Re: [Evangelism] Bad result for Plone at Europython
> You are right. With the new German Plone brochure â did you get some in > Sorrento? â we cover exactly the target group "business" and "simply > mortals" interested in content management â Yes, we did get some here. They are AMAZING! Really, really good job. Now we need to start on translations ;) > But! We constantly need to attract new developers as well. And not only > new developers but new young developers with cool ideas, full of > enthusiasm and the spirit to try out new things. > > If we don't get them, maturity will be the last state before decay. This is very true. However I think what we were saying last night was that the word 'Plone' (or 'zope') has been around for a while now, and so is (I think) perceived by some to be not that exciting. If we want to attract more developers then I think we need to focus on a slightly different tactic. Maybe showing some of the new cool technologies coming up, or focus on the community itself I mean who *wouldn't* want to be sat here on a nice warm evening in Sorrento sipping whisky with such an amazing bunch of people ;) -Matt ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Bad result for Plone at Europython
> Indeed, great mail Matt.
>
> I've a similar feeling on other free software conventions and sometimes
> i think that, as a floss project evolves and matures it has to move from
> python/floss conventions to business one or those oriented to simply
> mortals and not for geek.
That is good timing... we were just discussing exactly that, here in
Sorrento about 5 minutes ago. We even discussed examples of particularly
'exciting' Plone technologies, such as Diazo... which even then would
probabaly not be exciting to europython-type conferences ('XSLT? what's
new?... that has existed for a decade already'). However if you were to
show the power of it to a business conference, or a general web
developer/designer conference, then it would be exciting as it puts this
technology within the reach of these mere mortals.
-Matt
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Re: [Evangelism] Bad result for Plone at Europython
On 20 Apr 2011, at 08:24, Jan Ulrich Hasecke wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 20.04.11 09:19, Maurizio Delmonte wrote: > ears >> >> Also, I register a very low pull on pylons + pyramid (just 127 of > 158), so, >> what kind of people has voted this set of sessions? > > Hard to say, but I saw some tweets and facebook entries with "please > vote for my talk" though not for the Plone talk. > > If there is no interest in Plone in the Python Community, then there is > also not much interest in the Europython in the Plone Community. Maybe > the drawback of having its own conference? This is an interesting thought. I personally have submitted talks to Europython the past few years, and either myself or colleagues have done Plone talks there. This year I'm going to Plone Conf in San Francisco, Plone Open Gardens in Sorrento, and the Plone Symposium East in the US. I didn't even have time to *think* about Europython... to be honest it was only two or three weeks ago I found out where it was even being held. Historically Plone has had poor reception at Europython. I think this is mainly because it is not the 'cool new thing'. I mean, it is a bit boring really... we have been around a while, we have solved all the hard problems, we have a great community and we did NoSQL 10 years ago. The Plone community just get on and do things. An interesting example is that two years ago there were *loads* of talks about Django on the agenda. The following year, just one. I guess it was the new big thing then I guess people realised it wasn't that exciting, or that it didn't solve the problems they wanted to and was over-hyped. This year there are a few, but pretty much all are of something called GeoDjango, which I guess is to do with GIS. Remember we used to have a *whole track* dedicated to Zope at Europython in the old days, then it became a 'web frameworks' track and then it disappeared completely. I think if we want to get some more exposure at Europython then maybe we need to be extolling the virtues of some of the technology we have that is not just Plone specific, e.g. Diazo, Transmogrifier, buildout, etc. *If* I go to Europython this year, and hoping to do the Lightning talk that I didn't get to do last year, which was 'From python to Plone in 3 minutes' in which I will do a live demo of going from a plain python 2.6 install to Plone 4 up and running in 3 minutes. Just to show how easy it is to get into Plone. I still think a lot of people are wary of Zope/Plone as it still has a bad reputation from before when it was a big monolithic thing you had to swallow whole. I'm hoping that Pyramid goes some way to helping alleviate these fears as it is taking a lot of the technology we know and trust and putting it in front of a new audience. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Upcoming Plone events
Hi all, After all the rush of events with the Plone Conference, Plone Symposium South America and the Neoplata Sprint, we now find ourselves in a state of having *no* events listed on plone.org! If anyone knows of any upcoming events, please can they add them. I've just added an expo we are going to this week. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Plone Conference press release
Hi all, I've just written the following press release for Plone Conf (heavily influenced by the PyCon NZ one, possibly written by Tim Knapp ;) ). If any of you are able to put this out to any news channels you know of, or to translate it and put it out to localised media that would be great! -Matt Plone Conference 2010 Talks Announced September 27th, 2010 Over 400 attendees are set to meet at the 8th annual Plone Conference for a week-long programme of training, talks and developer sprints from the 25th to 31st October at the Thistle Grand Hotel in Bristol, UK. Plone Conference 2010 registrations are open. Plone, an Open Source Content Management System used throughout the world has a massive following and Plone events are held around the globe. The largest of these is the annual Plone Conference and this year will be held in the UK. Plone is used for developing websites, intranet and portals for corporations, NGOs and the public sector. Organised by Netsight Internet Solutions, it promises to bring together developers, designers, end users and business people. This year an additional event is being planned as a one-day mini-conference on the 26th October called "Plone in Business" which will be aimed specifically at analysts, advisors, evaluators and information professionals looking to find out more about Plone and see a showcase of successful Plone projects from across the sectors. It will also see the launch of the JBoye Plone Community of Practice. The main part of the conference, from the 27th - 29th October, has over 50 scheduled talks from speakers from 19 countries and includes an 'unconference' day in which talks will be proposed by the attendees. Plone Conference 2010 scheduled talks include: * Easier and faster Plone theming with Deliverance * Design and Development with Dexterity * Enterprise Search in Plone with Solr * Boosting productivity with "Plone-driven Plone development" * Brasil.gov.br: Building a digital nation with Plone Alan Runyan, co-founder of Plone and president of Enfold Systems along with Alex Limi, fellow co-founder of Plone and now Firefox User Experience Lead at Mozilla will be delivering a keynote. There will also be a guest keynote by Richard Noble, OBE, project director of the Bloodhound SSC project attempting be build a car to pass the 1,000mph land speed mark. The conference falls at a great time, with the recent release of Plone 4, a product that raises the bar in the Content Management System market with a faster, more user-friendly and more refined version of the product. So far, registrations for the conference have come from over 30 countries around the world. To find out more about the conference and to register, visit http://ploneconf2010.org. -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Plone Conference 2010 Talks Voting Open!
Hi All, We had a slight delay with the talks being collated, but I can now annouce that the voting is now open: http://www.ploneconf2010.org/the-event/talks Once again, we have some amazing sounding talks this year. e.g. 'Developing Plone Applications to Manage Bioterrorism Risk' --wow! This year we have decided to open up the talk selection process to the wider community. Alas, we don't quite have enough room in the schedule to fit all of them, so we need your help in deciding which talks will be accepted. It will also help us schedule to talks to try and reduce the number of conflicts between very popular sessions. Please register your vote against the talks you wish to see at the conference. You can vote on as many talks as you wish. The deadline for voting on the talks is Friday, 17th September. Speakers will be notified by Monday, 21st September. Thanks, Matt & The Plone Conference 2010 Team -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Ireland 2010
On 27 Jul 2010, at 15:14, Dylan Jay wrote: > > On 27/07/2010, at 7:41 PM, kevin gill wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I did a broad Plone talk for PyCon Ireland 2010. It was well attended >> (30+) (due to scheduling issues - it was the only talk on). >> >> I had three people with projects who expressed an interest in Plone. >> Two >> of the projects were currently in other CMS's and were experiencing >> internationalisation problems (django CMS or something similar and >> drupal). The third project was a trivial web-site project - the >> problem is >> getting cheap hosting rather than whether it can be done in Plone. >> >> The biggest stumbling block in the talk was explaining what a CMS is >> rather than what Plone is. The Python programmers did not get it. > > I gave Plone talk at pycon australia recently called "Plone for python > programmers" and really tried to focus on that issue of CMS vs web > framework. It seemed to go down well. I also concentrated on simple > ways to get started and explaining the reasons behind the architecture. > It's on video if you want to take a look > > http://pyconau.blip.tv/file/3841055/ Cool! One lightning talk I was going to give at Europython, but ran out of time was showing how quick and easy it is to install Plone for python developers. I recorded it as a screencast and showing how you can go from just plain python2.6 install to an up and running Plone 4 install in under 3 minutes! http://www.screencast.com/users/MattJHamilton/folders/Jing/media/596b71e3-edb2-4150-976a-fb7c746690b7 -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Plone 3 for Multimedia on Slashdot
http://books.slashdot.org/story/10/07/26/1243211/Plone-3-Multimedia I've already commented a few times, if anyone else want to put some mod points in there, or comment, then would be good. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Plone at Europython
Hi All, I've managed to secure us a table/booth at Europython again this year. Its being held in Birmingham, UK next month. (www.europython.eu for all details). Anyone else interested in helping out with some promotion/evangalism? I'm going to be pushing the Plone Conference there (being in the same country it should be a good way to reach non-Plone python people). If anyone here has any good ideas for demo'ing Plone to python developers (eg. from the various pycon's) then I'd be interested to hear. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] PyCon Ireland -
On 17 May 2010, at 11:31, kevin gill wrote: > We are running a Python Conference in Ireland on 17th July 2010. It is a > one day conference (Saturday) followed by One day of sprints (Sunday). > > Is anyone interested in giving a talk on Plone (or any python related > subject)? > > If nobody is interested/available, I will do a talk on Plone 4, but it > would be better if someone with more credibility made a presentation. I would love to, but alas I have a wedding to do to on that day. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Numbers
Well plone.net currently says 334 providers in 61 countries, so it has gone up a bit. As for core developers... I presume they mean there those with commit rights... I'm not sure, someone else with access to plone.org would have to get that data. -Matt On 24 Mar 2010, at 13:36, Jan Ulrich Hasecke wrote: Hi all, we want to make T-Shirts and print on the back a short version of the big text of plone.org """ Plone is among the top 2% of all open source projects worldwide, with 200 core developers and more than 300 solution providers in 57 countries. The project has been actively developed since 2001, is available in more than 40 languages, and has the best security track record of any major CMS. """ Are the numbers correct or did they change? juh DZUG e.V. ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Django Advent - Welcome to Django-Advent (Feb 8, 2010)
Quite a nice idea here for upcoming Django release: http://djangoadvent.com/1.2/welcome-django-advent/ -Matt ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Plone is three kinds of flexibile.
On 21 Dec 2009, at 00:56, Dylan Jay wrote: Had a customer presentation on Friday and we gave a new pitch on what Plone's key competitive advantages are (in this case for intranets). Thought I'd share it in case it's helpful to others. Following from Matt's recent "flexibility" ads we said Plone's uniqueness is flexibility in three different dimensions making the its flexibility greater than the sum of its parts. Flexibility makes Plone a kind of intranet construction kit where the "elevator goes all the way up". 1. Theme and branding - because it's a "web" content management system that gets used for public sites 2. Workflow, permissions and hierarchy - because of it's "smart file system" data model. Ability to delegate responsibility in different ways. 3. Functionality and plugins. - because of viewlets, portlets, content rules, content types, ZTK etc - allow third party functionality that slips nicely into Plone's UI. Plone's equivalent of the app store - 3000 plugins. Open source is I guess another dimension to the flexibility but we didn't really go into that as much, e.g. no license restrictions to encumber roll out. Dylan, That is a fantastic set of points there. I really like it. Keeps away from any technical / philosophical issues and just focusses on benefits in a way that no other system could really touch. Do you happen to have your slides available from your presentation? -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Austin fiasco
Mark, What is the best way of us handling this? That article makes some harsh comments about Plone. If Plone were some large corporate I would imagine that lawyers would be swinging into action now. Do we want to publish some kind of official statement in response? Or privately contact that newspaper and ask them to retract their comment. It is a quote though so I don't know legal standing. Or do we just keep our head down and not draw attention to it? http://www.statesman.com/news/texas/local-firm-to-start-city-web-site-redesign-129437.html -Matt ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Govt Tender and JCR standard
Hi All, I've got a govt tender in front of me which is mandating: 1. Portal supporting full JSR 170 and a roadmap to support JSR 283 Content Repository API 2. WCM supporting JSR 168 and JSR 286. Which effectively mandates a Java solution. One other company has asked 'Will you still consider a CMS solution which is not Java based?' to which their (rather lame) reply was 'We have an open mind and will consider all responses equally'. Has anyone here managed to come up with a good bit of text which suitably answers their question? Something along the lines of 'Plone does not support JSR standards as it is not a Java CMS, but we do support equivalent standards such as....'? -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Open Source Is Trending Towards Customer Obscurity
A really interesting piece on Open Source. From the shows we go to, I can already start to see this a bit and I think that we might want to bear the points in the article in mind with future plone.org/.net/etc work. http://blogs.gartner.com/brian_prentice/2009/12/09/open-source-is-trending-towards-customer-obscurity/ -Matt ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] 8 Things You Should Know About Open Source ECM
A good list of points here by Nuxeo: http://aiim.typepad.com/aiim_blog/2009/12/8-things-that-you-should-know-about-open-source-ecm-.html -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Fwd: 2010 Content Technology Vendor Map
On 9 Dec 2009, at 10:57, Tim Knapp wrote: While surfing around today I found this video on YouTube that explains ECM in 'laymans' terms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-DmGNX0ohM And as you say Dylan, it does appear to include 'capturing' documents as one ECM feature. Well that video would be my definition of Document Management. I guess DM is part of ECM and maybe they mean ECM as an umbrella term for all CM in an enterprise. But then most vendors distinguish between ECM and WCM. Hrm. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Strategy focus decisions - Plone-the- product vs. Plone-the-platform – Discovering a blog entry by Paul Everitt from 2008
On 30 Nov 2009, at 09:18 PM, Dylan Jay wrote: These are awesome points. I think unique and challenging reality is that plone is both product and a platform but we've been trying market both through the same channels which is why the message has sometimes been confusing. Eg we say plone is easy to install but in reality only in drvrloment mode not production mode so that is really a platfom message not a product message. Drupal delivers drupal the product message via it's dot com site and it's platform message via it's dot org site. I am also thinking we are better off concentrating on selling plone as a platform. Not just because we need more develepers and integrators to gain greater momentum but recently I've been discovering plone doest sell well as a product. If someone comes to us (as PretaWeb) and says A) we need a website that can blah blah then plone is easy to sell. If a customer comes to us and says B) we're considering to purchase plone as a cms or intranet it's a really hard sell. This is even though we sell training and support and that both solutions would need to be equally customized. Why? People picking products tend to pick product companies. Makes them more comfortable. They feel like they can sue them and that will act more to help them to protect the reputation of the product etc. Plone has no product company. I guess this is why open source works better for platforms than products. I'm at a show so only a brief reply now, but just say that CMS Watch recently recategorised their vendor listings and now split by platform vs product and by size. IIRC Plone is in the Mid-range Platform category. Along with Drupal and Typo3. Alfresco is in Upper-range platform. Joomla and Terminal4 are in Simpler Products. The CMS Watch stand is near us at the show I'll try and get some feedback on their views as to what went into categorising them. -Matt ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Hack Plone! Win a Mac!
On 29 Nov 2009, at 09:31, Jan Ulrich Hasecke wrote: Am 28.11.2009 um 20:38 schrieb Mark A Corum: +1 on a legitimate slogan like "Secure by Design" or something else that reflects the fact. Although I'd like such a claim, please keep in mind that we need it translated. English claims are often misunderstood in Germany as recent studies showed. OK, well I'm not sure what the appropriate German translation of something like that would be, but like I said the intention is to get across that Plone has a number of specific architectural and design choices that make it very secure. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Fwd: [Evangelism] Hack Plone! Win a Mac!
Forgot to reply all... Begin forwarded message: From: Matt Hamilton Date: 28 November 2009 02:55:36 PM GMT To: ctxlken Subject: Re: [Evangelism] Hack Plone! Win a Mac! Mark A Corum wrote: If Plone had previously been weak on security, and had gotten its act together, this might make sense. But in reality -- where Plone is a VERY secure system with a long-term record of protecting sites and data -- this kind of circus stunt is not a good idea. A random idea (whilst I'm trying to write some why Plone is good for enterprise copy)... How about we come up with some kind of slogan or something like that 'Secure by Design' or similar. Something that we can then explain relates to the use of a language with good security track record (python) a battle tested platform (Zope) and the use of an OODB rather than a SQL DB. You know the way many products have some kind of marketing made up name for something ie. 'Now with TruColor', or 'Built in SpeedBoost technology' etc... that is what I'm thinking. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Hack Plone! Win a Mac!
On 26 Nov 2009, at 15:09, Norman Fournier wrote: Hello, Worst case scenario. What if we are wrong? Some smart punk hacks the plone and posts the hack or hints somewhere. How many Macs can we afford to give away? How long can we afford to pay lawyers to fight spurious claims in court? A risk analysis should be air-tight before any contest is publicized. Even the smallest give-aways are fraught with legal complications which is why contest legal copy takes so much space on an entry form. For me, I am not liking this idea at all. I think there may be more positive ways for plone to get this message across without exposing the software to a million punk hackers with a goad like both Screw Plone and Win a Mac at the same time! You also might have difficulty getting the site hosted somewhere. If you can't get to Plone you then try the OS. If you cant get the OS you try the network... etc. For instance, probably the easiest way to get in there would be to do something like a password reset request and try and intercept the email, so you might then find an attack against an email server somewhere else as a result. Quite risky. Hrmm... I wonder what Amazon would say about it? Wonder if you could host it on EC2? You could easily setup a FreeBSD server with Plone running on it. Lock everything else down (ssh via keys only etc). I guess you could privately invite Plone core developers to take a pop at it first, they are likely to know any 'weak' spots if any in Plone itself. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] The State of Drupal
couldn't the 'Plone Foundation' be the organization/vendor rated by the analysts? Let them analyze the staying power of the Foundation, the project, the CMS - that has to be a strength of Plone that we're not capitalizing on enough. I'm not sure that would work since they probably have no economic model with analysing something that doesn't make money. Another alternative is that we could perhaps create a federation of Plone integrators purely for auditing/analysts purposes. If you took all the reasonable sized integration companies and analysed them as a whole you would come out with something that looked like a large multinational company with a pretty big turnover. Or better yet in the proprietary world you have value added reseller networks attached to companies like microsoft or Avaya and I'm sure the analysts have models for valuing those. Plone commercially is essentially a VARs network without the corporation running it in the middle. Unfortunately that would miss the huge amount of value produced by internal integrators such as weblion etc but it would be a start. We need to be careful here as we have already tried this to some degree: ZEA Partners. It is a 'federation of Plone integrators'. The big issue though that was found with ZEA was things like 'How do you divide up the incoming work?'. Ie. if Gartner or someone had ZEA (or analogous organisation) on its list then when a customer contacts them, who do they then hand the work out to? I know some members of ZEA already feel that this was a problem and have voiced their opinions that the only people who got work in ZEA were those 'in the know'. Then again, how fo VAR networks do it in the commercial world? Does each VAR who wants the work pitch independantly to the client? Another alternative to to try to educate analysts that software is no longer about products. Software is now a service. What this means is that you ask for a solution and will get consultants and integrators that will produce solutions from the best technology for the job and often from many technologies. The myth of "off the shelf" systems is just that, a myth. SAP isn't off the shelf and neither is any CMS. Then at least managers would look for large integrators that are suable instead of large product companies. Unfortunately that's completely the other direction on how Plone is currently marketed. It's a product and we're producing feature comparisons as to why Plone is a better product than other CMSes. Plus educating the market is a lot harder than changing ourselves. I think that this is the best, albeit harder approach, but I think the WCM market is heading that way anyways. From following the tweets coming out of the JBoye09 conference it seems like many analysts do understand this, and with the likes of SaaS and hosted solutions I think they are moving that direction anyways. I think the panel discussion at Gilbane should do quite a bit to highlight this hopefully to those that attend. Sorry there's no easy answers. but I'm going to have a discussion with people I know in the big 5 and find out more about what we can do? Well actually that is another approach... partnering with one of the big 5 or similar. Many years ago I had a meeting at Delliote with someone about Netsight being the implementer of something they were working on. Alas it didn't come to fruition and interestingly that person left and is now head of a company specificlly dealing in Alfresco and RabbitMQ work. Another idea that I had this morning, which I think could be really good: an 'Analyst Day' at the Plone Conference. Say we took one day, maybe a day immediately preceding the conference (when training is happening in parallel) and invite all the analysts we can find, and customers etc (basically anyone in a suit ;) ) along to come and find out about Plone. The day would just have a single track and would be a mix of 'big picture' roadmap type stuff specifically tailored to them (ie benefits, not tech details) and some case studies. There were some fantastic case studies in Budapest, and if we could ask the presenters to come along a day early and present their case studies then (with a slight focus towards analysts) then of course present them again later in the conference proper for the community (with all the technical guts etc). What do you think? -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Board] Re: [Evangelism] The State of Drupal
Scott, Can I please ask you to try and record the audio of the panel discussion. Even if they are doing an official recording, it would be good to get a copy just recorded from laptop/iPhone. -Matt On 23 Nov 2009, at 07:39 PM, Scott Paley wrote: This is very helpful - thanks! One can cite that the Royal Bank of Scotland, FBI, CIA and NASA are using Plone, and Plone is on the list of approved and secure platforms for use at NASA. I know one of the questions that will come up is examples of sites where the platform is used in the enterprise, govenment, or major educational settings. Basically, what are the "major wins" for Plone in those 3 areas in 2009? Other topics that will likely come up on the panel: Shoot down common misconceptions about open source in general Discussion of the "single company model" (Alfresco) vs. the "democratic foundation model" (Plone) vs. hybrid (Drupal) and the differences between community and company driven projects How does an enterprise properly evaluate open source platforms? How is that evaluation different than with proprietary systems? General compliance issues Plone's approach to workflow vs. the other platforms Why and when should companies contribute back to the project? What's the value? Examples. Standards such as CMIS and RDF, why they're important, and when are they not really important. On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Nate Aune wrote: I've been putting together a "10 Things that make Plone a good choice for the enterprise" factsheet, and have come up with the following talking points. Many of these echo the excellent ones that Ken already posted in his email. 1) Security Since Plone is built on top of Zope and Zope uses a security model similar to Unix, the security and permissioning can be very granular. Since Zope uses the ZODB, you don't have to worry about SQL injection exploits. One can cite that the Royal Bank of Scotland, FBI, CIA and NASA are using Plone, and Plone is on the list of approved and secure platforms for use at NASA. There are the CVE graphs from the IBM report comparing Plone security track record to other CMSes and frameworks. http://www-935.ibm.com/services/us/iss/xforce/midyearreport/xforce-midyear-report-2008.pdf The "Hardening Plone" howto on Plone.org is an excellent document about how to lock down Plone even more for highly secure environments. http://plone.org/documentation/how-to/securing-plone And the accompanying talk from the recent Plone conference which was a use case of a high-security Plone solution, which was audited and approved for handling sensitive data from a multi-billion industry. http://www.slideshare.net/khink/hardening-plone-a-militarystrength-cms Zope is very secure http://zope2.zope.org/about-zope-2/six-reasons-for-using-zope/zope-is-secure 2) Scalability At the recent Plone conference, we heard case studies about sites that have millions of page views per day and hundreds/thousands of users logging into the site. I'd like to collect these case studies (perhaps on plone.net?), so when potential customers ask for real data, we can produce reports that show Plone can scale. Since it's built on top of Zope, Plone has built-in load distribution using ZEO (Zope Enterprise Objects) http://zope2.zope.org/about-zope-2/six-reasons-for-using-zope/zope-is-highly-scalable With Plone 4, we get plone.app.blob which stores large files on the file system. Even Sharepoint can't do this OOTB without an expensive add-on product. Plone has built-in caching and with CacheFu, we can send purge requests to an upstream caching proxy such as Squid or Varnish. Load tests can be written easily with Funkload to test before and after performance optimizations using collective.funkbot. http://pypi.python.org/pypi/collective.funkbot With RelStorage, you can use Plone with any RDBMS including MySQL, PostgreSQL and Oracle and take advantage of these database clustering and redundancy capabilities. See Shane Hathaway's recent blog post about performance improvements when using RelStorage. http://shane.willowrise.com/archives/relstorage-1-4-0b1-and-zodbshootout/ 3) Interoperability Since it's written in Python, Plone can talk to just about any backend system, from relational databases to authentication services to web services, and can be integrated with 3rd party search engines. The Salesforce.com integration is the best of any open source tool available today. David Glick from GroundWire gave a good overview at the PloneConf. http://www.slideshare.net/davisagli/integrating-plone-with-ecommerce-and-relationship-management-a-case-study-in-plone-getpaid-and-salesforcecom Because Plone ships with PlonePAS - pluggable authentication service, it can authenticate users against Active Directory, LDAP, OpenID, SQL or even Gmail. Plone's built-in search tool can be easily replaced with the open source Solr search tool which provides faceted search and enterprise level search capabilities. Andi Zeidler
Re: [Evangelism] The State of Drupal
ontent hierarchy still requires intimate knowledge of how Drupal works (or add on modules that organize portions of the tree). The ideal Drupal install is probably either small enough that a single site admin is not a bottleneck, or large enough that several site admins can be well trained. 4) Permissions and roles are still pretty much global, and workflow is rudimentary. No ACLs. The organic groups module remedies some of that, but there was skepticism about whether or not it could be ported to 7. 5) The CCK (content creation kit) is now pretty much integrated into 7, and is really pretty cool in its ability to allow site admins to add fields to content types TTW. On the other hand, they don't have a round trip story, and I heard a couple of conversations, that translated to Plone-speak, amounted to "we need something like generic setup to handle repeatable deployments." 6) Real-life Drupal is actually very resource intensive. The audience was told that they could do something like a blog on a cheapo host, but that a real deployment with multiple content authors would require a dedicated server or large virtual slice. 7) They are still, out-of-the-box, a great blogging platform, and if you're using Drupal as a "news to the home page site" with a few static pages, it's easy and fast to configure. 8) The party line on Acquia is that what's good for Acquia and Dries is good for Drupal. I saw not a hint of discomfort with that. 9) A somewhat contradictory pair of party lines: "it's easy to find PHP programmers, and they're inexpensive, therefore PHP is the place to be" and "Don't even think of using a PHP programmer with less than 3 years Drupal experience to do any customization." 10) Taxonomy was "never meant to provide site structure" and is now deprecated as a way to build nav trees. The "right" way to do it is with the new relations fields, which allow you to pick nodes as parents/children. ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism -- Scott Paley | ABSTRACT EDGE Office: 212.352.9311 Direct: 212.352.1470 Fax: 212.352.9498 Website: http://www.abstractedge.com Blog: http://www.brandinteractivism.com ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] The State of Drupal
On 23 Nov 2009, at 08:07, Dylan Jay wrote: All great points, and agree with you... one point specifically I have been noticing recently... 8) The party line on Acquia is that what's good for Acquia and Dries is good for Drupal. I saw not a hint of discomfort with that. I think this is one of the most important points. Maybe it won't last, and maybe the community will suffer long term by Acquia making lots of money? Maybe Drupal will end up being vendor opensource with all its downsides? Who knows. In the medium term, as an Plone development company, I think Acquia gives Drupal an unfair advantage. Just the other day we had a very large organisation say they went with a proprietary solution because "we can't sue Plone" and decided this before we could even present to them or explain that opensource means you can purchase a plone solution from an integrator and then sue them if it goes wrong. We have liability insurance :) Acquia gives Drupal the perception of size and credibility to those who don't know any better. We can dismiss these risk adverse decision makers of big organisations but I think those people matter. I agree with Dries when he says "We should all agree that at the end of the day, success should be measured by the number of people working with Drupal, not by the number of people working on Drupal". Plone kicks Drupal and a lot of proprietary CMS butt, feature for feature but Acquia makes Drupal easier to sell by giving the perception of security. Anything we can do to help sell plone is good for plone otherwise we risk being "irrelevant". ... Acquia have shown up on a few 'Magic Quadrant' type lists from Analysts. Not Drupal, but Acquia. Now Plone is not listed there at all as it is just an Open Source 'project' and not a 'vendor' in the traditional analyst sense. That said I think that is an advantage ;) but I'm sure potential buyeers might not. Someone recently pointed out that the role of most Gartner-type analysts is not to comment on the suitablity of the CMS to your particular organisation, but to just comment on whether the vendor is going to be around next year or not. Hence why 'Plone' is not on those lists as it is not a 'vendor', but it does make me think we do lose out a bit on mindshare as a result. Its a tough one as I agree what you say about Acquia making Drupal easier to sell but on the other hand I don't want to ever end up with a 'Plone Acquia'. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Who's interested in a 2009:Plone Marketing Meeting?
Mark, Karl, I'll ensure there is a slot for this on the open spaces day and will see it we can get a skype call going during for remote participation. I'm very interested in this myself. Also, we (Netsight) are in the process of designing a new Plone brochure that we want to open source and get feedback from the community, so if there is anyone at the conference also interested in this let me know (Jean-Paul, Nate: I've already got you guys in my sights as I know you've both produced good materials, and Nate this could be good for Gilbane conf too) -Matt On 27 Oct 2009, at 05:06 AM, Mark Corum wrote: Francesco, Though my travel and work schedule did not allow me to attend the conference, I would be interested in attending remotely if something comes of this , regardless of time zones. We're in the process of a complete reboot of our marketing efforts, and now that the board has approved our marketing plan and resources to drive the plan forward, I think you will be happy with where we are going. I've been asked by the board to lead the effort - but in marketing that means I need to be the one spending the most time listening, not talking. I would love to hear the ideas the group comes up with so we can make sure our goals are the right ones and methods ones you approve. Mark Sent from my iPhone On Oct 26, 2009, at 11:00 AM, Francesco Ciriaci wrote: Please raise your hand :) There are several missed opportunities and several mistakes to be tackled by the Plone Marketing group; we could cheerfully meet during the conference, right? Examples: the rise of Wordpress (yes, in corporate sites also), Drupal state of the art, Sympony CMS rise, Plone.org and Plone.net visual design, Plone UI: can we wait for Plone 5, and many more :-P All above related to "sellability" not tech/development. Sorry for the crosspost, cheers, Francesco. -- Francesco Ciriaci Managing Director, Web Architect Reflab - design, development and consulting phone +39 050 754193 - mobile +39 333 4284675 skype: fciriaci - http://twitter.com/fciriaci ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] ICOS09 CMS Event
Hi All, Just saw this over the twittersphere ;) Would be great to try and find out more about what is happening in Japan/Taiwan. wiki: http://www.slat.org/wiki/index.php/ICOS09_CMS_Event slides: http://www.slideshare.net/charlesc/01-2-charles-npo-20090925 really nice video of the event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr0dtlmwAFo I don't speak either Japanese or Mandarin/Hokkien so no idea who 'won'! -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Article: Is Plone a Good CMS
On 10 Aug 2009, at 07:08, Takeshi Yamamoto wrote: This page could be helpful to make a comparison sheet. http://www.cmsmatrix.org/ Click the check boxes of Plone and few more CMS, then press Compare button. Anyone know who is the account holder for this site? The info is quite out of date now and needs updating (maybe wait until 3.3 release then update it). -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Wpd 09 post event PR
On 5 Aug 2009, at 08:34, Roberto Allende wrote: Hello Thanks to the job done by Chiara Latini and Vicenzo Varone from Abstract, we've a WPD 2009 post-event Press Release. Before publishing it, i would like to ask for feedback: http://tinyurl.com/wpd09-pr Any comment is very welcome. The English needs quite a bit of work, I'm afraid :( I don't have the time today to go over it, but I'm hoping someone else can take a look and try and re-work it. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Access to stats from plone.net
David, There is a discussion I'm having on the evangalism list: http://lists.plone.org/pipermail/evangelism/2009-August/000858.html Talking about Plone Consulting company size. I know I have talked to you before about stats and a 'census' of some kind. Would it be possible (and I've cc'd the board in, in case they have any objections) to get an export (csv or something) of the confidential stats on plone.net for providers e.g. number of employees, annual revenue, full-time plone, and size of company. This can be completely anonymous, I don't need the company name at all. I think it would be just good to get an idea of some numbers to work out how big the companies are listed on plone.net and the spread of company size/ turnover etc. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Article: Is Plone a Good CMS
On 4 Aug 2009, at 08:21, Dylan Jay wrote: I'm not sure where this leaves us, but I think that it is really interesting that plone as a community doesn't know much about its integrators. A survey on all the companies servicing plone would make an excellent talk at the conference... at least for me. Think about it this way. If Plone were a propriatory product, the mother company would know a awful lot about it's value added resellers. The reason is, they are an essential part of creating a successful product. Modern software companies know that enabling your channel partners and resellers to make a successful business means the product gets out there and in more useful ways than the mother company ever could by itself. Plone as a community is as interested in growth as much any propriatory company is. Understanding our who our integrators are could be a valuable first step to increasing it's take up. Right. This was something I talked to Dave Shapiro (and Karl Horek maybe?) about at the last Plone Conf. We were talking about a 'Plone Census' of some kind. Using the details that are in plone.net to start with we were going to call/email around every company listed on plone.net (break it up into sections and divide to a group of volunteers) and 1) prompt each of them to update their details on plone.net. 2) prompt them about sponsorship etc. We were also I think going to try and get some more metrics and information from them. I really think that plone.net could possibly do with some love beforehand, and bring it on brand with the new plone.org. Then maybe do a push to integrators after that. I like the talk idea. What sort of form would you see it having? Would it be a case of a survey done beforehand and then the results announced, discussed etc during the talk? There is going to a un- conference style day as one day of the Plone Conf in which talks will be spontaneously proposed, maybe it could be something you might want to champion there? At the moment I think we are often trying to pitch against the big boys saying our system can do everything they can. But maybe the message that Umbraco is using is 'we are lighter/smaller/quicker/ cheaper etc' than the big boys. I know in reality Plone can/does use both messages. We generally pitch it as an enterprise system for those that want more flexibility. Plone isn't really simple enough for a small web consultancy to pick up for the odd jobs. It's really a full time thing. We also try to sell it into the bigger market because plone plone can compete where others can't... workflow, flexible security, web document management, multisite deployments, so the customers value it more. If you want something to put up a quick brochure ware site then your compete against all teh cheap php coders and it's a waste of plone talent. I agree 100% with this. And I think we pitch it at a similar market to you guys. What I guess I really wanted to get some thoughts on in this thread was the topic that Janus raised in his blog post and email... about Plone consultancy company sizes versus other projects (such as Umbraco). Does size matter? If so, why? Comparing Umbraco's 'certified partner' list there is 15 companies listed, versus over 300 on plone.net. Does the number of companies matter? Umbraco also have a list of 'certified developers' who have undergone some kind of test (10 multiple choice questions from a random pool). They have 150 developers listed there. We have 120 Plone Foundation members. I know we've talked about certification and what it means many times before in the Plone community, and I don't think we ever reached any kind of decision. So... does size matter? -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Article: Is Plone a Good CMS
On 23 Jul 2009, at 09:34, Matt Hamilton wrote: On 21 Jul 2009, at 21:00, Matt Hamilton wrote: Janus Boye just published an article entitled 'Is Plone a Good CMS?' http://www.jboye.com/blogpost/is-plone-a-good-cms/ A fairly even article saying basically 'Danish Govt say Plone is a good CMS, but is it fair that they pick one?' There are some fantastic comments at the bottom of this post now by Martin Aspeli and Ken Wasetis. Great work guys, some nice insights into 'big firm' consulting and how they go about things. In a further development on this, I privately emailed Janus to ask him: "One question to a point slightly raised on your post. You mention that Plone consulting companies are generally quite small. How does this compare to the other Open Source systems you mentioned, ie. Umbraco, Liferay, Typo3? Do they have larger consulting companies?" As I was genuinely interested to see if Plone consulting companies are *really* smaller than others, or if it is just a perception thing. His response as this: "I would say Umbraco has been the most successful in attracting larger consulting companies. I am speculating this may be due to large consultancies with .NET skills using Umbraco as a low-end alternative to commercial systems such as EPiServer and Sitecore. Let me know your thoughts and then I'll write a blog about it." This is a very interesting point. So he is saying that there are some larger companies using other .NET CMSs such as EPiServer and Sitecore, but when that company needs to do something low end they are using Umbraco. So is this a good thing? What does it mean to the Plone community? Are there companies out there that say something like 'We normally use Vignette, but in this smaller case we will use Plone'? At the moment I think we are often trying to pitch against the big boys saying our system can do everything they can. But maybe the message that Umbraco is using is 'we are lighter/smaller/quicker/ cheaper etc' than the big boys. I know in reality Plone can/does use both messages. What are your thoughts? I want to gather them up to send to Janus. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Article: Is Plone a Good CMS
On 21 Jul 2009, at 21:00, Matt Hamilton wrote: Janus Boye just published an article entitled 'Is Plone a Good CMS?' http://www.jboye.com/blogpost/is-plone-a-good-cms/ A fairly even article saying basically 'Danish Govt say Plone is a good CMS, but is it fair that they pick one?' There are some fantastic comments at the bottom of this post now by Martin Aspeli and Ken Wasetis. Great work guys, some nice insights into 'big firm' consulting and how they go about things. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Article: Is Plone a Good CMS
On 22 Jul 2009, at 01:37, Dylan Jay wrote: On 22/07/2009, at 6:00 AM, Matt Hamilton wrote: Janus Boye just published an article entitled 'Is Plone a Good CMS?' http://www.jboye.com/blogpost/is-plone-a-good-cms/ A fairly even article saying basically 'Danish Govt say Plone is a good CMS, but is it fair that they pick one?' It's a very sticky question which we've recently been dealing with a gov in our country. Probity is very important for governments it seems, or at least ours. We do seem to be making real progress and were thinking of giving a talk at the conference about this subject. You must have come up with similar barriers with your gov work Matt? To be honest, we've not really come across it yet, but we don't do a massive amount of govt. work. What we have done in govt has all been with clients who are already using Plone and need additional help. The UK Govt has recently come out to say that Open Source should be considered in equal terms to Commercial, but AFAIK they don't recommend any one system. There was a project called DOTP - Delivering on The Promise, which was meant to be a single CMS system developed for the government. But uh it failed to deliver on the promise and has been quietly taken out back shot and buried. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Article: Is Plone a Good CMS
Janus Boye just published an article entitled 'Is Plone a Good CMS?' http://www.jboye.com/blogpost/is-plone-a-good-cms/ A fairly even article saying basically 'Danish Govt say Plone is a good CMS, but is it fair that they pick one?' -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] List of conference events
I just found this list of web/tech conferences... might be quite a few on there for the list of conference Plone should be represented at: http://thenextweb.com/2009/06/30/entrepreneur-startup-tech-blogger-techie-list-top-techweb-conferences-attending/ -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Plone and City of Austin
I know very little about this, but know that there was some big contract for City of Austin's website. Looks liek something has changed, but the PR looks a bit odd: http://www.meterthis.net/ http://twitter.com/#search?q=COA They are saying things like: “City is scrapping prior website proposal. Will move to open architecture, customer-focused structure. No more Plone. New bid released soon" Which seems to imply that Plone is not an open architecture. Anyone know more about this? Wasn't it something to do with Cignex? -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Fwd: Top 10 Reasons to Attend Ektron Synergy 2009
84e5ce4695fe78&mailid=a2f3146634424d32baf887e96237120b Powered by SubscriberMail http://www.subscribermail.com 542 Amherst Street | Nashua, New Hampshire 03063 -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Re: Plone Messaging
On 6 May 2009, at 01:44, Ross Patterson wrote: I meant messaging in a sense larger than just marketing. I think we need to better communicate with and educate our communities of consultants, developers, and users regarding subjects other than just marketing and press. For example, what expectations should consultants communicate to technically minded clients about features in the next release? When a sysadmin and sometimes hacker at a non-profit gets excited about Plone and starts advocating for its usage internally, what will she have read that helped her set expectations that will guide her towards success? What will a consultant have read by the time they decide to start taking on Plone jobs to help guide ethical and successful consulting? If any of these people started or joined discussions on IRC, on the mailing lists, or at a conference, will the community members participating in those discussions have encountered enough queues about appropriate messaging? These kind of messages are not largely or exclusively technically, marketing, or user oriented. They require a cohesion of all concerns. Maybe I'm trying to be structural about something that shouldn't be addressed that way. It does seem, however, that this is a significant challenge for our communities. No? I see what you are getting at here. I think one event that does do a lot for this is the Plone Conference keynote by Alan and Alex. Or the 'what coming up in release X' talks that Alex usually does. These generally focus on what is coming up feature-wise and I think do a lot to set expectations of what is coming up. Now I know that Alex is often (and I hope you don't mind me saying this Alex) quite ambitious in his visions for Plone in some of these talks, but I think that is a good thing. How that will now relate to the release manager type role I'm not sure. Ie. I think Hanno would be in a much better position to say what is or isn't upcoming. But I think Alex does a very good spokesperson (dare I say BDFL?) type role. Alex is doing something at the Plone Symposium East for this: http://weblion.psu.edu/news/alexander-limi-to-open-plone-symposium-east-2009 I think this is a great avenue for communicating the message to the community on where Plone is going. As for how we can do more of this and a more cohesive message across other mediums and forums... good question ;) -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Re: Sharepoint vs. Plone
On 5 May 2009, at 01:32, Nate Aune wrote: I had a couple of people come by the stand and look at the brochure, and when I approched them they said 'oh we use microsfot technology...' or 'oh we are going to use sharepoint'. I think the key is to really show users that Plone vs Sharepoint is like Apples vs Oranges. They really are different beasts. I normally start by telling people that they can co-exist together and really serve slightly different functions. The people I showed demos to of Plone at the expo really were blown away by the flexibility of Plone and what can be achieve with it. Yes, it's not fair to compare the two systems because they are fundamentally targeting different use cases, but one cannot deny that Plone's feature set overlaps a lot with what Sharepoint provides, and vice versa. The thing being that in many cases, whilst they target different use cases, I think that Plone *is* a better fit than sharepoint at many things people install sharepoint to do. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Plone at Internet World Expo, London
All, For those that don't already know, we (Netsight) sponsored a Plone booth at a big 3-day expo in London. I was also speaking on a panel debate of Open Source vs Commercial CMS software. It all went pretty well, and a full write-up is on our blog: http://www.netsight.co.uk/blog/2009/5/1/plone-at-internet-world-expo -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Re: World Plone Day followup
On 24 Apr 2009, at 06:11, Mark A Corum wrote: Robert, Limi shared this blog entry with me tonite and I wanted to pass it on. http://www.netsight.co.uk/blog/2009/4/23/world-plone-day-malta Congratulations not only on what sounds like a really effective and fun event - but kudos to Matt Hamilton on writing the kind of interesting and engaging followup to it that defines a successful public event. I hope we see more of these. Thanks :) -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Fwd: [Evangelism] Visual roadmaps for prospective users, integrators and developers (was: How would you position Plone?)
[meant to send back to list] Begin forwarded message: From: Matt Hamilton Date: 21 April 2009 15:24:24 BST To: Graham Perrin Subject: Re: [Evangelism] Visual roadmaps for prospective users, integrators and developers (was: How would you position Plone?) On 21 Apr 2009, at 11:58, Graham Perrin wrote: On the subject of intersecting lines and subway maps: at <http://www.akasig.org/2003/12/11/zope-and-plone-learning-roadmap/> there's a learning-oriented graphic. It's old (2003) but still, I found it very appealing ( http://www.diigo.com/05kox highlights ). Also, (and I'm not sure if this was in Dylan's original email) there is the CMS Watch Vendor Map: http://www.cmswatch.com/vendormap/ It does a great job of showing Plone... the 2008 one I think was slightly better than the 2009 one, but still it is very good. It shows Plone on a lot more lines than any of the other similar products. We use it at Expos and the likes to 'relate' Plone to other systems. People wander around expos and see massive booths of names they have already heard of, when they get to the Plone booth we have something to show them how Plone relates to those other systems. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] opportunity to get a word in on slashdot
On 25 Mar 2009, at 23:30, Jon Stahl wrote: http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/25/2020226&from=rss I've put something on: http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1175723&cid=27339225 -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] CMSWire plone article
http://www.cmswire.com/cms/enterprise-cms/multisite-management-with-drupal-plone-and-joomla-004041.php Good work whomever was responsible for this :) -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Plone vs Joomla vs Wordpress
I just saw this article (currently slashdotted) http://www.playingwithwire.com/2009/03/open-source-and-usability-joomla-vs-wordpress/ cached version: http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:cm0Fw7t4g4wJ:www.playingwithwire.com/2009/03/open-source-and-usability-joomla-vs-wordpress/+http://www.playingwithwire.com/2009/03/open-source-and-usability-joomla-vs-wordpress/&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a And so wrote up how Plone compares in these trivial cases: http://www.netsight.co.uk/blog/2009/3/3/open-source-and-usability:-plone -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Mozilla Community Marketing Guide
On 26 Feb 2009, at 00:42, Alexander Limi wrote: """ The Mozilla Community Marketing Guide is up and running. This is a guide that’s useful for people who want to participate in Mozilla’s community marketing to help spread the love of Firefox and the open web. But I also thought I would post about it as a good framework for other open source projects to build from. There’s a lot of hard-won experience wrapped up in these docs - please use them for your project! http://contribute.mozilla.org/Marketing Fantastic! That looks like a great template we can use to develop our own similar guide. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] UK government backs open source
All, Just seen this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7910110.stm Very interesting as if you read towards the bottom they do seem to be actually finally understanding the benefits of Open Source (not just costs, but the flexibility). I was wondering about putting together some kind or news article, comment, press release, etc to follow this up. It would be great if we could jump on this whilst the iron is hot. Has anyone else produced anything similar, or had similar experiences in their country? -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Plone's Market Share
On 24 Feb 2009, at 22:25, Matt Hamilton wrote: Since Oreilly are big on Open Source... a figure such as 'Plone is in the top 5% of Open Source projects' or some such would be possibly of use. I can't remember if that stat is right, or the source... maybe someone else here can find the actual figure and source. And don't forget the WPD figures as well... 61 venues over 30 countries on 5 continents... pretty impressive. We need to conquer Antartica! -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Plone's Market Share
On 24 Feb 2009, at 21:59, Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote: Hi All, I finally heard back from the Webcast Producer at O'Reilly Media and they need a bit of convincing before they would be willing to move forward with a Plone based version of what they did for Drupal last fall. Basically this is their question: "I'm not unwilling to test the waters, but can you give me an idea of what you would consider the (Plone) market share to be?" Where can I find this type of information so we can put together an argument about why Plone should even get their coverage? I guess its hard to answer exactly what Plone's market share is, as I guess it depends what you define the market as. I mean, Plone won best non-PHP Open Source CMS Award from Packt, so I guess it would be fair to say that it's market share of 'non-php Open Source CMSes' would be pretty large ;) 'What percentage of websites run Plone?' would be a tiny tiny percentage if you are looking at all websites worldwide... then again its probabaly larger than many commercial CMSes out there. These sort of figures are what Karl Horek has been trying to work out on his Plone Metrics blog http://plonemetrics.blogspot.com/ Since Oreilly are big on Open Source... a figure such as 'Plone is in the top 5% of Open Source projects' or some such would be possibly of use. I can't remember if that stat is right, or the source... maybe someone else here can find the actual figure and source. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Re: an opportunity to brag?
On 18 Feb 2009, at 19:27, JoAnna Springsteen wrote: Sent a note to Brice pointing out Lineage for Plone and reminding them that Plone's security is far better and we do great multi-site management. I've also commented as well: """ Take a look as well at Plone for multi-site stuff as it has been doing multi-site deployments for a long time. As an example take a look at what Oxfam did several years ago with a single Plone CMS deploying to several different sites: http://plone.org/events/conferences/seattle-2006/presentations/managing-multiple-plone-sites.pdf """ -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] The Great Backyard Plone Count
On 13 Feb 2009, at 06:29, Karl Horak wrote: There are more details at http://plonemetrics.blogspot.com/ my blog and in a short http://docs.google.com/Presentation?docid=dhc25jrt_50gbm8bgd8&hl=en Google Docs presentation . Your data can be uploaded via a http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?key=py-ZRibpWMZVFrs1hhhE8Yg&hl=en Google Docs form or directly into the http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=py-ZRibpWMZVFrs1hhhE8Yg&hl=en summary spreadsheet . So take a few minutes' break from the binoculars and the birdwatching this weekend to upload a few Plone URLs. Fantastic :) I'll start putting out stuff on there, and pass the form url around to people I know who have deployed Plone sites, but not actively involved in the community... try and get some people we might normally not reach. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Re: Plone marketing- WPD2008 Slide Deck
On 21 Oct 2008, at 05:25, Nate Aune wrote: I know one large non-profit that chose a commercial intranet solution over Plone because the commercial vendor included everything in the pricing, and the product appeared to do more "out-of-the-box" whereas Plone appeared to require a lot of customization to get it to do what the commercial product was offering. We need better marketing materials to show what Plone is capable of providing out-of-the-box, and how it can be easily extended with 3rd party add-on components. Otherwise, we're going to continue to get reamed by these vendors hawking proprietary CMSes. We've had exactly the same thing when pitching before. Its a perception thing. But also if you are flogging a, say, $50K licensing fee you can easily 'bury' a bit of customisation in there which makes it 'seem' more out of the box. -Matt PS. What was the outcome of the plone marketing mailing list? I know it exists, but not had an messages in many months, is it deprecated? -- Matt Hamilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
Re: [Evangelism] Re: Plone statistics
On 21 Oct 2008, at 05:03, JoAnna Springsteen wrote: Who would like to volunteer to make these calls to validate the numbers? At the marketing session at the sprint, we also discussed asking Plone vendors also if they would be willing to be the press contact for their particular country/region/language. So we could kill two birds with one stone when making these phone calls. I could take this on. Lets just figure out exactly what info we need and I can make the calls. Coming up with a script seems cheesy but it'd be easier if we make sure we ask the same exact questions and can record data accordingly. [been out of office yesterday, will respond to other emails today on this] I was chatting to David Shaipro @Pilot at the conference about getting further info from what is on plone.net and yes we thought phone calls would be the best way to validate the info. There are ~200 companies on plone.net. Would also be a good chance to plug the plone.net sponsorship plan too. So maybe we wait until they are in place. Between us 200 people would not be too much of an issue. David's company have French and German covered, we can do English, and if we can get someone to do Spanish then I think that would probabaly cover the vast majority of the list. Just at the end of the sprint we setup an openplans project to co- ordinate this. It is a private group, mainly as we might be discussing sensitive information on here. http://www.openplans.org/projects/plonecensus -Matt -- Matt Hamilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
[Evangelism] Re: Plone marketing- WPD2008 Slide Deck
On 20 Oct 2008, at 01:03, Alexander Limi wrote: On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 8:02 AM, Nate Aune <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:05 PM, Gerry Kirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Indeed, thanks for taking the lead on this Constance. My favourite slide is the $50k one too. :) Yes, this is visually a very powerful way to show the differences between commercially licensed CMSes and customizable open source CMSes. I think it's important however to clarify what we mean by customization, as Matt Hamilton mentioned at the "So you want to be a Plone consultant" panel discussion that when customers see how much money goes towards customization, they assume that the CMS must not have very much out-of-the-box functionality, and therefore needs a lot of customization. Maybe "integration" is better than "customization"? I think integration is a bit more of a loaded word. I can imagine many potential customers saying 'but I don't need any integration!'. I really like the graph, but yes I think we need a way to better show proportions and what you are getting. I think most of us here would agree that with OSS the total cost would be lower, so I'm wondering if we might want to not have 50K for both. The problem then is what *do* we say for both... as we are just showing example indicative costs of some theoretical project -Matt -- Matt Hamilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development & Consulting | Co-location | Hosting ___ Evangelism mailing list Evangelism@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/evangelism
