[PSES] Help guide the development of a new machinery EMC standard
Colleagues, You are invited to complete the IEEE Standards Association 1848-MSSV Survey. The survey is designed to help the 1848-MSSV committee better understand the kinds of EMC resilience techniques and measures your organization employs when designing and building the control systems for your machines. The survey results will guide the development of the new IEEE 1848.1 Standard on Techniques and Measures to Manage Functional Safety and Other Risks with Regards to Electromagnetic Disturbances – Machinery Sector. You can learn more about the project on the committee website <https://sagroups.ieee.org/1848-mssv/>. The survey is entirely voluntary. You can stop at any time. You can complete the survey anonymously. There is no need to reveal any private or proprietary information. The last day for completion of the survey is September 30, 2023. If you have any questions about the survey or its purpose, please contact the 1848-MSSV Chair, Mr. Doug Nix d...@ieee.org <mailto:d...@ieee.org>. You can access the survey here: https://forms.gle/uyNop51jEjFh91RcA Thank you for your help! Doug Nix d...@ieee.org +1 (519) 729-5704 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC=1
[PSES] Help required - I need to change my registered email address
Good morning As above, and so please could one of the staff contact me and arrange to do that. Thanks in advance. John E Allen W.London, UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] FW: Help with petition to be an IEEE President Elect candidate in 2021
See following message. You must be an IEEE member to sign the petition. After you log in to your IEEE account, you will get the petition page. Click on the "Annual Election Petition," and you will get the petition page. Best regards, and stay safe! Rich -Original Message- From: Tom Coughlin Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 9:54 AM To: ri...@ieee.org Subject: Help with petition to be an IEEE President Elect candidate in 2021 Hello folks and best wishes for 2021! I am an active and long-time IEEE volunteer, involved and very productive in MGA, TA, SA and IEEE-USA activities. I am seeking to get on the ballot to run for IEEE President Elect in 2021. You can find the petition here: www.ieee.org/petition. IEEE graduate students and higher grade members can sign the petition. If you do sign my petition it would be a great help if you could post a note like this to your social media or pass on this email to others: “I’m supporting the petition to include Tom Coughlin on the IEEE President-elect slate of candidates. Please add your signature to his petition (www.ieee.org/petition). This is not an election vote. It adds Tom to the ballot.” You can find out more about me at https://tomcoughlin.com/ieee This page gives information about my IEEE activities, a link to the petition and information on why I want to run. Thanks for your attention and best wishes! Coughlin Associates www.tomcoughlin.com 1665 Willowmont Ave San Jose, CA 95124 USA - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Need help repairing log-spiral antenna
I have a 3101 I purchased in the early '80s. There are no visible fasteners holding the back on. Can send pictures If needed. -Bob Sykes From: Ken Javor Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 6:40 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] Need help repairing log-spiral antenna CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. My employer back in the 70's and '80s had all three: EMCO 3101 uhf, EMCO 3102, uwave and the EMCO 3103 big uhf, but I honestly don't recall the details of the 3103 construction down to the appropriate level of detail... The back does set flush with the base of the cone. The question is what holds it there... Also the base is phenolic and the cone is fiberglass. Any adhesive experts out there with a recommendation for the proper glue? Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Ken Wyatt Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 16:22:30 -0700 To: Ken Javor Cc: "EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org" Subject: Re: [PSES] Need help repairing log-spiral antenna Hi Ken, We used one of these (I believe from EMCO) back when I started with HP in the late 1980s. It sure seemed to me it was just glued, as I don't recall any fasteners. The joint seemed to be flush with the cone. It's long gone, so no pictures. Ken ___ I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to help! Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC 56 Aspen Dr. Woodland Park, CO 80863 Phone: (719) 310-5418 Web Site <http://www.emc-seminars.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.emc-seminars.com__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!PbnPOuUdyC8WimrQBLNJvjNpugHep0IS7Oe673_PrFkmvBM768LCidiDaAsdFGGEMw$>> | Blog <https://design-4-emc.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/design-4-emc.com__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!PbnPOuUdyC8WimrQBLNJvjNpugHep0IS7Oe673_PrFkmvBM768LCidiDaAtwb59agw$>> The EMC Blog (EDN) <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!PbnPOuUdyC8WimrQBLNJvjNpugHep0IS7Oe673_PrFkmvBM768LCidiDaAs6jbyBVQ$>> Subscribe to Newsletter <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!PbnPOuUdyC8WimrQBLNJvjNpugHep0IS7Oe673_PrFkmvBM768LCidiDaAuTvMUAbQ$>> Connect with me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!PbnPOuUdyC8WimrQBLNJvjNpugHep0IS7Oe673_PrFkmvBM768LCidiDaAvo-nj9XA$>> On Dec 9, 2020, at 4:04 PM, Ken Javor wrote: Need help repairing log-spiral antenna List Members with an EMI test facility, Recently purchased subject antenna, which is damaged. See attached image. Tensor made the EMCO log-spirals before EMCO acquired them, way back. I had an opportunity to buy the antenna in the image, and it is the same as an EMCO 3103. Unfortunately, they packed it up like it was indestructible, and it wasn't - the box was intact, but the antenna within had come apart as can be seen. The back plate was originally glued in, but there are also holes for fasteners, visible in the image. None of the fasteners were in the antenna or even in the box. It could be that the fasteners were only there during assembly to hold the back plate in place long enough for the glue to set. I got with ETS/Lindgren to see assembly drawings for their log-spirals, but that hasn't been fruitful. I am reaching out to the list membership for a description of how the EMCO or ETS/Lindgren 3101 or better yet EMCO or ETS/Lindgren 3103 is put together. The main question is whether or not there are any fasteners, and if so, metal or nylon, or? Also any evidence of glue, or how the back plate stays in place. I have two uhf log-spirals like the EMCO 3101, but one is from Electro-Metrics, and the other Stoddart/Singer, and neither show any evidence of what holds them together, plus it wouldn't necessarily apply, anyway. If there are fasteners, a close-up image would be really helpful for me to figure out what I need to get. Thank you, Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html__;!!KPww_GFiJXw!PbnPOuUdyC8WimrQBLNJvjNpugHep0IS7Oe673_PrFkmvBM768LCidiDaAtJpomWUA$> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communiti
Re: [PSES] Need help repairing log-spiral antenna
My employer back in the 70¹s and 80s had all three: EMCO 3101 uhf, EMCO 3102, uwave and the EMCO 3103 big uhf, but I honestly don¹t recall the details of the 3103 construction down to the appropriate level of detail... The back does set flush with the base of the cone. The question is what holds it there... Also the base is phenolic and the cone is fiberglass. Any adhesive experts out there with a recommendation for the proper glue? Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Ken Wyatt Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 16:22:30 -0700 To: Ken Javor Cc: "EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org" Subject: Re: [PSES] Need help repairing log-spiral antenna Hi Ken, We used one of these (I believe from EMCO) back when I started with HP in the late 1980s. It sure seemed to me it was just glued, as I don¹t recall any fasteners. The joint seemed to be flush with the cone. It¹s long gone, so no pictures. Ken ___ I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to help! Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC 56 Aspen Dr. Woodland Park, CO 80863 Phone: (719) 310-5418 Web Site <http://www.emc-seminars.com> | Blog <https://design-4-emc.com> The EMC Blog (EDN) <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog> Subscribe to Newsletter <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html> Connect with me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/> > On Dec 9, 2020, at 4:04 PM, Ken Javor wrote: > > Need help repairing log-spiral antenna > List Members with an EMI test facility, > > Recently purchased subject antenna, which is damaged. > > See attached image. Tensor made the EMCO log-spirals before EMCO acquired > them, way back. I had an opportunity to buy the antenna in the image, and it > is the same as an EMCO 3103. Unfortunately, they packed it up like it was > indestructible, and it wasn¹t the box was intact, but the antenna within had > come apart as can be seen. The back plate was originally glued in, but there > are also holes for fasteners, visible in the image. None of the fasteners > were in the antenna or even in the box. It could be that the fasteners were > only there during assembly to hold the back plate in place long enough for the > glue to set. I got with ETS/Lindgren to see assembly drawings for their > log-spirals, but that hasn't been fruitful. I am reaching out to the list > membership for a description of how the EMCO or ETS/Lindgren 3101 or better > yet EMCO or ETS/Lindgren 3103 is put together. The main question is whether or > not there are any fasteners, and if so, metal or nylon, or? > > Also any evidence of glue, or how the back plate stays in place. > > I have two uhf log-spirals like the EMCO 3101, but one is from > Electro-Metrics, and the other Stoddart/Singer, and neither show any evidence > of what holds them together, plus it wouldn't necessarily apply, anyway. > > If there are fasteners, a close-up image would be really helpful for me to > figure out what I need to get. > > Thank you, > > Ken Javor > Phone: (256) 650-5261 > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used > formats), large files, etc. > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher > David Heald > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Need help repairing log-spiral antenna
Hi Ken, We used one of these (I believe from EMCO) back when I started with HP in the late 1980s. It sure seemed to me it was just glued, as I don’t recall any fasteners. The joint seemed to be flush with the cone. It’s long gone, so no pictures. Ken ___ I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to help! Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC 56 Aspen Dr. Woodland Park, CO 80863 Phone: (719) 310-5418 Web Site <http://www.emc-seminars.com/> | Blog <https://design-4-emc.com/> The EMC Blog (EDN) <https://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/4376432/The-EMC-Blog> Subscribe to Newsletter <http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html> Connect with me on LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt/> > On Dec 9, 2020, at 4:04 PM, Ken Javor wrote: > > List Members with an EMI test facility, > > Recently purchased subject antenna, which is damaged. > > See attached image. Tensor made the EMCO log-spirals before EMCO acquired > them, way back. I had an opportunity to buy the antenna in the image, and it > is the same as an EMCO 3103. Unfortunately, they packed it up like it was > indestructible, and it wasn’t – the box was intact, but the antenna within > had come apart as can be seen. The back plate was originally glued in, but > there are also holes for fasteners, visible in the image. None of the > fasteners were in the antenna or even in the box. It could be that the > fasteners were only there during assembly to hold the back plate in place > long enough for the glue to set. I got with ETS/Lindgren to see assembly > drawings for their log-spirals, but that hasn't been fruitful. I am reaching > out to the list membership for a description of how the EMCO or ETS/Lindgren > 3101 or better yet EMCO or ETS/Lindgren 3103 is put together. The main > question is whether or not there are any fasteners, and if so, metal or > nylon, or? > > Also any evidence of glue, or how the back plate stays in place. > > I have two uhf log-spirals like the EMCO 3101, but one is from > Electro-Metrics, and the other Stoddart/Singer, and neither show any evidence > of what holds them together, plus it wouldn't necessarily apply, anyway. > > If there are fasteners, a close-up image would be really helpful for me to > figure out what I need to get. > > Thank you, > > Ken Javor > Phone: (256) 650-5261 > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html> > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ > <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <http://www.ieee-pses.org/> > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> > Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> > David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Help [General Use]
Thanks to all those who pointed me in the right direction and I'm pleased to have provided a modicum of humour on a Friday :) Best Regards, Dave Coleman AIIRSM Selex ES Ltd "Usually I try to take it one day at a time, but lately several have attacked me at once..." -Original Message- From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 15 July 2016 19:13 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Help [General Use] *** WARNING *** This message has originated outside your organisation, either from an external partner or the Global Internet. Keep this in mind if you answer this message. I replied directly to him (only) this morning and he said that the post was not intended for the whole forum! He needed help on getting some email addresses off the distribution list, so I pointed him (I hope) in the right direction. Therefore, on David's behalf, I think this (nevertheless quite amusing!) chain of posts should probably stop now. John E Allen W.London, UK -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: 15 July 2016 17:22 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Help [General Use] The one marked 'Missile launch'? With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Is there a homeopathic remedy for excessive gullibility? -Original Message- From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 4:50 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Help [General Use] My professional advice for Mr. Coleman is to press the Big Red Button. Brian From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 12:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Help [General Use] I can understand that anyone in Basildon would cry for help on general principles, but could you be a bit more explicit on what sort of help you are seeking? With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Is there a homeopathic remedy for excessive gullibility? From: Coleman, David (Leonardo, UK) [mailto:david.cole...@leonardocompany.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 7:52 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Help [General Use] HELP Selex ES Ltd Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales. Company no. 02426132 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Re: [PSES] Help [General Use]
I replied directly to him (only) this morning and he said that the post was not intended for the whole forum! He needed help on getting some email addresses off the distribution list, so I pointed him (I hope) in the right direction. Therefore, on David's behalf, I think this (nevertheless quite amusing!) chain of posts should probably stop now. John E Allen W.London, UK -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: 15 July 2016 17:22 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Help [General Use] The one marked 'Missile launch'? With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Is there a homeopathic remedy for excessive gullibility? -Original Message- From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 4:50 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Help [General Use] My professional advice for Mr. Coleman is to press the Big Red Button. Brian From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 12:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Help [General Use] I can understand that anyone in Basildon would cry for help on general principles, but could you be a bit more explicit on what sort of help you are seeking? With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Is there a homeopathic remedy for excessive gullibility? From: Coleman, David (Leonardo, UK) [mailto:david.cole...@leonardocompany.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 7:52 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Help [General Use] HELP Selex ES Ltd Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales. Company no. 02426132 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Help [General Use]
The one marked never press the red button. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 12:22 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Help [General Use] The one marked 'Missile launch'? With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Is there a homeopathic remedy for excessive gullibility? -Original Message- From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 4:50 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Help [General Use] My professional advice for Mr. Coleman is to press the Big Red Button. Brian From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 12:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Help [General Use] I can understand that anyone in Basildon would cry for help on general principles, but could you be a bit more explicit on what sort of help you are seeking? With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Is there a homeopathic remedy for excessive gullibility? From: Coleman, David (Leonardo, UK) [mailto:david.cole...@leonardocompany.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 7:52 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Help [General Use] HELP Selex ES Ltd Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales. Company no. 02426132 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Help [General Use]
The one marked 'Missile launch'? With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Is there a homeopathic remedy for excessive gullibility? -Original Message- From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 4:50 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Help [General Use] My professional advice for Mr. Coleman is to press the Big Red Button. Brian From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 12:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Help [General Use] I can understand that anyone in Basildon would cry for help on general principles, but could you be a bit more explicit on what sort of help you are seeking? With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Is there a homeopathic remedy for excessive gullibility? From: Coleman, David (Leonardo, UK) [mailto:david.cole...@leonardocompany.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 7:52 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Help [General Use] HELP Selex ES Ltd Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales. Company no. 02426132 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Help [General Use]
My professional advice for Mr. Coleman is to press the Big Red Button. Brian From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 12:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Help [General Use] I can understand that anyone in Basildon would cry for help on general principles, but could you be a bit more explicit on what sort of help you are seeking? With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Is there a homeopathic remedy for excessive gullibility? From: Coleman, David (Leonardo, UK) [mailto:david.cole...@leonardocompany.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 7:52 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Help [General Use] HELP Selex ES Ltd Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales. Company no. 02426132 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] Help [General Use]
I can understand that anyone in Basildon would cry for help on general principles, but could you be a bit more explicit on what sort of help you are seeking? With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Is there a homeopathic remedy for excessive gullibility? From: Coleman, David (Leonardo, UK) [mailto:david.cole...@leonardocompany.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 7:52 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Help [General Use] HELP Selex ES Ltd Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales. Company no. 02426132 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
[PSES] Help [General Use]
HELP Selex ES Ltd Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales. Company no. 02426132 This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
[PSES] Help with HP 8546A Receiver System
Greeting experts. We have a 20 year old HP 8546A RF Receiver System which we love very much. We believe the Backup Battery has died because when we turn it on it cannot remember the date and time AND it says it is using Default Correction Factors. We are guessing that it has lost its calibration data. When we try to run the internal calibrations, we get a Cal: RES BW AMPL FAIL error and an SRQ 110 which points to a hardware error. But we think it maybe more than a coincident that the backup battery and hardware problem would occur at the same time. 1. Do you think replacing the battery and having the receiver calibrated will return it to life? 2. Does anyone have a Service Manual for this receiver? We are willing to buy it. 3. Does anyone have a working HP8546A (or compatible) system we could bed, borrow, buy, rent, or steel? 4. Any other insight, recommendations, of suggestions?; other than those of our RS Sales Rep? Thanks to all. The Other Brian LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Help with HP 8546A Receiver System
Thanks to all for your help. Larry helped us load the default calibration data and the receiver sprang to life. It now passes the self-calibration without errors and it appears to be working like new. We'll get it officially calibrated in a few weeks and return it to service. I'm very grateful to Larry and all who contribute to this email group. Have a great weekend. The very happy Other Brian From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Friday, July 17, 2015 10:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Help with HP 8546A Receiver System Greeting experts. We have a 20 year old HP 8546A RF Receiver System which we love very much. We believe the Backup Battery has died because when we turn it on it cannot remember the date and time AND it says it is using Default Correction Factors. We are guessing that it has lost its calibration data. When we try to run the internal calibrations, we get a Cal: RES BW AMPL FAIL error and an SRQ 110 which points to a hardware error. But we think it maybe more than a coincident that the backup battery and hardware problem would occur at the same time. 1. Do you think replacing the battery and having the receiver calibrated will return it to life? 2. Does anyone have a Service Manual for this receiver? We are willing to buy it. 3. Does anyone have a working HP8546A (or compatible) system we could bed, borrow, buy, rent, or steel? 4. Any other insight, recommendations, of suggestions?; other than those of our RS Sales Rep? Thanks to all. The Other Brian LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.orgmailto:sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Call for help on MCSC and VSD low-frequency conducted emissions
IEC SC77A, responsible for IEC 61000-3-2- and -12 and IEC 61000-4-7, is reviewing the method of measuring the low-frequency (100 Hz to 2 kHz or 120 Hz to 2.4 kHz) conducted emissions into the mains supply. It wasn't actually intended to review the method of measurement, but to resolve certain issues with specific types of product that do not meet emission limits but are not known to cause EMI incidents. But it has been found that the method of measurement may in some cases report emissions, at significant levels, that do not in fact exist. I would like to discuss these issues in more detail with people who work with Multi Cycle Synchronous Control for energy regulation and Variable (or Adjustable) Speed Drives. While we have experts on the latter in the specialist group doing the work, we do not have an MCSC expert. I suggest you contact me off-list if you can help. But any exciting news can be reported on this list. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Why is the stapler always empty just when you want it? John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Agency logo help
Hi Group!Does anyone on the list have Corel Draw? If yes, could you take an agency logo that was sent to me in Corel Draw native format and export it for me to an EPS or Illustrator friendly file format? Please reply directly off-list and I'll send you the .cdr file. The folks that I am working with at the agency are not much help. They have two versions, the .cdr and ajpeg that looks like it was scanned after being printed out!Thanks in advance.--Dan Roman, N.C.E.VP Communications ServicesIEEE Product Safety Engineering Societymailto:dan.roman@ieee.orghttp://www.ieee-pses.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Agency logo help
Hi Dan, There are LOTS of free online resources for this, Google: /free online converter corel cdr eps/ The Internet is teaming with useful resources like this. Sometimes you have to be a little careful but applying a little common sense and a little research usually eliminates the risk. Sometimes (not always) you need to register an email address, but that sounds fair enough to me for a valuable free service. I have email addresses I use specifically for such purposes. Hope this helps, T BTW. If anyone's interested, I have a favourite free online .pdf to Microsoft Word .doc converter which produces excellent results even for documents containing extensive layout, formatting, tables and images. Feel free to email me for the link... I'm not associated or affiliated to it in any way, it's just a really good service. Would a forum thread for sharing personally recommended free Internet resources relevant to the Group be appropriate? T - Original Message - From: Dan Roman, N.C.E. Sent: 08/02/13 01:26 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Agency logo help Hi Group! Does anyone on the list have Corel Draw? If yes, could you take an agency logo that was sent to me in Corel Draw native format and export it for me to an EPS or Illustrator friendly file format? Please reply directly off-list and I'll send you the .cdr file. The folks that I am working with at the agency are not much help. They have two versions, the .cdr and a jpeg that looks like it was scanned after being printed out! Thanks in advance. -- Dan Roman, N.C.E. VP Communications Services IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society dan.ro...@ieee.org http://www.ieee-pses.org http://www.ieee-pses.org/ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.org GT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT; emcp...@radiusnorth.net GT; Mike Cantwell LT; mcantw...@ieee.org GT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT; j.bac...@ieee.org GT; David Heald LT; dhe...@gmail.com GT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Agency logo help
Per the reply, much stuff avail for file conversion. The problem with CDR is inclusion of both raster/vector/bit in single crazed file. I have used Inkscape (which I recommend for general use) with reasonable results for image file format direct conversions, but have had some problems with very old stuff, where I had write a script that used a weird Python library. Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Thomson Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 6:22 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Agency logo help Hi Dan, There are LOTS of free online resources for this, Google: free online converter corel cdr eps The Internet is teaming with useful resources like this. Sometimes you have to be a little careful but applying a little common sense and a little research usually eliminates the risk. Sometimes (not always) you need to register an email address, but that sounds fair enough to me for a valuable free service. I have email addresses I use specifically for such purposes. Hope this helps, T BTW. If anyone's interested, I have a favourite free online .pdf to Microsoft Word .doc converter which produces excellent results even for documents containing extensive layout, formatting, tables and images. Feel free to email me for the link... I'm not associated or affiliated to it in any way, it's just a really good service. Would a forum thread for sharing personally recommended free Internet resources relevant to the Group be appropriate? T - Original Message - From: Dan Roman, N.C.E. Sent: 08/02/13 01:26 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Agency logo help Hi Group! Does anyone on the list have Corel Draw? If yes, could you take an agency logo that was sent to me in Corel Draw native format and export it for me to an EPS or Illustrator friendly file format? Please reply directly off-list and I'll send you the .cdr file. The folks that I am working with at the agency are not much help. They have two versions, the .cdr and a jpeg that looks like it was scanned after being printed out! Thanks in advance. -- Dan Roman, N.C.E. VP Communications Services IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society mailto:dan.ro...@ieee.org http://www.ieee-pses.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;emcp...@radiusnorth.netGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Agency logo help
Group, Thank you to all that offered assistance in the file conversion. I apparently have a version of Illustrator that is 6 or 7 versions too new as Adobe have lost the recipe in newer versions to do the importation. Someone on the list was able to read the file with an older version of Illustrator and save it in a format that my newer version could read. Have a good weekend, Dan From: Dan Roman, N.C.E. [mailto:danp...@verizon.net] Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 8:26 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Agency logo help Hi Group! Does anyone on the list have Corel Draw? If yes, could you take an agency logo that was sent to me in Corel Draw native format and export it for me to an EPS or Illustrator friendly file format? Please reply directly off-list and I'll send you the .cdr file. The folks that I am working with at the agency are not much help. They have two versions, the .cdr and a jpeg that looks like it was scanned after being printed out! Thanks in advance. -- Dan Roman, N.C.E. VP Communications Services IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society mailto:dan.ro...@ieee.org mailto:dan.ro...@ieee.org http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Flicker help
In message j10vnrlsz9irf...@jmwa.demon.co.uk, dated Thu, 9 May 2013, John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk writes: Second, the last note in A.14 says that Pst and Plt are to be determined analytically. As I have done the calculations don?t seem to be very different from the measured values (as long as the source is stiff enough to handle the inrush.) It does not seem to adjust the limits at all. Am I seeing this correctly? I agree that is a bit obscure and I will ask the person 'in charge' of the standard. Don't hold your breath. I asked three questions: 1. Is A.14 the right clause to apply? Could A.8 be applied? ANSWER: I believe that A.14 is correct; A.8 is based on very short time and infrequent operation of food mixers, whereas A.14 is relevant for equipment that is in more frequent operation. 2. Why do P_st and P_lt have to be 'analytically evaluated' rather than read from the flickermeter? ANSWER: I believe that the reason for this is to account for cycle times that are less than 120 minutes, but I am not 100% certain. I would be comfortable for the results to be recorded by a flickermeter. 3. How can the sentence be interpreted when the manufacturer can't state a number of cycles per hour? ANSWER: Difficult to know what to suggest: I would recommend looking to set an average number of operations per hour, but clearly this is open to local interpretation. From the manufacturers perspective they should be looking to ensure that their products do not cause interference with other equipment, if they don't there is a risk that users will be subject to complaints which they will ultimately pass back to the manufacturer. I think the third answer indicates that the standard needs improvement. But it has just been updated, so no-one will want to change it soon. For Europe, this is a case where involving a Notified Body may be the safest course of action. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk They took me to a specialist burns unit - and made me learn 'To a haggis'. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Flicker help
A little background first. I am testing single phase commercial soft serve ice cream machine similar to what you might find at a fast food restaurant or a local ice cream vendor. The unit normally draws less than 1A of current until the compressor and motors turn on, at that point the current draw is about 14A. This happens about every 10 minutes if product is not being drawn from the machine. If ice cream cones and shakes are being drawn at a rate of 1-2 a minute all of the motors will run continuously. So, with that said I have been running the machine in the idol state with no product being drawn as this would be the typical mode during the slow times in the normal installed location. With this type of machine I have been referring to A.14 of IEC 61000-3-3 for the test criteria. There are a couple of items in A.14 that don't seem to be very clear. First, the 3rd dashed item under a) says to measure dmax 24 times in accordance with Annex B, but if the 1st measurement is +/- 10% of the dmax referenced in Clause 5 then only 1 measurement is required. If the result is higher than that of Clause 5 isn't it a failure? Second, the last note in A.14 says that Pst and Plt are to be determined analytically. As I have done the calculations don't seem to be very different from the measured values (as long as the source is stiff enough to handle the inrush.) It does not seem to adjust the limits at all. Am I seeing this correctly? Third, the equation (5) in Clause 4.2.3.1 calls for the dmax value. Since dmax is a percentage should the value be entered as 4 or 0.04 if the dmax value is 4%? In all of this it seems that A.14 gives the impression that there is some understanding that EUT's with compressors will have difficulties complying with the standard but it doesn't appear that there is any slack given in the limits, only that you have a modified route to show compliance. Is there something that I am missing here?? Also, I did try using the method described in b) of A.14, it gave worse results. Locked rotor current for compressors is extremely high, for the one I calculated the locked rotor current is 60A and I used an assumed PF of 0.8. All comments are appreciated, I have been struggling through this one for a little while now. Regards, Josh - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Flicker help
In message 2d77bd88981bd243829b548acfc608bb01d1c...@uusnwe1k.na.utcmail.com, dated Thu, 9 May 2013, Wiseman, Joshua E joshua.e.wise...@carrier.utc.com writes: With this type of machine I have been referring to A.14 of IEC 61000-3-3 for the test criteria. There are a couple of items in A.14 that don?t seem to be very clear. First, the 3rd dashed item under a) says to measure dmax 24 times in accordance with Annex B, but if the 1st measurement is +/- 10% of the dmax referenced in Clause 5 then only 1 measurement is required. If the result is higher than that of Clause 5 isn?t it a failure? The standard actually says something subtly different. If the first result is NOT within +/-10% of the limit, only that result is needed. The point is that some switch-on events cause a very high inrush but this is rare, so averaging over 24 operations is needed only if such high values occur. Second, the last note in A.14 says that Pst and Plt are to be determined analytically. As I have done the calculations don?t seem to be very different from the measured values (as long as the source is stiff enough to handle the inrush.) It does not seem to adjust the limits at all. Am I seeing this correctly? I agree that is a bit obscure and I will ask the person 'in charge' of the standard. Don't hold your breath. Third, the equation (5) in Clause 4.2.3.1 calls for the dmax value. Since dmax is a percentage should the value be entered as 4 or 0.04 if the dmax value is 4%? It says 'expressed as a percentage', so 4 would be correct. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk They took me to a specialist burns unit - and made me learn 'To a haggis'. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Where's Doug? (was: RE: [PSES] help)
Thanks to all for the effort and attention. Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. From: Peter Tarver ptar...@enphaseenergy.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 3:25 PM Subject: RE: Where's Doug? (was: RE: [PSES] help) Doug has contacted me. All is well. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Where's Doug? (was: RE: [PSES] help)
Doug has contacted me.� All is well. � Regards, � Peter L. Tarver, PE � This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Where's Doug? (was: RE: [PSES] help)
I tried the company number last evening and the ACD�s employee directory booted me. � A number of people have contacted me off the list to assist.� Thank you. � Summary: � Doug�s LinkedIn profile shows him in the Fort Collins, CO, area and he�s �independent� from sometime in September, though he posted from his aei.com mail account. � All attempts to contact the company have not yielded positive results. � I contacted one person whom I know is in CO, but he�s neither near Fort Collins, nor does he know anyone in that area. � Fort Collins is about 65 miles from Denver and anywho.com shows 8 Doug Powell�s in CO., six of which are either in Denver or a suburb thereof, and one is in Colorado Springs.� One is in Loveland, 23 miles from Fort Collins. � I called the Loveland number a few minutes ago and left a voice message asking that, if that was the correct Doug Powell�s number that he please post to the list. � � The optimist in me holds to the proposition that Doug was trying to get listserver commands. � � Regards, � Peter L. Tarver, PE � � This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] help
How about contacting HR at his company? Regards, Chris James Dolby Europe Licensing Limited +44-7795-823302 (Sent from BlackBerry) From: Peter Tarver ptar...@ieee.org To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Fri Sep 30 01:46:48 2011 Subject: Re: [PSES] help Still no word from Doug. It's been nearly 20 hours since he posted under this subject. Anyone live or work near him? Peter Tarver Peter Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] help
Still no word from Doug. It's been nearly 20 hours since he posted under this subject. Anyone live or work near him? Peter Tarver Peter Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] help
If Doug doesn't respond to this e-mail, someone in his vicinity should look in on him. Probably trying to get the list of commands from the server, but one never knows. Date sent: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 04:30:08 + Send reply to: Powell, Doug doug.pow...@aei.com From:Powell, Doug doug.pow...@aei.com Subject: [PSES] help Originally to: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Peter Tarver, PE ptar...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
help
This message, including any attachments, may contain information that is confidential and proprietary information of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. The dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited without the express written consent of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
Thanks to everyone for their valuable input. We are pondering our options. ___ _ Jim Eichner | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Compliance Engineering Manager Phone: +1-604-422-2546 | Mobile: +1-604-418-8472 Email: jim.eich...@ca.schneider-electric.com mailto:jim.eich...@ca.schneider-electric.com | Site: www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies http://www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies | Address: 8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC, V5A 4B5 *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail From: Jim Eichner jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 02/14/2011 02:16 PM Subject:[PSES] Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements Hi everyone: We are about to move (groan) and while this generally is a pain, it provides the opportunity to fix a few problems along the way. Our 3m SAC is usable, and indeed gets fairly heavy use, but is not as good as I think it could be, in a few ways: - Our emissions measurement correlation to real labs is OK but could be better, particularly on conducted emissions - Our aging HP rack (the classic 856x series) is getting old and is starting to be costly to maintain - time to switch? - We have always just had a manual turntable and would like to see what's involved in going with a motorized turntable and controller - We have aging cones, many with broken tips - maybe not an issue, but maybe it is? - We haven't researched what it would take to go past 1GHz with our RE measurements, but we need to - Etc. I think it would be worthwhile to have someone who is an expert in design and troubleshooting of SAC's and EMC instrumentation come here, give us a once-over, make recommendations for improvements that we could implement as part of the move, and perhaps participate in the teardown and relocation of the chamber (not as simple as it sounds) or recommend someone who could. If you are interested and qualified, or know someone who is, please reply to me off-line at jim.eich...@ca.schneider-electric.com. I would prefer somebody at least somewhat local - we are in the Vancouver BC area. Thanks, Jim ___ _ Jim Eichner | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Compliance Engineering Manager Site: www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies http://www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies | Address: 8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC, V5A 4B5 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
hi Bob, wish I had your patience and Money :-) Or maybe you have mine lol... I guess you're in one camp or the other, I'll stick to Agilent. I could never get used to reverse polish logic either, despite being told how much better it was As for a click receiver, check out the PMM, I have, it's a 3rd the cost of R and S, and every bit as good Make that better cos' I'm not worrying about the $8k repair bill for the RS every time I hook something up. Cheers, Derek. -Original Message- From: Bob Richards b...@toprudder.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Tue, Feb 15, 2011 8:45 pm Subject: Re: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements --- On Tue, 2/15/11, Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com wrote: snip. my point was about perception. As for the RS? Thats an opinion formed by using it, perhaps the best opinion? Derek, I use a RS ESI almost every day. I love it. Yes, it is expensive, but it did not come out of MY paycheck. :-) (Well, maybe it did?? :-( It took a couple of months of using it before I decided I liked it more than the Agilent 7405 (which I still like). The 7405 has a much easier user interface, which helps if you are only an occasional user, and it also has a built-in help system (which includes the GPIB commands for every function - which I REALLY like). The RS ESI has a clunky user interface, but after you get used to performing the repetitive operations with it, you can fly through measurements with it. In receiver mode, it can display peak, QP and average measurements all at once. We are considering buying another RS soon. We need a 55014 click analyzer and one of the RS models has that function built in. Bob R. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
--- On Tue, 2/15/11, Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com wrote: snip. my point was about perception. As for the RS? Thats an opinion formed by using it, perhaps the best opinion? Derek, I use a RS ESI almost every day. I love it. Yes, it is expensive, but it did not come out of MY paycheck. :-) (Well, maybe it did?? :-( It took a couple of months of using it before I decided I liked it more than the Agilent 7405 (which I still like). The 7405 has a much easier user interface, which helps if you are only an occasional user, and it also has a built-in help system (which includes the GPIB commands for every function - which I REALLY like). The RS ESI has a clunky user interface, but after you get used to performing the repetitive operations with it, you can fly through measurements with it. In receiver mode, it can display peak, QP and average measurements all at once. We are considering buying another RS soon. We need a 55014 click analyzer and one of the RS models has that function built in. Bob R. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
Chris, Of the analyzers I have used, I like the RS ESI the most. Expensive, though. It took me a while to warm up to it, it was a lot different than any of the HP/Agilents that I have used (859x, 8566, 740x). The 740x is also nice analyzer. I use that to perform the conducted immunity level setting procedure since it is faster than anything else I have used. I can do a 150k to 230M calibration in less than 15 minutes with it. We have recently contracted with Panashield to come in and handle the 1 - 6 GHz setup. We looked into buying the necessary equipment and learning how to use it, and how to perform the verification, and decided to let them handle it. Bob R. --- On Mon, 2/14/11, Chris Anderson (cmanderson) cmander...@micron.com wrote: From: Chris Anderson (cmanderson) cmander...@micron.com Subject: RE: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements To: jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com, emc-p...@ieee.org Date: Monday, February 14, 2011, 6:13 PM Good luck Jim… We moved one two years ago and that pain is still fresh in my mind. The only advice I can offer on that is to label everything and take plenty of notes/pictures. While I won’t be moving a chamber anytime soon, we are trying to get approval to replace the same, aging 856x stack. If anyone cares to comment on that online, I would be interested in any thoughts or recommendations as well. We’re also in the same situation of needing to go beyond 1GHz RE measurements (also in a 3m SAC), so any comments on that topic would be appreciated as well. Thanks, Chris From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 3:15 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements Hi everyone: We are about to move (groan) and while this generally is a pain, it provides the opportunity to fix a few problems along the way. Our 3m SAC is usable, and indeed gets fairly heavy use, but is not as good as I think it could be, in a few ways: - Our emissions measurement correlation to real labs is OK but could be better, particularly on conducted emissions - Our aging HP rack (the classic 856x series) is getting old and is starting to be costly to maintain - time to switch? - We have always just had a manual turntable and would like to see what's involved in going with a motorized turntable and controller - We have aging cones, many with broken tips - maybe not an issue, but maybe it is? - We haven't researched what it would take to go past 1GHz with our RE measurements, but we need to - Etc. I think it would be worthwhile to have someone who is an expert in design and troubleshooting of SAC's and EMC instrumentation come here, give us a once-over, make recommendations for improvements that we could implement as part of the move, and perhaps participate in the teardown and relocation of the chamber (not as simple as it sounds) or recommend someone who could. If you are interested and qualified, or know someone who is, please reply to me off-line at jim.eich...@ca.schneider-electric.com. I would prefer somebody at least somewhat local - we are in the Vancouver BC area. Thanks, Jim _ Jim Eichner | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Compliance Engineering Manager Site: www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies http://www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies | Address: 8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC, V5A 4B5 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc
RE: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
Preference for spectrum analyzers and network analyzers are like computers, some like PCs some like Apples. Which is better? Depends on the person and intended use. Dennis Ward Director of Engineering American Certification Body Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry http://www.acbcert.com 703-847-4700 fax 703-847-6888 direct - 703-880-4841 From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 3:17 AM To: bfr...@direct.ca; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements Hi Barry, Having ridden in a BMW @ 120+ I can truly say that it wasn't a comfortable experience, in fact it's a common recurring nightmare along with falling off structures. The same is not true for Audi, but my point was about perception. As for the RS? Thats an opinion formed by using it, perhaps the best opinion? :-) Derek. -Original Message- From: Barry Rowland bfr...@direct.ca To: Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Tue, Feb 15, 2011 2:10 am Subject: Re: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements Derek; you wrote: As for RS. Well I think of them like BMW's. All image Very expensive image... When you want to feel comfortable driving at 220+ km/h (136 mph, for the metric-challenged), the image of BMW (or Audi, or...) becomes a very desirable reality ... Maybe the same can be said about that other Bavarian manufacturer, RS ;-) barry rowland salo, finland P.S. I've worked, as an Application Engineer, with both companies' equipment. On 15-Feb-11, at 2:46 AM, Derek Walton wrote: Hi Jim, First. Get the conflict of interest warning out of the way... Second. Almost everything you need answers to are one of the reasons we set up EMC LAB Services. Suggest you contact Wally Pilat there. I'm still using my 8566 SA's. As yet they still do everything I need. I had the collie conversion done, very nice too. As for RS. Well I think of them like BMW's. All image Very expensive image... There are options from Agilent, Teseq etc that are far better in North America. Cheers. Derek Walton L f research Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2011, at 5:15 PM, jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Hi everyone: We are about to move (groan) and while this generally is a pain, it provides the opportunity to fix a few problems along the way. Our 3m SAC is usable, and indeed gets fairly heavy use, but is not as good as I think it could be, in a few ways: - Our emissions measurement correlation to real labs is OK but could be better, particularly on conducted emissions - Our aging HP rack (the classic 856x series) is getting old and is starting to be costly to maintain - time to switch? - We have always just had a manual turntable and would like to see what's involved in going with a motorized turntable and controller - We have aging cones, many with broken tips - maybe not an issue, but maybe it is? - We haven't researched what it would take to go past 1GHz with our RE measurements, but we need to - Etc. I think it would be worthwhile to have someone who is an expert in design and troubleshooting of SAC's and EMC instrumentation come here, give us a once-over, make recommendations for improvements that we could implement as part of the move, and perhaps participate in the teardown and relocation of the chamber (not as simple as it sounds) or recommend someone who could. If you are interested and qualified, or know someone who is, please reply to me off-line at jim.eich...@ca.schneider-electric.com. I would prefer somebody at least somewhat local - we are in the Vancouver BC area. Thanks, Jim __ __ Jim Eichner | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Compliance Engineering Manager Site: www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies http://www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies | Address: 8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC, V5A 4B5 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee
Re: [PSES] Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
Woof! I was interested in finding out more about the collie conversion. I have a retriever and wonder if she’d be jealous. I can see I'm in the doghouse, sorry :-( -Original Message- From: Mike Violette mi...@wll.com To: 'Derek Walton' lfresea...@aol.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Tue, Feb 15, 2011 4:37 am Subject: RE: [PSES] Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements Woof! I was interested in finding out more about the collie conversion. I have a retriever and wonder if she’d be jealous. My first 8468B (vintage now, 21 years old) still has a great heartbeat…I’ll probably be buried with her. Mike Violette mi...@wll.com Washington Laboratories Radio Frequency and Electrical Safety 301 216-1500 cell: 240 401 1388 From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com mailto:lfresea...@aol.com? ] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 9:04 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements Doggone iPhone spell check! Colour, or color depending on where you're from. My bad. -Original Message- From: Price, Edward ed.pr...@cubic.com To: IEEE EMC forum emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 7:02 pm Subject: RE: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements From: emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org? ] On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 4:46 PM To: jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com mailto:jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com Cc Hi Jim, I'm still using my 8566 SA's. As yet they still do everything I need. I had the collie conversion done, very nice too. Derek Walton L f research Collie conversion? Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher
Re: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
Hi Barry, Having ridden in a BMW @ 120+ I can truly say that it wasn't a comfortable experience, in fact it's a common recurring nightmare along with falling off structures. The same is not true for Audi, but my point was about perception. As for the RS? Thats an opinion formed by using it, perhaps the best opinion? :-) Derek. -Original Message- From: Barry Rowland bfr...@direct.ca To: Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Tue, Feb 15, 2011 2:10 am Subject: Re: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements Derek; you wrote: As for RS. Well I think of them like BMW's. All image Very expensive image... When you want to feel comfortable driving at 220+ km/h (136 mph, for the metric-challenged), the image of BMW (or Audi, or...) becomes a very desirable reality ... Maybe the same can be said about that other Bavarian manufacturer, RS ;-) barry rowland salo, finland P.S. I've worked, as an Application Engineer, with both companies' equipment. On 15-Feb-11, at 2:46 AM, Derek Walton wrote: Hi Jim, First. Get the conflict of interest warning out of the way... Second. Almost everything you need answers to are one of the reasons we set up EMC LAB Services. Suggest you contact Wally Pilat there. I'm still using my 8566 SA's. As yet they still do everything I need. I had the collie conversion done, very nice too. As for RS. Well I think of them like BMW's. All image Very expensive image... There are options from Agilent, Teseq etc that are far better in North America. Cheers. Derek Walton L f research Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2011, at 5:15 PM, jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Hi everyone: We are about to move (groan) and while this generally is a pain, it provides the opportunity to fix a few problems along the way. Our 3m SAC is usable, and indeed gets fairly heavy use, but is not as good as I think it could be, in a few ways: - Our emissions measurement correlation to real labs is OK but could be better, particularly on conducted emissions - Our aging HP rack (the classic 856x series) is getting old and is starting to be costly to maintain - time to switch? - We have always just had a manual turntable and would like to see what's involved in going with a motorized turntable and controller - We have aging cones, many with broken tips - maybe not an issue, but maybe it is? - We haven't researched what it would take to go past 1GHz with our RE measurements, but we need to - Etc. I think it would be worthwhile to have someone who is an expert in design and troubleshooting of SAC's and EMC instrumentation come here, give us a once-over, make recommendations for improvements that we could implement as part of the move, and perhaps participate in the teardown and relocation of the chamber (not as simple as it sounds) or recommend someone who could. If you are interested and qualified, or know someone who is, please reply to me off-line at jim.eich...@ca.schneider-electric.com. I would prefer somebody at least somewhat local - we are in the Vancouver BC area. Thanks, Jim _ ___ Jim Eichner | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Compliance Engineering Manager Site: www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies http://www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies | Address: 8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC, V5A 4B5 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org
RE: [PSES] Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
Woof! I was interested in finding out more about the collie conversion. I have a retriever and wonder if she’d be jealous. My first 8468B (vintage now, 21 years old) still has a great heartbeat…I’ll probably be buried with her. Mike Violette mi...@wll.com Washington Laboratories Radio Frequency and Electrical Safety 301 216-1500 cell: 240 401 1388 From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 9:04 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements Doggone iPhone spell check! Colour, or color depending on where you're from. My bad. -Original Message- From: Price, Edward ed.pr...@cubic.com To: IEEE EMC forum emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 7:02 pm Subject: RE: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements From: emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org? ] On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 4:46 PM To: jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com mailto:jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com Cc Hi Jim, I'm still using my 8566 SA's. As yet they still do everything I need. I had the collie conversion done, very nice too. Derek Walton L f research Collie conversion? Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
Derek; you wrote: As for RS. Well I think of them like BMW's. All image Very expensive image... When you want to feel comfortable driving at 220+ km/h (136 mph, for the metric-challenged), the image of BMW (or Audi, or...) becomes a very desirable reality ... Maybe the same can be said about that other Bavarian manufacturer, RS ;-) barry rowland salo, finland P.S. I've worked, as an Application Engineer, with both companies' equipment. On 15-Feb-11, at 2:46 AM, Derek Walton wrote: Hi Jim, First. Get the conflict of interest warning out of the way... Second. Almost everything you need answers to are one of the reasons we set up EMC LAB Services. Suggest you contact Wally Pilat there. I'm still using my 8566 SA's. As yet they still do everything I need. I had the collie conversion done, very nice too. As for RS. Well I think of them like BMW's. All image Very expensive image... There are options from Agilent, Teseq etc that are far better in North America. Cheers. Derek Walton L f research Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2011, at 5:15 PM, jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Hi everyone: We are about to move (groan) and while this generally is a pain, it provides the opportunity to fix a few problems along the way. Our 3m SAC is usable, and indeed gets fairly heavy use, but is not as good as I think it could be, in a few ways: - Our emissions measurement correlation to real labs is OK but could be better, particularly on conducted emissions - Our aging HP rack (the classic 856x series) is getting old and is starting to be costly to maintain - time to switch? - We have always just had a manual turntable and would like to see what's involved in going with a motorized turntable and controller - We have aging cones, many with broken tips - maybe not an issue, but maybe it is? - We haven't researched what it would take to go past 1GHz with our RE measurements, but we need to - Etc. I think it would be worthwhile to have someone who is an expert in design and troubleshooting of SAC's and EMC instrumentation come here, give us a once-over, make recommendations for improvements that we could implement as part of the move, and perhaps participate in the teardown and relocation of the chamber (not as simple as it sounds) or recommend someone who could. If you are interested and qualified, or know someone who is, please reply to me off-line at jim.eich...@ca.schneider-electric.com. I would prefer somebody at least somewhat local - we are in the Vancouver BC area. Thanks, Jim _ ___ Jim Eichner | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Compliance Engineering Manager Site: www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies http://www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies | Address: 8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC, V5A 4B5 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc
RE: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
I like the 7405a EMC SA to 26.5 GHz. We have a compact 3m. I've added cones and tiles to make a semi FAC. While the NSA is just about in, it is somewhat different than the OATS we have. How do you do a NSA without the 4m scan? Think out of the box! It is still not valid, but for engineer work, it is close enough. Note, when re-assembling the chamber, be sure to clean the edges of the panels where the electrical contact is to be made. Some Cu tape and Cu wool will be very useful too. How to know? Many years ago, I ran across an old piece of equipment for testing seams such as these. It applied an AC current via a couple of connections, one each for the far diagonal corners. Then had a battery powered magnetic pickup from what I could tell, and an analog meter reading, like an S-meter. Get that pickup near an amonaly in the field and the meter would swing. Loose hats and flats (that the joints between panels) would swing the meter a lot. clean the joint and tighten, meter would settle down. Attitude is Mind over Matter. If you don't Mind, it doesn't Matter... This email has been displayed using 100% recycled electrons and 100% pure virgin photons. --- On Mon, 2/14/11, Chris Anderson (cmanderson) cmander...@micron.com wrote: From: Chris Anderson (cmanderson) cmander...@micron.com Subject: RE: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements To: jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com, emc-p...@ieee.org Date: Monday, February 14, 2011, 6:13 PM Good luck Jim… We moved one two years ago and that pain is still fresh in my mind. The only advice I can offer on that is to label everything and take plenty of notes/pictures. While I won’t be moving a chamber anytime soon, we are trying to get approval to replace the same, aging 856x stack. If anyone cares to comment on that online, I would be interested in any thoughts or recommendations as well. We’re also in the same situation of needing to go beyond 1GHz RE measurements (also in a 3m SAC), so any comments on that topic would be appreciated as well. Thanks, Chris From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 3:15 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements Hi everyone: We are about to move (groan) and while this generally is a pain, it provides the opportunity to fix a few problems along the way. Our 3m SAC is usable, and indeed gets fairly heavy use, but is not as good as I think it could be, in a few ways: - Our emissions measurement correlation to real labs is OK but could be better, particularly on conducted emissions - Our aging HP rack (the classic 856x series) is getting old and is starting to be costly to maintain - time to switch? - We have always just had a manual turntable and would like to see what's involved in going with a motorized turntable and controller - We have aging cones, many with broken tips - maybe not an issue, but maybe it is? - We haven't researched what it would take to go past 1GHz with our RE measurements, but we need to - Etc. I think it would be worthwhile to have someone who is an expert in design and troubleshooting of SAC's and EMC instrumentation come here, give us a once-over, make recommendations for improvements that we could implement as part of the move, and perhaps participate in the teardown and relocation of the chamber (not as simple as it sounds) or recommend someone who could. If you are interested and qualified, or know someone who is, please reply to me off-line at jim.eich...@ca.schneider-electric.com. I would prefer somebody at least somewhat local - we are in the Vancouver BC area. Thanks, Jim _ Jim Eichner | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Compliance Engineering Manager Site: www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies http://www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies | Address: 8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC, V5A 4B5 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org http://us.mc396.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=emc-p...@ieee.org
Re: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
Doggone iPhone spell check! Colour, or color depending on where you're from. My bad. -Original Message- From: Price, Edward ed.pr...@cubic.com To: IEEE EMC forum emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 7:02 pm Subject: RE: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org? ] On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 4:46 PM To: jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com Cc Hi Jim, I'm still using my 8566 SA's. As yet they still do everything I need. I had the collie conversion done, very nice too. Derek Walton L f research Collie conversion? Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 4:46 PM To: jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com Cc Hi Jim, I'm still using my 8566 SA's. As yet they still do everything I need. I had the collie conversion done, very nice too. Derek Walton L f research Collie conversion? Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com blocked::mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
Hi Jim, First. Get the conflict of interest warning out of the way... Second. Almost everything you need answers to are one of the reasons we set up EMC LAB Services. Suggest you contact Wally Pilat there. I'm still using my 8566 SA's. As yet they still do everything I need. I had the collie conversion done, very nice too. As for RS. Well I think of them like BMW's. All image Very expensive image... There are options from Agilent, Teseq etc that are far better in North America. Cheers. Derek Walton L f research Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2011, at 5:15 PM, jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Hi everyone: We are about to move (groan) and while this generally is a pain, it provides the opportunity to fix a few problems along the way. Our 3m SAC is usable, and indeed gets fairly heavy use, but is not as good as I think it could be, in a few ways: - Our emissions measurement correlation to real labs is OK but could be better, particularly on conducted emissions - Our aging HP rack (the classic 856x series) is getting old and is starting to be costly to maintain - time to switch? - We have always just had a manual turntable and would like to see what's involved in going with a motorized turntable and controller - We have aging cones, many with broken tips - maybe not an issue, but maybe it is? - We haven't researched what it would take to go past 1GHz with our RE measurements, but we need to - Etc. I think it would be worthwhile to have someone who is an expert in design and troubleshooting of SAC's and EMC instrumentation come here, give us a once-over, make recommendations for improvements that we could implement as part of the move, and perhaps participate in the teardown and relocation of the chamber (not as simple as it sounds) or recommend someone who could. If you are interested and qualified, or know someone who is, please reply to me off-line at jim.eich...@ca.schneider-electric.com. I would prefer somebody at least somewhat local - we are in the Vancouver BC area. Thanks, Jim _ Jim Eichner | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Compliance Engineering Manager Site: www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies http://www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies | Address: 8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC, V5A 4B5 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
For anyone looking for an EMI Receiver or any EMC I highly recommend Rohde Schwarz. Thank you. Rob Kado Supervisor, Component EMC Engineering Laboratory Chrysler 800 Chrysler Drive CIMS 481-47-20 Auburn Hills, MI 48326 (248) 467-0639 Sent from my Blackberry Wireless. From: Chris Anderson (cmanderson) [mailto:cmander...@micron.com] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 05:13 PM To: jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com; emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements Good luck Jim… We moved one two years ago and that pain is still fresh in my mind. The only advice I can offer on that is to label everything and take plenty of notes/pictures. While I won’t be moving a chamber anytime soon, we are trying to get approval to replace the same, aging 856x stack. If anyone cares to comment on that online, I would be interested in any thoughts or recommendations as well. We’re also in the same situation of needing to go beyond 1GHz RE measurements (also in a 3m SAC), so any comments on that topic would be appreciated as well. Thanks, Chris From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 3:15 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements Hi everyone: We are about to move (groan) and while this generally is a pain, it provides the opportunity to fix a few problems along the way. Our 3m SAC is usable, and indeed gets fairly heavy use, but is not as good as I think it could be, in a few ways: - Our emissions measurement correlation to real labs is OK but could be better, particularly on conducted emissions - Our aging HP rack (the classic 856x series) is getting old and is starting to be costly to maintain - time to switch? - We have always just had a manual turntable and would like to see what's involved in going with a motorized turntable and controller - We have aging cones, many with broken tips - maybe not an issue, but maybe it is? - We haven't researched what it would take to go past 1GHz with our RE measurements, but we need to - Etc. I think it would be worthwhile to have someone who is an expert in design and troubleshooting of SAC's and EMC instrumentation come here, give us a once-over, make recommendations for improvements that we could implement as part of the move, and perhaps participate in the teardown and relocation of the chamber (not as simple as it sounds) or recommend someone who could. If you are interested and qualified, or know someone who is, please reply to me off-line at jim.eich...@ca.schneider-electric.com. I would prefer somebody at least somewhat local - we are in the Vancouver BC area. Thanks, Jim _ Jim Eichner | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Compliance Engineering Manager Site: www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies http://www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies | Address: 8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC, V5A 4B5 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
Good luck Jim… We moved one two years ago and that pain is still fresh in my mind. The only advice I can offer on that is to label everything and take plenty of notes/pictures. While I won’t be moving a chamber anytime soon, we are trying to get approval to replace the same, aging 856x stack. If anyone cares to comment on that online, I would be interested in any thoughts or recommendations as well. We’re also in the same situation of needing to go beyond 1GHz RE measurements (also in a 3m SAC), so any comments on that topic would be appreciated as well. Thanks, Chris From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of jim.eich...@schneider-electric.com Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 3:15 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements Hi everyone: We are about to move (groan) and while this generally is a pain, it provides the opportunity to fix a few problems along the way. Our 3m SAC is usable, and indeed gets fairly heavy use, but is not as good as I think it could be, in a few ways: - Our emissions measurement correlation to real labs is OK but could be better, particularly on conducted emissions - Our aging HP rack (the classic 856x series) is getting old and is starting to be costly to maintain - time to switch? - We have always just had a manual turntable and would like to see what's involved in going with a motorized turntable and controller - We have aging cones, many with broken tips - maybe not an issue, but maybe it is? - We haven't researched what it would take to go past 1GHz with our RE measurements, but we need to - Etc. I think it would be worthwhile to have someone who is an expert in design and troubleshooting of SAC's and EMC instrumentation come here, give us a once-over, make recommendations for improvements that we could implement as part of the move, and perhaps participate in the teardown and relocation of the chamber (not as simple as it sounds) or recommend someone who could. If you are interested and qualified, or know someone who is, please reply to me off-line at jim.eich...@ca.schneider-electric.com. I would prefer somebody at least somewhat local - we are in the Vancouver BC area. Thanks, Jim ___ _ Jim Eichner | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Compliance Engineering Manager Site: www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies http://www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies | Address: 8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC, V5A 4B5 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Considering a consultant to help with semi-anechoic chamber relocation and performance improvements
Hi everyone: We are about to move (groan) and while this generally is a pain, it provides the opportunity to fix a few problems along the way. Our 3m SAC is usable, and indeed gets fairly heavy use, but is not as good as I think it could be, in a few ways: - Our emissions measurement correlation to real labs is OK but could be better, particularly on conducted emissions - Our aging HP rack (the classic 856x series) is getting old and is starting to be costly to maintain - time to switch? - We have always just had a manual turntable and would like to see what's involved in going with a motorized turntable and controller - We have aging cones, many with broken tips - maybe not an issue, but maybe it is? - We haven't researched what it would take to go past 1GHz with our RE measurements, but we need to - Etc. I think it would be worthwhile to have someone who is an expert in design and troubleshooting of SAC's and EMC instrumentation come here, give us a once-over, make recommendations for improvements that we could implement as part of the move, and perhaps participate in the teardown and relocation of the chamber (not as simple as it sounds) or recommend someone who could. If you are interested and qualified, or know someone who is, please reply to me off-line at jim.eich...@ca.schneider-electric.com. I would prefer somebody at least somewhat local - we are in the Vancouver BC area. Thanks, Jim ___ _ Jim Eichner | Schneider Electric | Renewable Energies Business | CANADA | Compliance Engineering Manager Site: www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies http://www.schneider-electric.com/renewable-energies | Address: 8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC, V5A 4B5 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone
Hi Joe: If the 150 V DC is generated from the 3.7 V DC, then a fault between the two circuits will cause the 150 V DC to stop and become 3.7 V DC. The Law of Conservation of Energy. There is no way the 150 V can cause the 3.7 V to increase! Therefore, there is no need to isolate the 150 V DC from the 3.7 V. Any single fault will result in SELV. * Single-fault testing is applied to any component in the series circuit from a body part touching the USB common to the 150 V DC to the 300 Hz to the touch-screen to the body finger. (All measurements referenced to the USB common.) Merry Christmas! Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone
In message 6.1.0.6.2.20101215231732.01cdb...@pop.randolph-telecom.com, dated Wed, 15 Dec 2010, Joe Randolph j...@randolph-telecom.com writes: Rich's question about what the potential current path would be has bothered me as well. I'm not sure what sort of scenarios to test for, but there may be some sort of scenario involving the USB port and/or headset port that could create a path through the body. That is crucial. At first sight, I would say that you cannot get an electric shock from a battery-operated hand-held device, even if it produces 15 kV (ESD simulator!) I think I will need to show that under any single-fault condition, the voltages that appear on the USB and headset ports remain within SELV limits. Voltages with respect to what? A measurement between ground and the SELV circuit will return zero, apart from a very small voltage due to the 300 Hz current through the capacitance of the user's hand, the user's body and their conducting boots. This is in normal operating conditions. See below for a single-fault condition. You wrote: * A non-isolated DC/DC converter powered from the 3.7V cell phone battery generates a 150 V DC driver supply that will deliver about 5 mA into a 2K ohm load. * The 300 Hz AC output of the driver will deliver about 4 mA RMS into a 2K ohm load. * Both the 150 V DC supply and the 300 Hz AC output share the same circuit reference node with the rest of the phone circuits. * This circuit reference node is normally floating with respect to earth ground, but it can become grounded through the USB port. If the 'hot' end of either the DC or the AC supply (it's NON-isolated) shorts to the SELV circuits, you have a potential burn-up but no electric shock to the user. It is irrelevant whether the product is earthed via its USB connector or not. The only way a shock could occur, it seems to me, is a 2-fault condition where the high-voltage shorts to an isolated headphone output AND the insulation of the headphones or their connector fails as well. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Plural: data, criteria. Singular: datum (different meaning: use 'data element' for a single item), criterion. 'Effect' is a noun, 'affect' is a verb (except in psychiatry). - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone
Where is the loop for the current to flow! If the person is part of that loop, there migth be some questions to answer! I have no problems holding onto a few million volts, tho' grounding might be a shocking experience. If the freq is low enough to avoid being the antenna, no / little displacement current, no problem.. And voltages are measured between points, there is a problem trying to define a voltage without a reference. So for any imagined pair of contacts and the loop between them that might involve a human, what is the voltage difference between those points? SELV? ps. Loops are defined as going all the way around back to the beginning, not just the one way trip to the other point. Bill --- On Wed, 12/15/10, Joe Randolph j...@randolph-telecom.com wrote: From: Joe Randolph j...@randolph-telecom.com Subject: Re: Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone To: ri...@ieee.org Cc: Emc-Pstc emc-p...@ieee.org Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 11:45 PM Rich, Gary, Brian: Thanks for your comments and questions. This is very helpful. Just to clarify, I'm not concerned about the isolation barrier between the high voltage circuit and the surface of the LCD screen. I'm concerned about having to provide isolation between the high voltage circuit and the SELV circuit to which it is connected. If the cell phone were a complete, stand-alone device, it would be possible to simply insulate the entire housing, so that none of the internal circuits are accessible. However, this cell phone (like most others) has a USB port and a headset port. I think this pretty much requires that the internal circuitry to which these ports connect must be treated as a SELV circuit. Using this interpretation, the situation can be summarized as follows: 1) The high voltage circuit is directly connected, without isolation, to a SELV circuit. 2) The high voltage circuit does not appear to meet the criteria for a limited current circuit. I appreciate Rich's insightful comments about whether item #2 is really true, and I will revisit that question with some more analysis and testing. However, if both #1 and #2 remain true, I need to determine how to proceed. The consensus view seems to be that I should apply single-fault testing per clause 2.2.4. Rich's question about what the potential current path would be has bothered me as well. I'm not sure what sort of scenarios to test for, but there may be some sort of scenario involving the USB port and/or headset port that could create a path through the body. I think I will need to show that under any single-fault condition, the voltages that appear on the USB and headset ports remain within SELV limits. Does this sound correct? Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. 781-721-2848 (USA) http://www.randolph-telecom.com Hi Joe: What you describe is very similar to the flash tube circuits in a digital camera. Since you have measured the 150 V and the 300 Hz and determined they are not limited current circuits, I will offer comments based on these circuits being hazardous circuits. (You did not specify the voltage for the 300 Hz.) First comment: Can the circuit be altered such that the maximum current from the 150 V DC is less than 2 mA? If so, both the 150 V DC and the 300 Hz will be limited current circuits, and no safeguards are necessary. (If one circuit is deemed a limited current circuit, then all circuits derived from that circuit are taken as limited current circuits.) First question: In a cell phone that is fully isolated from earth and everything else, what is the current path through the body? There must be a goesinta the body and a goesouta the body electrical connections. Safeguards would be applied between the circuits and these two points. Second question: What is the insulation between the 300 Hz (voltage?) and the outside or the screen that is touched? This may not be physically discrete insulation, but obviously it does comprise insulation. Since the 150 V DC and 300 Hz circuits are derived from a battery, the electric strength of the insulation between the circuits and the accessible parts of the screen need
Re: Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone
pretty familiar with 60950 and the standard compliance methods for the various circuits that appear in ITE equipment. However, this particular circuit does not fit neatly into any of the standard categories. A brute-force compliance analysis would classify this circuit as a hazardous circuit, and would require an isolation barrier between this circuit and any SELV circuits, such as the USB and headset ports on the phone. The voltage is too high to meet the definition of TNV-2, and the current output, while very small, is too high to qualify as a Limited Current Circuit. My sense is that it may be possible to show compliance by using single-fault testing to demonstrate that under fault conditions, all user-accessible points remain within SELV limits. In particular, I'm looking at the wording of clause 2.2.4, Connection of SELV Circuits to Other Circuits. I have never attempted to apply the method of 2.2.4 to a product, so I'm looking for feedback on whether the method is appropriate for this application. Any other suggestions or insights would be most welcome. It seems to me that this type of situation may come up in other applications that use high voltage at very low currents, such as CCFL backlights, EL backlights, and possibly camera flashes. Thanks, Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. 781-721-2848 (USA) j...@randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com/ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone
, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: [PSES] Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone
This is a haz V, so SFC protection is required, and 2.2.3 provides the limits. As for back-light power sources, the models I have done were LCC - which was easy to do because of a very hi-Z load, and as previously stated, were buried under thick plastic. Also the units that I submitted had two current interrupt devices between the battery and/or the Class 2 power source. Note that haptic stuff is typically hi-freq, so you are allowed more current per LCC limits. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of McInturff, Gary Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:39 AM To: Bill Owsley; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone Sounds like a touch screen to me, UL is used to those. The isolation I believe comes from the glass properties and the creepage and clearance distances between the closest point of user contact and the Haptics voltages. From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 9:42 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone you could try it like an old Safety engineer from long ago used to do. Get well grounded and grab the circuit - if he could let go... it was ok. Note he always brought along some help. Bill In the event of a national emergency, click on the following links to provide directions to your duly elected mis-representatives. http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml or... https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm if really desperate... http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Joe Randolph j...@randolph-telecom.com wrote: From: Joe Randolph j...@randolph-telecom.com Subject: Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone To: Emc-Pstc emc-p...@ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 9:18 PM Hello All: I have been asked to suggest a UL/EN 60950 compliance method for a low power, high voltage circuit that resides inside a cell phone. The circuit activates a piezo-electric transducer that physically vibrates the LCD display at about 300 Hz in 30 mS bursts to provide the sensation of a key click when the user touches a virtual key on the touch screen. Note that what the user contacts is the physical vibration, not the actual electrical signal that activates the piezo transducer. Following are some general characteristics of the driver circuit for the piezo transducer: * A non-isolated DC/DC converter powered from the 3.7V cell phone battery generates a 150 VDC driver supply that will deliver about 5 mA into a 2K ohm load. * The 300 Hz AC output of the driver will deliver about 4 mA RMS into a 2K ohm load. * Both the 150 VDC supply and the 300 Hz AC output share the same circuit reference node with the rest of the phone circuits. * This circuit reference node is normally floating with respect to earth ground, but it can become grounded through the USB port. I'm pretty familiar with 60950 and the standard compliance methods for the various circuits that appear in ITE equipment. However, this particular circuit does not fit neatly into any of the standard categories. A brute-force compliance analysis would classify this circuit as a hazardous circuit, and would require an isolation barrier between this circuit and any SELV circuits, such as the USB and headset ports on the phone. The voltage is too high to meet the definition of TNV-2, and the current output, while very small, is too high to qualify as a Limited Current Circuit. My sense is that it may be possible to show compliance by using single-fault testing to demonstrate that under fault conditions, all user-accessible points remain within SELV limits. In particular, I'm looking at the wording of clause 2.2.4, Connection of SELV Circuits to Other Circuits. I have never attempted to apply the method of 2.2.4 to a product, so I'm looking for feedback on whether the method is appropriate for this application. Any other suggestions or insights would be most welcome. It seems to me that this type of situation may come up in other applications that use high voltage at very low currents, such as CCFL backlights, EL backlights, and possibly camera flashes. Thanks, Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. 781-721-2848 (USA) j...@randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large
RE: [PSES] Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone
Sounds like a touch screen to me, UL is used to those. The isolation I believe comes from the glass properties and the creepage and clearance distances between the closest point of user contact and the Haptics voltages. From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 9:42 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone you could try it like an old Safety engineer from long ago used to do. Get well grounded and grab the circuit - if he could let go... it was ok. Note he always brought along some help. Bill In the event of a national emergency, click on the following links to provide directions to your duly elected mis-representatives. http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml or... https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm if really desperate... http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Joe Randolph j...@randolph-telecom.com wrote: From: Joe Randolph j...@randolph-telecom.com Subject: Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone To: Emc-Pstc emc-p...@ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 9:18 PM Hello All: I have been asked to suggest a UL/EN 60950 compliance method for a low power, high voltage circuit that resides inside a cell phone. The circuit activates a piezo-electric transducer that physically vibrates the LCD display at about 300 Hz in 30 mS bursts to provide the sensation of a key click when the user touches a virtual key on the touch screen. Note that what the user contacts is the physical vibration, not the actual electrical signal that activates the piezo transducer. Following are some general characteristics of the driver circuit for the piezo transducer: * A non-isolated DC/DC converter powered from the 3.7V cell phone battery generates a 150 VDC driver supply that will deliver about 5 mA into a 2K ohm load. * The 300 Hz AC output of the driver will deliver about 4 mA RMS into a 2K ohm load. * Both the 150 VDC supply and the 300 Hz AC output share the same circuit reference node with the rest of the phone circuits. * This circuit reference node is normally floating with respect to earth ground, but it can become grounded through the USB port. I'm pretty familiar with 60950 and the standard compliance methods for the various circuits that appear in ITE equipment. However, this particular circuit does not fit neatly into any of the standard categories. A brute-force compliance analysis would classify this circuit as a hazardous circuit, and would require an isolation barrier between this circuit and any SELV circuits, such as the USB and headset ports on the phone. The voltage is too high to meet the definition of TNV-2, and the current output, while very small, is too high to qualify as a Limited Current Circuit. My sense is that it may be possible to show compliance by using single-fault testing to demonstrate that under fault conditions, all user-accessible points remain within SELV limits. In particular, I'm looking at the wording of clause 2.2.4, Connection of SELV Circuits to Other Circuits. I have never attempted to apply the method of 2.2.4 to a product, so I'm looking for feedback on whether the method is appropriate for this application. Any other suggestions or insights would be most welcome. It seems to me that this type of situation may come up in other applications that use high voltage at very low currents, such as CCFL backlights, EL backlights, and possibly camera flashes. Thanks, Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. 781-721-2848 (USA) j...@randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com/ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable
Re: Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone
you could try it like an old Safety engineer from long ago used to do. Get well grounded and grab the circuit - if he could let go... it was ok. Note he always brought along some help. Bill In the event of a national emergency, click on the following links to provide directions to your duly elected mis-representatives. http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml or... https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm if really desperate... http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml --- On Tue, 12/14/10, Joe Randolph j...@randolph-telecom.com wrote: From: Joe Randolph j...@randolph-telecom.com Subject: Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone To: Emc-Pstc emc-p...@ieee.org Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 9:18 PM Hello All: I have been asked to suggest a UL/EN 60950 compliance method for a low power, high voltage circuit that resides inside a cell phone. The circuit activates a piezo-electric transducer that physically vibrates the LCD display at about 300 Hz in 30 mS bursts to provide the sensation of a key click when the user touches a virtual key on the touch screen. Note that what the user contacts is the physical vibration, not the actual electrical signal that activates the piezo transducer. Following are some general characteristics of the driver circuit for the piezo transducer: * A non-isolated DC/DC converter powered from the 3.7V cell phone battery generates a 150 VDC driver supply that will deliver about 5 mA into a 2K ohm load. * The 300 Hz AC output of the driver will deliver about 4 mA RMS into a 2K ohm load. * Both the 150 VDC supply and the 300 Hz AC output share the same circuit reference node with the rest of the phone circuits. * This circuit reference node is normally floating with respect to earth ground, but it can become grounded through the USB port. I'm pretty familiar with 60950 and the standard compliance methods for the various circuits that appear in ITE equipment. However, this particular circuit does not fit neatly into any of the standard categories. A brute-force compliance analysis would classify this circuit as a hazardous circuit, and would require an isolation barrier between this circuit and any SELV circuits, such as the USB and headset ports on the phone. The voltage is too high to meet the definition of TNV-2, and the current output, while very small, is too high to qualify as a Limited Current Circuit. My sense is that it may be possible to show compliance by using single-fault testing to demonstrate that under fault conditions, all user-accessible points remain within SELV limits. In particular, I'm looking at the wording of clause 2.2.4, Connection of SELV Circuits to Other Circuits. I have never attempted to apply the method of 2.2.4 to a product, so I'm looking for feedback on whether the method is appropriate for this application. Any other suggestions or insights would be most welcome. It seems to me that this type of situation may come up in other applications that use high voltage at very low currents, such as CCFL backlights, EL backlights, and possibly camera flashes. Thanks, Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. 781-721-2848 (USA) j...@randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com/ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files
Need help with safety compliance for a low power, 150 volt circuit inside a cell phone
Hello All: I have been asked to suggest a UL/EN 60950 compliance method for a low power, high voltage circuit that resides inside a cell phone. The circuit activates a piezo-electric transducer that physically vibrates the LCD display at about 300 Hz in 30 mS bursts to provide the sensation of a key click when the user touches a virtual key on the touch screen. Note that what the user contacts is the physical vibration, not the actual electrical signal that activates the piezo transducer. Following are some general characteristics of the driver circuit for the piezo transducer: * A non-isolated DC/DC converter powered from the 3.7V cell phone battery generates a 150 VDC driver supply that will deliver about 5 mA into a 2K ohm load. * The 300 Hz AC output of the driver will deliver about 4 mA RMS into a 2K ohm load. * Both the 150 VDC supply and the 300 Hz AC output share the same circuit reference node with the rest of the phone circuits. * This circuit reference node is normally floating with respect to earth ground, but it can become grounded through the USB port. I'm pretty familiar with 60950 and the standard compliance methods for the various circuits that appear in ITE equipment. However, this particular circuit does not fit neatly into any of the standard categories. A brute-force compliance analysis would classify this circuit as a hazardous circuit, and would require an isolation barrier between this circuit and any SELV circuits, such as the USB and headset ports on the phone. The voltage is too high to meet the definition of TNV-2, and the current output, while very small, is too high to qualify as a Limited Current Circuit. My sense is that it may be possible to show compliance by using single-fault testing to demonstrate that under fault conditions, all user-accessible points remain within SELV limits. In particular, I'm looking at the wording of clause 2.2.4, Connection of SELV Circuits to Other Circuits. I have never attempted to apply the method of 2.2.4 to a product, so I'm looking for feedback on whether the method is appropriate for this application. Any other suggestions or insights would be most welcome. It seems to me that this type of situation may come up in other applications that use high voltage at very low currents, such as CCFL backlights, EL backlights, and possibly camera flashes. Thanks, Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. 781-721-2848 (USA) j...@randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com/ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Help requested with Mexican modem standards
Hello Joe, Thank you very much for your excellent reply! I would be very grateful if you would look into the Caller ID question. Thanks again! Best Regards Charles Grasso Desk 303-706-5467 Cell: 303-204-2974 Chamber: 303-706-5144 From: Joe Randolph [mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 3:07 PM To: Grasso, Charles; 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: Re: Help requested with Mexican modem standards On 10/20/2010, Charles Grasso wrote: We are rsing the NORMA Oficial Mexicana NOM-151-SCT1-1999 for use with the Mexican phone system. I am looking for any other sources either with COFETEL or other organizations/facilities that have any input/understanding of the expectations/specifics of phone and modem interfacing with the Mexican PSTN. For instance, with the Modem Spec for the US, we tie as much of the requirements to FCC Part 68/TIA 968 but rely on a long list of TIA specs for anything not directly called out in TIA 968, for everything from Caller ID to Stutter Dial Tone to Ringing methods. Does anyone know of any Mexican standards that outline other modem functional specifications? Hi Charles: Mexico's NOM-151 is much more comprehensive than FCC Part 68, so there are fewer parameters left unspecified than in FCC Part 68. As a colleague of mine used to say, A block of wood will pass FCC Part 68. This is actually true because the requirements in Part 68 are harms-based. So, a product that meets FCC Part 68 provides little confidence that the user will be satisfied with the actual performance of the product. NOM-151 goes much further than Part 68, and includes several performance specifications. In addition to the Part-68-style specifications on impedance and signal power, NOM-151 specifies the following types of parameters that are not covered by Part 68: * Speech levels for handset telephony * DTMF dialing * Ringer response and ringer loudness * Radiated RF emissions * Susceptibility to radiated and conducted RF I think the only important function that is not covered by Nom-151 is caller ID. I *think* that most of Mexico's central offices use the Telcordia caller ID signalling method that is used in the USA, but I am not certain. I can look into this if you like. Regarding the extra requirements called out in NOM-151, most are fairly straightforward and can typically be passed with minor tweaking of a typical USA design. The two tests that a typical USA design will fail are: 1) Providing a very specific impedance to incoming ring signals 2) Passing the very rigorous tests for immunity to radiated and conducted RF I would recommend that you perform the above tests at a local lab here in the USA to confirm that you pass the NOM-151 tests before you submit for formal testing in Mexico. That step can save you a lot of time, money, and frustration. Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. 781-721-2848 (USA) j...@randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com/ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Help requested with Mexican modem standards
On 10/20/2010, Charles Grasso wrote: We are rsing the “NORMA Oficial Mexicana NOM-151-SCT1-1999” for use with the Mexican phone system. I am looking for any other sources either with COFETEL or other organizations/facilities that have any input/understanding of the expectations/specifics of phone and modem interfacing with the Mexican PSTN. For instance, with the Modem Spec for the US, we tie as much of the requirements to FCC Part 68/TIA 968 but rely on a long list of TIA specs for anything not directly called out in TIA 968, for everything from Caller ID to Stutter Dial Tone to Ringing methods. Does anyone know of any Mexican standards that outline other modem functional specifications? Hi Charles: Mexico's NOM-151 is much more comprehensive than FCC Part 68, so there are fewer parameters left unspecified than in FCC Part 68. As a colleague of mine used to say, A block of wood will pass FCC Part 68. This is actually true because the requirements in Part 68 are harms-based. So, a product that meets FCC Part 68 provides little confidence that the user will be satisfied with the actual performance of the product. NOM-151 goes much further than Part 68, and includes several performance specifications. In addition to the Part-68-style specifications on impedance and signal power, NOM-151 specifies the following types of parameters that are not covered by Part 68: * Speech levels for handset telephony * DTMF dialing * Ringer response and ringer loudness * Radiated RF emissions * Susceptibility to radiated and conducted RF I think the only important function that is not covered by Nom-151 is caller ID. I *think* that most of Mexico's central offices use the Telcordia caller ID signalling method that is used in the USA, but I am not certain. I can look into this if you like. Regarding the extra requirements called out in NOM-151, most are fairly straightforward and can typically be passed with minor tweaking of a typical USA design. The two tests that a typical USA design will fail are: 1) Providing a very specific impedance to incoming ring signals 2) Passing the very rigorous tests for immunity to radiated and conducted RF I would recommend that you perform the above tests at a local lab here in the USA to confirm that you pass the NOM-151 tests before you submit for formal testing in Mexico. That step can save you a lot of time, money, and frustration. Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. 781-721-2848 (USA) j...@randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com http://www.randolph-telecom.com/ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Help requested with Mexican modem standards
Hello all, We are rsing the “NORMA Oficial Mexicana NOM-151-SCT1-1999” for use with the Mexican phone system. I am looking for any other sources either with COFETEL or other organizations/facilities that have any input/understanding of the expectations/specifics of phone and modem interfacing with the Mexican PSTN. For instance, with the Modem Spec for the US, we tie as much of the requirements to FCC Part 68/TIA 968 but rely on a long list of TIA specs for anything not directly called out in TIA 968, for everything from Caller ID to Stutter Dial Tone to Ringing methods. Does anyone know of any Mexican standards that outline other modem functional specifications? Thanks! Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications (w) 303-706-5467 (c) 303-204-2974 (chamber) 303-706-5144 (t) 3032042...@vtext.com mailto:3032042...@vtext.com (e) charles.gra...@echostar.com mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com mailto:chasgra...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: FDA help
Kim, Try this FDA page: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfthirdparty/accredit.cfm Here is a higher level link concerning 510k that you may find useful: http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/Devic RegulationandGuidance/HowtoMarketYourDe ice/PremarketSubmissions/PremarketNotification510k/default.htm Good luck, Carl On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 4:05 AM, Kim Boll Jensen k...@bolls.dk wrote: Hi FDA has certified some consultants which can help with a 510k and at the same time speed up the FDA acceptance. Where do I find a list of these certified companies? I’m looking for one in EU close to Denmark. Best regards Mr. Kim Boll Jensen Bolls Rådgivning Ved Gadekæret 11F DK-3660 Stenløse Phone: +45 48 18 35 66 k...@bolls.dk www.bolls.dk http://www.bolls.dk/ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;emcp...@socal.rr.comGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
FDA help
Hi FDA has certified some consultants which can help with a 510k and at the same time speed up the FDA acceptance. Where do I find a list of these certified companies? I’m looking for one in EU close to Denmark. Best regards Mr. Kim Boll Jensen Bolls Rådgivning Ved Gadekæret 11F DK-3660 Stenløse Phone: +45 48 18 35 66 k...@bolls.dk www.bolls.dk - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Need help with EN60950 for power supply
I do not think such a source exists. In general: Products need to be ce-marked according to the regulations valid on: “date of putting on the market” OR, “date of putting into service” , if (1) is not applicable. “Parts” that have an intrinsic function to the end user (and bad luck: a power supply is explicitly mentioned in the guide to the LVD/EMC) are treated as apparatuses and thus need to be ce marked using the current version of the standard (from the list of harmonized standards), if they were not put on the EU market on an earlier date. That is so for all apparatuses. If the standard changes, production of the apparatus and approval should be updated. (to sell current stock, a substantial amount of time is allowed , in which old and new standards are both valid) It depends on your warehouse and the status of it, to determine if the part in it has been actually been “put on the Union market” . If you are the manufacturer, I’d say : No, it has not been put on the market yet so you need to comply with the new standards. If you are distributor, I’d say yes, these have been sold to a third party, so “put on the market”. The place of the warehouse (in or out the Union) will also influence that. In a normal production and sales scenario the transition time will resolve any conflicts. In a repair scenario, old edition parts has been kept on stock on purpose: The product to be repaired was approved using the 1st edition , will not be compliant anymore using the power supply approved to the 2nd edition (as it must be another part). In this approach you could service the apparatus exclusively with edition 1 parts, and edition 2 parts would annihilate the very ce-marking of the apparatus being serviced. That is the argument to be used here. As in-use equipment approval need not be updated to a newer standard I’d say this is a valid approach. I think there is no real problem here, but you need to make clear that you are importing and selling replacement parts , exclusively meant for repair, and not “old stock” that should have been updated. In case of questions be prepared to argue why, or even better, supply the “repair chain” with appropriate documents with each shipment. And finally , a ce marking under the LVD a part need not be approved using a safety standard at all. One may draw up a technical construction file proving it’s safety with an arbitrary collection of calculations and tests and use that as a basis for approval. The TCF may voluntarily be supported by a statement from a notified body. The word “arbitrary” means of course only that no reference to a standard edition need to be given, and the collection of test may include updated and not updated clauses from both standards. But that may be an expensive route. Hope this is clear, and that I did not forget anything. Gert Gremmen Ce-test, qualified testing bv Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens emcp...@aol.com Verzonden: donderdag 8 april 2010 19:18 Aan: emc-p...@ieee.org Onderwerp: Need help with EN60950 for power supply Hello Group, What is the effect of the 2nd Edition of EN60950 on replacement parts for systems which are no longer in production? Scenario A: A system is certified to the 1st Edition only and installed in an EU country. This particular system has a failure and needs a part replaced such as a power supply. The replacement parts are only qualified to the 1st edition also and are stored in warehouses, (in the EU or outside the EU). Are we allowed to ship and install these replacements? Is there a way for some one to get something little more solid then just opinion?. Maybe some official (I have not idea who or what) agency or gov response from EU. Or if there is any document regarding this type of topic in EU that he/you or I can reference. Regards, Tim Pierce - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted
Need help with EN60950 for power supply
Hello Group, What is the effect of the 2nd Edition of EN60950 on replacement parts for systems which are no longer in production? Scenario A: A system is certified to the 1st Edition only and installed in an EU country. This particular system has a failure and needs a part replaced such as a power supply. The replacement parts are only qualified to the 1st edition also and are stored in warehouses, (in the EU or outside the EU). Are we allowed to ship and install these replacements? Is there a way for some one to get something little more solid then just opinion?. Maybe some official (I have not idea who or what) agency or gov response from EU. Or if there is any document regarding this type of topic in EU that he/you or I can reference. Regards, Tim Pierce - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Please help me identify this symbol...........
Couple points: - The core symbol comes from ISO 7000. Other industry/product specific standards often pull it into their standards as is the case for Medical in ISO 15223-1 - The link below is an obsolete version of ISO 15223-1. The official standard was released in Apr-2007 and amended in Jun-2008. Be careful using obsolete draft standards. - In the medical industry, a black filled version of ISO 7000-2497, is identified in 5.12 of EN 980 (May-2008) as the manufacturer and described as: This symbol shall be accompanied by the name and the address of the manufacturer (the person placing the device on the market) This is not yet identified as an official ISO 7000 symbol and not sure if it is used in other industries other than medical. Nick From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of James, Chris Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:55 AM To: Andy Garcia; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Please help me identify this symbol... http://www.saludpreventiva.com/web/pdf/ SO%2015223-1%20S%EDmbolos%20-%20Requisitos%20generales.pdf Fig 5.13 on pdf page 12/21 or page 5 as typed on doc page. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Andy Garcia Sent: 14 January 2010 15:24 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Please help me identify this symbol... It's driving me crazy, but I can't find what this symbol stands for anywhere. Thanks for any help in advance. Here's a link to an image containing the symbol: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink Andy Garcia Staff Product Compliance Engineer Beckman Coulter, Inc. Miami, Fl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Please help me identify this symbol...........Got it!
Thanks everyone. I too, suspected that it was the factory ID. It's actually the date of manufacture. Andy Garcia Staff Product Compliance Engineer Beckman Coulter, Inc. Miami, Fl From: Andy Garcia arg...@yahoo.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 10:24:03 AM Subject: Please help me identify this symbol... It's driving me crazy, but I can't find what this symbol stands for anywhere. Thanks for any help in advance. Here's a link to an image containing the symbol: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink Andy Garcia Staff Product Compliance Engineer Beckman Coulter, Inc. Miami, Fl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Please help me identify this symbol...........
Andy - I suspect I am going to be embarrassed about this, but my initial reaction to the symbol was to say factory, so I think it's Place of Manufacture. Nothing to base it on, I am afraid! Regards, Mark -- Mark Hone, HESS Manager Wellman Defence Limited Williams Road Portsmouth, Hampshire PO3 5FP, ENGLAND Tel: +44 (0)23 9266 4911 Tel: +44 (0)23 9262 9239 (Direct) Fax: +44 (0)23 9269 7864 Mobile: +44 (0)7919 047775 Andy Garcia arg...@yahoo.com 14/01/10 15:24:03 It's driving me crazy, but I can't find what this symbol stands for anywhere. Thanks for any help in advance. Here's a link to an image containing the symbol: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink Andy Garcia Staff Product Compliance Engineer Beckman Coulter, Inc. Miami, Fl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Please help me identify this symbol...........
http://www.saludpreventiva.com/web/pdf/ SO%2015223-1%20S%EDmbolos%20-%20Requisitos%20generales.pdf Fig 5.13 on pdf page 12/21 or page 5 as typed on doc page. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Andy Garcia Sent: 14 January 2010 15:24 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Please help me identify this symbol... It's driving me crazy, but I can't find what this symbol stands for anywhere. Thanks for any help in advance. Here's a link to an image containing the symbol: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink Andy Garcia Staff Product Compliance Engineer Beckman Coulter, Inc. Miami, Fl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Please help me identify this symbol...........
ISO 7000-2497 - Date of Manufacture From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Wordley, Chris Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:31 AM To: Andy Garcia; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Please help me identify this symbol... Hi Andy I don't know, but it looks like a drawing of a factory i.e. indication of the actual factory in which the product was manufactured, for those products made in more than one. Chris From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Andy Garcia Sent: 14 January 2010 15:24 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Please help me identify this symbol... It's driving me crazy, but I can't find what this symbol stands for anywhere. Thanks for any help in advance. Here's a link to an image containing the symbol: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink Andy Garcia Staff Product Compliance Engineer Beckman Coulter, Inc. Miami, Fl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: Please help me identify this symbol...........
Hi Andy I don't know, but it looks like a drawing of a factory i.e. indication of the actual factory in which the product was manufactured, for those products made in more than one. Chris From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Andy Garcia Sent: 14 January 2010 15:24 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Please help me identify this symbol... It's driving me crazy, but I can't find what this symbol stands for anywhere. Thanks for any help in advance. Here's a link to an image containing the symbol: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink Andy Garcia Staff Product Compliance Engineer Beckman Coulter, Inc. Miami, Fl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
RE: [PSES] Please help me identify this symbol...........
The subject symbol mean: Manufacturer; manufacturing location; also can be associated with the manufacturing year. Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE Q.A Certification Manager I.T.L (Product Testing) Ltd. Convener IEC/TC62/SC62A/WG17 1 Bat Sheva St., POB 87 Lod 71100, Israel V: +972-(0)8-9153100 Ext.203 F: +972-(0)8-9153101 M: +972-(0)54-7245794 st...@itl.co.il http://www.itl.co.il From: Andy Garcia [mailto:arg...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 5:24 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Please help me identify this symbol... It's driving me crazy, but I can't find what this symbol stands for anywhere. Thanks for any help in advance. Here's a link to an image containing the symbol: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink Andy Garcia Staff Product Compliance Engineer Beckman Coulter, Inc. Miami, Fl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Please help me identify this symbol...........
It's driving me crazy, but I can't find what this symbol stands for anywhere. Thanks for any help in advance. Here's a link to an image containing the symbol: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/J1eLaE9kMULRDzdkbIppzA?feat=directlink Andy Garcia Staff Product Compliance Engineer Beckman Coulter, Inc. Miami, Fl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
EMC Testing request for help
Dear Group, We have a semi-anechoic chamber that is used for radiated immunity tests (80 MHz to 1 GHz @ 10 V/m, 1 to 2 GHz @ 3 V/m, 2 to 3 GHz @ 1 V/m). We drive the test equipment using Teseq Compliance 3 software. Are there any Group Members out there in the UK who could test our chamber for us in accordance with the requirements of EN 61000-4-3, Clause 6.2 Calibration of field and provide us with a guarantee of compliance? Alternatively, could any members point us in the direction of someone who could? Many thanks in anticipation of your help. Ian Unwin Servomex Group Limited, Jarvis Brook, Crowborough, East Sussex, TN6 3FB, England. e-mail: i...@servomex.com Company Registered in England: No.2170458 VAT No.: GB 522 6077 63 This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs and contains information from Servomex which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify us immediately. Servomex may, as part of its normal activities, monitor, edit or censor the content of any information and software, transmitted through, or stored on, its facilities. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@socal.rr.com Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: Need help identifying symbol
Underwriters Laboratories has a directory of trademarks available at the certifications directory. http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/glocids.html You have to look through a lot of pages of images. The logos are sorted alphabetically by the names of the owner companies. Although you may likely find the logo in question under the R section, it may appear in a different section if the company name does not start with R. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion/MGE http://www.apc.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC-MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC-MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. Grasso, Charles Charles.Grasso@e chostar.com To Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 10/12/2007 02:56 Need help identifying symbol PM Hi folks! I have run across a symbol on an approvals label that I need help with. The symbol is a white letter R on a black background written with a sort of swooping style (sorry about the description!) Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications Corp. Tel: 303-706-5467 Fax: 303-799-6222 Cell: 303-204-2974 Pager/Short Message: 3032042...@vtext.com Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This e-mail has been scanned by MCI Managed Email Content Service, using Skeptic(tm) technology powered by MessageLabs. For more information on MCI's Managed Email Content Service, visit http://www.mci.com. __
RE: Need help identifying symbol
Not the colour you say but...Lloyds Register QA ?? See logo at URL: http://www.lrqa.co.uk/ Regards, Chris _ From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grasso, Charles Sent: 12 October 2007 20:56 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Need help identifying symbol Hi folks! I have run across a symbol on an approvals label that I need help with. The symbol is a white letter R on a black background written with a sort of swooping style (sorry about the description!) Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications Corp. Tel: 303-706-5467 Fax: 303-799-6222 Cell: 303-204-2974 Pager/Short Message: 3032042...@vtext.com BLOCKED::mailto:3032042...@vtext.com Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com __ This e-mail has been scanned by MCI Managed Email Content Service, using Skeptic(tm) technology powered by MessageLabs. For more information on MCI's Managed Email Content Service, visit http://www.mci.com. __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc _ This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based on this message is strictly prohibited. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Need help identifying symbol
In message f38c1e8a75404347a126608a8f48af550748b...@mer2-excha2.echostar.com, dated Fri, 12 Oct 2007, Grasso, Charles charles.gra...@echostar.com writes: The symbol is a white letter R on a black background written with a sort of swooping style (sorry about the description!) Can you put it on a web page and give us the URL, please? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This e-mail has been scanned by MCI Managed Email Content Service, using Skeptic(tm) technology powered by MessageLabs. For more information on MCI's Managed Email Content Service, visit http://www.mci.com. __
Need help identifying symbol
Hi folks! I have run across a symbol on an approvals label that I need help with. The symbol is a white letter R on a black background written with a sort of swooping style (sorry about the description!) Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications Corp. Tel: 303-706-5467 Fax: 303-799-6222 Cell: 303-204-2974 Pager/Short Message: 3032042...@vtext.com BLOCKED::mailto:3032042...@vtext.com Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com __ This e-mail has been scanned by MCI Managed Email Content Service, using Skeptic(tm) technology powered by MessageLabs. For more information on MCI's Managed Email Content Service, visit http://www.mci.com. __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: You can still telephone for help!
David, you should have paid THAT one with Canadian Tire money! Cortland KA5S - Original Message - From: Gelfand, David mailto:david.gelf...@ca.kontron.com To: emc-pstc mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: 5/24/2007 8:36:07 AM Subject: RE: You can still telephone for help! On a similar note, my car would not always start. Fearing the worst I go to my dealer. Turns out that my quick-pay pass (you poke it at the gas pump and it automatically charges your credit card) interferes with the car's anti-theft system. It cost me $50 to have my mechanic remove the pay pass from my keychain... David. __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: You can still telephone for help!
On a similar note, my car would not always start. Fearing the worst I go to my dealer. Turns out that my quick-pay pass (you poke it at the gas pump and it automatically charges your credit card) interferes with the car's anti-theft system. It cost me $50 to have my mechanic remove the pay pass from my keychain... David. David Gelfand Conformity Specialist Kontron Canada Inc. 616 Curé Boivin Boisbriand QC Canada J7G 2A7 450 437 5682 x2449 From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Cortland Richmond Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 8:19 PM To: emc-pstc Subject: You can still telephone for help! Some Nissan electronic key signals erased by cell phones May 23, 2007 ASSOCIATED PRESS NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Cell phones rub some of Nissan's intelligent keys the wrong way, the automaker is warning car owners. Complaints about some cell phones erasing Nissan's I-keys for the 2007 Altima sedan and 2007 Infiniti G35 have the automaker advising customers to keep cell phones and the plastic fobs containing the starters at least 1 inch apart at all times. A statement released Wednesday by Nissan North America Inc. says some cell phones, if allowed to touch the I-Key while sending or receiving a call, may alter it's electronic code. When this happens the I-Key will not start the vehicle and cannot be reprogrammed, the statement said. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070523/BUSINESS01/70523063 Cortland Richmond k...@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
You can still telephone for help!
Some Nissan electronic key signals erased by cell phones May 23, 2007 ASSOCIATED PRESS NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Cell phones rub some of Nissan's intelligent keys the wrong way, the automaker is warning car owners. Complaints about some cell phones erasing Nissan's I-keys for the 2007 Altima sedan and 2007 Infiniti G35 have the automaker advising customers to keep cell phones and the plastic fobs containing the starters at least 1 inch apart at all times. A statement released Wednesday by Nissan North America Inc. says some cell phones, if allowed to touch the I-Key while sending or receiving a call, may alter it's electronic code. When this happens the I-Key will not start the vehicle and cannot be reprogrammed, the statement said. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070523/BUSINESS01/70523063 Cortland Richmond k...@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Need some help on Ethernet emissions testing
Yup, since this accessory gear is not part of the test, only used to provide the communications, find the quietest one you can for a typical expected environment that your EUT is expected to go in. I have also in a debug mode, used a wrap plug on the end and run the diagnostics to see what happens. Or put a matching EUT on the outside to serve as the ethernet accessory gear, two of that same one each end of the net, might be illuminating in a couple of senses of the word. - Bill emcp...@aol.com wrote: Hi Charles, I would use a Netgear switch. They seem to be the best for emissions. The newer retail ones should be able to pass class B. Routers and switches are known to cause EMI problems even outside the test site. You want to best simulate the environment your product will be used. Connecting directly to a PC would be legal, but would it simulate the environment where your product is used? I recommend trying a few different routers/switches to find the one that works the best for you. Thanks, Tim _ See what's free at AOL.com http://www.aol.com/?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503 . - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc _ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now http://us.r .yahoo.com/evt=48223/*http://get.games. ahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. - --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: Need some help on Ethernet emissions testing
Hi Charles, I would use a Netgear switch. They seem to be the best for emissions. The newer retail ones should be able to pass class B. Routers and switches are known to cause EMI problems even outside the test site. You want to best simulate the environment your product will be used. Connecting directly to a PC would be legal, but would it simulate the environment where your product is used? I recommend trying a few different routers/switches to find the one that works the best for you. Thanks, Tim _ See what's free at AOL.com http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503 . __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Need some help on Ethernet emissions testing
Hi folks, I have some a question on Ethernet emissions testing that I would appreciate some help with. Q. Is there a “preferred” active load (i.e router/PC/switch/hub) that I can use for testing.? I can vastly change my emissions profile depending on the device I pick. [Please note that I do add ferrites and shield the load out side of the test environment] Thanks!! Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications Corp. Tel: 303-706-5467 Fax: 303-799-6222 Cell: 303-204-2974 Pager/Short Message: 3032042...@vtext.com BLOCKED::mailto:3032042...@vtext.com Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Thanks for the help
I'll guess that most of us would, we might be able to improve our own chambers. Thanks Grasso, Charles charles.gra...@echostar.com wrote: Hi Ken – I ‘d appreciate a summary of what worked. !! Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications Corp. Tel: 303-706-5467 Fax: 303-799-6222 Cell: 303-204-2974 Pager/Short Message: 3032042...@vtext.com blocked::mailto:3032042...@vtext.com Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com _ From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of khcmacgr...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:50 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Thanks for the help Thanks! I greatly appreciate all the helpful hints I got regarding field uniformity. Thanks to your suggestions and I now have a 3 meter chamber that meets the 10V/m field uniformity requirement. Thanks again! Ken MacGrath _ Core Compliance Testing Services, LLC 79 River Road (Route 3A) Hudson, NH 03051 Business: (603)889-5545 Cell: (603) 892-0620 Web: www.corecompliancetesting.com _ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com/?ncid=AOLAOF0002000437 AOL.com. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc _ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47093/*http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 to see what's on, when. - --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc
RE: Thanks for the help
Hi Ken – I ‘d appreciate a summary of what worked. !! Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications Corp. Tel: 303-706-5467 Fax: 303-799-6222 Cell: 303-204-2974 Pager/Short Message: 3032042...@vtext.com BLOCKED::mailto:3032042...@vtext.com Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com _ From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of khcmacgr...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:50 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Thanks for the help Thanks! I greatly appreciate all the helpful hints I got regarding field uniformity. Thanks to your suggestions and I now have a 3 meter chamber that meets the 10V/m field uniformity requirement. Thanks again! Ken MacGrath _ Core Compliance Testing Services, LLC 79 River Road (Route 3A) Hudson, NH 03051 Business: (603)889-5545 Cell: (603) 892-0620 Web: www.corecompliancetesting.com _ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000437 AOL.com. __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Thanks for the help
Thanks! I greatly appreciate all the helpful hints I got regarding field uniformity. Thanks to your suggestions and I now have a 3 meter chamber that meets the 10V/m field uniformity requirement. Thanks again! Ken MacGrath _ Core Compliance Testing Services, LLC 79 River Road (Route 3A) Hudson, NH 03051 Business: (603)889-5545 Cell: (603) 892-0620 Web: www.corecompliancetesting.com _ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000437 AOL.com. __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Need help with field uniformity @ 10V/m
Ken, It would be helpful to look at the power required at all the probe positions. Sometimes you can deduce where reflections are occuring from the probe values, ie: are the nodes/nulls row or column dependent. FWIW, I never use the constant field method, instead I use the constant power method. The reason is that you will have nulls occur at some probe positions, which will make it impossible to level at the desired field especially if you have a marginal setup (amp power, antenna gain or beamwidth, etc). Using the constant power method, you will get an idea of field uniformity, and can determine which probe positions will be discarded (probably the ones in a null). After the calibration file is created (levels adjusted to bring 12 points into the required test level) you must determine if the system is still linear and meets the harmonic requirement. From my experience, 100w is marginal for 10v/m (18v/m calibration) at 3m distance and 80MHz. If you are having problems above 650 MHz, this is most likely due to cable losses. Have you tried changing the antenna height? Bob Richards, NCT khcmacgr...@aol.com wrote: Hello, I'm trying to qualify my 3 meter chamber for field uniformity at 10 V/m and could use some help. I was able to get 18V/m at all 16 points of the grid (only need 12) with the antenna in the vertical position, but couldn't do it when the antenna was switched to the horizontal position. I moved the floor patch all over the chamber, moved the antenna and probe to different areas, but still haven't found just the right combination. Here are the some of the details: Problem frequency: It shifts but typically 80MHz and above 650 MHz It seems we can correct one but not both. Chamber dimension: 16' x 24' x 10' Lining: Mix of ferrite tile and 24 cones Placement of lining: 14' x 10' ferrite tile patch centered on each side wall 10' x 10' ferrite tile patch on wall behind isotropic probe (EUT end) 8' x 14' ferrite tile patch on ceiling 24 cones on wall behind antenna Mostly 24 cones, but some ferrite tile in all remaining wall surfaces. Floor Patch: Thirty 2' x 2' ferrite tiles shuffled in countless configurations. Test Distance: 2.5 meters (It failed at 3 meters so I moved the antenna in to 2.5. It passed with the antenna in the vertical position, but failed in horizontal position.) Amplifier: 100W amplifier outside the chamber Floor patch: Thirty 2' x 2' ferrite tiles Thanks! Ken - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: Need help with field uniformity @ 10V/m
Ever play pool/billards ?? Missed a corner shot and watched the ball come back close to you?? The most overlooked reflection in a chamber is the corner one, probably because it makes your head hurt trying to visualize it. ps. the three sided corner is called a retro-reflector and there are 8 in the chamber. It is commonly used to as a radar target for ranging and identifying boats and other objects. And found in every light reflector on cars and road markers. By corner I mean both the three and two sided corners where the various walls meet. So treat the corners with special care - load them up. Remember, you heard it here first. - Bill khcmacgr...@aol.com wrote: Hello, I'm trying to qualify my 3 meter chamber for field uniformity at 10 V/m and could use some help. I was able to get 18V/m at all 16 points of the grid (only need 12) with the antenna in the vertical position, but couldn't do it when the antenna was switched to the horizontal position. I moved the floor patch all over the chamber, moved the antenna and probe to different areas, but still haven't found just the right combination. Here are the some of the details: Problem frequency: It shifts but typically 80MHz and above 650 MHz It seems we can correct one but not both. Chamber dimension: 16' x 24' x 10' Lining: Mix of ferrite tile and 24 cones Placement of lining: 14' x 10' ferrite tile patch centered on each side wall 10' x 10' ferrite tile patch on wall behind isotropic probe (EUT end) 8' x 14' ferrite tile patch on ceiling 24 cones on wall behind antenna Mostly 24 cones, but some ferrite tile in all remaining wall surfaces. Floor Patch: Thirty 2' x 2' ferrite tiles shuffled in countless configurations. Test Distance: 2.5 meters (It failed at 3 meters so I moved the antenna in to 2.5. It passed with the antenna in the vertical position, but failed in horizontal position.) Amplifier: 100W amplifier outside the chamber Floor patch: Thirty 2' x 2' ferrite tiles Thanks! Ken _ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/ 615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com AOL.com. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc _ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/?fr=oni_on_mail#news with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/?fr=oni_on_mail#news - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Need help with field uniformity @ 10V/m
Hello, I'm trying to qualify my 3 meter chamber for field uniformity at 10 V/m and could use some help. I was able to get 18V/m at all 16 points of the grid (only need 12) with the antenna in the vertical position, but couldn't do it when the antenna was switched to the horizontal position. I moved the floor patch all over the chamber, moved the antenna and probe to different areas, but still haven't found just the right combination. Here are the some of the details: Problem frequency: It shifts but typically 80MHz and above 650 MHz It seems we can correct one but not both. Chamber dimension: 16' x 24' x 10' Lining: Mix of ferrite tile and 24 cones Placement of lining: 14' x 10' ferrite tile patch centered on each side wall 10' x 10' ferrite tile patch on wall behind isotropic probe (EUT end) 8' x 14' ferrite tile patch on ceiling 24 cones on wall behind antenna Mostly 24 cones, but some ferrite tile in all remaining wall surfaces. Floor Patch: Thirty 2' x 2' ferrite tiles shuffled in countless configurations. Test Distance: 2.5 meters (It failed at 3 meters so I moved the antenna in to 2.5. It passed with the antenna in the vertical position, but failed in horizontal position.) Amplifier: 100W amplifier outside the chamber Floor patch: Thirty 2' x 2' ferrite tiles Thanks! Ken _ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/ 615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com AOL.com. __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: FCC Rules interpretation - Help requested.
FCC Part 15 contains the basic rules to apply for Verification devices/systems. The test procedures to be followed are contained in ANSI C63.4: 2003, and contain drawings and instructions for setup and testing of the EUT, including systems. In fact, ANSI C63 defines an EUT as a device or system... Bill From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grasso, Charles Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:52 AM To: emc-pstc Subject: FCC Rules interpretation - Help requested. Hello, I have a question on the system testing requirements for devices that are Verified under the FCC authorization rules and marketed as a system. Can someone point me to the relevant FCC rules? I have looked and looked and cannot seem to find it. Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications Corp. Tel: 303-706-5467 Fax: 303-799-6222 Cell: 303-204-2974 Pager/Short Message: 3032042...@vtext.com Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: FCC Rules interpretation - Help requested.
Charles, If I understand your question correctly: Look at 15.31 paragraphs b), h) and i) a) 3) References ANSI C63.4 for the test procedure which specifies testing with all applicable components/accessories h) indicates that composites are tested as a system i) indicates that accessories will be attached. j) and k) may be relevant for you as well. Hope that helps. Michael Peters From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Grasso, Charles Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 11:52 AM To: emc-pstc Subject: FCC Rules interpretation - Help requested. Hello, I have a question on the system testing requirements for devices that are Verified under the FCC authorization rules and marketed as a system. Can someone point me to the relevant FCC rules? I have looked and looked and cannot seem to find it. Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications Corp. Tel: 303-706-5467 Fax: 303-799-6222 Cell: 303-204-2974 Pager/Short Message: 3032042...@vtext.com Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc The information transmitted in this message is confidential and may be privileged. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Analogic Corporation immediately - by replying to this message or by sending an email to deliveryerr...@analogic.com - and destroy all copies of this information, including any attachments, without reading or disclosing them. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
FCC Rules interpretation - Help requested.
Hello, I have a question on the system testing requirements for devices that are Verified under the FCC authorization rules and marketed as a system. Can someone point me to the relevant FCC rules? I have looked and looked and cannot seem to find it. Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications Corp. Tel: 303-706-5467 Fax: 303-799-6222 Cell: 303-204-2974 Pager/Short Message: 3032042...@vtext.com Email: charles.gra...@echostar.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
THANKS Re: shorting the mains prohibited - Help
By the way, I want to thank everyone for their input on my posting under the above subject several weeks ago. Your input was a great help in organizing my response to the proposed idea. The interest in the proposal appears to have gone to zero. Thanks again, Gregory H. McClure Lexmark Product Safety 859 232 3240 office 859 232 6882 fax Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachment, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender, by e-mail, and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: shorting the mains prohibited - Help
Hi Greg: The issue is not that of shorting the mains. Rather, the issue is the deliberate operation of a fuse by creating a short-circuit. As a general rule, a fuse operates in the event of a circuit fault. A fuse is not intended to operate under normal operating conditions. In anticipating this overtemperature condition, the circuit is essentially considering such a situation to be a normal condition, not a fault condition. Kinda like a paper jam in a copier. A circuit design should not deliberately create a fault so as to operate a fuse. In doing so, the fuse is now being called upon to operate under a normal operating condition because the introduction of a short-circuit in this case is taken as a normal condition by the circuit. In addition, the same fuse is called upon to operate in the event of a fault. The problem now becomes one of selecting a single fuse value (rating) that will operate both under the deliberate fault and under any other unanticipated fault. Since the circuit can detect the overtemperature condition, then a circuit can easily be designed to shut off power through the use of a triac or similar device. This presumes the system can be re-set, and the overtemperature condition is not a permanent failure. Better still, use a thermal cutout instead of the fuse. A thermal cutout is a true safeguard and is intended for this sort of situation. Best regards, Rich From: gmccl...@lexmark.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Thursday, October 5, 2006 6:22 pm Subject: shorting the mains prohibited - Help To: emc-p...@ieee.org Gentlemen, I need your collective memory. I have an engineer that wishes to design a protection mechanism to apply a short circuit across the mains in order to open a protection device upstream to stop an over-heating fault. The protection device would be in the product, we are not talking about depending on the protection in the service panel. I will not let them go there. I remember somewhere in the past that one of the standards, or perhaps a country deviation, specifically forbid shorting the mains as a means of protection but I cannot find it. I think it is from the era when we were using IEC 380 or 435 and UL 478 but I am not sure. Can someone out there point me to the standard and clause? or perhaps the deviation or an OSM decision? I am looking for all of the arguments against this practice I can pull together because I do not feel it is sound. It is one thing to crowbar the output of a power supply to protect an expensive logic board from a power supply over-voltage failure. It is quite another to short the mains input. Many thanks, Gregory H. McClure Lexmark Product Safety 859 232 3240 office 859 232 6882 fax Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachment, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender, by e-mail, and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: shorting the mains prohibited - Help
Ghery: This was very common construction in small transformers during the 70's and later. I don't know how much it is still practiced. Since this is to protect a heating device I expect the currents needing control are much higher as opposed to the cross primary protection in a 15W transformer with very small gage wires. Leo Heiland Intel Corp. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Pettit, Ghery Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 8:33 AM To: gmccl...@lexmark.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: shorting the mains prohibited - Help I've seen this done once in a consumer electronics device. When I was in college (a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away) I worked for a time in a radio/TV repair shop. We had a piece of equipment come in that was dead. It turned out that the manufacturer had designed the primary on the power transformer so that if an overload occurred the excess current would heat the undersized wires and melt the insulation (thin) between them, thus shorting the mains wires and ensuring that the fuse in the product would blow. Of course, this necessitated replacing the transformer, as well as fixing the original cause of the problem. I DO NOT recommend this design. Ghery S. Pettit Intel Corporation From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of gmccl...@lexmark.com Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:25 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: shorting the mains prohibited - Help Gentlemen, I need your collective memory. I have an engineer that wishes to design a protection mechanism to apply a short circuit across the mains in order to open a protection device upstream to stop an over-heating fault. The protection device would be in the product, we are not talking about depending on the protection in the service panel. I will not let them go there. I remember somewhere in the past that one of the standards, or perhaps a country deviation, specifically forbid shorting the mains as a means of protection but I cannot find it. I think it is from the era when we were using IEC 380 or 435 and UL 478 but I am not sure. Can someone out there point me to the standard and clause? or perhaps the deviation or an OSM decision? I am looking for all of the arguments against this practice I can pull together because I do not feel it is sound. It is one thing to crowbar the output of a power supply to protect an expensive logic board from a power supply over-voltage failure. It is quite another to short the mains input. Many thanks, Gregory H. McClure Lexmark Product Safety 859 232 3240 office 859 232 6882 fax Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachment, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender, by e-mail, and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p
Re: shorting the mains prohibited - Help
In message f50a4280b6033741b1dd2b4e902258b1024de...@orsmsx411.amr.corp.intel.com, dated Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Pettit, Ghery ghery.pet...@intel.com writes It turned out that the manufacturer had designed the primary on the power transformer so that if an overload occurred the excess current would heat the undersized wires and melt the insulation (thin) between them, thus shorting the mains wires and ensuring that the fuse in the product would blow. Of course, this necessitated replacing the transformer, as well as fixing the original cause of the problem. I DO NOT recommend this design. Nearly that technique is used in many wall-wart mains transformers. The primary wire has a special coating which causes the winding to go quietly open-circuit if it gets too hot. There is no separate thermal fuse. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Swine wave - a waveform whose spectrum is exceptionally difficult to calculate. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: shorting the mains prohibited - Help
I've seen this done once in a consumer electronics device. When I was in college (a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away) I worked for a time in a radio/TV repair shop. We had a piece of equipment come in that was dead. It turned out that the manufacturer had designed the primary on the power transformer so that if an overload occurred the excess current would heat the undersized wires and melt the insulation (thin) between them, thus shorting the mains wires and ensuring that the fuse in the product would blow. Of course, this necessitated replacing the transformer, as well as fixing the original cause of the problem. I DO NOT recommend this design. Ghery S. Pettit Intel Corporation From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of gmccl...@lexmark.com Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:25 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: shorting the mains prohibited - Help Gentlemen, I need your collective memory. I have an engineer that wishes to design a protection mechanism to apply a short circuit across the mains in order to open a protection device upstream to stop an over-heating fault. The protection device would be in the product, we are not talking about depending on the protection in the service panel. I will not let them go there. I remember somewhere in the past that one of the standards, or perhaps a country deviation, specifically forbid shorting the mains as a means of protection but I cannot find it. I think it is from the era when we were using IEC 380 or 435 and UL 478 but I am not sure. Can someone out there point me to the standard and clause? or perhaps the deviation or an OSM decision? I am looking for all of the arguments against this practice I can pull together because I do not feel it is sound. It is one thing to crowbar the output of a power supply to protect an expensive logic board from a power supply over-voltage failure. It is quite another to short the mains input. Many thanks, Gregory H. McClure Lexmark Product Safety 859 232 3240 office 859 232 6882 fax Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachment, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender, by e-mail, and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: shorting the mains prohibited - Help
In message 45256ed0.8010...@itesafety.com, dated Thu, 5 Oct 2006, Robert Johnson john...@itesafety.com writes Since this shutdown method might be considered normal operation, have you considered the consequences of rating your wiring, switches, thermal contactor etc. for the short circuit current capacity? These issues have to be taken into account anyway, because a mains short-circuit is a foreseeable single-fault condition. The short-circuit current SHOULD flow only until the primary protection device opens, of course. This is normally of the order of tens of milliseconds. The prospective short-circuit current may be estimated from the supply impedance data in IEC 60725. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Swine wave - a waveform whose spectrum is exceptionally difficult to calculate. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: shorting the mains prohibited - Help
Since this shutdown method might be considered normal operation, have you considered the consequences of rating your wiring, switches, thermal contactor etc. for the short circuit current capacity? A non-autoreset thermal switch (thermal fuse) would be a much better solution. Bob Johnson ITE Safety Kunde, Brian wrote: Instead of shorting the AC Mains, have you considered using a breaker with a trip coil? We used one in a product where as a safety measure, if something bad happened, we wanted to cut power to the entire machine. All we had to do is short out a set of contacts which powered up the trip coil to trip the mains breaker and all power was shut down. Going a different way, in my shop class in High School there were these boxes with big red buttons hanging from cords from the ceiling all over the shop. If you pushed any one of the red buttons, the power to the entire shop would go off shutting down all the machines. Someone said that when you pushed the red buttons, that it shorted out the AC and popped the breaker for the entire room. Is that really how that was done? Yet another story from my past. I know an electrician who if he is going to work on a receptacle, he just takes a piece of wire and shoves it in the receptacle to deliberately pop the circuit breaker. He says it is faster than switching the breakers off and on one at a time till you find the right one. That can't be good for the breaker, right? The other Brian. -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Don Gies Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 3:17 PM To: gmccl...@lexmark.com; EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: RE: shorting the mains prohibited - Help Gregory, You should recommend thermal overtemp cutouts in each power lead (if AC mains) that open upon overtemp rather than closing upon overtemp, with reference to IEC 60950-1, Clause 4.3.7 (Heating elements in earthed equipment). Shorting the mains is probably going to annoy someone, if not your safety certification engineer. We once did have a small dc secondary heater circuit with an overtemp device that closed upon overtemp. Doing so shorted out the dc supply, thereby opening a 7 A fuse in front of the overtemp device. I don't remember exactly the reason for this (maybe we couldn't find a Recognized dc thermostat that opened), but the design was OK'ed by our NRTL engineer. Regards, Don Gies, N.C.E Senior Product Compliance Engineer Lucent Technologies Holmdel, NJ 07733 USA -Original Message- From: Gregory H. McClure [mailto:gmccl...@lexmark.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:25 PM To: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: shorting the mains prohibited - Help Gentlemen, I need your collective memory. I have an engineer that wishes to design a protection mechanism to apply a short circuit across the mains in order to open a protection device upstream to stop an over-heating fault. The protection device would be in the product, we are not talking about depending on the protection in the service panel. I will not let them go there. I remember somewhere in the past that one of the standards, or perhaps a country deviation, specifically forbid shorting the mains as a means of protection but I cannot find it. I think it is from the era when we were using IEC 380 or 435 and UL 478 but I am not sure. Can someone out there point me to the standard and clause? or perhaps the deviation or an OSM decision? I am looking for all of the arguments against this practice I can pull together because I do not feel it is sound. It is one thing to crowbar the output of a power supply to protect an expensive logic board from a power supply over-voltage failure. It is quite another to short the mains input. Many thanks, Gregory H. McClure Lexmark Product Safety 859 232 3240 office 859 232 6882 fax Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachment, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender, by e-mail, and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc
Re: shorting the mains prohibited - Help
Note that the code permits EPO switches to be implemented with an orderly shutdown process. The NFPA 50 (NEC) clause 685 is used. It requires extra process documentation and approval, but you can do such things as delay shutdown during software save routines, delay automatic shutdown to permit abort action, etc. It also can work against intentional mischief. These steps can become crucial with some high reliability systems and chemical process operations. Bob Johnson ITE Safety ted.eck...@apcc.com wrote: You are referring to a Shunt Trip circuit breaker. These circuit breakers have an additional mechanism that will trip the actuator. The shunt trip mechanism is activated by a switch closure. It does not degrade the normal trip mechanism or contacts of the circuit breaker. The shunt trip circuit breakers are a preferred method for remotely triggering a circuit breaker. It is much safer than shorting the phases. The red buttons are commonly known as Emergency Power Off (EPO) buttons and they are required by many electrical codes for specified applications. They are typically used where there are life safety issues. It allows you to shut down all of the equipment in an area making it safe for emergency responders. If you were a fireman, would you want to enter a room with hazardous voltages and hazardous moving machinery? Many people hate the EPO buttons because they provide a single point of failure. An accidental activation of the EPO can shut down your equipment, which can be expensive for large manufacturing facilities or computer data centers. In these cases, you want an EPO that is designed to be easy to activate in an emergency and hard to activate by accident. Manufacturing locations typically use a version that shuts down just one piece of machinery, known as an Emergency Stop, or E-Stop button. These buttons need to be located such that the operator can easily reach them, especially if the operator becomes entangled in the machinery. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion Corporation The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC nor representing APC's official position on any matter. Kunde, Brian brian_kunde@leco tc.comTo Sent by: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 10/05/2006 02:46 RE: shorting the mains prohibited - PMHelp Instead of shorting the AC Mains, have you considered using a breaker with a trip coil? We used one in a product where as a safety measure, if something bad happened, we wanted to cut power to the entire machine. All we had to do is short out a set of contacts which powered up the trip coil to trip the mains breaker and all power was shut down. Going a different way, in my shop class in High School there were these boxes with big red buttons hanging from cords from the ceiling all over the shop. If you pushed any one of the red buttons, the power to the entire shop would go off shutting down all the machines. Someone said that when you pushed the red buttons, that it shorted out the AC and popped the breaker for the entire room. Is that really how that was done? Yet another story from my past. I know an electrician who if he is going to work on a receptacle, he just takes a piece of wire and shoves it in the receptacle to deliberately pop the circuit breaker. He says it is faster than switching the breakers off and on one at a time till you find the right one. That can't be good for the breaker, right? The other Brian. -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Don Gies Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 3:17 PM To: gmccl...@lexmark.com; EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: RE: shorting the mains prohibited - Help Gregory, You should recommend
RE: shorting the mains prohibited - Help
You are referring to a Shunt Trip circuit breaker. These circuit breakers have an additional mechanism that will trip the actuator. The shunt trip mechanism is activated by a switch closure. It does not degrade the normal trip mechanism or contacts of the circuit breaker. The shunt trip circuit breakers are a preferred method for remotely triggering a circuit breaker. It is much safer than shorting the phases. The red buttons are commonly known as Emergency Power Off (EPO) buttons and they are required by many electrical codes for specified applications. They are typically used where there are life safety issues. It allows you to shut down all of the equipment in an area making it safe for emergency responders. If you were a fireman, would you want to enter a room with hazardous voltages and hazardous moving machinery? Many people hate the EPO buttons because they provide a single point of failure. An accidental activation of the EPO can shut down your equipment, which can be expensive for large manufacturing facilities or computer data centers. In these cases, you want an EPO that is designed to be easy to activate in an emergency and hard to activate by accident. Manufacturing locations typically use a version that shuts down just one piece of machinery, known as an Emergency Stop, or E-Stop button. These buttons need to be located such that the operator can easily reach them, especially if the operator becomes entangled in the machinery. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion Corporation The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC nor representing APC's official position on any matter. Kunde, Brian brian_kunde@leco tc.comTo Sent by: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 10/05/2006 02:46 RE: shorting the mains prohibited - PMHelp Instead of shorting the AC Mains, have you considered using a breaker with a trip coil? We used one in a product where as a safety measure, if something bad happened, we wanted to cut power to the entire machine. All we had to do is short out a set of contacts which powered up the trip coil to trip the mains breaker and all power was shut down. Going a different way, in my shop class in High School there were these boxes with big red buttons hanging from cords from the ceiling all over the shop. If you pushed any one of the red buttons, the power to the entire shop would go off shutting down all the machines. Someone said that when you pushed the red buttons, that it shorted out the AC and popped the breaker for the entire room. Is that really how that was done? Yet another story from my past. I know an electrician who if he is going to work on a receptacle, he just takes a piece of wire and shoves it in the receptacle to deliberately pop the circuit breaker. He says it is faster than switching the breakers off and on one at a time till you find the right one. That can't be good for the breaker, right? The other Brian. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Don Gies Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 3:17 PM To: gmccl...@lexmark.com; EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: RE: shorting the mains prohibited - Help Gregory, You should recommend thermal overtemp cutouts in each power lead (if AC mains) that open upon overtemp rather than closing upon overtemp, with reference to IEC 60950-1, Clause 4.3.7 (Heating elements in earthed equipment). Shorting the mains is probably going to annoy someone, if not your safety certification engineer. We once did have a small dc secondary heater circuit with an overtemp device that closed upon overtemp. Doing so shorted out the dc supply, thereby opening a 7 A fuse in front of the overtemp device. I don't remember exactly the reason for this (maybe we couldn't find a Recognized dc thermostat that opened
RE: shorting the mains prohibited - Help
Instead of shorting the AC Mains, have you considered using a breaker with a trip coil? We used one in a product where as a safety measure, if something bad happened, we wanted to cut power to the entire machine. All we had to do is short out a set of contacts which powered up the trip coil to trip the mains breaker and all power was shut down. Going a different way, in my shop class in High School there were these boxes with big red buttons hanging from cords from the ceiling all over the shop. If you pushed any one of the red buttons, the power to the entire shop would go off shutting down all the machines. Someone said that when you pushed the red buttons, that it shorted out the AC and popped the breaker for the entire room. Is that really how that was done? Yet another story from my past. I know an electrician who if he is going to work on a receptacle, he just takes a piece of wire and shoves it in the receptacle to deliberately pop the circuit breaker. He says it is faster than switching the breakers off and on one at a time till you find the right one. That can't be good for the breaker, right? The other Brian. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Don Gies Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 3:17 PM To: gmccl...@lexmark.com; EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: RE: shorting the mains prohibited - Help Gregory, You should recommend thermal overtemp cutouts in each power lead (if AC mains) that open upon overtemp rather than closing upon overtemp, with reference to IEC 60950-1, Clause 4.3.7 (Heating elements in earthed equipment). Shorting the mains is probably going to annoy someone, if not your safety certification engineer. We once did have a small dc secondary heater circuit with an overtemp device that closed upon overtemp. Doing so shorted out the dc supply, thereby opening a 7 A fuse in front of the overtemp device. I don't remember exactly the reason for this (maybe we couldn't find a Recognized dc thermostat that opened), but the design was OK'ed by our NRTL engineer. Regards, Don Gies, N.C.E Senior Product Compliance Engineer Lucent Technologies Holmdel, NJ 07733 USA From: Gregory H. McClure [mailto:gmccl...@lexmark.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:25 PM To: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: shorting the mains prohibited - Help Gentlemen, I need your collective memory. I have an engineer that wishes to design a protection mechanism to apply a short circuit across the mains in order to open a protection device upstream to stop an over-heating fault. The protection device would be in the product, we are not talking about depending on the protection in the service panel. I will not let them go there. I remember somewhere in the past that one of the standards, or perhaps a country deviation, specifically forbid shorting the mains as a means of protection but I cannot find it. I think it is from the era when we were using IEC 380 or 435 and UL 478 but I am not sure. Can someone out there point me to the standard and clause? or perhaps the deviation or an OSM decision? I am looking for all of the arguments against this practice I can pull together because I do not feel it is sound. It is one thing to crowbar the output of a power supply to protect an expensive logic board from a power supply over-voltage failure. It is quite another to short the mains input. Many thanks, Gregory H. McClure Lexmark Product Safety 859 232 3240 office 859 232 6882 fax Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachment, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender, by e-mail, and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike
