The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 336 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: <E30> Diff removal IX lust overcomes reason? Re: IX lust overcomes reason? Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:47:44 -0700 From: "Damon at gmx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Neil, What Michael said! Also there are others who make custom springs. I get springs made all the time at this place: http://www.bettsspring.com/coil/ Don't know if they could wind a spring with ends on it like is on the back of an E36 though. By the way H&R and Eibach are here: http://www.hrsprings.com/ http://www.eibach.com/cgi-bin/start.exe/eibach/index.html -Damon '94 325i '95 993 >"Michael Lawrence" wrote: > > If I am not mistaken, several different companies would make custom springs. > I have seen sets of H&R and Eibach that were special ordered for spring > rates. No idea on price but was told by the clubracer it was only a few > hundred more for the set. >>"Neil N." wrote: >> >>Riiiiiiiiight... And how do you do that? >>>Damon at gmx wrote: >>> > > > Neil, > > > > > > Cutting the spring will result in making the spring > > > stiffer. If you want to > > > keep the spring rate equal to what you have but with > > > a lower ride height, > > > you need to get a new spring with the same diameter > > > wire and coil and same > > > number of coils, but with a smaller freelength. > > > > > > -Damon > > > '94 325i > > > '95 993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:17:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- JKerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Better way with non-concentric shapes is to torch the end coils to > nearly red hot. Yeah, heating up the springs won't at all effect the metallurgy and the physical nature of the springs or weakening the springs making them less safe or anything like that... > To make the job look clean and professional, clean the spring where > you just burned the paint by torching it, and spray a few light coats of > Krylon glossy black. I never thought I would see "professional" and "Krylon" in the same sentence... ;-) At a minimum, having the springs shot peened would seem wise (although I don't recommend having them heated up red hot and collapsed). Regards, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:58:11 -0700 From: JKerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The temperatures MAPP or propane gas can heat the spring steel up to won't result in structural failure within the limited amount of flex the end coils move. Heating and shortening springs is a common practice. You're welcome check out the stock appearing front springs on my //M3 or bring me a set and I'll be glad to heat and shorten them for you. As with anything on this list, take what you like, and leave the rest. Barry Richard Dorffer wrote: > <>--- JKerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Better way with > non-concentric shapes is to torch the end coils to > nearly red hot. > >Yeah, heating up the springs won't at all effect the metallurgy and the physical >nature of the >springs or weakening the springs making them less safe or anything like that... > >> To make the job look clean and professional, clean the spring where >>you just burned the paint by torching it, and spray a few light coats of >>Krylon glossy black. >> >> > >I never thought I would see "professional" and "Krylon" in the same sentence... >;-)At a minimum, having the springs shot peened would seem wise (although I don't >recommend having >them heated up red hot and collapsed). >Regards,Rich > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:49:28 -0700 From: "Damon at gmx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "JKerouac" wrote > Better way with non-concentric shapes is to torch the end coils to > nearly red hot. <snip> > However this method will result in a shorter but stock > appearing spring that gives a greater effective rate. Unless you are actually removing metal (cutting off part of the spring) the spring rate will remain about the same. This method will not increase the spring rate. It might seem to the people in the car that the spring rate goes up, since with a shorter spring the car might be resting more on the bump rubber. Compressing the bump rubber more will add to the effective spring rate. But the spring itself will not get stiffer. On the other hand, it might wear out quicker! -Damon '94 325i '95 993 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:10:18 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: <E30> Diff removal Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Any special tools or techniques needed to remove the differential from the E30? Are the flange bolts square ("Allen") form or Torqs? What about torques? Use of Loctite etc. (Sorry for the questions, but the Bentley hasn't arrived and we're pre-planning). -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:35:33 -0400 (EDT) From: John Drendel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: IX lust overcomes reason? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sunday afternoon I saw an ad for a ix in the paper under my my coffee cup and I bit. I've owned six BMWs since 1974, including 3 E30's (I keep'em a long time...), but I've always wanted an IX for Montreal's winters. One never came my way at the same time as the change to buy it. Francisco wanted 3400 Canadian, which I figure is low, but hell, it's the end of August, and I'm the only Montrealer thinking of a winter car this week. So I thought. At 5 o'clock I met him at the Walmart parking lot. Nice guy, doesn't know much about BMW's, but this one "needs shock absorbers". Here in the "pays du sel", first thing we check is for rust, and this one looked okay, with a nice 2'd paint job. Nothing visible in the shock towers or the spare tire well, only a couple of bubbles on the sunroof. Very clean interior. Odomoter shows 189,000, about 113,000 miles, which is my lucky number, just about where every BMW I've ever owned was when I bought it. Seats wear matches those numbers. Well, okay, I check fluids, ATF isn't burnt, some metal precipitated in the coolant reservoir. Then his cell rings. Now my purchase protocol is pretty simple, have the car checked out by a mechanic friend, deduct the inflated repair estimate from bluebook, plus a few hundred, and go from there. But it's Sunday. The phone rings again. Another maybe buyer. "It's been ringing all day", he says, "and two guys have already seen it. One want's to have it checked out tomorrow." Against my will, I feel the blood rise in my face. This is not from where I want to bargain. I look again at the underside of the hood -- no sign of overheating. I start the engine and let it run while I investigate the wheel wells. "I know it's cheap but It needs work,' says Francisco, "I can't afford to fix it". I get in. I can't put it on the freeway, because my little girl is asleep in the back seat of my own E28 535i, but the parking lot is clearing out (stores close at 5 on Sunday) so I get in, and accellerate. There is a big clunk from under my feet, but it goes away as I come up to speed. I do two fast, tight turns, right and left, to see what the front end is up to. Seems pretty tight. The phone rings again. With the car idle, the temperature guage is straight up. But that clunk! I'ts got to be the drive train, and in an Ix it's not going to be cheap. Plus there is not documentation at all, and Francisco has never heard of a timing belt. If I want this car, I have to decide right now. Well Jenny Morgan said in last June's Roundel that it cost 2000 US for the parts to switch an IX from auto to 5 speed, so 3 grand canadian in repairs is probably what I risk at most. I decide that my price is 3000, offer 2400, and we settle on 2900, US$2000. I give him 100 cash in deposit. The phone rings again. They want to know what I'm offering. But Francisco's a straight shooter, and on Monday, I have the title in my hand and the car in a garage where it won't be started until I change the timing belt. That's the story so far. What do you think? John Drendel Departement d'Histoire Universite du Quebec a Montreal CP 8888 Succ. "Centreville" Montreal Qc. Canada H3C 3P8 514 987 3000 3687# ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:07:53 -0500 From: Jenny Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: John Drendel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "[uucdigest] list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: IX lust overcomes reason? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sounds like it may be slipping the forward driveshaft... bad flex discs,... mounts... Hard to say without hearing the klunk, and feeling it. Ya 2K or so for an iX 5 speed swap - parts. Assuming the bones yard understands what you are trying to do, so that you get truly complete assemblies. You know, pedals and widgets, tranny and widgets... It's the widgets that getcha... Price sounds about right. DO THE T BELT IMMEDIATELY, the water pump, hoses and belts and probably front seals. DON'T drive it til ya do. Jenny Morgan On Aug 26, 2004, at 6:35 PM, John Drendel wrote: > 3400 Canadian, which I figure is low, but > hell, it's the end of August, and I'm the only Montrealer thinking of > a winter car this week. > Odomoter shows 189,000, about 113,000 > miles, which is my lucky number, just about where every BMW I've ever > owned was when I bought it. Seats wear matches those numbers. Well, > okay, I check fluids, ATF isn't burnt, some metal precipitated in > the > coolant reservoir. > There is a big clunk from under my feet, but it goes > away as I come up to speed. I do two fast, tight turns, right and > left, to see what the front end is up to. > and Francisco has never heard of a timing belt. If I want this car, I > have to decide right now. > Well Jenny Morgan said in last June's > Roundel that it cost 2000 US for the parts to switch an IX from auto > to 5 speed, ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:04:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Anneal the spring, compress so it yields and becomes shorter, then re heat-treat. Gary Derian --- "Neil N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Riiiiiiiiight... And how do you do that? > > :-) > > Neil > > --- Damon at gmx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Neil, > > > > Cutting the spring will result in making the > spring > > stiffer. If you want to > > keep the spring rate equal to what you have but > with > > a lower ride height, > > you need to get a new spring with the same > diameter > > wire and coil and same > > number of coils, but with a smaller freelength. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:26:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Neil N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sorry, I'm a layman. Could you perhaps expand on that, and how would a normal person do it to both springs with any accuracy? Not possible? Neil --- Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Anneal the spring, compress so it yields and becomes > shorter, then re heat-treat. > Gary Derian > > --- "Neil N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Riiiiiiiiight... And how do you do that? > > > > :-) > > > > Neil > > > > --- Damon at gmx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Neil, > > > > > > Cutting the spring will result in making the > > spring > > > stiffer. If you want to > > > keep the spring rate equal to what you have but > > with > > > a lower ride height, > > > you need to get a new spring with the same > > diameter > > > wire and coil and same > > > number of coils, but with a smaller freelength. > > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 00:07:41 -0400 From: Brian Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'll take a shot at it. Basically Gary's suggesting aquiring much of the knowledge and equipment necessary to open your own spring manufacturing business. ;-) Brian '94 325ic Neil N. wrote: >Sorry, I'm a layman. Could you perhaps expand on >that, and how would a normal person do it to both >springs with any accuracy? Not possible? > >Neil > >--- Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >>Anneal the spring, compress so it yields and becomes >>shorter, then re heat-treat. >>Gary Derian >> >> >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:24:33 -0700 From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Well the annealing part is easy. Just put it in the oven until it's white. No red. Maybe bright pink. But the smushing part is even easier. When it's glowing brightly, just set it down and step on it. Use a ruler to get the length right. Heat treat is a little more involved. Put it back in the oven. You might want to use a thermometer. You'll probably want to oil quench, so have a bucket of waste oil handy from your past oil changes. Careful letting too much oxygen around the bucket. It might start a fire when you drop that big ol' glowing spring in there. :) On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 12:07:41AM -0400, Brian Daley wrote: > I'll take a shot at it. Basically Gary's suggesting aquiring much of > the knowledge and equipment necessary to open your own spring > manufacturing business. ;-) > >--- Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>Anneal the spring, compress so it yields and becomes > >>shorter, then re heat-treat. -- "It is an honor to be Cookie Monster." -Sesame Street spokeswoman Audrey Shapiro ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 00:41:50 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >But the smushing part is even >easier. When it's glowing brightly, just set it down and step on it. OMG.. Thats funny. Should you maybe say "just kidding" to avoid the possoble Darwin Awardee actually trying this and branding their foot to the bone!!!??? Laughin, Jon ______________________________________________ Jon Siccardi TreehouseRacing.com - Home of the Eyeball Arm Apex Motorsports LLC - Where fast is good M50conversion.com Noble M12 Installation Site 615.500.1331 ______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bolhuis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [UUC] E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. > Well the annealing part is easy. Just put it in the oven until it's > white. No red. Maybe bright pink. But the smushing part is even > easier. When it's glowing brightly, just set it down and step on it. > Use a ruler to get the length right. Heat treat is a little more > involved. Put it back in the oven. You might want to use a thermometer. > You'll probably want to oil quench, so have a bucket of waste oil handy > from your past oil changes. Careful letting too much oxygen around the > bucket. It might start a fire when you drop that big ol' glowing spring > in there. :) > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 12:07:41AM -0400, Brian Daley wrote: > > I'll take a shot at it. Basically Gary's suggesting aquiring much of > > the knowledge and equipment necessary to open your own spring > > manufacturing business. ;-) > > > >--- Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>Anneal the spring, compress so it yields and becomes > > >>shorter, then re heat-treat. > > -- > "It is an honor to be Cookie Monster." > -Sesame Street spokeswoman Audrey Shapiro > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 05:20:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well the annealing part is easy. Just put it in the oven until it's > white. No red. Maybe bright pink. But the smushing part is even > easier. When it's glowing brightly, just set it down and step on it. > Use a ruler to get the length right. Heh, Neil you asked for it. Gary gave you the proper answer, it is the reader's task to figure out how to accomplish this (as John did). I would think at this point, going over all the responses you've received I would go back to your original idea. Get a rear height adjuster and buy yourself some linear rate coilover springs and maybe bump up the spring rate a tad to get rid of some of the understeer. Keep an eye on Turner's website they sell used coilover springs, strike when you see a set that will work for you (I've done this several times) <g>. Or as someone else wisely suggested get a set of H&R race springs if the rates are close enough to the sports but give you a lower ride height. Personally if you don't want coilovers but you want a great handling E36 I would just buy the Turner I/H-stock kit, I believe it's a matched set of aggressive race springs and revalved Bilsteins. I may do that on my 325 with the addition of camber plates up front and call it good. Carlos 93 325is 88 325is __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 06:09:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Neil N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks to all the di-jesters (bad pun intended) who responded... Do you think I could properly anneal the springs in my niece's E-Z Bake Oven? Anyhow, the issue with just going to 60mm race springs is that because of their short length, and the resulting short free travel until coilbind, I'm afraid that at a rate like 400, even at rest, the car would be very near full spring compression of a 160mm tall spring. As for the I-stock, that doesn't give me any height adjustability in the rear either, so I could be left with a similar problem. If I were going to spend $1,200, I think I would just go for the full $1,900 and get the Gp. N. Does anyone know what increase in spring rate would accompany the removal of the rear swaybar (roughly)? Thanks, Neil --- Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well the annealing part is easy. Just put it in > the oven until it's > > white. No red. Maybe bright pink. But the > smushing part is even > > easier. When it's glowing brightly, just set it > down and step on it. > > Use a ruler to get the length right. > > Heh, Neil you asked for it. Gary gave you the > proper answer, it is the > reader's task to figure out how to accomplish this > (as John did). I > would think at this point, going over all the > responses you've received > I would go back to your original idea. Get a rear > height adjuster and > buy yourself some linear rate coilover springs and > maybe bump up the > spring rate a tad to get rid of some of the > understeer. Keep an eye on > Turner's website they sell used coilover springs, > strike when you see a > set that will work for you (I've done this several > times) <g>. > > Or as someone else wisely suggested get a set of H&R > race springs if > the rates are close enough to the sports but give > you a lower ride > height. Personally if you don't want coilovers but > you want a great > handling E36 I would just buy the Turner I/H-stock > kit, I believe it's > a matched set of aggressive race springs and > revalved Bilsteins. I may > do that on my 325 with the addition of camber plates > up front and call > it good. > > Carlos > 93 325is > 88 325is > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We > finish. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 06:40:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Neil N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 rear ride height, race spring rates, etc. Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- "Neil N." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As for the I-stock, that doesn't give me any height > adjustability in the rear either, so I could be left > with a similar problem. If I were going to spend > $1,200, I think I would just go for the full $1,900 > and get the Gp. N. Group N you say? Where? Who? Link please. Carlos (shopping for a race suspension) 93 325is 88 325is __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
