Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Criminalizing Homelessness

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On  8 Jan 99 , YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

> >And a general explosion of the not-in-my-backyard
> >syndrome among the less-than-liberal public as it raced toward yuppie
> >excess dreaming of riches and power.
>
> Yes, but that happened circa 1980, not 1988...

It's still happening. Recently, on the Upper West Side of NYC--the
project did finally go through and is, I think, operating
successfully. And up here in N. Bennington, VT--where I'm not quite
sure of the outcome.

Great deal of divisiveness and contention about having "those people"
in the neighborhood.




sno0wl

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Om

[CTRL] Thanks k :))

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

Except for the slavery bizness in the South, I was beginning to think
GB had joined us. :)) Although it would seem that someone who was
making money in oil would certainly know how to shelter his profits
so he paid NO taxes.

sno0wl

On  8 Jan 99 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Hawk,
> You really are a pain.
>
> Yeah, Jesus gives blessings to all the little slavemasters. This and your
> constant disruptions about political bs  are getting you a no post. Go back to
> vaction Bible school.
>
> There are plenty of other forums you can disrupt.
>
> Om
> K
>
> In a message dated 1/7/99 7:14:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >That's bullshit, too.  I don't "take resources" from anyone... That's what
> >facsists and socialists (such as you) do.  I purchase what I use from willing
> >sellers What I do with them after that is none of your business...
> >Furthermore, you haven't a clue as to whether I use them for necessities or
> >frivolous purposes.
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
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>
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> 
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>
sno0wl

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Om

[CTRL] Brain:Whatever happened to....

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

Whatever happened to Charley Hayes? Did he ever get out of jail or is
he still in prison somewhere?




sno0wl

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Om

[CTRL] Warren Harding

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

As a matter of fact there was --about ten years ago--an absolutely wonderful,
hysterically funny, "cult" novel (meaning not a bestseller but appealing to a small
group of dedicated readers) about Warren Harding set in Hollywoodand I think
Warren Harding was in the titleand I can't, for the life of me, remember it's name.
Was it "The Life and Loves of Warren Harding"? "My Search for Warren Harding"?It
really was a funny, delightful novel. Full of old movie stars.


sno0wl

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Om

Re: [CTRL] DRUDGE-REPORT-EXCLUSIVE 01/10/99

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 10 Jan 99, , DRUDGE wrote:

>
> X DRUDGE REPORT X 01/10/99 07:08 UTC X
>
>
> WHITE HOUSE DNA CHASE:  TEEN DOING 'WELL' AFTER NEWS OF 'NO MATCH'
>
> **Exclusive**
>
> He had been told all of his life by his mother that Bill Clinton was his
> father, but late this week, 13-year old Danny Williams of Arkansas learned
> the truth:  He is not.

Just goes to show you that if you've got "friends" like Dick Morris, you don't need
enemies.


sno0wl

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Brian--Whatever happened to....

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

Oops--pardon my spelling. The question's still the same :))

On 10 Jan 99, , Sno0wl wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Whatever happened to Charley Hayes? Did he ever get out of jail or is
> he still in prison somewhere?
>
>
>
>
> sno0wl
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
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> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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>
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> 
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> Om
>


sno0wl

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Om

Re: [CTRL] KKK

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 10 Jan 99, , Carlene wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> >  I have seen KKK "rallies" on TV, and it is almost comical... There are about six
> > KKK-ers, 600 policemen, 500 "news" reporters, and 50 or 60 hecklers booing the KKK
> > guys.
> >
>
> Me too, in Wisconsin
> --
That's because they all packed their bags, put on their three-piece suits, and went to
Washington to the CCC caucus, where they could be addressed by Senators
Livingston and Lott, and others of their ilk. They went there so the senators could 
tell
them what fine, upstanding moral folks they are. What great "values" they've got. And
what a great job they're doing!!!


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Nurev: Jews use Christian blood for matzoh.

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 10 Dec 98 ,Prudy wrote:

> >Uh,... I think it was a joke Ed.

To which Edward Britton replied:

> It's not to me.

Satire--even in the worst possible taste--is still satire.

But enough, nurev.

sno0wl

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

I would say that this list is in deep trouble---again.

Didn't we go through all this already with the guys who thought some Nazis were
"nice."  Now we're doing it with some other guys who think some slavery is okay?
and who are doubletalking about racism? Are we back to Bible-thumping? All it seems
to lead to are stupid flames and name-calling--which I thought was not allowed on this
list.

Do I have to make a whole new filtering list so my program just deletes these
unfortunate posts?

Wha's goin' on here? I haven't got the time to waste.

sno0wl


On 15 Jan 99, , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 1/15/99 9:20:47 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >>  -Caveat Lector-
> >>
> >> My, my getting testy aren't we.
> >>
> >> In a message dated 1/14/99 11:58:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>
> >> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>  -Caveat Lector-
> >> >>
> >> >> Gee, hypocrite hawk, how come we are not still doing this today? Taking
> >> slaves in warfare? I mean the Bible says we can; sez H. Hawk.

sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Larry Flynt on C-SPAN tonight.

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 13 Jan 99, , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>   I am curious.  Do you think the liberal left would mind  some
>conservative
> dude
> said he would put up 1 million dollars for information about the Democrats
> and their sex lives?  The answer is a resounding YES.  The liberals and
> the left would squall their heads off.  We would hear weeks of tales and
> stories about how the right has gone off the deep end blah blah blah.
> Naturally  the liberal left doesn't mind when its pointed to the right.
>   As for "family values" we should remember that  Clinton/Gore who
> got on the "family values" platform in 1992 and 1996 when they were
> reelected.

I think we've already been through this--with millions and millions of dollars of 
Scaiffe
money--not to mention 40 million dollars of taxpayer money. All these millions have
been directed at digging up dirt on Clinton. While more and more American children
are growing up in povertyand more and more working American families have no
health care. Just like the good ol' 50s, except now it takes two or three working 
adults
to provide a non-living wage.

So what's Larry Flynt's paltry million dollar offer. Not even an equal shot.

I'm getting concerned that this list is leaning so heavily to the right. And I hear 
that
David Duke--the Grand Old Wizard--will be running for Congress, too. Wouldn't it be
weird if it turned out that Charley Manson was right--even if his timing was off by a
decade or two.


sno0wl

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[CTRL] (Fwd) - Save our seeds!

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

--- Forwarded Message Follows ---

Hi Everyone:

Below is a sample letter to the parties listed requesting the denying of
Monsanto right to a patent to sterlize heriloom seeds. If this goes through,
farmers and hobby growers would not be able to save seeds because they would
be sterile! This greed can be stopped if enough people write now. This issue
is due for a vote soon!

If you want to help send the letter below, or one of your own composition,
using your name, to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Also, please CC. copies to the list of C.C. copies that are listed at the end
of the letter. It would also help to send this to anyone you know who might
want to help.

Thanks!
Namaste!
Marilyn


The Honorable Dan Glickman
Secretary of Agriculture
200-A Whitten Bldg.
1400 Independence Ave., SW
Washington  DC  20250

FROM:

Concerned Citizen, Marilyn Wright, [EMAIL PROTECTED]   (put your name
here)


Dear Secretary Glickman,

I am writing to ask that the USDA immediately cease negotiations to  license
the Terminator technology to a Monsanto subsidiary (Delta and  Pine Land Co.).
I also urge the USDA to abandon its worldwide patent  applications on this
immoral and dangerous technology.

The Terminator technology (US patent #5,723,765) is a genetic technology that
renders farm-saved seed sterile. This technology has no agronomic  benefit and
should never see the commercial light of day.   The  Terminator violates
Farmers' Rights and threatens agricultural  biodiversity.  The Terminator
isn't about improving agriculture, it is  about sterilizing seeds, wresting
control of seeds and plant breeding  from farmers, and fattening Monsanto's
profits. According to Delta and  Pine Land, Monsanto stands to make as much as
US $1.5 billion per year using the Terminator to force farmers to return to
the commercial  seed market every year.  This is not progress, it is a threat
to global  food security and an egregious use of public research money.

As a public agency dedicated to promoting agriculture, USDA should be  taking
steps to safeguard the rights of farmers to save seed, not  designing
technologies to eliminate those rights.  In light of the  alarming rate of
consolidation in the seed industry, I urge USDA to launch a public inquiry
into the impacts of seed industry consolidation on farmers and food security.

The Terminator is an anti-farmer, anti-biodiversity technology - paid  for by
public money - and in large part aimed, according to USDA and Delta and Pine
Land, at farmers in developing countries.  USDA and  Monsanto have indicated
in Patent Cooperation Treaty documents that  they intend to pursue patents on
the Terminator in at least 87 countries.
National applications are moving forward - or have issued - in Australia,
Brazil, Canada, Japan, South Africa, most European countries, and  probably
more jurisdictions.

Scientists warn that, under certain conditions, the trait for seed
sterility will flow, via pollen, from Terminator crops to surrounding  plants,
making the seeds of neighboring plants sterile. Given the  profound risks to
food security and the environment, especially in the biodiversity-rich South,
the Terminator patent embodies the kind of  threat to public morality
described in Article 27(2) of the WTO TRIPs  agreement.

The Terminator technology is a dead-end for farmers and a threat to  food
security worldwide.  It is morally unacceptable, and it must be  banned. I
respectfully urge you to stop the Terminator technology and  cease
negotiations for its commercial development.

USDA should work for farmers and the people - not Monsanto. Permitting this
abhorable plan would be incredibly inflationary for the citizenry and be a
hardship for many. It is also never wise for man to interfere with God's plan.
When the food is controlled by a conglomerate, if there is a failure in crops,
there wouldn't be enough live seed in the system to avoid world wide
starvation. Please use your head and heart and not sell out to industry and
greed consciousness.

Respectfully,
Marilyn Wright


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gives 

Re: [CTRL] Calif.: $10 MM Fluoridation Grant

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 15 Jan 99, , Lyn wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> California Headlines Friday January 15 6:44 AM ET
>
> Grant To Help Fluoridate Water - (SACRAMENTO) -- An endowment supported by
> the dental community has donated ten-Million-dollars to help California
> cities add fluoride to their water supplies. The grant from the California
> Endowment will help buy equipment and materials for cities that plan to
> fluoridate their drinking water. State health officials say only 17-percent
> of the state's drinking water is fluoridated to protect citizens from tooth
> decay.


There was a segment on one of the "magazine" shows warning parents that, if their
children were drinking bottled water, they weren't getting flouride.Telling them to 
check
the labels and --of course--pressuring the bottled water folks to put flouride in 
bottled
water, too!!  Why do they think folks are drinking bottled water
sno0wl

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==
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Re: [CTRL] Mr. Blackwell

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 14 Jan 99, , YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

> But now that Lewinsky is coming off as 'a good girl', e.g. she's kept her
> mouth shut and hasn't been running off to the tabloids to tell her story,

I don't think she can do that until the trial is over. Can she?
sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 14 Jan 99, , Hawk wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > Howdy Hypocrite,
>
> Good morning... Having a nice day?
>
> > Whatsa matter, ain't got time to reply to my queries?
>
> I haven't seen any Is it something you sent today?
>
> > So, pray tell, what are the "proper hermaneutical procedures"? Are they
> > consistent?
>
> "Hermaneutics" is the art or science of "interpretation" primarily of written
> documents, and is usually applied to biblical interpretation.  However, the
> "rules" are common in literature and historical/archealogical fields, and are not
> restricted to bible study.  Check this site:
> http://www.greatnorthern.net/~ken/herm.html

Congratulations, Hawk!

You have made it to my Filter-Delete list.

I have absolutely no idea what you are doing here. I have absolutely no idea what
you're trying to say to people on this list that has any value.. And until something
convinces me otherwise, I want to save the bandwith.

IMO, Kris is making a mistake trying to "argue" with you. I'm sorry to see that. You
are clearly a no-win kinda guy.

Enjoy your Mercedes. Have a nice day.





sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Om

[CTRL] (Fwd) DISEASE OUTBREAK IN FLORIDA

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

>HEMORRHAGIC DISEASE, DOGS - USA (FLORIDA)
While this is about dogs and comes from another list, I thought it was significant.
I've just been reading all the contrail postings.

sno0wl


--- Forwarded Message Follows ---

Here is a government statement on the outbreak.  Everyone be
careful on
the
Fla circuit and at Westminister.  Please pass this along.  This is how
the
Parvo outbreak started in Ca back in the 70's and spread across the
country.
Please post to your lists.

>HEMORRHAGIC DISEASE, DOGS - USA (FLORIDA)
>***
>A ProMED-mail post
><http://www.healthnet.org/programs/promed.html>
><http://www.fas.org/promed/ahead>
>
>Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 18:39:50 -0500
>From: "George A. Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>jlentino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, &
>Peter Cyrog, DVM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Source: News agency [edited]
>
>
>Florida -- Derby Lane, the world's oldest continuously operating
dog
>track, was closed Friday after six greyhounds have died from a
mystery
>illness and other dogs were ill with a pneumonia-like illness. More
>than 100 other dogs, mostly 2- and 3-year-olds, are suffering from
>this highly contagious cough. The dogs are coughing up blood and
the
>pathologist involved is uncertain as to the cause, labeling it a
>mystery.
>
>Dr. William Castleman, the University of Florida pathologist who
>performed an autopsy on one of the dogs, Gaffer, from the St.
>Petersburg race track. "Is it something new?'' Castleman asked. "Is
>it a common infection that's just taken a new turn? We don't know.
>But the fact [that] this dog became very ill and started bleeding and
>died has us thinking there has to be something else going on
here.''
>Castleman said it will probably take two weeks before scientists
can
>isolate the pneumonia-like virus.
>
>Trainers reported that dogs suffering the mystery illness were
>bleeding through the nose and the mouth, discharging bloody
stools.
>Some had blood vessels in their skin burst. "Whatever type of
>infection this is, it breaks down the clotting mechanisms in the
dog.''
>
>The track imposed a quarantine on its greyhounds and set up an
>around-the-clock infirmary to combat the illness, which officials
say
>poses no threat to humans. A necropsy confirmed that one of the
dogs
>died of a viral respiratory disease and had internal bleeding, said
>Sarah Casey, spokeswoman for the University of Florida College
of
>Veterinary Medicine. [With veterinarians involved, it may not be
>_Bordetella_ spp, the common "kennel cough" - Mod.TG]
>
>The dogs at Hollywood Greyhound Track [Florida] have been put
under
>quarantine after several greyhounds came down with a virus
different
>than the one in St. Petersburg, Garry Duell, assistant racing
>secretary at the track, said Sunday. "It's not the same virus," he
>insisted. "It's the normal kennel cough that they get this time of
>year.'' Several dogs were scratched from the race card Saturday
but
>none were taken off Sunday, Duell said.
>
>Dog tracks in Daytona Beach, Jacksonville, Miami, Naples and
Orlando
>also have quarantined their dogs as a precaution. Races will
probably
>be scratched at Derby Lane at least through Wednesday, track
general
>manager Vey Weaver said. Derby Lane is one of  the largest
taxpaying
>pari-mutuels in the state. About 1100 dogs were scheduled to race
>there this year. Because of the virus scare, Greyhound Protection
>League, a San Francisco-based anti-racing group, has urged
owners to
>impose a nationwide quarantine at the greyhound tracks.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
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Om

Re: [CTRL] More Tobacco Lawsuits

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 20 Jan 99, , Linda wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> TOBACCO LITIGATION
>
>
> [01/20] Clinton announces plans to sue tobacco companies
> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Justice Department is planning a lawsuit against
> tobacco companies to recover the costs to the federal government of
> smoking-related illnesses, President Clinton said Tuesday night.
>
> ``Taxpayers shouldn't pay for the cost of lung cancer, emphysema and other
> smoking-related illnesses. The tobacco companies should,'' Clinton said in a
> surprise announcement in his State of the Union speech.

As a smoker, I note that, in the past two years, the price of a carton of cigarettes 
has
gone up about $4.Soon their will be an additional tax added, which will add another
couple of bucks. . Which means that the tobacco companies are not paying. The
consumer pays.

Although I've never tried it, I think you can get a hit of crack cheaper than a pack of
cigarettes. And soon a pack of cigarettes will cost about the same as heroin. I'm an
adult. But I understand that it will soon be  easier--and less risky--and cheaper for a
teenager to get hard drugs than a pack of cigarettes.

That's real progress.
sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] This is the dawning of the New Age New world Order I

[Sno0wl]

 both a wealthy community and the children of the poor who served them, I
think that young people need --in varying degrees according to the culture they come
from --structure, need the security of order, but also need the opportunity to learn 
and
explore in a "progressive" atmosphere that supports learning, learning to learn, 
learning
to love learning and the new vistas it opens without the limitations and strictures of
religious discipline.

Progressivism and NWO are not the same. People who are free to learn and think do
not want to be ruled by a totalitarian state. The failures of modern education have
nothing to do with progressivism. NWO is anti-progressive. It takes us back to the
days of the Industrial Revolution, reviving child labor abroad to increase its profits
without scruple. It will take us back to fuedalism, leaving us scratching in the earth 
to
grow a carrot or potato to survive, as it centers our economy in the hands of the new
wealthy warlords who would offer us religion as a solace for the sorry state of our
worldly affairs.

Wanting equity and opportunity in life do not make one a communist. Progressive
education is not a NWO plot.










sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] State Govt Photos-Capture Your Soul?

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 2 Feb 99, , flw wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Maybe the Aborigine's belief that a photo is
> dangerous because it can capture
> the soul is more true then not.
> flw
>
> >NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY
>
> >Should state governments be allowed
> >to sell your drivers license photo?
> >
> >WASHINGTON, DC -- The decision by three
> states to sell millions
> >of drivers license photographs to a private
> company is a "picture
> >perfect" example of why you can't trust
> politicians to protect your
> >privacy, the Libertarian Party said today.
> >
> >"Without your permission, politicians in
> three states have
> >decided to sell your most personal possession --
> your image," said
> >Steve Dasbach, the party's national director. "If
> we don't stop them
> >now, what will they sell next?"

They're already selling our DNA. And patenting it, too! What's a photo when they could
actually clone you without your knowledge?


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] THE HIDDEN TYRANNY

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 11 Dec 98 , Jim wrote:

> If you wonder why this stuff is rising everywhere on the internet, check
> out the insulting "defense" being given by Clinton's defenders (heavily
> Jews such as Woody Allen Body Double Alan Dershowitz and the vicious
> Margaret Holtzman, Charles Schumer, Lanny Davis, Rahm, Emanuel, Barnie
> Frank, Jerry Adler etc. etc. etc.). There are others who are not Jewish,
> but only the brain dead fail to see how over-represented this one small
> fraction of the population is in so many evil movements. There is much,
> much smaller group of articulate and, I would say, courageous Jews who
> are opposing this crowd, such as those who are helping to bring eveyone
> the Middle East Realities (MER) list on the web. I gather these intrepid
> souls are paid for their trouble to express their honest opinions with
> ostracism from many elite circles.

Just to remind you that 68% of the American population does NOT want
Clinton impeached. Only 3% are Jewish. What you are saying reflects a
strong bias.

> Schumer and the whole crowd of super-zionists would send 1,000,000
> American boys to their death to defend the anti-Christian state of
> Israel if necessary, without batting an eye; and myself and a growing
> number Americans just aren't going to remain silent while complete the
> hi-jacking of this nation. As one elderly gentlemen I knew asked years
> ago in rhetorical fashion, "Who are these people who want to be above
> criticism?  Jim Condit Jr.

Did it ever occur to you that the US couldn't care less about Israel.
or Jews.  That the real interest is Mid-Eastern oil and the balance
of power in that part of the world? Israel is the lynch-pin to US
power in that area.

Wm Turnstill gave an excellent,  balanced reply to your post. I just
wanted to add this as something to think about.




sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] The Wonderful Wizard of Oz

[Sno0wl]

 to Merlin that says,> Love and cooperation rule in Oz, and 
Masons seek light and harmony. Before meeting the Wizard in Oz, the cowardly lion says 
he will do what's necessary until the Wizard "promises to give US wha
t we d> There is also a certain existentialist and gnostic  (transcendental 
"self") aspect to The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. The Wizard in Oz tells Dorothy's 
companions that what they most desire is alr> says: "Baum's concern is with the 
presentatio
n of reality and worth and of the power of the Self: In terms of the Rogerian [Carl 
Rogers, 1964 Humanist of the Year] method of treatment a faith in the > Just 
as in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz individuals are told they'll find the power to solve
 problems within themselves, the same is true in the more recent book and movie Star 
Wars. Similarly,>
> What Masons say they desire most is "light," which is also very important in 
>the Oz books. In Tik-Tok of Oz, there is the palace of the Queen of Light, and when 
>Dorothy enters the Wizard's th> of his falling; he believes that a word "means just
 what I choose it to mean'; and he feels "the question is, which is to be  the master. 
"The story also contains an episode with a lion and a unicorn> Commons: "I am told 
that a British minister has boasted - and a very unwise boast it was - that he had o
nly to hold up his hand and he could raise a revolution in Italy tomorrow.  A 
great prince >
> The Masonic Connection
>
>
> The term "point of light" is also used in Masonry and the occult, with "point" 
>standing for the points on the
> Mason's compass, and "light" standing for "truth." "Light" also comes from the 
>heavens, as the name "Blue Lodge" comes from Masons' "ancient brethren who met under 
>the starry canopy of heaven," accor> Perhaps coincidental is the fact that 
>Mason
 Charles Willson Peale (born 1741) painted at least two portraits (including the first 
portrait ever painted) of George Washington with the latter's> "Although I hold the 
highest civil honor in the world, I have always regarded my rank and title as a pas
t grand master of Masons as the greatest honor that has ever come to me" (Empire State 
Mason, F>
sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] New multi million dollar republicans

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On  9 Dec 98 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> With in months from not there will be a new
> group of multi million dollar republicans.
>
> This big sack may not appear in the congressmen
> bank accounts, it will be laundered through the
> best route the political mob has.
>
> The name of these republicans come under the
> "undecided" republicans.
> #1  The democrats will count to see how many republicans
> they need to stop the impeachment ...
> #2  And it will be those republicans who will (a) see the
> light of clinton and (b) have millions of dollars drop from
> heaven on them.
Where would the Democrats get that kind of money?

Everyone knows that they have so much trouble raising any, they have
to go overseas to get it.

When Clinton was accused of getting $7 million illegally, Dole was
accused of getting $17 million illegally--but this Dole business was
just mentioned as an afterthought. If you blinked, you would have
missed it.

Republicans, as Prudy and I know, can do no wrong. And never have sex
either.

Used to be if you had sex, you had to worry about getting pregnant.
Then you had to worry about getting AIDS. Now you have to worry about
incurring million dollar legal bills. Wonder where all the fun has
gone.




sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] "Heads Up": Bill Clinton Is Finished

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

Just one more case of the media--which seems to be in the pocket of
the Republicans and the radical right and whoever the puppetmasters
are--calling the shots before the play is done.

Nothing new. They haven't stopped all year and they're not about to
stop now. The only thing that makes this "surprising" is the
polls--which still say this is NOT what the American public wants.
And that is the most frightening element of this whole thing. That
neither the Congressional majority nor the media cares a fig what the
electorate wants.

Someone here made an excellent post some time back about the
humiliation of Democratic presidents in our time. They have not
merely been accused of "wrongdoing," but have been dragged before the
American public in shame.

I wouldn't be surprised if Clinton met with some unfortunate accident
on his current tripIt will be interesting to see if he gets back
in one piece.

Make no mistake. This is a bloodless coup. And all of you who think
that you hate/dislike/disapprove of Clinton are not going to like
what comes nextbut you will deserve it.





sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] THE DARK SIDE OF THE GOOD NEWS

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

> Murray suggests that there may be a downside to the shift of
> single mothers from welfare to work.  No body of research exists
> to demonstrate that it is good for children when a single mother
> works, he points out.
>
> "Can the U.S. retain its political and social culture," Murray
> asks, "in the presence of a permanent underclass?"  His answer is
> yes, if it is "sufficiently small."  If it is large, he believes,
> the answer is no.
>
> He points out that underclass ethics -- among all races -- are
> deteriorating and contributing to a coarsening of American life.
>
> Source: Charles Murray (American Enterprise Institute), "And Now
> for the Bad News," Wall Street Journal, February 2, 1999.

Another "bad side" of the "good news" is that older women with disabilities are being
forced from welfare to work that  is essentially life-threatening for them. In a case
reported on NPR, a 55 year-old woman with a serious heart condition was forced to
take a job cleaning parks. When she went to legal aid to make a complaint about her
situation, the legal aid society discovered that Clinton had signed a bill forbidding  
legal
aid societies from defending the rights of welfare complainants who believe they are
being denied rights to which they are entitled.

Interesting. If benefits are denied you unfairly, you have no right to file a legal 
complaint!
Now it's work or die. This bill is currently being challenged in court by the legal aid
societies.

This may rankle some on this list, but as the 40-somethings are being dislodged from
their corporate niches in favor of the cheaper 20-somethings, even you may, one day,
come to appreciate the importance of these issues.


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Pentagon Wants Emergency Authority Within USA

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 2 Feb 99, , Teo wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 2/2/99 7:10:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << But civil libertarians and some Administration officials fear that such
>  military power could slowly expand to threaten the privacy, liberty and
>  lives of private citizens.  Defenders of the plan, including Pentagon
>  officials, insist that it would do no such thing and that the nation
>  needed homeland defense to deal with terrorists armed with deadly germs,
>  chemicals and skills for attacking the nation's key computer networks.
>
>  Military officials added that they had no intention of usurping
>  civilian control.
>
>  "Our only appropriate role is in support of civil agencies that have
>  the primary responsibility for law and order and emergency response,"
>  John J. Hamre, the Deputy Secretary of Defense, said in an interview.
>   >>
>
> Are they supposed to say; "Yeah, we want to grab control and will do so as
> soon as it is feasible."?  Give me a break, the military says it is not
> interesting in seizing civil control!  It will indeed mean an interference
> with our rights and privacy.  Any time the military intervenes it means that
> people are displaced, lives are lost, and privacy, and freedoms are lost.

Does this create some interesting new conflict between FEMA and the Pentagon?


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Re: [CTRL] My Defining Moment.(Was Fascism On The Move)

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 5 Feb 99, , kimberly wrote:

>  The American People (including the "compassionate"
> > leftists) shrugged it off
> > and the general comment was "they got what they
> > deserved."
> >
> > Fascism had surely arrived.
> >
> > And it was applauded.
> > flw

Now, exactly what makes you think it was the "leftists" who "applauded this.

Seems to me it was the right-wing Conservatives who were most pleased that "justice"
had been done and the "rule of law" had prevailed.


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Om

Re: [CTRL] SKYWRITING FOR THE SENATE TOMORROW !!

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 4 Feb 99, , Bill wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> SKYWRITING FOR THE SENATE TOMORROW !!
> --
> 
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
> TOMORROW.,..FRIDAYFEBRUARY 5, 1999.WASHINGTON, DC
>
> POINT YOUR CAMERAS UPWARD AT 9:00 AM.   THERE WILL BE A MESSAGE TO  THE
> CONGRESS.WRITTEN IN THE SKY!
>
>  THIS IS GOD
>  CONVICT + REMOVE
>   OR ELSE
>
> Donations for this skywriting event as well as for  two Superbowl banner
> planes were raised in a matter of days from partiscipants on the noted
> Internet political web site, FreeRepublic.com.  Members of the site, with
> screen names like "Seeking the Truth", "Thomas Paine", "Clinton's a Liar" and
> "Ayn Rand",  comment on current events, news columns, and articles.

The world has indeed gone truly mad. Everyone thinks they're God. Everyone thinks
they know what God means and wants.

I guess after God doesn't get his way, all sorts of "acts of wrath" can be expected to
follow.

Haven't some of these guys been on this list?

sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] My Defining Moment.(Was Fascism On The Move)

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

Thanks, Barley, but I'm not "trying." I knew the post came from flw--I was just adding
to the threadnot accusing you of anything. Chill out.

sno0wl



On 5 Feb 99, , kimberly wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Sno0wl wrote:
>
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > On 5 Feb 99, , kimberly wrote:
> >
> > >  The American People (including the "compassionate"
> > > > leftists) shrugged it off
> > > > and the general comment was "they got what they
> > > > deserved."
> > > >
> > > > Fascism had surely arrived.
> > > >
> > > > And it was applauded.
> > > > flw
> >
>
>  Sorry sno owl I didn't write thatI asked what the mathmatical probability 
>was
> of knowing 85 dead people who had all died by suicide, murder, or plane
> crashes..Don't worry everyone makes mistakes ...just try harder next
> timeSincerely Barley
>
> > Now, exactly what makes you think it was the "leftists" who "applauded this.
> >
> > Seems to me it was the right-wing Conservatives who were most pleased that 
>"justice"
> > had been done and the "rule of law" had prevailed.
> >
> > sno0wl
> >
> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > ==
> > CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> > screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
> > and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> > frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
> > spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> > gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> > nazi's need not apply.
> >
> > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> > 
> > Archives Available at:
> > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> >
> > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> > 
> > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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> >
> > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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> >
> > Om
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
> Om
>


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] True History Of The English Language

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

LOL!!  Loved it. Hey--that was fun


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Fw: [FAIR-L] ACTION ALERT: MSNBC's "New" Lineup: Same Old R

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 6 Feb 99, , Alamaine wrote:

> : From: FAIR <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> : Subject: [FAIR-L] ACTION ALERT: MSNBC's "New" Lineup: Same Old
> Right-WingHosts
> : Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 7:05 PM
> :


Having listened to the Senate trial all day, it was interesting to hear NBC-TV news
tonite which did just as this says--presented material and snippets that supported the
Republican argument against Clinton, with a few tepid asides from Democrat
supporters.

Actually the whole afternoon showed pretty graphically that there was nothing new and
nothing to support the Republican arguments in the televised depositions. And when
Lindsey Graham made that remark about calls at 2 in the morning, there was an
uproar of laughter which was not reproduced on the evening news. One Democratic
Congresswoman insisted on showing Monica's entire deposition to show explicitly how
"snippets" had been taken out of context and exculpatory evidence had been ignored.
Seemed to me she proved her point.

Of course, then we cut straight to ET--and after all, what is all this but 
entertainment.
But it is entertainment that can have very serious consequences.

A neighbor of mine had an interesting insight based on the fact (?) that men think of
sex every few seconds. That every time Monica Lewinsky's name is mentioned, they
get a envious flash of Clinton getting oral sex and the envy and excitement of that 
just
keeps this circus going--all that envy and outrage. Since we don't function like that, 
a
lot of us gals think this is totally nutsbut maybe this explains it.

Actually, one of the things that has impressed me is that Clinton has never said a rude
word about either Paula or Monica--which is amazingly "gentlemanly" in this day and
age, and under the circumstances. And whatever he "did" to her is nowhere near as
damaging as the cruel humiliation this whole investigation has put her through. IMHO.
She is NOT complaining about sexual harassment.

Just a layer of the onion. I know that this is NOT what it's all about. I still think 
it's a
about a coup d'etat--by the smallest, meanest minds in America. Personally, I have no
interest in living under "Biblical Law."

I worry that Bosnia/Kosovo is just an experiment in turning a small radical-right
element against the rest of us--the majority of the citizenryand that it is indeed
going to happen here.



sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Scottish Biohazard Researcher Dies Mysteriously

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

One more "parnoid fantasy" that's been going the rounds for the past three or four
years coming true


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] [prj] DOPE SUPPORTERS

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 6 Feb 99, , nurev wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> "M. A. Johnson" wrote:
> >
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > Jeremy Brown:
> >   The point I am trying (in vain, it would appear) to make is that there
> >   are people in the world who think nothing of starting the day by
> >   smoking a rock of crack and then driving a school bus.
> >
> > MJ:
> > How exactly is passing a Law which says one cannot 'smoke a rock
> > of crack' going to ensure 'people' are NOT going to then 'drive a
> > school bus'?
> >
> > We have discriminatory drunk driving laws currently, but 'people' STILL
> > choose this behavior.
> >
> > Regard$,
> > --MJ
> >
> > Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains.
> >  -- Jean-Jacques Rousseau
>
> A law is like a warning. The law won't stop you from doing the act.
> BUT!
> If you do the act anyway and get caught, you will be punished for
> breaking
> the law AND getting caught. Obviously drunk drivers should be jailed
> for
> a considerable amount of time. Just to make a good impression.
>
> Since the state licenses you to drive, the state should REVOKE your
> license
> when you don't follow the law. Yes there are stupid laws on the books,
> but
> some of them are not. Safety laws are not.
>
> This is how modern society is organized. If you don't like it, move to
> Libertaria.
>

Hates to mention it , guys, but we already have very strict laws against "Driving Under
the Influence"--that's the influence of drugs OR alcohol. If you are cauight Driving 
Under
the Influence, your car can be impounded, you can lose your license (which means, in
some places, not being able to work) AND end up with a long jail sentence.


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Om

Re: [CTRL] You're NOT going to believe this!!!

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 8 Feb 99, , Edward wrote:

> Pay telephones drug users are now
>  taking their used needles and putting them into the coin return slots in
>  public telephones.

And how would anyone know if it is "drug users" who are doing this?
Now there's a conspiratorial thought.

sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] AOL Conspiracy?

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 8 Feb 99, , Stopforth, wrote:

>   You're assuming we're wrong here... If you would like a rational argument
> email me with your thoughts on Christianity, I'd be glad to discuss it with
> you, or anyone.
>
>   On a side note here, have you ever asked why it is we believe in the
> Biblical God?
>

There are many lists and groups on AOL where you can go to discuss Christianity and
the Biblical God. This is not one of them.

sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Kennedy Down

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

I've been off the list for a time so someone else may already have noted this but:

Last night, around 8 o'clock. I went to my home page which contains top news stories
from Reuters.There was an article stating that the Coast Guard had found something
and would soon make an announcement. The spokesman stated that what they had
found could spark a serious "investigation" that might last some time.

I went back to the some place an hour later and that story had been replaced by
another. All the previous stories were listed below it--but the above story about the
Coast Guard being about to make an "announcement" was not among them. It had
just vanished.

Not again  Did anyone else see the story about the impending Coast Guard
announcement?


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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[CTRL] John John

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

I've been away for a bit and just returned. Don't know whether the following has 
already
been discussed regarding the downing of John Jr.'s plane

http://www.trufax.org/hotmail/montauk.html

and then, on another list, someone posted this, saying--and I certainly can't verify 
this--
 that it was tested last Friday

  Big Bang machine could
 destroy Earth

   by Jonathan Leake
 Science Editor
A NUCLEAR accelerator designed to replicate the Big Bang
is under investigation by international physicists because of
fears that it might cause "perturbations of the universe" that
could destroy the Earth. One theory even suggests that it
could create a black hole.

Brookhaven National Laboratories (BNL), one of the
American government's foremost research bodies, has spent
eight years building its Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC)
on Long Island in New York state. A successful test-firing
was held on Friday and the first nuclear collisions will take
place in the autumn, building up to full power around the time
of the millennium.

Last week, however, John Marburger, Brookhaven's
director, set up a committee of physicists to investigate
whether the project could go disastrously wrong. It followed
warnings by other physicists that there was a tiny but real risk
that the machine, the most powerful of its kind in the world,
had the power to create "strangelets" - a new type of matter
made up of sub-atomic particles called "strange quarks".

The committee is to examine the possibility that, once formed,
strangelets might start an uncontrollable chain reaction that
could convert anything they touched into more strange matter.
The committee will also consider an alternative, although less
likely, possibility that the colliding particles could achieve such
a high density that they would form a mini black hole. In
space, black holes are believed to generate intense
gravitational fields that suck in all surrounding matter. The
creation of one on Earth could be disastrous.

Professor Bob Jaffe, director of the Centre for Theoretical
Physics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who is
on the committee, said he believed the risk was tiny but could
not be ruled out. "There have been fears that strange matter
could alter the structure of anything nearby. The risk is
exceedingly small but the probability of something unusual
happening is not zero."

Construction of the £350m RHIC machine started eight years
ago and is almost complete. On Friday scientists sent the first
beam of particles around the machine - but without
attempting any collisions.

Inside the collider, atoms of gold will be stripped of their
outer electrons and pumped into one of two 2.4-mile circular
tubes where powerful magnets will accelerate them to 99.9%
of the speed of light.

The ions in the two tubes will travel in opposite directions to
increase the power of the collisions. When they smash into
each other, at one of several intersections between the tubes,
they will generate minuscule fireballs of superdense matter
with temperatures of about a trillion degrees - 10,000 times
hotter than the sun. Such conditions are thought not to have
existed - except possibly in the heart of some dense stars -
since the Big Bang that formed the universe between 12
billion and 15 billion years ago.

Under such conditions atomic nuclei "evaporate" into a
plasma of even smaller particles called quarks and gluons.
Theoretical and experimental evidence predicts that such a
plasma would then emit a shower of other, different particles
as it cooled down.

Among the particles predicted to appear during this cooling
are strange quarks. These have been detected in other
accelerators but always attached to other particles. RHIC,
the most powerful such machine yet built, has the ability to
create solitary strange quarks for the first time since the
universe began.

BNL confirmed that there had been discussion over the
possibility of "perturbations in the universe". Thomas Ludlam,
associate project director of RHIC, said that the committee
would hold its first meeting shortly.

John Nelson, professor of nuclear physics at Birmingham
University who is leading the British scientific team at RHIC,
said the chances of an accident were infinitesimally small - but
Brookhaven had a duty to assess them. "The big question is
whether the planet will disappear in the twinkling of an eye. It
is astonishingly unlikely that there is any risk - but I could not
prove it," he said.





sno0wl

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CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different grou

Re: [CTRL] Kennedy Tragedies Linked To 'Risk-Taking Gene' - Israeli ex

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 21 Jul 99, , Ric wrote:

> Newborns as young as two weeks who have the gene are more alert and
> curious about the outside world, he said.
>

Obviously, what we need are more babies born who are less alert and less curious
about the outside world. Luckily, now that the gene has been pinpointed, we can catch
these dangerous babies, nipping them in the bud, so to speak,  before they can get a
real foothold and  f@#$k up our peaceful little world.
sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Why some of us fear Clinton?

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 24 Jul 99, , William quoted someone who said:

>  Well, it is time someone explained the right's fear of Bill Clinton. For
> > if any of us hate Bill Clinton -- and certainly we shouldn't hate
> > anyone, as the Bible says -- it is fear, at bottom, that inspires us.
> > This is not a proud acknowledgement, but an honest one. Some of us
> > really do fear Clinton. We experience his term in office as a dangerous
> > time, as a time in which American institutions are exposed to corruption
> > and degradation. It is a time when freedom is imperiled at home and
> > national security is weakened abroad.

Left? Liberal? It should be apparent by now  that Bill is merely the opening act for 
the
main attraction which is coming to this nation-- An "entre acte"  kind of thing or
intermission or a distraction, designed to pave the way for George2.

I can't imagine that anyone who could really be called "left" or "liberal" would have a
ghost of a chance in these times when even dead center is considered radically,
dangerously "left."



First Reagan, then Bush, then Clinton, then Bush--and who is that little man behind
the curtain making the calls and pushing the buttons?
sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] One E. Coli on the Rocks

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 10 Sep 99, , Das wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> 1 Dead, 500 Sick in E.coli Outbreak
>
> By JESSE J. HOLLAND
> .c The Associated Press
>
>
> ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - Nearly 500 people have been sickened and one child died
> in the largest E. coli outbreak in state history - and possibly one of the
> worst nationally - health officials said Thursday.
>
> The outbreak of the deadly bacteria at the Washington County Fair, about 35
> miles north of Albany, was likely caused by the contamination of the fair's
> water.

This is my neighborhood. Fortunately, I didn't go to the fair, but was planning to go 
to a
wonderful Arts and Crafts Fair that is held on the fairgrounds annually and was
scheduled for this weekend. That's been cancelled or moved to another location.

Seems to me the "secondary infection" is rather new, that the bacteria can be
transferred from one person to another by touch, not by eating something???


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Waco and the Press

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 16 Sep 99, , Sean wrote:

> Here's Ted Koppel, the
> night of September l, discussing the siezure by federal marshals of tapes
> of FBI hostage "negotiators", discussing the use of pyrotechnic grenades
> the morning of the Waco raid: "... the credibility of the FBI, which
> probably did tell the truth about most of what happened, that credibility
> is badly damaged, while the credibility of conspiracy theorists, who tend
> to be wrong about most of what they've spun together about Waco, their
> credibility is newly enhanced. It is on these two fronts that the greatest
> damage has been done."

It's so absolutely creepy--this business you pinpoint here. There's a part of me that
wants to believe that our media and journalists are good guys, out there going after 
the
truthnot merely government stooges corrupted by the bucks. Which they clearly are.

Also, of course, if you do watch the news, you are made aware that you live in a 
totally
schizophrenic reality--split between what the media tells you and what is really going
on...even if the "truth" may sometimes be somewhere inbetween.

The scariest thing about Hurricane Floyd is the massive evacuation. And the way it
was going, it looked like the mass of those folks in cars could get caught on the road
by the stormnot exactly a very safe place to be. I mean, all those folks from 
Florida
headed North toward the Carolinas where the brunt of the storm was going to hit?

This newest mad shooter in a Baptist church--if it is not a "lone nut gunman"--seems
calculated to make people fearful of any type of congregationin school, in church, 
in
day camp, at the mall, at the supermarket, on the freeway--you name it. Going out of
your house can get you killed...Being with other people in any sort of group situation
will more and more be experienced as a threat. And many will become more and more
isolated thanks to fear. A nation of agoraphobics?

I wonder what the majority of the US population thinks about the news media? After
all, the GOP and moneyed elite who is paying for and  creating this dog and pony
show is a very small percent of the total population. It would be interesting to think 
that
we are a nation of "conspiracy nuts."




sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Murdered white Christian kids not newsworthy

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 16 Sep 99, , day wrote:

> It's a sad day in this country when the murder of
> white Christian's isn't newsworthy.

Who said it isn't newsworthy. You heard it on the news, didn't you?
Are you complaining because it should have come before the hurricane?

Actually, the majority of Americans are probably members of some Xtian group or
sect, so you could say that Hurrican Floyd threatened the lives of millions of Xtians,
making it, at the moment, a little more "newsworthy."

The idea that Christians are threatened in America seems a little silly and hysterical 
to
me. If Christians choose to go out into hostile territories --like China or Papua New
Guinea --determined to convert the natives, then they shouldn't be very surprised if
they meet with hostility.


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] The glorious capitalist free market economic system.

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 16 Sep 99, , Das wrote:

> Meanwhile, spare the "unjustly" privileged rich and powerful all your
> insignificant and irrelevant criticism -- your whining, complaining, and
> other vocalized "mental" noises echoing in your effectless unreality,
> defined only by an ABSENCE of human BE-ING.
>
> "Shit or get off the pot."  Flatulence alone CANNOT move mountains.  Find
> yourself a shovel.  That's a START, at least.  The world won't budge until
> you finally get off your ass and sweat real sweat ...  And if even THAT is
> still "too much" for you --excuses, excuses!-- DON'T complain if the
> shovel in SOMEONE ELSE's hand is used AGAINST you, as a WEAPON, whacking
> you on your damned fool head.  You're just in the way.

Could you give us some specific examples of what you suggest folks can do against
global corporationalists besides whine. Perhaps some examples of what you,
specifically, are doing would be helpful.

Supporting causes or individuals who espouse causes that might stem the tide does
not seem to be having a lot of impact.

Are you suggesting armed revolt? mass suicide?

Frankly, I'm a little surprised at this coming from you. In part, it sounds a bit like
Adolph's view of  Germany's Jews.




sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation (Rant)

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

Sorry if this is sort of a riff off your rant, Goat, but I do get your point.

I have just had two rather odd experiences.

1.The advent of Floyd in upstate New York turned off the power in my very local
upstate NY neighborhood for almost 24 hours. (Not the whole town but the block where
I live and a few blocks to the west of me.) It went out at 8:30 p.m. and didn't come on
again until around 4 the next afternoon. When I went looking for info, folks told me 
that
there were lots of power lines down. But when I went out walking, I didn't see a single
onenot even where big trees were down.

In the NW corner of my house there is a sort of rumble that sounds like a motor
running. It has a vibration to it, so if you plug your ears, you can still hear/feel 
it. Over
the past year, I have experimented with turning off the furnace, the water heater, the
fridge, gone down into the basement at 3 in the morning looking for the source of this
noise, but have never found it. (Actually, it is least noticeable in the basement.)
Curiously, with ALL the power off, this noise/vibration was still there. Someone who
was working at my house heard it also.  What would you do if you had this
noise/vibration in your house?

2.When I got up on Saturday morning, I noticed that there were a lot of cars parked in
front of the Episcopal church across the street from me. At first I thought it might 
be a
funeral or perhaps a wedding rehearsal, since there are very rarely cars on Saturday--
but Always on Sunday. Late in the morning, the people came out of the church, and
guess who they were? The local public highschool football team--in uniform! All those
cars full of teenagers looked so serious and determined as the zoomed off towards the
playing fields. Does this mean that the public school football team attends pregame
prayer meetings. That the public highschool is playing football for Jesus?  Is this
kosher?


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
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Re: [CTRL] Deafening Silence

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 17 Sep 99, , [to:] wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> AMERICA: SOME CRIMES MORE HATEFUL THAN OTHERS
>
> Chicago Tribune
> By Kass
>
> August 31, 1999
>
> An ugly racial incident happened in Chicago's Bridgeport neighborhood over
> the weekend.
>
> But strangely, black ministers and political activists are holding no angry
> news conferences. There is no mayoral campaign, so City Hall isn't publicly
> calling on the president or the county state's attorney for justice. The
> word is out in Bridgeport for the people to shut their mouths.
>
> And official Chicago wants this one to go away.
>
> Roy Trumblay, 55, and his daughter, Christine, 22, were walking on 35th
> Street toward Comiskey Park on Saturday, to watch the White Sox.
>
> Roy also had two grandchildren, a boy, 8, and a 10-year-old girl, and other
> family members with him. As they passed the Deering District police station,
> with dozens of other fans, a man jumped out of a car, police said.
>
> He was clutching a wooden table leg, with a chunk of metal on the end. Roy
> and Christine didn't know the man with the table leg. But he picked them out
> anyway, on that crowded street.
>
> When he was finished, father and daughter were crumpled on the pavement.
> Their skulls were crushed open.

This is how it was done in Bosniaone little neighborhood at a timeturning one
group against the other untilPhwp!!! you have a blazing conflagration. And  you
can justify it, too, by pointing out how ancient the resentments are, how deep they 
run.
Just bound to erupt in tribal/ethnic/ racial/ religious hatred, donchaknow.

When different groups can't cooperate and can't live side by side, you can say
goodbye to civilization, hello to savagery.

sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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Re: [CTRL] It will happen, if WE MAKE IT HAPPEN!! [otherwise an AgeOfD

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 21 Sep 99, , Bard wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Dear Linda,
> He's the son of a different clan, but he's Scotch-Irish to the bone
> and a true American, so I think he's as close to a modern day William
> Wallace as we're ever going to get.
> Of course, I'm talking about Pat Buchanan.
> Thanks to Pat's courage in abandoning a Republican Party that no longer even
> pretends to represent him or us, here's what we could see sometime in
> January, 2001 -- and all it will take is a Golden 35% of the electorate
> voting for Pat:
> The President of the United States, Patrick J. Buchanan!!!

The idea is chilling to me. I mean, hey, I like it that he's against NAFTA and GATT and
all that, but his attitudes towards people, his blatant racism and anti-Semitism, make
his candidacy a pretty terrifying prospect to me. Don't we have someone who's against
all the bad stuffand for some of the good stuff, too?
sno0wl

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==
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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Louisiana high school tags students

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 22 Sep 99, , Kathleen wrote:

> On a campus such as ours that is fairly open from all
> sides, we want to be able to identify our students. It would be very
> possible for students (from other schools) to come on campus and get among
> our students, and we would not be able to identify them until some time
> later. But with the badge, at a glance, we can see if they are ours or if
> they are not ours."

Privacy issues aside, it seems to me that anyone who was serious about getting onto
the "campus" could find a way to come up with a badge. Just as those who are
determined can find ways to get illegal weapons. There's really no way to lock up the
henhouse...unless, of course, all the places where people work, study, and gather are
fortified--like prisons, with every single person checked at the sentry gate, coming 
and
going. And even then




sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] USGS Earthquake report

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 21 Sep 99, , USGS wrote:

> Magnitude 7.6 earthquake near TAIWAN
> 23.81N, 121.00E  depth 33.0km  Mon Sep 20 17:47:18 1999 GMT
>
> An earthquake has occurred.  Following is information provided
> by the National Earthquake Information Service of the USGS.
> This information is preliminary and subject to correction.
>
> Time: GMT Mon Sep 20 17:47:18 1999
>  (EDT Mon Sep 20 13:47:18 1999)
>  (PDT Mon Sep 20 10:47:18 1999)
>
> Magnitude: 7.6, determined using its moment
> Epicenter: 23.81N, 121.00E (TAIWAN)
> Precision: A, where A is fine and D is coarse.
> Depth of focus:  33.0km below sea level at the epicenter.
>
> Note that the depth of focus is given as 33.0km, indicating
> that the depth was known to be shallow but could not be determined
> precisely.
>
> For a map showing this event, please consult the web page
>   <http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/990920174718.HTML>
>
> Further info can be obtained from the USGS National Earthquake
> Information Center at <http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/>
> or the USGS home page at <http://www.usgs.gov/>

Well, it looks like they have solved the Taiwan problem, one way or another.
This particular 7.6 is, I think, merely an "aftershock."



sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Business trumps human rights.

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 11 Nov 99, at 10:58, Kathleen wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
>  http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/9945/hentoff.shtml
>
>
> Published November 10 - 16, 1999
>
> Time Inc. editor in chief Norman Pearlstine: Business trumps
> human rights.
> (photo: Marina Garnier)
>
> NAT HENTOFF
> Time Warner and Human Rights
>
> Press Lords Bow to a Torturer
> he Committee To Protect Journalists is the most valuable of all
> press organizations because it goes beyond First Amendment
> rights here at home to safeguard the right of all journalists in the
> world to be protected from governments that imprison, torture, and
> sometimes murder reporters who tell the awful truth. On November
> 23, in the Grand Ballroom of the Waldorf-Astoria, the Committee To
> Protect Journalists will hold its Ninth Annual International Press
> Freedom Awards Dinner-for the benefit of the committee.
> Chairman of the event is Norman Pearlstine, editor in chief of Time

I think that the US policy towards and with China--starting with
Nixon and proceding through the Reagan and Bush presidencies
and on into the Clinton administratiion-- is full of intrigue and
secrecy and contains elements that have never been made public.
I think none of us has any idea just what our relationship to or our
"agreements" with the Chinese really are. This is made particularly
clear by the West Coast negotiations with the Chinese for port
bases and the situation in Panama...which, to anyone thinking with
mere logic, seem completely nuts.


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] The Origins of the Illuminati

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 14 Nov 99, at 17:02, Rodrigo Cesar Banhara wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> The Origins of the Illuminati
>
> Not much has been said about the origins of the Illuminati. Some researchers
> trace the origins back to the Bavarian Illuminati in the 1700's, but this
> secret organization goes way back.
>
> The Illuminati can be traced back at least 4000 years, but the first Order
> wasn't fully established until the Babylonian era, around 1000 B.C. So around
> 4000 years ago the original Brotherhood was infiltratedHowever, the plans were
> made already during the Sumerian era, in Mesopotamia, which is the land
> between the rivers Tigris and Euphrates (Iraq), under the reign of King
> Ur-Nammu. This was during the Third Dynasty of Ur, around 2112-2004 B.C.

Something seems out of whack here. To begin with there is actual
archeological evidence of an elaborate burial of a SumerianQueen
and her court and some very famous Sumerian artefacts which
date to circa 2500 B.C.--which would coincide with the end of the
Babylonian era--Ur was much, much earlier. Followed by Sumeria,
followed by Babylon.

Secondly, the White Brotherhood, as it is presently concieved via
Blavatsky et al., and the Theosophists, is Indo-European. The
people of Babylon and Ur were Semitic peoples. The Indo-
Europeans came from the North--from Scythia and other  regions.
Actually they came to Sumer and Ur as barbarian invaders from the
North and East and, although they were conquerors, were
assimilated into the Sumerian culture--which was the higher culture
at the time. The "Aryans" were originally an Indo-European peoples-
-although they were later redefined and/or confused with the
peoples of Scandinavia and the northern Germanic Teutonic tribes.
There would seem to be some further confusion since this White
Brotherhood has its headquarters in Tibetwhich would seem to
make them Asiatic. However Tibet has the distinction of being the
northernmost location and possessed of the loftiest and most
unpassable mountains. Which would serve the purpose of making
this White Brotherhood the most secretive and inaccessible. So
who knows what their racial origins are.





sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Mythic Language

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 15 Nov 99, at 13:15, Andrew Hennessey wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> hi,
>
> a Unifying Theory of Linguistics - ie. language from ONE COMMON ROOT
> was proposed by a Dane called Stevenson who wrote a treatise on Phoenetics
> in the
> 19TH CENTURY.
> Using his system of phoenetics - the 'this word sounds like this word in
> this other language' idea - his system could be used to translate ancient
> scripts AND modern languages.
> This work - which was scoffed by the experts of the day and is still
> ignored, unheard of and buried, lies in the UNIVERSITY OF EDINBURGH LIBRARY
> in Scotland.
>
> please forward to those interested on the Thoth list.
> I would also suggest that we email the edinburgh university library to
> obtain copies of this very important thesis.
>
> The source of this information is a researcher for film, tv and the
> discovery channel and is also responsible for Rosslyn relics and the
> finding of the King Charles royal treasure in the river forth by Edinburgh.

There is a two volume set called A Book of the Beginnings which
explores the origin of languages and hypothesizes that those who
eventually settled in Egypt  and built the pyramids first lived in the
British Isles.

A Book of the Beginnings, University Press, 1974 (from original
publication at the turn of the century) by Gerald Massey
ISBN 0-8216-0211-X

It is an exhaustive study of language, symbols and mythology. I
read it in midnight frenzies some 20 years ago and don't remember
much of it nowexcept that at the time I couldn't put it down.


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Who they are.

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 14 Nov 99, at 22:33, Nurev Ind Research wrote:

> I know who " they " are. Probably better than anyone on this list. Some of
> " them " are listed by Coleman. It's his paranoid racist interpretation of
> SOME of the raw material that has made his book worthless.

Would you expand on this a bit and "illuminate" the rest of us.


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] What Has the New World Order Done for Us Already?

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 14 Nov 99, at 14:52, JAH Publications wrote:

> The Elders of the
> > New World  Order have  decreed that  Israel, with the help of the
> > United States,  must divide  and destroy  the  nations  of  Islam
> > before they have enough time to recover from the Crusades.

I think you have it backwards. The United States USES Israel to
keep its position in the MiddleEast. If the United States did not find
Israel useful, you can bet your booties, it would not exist.In fact,
you could even say that the US uses Israel as its scapegoat and
whipping boy.
sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] (Drug)War, Mike Ruppert GPW2000 support letter

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 17 Nov 99, at 14:49, JAH Publications wrote:

> WHY PEOPLE REALLY TAKE DRUGS
>
>
> A few "pleasant" effects of some drugs:
>
>
> ALCOHOL - makes most of us "happy", initially, and creates the
> illusion of general friendship; others can be aggressive.
>
> TOBACCO - calms nerves by relieving the craving it has created.
>
> VALIUMS - remove (numb) the pain and revulsion at the world that we
> have created.
>
> AMPHETAMINES - give us energy and intensity of thought.
>
> CANNABIS - provokes short-term "peace of mind"; relaxation
> and thought.
>
> ECSTASY - provokes emotion that people think is joy and love.
>
> L.S.D. - causes pleasure and a magnified appreciation of the awesome
> immensity of reality.

I HEROIN - creates a "shield" or "bubble" that protects one from the
> "outside world vibes".

nteresting--this is the part about drugs that NO ONE talks about--
the part about pleasure and relief.

Imagine Nancy Regan telling the whole world--and especially all the
young people to just say NO to pleasure and relief.

And yes, Jah or whoever, I think you are quite right about this.
sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] DRUDGE: Clinton Y2K Bunker / NBC Y2K Scare Film

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 17 Nov 99, at 10:24, Mack White wrote:

> XXX DRUDGE REPORT X SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 13, 1999 18:01:22 ET X
>
> NBC'S Y2K SCARE MOVIE SET FOR AIR; NETWORK PRESS RELEASES BLUR NEWS
> AND ENTERTAINMENT
>
> Anticipation is building for NBC's upcoming Y2K scare movie, now set
> to run during a sweet November Sweeps spot.
>
> The fuss film, set to air on November 21, has been criticized for
> exploiting and cashing in on the nation's Y2K fears.
>
> Last month a lawmaker on the Senate Special Committee on the Year 2000
> Technology Problem blasted the project: "This is one of the most
> irresponsible things to ever come out of Hollywood! Why is NBC doing
> this? There are going to end up scaring people into a complete panic.
> Shame, shame, shame on them!"

As any enterprising journalist, publisher, or marketeer knows (Mr.
Drudge???) fear and sex sell. Not sure which sells more but I
suspect it's fear.




sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Fw: Visit the Hunger Site

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 17 Nov 99, at 23:15, Rory Winter wrote:

>. The Washington Post (USA) - "Think of all the time you spend
>   clicking aimlessly or fruitlessly around the Web. At the Hunger
>   Site, one click actually accomplishes something: It sends a
>   serving of food to a starving person, at no cost to you.
>   Corporate sponsors provide the food in exchange for free
>   advertisement and links. Since its June 1 start-up, the site has
>   sent enough money to the United Nations' World Food Program to
>   purchase more than 4 million servings of dietary staples; a WFP
>   official calls it 'an extraordinary testimony to the power of
>   the Internet.' The privacy-protected site is run without profit
>   by John Breen, an Indiana software programmer who initially
>   wanted to support Third World education but decided hunger was
>   the priority. As his world map arrestingly illustrates,
>   starvation kills 24,000 people daily, most of them children."
>
>   http://www.thehungersite.com/

I have my "favorites" set up so the site is grouped with my
"personal pages" and try to go there once a day and give it a click.


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Military Assault On Times Square New Years Eve 1999?

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 18 Nov 99, at 13:37, earthman wrote:

> Military Assault On Times Square New Years Eve 1999?
>
> Download this video of a military(?) officer explaining to his troups
> how to participate in a massacre that will occur in Times Square at
> midnight 12/31/99 as well as other cities around the world.


That's the NWO for you--party poopers!!




sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] The Real "Aliens" Among Us [repost]

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 18 Nov 99, at 6:29, Das GOAT wrote:

> When Corporations Rule the World,"
> by David C. Korten, Kumarian and B-K Press, $29.95
>
> ... For some years now I've felt that to have an overview from which
> we can change things, we must realize that our central problem is that
> the planet has been taken over by a different, larger and more
> dominant species, called CORPORATIONS.

Some many months ago, I heard David Korten speak on NPR at
the National Press Club (?) and I thought he was one of the most
interesting speakers I had heard in a very long time. He not only
had an insightful critique but some positive suggestions to offer
regarding remedy and change.




sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] "British Medical Journal" on Homeopathy

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 20 Nov 99, at 18:11, William Shannon wrote:

> << It is well known that many homoeopathic medicines are
> ultramolecularthat is,
>  they are diluted to such a degree that not even a single molecule of
>  the original solute is likely to be present. As drug actions are
>  conventionally understood in biochemical terms, homoeopathy presents
>  an enormous intellectual challenge, if not a complete impasse. Many
>  scientists have suggested that the clinical effects of homoeopathic
>  medicines are solely due to the placebo effect. >>
>
> Purely placebo effect. Quackery at it's finest...but there's a sucker
> born every minute so this bollocks will persist. For shame, for shame.


Gee Bill,
I woke up this morning all stuffed up--nose, throat, yuck. Took 5
little round thingeys of Kali Bichromium and...Bingo!!in ten
minutes it was all gone.

I don't mind being called a suckerbut I just love things that work.

Works for my dogs, too, when they get all those fall allergies from
leaf mold and all thatand they have no idea about placebos. But
they've been called worse things than "sucker" so it's okay by me.

You'd be happier if I went to a vet ($35) and got a prescription ($25).
Or a doctor ($135) and got a prescription ($40)?
The Kali Bichromium cost me $4.95. I may be a sucker, but I'm not
a sucker with a stuffed up running nose and a chest cold.








sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Cairo angered by US 'whitewash' to save Boeing

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 20 Nov 99, at 9:58, Prudence L. Kuhn wrote:

> But on the other hand, if this is a cover-up to save Boeing's
> corporate
>  ass, then I am very glad this is happening. Egypt is too important to
>  US foreign policy to lose.
>
>  If Batouty didn't crash the plane, and I believe that he didn't, then
>  pinning the crash on THIS dead man may turn out to be a big mistake.
>  >>
>
> Yes, Joshua, of course.  Prudy

Well, since they seem to have ruled out mechanical failure, I'm not
sure what Boeing has to do with it at all. Now protecting the US
military, who may have been "exercising" or  "excorsing" the area,
is a whole other kettle of fish.

Curiously, last night NBC aired Goldeneye--the James Bond thriller
about the electromagnetic pulse weapon. It's an oldey but kind of
confirms its existence. What was even more curious was that it
wasn't on any of my TV schedules.
sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Cairo angered by US 'whitewash' to save Boeing

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 22 Nov 99, at 7:06, YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> On Sun, 21 Nov 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >Curiously, last night NBC aired Goldeneye--the James Bond thriller
> >about the electromagnetic pulse weapon. It's an oldey but kind of
> >confirms its existence. What was even more curious was that it wasn't
> >on any of my TV schedules.
>
> And to add to the curiosity factor, wasn't a thriller based on Y2K the
> movie that WAS scheduled?  Did NBC black out the Y2K movie in all
> markets, or just a few...?

No, Goldeneye appeared on Saturday. Y2K was on Sunday nite.
sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Y2K Movie Tonight

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 22 Nov 99, at 13:35, Tenorlove wrote:

>  The movie, Y2K was aired by NBC in the Rhode Island area but I
> > understand
> > that some areas of the country may not have.  That NBC may have
> > substituted another movie instead.
>
> Would that WE were so lucky!

The only thing that struck me was that the one person in the whole
movie who got hurt was the guy who refused tp evacuate. Do you
think there's a message there?
sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] The "BOOK"

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 23 Nov 99, at 9:36, Prudence L. Kuhn wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 11/23/1999 7:55:50 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Fortunate Son, the ill-fated biography of Gov. George W. Bush, was
>  recalled for burning by the publisher, a decision that remarkably
>  drew applause from the national news media. Indeed, the only visible
>  media complaint was that the critical biography was written in the
>  first place. >>
>
> In addition to the rush to burn the book, another oddity--St Martin's
> Press (the book's publisher which is stoking the furnace) is a
> division of Holzbrinck GmBH, the German Publishing House.  Considering
> all the material I've read about the Bush family connections with
> Germany, Nazi and otherwise, perhaps they lit the bonfire as a
> personal favor.  Prudy

H... I didn't know that Prudy. What with Bertlelsmann
owning Bantam, Doubleday, Dell  (and Random House?) I'm
beginning to wonder how much of major American publishing is
now German owned.


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] FW: Independent Media Center at WTO

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 24 Nov 99, at 4:58, Dave wrote:

>  www.indymedia.org.

I tried to go to this site and was told it was "forbidden"!
sno0wl

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[CTRL]

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-


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Om

[CTRL] Let's hear it foi Rudy Guiliani

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

Many people seem to think of New York as a scary town. As a native-born
Manhattanite, I've never really found it that scarey, considering how many millions of
people live there. However, a recent event really made my hair stand on end.

I don't have the exact details, but it seems that in the early hours of one morning a
week or two ago, a group of six armed police broke into the apartment of a man on
NY's Upper East Side, woke him at gunpoint, dragged him out of his building in
handcuffs and shackles and hauled him off to jail.

His crime? His little dog--looked something like a cute little Shitzuh (a little tiny 
dog)--
didn't have a license.

This man had been ticketed and had failed to appear at a court hearing for having an
unlicensed dog. Can you imagine?

The story made the front pages of the Daily News.

That, and the fact that you can now get a $200 ticket for getting caught in a traffic
intersection (causing gridlock) have made NYC a very scarey town. Let's hear it for
Rudy Guiliani.
sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] CAMELOT KILLINGS - The Murder of JFK Jr. and the Sisters Bi7

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 8 Aug 99, , Kris wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> from alt.conspiracy
> -
> As always, Caveat Lector.
> Om
> K
> -
> CAMELOT KILLINGS - The Murder
> of JFK Jr. and the Sisters Bissette
> -
> Subject: CAMELOT KILLINGS - The Murder of JFK Jr. and the Sisters Bissette
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (GroomWatch)
> Date: Fri, 06 August 1999 02:49 AM EDT
> Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> "CAMELOT KILLINGS"   The Murder of JFK Jr. and the Sisters Bissette
>
> by Anthony J. Hilder
>
>  The Kennedy killing reeks with the stench of murder.  The smell of
> disinformation and misinformation laced with outright lies concerning the JFK
> crash rises from the "managed media" as if from a cauldron of crap.  Thousands
> of hours of hyperbole, stock footage of young Kennedy as a boy in Camelot,
> quotes of his murdered father, of Jackie Onassis, footage from the Kennedy
> compound, puff stories showing Junior's human side, and hours of the faithful
> dropping off flowers outside of his New York apartment inundated the airwaves
> -
> but not so much as a moment of time was devoted to airing "the truth" as to
> how
> the Prince of Camelot came to meet the Grim Reaper.

If JFK, Jr. was the victim of foul play--as many postings here seem to strongly 
support--
it is interesting to speculate on what kind of pressure could be brought to bear on the
remaining Kennedys and the Bissettes so that they would make not so much as a
peep about it.

The lack of noise from the larger public seems to imply a sort of exhaustion--which is
what the whole Clinton/:Lewinsky scandal and impeachment accomplished. That
exhaustion would seem to extend to interest in Bush's cocaine use (which certainly is,
at the very least, a case of double standards since Clinton's youthful indiscretions 
have
been done to death.).

Whatever has happened or whatever is going on, it does seem that anyone with major
public clout who has won public sympathy through a show of  genuine "humanity" and
"compassion"  has been very publiclly snuffed.



sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] FW: Homeopathy

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 3 Sep 99, , William wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Homeopathy: The Ultimate Fake
> Stephen Barrett, M.D.
> Homeopathic "remedies" enjoy a unique status in the health marketplace: They
> are the only category of quack products legally marketable as drugs. This
> situation is the result of two circumstances. First, the 1938 Federal Food,
> Drug, and Cosmetic Act, which was shepherded through Congress by a
> homeopathic physician who was a senator, recognizes as drugs all substances
> included in the Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States. Second, the
> FDA has not held homeopathic products to the same standards as other drugs.
> Today they are marketed in health-food stores, in pharmacies, in practitioner
> offices, by multilevel distributors [A], through the mail, and on the
> Internet.

I really don't want to poke my nose into your debate, but when you find the right
homeopathic remedy for a symptom, it seems to work right away. I have found
homeopathic remedies exceedingly helpful for both myself and my pets. And I really
have no idea why they should work--but it appears to me, pragmatically, that they do,
when other more "traditional" alternatives" have failed me.

So far, I have used homeopathic remedies successfully for arthritic-like conditons,
colds, flues, and allergies and have found them remarkably effective. You do have to
experiment because they don't work until you find the "right" remedy. Then it works
almost instantly to relieve the conditon. My pharmacist is Indian, and while he spends
all day filling medical prescriptions, he carries a full line of herbal and homeopathic
remedies. For which I am very grateful.

I can't really argue with something that works. And no--I am not anti-science, although
I do believe the medical establishment is more involved with its own egos and profits
than with actually healing folks.

Latest word on the cutting edge--HIV has little or nothing to do with AIDS. It's HHV-6,
related to the herpes virus, which most of us carry, and which is usually dormant
within our systems, that is doing the real damage. HHV-6 is suspected of being the
active agent in MS and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome too. Virologists who are working on
this theory have been fighting the AIDS establishment for years to have their case
heard--while folks keep on dying. As Vonnegut said so pithily: So it goes.






sno0wl

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==
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Re: [CTRL] When GPS meets cell phones

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 3 Sep 99, , Kris wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> from:
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/306775.asp
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/306775.asp">When GPS meets cell phones
> -
> When GPS meets cell phonesPolice will know exactly where those 911 calls
> are made,
> and a host of other fun services will followBy Bob Sullivan
> MSNBC
> Sept. 1 — Shalene Wilson was in big trouble. Two men had overpowered
> her, stabbed her, thrown her in a car trunk and driven away. But in a
> stroke of what might seem like amazing luck, they did not realize she
> had a mobile phone. She called local police in Albany, Ore., begging for
> help — but they were helpless. In this case, 911 proved just about
> useless: The police had no idea where Wilson was calling from, and
> neither did she. They spent the better part of the next 24 hours
> searching in vain, combing the town block by block while precious time
> ticked away. A new technology which would have told police precisely
> where Wilson was hadn’t arrived in time to help.

Several years ago, Dean Koontz wrote a novel where the hero is tracked by GPS by
through the deserts of the SW by the evil gummint that wants to stop him.
"Dark Rivers of the Heart"?

sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] The Bomb that gave Clinton victory

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 4 Sep 99, , Bill wrote:

> These are not idle questions.  A family that lost two children in
>  the day-care center has accused the Justice Department of a
>  cover-up.  After conducting their own private investigation for
>  the past 18 months Glenn and Cathy Wilburn have amassed evidence
>  suggesting that the government had prior knowledge of the bombing
>  -- and negligently failed to stop it...
>
>  The Wilburns, and their daughter Eyde Smith, have now taken their
>  case to the Oklahoma courts.  In a civil lawsuit they have named
>  two men -- Michael Brescia and a former German army officer,
>  Andreas Strassmeir -- as alleged accomplices of McVeigh.  They have
>  accused the Justice Department of failing to pursue all the
>  conspirators because one or more of them were federal informants
>  who had penetrated the bombing ring.

I think in the time that has since elapsed, the Wilburns either dropped or were
unsuccessful with their suit. I seem to remember them making "excuses" which
suggested that they were overwhelmed or pressured and, finding they could make no
headway, decided they had to "get on with their lives."

I believe that the two men mentioned above were connected to the same
"white supremacist" group that Buford Fowler--the LA Jewish Center shooter--was
traced to.

My memory could be faulty but my attention was flagged and it seemed to me that
there was a link here that someone could follow.



sno0wl

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==
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] Truth From Feds Is Hard to Find [Waco]

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 3 Sep 99, , Bard wrote:

> ruth From Feds Is Hard to Find
>
> --
> --  By Jennifer G. Hickey
> --
> -- 
>
> After years of denials, the FBI has said it used flammable tear gas during
> the siege of the Branch Davidian compound. What does that say about
> government by the people, for the people?

The Cover-Up Game is actually a stall tactic. If you can delay an investigation for 
10-50
years, then drag it through panels, studies, commissions, and courts for another quartr
of a century, all the leading players will be either retired, doddering, or dead--and 
thus
have attained their objective. The deed is done and the perpetrators get off scott 
free.
Furthermore, all those who were affected or who cared passionately about the matter
will also be dead, retired, or past caring and the general public of that future time 
will
only take note of an interesting historical curiosity. That's modern justice for ya.






sno0wl

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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] 3rd World Disease In New York. Malathion To Be Sprayed.

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 4 Sep 99, , William wrote:

> Helicopters filled with Malathion, described as a "quite safe"
> insecticide, began spraying sections of College Point, Whitestone and
> Auburndale for two hours from 6:45 p.m.
>
Malathion is pretty deadly, totally toxic stuff. I think they gave major public 
warnings
and even did some evacuations when they used it in California. Do they still use it in
California? .



sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Fw: Should we trust the government?

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

YOU GO, GIRL  (A little mutual admiration never hurts :))  )


On 4 Sep 99, , Prudence wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 09/02/1999 7:02:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << > In the face of this unprecedented attack on American citizens by
>  > agents of their own government, a deadly assault that sparked the
>  > militia movement as well as the bombing of the Federal Building in
>  > Oklahoma City, an unprecedented silence befell the press. “No one
>  > stepped forward to be the Davidians’ friend,” writes Richard Shweder,
>  > author of “Thinking Through Cultures,” in the New York Times. “The
>  > Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms spent months planning and
>  > rehearsing the largest ‘law enforcement’ operation of its 200-year
>  > history. This turned out to be a major military operation, worthy of a
>  > police state, carried out against the domestic residence of an
>  > unpopular and readily stigmatized religious community. The ACLU does
>  > not like guns, and it’s very busy, so it didn’t get involved. The
>  > religious leaders of our country do not like ‘cults,’ and the women’s
>  > movement does not like patriarchal living arrangements, so they didn’t
>  > much care. And no one wanted to seem sympathetic to ‘child abuse’ or
>  > unsympathetic to the FBI.” >>
>
> I don't know anyone who "trusts" the Government.  Trust is not important
> here.  And will you people quit baying about IMPEACHMENT.  Just what good
> does or would it do?  I'm so tired of all this basically partisan nonsense.
> Janet Reno is not fully to blame for WACO or Ruby Ridge and neither is
> Clinton.  Our nation's entire police and intelligence systems have evolved
> into a league of crazed gestapo-types, and you think impeachment would have
> an affect on that?  We have problems in this town, which is barely a hundred
> thousand.  Police officers are required who are not "too intelligent."  God
> forbid that we place authority and arms in the hands of anyone who has a high
> IQ.  The police in New York City and most other major cities are treating the
> citizens who pay their wages as a cross between preferred targets and marks
> (an old Carney term), and you want to impeach the president?  There is a lot
> here that needs to be done.  Why do our national agencies that are supposed
> to be protecting us and our interests behave like badly trained television
> swat teams?  What happened to bravery and brains?  What happeded to the low
> key and very effective presence that used to be law enforcement?  Police were
> always present, but they didn't feel obligated to shoot or beat up every
> citizen who bumped into them.   Why do they now?  There's a lot that needs to
> be done here, and I suggest that citizens start finding a way that they can
> be saved from the police and federal agencies which now seem only to be
> looking for excuses to abuse them.  It has nothing to do with Clinton or
> Reno.  It didn't start with Clinton's administration, and it won't stop with
> a Republican in the White House either.  Remember all that "LAW AND ORDER"
> you wanted?  Well to carefully recruited, not too smart folks who are now
> serving as our nation's finest.  That means, lock and load and go get em'
> Prudy
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
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> Om
>


sno0wl

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==
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screeds are not allowe

Re: [CTRL] What really is NLP?

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 4 Sep 99, , Jean wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> According to a friend of mine who studied NLP, with an eye to setting up a
> practice, it was devised by the CIA as a means of "interrogation".
> Neurolinguistic Programming is a variant on mind control techniques in that
> it installs "alters" to carry out certain tasks and "anchors" or trigger
> words to evoke certain programmed behavior. It was first used in the private
> sector to enable salesmen to determine their customers' archilles heels.
> NLP is a nasty, mind-messing bit of business that began and remains in the
> very worst hands. Gregory Bateson did the seminal work on the NLP process.

>From time immemorial there have been books and systems that advance the idea that
you can "Win Friends and Influence People," Seduce the Man/Woman of Your
Dreams, Exercise Control Over Others and Get Your Way (And A Lot of Money, too.)
etc.  NLP has always been sold as one of these methods to "give you control over
your life (and others). It is a system of mind control, but then so is yoga and every
other system of Self Control. NLP may be a little more manipulative--but I don't think 
it
has ever pretended to be anything else.

What is the difference between Mind Control--where you are surreptitiously controlled
by someone else.and Self Control--where you control yourself and try to influence
others to do your bidding and do it Your Way? Every salesman uses this kind of Mind
Control. Many people are naturally talented in manipulation of others. Sometimes we
say they have "charisma."  The ability to manipulate and "influence" others is 
certainly
an element in creating what we define as "success" in America. I think you have to
draw the line somewhere. Certainly NLP is blatantly manipulatuve, but is NLP really
that sinister?


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] (Fwd) [FAIR-L] ALERT: U.S. Role Missing From East Timor

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 6 Sep 99, , Prudence wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 09/06/1999 4:24:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << For example, in reports from East Timor's capital, the Associated Press
>  and some other news outlets continue to use the dateline "Dili,
>  Indonesia," implying that Indonesia has a legitimate claim over East
>  Timor. This formulation is comparable to a dateline of "Kuwait City, Iraq"
>  in the months following Iraq's illegal annexation of Kuwait. The
>  Washington Post (8/31/99) reported that Timorese were voting on "whether
>  to remain a part of Indonesia." >>
>
> According to the television news, the United States has called on Indonesia
> to restore law and order.  We all know how they do that don't we?  If you
> kill off all the folks in East Timor, they can't complain.  Just what our
> Government wants--a peaceful silence.  Maybe this time they can send backhoes
> to dig pits to throw the bodies in.  Peaceful silence is nothing when it
> accompanies the stench of dead bodies.  Prudy

Tonight's news seems particularly disturbing. It's not just East Timor, it seems to be
happening everywhere--Colombia, Brazil, Detroit And wherever it's happening,
wherever people want "independence" or equitable labor laws or any kind of fair
treatment, the "media" seems to be suggesting that the upstarts are Marxist guerillas
or dangerous subversives, liberals or leftists. And everywhere it would seem the US is
supporting the suppressive governments and has trained the paramilitary militias and
the government armies who are controlling these malcontentsand, of course, if you
are an American with a 401k or almost any savings or investments, you are supporting
these suppressive governments and they are contributing to your wellbeing and
comfort...so can you really say that what they're doing is wrong (if they are moving
against the will of their outraged populations to protect American interests?) and you
are profiting from it?

Why do I sense that the net is being pulled in and that whatever it is --that old 
beast--
is slouching closer and closer to home

I even sense that the Waco revelations, which will focus attention once again on
Clinton and Reno--and very rightly so--will deflect criticism from George W. and help
him sweep into the presidency.

I must be depressedis all
sno0wl

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==
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Re: [CTRL] (Fwd) [FAIR-L] ALERT: U.S. Role Missing From EastTimor

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

I'm not watching TV. I'm reading this list.....
sno0wl

On 7 Sep 99, , Bill wrote:

> Unshackle Yourself.  Kill Your TV.
>
> Sno0wl wrote:
> >
> > On 6 Sep 99, , Prudence wrote:
> >
> > >  -Caveat Lector-
> > >
> > > In a message dated 09/06/1999 4:24:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > >
> > > << For example, in reports from East Timor's capital, the Associated Press
> > >  and some other news outlets continue to use the dateline "Dili,
> > >  Indonesia," implying that Indonesia has a legitimate claim over East
> > >  Timor. This formulation is comparable to a dateline of "Kuwait City, Iraq"
> > >  in the months following Iraq's illegal annexation of Kuwait. The
> > >  Washington Post (8/31/99) reported that Timorese were voting on "whether
> > >  to remain a part of Indonesia." >>
> > >
> > > According to the television news, the United States has called on Indonesia
> > > to restore law and order.  We all know how they do that don't we?  If you
> > > kill off all the folks in East Timor, they can't complain.  Just what our
> > > Government wants--a peaceful silence.  Maybe this time they can send backhoes
> > > to dig pits to throw the bodies in.  Peaceful silence is nothing when it
> > > accompanies the stench of dead bodies.  Prudy
> >
> > Tonight's news seems particularly disturbing. It's not just East Timor, it seems 
>to be
> > happening everywhere--Colombia, Brazil, Detroit And wherever it's happening,
> > wherever people want "independence" or equitable labor laws or any kind of fair
> > treatment, the "media" seems to be suggesting that the upstarts are Marxist 
>guerillas
> > or dangerous subversives, liberals or leftists. And everywhere it would seem the 
>US is
> > supporting the suppressive governments and has trained the paramilitary militias 
>and
> > the government armies who are controlling these malcontentsand, of course, if 
>you
> > are an American with a 401k or almost any savings or investments, you are 
>supporting
> > these suppressive governments and they are contributing to your wellbeing and
> > comfort...so can you really say that what they're doing is wrong (if they are 
>moving
> > against the will of their outraged populations to protect American interests?) and 
>you
> > are profiting from it?
> >
> > Why do I sense that the net is being pulled in and that whatever it is --that old 
>beast--
> > is slouching closer and closer to home
> >
> > I even sense that the Waco revelations, which will focus attention once again on
> > Clinton and Reno--and very rightly so--will deflect criticism from George W. and 
>help
> > him sweep into the presidency.
> >
> > I must be depressedis all
> > sno0wl

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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Om

Re: [CTRL] no mind control - was: [CTRL] (no subject)

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 7 Sep 99, , Ric wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Fred Saluga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > I have never been a victim of mind control, but I would be interested
> > in information concerning your organization.
>
> What makes you think this is an organization? Do we LOOK organized?
> How do you know that you've never been subjected to mind control?
> Wouldn't a sophisticated MC program hide itself, deceiving you to
> think that you're NOT controlled?  How do we know that you're not
> an agent of a MC group, sent to infiltrate us?  Why are you really
> seeking information about us?  What's your program?

ROTFLOL Ric, you're hilarious. :))


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] What really is NLP? [reply]

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 7 Sep 99, , Das wrote:

> In the late '60s and early '70s I travelled on the periphery of the inner
> circles out of which came the "New Age," first wave, and I personally
> witnessed --VERY personally, e.g., in private conversations with many of
> the notables, who confided in me as "one of them"-- attitudes and
> behaviors which, if made publicly known then, would have immediately
> resulted in the founders of most "New Age" groups being seen as knowing,
> cold-blooded manipulators of people's belief systems for ego, personal
> power, and for profit above all. As early as 1971, I watched
> "supersalesman" Jack Rosenbaum aka "Werner Erhard" steal most of what he
> claimed to have discovered from Silva Mind Control, Alexander Everett's
> Mind Dynamics, and Scientology and go on to create the first EST seminars;
> I worked with the person whom Erhard himself had early on groomed to be
> his protege, on an alternative (and rival praxis) to EST that would've
> been less cult-like, because it was even by then already recognized as a
> hyped-marketing mindfuck, with most of its members eerily zombie-like,
> classic cult-followers of the type that DEFINED the "New Age" that would
> follow as they wandered on from one "spiritual" movement to another. Back
> then, I kept company not only with ESToids but with Scientologists (not
> much difference in psychology and behavior) -- but with the advantage of
> also knowing L. Ron Hubbard's literary agent, his publisher, his business
> partner from the days of Dianetics (A. E. van Vogt, who wrote a textbook
> on hypnosis), and several of Hubbard's first "Operating Thetans," as well
> as dissatisfied people who had operated in Scientology's "internal
> security" division, the Guardian's office.  As usual, I observed the
> dissonance between three realms: (1) the con-man mentality and motives of
> the founder and his closest allies, (2) the uncritical faith and devotion
> of his students and followers (almost worshipful in a manner deliberately
> promoted by the founder), and then, judgable in a separate category, (3)
> the "system" being taught, always with some merit in and of itself but
> always used primarily as just a platform for developing a profitable
> marketing machine, a pool of cult-followers to serve the founder's
> ego-needs, and an authoritarian social structure that served as a private
> universe totally defined by the founder's needs.

BRAVO!!! Goat.Sounds like we've been in a lot of the same places and have drawn
much the same conclusions.
The downside is the very human need to "belong"--a need that all these groups play on
shamelessly, as do traditional religions-- and once you've found the autonomy and
developed that cynicism about groups that these experiences engenderwell, you
can't be a belonger. In a sense you've found both autonomy and safetybut it's a 
little
lonely out there.


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] IN DEFENSE OF SMOKERS - Chapter 6: The Propaganda Machine

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 28 Jul 99, , Kris wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> from:
> http://www.lcolby.com/b-chap6.htm
> http://www.lcolby.com/b-chap6.htm">"In Defence of Smokers", by
> Lauren A. Colby / C 
> -
> The whole book is online.
> Om
> K
> -
> IN DEFENSE OF SMOKERS
> © 1999, Lauren A. Colby. Version 2.3Chapter 6: The Propaganda Machine
>
>
> 
>
> Chapter 6: The Propaganda Machine
>
>
>
> Beginning in the early 1950's, the American Cancer Society started to
> wage war against smoking. Later, the government took up the cudgel and,
> today, there is a government agency, the Office of Smoking and Health,
> dedicated to stamping out smoking. Unfortunately, the government
> propaganda is often predicated upon assertions which are simply untrue.
> In many instances, these are examples of the "LaLonde effect".

The whole anti-smoking campaign has always seemed to me an enormous
boondoggle. What with all the carcinogenic pesticides in our air and water and on our
food, not to mention toxic emissions from all the vehicles that traverse the country 
and
jam city streets, how the medical industry can tell which respiratory illnesses came
from tobacco and which from all the other toxic pollutants in our environment has
always been a mystery to me.

The effect of the anti-smoking campaign has mostly been --all going to lawyers
who are making a fortune from those who continue to smoke and now pay up to $3.50
a pack or $35 a carton for cigarettes, at least a third of this "taxes."

In fact, it is an outrageous swindle. While I do not doubt that smoking causes some
illnesses and some fatalities, the warnings on the packages have been loud and clear
for years and years, putting the responsibility in smokers hands..

What I want to see now is "victims" suing the liquor industry when accidents are
caused by drivers who have had a drink or two...or families are devastated by
alcoholism. Not something I expect to see in my lifetime.

Some years ago, the New York Times ran a short article naming at least six kinds of
cancer that smoking helped prevent. Wish I still had that article.

Also, it might be interesting to know what the particular gripe was against Phillip
Morris, who seemed especially generous and active in supporting and promoting
philantrhopic and cultural actiivities.

It would also be interesting to see a truly responsible study of any decline in teenage
smoking and its relation to other drug use. I would expect to see any decline in teen
smoking accompanied by a rise in the use of other drugs including marijuana and hard
drugs, since some part of smoking is connected to tension release. Curiously, I think
nicotine is the only "drug" that generally increases alertness and does not impair
motor function, while all the others seem to cause some degree of "impairment" and
involve serious "anti-social" behavior to procure--behavior which can have extremely
serious and more immediate consequences than death at 80 from respiratory illness.



sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] A message from the owners

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 29 Jul 99, , Bill wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Thanks to Mary Drake and Midori Kurai...
>
>
> Editorial 6/04/99
> >
> >  A Letter From The Keepers
> >
> >
> > Dearest Citizens of the World,
> >
> >  I believe the time has come to reveal to you some of the perplexities
> > you have faced in recent decades. It is well for you to understand some of
> > these things so that you might know how to behave in the New Order now
> taking
> > shape in the earth. We want you to be able to become fully involved and
> > integrated into our new society. After all, this is for your best interest
> if
> > you will do this.
---
I've been watching the PBS series on the Kennedys and seeing the events of the past
decades so condensed, one can't help but see "the Keepers" hand behind events,
making sure that no one--however bright, daring, energetic, intelligent, courageous, or
appealing their effort-- interferes with the agenda. Last night's episode took us 
through
Bobby's assassination and Teddy's troubles at Chappaquidick. Many notable figures
have made an appearance on the stage. The one figure most notable by his absence
is that of GWB.  In spite of his "homespun" performance, I keep envisioning him as
that dark, sininster, caped figure that dominated the ads for "Amadeus."

It also strikes me that if the Kennedys themselves had any idea of an organized
"force" working against them, they have never said a word or pointed a finger.
Well, they were master "gameplayers" and perhaps they just knew that wasn't how the
game was played. Not in the rules. And the game IS played by the rules. But if they--
with all the money and power and public support they have had at their disposal--
couldn't do it, what makes us think we can?





sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Om

Re: [CTRL] "Serb hunting".

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 4 Aug 99, , Mrs. wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> The Committee for National Solidarity
> Tolstojeva 34, 11000 Belgrade, YU
>
> A student of mine, Greek-American, bicycle maniac, toured Kosovo in the
> 1980s.
>
> When he asked the Albanian dudes what they did for fun, their answer was:
>
> "Serb hunting".
>
> pera

These posts are deeply disturbing. The anger and hatred and ongoing outrage they
reflect certainly makes me feel that Serbs and Albanians, Christians and Muslins,  in
this region should have been left alone until there was only one of each left 
standing. It
certainly makes it sound as if any attempt to recreate a civilized country where
differences are handled rationally is just about doomed.

Vengeance is infinite and only ends when everyone involved in the conflict is dead.

The notion of "sacred land" that "belongs" to those who have built churches on it has
caused bloodshed since the beginning of time.










sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Om

[CTRL] Drought

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

> Drought Is Worst Since Depression." Washington Post, 2 Aug 99, A1, A7.
> "Temperatures Drop Across the Midwest." Washington Times, 2 Aug 99, A6.
>  In the mid-Atlantic and Northeast U.S. the ground is drier than it
>  has been since the Great Depression according to Agriculture
>  Secretary Dan Glickman.  While just an inconvenience to some, the
>  drought has devastated farmers and acres of corn and soybeans.  182
>  people have died from the sweltering temperatures in the northeast
>  half of the United States, 30 in Chicago.  A statewide emergency was
>  declared for Maryland last week and 11 localities in Virginia have
>  asked for federal disaster assistance.  The East Coast is also
>  suffering from poor air quality, worsened by the heat and drought.
>  New York's smog conditions are the worst they have been in a decade.
>  With no relief in sight, water restrictions have been enforced in
>  several areas.  Food prices are not expected to increase
>  significantly.
>
I heard some commentator on the evenings news (NBC) talking about the drought and
saying that these conditions would go on "for decades." (Sorry, didn't catch the name
or rank or serial number).

If the government is not tampering with the weather, how can they possibly know that?


sno0wl

sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] [Alert!] U.S. buildup in Colombia? (fwd)

[Sno0wl]

lp rally support for the
>  guerrillas. Even if many Colombians would support a U.S. intervention,
>  there would be a strong nationalistic reaction in other Latin American
>  countries.
>
>  U.S. officials say the current policy -- focusing on military anti-drug aid
>  -- will ultimately weaken the rebels as well, because drug-trafficking
>  rings pay the guerrillas up to $500 million a year in protection money.
>  ``If we can do away with the drug traffickers, the guerrillas will not have
>  the capacity to subsist at their current levels,'' one U.S. official said.
>
>  Others add that by strengthening its underequipped army, Colombia's
>  government will be able to negotiate from a position of greater strength.
>
>  What do I think? The United States is highly unlikely to commit combat
>  troops to Colombia. But some influential hard-liners in Washington are
>  whispering that if 55 U.S. military advisors helped to defeat a leftist
>  insurgency in El Salvador in the 1980s, the same could be done in Colombia.
>  I would not be surprised if the next U.S. president -- especially if it's a
>  Republican -- follows that road.
>  =
>   David L. Wilson  *  212-674-9499  * <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   If you can't spell it, don't bomb it! -- Anonymous
>  =
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
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> Om
>


sno0wl

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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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Re: [CTRL] How to go brain dead in easy links

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 4 Aug 99, , piper wrote:

> http://freeweb.digiweb.com/science_fiction/ThePiedPiper/chem.htm
> How many of you realize that the brain cells
> are nerve cells that have myelin sheaths on them?
> check out the Canola Oil and how it strips the myelin
> sheath off of nerves!

Grapeseed oil is a wonderful alternative. For some reason it is available in my local
Grand Union. Actually, it is distributed under the Grand Union label. If you don't see 
it
on the shelf, ask the manager. If they don't have it, they can get it for you and may
start stocking it. The other source is health food stores, but it is probably cheaper 
in
the GU.


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: SNET: Confirmation: $30 million of White United Natio

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 5 Aug 99, , Nicola wrote:

> > Bastrop.. AllTexas News  Nestled behind a hillside, just out of sight
> > from busy Highway 95 in Bastrop County, Texas, lies a growing fleet of
> > nearly a thousand showroom-new SUVs, 4WD pickups, suburbans and vans.
> > These vehicles are not overflow storage for an overstocked dealer.  This
> > fleet is owned by the federal government.
> >
> > All the vehicles are U.N. White.

The Catch-22 is that anyone tries to do anything about it creates an excuse to use
them.


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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Re: [CTRL] Sexual coercion by young women growing ?

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 5 Aug 99, , YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

> Altho I've heard some guys claim they had sex with females who
> 'pressured' them, because the guys said they felt that if they didn't,
> their 'manhood' would be questioned

Part of the old, standard college line. Seems to me I remember that if you weren't
willing or showed reluctance, the first thing the guy said was that you were --or
probably were--"frigid."
Same old same old.


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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Re: [CTRL] George Dubya (fwd)

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

Thanks for posting these Molly Ivins articles. What a breath of fresh air


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Looking behind the Bushes

[Sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 7 Aug 99, , Kris wrote:

> Looking behind
> the Bushes
>
>
> Little noted or little remembered moments in the life of George Bush
> Sr., his family, and his pals
> 
> This article appeared in the Progressive Review during the 1992 campaign
>


You really gotta give these guys credit for getting things done...and getting away with
it,. too. No questions asked.


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] OBE's

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 30 Oct 99, at 11:08, earthman wrote:

> NOW.the site above is where a disciple of robert
> monroe went recently to see the gathering and to see
> what is going on there with it!!
>
> a long article resultsthe one that the link goes
> to...
> it is all there folks..the whole nine yards...i
> thought ya would like to read this from yet ANOTHER
> explorer!!
> ...be prepared tp be amazed...this robert monroe
> OBE-thing is *NOT* just for to go local obe!!

As Andrew Hennessey said in his post about Ascension, I have
some reservations about this sort of anticipation of what we
commonly regard as "death." I've had some experience (non-drug)
in these realms of OBE and NDE, certainly regard life as a
transitory experience, and yet still feel a great deal of attachment
to the beauty of this planet (which is awesome, if you've stopped to
notice lately)...and do wonder about the passivity this sort of
experience--as described in The Gathering--might engender. I
suppose it's all to the good if it helps folks handle fear...but on the
other hand

It occurs to me that one of the good things about the 60s-early 70s
when so many people were experimenting with tripping was that
people had to learn to accept the individuality of each person's
visions...material that emanated from the individual unconscious.
That acceptance generated a great deal of trust and tolerance--at
least in certain small groups of people.  The writer of The Gathering
suggests that what he experienced is a collective vision...and that
worries me. It reminds me a little too much of Bo and Peep. (The
San Diego suicides).

In Buddhist circles, if you have an experience like this, one of the
first things your teacher will tell you is to forget it. Fantastic
visionary experiences are not considered conducive to real spiritual
growth. Maybe this guy will have more to tell us when he learns to
make that Castenadian leap.

Just my 2 cents worth.

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Re: [CTRL] New study shows link between sex and violence among N.C. high sch ool males

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 29 Oct 99, at 16:18, Tatman, Robert wrote:

> These same males are more likely to fight, carry a weapon to school,
> attempt suicide, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol and use illegal
> substances, said the report's author, Robert H. DuRant, Ph.D., vice-chair
> for Health Services Research for the Department of Pediatrics at Wake
> Forest University Baptist Medical Center and director of the Brenner
> Center for Child and Adolescent Health.
>
> In 1997, 40.5 percent of sexually experienced males who carried a gun to
> school had been involved in a pregnancy, while only 13.2 percent of
> non-gun carriers had been involved in a pregnancy, according to the
> report. Also, 27 percent of males who had been in six or more fights in
> the last year had also been involved in a pregnancy . "This data is not
> meant to imply that violent behavior causes pregnancy or vice versa,"
> DuRant said. "It shows that health risk behaviors co-occur and that we
> must address and focus on a full range of behaviors to make an impact."

This is an interesting way of "reframing" the problem of young men
who "grow up too soon," most without solid family structure around
them (although Littleton would certainly prove the exception to that
generalization) In sociological terms, it really is worth of NLP.

Certainly seems worthy of that Landover Baptist Church in its logic
and thinking, too.What with suicide rates rising alarmingly
among teenagers and smoking and drinking alcohol generally also
high among adolesccent males, this should include an awful lot of
teenage boys. Funny, it doesn't mention anxiety or stress as
leading to violence. But it does suggest that all "risk takers" may
be violent.

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Re: [CTRL] Sex/Machine ...

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 30 Oct 99, at 8:06, Das GOAT wrote:

> Not an uncommon nightmare vision --Happy Hallowe'en, by the way!-- of the
> (possibly) true position of man on earth vis-a-vis "superior
> intelligences" in the greater universe. Sufi-inspired teacher Gurdjieff
> suggested as much in saying sagely, but darkly, "Man is food for 'the
> moon,' " indicating some "higher" realm that, for us, just signifies DEATH
> and could be perceived only as the rabbit perceives the wolf higher on the
> food-chain. Colin Wilson has dramatized a similar vision in works of
> fiction --in a whole "series" on this subject-- cinematically represented
> by "Lifeforce," although he has ALSO written a SERIOUS (?) essay arguing
> this possibility, imbedded in one of those "sci-fi" novels.  (In fact,
> Wilson takes Sitchin's OPTIMISM about "Nibiru" and stands it on its head
> ...)

Just to add a little bit to this, contrary to Christian teaching which
says that everyone has a "soul" which ascends to Divine Realms
or descends to Hell, depending on the individual's behavior in life
regarding good and evil, Gurdjieff (also drawing on Tibetan
Buddhism) taught that a soul had to be created by an individual
using conscious effort to do so. And that very few humans troubled
themselves to make that effort. He was the first teacher to offer
Westerners a method by which this could be done. It is in this vein
that Buddhists train themselves with an eye to achieving a
"conscious" death. In such training a "soul" can be created and in
a conscious death, that soul is released safely to its further destiny
and does not "feed the moon."And yes, both John  Lilly and Colin
Wilson can both be better understood through an understanding of
Gurdjieff.

Interesting to me is that P.L. Travers, author of my favorite books in
childhood, "Mary Poppins," was a practicing Sufi. Also Doris
Lessing, one of my later favorites.

Gurdjieff also put political unrest to seismic upheaval and said that
there was nothing to do but get out of the way. He also said that
such times were a gift to those who aspired to consciousness
since it created energies which could be used to this purpose by
those who knew how to use them. You certainly could say that
such a philosophy is elitist since, according to G and related
teachings, only one in a million would make the effort and create a
soul worthy of escaping a darker fate. However, the opportunity
was open to all.

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Re: [CTRL] Sex/Machine ...

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 31 Oct 99, at 0:45, Prudence L. Kuhn wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 10/30/1999 5:35:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Funny how, almost universally, cosmology-as-theology mirrors sociology --
>  "religion" functioning as a way of "spiritually" legitimizing a
>  political-economic class structure. >>
>
> Yes, and if there's anything to the information in the Dictionary of Angels,
> the class structure seems to continue right on into paradise/hades (what have
> you).  Really a bummer.  Prudy
>
Is it possible that, like many species, we are hardwired for
hierarchy?

sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] fw: IUFO: Alien Invasion Set For Dec 99!

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 31 Oct 99, at 0:19, Nicky Molloy wrote:

> This information comes from Dr. David Jacobs. He has hypnotized
> hundreds of alien abductees. So has Budd Hopkins. In both "Intruders,"
> which was written in 1986, and "The Threat," which was written in 1997,
> abductees give the date of 1999 as the year the aliens will do something.
> An abductee also told me she feels the aliens will do something soon. We
> speak of the Greys here. And they are controlled by the Lizards
> (Reptoids). Both are a parasitic race. They live off the blood and flesh,
> energy and toil of others. Every time a planet goes thru a pole shift,
> they swoop down like buzzards to snatch their helpless prey. It's been
> done before. This is why He stirs up wars. To see the blood fly. To catch
> the escaping soul in the air. To laugh at God as they perform the
> wholesale slaughter of the innocent.

And you think L. Ron Hubbard has some strange notions???!!!

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Re: [CTRL] article

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 31 Oct 99, at 21:25, Smart News wrote:

> " members are watched all the time and
> their loyalty is tested "...the dogma is enacted through rituals,...
> regularly observe(d) rituals, rituals frequently invoke supernatural
> intervention,... staged events such as planned spontaneity... mystical
> manipulations, cults capitalize on members' fear and ignorance,...a sense
> of separateness (is promoted) through an "us" and "them" mentality, ...
> siege mentality with a paranoid view of the outside world, humor is
> forbidden, resistance of members is worn down through physical and
> emotional manipulations, a person's identity is destroyed... to create a
> new one," members give up their autonomy to be approved," mind control is
> used to indoctrinate the victim into the group's belief system,
> individuality is uniformly suppressed,... a well-defined hierarchy,"
> members are used to benefit leader(s), "mind control is used ...to convert
> the victim to the group's belief system,... to insure secrecy... and to
> carry out cult instructions."("Safe Passage to Healing" - p 47 - 48)

Sounds an awful lot like family life to me.


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Heavenly Osiris and Earthly Isis? No doubt.

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 1 Nov 99, at 11:57, Tatman, Robert wrote:

> Should've remembered Cyrus Gordon. I've read Graves at length; while a lot
> of his interpretations try a little too hard to see echoes of
> Völkerwanderungen and dynastic upheavals, much of his analysis is borne
> out by more "reputable" scholars such as Marija Gimbutas and William F.
> Albright, "the father of Palestinian archaeology".

Marija Gimbutas had to wait until after retirement to publish her
books about The Goddess. Had she published earlier, she would
certainly have risked academic ostracism.

Back in the 70s, I merely mentioned Ellizabeth Gould Davis' book,
"The First Sex" at a gathering that included many academic
women and was greeted by howls of laughter and much sneering.
After all, Davis, in the first chapter of her book, mentions Atlantis,
Fer Gawd's Sake. How could anyone take this Florida librarian
(who documented almost every word she said in her extensive
bibliography) seriously.

sno0wl


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Barbara Marx Hubbard; NWO/U.S. Army Delta Force consultant

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 2 Nov 99, at 0:13, Dave wrote:

> David Rockefeller, current head of Rockefeller empire and member (past
>  chairman) of Council on Foreign Relations, is widely recognized as the
>  foremost partisan for world government under the UN. Here is what
>  benevolent capitalist', Rockefeller is on record as stating in 1973 about
>  Mao Tse-tung: (NY Times 8-10-73)
>
>  "Whatever the price of the Chinese Revolution, it has obviously succeeded
>  not only in producing more efficient and dedicated administration, but
>  also in fostering high morale and community of purpose. The social
>  experiment in China under Chairman Mao's leadership is one of the most
>  important and successful in human history."

If one remembers anything of Chinese history, one must remember
that the Chinese Revolution grew out a nation decimated by drugs
(imported from the West and virtually forced on the people until
addiction was achieved), desperate poverty, and  almost
inconceivable corruption at Imperial levels. The Revolution was, in
fact a rebellion against these things. Then one understands that
flooding the US with drugs and creating poverty is a step in the
direction of creating a like "revolution" here in America.

And you were surpised by the massacre in Tienamen Square? It is
sort of paradoxical: The leadership has reason to despise the West
remembering the corruption it bred in China prior to the Revolution--
a corruption that reduced the massive population to desperation
and starvation.  Yet many young Chinese associate western
"democracy" with freedoms they long for and don't enjoy under
their present regime.


sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] The Phony Battle Against 'Isolationism'

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 2 Nov 99, at 8:51, Prudence L. Kuhn wrote:

> nd don't forget how long the Croats and Muslims were battered by the well
> armed Serbs without the Bush Administration saying one word.  Watching the
> zoo keepers shot while trying to feed the animals, watching the lovers who
> had been given permission to cross into the Serb zone, shot by Serb
> snipers, didn't bother President Bush at all.  For years I wondered why he
> didn't do something.  During the very early days of that mess, a harsh
> word from Bush would have stopped the whole thing.  He said nothing.
> Around a year ago, I was listening to Thomas Eagleberger on a talking
> heads thing.  Someone asked him why George Bush did nothing and said
> nothing when all that started.  He said, "Well, he had business interests
> there."
>

And just what do you think those "business interests" were. I don't
think there's any oil there.H



sno0wl

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Re: [CTRL] Skeptic News - Tuesday #1

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 2 Nov 99, at 0:29, Ric Carter wrote:

> . PERPETUUM MOBILE: ABC TO EXPOSE FREE ELECTRICITY HUCKSTER.
> Dennis Lee is three-fourths of the way through his 45 city tour of
> the US to demonstrate his technology for making unlimited free
> electricity (WN 1 Oct 99).  He's been tracked by ABC Good Morning
> America consumer reporter Janice Lieberman.  Her report is set for
> next Friday.  Lee depends on "permanent magnet motors that are
> more than 200% efficient" and the "Fourth Law of Motion" to make
> free electricity.  All it takes to get one of his machines
> installed in your home, so you can be disconnected from the grid
> before the Y2K crisis blacks out everyone else, is a $275 gift to
> Better World Technologies, Inc., and I'm from the planet Mongo.

Several years ago--back in the distant past when, files from the
internet had to be saved to a floppy disk because hard drive space
was so precious,I came upon some files that purported to be from
the journals of a man named Leedskalnin (SP?).

Leedskalnin was an eccentric recluse who built an extraordinary
"castle" somewhere in FLorida. The building required moving
tonnage of massive stones and much else that would lead anyone
to ask how this could be done by one man alone.

The files I downloaded described not exactly how he did this but
how to build something with simple magnets which could
accomplish things most people would consider impossible. The
plans told you how to do this in miniature  (using magnets) so you
could see how it worked.  (And yes, it did occur to me that the
material could be bogusbut it did tell you how to make a model,
step by step, so you could see that it worked.)

To me this seemed quite a findbut not being an engineer, the
files seemed just beyond my understanding and I never got around
to making the model. But I did find and save them.  I still have all
those old floppies and every once in awhile, I swear I'm going to go
through them file by file until I discover what I did with those files.

Leedskalnin's Castle is a tourist attraction in Floridaand
everytime I read an article about him (Some have appeared in
Smithsonian Magazine) it mentons that no one can understand
how in the world he did this.

Perhaps someone else downloaded those files and actually made
the modeland perhaps it worked
sno0wl

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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Re: [CTRL] Scenario plans

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-
On 3 Nov 99, at 16:32, Taylor, John (JH) wrote:

>I  was at a scenario planning exercise last week. two interesting things
> came out from the man in control.
>

Scenario for whatdeveloped by whom?

Gurdjieff may have met Crowley but I really don't think they were "linked."  Both Gurdjieff and Crowley were "rugged individualists" by which I mean they were each into their very own thing. I don't think Gurdjieff considered himself involved with the "occult" though he actually may have been..He was involved with "the way things really are"--which may be a definition of the "occult" if the truth is hidden.






sno0wl

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CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Concerning Satan

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 4 Nov 99, at 0:29, Eagle 1 wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Kris Millegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> writes:: > God is good, God is great, God is not mocked. Allah be praised.
> >  Satan is a lie. <<<
Snip***
> "For as much then as the children are partakers of the flesh and blood, He
> also himself likewise took part of the same;  that through death He might
> destroy him that had the power of death,  that is the devil [Satan]".
> Hebrews 2:14
>
> Again,  you are welcome to believe what you will,  but when there is
> substantial evidence to prove this personnage's emminence and presence,  I
> really do not understand how you can say *he is a lie*,  when truly,  truly
> as Christ has said,
> Satan is the liar,  and the father of all lies...   John 8:44.
> Makes no sense to say he is a lie,  when he is the liar of liars.

Since, in our present system here on Earth, you cannot have light
without darkness and most things exist on a spectrum that can be
called a polar duality, I suppose you might have to come up with a
name for that which does not support the Light end of the spectrum.
However the Dark End is not always evil. If you must call the Dark
End "Satan," well, that's your problem.

It would seem that our task as evolving human beings is to resolve
dualities and to rise above them. As Gurdjieff once said, there is
the Holy Affirming, the Holy Denying, and the Holy Reconciling.
Whenever you think there are only two answers, yes or no, you
have to look again. You've forgotten something.

Curiously, the ancients who mapped our skies and plotted out the
planets and constellatioins considered that the new day began
when the sun went down. (Which explains why Jewish holidays
and Sabbaths always begin at sundown.) After all, when the sun is
risen, the larger universe is completely hidden from the human eye.


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] OT: NYC Must Fund "Sensation," Exhibit w/Virgin Mary Adorned in Dung (fwd)

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 4 Nov 99, at 9:46, MICHAEL SPITZER wrote:

> `The judge is totally out of control,'' Giuliani said during an
> upstate New York outing. He accused Gershon of ``abandoning all
> reason under the guise of the First Amendment.''

This is Giuliani in a nutshell. He seems to think everything and
everone needs to be "controlled." It's part of his effort to prove
himself a true Republican frontrunner.


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Maxygen Announces $6.7 Million Grant from DARPA to Develop Aerosolized Vaccines

[sno0wl]

 -Caveat Lector-

On 4 Nov 99, at 22:14, Steve Wingate wrote:

>Aerosol delivery of prophylactic and therapeutic agents is potentially the
> simplest and most cost-effective way to protect or treat humans and
> animals from disease epidemics. In addition to this recent DARPA grant,
> Maxygen is the recipient of two additional DARPA grants in the vaccine
> area. In February 1998, Maxygen received a $5.6 million grant to evolve
> novel DNA vectors for efficient delivery and expression of pathogen
> antigens, and in April 1999, the Company received a grant of $7.7 million
> to generate novel vaccine antigens for a wide range of pathogens.

In other words, we would have no idea whether we were being
sprayed with the poison or with the antidote!!


sno0wl

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om