality, or have proved that they will cease to be foreign nationals upon becoming Israeli citizens. -The Minister of the Interior may exempt an applicant from some of these requirements. (Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs)
[PNEWS-L] Support Valarie Plame
To claim that leaking the identity of a covert operative is simply part of the Washington culture suggests a deep disdain for those patriots who risk their lives to protect our national security. Mr. Snow's comment was insulting not just to Valerie Wilson, but to all covert operatives who believe that in return for their sacrifices, our government will do everything it can to protect them. A genuine and sincere apology from the White House -- not just to Mrs. Wilson, but the entire intelligence community -- is long overdue. The president is now implicated in an ongoing cover-up and obstruction of justice, there remains, according to special counsel Fitzgerald, a cloud over the Vice President and Libby is a four time convicted liar, perjurer, and obstructor of justice. The administration once again, regrettably, attacks others rather than accepts responsibility for their actions and crimes. The American people know better. We know the difference between right and wrong even if the president, the vice president and their spokesmen do not. Read more http://www.wilsonsupport.org/
[PNEWS-L] Israeli Apologist and the Goat Lady
I have been called an Israeli apologist by the Goat Lady. But I have been called a worse. In fact I take it as a compliment that I support truth and the Goat Lady is squirming under the weight of evidence in spite of her efforts to defame Israel and all those who seek truth and justice in this conference. It is very sad that she can be disturbed by reality when it conflicts with her fantasies. Hank Roth PNEWS-L (since 1982) progressive news and views which is neither left or right http://pnews.org/bio/
[PNEWS-L] Part (4) - Psycho USS Liberty Conspiratorial Slanders
Part (4) - Psycho USS Liberty Conspiratorial Slanders by Hank Roth (Formerly an operations cryptologist/analyst at the White House for the President of the United States. Also formerly with the Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff in the War Room at the Pentagon. - veteran of Vietnam and Yom Kipper Wars - past Commander Jewish War Veterans Post780) Continued: http://pnews.org/art/ussliberty.shtml On June 7th [my birthday, so I remember it well], it was the third day of the war and the Israeli naval command was under-equipped to defend Israel's shores and dependent on the air force and human observation for long range early warning. It would be an understatement to say, the Navy was fearful and frustrated. because of the tension after the loss of an elite frogman commando unit, which was captured by the Egyptians, and the sightings of three Egyptian submarines close to the Israeli shore. There was also a report of several Soviet vessels in the area. An Israeli Nord aircraft took off from an airfield early on the morning of the 8th with an Israeli navy spotter on board to patrol the shore and insure that enemy vessels did not penetrate Israeli waters during the night before. Israel had to have a human spotter for early warning because Israel in 1967 had very limited radar capability. Almost two hours after the aircraft started its patrol, it notified the duty officer in the navy war room that a ship had been spotted West of Gaza. It appeared to be a destroyer from the air. The officer ordered a red marker placed on the battle control table. Red was the color used to indicate an unidentified ship. Almost 20 minutes later the Nord sent another report in which the spotter identified the ship as an American naval-supply vessel. The ship was identified by the spotter and would have then been considered neutral, but the marker was not changed from red to green, to designate a neutral vessel. The Israelis admitted this. They did not deny it. he reason given by the duty officer at a board of inquiry was the identification had been vague and uncertain. And, then from 6 to 9 a.m. the navy's attention in the war room was diverted to an emergency, with the penetration of an enemy submarine west of the town of Atlit, where a huge oil slick had been sighted. At 8:50 the navy dispatched the destroyer MV Haifa to the area. The Haifa detonated five depth charges at 9:02 without success. While the hunt for the enemy sub was ongoing, Admiral Erell entered the underground war room to take personal command and he questioned the duty officer about the red marker west of the Sinai coast. Told that the marker designated what was thought to be an American supply ship, he ordered the marker changed to green and he concentrated on the submarine. More depth charges were detonated and air bubbles and oil was rising to the surface. At the same time, the war room received a cable from an Israel pilot reporting that he was being shot at by an unidentified ship off the Sinai coast. After he landed and in debriefing he said that he was not fired at, but he had seen a ship and it appeared to be gray and wider than usual, and with a bridge in the middle. The information was filed and forgotten. Then, after 10 a.m. the Nord aircraft returned and in debriefing the navy spotter reported that he had clearly seen a GTR-5 on the side of the vessel. Major Pinchasi at the naval operations room at Naval Headquarters consulted Jane's Fighting Ships and identified the ship as an American intelligence vessel named the Liberty. At 11 a.m. the duty commanders in the navy war room changed shifts and a Lt. Col took over temporary command. He ordered the green marker removed from the battle control table so it would not be cluttered. Standard naval operating procedure dictated that battle control table should be kept as simple as possible, but in retrospect, it was a fatal decision for the Liberty because from 11:05 on the Liberty was no longer a known quantity for those who were operationally responsible for conducting a fast-moving, three-front, war, who were feeling the heat of battle decision making. At 11:24 the air force reported to the naval chief of operation, Col Issy Rehav, that the Sinai coast city of El Arish, captured by Israeli forces the day before was being shelled from the sea. And, at 11:27 a.m., a second, independent report ame in, and this time from Southern Command Hqts, that El Arish was indeed being bombarded from the sea. In his book, Ennis also reported explosions in El Arish. The smoke and explosions were clearly visible to the crew of the Liberty, which is how close they were to what was presumed to be an enemy attack on the coastal city. Later it was determined that an Egyptian ammo depot had exploded in El Arish. The Israeli general command assumed that the city was under attack from the sea and the Liberty just happened to be there, which made it look an awful lot
[PNEWS-L] Part (4) - Psycho USS Liberty Conspiratorial Slanders
Part (4) - Psycho USS Liberty Conspiratorial Slanders by Hank Roth (Formerly an operations cryptologist/analyst at the White House for the President of the United States. Also formerly with the Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff in the War Room at the Pentagon. - veteran of Vietnam and Yom Kipper Wars - past Commander Jewish War Veterans Post780) Continued: http://pnews.org/art/ussliberty.shtml On June 7th [my birthday, so I remember it well], it was the third day of the war and the Israeli naval command was under-equipped to defend Israel's shores and dependent on the air force and human observation for long range early warning. It would be an understatement to say, the Navy was fearful and frustrated. because of the tension after the loss of an elite frogman commando unit, which was captured by the Egyptians, and the sightings of three Egyptian submarines close to the Israeli shore. There was also a report of several Soviet vessels in the area. An Israeli Nord aircraft took off from an airfield early on the morning of the 8th with an Israeli navy spotter on board to patrol the shore and insure that enemy vessels did not penetrate Israeli waters during the night before. Israel had to have a human spotter for early warning because Israel in 1967 had very limited radar capability. Almost two hours after the aircraft started its patrol, it notified the duty officer in the navy war room that a ship had been spotted West of Gaza. It appeared to be a destroyer from the air. The officer ordered a red marker placed on the battle control table. Red was the color used to indicate an unidentified ship. Almost 20 minutes later the Nord sent another report in which the spotter identified the ship as an American naval-supply vessel. The ship was identified by the spotter and would have then been considered neutral, but the marker was not changed from red to green, to designate a neutral vessel. The Israelis admitted this. They did not deny it. he reason given by the duty officer at a board of inquiry was the identification had been vague and uncertain. And, then from 6 to 9 a.m. the navy's attention in the war room was diverted to an emergency, with the penetration of an enemy submarine west of the town of Atlit, where a huge oil slick had been sighted. At 8:50 the navy dispatched the destroyer MV Haifa to the area. The Haifa detonated five depth charges at 9:02 without success. While the hunt for the enemy sub was ongoing, Admiral Erell entered the underground war room to take personal command and he questioned the duty officer about the red marker west of the Sinai coast. Told that the marker designated what was thought to be an American supply ship, he ordered the marker changed to green and he concentrated on the submarine. More depth charges were detonated and air bubbles and oil was rising to the surface. At the same time, the war room received a cable from an Israel pilot reporting that he was being shot at by an unidentified ship off the Sinai coast. After he landed and in debriefing he said that he was not fired at, but he had seen a ship and it appeared to be gray and wider than usual, and with a bridge in the middle. The information was filed and forgotten. Then, after 10 a.m. the Nord aircraft returned and in debriefing the navy spotter reported that he had clearly seen a GTR-5 on the side of the vessel. Major Pinchasi at the naval operations room at Naval Headquarters consulted Jane's Fighting Ships and identified the ship as an American intelligence vessel named the Liberty. At 11 a.m. the duty commanders in the navy war room changed shifts and a Lt. Col took over temporary command. He ordered the green marker removed from the battle control table so it would not be cluttered. Standard naval operating procedure dictated that battle control table should be kept as simple as possible, but in retrospect, it was a fatal decision for the Liberty because from 11:05 on the Liberty was no longer a known quantity for those who were operationally responsible for conducting a fast-moving, three-front, war, who were feeling the heat of battle decision making. At 11:24 the air force reported to the naval chief of operation, Col Issy Rehav, that the Sinai coast city of El Arish, captured by Israeli forces the day before was being shelled from the sea. And, at 11:27 a.m., a second, independent report ame in, and this time from Southern Command Hqts, that El Arish was indeed being bombarded from the sea. In his book, Ennis also reported explosions in El Arish. The smoke and explosions were clearly visible to the crew of the Liberty, which is how close they were to what was presumed to be an enemy attack on the coastal city. Later it was determined that an Egyptian ammo depot had exploded in El Arish. The Israeli general command assumed that the city was under attack from the sea and the Liberty just happened to be there, which made it look an awful lot
[PNEWS-L] Part (7) - Psycho USS Liberty Conspiratorial Slanders
Part (7) - Psycho USS Liberty Conspiratorial Slanders by Hank Roth Continued: http://pnews.org/art/ussliberty.shtml 07/23/2001 The New Republic Michael Oren Unfriendly Fire Michael Oren is a senior fellow at the Shalem Center in Jerusalem. His excellent book on the 1967 Six Day War was published by Oxford University Press in 2002. In 1967, at the height of the Six Day War, Israeli jets strafed and firebombed a seemingly hostile ship near the Sinai coast. Israeli torpedo boats quickly converged to finish the job, then abruptly ceased fire and offered assistance to the battered crew. Israel had attacked the USS Liberty. In all, 34 Americans died, and 171 were injured. Israeli leaders apologized promptly and profusely, explaining that they had mistaken the Liberty for an enemy vessel--an explanation that subsequent investigations in both the United States and Israel upheld. Israel compensated the injured sailors and the families of those killed. And that's where the story should have ended. After all, accidental attacks, though tragic, are common in war. In 1967 alone, friendly fire killed 5,373 Americans fighting in Vietnam. But the controversy over the Liberty attack has endured, generating conspiracy theories, ethnic defamation, and charges of mass homicide. And, although a series of recently declassified documents seem to exonerate the Israelis once and for all, a new book, Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency, has resurrected the canard by setting forth what is arguably the most audacious theory of all: that the Israelis deliberately attacked the Liberty to cover up a massacre of Egyptian prisoners of war. Written by James Bamford, a former ABC News producer, and published by Doubleday, the book has enjoyed a largely respectful, and frequently credulous, reception in the American press. Yet Body of Secrets has no more basis in fact than its predecessors. Indeed, it may be the shoddiest screed of all. The Liberty's fateful voyage began on June 2, 1967, when it set sail from Spain for the Middle East. Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser had just ousted U.N. peacekeepers from the Sinai, blockaded Israeli shipping through the Tiran Straits, and prepared the Arab world for a war of Israel's destruction. A wary White House instructed the Sixth Fleet to stay outside an arc whose radius is 240 miles from [the Egyptian city of] Port Said. But, according to communications recently released by the National Archives, the Liberty's handlers in the National Security Agency ignored the order and directed the ship to a point just outside Egypt's territorial waters, a mere 12.5 miles, where it could eavesdrop on Egyptian officers and their Soviet advisers. Five subsequent cables from the Navy's European headquarters warned the Liberty to pull back to at least 100 miles, but the Navy's overly sophisticated radio system diverted them to the Philippines, and none reached the ship in time. Approaching the battle area at dawn, the Liberty's skipper, Commander William L. McGonagle, requested a destroyer escort, only to be reminded by the commander of the Sixth Fleet that the Liberty is a clearly marked United States ship in international waters ... and not a reasonable subject for attack by any nation. Israel, meanwhile, requested that the United States provide a naval liaison to facilitate its communication with the Navy. Israeli Ambassador Avraham Harman had warned the White House that if war breaks out, we would have no telephone number to call, no code for plane recognition, and no way to get in touch with the U.S. Sixth Fleet. The United States never approved the liaison, nor did it inform Israel of the Liberty's arrival in the area. Although it arrived too late to fulfill its original mission--most of Sinai had already fallen to Israel, so there were no Egyptian troops there to spy on--the Liberty nevertheless began patrolling between Port Said and Gaza, in a lane rarely used by commercial freighters and declared by Egypt as off-limits to neutral shipping. On June 8, just before six o'clock in the morning, an Israeli pilot reported finding a naval craft (gray, bulky, with its bridge amidships) 70 miles west of Gaza. Though he did not report seeing a flag, he made out the hull marking GTR-5, which was enough for Israeli commanders to identify the ship as the USS Liberty and to mark it as a neutral vessel on their control board. But at eleven o'clock in the morning, the watch at Israeli naval headquarters changed. The new officers, following procedures for removing old information and assuming the Liberty had sailed away, cleaned the board. For Israeli forces, the Liberty had ceased to exist. It would prove a key error. Less than a half-hour later, Israeli soldiers in the Sinai coastal town of El Arish heard a violent explosion. The cause was probably a detonation in an ammunition dump, but when the
[PNEWS-L] Part (6) - Psycho USS Liberty Conspiratorial Slanders
Part (6) - Psycho USS Liberty Conspiratorial Slanders by Hank Roth Jay Cristol's book, The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Attack on a U.S. Navy Spy Ship is also worthwhile reading. Thanks to Judge Cristol the new tape evidence was released under the Freedom of Information Act and sheds new light on the incident and further proves Israel's attack on the USS Liberty was not intentional. However, like Judge Cristol says: Those who hate Israel, who hate Jews, and those who believe in conspiracy will not be convinced by anything. USS Liberty Slanders (4) This slander has a life given to it by anti-Israel conspiracy theorists who like the JFK assassination will never accept the facts in this case. Each new revelation from the State Department or NSA is denied by conspiracists. In that respect it isn't much different than the blood libels or ZOG conspiracies. In point of fact it is just another variation on the Jews killed Christ theme. When haven't the Jews been the world's favorite scapegoat? If they can't get these things, they'll invent something else. And you can read about it on the interNUT, in both left and right wing mailing lists and newsgroups. No Coverup Here is a rambling post from a public mailing list: Copying it here is in compliance with every interpretation of the Fair Use Doctrine since the list is available to anyone subscribed to it and also publicly archived in various search engines on the net. Posted under the subject: Marxism] USS Liberty inquiry--the cover-up continues - by Jim Craven to a mailing list called the Activists and Scholars in Marxist Tradition ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). It begins with excerpts from the Financial Times. (Quote) Tempers flare over US spy-ship inquiry By Guy Dinmore in Washington Financial Times January 13 2004 Survivors of one of the most hotly disputed incidents in American military history - the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty spy-ship in 1967 - on Monday accused the US authorities, past and present, of a cover-up in backing Israeli claims that it was a tragic mistake. Emotions boiled over in the basement of the State Department as the Office of the Historian opened a public conference on the six-day Arab-Israeli war with heated debate over newly released intercepts from the archives of the secretive National Security Agency. Most of the basic facts are undisputed. On June 8 1967, Israeli aircraft and later torpedo boats struck the Liberty just off the Mediterranean coast, killing 34 crew and wounding 172. The ship, one of the world's most sophisticated listening vessels but only lightly armed, limped into port. From there the controversy begins. An immediate US Navy court of Inquiry backed the Israeli claim that it had been mistaken for an Egyptian warship. The US accepted $12m (?9.4m, £6.5m) in compensation. While some historians have accepted this, survivors and a varied group of academics and former military officials insist the attack was deliberate. You're trying to whitewash it, one survivor shouted from the audience as Marc Susser, the State Department's historian, acted as moderator and sought to keep order, refusing to allow speeches from the floor. Even debate on the panel of invited historians descended into acrimony with one contributor accused of being an Israeli agent. Two recent developments added fuel to the controversy. Last week Ward Boston, a naval captain who acted as senior legal counsel for the Navy's court of inquiry in 1967, signed an affidavit declaring that the late Admiral Isaac Kidd, president of the court, had told him that President Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara, defence secretary, had ordered a cover-up. And on Monday, David Hatch, the National Security Agency's own historian, elaborated on the recently declassified NSA material, the first time the eavesdropping agency had released real voice intercepts. Mr Hatch confessed that the information doesn't settle much. But his analysis of the conversations between an Israeli air controller and two helicopter pilots suggested strongly that the Israelis did not know at first they were attacking a US vessel, although there was mention of a US flag flying. He also regretted that the new NSA material did not clarify why the Liberty had not received orders sent to it to leave a war zone. Joseph Lentini, a survivor who has spent the past 36 years researching the tragedy, told reporters he remained convinced that the attack was deliberate. He admits it is hard to understand why the Israelis would want to sink a ship of its closest ally at a time of war. Conspiracy theories abound. (End Quote) Response from Jim C: The why of the attack was documented thoroughly in James Bamford's book Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Sercurity Agency, Doubleday, NY, 2001. and it is not some kind of conspiracy theory. I should note that Bamford's first book on the NSA called The Puzzle
[PNEWS-L] Part (5) - Psycho USS Liberty Conspiratorial Slanders
Part (5) - Psycho USS Liberty Conspiratorial Slanders by Hank Roth No Cooperation No Help Wanted At 2:51, Oren radioed back to command headquarters that the ship could be Russian. Rabin called an emergency meeting of his adviser to discuss the possiblity of large sacale Soviet intervention but at 3:20 Oren notified headquarters that the ship was not Russian, it was American. At 3:30 the news was conveyed to Commander Castle, naval atache in Tel Aviv. Israel offered to help with the wounded. The offer was rejected. One must remember when Marines were wounded in Lebanon Israel offered then also to treat the wounded and that offer was then also rejected - causing additional loss of life. There must be accountability for that blunder also. The attack on the U.S.S. Liberty was not done with malice, but was a genuine understandable mistake, like many which are often made in battle, and which could have been avoided if the Liberty had stayed out of harm's way [as we learned later was the intention of the State Department and the Chiefs of Staff]. The problem is a lack of accountability. Take the case of the old cargo ship off North Korea sent to spy. Who sent the Peoblo? It was the skipper who the Court of Inquiry wanted to blame it on. It wasn't the skipper's fault. And, who recommended the sending in of Marines into the middle of the Lebanese civil war with no clearer mission than to establish a presence? It wasn't the Marine Corp, it was President Reagan, and his advisers. And, to his credit, Reagan did take responsibility for the airport bombing. Adm. William J. Crewe, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff told the world it was all Iran's fault that the Vincennes shot down the airliner, but failed to mention the ship was in Iranian waters at the time. Deniability, yes; but, what about U.S. Naval accountability? USS Liberty Slanders (3) Myths and Facts Mitchell Bard and Joel Himelbarb The Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was a tragic mistake. But it must be recalled that the incident occurred in the midst of a full- scale war. On June 8, 1967, the third day of the conflict, the Israeli military command believed an Egyptian vessel had fired on Israeli positions in El Arish. It turned out to be the USS Liberty, an American intelligence ship assigned to monitor the fighting, which was 14 miles off the Sinai coast. Israeli war planes attacked, killing 34 members of the Liberty's crew and wounding 171. The Liberty was first reported-incorrectly, as it turned out-to be cruising at 22 knots, a rate usually maintained only by warships. The Liberty's flag, according to testimony of crew members, may not have been discernible because there was little wind, and the flag was knocked down after the first assault. Also, after the first attack, the Liberty's commander refused an Israeli request that the ship identify itself. And, according to testimony of its own crew, the Liberty bore at least a surface resemblance to the El Quseir, an Egyptian ship. The argument that the attack was a horrible error is further reinforced by a biography of Yitzhak Rabin (Dan Kurzman, Soldier of Peace: The Life of Yitzhak Rabin. NY: HarperCollins, 1998), who was Israel's Chief of Staff during the war, which says the Israelis initially were terrified that they had attacked a Soviet ship and might have provoked the Soviets to join the fighting. When they learned it was in fact a U.S. vessel, Rabin was still worried that the mistake might jeopardize American support for Israel. The misidentification of the Liberty as an enemy vessel was understandable. Three days earlier, Israel had asked that American ships be removed from its coast and that it be notified of the precise location of U.S. vessels. The Sixth Fleet was moved, but the Liberty did not get the message. In 1991, columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak trumpeted their discovery of an American who said he had been in the Israeli war room when the decision was made to knowingly attack the American ship.(3) In fact, that individual, Seth Mintz, was not in the war room at the time and the man who he said had been with him, a Gen. Benni Matti, did not exist. Also, contrary to their claim that an Israeli pilot identified the ship as American, the transcript of the radio traffic between the attack fighters and air force headquarters contains no such statement. None of Israel's accusers has been able to explain adequately why Israel would have deliberately attacked an American ship. Confusion in a long line of communications, which occurred in a tense atmosphere on both the American and Israeli sides (a message from the Joint Chiefs of Staff for the ship to remain at least 20 miles off the Egyptian coast never arrived) is a more probable explanation. Accidents caused by friendly fire are common in wartime. In 1988, the U.S. Navy mistakenly downed an Iranian passenger plane, killing 290 civilians. During the
[PNEWS-L] Other Archives
By the way, this list is once again carried on other archives besides the one here at Yahoogroups. See http://www.mail-archive.com/pnews-l@yahoogroups.com/ and this one: http://www.mail-archive.com/pnews-l@yahoogroups.com/ If you want to look something up, use the archives by following those links and if you find something you want to talk about, follow up here with your comments. AND, if you haven't guessed by now, I have decided not to move the list again. We may as well stay right here. Additional archiving will insure the list will also be archives on Google and will be sustained on the web even beyond the time it may or may not survive Yahoo. If Yahoo moves or changes the lists will still be here. If you want older archives, just do a search on Google for pnews-l. And there is always wayback.com... As of today there are 564 subscribers on PNEWS-L. Hank Roth
[PNEWS-L] Correction: Other Archives
By the way, this list is once again carried on other archives besides the one here at Yahoogroups. See http://news.gmane.org/gmane.politics.progressive.news and this one: http://www.mail-archive.com/pnews-l@yahoogroups.com/ If you want to look something up, use the archives by following those links and if you find something you want to talk about, follow up here with your comments. AND, if you haven't guessed by now, I have decided not to move the list again. We may as well stay right here. Additional archiving will insure the list will also be archives on Google and will be sustained on the web even beyond the time it may or may not survive Yahoo. If Yahoo moves or changes the lists will still be here. If you want older archives, just do a search on Google for pnews-l. And there is always wayback.com... As of today there are 564 subscribers on PNEWS-L. Hank Roth
[PNEWS-L] Jews have the Right to Live in Israel
Jews are always being expelled. Their history includes expulsions from all over Europe. It includes expulsions from Mecca and Medina when those cities were captured by Muhammad and the majority population, in many instances, the Jews, were forced out or wiped out. Do Jews have the right to live anywhere? They do not have the legal right to live in Jordan. They are not allowed to live there even though Jordan was a big part of the original UN Mandate which was set aside for a Jewish state. They are not allowed to live in Saudi Arabia. They are not allowed to return to the lands from whence they were expelled anywhere in any of the 22 other countries established by the United Nations. They are being told to get out of the territories. It is ironic that many Jews lived in the territories before being expelled by Jordan when the West Bank and Gaza were captured by Jordan and many Jews lived in the territories as permanent residents for centuries long before any Arab ever moved there. Jews are permitted to live one place in the area referred to as the Cradle of Civilization. They can live on the land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael). And they improve the land where-ever they do live. They cleared the land, drained the swamps, turned deserts into productive farm land, introduced industry and agriculture and made it work. Most of the owners of the land in Judea and Samaria were not even living on the land. They allowed others to futher enrich them by farming the land for them. Arabs were never dispossessed. There was plenty of land for everyone. The land that Israelis made productive often wasn't being used for anything else. It was the Jews who made use of the land possible. Jews made the entire area better and Arabs wanted to live there because of it. Not only did they find jobs, their health also improved. Malaria was eradicated - and - Jewish doctors healed them. Arab infant mortality dropped because of improved health conditions which were established by Jewish settlers. Jewish scientists and technicians invented the technology to make their lives better. Their standard of living also improved. This standard was reflected by the per capita income of Palestinian Arabs, which more than doubled between 1920 and 1937 and was considerably higher than the averages in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq Continued: CONTINUED: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/PLo.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Bad Cop
Bad Cop Outside of the United States and his fundamentalist Christian base, who doesn't now have complete contempt for George W. Bush? What foreign leader can feel the same way about America it once did? Why does the rest of the world fear us? And they do fear us. Once, not long ago, America was admired. Because of George Bush, they do not like or trust us. By proclaiming they are either for us or against us has now put them all firmly against us. He's poisoned alliances; he's torn up treaties. He has convinced foes they had better get nuclear weapons, and get them quick. He's made America the global enemy of law and order. No enemy of human rights, or of the environment, or of a realistic approach to dealing with the problems of living sanely on this planet is friendless as long as George W. Bush is in the White House. 1 George Bush has destroyed belief in America's goodness and America's wisdom among hundreds of millions of people. Gratuitously, with his trademark smirk, he's turned a friendly world into a hostile world. Nations and people who once saw America as a global protector now see the United States as the greatest threat to civilized human values currently at large in the world. 1 Good Cop I've heard some say that Colin Powell is the Man and always the good cop in this administration. He is now out of the administration and he is saying he was duped into believing there were weapons of mass destruction and the facts were simply wrong. I don't believe him. This would not be the first time Colin Powell lied. And one thing Colin Powell is good at is his job, which is how he got where he was at. He follows orders. When he is told to follow the Bush party line, he does. On March 16, 1968, US soldiers from the Americal Division slaughtered 347 civilians--primarily old men, women, children, and babies--in the Vietnamese village of My Lai 4 (pronounced, very appropriately, as me lie). The grunts also engaged in torture and rape of the villagers. 2 Around six months later, a soldier in the 11th Light Infantry Brigade--known among the men as the Butcher's Brigade--wrote a letter telling of widespread killing and torturing of Vietnamese civilians by entire units of the US military (he did not specifically refer to My Lai). The letter was sent to the general in charge of 'Nam and trickled down the chain of command to Major Colin Powell, a deputy assistant chief of staff at the Americal Division, who was charged with investigating the matter and formulating a response. 2 After a desultory check--which consisted mainly of investigating the soldier who wrote the letter, rather than his allegations--Powell reported that everything was hunkey-dory. There may be some isolated incidents by individual bad seeds, but there were no widespread atrocities. He wrote: In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between Americal soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent. The matter was closed. 2 Could you believe this man to tell the truth about Saddam Hussein when he intentionally covered up one of the worst individual unit violations of human rights and mass murder during the war in Vietnam? If not for another soldier who contacted his Congressman about My Lai we may never have known about the massacre. How many other inhumane acts of criminality did Colin Powell try to coverup? Continued: More: http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/CoP.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Arab Claims Baseless
Not surprisingly, the Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations such as Haifa, where the Arab population increased 216 percent, Jaffa 134 percent, and Jerusalem 90 percent. These phenomenal rates may be compared with the more modest increases that took place in Arab towns: 42 percent in Nablus, 40 percent in Jenin, and 32 percent in Bethlehem. (ibid) The Jewish population of Eretz Israel increased by 375,000 between WWI and WWII. Non-Jewish increases were 380,000 in that same period. There were limits on Jewish immigration. There were no limits on Arab immigration. Jews bought private land from absentee land owners. The Jews also acquired public land when Israel was established on that land which was granted for the Mandate under the UN partition. More than 90% of the land Jews had purchased by 1936 had been bought from land owners, nearly 40% of whom lived in Egypt and Syria. Less than 8.7% of the Jews' land was purchased from fellaheen (those who farmed their own land). In addition, of the 370,000 acres in Jewish hands, 87,500 acres were swamp land and 125,000 acres were lands never before cultivated The Jews did not dispossess fallaheen (peasants). They also did not tender meager sums for the land from the rich land owners. They paid outrageous and exhorbitant prices for mostly swampland and uncultivated arid land. Arab claims that their land was taken from them proved baseless, except for a very few who had to relocate because of security reasons practically all of the claims of confiscation which were made, investigating them determined that the claims were bogus. These false claims come from Arabs who never owned the land in the first place. And these erroneous claims are still being made today. CONTINUED: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/PLo.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Zionism is Jewish Liberation
Zionism is Jewish Liberation from antisemites like AMY can't stand it. Z I O N I S M Israeli rights on the land are greater, and in most instances more just than Arab claims, many of which were false. There are always grievances in war and there will be in this ongoing conflict. Zionism is a Jewish Liberation Movement to find safe haven on the land where many of the Jews were once expelled -- but some continued to live for 20 centuries or portions thereof. And Zionism was an attempt to provide justice to those who were denied justice, but also equity, and to liberate the Jews from oppression in Europe and elsewhere and to provide escape from persecution by tyranical Islamic governments. Zionism was to be liberation from antisemtism. East Jerusalem was occupied by Jordan for 19 years and Jews were denied access to their homes in a city where Jews outnumbered Arabs from the time of the first census in 1840 onward? Who objected when Jews were expelled from Arab countries in the 1940s and banished from them forever and had their land and property stolen from them? Israel Took in Millions of Refugees (all of them Jewish which nobody else wanted) Arab leaders encouraged Arabs to leave the territories, the West Bank and Gaza and Israel (Judea and Samara) but they refused to let them settle anywhere but the refugee camps (except for a few exceptions, like in Lebanon where there was a Christian majority)? Jews bought bought overpriced land for settlements often from an absentee owner who sold the land to the Jewish National Fund at 5 and 10 times its value? Some disputes arose later over title but what constituted title to land, a tenant farmer who has no fee simple or the absentee owner who acquired the land from the Ottoman government or inherited it from their family? The tenant farmer moral claim to the land if the farmer lived on the land for generations but there was no legally valid title. In many instances the Jews paid twice. they paid off these claims anyway and when tenant farmers heard that the Jews were paying them off, they often filed multiple claims, but many never lived there at all. They were bogus and not justifiable nor real claims. The Arabs (who call themselves Palestinians) never occupied any area which was sovereign. There never has been a nation called Palestine. The cities where MOST of the Arabs live are autonomous because they have been granted that autonomy by the Israelis. Some of the land was only sparsely populated (both by Arabs and Jews). They want it A L L L L L L L L Many settlements are suburbs of major Israeli cities. MOST (70% of them) are the natural expansion and growth of Israeli cities but for the other settlements there have been offers to dismantle many of them and redraw the border for others and Arafat rejected the offers. It doesn't matter what the offers are; they are always rejected, before by Arafat and now by the new leadership because that is not what they want. The want it all. Judea and Samaria are west of the Jordan and these Arabs already had their civil war in Jordan and lost, had their civil war in Judea and Samaria against the Jews and lost, had their civil war in Lebanon and lost and want the international community to hand them land where Jews live and have always lived for thousands of years. MORE: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/PLo.shtml
[PNEWS-L] U.S. Congress to Hold Hearings on Jewish Refugees
WHAT About the 900,000 Jewish Refugees Kicked out of Arab Lands? A million displaced Jewish refugees? crickets chirping. Maybe not. Tip of the old hat to the CHRC for bringing this atrocity to the attention the American people. Perhaps truth and historical fact will begin to chip away at the prevailing Arab lies and narrative the media and the world persistently cling to. US Congress to Hold Hearing on Jewish Refugees From Arab States Arutz Sheva IsraelNN.com) The Congressional Human Rights Caucus (CHRC) of the US legislature is set to hold a first-of-its-kind hearing next week on the hundreds of thousands of Jews who were forced to flee their homes in Arab countries as a result of the Arab-Israeli conflict. The July 19 hearing in Washington, D.C., under the heading Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries: Truth, Justice, and Reconciliation, is to be hosted by the CHRC in conjunction with B'nai Brith International and Justice for Jews from Arab Countries. It will be the first time that the US Congress will hear testimony on the issue of Jewish refugees from Arab countries. The expert witnesses invited to address the US legislators include * Dr. Irwin Cotler, a member of Parliament and a former Justice Minister from Canada who is well-known for his advocacy on behalf of prisoners of conscience around the globe, including Egyptian-American sociologist and human rights activist Professor Saad Edin Ibrahim; * Dr. Henry Green, a professor of Religious Studies and Sociology at the University of Miami, and the former director of the Judaic and Sephardic Studies Department; * Mrs. Regina Bublil Waldman, a recipient of the prestigious Martin Luther King Jr. Humanitarian Award, and a co-founder of Jews Indigenous to the Middle East and North Africa (JIMENA), a US-based advocacy group. Mrs. Waldman was born in Libya and her family was nearly murdered while escaping that country in 1967. The CHRC hearing will also include a screening of The Forgotten Refugees, produced by the David Project. The film is a documentary about the mass exodus of almost one million Jews from Arab countries. The July 19 congressional hearing on Jewish refugees has an immediate, practical goal of providing US congressmen with preliminary information ahead of voting on House Resolution 185 and Senate Resolution 85. According to the proposed legislation, the US president would be obligated to instruct all official representatives of the United States that explicit reference to Palestinian refugees be matched by a similar explicit reference to Jewish and other refugees, as a matter of law and equity. (See Senate Res 85 for the full text.) A JIMENA statement calls the proposed resolutions the strongest declaration adopted by the US Congress acknowledging the rights of Jewish refugees who were forced to flee Arab countries. As JIMENA notes, There were two major population movements that occurred during years of great turmoil in the Middle East, from 1948 to 1968. Arabs and Jews were both determined to be bona fide refugees under international law. In fact, more former Jewish refugees were uprooted from Arab countries (over 850,000) than Palestinians who left Israel in 1948 (UN estimate: 726,000). The CHRC, convening the unique hearing, is chaired by Representative Tom Lantos (D-CA), Chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs. http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2007/07/what-about-th-1.html
[PNEWS-L] Palestinian Authority Official Sermon 908
Special Dispatch Series - No. 908 May 17, 2005No.908 This Week's Palestinian Authority Sermon: We (Muslims) Will Rule America; Israel is a Cancer; Jews are a Virus Resembling AIDS; Muslims Will Finish Them Off The following are excerpts from this week's official Friday sermon on Palestinian Authority (PA) TV. [1] The preacher is Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris, a paid employee of the PA. To view the sermon visit http://memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9P1=669. Allah has tormented us with 'the people most hostile to the believers' the Jews. 'Thou shalt find that the people most hostile to the believers to be the Jews and the polytheists.' Allah warned His beloved Prophet Muhammad about the Jews, who had killed their prophets, forged their Torah, and sowed corruption throughout their history. With the establishment of the state of Israel, the entire Islamic nation was lost, because Israel is a cancer spreading through the body of the Islamic nation, and because the Jews are a virus resembling AIDS, from which the entire world suffers. You will find that the Jews were behind all the civil strife in this world. The Jews are behind the suffering of the nations. Ask Britain what it did to the Jews in the early sixth century. What did they do to the Jews? They expelled them, tortured them, and prevented them from entering Britain for more than 300 years. All this was because of what the Jews did in Britain. Ask France what it did to the Jews. They tortured them, expelled them, and burned their Talmud, because of the civil strife the Jews wanted to spark in France, in the days of Louis XIX. Ask Portugal what it did to the Jews. Ask Czarist Russia, which welcomed the Jews, who plotted to kill the Czar - so he massacred them. But don't ask Germany what it did to the Jews. It was the Jews who provoked Nazism to wage war against the entire world, when the Jews, using the Zionist movement, got other countries to wage an economic war on Germany and to boycott German merchandise. They provoked Russia, Britain, France, and Italy. This enraged the Germans toward the Jews, leading to the events of those days, which the Jews commemorat today. But they are committing worse deeds than those done to them in the Nazi war. Yes, perhaps some of them were killed and some burned, but they are inflating this in order to win over the of the media and gain the world's sympathy. The worst crimes in history were committed against the Jews, yet these crimes are no worse than what the Jews are doing in Palestine. What was done to the Jews was a crime, but isn't what the Jews are doing today in the land of Palestine not a crime?! Look at modern history. Where has Great Britain gone? Where has Czarist Russia gone? Where has France gone - France, which almost ruled the entire world? Where is Nazi Germany, which massacred millions and ruled the world? Where did all these superpowers go? He who made them disappear will make America disappear too, God willing. He who made Russia disappear overnight is capable of making America disappear and fall, Allah willing. We have ruled the world before, and by Allah, the day will come when we will rule the entire world again. The day will come when we will rule America. The day will come when we will rule Britain and the entire world except for the Jews. The Jews will not enjoy a life of tranquility under our rule, because they are treacherous by nature, as they have been throughout history. The day will come when everything will be relived of the Jews - even the stones and trees which were harmed by them. Listen to the Prophet Muhammad, who tells you about the evil end that awaits Jews. The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew. [1] Palestinian Authority TV, May 13, 2005. For more information on the subject: See Palestinian Authority Sermons 2000-2003, December 26, 2003, http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archivesArea=srID=SR2403 MEMRITV Clip No. 647, Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris in a PA Friday Sermon: Muslim Prisoners Are Forced to Convert to Christianity in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine, http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9P1=647 MEMRI TV Clip No. 608, Palestinian Authority Friday Sermon: The Time Has Come for the 'Great Jihad,' http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9P1=608 MEMRI TV Clip No. 563, Sermons on Palestinian TV, http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9P1=563 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [PNEWS-L] Re: Comments to a Friend
What cheating? I said caging. Read Robert Kennedy's fine article in Rolling Stone. It is still online. Then talk to me. Hank On Sat, 14 Jul 2007, John wrote: Hank, use simple arithmetics, please. A court needs some de batable uncertainty for a decisive action, like a 'close to 50:50 result. Let us forget about the 'disefranchisement; and look at the 'counted' figures. Discounting the small fractions, in 2000 there was ~46% for Bush, 46% for Gore, 8% for Nader. Most of this 8% would have been Gore's, if there is no Nader-run, so the final result - without Nader - would have looked: 46% Bush, 54% Gore. Never mind the 'black votes cheating', this situation would have not allowed any court action - Florida or not. In 2004 it was that impotent and unfit Pope-lopving Kerry candidacy, who threw in the towel prematurely when Bush called him. Of course there was manipulation of numbers, but it would not have worked with a viable and strong - fit competitor. 2008? As I see it, mainstream US is not ready for a female. not ready for a black, not ready for a Jew (no matter how rich) so the odds are again for the 'Skull and Bones' big money's GOP White House. Queen Barbara will prevail. I agree with your selection of Kucinich, just does not find him likely to win (if he makes the primary at all in 'that' Dem. Party). Since we will have the best money can buy, Hillary will run, in spite of her blunder for universal health care, for her political ineptness not seeing through the Iraq-lies, for her lawyerish skills to 'lucky investments' in Arkansas, Whitewater, etc. etc. Foster could tell, but he is dead. Bill is always behind her with his Balkan war and other questionable features (pardon etc.) John John - Original Message - From: Hank Roth To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 9:49 PM Subject: [PNEWS-L] Re: Comments to a Friend No he didn't. The spoiler in that election was the Supreme Court and caging was illegally used by Republicans to disenfranchise African-American votes. They were again disenfranchised in 2004. It didn't require anymore than that. Besides which, Nader was the best candidate, and Dennis Kucinich is the best candidate in 2008. Hank --- In PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amy: in the 2000 election those 8% 'green' (Nader) votes gave the necessary edge to Bush to get into the White House. No court could have done it with an 8% majority for Gore. Now do they do that again? Are the powers behind the Bush government aiding the 'greens' to divide the 'anti'-votes again? The money is there. In the present US setup no 3rd party can achieve electability, not even Bloomberg's money. It seems we are stuck with this 1party system - divided in 2. John - Original Message - From: Amy Hendrickson To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [PNEWS-L] RE: Comments to a Friend We all can sense that there our democracy is turning into a police state, and our foreign policy is an immoral, expensive, counterproductive disaster. The question truly is, what can we do about it? We should not just register discontent personally, we should do that publically, and then take action. One possibility is abandoning the dems and working for Greens. Getting some Greens elected to congress in 08 might have some good effects. At a minimum it would let the dems know that they aren't the only game in town for people that despise and fear the further ruin the Repubs will bring us. But that is only short range-- long range we need to get money out of politics and abandon the empire project in all its manifestations. The two are linked. - Original Message - From: razldazl To: PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 1:36 AM Subject: Re: [PNEWS-L] RE: Comments to a Friend If everything is such a controlled, monocausal conspiracy? why would 'he,' need to 'rig the elections again?' That is a completely illogical and irrational assertion? Your rant is full of holes, internally inconsistent and self-contradictory. Pius pap, conspiratorial hype, meaningless diffusion of irrational venom. Best stick to rescuing chooks love; that sounds more your forte. Bush is just one individual. What do you know of the man's actual political beliefs, ethics and internal psychological conflicts and struggles; other than the one-dimensional celluloid projections you obviously gorge upon? Let's argue hypothetically? that 'Bush' was at core a secularist? or a Marxist? an animal Liberationist even? What could this one man alone archive in a world inundated and dominated
[PNEWS-L] Those who discount the CIA
I say it is very good that we had an OSS and a CIA. The CIA did fine work and it was not for no reason that it was considered a liberal agency by the executive branch. Bill Casey and Bob Gates subverted the system. So did Tenet, but these were not professionals. The CIA pressured the White House and I remember it well - to make the SALT agreements possible. They did more but most of the work you will never know about. Know this, their work has one purpose, to keep America safe and to make actions like the one on 9/11 impossible. Sometimes they fail. In recent years they have been politicized not from within except at the very top by appointed heads of departments but from the various administrations - especially Dick Chaney and Bush to use them to their advantage, not ours. It was Bush also who killed the SALT agreement. I had the pleasure of working with people from NSA and the Secret Service. I never met a CIA agent when I was in the White House but I knew they were there doing what we pay them to do - and I prefer to keep it that way. Since Plame was outed, all those she had in her network were put at risk of torture and death - and according to other CIA officers who have spoken out - there is CERTAINTY that some have assuredly been killed because the Bush administration's disclosed a top secret field agent's identity - which had the result of outing everyone who worked for her. Her job was to uncover WMD in Iraq and Iran. Who know watches and rebuilds an network to watch the Iranians? I hope the MOSAD takes up where CIA leaves off which I'm certain they will do. If there is an attack on Iran by Israel you better believe it is because there is cause. If the U.S. attacks Iran I would not now be so certain. Hank
[PNEWS-L] Arab Population Increased with Jewish Development
Not surprisingly, the Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations such as Haifa, where the Arab population increased 216 percent, Jaffa 134 percent, and Jerusalem 90 percent. These phenomenal rates may be compared with the more modest increases that took place in Arab towns: 42 percent in Nablus, 40 percent in Jenin, and 32 percent in Bethlehem. (ibid) The Jewish population of Eretz Israel increased by 375,000 between WWI and WWII. Non-Jewish increases were 380,000 in that same period. There were limits on Jewish immigration. There were no limits on Arab immigration. Jews bought private land from absentee land owners. The Jews also acquired public land when Israel was established on that land which was granted for the Mandate under the UN partition. More than 90% of the land Jews had purchased by 1936 had been bought from land owners, nearly 40% of whom lived in Egypt and Syria. Less than 8.7% of the Jews' land was purchased from fellaheen (those who farmed their own land). In addition, of the 370,000 acres in Jewish hands, 87,500 acres were swamp land and 125,000 acres were lands never before cultivated The Jews did not dispossess fallaheen (peasants). They also did not tender meager sums for the land from the rich land owners. They paid outrageous and exhorbitant prices for mostly swampland and uncultivated arid land. Arab claims that their land was taken from them proved baseless, except for a very few who had to relocate because of security reasons practically all of the claims of confiscation which were made, investigating them determined that the claims were bogus. These false claims come from Arabs who never owned the land in the first place. And these erroneous claims are still being made today. CONTINUED: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/PLo.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Theology of Hate
Theology of AntiSemitism (Myths and Truths - Khazars/Kurds/Jews) Some AntiSemites have adopted the Christian Identity Movement view that insists that Jews have no claim to Israel and most Jews today are really inheritors of the Jewish covenant by virtue of the fact that they acquired their Jewish identity not as true Jews, but as Khazars - as-if the Jewish claim to Israel was strictly based on lineage and religion. It is not. It is a cultural and community connection which is reinforced by the state itself and the ability to defend it and develop it. This and other reasons, not least of which has been persecution of Jews everywhere outside of Israel and legitimates the claim to sovereignty. Urban Legends There are many urban legends. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and the blood libel are just two of them. This oft repeated calumny against the Jews has been discredited but never completely disappears. The slander can be found with great frequency on the Internet which is a popular medium for spreading rumors, misinformation, lies and libels. Another place it is found with increased frequency is in the Arab press and school textbooks where it molds minds and teaches impressionable young Arabs to hate the Jews. Hate is on the March The entire Jewish people have been falsely accused of murder. They were indicted by the Christian Church for the crucifixion of Jesus. Even after the church said it made a mistake the indictment didn't go away. The Passion is played out each year at Easter and Christians are reminded why they must hate the Jews. Hate is on the march. Hate is always on the march. MORE: http://pnews.org/ArT/ReL/ThEO.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Powell Doctrine
The Powell Doctrine of Targeting Civilians In the fall of 1990, when the US Congress was debating going to war, Amnesty International (AI) released an explosive report detailing how Iraqi soldiers had taken Kuwaiti babies out of incubators and left them to die on hospital floors. Many US Senators later claimed it was the Amnesty dead baby report that finally convinced them to use vicious force against the Iraqis. 2 Except it never happened The lie was a propaganda ploy to support the war against Iraq and demonize Saddam Hussein - and it worked U.S. Regime Change or Revolution Lying and the Downing Street Memos should be enough to impeach and jail Bush and Chaney but they're still walking free. I guess you can call that democracy, where the ruling class gets to do whatever they want and poor people die and we can't vote them out of office because they steal the votes and control the congress. If that is how democracy works, maybe we should try revolution instead? War-Like Or Just Liking War Only 5 years after WWII we went to war again, this time in Korea and then we helped the French and started our Indochina wars. We provided 80% of all the war equipment, without which there could not be any wars. We tried to bomb them back to the stone age in Vietnam, then Cambodia and Laos and in 1950 also we had our covert wars where we supported insurgents like those fighting us now in Iraq on that time it was overthrowing the governments of Iran and Guatemala and not to stop there we sent troops into the Dominican Republic. U.S. aid flew out of here to Indonesia where we helped the Suharto dictatorship with an internal war against the reformist opposition. What does it matter that we were responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands and we provided support in 1975 to Indonesia's brutality against the people of East Timor and hundreds of thousands more died. This was tragedy and it was farce. In the 80s Reagan began his own covert war throughout all of Central America with the same people advising him that are now in the Bush government advising Georgie how best to kill and impose dictatorship we like and some we may call democracies but we know better -- in El Salvador, Honduras, Costa Rica, and Nicaragua. The insurgency then were supported Contras, which Reagan referred to as freedom fighters, so why doesn't GW also call insurgencies in Iraq which oppose the occupation, freedom fighters? And in 1978, the U.S. government backed Osama bin Laden and his Mujahedeen in Afghanistan against the Russians, which lasted 10 years and killed tens of thousands on both sides - and these rebels soon became the fundamentalist Islamic Taliban who snubbed our overtures in the 90s to cut the pie up more in Unical's favor when the pipe-land was built to carry gas and oil across Afghanistan to Pakistan so Bush junior attacked them and made Kabul save for big oil. But not to get ahead of myself, in 1989, George Bush Sr. attacked Panama and had his war and when our Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait on our signal that we would not object George Senior started another war and on the Highway of Death where hundreds of thousands of Iraqis conscripts were fleeing back to Iraq massacred them in what has been called a turkey shoot. That also was an excuse to build up our military presence in Saudi Arabia to protect the king and our oil and it was the major reason al-Qaeda attacked the U.S. on American soil with high-jacked airplanes with almost 20 Saudi Islamic nationalists. President Clinton bombed Afghanistan, the Sudan, Yugoslavia and Iraq. But Bush thinks we're a peaceful nation. Continued?: http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/CoP.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Not an Angel Anywhere
Otto Boeckel, who wrote about the Jew as the cause of economic misery and insisted that German's salvation demanded a Jew- free Germany was elected to the Reichstag in 1887. In 1891, the Universal German League was founded, which later in 1893 changed its name to the Pan-German League . It called for racial and cultural kinship among Germans and prohibition of immigration. In 1924, the National Socialist Party, which had become the chief organ for political anti-Semitism in Germany managed to win 6.7% of the vote and send 32 delegates to the Reichstag. As the economy improved their representation decreased but after the world wide crisis in 1929 their popularity increased once again and in 1930 they won 18.3% of the vote and sent 107 delegates to the Reichstag. The composer, Wagner had considerable influence over Hitler's ideas. Hitler said, At every stage in my life, I come back to Richard Wagner,who wrote: The Jew is a plastic demon of the decline of mankind. I consider the Jewish race the sworn enemy of man and all that is noble in him. That we Germans in particular will be ruined by them is beyond dispute. Karl Lueger (1844-1910) who was called the greatest mayor of all time by Hitler said of the Jews, It makes no difference whether one hangs them or decapitates them. Many Jews were going through a severe identity crisis during this period and sought acceptance by their Christian countrymen by rejecting their Jewish heritage. The reform Jewish Movement was established and had its greatest successes during this time. Many chose to reform their customs while still others chose to renounce their Jewishness altogether much as their forefathers had done during the time of the Seleucid Empire. Herman Cohen aptly described the Jewish attitude: We love our Germanness Duetschtum, not only because we love our homeland as a bird loves its nest, but because .. we have drawn our intellectual culture...from the treasures and mines of German spirit, ... the spirit of classical humanity and of true cosmopolitanism. What other people has a Kant?.. And, what people has this spiritual unity of poetic heroes such as have enlivened our spiritual history through Lessing and Herder, through Schiller and Goethe? What people has ever had this unity of classical poetry and philosophy? The German intellectual are all of them prophets of humanity. It is really natural that we German Jews feel ourselves integrated as Jews and as Germans.. I read Faust not only as a beautiful poem, but my love goes out to it as a German epiphany. I feel the same way about Luther..Mozart and Beethoven and Friherr von Stein and Bismarck. It was during this time also that Herzl, who had, like Marx previously considered assimilation the solution observed an intense AntiSemitism in Europe and concluded that the Jew could not be assimilated into a Christian society (then or now). The so-called liberal Jews of Austria and Germany resented the immigration of more Eastern Jews (who were mostly orthodox) into their society. Meanwhile as Jews argued among themselves over immigration, the Germans were blaming them for Germany's defeat in World War I, the Versailles Treaty, the economic collapse of Germany, insecurity, inflation, unemployment, political chaos and for being Bolshevists and in Russia, Stalin was accusing the Jews of being counter-revolutionaries. During his stay in Landsberg prison, Hitler established ideas that he considered Moses the first Bolshevik and the message of the Apostle Paul was that Germany was the only bulwark between Western Capitalism and Jewish Bolshevism. Continued: MORE: http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/ArY.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Repeal Religious Laws
In Muslim countries, this movement is emerging, but very timidly, and it has a slim margin of maneuver. It has the uphill task of fighting for the repeal of religious laws and the introduction of a uniform civil code. So far, it tends to be constituted by a few individual feminists who are forced to be diplomatic, to compromise with fundamentalists, be they men or women. But they are trying to change the system, step by step, and it will take a very long time. People are not yet ready to do away with religious laws that impact upon every aspect of society, from education and health to the workplace and the home. For women's status to change, we also need enlightened leaders who believe in equality. In countries such as mine, women with a strong voice do not have the support of political leaders, whether they be men or women. Look at the countries in which women are in politics, or even heads of state. Does it follow that women in those countries are emancipated? Because of long-standing vested interests, such leaders continue to back measures that oppress women. They are not ideologically committed to changing these conditions. In South Asia, most of the women who become heads of state are religious, and like men, they adhere to the religious objectives of the Establishment. I am the victim of a country where the prime minister is a woman. Because I went one step too far in denouncing religion and the oppression that it keeps women under, I had to leave my country. I have seen women oppose me when I talked about women's rights. They said straight out that God did not believe that women should have so many rights. And I have met men in my country who are against what is said in the religious scriptures and believe in equality between men and women. It does not depend on gender. It depends on one's conscience. Muslim women who are wearing the veil and glorifying their subservience are obviously not going to better the lives of the oppressed. Until a society is not based on religion and women are considered equal to men before the law, I do not think that politics will advance the cause of women. In Western countries, women are educated, they are treated equally, they have access to jobs. In these conditions, their participation in politics has a meaning. Education, a secular feminist movement, and leaders-both men and women-committed to equality and justice. This is what it will take to change the dire conditions which too many women still face today. It will take a very long time, but we are here to work towards that end. Taslima Nasreen MORE: http://pnews.org/ArT/FrE/NaSR.shtml
[PNEWS-L] PNEWS-L, Oldest Radical Progressive Forum
Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out...and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel. ..And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for the universal brotherhood of man--with his mouth. -- Mark Twain, What Is Man? === PNEWS-L, the oldest radical progressive list on the interNUT (82) === PNEWS-L - Radical Progressive News Views PNEWS-L has been on the net since 1982 - when the internet began (before it was anything like what we know it to be now) - and long before it became a household name and before it became a commercial toilet. PNEWS-L (the network) actually had it's start on ham radio in the 60s as a network of progressive hams (and chavirim) for those concerned about injustice in the world, socialism, and the survival of the Jewish Liberation Movement in Israel. The network which met daily on 20 meters (ham radio) comprised mostly kibbutzim and the rest of the world. It was a global communications network. PNEWS-L provides support for Israel's existence and vigorously opposes Anti-Zionist Arab propaganda from all quarters. It is progressive to support a strong Israel. PNEWS also became a hardcopy newspaper to address racism and issues of security and war with thousands of subscribers. In the 80s it moved to computer networks, including Fidonet and Prodigy. It remained gated to Fidonet when it was also picked up by PeaceNet (apc.igc.org) and I was given a free account in order to gate pnews (as two forums: [1] Discussion (pnews.d) and [2] News (pnews) to this activist network. PNEWS-L came to the internet first as an alias list - and also remained gated to Fidonet for independent BBSs and the APC networks for activists. When connected to the APC networks we had about 30,000 recipients of the lists. In the 90s it migrated from a majordomo list to a mailman list and then onto LISTSERV(tm), the premier list distribution system for symposiums and universities at St Johns University in Brooklyn, NY where it was gated to the internet and in 2004 to Escartis for a year and then renamed LifeSci on Yahoogroups and on June 16th, the name was changed back to PNEWS-L. PNEWS-L is a discussion and analysis distribution list for essays and commentary; some limited quoting and some pointers (links, that is - but limit them to one or two per posting)The orientation is always progressive, socialist, secular, scientific, animal rights, human rights and to seek justice and truth. Hank Roth http://up-yours.us/ /reason and unreason/ + From Cicero and Lucretius + + Wrapped in togas + + Struggling between reason and unreason + + Battles fought in ancient times + + And fought again and again. + + + + History, a register of cruelty + + Vertiginous world + + Optimistic metaphors + + insulting and depressing. + + + + --- TheGolem --- + /[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ || BUSH LIED/PEOPLE DIED - GEORGE BUSH IS A WEAPON OF MASS DECEPTION NO BLOOD FOR OIL - DROP BUSH, NOT BOMBS! - PEOPLE BEFORE PROFITS! ||
[PNEWS-L] Where Facts Lead Us
On the Face of It Where the Facts Lead Us The left has been weighing in on the wrong side for so long it is no wonder they now have become so insignificant an influence - except among liberal, mostly middle-class, effete idealists, but there is nothing idealistic about the world or life on the planet -- as much as we would want it to be. Ideal worlds are for novels. They are not real. There is a very real dark side. It is human nature although the left has always come down on the side of the blank slate theory, that we are all born innocent and what we are is what we learn. Since the mapping of the genome and other new research the indication which is supported by most scientists is we are born with instincts which are at least (likely more) as necessary as what we learn for our survival. It is an inherent trait in all living organisms, quite essential for surviving and in our case becoming the most populous species on the planet. It is imprinted in our DNA. Morality is What We Say it Is Nature is important when we measure the way human beings behave. Nurture plays a big part too but since the mapping of the human genome and what we now know about genes it is less of a theory and more about reality that evolution determines much of everything, including our instincts for behavior which are not necessary moral. And morality, after-all, is a human construction. People are not as inherently good as the left would want to believe. That only happens in the make-believe world of fiction. Selfishness and greed are real and must be considered as essential to the equation because although it saddens me to say it, they are necessities of life. Without it our species would not have survived as long as it has. Just as with it our species is liable not to survive as long as we would like. Continued: MORE: http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/FacTS.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Democracy and Israel
Israel is, too, a democracy in the substantive sense of the word, and there are two factors which have contributed to this. The first is the British legal tradition, with its basic principle that if one has a grievance against the government, he may go to the high court of justice which administers the prerogative writs, outstanding among them the writs of habeas corpus, prohibition, and mandamus. These procedures have been inherited from the British Mandatory government; they are written in no book. There is even no special law which explicitly states that Israel has undertaken to respect this British legal tradition. Moshe Davis, Israel: Its Role in Civilization Harper, 1956 The second factor assuring the protection of human rights is the Supreme Court. It is to the honor of the public and government of Israel alike that they have unhesitatingly accepted the idea of the Supreme Court's maintaining a certain degree of control over governmental action. Israel's Supreme Court is, moreover, one which is independent of the administration. It is a court to which have been appointed the best jurists in the land, each of whose appointments has been confirmed by the Knesset. It is a court which has behind it, first, the authority of knowledge and learning; second, the confidence of the government; and third, the public's confidence, expressed by the vote of the Knesset. (ibid) Israeli Settlements Israel's detractors insist that the settlements are the greatest Israeli obstacle to peace, (from recent New York Times editorial) but even if the settlements were not there, they would be no peace. The political influence of the Muslim clerics, especially Wahhabism, who all want a return to a pure Islam incite violence against Israel. Jewish conspiracy theories and governments moving away from traditional Islam guarantee this ongoing contempt for Israel and the peace process. Settlements are... as the Times noted in the same editorial, are the size of large towns, and some are approaching small cities. Ma'aleh Adumim, in the Judean desert east of Jerusalem, has a population of 28,000; Ariel, in the foothills east of Tel Aviv, 18,000; Betar Illit, an ultra-Orthodox community south of Jerusalem, has passed 15,000. Standing in the center of such places, one has a view not of hostile Palestinians but of Jewish houses, streets, parks, shops and businesses as far as the eye can see. (Hillel Halkin, - Why the Settlements Should Stay: Making the West Bank Judenrein is no way to bring peace (May 29, 2002) (OpinionJournal.Com) MORE: http://pnews.org/art/12art/1IsCollective.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Best Minds in Germany
In 1096 Jewish hatred seethed over into wholesale slaughter in the name of Christ during the Crusades which, a time of infamy and reminder of Christian charm and charity. It is a reminder that calling Christianity a loving and forgiving religion is like George W. Bush calling conservatives compassionate. The Crusades, the Inquisition, and Burning Muslims and Jews at the Stake Jews were accused of profanation of the Host. They were blamed for plagues. And during those many times of senseless wars and political chaos between petty lords and feudal insurrections, it was the Jew who was always the scapegoat. Jew Killers In the 13th century in Germany there were Jew killers (Judenschachter) which roamed from city to city, and looted and burned Jewish neighborhoods, slaughtering the Jews, except for those who would accept the baptism. The killing reached its pinnacle, if not its climax in the Nazi Final Solution where the objective was forewarned, as it has been again by Muslims, who say they want to sweep the Jews into the Sea, to wipe out all the Jews, to finish what Hitler started and other Christians before him. Like the 2,000 year war against the Jews, including Hitler's war and Nazism, hatred is a psychosis motivating the masses to do terrible things. The evil spoken of often in Christian churches is reserved for satanic Jews who are portrayed in the Passion Play as Christ killers. It is not much of a stretch to turn that kind of seething hatred into violence and really what the church has been saying for thousands of years. So how much does it take for a Hitler to lead the masses to do really bad things? * A blueprint for Hitler's Final Solution was finalized at the Wannsee conference not by uneducated drop-outs, but by some of the best white Christian minds in Germany. MORE: http://pnews.org/ArT/ReL/ThEO.shtml
Re: [PNEWS-L] Re: Numbers of Illegal Immigrants Surge
American culture is nothing to brag about; in fact, it has a history of racism I would not think you would want to find so laudable nor is the economy so great for anyone but the corporate masters and the low paying jobs are just better than the slave wages paid by those some corporate masters in Mexico - NO WONDER they want to come here. As for killing your family, look at your red neck racist neighbors. It was a Christian fundamentalist who blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City, not some wetback who sneaked into a country which was once his - until the U.S. army and Sam Houston took it from him - a really great part of this American cultural heritage. Yep... it sure behooves him to want his share of the American tax benefits - when they stop going to the top richest 3-4%. Hank Roth On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, protectourbordersnow wrote: What are you smoking ? Illegal Immigration is killing American Culture, America's economy, and many American Lives every day. Maybe you would think different if one of your family members was killed by an illegal immigrant or your job was taken over by illegal immigrants. Maybe you dont understand that the Billions and Billions of LOST taxes to support ILLEGAL Immigration Could have been used for OUR American poor, Our American Children, Our American Elderly who legally paid into the system but now have to share with those who illegally crossed into the USA to Demand a share of American Tax benefits... --- In PNEWS-L@yahoogroups.com, Ian Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So what. Open all the borders everywhere. I don't want to make capitalism better. The prevailing view of many liberals who oppose immigration and amnesty is because it will eliminate the middle class. That has happened already. What is left, has for the most part been unfairly enriched anyway. What we need is equality and fair distribution of goods and services. You need some restrictions. Exterience has taught us that when wage levels reach 50% between 2 countries there is little mass migration. In the EU the treaty of Rome guarantees freedom of movement. Temporary restrictions were imposed on Bulgaria and Romania. Britain is going to lift these ahead of schedule. There is NAFTA which I call NAFF TA. In contrast there is no committment on anyone to open up borders at any point. The dregs of the Conservative Party and the UKIP. (The UK independence party) put forward NAFF TA as a substitute for the EU. It isn't. At 50% you get an increase in standard of living but because of increased costs not enough to justify movement. The vital question. Can Mexico and Latin America in general be brought to 50% of the US and if not why not? If NAFTA can't do it what is the use of NAFTA? If the US does not have mobility of labor it can never set itself up against the EU. I would also like to point out that services are cheaper down south. I think that Spanish speakers should have cheaper health insurance. That would persuade people to learn. - Ian Parker [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [PNEWS-L] Re: Help remove jewwatch from google's search engine please ( and pass on]
The day you and others, just like in China, can determine what is not allowed on the net is the day the InterNUT is dead. Hank On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, donnella whitacre wrote: WE have a right to express our free speech and many of us believe that site should be shut down, it isn't any thing but an anti semetic rag, aimed at bringing israel down. if you don't think so, or don't want it shu t down by all means don't sign the petition, don't protest it. the majority will win i guess Bill Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where does Free Speech stop? Thomas Braun wrote: when it incites murder And who is the arbiter of just when it's inciting enough to incite murder? You?
[PNEWS-L] Pressuring Israel to Get Out of Israel
Pressuring Israel to Get Out of Israel Pursuant to the so-called Roadmap for Peace, Israel was pressured by the Bush administration to give up Gaza. On February 3rd, 2004, this report was written as a case against Israeli withdrawal from Gaza. It is not just a religious issue. It if was I could not support holding on to Gaza. It has been a historic right of Jews to live in Gaza. For security purposes it has been crucial for Israel to continue to hold on to the Gaza and permit Jewish settlement there. As a progressive I endorse the report because of the historic right Jews have to live anywhere but especially where they have always lived before. I also support the report because it sends the wrong message to those who cannot be reasoned with and will only encourage more acts of terrorism against Israel. Granted it will make it easier for Israel to target the Gaza but this will also lead to more condemnation from the world community and Israel's image will suffer more than it already has. I do not believe it will lead to peace nor will it improve Israel's already tarnished reputation. I think it is a mistake to allow Bush to dictate policy to Israel. I am also opposed to the creation of a Palestinian state which will always be hostile to Israel because all surveys show the vast majority of so-called Palestinian Arabs are hostile to Israel. Therefore the best solution would have been transfer of Arabs not willing to live with Israeli sovereignty and to immediately annex all territory under Israeli control and reinforce all boundaries with the IDF and all technological means available to it. (Anotherwords, establish ONE state and invite Arabs to live there) The day after Gaza was relinquished the borders were opened to the trafficking of weapons from Egypt to be used against Israeli civilians and the PA refused to stop it. Continued here: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/GaZA.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Vainglorious Humans
Vainglorious Humans Life is pretty lousy for most of the people on the planet. Do you think those who are miserable all their lives, who like many on this planet live like animals, scavenging for morsels of food and a card board box or piece of tin for shelter are as attached to their lives as much as we are? Do you think they would mind blowing themselves up if they thought in the after-life they would not be hungry? Surely this while not the primary reason for terrorism is certain motivation for some to volunteer to get out of this life. Despite pledges made at three major international conferences on food since 1974, about 36 million people are still dying from hunger directly or indirectly every year, Jean Siegler, special rapporteur of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights, said Monday. Siegler, who authored the 15-page report, says that millions of people continue to suffer from hunger or are driven to early death from starvation and chronic nourishment. * Thalif Deen, Inter Press Service English News Wire; 10/29/2002 - U.N. says rich nations fail pledge to end world hunger Every seven seconds a child under 10 years of age dies from the direct or indirect effects of hunger. Malnutrition handicaps children for life -- brain cells do not develop, bodies are stunted, and blindness and diseases become rife. (Deen) All this happens, he says, in a world that already produces more than enough food to feed the global population. Hunger is not a question of fate; hunger is the result of human action or inaction, he adds. (Deen) Evolution is accepted by the most people and practically all scientists as much as theories can become fact when there is enough probability for it to be so and no other theory yet exists that would contradict it - so most of us accept that Charles Darwin was right and we are distant relatives of Lizards and more recent relatives of Chimpanzees. Continued here: http://pnews.org/ArT/YuR/VaiN.shtml
[PNEWS-L] What We Know
We even have a pretty good idea about our solar system and we're learning more all the time about the universe but it then gets to be too complicated to wrap our minds around when we think about the galaxy. We know light beams are bombarding us at 186,000 miles a second, from the sun which is 93 million miles away, where it is produced by nuclear fussion, which our scientists can produce for only a few seconds at a time, but not long enough to give us the energy of the sun which would be a lot safer than what is now produced by nuclear fission. We know that our body's cells are metabolizing sugar (glucose) to keep us at a constant temperature of almost 100 degrees, without which we would die. We know coffee keeps us more alert by constricting blood vessels with a stimulant called norepinephrine is it is good for keeping blood pressure regulated (according to a recent medical journal report) and it also works well at reducing headaches. Hell, it may even be as good for you as aspirin which we all should take at my age at least once a day to keep our blood thiner and reduce heart attacks. And we know that we are constantly being radiated by trillions of subatomic particles called neutrinos and it doesn't hurt. When I think about our planet speeding around the sun at more than half a million miles an hour and about how fast my body is spinning like a top because the earth is also spinning at about 18 miles a second and our solar system spinning through our galaxy at 140 miles a second, and I think a natural tendency would be to want to hold on to something to keep from falling, but gravity keeps me up, whatever that is - because we haven't exactly figured that one out yet. All of these things are known science and are predictable. It is even predictable that we will be hit by a rather large asteroid sometime in the _near_ future. Also predictable is entropy, that everything proceeds toward unpredictability, disorder and chaos. But where does our solar system expand to and what is this void? We even understand why we die and we have the tools to do something about it and someday we might even attain immortality just by growing organs that wear out and altering our DNA. Continued here: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/EvO.shtml
Re: [PNEWS-L] Re: Help remove jewwatch from google's search engine please ( and pass on]
Of course I have seen it. I stand by the preposition that there should be NO censorship on the InterNUT. Yes, sites have a right to limit what they pay on their sites and in their forums - because they pay for it, but as for access on the net. NO. I want access to Islamic terrorist sites also and I want the Anarchist Cookbook published and available to whoever wants it. I want everyone to have access to guns but I too will have my guns. I want a police which won't beat up on African-Americans because some cops are racist pigs. I want everything out in the open and I want legislatures to do their business in the sunshine. I don't want government secrets unless they are done in the conduct of investigating planned aggression and I don't want executive privilege (no exceptions). Hank On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, donnella whitacre wrote: have you seen this site hank? did you look at it? it is nothing but a hate site. we may not be able to shut it down, but we can protest it and that is our right. as ian said were do you think this stuff is coming from? it is libel and lies against israel and we do fight that don't we? we have a right to point it out. it may not shut down but we make people aware of it, that is our free speech right and our constitutional right to have our say. i protest on sites that are nothing but islamic hate sites, if people get to racist in their posts about any one i would proest it. these sites spread lies and nothing else and feed these anti israeli nut cases , not with facts but bull. i don't mind real honest debate but that isnt' what is happening there. adar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The day you and others, just like in China, can determine what is not allowed on the net is the day the InterNUT is dead. Hank On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, donnella whitacre wrote: WE have a right to express our free speech and many of us believe that site should be shut down, it isn't any thing but an anti semetic rag, aimed at bringing israel down. if you don't think so, or don't want it shu t down by all means don't sign the petition, don't protest it. the majority will win i guess Bill Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where does Free Speech stop? Thomas Braun wrote: when it incites murder And who is the arbiter of just when it's inciting enough to incite murder? You? - Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [PNEWS-L] No Evidence for a Designer
Of course there is a plan Bob. It is called Natural Selection and it is a non-random choosing of that which shows the greatest fitness for successful reproduction. Too bad you can't understand the basics. It really isn't that difficult. I'm sure you can get your grandchildren to explain it to you. Hank On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, Bob Martin wrote: Welly welly welly well Hank certainly does know how to hurl the rhetorical feces, indicating a simian Chimps-at-their-first-fire level of emotional development consistent with his self-confessed views on the nature and purpose of life. What a piece of work is the Fundamentalist Evolutionist! Hank's Confession of Faith in the anti-religion of Orthodox Evolutionism ought to be nailed to the door of the Rabbinate in Jerusalem. But enough of sarcasm and mockery disguised as humor. Hank's prosaic statement brilliantly demonstrates the nihilism inherent in Orthodox Evolutionist anti-theology. Further, it gives us Freudian slip insight into the zeitgeist of the fanatical Evolutionist. From Hank's comment, I've extracted nine statements that turn out to be a neat summary of the basic tenents of Orthodox Evolutionism. I call it The Seven Pillars of Evolutionism: 1. There is No Plan 2. There is Natural Selection 3. There is Mutation 4. There is Fitness-Unfitness 5. There is Adaptation 6. There is Reproduction 7. There is Death Supporting the Seven Pillars are the Two Inferences: 1. Everybody who says there's a Creator or Intelligent Design is stupid. 2. Evidence that Im wrong doesn't need to be examined. The Seven Pillars are dogmatic injunctions that rank right up there with any Wahabi pre-jihad adhan. Together with the Inferences, they make a perfect catechism for the Orthodox Evolutionist. I can see them (the Ortho Evos), boldly staring at their naked selves in the wall-size mirror, firm in their anti-faith, repeating these statements over and over, meanwhile dreaming only of iterally and figuratively chasing their individual and collective monkey tails. Hank and Company if there is NO PLAN, then how can all the other intricately planned things exist? if there is NO Plan, then why do we have a sexual instinct? You're tripping down the same myopic path that Percival Lowell did when he scientifically proved there is life on Mars, q.v. http://www.bibliomania.com/2/1/69/116/21354/1/frameset.html Or maybe you're just stuck in Flatland http://www.eldritchpress.org/eaa/FL.HTM It's more correct to say you're living in Laputa http://www.jaffebros.com/lee/gulliver/ Be seeing you. Bob On 7/22/07, adar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gosh, Bob - You know nothing about evolution, do you? Evolution does not imply a plan. Where did you get that idea? Natural selection is the basis of evolution and it is predicated on mutations for fitness to adapt to an environment and to reproduce. Nothing more. Nothing less. You have one purpose in life and one purpose only: to fuck and have little Bobs. Then die. Everything else is gingerbread and aesthetics. Hank On Sun, 22 Jul 2007, Bob Martin wrote: Fundamentalist Evolutionists have a lot more faith and come to even more ridiculous conclusion than the most fanatical Wahabist (who believes in the literal truth of the Koran) or the hard-shell Christian (who believes that the Torah was written in King Jame's English). Evolutionists and run-of-the-mill Creationists have something in common: a comic-book notion of the Creator. Imagine that you find a pocket watch one day, laying in the street near your house. You'd really laugh if I insisted that this watch wasn't created, but that it self-organized after billions of years. Nothing (and nobody) created the watch, it just came into existence. And pocket watches led to shelf clocks, and that led to Big Ben. Big Ben evolved from a pocket watch. Pretty primitive and stupid thinking, right? But it's no more primitive and stupid than saying that we jes grew like Topsy. Yes, it's true that the mechanism called evolution is at work in the universe. But evolution implies a plan, a purpose, a goal towards which this process is working. And it implies a Creator. Materialistic, mechanistic notions of the universe are useful only up to a point. Eventually an honest person must admit that they really don't know how all of this got started. Equally important, how it all keeps going, and going, and going. God is the original Energizer Bunny. I think that Stan Tenen's research and documentation goes a long way towards resolving the apparent dilemma http://www.meru.org/ and hope that those of you die-hard Evolutionists with big brains will give his hypotheses a careful review. Here's another useful resourse for those interested in thinking and not merely adhereing to Fundamentalist Evolutionist dogma... http://www.torahscience.org/newsletter7.html On 7/21/07, Bill
[PNEWS-L] Not such a trick question
Who is unquestionably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanswer; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.? (Richard Dawkins) The Answer: God From The God Delusion 2007
[PNEWS-L] Chance Events
Although there are now many more humans than chimps, in the past, human populations were much smaller, and may have been fragmented into even smaller groups, Bakewell told LiveScience. So random events would play a more dominant role than natural selection in humans. Here is why: Under the process of natural selection, gene variants that are beneficial get selected for and become more common in a population over time. But genetic drift, a random process in which chance decides which alleles survive, also occurs. In smaller populations, a fortuitous break for one or two alleles can have a disproportionately greater impact on the overall genes of that population compared with a larger one. Chance events could also explain why the scientists found more gene variants that were either neutral and had no functional impact or negative changes that are involved in diseases. There is still much to learn, the scientists say, about human and chimp evolution. There are possibly a lot of differences between human and chimps that we don't know about, [perhaps] because there are differences in chimps that nobody has studied; a lot of studies tend to focus on humans, Bakewell (see link) said. MORE - continued: http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/ASup.shtml Hank Roth
[PNEWS-L] Quantum Reality - Quantum Evolution
Quantum Evolution Why is Life so special? We look around us and see thousands of phenomena the wind blowing in the trees, a car motoring along a road, a rock tumbling down a stream. We can peer through our telescopes to see further storms raging on Jupiter, volcanoes erupting on Io, stars forming in the Crab Nebula. But life seems vastly different from each of these. Does it obey the same rules? A clue to understanding life is the realisation that its dynamics are different than those that rule the non-living. For inanimate objects, the dynamics we see are the product of the disordered motion of billions of particles; they are a kind of average dynamics. At the macroscopic level we see patterns and order, but at the molecular level there is only chaos. But life is different. Inside living cells, there is order right down to the level of that single molecule that governs the form of every creature that lives or has ever lived: DNA. Living dynamics are not a product of chaos but of the highly structured action directed by the molecular ringmaster: DNA. We have all been brought up on the neodarwinian synthesis of Darwinian natural selection with Mendelian genetics that states that the only significant lifestyle change to befall any microbe mutations are entirely random. The dogma states that mutations provide the raw material for evolution but natural selection provides the direction of evolutionary change. This dogma has been the central plank of evolutionary theory for nearly a century. But is it always true? (Dr. Johnjoe McFadden) See article: Go here: http://pnews.org/ArT/TrU/QuantumEvolution.shtml Hank Roth http://pnews.org/
[PNEWS-L] Genetic Information Technology
Genetic Information Technology As molecular computing devices we are much more efficient than the most efficient machanical/electronic computers. There is research and advancement being made, much of it originating in Israel to create molecular DNA computing systems, and I have no doubt they will be sucessful. Some of the finest scientists in the world are in Israel. Some of these will have medical applications which will greatly alleviate suffering. Electronic computers didn't start that way. I remember the early systems were largely mechanical and I worked directly with systems which used tubes before there were solid state and computer chips. We have come far in a short period of time not only toward understanding what makes the mind work, but everything else, and a theory for almost everything, with the help of computers and new theories in science, building blocks of knowledge, each building upon the other with the help of our computing machines. Who would have ever even considered the concept of string and chaos theory a decade ago? When I took the test for my first ham radio license in 1955 who imagined then that we would now be communicating using satellites and portable cell phones. I certainly didn't. When I worked in the White House as voice security cryptologist who could guess that those mechanical wheel devices we used then in the 50s and 60s would today be computers which are infinitely faster and more efficient than anything I ever imagined. Go to the article: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/GIT.shtml Hank Roth http://pnews.org/
[PNEWS-L] Racism and Operation Wetback
Despite these efforts to decrease the flow, immigration continued to flourish in the United States during this time. By 1920 nearly 14 million out of the 105 million people living in the United States were foreigners. From this wave, Japanese immigrants experienced the worst state and federal antagonism. The Gentleman's Agreement of 1907, an accord between the United States and Japan to restrict Japanese migration, effectively ended the influx of Japanese nationals to the United States. California state law reinforced this anti-Japanese sentiment by prohibiting Japanese immigrants from owning property or leasing farmland. After World War I, Congress enacted the Quota Act, which limited the number of immigrants allowed to enter the United States to three percent of their nationality already residing in the country. Three years later, Congress decided to lower the quota to two percent. In 1942, California created the Bracero Program, a Mexican labor program that allowed California agricultural employers to temporarily contract with approximately two million Mexican nationals for their labor in the fields. The agricultural industry benefited from this cheap labor until 1964, long after World War I ended. In spite of the Bracero Program, between 1939 and 1954, the INS deported three million undocumented and documented Mexican immigrants and U.S. citizens through an anti-Mexican campaign known as Operation Wetback. Full Article - Immigration Law and Racism: http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/Imm.shtml Hank Roth http://pnews.org/
[PNEWS-L] World Caught Up in a Time Warp of Superstitution
It seems like the world is caught up in a time warp of superstition and hate and we have never really progressed very far toward choosing reason and enlightenment. Political emancipation in the late 18th and early 19th century was an emancipation from bondage of feudal, tyrannical governance which enabled Jews in European society to finally enter universities, own land, become engaged in various new forms of work and commerce not before available or open to them. The Enlightenment also opened up ideas and brought to Jews (and others) the ideas of Kant, Montesquieu, John Locke, Jean-Jacques Rousseau and it changed forever the intellectual life of the Jews. Traditional and medieval pre-modern views were problematic and no longer applicable or convenient nor congruous with modernity and progressive ideals. I can't imagine a world without the Enlightenment, yet there are still some fundamentalist and intractable religious positions which have no tolerance for progress. The opening up of the world to progress nevertheless did not prevent the Holocaust but should not be blamed for it. Before the Enlightenment we had the Crusades and Witches and Jews and Muslims being burned at the stake during the Inquisition and Jews blamed for the Black Plague. Some minds remained medieval and allowed the Holocaust to happen. It was not the Enlightenment which gave rise to the Holocaust but minds which were prejudiced by superstition and fascist dogmatism which gave rise to terrible atrocities perpetrated against others. We have the ability to reform our moral choices and Judaism has even greater potential because a large component of it is not predicated on faith but on reason. The Black D e a t h The 14th century was perhaps one of the bleakest with major turmoil and countless catastrophes of all kinds - sometimes compared by historians to the 19th century for it's major upheavals - and for the Jews it was a very difficult period. There were revolutions, witch hunts, uprisings, massacres and expulsions of Jews and natural calamities such as the great famine of 1315-1317 and the Black Death, a plague which was to strike in 1347-1349. Anarchy reigned in Germany and there were peasant revolts of the Low Countries and England and the Jacqueries of France at the end of the Hundred Years' War. During the famine, the result of a major climatic change, which was perhaps the worst in history in Europe people died in the streets and many turned to cannibalism. Flour was made from dregs of wine and pig droppings. MORE: http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/index.php/ChoosingReason
[PNEWS-L] A Cloud of Comforting Convictions
Every man, wherever he goes, is encompassed by a cloud of comforting convictions, which move with him like flies on a summer day. (Bertrand Russell, Sceptical Essays (1928)) We help neither the search for virtue nor the search for knowledge by denying how the world really is. (Massimo Pigliucci, Denying Evolution: Creationism, Scientism, and the Nature of Science (2002)) Where science scores over alternative world views is that we know our uncertainty, we can often measure its magnitude, and we work optimistically to reduce it. (Richard Dawkins, The Ancestor's Tale (2004)) A recent Tribune editorial (Science and Religion, Monday, August 7) appears to call for the teaching of creationism along with evolution in the public schools. This plea, however well intentioned, betrays a deep but common misunderstanding of both the nature of science and the weight of the evidence surrounding evolution. As one who has taught an upper-division evolution course at Utah State University for nearly 15 years, I am convinced that we scientists must do a better job of explaining precisely why we don't encourage or adopt this pluralistic approach to teaching biology in public or higher education. First and foremost, we don't teach creationism along with evolution for exactly the same reason we don't teach a flat-Earth model along with a round-Earth model in Earth science, or a proteins-as-genes model along with a nucleic acids-as-genes model in genetics. No Evidence for Creationism Continued: http://pnews.org/ArT/HuM/CrE.shtml
Re: [PNEWS-L] PLEASE counter these lies
This is very revealing. This is so revealing. Everyone take notice. Religious Judaism is clearly as much a threat as Islamism. Martin's words speak voluminously about what they intend. It is no wonder there is a post-Zionist academic rebuttal which you have heard referred to as the New Historians, though I prefer to call many of them honest and seekers of justice. Bob Martin says Zionism has never been about world domination. In the very next sentence(s) he says: Dominating a small part of the world, yes. Scoff and mock all you want, we'll eventually have a commonwealth that stretches from the Nile to the Euphrates, including the Eastern part of Africa down to Ethiopia, and the entire land presently occupied by Islam. Most of that land was historically Jewish from long before the advent of Islamic imperialism. They have _secret_ books, (he says) not published anywhere else, he says. They are banned elsewhere. I don't know about these books he speaks of, but I have heard the radical right wing in Israel of which he is very much part of and there will never be peace nor reconciliation as long as they are a force to be reckoned with in Israel. The only hope for justice is for all of us who consider ourselves progressives to support the progressive left wing in Israel Note, what he says about Peres and Rabin Is this what you learned from Rabin and Peres? Have you, like them, secretly reverted to Islam (at least to the Islamic political agenda)? Both of these men were from the left, the Labor Party, and both advocated for peace - and that makes them traitors to the right wing religious wingnuts in Israel. He obviously also supports the assassination of Rabin, as most of the right does and will not bring themselves to condemn this despicable hate crime. Jews against Jews. Just like during the time of the Maccabeans. Yes, this is definitely deja vu all over again. Thank you Bob for your honesty. You removed any doubt anyone could have about the right wing Israelis who unfortunately have too much influence but with the help of the left and an honest rebuttal and awareness you will be stopped and Israel will become a secular state with a constitution which guarantees human and civil rights for everyone, not just you Maccabean Jews. Hank -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:49:09 +0300 From: Bob Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PNEWS-L] PLEASE counter these lies Hank So that you understand the context of my comments, you should know that I made Aliyah in April of 2004. I suspect this doesn't mean much to you, being that you appear to have become something of a shill for the anti-Zionist pro-Islam crowd. But Aliyah still means something very important to me and to a few million other people. I'm at least as well read on the subject of Zionism as an average Israeli. Actually, maybe a little better read than an Israeli since I grew up in America and had access to ideas and books that were banned here and are still difficult to find. *Unlike Xianity and Islamianity, Zionism has never been about world domination.* Dominating a small part of the world, yes. Scoff and mock all you want, we'll eventually have a commonwealth that stretches from the Nile to the Euphrates, including the Eastern part of Africa down to Ethiopia, and the entire land presently occupied by Islam. Most of that land was historically Jewish from long before the advent of Islamic imperialism. *Zionism is the opposite of Islamic imperialism.* With Zionism has come a literal renewal of the land, and the emergence of a strong and vibrant economy. If Islam were capable of this, it would have done so long long ago. Islam is not capable of building such a culture. I wonder... how is it that you've come to this point where you're eager to use your knowledge and skills to undermine everything our ancestors worked for since at least 138 c.e.? It seems that you're not just content to undermine... you clearly delight in crushing all sense of hope and purpose in those of us who've not forgotten our history. Is this what you learned from Rabin and Peres? Have you, like them, secretly reverted to Islam (at least to the Islamic political agenda)? Bob
[PNEWS-L] Antisemitic Conspiracy Theories
The 9/11 attacks have fueled an entire new genre of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories leading to an environment where rumors about Jews are finding acceptance in the mainstream, (Abraham H. Foxman, ADL national director) There is the conspiracy theory which includes a vast Israeli spy ring in the U.S. which knew about the attacks but would not compromise its black ops in the U.S. by alerting the U.S., a rumor which had as its source, Fox News where Carl Cameron suggested that 100 Israelis, who claiming to be art students, but really spies, who had been incarcerated in the U.S. prior to the attack and knew about the attack. Of course it was nonsense, but much of what appears on FOX News is worthless nonsense. I was listening to a podcast last night of a broadcast from left wing radio where the speaker wove a tale of Israeli intrigue, about Jewish spies working for Israeli hi-tech companies in the U.S. spying on the U.S.: Comverse Infosys, a company which does wiretapping; and Amdocs, which is another telecommunications company which records EVERY telephone call made in the U.S. and their collusion with the Jewish owners of the Trade Centers, Larry Silverstein of Silverstein Properties and Frank Lowy of Westfield America and all of them were implicated in their wacko theory to blow up the towers for insurance and to blame it on the Arabs. Amiri Baraka, African-American poet, former poet laureate of New Jersey, in a poem, said: Somebody Blew Up America, and he blames it on the Jews and the Israelis. -- There is a lot to blame Israelis for - not least of which is being of many minds - but these conspiracy theories are just plain bogus nonsense -- Continued: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/CoNSP.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Irrationality is the Norm
It would seem, would it not (at least more so to Europeans than to Americans) that after several thousand years (perhaps 2,500 and more) that the most enlightened minds would by now agree that it is very unlikely that god exists and humans are made in His image or a soul exists and is immortal - or that god is guiding the human species in some determined direction. That would seem unlikely, wouldn't it? Science has been unable to definitively disprove the existence of god but religionists fail in the most reasoned and ignore their own inability to do the opposite - to provide evidence that god does exist. It seems that the irrational is the norm and it matters little that those who believe in god cannot prove god and truth or falsity is not part of this equation. They are so sure of their unproven belief and often pious as well in that faith in the unknown which they claim to know very well that some consider it offensive to question god and disreputable to even make an attempt to prove the existence of god. Many say it is feelings and feelings count ever bit as much as evidential proof. They are incapable of seeing the deception. Why and how can so many people be so convinced that they are willing to believe in something they just feel is right but every bit of new data and science points toward an opposite conclusion? They can and do so out of fear of death. Go here for more: http://pnews.org/bio/Liberalism.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Religious Tribalism
Religious tribalism is a wellspring of trouble. American sociologist Nathan Glazer propounded that ethnicity is the most powerful force in human events. Ethnic conflicts grow from differences in race, language, economics, locale, politics, culture and religion. Anything that divides people can spawn hostility, and religion is one of the strongest dividers. British anthropologist Desmond Morris , author of The Naked Ape, wrote in his 1977 book Manwatching, that religion is a cultural isolating mechanism because it demands social separation from those who worship in a different manner. It creates sects and breeds sectarian violence. Manwatching: A Field Guide to Human Behavior (New York: Harry N. Abrams, Inc., 1977), p. 149. Go here: http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/MoJ.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Racist Immigration Laws in Amerikkka
From Chinese Exclusion to General Asian Subordination The horrendous treatment of Chinese immigrants in the 1800s by federal, state, and local governments, as well as by the public at large, represents a bitter underside to U.S. history. Culminating the federalization of immigration regulation, Congress passed the infamous Chinese exclusion laws barring virtually all immigration of persons of Chinese ancestry and severely punishing Chinese immigrants who violated the harsh laws. Discrimination and violence, often rooted in class conflict as well as racist sympathies, directed at Chinese immigrants already in the United States, particularly in California, fueled passage of the laws. The efforts to exclude future Chinese immigrants from our shores can be seen as linked to the deeply negative attitude toward Chinese persons already in the country. The Supreme Court emphasized national sovereignty as the rationale for not disturbing the laws excluding the obnoxious Chinese from the United States. In the famous Chinese Exclusion Case, the Supreme Court stated that [t]he power of exclusion of foreigners [is] an incident of sovereignty belonging to the government of the United States, as a part of [[[its] sovereign powers delegated by the Constitution. Similarly, in Fong Yue Ting v. United States, the Court reasoned that [t]he right of a nation to expel or deport foreigners ... is as absolute and unqualified as the right to prohibit and prevent their entrance into the country. Congress later extended the Chinese exclusion laws to bar immigration from other Asian nations and to prohibit the immigration of persons of Asian ancestry from any nation. The so-called Gentleman's Agreement between the U.S. and Japanese Governments in 1907-08 greatly restricted immigration from Japan. The Immigration Act of 1917 expanded Chinese exclusion to prohibit immigration from the Asiatic barred zone. A 1924 law, best known for creating the discriminatory national origins quota system, allowed for the exclusion of noncitizens ineligible to citizenship, which affected Asian immigrants who as non-whites were prohibited from naturalizing. Continued: http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/Exc.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Criminalizing the Protest Movement and Dissent
Bush executive order: Criminalizing the antiwar movement By Prof. Michel Chossudovsky Global Research Jul 23, 2007, 00:59 The Executive Order entitled Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq provides the President with the authority to confiscate the assets of whoever opposes the US led war. A presidential Executive Order issued on July 17th, repeals with the stroke of a pen the right to dissent and to oppose the Pentagon's military agenda in Iraq. The Executive Order entitled Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq provides the President with the authority to confiscate the assets of certain persons who oppose the US led war in Iraq: I have issued an Executive Order blocking property of persons determined to have committed, or to pose a significant risk of committing, an act or acts of violence that have the purpose or effect of threatening the peace or stability of Iraq or the Government of Iraq or undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq or to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people. In substance, under this executive order, opposing the war becomes an illegal act. The Executive Order criminalizes the antiwar movement. It is intended to blocking property of US citizens and organizations actively involved in the peace movement. It allows the Department of Defense to interfere in financial affairs and instruct the Treasury to block the property and/or confiscate/ freeze the assets of Certain Persons involved in antiwar activities. It targets those Certain Persons in America, including civil society organizations, who oppose the Bush Administration's peace and stability program in Iraq, characterized, in plain English, by an illegal occupation and the continued killing of innocent civilians. The Executive Order also targets those Certain Persons who are undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction, or who, again in plain English, are opposed to the confiscation and privatization of Iraq's oil resources, on behalf of the Anglo-American oil giants. The order is also intended for anybody who opposes Bush's program of political reform in Iraq, in other words, who questions the legitimacy of an Iraqi government installed by the occupation forces. Moreover, those persons or nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), who provide bona fide humanitarian aid to Iraqi civilians, and who are not approved by the US Military or its lackeys in the US sponsored Iraqi puppet government are also liable to have their financial assets confiscated. The executive order violates the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments of the US Constitution. It repeals one of the fundamental tenets of US democracy, which is the right to free expression and dissent. The order has not been the object of discussion in the US Congress. So far, it has not been addressed by the US antiwar movement, in terms of a formal statement. Apart from a bland Associated Press wire report, which presents the executive order as an authority to use financial sanctions, there has been no media coverage or commentary of a presidential decision which strikes at the heart of the US Constitution.. Broader implications The criminalization of the State is when the sitting President and Vice President use and abuse their authority through executive orders, presidential directives or otherwise to define who are the criminals when in fact they are the criminals. This latest executive order criminalizes the peace movement. It must be viewed in relation to various pieces of anti-terrorist legislation, the gamut of presidential and national security directives, etc., which are ultimately geared towards repealing constitutional government and installing martial law in the event of a national emergency. The war criminals in high office are intent upon repressing all forms of dissent which question the legitimacy of the war in Iraq. The executive order combined with the existing anti-terrorist legislation is eventually intended to be used against the anti-war and civil rights movements. It can be used to seize the assets of antiwar groups in America as well as block the property and activities of non-governmental humanitarian organizations providing relief in Iraq, seizing the assets of alternative media involved in a reporting the truth regarding the US-led war, etc. In May 2007, Bush issued a major presidential National Security Directive (National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive NSPD 51/HSPD 20), which would suspend constitutional government and instate broad dictatorial powers under martial law in the case of a Catastrophic Emergency (e.g. Second 9/11 terrorist attack). On July 11, 2007, the CIA published its National Intelligence Estimate which pointed to an imminent Al Qaeda attack on America, a second 9/11 which, according to the
[PNEWS-L] War Powers of George W. Bush
1984 has happened in 2007 - Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, as amended (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)(IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.)(NEA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that, due to the unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by acts of violence threatening the peace and stability of Iraq and undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq and to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people, it is in the interests of the United States to take additional steps with respect to the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 of May 22, 2003, and expanded in Executive Order 13315 of August 28, 2003, and relied upon for additional steps taken in Executive Order 13350 of July 29, 2004, and Executive Order 13364 of November 29, 2004. I hereby order: Section 1. (a) Except to the extent provided in section 203(b)(1), (3), and (4) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1702(b)(1), (3), and (4)), or in regulations, orders, directives, or licenses that may be issued pursuant to this order, and notwithstanding any contract entered into or any license or permit granted prior to the date of this order, all property and interests in property of the following persons, that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of United States persons, are blocked and may not be transferred, paid, exported, withdrawn, or otherwise dealt in: any person determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense, (i) to have committed, or to pose a significant risk of committing, an act or acts of violence that have the purpose or effect of: (A) threatening the peace or stability of Iraq or the Government of Iraq; or (B) undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq or to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people; (ii) to have materially assisted, sponsored, or provided financial, material, logistical, or technical support for, or goods or services in support of, such an act or acts of violence or any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order; or (iii) to be owned or controlled by, or to have acted or purported to act for or on behalf of, directly or indirectly, any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order. (b) The prohibitions in subsection (a) of this section include, but are not limited to, (i) the making of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services by, to, or for the benefit of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order, and (ii) the receipt of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services from any such person. Sec. 2. (a) Any transaction by a United States person or within the United States that evades or avoids, has the purpose of evading or avoiding, or attempts to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited. (b) Any conspiracy formed to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited. Sec. 3. For purposes of this order: (a) the term person means an individual or entity; (b) the term entity means a partnership, association, trust, joint venture, corporation, group, subgroup, or other organization; and (c) the term United States person means any United States citizen, permanent resident alien, entity organized under the laws of the United States or any jurisdiction within the United States (including foreign branches), or any person in the United States. Sec. 4. I hereby determine that the making of donations of the type specified in section 203(b)(2) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1702(b)(2)) by, to, or for the benefit of, any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order would seriously impair my ability to deal with the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 and expanded in Executive Order 13315, and I hereby prohibit such donations as provided by section 1 of this order. Sec. 5. For those persons whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order who might have a constitutional presence in the United States, I find that, because of the ability to transfer funds or other assets instantaneously, prior notice to such persons of measures to be taken pursuant to this order would render these measures ineffectual. I therefore determine that
[PNEWS-L] Vainglorious Humans
Vainglorious Humans Life is pretty lousy for most of the people on the planet. Do you think those who are miserable all their lives, who like many on this planet live like animals, scavenging for morsels of food and a card board box or piece of tin for shelter are as attached to their lives as much as we are? Do you think they would mind blowing themselves up if they thought in the after-life they would not be hungry? Surely this while not the primary reason for terrorism is certain motivation for some to volunteer to get out of this life. Despite pledges made at three major international conferences on food since 1974, about 36 million people are still dying from hunger directly or indirectly every year, Jean Siegler, special rapporteur of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights, said Monday. Siegler, who authored the 15-page report, says that millions of people continue to suffer from hunger or are driven to early death from starvation and chronic nourishment. * Thalif Deen, Inter Press Service English News Wire; 10/29/2002 - U.N. says rich nations fail pledge to end world hunger Every seven seconds a child under 10 years of age dies from the direct or indirect effects of hunger. Malnutrition handicaps children for life -- brain cells do not develop, bodies are stunted, and blindness and diseases become rife. (Deen) All this happens, he says, in a world that already produces more than enough food to feed the global population. Hunger is not a question of fate; hunger is the result of human action or inaction, he adds. (Deen) Continued here: http://pnews.org/ArT/YuR/VaiN.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Israel's Existence
() I do not think that an academic boycott of Israeli universities is correct in principle. Boycotts of universities always undermine academic freedom which must be seen as undesirable. The Chinese occupation of Tibet (for nearly 5 decades) has not provoked a call for a boycott for this reason. Exchanging ideas, debating issues, working on common projects, collaborative publishing ventures are valuable in and of themselves. (Strawson) The university sector in Israel is currently under attack from the right wing for being too liberal, particularly on the Palestine question. Many academics need our support. (Strawson) As usual many false claims have been made. There was the well-known accusation, often repeated, that Israeli universities do not permit debate on the Palestinian issue. This was a lie. There is no curb on Israeli academic freedom. As a matter of fact there in at least as many, if not more LEFT wing academics in Israel and Israeli academics have a tradition of questioning authority and the prevailing wisdom no less than the people of Israel constantly complain and question authority and prevailing views. There is likely more diversity of opinion in Israel than anywhere else on the planet. Criticism, the more particularly as university teachers should be expected to understand it, implies the free exchange of judgment and idea, the give and take - however harsh - of argument and counter-argument. Anything less is merely the closing of minds. And a boycott - especially a boycott of thinkers, scientists, philosophers, etc, those for whom open-mindedness should be paramount - is an expression of the closing of minds en masse. (Howard Jacobson, The Evening Standard (London, England); 4/27/2005) No other country has been singled out for similar treatment. No boycotting of Chinese universities, or universities in African or Arab countries where infringements of human rights are state sponsored and racism is so routine it is part of the curriculum. (ibid) `Jewish science' was how the Nazis referred to psychoanalysis and relativity. Because Freud and Einstein were Jewish, the German people had to be protected from the contamination of their work. Now the contaminating science is not Jewish but Israeli. Which we are told is somehow different. (ibid) () Read the rest at: http://pnews.org/ArT/WaR/DeB.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Claims to Territory
No One Has Been Deported No One Has Been Transferred Some claim the settlements are illegal, but there is no clear legal precedence that would establish that they are illegal and while many of Israel's opponents speak of them as if their illegality was some universal accepted truth, that allegation is far from clear nor is it a credible truth. No international law has been abrogated. The case for the illegality of the Jewish settlements in the West Bank rests largely on a single source: article 49(6) in the fourth Geneva Convention of 1949. This article states that an occupying military power shall not deport or transfer part of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies. Yet, as several international jurists have pointed out, not only has Israel deported or transferred no one to the settlements, whose inhabitants are there of their own free will, it is by no means clear that Israel was ever, legally, in the position of being an occupying power. (Halkin) This is because, in 1967, Israel had as good a claim as anyone to the West Bank, which in effect belonged to no government. The Jordanian annexation of the area, while acquiesced in by the same Palestinian leadership that had rejected the 1947 U.N. partition resolution, was unrecognized by most of the world, and Jordan itself had refused to make peace with Israel or to consider their joint border more than a temporary cease-fire line. A reasonable case could thus be made that, as the sole sovereign state to have emerged from British-mandated Palestine, Israel had not only the right but the duty to act as the West Bank's civil administrator pending determination of the area's status. (Halkin) The conventional wisdom is also wrong in asserting--a frequently made claim--that continued settlement activity on the part of Israel is a violation of the 1993 Oslo accords. The plain fact of the matter is that nowhere in that agreement was there any reference to the settlements, apart from a single paragraph stating that--along with Jerusalem, refugees, and other issues of common interest--their fate was to be settled in final-status negotiations. This was hardly an oversight. The Palestinians wanted a settlement freeze and fought for one at Oslo; if they did not get it, this is only because in the end they accepted the Israeli refusal to agree to one. In repeatedly demanding one anyway over the ensuing years, it is they, not the Israelis, who have gone back on the document they signed. (Halkin) At the Khartoom Conference in 1967 when ARABS stated emphatically their opposition to any reconciliation with Israel - to NO resolution of any peace accords with Irael. The THREE NOS were and still are: NO to peace with Israel No to recognition of Israel No to negotiations with Israel Neither has the PLO Charter ever been changed which vows the destruction of the State of Israel... YET, Wolfowitz and George Bush are also advocating for a hostile Palestinian state, the removal of the settlements and pressure on Israel to restrain it's response to terrorism. NONE of these conditions would be acceptable to America. America invades other sovereign nations, it ignores international accords when it suits us and America settled a territory belonging to Mexico and 1/3rd of it's size which was annexed by the United States. Read it all at: http://pnews.org/art/12art/1IsCollective.shtml
[PNEWS-L] Human Apes
Scientist Matt Ridley suggests that whatever the mechanism, we can guess that our ancestors were a small isolated band, while those of the chimpanzees were the main race. We can guess this because we know from the genes that human beings went through a much tighter geneitc bottleneck (i.e. a small population size) than chimpanzees ever did: there is much less random variability in the human genome than the chimp genome. (Also see A. Rogers and R.B. Jorde (95) Genetic Evidence and Modern Human Origins, Human Biology 67: 1-36). Matt Ridley's book is Genome, the Autobiography of a Species in 23 chapters (2000) - corresponding to 23 pairs of chromozomes. He writes: So let us picture this isolated group of animals on an island, real or virtual. Becoming inbred, flirting with extinction, exposed to the forces of the genetic founder effect (by which small populations can have large genetic changes thanks to chance), this little band of (not quiet yet human) apes shares a large mutation: two of their chromosomes have become fused. (Chimps have 24 pairs of chromosomes and Homo sapiens have 23. Ridley suggests that two of them fused to make the 23) Henceforth they can breed only with their own kind, even when the `island' rejoins the `mainland'. Hybrids between them and their mainland cousins are infertile. Read the rest at: http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/index.php/HumanApes
