RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Great review, Bob. Gotta love it! Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 9:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options OK...Lets have a review.. It does not use the whole band. It has GPS sync so you can use multiple links on the same channel. That makes it efficient... It works for the application.. There is a big difference of opinion here regarding spectrum usage. My way of seeing it is as follows. 1. I always install links with the largest possible antennas to keep my beamwidth as narrow as possible regardless of distance. In NYC I consistently use 2' antennas for links one mile or less. 2. We use only the power we need to do the job. Many of our links are running 0-5 dB of output at the radio. 3. We always mount antennas using rooftop structures or adjacent buildings to shield us from others. 4. Interference happens. We have not had any interference with FD constant carrier radios. Period. Another position is why should several users be allowed to use equipment that eats up the band passing say a simple video stream and such?? How is that "efficient" They are eating channels running a couple of megs.I'm eating it running 100 Mb FD. How about the WISP's that are using 120* sector antennas and throwing RF all over the place every time one of his 3 subscribers decides to use their system?? How is that spectrum efficency??? Or the guy that uses an omni and the 1 watt amp??? I can go on and on. The spectrum is limited. That sucks. But business is business and it is important to do what is necessary to provide for your business at the most cost effective manner possible. Is WalMart going to be considerate of you if you have a little 5 & 10 store on the next block??? Of course not. And why??? Because they are serving the masses at a price that the masses want and that is what it takes to serve the masses. Will some of the 5&10 operators go out of business because they can't compete?? Sure they will. Its called competition. And that is just what Matt is doing. If he has the demand then he needs to do what is necessary. If his business model does not allow him to purchase expensive licensed equipment over cheaper unlicensed equipment then so be it. That's business. I came from the 2 way radio industry. I fought the beast (Nextel) for several years before it finally killed the 2-way radio industry. I was somewhat fortunate because we did predominately Public Safety and Government accounts. We were the ones to get up at 2AM on a Sunday to fix a base station while all the 2-way shops that were doing 9-5 business customers were home sleeping. When nextel killed 2-way dispatch all the other radio shops decided to start fixing Public safety and Govt customer equip. The labor rate went from $100 per hour to $40 per hour just so guys could survive. Many went out of business. Am I upset??? Sure. Did I plan for my future?? Sure. We turned on big time to microwave 12 years ago when most of you didn't even know about it. As such we have avoided the dreaded Nextel monster. Am I going to be able to do what I am doing forever??? Of course not. I am already planning my next transition. If most of you guys think you are going to be WISP's 10+ years from now I think you need to re-examine your business plan I am sure that many will be unhappy with this rant but I think it needs to be real food for thought. If I was in business and i needed 100 Mb FD of throughput between locations I'll be damned if I am going to spend extra money for equipment so I don't interfere with someone else in the future. PLEASE NOTE*I AM NOT ENDORSING INTENTIONAL INTERFERENCE BY ANYONE. So please don't say I am Good luck! -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
20mpg? Big deal, I get pretty dang close to that (17-18mpg city) with my foot the in floorboard of my Excursion. This is my second Excursion...it is fast approaching 150k miles and running strong as new. Too bad Ford killed it. Of course it has the diesel with a few minor modifications... Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options Oh, you are gonna love this! My "truck" is a '96 green Taurus wagon! Lots of room with all the seats folded down. It's easy to get the ladder on and off of. Gets almost 20 mpg even with the ladder on top. But oil pans are $500 a whack and I've got too many sites up in the sticks now so I need to get something different. That and the 240,000 miles on this one. LOL, all highway miles, I've only put ONE set of brakes on it! I also have an old Dodge Ram 50 pickup. Pickups don't work well for this stuff here though. Too hard to get to the front of the bed, things get rained on, stuff gets too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter. A van is really tall but still has low ground clearance, AND it wastes an amazing amount of vertical space. I think my next one will be a Durango or something around that size though. I need the ground clearance too often. My WIFE drives the 454cid 3/4 ton suburban! Nothing like 8000 lbs of metal to keep my family safe on the roads. grin But she usually only drives 5 to 7 miles per day so it's not as bad as you might think. I still use far more gas than she does. But I'll tell you what, when it's time to pull mom and dad's 28' house boat I've got the rig for it. And when the weather really sucks a guy can chain up all 4 corners of the suburban and walk through all but the worst. Next I'm gonna see if I can manage to find a snow plow for it. BUT, when I drive it I don't use up both lanes! Heck, it'll even fit (if I work at it :-) in a standard parking place! laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options > http://www.exaltcom.com/ > > > BTW: What kind of truck do you have :-P > > > > > > Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > >> I thought that they did. How much do they use? >> >> - Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul optio >> >> >>> >>> It doesn't use the entire band... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: >>> NOo NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is always on. No more WMux fiascos needed. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Bob Moldashel >>> Lakeland Communications, Inc. >>> Broadband Deployment Group >>> 1350 Lincoln Avenue >>> Holbrook, New York 11741 USA >>> 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada >>> 631-585-5558 Fax >>> 516-551-1131 Cell >>> >>> -- >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > -- > Bob Moldashel > Lakeland Communications, Inc. > Broadband Deployment Group > 1350 Lincoln Avenue > Holbrook, New York 11741 USA > 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada > 631-585-5558 Fax > 516-551-1131 Cell > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] remote power
APC SU700NET with AP9617 SNMP management card. I have been pulling the internal batteries and hooking up external batteries to get extended runtime (went from 2 hours to 11 hours). You can reboot remotely and establish alerts. Web/telnet/SSH interfaces. Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: "chris cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: [WISPA] remote power Can anyone share what they use for remote power management/reboot devices? Thanks Chris -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Welcome Imagestream - WISPA's Newest Vendor Member!
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, John Scrivner wrote: In the WISP industry there are a few names that stick out as being companies who have been true friends to WISPs over the years. One of the names that I have to second this sentiment. Imagestream is an amazing company to deal with. They sell very nice gear and their support is so far and above that of anyone else in their business, that they are truly in a class by themselves. I'd like to extend my congratulations to Imagestream and a warm welcome as well (I bet THAT makes their day. LOL). -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WiMAX Security
W.D.McKinney wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:11:45 -0900 Subject: Re: [WISPA] WiMAX Security Dee, There is a lot of interesting info and a lot of speculative and very wrong info in that article on WiMAX security; especially the part saying that it's easy to jam WiMAX. Witness the following text from the article: "It is reasonably simple, however, for an attacker to use readily available tools to jam the spectrum for all planned WiMax deployments. In addition to physical layer denial of service attacks, an attacker can use legacy management frames to forcibly disconnect legitimate stations. This is similar to the deauthenticate flood attacks used against 802.11 networks. Despite good intentions for WiMax security, there are several potential attacks open to adversaries, including: Rogue base stations, DoS attacks, Man-in-the-middle attacks and Network manipulation with spoofed management frames... " The article author imagines that jammers are going to have $30,000 licensed "rogue" base stations laying around to jam with. The author somehow also imagines the possibility of jamming "all planned WiMax deployments" - this is a ridiculous statement. The author further imagines that jamming will be allowed by the FCC. The FCC may not act against jammers in license-free spectrum but rest assured that they will very likely act against jammers in licensed spectrum. For example, if someone started jamming Verizon cellphone towers, both Verizon and the FCC would act pretty quickly to find the guilty party and have them arrested. They could probably even be charged as a terrorist under current laws. I'm glad you posted this link. Like many wireless articles these days, this one contains some good information and some bad information. All we need is the knowledge or the resources to tell which is which is which is which... jack Hi Jack, Well, try calling me tomorrow. It will be an interesting conversation. -Dee Dee, Thanks - will do. jack W.D.McKinney wrote: I am familiar with these issues and hope you have time to read the post today at http://www.dailywireless.org/ Cheers, -Dee Alaska Wireless Systems 1(907)240-2183 Cell 1(907)349-2226 Fax 1(907)349-4308 Office www.akwireless.net -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] remote power
Yes, I'm here . Eric and Matt already posted, but here it is again http://www.digital-loggers.com/EPC.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] remote power I have an Iboot. I've heard of another brand that's more powerful and half the money but I don't have the info here. Chuck, you on this list? - Original Message - From: "chris cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: [WISPA] remote power > Can anyone share what they use for remote power management/reboot > devices? > > > > Thanks > > Chris > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Bob, I tried to downsize last year, but the Toyota Prius I bought just couldn't pull the 27ft enclosed snowmobile trailer with snowmobiles inside... so I went back to a Chevy with a 6.0L and 4x4. It gets 8mpg while towing... but the batteries don't overheat. :) Travis Microserv Bob Moldashel wrote: BTW:: While we are talking responsibility and efficiency how many of you guys and gals drive SUV's, Pick-Up trucks, Vans and other 8 cylinder vehicles Put your hands up. You know who you are.. :-) -B- Bob Moldashel wrote: OK...Lets have a review.. It does not use the whole band. It has GPS sync so you can use multiple links on the same channel. That makes it efficient... It works for the application.. There is a big difference of opinion here regarding spectrum usage. My way of seeing it is as follows. 1. I always install links with the largest possible antennas to keep my beamwidth as narrow as possible regardless of distance. In NYC I consistently use 2' antennas for links one mile or less. 2. We use only the power we need to do the job. Many of our links are running 0-5 dB of output at the radio. 3. We always mount antennas using rooftop structures or adjacent buildings to shield us from others. 4. Interference happens. We have not had any interference with FD constant carrier radios. Period. Another position is why should several users be allowed to use equipment that eats up the band passing say a simple video stream and such?? How is that "efficient" They are eating channels running a couple of megs.I'm eating it running 100 Mb FD. How about the WISP's that are using 120* sector antennas and throwing RF all over the place every time one of his 3 subscribers decides to use their system?? How is that spectrum efficency??? Or the guy that uses an omni and the 1 watt amp??? I can go on and on. The spectrum is limited. That sucks. But business is business and it is important to do what is necessary to provide for your business at the most cost effective manner possible. Is WalMart going to be considerate of you if you have a little 5 & 10 store on the next block??? Of course not. And why??? Because they are serving the masses at a price that the masses want and that is what it takes to serve the masses. Will some of the 5&10 operators go out of business because they can't compete?? Sure they will. Its called competition. And that is just what Matt is doing. If he has the demand then he needs to do what is necessary. If his business model does not allow him to purchase expensive licensed equipment over cheaper unlicensed equipment then so be it. That's business. I came from the 2 way radio industry. I fought the beast (Nextel) for several years before it finally killed the 2-way radio industry. I was somewhat fortunate because we did predominately Public Safety and Government accounts. We were the ones to get up at 2AM on a Sunday to fix a base station while all the 2-way shops that were doing 9-5 business customers were home sleeping. When nextel killed 2-way dispatch all the other radio shops decided to start fixing Public safety and Govt customer equip. The labor rate went from $100 per hour to $40 per hour just so guys could survive. Many went out of business. Am I upset??? Sure. Did I plan for my future?? Sure. We turned on big time to microwave 12 years ago when most of you didn't even know about it. As such we have avoided the dreaded Nextel monster. Am I going to be able to do what I am doing forever??? Of course not. I am already planning my next transition. If most of you guys think you are going to be WISP's 10+ years from now I think you need to re-examine your business plan I am sure that many will be unhappy with this rant but I think it needs to be real food for thought. If I was in business and i needed 100 Mb FD of throughput between locations I'll be damned if I am going to spend extra money for equipment so I don't interfere with someone else in the future. PLEASE NOTE*I AM NOT ENDORSING INTENTIONAL INTERFERENCE BY ANYONE. So please don't say I am Good luck! -B- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Oh, you are gonna love this! My "truck" is a '96 green Taurus wagon! Lots of room with all the seats folded down. It's easy to get the ladder on and off of. Gets almost 20 mpg even with the ladder on top. But oil pans are $500 a whack and I've got too many sites up in the sticks now so I need to get something different. That and the 240,000 miles on this one. LOL, all highway miles, I've only put ONE set of brakes on it! I also have an old Dodge Ram 50 pickup. Pickups don't work well for this stuff here though. Too hard to get to the front of the bed, things get rained on, stuff gets too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter. A van is really tall but still has low ground clearance, AND it wastes an amazing amount of vertical space. I think my next one will be a Durango or something around that size though. I need the ground clearance too often. My WIFE drives the 454cid 3/4 ton suburban! Nothing like 8000 lbs of metal to keep my family safe on the roads. grin But she usually only drives 5 to 7 miles per day so it's not as bad as you might think. I still use far more gas than she does. But I'll tell you what, when it's time to pull mom and dad's 28' house boat I've got the rig for it. And when the weather really sucks a guy can chain up all 4 corners of the suburban and walk through all but the worst. Next I'm gonna see if I can manage to find a snow plow for it. BUT, when I drive it I don't use up both lanes! Heck, it'll even fit (if I work at it :-) in a standard parking place! laters, marlon - Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options http://www.exaltcom.com/ BTW: What kind of truck do you have :-P Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I thought that they did. How much do they use? - Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul optio It doesn't use the entire band... Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: NOo NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is always on. No more WMux fiascos needed. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
http://www.exaltcom.com/ BTW: What kind of truck do you have :-P Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I thought that they did. How much do they use? - Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options It doesn't use the entire band... Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: NOo NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is always on. No more WMux fiascos needed. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
I thought that they did. How much do they use? - Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options It doesn't use the entire band... Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: NOo NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is always on. No more WMux fiascos needed. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
BTW:: While we are talking responsibility and efficiency how many of you guys and gals drive SUV's, Pick-Up trucks, Vans and other 8 cylinder vehicles Put your hands up. You know who you are.. :-) -B- Bob Moldashel wrote: OK...Lets have a review.. It does not use the whole band. It has GPS sync so you can use multiple links on the same channel. That makes it efficient... It works for the application.. There is a big difference of opinion here regarding spectrum usage. My way of seeing it is as follows. 1. I always install links with the largest possible antennas to keep my beamwidth as narrow as possible regardless of distance. In NYC I consistently use 2' antennas for links one mile or less. 2. We use only the power we need to do the job. Many of our links are running 0-5 dB of output at the radio. 3. We always mount antennas using rooftop structures or adjacent buildings to shield us from others. 4. Interference happens. We have not had any interference with FD constant carrier radios. Period. Another position is why should several users be allowed to use equipment that eats up the band passing say a simple video stream and such?? How is that "efficient" They are eating channels running a couple of megs.I'm eating it running 100 Mb FD. How about the WISP's that are using 120* sector antennas and throwing RF all over the place every time one of his 3 subscribers decides to use their system?? How is that spectrum efficency??? Or the guy that uses an omni and the 1 watt amp??? I can go on and on. The spectrum is limited. That sucks. But business is business and it is important to do what is necessary to provide for your business at the most cost effective manner possible. Is WalMart going to be considerate of you if you have a little 5 & 10 store on the next block??? Of course not. And why??? Because they are serving the masses at a price that the masses want and that is what it takes to serve the masses. Will some of the 5&10 operators go out of business because they can't compete?? Sure they will. Its called competition. And that is just what Matt is doing. If he has the demand then he needs to do what is necessary. If his business model does not allow him to purchase expensive licensed equipment over cheaper unlicensed equipment then so be it. That's business. I came from the 2 way radio industry. I fought the beast (Nextel) for several years before it finally killed the 2-way radio industry. I was somewhat fortunate because we did predominately Public Safety and Government accounts. We were the ones to get up at 2AM on a Sunday to fix a base station while all the 2-way shops that were doing 9-5 business customers were home sleeping. When nextel killed 2-way dispatch all the other radio shops decided to start fixing Public safety and Govt customer equip. The labor rate went from $100 per hour to $40 per hour just so guys could survive. Many went out of business. Am I upset??? Sure. Did I plan for my future?? Sure. We turned on big time to microwave 12 years ago when most of you didn't even know about it. As such we have avoided the dreaded Nextel monster. Am I going to be able to do what I am doing forever??? Of course not. I am already planning my next transition. If most of you guys think you are going to be WISP's 10+ years from now I think you need to re-examine your business plan I am sure that many will be unhappy with this rant but I think it needs to be real food for thought. If I was in business and i needed 100 Mb FD of throughput between locations I'll be damned if I am going to spend extra money for equipment so I don't interfere with someone else in the future. PLEASE NOTE*I AM NOT ENDORSING INTENTIONAL INTERFERENCE BY ANYONE. So please don't say I am Good luck! -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
OK...Lets have a review.. It does not use the whole band. It has GPS sync so you can use multiple links on the same channel. That makes it efficient... It works for the application.. There is a big difference of opinion here regarding spectrum usage. My way of seeing it is as follows. 1. I always install links with the largest possible antennas to keep my beamwidth as narrow as possible regardless of distance. In NYC I consistently use 2' antennas for links one mile or less. 2. We use only the power we need to do the job. Many of our links are running 0-5 dB of output at the radio. 3. We always mount antennas using rooftop structures or adjacent buildings to shield us from others. 4. Interference happens. We have not had any interference with FD constant carrier radios. Period. Another position is why should several users be allowed to use equipment that eats up the band passing say a simple video stream and such?? How is that "efficient" They are eating channels running a couple of megs.I'm eating it running 100 Mb FD. How about the WISP's that are using 120* sector antennas and throwing RF all over the place every time one of his 3 subscribers decides to use their system?? How is that spectrum efficency??? Or the guy that uses an omni and the 1 watt amp??? I can go on and on. The spectrum is limited. That sucks. But business is business and it is important to do what is necessary to provide for your business at the most cost effective manner possible. Is WalMart going to be considerate of you if you have a little 5 & 10 store on the next block??? Of course not. And why??? Because they are serving the masses at a price that the masses want and that is what it takes to serve the masses. Will some of the 5&10 operators go out of business because they can't compete?? Sure they will. Its called competition. And that is just what Matt is doing. If he has the demand then he needs to do what is necessary. If his business model does not allow him to purchase expensive licensed equipment over cheaper unlicensed equipment then so be it. That's business. I came from the 2 way radio industry. I fought the beast (Nextel) for several years before it finally killed the 2-way radio industry. I was somewhat fortunate because we did predominately Public Safety and Government accounts. We were the ones to get up at 2AM on a Sunday to fix a base station while all the 2-way shops that were doing 9-5 business customers were home sleeping. When nextel killed 2-way dispatch all the other radio shops decided to start fixing Public safety and Govt customer equip. The labor rate went from $100 per hour to $40 per hour just so guys could survive. Many went out of business. Am I upset??? Sure. Did I plan for my future?? Sure. We turned on big time to microwave 12 years ago when most of you didn't even know about it. As such we have avoided the dreaded Nextel monster. Am I going to be able to do what I am doing forever??? Of course not. I am already planning my next transition. If most of you guys think you are going to be WISP's 10+ years from now I think you need to re-examine your business plan I am sure that many will be unhappy with this rant but I think it needs to be real food for thought. If I was in business and i needed 100 Mb FD of throughput between locations I'll be damned if I am going to spend extra money for equipment so I don't interfere with someone else in the future. PLEASE NOTE*I AM NOT ENDORSING INTENTIONAL INTERFERENCE BY ANYONE. So please don't say I am Good luck! -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] remote power
I have an Iboot. I've heard of another brand that's more powerful and half the money but I don't have the info here. Chuck, you on this list? - Original Message - From: "chris cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: [WISPA] remote power Can anyone share what they use for remote power management/reboot devices? Thanks Chris -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
There is a matching network that goes on the rear of the antenna. At higher freqs the loss is much lower than on lower freqs. -B- Matt Liotta wrote: Bob Moldashel wrote: You can do that now with 3 Ceragon or Dragonwave radios phased into 1 antenna with much better redundancy. If one link dies you still have the other two. How are you phasing the radios together without significant loss? -Matt -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Matt Liotta wrote: Matt Liotta wrote: Its not greedy; efficient maybe, but not greedy. Whoops... meant inefficient. -Matt 100 Mb FD on a 32 Mhz. channel.That's not bad. Besides...get the GPS syc option and you can tie in a handful of links on the same channel. That makes them very efficient -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Bob Moldashel wrote: You can do that now with 3 Ceragon or Dragonwave radios phased into 1 antenna with much better redundancy. If one link dies you still have the other two. How are you phasing the radios together without significant loss? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
The GiGe radio is only 500 Mb:-) You can do that now with 3 Ceragon or Dragonwave radios phased into 1 antenna with much better redundancy. If one link dies you still have the other two. And they are available now with type acceptance. -B- Brad Belton wrote: Not only that, but is the GigE radio even available yet? Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Gigacom product is the only one that you can get any real long distance out of depending on the freq. They have licensed radios that perform very well in the rainforest of South America at very long distance. 60k or 40 miles for some applications at speeds of up to a Gig. One of if not the best Gig. radio on the mrkt. Those radios aren't FCC certified. And no, I won't being using an experimental license until they are certified like the sales person suggested. -Matt -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
It doesn't use the entire band... Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: NOo NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is always on. No more WMux fiascos needed. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Several of us on this list know how to shut down these large channel backhauls, and have done so when they have intentionally interfered with our operations. Be ready for someone to do the same to you if you try using a full-band backhaul. More than one operator who thought they would take over the entire band got a rude surprise when the gear suddenly didn't work anymore. 24ghz is a completely different story, as the beam sizes are very small and lots of colocation can take place. I think you are on the right track with the 24ghz solution. So you believe someone was intentionally interfering with your operations and your response was to do the same? I'm not sure what that has do with running this gear when one's intent is backhaul; not interference. When we sign a lease for a wireless colocation site we specify what frequencies we are using and agree not to interfere with an existing tenants. All future tenants must follow the same rules or risk being evicted. Tortuous interference is simply illegal and has civil penalties associated with it. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
The above confuses me. In the situation where I have a PtP radio using the full band there is no colocation opportunity for a competitor on either side. That means the competitor would have be on a site near by to be affected by me and/or to affect me. If this hypothetical competitor doesn't have any customers then the deployment must be PtMP base station since a PtP wouldn't be very useful without a customer. Certainly the power output from a PtMP base station is going to be considerably less than my PtP link making it unlikely my equipment would be affected. Further, equipment that uses large channel widths tend to run simple modulations that have very good receive sensitivity. Several of us on this list know how to shut down these large channel backhauls, and have done so when they have intentionally interfered with our operations. Be ready for someone to do the same to you if you try using a full-band backhaul. More than one operator who thought they would take over the entire band got a rude surprise when the gear suddenly didn't work anymore. 24ghz is a completely different story, as the beam sizes are very small and lots of colocation can take place. I think you are on the right track with the 24ghz solution. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] remote power
These are the best ones by far http://www.webpowerswitch.com/ The low end unit is only $139 or something like that. They have autoping and remote web interface as well. I haven't seen anything else come close for the price. Their rackmount units are awesome too, for $295 with 16 outlets and multiple autoping configurations. I am putting these everywhere on my network, and at the $139 price point I can afford to put them even on my little repeater sites. As far as I'm concerned - every WISP AP should have one of these at the bottom. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] chris cooper wrote: Can anyone share what they use for remote power management/reboot devices? Thanks Chris -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Tom DeReggi wrote: Matt, If you live in a remote area, with no potential interferers, then my comment does not apply. But last I heard you were deploying in the middle of Urban Atlanta and possibly Urban DC, with the potential for many interferers eventually. We mostly deploy in urban areas, but we do a good bit of rural as well. We don't really run into interference from others; mostly self-interference from putting too many links on a site. Again, since we only run PtP gear our signal well exceeds everyone else's. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Matt, If you live in a remote area, with no potential interferers, then my comment does not apply. But last I heard you were deploying in the middle of Urban Atlanta and possibly Urban DC, with the potential for many interferers eventually. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options Tom DeReggi wrote: Because its greedy. Its not greedy; efficient maybe, but not greedy. And when your competitors is unsensitive to the fact that you are greedy, he combats your spectrum/radio, and you or he has no where to go (spectrum wise) for a resolution, he will win because he doesn;t have customers yet, and you do, so you will move to protect your revenue. Basically by using the full band, you are guaranteeing that anyone that deploys has no choice but to fight you for spectrum, meaning any channel they choose will interfere with you. Sure you can go narrow beam antenna, but its jsut a matter of time until someone bangs into you. The above confuses me. In the situation where I have a PtP radio using the full band there is no colocation opportunity for a competitor on either side. That means the competitor would have be on a site near by to be affected by me and/or to affect me. If this hypothetical competitor doesn't have any customers then the deployment must be PtMP base station since a PtP wouldn't be very useful without a customer. Certainly the power output from a PtMP base station is going to be considerably less than my PtP link making it unlikely my equipment would be affected. Further, equipment that uses large channel widths tend to run simple modulations that have very good receive sensitivity. The question that one asks is WHY? If you ahve an option that doesn't take the whole band, why would you choose one that does? Those decissions don't usually make friends, and non-friends tend to interfere. When you put the question that way, sure, it seems silly. However, that assumes there is another option, which isn't necessarily the case. In fact, reading this thread so far seems to indicate that the available high throughput unlicensed radios have large channel widths. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] remote power
http://www.digital-loggers.com/EPC.html http://www.hw-group.com/products/ip_watchdog/index_lite_en.html http://www.surpluscomputers.com/store/main.aspx?p=ItemDetail&item=NET10332 http://dataprobe.com/products/power/index.html -Eric chris cooper wrote: Can anyone share what they use for remote power management/reboot devices? Thanks Chris -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Matt Liotta wrote: Its not greedy; efficient maybe, but not greedy. Whoops... meant inefficient. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Tom DeReggi wrote: Because its greedy. Its not greedy; efficient maybe, but not greedy. And when your competitors is unsensitive to the fact that you are greedy, he combats your spectrum/radio, and you or he has no where to go (spectrum wise) for a resolution, he will win because he doesn;t have customers yet, and you do, so you will move to protect your revenue. Basically by using the full band, you are guaranteeing that anyone that deploys has no choice but to fight you for spectrum, meaning any channel they choose will interfere with you. Sure you can go narrow beam antenna, but its jsut a matter of time until someone bangs into you. The above confuses me. In the situation where I have a PtP radio using the full band there is no colocation opportunity for a competitor on either side. That means the competitor would have be on a site near by to be affected by me and/or to affect me. If this hypothetical competitor doesn't have any customers then the deployment must be PtMP base station since a PtP wouldn't be very useful without a customer. Certainly the power output from a PtMP base station is going to be considerably less than my PtP link making it unlikely my equipment would be affected. Further, equipment that uses large channel widths tend to run simple modulations that have very good receive sensitivity. The question that one asks is WHY? If you ahve an option that doesn't take the whole band, why would you choose one that does? Those decissions don't usually make friends, and non-friends tend to interfere. When you put the question that way, sure, it seems silly. However, that assumes there is another option, which isn't necessarily the case. In fact, reading this thread so far seems to indicate that the available high throughput unlicensed radios have large channel widths. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Not only that, but is the GigE radio even available yet? Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The Gigacom product is the only one that you can get any real long distance out of depending on the freq. They have licensed radios that perform very well in the rainforest of South America at very long distance. 60k or 40 miles for some applications at speeds of up to a Gig. One of if not the best Gig. radio on the mrkt. > Those radios aren't FCC certified. And no, I won't being using an experimental license until they are certified like the sales person suggested. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Gigacom product is the only one that you can get any real long distance out of depending on the freq. They have licensed radios that perform very well in the rainforest of South America at very long distance. 60k or 40 miles for some applications at speeds of up to a Gig. One of if not the best Gig. radio on the mrkt. Those radios aren't FCC certified. And no, I won't being using an experimental license until they are certified like the sales person suggested. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Why not? Because its greedy. And when your competitors is unsensitive to the fact that you are greedy, he combats your spectrum/radio, and you or he has no where to go (spectrum wise) for a resolution, he will win because he doesn;t have customers yet, and you do, so you will move to protect your revenue. Basically by using the full band, you are guaranteeing that anyone that deploys has no choice but to fight you for spectrum, meaning any channel they choose will interfere with you. Sure you can go narrow beam antenna, but its jsut a matter of time until someone bangs into you. The question that one asks is WHY? If you ahve an option that doesn't take the whole band, why would you choose one that does? Those decissions don't usually make friends, and non-friends tend to interfere. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: NOo NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is always on. No more WMux fiascos needed. Why not? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
You need to look at Nera, Ceragon, and Gigacom. The Gigacom product is the only one that you can get any real long distance out of depending on the freq. They have licensed radios that perform very well in the rainforest of South America at very long distance. 60k or 40 miles for some applications at speeds of up to a Gig. One of if not the best Gig. radio on the mrkt. Regards, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options John Scrivner wrote: > Wow! Business must be good! > That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are racing to service them all. The more we install the more capacity upgrades we have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth is extremely challenging because if it isn't done correctly we can destroy the company. > Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only > way > short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance > for 70 GHz > gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I > read the specs. > I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There > is actually much less > attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. > There is a spike of > absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat > that signal. It gets better > above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go > through the air better with as high > as 100 GHz than what you can with > 60 GHz. Obviously there are other > licensed options in lower frequency > space as well. I know Charles has some > experience running licensed > high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you > run for backhaul over 100 > mbps FDX? > Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely upgrade existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in different ways to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed we are forced to have a static configuration. > I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top > end > about 100 mbps FDX? > DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 200Mbps full duplex. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] remote power
Can anyone share what they use for remote power management/reboot devices? Thanks Chris -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WiMAX Security
- Original Message - From: Jack Unger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:11:45 -0900 Subject: Re: [WISPA] WiMAX Security > Dee, > > There is a lot of interesting info and a lot of speculative and very > wrong info in that article on WiMAX security; especially the part saying > that it's easy to jam WiMAX. Witness the following text from the article: > > > "It is reasonably simple, however, for an attacker to use readily > available tools to jam the spectrum for all planned WiMax deployments. > In addition to physical layer denial of service attacks, an attacker can > use legacy management frames to forcibly disconnect legitimate stations. > This is similar to the deauthenticate flood attacks used against 802.11 > networks. > > Despite good intentions for WiMax security, there are several potential > attacks open to adversaries, including: Rogue base stations, DoS > attacks, Man-in-the-middle attacks and Network manipulation with spoofed > management frames... " > > > > The article author imagines that jammers are going to have $30,000 > licensed "rogue" base stations laying around to jam with. > > The author somehow also imagines the possibility of jamming "all planned > WiMax deployments" - this is a ridiculous statement. > > The author further imagines that jamming will be allowed by the FCC. The > FCC may not act against jammers in license-free spectrum but rest > assured that they will very likely act against jammers in licensed > spectrum. For example, if someone started jamming Verizon cellphone > towers, both Verizon and the FCC would act pretty quickly to find the > guilty party and have them arrested. They could probably even be charged > as a terrorist under current laws. > > I'm glad you posted this link. Like many wireless articles these days, > this one contains some good information and some bad information. All we > need is the knowledge or the resources to tell which is which is which > is which... > > jack > > Hi Jack, Well, try calling me tomorrow. It will be an interesting conversation. -Dee > W.D.McKinney wrote: > > > I am familiar with these issues and hope you have time to read the post > today at > > http://www.dailywireless.org/ > > > > Cheers, > > -Dee > > > > Alaska Wireless Systems > > 1(907)240-2183 Cell > > 1(907)349-2226 Fax > > 1(907)349-4308 Office > > www.akwireless.net > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need opinion
OK, about the cost lets say max 1300 Dlls each equipment, could be any equipment that solve the problem, well actually its not a problem i have done this kind of link before what i want now it is not to use 4 equipments and doing with 5.8 Mike Brownson escribió: If reliability is your main issue then you may reconsider using wifi product and omni antennas. There are so many things that can effect the radio signal. If you link to experiment then perhaps it's good to go with WAR boards as it's kind of a make it yourself solution. If you want something that just goes in and is secure and works then be prepared to spend more money. So first you need to know what you are looking for and how much money you have to spend. Marlon's idea with the Tranzeo operating in WDS is good for low cost without having to make it yourself. But you still need someplace in the middle that you can put a radio. If you don't have that then it's time to look at different ways to do this. Too many questions and not enough answers yet. Mike Carlos A. Garcia G wrote: reliability its the primary concern and the speed of the link its enough starting with 11Mbps Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió: Hi Carlos You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link. I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about. The results pretty well sucked. big time. However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds. That's supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio at the same time. It's supposed to do what you are asking. I'm sure that there will be a speed penalty though, hopefully just much less than it was last time I tried this. You'd end up with ap/noc<-->ap/wds<-->cpe/office We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one that sees another customer that's wanted service for years. I'm going ot use a Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of Maxrad antennas. The backhaul to the main tower will be done with vertical and the one to the remote site will be horizontal. Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this. It'll be faster and more stable. Radios don't like to store and forward out one port. They like to rec. on one and tx on the other basically at the same time. Wish us both luck! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Carlos A. Garcia G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors do i have to contact: look! NOC <-->> POP <-->> OFFICE -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need opinion
Ihave never check the real speed but the radio it is a G so it must be more than that Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió: 11 megs like your Cisco radios claim (then actually do half or less than that) or a real 11 meg? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Carlos A. Garcia G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need opinion reliability its the primary concern and the speed of the link its enough starting with 11Mbps Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió: Hi Carlos You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link. I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about. The results pretty well sucked. big time. However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds. That's supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio at the same time. It's supposed to do what you are asking. I'm sure that there will be a speed penalty though, hopefully just much less than it was last time I tried this. You'd end up with ap/noc<-->ap/wds<-->cpe/office We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one that sees another customer that's wanted service for years. I'm going ot use a Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of Maxrad antennas. The backhaul to the main tower will be done with vertical and the one to the remote site will be horizontal. Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this. It'll be faster and more stable. Radios don't like to store and forward out one port. They like to rec. on one and tx on the other basically at the same time. Wish us both luck! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Carlos A. Garcia G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors do i have to contact: look! NOC <-->> POP <-->> OFFICE -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Welcome Imagestream - WISPA's Newest Vendor Member!
In the WISP industry there are a few names that stick out as being companies who have been true friends to WISPs over the years. One of the names that truly tops the list is ImageStream. If you need a router then these guys have one that will do the job well, whatever the job is. The amazing thing is that they sell everything from low-priced so-ho routers up to Enterprise grade solutions that have been used by the Federal Government. These guys don't just sell you a box. They give you a solution and they back it up with some of the best service in this market segment. They make sure you have something of value when you buy from them. Best of all they do it for less than the bigger name companies and they do it with a smile on their face. I am proud to have ImageStream on board as a Vendor Member of WISPA and I hope you will all consider these guys for your router needs in the future. Here is an introductory message from my friend Jeff Broadwick of ImageStream: WISPA members: ImageStream is delighted to become a vendor-member of this fine organization. We believe that WISPA is by WISPs and for WISPs. You have great leadership, and I expect that the future will bring great progress! ImageStream manufactures and sells complete Linux-based routers. We provide 24/7 support. ImageStream routers also support high-end router features such as BGP, QoS, VRRP, and just about any application that a WISP would need, with enough horsepower to still run your circuits at line-speed. ImageStream is a profitable, privately held company located in Plymouth Indiana. We were formed in 1995 and we shipped the first complete commercial Linux router in 1999. We attended the 2nd WISPCON at the behest of one of our customers and have been excited about working with WISPs every since. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Jeff Broadwick Sales Manager, ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) +1 574-935-8488 (Fax) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] spectrum analyzer
We've got one of our Avcom Rental units available for sale. We rent these for $100 per week. This has been used on and off for the past year and it's time to move it. It sells for $3K new, we need $1000 for the analyzer. We have a 5Ghz freq extender as well for $400, normally $800. Only thing needed is the 900MHz freq extender. So what we have will do the 1.7-2.7GHz band plus 5-6GHz (with extender) for $1400. Portable (not handheld) unit with large easy to read screen, markers, memory and peak hold functions plus more. More info at http://avcomofva.com/products/default.asp?page=psa1727b. Mike B Blair Davis wrote: Well, I know we have been round and round this subject before, but, I am finally ready to buy a spectrum analyzer What I want Coverage of 900MHz, 2.3-2.5GHz, and 5-6GHz Absolute power readings... I don't really care what the range on the power readings is as I can adjust the level as needed with attenuators But, I wish to do repeatable testing and comparison of radio cards and pigtails with the unit... Portable I don't need, (but would not object), to a hand held unit, but a big rack mount won't do me much good Reasonable price 1K$ or so. Referb or recon is fine I'd consider used from someone well known on wispa Ext. antenna input Ideas? Suggestions? I remember some talking about hand-held units on here before. Any body ever get one and use it? Thanks -- Mike Brownson Electro-comm Distributing 5015 Paris St Denver, CO 80239 www.electro-comm.com (303) 371-8182 x112, (800) 525-0173 Your 24x7 support staff is at www.ShopECBIZ.com Interested in Metro WiFi? We have solutions Coming soon from Tranzeo, 900MHz PtMP We are having our 13th annual EC Expo January 17-19, 2007 in Denver Colorado. There is 2 days of training from Canopy, Airaya, Bridgewave, Dragonwave, Tranzeo, Stratex, Inscape data, Trylon and Polyphaser. The exhibits will be on Friday January 19th. Visit www.ec-expo.com for registration and information. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need opinion
If reliability is your main issue then you may reconsider using wifi product and omni antennas. There are so many things that can effect the radio signal. If you link to experiment then perhaps it's good to go with WAR boards as it's kind of a make it yourself solution. If you want something that just goes in and is secure and works then be prepared to spend more money. So first you need to know what you are looking for and how much money you have to spend. Marlon's idea with the Tranzeo operating in WDS is good for low cost without having to make it yourself. But you still need someplace in the middle that you can put a radio. If you don't have that then it's time to look at different ways to do this. Too many questions and not enough answers yet. Mike Carlos A. Garcia G wrote: reliability its the primary concern and the speed of the link its enough starting with 11Mbps Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió: Hi Carlos You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link. I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about. The results pretty well sucked. big time. However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds. That's supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio at the same time. It's supposed to do what you are asking. I'm sure that there will be a speed penalty though, hopefully just much less than it was last time I tried this. You'd end up with ap/noc<-->ap/wds<-->cpe/office We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one that sees another customer that's wanted service for years. I'm going ot use a Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of Maxrad antennas. The backhaul to the main tower will be done with vertical and the one to the remote site will be horizontal. Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this. It'll be faster and more stable. Radios don't like to store and forward out one port. They like to rec. on one and tx on the other basically at the same time. Wish us both luck! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Carlos A. Garcia G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors do i have to contact: look! NOC <-->> POP <-->> OFFICE -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Mike Brownson Electro-comm Distributing 5015 Paris St Denver, CO 80239 www.electro-comm.com (303) 371-8182 x112, (800) 525-0173 Your 24x7 support staff is at www.ShopECBIZ.com Interested in Metro WiFi? We have solutions Coming soon from Tranzeo, 900MHz PtMP We are having our 13th annual EC Expo January 17-19, 2007 in Denver Colorado. There is 2 days of training from Canopy, Airaya, Bridgewave, Dragonwave, Tranzeo, Stratex, Inscape data, Trylon and Polyphaser. The exhibits will be on Friday January 19th. Visit www.ec-expo.com for registration and information. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need opinion
Marlon, For WDS, you lose half your capacity, so an 11meg link will instantly drop down to 5.5meg if I understand it right. Having said that, I've got a couple of Tranzeo AP's running WDS right now, working as a repeater, and the performance is horrible. I think part of my problem though is that they are so close together (less than a mile) and I think they are seriously interfering with each other. I've been planning / trying to move this to a better solution for a month and just haven't gotten it done. - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need opinion 11 megs like your Cisco radios claim (then actually do half or less than that) or a real 11 meg? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Carlos A. Garcia G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need opinion reliability its the primary concern and the speed of the link its enough starting with 11Mbps Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió: Hi Carlos You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link. I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about. The results pretty well sucked. big time. However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds. That's supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio at the same time. It's supposed to do what you are asking. I'm sure that there will be a speed penalty though, hopefully just much less than it was last time I tried this. You'd end up with ap/noc<-->ap/wds<-->cpe/office We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one that sees another customer that's wanted service for years. I'm going ot use a Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of Maxrad antennas. The backhaul to the main tower will be done with vertical and the one to the remote site will be horizontal. Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this. It'll be faster and more stable. Radios don't like to store and forward out one port. They like to rec. on one and tx on the other basically at the same time. Wish us both luck! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Carlos A. Garcia G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors do i have to contact: look! NOC <-->> POP <-->> OFFICE -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
We have done Dragon Wave with links over 20 miles at 18ghz. with 4 ft dishes.(23ghz is very low powered and would get you more then a few miles) We have seen a few minutes a year in rain fade as it is pushing the limits. There is now an high power unit that has about 10db more tx power then ours, they also have an 11GHz product which of course has fewer issues with heavy rain. Just be forewarned that a 4 or 6 foot dish at 18ghz has a beam width of less then 1deg and and fine tuning is time consuming and very touchy. They also have to be mounted on a very rigid structure so if it is going on a tower it has to be a hefty or the wind can easily play with your alignment. Excellent gear and service would recommend them. Erik Bob Moldashel wrote: 24 Ghz. won't do 5-10 miles. The other option is an Exalt 2.4 Ghz. or 5 Ghz radio. 100 Mb Full Duplex (Yes 2.4 Ghz.) for around $15-16K plus antennas -B- Matt Liotta wrote: John Scrivner wrote: Wow! Business must be good! That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are racing to service them all. The more we install the more capacity upgrades we have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth is extremely challenging because if it isn't done correctly we can destroy the company. Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX? Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely upgrade existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in different ways to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed we are forced to have a static configuration. I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top end about 100 mbps FDX? DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 200Mbps full duplex. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: NOo NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is always on. No more WMux fiascos needed. Why not? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
NOo NO one should buy ANY radio anymore that uses the entire band and is always on. No more WMux fiascos needed. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options 24 Ghz. won't do 5-10 miles. The other option is an Exalt 2.4 Ghz. or 5 Ghz radio. 100 Mb Full Duplex (Yes 2.4 Ghz.) for around $15-16K plus antennas -B- Matt Liotta wrote: John Scrivner wrote: Wow! Business must be good! That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are racing to service them all. The more we install the more capacity upgrades we have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth is extremely challenging because if it isn't done correctly we can destroy the company. Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX? Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely upgrade existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in different ways to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed we are forced to have a static configuration. I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top end about 100 mbps FDX? DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 200Mbps full duplex. -Matt -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WiMAX Security
Dee, There is a lot of interesting info and a lot of speculative and very wrong info in that article on WiMAX security; especially the part saying that it's easy to jam WiMAX. Witness the following text from the article: "It is reasonably simple, however, for an attacker to use readily available tools to jam the spectrum for all planned WiMax deployments. In addition to physical layer denial of service attacks, an attacker can use legacy management frames to forcibly disconnect legitimate stations. This is similar to the deauthenticate flood attacks used against 802.11 networks. Despite good intentions for WiMax security, there are several potential attacks open to adversaries, including: Rogue base stations, DoS attacks, Man-in-the-middle attacks and Network manipulation with spoofed management frames... " The article author imagines that jammers are going to have $30,000 licensed "rogue" base stations laying around to jam with. The author somehow also imagines the possibility of jamming "all planned WiMax deployments" - this is a ridiculous statement. The author further imagines that jamming will be allowed by the FCC. The FCC may not act against jammers in license-free spectrum but rest assured that they will very likely act against jammers in licensed spectrum. For example, if someone started jamming Verizon cellphone towers, both Verizon and the FCC would act pretty quickly to find the guilty party and have them arrested. They could probably even be charged as a terrorist under current laws. I'm glad you posted this link. Like many wireless articles these days, this one contains some good information and some bad information. All we need is the knowledge or the resources to tell which is which is which is which... jack W.D.McKinney wrote: I am familiar with these issues and hope you have time to read the post today at http://www.dailywireless.org/ Cheers, -Dee Alaska Wireless Systems 1(907)240-2183 Cell 1(907)349-2226 Fax 1(907)349-4308 Office www.akwireless.net -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
How about Dragonwave 18ghz or 11ghz? I think they make a 200mbps product in both of those bands. Travis Microserv Bob Moldashel wrote: 24 Ghz. won't do 5-10 miles. The other option is an Exalt 2.4 Ghz. or 5 Ghz radio. 100 Mb Full Duplex (Yes 2.4 Ghz.) for around $15-16K plus antennas -B- Matt Liotta wrote: John Scrivner wrote: Wow! Business must be good! That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are racing to service them all. The more we install the more capacity upgrades we have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth is extremely challenging because if it isn't done correctly we can destroy the company. Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX? Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely upgrade existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in different ways to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed we are forced to have a static configuration. I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top end about 100 mbps FDX? DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 200Mbps full duplex. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need opinion
11 megs like your Cisco radios claim (then actually do half or less than that) or a real 11 meg? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Carlos A. Garcia G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need opinion reliability its the primary concern and the speed of the link its enough starting with 11Mbps Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió: Hi Carlos You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link. I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about. The results pretty well sucked. big time. However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds. That's supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio at the same time. It's supposed to do what you are asking. I'm sure that there will be a speed penalty though, hopefully just much less than it was last time I tried this. You'd end up with ap/noc<-->ap/wds<-->cpe/office We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one that sees another customer that's wanted service for years. I'm going ot use a Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of Maxrad antennas. The backhaul to the main tower will be done with vertical and the one to the remote site will be horizontal. Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this. It'll be faster and more stable. Radios don't like to store and forward out one port. They like to rec. on one and tx on the other basically at the same time. Wish us both luck! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Carlos A. Garcia G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors do i have to contact: look! NOC <-->> POP <-->> OFFICE -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
I can vouch for Dragon Wave. We have 2 11Ghz links, rock solid, Latency that rivals fiber. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options John Scrivner wrote: > Wow! Business must be good! > That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are racing to service them all. The more we install the more capacity upgrades we have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth is extremely challenging because if it isn't done correctly we can destroy the company. > Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only > way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance > for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I > read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There > is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. > There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat > that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go > through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with > 60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency > space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed > high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 > mbps FDX? > Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely upgrade existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in different ways to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed we are forced to have a static configuration. > I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top > end about 100 mbps FDX? > DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 200Mbps full duplex. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
My experience is showing about a max of 240 Mbps aggregate bandwidth for a link that long. My shortest link is about a quarter mile and is getting 283 Mbps. Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 2:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options Tim Kerns wrote: > The Orthagon 600 series is supposed to do 300 mb on a 30 Mhz channel. > I believe they do this using both vert and hor polarity. Is this the > system you are out growing? > First of all, 300Mbps is an aggregate figure. Second, in a low latency deployment at 5-10 miles it is not possible to get full throughput on an Orthogon. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] WiMAX Security
I am familiar with these issues and hope you have time to read the post today at http://www.dailywireless.org/ Cheers, -Dee Alaska Wireless Systems 1(907)240-2183 Cell 1(907)349-2226 Fax 1(907)349-4308 Office www.akwireless.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
24 Ghz. won't do 5-10 miles. The other option is an Exalt 2.4 Ghz. or 5 Ghz radio. 100 Mb Full Duplex (Yes 2.4 Ghz.) for around $15-16K plus antennas -B- Matt Liotta wrote: John Scrivner wrote: Wow! Business must be good! That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are racing to service them all. The more we install the more capacity upgrades we have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth is extremely challenging because if it isn't done correctly we can destroy the company. Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX? Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely upgrade existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in different ways to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed we are forced to have a static configuration. I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top end about 100 mbps FDX? DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 200Mbps full duplex. -Matt -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
John Scrivner wrote: Wow! Business must be good! That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are racing to service them all. The more we install the more capacity upgrades we have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth is extremely challenging because if it isn't done correctly we can destroy the company. Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX? Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely upgrade existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in different ways to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed we are forced to have a static configuration. I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top end about 100 mbps FDX? DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 200Mbps full duplex. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] spectrum analyzer
Well, I know we have been round and round this subject before, but, I am finally ready to buy a spectrum analyzer What I want Coverage of 900MHz, 2.3-2.5GHz, and 5-6GHz Absolute power readings... I don't really care what the range on the power readings is as I can adjust the level as needed with attenuators But, I wish to do repeatable testing and comparison of radio cards and pigtails with the unit... Portable I don't need, (but would not object), to a hand held unit, but a big rack mount won't do me much good Reasonable price 1K$ or so. Referb or recon is fine I'd consider used from someone well known on wispa Ext. antenna input Ideas? Suggestions? I remember some talking about hand-held units on here before. Any body ever get one and use it? Thanks -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Tim Kerns wrote: The Orthagon 600 series is supposed to do 300 mb on a 30 Mhz channel. I believe they do this using both vert and hor polarity. Is this the system you are out growing? First of all, 300Mbps is an aggregate figure. Second, in a low latency deployment at 5-10 miles it is not possible to get full throughput on an Orthogon. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need opinion
Ok, following your recomendations in order to set up the link without using more than 3 radios what you recommend its to use th WAR from Staros i have a wireless repeaters using cisco so the extra radios for customers are not necesary (sorry my english) if i use this NOC war with one antenna and radio at 5.8GHz to connect with the middle POP war dual 2 radios 2 antennas at 5.8GHz and finally the customer POP war and what about security the guy ask me to doit secure meaning not easy for the folks. (he knows total security its an utopia a Guajiro dream!!) Lonnie Nunweiler escribió: My recommendation is to have a dual WAR board at the main POP. Use a 5 GHz antenna and radio to connect tot the middle repeater and have a 2.4 GHz with an omni at the main just to be able to connect any local customers. The biggest investment is the CPU board and time to install, and an extra radio and 15 dB omni is cheap. Even a couple of subscribers will make it pay. At the middle repeater I would use a dual WAR with 5 GHz radios to point to main and the remote end. If you want some local service at that repeater then use a 4 port WAR and throw a 2.4 GHz and 900 MHz card in it or both 2.4 GHz or 900 MHz. Your choice. The remote end is a copy of the main end with a dual WAR and 5 GHz input and a 2.4 GHz to an omni for local use. This arrangement will get you 20 to 30 mbps of sustained throughput as long as the middle repeater is no farther than 30 miles from either end. You'll also have a couple of revenue generating AP units at each end and potentially the middle. Lonnie On 12/12/06, Carlos A. Garcia G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have just recived an answer from chad saying that starOS its a good choice, thanks chad ill check it, for your question yes i w'd like to play, i have never deployed my routers, but i really would like to, so im like a newbie compared to the people in this list but im hungry to learn the how to, thanks to everybody, this is an amazing list. Mario Pommier escribió: > Carlos, >that's your first item, your line of thinking seems accurate: > >Cisco, Proxim, Trango, Alvarion, StarOS, Mikrotik -- what equipment > will you choose and what is the advantage/disadvantage of each. >Maybe your first perspective is: do you want to go with a > "finished, packaged" product, or do you want to be able to "play more > with the tools and toys" out there? >The type of computer person you are may be a good guide: do you > deploy your own Unix/Linux based routers or do you buy Cisco finished > products? >Hope that helps some. > > Mario > > Carlos A. Garcia G wrote: > >> Thank u very much, but the question it is, i do not know many >> equipments, i have only work with cisco aironet, the last time i do >> something similar and get the cisco 1300 series the problem it is >> that in order that this work i have to use 4 radios >> >> 1300<-->[1300 -ethernet-1300]<-->1300 >> >> and what i need it is to know for example: the proxim LMG22 work in >> 5.8 and can be used as: >> >> LMG22<-->LMG22<-->LMG22 >> >> im currently looking with cisco, proxym, trango, mikrotik but i dont >> get the answer that im looking for. >> Mike Brownson escribió: >> >>> Carlos, >>> >>> It all depends on how big a hill and what speed you need. There is >>> some PtP equipment (Motorola PtP, formerly Orthogon) that can talk >>> over the hill in one link if the hill is not too big or the distance >>> is not too long. Other option is to put another repeater in >>> between. But that means another radio site. If you want to send me >>> latitude and longitude of both sites I can see if the one radio link >>> will work. >>> >>> Mike B >>> >>> Carlos A. Garcia G wrote: >>> Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors do i have to contact: look! NOC <-->> POP <-->> OFFICE >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] The Holiday Season
Deep Breaths. Some fun time at work. More breaks with sugar and less caffeine. Exercise. All work to release stress. If everyone is under pressure at your office - and you know it - it is your job to help manage that stress. Or lose customers. Just my quick 2 cents. Peter Forbes Mercy wrote: I received an email from my support staff who was mad because a customer called screaming at them and the tech felt the installers weren't fixing problems aggressive enough. Normally this is a simple fix but during this stressful season both sides flew off in a rage. Our company dinner is tonight and I felt perhaps I should send a little reminder of who we are. I laugh when the first line says how much I hate the holidays but trust me it gets better. It's something us small business owners, especially in this business, have to remember to say when times get really stressful. I just thougth I'd pass it on, I hope your not offended by it: "You know what I really hate about the holiday season. People feel they are under so much pressure to give that they become asses to everyone else. Our customers become out of control crazy and our employees who deal with the same problems year round become more sensitive because you are under the same pressures personally for the holidays. Pretty soon employee comments get harsher in the notes and the reactions get more radical and everyone goes away miserable. I don't know about you but I can't wait for the end of the year so people can just calm down. No business is more affected then ours because if anything fails the customer calls screaming that we ruined their Christmas or some nonsence like that, gee thanks for ruining ours too, ya jerk. I just want to make sure you know that a smart remark in notes will be taken much more personally this time of year. Saying "I just wish you installers would go fix it" is going to be met with "I think you techs can come try and do our job" responses. Neither is a reasonable statement but I understand the pressure on both of you. The only thing you need to take away from this email is this. I support you and will be as flexible as you need to make sure this season is not a pressure filled as the rest of the world is making it. My daughter is ready to walk out of her job because her bosses are self serving and make no attempt to understand the added stress of the season and in fact are adding to it. I won't add to yours. Tonight we all have dinner and I want just for those few hours you to remember that we are all in this together and we are a highly moral company who always goes beyond the rest to take care of our customers even at personal expense. We may not be a good battle for the billion dollar corporations who just want to lose money to kill us but the core of our customers are still seeking somebody in this world who still really cares about them and thats us. So feel good that when the rest of the world seems to want to screw you we are caring about our customers and leading by example. Now take a breath and lets get back to work, see you tonight and Merry Christmas and all those other religious greetings that I am now required by the religious police to say. I got your back. Forbes " -- Regards, Peter Radizeski RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect & Communicate 813.963.5884 http://www.marketingIDEAguy.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need opinion
reliability its the primary concern and the speed of the link its enough starting with 11Mbps Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 escribió: Hi Carlos You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link. I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about. The results pretty well sucked. big time. However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds. That's supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio at the same time. It's supposed to do what you are asking. I'm sure that there will be a speed penalty though, hopefully just much less than it was last time I tried this. You'd end up with ap/noc<-->ap/wds<-->cpe/office We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one that sees another customer that's wanted service for years. I'm going ot use a Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of Maxrad antennas. The backhaul to the main tower will be done with vertical and the one to the remote site will be horizontal. Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this. It'll be faster and more stable. Radios don't like to store and forward out one port. They like to rec. on one and tx on the other basically at the same time. Wish us both luck! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Carlos A. Garcia G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors do i have to contact: look! NOC <-->> POP <-->> OFFICE -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need opinion
My recommendation is to have a dual WAR board at the main POP. Use a 5 GHz antenna and radio to connect tot the middle repeater and have a 2.4 GHz with an omni at the main just to be able to connect any local customers. The biggest investment is the CPU board and time to install, and an extra radio and 15 dB omni is cheap. Even a couple of subscribers will make it pay. At the middle repeater I would use a dual WAR with 5 GHz radios to point to main and the remote end. If you want some local service at that repeater then use a 4 port WAR and throw a 2.4 GHz and 900 MHz card in it or both 2.4 GHz or 900 MHz. Your choice. The remote end is a copy of the main end with a dual WAR and 5 GHz input and a 2.4 GHz to an omni for local use. This arrangement will get you 20 to 30 mbps of sustained throughput as long as the middle repeater is no farther than 30 miles from either end. You'll also have a couple of revenue generating AP units at each end and potentially the middle. Lonnie On 12/12/06, Carlos A. Garcia G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have just recived an answer from chad saying that starOS its a good choice, thanks chad ill check it, for your question yes i w'd like to play, i have never deployed my routers, but i really would like to, so im like a newbie compared to the people in this list but im hungry to learn the how to, thanks to everybody, this is an amazing list. Mario Pommier escribió: > Carlos, >that's your first item, your line of thinking seems accurate: > >Cisco, Proxim, Trango, Alvarion, StarOS, Mikrotik -- what equipment > will you choose and what is the advantage/disadvantage of each. >Maybe your first perspective is: do you want to go with a > "finished, packaged" product, or do you want to be able to "play more > with the tools and toys" out there? >The type of computer person you are may be a good guide: do you > deploy your own Unix/Linux based routers or do you buy Cisco finished > products? >Hope that helps some. > > Mario > > Carlos A. Garcia G wrote: > >> Thank u very much, but the question it is, i do not know many >> equipments, i have only work with cisco aironet, the last time i do >> something similar and get the cisco 1300 series the problem it is >> that in order that this work i have to use 4 radios >> >> 1300<-->[1300 -ethernet-1300]<-->1300 >> >> and what i need it is to know for example: the proxim LMG22 work in >> 5.8 and can be used as: >> >> LMG22<-->LMG22<-->LMG22 >> >> im currently looking with cisco, proxym, trango, mikrotik but i dont >> get the answer that im looking for. >> Mike Brownson escribió: >> >>> Carlos, >>> >>> It all depends on how big a hill and what speed you need. There is >>> some PtP equipment (Motorola PtP, formerly Orthogon) that can talk >>> over the hill in one link if the hill is not too big or the distance >>> is not too long. Other option is to put another repeater in >>> between. But that means another radio site. If you want to send me >>> latitude and longitude of both sites I can see if the one radio link >>> will work. >>> >>> Mike B >>> >>> Carlos A. Garcia G wrote: >>> Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors do i have to contact: look! NOC <-->> POP <-->> OFFICE >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
- Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:49:39 -0900 Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options > 170 Mb FD Dragonwave... > > About $20K > > > Hi Matt, I agree with Bob here, the Dragonwave solution is your ticket to reliable service at the speeds you require. -Dee > > > Matt Liotta wrote: > > > Guys, > > > > We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are > > backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in > > the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but > > the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do > > high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something > > that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the > > Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full > > duplex. > > > > 24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us. > > > > -Matt > > > > -- > Bob Moldashel > Lakeland Communications, Inc. > Broadband Deployment Group > 1350 Lincoln Avenue > Holbrook, New York 11741 USA > 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada > 631-585-5558 Fax > 516-551-1131 Cell > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need opinion
Hi Carlos You don't tell us what speed and/or reliability you need for that link. I tried the single radio repeater idea you are talking about. The results pretty well sucked. big time. However, I'm about to try it again with a protocol called wds. That's supposed to allow an ap work as both an ap and a client radio at the same time. It's supposed to do what you are asking. I'm sure that there will be a speed penalty though, hopefully just much less than it was last time I tried this. You'd end up with ap/noc<-->ap/wds<-->cpe/office We've got a person that we're about to install, he is the ONLY one that sees another customer that's wanted service for years. I'm going ot use a Tranzeo AP with a Teletronics splitter and a pair of Maxrad antennas. The backhaul to the main tower will be done with vertical and the one to the remote site will be horizontal. Having said all of that, you really should use 4 radios to do this. It'll be faster and more stable. Radios don't like to store and forward out one port. They like to rec. on one and tx on the other basically at the same time. Wish us both luck! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Carlos A. Garcia G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: [WISPA] Need opinion Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors do i have to contact: look! NOC <-->> POP <-->> OFFICE -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] The Holiday Season
I received an email from my support staff who was mad because a customer called screaming at them and the tech felt the installers weren't fixing problems aggressive enough. Normally this is a simple fix but during this stressful season both sides flew off in a rage. Our company dinner is tonight and I felt perhaps I should send a little reminder of who we are. I laugh when the first line says how much I hate the holidays but trust me it gets better. It's something us small business owners, especially in this business, have to remember to say when times get really stressful. I just thougth I'd pass it on, I hope your not offended by it: "You know what I really hate about the holiday season. People feel they are under so much pressure to give that they become asses to everyone else. Our customers become out of control crazy and our employees who deal with the same problems year round become more sensitive because you are under the same pressures personally for the holidays. Pretty soon employee comments get harsher in the notes and the reactions get more radical and everyone goes away miserable. I don't know about you but I can't wait for the end of the year so people can just calm down. No business is more affected then ours because if anything fails the customer calls screaming that we ruined their Christmas or some nonsence like that, gee thanks for ruining ours too, ya jerk. I just want to make sure you know that a smart remark in notes will be taken much more personally this time of year. Saying "I just wish you installers would go fix it" is going to be met with "I think you techs can come try and do our job" responses. Neither is a reasonable statement but I understand the pressure on both of you. The only thing you need to take away from this email is this. I support you and will be as flexible as you need to make sure this season is not a pressure filled as the rest of the world is making it. My daughter is ready to walk out of her job because her bosses are self serving and make no attempt to understand the added stress of the season and in fact are adding to it. I won't add to yours. Tonight we all have dinner and I want just for those few hours you to remember that we are all in this together and we are a highly moral company who always goes beyond the rest to take care of our customers even at personal expense. We may not be a good battle for the billion dollar corporations who just want to lose money to kill us but the core of our customers are still seeking somebody in this world who still really cares about them and thats us. So feel good that when the rest of the world seems to want to screw you we are caring about our customers and leading by example. Now take a breath and lets get back to work, see you tonight and Merry Christmas and all those other religious greetings that I am now required by the religious police to say. I got your back. Forbes " -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
fyi, I believe that it's oxygen that absorbs 60 gig. Not so much rain. Often companies tie 60 gig and FSO together for short hop very high speed redundant links. Each fades differently in different weather. Note, everything above 10 gig has rain fade, some bands just more so than others as I understand it. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options Replies below: Matt Liotta wrote: Guys, We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. Wow! Business must be good! We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX? I am looking for something that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex. 24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us. I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top end about 100 mbps FDX? I bet Bob Moldashel has hit this same wall before. What do you do in this situation Bob? He was one of the guys who helped put New York City data traffic back together after 911. Any thoughts Bob? Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
I have a handful of these in NYC and Wash DC. They kick ass and the company backs them 150%. They are my first licensed choice. Ceragon is my second. -B- Bob Moldashel wrote: 170 Mb FD Dragonwave... About $20K Matt Liotta wrote: Guys, We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex. 24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us. -Matt -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Andrea Coppini (AIR Networks) wrote: Are you looking at Unlicensed? I'm a fan of Mikrotik for high throughput, long distance links. With bonding you can easily get > 100Mbps speeds, just keep adding links as your need grows. See this: 150 Mbps FDX, unlicensed, with failover http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Super_wireless_test We won't use Wi-Fi radios for backhaul and we don't want to bond. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
What distances do you need? 5 to 10 miles is a big swing for some gear What's your budget? A series of 60 gig radios might work well for ya. Certainly the Dragonwave 24 gig gear should do. You might also look at Harris or Microwave networks licensed gear. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:44 AM Subject: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options Guys, We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex. 24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Matt, The Orthagon 600 series is supposed to do 300 mb on a 30 Mhz channel. I believe they do this using both vert and hor polarity. Is this the system you are out growing? Tim Kerns - Original Message - From: "Brad Belton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:39 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options While I'm a fan of MikroTik, the test setup you show is not a viable solution in a real world deployment. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Coppini (AIR Networks) Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:27 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options Are you looking at Unlicensed? I'm a fan of Mikrotik for high throughput, long distance links. With bonding you can easily get > 100Mbps speeds, just keep adding links as your need grows. See this: 150 Mbps FDX, unlicensed, with failover http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Super_wireless_test -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: 12 December 2006 4:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options Guys, We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex. 24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need opinion
I have just recived an answer from chad saying that starOS its a good choice, thanks chad ill check it, for your question yes i w'd like to play, i have never deployed my routers, but i really would like to, so im like a newbie compared to the people in this list but im hungry to learn the how to, thanks to everybody, this is an amazing list. Mario Pommier escribió: Carlos, that's your first item, your line of thinking seems accurate: Cisco, Proxim, Trango, Alvarion, StarOS, Mikrotik -- what equipment will you choose and what is the advantage/disadvantage of each. Maybe your first perspective is: do you want to go with a "finished, packaged" product, or do you want to be able to "play more with the tools and toys" out there? The type of computer person you are may be a good guide: do you deploy your own Unix/Linux based routers or do you buy Cisco finished products? Hope that helps some. Mario Carlos A. Garcia G wrote: Thank u very much, but the question it is, i do not know many equipments, i have only work with cisco aironet, the last time i do something similar and get the cisco 1300 series the problem it is that in order that this work i have to use 4 radios 1300<-->[1300 -ethernet-1300]<-->1300 and what i need it is to know for example: the proxim LMG22 work in 5.8 and can be used as: LMG22<-->LMG22<-->LMG22 im currently looking with cisco, proxym, trango, mikrotik but i dont get the answer that im looking for. Mike Brownson escribió: Carlos, It all depends on how big a hill and what speed you need. There is some PtP equipment (Motorola PtP, formerly Orthogon) that can talk over the hill in one link if the hill is not too big or the distance is not too long. Other option is to put another repeater in between. But that means another radio site. If you want to send me latitude and longitude of both sites I can see if the one radio link will work. Mike B Carlos A. Garcia G wrote: Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors do i have to contact: look! NOC <-->> POP <-->> OFFICE -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Agreed, 18GHz should fit the bill nicely for 100Mbps in the 5-10 miles range. 80GHz will do 100Mbps - 1000Mbps up to about 3-4miles. I hear 65GHz will do 100Mbps - 1000Mbps beyond 5miles. Of course it all depends on your acceptable uptime requirement. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options Replies below: Matt Liotta wrote: > Guys, > > We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. Wow! Business must be good! > We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an > option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's > products, but the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product > that can do high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX? > I am looking for something that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. > I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get > us past 100Mbps full duplex. > > 24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us. I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top end about 100 mbps FDX? I bet Bob Moldashel has hit this same wall before. What do you do in this situation Bob? He was one of the guys who helped put New York City data traffic back together after 911. Any thoughts Bob? Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
170 Mb FD Dragonwave... About $20K Matt Liotta wrote: Guys, We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex. 24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us. -Matt -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
While I'm a fan of MikroTik, the test setup you show is not a viable solution in a real world deployment. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Coppini (AIR Networks) Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:27 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options Are you looking at Unlicensed? I'm a fan of Mikrotik for high throughput, long distance links. With bonding you can easily get > 100Mbps speeds, just keep adding links as your need grows. See this: 150 Mbps FDX, unlicensed, with failover http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Super_wireless_test -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: 12 December 2006 4:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options Guys, We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex. 24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Are you looking at Unlicensed? I'm a fan of Mikrotik for high throughput, long distance links. With bonding you can easily get > 100Mbps speeds, just keep adding links as your need grows. See this: 150 Mbps FDX, unlicensed, with failover http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Super_wireless_test -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: 12 December 2006 4:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options Guys, We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex. 24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Replies below: Matt Liotta wrote: Guys, We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. Wow! Business must be good! We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX? I am looking for something that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex. 24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us. I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top end about 100 mbps FDX? I bet Bob Moldashel has hit this same wall before. What do you do in this situation Bob? He was one of the guys who helped put New York City data traffic back together after 911. Any thoughts Bob? Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
Guys, We are now exceeding Orthogon's capacity on a regular basis. We are backhauling as much as we can with fiber, but that isn't an option in the suburbs. We have had good success with BridgeWave's products, but the distance is a problem. Any suggestions on a product that can do high throughput in the 5-10 mile range? I am looking for something that can easily exceed 100Mbps full duplex. I know the specs of the Orthogon Spectra and no it doesn't really get us past 100Mbps full duplex. 24Ghz unlicensed is looking like the sweet spot for us. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need opinion
Carlos, that's your first item, your line of thinking seems accurate: Cisco, Proxim, Trango, Alvarion, StarOS, Mikrotik -- what equipment will you choose and what is the advantage/disadvantage of each. Maybe your first perspective is: do you want to go with a "finished, packaged" product, or do you want to be able to "play more with the tools and toys" out there? The type of computer person you are may be a good guide: do you deploy your own Unix/Linux based routers or do you buy Cisco finished products? Hope that helps some. Mario Carlos A. Garcia G wrote: Thank u very much, but the question it is, i do not know many equipments, i have only work with cisco aironet, the last time i do something similar and get the cisco 1300 series the problem it is that in order that this work i have to use 4 radios 1300<-->[1300 -ethernet-1300]<-->1300 and what i need it is to know for example: the proxim LMG22 work in 5.8 and can be used as: LMG22<-->LMG22<-->LMG22 im currently looking with cisco, proxym, trango, mikrotik but i dont get the answer that im looking for. Mike Brownson escribió: Carlos, It all depends on how big a hill and what speed you need. There is some PtP equipment (Motorola PtP, formerly Orthogon) that can talk over the hill in one link if the hill is not too big or the distance is not too long. Other option is to put another repeater in between. But that means another radio site. If you want to send me latitude and longitude of both sites I can see if the one radio link will work. Mike B Carlos A. Garcia G wrote: Hi i have a problem i need to establish a wireless link betwen my ofice and another ofice there are a hill betwen so what equipment or vendors do i have to contact: look! NOC <-->> POP <-->> OFFICE -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/